May 6, 2024 • 50 mins
In this episode, Matt and Jenn discuss the resurging popularity of sleeping in separate bedrooms. We'll consider the reasons why a couple might choose this option and whether it might be wise for your marriage. In addition, we'll discuss some of the consequences of spouses who have separate bedtimes.
- Every step we take away from our spouses, especially physically, has inevitable negative long-term consequences for the relationship. The decision to sleep apart should be weighed carefully and be constantly reevaluated.
- As much as is within your power, eliminate the barriers to sleeping together so that you can get be in bed with each other as often as possible.
- Likewise, separate bedtimes also promote emotional and physical drift away from each other, allowing opportunity for selfishness and betrayal.
As promised, here are the sources for the data that we referenced in this episode:
- Elsey, Taylor et al. “The role of couple sleep concordance in sleep quality: Attachment as a moderator of associations.” Journal of sleep research vol. 28,5 (2019): e12825.
- Drews HJ, Drews A. Couple Relationships Are Associated With Increased REM Sleep-A Proof-of-Concept Analysis of a Large Dataset Using Ambulatory Polysomnography. Front Psychiatry. 2021 May 10;12:641102.
- Richter, K., Adam, S., Geiss, L., Peter, L., & Niklewski, G. (2016). Two in a bed: The influence of couple sleeping and chronotypes on relationship and sleep. An overview. Chronobiology International, 33(10), 1464–1472.
- Troxel WM; Buysse DJ; Matthews KA; Kravitz HM; Bromberger JT; Sowers M; Hall MH. Marital/cohabitation status and history in relation to sleep in midlife women. SLEEP 2010;33(7):973-981.
- Chiao, Chi et al. “Loneliness in older parents: marital transitions, family and social connections, and separate bedrooms for sleep.” BMC geriatrics vol. 21,1 590. 22 Oct. 2021
- Larson JH, Crane DR, Smith CW. (1991). Morning and night couples: The effect of wake and sleep patterns on marital adjustment. J Marital Fam Ther. 17:53–65.
- Ulfberg J, Carter N, Talback M, Edling C. (2000). Adverse health effects among women living with heavy snorers. Health Care Women Int. 21:81–90.
- Gordon, A. M., & Chen, S. (2014). The Role of Sleep in Interpersonal Conflict: Do Sleepless Nights Mean Worse Fights? Social Psychological and Personality Science, 5(2), 168-175.
- Cartwright, R D, and S Knight. “Silent partners: the wives of sleep apneic patients.” Sleep vol. 10,3 (1987): 244-8.
- Cascais Costa C, Afreixo V, Cravo J. Impact of Obstructive Sleep Apnea Treatment on Marital Relationships: Sleeping Together Again? Cureus. 2023 Oct 5;15(10):e46513.
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Intimate Cove
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, Jen want to talk about sleeping in separate beds
.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I thought you would never ask.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Great.
In this episode we're talkingabout separate beds and separate
bedtimes.
Is a good night's sleep moreimportant than a single master
suite?
Let's do it.
Welcome friends.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
We are Matt and Jen, and this is the Intimate
Covenant Podcast where webelieve the Bible and great
married sex, both belong on thekitchen table.
That's right.
We're talking about godlymarriage and hot sex and
emotionally fulfilling onenessin your marriage.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Hey, matt, did you know that, according to the
National Association of HomeBuilders, the number of home
buyers looking for two master orprimary and secondary bedroom
suites rose from 25% to 40%between 2003 and 2018.
?
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Interesting fact.
I did not know that Actually, Idid know that because I did the
research for this but many ofus probably don't recognize or
realize how prevalent sleepingin separate bedrooms has become,
but we'll talk more about thatas we get into the episode.
Before we get there, though, wewant to make you aware of two
(01:19):
important announcements.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
That's right, First one being we are doing a Kingdom
Singles event in our ownbackyard.
We've done these across thenation and we've traveled for
various marriage days andmarriage weekends, but never one
here in the Houston area.
So we heard you loud and clear,Houston peeps, and we are
having a Kingdom Singles eventin the Woodlands.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Texas, just north of Houston.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
That'll be on Saturday, july 20th.
Our target audience isunmarried young adults like
20-ish, 30-ish kind of.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
We won't be checking your IDs we will not.
We are looking to target adults, not necessarily the high
school age.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
No, we've done stuff for high schoolers, but we're
moving up to the 20s and 30s andour topics will be finding
spiritual purpose whileunmarried.
We're also going to spend sometime talking about struggling
with sexual desire as a singleindividual and how to go about
dating with righteous intention.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Some important topics , I think, for those who are
unmarried, and obviously ourprimary purpose and goal with
Intimate Covenant has, I guess,traditionally been working with
married couples, but we alsorecognize that singles deal with
a lot of these issues and thereis certainly some overlap in
what we've done with marriedcouples and singles.
(02:43):
But we also want to challengethese young people and encourage
them in their walk.
Being unmarried.
They certainly have some uniquechallenges to their situations,
but it won't be all you knowboring lecture with Matt and Jen
.
It's also going to be someopportunity for some
socialization socializing, Ishould say, and fun yeah.
(03:07):
So we're very much lookingforward to that event and for
engaging with those young folks.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
So not many singles are listening to our podcast,
which means we need you, ourmarried friends, to help spread
the word.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah, save the date.
That is again July 20th.
If you can save the date, thenwe'll get some information out
and broadcast that through thevarious channels.
But save that date, july 20th.
Of course, we also want tomention our annual retreat.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
That's right.
September 19th through the 21stthis year, that's a Thursday
through Saturday.
Through the 21st this year,that's a Thursday through
Saturday.
Our theme this year, it'sdesire reigniting emotional and
sexual connection in yourmarriage.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, so we're very much looking forward to that.
Lots of preparation underwayfor that.
We do have a really excitingannouncement with respect to the
retreat.
We now have a game plan and ahost, an entertainer, as it were
, for our Thursday night kickoff.
(04:12):
That's right we will be havinga game show night specifically
curated for an Intimate Covenantretreat and audience.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yes, it's going to be a game show with an intimate
covenant twist.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Yes, this has been created and will be hosted by
our good friend, josh Metcalf,who is here locally in Houston,
worships with us, and we've beengood friends for quite some
time.
If you don't know Josh, youshould simply know he is
absolutely hilarious andextremely creative, particularly
(04:50):
when it comes to making games.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yes.
So he has created a wholewonderful evening full of games,
and there's going to be lots offun.
There's going to be lots ofcomedy.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And there will even be prizes, prizes, yes.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
And the good news is, no single person will have to
be embarrassed.
No, no, don't worry about beingcalled to the stage if you
don't want to be called to thestage, but plenty of opportunity
for those who want to reallycompete, and everyone will have
a chance to win some fantasticprizes.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
It's going to be fun.
We're really looking forward tothat.
But the whole retreat is goingto have plenty of time for
relaxation, uninterruptedconversations with you and your
beloved, and there are only ahandful of spots remaining.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Literally not very many spots left, so if you would
like to come, we still haveroom for you.
We want you to be there.
You can reserve your spot forjust a $200 deposit, with the
balance not due until the middleof August, so you got plenty of
time to reserve your spot.
Save up for the rest, but besure and sign up and join us.
(06:05):
We really want to have youthere.
The topic this year of desireis going to be, I think, a
really helpful one to help usreignite our marriage and the
passion in our marriages.
So that is our plan.
It's going to be great.
You can find it atIntimateCovenantcom.
Slash retreat.
That'll get you to theregistration page.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
All right.
So getting into today's topic,this episode comes from no less
than three different couples atrecent events, all posed to us a
very similar question.
We've also received a fewemails regarding this question
and so within the last couple ofmonths, it's really been
(06:46):
interesting.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
All of these questions have come up uh same
time, so that was a signal to usthat we need to do an episode
on this topic that's right, andall of their questions had to do
about sleeping in separate bedsand or having separate bedtimes
.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
So some of the questions, for example, were
what is your opinion on sleepingin separate rooms?
This is due to different sleepschedules and snoring.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Another person asked what if the husband works nights
and the wife sleeps in adifferent place than the husband
?
We do make time for weeklyalone time.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
And then another question, uh, and we hear this
one a lot sure our young childscreams for hours if one of us
does not sleep in the same bedwith her.
Because of this, we have littletime with each other in the
evenings and we are rarelyhaving sex.
How can we get closer as acouple?
Speaker 1 (07:40):
all great questions, all, uh, challenging questions.
I think all of us that havebeen married, particularly with
kids, have struggled with thisto some degree or another,
whether it's newborns that don,one of you is a night owl and
the other is a early bird, andso many couples struggle with
(08:12):
having different sort ofcircadian rhythms, if it were,
as it were.
So, historically, though, thisis also an interesting topic, as
I kind of dug into this alittle bit in doing a little bit
of research for this episode.
It's just an interesting topic,and I wanted to at least share
some of the historical andcultural significance to this
(08:35):
topic, I think one it may beinformative for you, but also I
just thought it was interestingand relevant, I think, to this
topic.
Interesting, um and, um, youknow, relevant, I think, to this
topic.
Um, I, I think it's safe to saythat in general, across
cultures, throughout history,that co-sleeping with your
spouse has been the norm, right,generally speaking, broadly
(08:58):
speaking, right.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
We kind of associate that with something that married
people do sure right and how.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
It's also safe to say that in Western culture between
around the 1850s to the 1950s,twin beds were viewed as the
preferred sleeping arrangementfor upper-class married couples,
that is, separate beds and evenseparate bedrooms.
For example, dr Edwin Bowers,whomever he might be, wrote a
(09:27):
book called Sleeping for Healthin 1919.
Quoting from that book, he saysseparate beds for every sleeper
are as necessary as areseparate dishes for every eater.
They promote comfort,cleanliness and the natural
delicacy that exists among humanbeings.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
The natural delicacy.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
It's very very properly put.
I can't necessarily disagreethat it is in some ways more
comfortable, maybe more clean,but that was his opinion.
His educated pontificationsabout how we should sleep the
(10:10):
shame-filled and puritanicalsexual taboos of the Victorian
age around that time probably,however, were fueling, at least
to some degree, this unfoundedmedical advice of his time.
In fact, did you know thatQueen Elizabeth and Prince
Philip slept in separatebedrooms for their entire
(10:34):
75-year marriage?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I did not know that.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
That is remarkable.
Hopefully they didn't spend allof their time in separate
bedrooms, but at the very leastthey had separate bedrooms and
they slept at least in separatebedrooms.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Did you learn that from the Crown?
Speaker 1 (10:52):
No, I did not.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
You don't think that that's a historically accurate
telling?
I have no idea.
We'll see.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Don't have a lot of interest in the British monarchy
, but I do think it'sinteresting, though, that
vestiges of this kind of, we'llsay, sexually repressed thinking
do show up even in popularearly American television shows
clips of I Love Lucy or the DickVan Dyke show, where the
(11:25):
couples their married couplesare shown, at least on the
television screen, as sleepingin separate beds.
Even though they're in the samebedroom.
They had separate beds,separated by a nightstand and a
cute lamp, and they get in bed,say goodnight to each other
across the space between theseseparate beds.
(11:47):
You might be interested to knowthat one of the first couples
to be shown in bed together on atelevision screen are Fred and
Wilma Flintstone.
Maybe they could get away withit because they were cartoons.
I mean, they were from thefuture.
No, they definitely were notfrom the future, no, but maybe
(12:13):
because they were cartoons theycould get away with it.
Sure, but you might wonder whyit is, why something so
obviously out of place on TV?
Well, in the 1950s and 60sthere was this rule called the
Hays Code, and it's a set ofrules that dictated what could
be shown on television and whatcould not be shown on television
(12:35):
, and that code required thatmarried couples sleep in
separate beds when depicted ontelevision.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
No idea how or why that came to be, other than I
can just say sexual repressionor at least an unwillingness to
confront the reality of sex inmarriage.
There was this one foot rulethat was enforced for these
television couples, which meantthat at least one person in the
(13:07):
bed.
If a couple was in the same bedat the same time, one of them
had to have one foot on thefloor at all times.
I guess that gave someplausible deniability that they
might actually be having sex inthat bed.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
If one of them had their foot on the floor, surely
you cannot be having sex in thatbed if one of them had their
foot on the floor.
Surely you cannot be having sexif a foot's on the floor?
Speaker 1 (13:27):
I don't know how or why, but that that's kind of
what came to be um in real life.
However, by the 1950s, which isabout the time of the dawn of
television, um the onset of theby the, by that time, really,
and historically really, at thebeginning of the sexual
revolution, at that time,separate beds were by that time
(13:49):
already being viewed as a signof a distant or failing marriage
.
Um, and separate beds, quickly,um into the 1950s, began to be
discarded for double beds, orqueen beds, or king beds, or
even California king beds.
How big of a bed.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Wait, if a bed gets so big, then in essence you're
maybe back to not sleepingtogether.
It could be If you can sleep oneither side of the bed and not
touch at all, or even know thateach other is moving.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Maybe it's just another way to have separate
beds, but by that time, thebigger your bed became a sign of
status and it was also, I think, an underhanded rejection of
these puritanical views ofsexual shame.
So again, what was on TV didnot reflect the cultural views
of the time and that's why thatthose kinds of depictions did
(14:44):
not really last in popular media.
Um, I that said, separatesleeping arrangements for
married couples, um is reallyrecently beginning to make a
little bit of a resurgence.
Experts estimate thatapproximately one in four
married couples actually prefersleeping in separate beds on a
(15:06):
regular basis, and a recentsurvey found that up to one
third of couples sleep apart atleast occasionally, to help
improve their sleep.
This practice has begun to bereferred to as a quote sleep
divorce okay interesting so.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
So thank you for that historical deep dive into more
than you ever wanted to knowseparate beds for married
couples, but I thought it wasinteresting.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
It was it it was.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
It was interesting.
I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Maybe not, but I think it's maybe safe or maybe a
good idea to start thisconversation by considering what
are some reasons that couplesmay choose to sleep in separate
beds.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Yes, not many of us are bound by TV laws regarding
what's being depicted in ourbedroom.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
There is no Hays rule for your bedroom.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Good thing, all right .
So real reasons for real lifecouples to be sleeping in
separate beds.
Well, like our questionsalluded to, I think one of the
main reasons, or often a primaryreason, is health or medical
problems.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Yeah, Clearly this is the most common reason why
couples would choose to sleep inseparate beds is because of
health or medical issues,including like snoring or sleep
apnea.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Or maybe an illness that might be temporary, or it
might be a chronic illness orsomething like insomnia.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Right Insomnia, or if you just simply are a restless
sleeper and you don't want tokeep your part, or your constant
restlessness is keeping yoursleeping partner, your spouse,
awake as well.
Yeah, that would be perhaps areason that a couple might
consider sleeping in separatebeds or separate bedrooms.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
I think another reason that couples consider
this is frankly because ofdifferent schedules.
That couples consider this isfrankly because of different
schedules, like you alluded to,maybe your natural circadian
rhythm one being a night owl,one being a very early bird but
also things like work schedules,especially if one of you does
(17:11):
shift work and has to sleepduring the day and work during
the night or have differenthours like that.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
That certainly could be a reason to consider sleeping
separately, so that each of youcan get an adequate amount of
sleep without disturbing theother Kids.
I mean kids are a very commonreason why couples may choose to
sleep separately.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
At the very least not fall asleep together.
Often there is, you know, a kidwho won't sleep without a
parent in their room, and soit's kind of evolved into one
spouse is kind of going to bedwith that kid, waiting till they
fall asleep, but falling asleepthemselves and ending up in
that bed.
(17:52):
Or it could be that the kid isactually in the master bed, or
multiple kids are in the masterbed and therefore there's no
room for two spouses, there's noroom for two adults.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, so definitely, kids are a big factor here, and
I think another reason thatsometimes we don't want to admit
is just simply relationalconflict Sometimes, it's easier
to not be together.
We don't want to be in the samespace together, we don't want
to share any kind of intimate orclose time together, so we
(18:23):
choose to sleep separately and,frankly, that could be playing a
role in all of these otherreasons.
A little bit of snoring couldmake for an easy excuse for me
to just avoid being around you.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Or letting the kid be in our bed provides a buffer
between you and I, and I or thekid's needs come way above.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
you know where we should be relationally, so yeah
absolutely Over the past fewmonths and I think it's.
I don't think it's acoincidence that we got all of
these questions more recently,because over the past few months
there has been an increasingnumber of social media posts and
news articles and featuredarticles promoting this practice
(19:06):
of separate bedrooms forspouses.
I've noticed it even before wewere getting these questions,
that there has definitely been aresurgence in the popularity of
this idea, and Cameron Diaz youmay or may not care who that is
, but she is a celebrity ofsorts probably helped to further
(19:26):
popularize this concept.
Back in December of last yearshe said in an interview quote
we should normalize separatebedrooms.
To me, I would literally I havemy house, you have yours, we
have the family house in themiddle.
I will go and sleep in my room,you sleep in your room, I'm
fine, she said.
(19:46):
And we have the bedroom in themiddle so that we can convene in
for our relations.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I appreciate your, cameron Diaz.
You know interpretation Is thatan interpretive reading.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Well okay, cameron, well said, I think Real solid
argument you have there.
But she's not alone, she andher partner, husband, whomever
that may be.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
I have no idea.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Other celebrity couples, though, who are known
to sleep apart, include folkslike Gwyneth Paltrow and Brad
Felchuk.
They say that their separateliving arrangement is the key to
their marital bliss.
Brad sleeps at his home threenights, and then he stays with
Gwyneth for four nights.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Interesting arrangement Victoria and David
Beckham, gwyneth for four nights.
Okay, interesting arrangement.
Uh, victoria and david beckhamuh, this couple sleeps in
separate beds in their countryhome, with his and her wings of
their home, since, uh, as theysaid, their different lifestyles
were causing problems for theirsleeping arrangements he wants
to decorate and soccer stuff andshe does not.
Maybe I'm sure that's yeah boilsdown to that.
(20:56):
I'm sure the decor sarahjessica parker and matthew
broderick um have separate bedsin their townhome.
Their townhome, of course,probably doesn't look like your
townhome, because they have hisand her wings of their townhome
we don't have wings in our house.
I don't think that qualifies asa townhome anymore.
But interesting, Donald andMelania Trump this couple
(21:21):
reportedly and reliablyreportedly slept apart during
their time while they wereliving in the White House.
Interesting, Interesting Didn'tknow that about them?
Angelina Jolie and Brad PittYou'd think they were a happily
married power couple.
This couple reportedly slept,lived separately I should say
(21:43):
under the same roof until, ofcourse, they were divorced in
2016.
But again, another couple thathad his and her wings of their
home.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I can't say that I would turn to any of those
couples for marriage advice, norwould I think that I want to
emulate them.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
But again, I get what you're saying, that this is
something that's out in currentculture has seen a dramatic
increase almost double theamount of couples who are
looking to buy a home that hastwo master suites, as it were,
two primary suites, and so Ithink that says a lot.
(22:29):
Now, there might be more thanone reason why people are
looking for en suite bedroomsMaybe they have grandparents
living with them or somethingbut it can't be denied that
there are a lot of folks lookingfor two primary bedrooms His
and her bedroom.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yes, his and her bedroom.
It's a very interestinghistorical and culturally
relevant topic, but does theBible have anything to say about
this?
Speaker 1 (22:53):
That's always the question, isn't it?
I think it's probably safe tosay that the Bible does not give
specific instruction on whetheryou should or should not be
sleeping in the same bed.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Now Hebrews 13.4 refers to the marriage bed
singular.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Singular marriage bed in Hebrews 13.4, yes, but I
think it's probably a stretch.
I'm no biblical scholar of anycertification, but I think it's
a stretch to say that that wouldbe authority to condemn
separate sleeping arrangements.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Probably can't base that argument.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
If you're a biblical scholar and you want to weigh in
on that topic, we would inviteyour feedback.
Feedback at IntimateCovenantcom.
Let us know.
But there are other importantbiblical principles of marriage
here that I think that need tobe carefully considered in how
you choose your sleepingarrangements, particularly if
you're going to go away from thenorm, the historical norm,
(23:51):
which is sleeping in the samebed as your spouse.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
So here's where we spin this towards.
Great.
That was a lot of greatinformation, matt, but how does
it apply to my life?
Let's talk about the principles.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Let's talk about that .
So I think one importantprinciple that needs to be
considered is that ourarrangements ought to help us
avoid sexual immorality.
So whatever we're doing in ourmarriage and that includes
choosing how many beds we'regoing to sleep in and when we
ought to be doing that with amind towards helping each other
(24:23):
avoid sexual immorality.
That is part of the purpose ofmarital sex.
It's not the only purpose, byany means.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Well, and Hebrews 13.4, when it talks about
marriage, bed is an allusion tothe sexual relationship in your
marriage.
So obviously there's somethingvery intended in the oneness of
a one bed, exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
And that's what 1 Corinthians 7 is all about is
using marriage as a tool tocombat sexual temptation.
Combat sexual temptation.
I think another principle hereis the idea that in our
marriages we are obligated toserve and to cherish one another
.
So does our sleepingarrangement serve and cherish
(25:09):
our spouse?
And maybe we'll talk a littlebit more about what that might
mean specifically in a fewminutes.
But again, maybe that could goboth ways and I think I can see
how you could make an argumentone way or the other.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Well, and then I think everything in your
marriage should be for thepurpose of building spiritual,
emotional and sexual unity, andso that's an important principle
to consider when we'reconsidering even something like
how do we exist within our hometogether?
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yeah, does our sleeping arrangement promote
unity?
And again, that's an importantconsideration.
So, like everything, almosteverything in our marriage and
the decisions that we make aboutone thing or the other, a lot
of it comes down to what is mymotivation or the other.
A lot of it comes down to whatis my motivation.
Why am I choosing to do this?
Because it's not always as easyas book chapter and verse.
(26:02):
I can or can't do this.
Most of the time it's about whyam I doing this and what is my
reason for wanting to do this.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Well and clearly there's a difference in I need
to sleep alone for the sake ofgetting better rest versus I
don't want to be in the samespace as you.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Sure, yes, those are two reasons that we might give
for why we want to sleep indifferent bedrooms.
Now, we might not word it thatway, right, but your motivation
determines if your desire andyour decision is righteous and
if it's healthy for yourmarriage.
Um, you know, giving each otherthe freedom to rest without
(26:42):
interruption can be an amazinggift of service and an amazing
gift of love for your spouse,particularly if you have a
newborn or something else likethat when the hours of sleep are
few and far between yes, yes,cherishing your spouse by giving
them a chance to actually getrest.
That might be completelysacrificial on your part.
(27:03):
On the other hand, sleepingtogether, even if it means less
than stellar sleep, can be animportant sacrifice of showing
love to each other.
So the same decision can bemade out of sacrifice, or it can
be made out of selfishness, andthat's where the that's where
the rubber hits the road, asthey say.
(27:23):
That's that's where it getschallenging to discern what are
my motivations.
Uh, in this, I would say,though, that every step that we
take away from our spouses andand I mean that both emotionally
, physically, whatever way everystep we take away from our
spouses has inevitable negative,long-term consequences for the
(27:48):
relationship.
So, if you are choosing tosleep apart, even if you're
making that decision for goodreasons, those decisions to
sleep apart need to.
If you're making that decisionfor good reasons, those
decisions to sleep apart need tobe weighed very carefully and
to be constantly reevaluated.
Is this serving my marriage, isthis serving my spouse, or has
(28:08):
this become a selfish motivation?
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Right, Because sometimes our initial motivation
can shift right.
We might be starting out with apure what feels like a pure
motivation of we got a brand newbaby, I'm only going to get two
and a half hours of sleep, soI'm going to put myself in a
place where it's completelyquiet so I can just cling to
(28:33):
those two and a half hours.
But over time, maybe if there'semotional relational conflict
in the marriage but you knowwhat, being in my own sleeping
space, well, that's just easier.
I don't have to confront thoseissues.
So sometimes that initialmotivation can shift towards
self-serving motivation andmaybe we haven't even realized
(28:56):
that we've crossed that line.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
What starts out as something that's convenient can
become an opportunity, then, forself-serving self-serving sin
even, and might then be thefoundation for building
emotional, spiritual and sexualbarriers in your marriage.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
That initial convenience, that initial act of
service can sometimes be thefoundation for building a wall
between the two of you, and Ithink that's important to
acknowledge and recognize.
So I would also add I mean,we've been talking mostly in the
context of sleeping in separatebedrooms, bedrooms but I would
(29:39):
say that these principles alsoought to apply, and also ought
to be considered with respect toseparate bedtimes as well.
Now, it's not necessarily thesame degree of separation as
separate beds.
Um, when you're not sharing abedtime, though, you are opening
a door to create some barriers.
If you are not going to bed atthe same time, again, sometimes
just like perhaps buying abigger mattress it can become a
(30:03):
de facto means of sleeping apart.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah, I mean.
Many of us who would scoff atthe idea of separate bedrooms
right, might actually realizethat they are in fact
participating in sleep divorce.
Sure, because they're rarelyactually in bed together awake.
Right, exactly you know, if oneof you falls asleep very
quickly and very deeply, you'renot even awake when your spouse
comes to bed, you know.
(30:31):
Does it even matter if you'rein the same room?
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Sure right, right.
You are missing out If youdon't share a bedtime, if you
don't share this bedtime routine, you're missing out on so many
built in opportunities forconnection, uh, opportunities
for connection for um intimacy.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Well, and I think why that is like what is special
about bedtime?
Well, when I think about it, Ithink what we recognize is that
bedtime is naturally.
It's disarming.
It is vulnerable.
There is something veryvulnerable to going to bed
together and even those momentsof preparing to go to bed, of
(31:10):
getting in bed with one another,that's meant to be a vulnerable
time and those can creategolden moments of conversation,
of just simple cuddling, ofintimacy on many different
levels.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Oh, absolutely.
And if you have kids, yourecognize this.
You take advantage of thoseopportunities.
That's when things arerelatively quiet, that's when
you have focused attention ofeach other.
It's an opportunity for some ofthose conversations that you
just can't happen during thebusyness of the day.
It's a golden moment.
It's a golden opportunity, andif you don't have the same
(31:47):
bedtime you're missing thatopportunity.
It doesn't mean you can't makethat up in other ways, but it is
an opportunity.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
It is something you have to recognize.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
And so separate bedtimes promote emotional and
physical drifting away from oneanother.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
I mean, that is the reality of separate bedtimes,
and so that really allows formore opportunity for selfishness
and betrayal.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Yeah, just lots of spouses, for example, lots of
spouses who have been in bondageto pornography, will tell you
that their sin gripped tightestwhile their partner was in bed
without them.
Just ask around.
If you don't believe me, askthose that have suffered through
that.
It just creates opportunitiesfor selfishness and for drifting
(32:36):
apart.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
And you might be saying but that's not our story,
we're not saying that'severybody's story, but this is a
place to be aware what are thethings that can happen when we
choose separate bedrooms orseparate bedtimes.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
If it's what you've chosen or if it's something
you're considering, these arethings you have to factor into
that conversation.
Chosen or if it's somethingyou're considering, these are
things you have to factor intothat conversation.
I would say, despite thisrecent modern resurgence in the
practice of sleep divorce asit's been called, the actual
scientific research is fairlyone-sided about the benefits of
(33:12):
co-sleeping with your spouse.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Here you are pulling out a science, a scientific
research.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Let me just warn you.
I read no less than 20scientific articles about this
and if you're really interested,I'll even include those in the
show notes if you're interestedin doing the research yourself.
But let's and I'll use some airquotes follow the science on
this topic.
One study demonstrated thatsleeping with your spouse
(33:45):
promotes health by lowering thestress hormone, cortisol, and
reducing the cytokines that arelinked to inflammation.
It's just better for yourhealth to have someone sleeping
beside you, contrary to thedoctor that we quoted from the
1920s, sleeping together is alsothought to boost oxytocin
levels, which are known to loweranxiety levels and to promote
(34:05):
connectedness in yourrelationship.
In at least five other studieson this topic of co-sleeping,
all of them confirmed thatsleeping with a spouse improves
your sleep quality, especiallyin women.
For some reason, I don't know,couples with different bedtimes
(34:26):
and again, that's not differentbeds, that's couples with
different bedtimes have less sexand more conflict.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
And that's just what the science says.
That's what it says.
That's not Matt and Jen.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Is that surprising?
I don't think.
If any of us really sat downand thought about it, that
probably is not surprising, butit's not always what you hear
and it's not always what we do.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Right, right, I mean.
I think it's no surprise thatresearch validates that when you
aren't sleeping well, you andyour relationship will also
suffer too.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Sure, there's another side to this.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
It goes both ways.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Definitely another side of this.
Spouses of snorers morefrequently report sleeping
problems, insomnia, daytimefatigue and sleepiness.
So therefore, wives of patientswho are suffering from
obstructive sleep apnea perceivetheir marriages as more
stressful.
If you're not sleeping,especially if it's because of
(35:19):
your spouse, your marriage isgoing to be more stressful.
More conflict was reported inromantic relationships following
poor nights of sleep.
If one or both of you does notsleep well, you are likely going
to have more conflict thefollowing day likely going to
have more conflict the followingday.
Spouses of patients beingtreated for obstructive sleep
(35:40):
apnea were significantly moredepressed and socially isolated.
It has a negative impact onyour personal well-being if your
spouse is keeping you up atnight.
It is also perhaps reasonableknowing all of this.
Again, this is probably commonsense, but, again, the research
(36:01):
also bears this out.
It is definitely reasonablethat a couple should prioritize
a good night's sleep.
How, then, do we balance theneed for sleep with the clear
benefits of shared bedtimes andsleeping together?
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Particularly if you have these issues between you or
among you in your marriage andin your marriage bed.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Right?
So where we land this podcastis what do Matt and Jen think,
right?
That's why people asked us thequestion, and we are not going
to claim, like we never claim tohave all the answers for your
marriage or even for themarriages of those that posed
these questions to us in thefirst place, but I think we have
some thoughts about what everycouple should be trying to
(36:47):
prioritize.
What that looks like in yourmarriage is between you and your
beloved?
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yes, but since our opinion was asked, We'll oblige,
I'm not afraid, to give myopinion and at least some
principles that have to beconsidered and thought about.
And I will give you my urging,or my admonition for what I
think that should look like inyour marriage, to the best of
your ability.
One is go to bed at the sametime.
(37:13):
Whatever that looks like,whatever that takes, go to bed
at the same time.
You don't both have to go tosleep at the same time.
Whatever that looks like,whatever that takes, go to bed
at the same time.
You don't both have to go tosleep at the same time, right,
but you should both do whateverit takes to unite your bedtime
routine, your nighttime routine,so that you are spending some
(37:34):
quality time, even if it's justa few minutes.
Yes, routine so that you arespending some quality time, even
if it's just a few minutes.
That few minutes of connectionat the end of the day will make
a big difference in continuingto build relationship.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
We know this because this was our story right.
This changed everything in ourmarriage, because you are a
night owl and most people knowabout me that I think 9 pm
should be everybody's bedtime.
Nothing should be happeningpast 9 pm.
I'm a morning person, though,and you're not, and so we had to
(38:05):
make a very strong effort.
We recognized the detriment inour marriage that was happening
because, especially when we hadlittle kids, I was exhausted
Absolutely and I went to bed andyou did not, and that
negatively affected us.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Oh, it negatively affected our emotional
connection, our sexualconnection.
It negatively impacted ourentire marriage.
So we made some sacrifices.
One of us worked really hard tostay up a little bit later.
By taking a nap during the day,whatever it takes, and one of us
works really hard to get up alittle bit later, and by taking
a nap during the day it takes,and one of us works really hard
(38:41):
to get up a little bit earlierthan I normally would, and so we
can blend our bedtimes.
I don't fall asleep when jendoes, no I?
Speaker 2 (38:47):
I hit the pillow and I'm out cold, right I?
What do I do I?
I pick up my book and I mayberead one paragraph and then my
head's flopping and I'm out, andthen I take her book out of her
lap and I turn her light off.
Yeah, you know what it lookslike in that in Jen's bed.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
No, you don't.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
No, you don't, but yes.
So again our opinion, and thisis coming from what we have
lived go to bed at the same time.
It just creates moreopportunity for connection.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
As much as it is within your power to sleep.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
At the same time, it just creates more opportunity
for connection absolutely asmuch as it is in within your
power.
Sleep at the same time probablydoesn't necessarily need to be
stated, but maybe we'll go aheadand state it.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
If you're going to go to bed at the same time, go to
bed at the same time in the samebed yes, whatever it is,
whatever it takes, go to bed inthe same bed, as much as that is
possible, understanding thatthere are are sometimes some
things that get in the way ofthat.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
But that principle should be your norm.
That should be your norm.
What you're striving for, thatshould be your goal.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yes, agreed, agreed.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
And to that point, that means you probably need to
get kids and or otherdistractors out of your bedroom.
Yeah, um, you, you've got to dothe work, whatever that looks
like, to get things in order sothat you have the opportunity to
go to bed at the same time andin the same bed.
Right, and I will just say if,if there is a time in which you
(40:12):
must sleep apart, yeah, and I'mnot we're're not condemning that
.
Okay, let's be clear about that.
We're not condemning sleepingapart.
There is some, perhaps sometimes where that might be
appropriate.
I would say, if you're going tosleep apart, though, number one
, you need to very clearly andintentionally state and define
your purpose for separatesleeping arrangements and, in so
(40:34):
doing, set a timetable then toreassess your situation.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Right, don't just stumble into this and realize,
you know what?
We're not sleeping togetheranymore, or we're going to bed
at such different times that weare, in essence, not sleeping
together.
So this should be a veryintentional decision and within
that intentionality, you shouldhave the conversation about when
(41:00):
are we reassessing this?
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
And we have a timetable in which we are
working again to make our norm,our goal, what we're striving
for, that oneness of beingtogether.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
You might get six or eight, six or months or six
weeks down the road and decideyou know what?
We're in the same situation.
We haven't been able to resolvethese issues that are forcing
us to sleep apart, and we mightneed to make the same decision
again.
But make it a decision.
It should not be.
It should not be your default.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Right.
And so within that conversationshould be an assessing of what
are our reasons for sleepingapart, and are those reasons
selfish or are they serving?
And ask yourself the questionis our marriage better or worse
because of this decision?
Speaker 1 (41:44):
and maybe it's both, and so you're going to need to
weigh.
How important is it that wecontinue sleeping separately?
How important is it that we tryto get things back together?
Are we more or less connectedbecause of this decision to
sleep separately?
Speaker 2 (42:00):
And if you must sleep apart, then I think another
important aspect is that you'vegot to be even more creative
with your well-rested mind.
You're right, your body shouldbe well-rested mentally and
physically to make anopportunity for emotional and
sexual connection.
So you've got to recognize thatyou are taking away a natural
(42:23):
place where emotional and sexualconnections can happen, and so
you have to be intentional aboutputting that in in another way.
So if you're sleepingseparately, you have to work
harder to connect, yes, and beintentional about it.
And you've got to put in thatnew separately.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
You have to work harder to connect, yes, and be
intentional about it.
And you've got to put in thatnew energy that you have.
You've got to put some of thatenergy to work in your
relationship because you'vecreated a barrier right.
You've created this physicalbarrier between you that often
turns into an emotional barrier.
You're putting that between you.
You've got to work harder toget past that and so use that
energy and make the time to makethose connections.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
I would say this is where scheduling sex would be
very important for a couple likethis.
You need to know when are wehaving sex regularly, and that's
maybe every Sunday night.
You sit down and have theconversation.
What does this week look like?
What are the nights that we aregoing to be purposeful about
connecting?
Or the mornings, maybe it's weget up together.
We might not be in the sameroom for whatever reason, but
(43:23):
we're going to get up together.
Or your work schedule and mywork schedule are so off.
Where are the hours where we doconnect?
Speaker 1 (43:30):
And it might be fun to ask your spouse your place or
mine One way to spin it.
It could add some spice to yourrelationship, but I guess I
can't deny that.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
But I think you need to be very sensitive to
emotional or sexual drift inyour relationship.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Yes, for sure.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
If you must sleep apart.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
So, as much as it is within your power, eliminate
whatever the barriers are tosleeping together so that you
can get to bed in bed with eachother as often as possible.
That might mean you've got toretrain your kids to sleep on
their own in their own bedrooms,and that is going to be, in
some cases, just terrible forweeks, right, it's no one's
(44:12):
going to sleep for weeks.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
It might be a process , depending on how old your kids
are, depending on what theirsleep issues are.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
And what you've trained them to do.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
What you've trained them and, frankly, you might
need to pull in someprofessionals.
There are a lot of peoplespecially trained in helping
children sleep better.
So don't just suffer and haveyour children suffer.
Maybe you need some additionalhelp.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Don't accept that this is the way that it has to
be.
You don't accept that this isthe way that it has to be.
You don't want to your kids tobe 20 years old and still
sleeping in your bedroom.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Oh, you definitely don't, but maybe it's.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Maybe it's not kids, maybe it's health problems that
are keeping you apart, and so bewilling to address those health
yeah, whether it's sleep apneaor snoring or restless leg
syndrome or anxiety or whateverother issues that it might be,
you need to address those things.
Look, I'm just going to befrank with you.
If your spouse can't sleepbecause of your snoring, you are
(45:09):
a selfish jerk, and I don'tmean that lightly.
You're a jerk if you have notdone everything possible to try
to correct that problem.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
And there's a lot out there that can correct snoring
problems.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Depriving your spouse of sleep is simply cruel.
That's kind of harsh.
It's cruel.
Why would you do that tosomeone that you say that you
love?
Yeah, it's just cruel.
And look, there are so manyoptions.
Most sleep and snoring problemscan be resolved with relatively
(45:42):
simple interventions, and youshould be doing something about
that Now.
I will add sleeping apartdoesn't necessarily help you
sleep better, even if yourspouse is a snorer.
Again, one more research study.
Well, okay, maybe not one more,but in terms of sleep quality
and the negative relationalimpacts, at least in one study
(46:04):
there were no differences foundbetween the spouses of snorers
who slept in the same room andthose who slept in separate
rooms.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Those spouses that slept separately.
Their relationships were notbetter and they did not sleep
better.
Interesting result yeah, butagain, most sleep and snoring
problems can be corrected, and Iwould add to that in it.
Okay, here's another studyCouples who were sleeping
(46:34):
separately due to sleep apneaamong all those couples, couples
who were sleeping separatelydue to sleep apnea among all
those couples.
72 percent of these couplesstarted to be able to sleep
together again after treatment.
Three-fourths of those couples,if they got treatment, they
were able to sleep togetheragain and among those, almost 70
percent of them said that theirpersonal lives had improved and
(46:56):
their spouses said.
Three-quarters of them saidthat they recognized the benefit
of therapy for themselves andfor their spouse and for their
relationship.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Well, I mean the person suffering from sleep
apnea.
You're not getting the rest.
You need.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
You're not sleeping either, right, so you're keeping
both of you awake.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Yes, neither of you are sleeping well, so it makes
sense that those that got helptheir personal lives improved
because everybody is sleepingbetter.
Absolutely and sleep is animportant thing.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Absolutely.
Another problem we talked aboutwas work, and look, I
understand people got to make aliving.
Sometimes your best choice isto make a living working
terrible hours, and I recognizethat that is a sacrifice and I
applaud you for making thesacrifice to do what it takes to
provide for your family.
That's important.
(47:44):
I would not negate that.
However, if you were in a jobinterview and your prospective
boss said we think you're agreat fit for our company and we
want to pay you well, but thisjob is definitely going to be
bad for your marriage and foryour family, would you take that
job?
Some of you already have.
(48:04):
Just to put it frankly, some ofyou have taken that job knowing
that it's a bad choice for yourmarriage and a bad choice for
your family, and we're blessedin this country that we don't
have to keep the jobs that wehave in most cases.
So sometimes you just got tomake a different decision.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Maybe it's time to reevaluate the cost of your
choice.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
Every choice has a cost.
Sometimes getting a goodnight's sleep means that you are
making a sacrifice to thequality of the connection in
your marriage.
So, again, we all have to weighthese choices and not saying
it's an easy choice, not sayingthat this is an easy solution,
not saying that you have tosleep in the same bed or that
you have to have the samebedtime.
We just think there's somewisdom in thinking about why are
(48:54):
you doing what you're doing?
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Right, all right, this has been a long one.
Hopefully we didn't put anybodyto sleep.
See what I did there.
Wow, Good one honey, All rightNat Give us our wrap up.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Every step we take away from our spouses,
especially physically, hasinevitable negative long-term
consequences for therelationship.
Negative long-term consequencesfor the relationship, and these
decisions to sleep apart shouldbe weighed carefully and be
constantly re-evaluated.
As much as is within your power, eliminate the barriers to
(49:28):
sleeping together so that youcan get you can get in bed with
each other as often as possible,and likewise, separate bedtimes
also promote emotional andphysical drift away from each
other and they allow foropportunity for selfishness and
betrayal.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
So now it's time to grab your spouse and your Bible
and head to your kitchen tableto have the conversation about
your bedtime routines, Whetheryou are sleeping in the same bed
at the same time or not.
Does your current bedtimeroutine promote connection or
not?
Speaker 1 (50:04):
We would love to hear your feedback.
Contact us by emailing podcastat intimatecovenantcom or you
can submit anonymous feedbackquestions by going to our
website, intimatecovenantcomslash podcast.
You can click the buttonContact the Podcast for an
anonymous submission form.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Thanks to all of you for listening, subscribing,
rating and sharing the podcast.
We're truly humbled by all yourencouragement and support.
Thanks especially to ourPatreon subscribers for coming
alongside us in a very real way.
If Intimate Covenant hasblessed your marriage, we'd love
to have you join us.
Subscribe at patreoncom.
(50:40):
Slash intimate covenant.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
Until next time, keep striving and don't settle.
Hey, Jen want to talk about sleeping in separate beds
.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I thought you would never ask.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Great.
In this episode we're talkingabout separate beds and separate
bedtimes.
Is a good night's sleep moreimportant than a single master
suite?
Let's do it.
Welcome friends.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
We are Matt and Jen, and this is the Intimate
Covenant Podcast where webelieve the Bible and great
married sex, both belong on thekitchen table.
That's right.
We're talking about godlymarriage and hot sex and
emotionally fulfilling onenessin your marriage.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Hey, matt, did you know that, according to the
National Association of HomeBuilders, the number of home
buyers looking for two master orprimary and secondary bedroom
suites rose from 25% to 40%between 2003 and 2018.
?
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Interesting fact.
I did not know that Actually, Idid know that because I did the
research for this but many ofus probably don't recognize or
realize how prevalent sleepingin separate bedrooms has become,
but we'll talk more about thatas we get into the episode.
Before we get there, though, wewant to make you aware of two
(01:19):
important announcements.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
That's right, First one being we are doing a Kingdom
Singles event in our ownbackyard.
We've done these across thenation and we've traveled for
various marriage days andmarriage weekends, but never one
here in the Houston area.
So we heard you loud and clear,Houston peeps, and we are
having a Kingdom Singles eventin the Woodlands.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Texas, just north of Houston.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
That'll be on Saturday, july 20th.
Our target audience isunmarried young adults like
20-ish, 30-ish kind of.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
We won't be checking your IDs we will not.
We are looking to target adults, not necessarily the high
school age.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
No, we've done stuff for high schoolers, but we're
moving up to the 20s and 30s andour topics will be finding
spiritual purpose whileunmarried.
We're also going to spend sometime talking about struggling
with sexual desire as a singleindividual and how to go about
dating with righteous intention.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Some important topics , I think, for those who are
unmarried, and obviously ourprimary purpose and goal with
Intimate Covenant has, I guess,traditionally been working with
married couples, but we alsorecognize that singles deal with
a lot of these issues and thereis certainly some overlap in
what we've done with marriedcouples and singles.
(02:43):
But we also want to challengethese young people and encourage
them in their walk.
Being unmarried.
They certainly have some uniquechallenges to their situations,
but it won't be all you knowboring lecture with Matt and Jen
.
It's also going to be someopportunity for some
socialization socializing, Ishould say, and fun yeah.
(03:07):
So we're very much lookingforward to that event and for
engaging with those young folks.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
So not many singles are listening to our podcast,
which means we need you, ourmarried friends, to help spread
the word.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah, save the date.
That is again July 20th.
If you can save the date, thenwe'll get some information out
and broadcast that through thevarious channels.
But save that date, july 20th.
Of course, we also want tomention our annual retreat.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
That's right.
September 19th through the 21stthis year, that's a Thursday
through Saturday.
Through the 21st this year,that's a Thursday through
Saturday.
Our theme this year, it'sdesire reigniting emotional and
sexual connection in yourmarriage.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, so we're very much looking forward to that.
Lots of preparation underwayfor that.
We do have a really excitingannouncement with respect to the
retreat.
We now have a game plan and ahost, an entertainer, as it were
, for our Thursday night kickoff.
(04:12):
That's right we will be havinga game show night specifically
curated for an Intimate Covenantretreat and audience.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yes, it's going to be a game show with an intimate
covenant twist.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Yes, this has been created and will be hosted by
our good friend, josh Metcalf,who is here locally in Houston,
worships with us, and we've beengood friends for quite some
time.
If you don't know Josh, youshould simply know he is
absolutely hilarious andextremely creative, particularly
(04:50):
when it comes to making games.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yes.
So he has created a wholewonderful evening full of games,
and there's going to be lots offun.
There's going to be lots ofcomedy.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And there will even be prizes, prizes, yes.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
And the good news is, no single person will have to
be embarrassed.
No, no, don't worry about beingcalled to the stage if you
don't want to be called to thestage, but plenty of opportunity
for those who want to reallycompete, and everyone will have
a chance to win some fantasticprizes.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
It's going to be fun.
We're really looking forward tothat.
But the whole retreat is goingto have plenty of time for
relaxation, uninterruptedconversations with you and your
beloved, and there are only ahandful of spots remaining.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Literally not very many spots left, so if you would
like to come, we still haveroom for you.
We want you to be there.
You can reserve your spot forjust a $200 deposit, with the
balance not due until the middleof August, so you got plenty of
time to reserve your spot.
Save up for the rest, but besure and sign up and join us.
(06:05):
We really want to have youthere.
The topic this year of desireis going to be, I think, a
really helpful one to help usreignite our marriage and the
passion in our marriages.
So that is our plan.
It's going to be great.
You can find it atIntimateCovenantcom.
Slash retreat.
That'll get you to theregistration page.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
All right.
So getting into today's topic,this episode comes from no less
than three different couples atrecent events, all posed to us a
very similar question.
We've also received a fewemails regarding this question
and so within the last couple ofmonths, it's really been
(06:46):
interesting.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
All of these questions have come up uh same
time, so that was a signal to usthat we need to do an episode
on this topic that's right, andall of their questions had to do
about sleeping in separate bedsand or having separate bedtimes
.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
So some of the questions, for example, were
what is your opinion on sleepingin separate rooms?
This is due to different sleepschedules and snoring.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Another person asked what if the husband works nights
and the wife sleeps in adifferent place than the husband
?
We do make time for weeklyalone time.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
And then another question, uh, and we hear this
one a lot sure our young childscreams for hours if one of us
does not sleep in the same bedwith her.
Because of this, we have littletime with each other in the
evenings and we are rarelyhaving sex.
How can we get closer as acouple?
Speaker 1 (07:40):
all great questions, all, uh, challenging questions.
I think all of us that havebeen married, particularly with
kids, have struggled with thisto some degree or another,
whether it's newborns that don,one of you is a night owl and
the other is a early bird, andso many couples struggle with
(08:12):
having different sort ofcircadian rhythms, if it were,
as it were.
So, historically, though, thisis also an interesting topic, as
I kind of dug into this alittle bit in doing a little bit
of research for this episode.
It's just an interesting topic,and I wanted to at least share
some of the historical andcultural significance to this
(08:35):
topic, I think one it may beinformative for you, but also I
just thought it was interestingand relevant, I think, to this
topic.
Interesting, um and, um, youknow, relevant, I think, to this
topic.
Um, I, I think it's safe to saythat in general, across
cultures, throughout history,that co-sleeping with your
spouse has been the norm, right,generally speaking, broadly
(08:58):
speaking, right.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
We kind of associate that with something that married
people do sure right and how.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
It's also safe to say that in Western culture between
around the 1850s to the 1950s,twin beds were viewed as the
preferred sleeping arrangementfor upper-class married couples,
that is, separate beds and evenseparate bedrooms.
For example, dr Edwin Bowers,whomever he might be, wrote a
(09:27):
book called Sleeping for Healthin 1919.
Quoting from that book, he saysseparate beds for every sleeper
are as necessary as areseparate dishes for every eater.
They promote comfort,cleanliness and the natural
delicacy that exists among humanbeings.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
The natural delicacy.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
It's very very properly put.
I can't necessarily disagreethat it is in some ways more
comfortable, maybe more clean,but that was his opinion.
His educated pontificationsabout how we should sleep the
(10:10):
shame-filled and puritanicalsexual taboos of the Victorian
age around that time probably,however, were fueling, at least
to some degree, this unfoundedmedical advice of his time.
In fact, did you know thatQueen Elizabeth and Prince
Philip slept in separatebedrooms for their entire
(10:34):
75-year marriage?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I did not know that.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
That is remarkable.
Hopefully they didn't spend allof their time in separate
bedrooms, but at the very leastthey had separate bedrooms and
they slept at least in separatebedrooms.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Did you learn that from the Crown?
Speaker 1 (10:52):
No, I did not.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
You don't think that that's a historically accurate
telling?
I have no idea.
We'll see.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Don't have a lot of interest in the British monarchy
, but I do think it'sinteresting, though, that
vestiges of this kind of, we'llsay, sexually repressed thinking
do show up even in popularearly American television shows
clips of I Love Lucy or the DickVan Dyke show, where the
(11:25):
couples their married couplesare shown, at least on the
television screen, as sleepingin separate beds.
Even though they're in the samebedroom.
They had separate beds,separated by a nightstand and a
cute lamp, and they get in bed,say goodnight to each other
across the space between theseseparate beds.
(11:47):
You might be interested to knowthat one of the first couples
to be shown in bed together on atelevision screen are Fred and
Wilma Flintstone.
Maybe they could get away withit because they were cartoons.
I mean, they were from thefuture.
No, they definitely were notfrom the future, no, but maybe
(12:13):
because they were cartoons theycould get away with it.
Sure, but you might wonder whyit is, why something so
obviously out of place on TV?
Well, in the 1950s and 60sthere was this rule called the
Hays Code, and it's a set ofrules that dictated what could
be shown on television and whatcould not be shown on television
(12:35):
, and that code required thatmarried couples sleep in
separate beds when depicted ontelevision.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
No idea how or why that came to be, other than I
can just say sexual repressionor at least an unwillingness to
confront the reality of sex inmarriage.
There was this one foot rulethat was enforced for these
television couples, which meantthat at least one person in the
(13:07):
bed.
If a couple was in the same bedat the same time, one of them
had to have one foot on thefloor at all times.
I guess that gave someplausible deniability that they
might actually be having sex inthat bed.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
If one of them had their foot on the floor, surely
you cannot be having sex in thatbed if one of them had their
foot on the floor.
Surely you cannot be having sexif a foot's on the floor?
Speaker 1 (13:27):
I don't know how or why, but that that's kind of
what came to be um in real life.
However, by the 1950s, which isabout the time of the dawn of
television, um the onset of theby the, by that time, really,
and historically really, at thebeginning of the sexual
revolution, at that time,separate beds were by that time
(13:49):
already being viewed as a signof a distant or failing marriage
.
Um, and separate beds, quickly,um into the 1950s, began to be
discarded for double beds, orqueen beds, or king beds, or
even California king beds.
How big of a bed.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Wait, if a bed gets so big, then in essence you're
maybe back to not sleepingtogether.
It could be If you can sleep oneither side of the bed and not
touch at all, or even know thateach other is moving.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Maybe it's just another way to have separate
beds, but by that time, thebigger your bed became a sign of
status and it was also, I think, an underhanded rejection of
these puritanical views ofsexual shame.
So again, what was on TV didnot reflect the cultural views
of the time and that's why thatthose kinds of depictions did
(14:44):
not really last in popular media.
Um, I that said, separatesleeping arrangements for
married couples, um is reallyrecently beginning to make a
little bit of a resurgence.
Experts estimate thatapproximately one in four
married couples actually prefersleeping in separate beds on a
(15:06):
regular basis, and a recentsurvey found that up to one
third of couples sleep apart atleast occasionally, to help
improve their sleep.
This practice has begun to bereferred to as a quote sleep
divorce okay interesting so.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
So thank you for that historical deep dive into more
than you ever wanted to knowseparate beds for married
couples, but I thought it wasinteresting.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
It was it it was.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
It was interesting.
I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Maybe not, but I think it's maybe safe or maybe a
good idea to start thisconversation by considering what
are some reasons that couplesmay choose to sleep in separate
beds.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Yes, not many of us are bound by TV laws regarding
what's being depicted in ourbedroom.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
There is no Hays rule for your bedroom.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Good thing, all right .
So real reasons for real lifecouples to be sleeping in
separate beds.
Well, like our questionsalluded to, I think one of the
main reasons, or often a primaryreason, is health or medical
problems.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Yeah, Clearly this is the most common reason why
couples would choose to sleep inseparate beds is because of
health or medical issues,including like snoring or sleep
apnea.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Or maybe an illness that might be temporary, or it
might be a chronic illness orsomething like insomnia.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Right Insomnia, or if you just simply are a restless
sleeper and you don't want tokeep your part, or your constant
restlessness is keeping yoursleeping partner, your spouse,
awake as well.
Yeah, that would be perhaps areason that a couple might
consider sleeping in separatebeds or separate bedrooms.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
I think another reason that couples consider
this is frankly because ofdifferent schedules.
That couples consider this isfrankly because of different
schedules, like you alluded to,maybe your natural circadian
rhythm one being a night owl,one being a very early bird but
also things like work schedules,especially if one of you does
(17:11):
shift work and has to sleepduring the day and work during
the night or have differenthours like that.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
That certainly could be a reason to consider sleeping
separately, so that each of youcan get an adequate amount of
sleep without disturbing theother Kids.
I mean kids are a very commonreason why couples may choose to
sleep separately.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
At the very least not fall asleep together.
Often there is, you know, a kidwho won't sleep without a
parent in their room, and soit's kind of evolved into one
spouse is kind of going to bedwith that kid, waiting till they
fall asleep, but falling asleepthemselves and ending up in
that bed.
(17:52):
Or it could be that the kid isactually in the master bed, or
multiple kids are in the masterbed and therefore there's no
room for two spouses, there's noroom for two adults.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, so definitely, kids are a big factor here, and
I think another reason thatsometimes we don't want to admit
is just simply relationalconflict Sometimes, it's easier
to not be together.
We don't want to be in the samespace together, we don't want
to share any kind of intimate orclose time together, so we
(18:23):
choose to sleep separately and,frankly, that could be playing a
role in all of these otherreasons.
A little bit of snoring couldmake for an easy excuse for me
to just avoid being around you.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Or letting the kid be in our bed provides a buffer
between you and I, and I or thekid's needs come way above.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
you know where we should be relationally, so yeah
absolutely Over the past fewmonths and I think it's.
I don't think it's acoincidence that we got all of
these questions more recently,because over the past few months
there has been an increasingnumber of social media posts and
news articles and featuredarticles promoting this practice
(19:06):
of separate bedrooms forspouses.
I've noticed it even before wewere getting these questions,
that there has definitely been aresurgence in the popularity of
this idea, and Cameron Diaz youmay or may not care who that is
, but she is a celebrity ofsorts probably helped to further
(19:26):
popularize this concept.
Back in December of last yearshe said in an interview quote
we should normalize separatebedrooms.
To me, I would literally I havemy house, you have yours, we
have the family house in themiddle.
I will go and sleep in my room,you sleep in your room, I'm
fine, she said.
(19:46):
And we have the bedroom in themiddle so that we can convene in
for our relations.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I appreciate your, cameron Diaz.
You know interpretation Is thatan interpretive reading.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Well okay, cameron, well said, I think Real solid
argument you have there.
But she's not alone, she andher partner, husband, whomever
that may be.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
I have no idea.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Other celebrity couples, though, who are known
to sleep apart, include folkslike Gwyneth Paltrow and Brad
Felchuk.
They say that their separateliving arrangement is the key to
their marital bliss.
Brad sleeps at his home threenights, and then he stays with
Gwyneth for four nights.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Interesting arrangement Victoria and David
Beckham, gwyneth for four nights.
Okay, interesting arrangement.
Uh, victoria and david beckhamuh, this couple sleeps in
separate beds in their countryhome, with his and her wings of
their home, since, uh, as theysaid, their different lifestyles
were causing problems for theirsleeping arrangements he wants
to decorate and soccer stuff andshe does not.
Maybe I'm sure that's yeah boilsdown to that.
(20:56):
I'm sure the decor sarahjessica parker and matthew
broderick um have separate bedsin their townhome.
Their townhome, of course,probably doesn't look like your
townhome, because they have hisand her wings of their townhome
we don't have wings in our house.
I don't think that qualifies asa townhome anymore.
But interesting, Donald andMelania Trump this couple
(21:21):
reportedly and reliablyreportedly slept apart during
their time while they wereliving in the White House.
Interesting, Interesting Didn'tknow that about them?
Angelina Jolie and Brad PittYou'd think they were a happily
married power couple.
This couple reportedly slept,lived separately I should say
(21:43):
under the same roof until, ofcourse, they were divorced in
2016.
But again, another couple thathad his and her wings of their
home.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I can't say that I would turn to any of those
couples for marriage advice, norwould I think that I want to
emulate them.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
But again, I get what you're saying, that this is
something that's out in currentculture has seen a dramatic
increase almost double theamount of couples who are
looking to buy a home that hastwo master suites, as it were,
two primary suites, and so Ithink that says a lot.
(22:29):
Now, there might be more thanone reason why people are
looking for en suite bedroomsMaybe they have grandparents
living with them or somethingbut it can't be denied that
there are a lot of folks lookingfor two primary bedrooms His
and her bedroom.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yes, his and her bedroom.
It's a very interestinghistorical and culturally
relevant topic, but does theBible have anything to say about
this?
Speaker 1 (22:53):
That's always the question, isn't it?
I think it's probably safe tosay that the Bible does not give
specific instruction on whetheryou should or should not be
sleeping in the same bed.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Now Hebrews 13.4 refers to the marriage bed
singular.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Singular marriage bed in Hebrews 13.4, yes, but I
think it's probably a stretch.
I'm no biblical scholar of anycertification, but I think it's
a stretch to say that that wouldbe authority to condemn
separate sleeping arrangements.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Probably can't base that argument.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
If you're a biblical scholar and you want to weigh in
on that topic, we would inviteyour feedback.
Feedback at IntimateCovenantcom.
Let us know.
But there are other importantbiblical principles of marriage
here that I think that need tobe carefully considered in how
you choose your sleepingarrangements, particularly if
you're going to go away from thenorm, the historical norm,
(23:51):
which is sleeping in the samebed as your spouse.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
So here's where we spin this towards.
Great.
That was a lot of greatinformation, matt, but how does
it apply to my life?
Let's talk about the principles.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Let's talk about that .
So I think one importantprinciple that needs to be
considered is that ourarrangements ought to help us
avoid sexual immorality.
So whatever we're doing in ourmarriage and that includes
choosing how many beds we'regoing to sleep in and when we
ought to be doing that with amind towards helping each other
(24:23):
avoid sexual immorality.
That is part of the purpose ofmarital sex.
It's not the only purpose, byany means.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Well, and Hebrews 13.4, when it talks about
marriage, bed is an allusion tothe sexual relationship in your
marriage.
So obviously there's somethingvery intended in the oneness of
a one bed, exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
And that's what 1 Corinthians 7 is all about is
using marriage as a tool tocombat sexual temptation.
Combat sexual temptation.
I think another principle hereis the idea that in our
marriages we are obligated toserve and to cherish one another
.
So does our sleepingarrangement serve and cherish
(25:09):
our spouse?
And maybe we'll talk a littlebit more about what that might
mean specifically in a fewminutes.
But again, maybe that could goboth ways and I think I can see
how you could make an argumentone way or the other.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Well, and then I think everything in your
marriage should be for thepurpose of building spiritual,
emotional and sexual unity, andso that's an important principle
to consider when we'reconsidering even something like
how do we exist within our hometogether?
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yeah, does our sleeping arrangement promote
unity?
And again, that's an importantconsideration.
So, like everything, almosteverything in our marriage and
the decisions that we make aboutone thing or the other, a lot
of it comes down to what is mymotivation or the other.
A lot of it comes down to whatis my motivation.
Why am I choosing to do this?
Because it's not always as easyas book chapter and verse.
(26:02):
I can or can't do this.
Most of the time it's about whyam I doing this and what is my
reason for wanting to do this.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Well and clearly there's a difference in I need
to sleep alone for the sake ofgetting better rest versus I
don't want to be in the samespace as you.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Sure, yes, those are two reasons that we might give
for why we want to sleep indifferent bedrooms.
Now, we might not word it thatway, right, but your motivation
determines if your desire andyour decision is righteous and
if it's healthy for yourmarriage.
Um, you know, giving each otherthe freedom to rest without
(26:42):
interruption can be an amazinggift of service and an amazing
gift of love for your spouse,particularly if you have a
newborn or something else likethat when the hours of sleep are
few and far between yes, yes,cherishing your spouse by giving
them a chance to actually getrest.
That might be completelysacrificial on your part.
(27:03):
On the other hand, sleepingtogether, even if it means less
than stellar sleep, can be animportant sacrifice of showing
love to each other.
So the same decision can bemade out of sacrifice, or it can
be made out of selfishness, andthat's where the that's where
the rubber hits the road, asthey say.
(27:23):
That's that's where it getschallenging to discern what are
my motivations.
Uh, in this, I would say,though, that every step that we
take away from our spouses andand I mean that both emotionally
, physically, whatever way everystep we take away from our
spouses has inevitable negative,long-term consequences for the
(27:48):
relationship.
So, if you are choosing tosleep apart, even if you're
making that decision for goodreasons, those decisions to
sleep apart need to.
If you're making that decisionfor good reasons, those
decisions to sleep apart need tobe weighed very carefully and
to be constantly reevaluated.
Is this serving my marriage, isthis serving my spouse, or has
(28:08):
this become a selfish motivation?
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Right, Because sometimes our initial motivation
can shift right.
We might be starting out with apure what feels like a pure
motivation of we got a brand newbaby, I'm only going to get two
and a half hours of sleep, soI'm going to put myself in a
place where it's completelyquiet so I can just cling to
(28:33):
those two and a half hours.
But over time, maybe if there'semotional relational conflict
in the marriage but you knowwhat, being in my own sleeping
space, well, that's just easier.
I don't have to confront thoseissues.
So sometimes that initialmotivation can shift towards
self-serving motivation andmaybe we haven't even realized
(28:56):
that we've crossed that line.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
What starts out as something that's convenient can
become an opportunity, then, forself-serving self-serving sin
even, and might then be thefoundation for building
emotional, spiritual and sexualbarriers in your marriage.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
That initial convenience, that initial act of
service can sometimes be thefoundation for building a wall
between the two of you, and Ithink that's important to
acknowledge and recognize.
So I would also add I mean,we've been talking mostly in the
context of sleeping in separatebedrooms, bedrooms but I would
(29:39):
say that these principles alsoought to apply, and also ought
to be considered with respect toseparate bedtimes as well.
Now, it's not necessarily thesame degree of separation as
separate beds.
Um, when you're not sharing abedtime, though, you are opening
a door to create some barriers.
If you are not going to bed atthe same time, again, sometimes
just like perhaps buying abigger mattress it can become a
(30:03):
de facto means of sleeping apart.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah, I mean.
Many of us who would scoff atthe idea of separate bedrooms
right, might actually realizethat they are in fact
participating in sleep divorce.
Sure, because they're rarelyactually in bed together awake.
Right, exactly you know, if oneof you falls asleep very
quickly and very deeply, you'renot even awake when your spouse
comes to bed, you know.
(30:31):
Does it even matter if you'rein the same room?
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Sure right, right.
You are missing out If youdon't share a bedtime, if you
don't share this bedtime routine, you're missing out on so many
built in opportunities forconnection, uh, opportunities
for connection for um intimacy.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Well, and I think why that is like what is special
about bedtime?
Well, when I think about it, Ithink what we recognize is that
bedtime is naturally.
It's disarming.
It is vulnerable.
There is something veryvulnerable to going to bed
together and even those momentsof preparing to go to bed, of
(31:10):
getting in bed with one another,that's meant to be a vulnerable
time and those can creategolden moments of conversation,
of just simple cuddling, ofintimacy on many different
levels.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Oh, absolutely.
And if you have kids, yourecognize this.
You take advantage of thoseopportunities.
That's when things arerelatively quiet, that's when
you have focused attention ofeach other.
It's an opportunity for some ofthose conversations that you
just can't happen during thebusyness of the day.
It's a golden moment.
It's a golden opportunity, andif you don't have the same
(31:47):
bedtime you're missing thatopportunity.
It doesn't mean you can't makethat up in other ways, but it is
an opportunity.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
It is something you have to recognize.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
And so separate bedtimes promote emotional and
physical drifting away from oneanother.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
I mean, that is the reality of separate bedtimes,
and so that really allows formore opportunity for selfishness
and betrayal.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Yeah, just lots of spouses, for example, lots of
spouses who have been in bondageto pornography, will tell you
that their sin gripped tightestwhile their partner was in bed
without them.
Just ask around.
If you don't believe me, askthose that have suffered through
that.
It just creates opportunitiesfor selfishness and for drifting
(32:36):
apart.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
And you might be saying but that's not our story,
we're not saying that'severybody's story, but this is a
place to be aware what are thethings that can happen when we
choose separate bedrooms orseparate bedtimes.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
If it's what you've chosen or if it's something
you're considering, these arethings you have to factor into
that conversation.
Chosen or if it's somethingyou're considering, these are
things you have to factor intothat conversation.
I would say, despite thisrecent modern resurgence in the
practice of sleep divorce asit's been called, the actual
scientific research is fairlyone-sided about the benefits of
(33:12):
co-sleeping with your spouse.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Here you are pulling out a science, a scientific
research.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Let me just warn you.
I read no less than 20scientific articles about this
and if you're really interested,I'll even include those in the
show notes if you're interestedin doing the research yourself.
But let's and I'll use some airquotes follow the science on
this topic.
One study demonstrated thatsleeping with your spouse
(33:45):
promotes health by lowering thestress hormone, cortisol, and
reducing the cytokines that arelinked to inflammation.
It's just better for yourhealth to have someone sleeping
beside you, contrary to thedoctor that we quoted from the
1920s, sleeping together is alsothought to boost oxytocin
levels, which are known to loweranxiety levels and to promote
(34:05):
connectedness in yourrelationship.
In at least five other studieson this topic of co-sleeping,
all of them confirmed thatsleeping with a spouse improves
your sleep quality, especiallyin women.
For some reason, I don't know,couples with different bedtimes
(34:26):
and again, that's not differentbeds, that's couples with
different bedtimes have less sexand more conflict.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
And that's just what the science says.
That's what it says.
That's not Matt and Jen.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Is that surprising?
I don't think.
If any of us really sat downand thought about it, that
probably is not surprising, butit's not always what you hear
and it's not always what we do.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Right, right, I mean.
I think it's no surprise thatresearch validates that when you
aren't sleeping well, you andyour relationship will also
suffer too.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Sure, there's another side to this.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
It goes both ways.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Definitely another side of this.
Spouses of snorers morefrequently report sleeping
problems, insomnia, daytimefatigue and sleepiness.
So therefore, wives of patientswho are suffering from
obstructive sleep apnea perceivetheir marriages as more
stressful.
If you're not sleeping,especially if it's because of
(35:19):
your spouse, your marriage isgoing to be more stressful.
More conflict was reported inromantic relationships following
poor nights of sleep.
If one or both of you does notsleep well, you are likely going
to have more conflict thefollowing day likely going to
have more conflict the followingday.
Spouses of patients beingtreated for obstructive sleep
(35:40):
apnea were significantly moredepressed and socially isolated.
It has a negative impact onyour personal well-being if your
spouse is keeping you up atnight.
It is also perhaps reasonableknowing all of this.
Again, this is probably commonsense, but, again, the research
(36:01):
also bears this out.
It is definitely reasonablethat a couple should prioritize
a good night's sleep.
How, then, do we balance theneed for sleep with the clear
benefits of shared bedtimes andsleeping together?
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Particularly if you have these issues between you or
among you in your marriage andin your marriage bed.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Right?
So where we land this podcastis what do Matt and Jen think,
right?
That's why people asked us thequestion, and we are not going
to claim, like we never claim tohave all the answers for your
marriage or even for themarriages of those that posed
these questions to us in thefirst place, but I think we have
some thoughts about what everycouple should be trying to
(36:47):
prioritize.
What that looks like in yourmarriage is between you and your
beloved?
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yes, but since our opinion was asked, We'll oblige,
I'm not afraid, to give myopinion and at least some
principles that have to beconsidered and thought about.
And I will give you my urging,or my admonition for what I
think that should look like inyour marriage, to the best of
your ability.
One is go to bed at the sametime.
(37:13):
Whatever that looks like,whatever that takes, go to bed
at the same time.
You don't both have to go tosleep at the same time.
Whatever that looks like,whatever that takes, go to bed
at the same time.
You don't both have to go tosleep at the same time, right,
but you should both do whateverit takes to unite your bedtime
routine, your nighttime routine,so that you are spending some
(37:34):
quality time, even if it's justa few minutes.
Yes, routine so that you arespending some quality time, even
if it's just a few minutes.
That few minutes of connectionat the end of the day will make
a big difference in continuingto build relationship.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
We know this because this was our story right.
This changed everything in ourmarriage, because you are a
night owl and most people knowabout me that I think 9 pm
should be everybody's bedtime.
Nothing should be happeningpast 9 pm.
I'm a morning person, though,and you're not, and so we had to
(38:05):
make a very strong effort.
We recognized the detriment inour marriage that was happening
because, especially when we hadlittle kids, I was exhausted
Absolutely and I went to bed andyou did not, and that
negatively affected us.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Oh, it negatively affected our emotional
connection, our sexualconnection.
It negatively impacted ourentire marriage.
So we made some sacrifices.
One of us worked really hard tostay up a little bit later.
By taking a nap during the day,whatever it takes, and one of us
works really hard to get up alittle bit later, and by taking
a nap during the day it takes,and one of us works really hard
(38:41):
to get up a little bit earlierthan I normally would, and so we
can blend our bedtimes.
I don't fall asleep when jendoes, no I?
Speaker 2 (38:47):
I hit the pillow and I'm out cold, right I?
What do I do I?
I pick up my book and I mayberead one paragraph and then my
head's flopping and I'm out, andthen I take her book out of her
lap and I turn her light off.
Yeah, you know what it lookslike in that in Jen's bed.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
No, you don't.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
No, you don't, but yes.
So again our opinion, and thisis coming from what we have
lived go to bed at the same time.
It just creates moreopportunity for connection.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
As much as it is within your power to sleep.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
At the same time, it just creates more opportunity
for connection absolutely asmuch as it is in within your
power.
Sleep at the same time probablydoesn't necessarily need to be
stated, but maybe we'll go aheadand state it.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
If you're going to go to bed at the same time, go to
bed at the same time in the samebed yes, whatever it is,
whatever it takes, go to bed inthe same bed, as much as that is
possible, understanding thatthere are are sometimes some
things that get in the way ofthat.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
But that principle should be your norm.
That should be your norm.
What you're striving for, thatshould be your goal.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yes, agreed, agreed.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
And to that point, that means you probably need to
get kids and or otherdistractors out of your bedroom.
Yeah, um, you, you've got to dothe work, whatever that looks
like, to get things in order sothat you have the opportunity to
go to bed at the same time andin the same bed.
Right, and I will just say if,if there is a time in which you
(40:12):
must sleep apart, yeah, and I'mnot we're're not condemning that
.
Okay, let's be clear about that.
We're not condemning sleepingapart.
There is some, perhaps sometimes where that might be
appropriate.
I would say, if you're going tosleep apart, though, number one
, you need to very clearly andintentionally state and define
your purpose for separatesleeping arrangements and, in so
(40:34):
doing, set a timetable then toreassess your situation.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Right, don't just stumble into this and realize,
you know what?
We're not sleeping togetheranymore, or we're going to bed
at such different times that weare, in essence, not sleeping
together.
So this should be a veryintentional decision and within
that intentionality, you shouldhave the conversation about when
(41:00):
are we reassessing this?
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
And we have a timetable in which we are
working again to make our norm,our goal, what we're striving
for, that oneness of beingtogether.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
You might get six or eight, six or months or six
weeks down the road and decideyou know what?
We're in the same situation.
We haven't been able to resolvethese issues that are forcing
us to sleep apart, and we mightneed to make the same decision
again.
But make it a decision.
It should not be.
It should not be your default.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Right.
And so within that conversationshould be an assessing of what
are our reasons for sleepingapart, and are those reasons
selfish or are they serving?
And ask yourself the questionis our marriage better or worse
because of this decision?
Speaker 1 (41:44):
and maybe it's both, and so you're going to need to
weigh.
How important is it that wecontinue sleeping separately?
How important is it that we tryto get things back together?
Are we more or less connectedbecause of this decision to
sleep separately?
Speaker 2 (42:00):
And if you must sleep apart, then I think another
important aspect is that you'vegot to be even more creative
with your well-rested mind.
You're right, your body shouldbe well-rested mentally and
physically to make anopportunity for emotional and
sexual connection.
So you've got to recognize thatyou are taking away a natural
(42:23):
place where emotional and sexualconnections can happen, and so
you have to be intentional aboutputting that in in another way.
So if you're sleepingseparately, you have to work
harder to connect, yes, and beintentional about it.
And you've got to put in thatnew separately.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
You have to work harder to connect, yes, and be
intentional about it.
And you've got to put in thatnew energy that you have.
You've got to put some of thatenergy to work in your
relationship because you'vecreated a barrier right.
You've created this physicalbarrier between you that often
turns into an emotional barrier.
You're putting that between you.
You've got to work harder toget past that and so use that
energy and make the time to makethose connections.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
I would say this is where scheduling sex would be
very important for a couple likethis.
You need to know when are wehaving sex regularly, and that's
maybe every Sunday night.
You sit down and have theconversation.
What does this week look like?
What are the nights that we aregoing to be purposeful about
connecting?
Or the mornings, maybe it's weget up together.
We might not be in the sameroom for whatever reason, but
(43:23):
we're going to get up together.
Or your work schedule and mywork schedule are so off.
Where are the hours where we doconnect?
Speaker 1 (43:30):
And it might be fun to ask your spouse your place or
mine One way to spin it.
It could add some spice to yourrelationship, but I guess I
can't deny that.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
But I think you need to be very sensitive to
emotional or sexual drift inyour relationship.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Yes, for sure.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
If you must sleep apart.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
So, as much as it is within your power, eliminate
whatever the barriers are tosleeping together so that you
can get to bed in bed with eachother as often as possible.
That might mean you've got toretrain your kids to sleep on
their own in their own bedrooms,and that is going to be, in
some cases, just terrible forweeks, right, it's no one's
(44:12):
going to sleep for weeks.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
It might be a process , depending on how old your kids
are, depending on what theirsleep issues are.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
And what you've trained them to do.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
What you've trained them and, frankly, you might
need to pull in someprofessionals.
There are a lot of peoplespecially trained in helping
children sleep better.
So don't just suffer and haveyour children suffer.
Maybe you need some additionalhelp.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Don't accept that this is the way that it has to
be.
You don't accept that this isthe way that it has to be.
You don't want to your kids tobe 20 years old and still
sleeping in your bedroom.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Oh, you definitely don't, but maybe it's.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Maybe it's not kids, maybe it's health problems that
are keeping you apart, and so bewilling to address those health
yeah, whether it's sleep apneaor snoring or restless leg
syndrome or anxiety or whateverother issues that it might be,
you need to address those things.
Look, I'm just going to befrank with you.
If your spouse can't sleepbecause of your snoring, you are
(45:09):
a selfish jerk, and I don'tmean that lightly.
You're a jerk if you have notdone everything possible to try
to correct that problem.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
And there's a lot out there that can correct snoring
problems.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Depriving your spouse of sleep is simply cruel.
That's kind of harsh.
It's cruel.
Why would you do that tosomeone that you say that you
love?
Yeah, it's just cruel.
And look, there are so manyoptions.
Most sleep and snoring problemscan be resolved with relatively
(45:42):
simple interventions, and youshould be doing something about
that Now.
I will add sleeping apartdoesn't necessarily help you
sleep better, even if yourspouse is a snorer.
Again, one more research study.
Well, okay, maybe not one more,but in terms of sleep quality
and the negative relationalimpacts, at least in one study
(46:04):
there were no differences foundbetween the spouses of snorers
who slept in the same room andthose who slept in separate
rooms.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Those spouses that slept separately.
Their relationships were notbetter and they did not sleep
better.
Interesting result yeah, butagain, most sleep and snoring
problems can be corrected, and Iwould add to that in it.
Okay, here's another studyCouples who were sleeping
(46:34):
separately due to sleep apneaamong all those couples, couples
who were sleeping separatelydue to sleep apnea among all
those couples.
72 percent of these couplesstarted to be able to sleep
together again after treatment.
Three-fourths of those couples,if they got treatment, they
were able to sleep togetheragain and among those, almost 70
percent of them said that theirpersonal lives had improved and
(46:56):
their spouses said.
Three-quarters of them saidthat they recognized the benefit
of therapy for themselves andfor their spouse and for their
relationship.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Well, I mean the person suffering from sleep
apnea.
You're not getting the rest.
You need.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
You're not sleeping either, right, so you're keeping
both of you awake.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Yes, neither of you are sleeping well, so it makes
sense that those that got helptheir personal lives improved
because everybody is sleepingbetter.
Absolutely and sleep is animportant thing.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Absolutely.
Another problem we talked aboutwas work, and look, I
understand people got to make aliving.
Sometimes your best choice isto make a living working
terrible hours, and I recognizethat that is a sacrifice and I
applaud you for making thesacrifice to do what it takes to
provide for your family.
That's important.
(47:44):
I would not negate that.
However, if you were in a jobinterview and your prospective
boss said we think you're agreat fit for our company and we
want to pay you well, but thisjob is definitely going to be
bad for your marriage and foryour family, would you take that
job?
Some of you already have.
(48:04):
Just to put it frankly, some ofyou have taken that job knowing
that it's a bad choice for yourmarriage and a bad choice for
your family, and we're blessedin this country that we don't
have to keep the jobs that wehave in most cases.
So sometimes you just got tomake a different decision.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Maybe it's time to reevaluate the cost of your
choice.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
Every choice has a cost.
Sometimes getting a goodnight's sleep means that you are
making a sacrifice to thequality of the connection in
your marriage.
So, again, we all have to weighthese choices and not saying
it's an easy choice, not sayingthat this is an easy solution,
not saying that you have tosleep in the same bed or that
you have to have the samebedtime.
We just think there's somewisdom in thinking about why are
(48:54):
you doing what you're doing?
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Right, all right, this has been a long one.
Hopefully we didn't put anybodyto sleep.
See what I did there.
Wow, Good one honey, All rightNat Give us our wrap up.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Every step we take away from our spouses,
especially physically, hasinevitable negative long-term
consequences for therelationship.
Negative long-term consequencesfor the relationship, and these
decisions to sleep apart shouldbe weighed carefully and be
constantly re-evaluated.
As much as is within your power, eliminate the barriers to
(49:28):
sleeping together so that youcan get you can get in bed with
each other as often as possible,and likewise, separate bedtimes
also promote emotional andphysical drift away from each
other and they allow foropportunity for selfishness and
betrayal.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
So now it's time to grab your spouse and your Bible
and head to your kitchen tableto have the conversation about
your bedtime routines, Whetheryou are sleeping in the same bed
at the same time or not.
Does your current bedtimeroutine promote connection or
not?
Speaker 1 (50:04):
We would love to hear your feedback.
Contact us by emailing podcastat intimatecovenantcom or you
can submit anonymous feedbackquestions by going to our
website, intimatecovenantcomslash podcast.
You can click the buttonContact the Podcast for an
anonymous submission form.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Thanks to all of you for listening, subscribing,
rating and sharing the podcast.
We're truly humbled by all yourencouragement and support.
Thanks especially to ourPatreon subscribers for coming
alongside us in a very real way.
If Intimate Covenant hasblessed your marriage, we'd love
to have you join us.
Subscribe at patreoncom.
(50:40):
Slash intimate covenant.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
Until next time, keep striving and don't settle.
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