June 17, 2024 • 38 mins
In this episode, Matt & Jenn respond to a listener's email from a wife who is feeling rejected because her husband, the usual sexual pursuer, has stopped initiating. We'll explore some of the reasons this might be happening and what she can do about it. Plus, we give some personal updates and exciting announcements about the future of Intimate Covenant.
- Sexual pursuers may stop for many reasons and it’s often more complicated that just hormones.
- A change in this dynamic in your relationship should never be ignored and requires an important conversation.
- The pursuer in this dynamic must be willing to respond with enthusiasm and continue to reach out to make connections wherever possible.
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Cherishing,
Matt & Jenn
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Intimate Covenant | Matt & Jenn Schmidt
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, Jen want to talk about sexual pursuers who stop
pursuing.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
So you're saying there's a chance.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Great.
Today we're going to discussthe complexities of when a
sexual pursuer in therelationship stops pursuing.
Let's do it.
Welcome friends.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome.
We're Matt and Jen, and this isthe Intimate Covenant Podcast
where we believe the Bible andgreat married sex.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Both belong on your kitchen table.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
That's right.
We're talking about godlymarriage with hot sex and
emotionally fulfilling oneness.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
We are so glad you're with us.
Thanks for joining us.
If you would like to know moreabout Intimate Covenant, you can
find us at our website,IntimateCovenantcom, and
certainly we would love to haveyour feedback about the podcast
or your questions about anything.
Contact us at podcast atIntimateCovenantcom.
That's right so speaking of ourinbox, yeah, Recently we got a
(00:58):
question from a wife who saidthat my spouse desires sex more
but has stopped initiating andwaits for me to do so, which
makes me feel pressure, and whenI do initiate he often rejects
Help Question mark.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
We get it.
This is a profoundly commonsituation in marriage, where the
sexual pursuer stops pursuing,sometimes to the point of like
flipping the dynamics, such thatthe spouse, who has been used
to being primarily the sexualresponder, now becomes that
(01:42):
sexual pursuer or, worse, yetnobody is pursuing and therefore
sex is not happening.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yes, exactly, and the easy answer in these situations
is to assume that, well, thesexual pursuer in this
relationship has just lost hislibido, that is, like his
natural sex drive is justnaturally declining with age.
And while age-related, likedeclining testosterone or other
(02:12):
age-related or naturalcircumstances are sometimes an
explanation as to why somepursuers stop pursuing, the
actual cause for this situationin most relationships is far
more complex and far morenuanced, and it requires much
more complex solutions than justhormonal supplementation, as it
(02:36):
were.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
That's right.
So that's what we're going todive into today on the podcast.
But before we get into thosedetails and nuances, we have a
few announcements we just needto share with you guys.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, so our regular listeners have probably noticed,
maybe have noticed, hopefullyhave noticed that our recent
episodes have just not beendropping with the same kind of
rigid regularity that you mightbe accustomed to.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yes, because Matthew was all about the rigid
regularity when it came to thepodcast, and so we apologize if
we've ruined a morning commuteor two, because you were looking
forward to hearing us everyother Monday.
It's not you, it's not yourphone, it's not your app, it's
not your Internet connection.
(03:24):
Right, it's not your phone,it's not your app, it's not your
internet connection.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Right, it's us.
We simply have just not had thecapacity to get caught up with
everything that is required inwriting and recording these
episodes.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, you guys may think that this looks, you know
and sounds very nice and easy,but there's a lot of work that
goes into this, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
In general.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
We love that, but it requires time.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
It does require quite an investment in time, both
before and after we record.
So for the foreseeable future,we're going to be cutting back
these episodes to just oneepisode per month.
If you've been with us from thevery bitter beginning, you
remember that we used to dothese episodes once a week.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
We did because when we started this, I thought well,
we'll run out of things to talkabout within three months, so
that's fine.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
but we didn't.
So with some other changes inour lives, we cut back to every
other week, and we've been doingit that way for about the past
year or so.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Right, but we are at a point where, for right now, we
do need to cut back, consuminga lot of energy and time
specifically helping walkalongside our dear, dear friends
while they're dealing withcancer treatments for their very
young child, and that requiresa lot of emotional investment
and time.
We're also adjusting to someother big changes in our lives,
(05:01):
including a big change for mattin his role at his work and just
some other things that are partof our private life.
We do have a private life, um,that we're just not going to
share with the whole world, um.
One of the one of the changes,though, that we can share with
the whole, that jen is veryexcited to share.
I'm like sharing it with anybodyand everybody, including the
(05:23):
people in the grocery store.
We are thrilled to announcethat, as of last week, we are
grandparents.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Pretty exciting, pretty exciting.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
We are now doc and Grammy and we couldn't be
prouder.
We are ecstatic.
I have the cutest grandson evermade in the history of the
world there is no question.
Without a doubt.
Dare you to challenge that?
We have the pictures to proveit.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
But that has obviously changed our priorities
and some of our attention andyou know, quite truthfully, we
are constantly torn between ourpassion to try to provide a
space for these essentialconversations about God's plan
for marriage, and we still havethat same level of passion, but
we also are torn between thatpassion and also that critical
(06:16):
need to attend to our ownpersonal lives and our own
personal responsibilities.
Right, I mean.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I have said for a long time that intimate covenant
has to come from our leftovers.
It is not the definition of whowe are.
Let's make sure that that'sclear.
We're not going away.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
We're just simply, in a lot of ways, simply changing
where and how we are investingthe time that we have to commit
to Intimate Covenant Right.
(06:53):
So we're shifting a little bitaway from the podcast, as it
were, but we hope we intend toand we will shift that focus
toward some other importantthings.
For example, one of thosethings is singles.
We've obviously invested a lotof time and our primary focus
(07:15):
has been, and probably alwayswill be, in investing in married
couples.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Um, but uh, we also have recently, more recently
started to answer this call fromunmarried folks who have asked
for some guidance in how tobeating down the door, asking
for a lot of ways.
Yes For guidance, we hear you.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
We hear you.
So, um, we are.
We want to help with some ofthat guidance in dealing with
their sexuality, especiallywhile unmarried, and some
guidance in finding a suitablemate.
And that is also very excitingto us because we know, and we
have come to know for sure, thatmarriages don't happen well if
(08:00):
people are unprepared, and so ifwe can invest in those who are
unmarried, we hope that we canhelp make this, make our jobs
easier, maybe in the future,maybe that's part of a selfish
motivation, so along those lines.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
We are having a single event Kingdom Singles
here in the Houston area, in ourown backyard, taking care of
our local singles.
That event will happen onSaturday local singles that
event will happen on Saturday,july 20th, at a super cool venue
.
It's called Hebrews Coffeehouse.
It's in the Woodlands, texas.
(08:33):
So that's from 3 to 7 pm and itis a free event for our area
singles.
Thanks to some great folks whohave already come alongside and
offered up some donations and ifyou would like to join us in
helping to support this event,your donations are welcome.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, there's still room for some donations.
Otherwise, we're going to coverthe costs, whatever that ends
up being.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
But we feel passionate about this and think
that this is a good event tooffer for free to singles, and
so it will get covered one wayor the other, but we would love
for you to come alongside us.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
We would love to have your help with that.
You can let your single friendsknow your unmarried friends
that the event is free.
It includes specialty coffee,oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
You can't go to a coffee house and not get an
amazing coffee made by a Hebrewstaff.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
So yeah, we'll have some other refreshments as well.
We're going to cover sometopics like how to find
spiritual purpose while you areunmarried, also how to handle
sexual desire while you'reunmarried, and also then how to
be purposeful in your dating, sothat your dating and how you go
about that process matches whatyour true intentions are and
(09:48):
your spiritual purpose.
So we'll include some time foran anonymous Q&A.
There's also going to be plentyof time for socialization.
It's for socializingSocialization, not socialization
.
Hopefully that's been takencare of already.
Socializing and some fun.
And some fun, yes.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
So registration is now open.
Go to IntimateCovenantcombackslash H-O-U singles and
again, that event is free and wewould love for you are probably
our married friends that aremost listening to this podcast
but tell your single friendsright and let them know that
(10:28):
this is happening and that wewould love to see that and if
you would like again to be, ifyou're willing and able to help
donate to sponsor this event,contact us at podcast, at
intimate covenantcom.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yep, this material that we're going to be covering
in uh this event is going tosoon be available as an e-course
for young adults.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
so if you don't live in the houston area and you
still want to be exposed to thematerial, we're going to make
that available to uh everyone,hopefully here shortly and
eventually we would even like topresent this material in an
e-course format that teens andparents can watch together,
watch separately, be able to useit as a resource for young
(11:14):
singles.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
So this is something you've been working on.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah, this has been something on the back burner for
a long time, but again, we havelimited amount of time and the
podcast tends to eat up a lot ofthat time, so we're just
shifting a little bit.
We're not going anywhere.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, but we're shifting and, speaking of
e-courses, we we have a newe-course that has just launched
today, literally like yes, as ofin the last week just launched.
And this e-course it'ssomething that we also have been
working on for a while, butit's also launching in
coinciding with the launch ofthe annual Dating Divas Marriage
(11:52):
Bundle.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yes, this is our third year being asked to be
participants with the MarriageBundle put on by the Dating Diva
, and we have created a brandnew e-course for this bundle and
that goes live today as of thedropping of this podcast, and it
is an incredible deal, onlyavailable for a limited time.
(12:16):
If you've been around the blockwith us, you've heard us talk
about Dating Diva's marriagebundles.
They are phenomenal.
So this year there are going tobe 19 contributors Altogether.
All of the resources that arebeing offered in the Marriage
Bundle is a greater than $400value that Dating Divas is
(12:37):
making available for only $50.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
That's a pretty big discount, but wait, there's more
.
Good job.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
If you use our unique link, you will get a $15 off
this regular price of $50.
And if you need to help doingthe math, that brings it all the
way down to $35.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
$35 for a $400 value bundle.
That is less than $2 perresource that is in this bundle.
So it is a great deal and ifyou use our unique link, which
will be available in the shownotes, we'll have it on our
social media.
We'll have it in emails thatare going out.
(13:21):
So look for that, Use ourunique link and we'll make a
little bit on that sale.
You are supporting IntimateCovenant when you buy through
our link and we appreciate thatfor you.
You'll get $15 off of the priceand you'll also get a freebie
when you access our course.
We're going to throw in alittle bit of extra for you.
(13:42):
We're going to leave that as asurprise.
You can find out what that is.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
That's a freebie, all right.
So our e-course we have titledthis year's e-course Make Better
Connections Understand whatyour Spouse Needs and why you
Sometimes Miss.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
So we've taken this chance in this e-course to kind
of elaborate a little bit moreon the pursuer-responder dynamic
.
Not coincidentally, we'retalking about that
pursuer-responder dynamic in ourepisode today, and so we're
going to elaborate on thatdynamic and really kind of get
into why do each other'stendencies and each other's
(14:19):
needs work often cause us todevolve into conflict.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And so we're going to provide some suggestions in how
you can take those moments ofconflict and turn them into
opportunities and moments forconnection and growth.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
That's right, and this e-course comes with a
worksheet with questions to helpyou and your spouse better
communicate about these topicsand then carry on with
meaningful conversations.
It's not just listening to us.
We are hoping to provide waysthrough the worksheet and the
conversation, suggestions ofways that you guys can apply
(14:55):
this within your marriage.
So we think it's a phenomenalresource and so we would love
for you to get to be a part ofit, and so we would love for you
to get to be a part of it.
More information about thiscourse and others can be found
at IntimateCovenantcom slashcourses.
But if you want just oure-course, without the entire
marriage bundle, you cancertainly go there and purchase
(15:18):
it on our website.
But don't miss out on theDating Divas Marriage Bundle,
because it's a great deal.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
It's a pretty good deal, but there's a lot of great
stuff.
If you just want our stuff, wewon't be sad about that either,
and we have a few more of thesecourses in the works, so stay
tuned.
Some of them are half written,some of them are partly written,
partly prepared and so we'regetting those done and getting
those recordings done andeverything.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Sorry for the long introduction and the long
announcements, but we felt likewe really just needed to take a
few minutes of your time toupdate you, to share these
announcements with you.
Again, with all of these otherthings going on and other
opportunities for our time andenergy, we're going to back off
of the podcast to just themonthly episodes and we're
(16:03):
thankful for your understanding.
Just the monthly episodes andwe we're thankful for your
understanding.
We thankful for you continuingto listen, even if you're only
going to get a monthly dose ofMatt and Jen.
But just know that we are goingto be using that time number
one in our personal life butalso to create other resources
that we've really been wantingto work on for quite a long time
.
So we appreciate you allsticking around and being
(16:27):
supporters of Intimate Covenant.
We really appreciate all ofyour encouragement, your support
and your feedback.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yes, love you and appreciate you.
So now, like 17 minutes intothis, that's all right, we got
it.
We opened this episode with anemail from a wife whose husband
had been the sexual pursuer inthe relationship, but lately he
has stopped initiating sex, andso now she is feeling rejected
(16:56):
by her attempts to try torestore their sexual
relationship.
So what might be happening here?
And I think that's a that's aninteresting situation?
I I really don't think this isa unique situation.
This is something that probablyhappens in most relationships
from time to time.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Specifically this shift where a pursuer starts
pursuing less Right.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Right.
So what are the reasons that asexual pursuer might stop
pursuing or start pursuing less?
Well, stress is a huge reason.
Sure, just having a lot on yourplate can block your ability to
really desire.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, we mentioned that.
You know that libido, or liketestosterone, is always given
the blame in these situations,but that's not always
necessarily the case.
Certainly, stress is a hugelibido killer.
It's a huge impactor in justhow much natural desire you
might feel.
Health problems also hugereason why someone may stop
(17:59):
pursuing or slow down in thatpursuit.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Right.
Low testosterone, chronic pain,chronic illness or other
diseases of aging all of thatcan contribute.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Absolutely.
How about shame?
I mean shame, especially shamesurrounding your sexuality, is a
tremendously common reason whysomeone may stop pursuing and
that is going to manifest fordifferent reasons at different
times in your relationship andin your just lifetime, and so
(18:33):
that's certainly something.
But what we mean by that isthese are the internal moral
conflicts that someone may haveabout their sexual desire and
about sex itself.
So if I'm feeling thatoverwhelming shame about my
sexuality, then obviously that'sgoing to impact how much I want
(18:54):
to pursue and how I wouldpursue.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Right.
But along with that shame youcan also have shame based in how
your body is or is notresponding to sexual stimuli and
so any kind of sexualdysfunction, whether that's ED
or PE, like both, that can causea big reason to you know kind
of just decide that it's not, Ican't pursue, it's not worth
(19:20):
that effort, I don't want to.
I don't want to feel the senseof rejection.
I don't want to risk this.
I don't want to feel the senseof rejection.
I don't want to risk this.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
I don't want to risk failing in this way.
I think that's another bigreason.
So, yeah, that shame may comefrom a moral conflict, but it
also may come from just an innerconflict about my ability to
perform.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, and conflict as a whole is a reason that a
sexual pursuer may stop pursuing?
I mean, is a reason that asexual pursuer may stop pursuing
?
I mean any kind of discord inyour relationship, even if it's
non-sexual.
Conflict just makes it moredifficult to bridge that gap and
make those connections.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah, so the conflict may be coming from within, and
it also may be coming from myrelationship with someone else,
with my spouse, and so it justmakes it more difficult to make
those connections, to want toreach out if there is.
This other tension, even ifit's not a sexual disagreement
or conflict, makes it tougher tobridge that gap.
(20:15):
Another common reason that asexual pursuer may stop pursuing
is because of betrayal.
That is, a pursuer who maybe isguilty of betrayal, and again,
whether that is a full onemotional or sexual affair or
whether that is betrayal in theform of pornography or other
(20:37):
other forms of infidelity, thatthose are reasons why a pursuer
may stop pursuing his spouse,perhaps because his energy is
being wasted and spent somewhereelse.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
And I think rejection is another huge reason that
pursuers stop pursuing Apursuer's.
You know, their number one fearis rejection, right, and so if
they have been met with constantrejection, frankly they may
just get to a point where it'snot worth it, and so there may
be bitterness, there may bedejection from past rejections
(21:14):
that are blocking them from evenrisking a possible rejection
relationship that sometimes onerejection is all that it takes
to really shut that down,because that just may be
different than the norm.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
If a pursuer is used to constant connection in that
way and has never been rejected,sometimes that first rejection
can be fairly impactful.
So something to be aware ofthere.
And then I would say anotherreason why a pursuer may stop
pursuing is they're just gettingpoor quality sex, and I don't
(21:51):
mean like he's not.
The pursuer is not getting theswinging from the chandeliers
kind of sex, although maybethat's why If, if, if someone's
not getting what they're askingfor, they may just Whether what
they're asking for is healthy orunhealthy.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Right yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
But especially if the sexual connection is poor
there's not anything beyond justthen the spouse presenting
their body Then you know, is itworth pursuing?
At that point, you know why askfor something when you know
you're going to get somethingthat is poor quality, that that
may be a reason why.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
So there's probably plenty other reasons, but that's
just.
You know that we went throughall of that to just kind of help
put into all of our minds like,oh wow, there's a lot of
reasons, yes Right, why apursuer might stop pursuing, and
not all of them are justbecause he doesn't want to have
sex anymore.
You know where she she nolonger is thinking about sex.
(22:50):
I mean, it's a very complex andthey're not all physiologic.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I guess that's the other point.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
So the question then is obviously what do we do about
that?
What do you do?
I mean, that's the point ofthis email my pursuers no longer
wanting to pursue.
So what do I do about it?
Well, like the emailer, I mean,obviously she's paying
attention to this, and thatwould be.
The first step is that we wouldsay that when your pursuer
(23:18):
stops pursuing, you need tonotice it.
To notice it, yes.
When that pursuer backs off,you must be willing to examine.
Is there something unhealthy inour relationship?
Don't just be like, oh okay, nolonger pursuing, We'll just let
that one ride.
Yeah, Be willing to dig intowhat's going on here.
(23:39):
What dynamic is that?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yeah, and maybe one of the reasons that there may be
lots of reasons.
Maybe there's too much pressureby the pursuer and so they're
pursuing in a poor way.
Maybe there's too muchrejection by the responder,
maybe there's too muchwithdrawal or right.
All of that's possible, right,be willing to explore all of the
possibilities.
I think that's what we'resaying is there, and sometimes
(24:02):
it's not just one reason.
We just gave a big, long list,but I don't think it's hard to
imagine that in most of ourlives it's complicated and there
may be a number of differentfactors.
Sometimes you might be livingwith a lot of stress, but it
doesn't really affect your sexlife until you add a health
problem on top of it orsomething else on top of it.
(24:24):
So there's a lot of reasons whythat can be better or worse at
different times.
So look at all of thesepossibilities and I think, like
we've really talked about in alot of other ways in a lot of
other contexts, you have to bewilling to approach this problem
from an us mentality, like whatare we?
What can we do about it, ratherthan casting the blame on you.
(24:44):
Right, right, do approach thiswithout making accusations,
without blaming.
It's certainly okay to point itout and to complain like, hey,
we're not having as much sex aswe used to, or we're not having
a healthy amount of sex.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
That's providing connection and by complaining we
don't mean like beingdisrespectful to your spouse,
but rather bringing that up,bringing it to the table that
you know something is not rightand I don't want to just settle
in the something's not workingright and so most of the time
(25:21):
the problem is two sided and allof the time the problem
requires both of you to beinvested in that solution.
For example, your spouse'shealth problems are not your
fault.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Maybe not even their fault either.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Right, but you as a spouse play a huge role in
helping your spouse overcometheir challenges through that
support and encouragement,accountability, motivation,
changing patterns in oldrelationship behaviors.
I mean, we just went to awedding yesterday, right.
What is the most common thingin a vow, in sickness and in
(25:57):
health, right?
So when we're dealing with oneof our health, it is a we
problem and it requires both ofus to be a part of that.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Absolutely yeah, every problem is a we problem.
So, whatever the cause is,you've got to be willing to
acknowledge it and you've got tobe willing to confront it.
And that means confronting itin yourself, certainly taking
responsibility for what is mine,and I've got to be willing to
confront it in my spouse, thatis, be willing to bring it to
(26:30):
their attention, not just ignoreit, not just hope that time is
going to take care of it.
Got to be willing to have aconversation about those things
that are not right in ourrelationship.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Time does not heal things.
It just causes you both tobecome habitual in your
behaviors and reactionary inthose poor responses that you've
fallen into.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Right.
Restoring a healthy pursuit andresponse dynamic from a toxic
cycle becomes much moredifficult the longer you ignore
it.
So must be willing to havethose conversations.
Don't, don't, don't just letthis go by the wayside.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
No, because then you fall into the pressure and the
withdrawal and the angryprotests and the coldness and
the bitterness and theresentment and the anger and the
jealousy and all those thingsthat not only cause conflict now
but then set you into thesecycles and habits of these kinds
of behaviors and responses.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Right, and so you know, I think clearly the the
wife who sent us the email,she's it seems to me she's
writing this from a standpointthat she is the responder,
that's the role she'scomfortable with, and so she's
asking what do I do?
What do I do now?
Well, my advice to her is alsothat, whenever possible, learn
(27:55):
to be a better responder, andthat means my job as a responder
is to protect the vulnerabilityof my pursuer, and I do that by
minimizing rejection.
In other words, again, theirbiggest fear, a pursuer's
biggest fear, is rejection.
(28:15):
They are afraid that theirdesire is too much, and so when
I am met with a bid forconnection, I have to respond to
that.
I have to protect my pursuerwhenever they are responding, by
minimizing any rejection in theway that I go about rejecting.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
And that's a lot about kind of what we talked
about in the most recent episodewith the orange peel test.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
The title of it seems kind of silly.
There we're talking aboutYouTube relationship tests, but
I think there was some deepstuff in that episode.
Yeah, to go listen to that oneif you haven't listened to it.
But the whole point of that isrespond to bids for connection.
Never ignore.
Never ignore when either one ofyou are looking for a
connection.
Looking for a connection.
(29:12):
Learn instead to be a betterlistener.
Learn to be looking for thesubtle cues and clues that they
are pursuing.
So maybe their pursuit looksdifferent, maybe it has changed
and you haven't actually pickedup on the different way in which
they're pursuing.
Maybe, yes, they have stoppedpursuing in a strong, healthy
way.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
But look for itty bitty little signals of pursuit
and respond to that, yeah, youhave to at least respond, even
if you can't be a full.
Yes, let's go right here, rightnow.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
When we're saying respond, I'm not meaning like,
all right, here we go right now,wherever we are.
That's not what I mean byrespond.
We mean acknowledge that bidfor connection, don't just
ignore it, don't just shoot itdown, but offer some degree of
positive response.
Thank you for desiring thislevel of connection with me.
(30:05):
Yes, Now what your famous lineis always now in the middle of
Walmart.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
It's not a good time for that, but and it may not be,
but I the point is as aresponder, I say I see you, I
hear you, I am grateful for yourdesire to connect with me.
We, I can't commit to thatright now, right here where we
are, but here's maybe analternative, or here is a time
(30:32):
when we can both come togetherand offer that range.
It's a rain check, yes, right.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
And when you offer a rain check, show up.
Show up because, again, your,your role as a responder is
protective vulnerability, and soif you've offered the rain
check, you're just going to bethat much more of a place of
rejection if you don't show up.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
If you want them, if you want your spouse to pursue
you, then they need to know thatyou are going to respond.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
So I think, alongside that, as a responder, be sure
that you are pursuing where youare best at pursuing, so your
job isn't necessarily to thenjust become the sexual pursuer.
If you are in a marriage whereyour spouse is clearly the
(31:23):
sexual pursuer and they all of asudden have checked out, the
answer isn't okay.
You just become the sexual riskpursuer.
And I think our emailer isgetting at that right.
She's like well, now I'm tryingand he's rejecting, like
because it's the dynamic is offright.
So your job isn't just okay,we'll pick up the slack and you
(31:44):
do their job, but realize thatthere are two sides to this
right.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
If she starts pursuing, that may be the uh,
the, just the little boost thatthe relationship needs to give
him some confidence to startpursuing again without fear of
rejection.
In other words, if she starts,if she just gives a little nudge
, if she leans a little bit thatdirection, that may be all that
(32:11):
he needs to realize oh, this isall good again and I can pursue
again in a more confident way.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
And I don't have to worry about being rejected
because I can.
He no longer needs to put forthany effort in the relationship
and the situation will becomemore entrenched.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Right.
Sometimes pursuers just simplyget lazy and they become only
motivated to put in the effortto pursue kind of as a last
resort.
They're like, well, if I canstill get what I want here
without putting forth any effortand without being vulnerable,
then sometimes I'm willing to belazy enough to just let that
(32:58):
happen, especially if my spouseis not going to let it slide,
especially if I know my spouseis going to pick up the slack.
And not call me out on meholding up my end of the side of
this equation Right, then I, asa pursuer, I'm just going to
let it happen, because then Iget the best of both worlds.
I get what I want, and I alsodon't have to risk any
(33:20):
vulnerability in doing so.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Right, which clearly is a toxic situation that you're
dealing with.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
That doesn't work well In a situation like this.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
In general, it's not a bad idea for the sexual
responder to reach out withsexual bids for connection to
help spark some energy, someconfidence, some connection into
the relationship.
But a caution, because this hasto be done with actual desire.
This isn't just done withactual desire, this isn't just
(33:52):
okay.
Fine, we're not having as muchsex as we used to.
Here's my body.
Don't just, don't just presentyourself as a slab of meat and
that you're just an item on a todo list.
Don't just go through themotions.
That is not connection.
It's not, it's only going tomake it worse, and it could be.
I mean, obviously we don't knowthe full dynamics of the email,
right, but one possiblesituation is that it kind of
(34:15):
worked at the beginning, but butthis pursuer who's no longer
pursuing, is tired of mercy sex.
They don't want just a.
Ok, I'm just showing up to bethe quote unquote good wife, so
you know you can't.
That's not going to solve it ifyou're just showing up, it has
(34:35):
to be actual desire.
You need to also desire thatconnection.
Are you going to express thatwithin your body the same way
that a by nature sexual pursuer?
Probably not.
But that doesn't mean you can'thave the desire for sex within
your heart and your soul and thedesire for be there.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Yeah, be there and be connected.
I think that's the.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
And so if you find that after a few attempts your
pursuer is still not pursuing,then you got to take a more
direct approach, and that meanshave the conversation.
That's where it always comesback with us.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Right, that's right.
You got to call it out and yougot to address it and confront
it head on.
Again, we're not suggestingthat you, as a natural responder
, have to become a pursuer.
We're not even suggesting thatyou have to initiate sex.
Sometimes, all that is neededis that you just initiate
(35:34):
sexuality, that you initiatephysical touch, that you
initiate sexual conversation.
That kind of initiation in manycases would be all that is
enough to let your and again,the point is, you need to let
your pursuer know that it issafe to pursue me.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
And that you miss the connection that comes from the
sexual union in your marriage.
In other words, sex is neversomething that we can just take
out.
It's not a piece of the pie,it's the eggs holding the cake
together.
Right, we've said that over andover, but you need to maybe let
your pursuer know I missed thisand I'm not willing to just
(36:18):
settle for good enough.
And so this requires you tokeep reaching out, keep pursuing
in ways that you are best atpursuing at.
Maybe you're the emotionalpursuer.
Make sure that you areemotionally pursuing your spouse
.
Even if you are being rejected.
You know again, sex doesn'tjust happen in a little bubble
(36:41):
right.
It is a big part of your wholerelationship.
So if your sex life isn'tworking, odds are pretty high
that other areas of your lifeare not working.
You yourself might be feeling aplace of rejection and
therefore pulling back.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
So make the connections wherever you can
find them, wherever that is inyour relationship.
Again, if you're not the sexualpursuer, then pursue in the
ways that you pursue best andkeep making those connections.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
All right, Matt, give us our wrap up.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Sexual pursuers may stop pursuing for many reasons
and it's often more complicatedthan just hormones.
A change in this dynamic inyour relationship should never
be ignored and requires animportant conversation.
The pursuer in this dynamicmust be willing to respond with
enthusiasm and continue to reachout to make connections
(37:35):
wherever possible.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Now it's time to grab your spouse and your Bible and
head to your kitchen table tohave the conversation about
making sure that you each feelwanted.
What are you going to do to bea better responder and pursuer
in your relationship?
Speaker 1 (37:51):
We would love to hear your feedback.
Contact us by emailing podcastat intimate covenantcom or to
submit anonymous feedback andquestions, Go to our website
intimate covenantcom slashpodcast.
Thanks to all of you forlistening.
For those of you who subscribe,thank you for rating and for
sharing the podcast.
We are truly humbled always byyour encouragement and your
(38:13):
support.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Thanks especially to our Patreon subscribers for
coming alongside us in a veryreal way.
We love you.
If you would like to joinIntimate Covenant by supporting
the podcast and our greatermission to share God's plan for
intimate marriage and holysexuality, subscribe at
patreoncom.
Slash intimate covenant.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Until next time, keep striving and don't settle.
Hey, Jen want to talk about sexual pursuers who stop
pursuing.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
So you're saying there's a chance.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Great.
Today we're going to discussthe complexities of when a
sexual pursuer in therelationship stops pursuing.
Let's do it.
Welcome friends.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome.
We're Matt and Jen, and this isthe Intimate Covenant Podcast
where we believe the Bible andgreat married sex.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Both belong on your kitchen table.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
That's right.
We're talking about godlymarriage with hot sex and
emotionally fulfilling oneness.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
We are so glad you're with us.
Thanks for joining us.
If you would like to know moreabout Intimate Covenant, you can
find us at our website,IntimateCovenantcom, and
certainly we would love to haveyour feedback about the podcast
or your questions about anything.
Contact us at podcast atIntimateCovenantcom.
That's right so speaking of ourinbox, yeah, Recently we got a
(00:58):
question from a wife who saidthat my spouse desires sex more
but has stopped initiating andwaits for me to do so, which
makes me feel pressure, and whenI do initiate he often rejects
Help Question mark.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
We get it.
This is a profoundly commonsituation in marriage, where the
sexual pursuer stops pursuing,sometimes to the point of like
flipping the dynamics, such thatthe spouse, who has been used
to being primarily the sexualresponder, now becomes that
(01:42):
sexual pursuer or, worse, yetnobody is pursuing and therefore
sex is not happening.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yes, exactly, and the easy answer in these situations
is to assume that, well, thesexual pursuer in this
relationship has just lost hislibido, that is, like his
natural sex drive is justnaturally declining with age.
And while age-related, likedeclining testosterone or other
(02:12):
age-related or naturalcircumstances are sometimes an
explanation as to why somepursuers stop pursuing, the
actual cause for this situationin most relationships is far
more complex and far morenuanced, and it requires much
more complex solutions than justhormonal supplementation, as it
(02:36):
were.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
That's right.
So that's what we're going todive into today on the podcast.
But before we get into thosedetails and nuances, we have a
few announcements we just needto share with you guys.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, so our regular listeners have probably noticed,
maybe have noticed, hopefullyhave noticed that our recent
episodes have just not beendropping with the same kind of
rigid regularity that you mightbe accustomed to.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yes, because Matthew was all about the rigid
regularity when it came to thepodcast, and so we apologize if
we've ruined a morning commuteor two, because you were looking
forward to hearing us everyother Monday.
It's not you, it's not yourphone, it's not your app, it's
not your Internet connection.
(03:24):
Right, it's not your phone,it's not your app, it's not your
internet connection.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Right, it's us.
We simply have just not had thecapacity to get caught up with
everything that is required inwriting and recording these
episodes.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, you guys may think that this looks, you know
and sounds very nice and easy,but there's a lot of work that
goes into this, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
In general.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
We love that, but it requires time.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
It does require quite an investment in time, both
before and after we record.
So for the foreseeable future,we're going to be cutting back
these episodes to just oneepisode per month.
If you've been with us from thevery bitter beginning, you
remember that we used to dothese episodes once a week.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
We did because when we started this, I thought well,
we'll run out of things to talkabout within three months, so
that's fine.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
but we didn't.
So with some other changes inour lives, we cut back to every
other week, and we've been doingit that way for about the past
year or so.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Right, but we are at a point where, for right now, we
do need to cut back, consuminga lot of energy and time
specifically helping walkalongside our dear, dear friends
while they're dealing withcancer treatments for their very
young child, and that requiresa lot of emotional investment
and time.
We're also adjusting to someother big changes in our lives,
(05:01):
including a big change for mattin his role at his work and just
some other things that are partof our private life.
We do have a private life, um,that we're just not going to
share with the whole world, um.
One of the one of the changes,though, that we can share with
the whole, that jen is veryexcited to share.
I'm like sharing it with anybodyand everybody, including the
(05:23):
people in the grocery store.
We are thrilled to announcethat, as of last week, we are
grandparents.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Pretty exciting, pretty exciting.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
We are now doc and Grammy and we couldn't be
prouder.
We are ecstatic.
I have the cutest grandson evermade in the history of the
world there is no question.
Without a doubt.
Dare you to challenge that?
We have the pictures to proveit.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
But that has obviously changed our priorities
and some of our attention andyou know, quite truthfully, we
are constantly torn between ourpassion to try to provide a
space for these essentialconversations about God's plan
for marriage, and we still havethat same level of passion, but
we also are torn between thatpassion and also that critical
(06:16):
need to attend to our ownpersonal lives and our own
personal responsibilities.
Right, I mean.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I have said for a long time that intimate covenant
has to come from our leftovers.
It is not the definition of whowe are.
Let's make sure that that'sclear.
We're not going away.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
We're just simply, in a lot of ways, simply changing
where and how we are investingthe time that we have to commit
to Intimate Covenant Right.
(06:53):
So we're shifting a little bitaway from the podcast, as it
were, but we hope we intend toand we will shift that focus
toward some other importantthings.
For example, one of thosethings is singles.
We've obviously invested a lotof time and our primary focus
(07:15):
has been, and probably alwayswill be, in investing in married
couples.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Um, but uh, we also have recently, more recently
started to answer this call fromunmarried folks who have asked
for some guidance in how tobeating down the door, asking
for a lot of ways.
Yes For guidance, we hear you.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
We hear you.
So, um, we are.
We want to help with some ofthat guidance in dealing with
their sexuality, especiallywhile unmarried, and some
guidance in finding a suitablemate.
And that is also very excitingto us because we know, and we
have come to know for sure, thatmarriages don't happen well if
(08:00):
people are unprepared, and so ifwe can invest in those who are
unmarried, we hope that we canhelp make this, make our jobs
easier, maybe in the future,maybe that's part of a selfish
motivation, so along those lines.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
We are having a single event Kingdom Singles
here in the Houston area, in ourown backyard, taking care of
our local singles.
That event will happen onSaturday local singles that
event will happen on Saturday,july 20th, at a super cool venue
.
It's called Hebrews Coffeehouse.
It's in the Woodlands, texas.
(08:33):
So that's from 3 to 7 pm and itis a free event for our area
singles.
Thanks to some great folks whohave already come alongside and
offered up some donations and ifyou would like to join us in
helping to support this event,your donations are welcome.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, there's still room for some donations.
Otherwise, we're going to coverthe costs, whatever that ends
up being.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
But we feel passionate about this and think
that this is a good event tooffer for free to singles, and
so it will get covered one wayor the other, but we would love
for you to come alongside us.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
We would love to have your help with that.
You can let your single friendsknow your unmarried friends
that the event is free.
It includes specialty coffee,oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
You can't go to a coffee house and not get an
amazing coffee made by a Hebrewstaff.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
So yeah, we'll have some other refreshments as well.
We're going to cover sometopics like how to find
spiritual purpose while you areunmarried, also how to handle
sexual desire while you'reunmarried, and also then how to
be purposeful in your dating, sothat your dating and how you go
about that process matches whatyour true intentions are and
(09:48):
your spiritual purpose.
So we'll include some time foran anonymous Q&A.
There's also going to be plentyof time for socialization.
It's for socializingSocialization, not socialization
.
Hopefully that's been takencare of already.
Socializing and some fun.
And some fun, yes.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
So registration is now open.
Go to IntimateCovenantcombackslash H-O-U singles and
again, that event is free and wewould love for you are probably
our married friends that aremost listening to this podcast
but tell your single friendsright and let them know that
(10:28):
this is happening and that wewould love to see that and if
you would like again to be, ifyou're willing and able to help
donate to sponsor this event,contact us at podcast, at
intimate covenantcom.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yep, this material that we're going to be covering
in uh this event is going tosoon be available as an e-course
for young adults.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
so if you don't live in the houston area and you
still want to be exposed to thematerial, we're going to make
that available to uh everyone,hopefully here shortly and
eventually we would even like topresent this material in an
e-course format that teens andparents can watch together,
watch separately, be able to useit as a resource for young
(11:14):
singles.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
So this is something you've been working on.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah, this has been something on the back burner for
a long time, but again, we havelimited amount of time and the
podcast tends to eat up a lot ofthat time, so we're just
shifting a little bit.
We're not going anywhere.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, but we're shifting and, speaking of
e-courses, we we have a newe-course that has just launched
today, literally like yes, as ofin the last week just launched.
And this e-course it'ssomething that we also have been
working on for a while, butit's also launching in
coinciding with the launch ofthe annual Dating Divas Marriage
(11:52):
Bundle.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yes, this is our third year being asked to be
participants with the MarriageBundle put on by the Dating Diva
, and we have created a brandnew e-course for this bundle and
that goes live today as of thedropping of this podcast, and it
is an incredible deal, onlyavailable for a limited time.
(12:16):
If you've been around the blockwith us, you've heard us talk
about Dating Diva's marriagebundles.
They are phenomenal.
So this year there are going tobe 19 contributors Altogether.
All of the resources that arebeing offered in the Marriage
Bundle is a greater than $400value that Dating Divas is
(12:37):
making available for only $50.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
That's a pretty big discount, but wait, there's more
.
Good job.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
If you use our unique link, you will get a $15 off
this regular price of $50.
And if you need to help doingthe math, that brings it all the
way down to $35.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
$35 for a $400 value bundle.
That is less than $2 perresource that is in this bundle.
So it is a great deal and ifyou use our unique link, which
will be available in the shownotes, we'll have it on our
social media.
We'll have it in emails thatare going out.
(13:21):
So look for that, Use ourunique link and we'll make a
little bit on that sale.
You are supporting IntimateCovenant when you buy through
our link and we appreciate thatfor you.
You'll get $15 off of the priceand you'll also get a freebie
when you access our course.
We're going to throw in alittle bit of extra for you.
(13:42):
We're going to leave that as asurprise.
You can find out what that is.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
That's a freebie, all right.
So our e-course we have titledthis year's e-course Make Better
Connections Understand whatyour Spouse Needs and why you
Sometimes Miss.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
So we've taken this chance in this e-course to kind
of elaborate a little bit moreon the pursuer-responder dynamic
.
Not coincidentally, we'retalking about that
pursuer-responder dynamic in ourepisode today, and so we're
going to elaborate on thatdynamic and really kind of get
into why do each other'stendencies and each other's
(14:19):
needs work often cause us todevolve into conflict.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And so we're going to provide some suggestions in how
you can take those moments ofconflict and turn them into
opportunities and moments forconnection and growth.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
That's right, and this e-course comes with a
worksheet with questions to helpyou and your spouse better
communicate about these topicsand then carry on with
meaningful conversations.
It's not just listening to us.
We are hoping to provide waysthrough the worksheet and the
conversation, suggestions ofways that you guys can apply
(14:55):
this within your marriage.
So we think it's a phenomenalresource and so we would love
for you to get to be a part ofit, and so we would love for you
to get to be a part of it.
More information about thiscourse and others can be found
at IntimateCovenantcom slashcourses.
But if you want just oure-course, without the entire
marriage bundle, you cancertainly go there and purchase
(15:18):
it on our website.
But don't miss out on theDating Divas Marriage Bundle,
because it's a great deal.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
It's a pretty good deal, but there's a lot of great
stuff.
If you just want our stuff, wewon't be sad about that either,
and we have a few more of thesecourses in the works, so stay
tuned.
Some of them are half written,some of them are partly written,
partly prepared and so we'regetting those done and getting
those recordings done andeverything.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Sorry for the long introduction and the long
announcements, but we felt likewe really just needed to take a
few minutes of your time toupdate you, to share these
announcements with you.
Again, with all of these otherthings going on and other
opportunities for our time andenergy, we're going to back off
of the podcast to just themonthly episodes and we're
(16:03):
thankful for your understanding.
Just the monthly episodes andwe we're thankful for your
understanding.
We thankful for you continuingto listen, even if you're only
going to get a monthly dose ofMatt and Jen.
But just know that we are goingto be using that time number
one in our personal life butalso to create other resources
that we've really been wantingto work on for quite a long time
.
So we appreciate you allsticking around and being
(16:27):
supporters of Intimate Covenant.
We really appreciate all ofyour encouragement, your support
and your feedback.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yes, love you and appreciate you.
So now, like 17 minutes intothis, that's all right, we got
it.
We opened this episode with anemail from a wife whose husband
had been the sexual pursuer inthe relationship, but lately he
has stopped initiating sex, andso now she is feeling rejected
(16:56):
by her attempts to try torestore their sexual
relationship.
So what might be happening here?
And I think that's a that's aninteresting situation?
I I really don't think this isa unique situation.
This is something that probablyhappens in most relationships
from time to time.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Specifically this shift where a pursuer starts
pursuing less Right.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Right.
So what are the reasons that asexual pursuer might stop
pursuing or start pursuing less?
Well, stress is a huge reason.
Sure, just having a lot on yourplate can block your ability to
really desire.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, we mentioned that.
You know that libido, or liketestosterone, is always given
the blame in these situations,but that's not always
necessarily the case.
Certainly, stress is a hugelibido killer.
It's a huge impactor in justhow much natural desire you
might feel.
Health problems also hugereason why someone may stop
(17:59):
pursuing or slow down in thatpursuit.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Right.
Low testosterone, chronic pain,chronic illness or other
diseases of aging all of thatcan contribute.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Absolutely.
How about shame?
I mean shame, especially shamesurrounding your sexuality, is a
tremendously common reason whysomeone may stop pursuing and
that is going to manifest fordifferent reasons at different
times in your relationship andin your just lifetime, and so
(18:33):
that's certainly something.
But what we mean by that isthese are the internal moral
conflicts that someone may haveabout their sexual desire and
about sex itself.
So if I'm feeling thatoverwhelming shame about my
sexuality, then obviously that'sgoing to impact how much I want
(18:54):
to pursue and how I wouldpursue.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Right.
But along with that shame youcan also have shame based in how
your body is or is notresponding to sexual stimuli and
so any kind of sexualdysfunction, whether that's ED
or PE, like both, that can causea big reason to you know kind
of just decide that it's not, Ican't pursue, it's not worth
(19:20):
that effort, I don't want to.
I don't want to feel the senseof rejection.
I don't want to risk this.
I don't want to feel the senseof rejection.
I don't want to risk this.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
I don't want to risk failing in this way.
I think that's another bigreason.
So, yeah, that shame may comefrom a moral conflict, but it
also may come from just an innerconflict about my ability to
perform.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, and conflict as a whole is a reason that a
sexual pursuer may stop pursuing?
I mean, is a reason that asexual pursuer may stop pursuing
?
I mean any kind of discord inyour relationship, even if it's
non-sexual.
Conflict just makes it moredifficult to bridge that gap and
make those connections.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah, so the conflict may be coming from within, and
it also may be coming from myrelationship with someone else,
with my spouse, and so it justmakes it more difficult to make
those connections, to want toreach out if there is.
This other tension, even ifit's not a sexual disagreement
or conflict, makes it tougher tobridge that gap.
(20:15):
Another common reason that asexual pursuer may stop pursuing
is because of betrayal.
That is, a pursuer who maybe isguilty of betrayal, and again,
whether that is a full onemotional or sexual affair or
whether that is betrayal in theform of pornography or other
(20:37):
other forms of infidelity, thatthose are reasons why a pursuer
may stop pursuing his spouse,perhaps because his energy is
being wasted and spent somewhereelse.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
And I think rejection is another huge reason that
pursuers stop pursuing Apursuer's.
You know, their number one fearis rejection, right, and so if
they have been met with constantrejection, frankly they may
just get to a point where it'snot worth it, and so there may
be bitterness, there may bedejection from past rejections
(21:14):
that are blocking them from evenrisking a possible rejection
relationship that sometimes onerejection is all that it takes
to really shut that down,because that just may be
different than the norm.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
If a pursuer is used to constant connection in that
way and has never been rejected,sometimes that first rejection
can be fairly impactful.
So something to be aware ofthere.
And then I would say anotherreason why a pursuer may stop
pursuing is they're just gettingpoor quality sex, and I don't
(21:51):
mean like he's not.
The pursuer is not getting theswinging from the chandeliers
kind of sex, although maybethat's why If, if, if someone's
not getting what they're askingfor, they may just Whether what
they're asking for is healthy orunhealthy.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Right yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
But especially if the sexual connection is poor
there's not anything beyond justthen the spouse presenting
their body Then you know, is itworth pursuing?
At that point, you know why askfor something when you know
you're going to get somethingthat is poor quality, that that
may be a reason why.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
So there's probably plenty other reasons, but that's
just.
You know that we went throughall of that to just kind of help
put into all of our minds like,oh wow, there's a lot of
reasons, yes Right, why apursuer might stop pursuing, and
not all of them are justbecause he doesn't want to have
sex anymore.
You know where she she nolonger is thinking about sex.
(22:50):
I mean, it's a very complex andthey're not all physiologic.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I guess that's the other point.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
So the question then is obviously what do we do about
that?
What do you do?
I mean, that's the point ofthis email my pursuers no longer
wanting to pursue.
So what do I do about it?
Well, like the emailer, I mean,obviously she's paying
attention to this, and thatwould be.
The first step is that we wouldsay that when your pursuer
(23:18):
stops pursuing, you need tonotice it.
To notice it, yes.
When that pursuer backs off,you must be willing to examine.
Is there something unhealthy inour relationship?
Don't just be like, oh okay, nolonger pursuing, We'll just let
that one ride.
Yeah, Be willing to dig intowhat's going on here.
(23:39):
What dynamic is that?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yeah, and maybe one of the reasons that there may be
lots of reasons.
Maybe there's too much pressureby the pursuer and so they're
pursuing in a poor way.
Maybe there's too muchrejection by the responder,
maybe there's too muchwithdrawal or right.
All of that's possible, right,be willing to explore all of the
possibilities.
I think that's what we'resaying is there, and sometimes
(24:02):
it's not just one reason.
We just gave a big, long list,but I don't think it's hard to
imagine that in most of ourlives it's complicated and there
may be a number of differentfactors.
Sometimes you might be livingwith a lot of stress, but it
doesn't really affect your sexlife until you add a health
problem on top of it orsomething else on top of it.
(24:24):
So there's a lot of reasons whythat can be better or worse at
different times.
So look at all of thesepossibilities and I think, like
we've really talked about in alot of other ways in a lot of
other contexts, you have to bewilling to approach this problem
from an us mentality, like whatare we?
What can we do about it, ratherthan casting the blame on you.
(24:44):
Right, right, do approach thiswithout making accusations,
without blaming.
It's certainly okay to point itout and to complain like, hey,
we're not having as much sex aswe used to, or we're not having
a healthy amount of sex.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
That's providing connection and by complaining we
don't mean like beingdisrespectful to your spouse,
but rather bringing that up,bringing it to the table that
you know something is not rightand I don't want to just settle
in the something's not workingright and so most of the time
(25:21):
the problem is two sided and allof the time the problem
requires both of you to beinvested in that solution.
For example, your spouse'shealth problems are not your
fault.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Maybe not even their fault either.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Right, but you as a spouse play a huge role in
helping your spouse overcometheir challenges through that
support and encouragement,accountability, motivation,
changing patterns in oldrelationship behaviors.
I mean, we just went to awedding yesterday, right.
What is the most common thingin a vow, in sickness and in
(25:57):
health, right?
So when we're dealing with oneof our health, it is a we
problem and it requires both ofus to be a part of that.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Absolutely yeah, every problem is a we problem.
So, whatever the cause is,you've got to be willing to
acknowledge it and you've got tobe willing to confront it.
And that means confronting itin yourself, certainly taking
responsibility for what is mine,and I've got to be willing to
confront it in my spouse, thatis, be willing to bring it to
(26:30):
their attention, not just ignoreit, not just hope that time is
going to take care of it.
Got to be willing to have aconversation about those things
that are not right in ourrelationship.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Time does not heal things.
It just causes you both tobecome habitual in your
behaviors and reactionary inthose poor responses that you've
fallen into.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Right.
Restoring a healthy pursuit andresponse dynamic from a toxic
cycle becomes much moredifficult the longer you ignore
it.
So must be willing to havethose conversations.
Don't, don't, don't just letthis go by the wayside.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
No, because then you fall into the pressure and the
withdrawal and the angryprotests and the coldness and
the bitterness and theresentment and the anger and the
jealousy and all those thingsthat not only cause conflict now
but then set you into thesecycles and habits of these kinds
of behaviors and responses.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Right, and so you know, I think clearly the the
wife who sent us the email,she's it seems to me she's
writing this from a standpointthat she is the responder,
that's the role she'scomfortable with, and so she's
asking what do I do?
What do I do now?
Well, my advice to her is alsothat, whenever possible, learn
(27:55):
to be a better responder, andthat means my job as a responder
is to protect the vulnerabilityof my pursuer, and I do that by
minimizing rejection.
In other words, again, theirbiggest fear, a pursuer's
biggest fear, is rejection.
(28:15):
They are afraid that theirdesire is too much, and so when
I am met with a bid forconnection, I have to respond to
that.
I have to protect my pursuerwhenever they are responding, by
minimizing any rejection in theway that I go about rejecting.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
And that's a lot about kind of what we talked
about in the most recent episodewith the orange peel test.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
The title of it seems kind of silly.
There we're talking aboutYouTube relationship tests, but
I think there was some deepstuff in that episode.
Yeah, to go listen to that oneif you haven't listened to it.
But the whole point of that isrespond to bids for connection.
Never ignore.
Never ignore when either one ofyou are looking for a
connection.
Looking for a connection.
(29:12):
Learn instead to be a betterlistener.
Learn to be looking for thesubtle cues and clues that they
are pursuing.
So maybe their pursuit looksdifferent, maybe it has changed
and you haven't actually pickedup on the different way in which
they're pursuing.
Maybe, yes, they have stoppedpursuing in a strong, healthy
way.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
But look for itty bitty little signals of pursuit
and respond to that, yeah, youhave to at least respond, even
if you can't be a full.
Yes, let's go right here, rightnow.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
When we're saying respond, I'm not meaning like,
all right, here we go right now,wherever we are.
That's not what I mean byrespond.
We mean acknowledge that bidfor connection, don't just
ignore it, don't just shoot itdown, but offer some degree of
positive response.
Thank you for desiring thislevel of connection with me.
(30:05):
Yes, Now what your famous lineis always now in the middle of
Walmart.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
It's not a good time for that, but and it may not be,
but I the point is as aresponder, I say I see you, I
hear you, I am grateful for yourdesire to connect with me.
We, I can't commit to thatright now, right here where we
are, but here's maybe analternative, or here is a time
(30:32):
when we can both come togetherand offer that range.
It's a rain check, yes, right.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
And when you offer a rain check, show up.
Show up because, again, your,your role as a responder is
protective vulnerability, and soif you've offered the rain
check, you're just going to bethat much more of a place of
rejection if you don't show up.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
If you want them, if you want your spouse to pursue
you, then they need to know thatyou are going to respond.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
So I think, alongside that, as a responder, be sure
that you are pursuing where youare best at pursuing, so your
job isn't necessarily to thenjust become the sexual pursuer.
If you are in a marriage whereyour spouse is clearly the
(31:23):
sexual pursuer and they all of asudden have checked out, the
answer isn't okay.
You just become the sexual riskpursuer.
And I think our emailer isgetting at that right.
She's like well, now I'm tryingand he's rejecting, like
because it's the dynamic is offright.
So your job isn't just okay,we'll pick up the slack and you
(31:44):
do their job, but realize thatthere are two sides to this
right.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
If she starts pursuing, that may be the uh,
the, just the little boost thatthe relationship needs to give
him some confidence to startpursuing again without fear of
rejection.
In other words, if she starts,if she just gives a little nudge
, if she leans a little bit thatdirection, that may be all that
(32:11):
he needs to realize oh, this isall good again and I can pursue
again in a more confident way.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
And I don't have to worry about being rejected
because I can.
He no longer needs to put forthany effort in the relationship
and the situation will becomemore entrenched.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Right.
Sometimes pursuers just simplyget lazy and they become only
motivated to put in the effortto pursue kind of as a last
resort.
They're like, well, if I canstill get what I want here
without putting forth any effortand without being vulnerable,
then sometimes I'm willing to belazy enough to just let that
(32:58):
happen, especially if my spouseis not going to let it slide,
especially if I know my spouseis going to pick up the slack.
And not call me out on meholding up my end of the side of
this equation Right, then I, asa pursuer, I'm just going to
let it happen, because then Iget the best of both worlds.
I get what I want, and I alsodon't have to risk any
(33:20):
vulnerability in doing so.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Right, which clearly is a toxic situation that you're
dealing with.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
That doesn't work well In a situation like this.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
In general, it's not a bad idea for the sexual
responder to reach out withsexual bids for connection to
help spark some energy, someconfidence, some connection into
the relationship.
But a caution, because this hasto be done with actual desire.
This isn't just done withactual desire, this isn't just
(33:52):
okay.
Fine, we're not having as muchsex as we used to.
Here's my body.
Don't just, don't just presentyourself as a slab of meat and
that you're just an item on a todo list.
Don't just go through themotions.
That is not connection.
It's not, it's only going tomake it worse, and it could be.
I mean, obviously we don't knowthe full dynamics of the email,
right, but one possiblesituation is that it kind of
(34:15):
worked at the beginning, but butthis pursuer who's no longer
pursuing, is tired of mercy sex.
They don't want just a.
Ok, I'm just showing up to bethe quote unquote good wife, so
you know you can't.
That's not going to solve it ifyou're just showing up, it has
(34:35):
to be actual desire.
You need to also desire thatconnection.
Are you going to express thatwithin your body the same way
that a by nature sexual pursuer?
Probably not.
But that doesn't mean you can'thave the desire for sex within
your heart and your soul and thedesire for be there.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Yeah, be there and be connected.
I think that's the.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
And so if you find that after a few attempts your
pursuer is still not pursuing,then you got to take a more
direct approach, and that meanshave the conversation.
That's where it always comesback with us.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Right, that's right.
You got to call it out and yougot to address it and confront
it head on.
Again, we're not suggestingthat you, as a natural responder
, have to become a pursuer.
We're not even suggesting thatyou have to initiate sex.
Sometimes, all that is neededis that you just initiate
(35:34):
sexuality, that you initiatephysical touch, that you
initiate sexual conversation.
That kind of initiation in manycases would be all that is
enough to let your and again,the point is, you need to let
your pursuer know that it issafe to pursue me.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
And that you miss the connection that comes from the
sexual union in your marriage.
In other words, sex is neversomething that we can just take
out.
It's not a piece of the pie,it's the eggs holding the cake
together.
Right, we've said that over andover, but you need to maybe let
your pursuer know I missed thisand I'm not willing to just
(36:18):
settle for good enough.
And so this requires you tokeep reaching out, keep pursuing
in ways that you are best atpursuing at.
Maybe you're the emotionalpursuer.
Make sure that you areemotionally pursuing your spouse
.
Even if you are being rejected.
You know again, sex doesn'tjust happen in a little bubble
(36:41):
right.
It is a big part of your wholerelationship.
So if your sex life isn'tworking, odds are pretty high
that other areas of your lifeare not working.
You yourself might be feeling aplace of rejection and
therefore pulling back.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
So make the connections wherever you can
find them, wherever that is inyour relationship.
Again, if you're not the sexualpursuer, then pursue in the
ways that you pursue best andkeep making those connections.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
All right, Matt, give us our wrap up.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Sexual pursuers may stop pursuing for many reasons
and it's often more complicatedthan just hormones.
A change in this dynamic inyour relationship should never
be ignored and requires animportant conversation.
The pursuer in this dynamicmust be willing to respond with
enthusiasm and continue to reachout to make connections
(37:35):
wherever possible.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Now it's time to grab your spouse and your Bible and
head to your kitchen table tohave the conversation about
making sure that you each feelwanted.
What are you going to do to bea better responder and pursuer
in your relationship?
Speaker 1 (37:51):
We would love to hear your feedback.
Contact us by emailing podcastat intimate covenantcom or to
submit anonymous feedback andquestions, Go to our website
intimate covenantcom slashpodcast.
Thanks to all of you forlistening.
For those of you who subscribe,thank you for rating and for
sharing the podcast.
We are truly humbled always byyour encouragement and your
(38:13):
support.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Thanks especially to our Patreon subscribers for
coming alongside us in a veryreal way.
We love you.
If you would like to joinIntimate Covenant by supporting
the podcast and our greatermission to share God's plan for
intimate marriage and holysexuality, subscribe at
patreoncom.
Slash intimate covenant.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Until next time, keep striving and don't settle.
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