August 12, 2024 • 38 mins
In this episode, Matt & Jenn discuss the complaint, "My spouse never initiates sex." So, whose job is it, anyway? How can I get my spouse to initiate more often?
- Whether it’s sexual connection or any other aspect of your relationship, if you sense a lack of it in your relationship, it’s up to you to initiate what is missing.
- If you feel like you are the only one initiating, keep striving. But, recognize — with gratitude — that your spouse may be contributing a whole lot more to your sexual and emotional relationship than what you immediately recognize.
- Responders, you can learn to initiate in ways that are comfortable for you and this effort will speak volumes of love to your pursuer.
Also, check out our eCourses, available on our website: www.intimatecovenant.com/courses
What Does Sex Mean To My Spouse?
If you’ve been married for more than 5 minutes, you recognize that you and your spouse see sex differently. Our intention with this eCourse is to challenge you to think about your sexual relationship in ways that you might not have ever considered before. We want to facilitate deep introspection and fruitful conversations between you and your spouse to help you build intimacy and oneness.
Make Better Connections
We all suffer occasions when our attempts to connect are ignored or rejected. This course will help you make better connections in your marriage — emotionally and sexually. Learn to pursue and respond to your spouse with passionate, irresistible vulnerability
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Thanks for sharing, rating, reviewing and subscribing!
Cherishing,
Matt & Jenn
PS — If you have been blessed by the message of this podcast, we would deeply appreciate your support by donating to our mission of spreading God’s plan for intimate marriage and holy sexuality.
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Intimate Covenant | Matt & Jenn Schmidt
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, Jen want to talk about initiating sex.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Let me stop this before you get started.
Great.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
In this episode we're talking about what it feels
like when one spouse is doingall the initiation.
Let's do it.
Welcome friends.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome.
Thanks for joining us on theIntimate Covenant podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Hey, we're Matt and Jen and we are talking about
intimate relationships.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
We're talking about we're talking about all the
things.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Covenant marriage.
We're talking about great sexand, specifically today we're
talking about a question that weget all the time yes, whether
it's writing into the podcast,whether it is at live events or
even personal emails that we getthat's right, and it often
comes in the form of a complaint.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yes, very much so Some sort of variation of how
can I get often my wife toinitiate sex more?
Yeah, or we hear something likeI really wish my spouse would
initiate sex more often.
If I didn't initiate sex, itwould never happen.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Oh, yes, exactly.
Or sometimes a variation onthat theme is something like
well, my spouse used to initiatesex, Now they never even seem
to think about it.
Or maybe just a more broad andcurious kind of question,
genuinely curious kind ofquestion, like whose job is it
to be initiating sex?
Is it the husband's job?
(01:34):
Is it always the sexualpursuer's job?
Whose job is it?
And you know, to be fair, youngcouples often struggle with
settling into sexual routinesand this comfortable cadence of
sexual frequency.
And so, granted, young couples,new couples, are going to
(01:55):
struggle with just knowing howis this supposed to work.
What is a comfortable cadenceof frequency?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Right, and that's a normal question.
What is a comfortable cadenceof frequency?
Right, and that's a normalquestion?
I mean you know they'restruggling against, like this
idea of unrealistic expectations, of being surprised or
disappointed by their spouse'sdifference in spontaneity and
their desire or libido.
I mean, that's often just aplace we're at as a young
(02:24):
married couple.
But it's not just the youngcouples that are struggling with
this, because us old couplesotherwise, known as experienced
couples, let's say mature.
We're struggling with this tooright, and often this comes
about when life forces changesin our routine.
So we may have settled into arole and suddenly find ourselves
(02:47):
not quite living that role.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Absolutely.
It's something that mightchange the frequency of
initiation in some of thoserelationships can sometimes be
seen as a rejection.
So you had a routine.
It got changed by life, bywhatever circumstances, and now
the your spouse is wondering whythey're being rejected.
Or sometimes they wonder what,why does my spouse not pursue me
(03:13):
like they used to pursue me?
And so this, this kind ofspirals then into uncertainty.
It spirals into tension,resentment, especially if these
roles and responsibilities arenot being talked about, if we
just slide into a new normalquote, unquote and there are
(03:35):
unresolved questions about thestatus of the relationship.
That leads to a lot ofuncertainty.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
So, whether you're a young couple trying to figure
this out or you're an old couplehaving to re-figure it out,
when one spouse, seemingly, isdoing all the initiation, it can
eventually become a burden anda place of bitterness Absolutely
so.
That's kind of what we're goingto tackle on the podcast on
today's episode.
(04:00):
But before we get to that, someannouncements.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
We do have some exciting announcements, the
first being that preparation forthe retreat continues.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
It definitely continues, as in taking up all
of Matt and Jen's free time.
That's all right, we love it.
This year we have our biggestcrowd ever, completely sold out,
plus a couple.
We squeezed in even more bodiesand we are so excited for the
retreat.
That's September 19th throughthe 21st and it's coming, so all
(04:34):
of you that have signed up tojoin us just know that we are
working overtime to make it anamazing retreat.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
And if you didn't get in this time, stay tuned, stay
tuned, we'll have someannouncements we're going.
Didn't get in this time, staytuned, stay tuned, we'll have
some announcements.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
We're going to be doing it again.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
In the next couple of months we'll have some
announcements about times anddates and locations and all that
.
We also, speaking of ourwebsite, have a couple of
e-courses for sale.
We've developed these and wereally have not done a good job
of promoting them.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
We're not very good at promoting ourselves most days
, so, yeah, it's time for us topromote our e-courses, because I
think we worked hard on theseand did a pretty good job with
them.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
I know we worked hard on them.
We have two specifically.
The first one is called whatdoes sex mean to my spouse?
I mean, if you've been marriedfor more than five minutes, you
recognize that you and yourspouse see sex differently.
Right, you are looking for verydifferent things about sex and
(05:36):
you view it differently.
So our intention with thise-course is to challenge you and
your spouse to think about yoursexual relationship in ways
that maybe you have notconsidered before, and even to
think about your spouse'ssexuality in a way that you have
not considered before.
Hopefully, what we've developedis a way to challenge some of
(05:58):
your thinking and, moreimportantly, to initiate a
conversation.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Exactly, and that's, I think, my favorite thing about
our e-course is it's all builtaround.
Both of them are built aroundinitiating and challenging you
to some good conversations, andso with both of our e-courses we
have video portions and then wealso have kind of a worksheet
that you use as you work yourway through the e-course, so
(06:25):
hopefully it will start theconversations and bring
something good to your marriage.
So our other e-course, ournewest one, is called Make
Better Connections.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
It's about those times.
I mean we all suffer occasionsin our relationships when our
attempts to connect with eachother are ignored or they are
rejected.
This course is going to helpyou make better connections in
your marriage, both emotionallyand sexually.
It is a way to help you learnto pursue and to respond to your
(07:03):
spouse with some passionate andirresistible vulnerability.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Irresistible vulnerability.
If only I could say that well.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Good thing we don't have to talk much for this.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
So y'all should check out our e-courses.
You can find them by going tointimatecovenantcom slash
courses and you will see themfor sale there.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yep, if you have trouble finding them, email us
or send us a message and we'llbe glad to get you in touch with
that.
But I'll link those two coursesin our show notes so that you
have a direct way to find them.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
And before we get into the rest of the podcast,
just one other thing is that wedid want to let you all know
that we have started bookingdates for marriage days in 2025.
So we're starting to open upour calendar and if you are
interested in bringing IntimateCovenant into your community
(07:56):
sometime in the year 2025, nowis the time to reach out.
We will have some limited daysin 2025.
We have some big thingshappening in our personal lives
in 2025, but we will have timefor some good marriage days.
It is one of the favoritethings we do with.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Intimate.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Covenant, getting to travel and meet you guys
face-to-face and spend time on aweekend with you guys.
So we would love to come toyour area, but we would like for
you to book those dates soon.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Let's make that happen.
Give us a call or send us anemail.
We'll be glad to let thathappen.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
All right, Matt.
So today's episode is all aboutwho initiates.
Like we said, it's a bigquestion that a lot of us
struggle with figuring outwithin our marriages.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah, so I mean, let's just give you the answer
from the outset.
Oh, we'll just answer it andwe'll be done, and then you can
decide if you want to listen tothe details or not.
But ultimately, I would say, ina healthy relationship, both of
you should be initiatingconnection in all realms of
intimacy.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Oh, so the answer is everybody listening.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
The answer is E, all of the above.
Now, that said, of course, thisepisode, just like all of our
other podcast episodes, isreally kind of primarily focused
on the sexual aspect of themarriage relationship.
But I do think it's importantfrom time to time, maybe all the
time, to step back and torecognize that sex, of course,
(09:26):
is not the only way that weconnect Right, and so we never
want it to be lost in thepodcast that, while we're
focusing on sex, because of theuniqueness of this venue, that
sex, of course, is not the wholerelationship Exactly, but
sometimes it is an insight intothe relationship and sometimes,
(09:47):
by looking at the sexualrelationship, we learn a whole
lot more about ourselves and welearn about the rest of the
relationship.
But again, in healthyrelationships, both spouses
should be pursuing each otherand both spouses should be
responding to respective bidsfor connection.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Right.
I mean for meaningful andsustained growth to happen in
your marriage, there must beconnection in all realms of your
relationship, and that'semotionally, mentally,
spiritually and physically.
So you're both responsible formaking connections, for seeking
growth in every aspect of yourmarriage.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Now, that said, yes, while you're both responsible,
the pursuer, in whatever realmof intimacy that there is,
whether you are a sexual pursueror whether you are an emotional
pursuer or otherwise, thepursuer is tasked with being the
primary initiator.
So, pursuers, in whatever realm, you Okay, if you are the
(10:58):
pursuer, if this means more toyou, then you are responsible
then for initiating it, andthat's ultimately what a pursuer
is right.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Right.
I mean someone has to initiateright, and the one who values
that particular mode ofconnection well, they have to be
the one willing to riskrejection and make that bid for
connection.
I mean there's no gettingaround this right.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Unless someone makes it happen, it's not going to
happen.
So, sexual pursuers, if youdesire sex, you must pursue it,
you must initiate it.
It is unfair of you as apursuer to resent your spouse
for not providing something thatyou are not pursuing.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Right, and we'll have some more advice for sexual
pursuers here in just a minute.
But I think it's good, matt, tokind of step back and say I
mean, the bottom line is, inwhatever realm you're talking
about, within your marriage, ifyou sense a lack of relationship
, if you sense a lack ofconnection, then it's up to you
(12:05):
to initiate what is missing.
So if you're noticing it, thenyou better be initiating it and
guess what that may mean?
That you became the pursuer forright now in that realm of
connection.
And so maybe you're not bynature a sexual pursuer, but you
(12:25):
notice, hey, we're not havingsex like we should Well guess
what your job is now.
Your job is to pursue thatconnection.
Now you don't have to pursue itin the same way that your
spouse, who's maybe morenaturally a sexual pursuer.
You don't have to pursue it inthe same way they do, but you do
have a responsibility toaddress potential problems in
(12:48):
your relationship when you seethem.
So in that way again, we allare tasked with initiation from
time to time.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Absolutely.
And in addition to that, Iwould say and just remind you
not that you necessarily needreminding, but I think it's
important to point out thatevery relationship is different
and every set of spouses havedifferent relative degrees of
spontaneous sexual desire anddifferent relative degrees of
(13:17):
spontaneous emotional desire,meaning some of you just
naturally desire sexspontaneously more than others
and there are that that may be awide gap in your marriage.
That may be a narrow gap inyour marriage.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Right.
I mean, in some relationships,the pursuer then is the one
who's initiating 90 percent ofthe time, but in other
relationships that pursuer isinitiating like 51 percent of
the time, right, right.
So so thatuer is initiatinglike 51% of the time, right,
right.
So that's what you're meaning.
There can be a wide gap or anarrow gap, but you know your
(13:52):
relationship.
In some relationships, thatrelative level of desire, just
it's going to look different,but you've got to be paying
attention to it.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Absolutely just.
It's going to look different,but you've got to be paying
attention to it.
Absolutely so, sexualresponders even if your spouse
is regularly and frequentlypursuing you guess what?
This doesn't mean that you areoff the hook.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah, Up till now our responders might've been like
ha ha, it's your job.
But no, not really, Because ifone of you is initiating any
form of connection 100% of thetime we're going to challenge
you to say that something is notright.
Now, specifically within thesexual realm, if someone is
initiating sex 100% of the time,we would challenge that sexual
responder in this kind ofrelationship to consider what is
your absolute lack of pursuitcommunicating to your sexual
(14:50):
pursuer, and that'sintentionally or unintentionally
.
If you, as a responder, arenever showing any initiation.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
That is saying something whether you mean it to
or not, yeah, and it may not besaying what you intend to.
It may just be saying you maybe intending to simply say that,
well, I'm happy with thefrequency and quality of our sex
, and so I'm going to let mypursuer keep being the one who's
driving that ship, which isfine.
But if you are never makingeffort to initiate, you may be
(15:23):
telling your pursuer that, well,I'm just not interested.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Well, and I think we see this more easily when it
comes to emotional connection.
So consider what it would meanin a marriage if one spouse
never initiated conversation,like they never ask about how
their spouse's day went, theynever spoke to their spouse
(15:48):
without having to be interruptedfrom their own business.
Like we would say, well, that'sreally unhealthy in that
marriage, right?
What would we think about aspouse who only reluctantly, or
maybe begrudgingly, engaged inconversation, with just one
syllable responses?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yeah, or what if that one spouse never even looked up
from their phone unless theywere asked a direct question?
Speaker 2 (16:10):
So we can see it when it comes to emotional
engagement and conversation, butmaybe you have a little bit
harder time seeing it when itcomes to physical connections
and engagement.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
I think we've bought into the stereotype that well,
you know sexual pursuers and youknow, of course, usually that
is the husband in theserelationships that that's just
their realm, so they'reresponsible for making it all
happen, and so that's justsomething that only husbands
should think about, and wivesare supposed to just sit back
(16:41):
and let it happen to them, andthat's just not how it ought to
be.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
No.
And so, as a sexual responder,male or female, whether it's
your intention or not, if yourarely or never initiate sex,
you may be communicating thatyou're uninterested and even
unattracted to your spouse, andyou need to carefully consider
is that really what you want tobe telling your spouse?
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Right, right, For sure, For sure.
So pursuers, certainly.
Again we started out with thisquestion like well, what if I am
the only one who is initiating?
What do I do with thesefeelings?
When I feel like my spouse isdisengaged, when I feel like my
spouse is not interested, when Ifeel like my spouse never puts
(17:30):
forth the effort to initiate sex, what do I do with those
feelings?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Right, right.
So, as a pursuer, what if I'mthe only one?
Well, I think the first thingwe would say to you is keep up
the good work.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
I know that's hard to hear, but you are doing your
job, you are fulfilling yourrole.
You're taking initiative in avery important part of your
relationship.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah.
What is it that Paul says inGalatians?
Do not grow weary in doing good.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah, and so, regardless of whether or not
your spouse is or isn't fullyliving up to the potential
within their role, you shouldkeep up the good work.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Someone has to be willing to keep their foot on
the pedal, someone has to bewilling to keep initiating and
someone has to be willing tokeep putting in the energy into
this crucial part of yourrelationship.
And if that is just yousometimes, that's just the way
that it is in relationships,that sometimes one of you is
going to be more capable or morewilling to do what needs to be
(18:31):
done.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
I think a lot of times.
We get this question fromspouses who they're strongly the
sexual pursuer and they thinkthat might mean something is
broken in their relationship orwith their spouse.
But if your spouse is generallyresponsive to your pursuit and
they engage with energy, don'ttake that for granted.
(18:53):
Don't think of that as well.
Therefore, something is broken.
Well, no, you actually have ahealthy relationship and
something that many would beenvious of, and so see it for
what it is See the beauty inthat you have a spouse willing
to respond.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
So often, the answer to what we perceive, our
problems in our relationship,really just come down to a
matter of finding contentment.
And so I think, like you saiden, if you, if there is pursuit
and response in your sexualrelationship, then it's
generally probably doing betterthan most other sexual
(19:34):
relationships certainly it'sbetter than it could be.
So finding the place to begrateful that it, at the very
least, there is this dynamic ofpursuit and response.
You know, perhaps things aren'tas great as you would like them
to be, but that's what you lookfor.
The challenge for sexualpursuers most of the time is to
(19:56):
stop fixating on what we don'thave.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
So again, it's about finding contentment right.
So you know, sure, there'sareas in your sexual
relationship that you would liketo grow.
Maybe you would like for yourresponder to be a little bit
more bold and to show someinitiative.
But if you can't learn to becontent with what you have now,
you will never be content, evenif you ever get what you want.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
That is a big statement.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Well, and that's true , no matter who you are, no
matter what you are, no matterwhat you're complaining about in
your relationship, if you can'tfind some contentment where you
are, no matter what you are, nomatter what you're complaining
about in your relationship,right, if you can't find some
contentment where you are now,then you're not going to be.
You're going to have a hardertime finding contentment, even
if you get what you want,because there's always something
more to want.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
There is, and so I think, matt, you're right that
first it's starting with thatrecognition of look what I do
have, but sometimes it's alsoshifting your mindset towards,
as a pursuer, find other ways toget what it is that you're
actually looking for.
Is there only one narrow way toget what you're looking for, or
(21:00):
are there other ways to gettowards your goal?
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, and I think this is where some really deep
introspection is necessary forpursuers, especially pursuers
who may be discontented in someway, because I would venture to
say that you you as a sexualpursuer, even if you're worried
about who's initiating you arelooking for more than just the
(21:24):
physical act of sex.
At least, I hope that you are.
In truth, I think you are.
Sometimes we just don'trecognize it, and so consider
how you might be able to findthings like connection or
validation or companionship,whatever it might be that you
are looking for, whatever it isthat you get from sex, whatever
(21:44):
it is that it would bemeaningful for you if your
spouse were initiating more.
What is it that you are lookingfor and where are some other
places where you could find that?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Right and honestly evaluate, as a sexual pursuer,
whether you're initiatingconnection and realms of
intimacy that are meaningful toyour spouse.
This is another way to framethat right are meaningful to
your spouse.
I mean, this is another way toframe that right.
If I'm so hyper fixated on therealm of connection that I want,
(22:20):
to the degree that I am notgiving in other realms of
intimacy, well, I'm the cause ofthe unhealthiness of my
relationship.
And so you know, if you aren'tbuilding connection, how can you
reasonably expect that yourspouse would be inclined to seek
you, especially sexually?
You know, if you're not willingto put forth the effort to
build connection emotionally,then you should be pointing the
(22:44):
finger at your own self.
I think.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
In other words, your spouse may be wondering why you
are unwilling to initiateemotional connection, and maybe
have a legitimate complaint inthat regard as well.
So this obviously goes bothways, and so that's what we're
trying to get you to look at andto see if you are a sexual
pursuer in this condition.
(23:06):
So again, think about thisquestion what would it mean for
you to have your spouse initiatesex more?
Why is this something that youwant?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And it's not wrong to want that?
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Oh no, absolutely not .
I mean, it's certainly notwrong to want that, but we're
asking you to dig a little bitdeeper and think about why is it
that you want this?
What would it mean to you?
Because if you can answer thatquestion, then you can have a
better conversation with yourspouse about explaining to them
what it would mean, and that's amuch better place to come at a
(23:41):
conversation than just I'munhappy with you.
If you can explain, this wouldmean so much to me if you did
this for me, and this is whythat's a much better place to
motivate than using shame orguilt or judgment as a way to
try to motivate them to give youwhat you want.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Right, and I think it's also important in a lot of
cases for pursuers to recognizethat your responder is
initiating.
You just don't realize it.
Good point Responders are oftenvery quiet with their
initiation and they almostalways initiate in ways that
(24:20):
natural sexual pursuers wouldnever even think of, Like they
do not look at that act and go.
That clearly is sexualinitiation.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Most responders miss when sorry, most pursuers miss
when a responder actually doesinitiate Right.
What do you mean by that, jen?
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Like a responder may initiate by doing something
subtle, like in the morningputting on the little bit more
sexy pair of underwear that thepursuer may not have even
noticed.
The pursuer may not even seethe responder getting dressed or
undressed, but the responderthemselves went ahead and took
that extra step withundergarment.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, or if the pursuer saw her get dressed, he
may not even recognize thatthose are sexy undergarment.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I mean that one maybe seems a little bit more obvious
.
But it's also things like aresponder sharing feelings and
details about our recentexperience.
I mean, instead of just gettinglost in the mundane of the
evening, the responder wantingto talk more.
Or maybe it's the respondercooking that favorite meal, that
(25:31):
meal that they know you reallylike.
Maybe it's cleaning the kitchenor making the bed or
decluttering the bedroom.
Pursuers are listening to allthat and going what?
How in the world could that beactual initiation?
Sexual initiation.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Most of us pursuers would have never considered
those and we certainly wouldnever use those techniques as
initiation Right.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
But look, if you have your eyes open.
Sometimes that's ways so thatthey can more easily move into a
sexual mood up the bedroom.
It's because they areoftentimes looking to create
emotional and physical space.
They are decluttering in orderto make space emotionally for
(26:38):
the connection that they wouldlike to have happen.
You know, responders are justgenerally going to be more
subtle when it comes to theirinitiation.
Subtle when it comes to theirinitiation, like a responder
might give a simple kiss or alittle bit longer of a hug or a
physical touch.
That's not just completely norm, but still subtle as a way to
(27:02):
signal physical desire.
That's not an overt like hey,here I am hanging from the
chandelier and nothing, but youknow, a tiny little thong.
That's not maybe going tohappen.
You know it may also look likean invitation to watch a sappy
rom-com together or, evenscarier, an invitation to a
(27:24):
distraction-free dinner with anin-depth conversation.
Because those are ways ofinitiating emotional connection
that a responder needs to be abridge into physical connection
Right right Now.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Of course, pursuers, just you know, put the brakes on
.
Sometimes a kiss is just a kiss, so it is important to just be
careful and not over interpretyour responders behaviors and
their actions in that moment,but I think it's probably fair
to realize that some parts ofyour sexual relationship are in
(28:03):
fact initiated by, and they arein fact fueled by your
responders' interests and fueledby their passions.
So I think maybe summarizingthis point is that, pursuers,
you are probably not the onlyone doing the work here, even if
(28:23):
you feel like it.
And ultimately, though, even ifyou were the only one doing the
work here, initiating is yourjob.
So stop complaining about it.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Maybe that's the simple way to stay in there I
would.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
I say that a little bit tongue in cheek.
If it's a if it's bothering you, then you need to have a
conversation about it, butultimately it's your job.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Right, and so, maybe, kind of ending this episode,
let's kind of land on whatshould responders be doing,
because sometimes the best wayto respond is actually by
initiating.
So, responders, you're not offthe hook.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
That's right.
So if your pursuer comes to youand says, hey, I wish you would
initiate more, ok, let's have aconversation about that.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
You can't just say well, Matt and Jen said I don't
have to, that's right.
No, we did not.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
It's not your responsibility, but you do have
a role here.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Here's why when a responder initiates, it signals
to the pursuer that theresponder values connection in
this way, even though theresponder is not naturally
inclined to seek connection inthat way.
So you are literally saying toyour pursuer I see you Right, I
do want you, I value you.
(29:39):
Yes, I am thankful for you, Iam grateful for you it says all
of that when you are willing toalso initiate.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
So what you're saying is sometimes the best way to
respond is by pursuing yeah.
That seems counterintuitive andit is.
Generally the pressure on therelationship dynamic is greatly
de-escalated when a responder iswilling to initiate yeah,
Because the pursuer is going tofeel so much less anxious about
(30:08):
the relationship.
They're going to know thattheir responsive spouse is
actually connected and engagedand then the pursuer is going to
be so much less motivated byfear, motivated by that
desperate sense of scarcity.
They can be finally motivatedby fullness and this is going to
lead to much fewer of thesepressure filled tactics to try
(30:33):
to initiate connections.
If they feel like you'reinvested, if they feel like
you're there, if they feel likeyou're interested, then they're
going to feel like they have touse less pressure techniques to
get you to engage.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Right.
So if you, as a responder, feellike all your pursuer ever does
is try and pressure you, theanswer to that is not keep
taking five steps backwards.
The answer is actually walktowards your pursuer.
Yeah, close that gap byinitiating.
That will calm down yourpursuer Because again it says I
(31:07):
see you.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
You know, another benefit of the responder
initiating the connection isthat the responder gets to
control the particular way theconnection is made.
And for us responders we lovecontrol Responders like control
we do we like control, and sowhen you initiate, while that
might seem like you're steppingoutside of your comfort zone,
(31:32):
you actually can have morecontrol over the timing, the
preparation that you would liketo put into it.
You can have more control overthe method and the means of how
you navigate into that place ofvulnerability.
So if you don't like theinitiation to come about in a
whoa I didn't see that comingkind of way well, sometimes the
(31:55):
answer is okay.
So how can I initiate this in acontrolled environment to where
I don't initially feel thatsense of oh, whoa?
Speaker 1 (32:05):
you want what, when, where.
For example, you can choose thetopic of conversation.
You might not get to decide howthe conversation goes exactly,
but if you start theconversation you get to control
what that initial topic is.
If you want to initiate datenight and you schedule it, then
guess what.
(32:25):
You get to choose what you'redoing, when you're doing it, how
you're doing it, what time, howlong you get to choose what
you're doing, when you're doingit, how you're doing it, what
time, how long you get to choosethat activity.
And if you choose the sexualconnection when or how or the
time place, whatever it might bethen guess what.
Now you get to step intosomething with much less anxiety
(32:49):
about what is next and what iscoming.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Just remember that pursuers tend to need very
direct communication.
So responders are subtle.
Pursuers need directcommunication.
That means that you must makespecific bids for connection.
So be blunt, let your pursuerknow hey, I'm initiating.
(33:12):
Feel empowered to establishthough your boundaries and
clearly communicate what you areoffering.
The more you communicate aboutit, the better it will be for
both of you Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
And I think the other thing is that sometimes
responders maybe think too bigabout this, because sometimes
the only initiation that isnecessary for a responder
sometimes is for them just tosimply offer an invitation.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
I think this is a huge point, because us
responders we think that ifwe're going to initiate, we have
to do it exactly like a pursuerwould do it.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
And you have to have thought through all the details.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Exactly, specifically in the realms of sexual pursuit
and response, we think, okay,how would my sexual pursuer
initiate this?
I've got to be that.
Well, no, you don't, becausethat statement you just made an
invitation is initiation.
Your pursuer will likely bemore than willing to take care
(34:20):
of all the details if they feelinvited, yes, and that chance of
rejection then is low andyou've created safety.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Absolutely.
That is such an important pointbecause that is mostly what
pursuers are worried about isbeing rejected.
If you remove the risk ofrejection, pursuers are often
going to take over and they willtake care of all of the details
.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Right, so you don't want to plan the entire night.
But you could make a statementlike I'm willing to be seduced
tonight.
Now, it's a challenge.
You've offered an invitation.
That is initiation, but yourpursuer can do the planning if
that's what you don't want to do.
So you can make statements likewill you plan a sexy date night
(35:06):
for us?
Right, you know that's ways toinvite, but not have to be the
one making all the decisionsthat you may be, as a responder,
aren't naturally inclined tomake.
You make statements like canyou help me get the kids in bed
so that we can have some alonetime tonight?
You are saying I see you, Iwant connection with you.
(35:29):
Your pursuer is going to belike gotcha.
Yeah, I can figure this out.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
The pursuers are more than happy to be the creative
ones and to get things done, aslong as the risk of rejection is
low.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
So, of course, relationships are complicated,
multi-layered, right the line is, your individual results may
vary, that's right.
But, responders, if you'll makethe effort to initiate once in
a while, push against your owncomfort zone, I know that the
results will often be much morefavorable for both of you.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
For sure, this goes both ways.
And again we're asking pursuersto find some contentment.
We're asking responders to stepoutside your comfort zone a
little bit, so the answer whoinitiates?
Speaker 2 (36:19):
You both do.
If you want more information,if you like this topic and you
haven't heard us speak moreabout this, we invite you to
listen to episode 141, betterPursuit and Initiation.
Episode 96, responders Learningto Initiate, and way back in
the beginning when we werepodcast newbies.
Episode 17, initiating Sex Justother episodes where we have
(36:44):
delved into the topic ofinitiation.
All right, matt, give us ourwrap up.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Whether it's sexual connection or any other aspect
of your relationship.
If you sense a lack of it inyour relationship, it's up to
you to initiate what is missing.
If you feel like you are theonly one initiating, guess what?
Keep striving, but recognizewith gratitude that your spouse
(37:10):
may actually be contributing awhole lot more to your sexual
and emotional relationship thanwhat you immediately recognize.
Responders, you can learn toinitiate in ways that are
comfortable for you, and thiseffort will speak volumes of
love to your pursuer.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Now it's time to grab your spouse and your Bible and
head to your kitchen table tohave the conversation about who
is initiating sex in yourrelationship, Whether you are a
sexual pursuer or a responder.
What are you going to do tomake sure that neither of you
feel neglected or pressured?
Speaker 1 (37:47):
We would love to hear your feedback on this episode.
Contact us by emailing podcastat intimatecovenantcom or to
submit an anonymous question orany feedback.
You can go to our website,intimatecovenantcom.
Slash podcast.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Thanks to all of you for listening, subscribing,
rating and sharing the podcast.
We're truly humbled by all yourencouragement and support.
Thanks especially to ourPatreon subscribers for coming
alongside us in a very real way.
If Intimate Covenant hasblessed your marriage, we'd love
to have you join us too.
Subscribe at Patreoncom.
(38:21):
Slash intimate covenant.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Until next time, keep striving and don't settle.
Hey, Jen want to talk about initiating sex.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Let me stop this before you get started.
Great.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
In this episode we're talking about what it feels
like when one spouse is doingall the initiation.
Let's do it.
Welcome friends.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome.
Thanks for joining us on theIntimate Covenant podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Hey, we're Matt and Jen and we are talking about
intimate relationships.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
We're talking about we're talking about all the
things.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Covenant marriage.
We're talking about great sexand, specifically today we're
talking about a question that weget all the time yes, whether
it's writing into the podcast,whether it is at live events or
even personal emails that we getthat's right, and it often
comes in the form of a complaint.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yes, very much so Some sort of variation of how
can I get often my wife toinitiate sex more?
Yeah, or we hear something likeI really wish my spouse would
initiate sex more often.
If I didn't initiate sex, itwould never happen.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Oh, yes, exactly.
Or sometimes a variation onthat theme is something like
well, my spouse used to initiatesex, Now they never even seem
to think about it.
Or maybe just a more broad andcurious kind of question,
genuinely curious kind ofquestion, like whose job is it
to be initiating sex?
Is it the husband's job?
(01:34):
Is it always the sexualpursuer's job?
Whose job is it?
And you know, to be fair, youngcouples often struggle with
settling into sexual routinesand this comfortable cadence of
sexual frequency.
And so, granted, young couples,new couples, are going to
(01:55):
struggle with just knowing howis this supposed to work.
What is a comfortable cadenceof frequency?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Right, and that's a normal question.
What is a comfortable cadenceof frequency?
Right, and that's a normalquestion?
I mean you know they'restruggling against, like this
idea of unrealistic expectations, of being surprised or
disappointed by their spouse'sdifference in spontaneity and
their desire or libido.
I mean, that's often just aplace we're at as a young
(02:24):
married couple.
But it's not just the youngcouples that are struggling with
this, because us old couplesotherwise, known as experienced
couples, let's say mature.
We're struggling with this tooright, and often this comes
about when life forces changesin our routine.
So we may have settled into arole and suddenly find ourselves
(02:47):
not quite living that role.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Absolutely.
It's something that mightchange the frequency of
initiation in some of thoserelationships can sometimes be
seen as a rejection.
So you had a routine.
It got changed by life, bywhatever circumstances, and now
the your spouse is wondering whythey're being rejected.
Or sometimes they wonder what,why does my spouse not pursue me
(03:13):
like they used to pursue me?
And so this, this kind ofspirals then into uncertainty.
It spirals into tension,resentment, especially if these
roles and responsibilities arenot being talked about, if we
just slide into a new normalquote, unquote and there are
(03:35):
unresolved questions about thestatus of the relationship.
That leads to a lot ofuncertainty.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
So, whether you're a young couple trying to figure
this out or you're an old couplehaving to re-figure it out,
when one spouse, seemingly, isdoing all the initiation, it can
eventually become a burden anda place of bitterness Absolutely
so.
That's kind of what we're goingto tackle on the podcast on
today's episode.
(04:00):
But before we get to that, someannouncements.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
We do have some exciting announcements, the
first being that preparation forthe retreat continues.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
It definitely continues, as in taking up all
of Matt and Jen's free time.
That's all right, we love it.
This year we have our biggestcrowd ever, completely sold out,
plus a couple.
We squeezed in even more bodiesand we are so excited for the
retreat.
That's September 19th throughthe 21st and it's coming, so all
(04:34):
of you that have signed up tojoin us just know that we are
working overtime to make it anamazing retreat.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
And if you didn't get in this time, stay tuned, stay
tuned, we'll have someannouncements we're going.
Didn't get in this time, staytuned, stay tuned, we'll have
some announcements.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
We're going to be doing it again.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
In the next couple of months we'll have some
announcements about times anddates and locations and all that
.
We also, speaking of ourwebsite, have a couple of
e-courses for sale.
We've developed these and wereally have not done a good job
of promoting them.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
We're not very good at promoting ourselves most days
, so, yeah, it's time for us topromote our e-courses, because I
think we worked hard on theseand did a pretty good job with
them.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
I know we worked hard on them.
We have two specifically.
The first one is called whatdoes sex mean to my spouse?
I mean, if you've been marriedfor more than five minutes, you
recognize that you and yourspouse see sex differently.
Right, you are looking for verydifferent things about sex and
(05:36):
you view it differently.
So our intention with thise-course is to challenge you and
your spouse to think about yoursexual relationship in ways
that maybe you have notconsidered before, and even to
think about your spouse'ssexuality in a way that you have
not considered before.
Hopefully, what we've developedis a way to challenge some of
(05:58):
your thinking and, moreimportantly, to initiate a
conversation.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Exactly, and that's, I think, my favorite thing about
our e-course is it's all builtaround.
Both of them are built aroundinitiating and challenging you
to some good conversations, andso with both of our e-courses we
have video portions and then wealso have kind of a worksheet
that you use as you work yourway through the e-course, so
(06:25):
hopefully it will start theconversations and bring
something good to your marriage.
So our other e-course, ournewest one, is called Make
Better Connections.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
It's about those times.
I mean we all suffer occasionsin our relationships when our
attempts to connect with eachother are ignored or they are
rejected.
This course is going to helpyou make better connections in
your marriage, both emotionallyand sexually.
It is a way to help you learnto pursue and to respond to your
(07:03):
spouse with some passionate andirresistible vulnerability.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Irresistible vulnerability.
If only I could say that well.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Good thing we don't have to talk much for this.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
So y'all should check out our e-courses.
You can find them by going tointimatecovenantcom slash
courses and you will see themfor sale there.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yep, if you have trouble finding them, email us
or send us a message and we'llbe glad to get you in touch with
that.
But I'll link those two coursesin our show notes so that you
have a direct way to find them.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
And before we get into the rest of the podcast,
just one other thing is that wedid want to let you all know
that we have started bookingdates for marriage days in 2025.
So we're starting to open upour calendar and if you are
interested in bringing IntimateCovenant into your community
(07:56):
sometime in the year 2025, nowis the time to reach out.
We will have some limited daysin 2025.
We have some big thingshappening in our personal lives
in 2025, but we will have timefor some good marriage days.
It is one of the favoritethings we do with.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Intimate.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Covenant, getting to travel and meet you guys
face-to-face and spend time on aweekend with you guys.
So we would love to come toyour area, but we would like for
you to book those dates soon.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Let's make that happen.
Give us a call or send us anemail.
We'll be glad to let thathappen.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
All right, Matt.
So today's episode is all aboutwho initiates.
Like we said, it's a bigquestion that a lot of us
struggle with figuring outwithin our marriages.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah, so I mean, let's just give you the answer
from the outset.
Oh, we'll just answer it andwe'll be done, and then you can
decide if you want to listen tothe details or not.
But ultimately, I would say, ina healthy relationship, both of
you should be initiatingconnection in all realms of
intimacy.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Oh, so the answer is everybody listening.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
The answer is E, all of the above.
Now, that said, of course, thisepisode, just like all of our
other podcast episodes, isreally kind of primarily focused
on the sexual aspect of themarriage relationship.
But I do think it's importantfrom time to time, maybe all the
time, to step back and torecognize that sex, of course,
(09:26):
is not the only way that weconnect Right, and so we never
want it to be lost in thepodcast that, while we're
focusing on sex, because of theuniqueness of this venue, that
sex, of course, is not the wholerelationship Exactly, but
sometimes it is an insight intothe relationship and sometimes,
(09:47):
by looking at the sexualrelationship, we learn a whole
lot more about ourselves and welearn about the rest of the
relationship.
But again, in healthyrelationships, both spouses
should be pursuing each otherand both spouses should be
responding to respective bidsfor connection.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Right.
I mean for meaningful andsustained growth to happen in
your marriage, there must beconnection in all realms of your
relationship, and that'semotionally, mentally,
spiritually and physically.
So you're both responsible formaking connections, for seeking
growth in every aspect of yourmarriage.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Now, that said, yes, while you're both responsible,
the pursuer, in whatever realmof intimacy that there is,
whether you are a sexual pursueror whether you are an emotional
pursuer or otherwise, thepursuer is tasked with being the
primary initiator.
So, pursuers, in whatever realm, you Okay, if you are the
(10:58):
pursuer, if this means more toyou, then you are responsible
then for initiating it, andthat's ultimately what a pursuer
is right.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Right.
I mean someone has to initiateright, and the one who values
that particular mode ofconnection well, they have to be
the one willing to riskrejection and make that bid for
connection.
I mean there's no gettingaround this right.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Unless someone makes it happen, it's not going to
happen.
So, sexual pursuers, if youdesire sex, you must pursue it,
you must initiate it.
It is unfair of you as apursuer to resent your spouse
for not providing something thatyou are not pursuing.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Right, and we'll have some more advice for sexual
pursuers here in just a minute.
But I think it's good, matt, tokind of step back and say I
mean, the bottom line is, inwhatever realm you're talking
about, within your marriage, ifyou sense a lack of relationship
, if you sense a lack ofconnection, then it's up to you
(12:05):
to initiate what is missing.
So if you're noticing it, thenyou better be initiating it and
guess what that may mean?
That you became the pursuer forright now in that realm of
connection.
And so maybe you're not bynature a sexual pursuer, but you
(12:25):
notice, hey, we're not havingsex like we should Well guess
what your job is now.
Your job is to pursue thatconnection.
Now you don't have to pursue itin the same way that your
spouse, who's maybe morenaturally a sexual pursuer.
You don't have to pursue it inthe same way they do, but you do
have a responsibility toaddress potential problems in
(12:48):
your relationship when you seethem.
So in that way again, we allare tasked with initiation from
time to time.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Absolutely.
And in addition to that, Iwould say and just remind you
not that you necessarily needreminding, but I think it's
important to point out thatevery relationship is different
and every set of spouses havedifferent relative degrees of
spontaneous sexual desire anddifferent relative degrees of
(13:17):
spontaneous emotional desire,meaning some of you just
naturally desire sexspontaneously more than others
and there are that that may be awide gap in your marriage.
That may be a narrow gap inyour marriage.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Right.
I mean, in some relationships,the pursuer then is the one
who's initiating 90 percent ofthe time, but in other
relationships that pursuer isinitiating like 51 percent of
the time, right, right.
So so thatuer is initiatinglike 51% of the time, right,
right.
So that's what you're meaning.
There can be a wide gap or anarrow gap, but you know your
(13:52):
relationship.
In some relationships, thatrelative level of desire, just
it's going to look different,but you've got to be paying
attention to it.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Absolutely just.
It's going to look different,but you've got to be paying
attention to it.
Absolutely so, sexualresponders even if your spouse
is regularly and frequentlypursuing you guess what?
This doesn't mean that you areoff the hook.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah, Up till now our responders might've been like
ha ha, it's your job.
But no, not really, Because ifone of you is initiating any
form of connection 100% of thetime we're going to challenge
you to say that something is notright.
Now, specifically within thesexual realm, if someone is
initiating sex 100% of the time,we would challenge that sexual
responder in this kind ofrelationship to consider what is
your absolute lack of pursuitcommunicating to your sexual
(14:50):
pursuer, and that'sintentionally or unintentionally
.
If you, as a responder, arenever showing any initiation.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
That is saying something whether you mean it to
or not, yeah, and it may not besaying what you intend to.
It may just be saying you maybe intending to simply say that,
well, I'm happy with thefrequency and quality of our sex
, and so I'm going to let mypursuer keep being the one who's
driving that ship, which isfine.
But if you are never makingeffort to initiate, you may be
(15:23):
telling your pursuer that, well,I'm just not interested.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Well, and I think we see this more easily when it
comes to emotional connection.
So consider what it would meanin a marriage if one spouse
never initiated conversation,like they never ask about how
their spouse's day went, theynever spoke to their spouse
(15:48):
without having to be interruptedfrom their own business.
Like we would say, well, that'sreally unhealthy in that
marriage, right?
What would we think about aspouse who only reluctantly, or
maybe begrudgingly, engaged inconversation, with just one
syllable responses?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yeah, or what if that one spouse never even looked up
from their phone unless theywere asked a direct question?
Speaker 2 (16:10):
So we can see it when it comes to emotional
engagement and conversation, butmaybe you have a little bit
harder time seeing it when itcomes to physical connections
and engagement.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
I think we've bought into the stereotype that well,
you know sexual pursuers and youknow, of course, usually that
is the husband in theserelationships that that's just
their realm, so they'reresponsible for making it all
happen, and so that's justsomething that only husbands
should think about, and wivesare supposed to just sit back
(16:41):
and let it happen to them, andthat's just not how it ought to
be.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
No.
And so, as a sexual responder,male or female, whether it's
your intention or not, if yourarely or never initiate sex,
you may be communicating thatyou're uninterested and even
unattracted to your spouse, andyou need to carefully consider
is that really what you want tobe telling your spouse?
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Right, right, For sure, For sure.
So pursuers, certainly.
Again we started out with thisquestion like well, what if I am
the only one who is initiating?
What do I do with thesefeelings?
When I feel like my spouse isdisengaged, when I feel like my
spouse is not interested, when Ifeel like my spouse never puts
(17:30):
forth the effort to initiate sex, what do I do with those
feelings?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Right, right.
So, as a pursuer, what if I'mthe only one?
Well, I think the first thingwe would say to you is keep up
the good work.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
I know that's hard to hear, but you are doing your
job, you are fulfilling yourrole.
You're taking initiative in avery important part of your
relationship.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah.
What is it that Paul says inGalatians?
Do not grow weary in doing good.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah, and so, regardless of whether or not
your spouse is or isn't fullyliving up to the potential
within their role, you shouldkeep up the good work.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Someone has to be willing to keep their foot on
the pedal, someone has to bewilling to keep initiating and
someone has to be willing tokeep putting in the energy into
this crucial part of yourrelationship.
And if that is just yousometimes, that's just the way
that it is in relationships,that sometimes one of you is
going to be more capable or morewilling to do what needs to be
(18:31):
done.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
I think a lot of times.
We get this question fromspouses who they're strongly the
sexual pursuer and they thinkthat might mean something is
broken in their relationship orwith their spouse.
But if your spouse is generallyresponsive to your pursuit and
they engage with energy, don'ttake that for granted.
(18:53):
Don't think of that as well.
Therefore, something is broken.
Well, no, you actually have ahealthy relationship and
something that many would beenvious of, and so see it for
what it is See the beauty inthat you have a spouse willing
to respond.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
So often, the answer to what we perceive, our
problems in our relationship,really just come down to a
matter of finding contentment.
And so I think, like you saiden, if you, if there is pursuit
and response in your sexualrelationship, then it's
generally probably doing betterthan most other sexual
(19:34):
relationships certainly it'sbetter than it could be.
So finding the place to begrateful that it, at the very
least, there is this dynamic ofpursuit and response.
You know, perhaps things aren'tas great as you would like them
to be, but that's what you lookfor.
The challenge for sexualpursuers most of the time is to
(19:56):
stop fixating on what we don'thave.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
So again, it's about finding contentment right.
So you know, sure, there'sareas in your sexual
relationship that you would liketo grow.
Maybe you would like for yourresponder to be a little bit
more bold and to show someinitiative.
But if you can't learn to becontent with what you have now,
you will never be content, evenif you ever get what you want.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
That is a big statement.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Well, and that's true , no matter who you are, no
matter what you are, no matterwhat you're complaining about in
your relationship, if you can'tfind some contentment where you
are, no matter what you are, nomatter what you're complaining
about in your relationship,right, if you can't find some
contentment where you are now,then you're not going to be.
You're going to have a hardertime finding contentment, even
if you get what you want,because there's always something
more to want.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
There is, and so I think, matt, you're right that
first it's starting with thatrecognition of look what I do
have, but sometimes it's alsoshifting your mindset towards,
as a pursuer, find other ways toget what it is that you're
actually looking for.
Is there only one narrow way toget what you're looking for, or
(21:00):
are there other ways to gettowards your goal?
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, and I think this is where some really deep
introspection is necessary forpursuers, especially pursuers
who may be discontented in someway, because I would venture to
say that you you as a sexualpursuer, even if you're worried
about who's initiating you arelooking for more than just the
(21:24):
physical act of sex.
At least, I hope that you are.
In truth, I think you are.
Sometimes we just don'trecognize it, and so consider
how you might be able to findthings like connection or
validation or companionship,whatever it might be that you
are looking for, whatever it isthat you get from sex, whatever
(21:44):
it is that it would bemeaningful for you if your
spouse were initiating more.
What is it that you are lookingfor and where are some other
places where you could find that?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Right and honestly evaluate, as a sexual pursuer,
whether you're initiatingconnection and realms of
intimacy that are meaningful toyour spouse.
This is another way to framethat right are meaningful to
your spouse.
I mean, this is another way toframe that right.
If I'm so hyper fixated on therealm of connection that I want,
(22:20):
to the degree that I am notgiving in other realms of
intimacy, well, I'm the cause ofthe unhealthiness of my
relationship.
And so you know, if you aren'tbuilding connection, how can you
reasonably expect that yourspouse would be inclined to seek
you, especially sexually?
You know, if you're not willingto put forth the effort to
build connection emotionally,then you should be pointing the
(22:44):
finger at your own self.
I think.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
In other words, your spouse may be wondering why you
are unwilling to initiateemotional connection, and maybe
have a legitimate complaint inthat regard as well.
So this obviously goes bothways, and so that's what we're
trying to get you to look at andto see if you are a sexual
pursuer in this condition.
(23:06):
So again, think about thisquestion what would it mean for
you to have your spouse initiatesex more?
Why is this something that youwant?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And it's not wrong to want that?
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Oh no, absolutely not .
I mean, it's certainly notwrong to want that, but we're
asking you to dig a little bitdeeper and think about why is it
that you want this?
What would it mean to you?
Because if you can answer thatquestion, then you can have a
better conversation with yourspouse about explaining to them
what it would mean, and that's amuch better place to come at a
(23:41):
conversation than just I'munhappy with you.
If you can explain, this wouldmean so much to me if you did
this for me, and this is whythat's a much better place to
motivate than using shame orguilt or judgment as a way to
try to motivate them to give youwhat you want.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Right, and I think it's also important in a lot of
cases for pursuers to recognizethat your responder is
initiating.
You just don't realize it.
Good point Responders are oftenvery quiet with their
initiation and they almostalways initiate in ways that
(24:20):
natural sexual pursuers wouldnever even think of, Like they
do not look at that act and go.
That clearly is sexualinitiation.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Most responders miss when sorry, most pursuers miss
when a responder actually doesinitiate Right.
What do you mean by that, jen?
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Like a responder may initiate by doing something
subtle, like in the morningputting on the little bit more
sexy pair of underwear that thepursuer may not have even
noticed.
The pursuer may not even seethe responder getting dressed or
undressed, but the responderthemselves went ahead and took
that extra step withundergarment.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, or if the pursuer saw her get dressed, he
may not even recognize thatthose are sexy undergarment.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I mean that one maybe seems a little bit more obvious
.
But it's also things like aresponder sharing feelings and
details about our recentexperience.
I mean, instead of just gettinglost in the mundane of the
evening, the responder wantingto talk more.
Or maybe it's the respondercooking that favorite meal, that
(25:31):
meal that they know you reallylike.
Maybe it's cleaning the kitchenor making the bed or
decluttering the bedroom.
Pursuers are listening to allthat and going what?
How in the world could that beactual initiation?
Sexual initiation.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Most of us pursuers would have never considered
those and we certainly wouldnever use those techniques as
initiation Right.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
But look, if you have your eyes open.
Sometimes that's ways so thatthey can more easily move into a
sexual mood up the bedroom.
It's because they areoftentimes looking to create
emotional and physical space.
They are decluttering in orderto make space emotionally for
(26:38):
the connection that they wouldlike to have happen.
You know, responders are justgenerally going to be more
subtle when it comes to theirinitiation.
Subtle when it comes to theirinitiation, like a responder
might give a simple kiss or alittle bit longer of a hug or a
physical touch.
That's not just completely norm, but still subtle as a way to
(27:02):
signal physical desire.
That's not an overt like hey,here I am hanging from the
chandelier and nothing, but youknow, a tiny little thong.
That's not maybe going tohappen.
You know it may also look likean invitation to watch a sappy
rom-com together or, evenscarier, an invitation to a
(27:24):
distraction-free dinner with anin-depth conversation.
Because those are ways ofinitiating emotional connection
that a responder needs to be abridge into physical connection
Right right Now.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Of course, pursuers, just you know, put the brakes on
.
Sometimes a kiss is just a kiss, so it is important to just be
careful and not over interpretyour responders behaviors and
their actions in that moment,but I think it's probably fair
to realize that some parts ofyour sexual relationship are in
(28:03):
fact initiated by, and they arein fact fueled by your
responders' interests and fueledby their passions.
So I think maybe summarizingthis point is that, pursuers,
you are probably not the onlyone doing the work here, even if
(28:23):
you feel like it.
And ultimately, though, even ifyou were the only one doing the
work here, initiating is yourjob.
So stop complaining about it.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Maybe that's the simple way to stay in there I
would.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
I say that a little bit tongue in cheek.
If it's a if it's bothering you, then you need to have a
conversation about it, butultimately it's your job.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Right, and so, maybe, kind of ending this episode,
let's kind of land on whatshould responders be doing,
because sometimes the best wayto respond is actually by
initiating.
So, responders, you're not offthe hook.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
That's right.
So if your pursuer comes to youand says, hey, I wish you would
initiate more, ok, let's have aconversation about that.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
You can't just say well, Matt and Jen said I don't
have to, that's right.
No, we did not.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
It's not your responsibility, but you do have
a role here.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Here's why when a responder initiates, it signals
to the pursuer that theresponder values connection in
this way, even though theresponder is not naturally
inclined to seek connection inthat way.
So you are literally saying toyour pursuer I see you Right, I
do want you, I value you.
(29:39):
Yes, I am thankful for you, Iam grateful for you it says all
of that when you are willing toalso initiate.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
So what you're saying is sometimes the best way to
respond is by pursuing yeah.
That seems counterintuitive andit is.
Generally the pressure on therelationship dynamic is greatly
de-escalated when a responder iswilling to initiate yeah,
Because the pursuer is going tofeel so much less anxious about
(30:08):
the relationship.
They're going to know thattheir responsive spouse is
actually connected and engagedand then the pursuer is going to
be so much less motivated byfear, motivated by that
desperate sense of scarcity.
They can be finally motivatedby fullness and this is going to
lead to much fewer of thesepressure filled tactics to try
(30:33):
to initiate connections.
If they feel like you'reinvested, if they feel like
you're there, if they feel likeyou're interested, then they're
going to feel like they have touse less pressure techniques to
get you to engage.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Right.
So if you, as a responder, feellike all your pursuer ever does
is try and pressure you, theanswer to that is not keep
taking five steps backwards.
The answer is actually walktowards your pursuer.
Yeah, close that gap byinitiating.
That will calm down yourpursuer Because again it says I
(31:07):
see you.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
You know, another benefit of the responder
initiating the connection isthat the responder gets to
control the particular way theconnection is made.
And for us responders we lovecontrol Responders like control
we do we like control, and sowhen you initiate, while that
might seem like you're steppingoutside of your comfort zone,
(31:32):
you actually can have morecontrol over the timing, the
preparation that you would liketo put into it.
You can have more control overthe method and the means of how
you navigate into that place ofvulnerability.
So if you don't like theinitiation to come about in a
whoa I didn't see that comingkind of way well, sometimes the
(31:55):
answer is okay.
So how can I initiate this in acontrolled environment to where
I don't initially feel thatsense of oh, whoa?
Speaker 1 (32:05):
you want what, when, where.
For example, you can choose thetopic of conversation.
You might not get to decide howthe conversation goes exactly,
but if you start theconversation you get to control
what that initial topic is.
If you want to initiate datenight and you schedule it, then
guess what.
(32:25):
You get to choose what you'redoing, when you're doing it, how
you're doing it, what time, howlong you get to choose what
you're doing, when you're doingit, how you're doing it, what
time, how long you get to choosethat activity.
And if you choose the sexualconnection when or how or the
time place, whatever it might bethen guess what.
Now you get to step intosomething with much less anxiety
(32:49):
about what is next and what iscoming.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Just remember that pursuers tend to need very
direct communication.
So responders are subtle.
Pursuers need directcommunication.
That means that you must makespecific bids for connection.
So be blunt, let your pursuerknow hey, I'm initiating.
(33:12):
Feel empowered to establishthough your boundaries and
clearly communicate what you areoffering.
The more you communicate aboutit, the better it will be for
both of you Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
And I think the other thing is that sometimes
responders maybe think too bigabout this, because sometimes
the only initiation that isnecessary for a responder
sometimes is for them just tosimply offer an invitation.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
I think this is a huge point, because us
responders we think that ifwe're going to initiate, we have
to do it exactly like a pursuerwould do it.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
And you have to have thought through all the details.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Exactly, specifically in the realms of sexual pursuit
and response, we think, okay,how would my sexual pursuer
initiate this?
I've got to be that.
Well, no, you don't, becausethat statement you just made an
invitation is initiation.
Your pursuer will likely bemore than willing to take care
(34:20):
of all the details if they feelinvited, yes, and that chance of
rejection then is low andyou've created safety.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Absolutely.
That is such an important pointbecause that is mostly what
pursuers are worried about isbeing rejected.
If you remove the risk ofrejection, pursuers are often
going to take over and they willtake care of all of the details
.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Right, so you don't want to plan the entire night.
But you could make a statementlike I'm willing to be seduced
tonight.
Now, it's a challenge.
You've offered an invitation.
That is initiation, but yourpursuer can do the planning if
that's what you don't want to do.
So you can make statements likewill you plan a sexy date night
(35:06):
for us?
Right, you know that's ways toinvite, but not have to be the
one making all the decisionsthat you may be, as a responder,
aren't naturally inclined tomake.
You make statements like canyou help me get the kids in bed
so that we can have some alonetime tonight?
You are saying I see you, Iwant connection with you.
(35:29):
Your pursuer is going to belike gotcha.
Yeah, I can figure this out.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
The pursuers are more than happy to be the creative
ones and to get things done, aslong as the risk of rejection is
low.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
So, of course, relationships are complicated,
multi-layered, right the line is, your individual results may
vary, that's right.
But, responders, if you'll makethe effort to initiate once in
a while, push against your owncomfort zone, I know that the
results will often be much morefavorable for both of you.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
For sure, this goes both ways.
And again we're asking pursuersto find some contentment.
We're asking responders to stepoutside your comfort zone a
little bit, so the answer whoinitiates?
Speaker 2 (36:19):
You both do.
If you want more information,if you like this topic and you
haven't heard us speak moreabout this, we invite you to
listen to episode 141, betterPursuit and Initiation.
Episode 96, responders Learningto Initiate, and way back in
the beginning when we werepodcast newbies.
Episode 17, initiating Sex Justother episodes where we have
(36:44):
delved into the topic ofinitiation.
All right, matt, give us ourwrap up.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Whether it's sexual connection or any other aspect
of your relationship.
If you sense a lack of it inyour relationship, it's up to
you to initiate what is missing.
If you feel like you are theonly one initiating, guess what?
Keep striving, but recognizewith gratitude that your spouse
(37:10):
may actually be contributing awhole lot more to your sexual
and emotional relationship thanwhat you immediately recognize.
Responders, you can learn toinitiate in ways that are
comfortable for you, and thiseffort will speak volumes of
love to your pursuer.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Now it's time to grab your spouse and your Bible and
head to your kitchen table tohave the conversation about who
is initiating sex in yourrelationship, Whether you are a
sexual pursuer or a responder.
What are you going to do tomake sure that neither of you
feel neglected or pressured?
Speaker 1 (37:47):
We would love to hear your feedback on this episode.
Contact us by emailing podcastat intimatecovenantcom or to
submit an anonymous question orany feedback.
You can go to our website,intimatecovenantcom.
Slash podcast.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Thanks to all of you for listening, subscribing,
rating and sharing the podcast.
We're truly humbled by all yourencouragement and support.
Thanks especially to ourPatreon subscribers for coming
alongside us in a very real way.
If Intimate Covenant hasblessed your marriage, we'd love
to have you join us too.
Subscribe at Patreoncom.
(38:21):
Slash intimate covenant.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Until next time, keep striving and don't settle.
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