August 20, 2025 • 16 mins
Have you ever wondered whether the “signs” you notice — a feather on your windshield, a song lyric that speaks directly to something you've been thinking about — are just coincidences, or something more?
In this episode, Tatiana explores the fascinating intersection of neuroscience, psychology, and spirituality to ask: are spiritual signs real, and if so, how do we make sense of them?
Drawing on neuroscience research — including insights from Dr. Tara Swart’s work on the brain’s meaning-making systems — Tatiana explores how our minds are wired to notice and interpret patterns. She then takes the conversation further, weaving in psychology, spirituality, and lived experience to reveal a bigger truth: perhaps spirit and science were never separate to begin with.
You’ll learn:
- Why the brain is designed to notice patterns and symbols.
- How neuroscience and spirituality can both explain (and enrich) our experiences of signs.
- Two personal stories that illustrate how signs can guide us through uncertainty and difficulty.
- Gentle reflection prompts to help you notice your own symbolic language.
✨ Reflection Prompts (for listeners who want to go deeper):
- Recall a Sign: When was the last time you noticed something — a feather, a song, a number — that felt like more than coincidence? Write it down.
- Body Awareness: How did your body feel in that moment? Did your shoulders drop? Did you feel warmth, expansion, or relief?
- Reframing Challenge: The next time you face uncertainty, try asking: If the universe or my guides wanted to reassure me right now, how might they show up? Notice what unfolds in the hours or days ahead.
Deepen your learning:
The Science of Spirituality FREE micro-course - https://www.integratedwisdom.com.au/microcourse
The Signal Newsletter: https://www.integratedwisdom.com.au/
Contact Tatiana:
You can now send me your comments or questions, to hello@integratedwisdom.com.au or you can also find me on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wisdomwithtatiana/
Be sure to SHARE this episode to anyone you feel may be interested or benefit from this content.
And please don't forget to hit SUBSCRIBE to keep up to date with our episodes and give us a RATING below. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Intro and Outro music: Inspiring Morning by Playsound
Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be treated as psychological treatment or to replace the need for psychological treatment.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tatiana (00:00):
Welcome to the Integrated Wisdom Podcast.
(00:03):
I am your host, Tatiana Ola,psychologist, spiritual
educator, and founder of a bodyof work.
Devote to lead others toremembering what we never truly
forgot, that science and spiritwere never separate.
They are H in their RY.
Expressions of the same sacredarchitecture.
(00:25):
This podcast is for the quietrevolutionaries, the therapists,
the seekers, the spirituallydiscerning and scientifically
curious who know that we arebeing called into a new paradigm
for personal and collectivetransformation.
Together we explore what itmeans to live a coherent.
(00:48):
Soul led life drawing frompsychology, neuroscience,
epigenetics, energy medicine,and spiritual remembrance.
These aren't just conversations.
They are transmissions for thoseready to return to what's true,
to what's quietly waitingbeneath it.
(01:16):
Hello everyone and welcome backto the Integrated Wisdom
Podcast.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
So today I want to talk aboutsomething that sits right at the
heart of my work, what happenswhen neuroscience meets spirit,
and why the signs were alwayshere.
Recently I listened toneuroscientist Dr.
(01:39):
Tara Swart on the Diary of a CEOpodcast with Steven Bartlett,
and she was asked some reallyprofound spiritual questions and
listening to her, got mereflecting on my own journey,
me, because for me, this hasbeen something that I've lived.
It's something that I've taughtand it's something that I've
(02:02):
wrestled with.
personally myself.
And so I want to share.
Some of that today along withwhat the neuroscience already
shows us about why signs matterand how they can become a bridge
between our inner guidance andnavigating life.
Firstly, I want to say this, ittakes immense courage for any
(02:25):
scientist or clinician topublicly acknowledge spiritual
questions and experiences.
Whilst we've made a lot ofprogress, we're still not there
yet.
There's still a lot ofskepticism and pushback and, uh,
a materialist mindset that insome ways still dominates the
narrative.
And so for Dr.
(02:46):
Swart to step bravely forward tospeak about her own experiences
with spirit.
has opened a door that I deeplyrespect and appreciate because
it makes it so much easier forthe rest of us to come forward
and share our own experiencesand insights when someone's so
credible comes out and speaksabout their own.
(03:10):
And so here's where myperspective comes in.
I don't believe spirituality andscience were ever separate.
They've always been describingthe exact same sacred framework
of life just through differentlanguages.
And I'll share a story toillustrate this.
(03:30):
A few years ago I was wrestlingwith a decision that honestly
terrified me.
Some, those of you who have beenfollowing along this podcast
will have heard me talk aboutthe challenges I had moving into
this work.
But I felt this deep urge tospeak more openly about
spirituality and science for areally long time before I felt
(03:51):
ready to do it, and to go beyondmy clinical practice and step
more fully into this space thatdidn't quite exist yet.
Um, at least not in the way thatit does now.
And I kept asking myself, Who amI to do this?
You know, what if I'm wrong?
What if people think that I'velost it and I lose all
(04:13):
credibility?
Um, until one day you know, itwas a day that I was really
wrestling with these questions.
Um, I was driving out of theclinic and these questions were
front of mind for me and out ofnowhere.
A single large white featherlanded directly on my
(04:35):
windshield.
Now, it didn't just float past,it actually wedged itself under
the wiper blade of my windscreenwipers and forced me to stop my
car because it was, you know, infront of me and get it out and
hold it in my hands and in thatmoment.
(04:58):
I just knew I had a full bodyreaction to this.
This was confirmation.
This was a sign that I was onthe right path, even if it felt
uncertain.
And now scientifically speaking.
(05:21):
Sure we can say, well, birds flyall the time.
There are feathers everywhere.
But it was the, the, the uniqueway in which this feather just
appeared immediately in front ofme wedged itself.
And my windscreen wipe was oneof the chances my car wasn't
still, it was moving.
(05:42):
Um, so already that kind of, youknow, begs further.
Further thought, like you don'twanna just dismiss something
like that and what we know,scientifically speaking, is that
our brain is constantly scanningfor patterns.
It's designed to do that.
And what we can call signs areoften arise through a process
(06:04):
called salience detection.
So it's the way that our brainwill filter out billions of
stimuli to highlight what feelspersonally meaningful.
Our brain is always thoughtinto, you know, what it should
pay attention to and what it'ssafe to ignore.
But research also shows thatmeaning making is a central
(06:25):
aspect to human wellbeing.
It's not irrational.
Or magical thinking.
It's actually a core function ofthe brain to create meaning out
of chaos.
And so while a feather on awindshield might seem random to
somebody else, to me, in thatparticular moment of
(06:46):
uncertainty, it became aprofound marker of alignment.
It was an answer that I neededto receive.
Another example from my life.
Is that whenever I'm goingthrough a hard time, I tend to
see moths.
That sounds very weird.
I don't even know why it'smoths, but it's always moths.
(07:09):
Um, and most of the time it'sjust the one.
Sometimes it's two and you knowit, it'll be on my wall at home.
Sometimes it'll be at.
My therapy rooms or somewhere inthe practice, sometimes in the
bathroom of the practice.
That's actually happened a fewtimes.
Um, and more than once I havecome, you know, to get into my
(07:32):
car, to find one perch, eitheron the hood or on a window of my
car.
And over time, I've come torealize this is a personal sign
for my guides, that I amprotected, that I can keep
going, that I'm not alone.
Everything will be okay.
And this is where spirit andscience intersect, what
(07:55):
neuroscience describes aspattern recognition.
I describe as a sacred guidancespeaking in the language of my
nervous system.
And here's where the researchcan help.
Again, studies in psychology andneuroscience show that belief in
signs or symbols can reducestress and increase resilience.
(08:19):
Spiritual narratives can havethis soothing effect on our
nervous system and deactivateseveral aspects of our brain
that are involved in processesof rumination or feelings of
overwhelm.
(08:40):
There's also lots of researchthat demonstrates that the
meaning that we assign toexperiences can directly shape
our physiology by loweringcortisol, calming our nervous
system, and even improvinghealth outcomes.
And finally, from anevolutionary perspective, our
(09:02):
brains are wired to see morethan meets the eye.
Because finding meaning oftenhelps us survive uncertainty.
And so my moth experiencesaren't just comforting stories,
they're ways of engaging withreality that shift my biology
into a state of safety and hope.
(09:25):
And so when Dr.
Swartz said that we can trainour brains to perceive more
signs, she was pointing tosomething profound.
She.
And I would take it a stepfurther that we don't just train
our perception, we also trainour trust.
When we engage in practices likethis, the more we allow
(09:45):
ourselves to notice thesemoments, the more the brain and
spirit collaborate to show usthe path forward.
What spirituality adds is thetrust that these aren't just
brain quirks.
That meaning itself is part ofthe architecture of reality,
that the universe is responsive,that we're in dialogue, not in
(10:07):
isolation, and that is why thesigns have always been here.
Science is only now catching upto describe the mechanics.
But humans across cultures andcenturies have always looked to
signs, to make sense of their,their experiences in the world,
to feathers, to moths, tonumbers, dreams,
(10:27):
synchronicities.
Not because we human beings arefoolish, but because we were
wise enough to know that lifespeaks if we're listening.
So here's my takeaway.
The signs were always here.
Science explains how we seethem, and spirit explains why
(10:49):
they matter.
And when we stop insisting thatthose two things are separate,
we open ourselves up to the fulldepth of what it means to be
human.
And we arm ourselves with toolsthat help us navigate the
challenges that we inevitablyface in life.
So let science explain the how,if that helps to ground you.
(11:11):
But don't lose the wonder of thewhy, because sometimes what
looks like random things thatare happening, it's actually
life saying to you.
You're not alone.
You're on that path.
Keep going.
And so before we finish, if youwant to take this deeper, invite
you to sit with some of thesereflection prompts.
(11:35):
When you take some time, if youwant to pause, grab yourself a
journal, sit down, or after youlisten to this episode, jot down
these these prompts, and thensit down somewhere that feels
really serene and comforting andsoothing for you, and work your
way through some of theseprompts to just help you embody
and integrate what we've beentalking about.
(11:59):
So firstly, I want you to recalla sign that you yourself have
experienced.
So when was the last time thatyou noticed something, whether
it was a feather or a song witha special, lyric, a number,
something that felt like morethan a coincidence.
And when you can pinpoint whatthat was, write it down.
(12:20):
And then I want to bring yourawareness to your body,
connecting with that moment.
Can you remember how it felt inyour body at that time?
Did you feel warmth, expansionor relief?
Or maybe you felt a heaviness ora drop in your shoulders?
(12:41):
Just try to scan back andconnect with anything that
happened in your physical bodyin response to that sign.
And once you've got that, I'mgoing to invite you.
To now start paying attention tomoments like this moving
forward, the next time that youface a period of uncertainty,
(13:03):
try asking, okay, if theuniverse or my guides wanted to
reassure me right now, how mightthey show up?
And notice what unfolds in thehours or days ahead.
Dr.
Swart actually in her book, theSigns that's just about to come
out and in her interview wastalking about asking for very
(13:24):
specific signs.
So you can play around with thatand exercise that muscle.
You know, make it unique.
Make it something that's reallymeaningful to you, something
that's going to not happenfairly readily to, so that when
you, you come across it, itbecomes very clear to you, yes,
this is, this is for me, this isspeaking to me.
(13:47):
So I just wanna thank you forbeing here today, and if this
conversation resonated, I'd loveto share more with you.
I, I've just recently dropped afree micro course called The
Science of Spirituality.
Where I break down some researchback spiritual practices and
showcase a little bit aboutwhat's, what the science is
(14:08):
showing in terms of the rolethat spirituality plays in our
life.
all delivered in a bite-sized,easily digestible way that's
grounded and accessible.
You can find the, the course,the link.
In the show notes or through mywebsite on integrated wisdom.com
(14:30):
au.
And if you'd like more groundedtools and reflections like this,
I share them in my monthlynewsletter.
The Signal, um, it's where I goon, I go a bit deeper into the
intersection of psychology,spirituality, and science.
And you can find the link intothe show notes.
In the show notes as well, or onmy website.
You can subscribe to thenewsletter there.
(14:51):
So as always, thank you so muchfor listening and for daring to
live at the intersection ofscience and spirit.
Until next time, staydiscerning, stay curious, and
remember, you are neverdisconnected.
Only waiting to remember.
Bye.
(15:11):
Thank you for tuning into thisepisode of Integrated Wisdom.
It is my sincere wish that thisepisode may have intrigued and
inspired you to reclaim yourpower and step into becoming
more fully integrated spiritualbeings.
New episodes are published everysecond Wednesday, and I hope
that you'll continue to join usas we dive deeper into what it
(15:31):
means to live an integratedlife.
If this space has stirredsomething in you, I invite you
to subscribe, share it withthose attuned to this path, and
explore the full body ofwork@integratedwisdom.com au.
You can also find me onInstagram at Wisdom with
(15:53):
Tatiana, where the conversationcontinues.
Until next time, staydiscerning, stay curious, and
let this be your reminder.
You were never disconnected.
Only waiting to remember.
Welcome to the Integrated Wisdom Podcast.
(00:03):
I am your host, Tatiana Ola,psychologist, spiritual
educator, and founder of a bodyof work.
Devote to lead others toremembering what we never truly
forgot, that science and spiritwere never separate.
They are H in their RY.
Expressions of the same sacredarchitecture.
(00:25):
This podcast is for the quietrevolutionaries, the therapists,
the seekers, the spirituallydiscerning and scientifically
curious who know that we arebeing called into a new paradigm
for personal and collectivetransformation.
Together we explore what itmeans to live a coherent.
(00:48):
Soul led life drawing frompsychology, neuroscience,
epigenetics, energy medicine,and spiritual remembrance.
These aren't just conversations.
They are transmissions for thoseready to return to what's true,
to what's quietly waitingbeneath it.
(01:16):
Hello everyone and welcome backto the Integrated Wisdom
Podcast.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
So today I want to talk aboutsomething that sits right at the
heart of my work, what happenswhen neuroscience meets spirit,
and why the signs were alwayshere.
Recently I listened toneuroscientist Dr.
(01:39):
Tara Swart on the Diary of a CEOpodcast with Steven Bartlett,
and she was asked some reallyprofound spiritual questions and
listening to her, got mereflecting on my own journey,
me, because for me, this hasbeen something that I've lived.
It's something that I've taughtand it's something that I've
(02:02):
wrestled with.
personally myself.
And so I want to share.
Some of that today along withwhat the neuroscience already
shows us about why signs matterand how they can become a bridge
between our inner guidance andnavigating life.
Firstly, I want to say this, ittakes immense courage for any
(02:25):
scientist or clinician topublicly acknowledge spiritual
questions and experiences.
Whilst we've made a lot ofprogress, we're still not there
yet.
There's still a lot ofskepticism and pushback and, uh,
a materialist mindset that insome ways still dominates the
narrative.
And so for Dr.
(02:46):
Swart to step bravely forward tospeak about her own experiences
with spirit.
has opened a door that I deeplyrespect and appreciate because
it makes it so much easier forthe rest of us to come forward
and share our own experiencesand insights when someone's so
credible comes out and speaksabout their own.
(03:10):
And so here's where myperspective comes in.
I don't believe spirituality andscience were ever separate.
They've always been describingthe exact same sacred framework
of life just through differentlanguages.
And I'll share a story toillustrate this.
(03:30):
A few years ago I was wrestlingwith a decision that honestly
terrified me.
Some, those of you who have beenfollowing along this podcast
will have heard me talk aboutthe challenges I had moving into
this work.
But I felt this deep urge tospeak more openly about
spirituality and science for areally long time before I felt
(03:51):
ready to do it, and to go beyondmy clinical practice and step
more fully into this space thatdidn't quite exist yet.
Um, at least not in the way thatit does now.
And I kept asking myself, Who amI to do this?
You know, what if I'm wrong?
What if people think that I'velost it and I lose all
(04:13):
credibility?
Um, until one day you know, itwas a day that I was really
wrestling with these questions.
Um, I was driving out of theclinic and these questions were
front of mind for me and out ofnowhere.
A single large white featherlanded directly on my
(04:35):
windshield.
Now, it didn't just float past,it actually wedged itself under
the wiper blade of my windscreenwipers and forced me to stop my
car because it was, you know, infront of me and get it out and
hold it in my hands and in thatmoment.
(04:58):
I just knew I had a full bodyreaction to this.
This was confirmation.
This was a sign that I was onthe right path, even if it felt
uncertain.
And now scientifically speaking.
(05:21):
Sure we can say, well, birds flyall the time.
There are feathers everywhere.
But it was the, the, the uniqueway in which this feather just
appeared immediately in front ofme wedged itself.
And my windscreen wipe was oneof the chances my car wasn't
still, it was moving.
(05:42):
Um, so already that kind of, youknow, begs further.
Further thought, like you don'twanna just dismiss something
like that and what we know,scientifically speaking, is that
our brain is constantly scanningfor patterns.
It's designed to do that.
And what we can call signs areoften arise through a process
(06:04):
called salience detection.
So it's the way that our brainwill filter out billions of
stimuli to highlight what feelspersonally meaningful.
Our brain is always thoughtinto, you know, what it should
pay attention to and what it'ssafe to ignore.
But research also shows thatmeaning making is a central
(06:25):
aspect to human wellbeing.
It's not irrational.
Or magical thinking.
It's actually a core function ofthe brain to create meaning out
of chaos.
And so while a feather on awindshield might seem random to
somebody else, to me, in thatparticular moment of
(06:46):
uncertainty, it became aprofound marker of alignment.
It was an answer that I neededto receive.
Another example from my life.
Is that whenever I'm goingthrough a hard time, I tend to
see moths.
That sounds very weird.
I don't even know why it'smoths, but it's always moths.
(07:09):
Um, and most of the time it'sjust the one.
Sometimes it's two and you knowit, it'll be on my wall at home.
Sometimes it'll be at.
My therapy rooms or somewhere inthe practice, sometimes in the
bathroom of the practice.
That's actually happened a fewtimes.
Um, and more than once I havecome, you know, to get into my
(07:32):
car, to find one perch, eitheron the hood or on a window of my
car.
And over time, I've come torealize this is a personal sign
for my guides, that I amprotected, that I can keep
going, that I'm not alone.
Everything will be okay.
And this is where spirit andscience intersect, what
(07:55):
neuroscience describes aspattern recognition.
I describe as a sacred guidancespeaking in the language of my
nervous system.
And here's where the researchcan help.
Again, studies in psychology andneuroscience show that belief in
signs or symbols can reducestress and increase resilience.
(08:19):
Spiritual narratives can havethis soothing effect on our
nervous system and deactivateseveral aspects of our brain
that are involved in processesof rumination or feelings of
overwhelm.
(08:40):
There's also lots of researchthat demonstrates that the
meaning that we assign toexperiences can directly shape
our physiology by loweringcortisol, calming our nervous
system, and even improvinghealth outcomes.
And finally, from anevolutionary perspective, our
(09:02):
brains are wired to see morethan meets the eye.
Because finding meaning oftenhelps us survive uncertainty.
And so my moth experiencesaren't just comforting stories,
they're ways of engaging withreality that shift my biology
into a state of safety and hope.
(09:25):
And so when Dr.
Swartz said that we can trainour brains to perceive more
signs, she was pointing tosomething profound.
She.
And I would take it a stepfurther that we don't just train
our perception, we also trainour trust.
When we engage in practices likethis, the more we allow
(09:45):
ourselves to notice thesemoments, the more the brain and
spirit collaborate to show usthe path forward.
What spirituality adds is thetrust that these aren't just
brain quirks.
That meaning itself is part ofthe architecture of reality,
that the universe is responsive,that we're in dialogue, not in
(10:07):
isolation, and that is why thesigns have always been here.
Science is only now catching upto describe the mechanics.
But humans across cultures andcenturies have always looked to
signs, to make sense of their,their experiences in the world,
to feathers, to moths, tonumbers, dreams,
(10:27):
synchronicities.
Not because we human beings arefoolish, but because we were
wise enough to know that lifespeaks if we're listening.
So here's my takeaway.
The signs were always here.
Science explains how we seethem, and spirit explains why
(10:49):
they matter.
And when we stop insisting thatthose two things are separate,
we open ourselves up to the fulldepth of what it means to be
human.
And we arm ourselves with toolsthat help us navigate the
challenges that we inevitablyface in life.
So let science explain the how,if that helps to ground you.
(11:11):
But don't lose the wonder of thewhy, because sometimes what
looks like random things thatare happening, it's actually
life saying to you.
You're not alone.
You're on that path.
Keep going.
And so before we finish, if youwant to take this deeper, invite
you to sit with some of thesereflection prompts.
(11:35):
When you take some time, if youwant to pause, grab yourself a
journal, sit down, or after youlisten to this episode, jot down
these these prompts, and thensit down somewhere that feels
really serene and comforting andsoothing for you, and work your
way through some of theseprompts to just help you embody
and integrate what we've beentalking about.
(11:59):
So firstly, I want you to recalla sign that you yourself have
experienced.
So when was the last time thatyou noticed something, whether
it was a feather or a song witha special, lyric, a number,
something that felt like morethan a coincidence.
And when you can pinpoint whatthat was, write it down.
(12:20):
And then I want to bring yourawareness to your body,
connecting with that moment.
Can you remember how it felt inyour body at that time?
Did you feel warmth, expansionor relief?
Or maybe you felt a heaviness ora drop in your shoulders?
(12:41):
Just try to scan back andconnect with anything that
happened in your physical bodyin response to that sign.
And once you've got that, I'mgoing to invite you.
To now start paying attention tomoments like this moving
forward, the next time that youface a period of uncertainty,
(13:03):
try asking, okay, if theuniverse or my guides wanted to
reassure me right now, how mightthey show up?
And notice what unfolds in thehours or days ahead.
Dr.
Swart actually in her book, theSigns that's just about to come
out and in her interview wastalking about asking for very
(13:24):
specific signs.
So you can play around with thatand exercise that muscle.
You know, make it unique.
Make it something that's reallymeaningful to you, something
that's going to not happenfairly readily to, so that when
you, you come across it, itbecomes very clear to you, yes,
this is, this is for me, this isspeaking to me.
(13:47):
So I just wanna thank you forbeing here today, and if this
conversation resonated, I'd loveto share more with you.
I, I've just recently dropped afree micro course called The
Science of Spirituality.
Where I break down some researchback spiritual practices and
showcase a little bit aboutwhat's, what the science is
(14:08):
showing in terms of the rolethat spirituality plays in our
life.
all delivered in a bite-sized,easily digestible way that's
grounded and accessible.
You can find the, the course,the link.
In the show notes or through mywebsite on integrated wisdom.com
(14:30):
au.
And if you'd like more groundedtools and reflections like this,
I share them in my monthlynewsletter.
The Signal, um, it's where I goon, I go a bit deeper into the
intersection of psychology,spirituality, and science.
And you can find the link intothe show notes.
In the show notes as well, or onmy website.
You can subscribe to thenewsletter there.
(14:51):
So as always, thank you so muchfor listening and for daring to
live at the intersection ofscience and spirit.
Until next time, staydiscerning, stay curious, and
remember, you are neverdisconnected.
Only waiting to remember.
Bye.
(15:11):
Thank you for tuning into thisepisode of Integrated Wisdom.
It is my sincere wish that thisepisode may have intrigued and
inspired you to reclaim yourpower and step into becoming
more fully integrated spiritualbeings.
New episodes are published everysecond Wednesday, and I hope
that you'll continue to join usas we dive deeper into what it
(15:31):
means to live an integratedlife.
If this space has stirredsomething in you, I invite you
to subscribe, share it withthose attuned to this path, and
explore the full body ofwork@integratedwisdom.com au.
You can also find me onInstagram at Wisdom with
(15:53):
Tatiana, where the conversationcontinues.
Until next time, staydiscerning, stay curious, and
let this be your reminder.
You were never disconnected.
Only waiting to remember.
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