October 21, 2024 • 27 mins
In this episode, Matt & Jenn share another set of clips from the Q&A session at our recent Annual Marriage Retreat. We cover the following questions:
- What ways can I warm my spouse up to more public displays of affection?
- Discuss navigating, in different seasons, sexual pursuer/responder roles switching. It's not a smooth transition and can be confusing.
- What if you are the sexual AND the emotional persuer??
- I love giving my wife oral pleasure. She never reciprocates yet enjoys receiving. How do I keep from feeling resentful & help her to grow her desire for this?
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Intimate Covenant | Matt & Jenn Schmidt
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, jen want to talk about PDA.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Keep your hands to yourself buddy Great.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Today on the podcast, we're sharing part two of our
live Q&A segment from thisyear's marriage retreat,
including our answer to thefollowing question how can I
warm my spouse up to more publicdisplays of affection?
Let's do it, Welcome friends,Welcome.
(00:29):
We're Matt and Jen, and this isthe Intimate Covenant podcast
where we believe the Bible andgreat married sex both belong on
the kitchen table.
That's right.
We're talking about godlymarriage with hot sex and
emotionally fulfilling oneness,just like God intended.
We're so glad you're joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, thanks for being here.
Thanks for listening.
If you'd like more informationabout us, you can visit our
website at intimatecovenantcom,and we would always love to hear
from you.
Feel free to email us any ofyour questions.
Comments concerns complimentson Matt's beard if you've seen
him live.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Even rude remarks.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
You know, he likes his beard.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
All feedback is welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Feedback welcome at podcast at intimatecovenantcom.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
So glad you're with us.
We wanted to share in thisepisode part two.
We don't do a lot of part twos,but here's a part two Our Q&A
session at this past.
Last year's retreat sorry thisyear's retreat.
Something we did, something.
We did a retreat at some point.
It was a retreat.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It has been a month since the retreat.
If you know us, if you've atall been to the retreat, you
know that we are big fans oftaking a month off after the
retreat.
Yes, we call it ourrecuperation time.
It is our retreat.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Well, From the retreat.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
It is our retreat from the retreat and within that
month we always plan a getawayfor just us.
This year's getaway got delayedjust a little bit, but we are
leaving this week to head toSedona, Arizona.
We cannot wait.
We have heard hundreds of y'alltell us that we need to go to
Sedona for a getaway, so we areheaded out there.
(02:15):
We are going to do a lot ofhiking and a lot of relaxation
in a cabin.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yes, looking forward to that very much, absolutely.
But before we get there, we'vegot to get this episode recorded
.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
We do have to get an episode out.
Hence the reason we are sittingin front of microphones here.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
We are here we are, but we had such a great Q&A
session from this past retreat.
We wanted to share most not all, but most of the remaining
questions from that session.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, it was a great audience.
We really loved the questionsthat we got.
We loved the audio recording.
Again, shout out to our goodfriend, jacob Mock, who made us
sound exceptionally well thisyear at the retreat and it's
just fun.
It's fun for us to go back andlisten to it and remember all
the fun we had at the retreat.
(03:03):
It's always such a full weekendthat I like to listen back and
hear the laughter and just hearthe enjoyment that we all were
feeling in that moment andremember that it was just a
great weekend and we're going todo it again next year.
We are in negotiations as wespeak, so be looking for more
(03:25):
information soon about nextyear's retreat.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
And mark on your calendar February 14th.
That is when registration willopen again, and we'll plan to do
this next year.
But a lot of the retreat wascentered on the
pursuer-responder dynamic.
We've talked about that, ofcourse, in the past episodes and
even past retreats and otherevents.
It's just this framework thatwe have sort of come up with to
(03:52):
help explain and just give awell a framework really to have
conversations about how conflicthappens in relationships and
how that dynamic works.
This year's theme overall wasdesire, and so we talked a lot
about desire, whether that'sdesire for emotional connection,
(04:14):
desire for spiritual andespecially for sexual connection
, how to cultivate that, how togrow that.
And so I say all that because acouple of the questions that
are in this Q&A session areabout that pursuer-responder
dynamic.
So the questions that we aregoing to cover include
(04:39):
specifically about thepursuer-responder dynamic what
happens or how do you navigatewhen that pursuer-responder
dynamic switches, if you becomea sexual responder when you used
to be a pursuer or vice versa,how do you navigate that in a
relationship?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And also, what if both couples are both partners
and are no, I'm saying thiswrong.
What if one is both the sexualand emotional pursuer?
So how do you navigate that ifyou're filling both roles of
being a pursuer Right orresponder for that matter.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah, those are some of the things that we're gonna
answer briefly in this section,as well as, as you heard, in the
open.
How can I warm my spouse up tomore public displays of
affection?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Well, and within that , just answering the broader
question of how do I get myspouse to do X, Y, Z?
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, whatever it might be.
And then, finally, we had aquestion on what do I do or how
do I deal with some of theresentment that comes from the
fact that a wife won'treciprocate oral sex?
So also an interesting questionand hopefully you'll get
(06:02):
something from our responses and, as always, we would challenge
you to think about how you wouldanswer these questions.
Yeah, if we missed something,if you feel like there's some
part of this that we could haveanswered or should have answered
differently, we would love tohear from you Again.
You can contact us podcast atIntimateCovenantcom.
(06:23):
With that we'll get to thequestions.
Hope you enjoy our answers andwe'll see you on the flip side.
This is probably a common theme.
If you read through all thequestions, probably 30 to 50% of
them are about what can I do toget my spouse to do XYZ?
(06:44):
We could probably sum up theanswer to most of those
questions by saying you can't.
We could probably sum up theanswer to most of those
questions by saying you can't.
You can't make your spouse doanything, and I don't have a
magic wand to make my spouse dowhat I would like, and I know
all the tricks.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Oh yeah, you sure do Yep you know what I want, honey.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
So, yeah, there's your answer right there.
I guess I would.
All of this starts, though,with a conversation, right?
And if you haven't had theconversation and all you are
sensing is that your spouse isrejecting your your uh
approaches for affection inpublic, um, I don't know how to
help you with that.
You've got to have aconversation about it first.
But that conversation shouldstart with not why are you like
(07:39):
this?
The question should start bysaying it would be really
meaningful to me if we did X, y,z.
This is what it would mean tome.
This is how it would make mefeel.
This is how you can support meor build me up.
I would feel this thing aboutyou if we did more of this.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
And just because you share, that doesn't mean they're
going to immediately startdoing it, but they're definitely
more inclined if they arehearing your heart.
So anytime we get this kind ofquestion how can I make my
spouse do?
The answer is always let themhear your heart, but also be in
(08:26):
a place of contentment andgratitude.
So be in a place of contentmentand gratitude, Grateful for
what you do have.
So maybe it's first of alldefine public displays of
affection, Because again, theIsle of Walmart, there's certain
things that's not going tohappen.
Period, right?
Any of us?
Please tell me no, but so it's.
What do you mean by publicdisplays of affection?
(08:47):
What does hand-holding orkissing in public, or walking
with each other's you know,hands on each other's backs,
whatever it is, be specific.
Tell your spouse what it meansto them, but then listen to
their heart, Because what ifthat same thing that you're
(09:07):
asking for is for is a placethat a previous wound maybe
occurred for your spouse, foryour beloved?
What if that same act thatyou're asking for means
something else to them?
So be willing to listen to eachother and understand the
motivating factor.
Why is it your spouse isn't asinclined and, frankly, a lot of
(09:28):
this just goes to.
We display our affectiondifferently.
Right, the common, what's itcalled the love languages?
We do and don't like the ideaof love languages, but I get
that there's some merit.
Some people are more drawn tophysical touch.
That is a love language forthem.
(09:50):
So I would guess that thisperson that is, that physical
touch, may be low down on theradar for your spouse.
So the goal then is okay, buthow do we share that with one
another?
Speaker 1 (10:02):
And I would add to that let's just assume, just for
the sake of argument, pursuers,that you have pursued poorly in
the past.
I know that's not probably nottrue for most of you, but let's
just assume when, if you have ahistory of pursuing poorly with
pressure, your responder may notknow that when you reach out to
(10:22):
hold their hand that you're notactually asking for more.
They may realize or they maynot know that when you lean over
to give them a kiss in public,that you're not trying to make
out and feel them up right therein the aisle of Walmart.
Just step back, be empatheticand be clear about what your
(10:44):
intentions are and let yourspouse know look, okay, I did
this poorly in the past.
When I lean down for a kiss, I'mnot trying to make out with you
right here.
I just want to show youaffection and sometimes that's
the only conversation that willbe needed.
Your your responder may say ohgood, Now I don't feel like I
have to fight you off all thetime.
(11:05):
I know that we have someboundaries and your responder
can say this is what I'm okaywith in public.
This is what I'm okay with infront of the kids, this is what
I'm okay with in othercircumstances and when you guys
know where the boundaries are,then you don't have to feel this
pressure of what is he actuallyasking for in this moment, or?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
she?
What your responder is afraidof is not being enough.
So assure them that they areenough.
And again, you're inviting, notobligating.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yeah, I mean, most responders don't feel good about
rejecting.
They don't want to reject you.
So instead of getting halfwaythrough and then having to put
on the brakes, it's just easierfor them to put on the brakes
before it gets out of hand.
So if, but if you know wherethe lines are, you know where
the boundaries are, and this istrue in the bedroom as well.
(11:58):
If you know where theboundaries are, then everybody
feels safe.
And what does a responder need?
Safety, safety, discussnavigating in different seasons,
sexual pursuer and responderroles switching it's not a
smooth transition and can beconfusing.
(12:21):
I feel this we do.
Yes, so I think we made itclear, since the question is
being asked this way.
I think we made it clear.
Just because you're a sexualpursuer today doesn't
necessarily mean that you alwayswill be, and sometimes the
degree to which you are apursuer or responder will change
(12:42):
.
You might still be a pursuer,but maybe you guys end up a
little closer together thanreally far apart.
And that's true emotionally aswell.
I've seen that transition evenin my own life and it probably
says something about my age,just like the gray hair in my
beard says something about myage.
But listen, I mean men.
(13:02):
Frankly, you lose testosteroneevery day and there is not much
you can do about that.
So testosterone is the primarydriver, especially in men, for
spontaneous desire.
So you're going to lose some ofthat.
That's just inevitable.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Well, and women, if you are more by nature, a sexual
responder, you will look verydifferent as a responder when
there are little people all overyou than when you're in your
mid-40s and you're on the tailend.
And that's my story.
I mean, I will always be aresponder, but I'm a very
(13:47):
different responder now because,frankly, I have more time, I
have more energy and I'velearned how to better cultivate
desire within my own self, andso this will look differently.
Most women, your sexual desirewill rise throughout your life,
especially your forties, and Idon't think it's necessarily a
(14:10):
coincidence that that's actuallythe time when your husbands
will start dropping.
Well, there comes some, maybemeeting in the middle or even
switching.
That looks different, and ifit's patterns that you're not
used to, then that can beconfusing.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
It can definitely be confusing if you're not talking
about it.
It can definitely be confusingif you're not talking about it.
If you, as a responder, startnoticing that your pursuer is
not pursuing with the samefrequency or the same vibrancy
or the same vigor as before andyou how are?
A responder is likely to takethat as rejection, like, oh well
(14:52):
, maybe he just doesn't like meanymore.
He doesn't like me as much.
Maybe it's because I look olderor I've gained some weight or
because something else is wrongin our relationship.
If you just notice it and holdthat to yourself, then you're
just going to make up all kindsof crazy stories.
If you notice something is off,then it's up to you to bring it
up.
(15:12):
It may just be you know what.
My sex life is amazing and Idon't need it every day.
I'm happy and content to havethese few special moments
together and I'm content withthat.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Sometimes the result of better sex, more connected
sex, is longer amounts of timethat go by in between, because
you're getting the point of itin a much deeper, richer, fuller
way.
So sometimes that may mean thatyour pursuer is in a better
place of contentment.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
If they're filled up with contentment, maybe they
don't feel the scarcity ofneeding to pursue it as much and
again.
So there's lots of reasons whyit can happen.
But I would say, if you noticea change in the pattern, then
you need to bring it up Because,yes, it could be a signal that
something is actually wrong.
(16:06):
Physically, like if you havesomething wrong with you.
You may just simply not feeldesire as much, and that's
something that maybe would be analarm bell for health problems.
But it also may signal aproblem in the relationship.
And if that's the case, stopignoring it.
Don't just think, oh, thankgoodness he's not asking tonight
.
It actually might be a reasonthat you need to bring it up and
(16:32):
talk about it.
What if you are the sexual andthe emotional pursuer?
That happens and it may alwayshave been the case.
It may be something that haschanged in your relationship and
how you connect or don'tconnect.
(16:54):
I will say that that is not acommon circumstance and I'll
also say that in some cases I'mnot saying every case, but in
some cases that can suggest thatone of you has checked out.
(17:14):
So that kind of circumstancerequires a pulse check first.
Now I'm not saying that, ifthat is your situation, that
means you're in crisis anddoesn't mean you're going to be
divorced next week, but it doesmean that it at least requires a
pulse check, and maybe this issomething that goes all the way
(17:37):
back to when you first met.
Was one of you just alwayspursuing the other?
Was there ever a time when youpursued the other or not?
What was it that brought youtogether?
Generally speaking, both of youwill have been involved in some
way in making those connections, but sometimes one of you is
(18:01):
just more emotionally fulfilled,more emotionally connected, and
one of you is more sexuallyconnected at the same time, and
again, what that means, though,is if you're the pursuer,
emotionally and sexually, youbetter be a great pursuer, and
(18:22):
you've got to really be mindfulabout how you are pursuing, and
the same principles apply You'vegot to do it in a way that
creates safety, and in a waythat allows for you to be open
to, or allows them to be open to, response.
Again, on the flip side, if youare the responder in all in
(18:44):
these major places in yourrelationship, you better be a
good responder, because if youare not responding to the
emotional and sexual connectionsand the bids that your spouse
is making and you're missinglots of bids because you're not
paying attention and you're notmotivated by emotional or sexual
(19:04):
connection.
You have work to do.
You have to be on your game,constantly listening for bids.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Well and again, both pursuers and responders have to
recognize that's an active role.
Neither of you gets to bepassive.
And so if you are in a place inyour marriage right now where
you are the responder,emotionally and sexually, I
would challenge you to considerwhy is that?
(19:34):
And what am I doing to show myspouse, show my pursuer, that I
acknowledge their pursuit, thatI see them, because they're
going to need more reassurancebecause they are in that role of
(19:55):
constant pursuit.
And so you, as a responder,again, you better be a really
good responder.
You better be working to makesure that that pursuer knows
that they are seen and valued,because they're risking
rejection every single moment,emotionally and sexually.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
This question is I love giving my wife oral
pleasure.
She never reciprocates, yetenjoys receiving.
How do I keep from feelingresentful and help her to grow
her circle for this?
I think the key word in thisquestion, or the key idea in
(20:39):
this question, is how do I keepfrom feeling resentful?
Because it could be whatever itis.
It could be just kissing or itcould be whatever that you feel
like you, as a pursuer, arepouring into this part of your
relationship and yet you're notgetting back what you think you
ought to get back and that couldbe even emotionally right.
(21:03):
You could feel like you arepouring into the emotional side
of your relationship and yetyour spouse just they enjoy what
they get from it, your spouseenjoys it, but they're not
putting in the same kind ofeffort.
They're not even willing to trysomething that means so much to
you and I don't.
(21:24):
Unfortunately, I'm sorry Idon't have an easy solution for
this.
There is no easy solution forthis.
There are just, in a lot ofcases, some places in your
relationship where you are justsimply going to be giving more
than your spouse, where you arejust simply going to be giving
more than your spouse.
But I also think that it'simportant to acknowledge all of
(21:44):
the places where they areserving you.
That's always a good place tostart is gratitude.
Have you heard that before?
Gratitude is always the placeto start.
Gratitude is the antidote toresentment, but it doesn't make
(22:07):
the rejection hurt less in a lotof cases.
But again, does every questionthat we answer eventually come
down to?
You have to have a conversationabout this.
Why do you think we've beenmaking you talk all week, all
weekend?
It comes down to a conversation.
You need to know where is yourspouse's heart.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
What does it mean to her?
What is it that isn'tcomfortable for her when you say
that she never reciprocates?
Why?
Speaker 1 (22:42):
And if you ask her why, what do you?
Speaker 2 (22:43):
think her answer is going to be, I don't know or no.
We are not having thisconversation.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
But guess what?
That's not a conversation.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
And so the more you can share your heart about what
it means to you, the more shemight feel safe to share her
heart about what it may or maynot mean to her.
Again, if you have in any wayshape or form pressured at some
point, then guess what she hasattached to that act A lot of
(23:18):
sense of resentment herself.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, and maybe it's because she doesn't feel like
she's going to do it well, orshe's not going to do it right,
or there is some shame attachedto it, like this is maybe
associated with something quote,dirty or something that only
those kinds of people would do.
I don't know where the barrieris and I have no way to predict
(23:41):
what that might be in thisparticular circumstance, but
that's what you both are goingto have to explore because,
again, not every couple isfighting about oral sex.
So why is it that this is thebarrier and what are the
barriers to whatever this mightbe?
And if that's your barrier, youought not to want to have a
(24:06):
barrier between you.
Now, eventually, thisconversation still might end up
with no, I just can't do it.
That's okay.
That's an okay response,because there's sometimes are
just some things that, becauseof the baggage that I'm carrying
, I'm not going to be able to dothat.
That is a sore spot that Icannot get past.
(24:33):
But it's also up to me, as theone who has the wound, to make
sure that my spouse knows wherethe wound is, what it's there,
how did it get there, how can weavoid the wound and is there a
way to provide the same degreeof eroticism or pleasure or
(24:54):
connection in some other way?
Is there a detour around thiswound that still creates the
same benefit to the relationship?
I'm not going to be able totell you what that is.
That is a.
(25:15):
That is not a conversation.
That's a lot of conversations.
That's a lot of vulnerabilityon both your parts.
Why is this so desirable?
Why is this the thing that I am, as a pursuer, am wanting?
What does it mean to me andwhat does it mean to my
responder?
Who is opposed and why?
And can we dig through thosethings to find out what are the
(25:38):
motivating factors in my pursuitand in my rejection?
And is there a detour?
I promise you, if you go yourwhole life without ever
receiving oral sex, you couldstill have a great sex life.
So there are other ways to findthe same benefits in your
(26:00):
relationship, but you know, oralsex might be great, so think
about that.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
All right.
Hopefully you gained someinsight there in listening to
the answers that we gave andagain, if you have a different
take, if you would answer thosequestions differently, we would
love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
We have no illusions that you agree with all of our
responses, so we would love tohear some of that feedback.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
We love the conversation.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
You can contact us by emailing podcast at
intimatecovenantcom or to submitanonymous feedback and
questions.
Go to intimatecovenantcom slashpodcast and click on the button
Contact the podcast.
Who would have guessed?
That's how you can submit ananonymous submission form.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
That's right.
Thanks to all of you forlistening, subscribing, rating
and sharing the podcast.
We say it every time, but wereally are truly humbled by all
your encouragement and all ofyour support, Thanks especially
to our Patreon subscribers.
They come alongside us in avery real way every single month
(27:15):
and if Intimate Covenant hasblessed you and blessed your
marriage, we'd like to have youjoin us too.
Subscribe at patreoncom.
Slash intimate covenant.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
We also should mention.
In our show notes you'll findlinks to a number of our
affiliates who have joined us.
Go to our show notes, click onthose affiliate links and you
can shop, and you will get notonly savings for yourself, but
your purchases from ouraffiliates will also benefit
Intimate Covenant, and don'tworry, we won't know what you
(27:45):
purchased.
Thanks, as always, and untilnext time, keep striving and
don't settle.
Hey, jen want to talk about PDA.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Keep your hands to yourself buddy Great.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Today on the podcast, we're sharing part two of our
live Q&A segment from thisyear's marriage retreat,
including our answer to thefollowing question how can I
warm my spouse up to more publicdisplays of affection?
Let's do it, Welcome friends,Welcome.
(00:29):
We're Matt and Jen, and this isthe Intimate Covenant podcast
where we believe the Bible andgreat married sex both belong on
the kitchen table.
That's right.
We're talking about godlymarriage with hot sex and
emotionally fulfilling oneness,just like God intended.
We're so glad you're joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, thanks for being here.
Thanks for listening.
If you'd like more informationabout us, you can visit our
website at intimatecovenantcom,and we would always love to hear
from you.
Feel free to email us any ofyour questions.
Comments concerns complimentson Matt's beard if you've seen
him live.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Even rude remarks.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
You know, he likes his beard.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
All feedback is welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Feedback welcome at podcast at intimatecovenantcom.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
So glad you're with us.
We wanted to share in thisepisode part two.
We don't do a lot of part twos,but here's a part two Our Q&A
session at this past.
Last year's retreat sorry thisyear's retreat.
Something we did, something.
We did a retreat at some point.
It was a retreat.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It has been a month since the retreat.
If you know us, if you've atall been to the retreat, you
know that we are big fans oftaking a month off after the
retreat.
Yes, we call it ourrecuperation time.
It is our retreat.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Well, From the retreat.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
It is our retreat from the retreat and within that
month we always plan a getawayfor just us.
This year's getaway got delayedjust a little bit, but we are
leaving this week to head toSedona, Arizona.
We cannot wait.
We have heard hundreds of y'alltell us that we need to go to
Sedona for a getaway, so we areheaded out there.
(02:15):
We are going to do a lot ofhiking and a lot of relaxation
in a cabin.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yes, looking forward to that very much, absolutely.
But before we get there, we'vegot to get this episode recorded
.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
We do have to get an episode out.
Hence the reason we are sittingin front of microphones here.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
We are here we are, but we had such a great Q&A
session from this past retreat.
We wanted to share most not all, but most of the remaining
questions from that session.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, it was a great audience.
We really loved the questionsthat we got.
We loved the audio recording.
Again, shout out to our goodfriend, jacob Mock, who made us
sound exceptionally well thisyear at the retreat and it's
just fun.
It's fun for us to go back andlisten to it and remember all
the fun we had at the retreat.
(03:03):
It's always such a full weekendthat I like to listen back and
hear the laughter and just hearthe enjoyment that we all were
feeling in that moment andremember that it was just a
great weekend and we're going todo it again next year.
We are in negotiations as wespeak, so be looking for more
(03:25):
information soon about nextyear's retreat.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
And mark on your calendar February 14th.
That is when registration willopen again, and we'll plan to do
this next year.
But a lot of the retreat wascentered on the
pursuer-responder dynamic.
We've talked about that, ofcourse, in the past episodes and
even past retreats and otherevents.
It's just this framework thatwe have sort of come up with to
(03:52):
help explain and just give awell a framework really to have
conversations about how conflicthappens in relationships and
how that dynamic works.
This year's theme overall wasdesire, and so we talked a lot
about desire, whether that'sdesire for emotional connection,
(04:14):
desire for spiritual andespecially for sexual connection
, how to cultivate that, how togrow that.
And so I say all that because acouple of the questions that
are in this Q&A session areabout that pursuer-responder
dynamic.
So the questions that we aregoing to cover include
(04:39):
specifically about thepursuer-responder dynamic what
happens or how do you navigatewhen that pursuer-responder
dynamic switches, if you becomea sexual responder when you used
to be a pursuer or vice versa,how do you navigate that in a
relationship?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And also, what if both couples are both partners
and are no, I'm saying thiswrong.
What if one is both the sexualand emotional pursuer?
So how do you navigate that ifyou're filling both roles of
being a pursuer Right orresponder for that matter.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah, those are some of the things that we're gonna
answer briefly in this section,as well as, as you heard, in the
open.
How can I warm my spouse up tomore public displays of
affection?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Well, and within that , just answering the broader
question of how do I get myspouse to do X, Y, Z?
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, whatever it might be.
And then, finally, we had aquestion on what do I do or how
do I deal with some of theresentment that comes from the
fact that a wife won'treciprocate oral sex?
So also an interesting questionand hopefully you'll get
(06:02):
something from our responses and, as always, we would challenge
you to think about how you wouldanswer these questions.
Yeah, if we missed something,if you feel like there's some
part of this that we could haveanswered or should have answered
differently, we would love tohear from you Again.
You can contact us podcast atIntimateCovenantcom.
(06:23):
With that we'll get to thequestions.
Hope you enjoy our answers andwe'll see you on the flip side.
This is probably a common theme.
If you read through all thequestions, probably 30 to 50% of
them are about what can I do toget my spouse to do XYZ?
(06:44):
We could probably sum up theanswer to most of those
questions by saying you can't.
We could probably sum up theanswer to most of those
questions by saying you can't.
You can't make your spouse doanything, and I don't have a
magic wand to make my spouse dowhat I would like, and I know
all the tricks.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Oh yeah, you sure do Yep you know what I want, honey.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
So, yeah, there's your answer right there.
I guess I would.
All of this starts, though,with a conversation, right?
And if you haven't had theconversation and all you are
sensing is that your spouse isrejecting your your uh
approaches for affection inpublic, um, I don't know how to
help you with that.
You've got to have aconversation about it first.
But that conversation shouldstart with not why are you like
(07:39):
this?
The question should start bysaying it would be really
meaningful to me if we did X, y,z.
This is what it would mean tome.
This is how it would make mefeel.
This is how you can support meor build me up.
I would feel this thing aboutyou if we did more of this.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
And just because you share, that doesn't mean they're
going to immediately startdoing it, but they're definitely
more inclined if they arehearing your heart.
So anytime we get this kind ofquestion how can I make my
spouse do?
The answer is always let themhear your heart, but also be in
(08:26):
a place of contentment andgratitude.
So be in a place of contentmentand gratitude, Grateful for
what you do have.
So maybe it's first of alldefine public displays of
affection, Because again, theIsle of Walmart, there's certain
things that's not going tohappen.
Period, right?
Any of us?
Please tell me no, but so it's.
What do you mean by publicdisplays of affection?
(08:47):
What does hand-holding orkissing in public, or walking
with each other's you know,hands on each other's backs,
whatever it is, be specific.
Tell your spouse what it meansto them, but then listen to
their heart, Because what ifthat same thing that you're
(09:07):
asking for is for is a placethat a previous wound maybe
occurred for your spouse, foryour beloved?
What if that same act thatyou're asking for means
something else to them?
So be willing to listen to eachother and understand the
motivating factor.
Why is it your spouse isn't asinclined and, frankly, a lot of
(09:28):
this just goes to.
We display our affectiondifferently.
Right, the common, what's itcalled the love languages?
We do and don't like the ideaof love languages, but I get
that there's some merit.
Some people are more drawn tophysical touch.
That is a love language forthem.
(09:50):
So I would guess that thisperson that is, that physical
touch, may be low down on theradar for your spouse.
So the goal then is okay, buthow do we share that with one
another?
Speaker 1 (10:02):
And I would add to that let's just assume, just for
the sake of argument, pursuers,that you have pursued poorly in
the past.
I know that's not probably nottrue for most of you, but let's
just assume when, if you have ahistory of pursuing poorly with
pressure, your responder may notknow that when you reach out to
(10:22):
hold their hand that you're notactually asking for more.
They may realize or they maynot know that when you lean over
to give them a kiss in public,that you're not trying to make
out and feel them up right therein the aisle of Walmart.
Just step back, be empatheticand be clear about what your
(10:44):
intentions are and let yourspouse know look, okay, I did
this poorly in the past.
When I lean down for a kiss, I'mnot trying to make out with you
right here.
I just want to show youaffection and sometimes that's
the only conversation that willbe needed.
Your your responder may say ohgood, Now I don't feel like I
have to fight you off all thetime.
(11:05):
I know that we have someboundaries and your responder
can say this is what I'm okaywith in public.
This is what I'm okay with infront of the kids, this is what
I'm okay with in othercircumstances and when you guys
know where the boundaries are,then you don't have to feel this
pressure of what is he actuallyasking for in this moment, or?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
she?
What your responder is afraidof is not being enough.
So assure them that they areenough.
And again, you're inviting, notobligating.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yeah, I mean, most responders don't feel good about
rejecting.
They don't want to reject you.
So instead of getting halfwaythrough and then having to put
on the brakes, it's just easierfor them to put on the brakes
before it gets out of hand.
So if, but if you know wherethe lines are, you know where
the boundaries are, and this istrue in the bedroom as well.
(11:58):
If you know where theboundaries are, then everybody
feels safe.
And what does a responder need?
Safety, safety, discussnavigating in different seasons,
sexual pursuer and responderroles switching it's not a
smooth transition and can beconfusing.
(12:21):
I feel this we do.
Yes, so I think we made itclear, since the question is
being asked this way.
I think we made it clear.
Just because you're a sexualpursuer today doesn't
necessarily mean that you alwayswill be, and sometimes the
degree to which you are apursuer or responder will change
(12:42):
.
You might still be a pursuer,but maybe you guys end up a
little closer together thanreally far apart.
And that's true emotionally aswell.
I've seen that transition evenin my own life and it probably
says something about my age,just like the gray hair in my
beard says something about myage.
But listen, I mean men.
(13:02):
Frankly, you lose testosteroneevery day and there is not much
you can do about that.
So testosterone is the primarydriver, especially in men, for
spontaneous desire.
So you're going to lose some ofthat.
That's just inevitable.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Well, and women, if you are more by nature, a sexual
responder, you will look verydifferent as a responder when
there are little people all overyou than when you're in your
mid-40s and you're on the tailend.
And that's my story.
I mean, I will always be aresponder, but I'm a very
(13:47):
different responder now because,frankly, I have more time, I
have more energy and I'velearned how to better cultivate
desire within my own self, andso this will look differently.
Most women, your sexual desirewill rise throughout your life,
especially your forties, and Idon't think it's necessarily a
(14:10):
coincidence that that's actuallythe time when your husbands
will start dropping.
Well, there comes some, maybemeeting in the middle or even
switching.
That looks different, and ifit's patterns that you're not
used to, then that can beconfusing.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
It can definitely be confusing if you're not talking
about it.
It can definitely be confusingif you're not talking about it.
If you, as a responder, startnoticing that your pursuer is
not pursuing with the samefrequency or the same vibrancy
or the same vigor as before andyou how are?
A responder is likely to takethat as rejection, like, oh well
(14:52):
, maybe he just doesn't like meanymore.
He doesn't like me as much.
Maybe it's because I look olderor I've gained some weight or
because something else is wrongin our relationship.
If you just notice it and holdthat to yourself, then you're
just going to make up all kindsof crazy stories.
If you notice something is off,then it's up to you to bring it
up.
(15:12):
It may just be you know what.
My sex life is amazing and Idon't need it every day.
I'm happy and content to havethese few special moments
together and I'm content withthat.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Sometimes the result of better sex, more connected
sex, is longer amounts of timethat go by in between, because
you're getting the point of itin a much deeper, richer, fuller
way.
So sometimes that may mean thatyour pursuer is in a better
place of contentment.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
If they're filled up with contentment, maybe they
don't feel the scarcity ofneeding to pursue it as much and
again.
So there's lots of reasons whyit can happen.
But I would say, if you noticea change in the pattern, then
you need to bring it up Because,yes, it could be a signal that
something is actually wrong.
(16:06):
Physically, like if you havesomething wrong with you.
You may just simply not feeldesire as much, and that's
something that maybe would be analarm bell for health problems.
But it also may signal aproblem in the relationship.
And if that's the case, stopignoring it.
Don't just think, oh, thankgoodness he's not asking tonight
.
It actually might be a reasonthat you need to bring it up and
(16:32):
talk about it.
What if you are the sexual andthe emotional pursuer?
That happens and it may alwayshave been the case.
It may be something that haschanged in your relationship and
how you connect or don'tconnect.
(16:54):
I will say that that is not acommon circumstance and I'll
also say that in some cases I'mnot saying every case, but in
some cases that can suggest thatone of you has checked out.
(17:14):
So that kind of circumstancerequires a pulse check first.
Now I'm not saying that, ifthat is your situation, that
means you're in crisis anddoesn't mean you're going to be
divorced next week, but it doesmean that it at least requires a
pulse check, and maybe this issomething that goes all the way
(17:37):
back to when you first met.
Was one of you just alwayspursuing the other?
Was there ever a time when youpursued the other or not?
What was it that brought youtogether?
Generally speaking, both of youwill have been involved in some
way in making those connections, but sometimes one of you is
(18:01):
just more emotionally fulfilled,more emotionally connected, and
one of you is more sexuallyconnected at the same time, and
again, what that means, though,is if you're the pursuer,
emotionally and sexually, youbetter be a great pursuer, and
(18:22):
you've got to really be mindfulabout how you are pursuing, and
the same principles apply You'vegot to do it in a way that
creates safety, and in a waythat allows for you to be open
to, or allows them to be open to, response.
Again, on the flip side, if youare the responder in all in
(18:44):
these major places in yourrelationship, you better be a
good responder, because if youare not responding to the
emotional and sexual connectionsand the bids that your spouse
is making and you're missinglots of bids because you're not
paying attention and you're notmotivated by emotional or sexual
(19:04):
connection.
You have work to do.
You have to be on your game,constantly listening for bids.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Well and again, both pursuers and responders have to
recognize that's an active role.
Neither of you gets to bepassive.
And so if you are in a place inyour marriage right now where
you are the responder,emotionally and sexually, I
would challenge you to considerwhy is that?
(19:34):
And what am I doing to show myspouse, show my pursuer, that I
acknowledge their pursuit, thatI see them, because they're
going to need more reassurancebecause they are in that role of
(19:55):
constant pursuit.
And so you, as a responder,again, you better be a really
good responder.
You better be working to makesure that that pursuer knows
that they are seen and valued,because they're risking
rejection every single moment,emotionally and sexually.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
This question is I love giving my wife oral
pleasure.
She never reciprocates, yetenjoys receiving.
How do I keep from feelingresentful and help her to grow
her circle for this?
I think the key word in thisquestion, or the key idea in
(20:39):
this question, is how do I keepfrom feeling resentful?
Because it could be whatever itis.
It could be just kissing or itcould be whatever that you feel
like you, as a pursuer, arepouring into this part of your
relationship and yet you're notgetting back what you think you
ought to get back and that couldbe even emotionally right.
(21:03):
You could feel like you arepouring into the emotional side
of your relationship and yetyour spouse just they enjoy what
they get from it, your spouseenjoys it, but they're not
putting in the same kind ofeffort.
They're not even willing to trysomething that means so much to
you and I don't.
(21:24):
Unfortunately, I'm sorry Idon't have an easy solution for
this.
There is no easy solution forthis.
There are just, in a lot ofcases, some places in your
relationship where you are justsimply going to be giving more
than your spouse, where you arejust simply going to be giving
more than your spouse.
But I also think that it'simportant to acknowledge all of
(21:44):
the places where they areserving you.
That's always a good place tostart is gratitude.
Have you heard that before?
Gratitude is always the placeto start.
Gratitude is the antidote toresentment, but it doesn't make
(22:07):
the rejection hurt less in a lotof cases.
But again, does every questionthat we answer eventually come
down to?
You have to have a conversationabout this.
Why do you think we've beenmaking you talk all week, all
weekend?
It comes down to a conversation.
You need to know where is yourspouse's heart.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
What does it mean to her?
What is it that isn'tcomfortable for her when you say
that she never reciprocates?
Why?
Speaker 1 (22:42):
And if you ask her why, what do you?
Speaker 2 (22:43):
think her answer is going to be, I don't know or no.
We are not having thisconversation.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
But guess what?
That's not a conversation.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
And so the more you can share your heart about what
it means to you, the more shemight feel safe to share her
heart about what it may or maynot mean to her.
Again, if you have in any wayshape or form pressured at some
point, then guess what she hasattached to that act A lot of
(23:18):
sense of resentment herself.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, and maybe it's because she doesn't feel like
she's going to do it well, orshe's not going to do it right,
or there is some shame attachedto it, like this is maybe
associated with something quote,dirty or something that only
those kinds of people would do.
I don't know where the barrieris and I have no way to predict
(23:41):
what that might be in thisparticular circumstance, but
that's what you both are goingto have to explore because,
again, not every couple isfighting about oral sex.
So why is it that this is thebarrier and what are the
barriers to whatever this mightbe?
And if that's your barrier, youought not to want to have a
(24:06):
barrier between you.
Now, eventually, thisconversation still might end up
with no, I just can't do it.
That's okay.
That's an okay response,because there's sometimes are
just some things that, becauseof the baggage that I'm carrying
, I'm not going to be able to dothat.
That is a sore spot that Icannot get past.
(24:33):
But it's also up to me, as theone who has the wound, to make
sure that my spouse knows wherethe wound is, what it's there,
how did it get there, how can weavoid the wound and is there a
way to provide the same degreeof eroticism or pleasure or
(24:54):
connection in some other way?
Is there a detour around thiswound that still creates the
same benefit to the relationship?
I'm not going to be able totell you what that is.
That is a.
(25:15):
That is not a conversation.
That's a lot of conversations.
That's a lot of vulnerabilityon both your parts.
Why is this so desirable?
Why is this the thing that I am, as a pursuer, am wanting?
What does it mean to me andwhat does it mean to my
responder?
Who is opposed and why?
And can we dig through thosethings to find out what are the
(25:38):
motivating factors in my pursuitand in my rejection?
And is there a detour?
I promise you, if you go yourwhole life without ever
receiving oral sex, you couldstill have a great sex life.
So there are other ways to findthe same benefits in your
(26:00):
relationship, but you know, oralsex might be great, so think
about that.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
All right.
Hopefully you gained someinsight there in listening to
the answers that we gave andagain, if you have a different
take, if you would answer thosequestions differently, we would
love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
We have no illusions that you agree with all of our
responses, so we would love tohear some of that feedback.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
We love the conversation.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
You can contact us by emailing podcast at
intimatecovenantcom or to submitanonymous feedback and
questions.
Go to intimatecovenantcom slashpodcast and click on the button
Contact the podcast.
Who would have guessed?
That's how you can submit ananonymous submission form.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
That's right.
Thanks to all of you forlistening, subscribing, rating
and sharing the podcast.
We say it every time, but wereally are truly humbled by all
your encouragement and all ofyour support, Thanks especially
to our Patreon subscribers.
They come alongside us in avery real way every single month
(27:15):
and if Intimate Covenant hasblessed you and blessed your
marriage, we'd like to have youjoin us too.
Subscribe at patreoncom.
Slash intimate covenant.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
We also should mention.
In our show notes you'll findlinks to a number of our
affiliates who have joined us.
Go to our show notes, click onthose affiliate links and you
can shop, and you will get notonly savings for yourself, but
your purchases from ouraffiliates will also benefit
Intimate Covenant, and don'tworry, we won't know what you
(27:45):
purchased.
Thanks, as always, and untilnext time, keep striving and
don't settle.
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