Ep. #755: Patrick Sherman & James Goodall – Drones or misidentified aircraft?

The wave of reported drone sightings across the country remains officially unexplained with questions persisting about what these objects are, who owns them, and their purpose. Jeremy welcomes Patrick Sherman to discuss how drones function and whether these sightings are misidentified aircraft. James Goodall shares insights on his experience with Lockheed Skunk Works craft and speculates on the potential missions of the drones.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Five four three two one.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
We interrupt our program to bring you this important message.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
A confirmed attack is taking place against the United States.
Aliens from an unknown location have been reported in multiple states.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
We are controlling transmission.

Speaker 4 (00:24):
There is another world that awaits, far beyond what we
can see and feel, of a place that's anything but ordinary.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Would you believe.

Speaker 5 (00:35):
I do not think.

Speaker 6 (00:38):
Step into the song of the first time, know the
take conspiracies and cover into the pair read not a
weegogo with charities.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
From the dark depths of a secret dungeon somewhere deep
in the remote Pacific Northwest. In case you're wondering, friends,
the UFO drones, as I will call them now to
differentiate from say, flying saucers or triangle UFOs, the ones

(01:19):
we are most familiar with, so I'll call them UFO drones.
They are still happening, still getting reports. I'm still seeing videos.
In fact, the majority of messages in my social media
inboxes and email are of people you know, just like
you and I, who want to know the who, the what,

(01:41):
and the why. And we've you know, discussed these incursions
quite a bit over the past few months. Tonight, though,
we are going to talk with two people who know
their stuff when it comes to drones and identifying aircraft.
As I told my guest as we were getting ready
for his segments, I would rather talk to people who

(02:04):
have actually flown drones and aircraft, certainly valuing their opinion.
I would rather talk to them than somebody who's never
once taken any courses or gotten behind the controls or
anything like that, who just has an opinion on what

(02:25):
these are or what these are not. So to get
us started, I was considering what we would talk about.
Of course, tonight on the program, it came across a
comment in fact from Tennessee Congressman Tim Burchett, And of course,

(02:46):
if you know who he is, he has been a
big proponent on the UFO disclosure fight through proceedings in Congress. Well,
he also went on a podcast that was talking about drones.
And this isn't just a nothing statement from the congressman.

Speaker 7 (03:07):
Now they know they can pretty much just fly in
over our military and when these are over military installations,
some of these drones they can fly in without any
notice without anybody firing a shot literally, and they know
they can do that, and so I would warn people
they're still the drones are still out there and they're
still flying, but our media is not, for whatever reason,

(03:29):
is not covering it anymore.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
And we better get a.

Speaker 7 (03:31):
Grip on it because that could that is a component
of the next war that we will fight.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah, they can, they can fly in and we don't
bat an eye and this is where the next war
is going to be fought. Some chilling words from Congressman
Burchette there, He's right, people are still seeing these. I
mean it's they're they're not going away. It is not

(04:00):
New Jersey either. Right after the New Jersey sidings began,
it actually happened at three Royal Air Force spaces, and
since then, the UFO drones have been spotted in many
cities across the US and several countries as well. The
people have seen these in public places, near military facilities,

(04:23):
around airports. We're talking about restricted airspace here. Now. Last
time I checked, it was illegal to intrude into restricted airspace,
and yet it has been allowed to occur over and
over for several months now. These people have impunity. They

(04:52):
they can fly in and we don't do anything about it.
And who knows if they are here to look at
our nuclear facilities who knows if these are our own drones,
and if we're you know, doing some sort of bomb

(05:12):
surveillance or whatnot. I mean, the fact of the matter
is these objects are unexplained. They remain unexplained. It's been
going on for months, and now we're talking about restricted
airspace and it continues to go on. What happened to

(05:38):
the threats from the authorities. You know that they were
going to use deadly force, which of course I thought
was a bad idea. If you shoot one of these
things down, especially over a populated area, there's going to
be collateral damage. And what if they are not unmanned.
If we believe they are unmanned and we shoot them

(06:00):
down and they are the size, as some people say,
of a school bus or an suv or a small car,
and this thing, you know, spills debris over a populated area,
there's going to be collateral damage from that. And if
you're wrong and these are powered by I don't know,

(06:21):
a human or an extraterrestrial, an adversary or whatnot, and
then we have blood on our hands. And it's a
very very sticky, messy situation. Now, remember there was this
no fly order and last I checked it's still in
place in New Jersey and New York, and yet I

(06:42):
am still seeing videos online of these supposed UFO drones
but no action. A excellent source through this has been
the National UFO Reporting Center, who has been tracking the
reports and posting them online, and as of January third,

(07:03):
they document two hundred and seventy eight reports specifically rated
related to what people are describing as drones, dating back
to November the fifteenth, so we're talking about multiple reports
that are coming in nearly just about every day. The
center has received reports from Argentina, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Germany, Hungary, Lithuania, Norway, Sweden,

(07:31):
and the United Kingdom as well, and in so doing,
because they're so good at taking ordinary data on UFOs,
primarily flying saucers and triangles and those kinds of objects,
they've been able to categorize and come up with the
trends which are very important here. In many of these

(07:55):
there are sightings of large number of craft that are
seemingly operating together, and this has been reported repeatedly to
the National UFO Reporting Center. Also, witnesses say that despite
looking like drones, which are usually easy to hear, when

(08:16):
they're close by. These craft are silent, and they also
say that they have been barraged with recent reports of
glowing orbs that maneuver intelligently and often approach to a
very close distance. So we're talking about drones attracting the

(08:37):
attention of a ball of energy from who knows what
orbs in conjunction with drones and the behavior they certainly
are not ordinary. For instance, when you look at these
size as has been reported, some of these they say
are the size of cars or SUVs, some you know,

(09:01):
as big as a school bus. So I wonder if
that's people's perception or if that isn't. Indeed, what is
going on tonight? Are these drones? Are they misidentified aircraft?
We'll talk about that tonight. Somewhere between the paranormal and
the abnormal. I'm Jeremy Scott's, Patrick Sherman, James goodall our
guests tonight stick with us.

Speaker 5 (09:56):
Into the paranormal parm.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
This certainly fits in between the paranormal and the abnormal.
I want to go over some of more of these
characteristics that are being reported in some of these UFO
or excuse me, these UFO drone reports. I'm not safe
with the calling them drones, they are still unidentified. Nobody
has said that these are for sure drones. We talked

(10:40):
about the size of them. Also, the speed is very
interesting because in some of these cases, these drones have
actually outrun police drones who have tried to go out
and get some answers as to what these things are,
where they're coming from, why they're here, you know, the
questions that we all want to know, and yet they

(11:02):
can't keep up. Also, they appear to be quite stealthy,
turning their lights off when approached. They seem to be
aware of what's going on around them and or responding accordingly,
So that says there's some sort of intelligence there, whether
it's man or not. The fact that these drones, if
they are above two hundred and fifty grams, are required

(11:23):
to broadcast identification and location data and yet do not
is interesting. In one case, the Ocean County Sheriff's office
observed that the drones were emitting no heat, making them
impossible to see with r a thermal anomaly there. And
also they have been reported to interfere with car clocks,

(11:49):
also cell phones. We played you the clip a couple
of weeks ago about what it was doing to someone's
car radio. They were listening to Christmas music and then
off it went and this weird noise, uh played it played. Okay,
now we'll get a request for that. I'll have to
dig that up for later in the show. Up to

(12:09):
fifty drones in one report were cited in coordinated flight patterns,
and the number of reports now is in the thousands.
Just of these drone reports, UFO drones which are able
to stay aloft for hours, suggesting that they they've got

(12:29):
something powering them that supersedes you know, what would be
considered a hobby drone or even a small commercial drone.
Now I'm not the expert on that, but good thing
is I know where to find one or two. Patrick
Sherman is a pioneer in the drone industry. It's fifteen
years of operational experience flying small civilian uncrewed aircraft systems

(12:54):
what we might call you as. He is an award
winning educator, noted author, engaging speaker, Assistant Professor of the
Practice at the Embry Riddle Aeronautical University Worldwide campus, the
College of Aviation, Department of Flight. That is a long title.
Patrick is a certified Level three Remote Pilot instructor. He's

(13:16):
logged more than six hundred hours of UAS flight time.
Is the author of several books and more than two
hundred published articles about drones and their applications. Patrick, Welcome
to the program.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Thanks so much, glad to be here.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
What do you have to say about all these reports
of drones in the sky and these are drones, if
they are drones that are impeding the most sensitive airspace
known to man. We're talking about military installations and airports,

(13:55):
places that they can't generally go without clear and and
yet here they are and there's no retaliation from us.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
What do you have to say, Well, I can't speak
to the lack of retaliation. I mean, I will point
out that according to the Federal Aviation Administration, a uas
an uncrid aircraft system. I'll say drone for the rest
of the show, just for the ease of speaking, is
considered an aircraft. And if you take a potshot at
a drone, it's exactly the same thing as shooting at

(14:27):
an aircraft with people on board in the eyes of
the law. So so I guess I'm not surprised that
you know people is the authorities aren't being sort of
trigger happy with you know, when they're coming to confront
these things. So there's certainly that. And then I think,
you know, it's a very fair question whether or not
you know these are drones, you know, operated by humans

(14:49):
from the ground, which are so common these days, versus
some other sort of phenomena. And in your introduction you
described you know a great many properties, glowing orbs, you know,
capable of speeds out running, you know, commercial uas used
by law enforcement, which frankly aren't terribly fast. But you know,
to my mind, many of these things could be you know,

(15:12):
something other than you know, drones as we understand them today.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
You would know when did you start flying drones?

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Patrick Well? Way back in twenty ten. I started with
a friend. A friend actually sort of got me into them.
He said, people are putting video cameras on the noses
of model airplanes, and I was just fascinated by just
by that capability. So we started building our own. And
I mean they were extremely crude by today's standards, but

(15:44):
had the same basic capabilities that these have today. They
could fly over distances, they could transmit back live video
and telemetry from their location, and as a matter of fact,
to sort of share what we were learning, we inaugurate
a group calling ourselves the Roswell Flight Test Crew because

(16:04):
these early us were often described as looking like UFOs,
and because we were particularly I was a brand new
pilot and the aircraft were not super well tuned at
that point. They crashed a lot, so it seemed to
make sense to name our efforts after the most famous
UFO crash in history.

Speaker 3 (16:22):
Because you can make a drone look pretty much like
a UFO. If you wanted to write, oh.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, if that was your goal, that would be a
fairly straightforward process. I mean, I guess you'd have to
decide what sort of UFO you wanted, something disc shaped
or you know, triangular shaped, and yeah, once you decided
that was your goal, I would imagine it would be
pretty straightforward. And another thing to be aware of is that,

(16:47):
to be sure, the sort of drones which everyone is
familiar with referred to as a quad copter, essentially a
helicopter with a propeller in each corner, you know, are
often manufactured, you know, profession you go down to Best Buy,
you take it out of the box, and you fly it.
But people can can and still do build their own aircraft,
And obviously, once you're doing that, you've got a much,

(17:10):
you know, sort of wider set of parameters you can
work with. You could make it larger or smaller if
you wanted. You could certainly rig it up with with lights,
and you know, disguise the shape of the airframe such
that a fundamentally square shaped aircraft could indeed look like
a circle or a triangle in the sky.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
Did you have an aviation background before you started well
playing around and then turning in flying drones into a career.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
Sort of when I've had a lifelong fascination both with
aviation and frankly with what today we call the UAP
the UFO phenomena, So I'm sort of comfortable in both worlds.
But yeah, when I was in college, I earned my
private pilot's certificate. But it turns out that the flying
is a is a hobby for the wealthy and I

(17:58):
am not so so I had to give that up.
But when my friend brought this potential of you know,
small civilian drones to my attention, I thought this would
be a way I could get back involved with aviation,
but without you know, having to rent an airplane for
hundreds of dollars an hour. So yes, one definitely led
into the other in my case.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
All right, and so you started getting some sort of
Was there a place to learn how to fly these
things back then? Or was it a lot of a
trial there? His trial and error?

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, we just would would build them, you know, every day,
we'd go out and fly them until they crashed so
much they couldn't fly anymore than we'd go back and
repair them, take them out the next day and do
it again. And furthermore, compared to a modern uas a
modern drone, the flight control systems were extremely primitive. If
you take one out and fly it today, you have
a GPS receiver and a wealth of other sensors which

(18:53):
you're making sure you don't run into anything and maintain
aircraft's stability. If the early ones didn't have any of that,
the pilot had to do all of it, and I
am particular, there wasn't any good at it at all.
So there's a lot of painful trial and error in
those early days.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Well, it sounds like they have evolved quite a lot
in a short amount of time, would you agree, Oh.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
Yeah, no, the I mean it's remarkable how quickly the
technology has come on, and I think it's you know,
I think to many extent the authorities and industries are
still sort of trying to catch up with what the
capabilities are. I mean, companies regularly advertise capabilities which would
be a violation of rules if you use them.

Speaker 3 (19:36):
Well, that thought more with Patrick Sherman, our guest tonight
on into the pair of normal. I'm Jeremy Scott, somewhere
between the paranormal and the a.

Speaker 8 (20:02):
This is parubnormal news. NASA is hitting the brakes on
the Mars Sample Return mission for now. The project is
a partnership with the European Space Agency to bring Martian
rock and soil samples from over one hundred and forty
million miles away back to Earth. The materials collected by
the Perseverance rover could hold clues to the red planet's history,

(20:25):
the possibility of ancient life, and, according to Associate Administrator
of the Science Mission director at Nikki Fox, the early
Solar System.

Speaker 9 (20:34):
The samples that we have taken by Perseverance actually pre date.
They are older than any of the samples rocks that
we could take here on Earth.

Speaker 8 (20:44):
NASA says the delay is necessary to address technical challenges
and the need for additional analysis and planning. The agency
has announced it won't finalize plans for the ambitious mission
until at least mid twenty twenty six. George Henry para
normal news.

Speaker 5 (21:12):
There are drums.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
The owner of this sky.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
This is over my house right now.

Speaker 5 (21:17):
What is that?

Speaker 4 (21:18):
An alarming drone incident about the size of a car.

Speaker 7 (21:22):
We were at some points right under them and there
was no noise at all.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
The minute you get eyes on them, they go dark.

Speaker 3 (21:30):
You're just pacing back and forth, going very slow.

Speaker 9 (21:35):
Right.

Speaker 3 (21:35):
Patterson Air Force Base. Airspace was closed for about four
hours after small, unidentified drones were spotted near the base.

Speaker 10 (21:42):
How were you the extreme caution for a heavy UIA
movement on the base?

Speaker 4 (21:51):
What's really the truth into the fear of normal? Separating
fact from fish.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
We want to know where these drones are, these alien
spacecraft are these surveillance is there something? Is there some
threat and they're trying to get to the bottom of it,
trying to sniff it out. I'm Jeremy Scott, somewhere between
the paranormal and the abnormal. Our guest this hour, Patrick Sherman,

(22:24):
licensed drone pilot College professor author Getting Started with Drones
and model airplanes. It was a book that came out
last year talking about his experience of over fifteen years
now in the drone industry. You were talking about how
you began to make these at home models, and now

(22:45):
I'm guessing it's evolved so much that you don't try
to make them at home, you buy them, right.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
Well, yes, that's certainly what I do. I mean, it
really depends on what the intent of the operator is.
If your goal is simply to capture beautiful imageries or
a rock quarry or something, you're much better off just
going and buying one for one thousand and fifteen hundred dollars.
You can get a remarkably capable aircraft which can do
some amazing things. So I mean, you could absolutely build

(23:13):
your own to accomplish that, but that would probably be
more expensive, certainly more time consuming, and likely more frustrating
than just going and getting one from the shop.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
So somebody gave me a drone for Christmas and I
haven't pulled it out of the box yet, but I
sent you a picture of it.

Speaker 5 (23:30):
What is that?

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yes, well, I couldn't tell you the exact make and model.
I will say it is an inexpensive toy drone I
probably quite limited in its capabilities, But if you want
to learn how to fly drone, it's also a great
place to start because, frankly, the price of making even
a catastrophic error is pretty small.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
You know.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
I always tell people you can learn to fly with
a ten thousand dollars aircraft. You can learn to fly
with a one hundred dollars aircraft. Just keep in mind
you're going to wreck your first aircraft, so choose wise.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
And I would need to have some sort of license
before I did this or what.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Well, it depends on the aircraft if it's well. If
you're going to fly any aircraft recreationally, you have to
take what's called trust the Recreational UAS Safety Test, which
is absolutely adorable, and it's offered for free by a
number of nonprofit organizations, the Academy of Model Aeronautics, the

(24:30):
Boy Scouts of America, and also my own institution, embry Riddle.
It takes about forty five minutes. You go take the test.
You know you, frankly, you can't fail. It's corrected to
one hundred percent. Once that's done, you print out a
little certificate against you, and then you're legal to fly recreationally.
If you want to operate a drone commercially, that is

(24:50):
to the benefit of yourself or somebody else, you have
to pass a much more stringent test, which you have
to take at a local testing center, typically a general
Aviation airports. The privilege will cost you about one hundred
and seventy five bucks. There are sixty questions, you get
two hours, passing scores seventy percent, and I would recommend
you study before you take that test.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
Interesting, So when I said earlier drones above two hundred
and fifty grams are required to broadcast identification and location data,
is that an accurate statement?

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yes, that is exactly correct. What you're referring to is
specifically known in industry as remote identification, or we will
often say our ID for short. It's been in force
for a couple of years now. Nobody is supposed to
sell you a drone unless it has this capability built in.

(25:48):
And if you have an older drone which you wish
to continue to fly, you're supposed to purchase an external
module for like fifty bucks, which you can velcrow to
it and it will serve the same essential functions. There
are few minor technical differences, but for our purposes they're
the same.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
So it's also true, right that under these regulations drones
are required to transmit a signal remote ID signal. Perhaps
I mean the drones that are the big ones. If
these are drones that people are reporting, drones of that

(26:25):
size would be required to transmit that signal.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Right, Oh well, legally there would be absolutely no question that, yes,
they would have to be transmitting that. And frankly, aircraft
the size of an suv, the size of a school bus.
While it's possible to construct an aircraft which in some
ways would resemble a drone of that scale, which is
being experimented on, and what's called advanced air mobility, essentially

(26:50):
electric helicopters that built like drones that would almost certainly
be fitted with what's called an ADSB transmitter Automated defended surveillance.
It's broadcast, which is what essentially all airplanes carry it.
It transmits a lot of the same information as remote
ID actually, but it's much more powerful intended to be
picked up over a much greater range. So if you

(27:12):
go flying an assessment a one seventy two or seven
thirty seven, it's going to have an ADSP transmitter on it,
And any aircraft the size of a school bus, regardless
of if it's electrically powered, gas powered, whatever, is going
to have an ADSB transmitter.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
I point think point being if these aircraft were in compliance,
it means they could then be identified. But for what
we're being told, they can't identify. They don't know where
they're taking off, they don't know where they're landing. We
can only assume that either the drones are not transmitting
this signal and thus operating illegally, or is it even

(27:52):
possible that the authorities haven't even tried to pick up
that signal, maybe they don't have the technology to do
so well.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
I would find that that would stretch the bounds of
plausibility nearly to the breaking point. If you would like,
if your listeners would like, you can go onto your
app store or your I guess what's Apple's app store
or the Android store whatever. You can download an app
called Drone Scanner into your phone for free, and it
will pick up these signals and help you interpret them. So,

(28:24):
you know, some enterprising police officer you know could download
this thing for free and begin tracking these aircraft. It
wouldn't be that complicated. And then furthermore, well, I mean,
what I find especially interesting about this in terms of
government agencies is that all drones are essentially radio controlled aircraft.

(28:44):
The person on the ground directing them, you know, is
emitting radio waves. The control in their hands is emitting
radio waves which the drone picks up and responds to
and then in return, the drone sends it back video
and telemetry signals. Now, detecting those is beyond the problems
of sort of your your average person on the street.
But you know, for a government agency that that should

(29:07):
be a pretty straightforward task. And obviously, just by analyzing
where the radio waves are coming from, the relative strength,
et cetera, you could ascertain where the operator was on
the ground, where the aircraft was, et cetera, et cetera.
And again I couldn't do this, You probably couldn't do it.
But you know, for the FAA, for the military, this

(29:29):
should not be that big a challenge to track those signals,
which again are essentially required for anything we would call
a drove.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
Got go to break. We'll be back with Patrick Sherman
on into the pair abnormal.

Speaker 5 (29:50):
Into the pair abnormal pair.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
Of I'm Jeremy's gott somewhere between the paranormal and the abnormal.
Patrick So website if you want to go find out

(30:14):
more about him, and the YouTube channel as well is
the Roswell Flight Test Crew. So the website is Roswell
Flight testcrew dot com and also the YouTube channel. We've
got links, of course available on the episode page. He
started flying drones before drones were cool, and they've come

(30:35):
a long way. And so do you think that drones
have evolved enough in which they're able to do what
some people are reporting if these are actually drones.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
Well what people are reporting, of course, there's enormous variation
of in terms of an object, you know, the size
of an suv moving silently. No, there is no aircraft
crued or uncrewed that I am aware of which could
demonstrate that type of performance. I mean, I'm aware of
some things which could maybe theoretically achieve that sort of performance,

(31:11):
But I mean, why would you be test flying them
lights on over New Jersey? You know, you go to
some remote area to test fly them, or if you
were going to fly them in a populated area, you'd
certainly announced for the general public. Hey, we're going to
be flying this weird thing around, but so so, no,
I mean, nothing about that strikes me as being you know,

(31:33):
if again taking all aspects of the report as factual,
you know, no, that does not comport with any sort
of aircraft I'm familiar with.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
Okay, So you say that you've looked at some of
the photos from the New Jersey sightings, which were some
of the first here in the States, and I mean,
you've seen enough drones over the years. What did these
look like to you?

Speaker 2 (31:59):
Well, I mean, again, these are photos I've seen online
which are purported to come from sightings in New Jersey.
I mean, I can't speak to the actual province of
any of them, but certainly a number of them I
looked at I could say pretty conclusively were conventional crude aircraft,
either light airplanes you know, cessenas, et cetera, or helicopters.

(32:20):
And I guess sort of the point I'd like to
make more broadly, for whatever it's worth, is that as
long as humans have been looking at the sky, they've
been seeing things they don't understand. And you know, who
knows what all these things may be. But I think that,
you know, we're sort of primed by our cultural contexts
to decide what we're looking at. So when you know,

(32:41):
ancient peoples looked at the sky, they saw gods or angels,
you know, and in more recent eras, you know, during
our own you know, space age, we saw spacecraft. And
so it's not surprising to me now that drones are
in the forefront of everyone's mind that when someone looks
at the sky and sees something they can't explain, they
call it a drone. You know, Is it, you know,

(33:04):
any more a drone than a spacecraft than an angel?
I mean, I don't know, but I think that, you know,
it's it's more of that psychological phenomenon of latching onto
you know, what's new to explain this unknown thing which
you're witnessing.

Speaker 3 (33:20):
So are we being fooled here? You think some people
at least, I mean, I haven't seen one of these things,
so I can't say whether or not I think it's
a drone or I believe these people are seeing what
looks like a drone. But there's enough people saying it,
and so I'm paying attention to that. The question is
everybody seeing what they think they're seeing or is their

(33:42):
mind already made up going in And I know this
is asking you to speculate a little bit, saying, well,
everybody's reporting these drones. So when I look up and
I see this thing and I can't explain it, well,
it's got to be a drone.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, I think there's I mean again, I was not standing,
but even one of these people as they had a
sightings So as you say this is strictly speculation, I
think it's worth pointing out, however, that there are a
number of phenomena which can affect the human eye and
the human mind when making an observation at night, and
most of us don't think about them because they don't

(34:18):
enter into our daily lives, but they are quite important
for pilots, and they can't explain some peculiar things we
think we see in the night sky. For example, there's
a phenomenon called autokinesis, which is if there's a single
point which isn't moving, like a star or potentially a
bright beacon out on the horizon, if you just sit
there and stare at it long enough, you will believe

(34:40):
it's starting to move.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
It's not.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
It's a static as it ever was, But this is
a thing which is happening in your visual perception. Another
thing to be aware of is what's called night central
blind spot. That is, the cones in our eyes, the
things which allow us to see very rich detailed color images,
are all centered right in the middle of our eye,

(35:02):
and the rods are scattered around the edges of our eye.
Those give us our night vision, our ability to perceive
in low light. However, they tend to be black and
white and essentially lower resolution, to put it in modern terms,
And so pilots are taught when they're looking at, you know,
an object way off in the distance to actually look
off to the side of it, because if you stare

(35:23):
directly at a dim light in the distance or presumably
in a room, it will eventually disappear. Not I mean,
the light is still there, but your eye loses the
ability to perceive it because you're hitting it with your
not very light sensitive cones. So if you look slightly
off to the side, that light will reappear. So it
certainly are phenomenon which can influence what we perceive ourselves

(35:47):
as seeing at night. And again, I think if our
social context has sort of you know, front loaded us
to see drones in the sky because all of our
neighbors have seen drones in the sky, or so they say.
When we look up and see something we don't see
or understand, we're most likely going to label it as
a drone. Again, my one person's opinion, and I wasn't there,

(36:08):
but yeah, I think there's definitely a possibility that people
who aren't accustomed to looking up into the night sky
are looking up seeing something they cannot immediately identify and
only naturally assuming well, this must be one of those
drones I've been hearing about.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
Absolutely, it was only a matter of time before drones
became just as popular as ordinary U foes. You would
have to agree that there are more of these drones
in the skies, at least theoretically today than there have
ever been.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
Oh yeah, I mean, I'm sure with each passing day
that becomes more true. Yeah, I mean, you know, initially,
certainly when I started, it was sort of a hobby
for you know, the intrepid and the fool hardy, And
then you know, it's become more and more popular to
the point where these are very practical aircraft being used
for lots of useful applications, you know, stockpile estimation, monitoring

(37:07):
crop health, conducting search and rescue missions, what's called linear inspection,
inspecting a pipeline or a utility corridor. So, yes, there
are more and more and more of them flying, that's
absolutely true. Now again this doesn't begin to explain the
you know, the the observed characteristics and size of the

(37:27):
aircraft being reported. But but yes, there are. There are
categorically more drones flying today than ever before, and tomorrow
that will also be true.

Speaker 3 (37:35):
How big can they get?

Speaker 2 (37:38):
Well, probably the biggest example of something which anybody would
reasonably call a drone would be called was what we're
being referred to as advanced air Mobility vehicles, which again
looks sort of like a drone and maybe a helicopter
had a baby. So it's got four or eight or
twelve propellers, you know, but it's got that very distinctive

(37:58):
drone shape. But it's got a cabin on it which
could hold between say one and six people, so that
would be suv size, that would be you know, maybe
potentially school bus size. But again those only fly and
you know, very carefully controlled areas. One would I cannot
see somebody taking one out for a joy ride around

(38:21):
the New Jersey skies, you know, in the middle of
the night. That makes no sense to me at all.
And again, if that was somehow happening, you know, the
FAA would insist they would have an ADSB transmitter on board.
So so theoretically it could be that, but I and
then furthermore, they would They're not tremendously loud, but you
would hear them.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
What about power source? Is there something that could keep
this thing powered for hours upon hours?

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Well, most of these aircraft, certainly virtually all small drones
and many of the aircraft were describing are powered by batteries,
and batteries are quite in their power. You can slap
an internal combustion engine to include on a medium sized drone.
You've got a meter meter and a half across. But
though I mean it sounds like an unmuffled leaf blower flying,

(39:12):
you're not gonna you know, that's not going to fool you.
The one thing which could conceivably, you know, deliver extended
performance would be a hydrogen fuel cell, which are used
again in some exotic applications where flight time is the
real premium, and there'd be a lot of trade offs,
but you could probably fly for several hours if you

(39:32):
were using the hydrogen fuel cell. But again that's exotic
technology not widely available.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
Patrick, So appreciate you coming on the program today. Tell
the audience about your books where they can follow you
all that good stuff.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah, it's for sure. Well you don't put the links
on your site, which is probably the best way. But yeah,
my most recent book is Getting Started with Drones and
Mutel Airplanes. If you want to start doing this yourself,
and I promise it's a lot of fun, go ahead
and pick that one up. I also made a book
for kids called Drones How They Fly. It's a coloring
book based on two of the first drones we ever built.

(40:06):
Sort are talking about how you could be safe around
them and what you can get up to with them.
So those are the things I think people might enjoy.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
All right, fantastic, And you've got a YouTube channel as well.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
That's right. Just just type Roswell Flight test Crew into
Google and you will find more than you would ever
want to know.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
Patrick, thanks so much. We really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
All right, So glad to have you on, Jeremy. I
appreciate you taking the time talk.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
To absolutely you might become our drone guy before too long,
because you know it's continuing to happen. They're not going away.
Don't be fooled.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
We'll be back stream us on your favorite apps from
anywhere in the world anytime, day or night.

Speaker 4 (40:43):
Into the pair of normal with Jeremy Scott.

Speaker 10 (40:48):
There's a parallel universe separation while we perceived free reality.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
Over the game, then.

Speaker 10 (41:10):
Into the pair, into the paved into the parent.

Speaker 11 (41:25):
From the cold dark death of a secret dungeon somewhere
deep in the remove to sitting in the Northwest. You're
traveling into the bar with Jeremy Scott.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
You know I've got many questions, and so do you
as well. I know I have not been the only
person to say I wonder if these drones have anything
to do with any planned acts of terrorism. And then
of course we had an act of terrorism, maybe an

(42:07):
act or two, and at least in one of these cases,
an interesting email going around make some claims as it
has to do about anti gravitics and the drones. So
very suspicious about that. But I understand that the authorities

(42:32):
and again I'm talking about the case of the person
who was shot or shot themselves. And then there was
this explosion in one of a Elon Musk's cyber truck
I believe, as it's called vehicles, happened to be outside
of a Trump hotel there in Vegas. That's the one

(42:53):
I'm talking about. Well, this individual has claimed that the
drones are a cover story and that you know, the
US is basically in possession of some of this advanced technology,
or this is advanced technology and this is how it operates. Well,

(43:18):
my problem is we don't have the capabilities to track
whatever these are, let alone deal with it. And that
is a scary thought. If these are drones of such
a high caliber and we don't have the technology in

(43:40):
which to track them, or even which to neutralize them
in some capacity, we are behind in this fight. And
that is a concern. Why is this any different than
the objects that were shot down two years years ago?

(44:01):
In that case, these objects were dealt with. They were
considered to be a threat, and so they were dealt
with accordingly, which happened to be with force, and several
of these were shot down in the US and Canada. Now,
of course we never found out what those objects were.

(44:22):
One of them, they said was a Chinese spy balloon,
to which China says, a yeah, nice try. Those objects, though,
seem to post less of a threat than something that
appears more solid and as big as some of these
objects are. And certainly you're not going to shoot these

(44:43):
objects down, but how are we not able to track them?
I think what Patrick was talking about in the first
hour of the program is, you know, you and I
may not be able to do that to do this,
but they're the government and by all means they should
be able to do it. And yet we are months

(45:06):
into this and we still don't have any answers. That
remains an unexplained and perhaps the reason that we are
handling it in such a way is because we are
in on it. And that's why there has been no
official position stated by the government, because you know, they

(45:30):
want to prolong this. They're trying to stretch it out
because they're not exactly sure how it might play out.
If it so happens to be that these objects are
sniffing out some sort of a nuclear weapons or a bomb,
maybe something like could have been used in the attack

(45:54):
they're in Las Vegas, and maybe the situation in Houston,
and who knows where else if they think that there's
more out there that might explain this. But you know,
that's not necessarily a comforting thing to tell people. And

(46:17):
so if that is the situation, or if these are
adversaries and they don't know how to handle them, you
would just you would just prolong this. And so you know,
there has been no official government position, and it'll probably
end up just exactly like the balloons did as well.
I'll say that they were balloons. Who knows what they were.

(46:37):
It certainly appeared some of these were metallic objects. I'm
talking about the one two years ago. The series of
those that were shot down looked like metallic objects. Could
have been, you know, some sort of balloons or light aircraft,
who knows. But just like that, I think it'll just

(46:59):
fizzle away. Maybe I'm wrong. We'll only time will only
tell as far as that is concerned. But why are
people reporting these? Going back to what the National UFO
Reporting Center has collected over the past couple of months,
and it really is some interesting data. I will say

(47:23):
that the fact is that these don't look like ordinary objects,
and so people feel the need in which to report this,
and some of it, yeah, probably is overblown. People believe
that just because there's a wave of sightings, it's gotta
be one of these. They reported as such, and we've

(47:45):
certainly heard it stated that these objects, when it appears
that we're getting eyes on them, or that authorities may
be approaching, they have been known to just suddenly go dark.
And so they are using the lights in which to
grab our attention, and then they shut them off when

(48:09):
they are approached or when they are being followed, and
it has been reported that they have been performing evasive maneuvers.
There's a shocking thing that has also happened, although I
guess it's not much of a surprise. It was only
a matter of time. I mean here, it was just

(48:31):
a couple of weeks ago that the authorities were talking
about the shooting down of objects using well, they said
deadly force. I don't know what other things they had
planned for deadly force against these objects that seemingly has

(48:52):
not happened. There had been some close calls from what
I understand, and a friend of the program, Ryan Graves,
who is a former Navy pilot, actually the first active
duty pilot to come forward on UAPs. We talked to
him last year, actually in person, live in McMinnville at

(49:15):
mcminnimon's UFO fest. He is a executive director of Americans
for Safe Aerospace, and he has dropped a bombshell. He
is brought forth a report from a whistleblower which actually
details not just a close call, but an actual collision.

(49:39):
Hees a collision involving an object that to some might
argue could have possibly been a drone. So whatever these
happened to be, it is a very abnormal thing to
be happening. This is a certainly not something that was

(50:03):
ever had to be dealt with five, ten, fifteen, twenty
thirty years ago in aviation. So it's changed eufhology. And
again people aren't reporting saucers anymore. They're reporting orbs, balls
of light, drones, all sorts of things. More to come

(50:25):
somewhere between the paranormal and the abnormal. Hoping we can
get James Goodall on the program, we'll see how about that.

Speaker 5 (50:43):
Into the pair of normal, pair of normal.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
I'm Jeremy, it's got somewhere between the paranormal and the abnormal.
I want to finish what I was saying about what
Ryan Graves are reported from the whistleblower and then we'll
get right to James Goodall for sure. But Graves was
saying that a whistleblower came to Americans First Safe Aerospace
regarding a mid air collision between a Golfstream jets and

(51:28):
an unidentified metallic object that occurred off the coast of
Florida on December eleventh at approximately twenty seven thousand feet
and resulted in engine failure and an emergency landing. There
are indications that the unidentified object may have been a
drone operating off the east coast with atypical characteristics. The

(51:52):
whistleblower is concerned because this altitude is highly regulated Class
A airspace that requires flight plans and transponders. But in
this instance, there is no flight plans for the object
and it was not transponding. We can largely eliminate the
possibility of common objects because a weather balloon would have

(52:14):
been transponding. This altitude is too high for hobby drones
and illegal for any drone. There is no biological indicator
of a bird strike, and video of the engine shows
metal damage. He says, I am concerned of incident. The
incident is being downplayed by the FAA. The report is
being classified as an incident and not an accident, which

(52:37):
would require public announcement, investigation by NTSB, and an explanation.
He says, what is going on here? Major air safety
events should be handled transparently. We welcome back to the program.
World renowned expert on the SR seventy one Blackbird spyplane,
the F one seventeen stealth fighter Lockheed Skullunk Works, Area

(53:01):
fifty one, retired from the US Air Force, James Goodall
good to have you on the program. How are you.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
Oh, I'm doing great. It's been a crazy day, I
was all coming on the program tonight. I've I have
a lot of friends that live in LA I have
some friends that live in Hollywood Hills, and apparently all
of Pacific Palisades is gone. And that's that was a

(53:32):
billionaire on clay right on the right outside of Santa Monica, right.
But it's something terrible, and so I was I was,
I apologize for that.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
No, no, no, that's perfectly fine. In fact, I wanted
to make sure we talked about the crash anyway, because
here's a case of an incursion, as I'll call them.
Do you agree with that terminology? Incursion? Are these incursions
that we're experiencing now in the skies. And by the way,
praise prayer for la I didn't mean to gloss that over,

(54:02):
but I just.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
I mean, there's fortunately, there has only there have been
very few fatalities, but there are. You know, they're probably
a trillion dollars worth of real estate just went up
in smoke. And when you when you have a whole
neighborhood of ten to thirty million dollar homes and the
whole neighborhood goes up in flames, that's significant. But that's

(54:31):
beside the point. So let's yeah, yeah, I am I.
For those who don't know I am, I'm a published author.
I have actually twenty eight books in print. My twenty
ninth book has been waiting on the Navy to let
me get on an SSGN, one of the Ohio boats
that were modified to be an arsenal boat, and that's

(54:54):
the Michigan was coming back from Guam and I got.
I talked to public affairs yesterday at Europe in Washington
State and they said, oh, no, it's been it's been
reassigned somewhere. So there's there's another hot spot that's going
to But the you know, I saw my first Blackbird
and the one of the reasons why it's such an
obsession with me. I joined the Air Force because I

(55:16):
loved airplanes and I really wanted to be close to them.
As it turns out, I got into communications, which didn't
really allow me to didn't get me into airplanes, so
to speak. But I was stationed at Lower Air Force
Base in Denver, and I got a set of orders
to go to Edwards Air Force Base in California to

(55:38):
support three aircraft going through Category one testing with ground
based telemetry. I was a Lockheed YC one one Starlifter,
the North American Aviation XB seventy Valkyrie, which was a
six engine Mock three bomber, and a classified program which

(55:59):
turned out to be the Blackbird. And on March tenth,
nineteen sixty four, at three point fifteen in the afternoon,
I saw what changed my entire life. I saw I
was I had work some overtime there to Edwards, and
you don't get paid overtime if you're in the military,

(56:20):
but you get what they call comp time for overtime.
So I had like three days off I can do.
So I decided I was going to go too, going
to Beach. My grandmother lived there, so I was going
to I took the Hawthorne shuttle. It was it was
a North Through Aircraft company had a shuttle flight I
think every hour from Edward's Air Force Base to Hawthorn

(56:44):
and then they brings you know, people back and forth.
They ran all day long, and it was an Italian going.
It was a piaggio. And when I'm waiting there to
get in the airport, I hear this roar and I
got see what it is because whatever it is is
blowing debris all across Rogers Dry Lake. So it running

(57:06):
down the taxiway and I looked towards the new tower,
which is now the old tower. Of course, I was
sixty years ago, and I thought at first was it
was the X fifteen rocket powered aircraft. And that wasn't
the case because the people were too small compared to
the airplane. And about then they said, hey, we're loading.

(57:28):
So I went running back, jumped in the airplane. And
every seat is a window seat or an aisle seat,
and however you want to look at it. And we
took off directly over the lake bed and we banked
over and we looked down. I looked down. I'm looking
at the top of this blackbird and they had just
shut off the engines and they were in the process

(57:48):
of towing. They see one thirty in front of it,
and I knew how big I see one thirty was
And do you look down on it and see it?
I mean it was. It was incredible. So I maybe
I spent the week in Newport Beach and then Gunda
Beach whatever. When I got back to Edwards that following Sunday,

(58:12):
and Edwards was in the middle of nowhere today, but
it was even more in the middle of uh nowhere
sixty years ago. So I get to the section Monday morning,
hander my handed my work orders it's for the Lockheed Hangar,
and I go into I go into the hangar and
I as I walk into it, I'm looking at the

(58:35):
rear end of two blackbirds and I knew right then
and there that I just found a new obsession for me.
I'm going to be I'm going to be obsessed with
this thing for the rest of my life. As it
turns out, that was a correct assessment of my obsession.
Uh So, I just started digging as much stuff as

(58:57):
I could up on the blackbird, and yeah, back then
it was you didn't talk about it because it was classified.
But when I got out of the when I got
out of the Air Force in sixty six, I wrote
letters to the Air Force, to Lockheed, to CIA, to
Secretary of Defense. I was asking for non classified photos

(59:20):
in the air of SR seventy ones. I didn't even
know about the A twelve, and their official policy was
not to cooperate. This is all the agency, everybody I contacted.
So I started digging, and the more I dug, the
more I found out, The more I found out, the
deeper I dug, And over the course of the last

(59:44):
sixty two years, sixty three years now sixty sixty one years,
excuse me, I'm probably the most knowledgeable person on the
that's still alive on the history, development operation of the
Lucky Skunkworks Blackbirds, from the A twelve to the y

(01:00:05):
F twelve interceptor, to the SR seventy one A, B
and C to Big Tail, and to the little Bird
that Kelly Johnson referred to as he couldn't talk about
it because they're still classified. This was in eighty three.

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
I hold that thought, James, we do have to take
our bottom of the eartbreak We'll be back with James
Goodall after the news. I'm Jeremy Scott, somewhere between the paranormal.

Speaker 5 (01:00:29):
And the abnormal.

Speaker 8 (01:00:48):
This is parabnormal News. We may finally have an answer
to one of astronomy's great mysteries. Fast radio bursts. First
discovered in two thousand and seven, these millisecond long, powerful
radio signals have traveled billions of light years to reach Earth.
New research from MIT has identified the source of an

(01:01:10):
FRB that was detected in twoenty twenty two. It originated
from a neutron star located two hundred million light years
away that is surrounded by a dense magnetic field, which
scientists believe is the source of the signals. Astronomers have
detected thousands of fast radio bursts over the past eighteen years,

(01:01:30):
from within our own galaxy to as far as a
billion light years away. I'm George Henry Paranormal News.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
We had an aircraft in front of you that thirty seven.
I reported something passed over him and we didn't have
any targets. So let me know if you see anything
pass over you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Yeah, on, bro, there's a whole fleet. I have a
look on the assay. My god, oh, go ahead.

Speaker 5 (01:02:10):
I can't the wind that wins.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
One hundred and plant outs in the west.

Speaker 5 (01:02:15):
Im. But if there's a thing, it's rotating.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
There's multiple drones all over this here for here fort
to night now power use extreme cont for a heavy
uia uh movement on the beach.

Speaker 11 (01:02:28):
Oh, we just had a peerman are.

Speaker 4 (01:02:33):
Hold on tight. You're about to land somewhere into the
air ab normalm.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
And hopefully it is not a crash landing or a
mid air collision. Was it a drone? Was it one
of those drones that have been stocking the East coast
and other cities that collected with that aircraft last month.
I'm Jeremy Scott. This is into the pair of normal,

(01:03:01):
and we're talking with the retired US Air Force member
James Goodall, also expert on all things Lockheed skunk Works. James,
you were telling us about some of the craft that
they have worked on and that you've become familiar with.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
Well, I mean, I'm an expert, and that's per Lockey.
That's for Ben Rich telling me. He said, I don't
believe there's anybody at Lockheed. I know there's nobody else
out there that has the understanding and the background of
what we do here at the skunk Works than you.
And one of the reasons we got a blackbird in

(01:03:43):
Minneapolis is I spoke with Ben Rich about once a
quarter for over twenty years. For whatever reason, he loved
my passion for the for the Skunkworks, especially the Blackbirds.
But just thing about Lockeed I was just I mean
when I was eleven years old, and maybe I closer

(01:04:05):
to ten years old, that's a long time ago. I
got locked in the cockpit of the prototype x F
one O four. It was at Ames the big wind Tunnels,
and it was still classified secret. And my best friend
at the time, his dad was commander at Moffortfield Naval

(01:04:26):
Air Station and Danny called me up one Saturday morning
and he said, I said, are you free And I
said yeah, Why, I said, can you come out to
jump in your bike and come up to Moffett Field.
I said, sure, I don't need an excuse to go
to moffatt It's one of the places I like going to.

(01:04:49):
The lot of It was four hundred airplanes here at
the time, and Danny and I were we were there's
so much around the base that we became in you
hiding in playing sight, so to speak. And we were
always referred to as Captain Smith's son and that friend

(01:05:09):
of his, and that friend of his was me. But
we went into the big hangar one and at the
far end, closer to the base, there was the bay,
not the base, closer to the San Francisco Bay, there
was an area that was cordoned off and just had
black curtains and to keep out sign And you're not

(01:05:29):
going to tell a couple of ten year old kids
they can't go do something, especially if it's supposed to
be really interesting. Then Danny knew it was there. I didn't,
so we h. He pushes the curtain back. We parked
our bikes. He walked over. He purses the curtain back
and there is a shiny, brand new, never been in
the air prototype x F one zero four Starfighter. That

(01:05:54):
was the one with the seven foot wings, and it
was advertising and promoted back in the day is missile
with a man in it because it would go mock
too and it and it looked pretty much like a dagger.
And that was really that was really the beginning of
my obsession with Luckey Skunkworks airplanes. But I never in
my life ever thought one I would see a you know,

(01:06:17):
actually see a blackbird fly.

Speaker 5 (01:06:20):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
I've been in the cockpit of all eight of the
different manned blackbirds. An A twelve and A twelve B,
which is the one that's in the USS Intrepid in
New York City, A T E, A T A twelve
which was the trainer. You had a y F twelve interceptor,

(01:06:43):
and that's what I saw at Edwards. You have an
s R seventy one, A B and C and bigtail.
I've been to the cockpit of all eight types. And
Ben Ritt says there's only probably three people on the
planet that can say that, and I want and I
would be the fourth. So that diggles the heck outomy

(01:07:07):
and I just one thing led to another. I've had
a fascination of things that go bump in the night.
I've always believed in UFOs, and you know, in my
research and doing stuff on the blackbird, I had an
opportunity to interview an SR seventy one pilot friend of
mine because he crashed. He had a bailout of the

(01:07:31):
of nine to five seven, which was one of the trainers.
They had a total electrical failure over Montana and they
couldn't land at Malstrom or any or even frances He
Warren because of weather. It's snowing to beat hell. So
it was heading back to Beale and they had no
electrical It was the only time in the history of

(01:07:52):
the BlackBridge of you know, fifty eight thousand flight hours
for all types of Blackbirds, and it was the only
time they had a total electric fail You're off of
both engines, and so Davis Davis flying the airplane, the
instructor pilots, going through all the emergency procedures. They had
no radio. Uh, they did indicate that there was a

(01:08:14):
way to indicate to Biel that they were in trouble
and they were coming back and they had no communications.
I don't know how they managed to do that, but
they did. And as as they're coming in, uh, you know,
Dave said, the instructor pilot was, he was going through
the emergency procedures. He said, the too says that if

(01:08:38):
you have total electrical failure, the engines will still suck
the gas out of the field, out of the sump,
which they did from Montana to about five miles north
of bl Air Force Base. But when they dropped the
landing gear. The nose went up about it about a
twelve degree angle of a ten, and the stump emptied out.

(01:09:03):
All of a sudden, you have a dual flame ount
because of no no fuel, and you both punch out.
And that was They bury the airframe on the base,
but it was crashed about five miles north of the
of the base perimeter. So I'm I'm visiting my dad
in Tullahoma, Tennessee, and I know that Dave Thruhoff, who

(01:09:27):
was who was a Blackbird pilot, lived in Lynchburg, Tennessee,
the home of Jack Daniels. So I called him up.
I said, Hey, Dave, I'm I'm just down the road
from you. You up for a chat? Said, chair, come
on down. So I went down to his place and
we just I want to interview him about what happened

(01:09:50):
when he had a bailout of a Blackbird. And then
as we're going along, I said, do you believe in UFOs?
He said, absolutely, positively, do exist. I said you want
to expand expand upon that? And I thought he was
going to say no, when he says, sure.

Speaker 5 (01:10:05):
All right.

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):
More on that conversation when we continue with the James
Gouda our guest, US Air Force veteran locking skope Works
and Area fifty one expert. Our guest on into the
pair of normal, somewhere between the paranormal and the abnormal.
I'm Jeremy Scott.

Speaker 5 (01:10:36):
Into the pair of normal, pair.

Speaker 3 (01:10:38):
Of somewhere between the paranormal and the abnormal. I'm Jeremy
Scott into the pair of normal. All right, I got

(01:11:00):
to cut to the chase here just due to time.
Your conversation with Dave talking pilot, Dave talking UFOs and
something about bailing out of one of these fighter planes.

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
Right, yeah, he Dave threw, if had eject out of
an SR seventy one trainer, it's it's mock three point
two capable, but it doesn't have any it's not a
mission capable airplane. It doesn't have a it doesn't have
camera base and whatever. But so I asked Dave, I said,

(01:11:36):
if you believe in UFOs, and he said, absolutely, positively
do exist. You want to expand upon that? And he
said sure, And that just blew me away, So I said, well,
go ahead. He said it was late, very very late
seventy two, early seventy three. He's flying out a Cadina Okinawall.
It's the ninth Strategic Reconnaissance Wing Detachment one or DEBT one,

(01:12:00):
and he find a night mission and they had finished
the mission. They're heading back to Kadina. They're at seventy
eight thousand feet. They're at mock two point seven, which
is a sort of a sweet spot. You're still going
really fast, but you don't have the thermal stress on

(01:12:21):
the airframe and the and the systems at mock two
point seven. You go to mock three point two, the
friction really heats up the airframe. So he's you know,
they're cruising, just they're cruise control. The trottles are all
the way back to minimum burner. The airplane likes to

(01:12:42):
fly fast. Three quarter moon off the left hand side
of the airplane, and Dave's notice he gets a glint
off something reflective. It wasn't round, it wasn't it wasn't
you know, it wasn't a ball, it wasn't a saucer,
but it was something that had edges and reflective, and

(01:13:05):
so he thought it maybe it was another blackbird. So
he gets on secure voice and he asked Gadena. He said,
we have another bird up and he said, no, you
were in the briefing, you're the owner went up there
and he said, well, no, I'm not. I got company,
and so I'm going to go take a look. So
he advanced the throttles about a ten degree bank to
the right and he starts climbing, and when he was

(01:13:29):
about but a thousand or two thousand feet below that
whatever this object was, and still about a mile away,
he still couldn't get out the shape the shape, and
there's a billion stars up there. So he's trying to
see if he can see where the stars are blocked out,

(01:13:50):
but the instrument lights in the cockpit are causing a
little little bright points on his visor, on his David
Clark light suit, which is you know, certified to one
hundred and twenty thousand feet. He didn't want to open
up his visor because Murphy's loss says, you do something

(01:14:12):
like that, you're going to hit something in the windscreen
and all you're gonna have decompression and you're dead. So
he didn't do that. But all of a sudden, this
thing took off and left him in the dusk. He
said it was about a thirty degree angle of attack,
and he he lost it going you know, you figured
between one hundred and eighty and two hundred thousand feet.

(01:14:35):
Fast forward to nineteen seventy nineteen seventy five, I think
it was he retires from the Air Force. He's a
lieutenant colonel, but he has a Q clearance, and he was,
you know, he wanted to be able to use his clearance,
so you know, he put his name in for some
you know, for some positions, and he got the job

(01:14:56):
his facility manager at Area fifty one. I mean, would
that be a hell of a job or what. And
he was also responsible for all the maintenance of all
the non program aircraft, the Chase birds. And he also
flew a lot of chase a photo chase on half
blue photo chase on f one seventeen.

Speaker 3 (01:15:15):
And okay, so did he see something there at Area
fifty one?

Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
Well, I asked him that. He said, I was responsible
for every single structure at Area fifty one, from a
paint locker to the big hangar eighteen. And he said,
there are no underground facilities at Area fifty one, says,

(01:15:40):
but we have on the other side of the Pappoost Range.
We have the ability to drill a thirty six foot
diameter hole through solid granite at about a foot an hour.
And that's that's how they made Yucker Mountain, and that's
that's how they also made the deep holes for detonating

(01:16:02):
underground nuclear tests before that was canceled. So the you know,
so he said that technology is here and I said, well,
said said, but he said that the UFOs are real.
I said, have you ever heard of S four? He said,
I recall seeing stuff with a destination of S four

(01:16:23):
and the address, you know, in at area fifty one.
They were being offloaded off of C five or C
one thirty and then they were being trucks somewhere else.
But the uh we had the technology to build an
underground facility there and they and according to Bob Luzar,

(01:16:44):
who I've known since before, he went to work out
in the desert.

Speaker 3 (01:16:50):
And uh hey, something missing from there?

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
Is there?

Speaker 3 (01:16:53):
Maybe something gone from this facility or another facility. Does
that have something to do with why the drones are
they trying to sniff something out?

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
Oh and a totally different subject is the drones that
are flying all over the East coast. What I believe
happened and I know it's they have that capability right
around I think just before Christmas, a very large quantity

(01:17:22):
of medical grade radioactive isotopes went missing. They were either lost, stolen,
or misplaced, I mean, and they could someone can make
a huge dirty bomb out of it. You know, there
wasn't enough in there to make There wasn't any fissional material,
but they have a lot of highly radioactive stuff. So

(01:17:45):
we've had since nineteen seventy five, we've had the ability
on airborne platforms and ground based platforms to look over
a long distance at a ship or a vehicle if
you're doing it on the ground or even from the air,
to determine if there's any fissional material on that ship

(01:18:07):
or on that vehicle or whatever. And the Russians had
had that capability before we did, but by nineteen seventy
five we had systems installed in EP three areas two,
and that was the P three oryan with the radiome
on the underneath the bottom and the canoe on top.

(01:18:28):
And there's a canoe on the bottom of the spyplane
like the one that was forced down in China here
back ten years ago or maybe even longer than that. Sure,
but we've had that capability and it's gone into the
commercial and in the private industry as far as being
able to sense radioactive material And a good example is

(01:18:54):
this goes back what twenty five thirty years ago. A
buddy of mine who uh lived in southern New Jersey.
He had problems with his prostate. So his doctors up
in New York City they put in some they call
it gammut gammat tides. They're radioactive seeds put in uh

(01:19:16):
a man's uh uh proustate area to stop the cancer,
to kill the cancer. And he's driving down that the
Jersey Turnpike. All of a sudden, he is surrounded by
swat and everybody has their guns out. I mean there
had to be, he said there was. He couldn't count

(01:19:38):
the number of vehicles that were involved. There was just
too many. And he's pretty shook up. And you know,
if they had their they had their weapons drawn.

Speaker 5 (01:19:48):
And uh.

Speaker 1 (01:19:50):
It turns out that uh A sensor on the on
the New Jersey Turnpike are multiple centers on the New
New Jersey Turnpike identified that they're radioactive materials being transported
down the turnpike.

Speaker 3 (01:20:05):
Okay, can they have anything to do with the coming inauguration?

Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
Well, yeah, I have to believe so I have to
believe so that if you can create a dirty bomb
during during the inauguration, you could kill a lot of
people and possibly even you know, half of elected officials
in Congress.

Speaker 3 (01:20:28):
James, are some of these drones perhaps our own aircraft?

Speaker 1 (01:20:34):
Well, they're all our own aircraft, They're all our own
I have a buddy of mine that has been in
the black community forever, black ops. Yeah, and he doesn't
work on him, but he supports them.

Speaker 5 (01:20:54):
What does he says?

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
He said, of the UFOs that are seen by the
general public, are seeing manned American built craft.

Speaker 5 (01:21:08):
Amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:21:10):
That's all the time we have, James. It was all
too short, but we hope to do it again soon.
And check out all of his books up on Amazon
and wherever books are sold.

Speaker 1 (01:21:18):
As they say, James, Yes, yeah, And if you like
the Blackbird, the B two, the skunk Works Summarines their stealth, yeah,
you can go to Amazon.

Speaker 3 (01:21:28):
There you got all right? Everyone, good night, God bless