July 29, 2025 • 42 mins
ASSILE TOUFAILY Talks EURO 2025, France, Aitana Bonmatí, and NWSL
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Hello. OK, welcome to Into the Channel
podcast part mail about women's football.
I'm your host, Dean de Suspetus,and today we're joined by a very
special guest who will be introduced by my Co host, Mr.
Grant Angle. What's up, man?
Buddy, I'm feeling fantastic. And that is because our guest
today is a PhD candidate, a freelance journalist and editor,
(00:24):
as well as a football consultantextraordinaire.
She's currently working with Football Co as an editor at
Indavisa, where she helped launch the very first Arabic
platform solely dedicated to women's football.
She's also a former midfielder for Lebanon's women's national
team, and she has written in Sharpie as into the channels
starting #10 forevermore. She is an advocate.
(00:47):
She is a powerhouse. She is our friend.
It's an honor and a privilege towelcome back to the program a
CO2 Filey. Hey guys, thank you so much for
this introduction. Like I'm I'm shy now.
So thank you so much for for your nice words Grant of.
Course you deserve it pal all. Right, let's see, you'll shake
it off. Let's go, let's talk some
(01:08):
football. Just joking.
Very, very happy to have you back.
Well, obviously we're just coming up to Euros, so that that
feels like a good starting point.
It's going to, I have a lot I want to talk to you about
specifically, but the Euro final, we've had a couple days
to kind of decompress from it. What do you feel like are going
(01:28):
to be your 123 biggest takeover?I don't know what are you going
to take away from the final. From the final.
We'll get to France soon. We get to France soon.
Like I, I wrote, I wrote a tweetabout it that I felt I felt like
the match was divided into two halves.
The first half was kind of boring, or maybe they because
(01:51):
the two teams were very scared of trying to keep their
defensive composure. And then the second-half and the
extra time we had the completelyother different game.
But what I'm like taking from this final is that Spain had to
finish it very early on because they had the lead.
They missed a few very big chances with Caldente, with
(02:13):
Ettenia. And you can't, you can't, you
can't put yourself in danger against an English side who who
loves to like dominate in the last 20 minutes and press.
And this is what happened. So this is what I take from
technical point of view. I really thought Spain was going
to win. But this English, I don't know
if it's a passion or if it's just this dominance or the depth
(02:36):
in the squad or in the bench gave England this this lead
second. It shows that a coach can have a
very big impact. Because if you want to compare
this Spanish side from Jorge Vilda's time, even though I'm
not a very big fan of Jorge Vilda to what Monte Tommy is
doing now, you can see the very big difference.
(02:56):
Like we used to talk about Spainfor a few 2-3 years as the
biggest powerhouse on women's football and now like we feel
like other nations, especially England, even Germany managed to
put them in a uncomfortable position.
Tommy isn't, isn't bringing, bringing us the same image that
(03:17):
we have like this dominant Spanish side.
So and I just read somewhere that the the federation has 100%
trust in Tommy. So I'm not very happy with this
decision for the Spanish side. And lastly, I'm just happy to
see if it's full stadium. I think we had 29 games out of
32 or 31 with a full stadium. The final, the fact that we had
(03:40):
the two biggest nations in Europe with the biggest women's
football fan bases, I loved it. Like it felt like this cherry on
top or a great tournament organized by Switzerland who
performed like managed to put ona show throughout the
tournament. Yeah, I think that's a, that's a
great point because I, I know there was, I don't know if it
(04:02):
was like, I don't know, fear, maybe fear is a little too
strong, but Switzerland's not a nation with like a super rich
footballing history. So I know people were kind of
thinking about like what those crowds were going to look like.
And you're totally right. I mean, the crowds like blew
people away right away. The, the atmosphere, Germany's
(04:22):
fans came out. A lot of French, French fans
came out as well. It felt like a big tournament
the whole time. I want to go back to what you
were talking about with with Spain and Monsa Tomei and kind
of like the changes. How much of that, how much of
that do you think is just, and maybe this is different in
women's football compared to men's football, especially like
(04:45):
as things progress, but how muchof that is just, it's really
hard to dominate for several years on end?
Like you think about like in men's football, you had the
Spanish side who won the Euro, the World Cup and the Euro
back-to-back to back. We we've seen Spain be
absolutely dominant after winning that World Cup.
Like, is it just too high of an expectation to have to expect
(05:10):
Spain to continue a run of dominance like that over three
years? The thing is if you look at the
squads, Spain didn't have much changes in the two squads like
we have like the core, the core is still there.
Like you still have Bon Marti, you had Potayas who had an
excellent start of the EUR and this is one of one of my
favorite things out of this EUR that we're finally having or
(05:33):
getting back. Alexa, like pre ACL injury Patri
is here, like many of these players are still here.
England was also managed to to keep most of their key players,
even though we didn't have Mini Bright and Mary Herbes.
But like, if you want to talk from a dominance point of view,
it shows that women's football is on like on the rise.
(05:55):
And it's not just about the spectators filling the stadiums.
It's about players becoming better from a tactical point of
view, technical point of view, physically.
Because I remember the US women's national team used to
dominate the world in Europe. German used to dominate Europe.
They, they won way too many European titles in a row.
(06:16):
Olympic Lione used to dominate the Champions League club level.
So we used to have these periodsin women's football where one
nation was able to dominate because they had two 3-4 better
players than the other nations. They just needed one or two
stars. We've seen lately that even a
team like Italy can can compete because they have this structure
(06:41):
or the squad where you don't have one star.
Because if you look at the Italian squad for non women
super fans, they most certainly,certainly won't recognize any
players. While if you look at the French
squad, some will recognize Karl.Shall we Katoto like some of
these icons. So it shows that Italy knew that
they didn't have the best squad.They're not the favourites.
(07:03):
They might be underdogs or consider themselves underdogs,
but they were a solid compact team.
And this is this shows the stuffthe the development.
And one last point, quick point is that the different
development of the goalkeeping position.
Because I personally, whenever Iused to have the baits with
(07:24):
people around women's football, the first argument they used to
throw at me is how bad goalkeepers are.
You have to make the goals smaller for the women.
I don't know what. And then when you when you see
when you see saves like and Kathleen Berger save, when you
see a Catacols double save and the last minute against Germany
and you don't see the way they're playing with their feet.
(07:46):
It shows that all you need is time not only for the game to
become a better, to have a better ecosystem sociologically,
economically, etcetera, etcetera, but also from a purely
football point of view, year after year it would be hard for
one nation to dominate. Yeah, that that's a great point
of steel. And I think it makes me think a
couple things. I think Spain was maybe so
(08:08):
surprising in 2023 and like theyeven had less players because
they had the, the players like protesting.
They were so surprising and and so dominant in spots that I
think all of us were just like, Oh my God, I guess Spain is just
unbeatable now and nobody's going to beat them.
And I totally agree with you because there were spots in this
tournament where Germany had less talented players, whether
through injury or red cards. And it seemed like as the
(08:29):
tournament progressed, they, they played better even with
less talent, less players. And we, I think in the entire
tournament, we saw the talent not necessarily dictate the
outcome. You know, whether it's teams
like Denmark that had like real professional big players that
play for huge teams not really able to put it together or
Italy, I think is a great example.
On the flip side, which kind of leads to it's, it's not the
(08:54):
smoothest segue, but I want to talk about France.
Obviously some real highs, real lows for the French team.
I want to hear from you. What was the experience like
tracking this team peak? You know, you beat England, what
that what the vibes are like. And then out toward the end, you
know, did did France exit the tournament with some enthusiasm
(09:15):
Or, you know, were the vibes a little sour?
Like, first of all, I just want to like have one word put out
there for this French. I don't know, I can't even find
the words like like this French adventure at the Euros is roller
coaster. Yeah, there we go.
I, I swear roller coaster because and I, I, I don't want
(09:37):
to like go back a month, a monthago because we don't like, we
were not going to go back that much.
But look, we have to start talking about this team.
Ever since Luhom Bonadini took charge of the team after after
the Olympics, because since thenLuhom Bonadi tried to implement
his method. We felt like he's he had
(09:57):
something else that Verona wasn't showing.
He he flew to the US where he spent a few weeks to watch the
players over there. He was flying from one country
to the other. So he was putting this effort
into bringing something new to the table, maybe like giving
another opportunity to Malvin Malach with Manchester United.
So he he brought something the the results, the new Nations
(10:21):
League were good. So we're like, OK, but then
because if you want to talk about the EUR, you have to talk
about what happened before making such a decision 5 weeks
prior to the tournament, leaving3 mega experienced players aside
is is shocking and it's kind of the first wrong step towards
(10:43):
doing what you want to do. Because I understand that he
wants to build for the future, but you could, you could have
built it right now, like on the 1st of August.
So start now. Why did you start 5 weeks before
the the EUR? And Lindsay Heaps, Lindsay
Horan, Lindsay Heaps said at an interview that when Giovanni was
putting the effort day in, day out with Lyon, because she was
preparing for the EUR, because every football player focuses on
(11:06):
one tournament and prepares throughout the season for this
tournament. I understand that Eugenie
Lesammer wasn't giving as much as she used to before.
But also if you look at the reasoning behind it is that he
wants to rely on on other players or younger players.
And if you look at his attack, Ijust have the names right in
(11:27):
front. Katoto, Gianni, Matteo and the
Fincas Carino are the very like famous French names.
We knew that they're going to bethere.
So then we had two more spots, the first one for Melvin
Mallard, OK, reasonable, she dida good season and was between
her and Vicky Bishop from Leon and the other was Kerry Gaggle.
Gaggle played 25 minutes throughout the tournament.
(11:50):
It's great for Gaggle because it's her first international big
tournament. She's going to get this, this
experience of being at Clarefontaine, travelling with
the team, discovering this high level football.
But playing her 25 minutes against Wales and not bringing
her at all in the other games, like three other games, shows
that most probably you don't have faith in her or faith in
(12:12):
her being able to impact such big games.
So why not offer Gaga chance after the EUR and bring Ogeni
in? Because Ogeni could have helped
you 5-10 minutes per game. So that's where the issue
started with me. I had a lot of people disagree,
saying that he's right, he has to rebuild.
I just I didn't like the timing.I thought he could have waited a
(12:33):
bit right after the EUR. That's my opinion.
Yeah, the the EUR game I was happy.
Great open opener. The match against Wales was
great. Excellent match against the
Netherlands with their fingers. Kahima putting on the the level
we know, the performance we know.
Then the Germany team game game and you felt like you had the
(12:57):
most amateur French side ever since I don't know how many
years. And like that they gave you like
we knew that we had a very hard chance with the group of death.
They gave you this boost and confidence that we might
actually make it to 0 at least play Spain in the semi finals
and then disappointment again. I'm still angry, I think, I
(13:18):
think you can see it. I'm still angry.
I'm still disappointed because like you can't have two very
different faces like from the group stage, the Germany much?
They were two different sides ofFrance.
Yeah, I I totally agree. And going to the the Wendy Renar
point, I mean Wendy Renar, Eugenie Laissemer, Kenzo Dali
(13:38):
being left off the squad, there was something that was being
said during the broadcast here in America.
I'm guessing it probably was bouncing around over in in
France too, where I don't. I don't know if it was an exact
quote from Bonadie or it was just like the the idea, but it
was this narrative of well, theydidn't win a trophy with Wendy
(14:00):
Renard and Eugenie Laissez, so why not try something different?
But to your point, well, first of all, I mean, I know when Dino
and I talked about it, there's no football team ever that
wouldn't be better with Wendy Renar on it.
There's just full stop the the no team exists that would not be
better with her in the squad. But but secondly, when you talk
(14:21):
about the difference in the performance from the England
match and the group stage to just having a leg up, you know,
playing with A1 player advantageagainst Germany and not being
able to get across the finish line, there's no way that people
couldn't convince me that Renar and Lisa Mare and possibly Kenza
Dali would not. Their veteran leadership would
not help in that situation. Yeah, yeah.
(14:45):
The thing is football is a sportof subjectivity, so you can have
an opinion of your own and others would disagree.
That's normal. But watching the game and I
watched it again like 2 days later I watched it and I tried
to see if Germany were too good defensively or France was
struggling to find the. It's both, but it's mainly
(15:07):
France because if you look at the match and I tweeted about it
and this is my problem ever eversince Sonia Bo Pastor stays with
OL, is that this whole France system or generation is based on
the ball passing through the middle playing to Selma Pasha on
this or the side who crosses theworld.
You do it once, twice, 3 * 10 times.
(15:29):
If it's not working, it's not gonna work.
You have the German players who they can literally kill you
physically and then you have Clara Matteo in the in the box.
Like what will Clara Matteo do? What will Sonji Batimao do there
physically? Like there's there's years and
years behind, like physically there and at some point whenever
Selma Basha was crossing, you could also feel like she's
(15:51):
crossing, but there's no one in the box.
So maybe one ball from Wendy Hona would have at least saved
France or like gave France 1 hope of, I don't know, an
opportunity, a chance, a crossbar, maybe a goal.
You can never know. And from from a leadership point
of view, in my opinion, if I don't know if you if you heard
(16:13):
about it, but if Hona was there,there's no way Alice at least
some bot would have taken the the size of penalty.
And Selma Bosch are saying that she didn't take hers because she
she's taking more responsibility.
Like where on earth do you take responsibility by not taking a
penalty? That's what she said.
(16:33):
She said that since she's one ofthe leaders of the team, she let
Alice shut because she's responsible.
Like it's the other way around. You have to take up or like be
responsible or a leader and takeone of the shots.
So if you had Wendy Ronald therefirst, she was she was going to
shoot one of them. Second, such.
(16:54):
I don't have to say it, but you can't convince me that you
weren't afraid of shooting because Selma.
Selma missed the last shot against Australia and at the
World Cup. It's definitely this.
But these these details, these extra things would have
definitely helped. But again, many people will tell
you she didn't help us in the World Cup in Talos at the
(17:15):
Olympics, didn't help us at the 2019 World Cup at home soil.
But she's it's not a individual sport.
When Giovannach at the 2019 Euros World Cup scored the
scored two goals, gave France the the win, she did her part.
It's a whole system that wasn't working.
And, you know, it doesn't help. And obviously we're here in
America, it doesn't help when you run into the 2019 US women's
(17:39):
national team, who might be the greatest team of all time.
When you look up and down that roster, of course, you know, an
American guy has to has to throwthat out there.
But yeah, and just the the renar, the talk around Renar
just seemed patently ridiculous to me.
Yeah. And I just want to add something
like at some point I was like, OK, I have like, at some point,
(18:01):
even if even if you're a journalist, you have to have a
subjective side. Like this is normal because you
grew up watching a player, A-Team, whatever.
But at the same time I tried to be as objective as possible
saying OK Janice, Janina Summersdecision was reasonable, I might
accept Wendy Renard's decision, I might say OK but not taking
(18:24):
Kenza Dolly who was having an excellent NWSL season and I was
waking up at 2:00 and 3:00 AM France time to watch her and
Delphine because now I can't notwatch.
These are two of my favorite alltime player and and Kenza.
Kenza was dominating the every single match in the midfield.
How can you not take her again? Don't put her as a starter, but
(18:46):
don't convince me that she can'tbring bring something up in the
last 15 minutes. She can't add something and she
kind of have has this technical touch as a playmaker that you
might need to create some chances because if you like look
at Francis midfield, Sakina is now a midfielder.
She's she's a left back. Amel Masri.
(19:08):
I would have taken cancer and left Amel at home because cancer
played more minutes to see them than Amel.
See if he's taking if he's he's talking purely about the
performance part of you. Grazge, Yoho, Toiletti, Orion,
they all have the same profile, this physical profile.
A lot of duels like you don't have this playmate.
(19:29):
I'm I'm, I'm actually waiting toto listen or to hear what Kenza
wants to say or has to say because I I she said that she's
going to talk after the EUR. But how can you leave such
players at home? And you know that you have a
group of death and like your your reasoning is the age.
(19:50):
Look at Lucy Browns, look at look at Girelli from Italy.
Look at all these experience better than players like this is
the international, yeah. It could go way up in age.
We, I think we actually wait forthese tournaments to see these
players because this is what they need.
This is what they strive for. Like let her, let her take her
(20:12):
whatever she wants to do. Stop playing football right
after the EUR but give her the opportunity to play for France.
See. There's been a lot of talk this
NWL season just about the mileage that Kenzie Dali is is
running in the league. She's just basically outrunning
everybody and is a real engine for that San Diego offense.
And I think your point about allright, ball in the middle, Bosch
(20:35):
on the left cross in let's see what happens.
Kenzie Dali's a great a great player to mix that up.
You know, even get a start here,come in half an hour there and
it's it's it's wild because thisis definitely a new Kenzie Dali
in the NWSL that not used to seeing.
So I think I think form wise, conditioning wise, that one
(20:57):
Wendy Renar is a is a massive mess up.
I agree with you on Lesselmeier,but Dolly, I think is is
probably just as bad. You could even you can maybe
even make an argument that's a smidge worse than than leaving
Renar off. But where does France go from
here? Did did you see any young
players? Did you see anything hopeful
that that you're like, OK, got alittle something that that we're
excited about or still sore? But The thing is like Lohan Bon
(21:22):
and he built his entire analysisof the fact that he wants to
build for the future. And then we had a journalist
analyse the squad. Most of these players were
present at the Olympics or at the at the last World Cup.
So he didn't really bring in newplayers.
Like if you put aside Kelly Gaga, who played 20 minutes, 25
(21:44):
minutes against Wales, he he brought up new players and
defence like Lubuga Meluin and my favorite Alice Sombat because
Alice had to cover for the absence of Wendy, but the
absence of Guy Jaan Bog as well.Other than that, I don't really
see how he's building for the future.
Because if you want to build forthe future, you have to do like
(22:05):
Spain, who brought Lopez, Vicki Lopez, or you have to do like
England, who brought Michela Jimanc and scored two decisive
goals. So if you really want to build
for the future, you have to start calling up the likes of
Cassia Busi, the likes of MyleneMendy, What's her, what's her
(22:28):
name? Lunari Badera, the striker who
signed with Chelsea, Leanna Joseph.
So these are the youngsters who you have to build your future
on. You can't bring in someone who's
25 years old, as in Menfil Malafand say that you're building for
the future. That's just an excuse to say
that you want to leave these players out.
That's my opinion. So where do we go from here?
(22:48):
He said that this Euros is a preparation for the World Cup.
I've never heard a coach say that he's going to sacrifice a
major tournament for another, but he's sacrificed the EUR for
the World Cup. Let me guess, he said that
after. No, no, no, no.
Before, before he said that. Oh, really?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pure chaotic management.
(23:09):
Yeah, he said that that France isn't the favorite, aren't the
favorites. And this, this yours will be a
test for the future. I know what and with the new USA
squad, with the youngsters coming, Germany who have a lot
of depth, England, Spain, all these players, I don't think
(23:30):
like France is heading into 2027and Brazil as the favourites
without counting Brazil, Colombia and the others up.
So where's the what? What about the future of France?
I'm not hopeful. Like I was waiting for this
tournament to maybe boost my hopes.
Again, I'm not hopeful. We're clearly in a situation
(23:52):
where you need to structure the league and the the entire
football scheme in France beforefocusing on the national team
because England has the best league in the world alongside
the NWSL and like who's winning the EUR?
England. So we need to structure the
entire French league. I got a quick follow up to that,
(24:14):
just because I'm still a little bit in shock about that, that
taking that position before a tournament.
You know, we talk a little bit. I mean, it's it's it's funny
because like, you know, obviously we're in the USA and
you know, I can guarantee you that, hey, this is a warm up
tournament for the next tournament.
It's all right, no worries. Has never been said in for in
the US women's actual teams sphere before any before
(24:37):
anything physical has ever happened.
I don't think they've ever gone out and been like, well,
whatever, we're not going to winthis one.
It's OK, let's see what happens.And yeah, if you're a player, if
you're a Selma Basha or you're aAlice Sunbath or somebody
younger and I'm looking at KellyGaga.
I didn't know she was 26. So that that's another one.
I'm like, wow, this is a real a real head scratcher.
But if you're one of these youngplayers and you hear that, how
(24:59):
do you go into a tournament? How do you look at Germany or
Spain and be like we're beating them to like it seems
impossible. Yeah, but at the same time, like
we're like when you look at the group stage, you felt, you can
feel like they were playing with0 pressure on, I guess
especially I guess England like they they kind of felt like, OK,
(25:19):
we're heading into this tournament as not even the
underdogs, like as non favorites.
England are the title holders. Netherlands are here to prove a
point. So we just got to play our game.
It worked in the same in the in the first game, England were
very bad as well. So we have to focus on this
because England woke up at the towards the end of the match
(25:41):
match score that that one goal. So it's tricky because you might
feel like this is some sort of trick, trick game by Lubona De
to put the pressure away from the side trying to boost their
confidence. Maybe I don't like these
matters. I'm something I'm someone who's
very reasonable. Like you can't tell your players
we're there, but you're not the favorites because there's no way
(26:02):
they're going to give their 100%if they know that they're going
to end up losing against pain. We were, you talked about this,
the Stardino, like we had this dominance of Spain and then
Barcelona. And you like you can feel that
some of these French players arescared of playing Spanish sides.
(26:25):
Like I believe that if you managed to beat Germany and play
against Spain in the semi final,maybe Spain would have managed
to easily win the game because you feel like there's this
mental issue. But at the same time, after the
game many people in the squad said that it's not about a
mental problem, it's not something mental, it's not
(26:48):
something like psych. We just we deserve to win.
Like how can you deserve to win if you didn't manage to overcome
the game or like to score in against the German side who
played with 10 players? So there's something, there's
something, I'm not going to say fishy, but there's something
that's not correct in this French squad.
(27:09):
I believe that one of the ways to develop is to have more
players move abroad because the Fin Cascadino said that she's
been there for a few months or ayear and something in her second
season. She said that she never ran in
Lyon as much as she runs in in the NWSL, because in the NWSL
you have a San Diego is a is an average team, but you also have
(27:33):
many other average teams. But San Diego is able to beat
every single other team in the in the league, while in Lyon,
she can, she can like jog on theon the yeah, jog and end up
winning 50. And she, she talked about this
in the episode with Sam Lewis. Great episode.
She she did it entirely in English.
(27:54):
So thumbs up for that film. But yeah, for for players in
France, this is huge. And she said that she discovered
a site in her that she didn't know about because she had to
run all over the field. And she's running now more than
she ever ran in her life. So maybe we need these players
to move like we need to see Selma playing in another league,
(28:16):
maybe see Sakina abroad, maybe see Katota abroad.
I didn't want to see Katota withLeo.
I wanted Katota to go abroad, play with Real Madrid, for
example. I wanted them to like, paste
another tactical approach to thegame.
But yeah, you can feel that I'm disappointed.
Understandable and also for for our long time viewers, maybe not
(28:39):
the most surprising thing that aseal wanted to see Mary
Antoinette Katoto go to Real Madrid.
I thought that was an that's interesting coming from you, a
seal. But let me I want to say
something about the about the French league and I want to tee
you up for this because anybody who likes football and who's
watching this show, you should immediately follow a seal on
(29:01):
Instagram, a seal under score T the number 10 we do in the NWSL.
We do have a playoff system. And I would just like to toss it
up to you because obviously D1 Arkema instituted a playoff
system and I thought you had a great post and some thoughts on
on a playoff system. Can you please tell us how you
(29:24):
feel about the playoffs in football?
OK, I'm gonna explain it first like to to really show the
difference from the start between the playoff system in
the US and in France. In the US you have they shall to
start. You have a lot of like more
teams than in France, so more teams.
This means that when you head into qualifiers I think you have
(29:45):
8 teams playing quarters, semi and the finals.
So you have 8 teams, one fight. In France the league is composed
of 10 teams or like I forgot 8 or 10 or 12 something like this.
And then you have the top 4 qualify.
And this is like, this is one ofthe reasons I like watching the
NWSL is that you never know who's going to win because all
(30:06):
you need is to have Trinity Rodman ready to play with the
Washington Spirit and she's going to win you a game.
While in France, despite all theefforts, as long as PSG and Pfc
aren't going to invest as much as OL, the league is heading to
OL. So they tried to change that,
give more opportunities to otherteams.
They decided to do this display of system where the 1st 4 head
(30:30):
into a playoffs first against fourth, second against third and
you play a fun. And that the posts I wrote about
it, the articles I wrote is thatit makes absolutely zero sense
for a team who had a 20 points lead throughout the regular
season to have to play playoffs and put the entire danger like
(30:51):
season in danger just because the Akema with Canal police.
So the TV rights owners owners wanted more competition.
Imagine OL who invest 10,000,000a year, €10,000,000 a year, lose
their Akema because PSGA got a penalty in the 93rd minute and
PSG didn't do anything throughout the season.
(31:13):
Their star players are leaving the club.
They don't want to invest and this is a PSG who is investing
millions and billions with them boys team.
But they don't they don't want to invest in the women's team.
Is it a lack of confidence in the team, lack of interest?
They they feel like there's no return on investment, A lot of
factors, but go to England to the go to the US.
(31:35):
Women's football has an excellent return on investment
if you know how to invest in it.So yeah, the and playoff system
and came up with me, Nick. Makes no sense actually.
Yeah, I tend to agree. I, I, Dino and I talk about it
in the NWSL. Even even with the playoffs, I
still don't like it. I mean, and you know, I grew up
(31:56):
in America obviously, but just like I I always feel like the
most fairway to determine who wins the league is every team
plays each other twice, once home and away.
And that's it's a fair barometer.
So I liked in your in your Instagram post, you referred to
it as an absurdity. And I I agree with you.
Yeah, yeah, okay. Like it's not, it's not a cup,
(32:18):
it's not a cup tournament. It's literally a league.
Like a league. Like you go play against the
others, if you manage to accumulate as many points as
possible by you, you win the league.
It it makes sense. See like the I'm I'm not that
much of an expert on the NWSLI. Also know that there's no first
and second division. So it differs like wanting to
put playoffs, but maybe we'll see in a few years.
(32:41):
The NWSL having first and seconddivision with teams going up and
down, you never know, especiallywith the salary cap now and no
trade system, all these developments.
But yeah, in France it makes no sense.
If you have one team investing, 2 teams half investing and the
others are nowhere to be seen, it's not the same.
(33:02):
Yeah. Yeah, really, really
disappointed in PSG. I think their their run year
before last to the Champions League got us really excited.
Obviously they reached the semi final and then it feels like
it's been a backslide from there.
See, I got one quick question before we get you out of here.
Grant mentioned your Instagram. I came across another one of
your posts that I wanted to ask a follow up about because you
(33:24):
put up a poll. I saw the poll results, but I
didn't see your vote. So quote, I love Itana, but do
you think she deserves the Euro MVP award?
End Quote. So for those at home, no won the
poll 66 to 34, but CO2 finally. Where do you land on that
debate? I actually tried to put the poll
to let let people help me decidebecause I adored Chloe Kelly's
(33:52):
EUR. The way she's she was impacting
the game and every single game was amazing.
But at the same time she wasn't a starter.
So can a super sub win an award for best player in the
tournament? She wasn't playing Martha.
See, this is where it gets tricky.
So she was one of these people who could have won the the
(34:13):
trophy. I also appreciated Alexa Puteras
judo the way she she had to overcome the first injury and
the second and when she shot down again, like she had a very
hard way back then she produced an excellent season with
Barcelona. Like Alexa starts the season are
(34:34):
insane. Even though some will say that
she plays in Spain. So it's easier than I don't know
a certain Lauren James in England.
So I was kind of hesitant between Kelly, Eitana and Alexia
that that's why Itana is one of my all time favorite players.
That one ball against Germany, the game was tight.
(34:54):
There was no way for Spain to score.
And then she literally just did body faint.
She left Germany defense like behind her.
She left her she lifted her her head.
She saw that Berger was already running and she shot from an
unbelievable angle. And in football, in football,
(35:15):
you just need one moment of magic by one of these greats.
And this this what separates a good player from a great player.
So I think even though she didn't win it, she deserves it.
I don't think she played the best final, like in terms of
performance, but it's like, maybe we can leave this to
another episode, but I feel, I feel like it's not working for
(35:36):
Spain. Whenever you have both Antenna
and Alexa on the field like this, this might lead to a lot
of debates. Yeah, a lot of debates.
But I feel like because they're both like alpha players and they
both want to have the ball and like dictate their play star or
dictate their tempo. And sometimes I feel it's not
completely working for them. But to keep it short, I talked a
(35:58):
lot. I I'd give it to Itana.
Yeah, no, I to answer your question, can you give it to a
sub? Yes, you can give it to a sub.
I made, I made the I made the point with Grant earlier that I
just think that we're going to look back on this tournament and
we'll Chloe Keller will be the first player that we think
about. And then with Itana, I love
Itana, you know, I mean, the player for me in the world, but
(36:22):
she missed the penalty kick, youknow, in the final.
And it's like, it's really hard.And I'm sure that was eating at
her as she's walking up and grabbing that award.
And I think for me, like you, you, you exit the tournament and
like 5 minutes before I kind of missed, you exit the tournament
30 seconds before Chloe Kelly ends the tournament after that
crazy run. You know, I think it's something
(36:43):
that maybe we'll be talking about for a while, maybe we
won't. Maybe we just move on.
But I didn't want to just got toshare, share that note quick
episode calendar. So much happening into the
channel as a seal mentioned NWS LS back champ C qualifying here
already. It's soon.
It's like it's happening. I think tomorrow we get some
football at the very earliest stages of that tournament just
(37:06):
five weeks away from the return of the WSL as well.
I can't believe all this happening so quickly, but here
we are a seal. Thanks for joining, Grant.
You already know what time it is.
Anything else you guys want to hit before we get out of here?
I definitely want to get more from a seal on her current work.
I'm going to I'm going to try this Cecile.
I'm going to have to butcher it.So when you when you tell us
about everything that you that you're doing, could you also
(37:29):
talk to us about Rousseau Femme Dongle Sport?
Yes, it took some time for me tounderstand that, but.
My, my French was so bad. I'm sorry.
I'm sorry I put you through that.
Those were technical difficulties.
I was just as he'll try to translate.
He started he. Started the.
Show so I'm like, what about youso oh.
(37:51):
Yeah, like a less year. I appreciate.
Yeah, I appreciate you helping me out.
It was just bad French. Yeah, I'm OK.
So it's been a very hectic year because I have the PhD defense
on the 2nd of December. That's that is definite now.
So it's the last straight line towards the defence and starting
to apply for jobs or stress all over the place.
(38:13):
I've helped Football Cove createthis first ever Arabic website
on women's football and we entirely focus on women's
football. Of course we have a preference
for Arabic football. We try to focus on the Saudi
league, on the players playing abroad, but we also focus on the
EUR on on other leagues. And like, this is what I wanted
(38:36):
to do all along because I wantedto kind of offer women's
football to the Arab world who'sstill in this place where I go
back to your kitchen. Women's football is not fun to
watch. I want to break this.
And if you look at the parade that England just did for the
Dionysus, you'd feel you'll see millions and millions of men
participating. So I want I want to help create
this change. Just change.
(38:57):
As for the Hazel, Hazel from DonSpa.
So this is like I created some sort of a community because I
felt like in sports in France, it's very hard to build
connections between people and especially between women because
some women feel like intimidatedto help other women because
(39:17):
places are very expensive and you might lose an opportunity if
someone else takes it from you. So I wanted like, facilitate
this, this exchange of culture and experiences and help people,
like, find jobs, help some girl find a PG opportunity, maybe
even help myself later on, find a job through these connections
(39:39):
without around 300 people, now 250.
We have some club presidents in the group.
That's very cool. Yeah.
A lot of journalists, some former players.
We have the legendary Marinette Pichon, the group, the French
forward. So it's nice we're trying to
build this connection and my objectives, try to turn it into
(40:01):
some sort of NGO or association where we can like host events
and webinars to like, because it's nice to have women playing
football, like female footballers, but also have to
have women in football or in sports working around the game.
So that's my main objective. OK, Dino, just just for editing
(40:22):
Resu femme de la sport, just just edit me in there.
Just just just take that and just switch it and then cut down
a seal's delay that I don't looklike such a dope.
Yeah, and I'll definitely edit this part out too.
Yeah, he's not gonna do any of that.
That's OK. He like he likes when I make a
fool out of myself trying to speak other languages.
(40:42):
I'm not gonna, no, I'm not gonnadisparage you at all.
You went, you went out there, you, you took a, you took a
swing at it. You made contact, you know.
Stupid. That's more than more than what
I. Yeah, you also decided to like,
speak in the most complicated language at once without
practice, like technique, just French, French.
Oh, goodness gracious. Yeah.
(41:03):
And I see. I'll definitely echo the.
I mean, really great work. I really hope that some folks
in, in our community have a chance to kind of like build a
bridge and maybe try to connect and, and become a part of it.
So if you have links, please send them our way.
We'll add them to the show description in case anybody
wants to follow up. Also, you know, with, with any,
any projects that you're workingon and totally echo your point
(41:25):
about French players in the NWSLSamba, Basha, Sandy, Baltimore.
I could think of about 5 or 6 that that I would love to see
here stateside, you know, mixingit up in our league.
But with that said, this has been another episode of into the
channel. Thank you as CO2 file for
hanging out. I've enjoyed the show or love of
all as much as your boys do as much as we all do, really make
(41:45):
sure you're kicking with us eachand every single week.
Like subscribe, follow YouTube, Spotify up a podcast wherever
you like to watch or listen. Leave us a review over for your
podcast. Stop.
Thanks to all of our socials except one in the showness of
this episode. And a big thank you to my coast
as well, Mr. Grant Angle for keeping it sleepy. 6 AMPT
doesn't matter. We're ready.
We'll be here. You already know what time it
is. I appreciate you bro.
(42:06):
Likewise, buddy, thank you againto you a seal.
Thanks for everybody for checking out the show.
Remember a seal under score T10 on Instagram.
We'll have links to her other work.
Thanks for everybody for checking out the show and we
will see you all next time or a voi abiento.
Perfect. Thank you.
Hello. OK, welcome to Into the Channel
podcast part mail about women's football.
I'm your host, Dean de Suspetus,and today we're joined by a very
special guest who will be introduced by my Co host, Mr.
Grant Angle. What's up, man?
Buddy, I'm feeling fantastic. And that is because our guest
today is a PhD candidate, a freelance journalist and editor,
(00:24):
as well as a football consultantextraordinaire.
She's currently working with Football Co as an editor at
Indavisa, where she helped launch the very first Arabic
platform solely dedicated to women's football.
She's also a former midfielder for Lebanon's women's national
team, and she has written in Sharpie as into the channels
starting #10 forevermore. She is an advocate.
(00:47):
She is a powerhouse. She is our friend.
It's an honor and a privilege towelcome back to the program a
CO2 Filey. Hey guys, thank you so much for
this introduction. Like I'm I'm shy now.
So thank you so much for for your nice words Grant of.
Course you deserve it pal all. Right, let's see, you'll shake
it off. Let's go, let's talk some
(01:08):
football. Just joking.
Very, very happy to have you back.
Well, obviously we're just coming up to Euros, so that that
feels like a good starting point.
It's going to, I have a lot I want to talk to you about
specifically, but the Euro final, we've had a couple days
to kind of decompress from it. What do you feel like are going
(01:28):
to be your 123 biggest takeover?I don't know what are you going
to take away from the final. From the final.
We'll get to France soon. We get to France soon.
Like I, I wrote, I wrote a tweetabout it that I felt I felt like
the match was divided into two halves.
The first half was kind of boring, or maybe they because
(01:51):
the two teams were very scared of trying to keep their
defensive composure. And then the second-half and the
extra time we had the completelyother different game.
But what I'm like taking from this final is that Spain had to
finish it very early on because they had the lead.
They missed a few very big chances with Caldente, with
(02:13):
Ettenia. And you can't, you can't, you
can't put yourself in danger against an English side who who
loves to like dominate in the last 20 minutes and press.
And this is what happened. So this is what I take from
technical point of view. I really thought Spain was going
to win. But this English, I don't know
if it's a passion or if it's just this dominance or the depth
(02:36):
in the squad or in the bench gave England this this lead
second. It shows that a coach can have a
very big impact. Because if you want to compare
this Spanish side from Jorge Vilda's time, even though I'm
not a very big fan of Jorge Vilda to what Monte Tommy is
doing now, you can see the very big difference.
(02:56):
Like we used to talk about Spainfor a few 2-3 years as the
biggest powerhouse on women's football and now like we feel
like other nations, especially England, even Germany managed to
put them in a uncomfortable position.
Tommy isn't, isn't bringing, bringing us the same image that
(03:17):
we have like this dominant Spanish side.
So and I just read somewhere that the the federation has 100%
trust in Tommy. So I'm not very happy with this
decision for the Spanish side. And lastly, I'm just happy to
see if it's full stadium. I think we had 29 games out of
32 or 31 with a full stadium. The final, the fact that we had
(03:40):
the two biggest nations in Europe with the biggest women's
football fan bases, I loved it. Like it felt like this cherry on
top or a great tournament organized by Switzerland who
performed like managed to put ona show throughout the
tournament. Yeah, I think that's a, that's a
great point because I, I know there was, I don't know if it
(04:02):
was like, I don't know, fear, maybe fear is a little too
strong, but Switzerland's not a nation with like a super rich
footballing history. So I know people were kind of
thinking about like what those crowds were going to look like.
And you're totally right. I mean, the crowds like blew
people away right away. The, the atmosphere, Germany's
(04:22):
fans came out. A lot of French, French fans
came out as well. It felt like a big tournament
the whole time. I want to go back to what you
were talking about with with Spain and Monsa Tomei and kind
of like the changes. How much of that, how much of
that do you think is just, and maybe this is different in
women's football compared to men's football, especially like
(04:45):
as things progress, but how muchof that is just, it's really
hard to dominate for several years on end?
Like you think about like in men's football, you had the
Spanish side who won the Euro, the World Cup and the Euro
back-to-back to back. We we've seen Spain be
absolutely dominant after winning that World Cup.
Like, is it just too high of an expectation to have to expect
(05:10):
Spain to continue a run of dominance like that over three
years? The thing is if you look at the
squads, Spain didn't have much changes in the two squads like
we have like the core, the core is still there.
Like you still have Bon Marti, you had Potayas who had an
excellent start of the EUR and this is one of one of my
favorite things out of this EUR that we're finally having or
(05:33):
getting back. Alexa, like pre ACL injury Patri
is here, like many of these players are still here.
England was also managed to to keep most of their key players,
even though we didn't have Mini Bright and Mary Herbes.
But like, if you want to talk from a dominance point of view,
it shows that women's football is on like on the rise.
(05:55):
And it's not just about the spectators filling the stadiums.
It's about players becoming better from a tactical point of
view, technical point of view, physically.
Because I remember the US women's national team used to
dominate the world in Europe. German used to dominate Europe.
They, they won way too many European titles in a row.
(06:16):
Olympic Lione used to dominate the Champions League club level.
So we used to have these periodsin women's football where one
nation was able to dominate because they had two 3-4 better
players than the other nations. They just needed one or two
stars. We've seen lately that even a
team like Italy can can compete because they have this structure
(06:41):
or the squad where you don't have one star.
Because if you look at the Italian squad for non women
super fans, they most certainly,certainly won't recognize any
players. While if you look at the French
squad, some will recognize Karl.Shall we Katoto like some of
these icons. So it shows that Italy knew that
they didn't have the best squad.They're not the favourites.
(07:03):
They might be underdogs or consider themselves underdogs,
but they were a solid compact team.
And this is this shows the stuffthe the development.
And one last point, quick point is that the different
development of the goalkeeping position.
Because I personally, whenever Iused to have the baits with
(07:24):
people around women's football, the first argument they used to
throw at me is how bad goalkeepers are.
You have to make the goals smaller for the women.
I don't know what. And then when you when you see
when you see saves like and Kathleen Berger save, when you
see a Catacols double save and the last minute against Germany
and you don't see the way they're playing with their feet.
(07:46):
It shows that all you need is time not only for the game to
become a better, to have a better ecosystem sociologically,
economically, etcetera, etcetera, but also from a purely
football point of view, year after year it would be hard for
one nation to dominate. Yeah, that that's a great point
of steel. And I think it makes me think a
couple things. I think Spain was maybe so
(08:08):
surprising in 2023 and like theyeven had less players because
they had the, the players like protesting.
They were so surprising and and so dominant in spots that I
think all of us were just like, Oh my God, I guess Spain is just
unbeatable now and nobody's going to beat them.
And I totally agree with you because there were spots in this
tournament where Germany had less talented players, whether
through injury or red cards. And it seemed like as the
(08:29):
tournament progressed, they, they played better even with
less talent, less players. And we, I think in the entire
tournament, we saw the talent not necessarily dictate the
outcome. You know, whether it's teams
like Denmark that had like real professional big players that
play for huge teams not really able to put it together or
Italy, I think is a great example.
On the flip side, which kind of leads to it's, it's not the
(08:54):
smoothest segue, but I want to talk about France.
Obviously some real highs, real lows for the French team.
I want to hear from you. What was the experience like
tracking this team peak? You know, you beat England, what
that what the vibes are like. And then out toward the end, you
know, did did France exit the tournament with some enthusiasm
(09:15):
Or, you know, were the vibes a little sour?
Like, first of all, I just want to like have one word put out
there for this French. I don't know, I can't even find
the words like like this French adventure at the Euros is roller
coaster. Yeah, there we go.
I, I swear roller coaster because and I, I, I don't want
(09:37):
to like go back a month, a monthago because we don't like, we
were not going to go back that much.
But look, we have to start talking about this team.
Ever since Luhom Bonadini took charge of the team after after
the Olympics, because since thenLuhom Bonadi tried to implement
his method. We felt like he's he had
(09:57):
something else that Verona wasn't showing.
He he flew to the US where he spent a few weeks to watch the
players over there. He was flying from one country
to the other. So he was putting this effort
into bringing something new to the table, maybe like giving
another opportunity to Malvin Malach with Manchester United.
So he he brought something the the results, the new Nations
(10:21):
League were good. So we're like, OK, but then
because if you want to talk about the EUR, you have to talk
about what happened before making such a decision 5 weeks
prior to the tournament, leaving3 mega experienced players aside
is is shocking and it's kind of the first wrong step towards
(10:43):
doing what you want to do. Because I understand that he
wants to build for the future, but you could, you could have
built it right now, like on the 1st of August.
So start now. Why did you start 5 weeks before
the the EUR? And Lindsay Heaps, Lindsay
Horan, Lindsay Heaps said at an interview that when Giovanni was
putting the effort day in, day out with Lyon, because she was
preparing for the EUR, because every football player focuses on
(11:06):
one tournament and prepares throughout the season for this
tournament. I understand that Eugenie
Lesammer wasn't giving as much as she used to before.
But also if you look at the reasoning behind it is that he
wants to rely on on other players or younger players.
And if you look at his attack, Ijust have the names right in
(11:27):
front. Katoto, Gianni, Matteo and the
Fincas Carino are the very like famous French names.
We knew that they're going to bethere.
So then we had two more spots, the first one for Melvin
Mallard, OK, reasonable, she dida good season and was between
her and Vicky Bishop from Leon and the other was Kerry Gaggle.
Gaggle played 25 minutes throughout the tournament.
(11:50):
It's great for Gaggle because it's her first international big
tournament. She's going to get this, this
experience of being at Clarefontaine, travelling with
the team, discovering this high level football.
But playing her 25 minutes against Wales and not bringing
her at all in the other games, like three other games, shows
that most probably you don't have faith in her or faith in
(12:12):
her being able to impact such big games.
So why not offer Gaga chance after the EUR and bring Ogeni
in? Because Ogeni could have helped
you 5-10 minutes per game. So that's where the issue
started with me. I had a lot of people disagree,
saying that he's right, he has to rebuild.
I just I didn't like the timing.I thought he could have waited a
(12:33):
bit right after the EUR. That's my opinion.
Yeah, the the EUR game I was happy.
Great open opener. The match against Wales was
great. Excellent match against the
Netherlands with their fingers. Kahima putting on the the level
we know, the performance we know.
Then the Germany team game game and you felt like you had the
(12:57):
most amateur French side ever since I don't know how many
years. And like that they gave you like
we knew that we had a very hard chance with the group of death.
They gave you this boost and confidence that we might
actually make it to 0 at least play Spain in the semi finals
and then disappointment again. I'm still angry, I think, I
(13:18):
think you can see it. I'm still angry.
I'm still disappointed because like you can't have two very
different faces like from the group stage, the Germany much?
They were two different sides ofFrance.
Yeah, I I totally agree. And going to the the Wendy Renar
point, I mean Wendy Renar, Eugenie Laissemer, Kenzo Dali
(13:38):
being left off the squad, there was something that was being
said during the broadcast here in America.
I'm guessing it probably was bouncing around over in in
France too, where I don't. I don't know if it was an exact
quote from Bonadie or it was just like the the idea, but it
was this narrative of well, theydidn't win a trophy with Wendy
(14:00):
Renard and Eugenie Laissez, so why not try something different?
But to your point, well, first of all, I mean, I know when Dino
and I talked about it, there's no football team ever that
wouldn't be better with Wendy Renar on it.
There's just full stop the the no team exists that would not be
better with her in the squad. But but secondly, when you talk
(14:21):
about the difference in the performance from the England
match and the group stage to just having a leg up, you know,
playing with A1 player advantageagainst Germany and not being
able to get across the finish line, there's no way that people
couldn't convince me that Renar and Lisa Mare and possibly Kenza
Dali would not. Their veteran leadership would
not help in that situation. Yeah, yeah.
(14:45):
The thing is football is a sportof subjectivity, so you can have
an opinion of your own and others would disagree.
That's normal. But watching the game and I
watched it again like 2 days later I watched it and I tried
to see if Germany were too good defensively or France was
struggling to find the. It's both, but it's mainly
(15:07):
France because if you look at the match and I tweeted about it
and this is my problem ever eversince Sonia Bo Pastor stays with
OL, is that this whole France system or generation is based on
the ball passing through the middle playing to Selma Pasha on
this or the side who crosses theworld.
You do it once, twice, 3 * 10 times.
(15:29):
If it's not working, it's not gonna work.
You have the German players who they can literally kill you
physically and then you have Clara Matteo in the in the box.
Like what will Clara Matteo do? What will Sonji Batimao do there
physically? Like there's there's years and
years behind, like physically there and at some point whenever
Selma Basha was crossing, you could also feel like she's
(15:51):
crossing, but there's no one in the box.
So maybe one ball from Wendy Hona would have at least saved
France or like gave France 1 hope of, I don't know, an
opportunity, a chance, a crossbar, maybe a goal.
You can never know. And from from a leadership point
of view, in my opinion, if I don't know if you if you heard
(16:13):
about it, but if Hona was there,there's no way Alice at least
some bot would have taken the the size of penalty.
And Selma Bosch are saying that she didn't take hers because she
she's taking more responsibility.
Like where on earth do you take responsibility by not taking a
penalty? That's what she said.
(16:33):
She said that since she's one ofthe leaders of the team, she let
Alice shut because she's responsible.
Like it's the other way around. You have to take up or like be
responsible or a leader and takeone of the shots.
So if you had Wendy Ronald therefirst, she was she was going to
shoot one of them. Second, such.
(16:54):
I don't have to say it, but you can't convince me that you
weren't afraid of shooting because Selma.
Selma missed the last shot against Australia and at the
World Cup. It's definitely this.
But these these details, these extra things would have
definitely helped. But again, many people will tell
you she didn't help us in the World Cup in Talos at the
(17:15):
Olympics, didn't help us at the 2019 World Cup at home soil.
But she's it's not a individual sport.
When Giovannach at the 2019 Euros World Cup scored the
scored two goals, gave France the the win, she did her part.
It's a whole system that wasn't working.
And, you know, it doesn't help. And obviously we're here in
America, it doesn't help when you run into the 2019 US women's
(17:39):
national team, who might be the greatest team of all time.
When you look up and down that roster, of course, you know, an
American guy has to has to throwthat out there.
But yeah, and just the the renar, the talk around Renar
just seemed patently ridiculous to me.
Yeah. And I just want to add something
like at some point I was like, OK, I have like, at some point,
(18:01):
even if even if you're a journalist, you have to have a
subjective side. Like this is normal because you
grew up watching a player, A-Team, whatever.
But at the same time I tried to be as objective as possible
saying OK Janice, Janina Summersdecision was reasonable, I might
accept Wendy Renard's decision, I might say OK but not taking
(18:24):
Kenza Dolly who was having an excellent NWSL season and I was
waking up at 2:00 and 3:00 AM France time to watch her and
Delphine because now I can't notwatch.
These are two of my favorite alltime player and and Kenza.
Kenza was dominating the every single match in the midfield.
How can you not take her again? Don't put her as a starter, but
(18:46):
don't convince me that she can'tbring bring something up in the
last 15 minutes. She can't add something and she
kind of have has this technical touch as a playmaker that you
might need to create some chances because if you like look
at Francis midfield, Sakina is now a midfielder.
She's she's a left back. Amel Masri.
(19:08):
I would have taken cancer and left Amel at home because cancer
played more minutes to see them than Amel.
See if he's taking if he's he's talking purely about the
performance part of you. Grazge, Yoho, Toiletti, Orion,
they all have the same profile, this physical profile.
A lot of duels like you don't have this playmate.
(19:29):
I'm I'm, I'm actually waiting toto listen or to hear what Kenza
wants to say or has to say because I I she said that she's
going to talk after the EUR. But how can you leave such
players at home? And you know that you have a
group of death and like your your reasoning is the age.
(19:50):
Look at Lucy Browns, look at look at Girelli from Italy.
Look at all these experience better than players like this is
the international, yeah. It could go way up in age.
We, I think we actually wait forthese tournaments to see these
players because this is what they need.
This is what they strive for. Like let her, let her take her
(20:12):
whatever she wants to do. Stop playing football right
after the EUR but give her the opportunity to play for France.
See. There's been a lot of talk this
NWL season just about the mileage that Kenzie Dali is is
running in the league. She's just basically outrunning
everybody and is a real engine for that San Diego offense.
And I think your point about allright, ball in the middle, Bosch
(20:35):
on the left cross in let's see what happens.
Kenzie Dali's a great a great player to mix that up.
You know, even get a start here,come in half an hour there and
it's it's it's wild because thisis definitely a new Kenzie Dali
in the NWSL that not used to seeing.
So I think I think form wise, conditioning wise, that one
(20:57):
Wendy Renar is a is a massive mess up.
I agree with you on Lesselmeier,but Dolly, I think is is
probably just as bad. You could even you can maybe
even make an argument that's a smidge worse than than leaving
Renar off. But where does France go from
here? Did did you see any young
players? Did you see anything hopeful
that that you're like, OK, got alittle something that that we're
excited about or still sore? But The thing is like Lohan Bon
(21:22):
and he built his entire analysisof the fact that he wants to
build for the future. And then we had a journalist
analyse the squad. Most of these players were
present at the Olympics or at the at the last World Cup.
So he didn't really bring in newplayers.
Like if you put aside Kelly Gaga, who played 20 minutes, 25
(21:44):
minutes against Wales, he he brought up new players and
defence like Lubuga Meluin and my favorite Alice Sombat because
Alice had to cover for the absence of Wendy, but the
absence of Guy Jaan Bog as well.Other than that, I don't really
see how he's building for the future.
Because if you want to build forthe future, you have to do like
(22:05):
Spain, who brought Lopez, Vicki Lopez, or you have to do like
England, who brought Michela Jimanc and scored two decisive
goals. So if you really want to build
for the future, you have to start calling up the likes of
Cassia Busi, the likes of MyleneMendy, What's her, what's her
(22:28):
name? Lunari Badera, the striker who
signed with Chelsea, Leanna Joseph.
So these are the youngsters who you have to build your future
on. You can't bring in someone who's
25 years old, as in Menfil Malafand say that you're building for
the future. That's just an excuse to say
that you want to leave these players out.
That's my opinion. So where do we go from here?
(22:48):
He said that this Euros is a preparation for the World Cup.
I've never heard a coach say that he's going to sacrifice a
major tournament for another, but he's sacrificed the EUR for
the World Cup. Let me guess, he said that
after. No, no, no, no.
Before, before he said that. Oh, really?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pure chaotic management.
(23:09):
Yeah, he said that that France isn't the favorite, aren't the
favorites. And this, this yours will be a
test for the future. I know what and with the new USA
squad, with the youngsters coming, Germany who have a lot
of depth, England, Spain, all these players, I don't think
(23:30):
like France is heading into 2027and Brazil as the favourites
without counting Brazil, Colombia and the others up.
So where's the what? What about the future of France?
I'm not hopeful. Like I was waiting for this
tournament to maybe boost my hopes.
Again, I'm not hopeful. We're clearly in a situation
(23:52):
where you need to structure the league and the the entire
football scheme in France beforefocusing on the national team
because England has the best league in the world alongside
the NWSL and like who's winning the EUR?
England. So we need to structure the
entire French league. I got a quick follow up to that,
(24:14):
just because I'm still a little bit in shock about that, that
taking that position before a tournament.
You know, we talk a little bit. I mean, it's it's it's funny
because like, you know, obviously we're in the USA and
you know, I can guarantee you that, hey, this is a warm up
tournament for the next tournament.
It's all right, no worries. Has never been said in for in
the US women's actual teams sphere before any before
(24:37):
anything physical has ever happened.
I don't think they've ever gone out and been like, well,
whatever, we're not going to winthis one.
It's OK, let's see what happens.And yeah, if you're a player, if
you're a Selma Basha or you're aAlice Sunbath or somebody
younger and I'm looking at KellyGaga.
I didn't know she was 26. So that that's another one.
I'm like, wow, this is a real a real head scratcher.
But if you're one of these youngplayers and you hear that, how
(24:59):
do you go into a tournament? How do you look at Germany or
Spain and be like we're beating them to like it seems
impossible. Yeah, but at the same time, like
we're like when you look at the group stage, you felt, you can
feel like they were playing with0 pressure on, I guess
especially I guess England like they they kind of felt like, OK,
(25:19):
we're heading into this tournament as not even the
underdogs, like as non favorites.
England are the title holders. Netherlands are here to prove a
point. So we just got to play our game.
It worked in the same in the in the first game, England were
very bad as well. So we have to focus on this
because England woke up at the towards the end of the match
(25:41):
match score that that one goal. So it's tricky because you might
feel like this is some sort of trick, trick game by Lubona De
to put the pressure away from the side trying to boost their
confidence. Maybe I don't like these
matters. I'm something I'm someone who's
very reasonable. Like you can't tell your players
we're there, but you're not the favorites because there's no way
(26:02):
they're going to give their 100%if they know that they're going
to end up losing against pain. We were, you talked about this,
the Stardino, like we had this dominance of Spain and then
Barcelona. And you like you can feel that
some of these French players arescared of playing Spanish sides.
(26:25):
Like I believe that if you managed to beat Germany and play
against Spain in the semi final,maybe Spain would have managed
to easily win the game because you feel like there's this
mental issue. But at the same time, after the
game many people in the squad said that it's not about a
mental problem, it's not something mental, it's not
(26:48):
something like psych. We just we deserve to win.
Like how can you deserve to win if you didn't manage to overcome
the game or like to score in against the German side who
played with 10 players? So there's something, there's
something, I'm not going to say fishy, but there's something
that's not correct in this French squad.
(27:09):
I believe that one of the ways to develop is to have more
players move abroad because the Fin Cascadino said that she's
been there for a few months or ayear and something in her second
season. She said that she never ran in
Lyon as much as she runs in in the NWSL, because in the NWSL
you have a San Diego is a is an average team, but you also have
(27:33):
many other average teams. But San Diego is able to beat
every single other team in the in the league, while in Lyon,
she can, she can like jog on theon the yeah, jog and end up
winning 50. And she, she talked about this
in the episode with Sam Lewis. Great episode.
She she did it entirely in English.
(27:54):
So thumbs up for that film. But yeah, for for players in
France, this is huge. And she said that she discovered
a site in her that she didn't know about because she had to
run all over the field. And she's running now more than
she ever ran in her life. So maybe we need these players
to move like we need to see Selma playing in another league,
(28:16):
maybe see Sakina abroad, maybe see Katota abroad.
I didn't want to see Katota withLeo.
I wanted Katota to go abroad, play with Real Madrid, for
example. I wanted them to like, paste
another tactical approach to thegame.
But yeah, you can feel that I'm disappointed.
Understandable and also for for our long time viewers, maybe not
(28:39):
the most surprising thing that aseal wanted to see Mary
Antoinette Katoto go to Real Madrid.
I thought that was an that's interesting coming from you, a
seal. But let me I want to say
something about the about the French league and I want to tee
you up for this because anybody who likes football and who's
watching this show, you should immediately follow a seal on
(29:01):
Instagram, a seal under score T the number 10 we do in the NWSL.
We do have a playoff system. And I would just like to toss it
up to you because obviously D1 Arkema instituted a playoff
system and I thought you had a great post and some thoughts on
on a playoff system. Can you please tell us how you
(29:24):
feel about the playoffs in football?
OK, I'm gonna explain it first like to to really show the
difference from the start between the playoff system in
the US and in France. In the US you have they shall to
start. You have a lot of like more
teams than in France, so more teams.
This means that when you head into qualifiers I think you have
(29:45):
8 teams playing quarters, semi and the finals.
So you have 8 teams, one fight. In France the league is composed
of 10 teams or like I forgot 8 or 10 or 12 something like this.
And then you have the top 4 qualify.
And this is like, this is one ofthe reasons I like watching the
NWSL is that you never know who's going to win because all
(30:06):
you need is to have Trinity Rodman ready to play with the
Washington Spirit and she's going to win you a game.
While in France, despite all theefforts, as long as PSG and Pfc
aren't going to invest as much as OL, the league is heading to
OL. So they tried to change that,
give more opportunities to otherteams.
They decided to do this display of system where the 1st 4 head
(30:30):
into a playoffs first against fourth, second against third and
you play a fun. And that the posts I wrote about
it, the articles I wrote is thatit makes absolutely zero sense
for a team who had a 20 points lead throughout the regular
season to have to play playoffs and put the entire danger like
(30:51):
season in danger just because the Akema with Canal police.
So the TV rights owners owners wanted more competition.
Imagine OL who invest 10,000,000a year, €10,000,000 a year, lose
their Akema because PSGA got a penalty in the 93rd minute and
PSG didn't do anything throughout the season.
(31:13):
Their star players are leaving the club.
They don't want to invest and this is a PSG who is investing
millions and billions with them boys team.
But they don't they don't want to invest in the women's team.
Is it a lack of confidence in the team, lack of interest?
They they feel like there's no return on investment, A lot of
factors, but go to England to the go to the US.
(31:35):
Women's football has an excellent return on investment
if you know how to invest in it.So yeah, the and playoff system
and came up with me, Nick. Makes no sense actually.
Yeah, I tend to agree. I, I, Dino and I talk about it
in the NWSL. Even even with the playoffs, I
still don't like it. I mean, and you know, I grew up
(31:56):
in America obviously, but just like I I always feel like the
most fairway to determine who wins the league is every team
plays each other twice, once home and away.
And that's it's a fair barometer.
So I liked in your in your Instagram post, you referred to
it as an absurdity. And I I agree with you.
Yeah, yeah, okay. Like it's not, it's not a cup,
(32:18):
it's not a cup tournament. It's literally a league.
Like a league. Like you go play against the
others, if you manage to accumulate as many points as
possible by you, you win the league.
It it makes sense. See like the I'm I'm not that
much of an expert on the NWSLI. Also know that there's no first
and second division. So it differs like wanting to
put playoffs, but maybe we'll see in a few years.
(32:41):
The NWSL having first and seconddivision with teams going up and
down, you never know, especiallywith the salary cap now and no
trade system, all these developments.
But yeah, in France it makes no sense.
If you have one team investing, 2 teams half investing and the
others are nowhere to be seen, it's not the same.
(33:02):
Yeah. Yeah, really, really
disappointed in PSG. I think their their run year
before last to the Champions League got us really excited.
Obviously they reached the semi final and then it feels like
it's been a backslide from there.
See, I got one quick question before we get you out of here.
Grant mentioned your Instagram. I came across another one of
your posts that I wanted to ask a follow up about because you
(33:24):
put up a poll. I saw the poll results, but I
didn't see your vote. So quote, I love Itana, but do
you think she deserves the Euro MVP award?
End Quote. So for those at home, no won the
poll 66 to 34, but CO2 finally. Where do you land on that
debate? I actually tried to put the poll
to let let people help me decidebecause I adored Chloe Kelly's
(33:52):
EUR. The way she's she was impacting
the game and every single game was amazing.
But at the same time she wasn't a starter.
So can a super sub win an award for best player in the
tournament? She wasn't playing Martha.
See, this is where it gets tricky.
So she was one of these people who could have won the the
(34:13):
trophy. I also appreciated Alexa Puteras
judo the way she she had to overcome the first injury and
the second and when she shot down again, like she had a very
hard way back then she produced an excellent season with
Barcelona. Like Alexa starts the season are
(34:34):
insane. Even though some will say that
she plays in Spain. So it's easier than I don't know
a certain Lauren James in England.
So I was kind of hesitant between Kelly, Eitana and Alexia
that that's why Itana is one of my all time favorite players.
That one ball against Germany, the game was tight.
(34:54):
There was no way for Spain to score.
And then she literally just did body faint.
She left Germany defense like behind her.
She left her she lifted her her head.
She saw that Berger was already running and she shot from an
unbelievable angle. And in football, in football,
(35:15):
you just need one moment of magic by one of these greats.
And this this what separates a good player from a great player.
So I think even though she didn't win it, she deserves it.
I don't think she played the best final, like in terms of
performance, but it's like, maybe we can leave this to
another episode, but I feel, I feel like it's not working for
(35:36):
Spain. Whenever you have both Antenna
and Alexa on the field like this, this might lead to a lot
of debates. Yeah, a lot of debates.
But I feel like because they're both like alpha players and they
both want to have the ball and like dictate their play star or
dictate their tempo. And sometimes I feel it's not
completely working for them. But to keep it short, I talked a
(35:58):
lot. I I'd give it to Itana.
Yeah, no, I to answer your question, can you give it to a
sub? Yes, you can give it to a sub.
I made, I made the I made the point with Grant earlier that I
just think that we're going to look back on this tournament and
we'll Chloe Keller will be the first player that we think
about. And then with Itana, I love
Itana, you know, I mean, the player for me in the world, but
(36:22):
she missed the penalty kick, youknow, in the final.
And it's like, it's really hard.And I'm sure that was eating at
her as she's walking up and grabbing that award.
And I think for me, like you, you, you exit the tournament and
like 5 minutes before I kind of missed, you exit the tournament
30 seconds before Chloe Kelly ends the tournament after that
crazy run. You know, I think it's something
(36:43):
that maybe we'll be talking about for a while, maybe we
won't. Maybe we just move on.
But I didn't want to just got toshare, share that note quick
episode calendar. So much happening into the
channel as a seal mentioned NWS LS back champ C qualifying here
already. It's soon.
It's like it's happening. I think tomorrow we get some
football at the very earliest stages of that tournament just
(37:06):
five weeks away from the return of the WSL as well.
I can't believe all this happening so quickly, but here
we are a seal. Thanks for joining, Grant.
You already know what time it is.
Anything else you guys want to hit before we get out of here?
I definitely want to get more from a seal on her current work.
I'm going to I'm going to try this Cecile.
I'm going to have to butcher it.So when you when you tell us
about everything that you that you're doing, could you also
(37:29):
talk to us about Rousseau Femme Dongle Sport?
Yes, it took some time for me tounderstand that, but.
My, my French was so bad. I'm sorry.
I'm sorry I put you through that.
Those were technical difficulties.
I was just as he'll try to translate.
He started he. Started the.
Show so I'm like, what about youso oh.
(37:51):
Yeah, like a less year. I appreciate.
Yeah, I appreciate you helping me out.
It was just bad French. Yeah, I'm OK.
So it's been a very hectic year because I have the PhD defense
on the 2nd of December. That's that is definite now.
So it's the last straight line towards the defence and starting
to apply for jobs or stress all over the place.
(38:13):
I've helped Football Cove createthis first ever Arabic website
on women's football and we entirely focus on women's
football. Of course we have a preference
for Arabic football. We try to focus on the Saudi
league, on the players playing abroad, but we also focus on the
EUR on on other leagues. And like, this is what I wanted
(38:36):
to do all along because I wantedto kind of offer women's
football to the Arab world who'sstill in this place where I go
back to your kitchen. Women's football is not fun to
watch. I want to break this.
And if you look at the parade that England just did for the
Dionysus, you'd feel you'll see millions and millions of men
participating. So I want I want to help create
this change. Just change.
(38:57):
As for the Hazel, Hazel from DonSpa.
So this is like I created some sort of a community because I
felt like in sports in France, it's very hard to build
connections between people and especially between women because
some women feel like intimidatedto help other women because
(39:17):
places are very expensive and you might lose an opportunity if
someone else takes it from you. So I wanted like, facilitate
this, this exchange of culture and experiences and help people,
like, find jobs, help some girl find a PG opportunity, maybe
even help myself later on, find a job through these connections
(39:39):
without around 300 people, now 250.
We have some club presidents in the group.
That's very cool. Yeah.
A lot of journalists, some former players.
We have the legendary Marinette Pichon, the group, the French
forward. So it's nice we're trying to
build this connection and my objectives, try to turn it into
(40:01):
some sort of NGO or association where we can like host events
and webinars to like, because it's nice to have women playing
football, like female footballers, but also have to
have women in football or in sports working around the game.
So that's my main objective. OK, Dino, just just for editing
(40:22):
Resu femme de la sport, just just edit me in there.
Just just just take that and just switch it and then cut down
a seal's delay that I don't looklike such a dope.
Yeah, and I'll definitely edit this part out too.
Yeah, he's not gonna do any of that.
That's OK. He like he likes when I make a
fool out of myself trying to speak other languages.
(40:42):
I'm not gonna, no, I'm not gonnadisparage you at all.
You went, you went out there, you, you took a, you took a
swing at it. You made contact, you know.
Stupid. That's more than more than what
I. Yeah, you also decided to like,
speak in the most complicated language at once without
practice, like technique, just French, French.
Oh, goodness gracious. Yeah.
(41:03):
And I see. I'll definitely echo the.
I mean, really great work. I really hope that some folks
in, in our community have a chance to kind of like build a
bridge and maybe try to connect and, and become a part of it.
So if you have links, please send them our way.
We'll add them to the show description in case anybody
wants to follow up. Also, you know, with, with any,
any projects that you're workingon and totally echo your point
(41:25):
about French players in the NWSLSamba, Basha, Sandy, Baltimore.
I could think of about 5 or 6 that that I would love to see
here stateside, you know, mixingit up in our league.
But with that said, this has been another episode of into the
channel. Thank you as CO2 file for
hanging out. I've enjoyed the show or love of
all as much as your boys do as much as we all do, really make
(41:45):
sure you're kicking with us eachand every single week.
Like subscribe, follow YouTube, Spotify up a podcast wherever
you like to watch or listen. Leave us a review over for your
podcast. Stop.
Thanks to all of our socials except one in the showness of
this episode. And a big thank you to my coast
as well, Mr. Grant Angle for keeping it sleepy. 6 AMPT
doesn't matter. We're ready.
We'll be here. You already know what time it
is. I appreciate you bro.
(42:06):
Likewise, buddy, thank you againto you a seal.
Thanks for everybody for checking out the show.
Remember a seal under score T10 on Instagram.
We'll have links to her other work.
Thanks for everybody for checking out the show and we
will see you all next time or a voi abiento.
Perfect. Thank you.
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Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.