🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 JACQUI OATLEY on England and EURO 2025's Best Moments | EP 160 - Into the Channel ⚽️ A Podcast Primarily About Women's Football

Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
Okay, welcome to Into the Channel podcast Primer Owens
football. I'm your host, Dino de
Suspicious, and today we're joined by a very special guest.
We'll be introduced by my host, Mr. Grant Angle.
What's up, man? I'm feeling fantastic buddy, and
that is because we are joined byour show's favorite broadcaster
and a true media trailblazer. In 2005 she became the first

(00:26):
woman to call a match on the British network radio and in
2007 she was the first woman to provide commentary on Match of
the Day, the historic BBC television program watched by
10s of millions of football fansevery season. 15 years later in
2022, she was still smashing glass ceilings when she was the
first woman to deliver play by play for a World Cup match
broadcast right here in the United States of America.

(00:48):
But for the purposes of today's discussion, we'll reflect on her
latest work at the 2025 Women's Euro, where by my count, she
called it incredible. 16 matchesover the course of 25 days,
including both semi finals and the final in what can only be
described as a legendary performance from a legendary
broadcaster. It is truly an honor and a

(01:09):
privilege to welcome to the program Jackie Oatley.
Wow, what an introduction. I must come again.
Guys are really nice. I'll, I'll write a whole
different one. I mean, you have so many
accomplishments. I'll have I'll have another
minute on you next time. Oh, God bless you.
That's very kind. Thank you.
Lovely to be with you. Yes.
Thank you so much for joining us.
I'm just about over the jet lag.I'm just about just about

(01:32):
getting there. Must have been a a trek.
And you guys, well, you and LoriLindsay were the only two.
I think that that put more hourson tape for the euro.
We did 12 shows in 12 days. So we were like, we we just ran
ourselves ragged. But I can't imagine being doing
six of seven knockout stage matches.
That must have been an absolute marathon.

(01:53):
All the extra time and penaltiesas well.
But, but you know what it was, it was honestly such a
privilege. Genuinely, I mean that because
I'd much rather be doing 16 games in 3 1/2 weeks and coming
home thinking, wow, what just happened than than watching at
home thinking I'd love to have been doing that.
So yeah, I, I absolutely loved it.
And for Fox to put the faith in us to do that many games and to,

(02:15):
you know, to be effectively, well, one of the, one of the
prominent voices out there. There are others of course as
well, John and JP who did a brilliant job, but it was just
brilliant to be asked to do it. And it really was an absolute
buzz. And I, I absolutely loved it.
Huge amounts of work goes into it.
Huge amounts. I did 3 weeks solid before I
left, which is mostly the the player.

(02:37):
Not just stats but background and facts and information and
literally Nuggets about their private lives, meaning how they
got started in football. Whether it was an older brother
or whether it was a twin sister or literally all these things
which never see the light of dayof course, but occasionally
there might be something that's relevant.
So that's all part of it. I actually love delving deep

(02:58):
into the backgrounds of each of the players, and it's really
fascinating to see the patterns of how these players got into it
in different countries, and thenof course to see them perform on
the big stage like that. So it really was an absolute
thrill to do it. So many great moments in this
tournament. Walking away from this
tournament, what's going to be your one flashbulb memory where
you're just like, wow, that thatencapsulates the tournament?

(03:19):
I think possibly the Lucy bronzeheader to begin the comeback for
England the two one in the quarter final against Sweden.
I think because you're thinking Sweden have been all over
England. The holders are going out
barring another, you know, come back something crazy.

(03:40):
And for Lucy Bruns of all players to score that goal in
the manner she did and she tendsto score in major finals all bar
one she scored in which is extraordinary from right back.
I think you then started to feelthat turn around and just every
Michelle Azuman moment was insane, really.
But I think that moment, becausethen that precipitated this

(04:00):
whole, Oh my goodness, they're going to do it again and they're
going to do it again and they'regoing to do it again.
And they did do it again and they beat the number one side in
Europe in the end. So maybe that moment, and I
don't think that's being too Anglocentric about it because
England did win the tournament and most people didn't think
they would given the pretty terrible start they had.
So I think that was that was just a oh, my goodness, proper

(04:24):
English moment. And Lucy Bronze has toughed it
out and it's dragging them back into it.
But there were so many wonderfulmoments in that tournament.
I think I have to have to mention also the Rio Louis
Shamili late, late equalizer, which sent Switzerland through
against Finland into the knockout stages.
And to have the host nation continuing into the knockout

(04:46):
stages was absolutely huge as well.
So that that's another big one because you need the host nation
to perform. And I loved watching Switzerland
and they surprised me. I don't mind admitting lots of
things that surprised me in thistournament.
And the way their young players performed, 318 year olds
starting against Spain in the inthe quarterfinals, for example,
was extraordinary. So I've kind of given you 2

(05:08):
answers there. OK, 22 extremely good answers.
One I would say, you know, toughis Lucy Bronze's middle name.
I think we're all familiar with that and I just I'm so glad you
mentioned her as we kind of like.
I mean, let's let's get into England that the Champions.
Obviously. What is it about from you
watching these matches? There was at one point in my

(05:29):
notes where I just wrote Lucy Bronze at the back post is
always open for like this is like and you know, the other
team watches film too. They have the scouting reports.
What is she doing to just make herself available at the back
post? It seems like every single set
piece every time down the field.You might have heard us in

(05:50):
commentary saying that Lucy Bronze is free again.
Why do they keep leaving her free from set piece?
It's extraordinary, isn't it? Because they've all watched
every single clip of everything they do and England for ages
have had Lucy Bronze fabulous header at the back post by the
way. Credit to her for for getting
free I guess. But sometimes she's just
standing there and then leave her to it, which, yeah, it does
baffle me. I think the one where she scored

(06:11):
from the head is a bit differentbecause of the movement and what
have you and the flow of the game.
But from set pieces, I don't know what the excuse is.
We were, we were pretty gobsmacked that they that they
kept leaving her free. And but what a performance from
her. Honestly, I think she's become
absolutely iconic. I feel lucky enough to have been
there when she made her England debut off the bench for Duniya

(06:33):
Susie against Japan in a friendly before EUR 2013, when
she went but didn't see a minuteto play and she had a late
winner ruled out wrongly for offside actually that day.
And that was the start of something.
And she was really highly rated amongst the people who knew her,
saw her, coached her. And so it came to fruition.
But I think so much has been said about her.

(06:53):
So Megan Rapinoe waxing lyrical about her, saying she absolutely
hated playing against her, whichis a huge compliment, of course,
in her position. But she she actually lives down
the road from me. So we we were driving through
our local village earlier. My little boy was looking out
for Lucy Bronze. Yeah, she lives down the road.
And because we're in Chelsea territory here and she's just an
extraordinary character. Never mind the broken leg,

(07:16):
everything else, everything, themental strength that she has.
And hearing every player in their various interviews through
throughout the tournament, talking about just listening to
Lucy in camp and her experience and how she reacts to things and
telling us what we should do when this happens and how we
react to that happening. For example, losing against
France in the opening game. And Lucy lost against France in

(07:37):
the opening game of the World Cup in 2015 when she was played
at left wing that day to nullifythe threat on the right from
France. And it was a horrible
performance, a horrible defeat. And they went on to be so, so
close to reaching the final. So her having been there, seen
it done, it was was quite a thread throughout this
tournament and I need to get some photographs.

(07:59):
I think, you know, the celebration of the penalty
against Sweden, which really gotinto Sweden's heads and they
ended up losing that. I think that needs to get hold
of the photograph of that celebration because I think that
in particular was really iconic.Oh yeah.
Blasted, blasted. That penalty I've been on to get
rewatched a couple days ago, I wanted to talk about another
player. Well, the player that provided

(08:21):
that ball into Lucy Bronze for the header.
Chloe Kelly, my personal player of the tournament.
We'll talk about that one later or maybe we'll talk about it
now. Chloe Kelly a a tremendous
tournament, Serena Viegman. I think it's going to be hard to
decouple those two because to have a player in that kind of
form that effective, that productive and to be able to

(08:42):
keep her in that role, not disrupt things, but also make
changes other parts of the pitch, you know, to address
other issues with backline etcetera.
Can you talk a little bit about Chloe Kelly's impact on the team
and like, you know, kind of how it permeated out?
I think we need to have a blood test for Chloe Kelly.
I'm not convinced she's as English as she makes out she is,

(09:04):
because all the things that she's doing on a football field
with three lines on her shirt are not traditionally English at
all. And what I mean by that is we as
an English population, having watched all sorts of England
teams over the years, are not used to that level of A
confidence, B ability to strike a football from 12 yards

(09:28):
successfully and C just the the confidence of knowing she's
going to win. Because, and I don't want to
keep harking back, back to the past, but I think it is
relevant, the fact that England have now won back-to-back major
trophies and we in my lifetime had never seen a senior England
team win anything 'cause obviously 1966 was the men's

(09:49):
World Cup. But that's all we talk about.
I've got a photo of it in our downstairs toilet.
I mean, this is all we have as areference point.
But of course most of us weren'tborn then.
And so her mentality is extraordinary, really, truly
extraordinary. And I think it's infectious and
she kept saying in interviews, I'm so proud to be English and I
don't want to get political. But in the last few years we

(10:13):
don't tend to have heard being proud to be English because it
tends to have taken on far rightpolitical implications, which is
crazy, right? And the Welsh so proud to be
Welsh. The national anthem, everybody
in Wales is whether it's rugby, whether it's football, whatever
Scottish bagpipes, thistles, everyone's blue and white and

(10:34):
proud to be Scottish and Irish, et cetera.
And we've been a bit embarrassedto be English 'cause we feel
that when we go abroad that we should probably say we're
British rather than English 'cause it sounds a bit
exclusive. So just giving you an insight
there into kind of the psyche ofEnglish people of the last few
years. But embarrassed to be English.
Maybe our football fans at majortournaments in the men's game

(10:54):
have embarrassed the English andand people who have English
flags up outside their house, you don't know whether they're
just proud of their football team or whether it's a political
statement. So with all this wrapped up in
that, it's very different havingseen and heard Chloe Kelly play
the way she did in the football field and talk the way she did
afterwards with such supreme confidence.

(11:16):
And I personally think it's really refreshing to hear that
because I think it must permeatetowards the rest of the team.
Yes, they're proud to be Englishand yes, they always expected to
come through at the end, whetherthat's entirely true or not,
that sort of level of self-confidence.
And afterwards in the the paradeoutside Buckingham Palace and,
and on the stage, when she said pressure, what pressure?

(11:39):
And she was laughing, of course there was huge amounts of
pressure on taking the winning penalty in the Euro final.
She was being tongue in cheek. Some people have taken that as
an arrogant thing. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no,
she's being English tongue in cheek there.
And she's also enjoying her lifeand she's not being
disrespectful to anybody else. She just has a confidence in
herself, in her right foot and her left foot to deliverable to

(12:01):
come off the bench. She's fine doing that, whereas
others might have sulked. So I think there's so much
wrapped up in Chloe Kelly's performance on and off the field
that it is so fascinating, so, so fascinating to watch.
And I think it's fantastic for her, fantastic for the other
England players and fantastic for women's football as a whole
because again, because of the history of the women's game in

(12:25):
this country, of the game in this country, there has been
almost an apology of English women playing football because
of the band that was ended in 1971.
They've had to fight and it's all been drudgery and it's all
been hard and fighting for airwaves and fighting for a
little slot at the end of a sports bulletin.
And I know because I'm someone who had to fight to get those
lines of copy into sports bulletins.

(12:46):
So this is how it has been and when an English female player
would be interviewed on television, it would always be
the last couple of minutes of a slot and they'd be grateful to
be there. So for these women to have
completely smashed that apart and for the brands and for the
TV companies and the producers to be fighting to get hold of a
lioness, to get them on the sofa, to get them on prime time

(13:08):
television, this is so new. And so to have a player like
that be confident, be full of personality and fully be
deserving to be in that limelight is really something
new. And so, sorry, that's that's
slightly diverting from your question.
But I think it's been really iconic, really refreshing and
absolutely signposting the way forward for the game in this

(13:29):
country, which is people wanna watch these girls, they wanna
watch them and they wanna watch women's football just for it
being football. But in terms of her role coming
off the bench, extraordinary. And I think there were plenty of
people, maybe I'm one of them who maybe thought she might
start the final because she's got energy to burn.
She's got minutes and her legs and and Lauren James had an

(13:50):
injury. She just recovered from it
coming into the tournament. She got a really bad ankle knock
and I think it was the was it the semi finals and had to come
off so and so it played out. She was carrying an injury and
she's a fabulous player. But they got there in the end
and for one player to have have the winning moment, the winning
touch in two tournaments in a row is mind blowing.

(14:14):
I try not to be too, you know, American myopic.
But the way you describe that, Imean, there is there is a pretty
good comparison to be made by a player you referenced earlier in
Megan Rapinoe where, you know, as as you're probably aware, we
have some of these similar political conditions in the

(14:34):
United States where, you know, the person who puts the American
flag out there to your example. You're not sure what kind of
statement that's exactly making.And Megan Rapinoe and and other
obviously plenty of other players of the women's national
team here have like reclaimed that and said like this is, this
is what it means to be an American for us.
And like what like the outlook we have and how the how we see

(14:57):
ourselves. Basically, it's awesome that
Chloe Kelly is kind of, you know, has that for you guys.
And the, the thing about Rapinoethat that Chloe Kelly now has,
has the boat of fides, has the accomplishments, has the
trophies, the moments to back itup.
And so, you know, it's not like you need that to say things
like, Hey, we all belong here and all that stuff.
But it does definitely doesn't hurt and it leads me to this

(15:20):
question. And obviously Dino and I have 0
pull with the FA, but we are demanding that the FA
immediately Commission and buildthe statue for Chloe Kelly.
So Jackie Olli, we have two questions for you here.
One, what do you think the statue pose should be and where
should it be placed? OK, so you've got two options.

(15:42):
I think 1 is of the shirt aroundthe head, but I don't think the
FA, we are still English and quite reserved are going to want
to put up a a statue of a woman in a sports bra.
Berringham Midwick. I don't think that's going to
happen. So it probably won't be the
shirt. The Brandy Chastain moment.
I think it should be the knee up.
Yes. The knee up pose, because that

(16:03):
is distinctive, That's distinctively Chloe.
Yes, it's her routine that gets her into the zone, but it's also
this symbol to the goalkeeper. Don't mess with me, I'm coming
for you. They're in trouble.
I think that's a psychological thing as well and it's it is
iconic. So for me it's the knee up or it
could be the corner flag, but I don't think that that's.

(16:26):
Yeah, not a signature as the theknee up, I think, I think, I
think you nailed it, yeah. I think they are already
commissioning a statue that was already in in process anyway
that was already happening, but now they've got a choice that
2022 that I mean this the the constant between the two is
obviously Chloe Kelly because the winning moment, which is
insane both times. Genuinely imagine her agent this

(16:48):
week. I noticed her agent's e-mail
address on her Instagram, and I thought, imagine, imagine that
e-mail box this week. Let's go.
The price is going up, yeah. Good for her though, you know,
good for her. And I just, I just hope a lot of
the other line s s and non line s s and previous line s s are

(17:09):
also getting a little slice of cake because it's changed very,
very quickly, very, very quickly.
And there's still WSL players having to buy their own boots.
So the gap, my only concern, notto put a dampener on it at all.
It's just a realistic thing. It's I think we have to be a
little bit careful about giving everything of a small pot to a

(17:29):
small group of players who've already got a certain amount of
the adulation and the boot dealsand the everything out else and
then other players still living off maybe 30 grand a year and
buying their own boots and what have you.
I think we need to be a little bit careful about that.
I don't know the answer to that and how it works because market
forces are what they are that you want Lucy Bronze selling

(17:50):
your whatever product at all? I don't know, but good luck to
her. She deserves that, by the way,
So individual, distinctive details, yes, of course you want
Chloe Kelly on whatever it is, and Leah Williamson will have
deals coming out of her ears anyway, so that's not a concern
as to when she's England captain.
Deserves some Lucy Bronze too. But all I'm saying is I hope we
haven't forgotten the other players who also need to fund

(18:12):
living and training and all the rest of it.
Dino, just so I could jump in because, you know, I never miss
an opportunity for this. Jackie, a little background on
me, I'm a labor union guy. So for all the football related
income, that's where a union helps.
Just just, you know, I always got to throw that up.
Let's go cosign Jackie. I went to ask them about and
we're going heavy, heavy Englandhere, so apologies, I know

(18:33):
another. Everything else, by the way, it
just came up with the first. I had I had one more in the
question just because I thought,you know, it was it was a pretty
important moment from a different perspective.
Jess Carter obviously has some, you know, goes through these,
you know, personal struggles with problematic fans and
situations. You know, there's been a lot
discussed about that doesn't play in the semi final, comes

(18:56):
back for the final takes on thatSpain attack and has a great
game. I thought was great was was was
in all the right spots and none of the issues that, you know,
sprung up in that Sweden match and just was like a dependable
defensive piece. And I think some of the
defensive issues that we saw earlier with England just didn't

(19:17):
seem to be there. They they were in the lanes,
they were in the spots, good connectivity defensively.
And I thought Jess Carter havingto overcome all of that and put
together that performance in thefinal just said a ton.
I'm so glad you mentioned Jess. I'm so glad because we could
talk about Lucy Bronze and ChloeKelly all day and but so is
everybody else, right? They kind of speak for

(19:38):
themselves. I'm so glad you mentioned Jess
Carter. What what character?
What a character. What a lovely human for
starters, by the way, which is kind of irrelevant in football,
but she just is a fantastic person.
I could not have been happier for her because when I saw her
name on the team sheet for the final, I was a bit worried for

(19:59):
her, I'll be honest, because of all the abuse that she'd had and
she'd had very nervy moments. We were allowed to critique the
football. OK, These are players at top
level. And I felt really sorry for her
against France because that's not her position.
She doesn't play left back. England didn't have the left
back. Alex Greenwood.
OK, so the France game was horrible for everybody concerned

(20:19):
and. I actually was looking more at
Serena Wiegmann on the France game, I have to be honest,
rather than the players, becausethe players were so far away
from each other. Connecting any pass was so
difficult that needed changing sooner.
So I was looking at Serena and going, why are you not changing
it? Because at least a day Almeida
and Delphine Cascarino would just tap, tap, tap around.

(20:40):
Poor Jess Carter, a man. I felt for the girl.
Change it sooner. So she did change it for the
second game and of course fantastic against the
Netherlands and it, you know, itwas a change.
It was a totally change of vibe and the platform for the rest of
the tournament. And then there was the Sweden
game and again, really nervous early on, giving the ball away
and not just Jess, by the way, but of course being punished

(21:02):
early on. And then the second game,
Stanway, that lost it and everyone's looking at Jess and
then you hear about the racial abuse and you just think, oh,
for God's sake, you, you know, not to be surprised.
And by the way, it's not just Jess.
There's been other players who've been abused, whether
racially or not. They've since said there's a lot
of it online. So it's not just Jess, but she
was the one that bravely spoke out about it.

(21:23):
And so she was in the spotlight.And then the Italy change that
Serena Vegan said was tactical. And I, I do believe her because
there's a lot of height in that side, a lot of Girelli fantastic
with her head and the two Subs off the bench, Cambiagi and
Piomonte, both 5 foot 10. So I was not surprised by that
change of bringing in Esme Morgan at all, and also quite

(21:47):
happy to see Jess just get a bitof downtime after the week she'd
had. So for her to be named in the
starting line up in the final and for Jess to subsequently
perform the way she did, she wasimpeccable alongside Leah
Williamson, who was also outstanding as she was in the
Champions League final. Absolutely huge credit to that

(22:08):
player. Honestly, I've just got so much,
so much credit to hand over to as lots of people have and I
think she deserves to stand out as much as anybody.
She deserves to be talked about as much as anybody because when
she said afterwards, and she's so brutally and beautifully
honest, Jess, she gives lovely interviews and she was kind
enough to speak to me before thethe tournament set up by Fox and

(22:29):
NWSL and Gotham. And she was very honest there as
well, by the way. And for her to speak post match
saying I was terrified when I woke up that morning.
But my teammates rallied around me, believed in me and my
manager believed in me. And I was thinking I'm going to
have to give the performance of my life.
And she did. Wow.
Because if she hadn't, can you even imagine the turn that her

(22:51):
life would have taken if she wasabused that much earlier on in
the tournament, if they'd have lost the final?
Because, I mean, it's easy to make a mistake against Spain.
Can we please be honest about this?
Or it's maybe not even a mistakeif they force you into errors
because of the way they count onyou.
So for her to perform like that,wow.
Honestly, credit kudos. I'm kind of chuckling because

(23:12):
you you, you mentioned it's easyto get criticized versus Spain.
Immediately made me think about the Boma Teagle versus Anne
Catran Berger, where she's like 6 inches off like, and you know,
she's playing smart, just tryingto be a little bit of a step
ahead. Aitana kind of catches her
sleeping. And we saw a criticism of burger
on that play. And I'm like, have you been

(23:33):
watching this tournament? Have you been seeing what, what
this this keeper has been able to do?
And to your point, Spain is justgoing to do that to you if you
leave the the the most micro of crevices.
Well, this is it. We talk about fine margins
always, don't we? I mean, you've got sports
scientists and people talking about the right kind of pillow
and exactly the right thickness to get the right amount of

(23:54):
sleep. We're talking about fine, fine
margins. And that one, obviously, I was
calling that game and that goal.And we didn't expect her to
shoot from there. And, and of course, afterwards,
Ann Katchenberger did hold her hands up.
She said that was my mistake. I was directing traffic in front
of me. I did leave too much space, and
she did. But you can understand why and

(24:16):
she just said it, it was a moment.
But that is the difference, isn't it between top sides.
And I love Germany this tournament, by the way, crazy,
crazy moments for the red cards,particularly the Cutty entry
one. What was she thinking?
But I loved the way they ralliedand that kind of felt pretty
sorry for them in the end. But it is those moments and
that's why Bomatis won a couple of balloon doors is because

(24:37):
those moments are game changing and and also credit to the
staff. One of the other things, I don't
think staff get anywhere near enough credit.
We talk about managers good and bad.
We talk about players good and bad performances.
But what about the hours and hours and hours that analysts
put in? Analysts are not paid anywhere
near as much as head coaches whodo all the press conferences and

(24:59):
what have you. And sometimes maybe not at this
level, but certainly at some club level, men's club level,
some of them working for free orfor not very much.
And I think analysts sometimes deserve huge amounts of credit.
They're working all hours, all days, night and day.
Get me this clip, get me that clip, get me that.
Find me a compilation of this player doing this particular
action. And so the analysts I'd like to

(25:20):
give a a big shout out to for whom life can be very difficult
and they're working late, late, early, early and finding that
little nugget that can be the difference.
And she was told this is what and capturing Burger does.
So those analysts, the goalkeeper coaching and the
analyst who said, actually, we've spotted her do this.
I tell if ever you're in that situation or anyone else, if

(25:42):
you're in that situation to cross, hit it hard and low near
post, just have a go. So yes, credits for my tea, but
also to the analysts. And just, I mean, obviously you
mentioned the two Bolland doors,the best player in the world, I
think by a lot of people's accounts, rightfully so.
Just the ability, the dummy to free up the space.
And I mean, the entire thing is just majestic.

(26:04):
And her ability when she's goingin line there and she just pops
it like so quickly to get so much pace on it.
I mean, we talked about on this show too.
I think most football pundits do.
Your margin for error against Spain is virtually nothing like
you. You just have to get so much
right and you have to hope, you know, for them to get a couple

(26:27):
things wrong. You mentioned this team earlier
who I thought put up the host country, Switzerland, who put up
a good performance against Spain.
You mentioned their young players.
You know, sometimes Dino and I wear your, your, you know,
average American sports fans. We get real excited about things
pretty quickly. I have to think Switzerland, I

(26:47):
love the look of them going into2027 in the World Cup.
I mean, that is unbelievable talent at a young age on their
side. What?
What else did you see from them?Oh, I love Switzerland.
I love them so much because whenI was doing all my prep on them,
I was thinking, oh God, we don'treally want to have a host
nation that's going to bomb out.So I was there with a good pal

(27:09):
of mine in Geneva. What a beautiful place.
But go to Geneva, but safe up the lake, the walks, hire a bike
at the main train station. Oh, God, it's beautiful,
beautiful. Anyway, so I was there and I was
talking to people in cafes and Iwas like, you know, what about
this tournament? They're like to know about it.
No one's really talking about it.
There's no signs, There's no nothing.

(27:29):
And I thought, oh, my God, this is going to be a nightmare.
This is going to be a nightmare because they cut the budget and
there was arguments over that. And and then when I was reading
about the actual team, so I was worried about the tickets and
everything else. And then I was worried about the
actual team and and all I could see was Pierre Zontaga is so
wedded to this back five and it's so negative when you've got
these attacking players. And I was thinking, oh God.

(27:51):
But then I also remember a quotefrom Pierre Zontaga saying judge
me on July the whatever it was, fifth was it whatever it was,
judge me on that day and then second ones.
And then you can see how we do. And fair enough, she was right.
We judged her on the actual playand they weren't defensive.
They were phenomenal. Imam Benny, who missed out on

(28:14):
the World Cup 2 years ago, the age of 16 goes from an ACL
immediately before she was phenomenal in an unfamiliar
position of of right wing back. That's not really her.
Oh my God, I loved watching her.But do you know the player that
really stood out for me? I wonder if we're In Sync here.
Not one of the teenagers who stood out for you in that team.
I mean, I thought for me. Sorry Dino, I jumped you there.

(28:35):
No, no, you nailed it. I was going to give Leavalti the
shout out for also doing some promotional marketing work for
the tournament. Oh, I.
Thought she was fabulous, all ofit as well, wasn't she?
Absolutely. Yeah, she.
Definitely called things down. But Roy Tiller, were you?
Were you heading towards Roy Tiller?
I was. Saying Roy Tiller, I loved
Geraldine Reuter, particularly in the earlier games against

(28:58):
Norway in it. I mean, they were really unlucky
and now I but definitely reuteler when she was in a more
advanced role. I particularly enjoyed her and I
I kind of want to watch her every week.
So I'm thinking is she really happy at I'm Trac Frankfurt?
How did she feel about going to either the WSL or the NWSLI?
Don't really mind which and thena friend of mine goes apparently
she's really happy there. Drat.

(29:20):
I just don't watch them as awfulas I as I would elsewhere.
I just love watching her dynamism and she can shoot from
distance that she could the final ball.
How many times in football do wego final ball is what's letting
this team down. And she's happiness at that.
And she's strong and she's everywhere and she's fit and
she's. Yeah.
And then later on in the tournament towards the knockout

(29:42):
stages, then she was having to play a couple of games in a
deeper role because she's so brilliant.
She did a job for the team, but she didn't get to stand out as
much. So I thought she really held
them together. But.
And I loved seeing a Pilgrim offthe bench.
They just had all these junk andher story as well.
And she used to work for a medical organization's cycle to

(30:02):
training. And all these players have come
through so many different situations that involve not
being professional from birth, like some of the lads are.
And they've found their way, They've got the degrees, they've
had to persuade their mum to letthem go and play football
because the mum doesn't think it's a there's any future in it
and all the rest of it. And she was one of them.
So many great stories. But I loved, loved Switzerland,

(30:24):
loved reason at left wing back as well and velted for all her
off field, on field. And I loved the way she her
positioning was phenomenal and she'd had a difficult time at
Arsenal with injury and lost herplace.
So for her to be so key in that midfield and the way the way she
played was, I loved watching Switzerland really did.
Yeah, couldn't agree more. I mean, you know, I live here in

(30:46):
Seattle, so seeing Serna Gorsuvich out there and getting
like at her at the point she is in her career kind of
shepherding these young players and we've gone all this time and
we haven't. I don't think we've yet said the
name Sydney shirt and Libe who when you know, Dino and I
covering we're primarily a Women's Champions League show.
But Dino and I again, we something you could people can

(31:10):
accuse us of the hyperbole. Sometimes we think shirt and
Libe has a ball on door ceiling.Do we need to relax a little
bit? And we know it's, it's tough to
put expectations on a young player, but she's amazing,
Jackie. Yeah, I thought she was
fantastic. I think, I mean, she's so young
and she's at such a big club andI I was kind of fascinated by
her story that she was actually tapped up by by by this staff at

(31:34):
Barcelona. They they slid into a DMS and
and asked her if she was interested in joining them.
I was thinking a little bit naughty.
But anyway, yeah, so loved watching her play it.
My only thing that I was gettingfrustrated about, I was talking
to Laurie about this off air andshe wasn't anywhere near as
bothered about it as I was. And she's 5 foot 10 and taking
corners. I'm thinking, yeah, her

(31:56):
deliveries are great, but there are other players who don't have
that heightened presence in the box and the ability to finish
who perhaps they could take the corners.
But this is just a, a silly minor thing.
But the fact is she's capable ofof doing everything.
And I think with her developmentwill come the decision making at
the vital moment. And there were a few times in
the first couple of games when she was going it alone and her

(32:17):
teammates were going nuts because they were better placed.
But that will come with time andexperience.
And as you rightly say, very high ceiling.
No idea whether it's Balandor ceiling.
Hopefully so, because she's so young and getting such good and
coaching that hopefully that will be the case.
But absolutely love what she'd offered.
And my only disappointment aboutSwitzerland is the fact that

(32:40):
they're pretty much all playing abroad.
And so when the new season kicksin, the excitement that Swiss
football fans will have for their team is going to kind of
have to be reserved for either watching them in the league on
TV or for international matches.And hopefully there'll be a
massive hike of home matches andinternationals, which they're

(33:02):
not maybe used to. And that would be great.
But whereas in NWSL you've got aa bunch of players returning and
also from WAFCON, et cetera, andCopa here in the WSL in this
country, it would be great to see some of these players.
And Elena Lenari's just signed for London City Lionesses and
they're going to be really interesting next season.
Yeah, what a fantastic signing, by the way, because she was one

(33:24):
of the players I absolutely loved watching for Italy, who
we've not mentioned yet, and maybe we will, but I I thought
she was brilliant. So to see those Swiss players be
so exciting but really not particularly be heading back to
the Swiss league is a shame. But maybe conversely that will
have an impact on the Swiss clubs going.

(33:45):
OK, right, We're going to investmore, speculate to accumulate.
We can see the potential of the women's game and it is, we know
it comes back to investment because you invest in young
players in scouting and coachingand medical treatment.
If you invest in young talent, then you're giving these female
players a platform to be the best they can be.
And the talent pool across the world is vast, of course, and

(34:08):
we're only really seeing the cream of the crop in areas where
those players have been able to thrive.
And and I cast my mind back to the great, great Kelly Smith,
who was unable to stay in England and at home in Watford
where she wanted to be with her dad, her mum, her brother, who
she adored. She couldn't do that.
She had to go to America and wasat Seton Hall and was horribly

(34:30):
homesick and became alcoholic and all these things because she
couldn't kick a ball every day in this country.
So things have changed on that front.
But you want players in every country to be able to stay in
their country if they want to, to be able to live in their home
village if they want to and still be professional
footballers as the guys can. Although of course they travel

(34:50):
too and but you just want there to be the coaching of a high
standard available to these girls from a young age so they
don't have to travel across the country like Lauren Hemp did at
the age of 16, had to leave Norwich for Bristol City.
You want that to change so that there are these professional
hubs nearby, all these players across the world.
We'll get there eventually, but it is a process.

(35:11):
Yeah, absolutely. Very well, said Jackie.
And I know you're speaking from a little bit of experience.
I know you, you played a little ball in your past as well.
What kind of player was Jackie Oatley or is was there a player
in the tournament that represented, you know, you know,
Jackie Oatley's skills on the pitch that you're just like that
player and me, if that, like if I, if I was in that tournament,

(35:33):
that's what I would be doing. That's exactly how I'd want to
be playing. Yeah, they're all on the bench
and never saw a moment of action, so they would want to
represent me. I was wholehearted.
Should we put it that way? I was very much wholehearted.
I understood the game, but because I didn't have it,
genuinely didn't have a club to play for or anyone to play with
because literally nobody played.Even my brother hated football,

(35:55):
so I literally had to buy a football and practice keeping up
his myself, kick a ball against the garage door.
That was literally it. And so it was only when I went
to university aged 17 that I could join a team and have
coaching. So and I was no loss to anybody
genuinely. But I, I did play in the Greater
London League and that's when I got injured badly.
And then, you know, I can't evenrun anymore sadly, because it

(36:16):
was such a horrible permanent injury to my kneecap.
No, I can't compare myself to literally any of these players
because genuinely somebody who didn't play and was injured all
the time, I would say, but no, Iwas right sided midfielder and I
just, I just love the game. But I would love to have had
opportunities. Like my kids now are 11 and 14
and they're literally out playing football in the park now

(36:39):
and they get fabulous coaching from a local coaching school,
both of them for the same coaches different days and at
school, just brilliant coaching and as much opportunities as
they want. And it's just fantastic level of
coaching and they focus on the people put first and how you
behave and being a good teammate, as well as excellent
actual skills coaching and so that they enjoy it.

(37:01):
And that's, that's just amazing Now, So, but no, to answer your
question, nobody. Fair enough.
She won't take the steps to compare herself to Geraldine
Reuteler. Oh, I'd love to go.
I'd love to go to bronze type. Yeah, maybe somebody, but
definitely somebody who's wholehearted and maybe somebody
who understood the game but maybe tried to make the best of

(37:24):
the little ability they had. Maybe that?
You're preaching to the choir onthat one, Jackie.
So we, we've mentioned in passing Italy a couple times,
Obviously, you know, they make the semi final, they beat Norway
on their way there. We talked about Girelli, what
and you know about being wholehearted.
Also, what were the hallmarks ofthis Italian side that you

(37:48):
noticed throughout the tournament?
I loved Italy, loved them, absolutely loved Italy.
I loved the fact that they've only been professional for three
years. Well, I don't love that, but I
love the fact they achieved whatthey did Despite that.
Do you know what I'm saying? The fact their league has has
been very belated and we're seeing this across the board, by

(38:09):
the way, around the world of leagues of federations
traditionally, let's be brutallyhonest about this, pretty
sexist. It it's just being honest,
right? We, we see it still in South
America, we see it still in so many countries, some pretty
close to home as well that are very, very belatedly the cogs

(38:30):
are whirring. Oh, actually, if girls and women
play football in a coach at an early age, or maybe they can
play, maybe this can be a commercial operation.
But Oh my God, it's been exhausting trying to get people
to see the light on that front. So belatedly, so the Italian
league went professional three years ago and teams like
Juventus very belatedly coming to the party, I think it's 2017,

(38:53):
Roma 2018, etcetera. And so now we're seeing the
fruits of that, Juventus now having won the league for 1/6
time after Roma had won it for acouple of years in a row.
And every single one of those Italian players had played in
the Italian league last season, which I thought was interesting.
But also, where do they go from here?

(39:14):
So just seeing Lunari now havingsigned for London City,
Lionesses Caruso had been on loan at Bayern Munich for half
season, has moved there, Sofia Cantori going to Washington
Spirit, really interesting. I think it'd be good for their
development to have football experiences in different leagues
and different cultures. But and ask your question about
what I liked about them. I always love a team that is
greater than the sum of their parts, that is United, that is

(39:38):
playing the philosophy of their coach and I love the work that
Andrea Sanchin did. He didn't have a huge track
record. You look at his CV and go, OK,
lower league striker in his day.He's 46 now and he done a bit of
coaching, was interim at men's second division club a couple of

(39:58):
times, what have you, and let's see what he's got.
But listening to the players, researching the players, the
quotes, watching them, you couldsee that they play to his
tactical philosophy, and they are very tactical.
So they would change their formation and the way they play
and their personnel depending onthe opposition.
And I loved what they offered onthat front.

(40:19):
I was a huge admirer of Christiana Jarelli.
She's my kind of player. Not in terms of how I play, by
the way, because we need to leave that theory because nobody
there played like me. But I loved what she had, the
passion, the emotion, the leadership, the armband, her
goals. Oh my God, I just thought she
was phenomenal. And listening to why the coach

(40:41):
talked about her and her response in an interview when
she was told about the coach's quotes about how she has not had
what she deserves on the field or off the field in terms of the
limelight, the recognition and how close they were against
England was genuinely heartbreaking.
I mean, yes, of course, fantastic what England managed

(41:02):
to do and turning it around and of course Azumang is a wonderful
story. But conversely, I was absolutely
devastated for Italy. Really, really devastated
because they were so close and because of what it meant in
their home country. And they had 10 million viewers
on Ride One, which is on in every front room of the country.

(41:22):
And this is new to them. And they are annoyingly still
playing for recognition in a waythat US women just don't even
have to think about. You don't even have to think
about that because that is not what happens in America.
That's not how people think about women playing football.
They think of women for certain things in Italy and in Brazil
and in parts of South America and other parts of the world

(41:43):
because it's a patriarchal society and football is for men
and women are there to look pretty and do what have you
traditionally in the past. And so they're having to drag
their nation out of those stereotypes and historical
tropes, if you like. So that's why it meant so much.

(42:04):
And the tears of Jarelli I couldn't quite cope with because
it was just so sad and all thoseplayers had given so much and
it's just a sad way to lose. But but bigger picture,
fantastic that they won you admirers, fantastic that the
little girls will see that and want to play.
Fantastic. The little boys will see that
and think it's normal for skillsto play and all those aspects

(42:26):
that now involve that country really kicking on, hopefully
after this really kicking on because they've proven they have
fantastic talent. And I love the fullbacks.
I love the Guli Elmo and I lovedOliviero and I love the fact
they took the lead against Spainand the celebrations and and I
love Giuliano's pieces and there's just so much about them

(42:46):
to like. And Severini had horrible time,
bless her in the in the semi final, but she'll come back,
She's only 22, she'll be a fantastic player.
So, so much to look forward to from them.
Dina, I, I just want to make a, a quick point on the television
stuff because I'm, I'm so glad you mentioned this, Jackie,
There there was a point, I thinkit was earlier this year.

(43:08):
I think it was either, you know,late 2024, early 2025, where a
Syria femoneal match was broadcast in America on the CBS
Sports Network And it was in high definition.
And there were, there were like multiple camera angles and we
came on the show and we're like,yes, all these television
executives stop being dopes. Put these matches on television

(43:30):
because what do you know, if youput them on TV, people will
watch, you will win over, you know, new fans, the people who
are already huge fans want to watch these games.
It just seems like, like you said, the patriarchal societies
who kind of like held this sportdown.
Now they just have to realize they, they can't let those,
those stupid biases get in the way of people want to watch

(43:54):
this. This is great sport, like the
investment that Fox put into broadcasting the Euro.
Like it pays off. Like if football is the biggest
sport in the world, doesn't it stand to reason that women's
football is going to go along that same path?
You're obviously preaching to the converted here, but yes, I
do agree with you. But I think the key thing is how

(44:17):
the game has grown and developedto now be very much a spectator
sport. Because when I first started
covering it in 2000 and four, 2005 was my first major
tournament, the women's EUR herein England, which was just
concentrated in a small area of the Northwest because that's
where the marketing budget went to try to focus on that area.
Now those players weren't professional.

(44:38):
Those players weren't able to goand train all day everyday with
medical treatment and physios and everything they needed to be
the best they could be. And I remember speaking to a
very, very senior executive at the national broadcaster here
and saying it, you know, over the over those years and saying,
look, you know, please can you put WSL on TV?
You put the women's leagues on TV.

(44:59):
And she said, well, we can't because we're competing with
other leagues where they're moreof a spectator sport.
And I can't really show empty stadia.
I can't really say, well, I'm just going to show women's
football because there's nobody watching.
And, and I kind of knew what shemeant.
I did understand the competing, you know, rivalry of these
different sports where they've got full stadia here.
And you're saying, no, we're notgoing to show that.

(45:20):
We're going to show empty stadium.
And so I think basically the progression of the women's game
now and this tournament has really shone a light on the
standard. The standard now thanks to
gradual development and implementation of all those
things. We've talked about the

(45:40):
investment of the leagues being better, of the medical treatment
being better, the sports sciencebeing better.
So therefore the players being better.
And some of them, the older players such as as the Lucy
Bronze and certainly in the Sweden team and they had loads
and loads of 30 + 3538 year olds.
Those players weren't always professional and their bodies
have had to catch up. And so this tournament really

(46:01):
has shown everybody that not only is women's football at a
level whereby it is a spectacle that people want to watch, but I
think the full stadia, 29 of the31 matches were sold out in a
country that is not even a football country, OK.
It borders lots of football countries like Germany being a
big one. And they sold 10s of thousands

(46:22):
tickets, you know, the French and everybody else.
It was fantastic. Italians as well as Spanish or
put to English, my God travelledin there.
However, many 10s of thousands, so seeing that on TV, the
standard plus the full stadia, the storylines, the
personalities, the players that have those personalities, the
Chloe Kelly's seeing all that. That is all tick box that says

(46:48):
we need to put this on TV and studios.
So seeing Fox and having worked with Fox since Qatar 2022 and
seeing them do the women's world, being part of the Women's
World Cup in Australia and New Zealand with Laurie was just
extraordinary. And, and having breakfast with
Carli Lloyd and all these US legends who they've brought in

(47:10):
to bring the best of their experience to tell the stories
and to analyse is fantastic. It makes it television you want
to watch. Whereas if you're just sticking
a national, you know, an international broadcaster on
television going watch that withno analysis, you're not giving
it the full treatment. But that's what they've been
doing and that's what they did here, you know, with Ari Hinks,
with Leon Sanderson, with, with Carly, with Jan Beattie, who was

(47:33):
fantastic and hugely popular with the viewers as well and Stu
Holden and all the other guys. You know, it was and, and Jules
breach, of course. And the studio set is
incredible. You know, I didn't even go in
there once, but the studio set is incredible.
And then having John and JP and and Laurie and all these guys on
commentary and, and analysing, analysing, analysing, this is

(47:54):
all telling a story that you should be watching this stuff.
And then when you do watch it, you're thinking I want to watch
the next game because I'm drawn in by the storylines, by the the
talent, the personalities, the everything about it.
And I can only see the women's game going one way.
And I'm not saying that from a position of bias because it's my
sport. No, I'm a football fan.

(48:15):
I'm not an England fan or a women's football fan.
I'm just a football fan and a football journalist and a
football broadcaster. Saying it like it is just giving
my opinion on what I see and what I'm seeing is the explosion
of the women's game, which genuinely I've always predicted
and should always have happened and should have happened much

(48:36):
sooner. But OK, we're getting there and
there's still a long way to go, but at least everyone else is
seeing it now and we are gettingthe investment.
It's only going to get bigger and better.
And when those countries do in Italy and do a Switzerland and
invest in those players and invest in those leagues, my
goodness, Portugal I think will be the next one.

(48:56):
Are you telling me there's not an incredible talent pool
waiting to be liberated from theshackles of not having a local
club or not having decent coaching or not having a, you
know, decent setup to go into? My goodness, wait till Portugal
does a spade and look at the struggle Spain I've had.
This is Spain with all the talent.
Look, the struggles they've had,maybe they're still having, we

(49:17):
don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but I doubt it's
perfect. It's not going to become perfect
in a couple of years, is it? So all these countries, once
they, it's not just invest, but once you flick a switch of the
mindset of OK, what these players can be when we give them
the tools to succeed, it's goingto be extraordinary, honestly.
And the EUR and the World Cups and the coppers and the WAF cons

(49:40):
and everything. It's going to be incredible.
You bring up so many great, great points, Jackie.
I wanted to talk about the last.My trade about that was like it.
Oh my goodness. Yes, you're talking with
amateurs, Jackie. It's all right.
I'm so sorry. A couple things I wanted to talk
about the, the goalkeeping you mentioned, like the plan, the

(50:01):
pitch getting elevated. I thought the goalkeeping was
the, the 1st place that I was like, wow, this is different.
Whether it's got that goy, Hannah Hampton, Jennifer Falk,
Katra Burger. We mentioned the preparation,
the dexterity, some of the savesthat we saw, some of the double
saves. I thought it was on a, on
another level. We talked about Katagoy from

(50:23):
Spain specifically because that's a player that just
doesn't get a lot of action playing for Barcelona, playing
for Spain gets called into, you know, gets called into it a few
times a match and it's usually later in the tournament, you
know, if, if you're Spain. So that's so, so tough to do,
but I wanted to pivot a little bit and ask you, you've covered
obviously a ton of football, youknow, their first years to

(50:45):
22,520 years ago. I think I think I've got that
right. So you've seen it all and you've
seen a ton of growth in the game.
If I ask you a singular performance from a player or a
team where you're just like, I cannot believe I just watched
that on the women's side. Where do you go for just like
the most like couldn't believe Iwas in the building for that.

(51:06):
Couldn't believe I was calling that.
That's something that I think sits in the in that top
position. Just the stickiest moment that
I'm going to remember as a commentator.
Oh my goodness, Oh my goodness. Oh, I sound like Annie Little
off Nanny then. Big picture question.

(51:27):
Oh, I'm just trying to rattle through the Rolodex of my mind
of every two years of these tournaments.
Well, something stuck in my mindwhen you were just talking about
20 years ago was Karen Carney's late winner in the opening match
against Finland, EUR 2005, when she was 20.
She was 17. And that was my first national

(51:47):
commentary. I think it was.
Was it? I think it was.
And yeah, and she ran off swearing her head off and got
into trouble because she's 4. And now Karen's obviously a
pundit now, but she's still the youngest ever goal scorer at the
Euros. And that, that was huge because
we wanted people to watch and wewanted people to listen and we
wanted women's football to be taken note of back then.

(52:11):
So that was huge in front of a big crowd at Manchester City
Stadium. Oh gosh, I'm, I'm really
struggling to pick one out. I'm really, really struggling to
pick one out. So I've got the recent device of
this amazing tournament in my mind.
True, I can't really pick one out, but this is really bad
podcasting by trying to think live.

(52:32):
So what I'm going to say just for the moment, it's not the
most extraordinary moment in thehistory of women's football at
all. But just for the moment, I'm
just going to say that's saved by Anne Katrin Berger, because
you alluded to it there when youtalked about the goalkeeping now
for all these years and bearing in mind have been a a football
fan for a long, long, long, longtime before I changed a career
to do this job and the whole, you know, women football, blah,

(52:56):
blah, blah in this country, very, very boring and the stick
you get and you must be a tomboyand you just like this is
utterly insane. People always talked about the
goalkeepers and it always used to annoy me because hang on a
minute, the goalkeepers didn't get any goalkeeper coaching.
How can you judge them compared to a men's goalkeeper when you
got Rachel Brown, Finnis who? Or Rachel Brown as she was never

(53:18):
to an England goalkeeper the time who wasn't?
Yes, she was getting goalkeeper coaching belatedly, but she
never grew up having top level goalkeeper coaching.
And yet you're judging her on the same level as Peter Shilton
or David Seaman. I mean, let's just get real
about this for goodness sake. So that used to annoy me so
much. And even though sometimes people

(53:38):
had a case of you're just literally watching a game and
there's a goalkeeper error, and you would just think, you just
know the whole of women's football is being judged by that
one goalkeeper error in that moment.
And it's insane. But it was true.
That's what was happening. So when Anne Katrinberger did
that, I think she put a massive tick in the box for women's
goalkeeping all over the world. Because in that moment, you're

(54:03):
hopefully not thinking, oh, a woman's just leapt in the air
and just clawed a ball back off from what looked like behind the
line because surely she'd have scored an own goal.
And that's going to be devastating for Germany.
And they're going out of the tournament.
And she pulled off the impossible.
And I just think that was an extraordinary moment.
I honestly do. And I think that'll be shown
back for years and years and years and years and years.

(54:25):
And again, some people are having to be reminded or or
demonstrated what is possible for female athletes.
And I think in that moment, she probably just gave a huge shot
in the arm for female athletes, full stop.
It was incredible. But yeah, I can't believe a
bigger moment than that because Germany used to win everything.
So they didn't really used to stick in my mind because we were

(54:45):
just used to Germany winning everything.
I'm so used to the the trophy lifts of them over the years
but. Yeah, that that makes sense in
you've been incredibly generous with your time, Jackie.
We we very much appreciate it. We can't you you talk about the
growth of the game. You talk about all these
legendary players. Karen Carney, Chicago Red Stars
legend. For what it's worth, I was like
to point out that when they comeover to the USA, we have to ask.

(55:10):
We, we've said it multiple timesfor all of our pals who who
watch the show, we're massive Lori Lindsey fans and you know,
she is like your regular partner, whether it is NWSL
matches or, or these matches in the Euro Women's World Cup
matches. You guys have such a great
chemistry. You know, we know what she
brought as a player, her experience there.

(55:32):
And you know, with your experience as a, as a
journalist, kind of seeing Lori Lindsay go from player to to
pundit to to color commentator. What is it?
And this is probably a broad question, too, but, like, what
is it about Lori Lindsay that makes her so damn good on these
broadcasts with you? Well, she needs to press stop
now. If she's watching or listening
to this, she needs to press stopbecause it's going to go to her

(55:53):
head. No, she, I'll tell you what it
is, I think. I think what it is is a just
understand that she understands the game.
She genuinely understands football and was a fantastic
player. That helps.
But that's not the be all and end all be.
I think she wants to analyse andI think over many, many years,
20 plus years or whatever, I've worked with all manner of

(56:15):
different Co commentators, male and female, what have you.
And some would much rather be inthe studio because it's it's a
different vibe you're on for less time.
Maybe it's just a different thing.
Whereas to be in doing Co commentary, you have to really
want to do it because it involves a lot more prep, a lot
more in depth prep, a lot more watching back.

(56:35):
If you had to do it properly, you need to analyse patterns of
play, you need to know a bit about the coach and you need to
listen to the quotes and what does he or she want from the
team. You need to know what you're
looking out for. So I think she's really good at
doing that, that she wants to doit and spends the time revising
for an exam if you like, becauseevery time we go on air as
commentators, it's effectively an exam and all the prep that

(56:57):
you're doing is you'll revision for an exam.
And every time we go on air, we want to ideally pass with flying
colours that we don't know what's quite going to come up on
the exam paper, of course. And, and I think it's the same
with Laurie that she spends thattime researching and analysing
in advance and we talk a boatload off air.
And particularly in the first week of the tournament and

(57:19):
before it, we were going throughall the different teams and
going through what we knew. And we always going through in
advance with our little pal MattBastat, a guy called Matthew
Plachek who's just fabulous. He's, he's going to be a great
commentator or coach or whatever.
He's going to be himself and we go through all our thoughts

(57:40):
about what's going to happen in the game and she'll always come
at it from an analytical point of view and we'll always talk
about say key match ups and in a, you know, that side could be
really interesting. Lucy Bronze against whoever.
That's going to be brilliant. And we'll try and pick things
out for the audience. And then in game she analysis
and analysis. And I'm sure you 2 are the same.
When you're watching tons of football matches, you don't want

(58:02):
the colour analysts or the Co commentator or whatever they're
called to say something really obvious that you can see.
You really want them to say something that you actually
hadn't thought of. You can see who's on top, you
can see who's got most of the ball.
But why are the opposition not responding?
Is it because the team that's dominating possession?

(58:23):
Usually Spain are so fantastic or do we give credit to the
defending or you know, what's happening in this game.
So I think I think it's that it's she's just a very good
analyst who does her homework, who knows what to expect, knows
where the players are, right footed, left footed, knows what
they're trying to do in the gamefrom a tactical point of view
and will always come armed with information to know what to look

(58:44):
out for and then will give an opinion.
I think that's really important too, especially in women's
football. I think it's really hard,
particularly for women. I really do, because it's quite
a small world. And if you're commentating on
players you used to play for, that must be horrendous.
And I think if you're or even ina studio, but if they're
players, maybe you don't know orthey're not going to be watching

(59:05):
back that night, maybe it's a little bit easier.
But you do have to say if it's amistake by a goalkeeper.
And I think in the women's game,that is really important and
Laurie will do that. But it's never anything
personal. It's always, it's always
analytical about the actual game.
And I think women's players wantthat now, I think, and she
obviously does men's football aswell in in MLS for Apple.

(59:26):
But you have to analyze what you're seeing.
It's never personal, it's never vindictive.
It's just analysing football matches.
And I think people respect that.And that's why she's getting
tons of work everywhere. So she should.
Well, we definitely appreciate your guys work.
Who, who would have thought you and Lori Lindsay touch tight
just getting it done. Jackie, you've been incredibly

(59:46):
gracious with your time. We really, really appreciate it.
I, I got to apologize in advance.
We do a fun thing on the show. We talk a little bit about, you
know, the commentary, you know, just because we, we get
especially excited when we see something that the the
commentator sees as well. We're like, oh, yeah, we're on
it. But we do a weird thing where we
refer to you as goatly. As an offshoot of GOAT, it's

(01:00:08):
like GOAT greatest of all time. I hope that's not offensive.
Sometimes people do get offendeda little bit when there's
there's a little bit of that. I've never heard that one before
and I don't think I'll ever hearit again, but thank you.
Well, Jackie, really appreciate the time.
Thank you so, so much for joining us.
Great work by you and the entireteam.

(01:00:28):
Oh, there you go. You really made the tournament
pretty special for us. That's my voice.
Say hi to Jackie Oatley. What a way to finish what?
I think we're, I think he's telling me the show's over.
I'm so soppy. That's the.
Cutest Jackie, we appreciate it.Thank thank you for for rocking
with us. Thank you, Grant, thank you

(01:00:48):
Dino. Absolute pleasure and thanks so
much for having me on. Thanks for watching as well.
Likewise, thanks to everybody for checking out the show.
I'll just get to the outro rightnow.
Thanks for always leaving comments on the videos and we
will see you all next time.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 JACQUI OATLEY on England and EURO 2025's Best Moments | EP 160