February 26, 2024 • 39 mins
In this episode, Matt & Jenn share their responses to a few anonymous questions posed by attendees at a recent Marriage Day in Austin, TX.
- What are some ways we can help prevent our children from feeling shame about sex in marriage to stop the feeling we were raised with?
- Is it OK for me time in a successful marriage?
- How to deal with past relationships interfering with current one… as in constantly comparing oneself to another…
- If I am disinclined toward sex and my spouse feels guilty for initiating (or vice versa), what can we do to improve our time spent on sexual intimacy?
- Is it a sin when saying no to sex due to the demands of the day?
- Is it OK to "keep a secret" from your spouse?
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Cherishing,
Matt & Jenn
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Intimate Covenant | Matt & Jenn Schmidt
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt (00:00):
Hey, jen wanna talk about keeping secrets from our spouses
.
I'll never tell Great.
Today we're tackling somequestions from our new friends
in Austin Texas, includingwhether or not it's okay to keep
a secret from your spouse.
Let's do it.
Welcome to the IntimateCovenant podcast, where we
(00:34):
believe the Bible and GreatMarried Sex both belong on your
kitchen table.
That's right.
We're talking about holycovenant-bound intimate
relationships with hot sex.
Jenn (00:44):
We are Madden Jen, founders of Intimate Covenant.
We offer biblical teaching andresources to help married
couples achieve a fullerrelationship and an
extraordinary sex life.
For more information, visit ourwebsite, IntimateCovenantcom.
Matt (01:01):
Welcome, friends.
Jenn (01:02):
Welcome.
Thanks for joining us on theIntimate Covenant podcast.
Matt (01:05):
So glad to have you along with us.
That's right, we are justreturning from a fabulous trip
to Austin, texas.
Jenn (01:13):
Yep, we got to spend the weekend there and Austin had a
wonderful marriage day onSaturday with our new friends in
the.
Austin Texas area.
That was great.
It's right down the road fromus, so we enjoyed getting to go
there and then getting to comehome easily.
Matt (01:29):
Yes, no airplanes involved , no TSA security.
That's right, not for this trip.
Jenn (01:35):
However, we're barely going to unpack the bags because
this coming weekend we'reheading to Tampa to do a
marriage date in Tampa, Florida.
Matt (01:44):
Yes, Tampa.
If you're in the area, in thegeneral Florida or Tampa area,
we would certainly love to seeyou.
There is still room to registerfor that event.
Go to IntimateCovenantcom andwe'll get you on the list and
get you there and hopefully beable to see you and hug your
neck as well.
Jenn (02:02):
That's right.
It's easy season for us.
Matt (02:04):
Yes, it is, but we're super excited about that
upcoming event.
We're excited and just reallyenergized from the time that we
spent in Austin.
We love it.
Lots of good things happening.
We did also want to mentionwhich we just completely slipped
my mind and failed to mentionthis last time.
We did an interview not thatlong ago with another podcast.
(02:25):
Yes, we were interviewed by thepodcast Upon their Shoulders.
That is a podcast with JakeSmith and Nick Weaver.
Jenn (02:35):
I love the name of their podcast Upon their.
Matt (02:38):
Shoulders, very thoughtful , and these are two very
thoughtful young men.
We met these two gentlemen whenwe were in St Louis for a
marriage day this past summer,got to know them a little bit
and we're just very impressed bythese two young men, but also
impressed by the fact that theyhave this great podcast.
You really should check it out.
(02:59):
These are two young men who arejust simply seeking wisdom and
counsel from older or maybewe'll just call it more
experienced Christians.
Matt, we fit that category weare both older and more
experienced than these young men.
But, that said, very impressedwith their podcast, also very
(03:20):
impressed with their mission.
But their goal with thispodcast is just to simply
interview more experiencedChristians and gain wisdom and
pass that on to the masses.
So very, very well done.
Podcast.
Jenn (03:35):
Yeah, we loved it.
We had a lovely conversationwith Jake and Nick and it was
really neat because both oftheir wives joined them for this
interview, which I think theyhad said that they had never
really done that.
So who knows, maybe theirlovely wives will get to be a
part of it, or maybe they don'twant to do it again, I'm with
you.
No, we got to spend some timealso with Katie and Lena, and so
(03:59):
it's just perfect.
We covered many topics.
It really kind of went all overthe board, but many topics,
including how to prioritize yourmarriage, especially in the
time when you're raising littleguys, which those two couples
are smack in the middle of that,and how to develop healthy
(04:19):
marriage habits and even how toeducate your children about sex.
So, really good topics.
It was a great interview.
One of the neat things they dowith their podcast is they
actually publish two versions.
Interesting.
Yes, so it's a neat kind offormat so you can check out the
extended full interview, whichwas right at an hour long, a
(04:40):
little bit over an hour, yes.
But then they also edit it down.
So if you need the, what's itcalled, the condensed version,
the Reader's Digest version andno, you're sounding old now.
Reader's Digest TLDR.
Matt (04:52):
That's it.
I knew it started with a T andit was a bunch of letters.
Jenn (04:56):
If you want that version, you can check that out as well.
So search for upon theirshoulders podcast and give them
a listen.
Matt (05:04):
They've got a lot of neat episodes out there, Highly
recommended.
The other thing we wanted toremind you about is retreat
registration opened up onValentine's Day and in just two
short weeks we are right at halfof our maximum capacity.
Jenn (05:20):
How crazy is that?
So if you are, first of all, ifyou're a regular and you come
to the retreat regularly and youhaven't signed up yet, you're
about to miss out, You're aboutto lose your spot to some of our
new folks.
No, but if this is somethingyou guys you would like to
participate in, this fall inSeptember, September 19th
(05:41):
through the 21st this year justknow you can't think about it
for too long.
Matt (05:47):
Yeah, we don't want you to miss this.
We don't want anybody to missit really, but we certainly
don't want anybody to miss itthat really wants to be there
yeah.
Jenn (05:54):
It requires a $200 deposit to hold your spot, and then the
rest is due later in August.
So you got plenty of time tosave your pennies.
If you need to.
Matt (06:03):
You have time to pay off but yeah, get your registration
in so that we can put you on thelist and save your spot.
We don't want you to miss it.
We'd love for you to be there.
Without much further ado, we dowant to share with you this
week our Q&A session from ourfabulous marriage day in Austin.
Jenn (06:20):
These couples had some great questions?
Matt (06:22):
They sure did, and unfortunately we just don't have
time in one episode to shareall of the questions that we
answered, but you are going toget an excerpt from that.
There's I don't know five orsix questions that we have
narrowed down, including somethings about how to prevent our
children from growing up withsexual shame.
We talked about me time, as itwere.
(06:47):
Is it okay to schedule some metime in our marriage?
How to deal with pastrelationships, as in if our
spouse has a past relationship,including a sexual relationship,
how do we manage that?
How do we deal with that?
We also talked about a spousewho might be not necessarily
(07:09):
fully inclined towards sex, howto maybe change that dynamic a
little bit.
And then, is it a sin to say noto sex?
That was another question wespent some time on that we want
to share our response with.
And then finally, as we alludedto in the opener, is it?
(07:30):
okay to keep a secret from myspouse.
Jenn (07:33):
Yeah, so great questions, some good questions and we hope
that you'll enjoy those answersand we'll see you on the other
side All right next questionwhat are some ways we can help
prevent our children fromfeeling shame about sex and
marriage, to stop the feeling wewere raised with?
(07:55):
And then there was anotherquestion about kids and I'm
going to link these two together.
Let me find it.
Matt (08:03):
What language or physical gestures are okay in front of
children?
Is that what you're thinking?
So kind of?
Two connected questions aboutchildren, and here's my short
answer is this is not aparenting class.
Next question, just kidding.
That said, we can't talkentirely about parenting and
(08:26):
interestingly enough, we'repreparing some material on kind
of better how to talk to yourkids about sex in a helpful way
that doesn't create all of theshameful barriers that many of
us grew up with.
Jenn (08:42):
So, first, how do we prevent our children from
feeling shame about sex andmarriage?
Well, it first starts with youhave to stop feeling shame about
your sexuality.
So it first starts with youperhaps redefining and better
understanding God's purpose forsex within marriage.
(09:03):
I mean again, god created sex,god loves sex.
He has a beautiful plan for sexwithin marriage, because it is
meant to be a spiritual comingtogether as much, if not more,
than a physical and emotionalcoming together.
So he had a beautiful plan, andso it first starts with
(09:26):
reeducating ourselves.
But then I think it's alsolearning how to embrace God's
plan and show our children thebeauty of God's plan.
I mean, satan is talking loudlyabout sex, isn't he?
Why are we allowing that?
(09:47):
We should be talking louder toour children.
So you have to believe that sexis beautiful in marriage and
then you have to startproclaiming that in your homes.
Matt (09:59):
I mean, my challenge to you is your kids should know
that you have a great sex lifeNow.
They don't need to know thedetails of when and where and
how.
Well, they probably know whereSometimes.
Jenn (10:16):
The tagline in our podcast is how do I say?
My brain just went blank.
Matt (10:21):
Where the Bible and great sex both belong in the kitchen
table.
Jenn (10:25):
To which, when our children learned of that tagline
, they were like what, justkidding?
Matt (10:32):
Now they won't be in the dining room.
But seriously, your kids shouldknow that you have a great sex
life.
Jenn (10:43):
If that alone makes you uncomfortable, there's your
place to start considering.
Why do I feel shame at thatthought?
Matt (10:51):
What better gift can you give to your kids than to
demonstrate for them somethingthat is fulfilling and godly and
holy and a beautiful gift?
What better gift can you passon to your kids than to show
them exactly what they shouldwant?
Do you not want for your kids abeautiful, meaningful,
(11:16):
connected sexual and marriagerelationship?
Is that not what you want foryour children?
Why do we hide it from them?
Why do we act like it'sshameful?
We teach kids that sex is sodirty and so dangerous that you
have to save it for the one thatyou love, and that makes no
sense to me.
(11:37):
It's beautiful.
So how does this happen?
This does not happen with onesingle awkward conversation when
they turn 12 or 13 years old.
Jenn (11:50):
Do not have the talk with your kids.
Instead, as one author put it,you should be having 1,001
minute conversations over thecourse of your kids life.
Now, the beauty of that is, ifyou mess up one of those 1,000
conversations, it's okay, I'mnot going to remember.
So yeah, some of us grew upwith a lot of silence and a lot
(12:13):
of shame, cloaking sex, and sowe don't really know what to say
Well, you don't have to say itperfectly, just start talking.
Yes, no matter how old, yourkids are Start talking.
Matt (12:26):
Silence is the currency of shame.
If you never talk about it,then what should they assume
about it?
That I shouldn't talk about iteither?
I should be ashamed of it aswell.
What teaching your kids aboutsex starts from the moment that
they have language, maybe beforeteaching them about who they
(12:47):
are, what parts do they have,what parts do they not have?
Giving them actual, real names,not stupid pet names for pee,
pee and potty and hoo, hoo andwhatever we say.
Give them actual names for whatthey are and what they have,
and that allows them to havelanguage.
(13:07):
Then, to have conversationswith you, you must be the expert
of sex in your household.
You must be the resource thatyour kids come to for answers.
Who else do you want talking tothem about sex?
Who else do you trust to givethem holy information about sex?
(13:30):
Because if they don't trust youbecause you haven't given them
answers their whole lives, theywill find someone else to give
them answers their friends atschool, the internet, their
teachers at school everybodyelse is more than happy to give
them advice on sex andrelationships, and the only way
(13:51):
they learn to trust you is ifyou are willing to give them
real answers and grapple withthe difficult questions within
you have to be the expert.
Jenn (14:06):
So what language or physical gestures are okay in
front of your children?
Well it's okay to make yourkids a little uncomfortable.
I'll tell you that I meanthat's why you have them right.
They're causing you a lot ofpain.
You might as well make themsquirm occasionally.
You need to see enough physicalconnection between the two of
(14:29):
you to know that a physicalaspect of your marriage exists
and that it is sacred betweenthe two of you.
Matt (14:41):
This next question is is it okay for me time in a
successful marriage?
Maybe we could word it morespecifically do extraordinary
lovers have me time?
I think the answer to that isyes.
It is, in fact, vitallyimportant for each of you to be
(15:06):
your own person.
That way, you can bringsomething that is even more
extraordinary to therelationship.
That said it's very easy andquick to justify selfishness as
being me time or mental health.
(15:28):
Me taking a mental health breaksometimes just is an excuse to
be selfish.
I'm not accusing anybody ofanything, I'm just saying that
is.
Beware.
Yeah, sometimes where that goes.
Jenn (15:45):
So think about what is my motivation for seeking me time.
It is absolutely okay to wantsomething that helps you let go
of the stress, detach fromstress of everyday life, but be
careful that you're not seekingsomething that keeps you from
(16:08):
connecting with your spouse.
Matt (16:11):
Is this me time ultimately resulting in better connection
with my spouse or worse?
If I'm going hunting everyweekend for three straight
months or if I'm playing golfevery time I have time off, is
(16:31):
that really benefiting myrelationship?
Maybe, if your spouse is aterrible person and you can't
stay and be around them, maybethat's good for you to be along,
but I don't think that's thesituation for any of you.
Jenn (16:44):
We encourage you to find ways that we can connect
together, even in things thatI'm not so interested in but my
spouse is interested in.
For instance, nat loves thebirds and the bees.
You're not surprised, but I feellike actual literal birds and
bees we have a beehive in ourbackyard, and we have a thousand
(17:08):
bird feeders, because this issomething that's interested in
Left.
To my own devices, I would notnecessarily care about these
things.
I have learned, though, to beinterested in what he is
interested in, and vice versa,and so I think that's an
important thing to look for waysthat you can connect together,
(17:29):
even when it's something thatyou're not inclined to
necessarily pursue yourself.
Matt (17:34):
Yeah, but is it okay to do something on your own?
I mean, one of the best thingsfor a young mom with 100 kids is
to give her a break for an houror a day or a weekend, but if
it's something that is requiredevery day or every weekend or
every month and you're notwilling to be a content and
(17:57):
happy spouse without it, maybeit's bordering on something that
is more selfish.
Jenn (18:08):
How does it deal with past relationships interfering with
current one, as in constantlycomparing oneself to another?
Matt (18:17):
Virtually all of us bring baggage into our marriage, some
of us more than others, and Idon't mean just sexual baggage,
although that obviously is areally important factor.
All of us bring baggage intoour relationships and sometimes
(18:38):
that baggage is the emotionaland spiritual and sexual
experiences that we have withsomeone who is not our spouse.
Now I would even suggest thatthere is baggage that you bring
into your relationship even fromhow you may have mishandled
(18:58):
your relationship prior to whenyou were married to the same
person.
But specifically in thisquestion, it went away
Specifically with this questionhow do you deal with your
(19:21):
spouse's past emotional andsexual history with someone that
is not you?
That's a reality that is oftena reality in our relationships.
I think the I don't want to callit a secret, but a really
(19:43):
important way to help deal withthat is to co-create something
that is unique to you, co-createsomething that is far better
than what your spouse could haveever had with someone else.
That takes time, that takeseffort, that takes making and
building multiple experiencestogether, but ultimately that is
(20:07):
something that is going tooutlast and outshine and outlive
anything your spouse could havehad before and focus in on and
concentrate on the fact that,ultimately, your spouse is here
with you in this moment, anddon't let their past overshadow
(20:27):
what you have the opportunity tocreate today.
Now, if you or your spouse havea sexual past, that is always
going to be a shadow in yourcurrent relationship, but it
doesn't have to be somethingthat lingers and is this
overwhelming presence?
Jenn (20:49):
You can redeem that.
Matt (20:51):
Again, yes, and that's the perfect use of that word you
can buy it back.
You can redeem it for somethingthat is far more valuable, far
more precious, far moreimpactful in what you have today
.
But you've got to be willing to, and sometimes it's about
(21:12):
having a conversation.
Having that conversation is sodifficult Because sometimes it
even feels a little bit like abetrayal and in some sense it is
.
But getting past that is goingto require acknowledgement of
(21:32):
what is there and what it meansto both of you, and then
establishing ways that you'regoing to build something that's
bigger and better than what youmight have had before.
Co-create something thatoutshines you.
If I am disinclined towards sexand my spouse feels guilty for
(21:59):
initiating, or vice versa, whatcan we do to improve our time
spent on sexual intimacy?
Jenn (22:07):
This question hits home because I could have been the
one asking this question tenyears ago in our marriage.
Ten years ago, I could havetaken or leavened sex.
Sure, the occasional date night, the occasional weekend was
great, but in general, on aTuesday night, where was my
(22:29):
sexual desire?
Long gone.
I wasn't interested and Ithought well right, marriage is
where sex goes to die.
I mean, what do I do?
I will tell you that I had tolearn that the truth of the
(22:49):
answer was it's had to startwith me.
It had to start with me sayingwhy am I disinclined towards sex
?
And yeah, hormones could play apart in that.
Little kids are playing a partin that.
Matt (23:02):
There's a lot of stress exhaustion, yeah, all of those
things that play a part in that.
Jenn (23:07):
But ultimately the real answer lay within me.
First it wasn't what he coulddo to make my sexual desire and
arousal all of a sudden relight.
It had to first start with meleaning into why don't I want
(23:28):
sex anymore?
And challenging whether or notthat was okay.
I had settled that sex wasn'treally all that important and
somehow that I had convincedmyself that that was okay.
But then I had to learn I sawthe results of that in my
marriage that we weren't where Iwould want us to be.
Matt (23:50):
And sometimes you become disinclined towards sex because
the sex that you're having isjust not worth having.
Like, if I'm getting nothingout of it, if I'm getting no
connection, if I'm just a body,if I'm just perceived that way
or that's sometimes that's how Iam perceiving myself is just a
body, then of course I'mdisinclined because it's not
(24:13):
worth having.
Why would I want?
Why?
How can I learn to desiresomething that's terrible?
I mean, that's a hard ask.
So sometimes that means you'vegot to speak up and have a voice
in what you're co-creating andrecognize that the sex that
you're having is not worthhaving because you don't feel
(24:33):
connected or you're not havingor you're not getting pleasure.
Jenn (24:39):
It has nothing to do with what's happening in the bedroom
and everything to do with what'snot happening outside of the
bedroom.
Yes, maybe you're disinclinedtowards sex because you have no
emotional connection to oneanother anymore, and so I know.
The question is what can we doto improve our time spent on
(24:59):
sexual intimacy?
But first it starts with whatcan you do to change?
Don't settle for beingdisinclined towards sex.
Don't stay there, don't settle.
Matt (25:14):
But if you're willing to view the purpose of sex as
connection, then there's anopportunity for everybody to get
what they need every time, nomatter how it all plays out in
the specifics, or even whathappens or doesn't happen.
There's always an opportunityfor connection if you're both
(25:38):
looking for it.
Jenn (25:39):
So maybe my body won't respond to this in a way that I
would love for my body torespond.
Okay, that might be true, butthat doesn't mean that I can't
feel connected to my beloved.
One day, your bodies will wearout, but you can still have
(26:02):
connected sex if you both seethe true purpose and value of
sex.
Matt (26:09):
I think one of the most important pieces of advice for
someone who is struggling todesire sex is to find one thing
about a sexual encounter thatyou can look forward to.
What is one thing and sometimesit's just what is one place
(26:32):
where I can feel connected.
What is one smell?
I just look forward to smellingmy spouse's hair, or I just
look forward to feeling themagainst my skin, or I just look
forward to.
Jenn (26:46):
I like the way their eyes look.
Matt (26:48):
I love.
Jenn (26:48):
Yes, I like the way this feels.
Find I like the way the voicesounds, find one thing that you
like and then learn to think onand dwell on and anticipate that
I can't wait for this one thing, whatever it is.
Now I say a lot of us who havehad periods of feeling
disinclined towards sex isbecause we put are putting zero
(27:12):
effort into being inclinedtowards sex.
So what changed things for meis I started yes, I relearned
what sex was really all about,but I also started forcing
myself and being intentionalabout thinking about sex.
My brain didn't immediately justthink about sex, and so I had
(27:33):
to do the work of first startingthe conversation in my own head
, forcing myself to name what issomething that I like about
this, forcing myself to picturewhat would a great experience
with one another look like, andthen letting my mind start the
work of inclining my bodytowards it, because a woman's
(27:57):
greatest and biggest sex organis her brain, and if you've not
engaged your brain, the rest ofyour body isn't very likely to
follow.
So do you want to speak realquickly to the spouse that might
feel guilty for initiating?
Matt (28:16):
So if you are a sexual pursuer and your spouse is
either intentionally orunintentionally not catching
your bids and you are feelingrejected, or you're just a nice
(28:40):
guy who recognizes that there isa lot on your spouse's plate
raising kids or being pregnant,or there's hundreds of reasons
why your spouse may bedisinclined Then you know it.
You know when your spouse isjust not into it.
(29:00):
Trust me Spouses that are notinto it, your spouse knows when
they're not into it.
Just like you know when they'renot paying attention to what
you're saying, just like youknow they're not hearing the
questions that you're asking.
You know that they aren'tpaying attention to you when you
ask them to take out the trash.
You know when your spouse isn'tinto it, whatever it is.
(29:23):
Whatever it is, when you knowyour spouse is not into it, does
that make you motivated to askagain?
No, it doesn't.
Even when they say yes, butthey're not into it, you're
going to feel bad about askingagain.
So my advice is stop acceptingmercy sex.
(29:52):
By mercy sex I mean the kind ofsex where one or both of you is
just not into it.
Stop accepting it and confrontit.
Say, hey, I noticed you're notreally into it.
Maybe sometimes in the moment,like hey, I know you're not into
(30:12):
it, I get it.
Maybe this day is not the righttime.
Maybe you said yes because youfeel sorry for me, but that's
not the kind of connection thatI'm looking for.
Let's find another way toconnect, either in this moment
or next time or whatever it is.
Let's find another way toconnect.
Maybe that's emotionally, maybethat's praying together, maybe
(30:32):
that's cuddling, maybe that'sanother kind of physical
intimacy, maybe that's somethingelse, maybe it's this kind of
sex that just doesn't require asmuch physical effort for her or
him.
Maybe it's finding other waysto connect.
But don't stop initiatingconnection.
(30:56):
But you've got to co-createsomething that is worth having
Both of you can enjoy, whereboth of you can connect.
Jenn (31:09):
Is it a sin when saying no to sex due to the demands of
the day?
Matt (31:16):
First of all, say no or declining a bid for sex one time
on one day does not violate 1stCorinthians 7.
That says do not deprive oneanother.
Let me just be clear about that.
You are not being deprived ofsex if your spouse says I can't
(31:37):
do it tonight.
Let's be very clear about that.
That said, I would encourageyou as much as it is within your
power, to never say no.
Sometimes, though, that lookslike I'm not saying no, but I am
saying it'll be better if wewait till tomorrow.
Jenn (32:00):
So here's what I can offer you tonight, but tomorrow,
here's what I could offer, andthen you two together have a
choice.
This is the level of connectionI have available in my physical
body tonight, but tomorrownight or Friday night, after we
get a babysitter and we putforth some effort to create a
(32:23):
lot of alone time together, thisis the level, and so sometimes
it's worth the wait.
Sometimes later is the answer.
Yes, that will work best for us, but sometimes it's I really
need, I want a place ofconnection with us tonight, and
so you connect on the Tuesdaynight level of connection.
(32:43):
But you also know the Fridaynight level of connection is
coming later.
It's about seeing each otherand being willing to connect
with one another.
Here to go, matt referred tomercy sex.
We define that as one of youjust showing up as a body.
Stop just showing up as a body.
(33:05):
Why is it is not doing yourwifely duty.
You don't keep your husbandfrom straying by giving him sex.
That is not connected sex.
That is not what God had inmind.
First of all, it's yourhusband's job to keep himself
pure, not yours.
But it is your job to seekregular connection with your
(33:30):
beloved.
That looks different ondifferent nights, doesn't it?
So sometimes it's not thatyou're saying no, it's that
you're saying later, or thatyou're saying this is the level
tonight, the later it could bethis.
Now, if your later keepsbecoming later, later, later,
later, then you need to leaninto what's happening there.
Matt (33:53):
And I think this is where for sexual pursuers.
This is why it's so importantfor you to be very explicit
about initiating.
Just asking your wife to havesex with you is not a very good
question, unless you're veryclear about what your
expectations are, because thatmight mean I want to have sex
with you by hanging from thechandeliers, upside down and
(34:15):
backwards for six hours untilthe dawn.
Or it might mean I just want toconnect with you in a very
quick and easy way.
But I really need some kind ofconnection tonight, and I'm not
expecting fireworks, I'm justexpecting connection.
Aren't those two differentquestions?
(34:37):
But we, as pursuers sometimesuse the same words to ask those
two questions.
No wonder our wife says no orour spouse says no because they
don't know what they're agreeingto.
So be explicit about what yourexpectations are.
Like you know, honey, I justwant to be together tonight,
(34:57):
whatever that looks like, orsometimes I'm really looking
forward to something reallyextravagant.
Is tonight the best night forthat, or should I set my
expectations for sometime else?
Be clear about your initiationand both of you will benefit All
right, these next two questionsI think go together.
Jenn (35:22):
Maybe they only go together in my brain.
Matt (35:23):
No, they definitely do.
Jenn (35:25):
Is it okay to keep a secret from your spouse?
And then should men avoidsharing personal struggles with
their wives to maintain respectand love, seeking support from a
sound brotherhood group instead.
Matt (35:40):
Good questions.
Unless it's a surprise birthdaygift, I would say it's probably
never a good idea to keep asecret from your spouse.
If you are keeping secrets fromyour spouse, you are not one,
and that, to me, is the mostfundamental definition of
(36:02):
marriage, all the way back inGenesis 2.
That God joined them togetheras one, one flesh.
Even specifically, if you'rekeeping secrets from your spouse
, you're not one, and I get it,and I used to fall into this the
(36:23):
same way.
Oh, my wife is so busy andshe's so overwhelmed and I'm
dealing with all these otherthings and I don't want to
burden her with anything else.
That is, that's garbage.
You don't want to burden herbecause you don't want to deal
with the shame of confrontingyour own weaknesses.
(36:45):
Your wife is a big girl.
She is a grown up person.
She is more than capable ofdealing with your problems and
hers.
Jenn (36:58):
How can she be your helpmate if you're not letting
her be your helpmate?
Isn't that what she's called to?
To be your sustainer beside?
How can she do that if you'redenying her that the access to
who you really are, what it isyou really struggle with?
Matt (37:23):
Now, is there value in having a trusted brotherhood
that can support you and holdyou accountable?
Absolutely.
There's a way in which a mancan hold another man accountable
that your wife is incapable ofdoing.
I get that, but if yourbrotherhood knows more about you
than your wife does, you'remarried to the wrong person.
(37:45):
You're not protecting your wifeby withholding secrets from her
.
You're shielding her out ofyour life and you are being
selfishly unmanly by notadmitting and dealing with your
(38:08):
weaknesses and having her help.
You hold you accountable.
All right, sermon over Janice.
Thanks again for joining us.
We would love to have yourfeedback on this episode, on
these questions in particular.
Did we get them right?
(38:28):
Do you have some suggestions orfeedback?
We would love to hear from you.
You can contact us by emailingus at podcast at intimate
covenant dot com, or to submitan anonymous feedback or
question.
Go to intimate covenant dot com, slash podcast and click the
button Contact the podcast foran anonymous submission form.
Jenn (38:49):
Thanks to all of you for listening, subscribing, rating
and sharing the podcast.
We're truly humbled by all yourencouragement and support.
Thanks especially to ourPatreon subscribers for coming
alongside us in a very real way.
If intimate covenant hasblessed you and your marriage,
we'd love to have you join ustoo.
Subscribe at patreoncom.
(39:10):
Slash intimate covenant.
Matt (39:13):
So next time, as always, keep striving and don't settle.
Hey, jen wanna talk about keeping secrets from our spouses
.
I'll never tell Great.
Today we're tackling somequestions from our new friends
in Austin Texas, includingwhether or not it's okay to keep
a secret from your spouse.
Let's do it.
Welcome to the IntimateCovenant podcast, where we
(00:34):
believe the Bible and GreatMarried Sex both belong on your
kitchen table.
That's right.
We're talking about holycovenant-bound intimate
relationships with hot sex.
Jenn (00:44):
We are Madden Jen, founders of Intimate Covenant.
We offer biblical teaching andresources to help married
couples achieve a fullerrelationship and an
extraordinary sex life.
For more information, visit ourwebsite, IntimateCovenantcom.
Matt (01:01):
Welcome, friends.
Jenn (01:02):
Welcome.
Thanks for joining us on theIntimate Covenant podcast.
Matt (01:05):
So glad to have you along with us.
That's right, we are justreturning from a fabulous trip
to Austin, texas.
Jenn (01:13):
Yep, we got to spend the weekend there and Austin had a
wonderful marriage day onSaturday with our new friends in
the.
Austin Texas area.
That was great.
It's right down the road fromus, so we enjoyed getting to go
there and then getting to comehome easily.
Matt (01:29):
Yes, no airplanes involved , no TSA security.
That's right, not for this trip.
Jenn (01:35):
However, we're barely going to unpack the bags because
this coming weekend we'reheading to Tampa to do a
marriage date in Tampa, Florida.
Matt (01:44):
Yes, Tampa.
If you're in the area, in thegeneral Florida or Tampa area,
we would certainly love to seeyou.
There is still room to registerfor that event.
Go to IntimateCovenantcom andwe'll get you on the list and
get you there and hopefully beable to see you and hug your
neck as well.
Jenn (02:02):
That's right.
It's easy season for us.
Matt (02:04):
Yes, it is, but we're super excited about that
upcoming event.
We're excited and just reallyenergized from the time that we
spent in Austin.
We love it.
Lots of good things happening.
We did also want to mentionwhich we just completely slipped
my mind and failed to mentionthis last time.
We did an interview not thatlong ago with another podcast.
(02:25):
Yes, we were interviewed by thepodcast Upon their Shoulders.
That is a podcast with JakeSmith and Nick Weaver.
Jenn (02:35):
I love the name of their podcast Upon their.
Matt (02:38):
Shoulders, very thoughtful , and these are two very
thoughtful young men.
We met these two gentlemen whenwe were in St Louis for a
marriage day this past summer,got to know them a little bit
and we're just very impressed bythese two young men, but also
impressed by the fact that theyhave this great podcast.
You really should check it out.
(02:59):
These are two young men who arejust simply seeking wisdom and
counsel from older or maybewe'll just call it more
experienced Christians.
Matt, we fit that category weare both older and more
experienced than these young men.
But, that said, very impressedwith their podcast, also very
(03:20):
impressed with their mission.
But their goal with thispodcast is just to simply
interview more experiencedChristians and gain wisdom and
pass that on to the masses.
So very, very well done.
Podcast.
Jenn (03:35):
Yeah, we loved it.
We had a lovely conversationwith Jake and Nick and it was
really neat because both oftheir wives joined them for this
interview, which I think theyhad said that they had never
really done that.
So who knows, maybe theirlovely wives will get to be a
part of it, or maybe they don'twant to do it again, I'm with
you.
No, we got to spend some timealso with Katie and Lena, and so
(03:59):
it's just perfect.
We covered many topics.
It really kind of went all overthe board, but many topics,
including how to prioritize yourmarriage, especially in the
time when you're raising littleguys, which those two couples
are smack in the middle of that,and how to develop healthy
(04:19):
marriage habits and even how toeducate your children about sex.
So, really good topics.
It was a great interview.
One of the neat things they dowith their podcast is they
actually publish two versions.
Interesting.
Yes, so it's a neat kind offormat so you can check out the
extended full interview, whichwas right at an hour long, a
(04:40):
little bit over an hour, yes.
But then they also edit it down.
So if you need the, what's itcalled, the condensed version,
the Reader's Digest version andno, you're sounding old now.
Reader's Digest TLDR.
Matt (04:52):
That's it.
I knew it started with a T andit was a bunch of letters.
Jenn (04:56):
If you want that version, you can check that out as well.
So search for upon theirshoulders podcast and give them
a listen.
Matt (05:04):
They've got a lot of neat episodes out there, Highly
recommended.
The other thing we wanted toremind you about is retreat
registration opened up onValentine's Day and in just two
short weeks we are right at halfof our maximum capacity.
Jenn (05:20):
How crazy is that?
So if you are, first of all, ifyou're a regular and you come
to the retreat regularly and youhaven't signed up yet, you're
about to miss out, You're aboutto lose your spot to some of our
new folks.
No, but if this is somethingyou guys you would like to
participate in, this fall inSeptember, September 19th
(05:41):
through the 21st this year justknow you can't think about it
for too long.
Matt (05:47):
Yeah, we don't want you to miss this.
We don't want anybody to missit really, but we certainly
don't want anybody to miss itthat really wants to be there
yeah.
Jenn (05:54):
It requires a $200 deposit to hold your spot, and then the
rest is due later in August.
So you got plenty of time tosave your pennies.
If you need to.
Matt (06:03):
You have time to pay off but yeah, get your registration
in so that we can put you on thelist and save your spot.
We don't want you to miss it.
We'd love for you to be there.
Without much further ado, we dowant to share with you this
week our Q&A session from ourfabulous marriage day in Austin.
Jenn (06:20):
These couples had some great questions?
Matt (06:22):
They sure did, and unfortunately we just don't have
time in one episode to shareall of the questions that we
answered, but you are going toget an excerpt from that.
There's I don't know five orsix questions that we have
narrowed down, including somethings about how to prevent our
children from growing up withsexual shame.
We talked about me time, as itwere.
(06:47):
Is it okay to schedule some metime in our marriage?
How to deal with pastrelationships, as in if our
spouse has a past relationship,including a sexual relationship,
how do we manage that?
How do we deal with that?
We also talked about a spousewho might be not necessarily
(07:09):
fully inclined towards sex, howto maybe change that dynamic a
little bit.
And then, is it a sin to say noto sex?
That was another question wespent some time on that we want
to share our response with.
And then finally, as we alludedto in the opener, is it?
(07:30):
okay to keep a secret from myspouse.
Jenn (07:33):
Yeah, so great questions, some good questions and we hope
that you'll enjoy those answersand we'll see you on the other
side All right next questionwhat are some ways we can help
prevent our children fromfeeling shame about sex and
marriage, to stop the feeling wewere raised with?
(07:55):
And then there was anotherquestion about kids and I'm
going to link these two together.
Let me find it.
Matt (08:03):
What language or physical gestures are okay in front of
children?
Is that what you're thinking?
So kind of?
Two connected questions aboutchildren, and here's my short
answer is this is not aparenting class.
Next question, just kidding.
That said, we can't talkentirely about parenting and
(08:26):
interestingly enough, we'repreparing some material on kind
of better how to talk to yourkids about sex in a helpful way
that doesn't create all of theshameful barriers that many of
us grew up with.
Jenn (08:42):
So, first, how do we prevent our children from
feeling shame about sex andmarriage?
Well, it first starts with youhave to stop feeling shame about
your sexuality.
So it first starts with youperhaps redefining and better
understanding God's purpose forsex within marriage.
(09:03):
I mean again, god created sex,god loves sex.
He has a beautiful plan for sexwithin marriage, because it is
meant to be a spiritual comingtogether as much, if not more,
than a physical and emotionalcoming together.
So he had a beautiful plan, andso it first starts with
(09:26):
reeducating ourselves.
But then I think it's alsolearning how to embrace God's
plan and show our children thebeauty of God's plan.
I mean, satan is talking loudlyabout sex, isn't he?
Why are we allowing that?
(09:47):
We should be talking louder toour children.
So you have to believe that sexis beautiful in marriage and
then you have to startproclaiming that in your homes.
Matt (09:59):
I mean, my challenge to you is your kids should know
that you have a great sex lifeNow.
They don't need to know thedetails of when and where and
how.
Well, they probably know whereSometimes.
Jenn (10:16):
The tagline in our podcast is how do I say?
My brain just went blank.
Matt (10:21):
Where the Bible and great sex both belong in the kitchen
table.
Jenn (10:25):
To which, when our children learned of that tagline
, they were like what, justkidding?
Matt (10:32):
Now they won't be in the dining room.
But seriously, your kids shouldknow that you have a great sex
life.
Jenn (10:43):
If that alone makes you uncomfortable, there's your
place to start considering.
Why do I feel shame at thatthought?
Matt (10:51):
What better gift can you give to your kids than to
demonstrate for them somethingthat is fulfilling and godly and
holy and a beautiful gift?
What better gift can you passon to your kids than to show
them exactly what they shouldwant?
Do you not want for your kids abeautiful, meaningful,
(11:16):
connected sexual and marriagerelationship?
Is that not what you want foryour children?
Why do we hide it from them?
Why do we act like it'sshameful?
We teach kids that sex is sodirty and so dangerous that you
have to save it for the one thatyou love, and that makes no
sense to me.
(11:37):
It's beautiful.
So how does this happen?
This does not happen with onesingle awkward conversation when
they turn 12 or 13 years old.
Jenn (11:50):
Do not have the talk with your kids.
Instead, as one author put it,you should be having 1,001
minute conversations over thecourse of your kids life.
Now, the beauty of that is, ifyou mess up one of those 1,000
conversations, it's okay, I'mnot going to remember.
So yeah, some of us grew upwith a lot of silence and a lot
(12:13):
of shame, cloaking sex, and sowe don't really know what to say
Well, you don't have to say itperfectly, just start talking.
Yes, no matter how old, yourkids are Start talking.
Matt (12:26):
Silence is the currency of shame.
If you never talk about it,then what should they assume
about it?
That I shouldn't talk about iteither?
I should be ashamed of it aswell.
What teaching your kids aboutsex starts from the moment that
they have language, maybe beforeteaching them about who they
(12:47):
are, what parts do they have,what parts do they not have?
Giving them actual, real names,not stupid pet names for pee,
pee and potty and hoo, hoo andwhatever we say.
Give them actual names for whatthey are and what they have,
and that allows them to havelanguage.
(13:07):
Then, to have conversationswith you, you must be the expert
of sex in your household.
You must be the resource thatyour kids come to for answers.
Who else do you want talking tothem about sex?
Who else do you trust to givethem holy information about sex?
(13:30):
Because if they don't trust youbecause you haven't given them
answers their whole lives, theywill find someone else to give
them answers their friends atschool, the internet, their
teachers at school everybodyelse is more than happy to give
them advice on sex andrelationships, and the only way
(13:51):
they learn to trust you is ifyou are willing to give them
real answers and grapple withthe difficult questions within
you have to be the expert.
Jenn (14:06):
So what language or physical gestures are okay in
front of your children?
Well it's okay to make yourkids a little uncomfortable.
I'll tell you that I meanthat's why you have them right.
They're causing you a lot ofpain.
You might as well make themsquirm occasionally.
You need to see enough physicalconnection between the two of
(14:29):
you to know that a physicalaspect of your marriage exists
and that it is sacred betweenthe two of you.
Matt (14:41):
This next question is is it okay for me time in a
successful marriage?
Maybe we could word it morespecifically do extraordinary
lovers have me time?
I think the answer to that isyes.
It is, in fact, vitallyimportant for each of you to be
(15:06):
your own person.
That way, you can bringsomething that is even more
extraordinary to therelationship.
That said it's very easy andquick to justify selfishness as
being me time or mental health.
(15:28):
Me taking a mental health breaksometimes just is an excuse to
be selfish.
I'm not accusing anybody ofanything, I'm just saying that
is.
Beware.
Yeah, sometimes where that goes.
Jenn (15:45):
So think about what is my motivation for seeking me time.
It is absolutely okay to wantsomething that helps you let go
of the stress, detach fromstress of everyday life, but be
careful that you're not seekingsomething that keeps you from
(16:08):
connecting with your spouse.
Matt (16:11):
Is this me time ultimately resulting in better connection
with my spouse or worse?
If I'm going hunting everyweekend for three straight
months or if I'm playing golfevery time I have time off, is
(16:31):
that really benefiting myrelationship?
Maybe, if your spouse is aterrible person and you can't
stay and be around them, maybethat's good for you to be along,
but I don't think that's thesituation for any of you.
Jenn (16:44):
We encourage you to find ways that we can connect
together, even in things thatI'm not so interested in but my
spouse is interested in.
For instance, nat loves thebirds and the bees.
You're not surprised, but I feellike actual literal birds and
bees we have a beehive in ourbackyard, and we have a thousand
(17:08):
bird feeders, because this issomething that's interested in
Left.
To my own devices, I would notnecessarily care about these
things.
I have learned, though, to beinterested in what he is
interested in, and vice versa,and so I think that's an
important thing to look for waysthat you can connect together,
(17:29):
even when it's something thatyou're not inclined to
necessarily pursue yourself.
Matt (17:34):
Yeah, but is it okay to do something on your own?
I mean, one of the best thingsfor a young mom with 100 kids is
to give her a break for an houror a day or a weekend, but if
it's something that is requiredevery day or every weekend or
every month and you're notwilling to be a content and
(17:57):
happy spouse without it, maybeit's bordering on something that
is more selfish.
Jenn (18:08):
How does it deal with past relationships interfering with
current one, as in constantlycomparing oneself to another?
Matt (18:17):
Virtually all of us bring baggage into our marriage, some
of us more than others, and Idon't mean just sexual baggage,
although that obviously is areally important factor.
All of us bring baggage intoour relationships and sometimes
(18:38):
that baggage is the emotionaland spiritual and sexual
experiences that we have withsomeone who is not our spouse.
Now I would even suggest thatthere is baggage that you bring
into your relationship even fromhow you may have mishandled
(18:58):
your relationship prior to whenyou were married to the same
person.
But specifically in thisquestion, it went away
Specifically with this questionhow do you deal with your
(19:21):
spouse's past emotional andsexual history with someone that
is not you?
That's a reality that is oftena reality in our relationships.
I think the I don't want to callit a secret, but a really
(19:43):
important way to help deal withthat is to co-create something
that is unique to you, co-createsomething that is far better
than what your spouse could haveever had with someone else.
That takes time, that takeseffort, that takes making and
building multiple experiencestogether, but ultimately that is
(20:07):
something that is going tooutlast and outshine and outlive
anything your spouse could havehad before and focus in on and
concentrate on the fact that,ultimately, your spouse is here
with you in this moment, anddon't let their past overshadow
(20:27):
what you have the opportunity tocreate today.
Now, if you or your spouse havea sexual past, that is always
going to be a shadow in yourcurrent relationship, but it
doesn't have to be somethingthat lingers and is this
overwhelming presence?
Jenn (20:49):
You can redeem that.
Matt (20:51):
Again, yes, and that's the perfect use of that word you
can buy it back.
You can redeem it for somethingthat is far more valuable, far
more precious, far moreimpactful in what you have today
.
But you've got to be willing to, and sometimes it's about
(21:12):
having a conversation.
Having that conversation is sodifficult Because sometimes it
even feels a little bit like abetrayal and in some sense it is
.
But getting past that is goingto require acknowledgement of
(21:32):
what is there and what it meansto both of you, and then
establishing ways that you'regoing to build something that's
bigger and better than what youmight have had before.
Co-create something thatoutshines you.
If I am disinclined towards sexand my spouse feels guilty for
(21:59):
initiating, or vice versa, whatcan we do to improve our time
spent on sexual intimacy?
Jenn (22:07):
This question hits home because I could have been the
one asking this question tenyears ago in our marriage.
Ten years ago, I could havetaken or leavened sex.
Sure, the occasional date night, the occasional weekend was
great, but in general, on aTuesday night, where was my
(22:29):
sexual desire?
Long gone.
I wasn't interested and Ithought well right, marriage is
where sex goes to die.
I mean, what do I do?
I will tell you that I had tolearn that the truth of the
(22:49):
answer was it's had to startwith me.
It had to start with me sayingwhy am I disinclined towards sex
?
And yeah, hormones could play apart in that.
Little kids are playing a partin that.
Matt (23:02):
There's a lot of stress exhaustion, yeah, all of those
things that play a part in that.
Jenn (23:07):
But ultimately the real answer lay within me.
First it wasn't what he coulddo to make my sexual desire and
arousal all of a sudden relight.
It had to first start with meleaning into why don't I want
(23:28):
sex anymore?
And challenging whether or notthat was okay.
I had settled that sex wasn'treally all that important and
somehow that I had convincedmyself that that was okay.
But then I had to learn I sawthe results of that in my
marriage that we weren't where Iwould want us to be.
Matt (23:50):
And sometimes you become disinclined towards sex because
the sex that you're having isjust not worth having.
Like, if I'm getting nothingout of it, if I'm getting no
connection, if I'm just a body,if I'm just perceived that way
or that's sometimes that's how Iam perceiving myself is just a
body, then of course I'mdisinclined because it's not
(24:13):
worth having.
Why would I want?
Why?
How can I learn to desiresomething that's terrible?
I mean, that's a hard ask.
So sometimes that means you'vegot to speak up and have a voice
in what you're co-creating andrecognize that the sex that
you're having is not worthhaving because you don't feel
(24:33):
connected or you're not havingor you're not getting pleasure.
Jenn (24:39):
It has nothing to do with what's happening in the bedroom
and everything to do with what'snot happening outside of the
bedroom.
Yes, maybe you're disinclinedtowards sex because you have no
emotional connection to oneanother anymore, and so I know.
The question is what can we doto improve our time spent on
(24:59):
sexual intimacy?
But first it starts with whatcan you do to change?
Don't settle for beingdisinclined towards sex.
Don't stay there, don't settle.
Matt (25:14):
But if you're willing to view the purpose of sex as
connection, then there's anopportunity for everybody to get
what they need every time, nomatter how it all plays out in
the specifics, or even whathappens or doesn't happen.
There's always an opportunityfor connection if you're both
(25:38):
looking for it.
Jenn (25:39):
So maybe my body won't respond to this in a way that I
would love for my body torespond.
Okay, that might be true, butthat doesn't mean that I can't
feel connected to my beloved.
One day, your bodies will wearout, but you can still have
(26:02):
connected sex if you both seethe true purpose and value of
sex.
Matt (26:09):
I think one of the most important pieces of advice for
someone who is struggling todesire sex is to find one thing
about a sexual encounter thatyou can look forward to.
What is one thing and sometimesit's just what is one place
(26:32):
where I can feel connected.
What is one smell?
I just look forward to smellingmy spouse's hair, or I just
look forward to feeling themagainst my skin, or I just look
forward to.
Jenn (26:46):
I like the way their eyes look.
Matt (26:48):
I love.
Jenn (26:48):
Yes, I like the way this feels.
Find I like the way the voicesounds, find one thing that you
like and then learn to think onand dwell on and anticipate that
I can't wait for this one thing, whatever it is.
Now I say a lot of us who havehad periods of feeling
disinclined towards sex isbecause we put are putting zero
(27:12):
effort into being inclinedtowards sex.
So what changed things for meis I started yes, I relearned
what sex was really all about,but I also started forcing
myself and being intentionalabout thinking about sex.
My brain didn't immediately justthink about sex, and so I had
(27:33):
to do the work of first startingthe conversation in my own head
, forcing myself to name what issomething that I like about
this, forcing myself to picturewhat would a great experience
with one another look like, andthen letting my mind start the
work of inclining my bodytowards it, because a woman's
(27:57):
greatest and biggest sex organis her brain, and if you've not
engaged your brain, the rest ofyour body isn't very likely to
follow.
So do you want to speak realquickly to the spouse that might
feel guilty for initiating?
Matt (28:16):
So if you are a sexual pursuer and your spouse is
either intentionally orunintentionally not catching
your bids and you are feelingrejected, or you're just a nice
(28:40):
guy who recognizes that there isa lot on your spouse's plate
raising kids or being pregnant,or there's hundreds of reasons
why your spouse may bedisinclined Then you know it.
You know when your spouse isjust not into it.
(29:00):
Trust me Spouses that are notinto it, your spouse knows when
they're not into it.
Just like you know when they'renot paying attention to what
you're saying, just like youknow they're not hearing the
questions that you're asking.
You know that they aren'tpaying attention to you when you
ask them to take out the trash.
You know when your spouse isn'tinto it, whatever it is.
(29:23):
Whatever it is, when you knowyour spouse is not into it, does
that make you motivated to askagain?
No, it doesn't.
Even when they say yes, butthey're not into it, you're
going to feel bad about askingagain.
So my advice is stop acceptingmercy sex.
(29:52):
By mercy sex I mean the kind ofsex where one or both of you is
just not into it.
Stop accepting it and confrontit.
Say, hey, I noticed you're notreally into it.
Maybe sometimes in the moment,like hey, I know you're not into
(30:12):
it, I get it.
Maybe this day is not the righttime.
Maybe you said yes because youfeel sorry for me, but that's
not the kind of connection thatI'm looking for.
Let's find another way toconnect, either in this moment
or next time or whatever it is.
Let's find another way toconnect.
Maybe that's emotionally, maybethat's praying together, maybe
(30:32):
that's cuddling, maybe that'sanother kind of physical
intimacy, maybe that's somethingelse, maybe it's this kind of
sex that just doesn't require asmuch physical effort for her or
him.
Maybe it's finding other waysto connect.
But don't stop initiatingconnection.
(30:56):
But you've got to co-createsomething that is worth having
Both of you can enjoy, whereboth of you can connect.
Jenn (31:09):
Is it a sin when saying no to sex due to the demands of
the day?
Matt (31:16):
First of all, say no or declining a bid for sex one time
on one day does not violate 1stCorinthians 7.
That says do not deprive oneanother.
Let me just be clear about that.
You are not being deprived ofsex if your spouse says I can't
(31:37):
do it tonight.
Let's be very clear about that.
That said, I would encourageyou as much as it is within your
power, to never say no.
Sometimes, though, that lookslike I'm not saying no, but I am
saying it'll be better if wewait till tomorrow.
Jenn (32:00):
So here's what I can offer you tonight, but tomorrow,
here's what I could offer, andthen you two together have a
choice.
This is the level of connectionI have available in my physical
body tonight, but tomorrownight or Friday night, after we
get a babysitter and we putforth some effort to create a
(32:23):
lot of alone time together, thisis the level, and so sometimes
it's worth the wait.
Sometimes later is the answer.
Yes, that will work best for us, but sometimes it's I really
need, I want a place ofconnection with us tonight, and
so you connect on the Tuesdaynight level of connection.
(32:43):
But you also know the Fridaynight level of connection is
coming later.
It's about seeing each otherand being willing to connect
with one another.
Here to go, matt referred tomercy sex.
We define that as one of youjust showing up as a body.
Stop just showing up as a body.
(33:05):
Why is it is not doing yourwifely duty.
You don't keep your husbandfrom straying by giving him sex.
That is not connected sex.
That is not what God had inmind.
First of all, it's yourhusband's job to keep himself
pure, not yours.
But it is your job to seekregular connection with your
(33:30):
beloved.
That looks different ondifferent nights, doesn't it?
So sometimes it's not thatyou're saying no, it's that
you're saying later, or thatyou're saying this is the level
tonight, the later it could bethis.
Now, if your later keepsbecoming later, later, later,
later, then you need to leaninto what's happening there.
Matt (33:53):
And I think this is where for sexual pursuers.
This is why it's so importantfor you to be very explicit
about initiating.
Just asking your wife to havesex with you is not a very good
question, unless you're veryclear about what your
expectations are, because thatmight mean I want to have sex
with you by hanging from thechandeliers, upside down and
(34:15):
backwards for six hours untilthe dawn.
Or it might mean I just want toconnect with you in a very
quick and easy way.
But I really need some kind ofconnection tonight, and I'm not
expecting fireworks, I'm justexpecting connection.
Aren't those two differentquestions?
(34:37):
But we, as pursuers sometimesuse the same words to ask those
two questions.
No wonder our wife says no orour spouse says no because they
don't know what they're agreeingto.
So be explicit about what yourexpectations are.
Like you know, honey, I justwant to be together tonight,
(34:57):
whatever that looks like, orsometimes I'm really looking
forward to something reallyextravagant.
Is tonight the best night forthat, or should I set my
expectations for sometime else?
Be clear about your initiationand both of you will benefit All
right, these next two questionsI think go together.
Jenn (35:22):
Maybe they only go together in my brain.
Matt (35:23):
No, they definitely do.
Jenn (35:25):
Is it okay to keep a secret from your spouse?
And then should men avoidsharing personal struggles with
their wives to maintain respectand love, seeking support from a
sound brotherhood group instead.
Matt (35:40):
Good questions.
Unless it's a surprise birthdaygift, I would say it's probably
never a good idea to keep asecret from your spouse.
If you are keeping secrets fromyour spouse, you are not one,
and that, to me, is the mostfundamental definition of
(36:02):
marriage, all the way back inGenesis 2.
That God joined them togetheras one, one flesh.
Even specifically, if you'rekeeping secrets from your spouse
, you're not one, and I get it,and I used to fall into this the
(36:23):
same way.
Oh, my wife is so busy andshe's so overwhelmed and I'm
dealing with all these otherthings and I don't want to
burden her with anything else.
That is, that's garbage.
You don't want to burden herbecause you don't want to deal
with the shame of confrontingyour own weaknesses.
(36:45):
Your wife is a big girl.
She is a grown up person.
She is more than capable ofdealing with your problems and
hers.
Jenn (36:58):
How can she be your helpmate if you're not letting
her be your helpmate?
Isn't that what she's called to?
To be your sustainer beside?
How can she do that if you'redenying her that the access to
who you really are, what it isyou really struggle with?
Matt (37:23):
Now, is there value in having a trusted brotherhood
that can support you and holdyou accountable?
Absolutely.
There's a way in which a mancan hold another man accountable
that your wife is incapable ofdoing.
I get that, but if yourbrotherhood knows more about you
than your wife does, you'remarried to the wrong person.
(37:45):
You're not protecting your wifeby withholding secrets from her
.
You're shielding her out ofyour life and you are being
selfishly unmanly by notadmitting and dealing with your
(38:08):
weaknesses and having her help.
You hold you accountable.
All right, sermon over Janice.
Thanks again for joining us.
We would love to have yourfeedback on this episode, on
these questions in particular.
Did we get them right?
(38:28):
Do you have some suggestions orfeedback?
We would love to hear from you.
You can contact us by emailingus at podcast at intimate
covenant dot com, or to submitan anonymous feedback or
question.
Go to intimate covenant dot com, slash podcast and click the
button Contact the podcast foran anonymous submission form.
Jenn (38:49):
Thanks to all of you for listening, subscribing, rating
and sharing the podcast.
We're truly humbled by all yourencouragement and support.
Thanks especially to ourPatreon subscribers for coming
alongside us in a very real way.
If intimate covenant hasblessed you and your marriage,
we'd love to have you join ustoo.
Subscribe at patreoncom.
(39:10):
Slash intimate covenant.
Matt (39:13):
So next time, as always, keep striving and don't settle.
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