January 4, 2024 • 65 mins
Join us as we unfold the artist's journey with my dear friend and artist, Jamie Wollrab who’s inspired me personally through his guidance over the years.
For the better part of two decades, Jamie Wollrab has been a multi-faceted coach. In this time, he has worked with some of the most influential people in the entertainment, music, personal development, and wellness communities. Beginning in 2002, his focus lay extensively in the area of performance, acting, and voice.
He holds a BFA in Theatre from Texas Christian University and a Masters Degree in Acting from the Mason Grosse School of the Arts at Rutgers University. Beyond his studies in school, he has also been mentored by world-renowned voice teachers.
In 2014, Jamie began studying with the men’s leadership and embodiment coach, John Wineland, and assisted countless workshops with John in both the area of masculine work as well as relationship and intimacy. Additionally, Jamie co-teaches embodiment workshops geared toward Jungian shadow integration and chakra sound healing.
While his years spent in the world of acting and performance have greatly impacted and influenced him as a teacher, his true passion lies in joining success, artistic fulfillment, and emotional and spiritual health.
We discuss…
-The transformative synergy of artistic collaboration.
- The power of authenticity in our lives. - True success is not just about our achievements but its what resonates with our inner alignment.
- Through the lens of alchemy, we examine the process of personal transformation, embracing the idea that our greatest masterpiece is the canvas of life itself.
- How confronting our personal darkness can lead to a more authentic and powerful creative voice.
- Finally, we open up about the significance of authenticity in the realm of coaching and the importance of facing our emotions, even when they lead us into the dark.
Connect with Jamie here:
https://jamiewollrab.com/the-artists-way/
Pick up a copy of my book Finally Thriving or purchase my audiobook here:
https://geni.us/FinallyThriving
Join my Finally Thriving Group Program waitlist here:
https://www.finallythrivingprogram.com/waitlist
Are you ready to get out of a reactive survival mode and step into your natural state of thriving?
Finally Thriving Audiobook
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Music.
Your life is your greatest workof art and it all relates back
to the synchronicity.
Welcome to Integrate Yourselfeverybody.
I'm your host, alison Pillow,and you can find me on
alisonpillowcom and, finally,thrivingprogramcom.
Today, I'm here with a veryspecial guest, my good friend,
(00:41):
jamie Woolrab.
For the better part of twodecades, jamie has been a
multifaceted coach and this timehe has worked with some of the
most influential people in theentertainment, music, personal
development and wellnesscommunities.
In 2014, jamie began studyingwith the men's leadership and
embodiment coach, john Weinland,and assisted countless
(01:02):
workshops with John in both thearea of masculine work as well
as relationship and intimacy.
Additionally, jamie co-teachesembodiment workshop geared
towards young in shadow,integration and chakra sound
healing.
While his years spent in theworld of acting and performance
have greatly impacted andinfluenced him as a teacher, his
(01:25):
true passion lies in joiningsuccess, artistic fulfillment
and emotional and spiritualhealth.
He is deeply honored andprivileged to bring his entirely
unique set of skills to eachand every client.
His company, jamie WoolrabStudios, produced an
award-winning film, pilgrimagein 2021.
He just directed a steady reignin Santa Fe while acting in the
(01:50):
world premiere of a brother'splay.
He has been teaching actingvoice and men's workshops all
over the world and, jamie, youare a dear friend of mine.
You and I have been workingtogether for years, so I am so
excited you're here and I can'twait to talk about what we're
going to talk about the artist'sjourney, the artist's way.
I'm joining you on.
(02:11):
This will be like probably thefourth year I'm joining the
artist's way group and we'regoing to get more into what
that's about today.
Yeah, it's been incredible, soI would love for you to share
more about that, as well asanything else you'd like to
share about yourself today.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Amazing and thank you so much, and I think this is
our first podcast in a few years.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
It's been a while yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
It's been a while and we've had so many interactions
between them.
God, it's so interesting tolisten to your bio.
Back to you and you're like isthat who I am?
Is that me?
Did I do that?
It's such a trip.
I don't think I've read that orseen that it gets updated here
and there, but I guess that'sthe best way to describe it.
(02:58):
It's sometimes we want to beable to describe what we do
outside, so it would be, tolayman's terms, whatever people
that aren't like in the lack ofa better term cult of, you know,
coaching.
It's like what is it that we do?
And it's when I, you know, Ithink what's something that I
(03:18):
really want to talk about todayand share and hear from you to
is that how we're always notjust being creative, but we're
creating ourselves and we'recreating what we are and what we
do.
And sometimes it's because wehave to look back and like what
have I been doing the last threeyears?
And, okay, I might need a newtitle because I'm actually doing
this.
So I'm, you know, you're anauthor now, a published author.
(03:40):
You know I'm a director now andI'm, you know, moving more into
executive coaching, which isnot because I called myself that
, but because that's really whatI'm doing.
And so I think that our titlesof whatever it is that we are
are constantly changing, unlessyou're a banker and you're a
banker and you've been a bankerand you keep going and being a
(04:01):
banker.
But with us it's like we're onthe cutting edge, like we're
always evolving of what the newand I think that that's what's
so important about being anartist is that we can be
flexible as well in our ownidentity.
Just a trip to hear that backand we're like I know I was
(04:25):
embarrassed and shy and you know, I'm sure your, your bio would
be the same, but I just thinkthat's it's such an interesting
kind of way into theconversation.
It's like you know who are weand that is part of what we're
creating as well.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Absolutely and honestly.
There was more.
There was more of your bio.
I could have read JV.
You have so much experience.
I wanted to just focus in onmore of the coaching part of you
, but you have had so much.
I mean, you're an incredibleperson in the way you have
helped people in the acting, inthe acting realm and on a
(05:06):
personal level with just theirpersonal growth and all kinds of
spiritual growth as well.
So, when it comes to peoplelike you, there's not there's
not very many people who can doall of that.
That's just so much.
And you've helped me as wellwith my creative projects and as
(05:27):
well, you know, your wife hashelped me with the book and we
have a long history together andso, yeah, you've been a huge
inspiration to me.
So, I mean, I've just reallybeen so grateful.
I got to, I got to connect withyou years ago, I think back
like in it was like 2019.
We did a.
(05:48):
I did an acting workshop withyou in New York and that was
really incredible.
You just opened me up to a newpart of me that I didn't even
know existed.
You know it was it was reallymagical.
So you have, like it doesn'tmatter what you call yourself
you're good at.
You are like really talented atwhat you do and how you help
(06:09):
people and you've called it manydifferent things but what
really matters is like thatmagic that you bring to the
table, and you always bringgreat people together as well.
I've noticed that throughoutthe years just really incredible
people, and I've always enjoyedbeing in in that those
communities as well.
(06:30):
So, yeah, yeah, just wanted togive you some praise there.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I, you know, oh, thank you, learning how to
receive and and I've seen youhelp me with training and you've
helped me, I think the peoplethat are the best at what they
do me effortless, and thensometimes, when you get praise
for it, you're like I was justbeing myself and you know being
able to.
(06:58):
I'm actually going to turn onmy off by my focus, and that is
just an extension of who you areas yours, as your healer and as
your you know, your coach andyour directing people and their,
their health and their bodies.
It was.
It was interesting.
I'll speak to one thing.
I directed a play this year thatI was immensely proud of.
(07:18):
It's in the bio but a steadyrain.
We ended up doing it in SantaFe and it was such a success.
We ended up bringing it to LosAngeles and what was, what was
special about it was thatusually in a you know, an
artistic process, like you knowactor, you direct something and
then the show's over and peopleare like, oh my God, you were so
(07:38):
good, but what was?
There was something differentabout this experience, and this
experience was people said, howdid you do that?
Like, how did you do that?
Because it was such animmersive and it was a very
alive experience and I wanted tospeak to the artist and living
(08:00):
a life of an artist and I hadjust in Santa before I went to
Santa Fe, I was in Coloradorunning a men's retreat.
That went very well and and Isaid well because I didn't
direct the play any differentlythan I ran my men's retreat I
did it.
They were very similar.
It was I talked to my internsin the same way I would talk to,
(08:26):
you know, the star actor thatthere was months of preparation,
there was, you know, meditatingon a theme and really it wasn't
just like, hey, let's sit someguys together and do it, like it
was immense amount ofpreparation and while I was
being vulnerable and a Well, ifmistakes happened or
(08:48):
miscommunication happened, Iknew I was the one that was like
I was leading this and I wasdirecting this.
So I was like the buck stopswith me.
Okay, that's my fault that thatdidn't happen, that didn't work
.
And so it was interestingseeing that that the spiritual
path and the start path arereally one in the same.
(09:09):
And I'm not rambling, but I wasreading this amazing book by Gay
Hendricks called um, the SevenSecrets of the Corporate Mystic
and he literally said what I was, what I just said to you, and I
was saying this before I readthe book.
And in the book, in this firstchapter book, he talked about a
CEO of I think it was um,motorola and, uh, the spiritual
(09:33):
teacher.
There's this Buddhistmeditation teacher that he went
on a seven day retreat with andhe said something interesting.
He said he saw that they wereso similar that this, this woman
that was leading thismeditation retreat, and this man
that was like leading thiscompany that was thriving, that
he saw this core principle ofspiritual um integrity there was
(10:00):
, there were synonymous betweenthe two of them.
And that, to me, has just takentime.
And you know, in the work thatyou and I have done together,
it's like how long have you beena trainer?
How long have I been an actingcoach?
How long have I been an actor?
And it's like we're stillgetting better.
Like how long have you been awriter?
It's like we're still sandingthat statue, we're still working
(10:23):
this, and yet it becomes themore we work on it, the more
it's really one thing.
It's really one thing about howit's how we are being is what
then emulates the work and theimpact we have in the world.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, yeah, that's.
That's exactly where I wasgoing with that yeah Is is that
it doesn't matter what you callit, you know you are, you know
you're that energy that you'recreating right, that you're
cultivating every day.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
We all are.
I think we all are.
Exactly, yeah, we all are, don'twe wish politicians would do
the same thing?
It's like, you know, that'swhat's so tricky about that
world, where it's a very strictworld, where it's like, you know
, and I think that's that, to me, is why I'm attracted to these
(11:21):
really authentic souls andpeople who are, who are seeking
that, and so they, you know,they come into our groups
because they're like we knowthere's something that's not
right about outside in the world.
And I don't want to just gettriggered and air on, you know,
facebook and be like can youbelieve this person?
It's like we're going to go.
No, no, no, no.
This is triggering me becausethere's an aspect of this that I
(11:43):
have within myself and I can'tmake it.
I can't make a difference untilI've owned that part of me or I
made a play about it or wrote abook about it, right, and so
then we're, and then that'samazing, it's like then people
read, finally Thriving, or theyjoin the artist's way group and
then they kind of get a taste of, oh, somebody can do this, they
(12:05):
can make.
You know, there was somebodysaid this recently about alchemy
like alchemy, like in their oldhermetic senses, turning iron
into gold, and they thought,like it's not, you know,
chemically possible to do that.
But what they're really talkingabout is the alchemy of us as
beings, is that we're turningour own lead, as of ourselves,
(12:28):
into gold.
We are refining our spirit, ourmind, our body and you know and
you know this as a coach it'slike you want a great life.
It's like you got to eat welland you got to move your body
and you got to get your rest andyou got to speak up and share
your voice about what it is thatyou're trying to, you know
(12:51):
you're wanting to express andthat's out.
That's the alchemy.
And then, all of a sudden, asI've noticed through whether it
was the play or whether it wasthe artist's way or our last
course we did on money is that Ijust saw everyone kind of turn
into gold by working throughthese questions, writing, and
like I saw that the alchemyhappened and then everyone left
(13:15):
in this, like we left thembetter than we found them right,
and so and I don't think thatprocess ever ends I'm just so
grateful to have friends likeyou and a platform like this to
be able to talk about it,because you remind me and affirm
me that it's like no, this isworth it, this matters.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Oh yeah, what we do is these creative.
Sometimes it feels like itdoesn't, doesn't it Right?
Yeah, like.
I've felt like that with myskill set as well, with being a
trainer and you know, justdiscounting the physical aspects
of living, but like it's, youhave to bring those higher
aspects and spirituality intoyour body, into embodiment, so
(13:59):
otherwise, like, you're notgoing to be in a body, right,
like, what's the point of beingin a body if we're not embodying
?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
those higher aspects.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Well, I'll throw one in that even deeper is that even
success won't feel good.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
So you're not embodied in it, you're not
understanding it.
Like there again, another GayHendricks reference of the Big
Leap, which is you'll have anupper limit and we'll sabotage
it, we won't.
We'll be like I didn't earnthis, I screwed somebody over to
get here.
It was nepotism or whatever thethings may be that got that
(14:38):
success.
Inside will know that it's likeit doesn't feel right or it
doesn't feel good, but I believe, like this work, the successes
in that doing, and then if theoutside approval does come again
it's more of an affirmation.
It's like, yeah, no, I really,I really did give my best to
(15:01):
those men on that men's retreatand I really genuinely gave my
best to those, those, thoseartists on that play.
And so when people enjoyed itand it was this and it was a
success, it felt coherent, itfelt like, oh, I can receive it
because that feels true, becauseI really did try and I know I
could have done better in manyof the areas.
(15:22):
But it was like I was up everymorning and meditating and
working out and looking at mypart and like surrounding myself
with people that were trustable, and I was like and then,
what's the?
This is the crazy thing.
Allison is at the end of it yougo I really love my life Because
I'm, because it's it's, it isin the actions that we're taking
(15:48):
in the world, and it's like, ohmy God, I actually believe what
I'm saying and I can stand byit.
And it was like I was sayingthis to you before we got on the
recording.
But it's like you're like, howare you doing?
And I'm like, because I can't.
I'm about to lead a group and Ican't do the things that aren't
(16:10):
the guy that leads the group.
You know I can't go off and youknow, drown in fast food or
something.
If I'm the trainer, I mean wecan, but we'll know we're not
ultimately serving the peoplethat we're going to be serving.
And so there's some days whereyou're like, oh, I have to be
good in, good in my heartbecause I know that I'm the
(16:33):
transmission of what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah, I love the way you say that Absolutely, because
that's called living inintegrity, like if we're, if
we're teaching something, youknow we have to also.
I think, anyway, it's good foryou to experience it as well,
right Before you can reallyteach it.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
So I'm going to pay me for this Right.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I'm not going to be a really good trainer if I don't
take care of my own body?
Right, but there are tradersout there like that, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure I was one of them.
I was a trainer that did thatand I was like I don't have the
fortitude for that, but againit's our own sort of junk food
behaviors.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
You know, as we as artists, it's not about being a
perfectionist, but it's aboutbeing authentic.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yes, authentic is the good word for it.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
I'm so moved about doing the artist's way again
this year with all of you iswhat I'm already feeling the
people that I've already joinedand like Karen is joining this
year and she's assisting me andshe was in the money group and
her enthusiasm of what changedher life during the money group
like you can't buy that kind ofauthenticity.
(17:48):
And now she's likeproselytizing about the artist's
way, which is really cool andI'm like that's success to me.
It's like, oh you, I want tospend more time with you in my
world and you know to get intolike the artist's way.
It's like I and this was Ithink this will be my fourth
year doing it.
Europe part of the first year islike we're constantly creating
(18:11):
our lives and we're creating,you know, whether it's interior,
decorating our home.
I just bought a cabin up inIdle Island and it's like, how
do I want to design that and howam I going to down to the
paintings, down to what I'mcooking, down to, and I'm going
to write.
I'm actually going to write abook about this, this year
(18:31):
called the Art of.
Creative Living, which islooking at all aspects of my
life and going every single ofthe aspects that have cultivated
and that I'm proud of.
It's because I brought anartist way to my approach to it.
Yeah, right Down to how we dressdown to how you know we solve
(18:52):
problems, or relationshipproblems.
It's like, oh, I want to justscream at this person a French
relationship I'm in and I'd loveto just blow up.
But I know that things like aMago dialogue and things like
that, it's like okay, but if I'mcreative in my communication,
we're gonna get better, we'llhave a better result, and I know
(19:13):
that.
I know that, but I still needto be like reminded.
So I know I'm talking a lot, soI'll pass.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Oh no, that's what we're here for.
We're here to hear you talk.
So I wanted to talk a littlebit about the shadow stuff,
because you really taught me alot about shadow.
Let me turn this.
Oh yeah, so, and this is onething I've really been
integrating even more this yearis, you know, cause?
(19:43):
You mentioned the wordperfectionism and for some of us
who are trying to be perfectand fit in, you know, and all
those things, and it's like wehave been pushing those shadows
away, right, it's for years, andthen finally, when we step into
the shadow and we just makepeace with it and acknowledge
that it even exists, then itjust dissipates, right.
(20:05):
I've experienced that in some ofyour working with you really a
lot of some of the workshops andalso some of the one-on-one
work and so, as that relates tocreativity, I've had a question
a while back and the person waslike, well, isn't it good to
have, like, aren't people youknow, creating from their
(20:30):
shadows, like and creating, andisn't that like something that
is inspiring them to create?
And, you know, shouldn't wejust like?
You know what's that I mean?
My answer was that, well, Imean, if you're creating from a
less wounded place and you havemade peace with your shadows,
(20:50):
and if you're, then you're gonnacreate more purely in a sense,
right, so, yes, you can createfrom a wounded place, but what
is your opinion on this, jamie?
In my opinion, it's more.
I think it's going to be a morepure creation, it's gonna be
more authentic, even if it'scoming from a place of health
(21:13):
and healing.
And I don't know what is your-.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
I think I have again as well.
This is always a moving feast.
I think I have my answer for ittoday, which is my.
You know the kind of the thingthat I'm working with myself.
So, because I can get into theshadow and are we gonna work
(21:38):
from a destructive or a creativeplace?
I don't see it as bad or evilor anything like that.
Like am I gonna be a methodactor and really shoot heroin to
play a heroin addict Like it'syou?
Speaker 1 (21:49):
know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, yeah, or am I going to you know, look at it
through a vein of healing, andhow to transmute that.
And just again, I'm using theword alchemy.
But here's my thought.
I'm gonna break this down in away that I think is you know,
(22:10):
for people that don't know whichhow to work is, and I think
it's really simple.
I think in life we know what weknow, right.
So I know you're my friendAllison.
I know that you're a trainer, Iknow that you know I have an
acting degree.
I know that my name is Jamie, Iknow that you know.
There's things that I know thesky is blue and I know what I
(22:30):
know.
And then there's the things Iknow that I don't know, which is
?
I know I don't speak MandarinChinese.
I know that I don't know how todunk a basketball, like there's
things I don't know and I knowthat I don't know it and that's
great.
So there's the things that Iknow, that I know, and there's
the things that I know that Idon't know, and that's all
conscious and that's all great.
I think where we all get intotrouble is that when we don't
(22:54):
know that we don't know Right.
Right, it's like if you everbeen in a fight with somebody
and they're like you're like,stop yelling at me.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
They're like I'm not yelling at you, You're like yes,
you are.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
They really don't think they're yelling and they
don't think that that's whatthey're doing and that's, you
know, your people.
And I think, like this wholeworld, of being gaslit, I think
that that word is completelyabused and overused, other than
some cases, because I think mostpeople just don't know that,
they don't know that they'redoing that Right.
(23:27):
I see, I don't think they knowthat they're like I'm they're
lying, but they don't even knowthat they're lying.
They're just denial.
Ms, I don't even notice I amlying.
Yeah, the shadow work is to meis what is our blind spot?
It's just what we don't know.
It's what we don't know ordon't want to know about
ourselves.
So what the artist way does, orshadow work does because they
(23:50):
kind of get to the same point isthat they help us know what we
don't know, helps us know thatyou know whether we have an
abuse of addiction of some kind,whether a person is toxic for
us, or whether you know ournegative thoughts about
ourselves.
So if we have a negativethought about ourselves, it's
like oh, I'm stupid, god, I'mjust stupid.
(24:11):
But it's kind of like the callscoming from inside the house.
So you and because you know afish doesn't know he's wet, you
just kind of go.
Oh, I just am stupid.
That's just is, that's myreality and I don't know that.
I don't know that that's anarrative that could be changed.
(24:35):
So shadow work is a way to kindof separate that part of me
outside of me and creating acharacter or something.
It's like you're stupid, you'restupid, you're just an idiot.
And then I'm like, and thenI've like distanced myself from
that voice of anthropomorphizethat voice, and then I go, oh my
(24:57):
God, that thing is literallywas like some kind of you know
parasite as part of me, and thenthe more I can separate it and
see it and then talk to it likewhat does it want from me?
Like what do you need?
What's the voice?
And it's you know, it's youknow childhood trauma or it's
(25:17):
these negative beliefs thathappen to us, and then it's like
we can heal that and byadmitting that and sharing about
that and seeing that weactually restore a part of
ourselves.
And that to me, is like thegreatest thing in the world
because of almost every singleperson I know that I know
(25:38):
personally and that are in mylife personally, they're all
good people, they're reallygenuinely good people and I
think that for almost all ofthem 99% of them they're
greatest enemy is themselves andoutside of, like you know, it's
crazy different examples, butmost of the people what they
(26:01):
battle is how they talk tothemselves and how they treat
themselves, and shadow work inthese kinds of processes is a
way to kind of begin to be, tonurture, reparent and be kind to
ourselves and then find anenergy outlet or a voice for
that negative voice to go,because we can't stuff it down.
(26:25):
It wants to be shared and thatturned into my film pilgrimage
was.
The recovering addict in mecame out in it and now so much
of that is healed.
So much of that is healed andthat came through in a part
Because it's no longer a secret,yeah.
It's no longer a secret and itwas made into art.
It was given life, Like allthose negative shadow voices.
(26:47):
In my opinion, they just want avoice, yeah, and they just want
it to be heard in a way that weweren't heard at a certain
point in our lives.
And to me, the only way to dothis is creatively.
That's why I do what I do isthat's why the Greeks wrote
these tragedies and we were ableto see these like human foibles
(27:11):
on stage and go oh, I seemyself in that.
I'm not gonna do that anymore.
I'm not going to.
I want to be able to see thatartist express the depth of that
pain.
I can know what I don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
You cut out for just a little bit.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
I don't know.
It was a little bit of a delay,Sorry about that.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, I don't know what's going on with you.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Oh no, no, it was a little bit of a delay.
But I'm saying, is that why wedo that is to know what we don't
know?
And then, once we know, it'slike what?
Speaker 1 (27:44):
now, what do I do with?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
it.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
And you have to release it, and creativity is a
way to do that.
Is that what you're saying,100%?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
100%.
You can write a poem about it,you can paint about it, you can
cook about it, you can singabout it, you can do a podcast
about it, and then it's thensomething.
There's then that space isinside of us, and then we
actually can go.
I have now more room to bepresent in my life because I'm
(28:13):
not being weighed down by avoice from my past yes, yes,
it's usually a voice from ourpast and so it frees us up and
that's why I I'm here for andI'm probably gonna do a podcast
with you in six years.
I'll be like where?
Are you going to spray and I'mlike yep.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Cause you just keep peeling the layers off.
I know I know, as you weresaying, that I thought about the
book, my book, and how I sharedstories, and so it did feel
like it was an unloading ofstuff I'd been holding in myself
for so long, whether it wasgood stuff, bad stuff, whatever
information that I needed toshare.
(28:56):
It felt like kind of the same.
So it did create a lot of space.
So I agree with you 100% onthat and, yeah, it really frees
us up, I believe, when we canexpress ourselves.
Otherwise, if we're notexpressing ourselves, we're just
suppressing and, like you said,holding it, trying to hold it
in our physical container.
(29:17):
And I remember when I was atone of your retreats and I
cannot recall his name but thebreath worker that you hired to
Sam, he was amazing.
What's his name?
Again?
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Sam Morris.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Sam Morris, yeah, okay, so he is incredible, and
during that breath work session,I had that voice come in that
said you cannot contain this,and that was huge.
That just gave me permission torelease so much.
And so I feel like, yeah, ourbodies are, we're not meant to
(29:53):
contain the energy.
We need to let it move through.
We really need to express it.
And so this is what I've gotten, really from the artist way as
well.
It is you're going through yourstories, your shadows along the
way in the book and in theclass, and then, as you go, you
(30:13):
are unloading, unloading allthat baggage so that you do have
more space to create, as wellas a creative process to go
through that in the first place,you know.
So, yeah, that's really.
I've gotten so much out of it,so, yeah, thank you for that
that great explanation of theshadow.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah, and your book is seminal that it's not only
you used your pain and yourvictories to write a book.
It's like it now exists.
And now, so many things thatyou've done from that book have
created programs and podcastsand tours, and there's yes,
there's more to be done, but youhave a touchstone.
You go, oh, I can do it becauseI did it.
(30:56):
And that, to me, is you know alittle bit about what I do.
Sometimes I don't get to expressthis, so much is that I help
those that have been like, okay,I've done everything for money
and now I have this, but I don'thave something creative.
And it's like, okay, my mom justwrote a book this year and she
was a worker B for years andthen, you know, got into
(31:19):
spirituality and wrote a bookcalled Lotus.
And then I also feel likeartists also need structure.
They need to be able to be fedand to be able to ask for their
own value.
So interesting, I have thesetwo polar opposite programs,
which is the artist way, whichis opening us up, and to being
(31:41):
able to let the emotions out andlet the art out.
And then in the summer I do themoney course that I help like
hold these artists responsibleto their greatness, that we need
structure, we need paymentplans, we need websites, we need
things that like.
We need CPAs not to do ourtaxes, and it's like it's all
about balance, right?
So, yes, it's great to doshadow work, but we also, you
(32:04):
know, need to know how to pairbills at the same time.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah, that's important.
Yeah, you know, it's like abook.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Yeah, be good, you know, be good parents, and so
that's why, as I've just watchedat least I'll speak for myself
it's like I've watched so muchgrowth over these last few years
and about you know, whether itwas the film or these plays and
I see them all building on topof each other.
And so, for the first time, Idon't feel like, once a project
(32:35):
is over, I'm like it's over andnow I'm starting over.
Much like finally thriving.
It's like, yes, it's out there,but that is a stepping stone to
the next thing, like you'vebuilt something that you should
be incredibly proud of.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
And your next creation is like that old
ceiling is now the floor.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Right, you don't have to go back.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
You're stacking into creating a life and creating a
career.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
that's extraordinary, yeah yeah, working on a second
book as well.
That's taking a little longer,but yeah, well, yeah, I mean, I
love how you put that, becauseit's an ongoing process and
we're going to continue to dothis.
And I feel like creativity, insome ways, is just the fountain
of youth, like if, as you getolder, you just realize all
(33:28):
these things that you haven'thad the opportunity to create
yet and they're like oh, I wouldlike to create this and this
and this and this, and it's justthe world opens up Because you
spend most of your youth like ifyou have a family, you're
raising the family, you'reworking, and so most of the time
is spent developing your careerand you're raising your kids
(33:49):
and those things.
And then the way I'mexperiencing like the second
half of life is like, oh, wow,like this is the time to do all
the things I didn't get to do orhaven't done yet and learn Like
.
So this year I was learningmusic all year and that was
really amazing.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Oh yeah, you believe, right, you believe.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah, yeah, and I'm excited about your new book as
well.
That's amazing too.
You've been doing a lot of goodthings have been coming to you.
You've been creating your life,cause really the ultimate and
this you told me this years agothe ultimate creation is your
life.
You know like you're creatingthis in real time through your
schedule, through what youchoose to do every day, through
(34:34):
how you choose to decorate yourhouse, to what you put on first
thing in the morning, how youstart your morning.
Everything is a creation.
So, if we can even start therebecause many of us don't think
we're creative, but we are,everybody has, and this is what
I think moving into 2024 isgonna be really the most
(34:55):
important thing is to hone intoyour own inner creativity, your
own uniqueness there, and howyou see the world, how you show
up in the world, maybe how youwould like to make, what things,
other things you'd like to do.
You know what do you want to dodifferently that you haven't
done before.
So I think this class is gonnabe even more important than ever
(35:20):
for people, because we reallyare in a time where we need to
be creative.
It's like it's very important,you know.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Well, not to be doomsday here, I just love
everything you just said.
Like is that?
I think some?
There's always a challenge of adifferent age, there's always
challenges, but to me it feelslike information is not as
readily trusted as it was before.
And again, I'm not going to getinto any of the policies or any
(35:54):
of the things, but just I'mspeaking to myself as a creative
person that it just seems likeit's harder to deal with the
world than ever and there alwaysseems to be whether it's an
inflation, or I just got a billtoday from my car insurance, so
like, hey, we're adding $50.
I'm like eggs were like $10instead of two.
(36:14):
There's things that areconstantly shifting and we're
having to then deal with.
I mean, again, it was the lastfew years that we're in.
It was like this is the problem, this is the solution.
It's like oh wait, no, nevermind, that's not the problem,
this is yeah, like what's real.
So to me it's like weultimately and this came through
(36:38):
a very, very powerful healer ofmine and it stuck with me, this
woman named Patrice.
She's amazing and she said thatultimately, in this age of
Aquarius, out of the age ofPisces, is we're actually having
to stitch and create our ownreality and not to be delusional
(36:58):
in that reality.
I'm not saying that, but it'slike I'm noticing that the
leaders that I'm seeing areleaders that are more in smaller
pods or smaller groups, or it'snot so, and that's what feels
so nice about kind of likeleading something like the
artist way, where it's like.
And there's something I do nowbefore I take anyone into any of
(37:22):
my groups, I talk to them foran hour.
First.
I don't just let anyone in.
I think last year there weresome mentally unstable like it
because I didn't, you know, vetanybody coming in.
I was like, oh, it'd be great.
And I'm like, no, I've beenmore boundaries now and I'm
still.
Those doors are really flexible, but I'm putting more time and
(37:42):
more energy to make sure thatit's a safe space and it's like
I learned that and so it's alittle bit harder this year.
It's a little bit, but it'sworth, it's definitely worth it.
So, you know it's it's like,yes, we can be these sensitive
artists and yes, we're.
You want to be creative.
But I also would just say topeople it's like you know, be be
(38:03):
aware and be aware of yoursurroundings and be aware of
things we believe and make surethat we know that it's true for
us and and that it's been a veryinteresting couple of years and
that to know that I'mresponsible for my own reality
has kept me.
It's kept me so sane and I'mnot it's triggered about any of
(38:25):
the noise that's outside of me,because I go do my research and
do my work and I don't arguewith anyone.
I let everyone believe thatthey want to believe, because I
really feel like, as you said,like the groups of people that
we've put together, such reallygood people, because there's
(38:46):
what I love is there's apersonal accountability to them.
And then they're like, oh myGod, I can share this crazy
thought, or I can be this, andpeople around there like, hey, I
feel similarly to you and sothat's, that's something that
I'm this year.
It's like I love that for thosethat come that are new, it's
like we've really established acore group of people that are
(39:10):
awesome, that done this beforeand that you know, and I try to
partner up new people withpeople that have been there
before and it's it's, it's justamazing Like I I, the leading
these types of programs havereally saved my life and also
have made me go.
I don't know if there's anotherway, because you know, like I
(39:35):
have to be able to beresponsible to myself and to my
creativity, and especially asentrepreneurs.
It's like I don't get.
I don't go to some place,somebody for a paycheck.
It's like I'm constantly,always building something new
and each time it's like I got tomake sure that structure of
that, that new organism thatwe're building, is like sound
(40:00):
and and it's just so cool towatch what, and then, from that
safe kind of environment, towatch what's created out of.
That is John Bucadie's work,what he's doing, and like what
you're doing, oh my God.
And then the public thing comesout of it is something that's
(40:20):
really well researched and true,and then we back in a thousand
percent.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Yeah, I mean there's incredibly creative human beings
and good people, like you said,in that group.
I mean, I've been honored andjust just so delighted to be in
that group of people.
And what you said earlier, yes,we are creating our reality.
We have been creating ourreality the whole time.
I just don't think we noticedyou know as much as we do now in
(40:48):
some ways, and so, yes, there'sa collective reality or dream,
like my friend Paul Levy talksabout, and there's, you know,
your individual, like you'resaying, we get to take
responsibility for our ownreality, and that's really what
it's about.
It's like you're not givingyour power away to like, oh,
(41:09):
this person said this, so itmust be this or that.
You know what is your.
It's about discernment, it'sabout what your truth is right,
and so that's what we're gettingto hear as well.
As artists, as creatives, weare taking our creative power
back and we are learning how touse discernment and how we want
to.
You know.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
And have a voice and be willing to argue.
I love like where governmentused to be or things used to be,
where it's like I can disagreewith you and you could disagree
with you and it's not like rightso, and that we can be able to
go like I have a voice.
But I also love collaborationand I also go.
Actually, that's a reallyinteresting thought.
I need to rethink that I couldbe wrong or or I haven't refined
(41:52):
that idea enough and it's likehaving sort of a salon of place
to go like hey, I'm writing thischapter on this book and I need
somebody's feedback.
Will you read it?
I'm directing a music videoright now and the edit isn't
coming together and I let peoplelook at it and go God, that's
not right.
I love that.
(42:13):
I love surrounding myself withcreatives going.
It's just not there or this iswrong.
I need to take it into a newdirection, which I am.
I'm taking it into an entirelynew direction, but having a
space to be able to throw it.
You know, let an idea be bad.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Before I make it good Like that's what's so cool,
rather than being fragile in howwe see ourselves, and rather
than it's like we are sensitivebut not fragile, because I think
sensitive is actually thestrongest thing you can be,
because we're aware and and andfeeling that's, that's courage,
yeah absolutely yeah.
(42:51):
And so I just see like thegreatest albums ever created.
It's usually like artists thatwere like that sucked, no, that
sucked.
You suck Like the Beatles, youknow Radiohead, look at you know
Wilco, look at these these, youknow fluid Mac.
It's like they, these artists,come together and here's the
point.
The second answer to yourquestion about do you want to be
(43:13):
dark?
And then what about thesethings that were created that
were dark and and shadowy?
It's all about is what's thepurpose of it.
Are you doing it consciously?
You know, I think there'sreasons why movies like horror,
movies like hereditary, whichdealt with like family trauma,
and all of that is a differentbrand of movie as opposed to,
(43:36):
like you know, horror porn.
You know there's a reason whythere's, there's fire, you know,
and there's that, it's.
It's to me.
It's just what's the purpose?
Like I'm, is it being doneconsciously?
Am I going to that dark placeto to emulate something so that
(43:58):
people can see, like why doessomebody play the devil?
It's like you're playing thedevil to tell that story, like
you're, you're, you're goingthrough that darkness to
hopefully have a better hope forhumanity, or to that people can
empathize, like playing adepressed person or cuckoo's
nest.
It's like that's part of beingin three dimensional reality is
(44:22):
that there is polarity and sobeing able to embody that and do
it because, to me, as if we'redoing it dark for the sake of
dark, we're doing it forourselves.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
It's selfish.
It's ultimately selfish.
And if we're doing, if we'regoing through it because it's a
gift and it's it's somethingthat we're going there so that
we can help free somebody,because we're doing it as a, as
a gift, it is ultimatelyselfless and it's razor thin the
difference between that.
So is it about you or is itabout you?
(44:58):
Know, it's a universal themethat you're touching and to me
that is the difference.
Yes, so it's really that it'snot the what or the why, it
really is the how, it really ishow we go through that shadow.
That is all the difference.
And if we're doing it and youknow, like hurting ourselves to
(45:22):
do it, then I don't think ithelps anybody.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Yeah, I agree, that's a great way to put it.
I love that, jamie.
I love it.
One question also about okay,so you've been in the spiritual
community, you've been in theacting community, you know you
kind of put those two worldstogether and help people through
your coaching and also yourcreative expressions as well.
(45:53):
But what do you think about?
Like, in the spiritualcommunity there's a thing where
people don't want to see thedark side of things.
They want to stay in the lightall the time.
Have you seen that aspect inthe spiritual community?
Oh, the spiritual bypass.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
The spiritual bypassing.
Yeah, I wish I could play thison your.
It's so funny.
I'll send this to you privately.
It's a little Romdoss talk.
It's like six minutes and hetalks about that, the value of
processing, that we need toprocess our emotions, we need to
(46:30):
know that there's darknessinside of us, we need to know
that there's death and facingall of those things, like we've
got to do this.
But he's like but we can't staythere.
And then there's also the kindof the Buddhist or the like
detachment and the non-emotionalof separation from it and
witnessing it and being detachedfrom it, but we can't stay
(46:52):
there.
Let's say somebody is their kidor a grief happens.
It's like I'm just going to bean equanimity and I'm going to
meditate through it.
It's like I just don't knowthat there's anything valuable
there.
So I really believe that itagain, it's about balance.
(47:13):
It's about balance of we cantell when somebody's just been
kind of privileged andeverything's worked out for them
.
And then they're like oh, it'sso easy to manifest.
And it's like yeah, it was easyto manifest with your trust
fund, like you know what I'msaying, Like let's get real as
opposed to.
I think on some level,manifestation is could be true,
(47:38):
but to me manifestation comesfrom hard work, accountability
and trustability and consistency, and then I think we manifest
something when it has integrity.
That's how I've seen it.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Right.
And so to me, it's like we canall smell when we're being sold
something.
We all can tell when it's notauthentic.
And then there's a weird thingwhere somebody is like, bro,
you're being way too authentic,you're the private, so it's sort
(48:12):
of like this weird balance andI don't know how we do it.
I don't know how we do itbecause there's stuff that's
appropriate and but I also, youknow, I'm of the more of the,
you know, the aquarium coach,not the Pycean coach.
So I share my vulnerabilitieswith the men in my men's group
and my artists way I share whenI'm having a bad day.
(48:34):
I don't always go into details,but I go hey, this has been
really rough for me recently.
Yeah, I'm really doing my bestwith it, and that's never seemed
to turn anybody off.
It actually is a bit of arelief If somebody's like, yeah,
I'm winning, I'm great, I'mthis, oh girl.
(48:54):
And inside I'm just like 17weagles running around, like
it's just like we can becauseI'm a voice coach, like you can
hear it, like you can hear whensomebody's not speaking the
truth, you just feel it.
And so to me it's like I'mdoing this because I'm I know
I'm not consciously lying aboutanything in my life, but I want
(49:17):
to always make sure that I'mbeing as authentic as possible,
and so the spiritual bypassreally robs us of our greatest
gift as a coach, which is thatwe've been through it too.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
We've been through it too.
We've had heartbreak, we'vebeen abandoned, we've worked
through our stuff and hey,here's how you do it.
Somebody described this reallybeautifully like the difference
between a coach and a therapista coach or a sponsor in recovery
.
It's like for a therapist, theydon't want your experience.
(49:53):
Like with my therapists andthat I've worked with, I don't
want their experience.
Right, it creeps me out.
I want their expertise.
Yeah, I don't want to knowanything about my therapist
Right.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
That's the same for me too.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
Actually, Right, Exactly Well you're a therapist,
I'm going to talk and we'regoing to go through, and that's.
I need your expertise and yourdegree on the wall.
That's why I'm here.
If I'm working with a coach or,you know, again, in the 12th
step, recovery, when I'm workingwith a sponsor, I want their
experience and expertise.
(50:28):
But I want to go.
Hey, I said, how did you writethat book?
Yeah, how did you do it?
Jamie, how did you do thatperformance?
How do you do that voice thing?
How do you show up in your life, in men's work?
How did you stay sober?
I then share the allegories ofmy story.
I'd be a terrible therapistbecause I'm constantly making
(50:49):
reference to how I did it.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
Yeah, I'm not a therapist and I don't.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
That's so part of the coaching bypass is.
It's like, actually, yourexperience is what makes you a
good coach.
Hmm, yeah, and you're notsharing out of being, you're
making it about yourself.
You're going hey, you're notalone.
Hey, this is how I did it.
(51:15):
Here's a way and here's how Iwent through a breakup.
Here's how I went through thistrauma.
I remember when I studied withJohn Wymanland.
The reason why I studied withJohn for seven years was because
I was so impressed with how hewas a father to Claire and how
he still was showing up for mewhile he was being this amazing
(51:38):
father and was so human in hisvulnerability and I'm like how
did you do this?
I need to know how you did it.
And so he did the opposite ofthe bypass he actually really
embraced.
The heartbreak and the griefbecame an enormous part of why I
(51:58):
think he's as powerful as of ateacher he is today, and so I
think that those that arebypassing they're only cheating
themselves.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
Yeah, and it's.
It's like you're saying I lovethat and you're saying that
humility, you know, being humbleand being human, you know, is
really what people need for thatconnection.
And you know, for me also, yes,I wanted some.
I want to be coached by someonewho's been through this before
you know and can give me, youknow, some guidance there.
(52:31):
So, yes, I agree with that somuch, and I think there's a lot
of coaches that have notactually had a lot of life
experience yet to go throughsome of those things and they
act like they can help peopleand that's cool too, but you
know, it might not be.
Speaker 2 (52:48):
Wow, it's not that cool.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
I know it's not very cool at all actually.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
Like, as you said, and I was like I don't know if
that's true.
You know, there's a reason why Idon't think I really became
like a coach.
I mean, I was those 14, 2014,.
I assisted essentially for sixyears before I led my own men's
program.
I started my own men's program,I think, at 42, 43, before I
(53:15):
actually kind of knew my assfrom my elbow, like, I mean, I
knew how to be an acting coach,I knew how to do that, I knew
how to be a voice coach and Iwas able to do some career
coaching, but I wasn't able toreally be the kind of life coach
that I am today, an executivecoach that I am today, because
(53:38):
I've helped make multimilliondollar projects happen and
worked with people in piecesthat are on these things, and
it's like, oh, I've done it,enough to go, I have some
experience and I did it while Iwas going through some of the
hardest times of my life andstill was able to do both things
and take care of myself andhave privacy and also be
(53:59):
authentic.
And it's just, it's so nuancedand it's layer by layer.
And then, and also the otherthing I'll share about that is,
I think, patience.
I think it's like none of thishealing and none of this work
has to happen overnight or injust one year.
It's like you know, as MilesDavis said, it takes a long time
(54:21):
to sound like yourself andmaybe when I do the artist's way
this year I might only reallytune up and come in into
integrity around two or threethings tops.
Maybe I'm gonna type without,maybe I'll edit better and do
typos better, maybe I'll be ableto do make sure that I'm
(54:43):
getting my auditions out theremore often.
Like whatever the things are,it's like it doesn't all have to
happen today.
It's like do your best but alsojust know it takes time.
One of my favorite things Iheard from a coach once was we
often overestimate what we canaccomplish in a year, but we
(55:06):
underestimate what we canaccomplish in 10.
Yeah, I remember when you saidthat If I were to, really look
back at 2014 to 2024, which isinteresting that you said that.
It's like, wow, my life ismassively different, my impact
is massively different.
And it's like, whoa, look atall that has been created in
(55:26):
that time and now like oh, myGod it's a new year, what am I
gonna do in this new year?
And it's like, well, what if Iactually looked at it Like, what
do I wanna do these next 10years?
And I think I'd actually bemore connected and deeper and
more calm and actually maybeeven accomplish more next year
if my goal is to be like it'sgonna take 10.
Speaker 1 (55:48):
Yeah, because you're giving yourself space right.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
And know that it's like I gotta start now and this
is not gonna be.
They said it when I remember,when I first got sober they said
you really don't pull your headout of your butt as an addict
for 10 years 14 now.
Yeah, it's been about 10 yearsof sobriety to finally go.
(56:17):
Oh, I'm sober after six months,like, for me, that just wasn't,
even though I didn't drink forsix months.
It just took time to heal andto live in this new energy.
And that takes it just takestime and it's painful.
It's really painful, but it'sso worth it, because the other
pain is like the groundhog day.
(56:38):
I'm back doing the same shitover and over again, and to me,
that's why, like the lotusflower, the lotus flower is
connected to that beautifulflower.
It grows out of shit.
Speaker 1 (56:54):
Right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:55):
So if you wanna put this beautiful stuff out on the
world, you gotta be connected toyour shit.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
I like that and I like how you said it takes a
long time to find your voice.
Miles Davis said that.
Right, is that what?
Speaker 2 (57:09):
you.
Was that the chorus?
It takes a long time to soundlike yourself.
Speaker 1 (57:11):
To sound like yourself.
That's it, yes, and I'veexperienced that and I know in
what I wonder sometimes like whydoes it take us so long to
sound like ourselves?
Because we should have beenable to sound like ourselves
from day one, but it just takesas long as it takes, I guess.
(57:31):
But yes, I've been on thisjourney myself.
Speaker 2 (57:33):
It just takes a minute.
There's an artist right now,this guy named, I think, oliver
Anthony.
He has a song out calledNorthman, north of Richmond, and
he wrote a song and again, nottaking political, but the song
is so riveting and itencapsulate, it was like.
But he was probably playingmusic for 20 years, you know.
(57:54):
Just, he does put it on theinternet and then it's his over
sensation, but it's like itwasn't, like he just learned to
play the song that day and nowthe song is out.
It's like we're going throughthis the whole time, and maybe
it's not that it's taking youalong to sound like yourself.
It's that maybe you haven't yetaligned fully to the audience
that you're meant to have.
(58:14):
I think you sound a lot likeyourself, as I do too.
It's just who knows who'slistening and what when the
world really needs our voice.
So we have to constantly becultivating it over time, and
the people that I admire are thepeople who are truly dedicated
(58:34):
to being a good person and agood creator, and those two
things are one and the same.
Speaker 1 (58:39):
Yeah, I love that.
Well, let's make sure that wetalk about the artist's way and
just give everybody just an ideaof what that is and when it's
happening and all the details.
Speaker 2 (58:52):
I extended it a week, the starting of it, just
because the first day is the dayright after New Year's, yeah
right, and I just was feeling alittle bit of pressure and I
wanted to give space.
I ended up moving the workshopto the end of March, so it's
Tuesday nights 6 pm Pacific time.
It's about 75 minutes.
So it'll be guest teachers.
(59:12):
It's going to be amazing of thepeople we had.
Speaker 1 (59:16):
I'll be teaching.
Speaker 2 (59:17):
You will be guest teachers.
And so will John Bukhati, andso will Brie, and I have a few
others, and then there's a Zoomopen room that people anyone can
join, that we write in in themorning, but it can be it's open
24 hours.
And then we'll have writingbuddies and I'll partner people
(59:39):
up to have accountability.
Speaker 1 (59:41):
You say writing buddies.
Speaker 2 (59:42):
And then a three-day workshop in Ohio.
Yeah, you can even.
It's just like a WhatsApp soyou can just say, hey, I did my
writing.
It's like a dailyaccountability to your person.
I've found that that reallyhelped, and helps to have an
accountability buddy.
But it's just meeting withartists and going through each
chapter per week, so it lasts atotal of 13 weeks because
(01:00:06):
there's the introduction andthen it goes to the end of March
.
There's it's a 2,500 foreverything, so it's the catering
in the final workshop, if youwell get into the workshop later
.
Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
You would spend that much just on a retreat, you know
.
Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Yeah, I know, I know it's three months, You're
getting both.
You had a one-on-one sessionwith me but yeah, it's 13 calls
and a retreat for 2,500.
Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
That's amazing.
And then you I just love theaccountability.
You kind of cut out a littlebit.
That's why I wanted you torepeat that.
But the accountability buddy isgreat because you get the extra
support from people and thatconnection from people in the
group as well, and it's just anamazing program.
And the fact that you offer thewriting every morning too,
(01:00:59):
that's incredible.
I mean, I don't know if peopleunderstand how much time you put
into this and how much youoffer, but it is a big deal and
that's a lot, a lot of support.
So, if you're listening andyou're wanting to write a book,
this is how I started my book.
I just started writing everyday, every morning, started with
morning pages, if you'refamiliar with the artist's way,
(01:01:22):
and it really facilitated thatfor me and my ability to be
creative that way.
So I highly recommend, ifyou're working on a creative
project or you just wanna kindof you know, clear the clutter
for the new year, this is aperfect opportunity to do it.
Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Oh, it's the best New Year's resolution there is,
because it actually hassustenance to it and it's like
and we hold you accountable, andthis is the fourth year I've
done it, so I've gotten reallylike clear, like I know how to
run it and it almost runs itself, if in a way now, because the
(01:02:01):
people that have joined havejoined again, keep joining again
, and so it's just like thefirst year I was like what am I
doing?
And like thank you for fumblingthrough it with me the first
time.
But now it's like a reallywell-willed machine and we will
serve you guys and I would loveany of your people.
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
Yeah, well, thank you , jamie.
Thanks for coming on.
And where can they sign up forthat?
Do you have a website they cango to?
I can leave it in the shownotes as well.
Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Yeah, there you have the link that I sent you and you
could also go throughjaymeowallrubcom and you can
sign up through that.
You can do a free consultationwith me.
You want to talk to me about itone-on-one, if it's right for
you, and I'm looking forward toit.
We begin January 9th.
Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
Awesome Thanks.
Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
Jamie, all right, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Allison, your life is your greatest work of art and
it all relates back to the samefinesse, the same finesse, the
same finesse, the same finesse.
Thank you.
Music.
Your life is your greatest workof art and it all relates back
to the synchronicity.
Welcome to Integrate Yourselfeverybody.
I'm your host, alison Pillow,and you can find me on
alisonpillowcom and, finally,thrivingprogramcom.
Today, I'm here with a veryspecial guest, my good friend,
(00:41):
jamie Woolrab.
For the better part of twodecades, jamie has been a
multifaceted coach and this timehe has worked with some of the
most influential people in theentertainment, music, personal
development and wellnesscommunities.
In 2014, jamie began studyingwith the men's leadership and
embodiment coach, john Weinland,and assisted countless
(01:02):
workshops with John in both thearea of masculine work as well
as relationship and intimacy.
Additionally, jamie co-teachesembodiment workshop geared
towards young in shadow,integration and chakra sound
healing.
While his years spent in theworld of acting and performance
have greatly impacted andinfluenced him as a teacher, his
(01:25):
true passion lies in joiningsuccess, artistic fulfillment
and emotional and spiritualhealth.
He is deeply honored andprivileged to bring his entirely
unique set of skills to eachand every client.
His company, jamie WoolrabStudios, produced an
award-winning film, pilgrimagein 2021.
He just directed a steady reignin Santa Fe while acting in the
(01:50):
world premiere of a brother'splay.
He has been teaching actingvoice and men's workshops all
over the world and, jamie, youare a dear friend of mine.
You and I have been workingtogether for years, so I am so
excited you're here and I can'twait to talk about what we're
going to talk about the artist'sjourney, the artist's way.
I'm joining you on.
(02:11):
This will be like probably thefourth year I'm joining the
artist's way group and we'regoing to get more into what
that's about today.
Yeah, it's been incredible, soI would love for you to share
more about that, as well asanything else you'd like to
share about yourself today.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Amazing and thank you so much, and I think this is
our first podcast in a few years.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
It's been a while yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
It's been a while and we've had so many interactions
between them.
God, it's so interesting tolisten to your bio.
Back to you and you're like isthat who I am?
Is that me?
Did I do that?
It's such a trip.
I don't think I've read that orseen that it gets updated here
and there, but I guess that'sthe best way to describe it.
(02:58):
It's sometimes we want to beable to describe what we do
outside, so it would be, tolayman's terms, whatever people
that aren't like in the lack ofa better term cult of, you know,
coaching.
It's like what is it that we do?
And it's when I, you know, Ithink what's something that I
(03:18):
really want to talk about todayand share and hear from you to
is that how we're always notjust being creative, but we're
creating ourselves and we'recreating what we are and what we
do.
And sometimes it's because wehave to look back and like what
have I been doing the last threeyears?
And, okay, I might need a newtitle because I'm actually doing
this.
So I'm, you know, you're anauthor now, a published author.
(03:40):
You know I'm a director now andI'm, you know, moving more into
executive coaching, which isnot because I called myself that
, but because that's really whatI'm doing.
And so I think that our titlesof whatever it is that we are
are constantly changing, unlessyou're a banker and you're a
banker and you've been a bankerand you keep going and being a
(04:01):
banker.
But with us it's like we're onthe cutting edge, like we're
always evolving of what the newand I think that that's what's
so important about being anartist is that we can be
flexible as well in our ownidentity.
Just a trip to hear that backand we're like I know I was
(04:25):
embarrassed and shy and you know, I'm sure your, your bio would
be the same, but I just thinkthat's it's such an interesting
kind of way into theconversation.
It's like you know who are weand that is part of what we're
creating as well.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Absolutely and honestly.
There was more.
There was more of your bio.
I could have read JV.
You have so much experience.
I wanted to just focus in onmore of the coaching part of you
, but you have had so much.
I mean, you're an incredibleperson in the way you have
helped people in the acting, inthe acting realm and on a
(05:06):
personal level with just theirpersonal growth and all kinds of
spiritual growth as well.
So, when it comes to peoplelike you, there's not there's
not very many people who can doall of that.
That's just so much.
And you've helped me as wellwith my creative projects and as
(05:27):
well, you know, your wife hashelped me with the book and we
have a long history together andso, yeah, you've been a huge
inspiration to me.
So, I mean, I've just reallybeen so grateful.
I got to, I got to connect withyou years ago, I think back
like in it was like 2019.
We did a.
(05:48):
I did an acting workshop withyou in New York and that was
really incredible.
You just opened me up to a newpart of me that I didn't even
know existed.
You know it was it was reallymagical.
So you have, like it doesn'tmatter what you call yourself
you're good at.
You are like really talented atwhat you do and how you help
(06:09):
people and you've called it manydifferent things but what
really matters is like thatmagic that you bring to the
table, and you always bringgreat people together as well.
I've noticed that throughoutthe years just really incredible
people, and I've always enjoyedbeing in in that those
communities as well.
(06:30):
So, yeah, yeah, just wanted togive you some praise there.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I, you know, oh, thank you, learning how to
receive and and I've seen youhelp me with training and you've
helped me, I think the peoplethat are the best at what they
do me effortless, and thensometimes, when you get praise
for it, you're like I was justbeing myself and you know being
able to.
(06:58):
I'm actually going to turn onmy off by my focus, and that is
just an extension of who you areas yours, as your healer and as
your you know, your coach andyour directing people and their,
their health and their bodies.
It was.
It was interesting.
I'll speak to one thing.
I directed a play this year thatI was immensely proud of.
(07:18):
It's in the bio but a steadyrain.
We ended up doing it in SantaFe and it was such a success.
We ended up bringing it to LosAngeles and what was, what was
special about it was thatusually in a you know, an
artistic process, like you knowactor, you direct something and
then the show's over and peopleare like, oh my God, you were so
(07:38):
good, but what was?
There was something differentabout this experience, and this
experience was people said, howdid you do that?
Like, how did you do that?
Because it was such animmersive and it was a very
alive experience and I wanted tospeak to the artist and living
(08:00):
a life of an artist and I hadjust in Santa before I went to
Santa Fe, I was in Coloradorunning a men's retreat.
That went very well and and Isaid well because I didn't
direct the play any differentlythan I ran my men's retreat I
did it.
They were very similar.
It was I talked to my internsin the same way I would talk to,
(08:26):
you know, the star actor thatthere was months of preparation,
there was, you know, meditatingon a theme and really it wasn't
just like, hey, let's sit someguys together and do it, like it
was immense amount ofpreparation and while I was
being vulnerable and a Well, ifmistakes happened or
(08:48):
miscommunication happened, Iknew I was the one that was like
I was leading this and I wasdirecting this.
So I was like the buck stopswith me.
Okay, that's my fault that thatdidn't happen, that didn't work
.
And so it was interestingseeing that that the spiritual
path and the start path arereally one in the same.
(09:09):
And I'm not rambling, but I wasreading this amazing book by Gay
Hendricks called um, the SevenSecrets of the Corporate Mystic
and he literally said what I was, what I just said to you, and I
was saying this before I readthe book.
And in the book, in this firstchapter book, he talked about a
CEO of I think it was um,motorola and, uh, the spiritual
(09:33):
teacher.
There's this Buddhistmeditation teacher that he went
on a seven day retreat with andhe said something interesting.
He said he saw that they wereso similar that this, this woman
that was leading thismeditation retreat, and this man
that was like leading thiscompany that was thriving, that
he saw this core principle ofspiritual um integrity there was
(10:00):
, there were synonymous betweenthe two of them.
And that, to me, has just takentime.
And you know, in the work thatyou and I have done together,
it's like how long have you beena trainer?
How long have I been an actingcoach?
How long have I been an actor?
And it's like we're stillgetting better.
Like how long have you been awriter?
It's like we're still sandingthat statue, we're still working
(10:23):
this, and yet it becomes themore we work on it, the more
it's really one thing.
It's really one thing about howit's how we are being is what
then emulates the work and theimpact we have in the world.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, yeah, that's.
That's exactly where I wasgoing with that yeah Is is that
it doesn't matter what you callit, you know you are, you know
you're that energy that you'recreating right, that you're
cultivating every day.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
We all are.
I think we all are.
Exactly, yeah, we all are, don'twe wish politicians would do
the same thing?
It's like, you know, that'swhat's so tricky about that
world, where it's a very strictworld, where it's like, you know
, and I think that's that, to me, is why I'm attracted to these
(11:21):
really authentic souls andpeople who are, who are seeking
that, and so they, you know,they come into our groups
because they're like we knowthere's something that's not
right about outside in the world.
And I don't want to just gettriggered and air on, you know,
facebook and be like can youbelieve this person?
It's like we're going to go.
No, no, no, no.
This is triggering me becausethere's an aspect of this that I
(11:43):
have within myself and I can'tmake it.
I can't make a difference untilI've owned that part of me or I
made a play about it or wrote abook about it, right, and so
then we're, and then that'samazing, it's like then people
read, finally Thriving, or theyjoin the artist's way group and
then they kind of get a taste of, oh, somebody can do this, they
(12:05):
can make.
You know, there was somebodysaid this recently about alchemy
like alchemy, like in their oldhermetic senses, turning iron
into gold, and they thought,like it's not, you know,
chemically possible to do that.
But what they're really talkingabout is the alchemy of us as
beings, is that we're turningour own lead, as of ourselves,
(12:28):
into gold.
We are refining our spirit, ourmind, our body and you know and
you know this as a coach it'slike you want a great life.
It's like you got to eat welland you got to move your body
and you got to get your rest andyou got to speak up and share
your voice about what it is thatyou're trying to, you know
(12:51):
you're wanting to express andthat's out.
That's the alchemy.
And then, all of a sudden, asI've noticed through whether it
was the play or whether it wasthe artist's way or our last
course we did on money is that Ijust saw everyone kind of turn
into gold by working throughthese questions, writing, and
like I saw that the alchemyhappened and then everyone left
(13:15):
in this, like we left thembetter than we found them right,
and so and I don't think thatprocess ever ends I'm just so
grateful to have friends likeyou and a platform like this to
be able to talk about it,because you remind me and affirm
me that it's like no, this isworth it, this matters.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Oh yeah, what we do is these creative.
Sometimes it feels like itdoesn't, doesn't it Right?
Yeah, like.
I've felt like that with myskill set as well, with being a
trainer and you know, justdiscounting the physical aspects
of living, but like it's, youhave to bring those higher
aspects and spirituality intoyour body, into embodiment, so
(13:59):
otherwise, like, you're notgoing to be in a body, right,
like, what's the point of beingin a body if we're not embodying
?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
those higher aspects.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Well, I'll throw one in that even deeper is that even
success won't feel good.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
So you're not embodied in it, you're not
understanding it.
Like there again, another GayHendricks reference of the Big
Leap, which is you'll have anupper limit and we'll sabotage
it, we won't.
We'll be like I didn't earnthis, I screwed somebody over to
get here.
It was nepotism or whatever thethings may be that got that
(14:38):
success.
Inside will know that it's likeit doesn't feel right or it
doesn't feel good, but I believe, like this work, the successes
in that doing, and then if theoutside approval does come again
it's more of an affirmation.
It's like, yeah, no, I really,I really did give my best to
(15:01):
those men on that men's retreatand I really genuinely gave my
best to those, those, thoseartists on that play.
And so when people enjoyed itand it was this and it was a
success, it felt coherent, itfelt like, oh, I can receive it
because that feels true, becauseI really did try and I know I
could have done better in manyof the areas.
(15:22):
But it was like I was up everymorning and meditating and
working out and looking at mypart and like surrounding myself
with people that were trustable, and I was like and then,
what's the?
This is the crazy thing.
Allison is at the end of it yougo I really love my life Because
I'm, because it's it's, it isin the actions that we're taking
(15:48):
in the world, and it's like, ohmy God, I actually believe what
I'm saying and I can stand byit.
And it was like I was sayingthis to you before we got on the
recording.
But it's like you're like, howare you doing?
And I'm like, because I can't.
I'm about to lead a group and Ican't do the things that aren't
(16:10):
the guy that leads the group.
You know I can't go off and youknow, drown in fast food or
something.
If I'm the trainer, I mean wecan, but we'll know we're not
ultimately serving the peoplethat we're going to be serving.
And so there's some days whereyou're like, oh, I have to be
good in, good in my heartbecause I know that I'm the
(16:33):
transmission of what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah, I love the way you say that Absolutely, because
that's called living inintegrity, like if we're, if
we're teaching something, youknow we have to also.
I think, anyway, it's good foryou to experience it as well,
right Before you can reallyteach it.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
So I'm going to pay me for this Right.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I'm not going to be a really good trainer if I don't
take care of my own body?
Right, but there are tradersout there like that, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure I was one of them.
I was a trainer that did thatand I was like I don't have the
fortitude for that, but againit's our own sort of junk food
behaviors.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
You know, as we as artists, it's not about being a
perfectionist, but it's aboutbeing authentic.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yes, authentic is the good word for it.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
I'm so moved about doing the artist's way again
this year with all of you iswhat I'm already feeling the
people that I've already joinedand like Karen is joining this
year and she's assisting me andshe was in the money group and
her enthusiasm of what changedher life during the money group
like you can't buy that kind ofauthenticity.
(17:48):
And now she's likeproselytizing about the artist's
way, which is really cool andI'm like that's success to me.
It's like, oh you, I want tospend more time with you in my
world and you know to get intolike the artist's way.
It's like I and this was Ithink this will be my fourth
year doing it.
Europe part of the first year islike we're constantly creating
(18:11):
our lives and we're creating,you know, whether it's interior,
decorating our home.
I just bought a cabin up inIdle Island and it's like, how
do I want to design that and howam I going to down to the
paintings, down to what I'mcooking, down to, and I'm going
to write.
I'm actually going to write abook about this, this year
(18:31):
called the Art of.
Creative Living, which islooking at all aspects of my
life and going every single ofthe aspects that have cultivated
and that I'm proud of.
It's because I brought anartist way to my approach to it.
Yeah, right Down to how we dressdown to how you know we solve
(18:52):
problems, or relationshipproblems.
It's like, oh, I want to justscream at this person a French
relationship I'm in and I'd loveto just blow up.
But I know that things like aMago dialogue and things like
that, it's like okay, but if I'mcreative in my communication,
we're gonna get better, we'llhave a better result, and I know
(19:13):
that.
I know that, but I still needto be like reminded.
So I know I'm talking a lot, soI'll pass.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Oh no, that's what we're here for.
We're here to hear you talk.
So I wanted to talk a littlebit about the shadow stuff,
because you really taught me alot about shadow.
Let me turn this.
Oh yeah, so, and this is onething I've really been
integrating even more this yearis, you know, cause?
(19:43):
You mentioned the wordperfectionism and for some of us
who are trying to be perfectand fit in, you know, and all
those things, and it's like wehave been pushing those shadows
away, right, it's for years, andthen finally, when we step into
the shadow and we just makepeace with it and acknowledge
that it even exists, then itjust dissipates, right.
(20:05):
I've experienced that in some ofyour working with you really a
lot of some of the workshops andalso some of the one-on-one
work and so, as that relates tocreativity, I've had a question
a while back and the person waslike, well, isn't it good to
have, like, aren't people youknow, creating from their
(20:30):
shadows, like and creating, andisn't that like something that
is inspiring them to create?
And, you know, shouldn't wejust like?
You know what's that I mean?
My answer was that, well, Imean, if you're creating from a
less wounded place and you havemade peace with your shadows,
(20:50):
and if you're, then you're gonnacreate more purely in a sense,
right, so, yes, you can createfrom a wounded place, but what
is your opinion on this, jamie?
In my opinion, it's more.
I think it's going to be a morepure creation, it's gonna be
more authentic, even if it'scoming from a place of health
(21:13):
and healing.
And I don't know what is your-.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
I think I have again as well.
This is always a moving feast.
I think I have my answer for ittoday, which is my.
You know the kind of the thingthat I'm working with myself.
So, because I can get into theshadow and are we gonna work
(21:38):
from a destructive or a creativeplace?
I don't see it as bad or evilor anything like that.
Like am I gonna be a methodactor and really shoot heroin to
play a heroin addict Like it'syou?
Speaker 1 (21:49):
know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, yeah, or am I going to you know, look at it
through a vein of healing, andhow to transmute that.
And just again, I'm using theword alchemy.
But here's my thought.
I'm gonna break this down in away that I think is you know,
(22:10):
for people that don't know whichhow to work is, and I think
it's really simple.
I think in life we know what weknow, right.
So I know you're my friendAllison.
I know that you're a trainer, Iknow that you know I have an
acting degree.
I know that my name is Jamie, Iknow that you know.
There's things that I know thesky is blue and I know what I
(22:30):
know.
And then there's the things Iknow that I don't know, which is
?
I know I don't speak MandarinChinese.
I know that I don't know how todunk a basketball, like there's
things I don't know and I knowthat I don't know it and that's
great.
So there's the things that Iknow, that I know, and there's
the things that I know that Idon't know, and that's all
conscious and that's all great.
I think where we all get intotrouble is that when we don't
(22:54):
know that we don't know Right.
Right, it's like if you everbeen in a fight with somebody
and they're like you're like,stop yelling at me.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
They're like I'm not yelling at you, You're like yes,
you are.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
They really don't think they're yelling and they
don't think that that's whatthey're doing and that's, you
know, your people.
And I think, like this wholeworld, of being gaslit, I think
that that word is completelyabused and overused, other than
some cases, because I think mostpeople just don't know that,
they don't know that they'redoing that Right.
(23:27):
I see, I don't think they knowthat they're like I'm they're
lying, but they don't even knowthat they're lying.
They're just denial.
Ms, I don't even notice I amlying.
Yeah, the shadow work is to meis what is our blind spot?
It's just what we don't know.
It's what we don't know ordon't want to know about
ourselves.
So what the artist way does, orshadow work does because they
(23:50):
kind of get to the same point isthat they help us know what we
don't know, helps us know thatyou know whether we have an
abuse of addiction of some kind,whether a person is toxic for
us, or whether you know ournegative thoughts about
ourselves.
So if we have a negativethought about ourselves, it's
like oh, I'm stupid, god, I'mjust stupid.
(24:11):
But it's kind of like the callscoming from inside the house.
So you and because you know afish doesn't know he's wet, you
just kind of go.
Oh, I just am stupid.
That's just is, that's myreality and I don't know that.
I don't know that that's anarrative that could be changed.
(24:35):
So shadow work is a way to kindof separate that part of me
outside of me and creating acharacter or something.
It's like you're stupid, you'restupid, you're just an idiot.
And then I'm like, and thenI've like distanced myself from
that voice of anthropomorphizethat voice, and then I go, oh my
(24:57):
God, that thing is literallywas like some kind of you know
parasite as part of me, and thenthe more I can separate it and
see it and then talk to it likewhat does it want from me?
Like what do you need?
What's the voice?
And it's you know, it's youknow childhood trauma or it's
(25:17):
these negative beliefs thathappen to us, and then it's like
we can heal that and byadmitting that and sharing about
that and seeing that weactually restore a part of
ourselves.
And that to me, is like thegreatest thing in the world
because of almost every singleperson I know that I know
(25:38):
personally and that are in mylife personally, they're all
good people, they're reallygenuinely good people and I
think that for almost all ofthem 99% of them they're
greatest enemy is themselves andoutside of, like you know, it's
crazy different examples, butmost of the people what they
(26:01):
battle is how they talk tothemselves and how they treat
themselves, and shadow work inthese kinds of processes is a
way to kind of begin to be, tonurture, reparent and be kind to
ourselves and then find anenergy outlet or a voice for
that negative voice to go,because we can't stuff it down.
(26:25):
It wants to be shared and thatturned into my film pilgrimage
was.
The recovering addict in mecame out in it and now so much
of that is healed.
So much of that is healed andthat came through in a part
Because it's no longer a secret,yeah.
It's no longer a secret and itwas made into art.
It was given life, Like allthose negative shadow voices.
(26:47):
In my opinion, they just want avoice, yeah, and they just want
it to be heard in a way that weweren't heard at a certain
point in our lives.
And to me, the only way to dothis is creatively.
That's why I do what I do isthat's why the Greeks wrote
these tragedies and we were ableto see these like human foibles
(27:11):
on stage and go oh, I seemyself in that.
I'm not gonna do that anymore.
I'm not going to.
I want to be able to see thatartist express the depth of that
pain.
I can know what I don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
You cut out for just a little bit.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
I don't know.
It was a little bit of a delay,Sorry about that.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, I don't know what's going on with you.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Oh no, no, it was a little bit of a delay.
But I'm saying, is that why wedo that is to know what we don't
know?
And then, once we know, it'slike what?
Speaker 1 (27:44):
now, what do I do with?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
it.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
And you have to release it, and creativity is a
way to do that.
Is that what you're saying,100%?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
100%.
You can write a poem about it,you can paint about it, you can
cook about it, you can singabout it, you can do a podcast
about it, and then it's thensomething.
There's then that space isinside of us, and then we
actually can go.
I have now more room to bepresent in my life because I'm
(28:13):
not being weighed down by avoice from my past yes, yes,
it's usually a voice from ourpast and so it frees us up and
that's why I I'm here for andI'm probably gonna do a podcast
with you in six years.
I'll be like where?
Are you going to spray and I'mlike yep.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Cause you just keep peeling the layers off.
I know I know, as you weresaying, that I thought about the
book, my book, and how I sharedstories, and so it did feel
like it was an unloading ofstuff I'd been holding in myself
for so long, whether it wasgood stuff, bad stuff, whatever
information that I needed toshare.
(28:56):
It felt like kind of the same.
So it did create a lot of space.
So I agree with you 100% onthat and, yeah, it really frees
us up, I believe, when we canexpress ourselves.
Otherwise, if we're notexpressing ourselves, we're just
suppressing and, like you said,holding it, trying to hold it
in our physical container.
(29:17):
And I remember when I was atone of your retreats and I
cannot recall his name but thebreath worker that you hired to
Sam, he was amazing.
What's his name?
Again?
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Sam Morris.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Sam Morris, yeah, okay, so he is incredible, and
during that breath work session,I had that voice come in that
said you cannot contain this,and that was huge.
That just gave me permission torelease so much.
And so I feel like, yeah, ourbodies are, we're not meant to
(29:53):
contain the energy.
We need to let it move through.
We really need to express it.
And so this is what I've gotten, really from the artist way as
well.
It is you're going through yourstories, your shadows along the
way in the book and in theclass, and then, as you go, you
(30:13):
are unloading, unloading allthat baggage so that you do have
more space to create, as wellas a creative process to go
through that in the first place,you know.
So, yeah, that's really.
I've gotten so much out of it,so, yeah, thank you for that
that great explanation of theshadow.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah, and your book is seminal that it's not only
you used your pain and yourvictories to write a book.
It's like it now exists.
And now, so many things thatyou've done from that book have
created programs and podcastsand tours, and there's yes,
there's more to be done, but youhave a touchstone.
You go, oh, I can do it becauseI did it.
(30:56):
And that, to me, is you know alittle bit about what I do.
Sometimes I don't get to expressthis, so much is that I help
those that have been like, okay,I've done everything for money
and now I have this, but I don'thave something creative.
And it's like, okay, my mom justwrote a book this year and she
was a worker B for years andthen, you know, got into
(31:19):
spirituality and wrote a bookcalled Lotus.
And then I also feel likeartists also need structure.
They need to be able to be fedand to be able to ask for their
own value.
So interesting, I have thesetwo polar opposite programs,
which is the artist way, whichis opening us up, and to being
(31:41):
able to let the emotions out andlet the art out.
And then in the summer I do themoney course that I help like
hold these artists responsibleto their greatness, that we need
structure, we need paymentplans, we need websites, we need
things that like.
We need CPAs not to do ourtaxes, and it's like it's all
about balance, right?
So, yes, it's great to doshadow work, but we also, you
(32:04):
know, need to know how to pairbills at the same time.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah, that's important.
Yeah, you know, it's like abook.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Yeah, be good, you know, be good parents, and so
that's why, as I've just watchedat least I'll speak for myself
it's like I've watched so muchgrowth over these last few years
and about you know, whether itwas the film or these plays and
I see them all building on topof each other.
And so, for the first time, Idon't feel like, once a project
(32:35):
is over, I'm like it's over andnow I'm starting over.
Much like finally thriving.
It's like, yes, it's out there,but that is a stepping stone to
the next thing, like you'vebuilt something that you should
be incredibly proud of.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
And your next creation is like that old
ceiling is now the floor.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Right, you don't have to go back.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
You're stacking into creating a life and creating a
career.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
that's extraordinary, yeah yeah, working on a second
book as well.
That's taking a little longer,but yeah, well, yeah, I mean, I
love how you put that, becauseit's an ongoing process and
we're going to continue to dothis.
And I feel like creativity, insome ways, is just the fountain
of youth, like if, as you getolder, you just realize all
(33:28):
these things that you haven'thad the opportunity to create
yet and they're like oh, I wouldlike to create this and this
and this and this, and it's justthe world opens up Because you
spend most of your youth like ifyou have a family, you're
raising the family, you'reworking, and so most of the time
is spent developing your careerand you're raising your kids
(33:49):
and those things.
And then the way I'mexperiencing like the second
half of life is like, oh, wow,like this is the time to do all
the things I didn't get to do orhaven't done yet and learn Like
.
So this year I was learningmusic all year and that was
really amazing.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Oh yeah, you believe, right, you believe.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah, yeah, and I'm excited about your new book as
well.
That's amazing too.
You've been doing a lot of goodthings have been coming to you.
You've been creating your life,cause really the ultimate and
this you told me this years agothe ultimate creation is your
life.
You know like you're creatingthis in real time through your
schedule, through what youchoose to do every day, through
(34:34):
how you choose to decorate yourhouse, to what you put on first
thing in the morning, how youstart your morning.
Everything is a creation.
So, if we can even start therebecause many of us don't think
we're creative, but we are,everybody has, and this is what
I think moving into 2024 isgonna be really the most
(34:55):
important thing is to hone intoyour own inner creativity, your
own uniqueness there, and howyou see the world, how you show
up in the world, maybe how youwould like to make, what things,
other things you'd like to do.
You know what do you want to dodifferently that you haven't
done before.
So I think this class is gonnabe even more important than ever
(35:20):
for people, because we reallyare in a time where we need to
be creative.
It's like it's very important,you know.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Well, not to be doomsday here, I just love
everything you just said.
Like is that?
I think some?
There's always a challenge of adifferent age, there's always
challenges, but to me it feelslike information is not as
readily trusted as it was before.
And again, I'm not going to getinto any of the policies or any
(35:54):
of the things, but just I'mspeaking to myself as a creative
person that it just seems likeit's harder to deal with the
world than ever and there alwaysseems to be whether it's an
inflation, or I just got a billtoday from my car insurance, so
like, hey, we're adding $50.
I'm like eggs were like $10instead of two.
(36:14):
There's things that areconstantly shifting and we're
having to then deal with.
I mean, again, it was the lastfew years that we're in.
It was like this is the problem, this is the solution.
It's like oh wait, no, nevermind, that's not the problem,
this is yeah, like what's real.
So to me it's like weultimately and this came through
(36:38):
a very, very powerful healer ofmine and it stuck with me, this
woman named Patrice.
She's amazing and she said thatultimately, in this age of
Aquarius, out of the age ofPisces, is we're actually having
to stitch and create our ownreality and not to be delusional
(36:58):
in that reality.
I'm not saying that, but it'slike I'm noticing that the
leaders that I'm seeing areleaders that are more in smaller
pods or smaller groups, or it'snot so, and that's what feels
so nice about kind of likeleading something like the
artist way, where it's like.
And there's something I do nowbefore I take anyone into any of
(37:22):
my groups, I talk to them foran hour.
First.
I don't just let anyone in.
I think last year there weresome mentally unstable like it
because I didn't, you know, vetanybody coming in.
I was like, oh, it'd be great.
And I'm like, no, I've beenmore boundaries now and I'm
still.
Those doors are really flexible, but I'm putting more time and
(37:42):
more energy to make sure thatit's a safe space and it's like
I learned that and so it's alittle bit harder this year.
It's a little bit, but it'sworth, it's definitely worth it.
So, you know it's it's like,yes, we can be these sensitive
artists and yes, we're.
You want to be creative.
But I also would just say topeople it's like you know, be be
(38:03):
aware and be aware of yoursurroundings and be aware of
things we believe and make surethat we know that it's true for
us and and that it's been a veryinteresting couple of years and
that to know that I'mresponsible for my own reality
has kept me.
It's kept me so sane and I'mnot it's triggered about any of
(38:25):
the noise that's outside of me,because I go do my research and
do my work and I don't arguewith anyone.
I let everyone believe thatthey want to believe, because I
really feel like, as you said,like the groups of people that
we've put together, such reallygood people, because there's
(38:46):
what I love is there's apersonal accountability to them.
And then they're like, oh myGod, I can share this crazy
thought, or I can be this, andpeople around there like, hey, I
feel similarly to you and sothat's, that's something that
I'm this year.
It's like I love that for thosethat come that are new, it's
like we've really established acore group of people that are
(39:10):
awesome, that done this beforeand that you know, and I try to
partner up new people withpeople that have been there
before and it's it's, it's justamazing Like I I, the leading
these types of programs havereally saved my life and also
have made me go.
I don't know if there's anotherway, because you know, like I
(39:35):
have to be able to beresponsible to myself and to my
creativity, and especially asentrepreneurs.
It's like I don't get.
I don't go to some place,somebody for a paycheck.
It's like I'm constantly,always building something new
and each time it's like I got tomake sure that structure of
that, that new organism thatwe're building, is like sound
(40:00):
and and it's just so cool towatch what, and then, from that
safe kind of environment, towatch what's created out of.
That is John Bucadie's work,what he's doing, and like what
you're doing, oh my God.
And then the public thing comesout of it is something that's
(40:20):
really well researched and true,and then we back in a thousand
percent.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Yeah, I mean there's incredibly creative human beings
and good people, like you said,in that group.
I mean, I've been honored andjust just so delighted to be in
that group of people.
And what you said earlier, yes,we are creating our reality.
We have been creating ourreality the whole time.
I just don't think we noticedyou know as much as we do now in
(40:48):
some ways, and so, yes, there'sa collective reality or dream,
like my friend Paul Levy talksabout, and there's, you know,
your individual, like you'resaying, we get to take
responsibility for our ownreality, and that's really what
it's about.
It's like you're not givingyour power away to like, oh,
(41:09):
this person said this, so itmust be this or that.
You know what is your.
It's about discernment, it'sabout what your truth is right,
and so that's what we're gettingto hear as well.
As artists, as creatives, weare taking our creative power
back and we are learning how touse discernment and how we want
to.
You know.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
And have a voice and be willing to argue.
I love like where governmentused to be or things used to be,
where it's like I can disagreewith you and you could disagree
with you and it's not like rightso, and that we can be able to
go like I have a voice.
But I also love collaborationand I also go.
Actually, that's a reallyinteresting thought.
I need to rethink that I couldbe wrong or or I haven't refined
(41:52):
that idea enough and it's likehaving sort of a salon of place
to go like hey, I'm writing thischapter on this book and I need
somebody's feedback.
Will you read it?
I'm directing a music videoright now and the edit isn't
coming together and I let peoplelook at it and go God, that's
not right.
I love that.
(42:13):
I love surrounding myself withcreatives going.
It's just not there or this iswrong.
I need to take it into a newdirection, which I am.
I'm taking it into an entirelynew direction, but having a
space to be able to throw it.
You know, let an idea be bad.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Before I make it good Like that's what's so cool,
rather than being fragile in howwe see ourselves, and rather
than it's like we are sensitivebut not fragile, because I think
sensitive is actually thestrongest thing you can be,
because we're aware and and andfeeling that's, that's courage,
yeah absolutely yeah.
(42:51):
And so I just see like thegreatest albums ever created.
It's usually like artists thatwere like that sucked, no, that
sucked.
You suck Like the Beatles, youknow Radiohead, look at you know
Wilco, look at these these, youknow fluid Mac.
It's like they, these artists,come together and here's the
point.
The second answer to yourquestion about do you want to be
(43:13):
dark?
And then what about thesethings that were created that
were dark and and shadowy?
It's all about is what's thepurpose of it.
Are you doing it consciously?
You know, I think there'sreasons why movies like horror,
movies like hereditary, whichdealt with like family trauma,
and all of that is a differentbrand of movie as opposed to,
(43:36):
like you know, horror porn.
You know there's a reason whythere's, there's fire, you know,
and there's that, it's.
It's to me.
It's just what's the purpose?
Like I'm, is it being doneconsciously?
Am I going to that dark placeto to emulate something so that
(43:58):
people can see, like why doessomebody play the devil?
It's like you're playing thedevil to tell that story, like
you're, you're, you're goingthrough that darkness to
hopefully have a better hope forhumanity, or to that people can
empathize, like playing adepressed person or cuckoo's
nest.
It's like that's part of beingin three dimensional reality is
(44:22):
that there is polarity and sobeing able to embody that and do
it because, to me, as if we'redoing it dark for the sake of
dark, we're doing it forourselves.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
It's selfish.
It's ultimately selfish.
And if we're doing, if we'regoing through it because it's a
gift and it's it's somethingthat we're going there so that
we can help free somebody,because we're doing it as a, as
a gift, it is ultimatelyselfless and it's razor thin the
difference between that.
So is it about you or is itabout you?
(44:58):
Know, it's a universal themethat you're touching and to me
that is the difference.
Yes, so it's really that it'snot the what or the why, it
really is the how, it really ishow we go through that shadow.
That is all the difference.
And if we're doing it and youknow, like hurting ourselves to
(45:22):
do it, then I don't think ithelps anybody.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Yeah, I agree, that's a great way to put it.
I love that, jamie.
I love it.
One question also about okay,so you've been in the spiritual
community, you've been in theacting community, you know you
kind of put those two worldstogether and help people through
your coaching and also yourcreative expressions as well.
(45:53):
But what do you think about?
Like, in the spiritualcommunity there's a thing where
people don't want to see thedark side of things.
They want to stay in the lightall the time.
Have you seen that aspect inthe spiritual community?
Oh, the spiritual bypass.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
The spiritual bypassing.
Yeah, I wish I could play thison your.
It's so funny.
I'll send this to you privately.
It's a little Romdoss talk.
It's like six minutes and hetalks about that, the value of
processing, that we need toprocess our emotions, we need to
(46:30):
know that there's darknessinside of us, we need to know
that there's death and facingall of those things, like we've
got to do this.
But he's like but we can't staythere.
And then there's also the kindof the Buddhist or the like
detachment and the non-emotionalof separation from it and
witnessing it and being detachedfrom it, but we can't stay
(46:52):
there.
Let's say somebody is their kidor a grief happens.
It's like I'm just going to bean equanimity and I'm going to
meditate through it.
It's like I just don't knowthat there's anything valuable
there.
So I really believe that itagain, it's about balance.
(47:13):
It's about balance of we cantell when somebody's just been
kind of privileged andeverything's worked out for them
.
And then they're like oh, it'sso easy to manifest.
And it's like yeah, it was easyto manifest with your trust
fund, like you know what I'msaying, Like let's get real as
opposed to.
I think on some level,manifestation is could be true,
(47:38):
but to me manifestation comesfrom hard work, accountability
and trustability and consistency, and then I think we manifest
something when it has integrity.
That's how I've seen it.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Right.
And so to me, it's like we canall smell when we're being sold
something.
We all can tell when it's notauthentic.
And then there's a weird thingwhere somebody is like, bro,
you're being way too authentic,you're the private, so it's sort
(48:12):
of like this weird balance andI don't know how we do it.
I don't know how we do itbecause there's stuff that's
appropriate and but I also, youknow, I'm of the more of the,
you know, the aquarium coach,not the Pycean coach.
So I share my vulnerabilitieswith the men in my men's group
and my artists way I share whenI'm having a bad day.
(48:34):
I don't always go into details,but I go hey, this has been
really rough for me recently.
Yeah, I'm really doing my bestwith it, and that's never seemed
to turn anybody off.
It actually is a bit of arelief If somebody's like, yeah,
I'm winning, I'm great, I'mthis, oh girl.
(48:54):
And inside I'm just like 17weagles running around, like
it's just like we can becauseI'm a voice coach, like you can
hear it, like you can hear whensomebody's not speaking the
truth, you just feel it.
And so to me it's like I'mdoing this because I'm I know
I'm not consciously lying aboutanything in my life, but I want
(49:17):
to always make sure that I'mbeing as authentic as possible,
and so the spiritual bypassreally robs us of our greatest
gift as a coach, which is thatwe've been through it too.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
We've been through it too.
We've had heartbreak, we'vebeen abandoned, we've worked
through our stuff and hey,here's how you do it.
Somebody described this reallybeautifully like the difference
between a coach and a therapista coach or a sponsor in recovery
.
It's like for a therapist, theydon't want your experience.
(49:53):
Like with my therapists andthat I've worked with, I don't
want their experience.
Right, it creeps me out.
I want their expertise.
Yeah, I don't want to knowanything about my therapist
Right.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
That's the same for me too.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
Actually, Right, Exactly Well you're a therapist,
I'm going to talk and we'regoing to go through, and that's.
I need your expertise and yourdegree on the wall.
That's why I'm here.
If I'm working with a coach or,you know, again, in the 12th
step, recovery, when I'm workingwith a sponsor, I want their
experience and expertise.
(50:28):
But I want to go.
Hey, I said, how did you writethat book?
Yeah, how did you do it?
Jamie, how did you do thatperformance?
How do you do that voice thing?
How do you show up in your life, in men's work?
How did you stay sober?
I then share the allegories ofmy story.
I'd be a terrible therapistbecause I'm constantly making
(50:49):
reference to how I did it.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
Yeah, I'm not a therapist and I don't.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
That's so part of the coaching bypass is.
It's like, actually, yourexperience is what makes you a
good coach.
Hmm, yeah, and you're notsharing out of being, you're
making it about yourself.
You're going hey, you're notalone.
Hey, this is how I did it.
(51:15):
Here's a way and here's how Iwent through a breakup.
Here's how I went through thistrauma.
I remember when I studied withJohn Wymanland.
The reason why I studied withJohn for seven years was because
I was so impressed with how hewas a father to Claire and how
he still was showing up for mewhile he was being this amazing
(51:38):
father and was so human in hisvulnerability and I'm like how
did you do this?
I need to know how you did it.
And so he did the opposite ofthe bypass he actually really
embraced.
The heartbreak and the griefbecame an enormous part of why I
(51:58):
think he's as powerful as of ateacher he is today, and so I
think that those that arebypassing they're only cheating
themselves.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
Yeah, and it's.
It's like you're saying I lovethat and you're saying that
humility, you know, being humbleand being human, you know, is
really what people need for thatconnection.
And you know, for me also, yes,I wanted some.
I want to be coached by someonewho's been through this before
you know and can give me, youknow, some guidance there.
(52:31):
So, yes, I agree with that somuch, and I think there's a lot
of coaches that have notactually had a lot of life
experience yet to go throughsome of those things and they
act like they can help peopleand that's cool too, but you
know, it might not be.
Speaker 2 (52:48):
Wow, it's not that cool.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
I know it's not very cool at all actually.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
Like, as you said, and I was like I don't know if
that's true.
You know, there's a reason why Idon't think I really became
like a coach.
I mean, I was those 14, 2014,.
I assisted essentially for sixyears before I led my own men's
program.
I started my own men's program,I think, at 42, 43, before I
(53:15):
actually kind of knew my assfrom my elbow, like, I mean, I
knew how to be an acting coach,I knew how to do that, I knew
how to be a voice coach and Iwas able to do some career
coaching, but I wasn't able toreally be the kind of life coach
that I am today, an executivecoach that I am today, because
(53:38):
I've helped make multimilliondollar projects happen and
worked with people in piecesthat are on these things, and
it's like, oh, I've done it,enough to go, I have some
experience and I did it while Iwas going through some of the
hardest times of my life andstill was able to do both things
and take care of myself andhave privacy and also be
(53:59):
authentic.
And it's just, it's so nuancedand it's layer by layer.
And then, and also the otherthing I'll share about that is,
I think, patience.
I think it's like none of thishealing and none of this work
has to happen overnight or injust one year.
It's like you know, as MilesDavis said, it takes a long time
(54:21):
to sound like yourself andmaybe when I do the artist's way
this year I might only reallytune up and come in into
integrity around two or threethings tops.
Maybe I'm gonna type without,maybe I'll edit better and do
typos better, maybe I'll be ableto do make sure that I'm
(54:43):
getting my auditions out theremore often.
Like whatever the things are,it's like it doesn't all have to
happen today.
It's like do your best but alsojust know it takes time.
One of my favorite things Iheard from a coach once was we
often overestimate what we canaccomplish in a year, but we
(55:06):
underestimate what we canaccomplish in 10.
Yeah, I remember when you saidthat If I were to, really look
back at 2014 to 2024, which isinteresting that you said that.
It's like, wow, my life ismassively different, my impact
is massively different.
And it's like, whoa, look atall that has been created in
(55:26):
that time and now like oh, myGod it's a new year, what am I
gonna do in this new year?
And it's like, well, what if Iactually looked at it Like, what
do I wanna do these next 10years?
And I think I'd actually bemore connected and deeper and
more calm and actually maybeeven accomplish more next year
if my goal is to be like it'sgonna take 10.
Speaker 1 (55:48):
Yeah, because you're giving yourself space right.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
And know that it's like I gotta start now and this
is not gonna be.
They said it when I remember,when I first got sober they said
you really don't pull your headout of your butt as an addict
for 10 years 14 now.
Yeah, it's been about 10 yearsof sobriety to finally go.
(56:17):
Oh, I'm sober after six months,like, for me, that just wasn't,
even though I didn't drink forsix months.
It just took time to heal andto live in this new energy.
And that takes it just takestime and it's painful.
It's really painful, but it'sso worth it, because the other
pain is like the groundhog day.
(56:38):
I'm back doing the same shitover and over again, and to me,
that's why, like the lotusflower, the lotus flower is
connected to that beautifulflower.
It grows out of shit.
Speaker 1 (56:54):
Right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:55):
So if you wanna put this beautiful stuff out on the
world, you gotta be connected toyour shit.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
I like that and I like how you said it takes a
long time to find your voice.
Miles Davis said that.
Right, is that what?
Speaker 2 (57:09):
you.
Was that the chorus?
It takes a long time to soundlike yourself.
Speaker 1 (57:11):
To sound like yourself.
That's it, yes, and I'veexperienced that and I know in
what I wonder sometimes like whydoes it take us so long to
sound like ourselves?
Because we should have beenable to sound like ourselves
from day one, but it just takesas long as it takes, I guess.
(57:31):
But yes, I've been on thisjourney myself.
Speaker 2 (57:33):
It just takes a minute.
There's an artist right now,this guy named, I think, oliver
Anthony.
He has a song out calledNorthman, north of Richmond, and
he wrote a song and again, nottaking political, but the song
is so riveting and itencapsulate, it was like.
But he was probably playingmusic for 20 years, you know.
(57:54):
Just, he does put it on theinternet and then it's his over
sensation, but it's like itwasn't, like he just learned to
play the song that day and nowthe song is out.
It's like we're going throughthis the whole time, and maybe
it's not that it's taking youalong to sound like yourself.
It's that maybe you haven't yetaligned fully to the audience
that you're meant to have.
(58:14):
I think you sound a lot likeyourself, as I do too.
It's just who knows who'slistening and what when the
world really needs our voice.
So we have to constantly becultivating it over time, and
the people that I admire are thepeople who are truly dedicated
(58:34):
to being a good person and agood creator, and those two
things are one and the same.
Speaker 1 (58:39):
Yeah, I love that.
Well, let's make sure that wetalk about the artist's way and
just give everybody just an ideaof what that is and when it's
happening and all the details.
Speaker 2 (58:52):
I extended it a week, the starting of it, just
because the first day is the dayright after New Year's, yeah
right, and I just was feeling alittle bit of pressure and I
wanted to give space.
I ended up moving the workshopto the end of March, so it's
Tuesday nights 6 pm Pacific time.
It's about 75 minutes.
So it'll be guest teachers.
(59:12):
It's going to be amazing of thepeople we had.
Speaker 1 (59:16):
I'll be teaching.
Speaker 2 (59:17):
You will be guest teachers.
And so will John Bukhati, andso will Brie, and I have a few
others, and then there's a Zoomopen room that people anyone can
join, that we write in in themorning, but it can be it's open
24 hours.
And then we'll have writingbuddies and I'll partner people
(59:39):
up to have accountability.
Speaker 1 (59:41):
You say writing buddies.
Speaker 2 (59:42):
And then a three-day workshop in Ohio.
Yeah, you can even.
It's just like a WhatsApp soyou can just say, hey, I did my
writing.
It's like a dailyaccountability to your person.
I've found that that reallyhelped, and helps to have an
accountability buddy.
But it's just meeting withartists and going through each
chapter per week, so it lasts atotal of 13 weeks because
(01:00:06):
there's the introduction andthen it goes to the end of March
.
There's it's a 2,500 foreverything, so it's the catering
in the final workshop, if youwell get into the workshop later
.
Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
You would spend that much just on a retreat, you know
.
Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Yeah, I know, I know it's three months, You're
getting both.
You had a one-on-one sessionwith me but yeah, it's 13 calls
and a retreat for 2,500.
Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
That's amazing.
And then you I just love theaccountability.
You kind of cut out a littlebit.
That's why I wanted you torepeat that.
But the accountability buddy isgreat because you get the extra
support from people and thatconnection from people in the
group as well, and it's just anamazing program.
And the fact that you offer thewriting every morning too,
(01:00:59):
that's incredible.
I mean, I don't know if peopleunderstand how much time you put
into this and how much youoffer, but it is a big deal and
that's a lot, a lot of support.
So, if you're listening andyou're wanting to write a book,
this is how I started my book.
I just started writing everyday, every morning, started with
morning pages, if you'refamiliar with the artist's way,
(01:01:22):
and it really facilitated thatfor me and my ability to be
creative that way.
So I highly recommend, ifyou're working on a creative
project or you just wanna kindof you know, clear the clutter
for the new year, this is aperfect opportunity to do it.
Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Oh, it's the best New Year's resolution there is,
because it actually hassustenance to it and it's like
and we hold you accountable, andthis is the fourth year I've
done it, so I've gotten reallylike clear, like I know how to
run it and it almost runs itself, if in a way now, because the
(01:02:01):
people that have joined havejoined again, keep joining again
, and so it's just like thefirst year I was like what am I
doing?
And like thank you for fumblingthrough it with me the first
time.
But now it's like a reallywell-willed machine and we will
serve you guys and I would loveany of your people.
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
Yeah, well, thank you , jamie.
Thanks for coming on.
And where can they sign up forthat?
Do you have a website they cango to?
I can leave it in the shownotes as well.
Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Yeah, there you have the link that I sent you and you
could also go throughjaymeowallrubcom and you can
sign up through that.
You can do a free consultationwith me.
You want to talk to me about itone-on-one, if it's right for
you, and I'm looking forward toit.
We begin January 9th.
Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
Awesome Thanks.
Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
Jamie, all right, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Allison, your life is your greatest work of art and
it all relates back to the samefinesse, the same finesse, the
same finesse, the same finesse.
Thank you.
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