November 26, 2024 • 33 mins
In this month's instalment of 'Soulful Chats' I am joined by my colleague, Clinical Psychologist, Veronica Beeson.
Join us as Veronica discusses her journey with spirituality, including some personal experiences with Spirit, the transformative power of yoga as a spiritual practice and the value of showing up authentically in our therapeutic practices.
Veronica can be reached at: deverneuilpsychology.com
Veronica's Recommendation:
Yoga with Adriene Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/yogawithadriene
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You can now send me your comments or questions, to hello@integratedwisdom.com.au or you can also find me on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/integrated_wisdom/
Intro and Outro music: Inspiring Morning by Playsound
Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be treated as psychological treatment or to replace the need for psychological treatment.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tatiana (00:00):
Welcome to the Integrated Wisdom Podcast.
I am your host, Tatyana DaSilva.
Join me as we discuss what itmeans to live an integrated life
and explore ways for you tocreate a life filled with
greater meaning, peace, andconnection by integrating the
wisdom of spirituality,psychology, Neuroscience,
(00:26):
Epigenetics and EnergyPsychology are hoped to empower
you to create deeper and moreloving connections with yourself
and others, whilst also pavingthe way for humanity at large to
be reimagined and inspired tobecome the very best version of
itself.
(00:50):
Hello, and welcome to theIntegrated Wisdom Podcast.
Thank you so much for joining mefor yet another week.
Today I have the very popularmonthly.
Installments of soulful chats.
And I'm very excited to sharewith you a colleague of mine,
Veronica Beeson, who's aclinical psychologist.
(01:10):
She's been working in privatepractice and is very passionate
about creating a nurturing spacefor her clients so that they can
embrace their authenticity andgrow in all aspects of their
lives.
As a naturally curious person,she has always been drawn
towards psychology andspirituality in learning more
and learning more about thehuman experience.
(01:31):
Veronica has been working withclients as a psychologist since
2015, but her interest inspirituality predates this by
decades.
Some of her earliest memoriesare of spiritual experiences.
Through her work, Veronica hopesto de pathologize people's
experiences of spirituality in away that is ethical and
maintains a solid grounding inscience and evidence based
practice.
(01:52):
So I'm very excited to have thischat.
Thank you so much for joiningme, Veronica.
Welcome.
Veronica (01:55):
too.
Tatiana (01:59):
Yeah.
And I should probably point outto our listeners as well that We
met each other through mycourse, you joined the first of
my course, and you've been amember of my membership that's
been going on since then.
And so we've been having lots ofconversations about
spirituality, your spiritualjourney.
And I thought it would bereally, um, a wonderful
opportunity to have thelisteners of this podcast, get
(02:21):
some insights into some of theexperiences that you've had that
have been really,
Veronica (02:24):
was an excellent course.
Um, I got lots and lots of stuffout of it and that's why I've
joined the peer supervision andthat's been really interesting
and I've gotten lots out of thatas well.
So yeah.
So I'm sure a lot of the thingsthat we talk about is probably
not going to be new to you, butyeah.
And I'm very excited aboutsharing some of it.
Tatiana (02:46):
No, thank you.
And I, I think this, thissegment is actually quite
popular with listeners becauseit is highlighting, individual
psychologists, our own personalexperience with spirituality and
how they've made peace withintegrating those two sides of
themselves.
And I know from our chats thatyou have so many beautiful
insights and experiences to
Veronica (03:07):
Yeah,
Tatiana (03:11):
So why don't we start with that?
Maybe sharing with our listenersa little bit about what first
sparked your interest inspirituality.
Veronica (03:17):
I feel like it's been with me my whole life, like
right from when I was little,um, uh, so I've, I've told you
about this memory, but one ofthe memories that really stand
out for me was when I was quiteyoung, um, I'm not sure exactly,
but maybe four or five yearsold.
Like somewhere between five toseven, maybe, um, around that
age, I know the house that ithappened in.
(03:39):
So I know it was around thattime.
Um, yeah, where I woke up in themiddle of the night and there
was this beautiful older lady,um, standing by my bed.
Um, and she was, it was like shewas glowing and she just gave me
this really beautiful, warmfeeling.
Um, yeah.
And she looked like my gran.
(03:59):
So that was the first thing Iwas like, my gran's here.
Um, And I said, Hello, Gran.
And she, she smiled at me, andshe just disappeared.
And she left me with this reallyreally warm feeling of safety.
Um, I think, like, the wholememory is really vivid for me,
(04:20):
but I think the feeling ofwarmth I have associated with
that memory is the thing thatstands out the most.
And it really, really It, um,took me a little while to put
the pieces of the puzzletogether.
I think it was years later whereI was like looking at pictures
and I realized it wasn't mygran, it was my gran's mom.
(04:40):
Um, so my mom's.
grandmother on my mother's side,um, great grandmother Jean, who
I didn't really know because shelived interstate.
And I was able to confirm withmy mum that she did actually
pass around that time.
So that was kind of likeinteresting, validating
confirmation for me around thatexperience.
But yeah, like I think that'sthe thing that stands out.
Tatiana (05:04):
What a beautiful introduction to that concept
that there's a spiritual elementto life,
Veronica (05:09):
So I think that that's always shaped my, um, yeah, my
ideas around spirituality andthese ideas of life after death
and this, this idea that lifegoes on.
Tatiana (05:23):
Yeah, fantastic.
So when you decided to startexploring the spiritual concepts
a little bit more deeply, whatwere some of the first, I guess,
concepts that you, you chose tobegin that journey
Veronica (05:35):
Um, so, uh, I was raised in a Christian household,
so we did go to, go to church,uh, so a lot of my earlier
spiritual concepts was aroundChristianity and the church, but
it was very interesting becausemy, my parents.
Both of the relationships withtheir spirituality and their
(05:57):
religion were shifting as theywere raising us.
So from around 10, I think theywere starting to, like, their
ideas were starting to move alittle bit more away from
organised religion.
And they gave us a choice, like,when I was 10 they said, Do you
want to keep going to church?
And I was like, No, I want mySunday sleep ins back.
(06:17):
Um.
Yeah, so I think, um, I stillbroadly identified as Christian,
um, until a little bit laterwhere I've moved a little bit
away from organized religion andhave a little bit more of a, I
think a broader, like, I guess,a spiritual identity.
(06:40):
Um, like when I was 18, that wasa real big, big time for me,
like, in terms of, like,shifting.
Um, I was, yeah, I, I, I wasstruggling a bit.
I was, uh, I had some depressionand anxiety and I, I think I was
searching and feeling quite lostat the time.
(07:02):
Um, and I probably could havebenefited from, like, from some
psychologies from counseling,but it didn't, um, really fit
for me in terms of where Iwanted to go exploring.
So I found a couple of groups.
One was a like spiritualmeditation women's group, and
the other one was a.
(07:23):
Yoga.
And, um, like both of them wereactually really lovely and like
really safe spaces from it forme and they were really able to
hold me, um, in developing likea bit of a, like a bit of a
shift around my ideas aroundspirituality.
(07:44):
Like I decided, I started to,um, develop a really regular
yoga practice and meditationpractice.
And through that, um, Like Ireally kind of shifted away from
organized religion and more intothis broader sense of Yeah, I
don't know this broaderconnection with the universe.
(08:04):
I guess like is the best way todescribe it Yeah, and I had some
really beautiful, vividmeditation experiences, um,
through that.
And, um, it was, it wasincredibly helpful for me and
sort of in shifting andtransforming, like, and, um,
(08:27):
growing, uh, you know, like at atime when I was feeling quite
stuck, uh, and was likestruggling a little bit with my
mental health.
And it really kind of helpedpush me through that.
Tatiana (08:39):
Yeah, how beautiful.
And it's so interesting.
Uh, I think you'll recall someof the research that we've been,
we've spoken about throughoutthis year that particularly Dr.
Lisa Miller, she's beendemonstrating, right?
Like it's not uncommon for youngadults around that 18, 19, um,
age to have a bout of depressionor anxiety.
And it's usually, uh, a deepercalling or, uh, an aching for a
(09:04):
spiritual connection.
Right.
And so it's quite fascinatingthat that's been your experience
Veronica (09:10):
absolutely.
Like, I just remember that somuch and, um, like, still
holding a few of these, like,these traditional religious
beliefs that I was growing upin, but sort of wrestling.
with them quite a bit.
And it was so, it was, it wasterrifying.
It felt like I was like losing alittle bit of like my footing or
(09:34):
my grounding, I guess, um, to beable to step away from that and,
and think, you know what, it'sokay that there's, there's parts
of this that no longer fit forme.
Um, that, you know, it's okayfor me to forge my own path and
develop ideas, um, around myspirituality that like, you
(09:54):
know, that are deeply personaland, uh, mine, you know, don't
belong to anybody else.
Tatiana (10:02):
And so for your perspective and your own
personal experience, what haveyou found to be the benefits of
incorporating, I guess, thatspiritual lens or, uh, spiritual
perspective into your life on,on that
Veronica (10:15):
Um, oh, there's, there's so, there's so much, um,
my meditation and my yogapractice is incredibly important
for me.
And for me getting on my mat,it's not, it's not just about
doing the stretches or theasanas or the poses.
It's, um, really.
(10:36):
It really is about, um, myconnection to self and
connection to something bigger.
So it really is a spiritualexperience for me every time I
get on my mat and do my yoga.
Um, we always grow when weembark on a spiritual path,
particularly if we're willing tobe flexible and open in what
(11:00):
comes.
Um, like if, if I am strugglingwith anything, I'll meditate on
it.
And, you know, I really want,when I go into a meditation, I
really want to be flexible andopen and leave my judgments,
expectations at the door.
And, um, you know, just bereally open to what pops in for
(11:24):
me.
And, Often the things that popin for me are just new insights,
just a different way of lookingat the situation.
Um, you know, sometimes it'shard truths.
Sometimes it's, you know, thingsthat I need to look at, like in
terms of myself and my habitsand, um, stuff that needs to
shift and change.
(11:46):
Uh, but it's always like, italways feels like it's coming
from a really loving and areally nurturing place.
Uh, yeah, and it's, it's justthat opportunity to, to grow and
learn about myself and, um, be,be open to tapping into, you
(12:06):
know, for me, it is about liketapping into something deeper
within the universe, but it'salso about tapping into
different parts of self that Iwouldn't normally have access
to.
And that's always going to bebeneficial for growth.
Tatiana (12:20):
Yeah.
100%.
I say this all the time that Ithink the spiritual path that
we're all on is one is one ofevolution.
It's one of growth, right?
Personal growth.
And so we were here to grow inlots of different ways,
emotionally, psychologically,but also spiritually.
And you're right.
Like all these different facetsare like.
(12:42):
They help us deepen thatunderstanding and just, and
shake off the stuff that doesn'tfit as we go through the path
doesn't, isn't it?
Veronica (12:50):
absolutely.
Tatiana (12:52):
Um, so have you found that having this, I guess,
perspective, the spiritualperspective has enhanced your
work as a psychologist in anyway?
Veronica (13:05):
like I, I do, I mean, I don't think it's necessary,
but like, I do think it hashelped me personally to be more
nonjudgmental and more curiousand more open, um, and hopefully
create a space where my clientscan just, show up and, um, you
(13:27):
know, it's a safe space for myclients to share their beliefs
and their ideas about the world,which is, you know, everyone's
spiritual journey.
Like if they are on that path,it's so deeply personal and so
deeply important to people.
Um, and I really, think thatit's, it's really important in
the work that we're doing whenwe're creating this sacred space
(13:50):
for clients, that they, theyfeel safe to share all parts of
themselves and all parts oftheir journey with religion and
I re or spirituality.
And I really do try and, youknow, like see the common
threads in what people areexperiences.
experiencing, um, yeah, withouthaving any judgments about what,
(14:14):
um, lens that they are applyingto it because there's so many
common threads like through,through different religions and
through people's spiritual pathsthat it doesn't actually always
matter what modality thatthey're drawn to.
Um, so I think having my ownspiritual journey has helped me,
(14:34):
yeah, just be open to meetpeople where they're at, um, in
the therapy room.
Yeah.
Tatiana (14:42):
Yeah, fantastic.
Um, we've, I mean, I know youand I have spoken about this
offline and it's something thatI speak to.
I would.
Other psychologists that havethis spiritual leaning as well
about, um, but in ourprofession, particularly in
Australia, there's a lot of fearof, of embracing our spiritual
(15:03):
side, right?
Like there's, uh, almost this,it feels like a taboo topic.
Like we have to hide in ourlittle closets.
Um, and obviously you're at apoint where you, you've, you've
made a, you've made a Um, a lotof work to reconcile those two
aspects of yourself.
Was there a period where youfelt that fear of like being a
Veronica (15:24):
Absolutely.
Tatiana (15:25):
element?
Veronica (15:26):
Um, and it's still a work in progress.
So, like, I remember being atuniversity and, um, really
loving, like, I love learningand I really loved the subjects
that I was learning and I lovedlearning about the science of it
all and, um, you know, that,that was, It's something that
like I really enjoyed and then Iwould go and I don't know, go to
(15:50):
like full moon drumming nights,like, you know, and like
experience a different part ofmyself on weekends.
And it really did feel like, um,yeah, like there was two
different parts of myself andtwo different worlds that would
never actually meet.
there was absolutely a fearthere that, um, you know, if
people knew that I was aspiritual person, that there'd
(16:12):
be some sort of judgment aboutme not being able to sit with
science and sit with evidencebased practice, which is
absolutely not the case at all.
Um, but I think that is thereason why I've like, For the
longest time, kept those partsof myself quite separate.
Tatiana (16:32):
Yes.
So what did you do or how didyou overcome that fear?
Veronica (16:37):
One of the values that I really, really want to embody
in my practice is authenticity.
Um, you know, and we don't, wedon't share everything about
ourselves in our sessions, butwe, it is really important that
like, if we're going to embody avalue, that's important to us
that we're embodying it in allaspects of our life.
Um, and like, Reflecting on whoI want to be as a psychologist
(17:03):
and wanting to be an authenticperson is one of the things that
has pushed me to talk about myspirituality a little bit more
because it's such an importantpart of who I am.
So, you know, um, it's notsomething that I want to keep
compartmentalizing and leavingat the door.
Tatiana (17:23):
Mm.
Yeah.
100%.
Uh, so I mean, I guess I'massuming from your answer that
you obviously see value in us aspsychologists and therapists
embracing this spiritual side ofourselves, but aside from the
authenticity and being able toshow up more fully, um, as
(17:43):
ourselves, what else, what othervalues do you think being able
to embrace that in our work orat the very least being able to
tap into that curiosity forthose.
Who are listening in that maybefurther back in this journey,
right?
Like that still, they'recurious, but don't maybe know
where to start or are stillscared to start exploring that
part of themselves.
What value would you say, um,pursuing
Veronica (18:05):
just, you just always going to learn about yourself.
I've had experience withorganized religion, um, and not
all of them have been positive.
And I know a lot of people havehad experiences with organized
religion, which, you know, somepeople it's been, you know,
really fits for them and it'sgreat.
But when you have like anegative experience of, um,
(18:26):
maybe spirituality or religionor religious trauma, um, it can
really, you know, create abarrier.
But what I want to People toknow is, you know, you can go on
a spiritual journey.
That's yours and belongs to you.
And it doesn't matter what itlooks like anybody else.
(18:50):
Um, you know, that, if you'recurious about this, be curious,
explore, read up, meditate, youknow, do engage in mindfulness,
go in nature.
It doesn't have to, you don'thave to put labels on what
you're, you know, what you'reexperiencing.
Um, but just.
(19:11):
You know, just, just createsomething in your life that, you
know, that is around, um, havingsome sort of communion with
self.
And, you know, you don't have toget bogged down on what that
looks like and what, whatlabels, you know, are attached
to that.
Tatiana (19:30):
Yeah.
100%.
Um, if you had to pick onetransformative aspect of
embracing spirituality morefully, both on a personal and a
professional level, what aspectwould you say that would be for
you?
Yes.
Veronica (19:47):
so, I think the first one that comes to mind is
always, like, developing thatcompassion for self and others.
Um, but apart from that, um,there was a quote.
He's actually a yoga instructorwhere this quote came from.
And it's kind of always stuckwith me, um, in embodying like
(20:10):
why, why spirituality is just soimportant.
Um, and I'm probably not goingto get the quote a hundred
percent right, but that's okay.
It was something along the linesof, um, we often associate
progress with action whenthere's so much to be gained
from stillness.
And the reason why that standsout so much is like we're in, we
(20:33):
live in such a busy world where,um, there's lots of value
attached to being busy andthere's lots of value attached
to, you know, the doing and theproducing.
But I know, um, You know, someof my, like my growth, um, my
(20:55):
most beautiful transformativeexperiences, the, the things
that have like so many of thethings that have been really
life enhancing for me has beenin the stillness, has been in a
meditation.
Um, you know, and other peopleare not going to see it.
They're not going to know, um,what that looks like.
(21:16):
Uh, but like.
You know, yes, like it's, it'simportant that we produce here,
but it needs to be balanced.
And, um, a lot of the work, alot of the growth that you're
going to experience in your lifehere, it is going to be around
the going.
The going inwards and thelooking inwards and the making
space away from the busyness oflife to do that.
Tatiana (21:40):
100%.
And I, like, I believe as wellthat the reason so many people
are struggling with that, thatsense of disconnection, that
sense of existential angst isbecause of that, like, there's
many reasons for it, but I thinkthat's definitely one of them,
right?
Like we're so conditioned tojust being busy and not tuning
into ourselves, not allowingthat connection.
(22:01):
Guidance to come in because ouris so externalized, um, and
we're all suffering for it.
So, yeah, I think that's abeautiful
Veronica (22:11):
Yeah.
I think, yeah, it's a little bitof that internalized capitalism,
like, you know, that we, ourvalue is in the doing, but, you
know, our worth actually doesn'tchange whether we're doing or
not.
Our worth is just our worth.
We just are, and we can sit inthe being, and we should be
sitting in the being a lot more.
Tatiana (22:31):
We might even find that our productivity or our output
is so much better, right?
If when it's coming from thatconnected and aligned place.
Um, yeah.
Uh, and so I guess on a finalnote, uh, this conversation has
been so, so lovely.
Uh, but I have this, thisquestion.
I guess a ritual tradition withmy guests where I get them to
(22:54):
share with the audience arecommendation for a spiritual
book that was transformative foryou in your journey to aid those
that are curious about exploringthese topics more deeply and
where they might want to start.
So would you, do you have anybooks that you might want to
Veronica (23:10):
look, and I was dreading this question because,
um, there have been books, uh,that I really loved and were
really important to me at thetime.
And then I kind of revisited andthere's, there were aspects of
them that just no longer fit,um, for me.
So instead of recommending abook, I'm going to recommend a
(23:31):
person.
Um, Her name's Adrienne Mishlerand she's actually a yoga, um,
instructor and she puts out alot of free yoga material on
YouTube.
So she's free, she's easilyaccessible and, um, there's a
lot of things that, um, youknow, that, that, that she
creates accessibility aroundability as well.
(23:53):
Uh, but I just, she justembodies.
love, compassion, and selfnurturing.
she's really, really special.
Um, there's a couple of thingsthat she says that really kind
of stand out for me.
One is, Move like you loveyourself.
(24:15):
Um, so I really, really lovethis because I know developing
self compassion is somethingthat so many of us really
struggle with.
It's, it's, it's hard to, toshift, um, the way we feel about
ourselves.
But, but I love, I love thewords move, move like you love
yourself because it gives you aplace to start, like you don't
(24:38):
have to already be there tostart embodying that, like, you
know, what would your life looklike if you moved through it,
like you loved yourself, youknow, and what does that look
like even in the smaller momentswhen you're doing the dishes or
when you're making yourself acup of tea, like, what does
moving like you love yourselflook like, And then the other
(24:58):
thing she really, um, she says alot is intention over shape.
And obviously she's saying thatin terms of your yoga practice,
um, because everybody's shapelooks different when they're on
the mat.
Like, you know, we need toforget about, um, doing this,
the asanas correctly.
Um, you know, Every, everybody'sbody moves differently.
(25:19):
We're all at different,different places when she says
that she's, you know, it's aboutmoving into your body and
feeling into your body about,you know, what the yoga practice
feels like.
And I just think that that issuch a beautiful analogy for
life, like trying something new,um, you know, when you're, when
(25:41):
you wanted to make a change inyour life or what you wouldn't,
when you wanted to go forsomething, you know, we have.
we have fears around what that'sgoing to look like.
Um, and sometimes that can getin the way where, you know,
that, that important, that ideaaround intention over, overshape
is like, you know what, I'm notgoing to have all the answers
(26:04):
for this in the beginning.
You know, I'm going to set myintentions about it and I'm
going to move and I'm going toact, but I don't know how this
is going to take shape.
Tatiana (26:16):
Yeah.
Gorgeous.
I'm going to put a link to inthe show notes to her YouTube
channel.
This is yoga with Adriane.
Veronica (26:22):
Mm
Tatiana (26:23):
Yeah, no, she's beautiful.
Yeah.
I'll add a link to her YouTubechannel in the, in the show
notes, but I also wanted to justcircle back to what you started
with, which was it was hard torecommend a book because.
Books often don't always fit youagain when you, when you've
moved on in your journey.
And I think that's a reallyimportant topic to, to just
(26:45):
highlight for people becausethis is true.
Like I think we, we encounterthese lessons or teachers where
we need them, but as we continueto develop and grow, we outgrow
some of those lessons becausethat process of evolution is
continuous, right?
And I think you've highlightedthat so beautifully, but we
(27:06):
just.
Moved on to the next thing and Ireally wanted to,
Veronica (27:09):
Yeah, and I guess there can be a little bit of
disappointment around thatsometimes, um, you know, I have
had, you know, I've metteachers, I've, I've, um, like,
you know, found YouTubepersonalities and, like, writers
where, you know, like at thetime it was just, what they were
saying was just revolutionaryfor me and spoke to my soul.
(27:32):
And then sometimes there issomething that doesn't fit, but
I think that that's actually areally, really good thing.
Um, it stops us from getting,um, trapped into this idea that
one person has all of theanswers, um, which is, you know,
quite problematic.
Like, I like the idea that I cantake what fits, um, from certain
(27:53):
people and.
Leave the rest.
Um, and I think there is a bitof safety in that as well.
Like, you know, that I like toresearch broadly Consume a lot
of content, but if it doesn'tfit for me, like if not all of
it fits, that's actually okayYou know, I can just I can just
leave the bits that don't fitYeah.
Tatiana (28:15):
Yeah, 100%.
And I think that it goes theother way as well.
Like sometimes you encountersomething that you're not yet
ready for.
And so you're going to be like,I can't, this doesn't resonate
for me, but as you've done somemore of that developing and
growing, you can go back tothat, to that and it all of a
sudden connects.
So I think that just beautifullyhighlights the fact that we need
(28:36):
to be open and flexible to, youknow, growth journey, right.
And, and recognize that we dobetter when we know better.
Yeah, which is what you'retalking about.
Like you sometimes resonate withsomething that isn't necessarily
great in the big scheme ofthings, but there's still
something, there's like a pearlof wisdom in everything I think
we can, we can potentially find.
(28:57):
Um, but then when you knowbetter, you can look back and
go, okay, well, not all of thatwas actually ideal.
Um, but also as we grow, webecome more ready to, to absorb,
I guess, a higher level ofinsight or perspective.
Um, Yeah, this whole process,right?
It's what makes it infuriating,but also beautiful.
Veronica (29:19):
know, you're getting all these beautiful insights and
then, you know, everythingright?
No, not at all.
Yeah, but
Tatiana (29:29):
Exactly.
I don't think we can learneverything in one
Veronica (29:32):
absolutely not.
Um, so yeah, like the more, themore you pull at a particular
thread, The more questions thereare going to be, um, but like
that is a beautiful part ofbeing human, um, you know,
sitting with the not knowingeverything and, you know, that
we, we learn, we grow, we absorbknowledge, but we also have to
(29:53):
give up, um, the need forcontrol over, like, having all
of the answers and what theknowledge looks like.
Yeah.
Tatiana (30:05):
Absolutely.
So much easier said than done,right?
But absolutely true.
Oh, thank you so much, Veronica.
I really enjoyed thisconversation.
I think you've highlighted somereally important points for
people.
Um, and yeah, reinforced somethings that I really Uh, helpful
for people to keep in mind whenthey're going through this
(30:25):
journey of, um, connecting withtheir spirituality or trying to
integrate it into their lives ortheir work a little bit more.
So I'm so grateful for youagreeing to come on and
Veronica (30:35):
Thank you.
Thank you for the opportunity.
It's been lovely.
Tatiana (30:38):
yeah.
Now, would you like to justmaybe let our listeners know
where they can connect with youif they
Veronica (30:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, so I'm at a group privatepractice.
Um, it's called DivernialPsychology.
So it's a bit of a mouthful.
D E V for Victor, ERN, forNovember, EUIL psychology.
Um, I think the website's, deverpsychology.com au.
(31:05):
I think it's a very easy one,but it'll be in the notes
anyway.
Uh, yeah, so I'm just in, uh,like northern suburbs of Perth.
It's a suburb called Clarkson.
And yeah, people will be able toconnect with me through that
website.
Tatiana (31:22):
well, that's great.
I'll add all of that informationin the short notes.
Um, so anyone who's interestedand lives out that way, uh, and
is looking, I think sometimespeople are looking for a
psychologist that will allowthem to go to those places as
well and explore theirspirituality.
In a way that feels safe tothem, but we don't know where to
start or they, they're tooscared to bring it up.
(31:44):
So for those that are listening,either as a consumer or as a
psychologist who may haveclients that are looking for
that, um, you would be a
Veronica (31:53):
thank you very much, yeah, no, I appreciate that, mm,
Tatiana (31:58):
Yeah.
All right.
Well, thank you so much again,Veronica.
And thank you all everyone forlistening.
I hope you all have a lovelyweek and we'll speak
Veronica (32:05):
thanks, Tethya.
Tatiana (32:06):
Bye.
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(32:27):
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(00:26):
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(00:50):
Hello, and welcome to theIntegrated Wisdom Podcast.
Thank you so much for joining mefor yet another week.
Today I have the very popularmonthly.
Installments of soulful chats.
And I'm very excited to sharewith you a colleague of mine,
Veronica Beeson, who's aclinical psychologist.
(01:10):
She's been working in privatepractice and is very passionate
about creating a nurturing spacefor her clients so that they can
embrace their authenticity andgrow in all aspects of their
lives.
As a naturally curious person,she has always been drawn
towards psychology andspirituality in learning more
and learning more about thehuman experience.
(01:31):
Veronica has been working withclients as a psychologist since
2015, but her interest inspirituality predates this by
decades.
Some of her earliest memoriesare of spiritual experiences.
Through her work, Veronica hopesto de pathologize people's
experiences of spirituality in away that is ethical and
maintains a solid grounding inscience and evidence based
practice.
(01:52):
So I'm very excited to have thischat.
Thank you so much for joiningme, Veronica.
Welcome.
Veronica (01:55):
too.
Tatiana (01:59):
Yeah.
And I should probably point outto our listeners as well that We
met each other through mycourse, you joined the first of
my course, and you've been amember of my membership that's
been going on since then.
And so we've been having lots ofconversations about
spirituality, your spiritualjourney.
And I thought it would bereally, um, a wonderful
opportunity to have thelisteners of this podcast, get
(02:21):
some insights into some of theexperiences that you've had that
have been really,
Veronica (02:24):
was an excellent course.
Um, I got lots and lots of stuffout of it and that's why I've
joined the peer supervision andthat's been really interesting
and I've gotten lots out of thatas well.
So yeah.
So I'm sure a lot of the thingsthat we talk about is probably
not going to be new to you, butyeah.
And I'm very excited aboutsharing some of it.
Tatiana (02:46):
No, thank you.
And I, I think this, thissegment is actually quite
popular with listeners becauseit is highlighting, individual
psychologists, our own personalexperience with spirituality and
how they've made peace withintegrating those two sides of
themselves.
And I know from our chats thatyou have so many beautiful
insights and experiences to
Veronica (03:07):
Yeah,
Tatiana (03:11):
So why don't we start with that?
Maybe sharing with our listenersa little bit about what first
sparked your interest inspirituality.
Veronica (03:17):
I feel like it's been with me my whole life, like
right from when I was little,um, uh, so I've, I've told you
about this memory, but one ofthe memories that really stand
out for me was when I was quiteyoung, um, I'm not sure exactly,
but maybe four or five yearsold.
Like somewhere between five toseven, maybe, um, around that
age, I know the house that ithappened in.
(03:39):
So I know it was around thattime.
Um, yeah, where I woke up in themiddle of the night and there
was this beautiful older lady,um, standing by my bed.
Um, and she was, it was like shewas glowing and she just gave me
this really beautiful, warmfeeling.
Um, yeah.
And she looked like my gran.
(03:59):
So that was the first thing Iwas like, my gran's here.
Um, And I said, Hello, Gran.
And she, she smiled at me, andshe just disappeared.
And she left me with this reallyreally warm feeling of safety.
Um, I think, like, the wholememory is really vivid for me,
(04:20):
but I think the feeling ofwarmth I have associated with
that memory is the thing thatstands out the most.
And it really, really It, um,took me a little while to put
the pieces of the puzzletogether.
I think it was years later whereI was like looking at pictures
and I realized it wasn't mygran, it was my gran's mom.
(04:40):
Um, so my mom's.
grandmother on my mother's side,um, great grandmother Jean, who
I didn't really know because shelived interstate.
And I was able to confirm withmy mum that she did actually
pass around that time.
So that was kind of likeinteresting, validating
confirmation for me around thatexperience.
But yeah, like I think that'sthe thing that stands out.
Tatiana (05:04):
What a beautiful introduction to that concept
that there's a spiritual elementto life,
Veronica (05:09):
So I think that that's always shaped my, um, yeah, my
ideas around spirituality andthese ideas of life after death
and this, this idea that lifegoes on.
Tatiana (05:23):
Yeah, fantastic.
So when you decided to startexploring the spiritual concepts
a little bit more deeply, whatwere some of the first, I guess,
concepts that you, you chose tobegin that journey
Veronica (05:35):
Um, so, uh, I was raised in a Christian household,
so we did go to, go to church,uh, so a lot of my earlier
spiritual concepts was aroundChristianity and the church, but
it was very interesting becausemy, my parents.
Both of the relationships withtheir spirituality and their
(05:57):
religion were shifting as theywere raising us.
So from around 10, I think theywere starting to, like, their
ideas were starting to move alittle bit more away from
organised religion.
And they gave us a choice, like,when I was 10 they said, Do you
want to keep going to church?
And I was like, No, I want mySunday sleep ins back.
(06:17):
Um.
Yeah, so I think, um, I stillbroadly identified as Christian,
um, until a little bit laterwhere I've moved a little bit
away from organized religion andhave a little bit more of a, I
think a broader, like, I guess,a spiritual identity.
(06:40):
Um, like when I was 18, that wasa real big, big time for me,
like, in terms of, like,shifting.
Um, I was, yeah, I, I, I wasstruggling a bit.
I was, uh, I had some depressionand anxiety and I, I think I was
searching and feeling quite lostat the time.
(07:02):
Um, and I probably could havebenefited from, like, from some
psychologies from counseling,but it didn't, um, really fit
for me in terms of where Iwanted to go exploring.
So I found a couple of groups.
One was a like spiritualmeditation women's group, and
the other one was a.
(07:23):
Yoga.
And, um, like both of them wereactually really lovely and like
really safe spaces from it forme and they were really able to
hold me, um, in developing likea bit of a, like a bit of a
shift around my ideas aroundspirituality.
(07:44):
Like I decided, I started to,um, develop a really regular
yoga practice and meditationpractice.
And through that, um, Like Ireally kind of shifted away from
organized religion and more intothis broader sense of Yeah, I
don't know this broaderconnection with the universe.
(08:04):
I guess like is the best way todescribe it Yeah, and I had some
really beautiful, vividmeditation experiences, um,
through that.
And, um, it was, it wasincredibly helpful for me and
sort of in shifting andtransforming, like, and, um,
(08:27):
growing, uh, you know, like at atime when I was feeling quite
stuck, uh, and was likestruggling a little bit with my
mental health.
And it really kind of helpedpush me through that.
Tatiana (08:39):
Yeah, how beautiful.
And it's so interesting.
Uh, I think you'll recall someof the research that we've been,
we've spoken about throughoutthis year that particularly Dr.
Lisa Miller, she's beendemonstrating, right?
Like it's not uncommon for youngadults around that 18, 19, um,
age to have a bout of depressionor anxiety.
And it's usually, uh, a deepercalling or, uh, an aching for a
(09:04):
spiritual connection.
Right.
And so it's quite fascinatingthat that's been your experience
Veronica (09:10):
absolutely.
Like, I just remember that somuch and, um, like, still
holding a few of these, like,these traditional religious
beliefs that I was growing upin, but sort of wrestling.
with them quite a bit.
And it was so, it was, it wasterrifying.
It felt like I was like losing alittle bit of like my footing or
(09:34):
my grounding, I guess, um, to beable to step away from that and,
and think, you know what, it'sokay that there's, there's parts
of this that no longer fit forme.
Um, that, you know, it's okayfor me to forge my own path and
develop ideas, um, around myspirituality that like, you
(09:54):
know, that are deeply personaland, uh, mine, you know, don't
belong to anybody else.
Tatiana (10:02):
And so for your perspective and your own
personal experience, what haveyou found to be the benefits of
incorporating, I guess, thatspiritual lens or, uh, spiritual
perspective into your life on,on that
Veronica (10:15):
Um, oh, there's, there's so, there's so much, um,
my meditation and my yogapractice is incredibly important
for me.
And for me getting on my mat,it's not, it's not just about
doing the stretches or theasanas or the poses.
It's, um, really.
(10:36):
It really is about, um, myconnection to self and
connection to something bigger.
So it really is a spiritualexperience for me every time I
get on my mat and do my yoga.
Um, we always grow when weembark on a spiritual path,
particularly if we're willing tobe flexible and open in what
(11:00):
comes.
Um, like if, if I am strugglingwith anything, I'll meditate on
it.
And, you know, I really want,when I go into a meditation, I
really want to be flexible andopen and leave my judgments,
expectations at the door.
And, um, you know, just bereally open to what pops in for
(11:24):
me.
And, Often the things that popin for me are just new insights,
just a different way of lookingat the situation.
Um, you know, sometimes it'shard truths.
Sometimes it's, you know, thingsthat I need to look at, like in
terms of myself and my habitsand, um, stuff that needs to
shift and change.
(11:46):
Uh, but it's always like, italways feels like it's coming
from a really loving and areally nurturing place.
Uh, yeah, and it's, it's justthat opportunity to, to grow and
learn about myself and, um, be,be open to tapping into, you
(12:06):
know, for me, it is about liketapping into something deeper
within the universe, but it'salso about tapping into
different parts of self that Iwouldn't normally have access
to.
And that's always going to bebeneficial for growth.
Tatiana (12:20):
Yeah.
100%.
I say this all the time that Ithink the spiritual path that
we're all on is one is one ofevolution.
It's one of growth, right?
Personal growth.
And so we were here to grow inlots of different ways,
emotionally, psychologically,but also spiritually.
And you're right.
Like all these different facetsare like.
(12:42):
They help us deepen thatunderstanding and just, and
shake off the stuff that doesn'tfit as we go through the path
doesn't, isn't it?
Veronica (12:50):
absolutely.
Tatiana (12:52):
Um, so have you found that having this, I guess,
perspective, the spiritualperspective has enhanced your
work as a psychologist in anyway?
Veronica (13:05):
like I, I do, I mean, I don't think it's necessary,
but like, I do think it hashelped me personally to be more
nonjudgmental and more curiousand more open, um, and hopefully
create a space where my clientscan just, show up and, um, you
(13:27):
know, it's a safe space for myclients to share their beliefs
and their ideas about the world,which is, you know, everyone's
spiritual journey.
Like if they are on that path,it's so deeply personal and so
deeply important to people.
Um, and I really, think thatit's, it's really important in
the work that we're doing whenwe're creating this sacred space
(13:50):
for clients, that they, theyfeel safe to share all parts of
themselves and all parts oftheir journey with religion and
I re or spirituality.
And I really do try and, youknow, like see the common
threads in what people areexperiences.
experiencing, um, yeah, withouthaving any judgments about what,
(14:14):
um, lens that they are applyingto it because there's so many
common threads like through,through different religions and
through people's spiritual pathsthat it doesn't actually always
matter what modality thatthey're drawn to.
Um, so I think having my ownspiritual journey has helped me,
(14:34):
yeah, just be open to meetpeople where they're at, um, in
the therapy room.
Yeah.
Tatiana (14:42):
Yeah, fantastic.
Um, we've, I mean, I know youand I have spoken about this
offline and it's something thatI speak to.
I would.
Other psychologists that havethis spiritual leaning as well
about, um, but in ourprofession, particularly in
Australia, there's a lot of fearof, of embracing our spiritual
(15:03):
side, right?
Like there's, uh, almost this,it feels like a taboo topic.
Like we have to hide in ourlittle closets.
Um, and obviously you're at apoint where you, you've, you've
made a, you've made a Um, a lotof work to reconcile those two
aspects of yourself.
Was there a period where youfelt that fear of like being a
Veronica (15:24):
Absolutely.
Tatiana (15:25):
element?
Veronica (15:26):
Um, and it's still a work in progress.
So, like, I remember being atuniversity and, um, really
loving, like, I love learningand I really loved the subjects
that I was learning and I lovedlearning about the science of it
all and, um, you know, that,that was, It's something that
like I really enjoyed and then Iwould go and I don't know, go to
(15:50):
like full moon drumming nights,like, you know, and like
experience a different part ofmyself on weekends.
And it really did feel like, um,yeah, like there was two
different parts of myself andtwo different worlds that would
never actually meet.
there was absolutely a fearthere that, um, you know, if
people knew that I was aspiritual person, that there'd
(16:12):
be some sort of judgment aboutme not being able to sit with
science and sit with evidencebased practice, which is
absolutely not the case at all.
Um, but I think that is thereason why I've like, For the
longest time, kept those partsof myself quite separate.
Tatiana (16:32):
Yes.
So what did you do or how didyou overcome that fear?
Veronica (16:37):
One of the values that I really, really want to embody
in my practice is authenticity.
Um, you know, and we don't, wedon't share everything about
ourselves in our sessions, butwe, it is really important that
like, if we're going to embody avalue, that's important to us
that we're embodying it in allaspects of our life.
Um, and like, Reflecting on whoI want to be as a psychologist
(17:03):
and wanting to be an authenticperson is one of the things that
has pushed me to talk about myspirituality a little bit more
because it's such an importantpart of who I am.
So, you know, um, it's notsomething that I want to keep
compartmentalizing and leavingat the door.
Tatiana (17:23):
Mm.
Yeah.
100%.
Uh, so I mean, I guess I'massuming from your answer that
you obviously see value in us aspsychologists and therapists
embracing this spiritual side ofourselves, but aside from the
authenticity and being able toshow up more fully, um, as
(17:43):
ourselves, what else, what othervalues do you think being able
to embrace that in our work orat the very least being able to
tap into that curiosity forthose.
Who are listening in that maybefurther back in this journey,
right?
Like that still, they'recurious, but don't maybe know
where to start or are stillscared to start exploring that
part of themselves.
What value would you say, um,pursuing
Veronica (18:05):
just, you just always going to learn about yourself.
I've had experience withorganized religion, um, and not
all of them have been positive.
And I know a lot of people havehad experiences with organized
religion, which, you know, somepeople it's been, you know,
really fits for them and it'sgreat.
But when you have like anegative experience of, um,
(18:26):
maybe spirituality or religionor religious trauma, um, it can
really, you know, create abarrier.
But what I want to People toknow is, you know, you can go on
a spiritual journey.
That's yours and belongs to you.
And it doesn't matter what itlooks like anybody else.
(18:50):
Um, you know, that, if you'recurious about this, be curious,
explore, read up, meditate, youknow, do engage in mindfulness,
go in nature.
It doesn't have to, you don'thave to put labels on what
you're, you know, what you'reexperiencing.
Um, but just.
(19:11):
You know, just, just createsomething in your life that, you
know, that is around, um, havingsome sort of communion with
self.
And, you know, you don't have toget bogged down on what that
looks like and what, whatlabels, you know, are attached
to that.
Tatiana (19:30):
Yeah.
100%.
Um, if you had to pick onetransformative aspect of
embracing spirituality morefully, both on a personal and a
professional level, what aspectwould you say that would be for
you?
Yes.
Veronica (19:47):
so, I think the first one that comes to mind is
always, like, developing thatcompassion for self and others.
Um, but apart from that, um,there was a quote.
He's actually a yoga instructorwhere this quote came from.
And it's kind of always stuckwith me, um, in embodying like
(20:10):
why, why spirituality is just soimportant.
Um, and I'm probably not goingto get the quote a hundred
percent right, but that's okay.
It was something along the linesof, um, we often associate
progress with action whenthere's so much to be gained
from stillness.
And the reason why that standsout so much is like we're in, we
(20:33):
live in such a busy world where,um, there's lots of value
attached to being busy andthere's lots of value attached
to, you know, the doing and theproducing.
But I know, um, You know, someof my, like my growth, um, my
(20:55):
most beautiful transformativeexperiences, the, the things
that have like so many of thethings that have been really
life enhancing for me has beenin the stillness, has been in a
meditation.
Um, you know, and other peopleare not going to see it.
They're not going to know, um,what that looks like.
(21:16):
Uh, but like.
You know, yes, like it's, it'simportant that we produce here,
but it needs to be balanced.
And, um, a lot of the work, alot of the growth that you're
going to experience in your lifehere, it is going to be around
the going.
The going inwards and thelooking inwards and the making
space away from the busyness oflife to do that.
Tatiana (21:40):
100%.
And I, like, I believe as wellthat the reason so many people
are struggling with that, thatsense of disconnection, that
sense of existential angst isbecause of that, like, there's
many reasons for it, but I thinkthat's definitely one of them,
right?
Like we're so conditioned tojust being busy and not tuning
into ourselves, not allowingthat connection.
(22:01):
Guidance to come in because ouris so externalized, um, and
we're all suffering for it.
So, yeah, I think that's abeautiful
Veronica (22:11):
Yeah.
I think, yeah, it's a little bitof that internalized capitalism,
like, you know, that we, ourvalue is in the doing, but, you
know, our worth actually doesn'tchange whether we're doing or
not.
Our worth is just our worth.
We just are, and we can sit inthe being, and we should be
sitting in the being a lot more.
Tatiana (22:31):
We might even find that our productivity or our output
is so much better, right?
If when it's coming from thatconnected and aligned place.
Um, yeah.
Uh, and so I guess on a finalnote, uh, this conversation has
been so, so lovely.
Uh, but I have this, thisquestion.
I guess a ritual tradition withmy guests where I get them to
(22:54):
share with the audience arecommendation for a spiritual
book that was transformative foryou in your journey to aid those
that are curious about exploringthese topics more deeply and
where they might want to start.
So would you, do you have anybooks that you might want to
Veronica (23:10):
look, and I was dreading this question because,
um, there have been books, uh,that I really loved and were
really important to me at thetime.
And then I kind of revisited andthere's, there were aspects of
them that just no longer fit,um, for me.
So instead of recommending abook, I'm going to recommend a
(23:31):
person.
Um, Her name's Adrienne Mishlerand she's actually a yoga, um,
instructor and she puts out alot of free yoga material on
YouTube.
So she's free, she's easilyaccessible and, um, there's a
lot of things that, um, youknow, that, that, that she
creates accessibility aroundability as well.
(23:53):
Uh, but I just, she justembodies.
love, compassion, and selfnurturing.
she's really, really special.
Um, there's a couple of thingsthat she says that really kind
of stand out for me.
One is, Move like you loveyourself.
(24:15):
Um, so I really, really lovethis because I know developing
self compassion is somethingthat so many of us really
struggle with.
It's, it's, it's hard to, toshift, um, the way we feel about
ourselves.
But, but I love, I love thewords move, move like you love
yourself because it gives you aplace to start, like you don't
(24:38):
have to already be there tostart embodying that, like, you
know, what would your life looklike if you moved through it,
like you loved yourself, youknow, and what does that look
like even in the smaller momentswhen you're doing the dishes or
when you're making yourself acup of tea, like, what does
moving like you love yourselflook like, And then the other
(24:58):
thing she really, um, she says alot is intention over shape.
And obviously she's saying thatin terms of your yoga practice,
um, because everybody's shapelooks different when they're on
the mat.
Like, you know, we need toforget about, um, doing this,
the asanas correctly.
Um, you know, Every, everybody'sbody moves differently.
(25:19):
We're all at different,different places when she says
that she's, you know, it's aboutmoving into your body and
feeling into your body about,you know, what the yoga practice
feels like.
And I just think that that issuch a beautiful analogy for
life, like trying something new,um, you know, when you're, when
(25:41):
you wanted to make a change inyour life or what you wouldn't,
when you wanted to go forsomething, you know, we have.
we have fears around what that'sgoing to look like.
Um, and sometimes that can getin the way where, you know,
that, that important, that ideaaround intention over, overshape
is like, you know what, I'm notgoing to have all the answers
(26:04):
for this in the beginning.
You know, I'm going to set myintentions about it and I'm
going to move and I'm going toact, but I don't know how this
is going to take shape.
Tatiana (26:16):
Yeah.
Gorgeous.
I'm going to put a link to inthe show notes to her YouTube
channel.
This is yoga with Adriane.
Veronica (26:22):
Mm
Tatiana (26:23):
Yeah, no, she's beautiful.
Yeah.
I'll add a link to her YouTubechannel in the, in the show
notes, but I also wanted to justcircle back to what you started
with, which was it was hard torecommend a book because.
Books often don't always fit youagain when you, when you've
moved on in your journey.
And I think that's a reallyimportant topic to, to just
(26:45):
highlight for people becausethis is true.
Like I think we, we encounterthese lessons or teachers where
we need them, but as we continueto develop and grow, we outgrow
some of those lessons becausethat process of evolution is
continuous, right?
And I think you've highlightedthat so beautifully, but we
(27:06):
just.
Moved on to the next thing and Ireally wanted to,
Veronica (27:09):
Yeah, and I guess there can be a little bit of
disappointment around thatsometimes, um, you know, I have
had, you know, I've metteachers, I've, I've, um, like,
you know, found YouTubepersonalities and, like, writers
where, you know, like at thetime it was just, what they were
saying was just revolutionaryfor me and spoke to my soul.
(27:32):
And then sometimes there issomething that doesn't fit, but
I think that that's actually areally, really good thing.
Um, it stops us from getting,um, trapped into this idea that
one person has all of theanswers, um, which is, you know,
quite problematic.
Like, I like the idea that I cantake what fits, um, from certain
(27:53):
people and.
Leave the rest.
Um, and I think there is a bitof safety in that as well.
Like, you know, that I like toresearch broadly Consume a lot
of content, but if it doesn'tfit for me, like if not all of
it fits, that's actually okayYou know, I can just I can just
leave the bits that don't fitYeah.
Tatiana (28:15):
Yeah, 100%.
And I think that it goes theother way as well.
Like sometimes you encountersomething that you're not yet
ready for.
And so you're going to be like,I can't, this doesn't resonate
for me, but as you've done somemore of that developing and
growing, you can go back tothat, to that and it all of a
sudden connects.
So I think that just beautifullyhighlights the fact that we need
(28:36):
to be open and flexible to, youknow, growth journey, right.
And, and recognize that we dobetter when we know better.
Yeah, which is what you'retalking about.
Like you sometimes resonate withsomething that isn't necessarily
great in the big scheme ofthings, but there's still
something, there's like a pearlof wisdom in everything I think
we can, we can potentially find.
(28:57):
Um, but then when you knowbetter, you can look back and
go, okay, well, not all of thatwas actually ideal.
Um, but also as we grow, webecome more ready to, to absorb,
I guess, a higher level ofinsight or perspective.
Um, Yeah, this whole process,right?
It's what makes it infuriating,but also beautiful.
Veronica (29:19):
know, you're getting all these beautiful insights and
then, you know, everythingright?
No, not at all.
Yeah, but
Tatiana (29:29):
Exactly.
I don't think we can learneverything in one
Veronica (29:32):
absolutely not.
Um, so yeah, like the more, themore you pull at a particular
thread, The more questions thereare going to be, um, but like
that is a beautiful part ofbeing human, um, you know,
sitting with the not knowingeverything and, you know, that
we, we learn, we grow, we absorbknowledge, but we also have to
(29:53):
give up, um, the need forcontrol over, like, having all
of the answers and what theknowledge looks like.
Yeah.
Tatiana (30:05):
Absolutely.
So much easier said than done,right?
But absolutely true.
Oh, thank you so much, Veronica.
I really enjoyed thisconversation.
I think you've highlighted somereally important points for
people.
Um, and yeah, reinforced somethings that I really Uh, helpful
for people to keep in mind whenthey're going through this
(30:25):
journey of, um, connecting withtheir spirituality or trying to
integrate it into their lives ortheir work a little bit more.
So I'm so grateful for youagreeing to come on and
Veronica (30:35):
Thank you.
Thank you for the opportunity.
It's been lovely.
Tatiana (30:38):
yeah.
Now, would you like to justmaybe let our listeners know
where they can connect with youif they
Veronica (30:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, so I'm at a group privatepractice.
Um, it's called DivernialPsychology.
So it's a bit of a mouthful.
D E V for Victor, ERN, forNovember, EUIL psychology.
Um, I think the website's, deverpsychology.com au.
(31:05):
I think it's a very easy one,but it'll be in the notes
anyway.
Uh, yeah, so I'm just in, uh,like northern suburbs of Perth.
It's a suburb called Clarkson.
And yeah, people will be able toconnect with me through that
website.
Tatiana (31:22):
well, that's great.
I'll add all of that informationin the short notes.
Um, so anyone who's interestedand lives out that way, uh, and
is looking, I think sometimespeople are looking for a
psychologist that will allowthem to go to those places as
well and explore theirspirituality.
In a way that feels safe tothem, but we don't know where to
start or they, they're tooscared to bring it up.
(31:44):
So for those that are listening,either as a consumer or as a
psychologist who may haveclients that are looking for
that, um, you would be a
Veronica (31:53):
thank you very much, yeah, no, I appreciate that, mm,
Tatiana (31:58):
Yeah.
All right.
Well, thank you so much again,Veronica.
And thank you all everyone forlistening.
I hope you all have a lovelyweek and we'll speak
Veronica (32:05):
thanks, Tethya.
Tatiana (32:06):
Bye.
Thank you for tuning in to thisepisode of Integrated Wisdom.
It is my sincere wish thattoday's episode may have
intrigued and inspired you toreclaim your power and step into
becoming more fully integratedspiritual beings.
New episodes are published everysecond Wednesday and I hope
(32:27):
you'll continue to join us as wedive deeper into what it means
to live an integrated life.
So if it feels aligned to you, Iinvite you to hit subscribe and
share it with others who youfeel may benefit too.
You may also find me onInstagram at integrated
underscore wisdom.
Remember each moment is anopportunity to embrace your
(32:50):
divine potential and create aworld that is more frequently
inspired.
So for now, stay connected, stayinspired and keep shining your
light into the world.
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