Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Five four three two one.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
We interrupt our program to bring you this important message.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
A confirmed attack is taking place against the United States.
That's aliens from an unknown location have been reported in
multiple states. We are controlling transmissions.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
There is another world that awaits far beyond what we
can see and feel, a place that's anything but ordinary.
Speaker 5 (00:32):
Would you believe? I do not think? Step into the
song how the first time? No aliens take conspiracies and
color to.
Speaker 6 (00:51):
The pair Red not a weegogo with charity stuff.
Speaker 7 (01:10):
Hello from the Oregon Ghost Conference. Friends Seaside, Oregon is
where we greet you for year thirteen. This is the
twenty twenty five Oregon Ghost Conference, and I'm Jeremy Scott.
You are listening or watching to into the Pair of
normal live radio show broadcast all across the country, and
we are so honored to come here year after year.
(01:30):
This would be our fifth or sixth year doing the
show live on site here. It's always so fun to
meet the listeners and to interact with the speakers and
the presenters.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
There's a lot to do here.
Speaker 7 (01:43):
We've got, of course, investigations that are happening, and tours
so much for the kids, and even the kids at heart.
It's a spring break, so very active here in Seaside.
A lot of families and people of all shapes and
sizes that are joining us here in Seaside. I've seen
some very interesting costumes. We're gonna kick off the festivities
(02:06):
that with to repeat guests here at the Oregon Ghost
Conference with Kevin Brown and Lenful Logan. How are you guys,
and welcome back to the Oregon Ghost Conference.
Speaker 8 (02:17):
Thank you for having us. It's been great and we're
having a good time.
Speaker 9 (02:21):
Yeah, this is our third time with as vendors, my
fourth time being here. So yeah, it's getting a lot
more busy and busy and busy, so it's great.
Speaker 7 (02:30):
So what did you guys come to the Oregon Ghost
Conference this time to talk about?
Speaker 9 (02:35):
I came to talk more about the local paranormal investigating
that I'm doing and working. I've worked in conjunction with Logan.
He's on the he'll let you know, but he's on
the UAP side, and we kind of combined. We've worked
together for a couple of years in the UAP Task
Force and we've always talked about getting together.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
He's in Virginia.
Speaker 9 (02:56):
I'm here in actually up in Long Beach and Washington.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yeah, Washington and Logan and I have been.
Speaker 9 (03:05):
Talking about this for a long time, and so he
comes out here from Virginia. Man hooks up and we
talked about his app and where we're at working together
with I do the paranormal because he's scared to death
of it?
Speaker 10 (03:20):
Is that true level?
Speaker 3 (03:23):
I will admit to nothing.
Speaker 7 (03:26):
So what makes the the skin stand up on the
back of your neck when comes to the Paris?
Speaker 8 (03:31):
I think it's a cultural thing We've been told since
we were kids. You know, if the WU happens, you
embrace it, but don't go chasing after it because it
might not be for you, could be for somebody else.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
And in my case, I typically there you go.
Speaker 8 (03:49):
But I typically tend to be around a lot of
people that want to go racing into it.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
So I'm like, Okay, if you.
Speaker 8 (03:54):
See me around something scary, it's because I have a plan.
I will not be the slowest run.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
So what kinds of investigations Kevin? Locally have you done?
Speaker 7 (04:06):
Washington Long Beach is for those who are watching that way,
I believe it would be towards the north.
Speaker 9 (04:11):
For me, it's north probably let's say about forty five
minutes from here from Seaside. It's on the Long Beach Peninsula,
and I do. I started at Stanley Hotel in Colorado,
but that's when I was just getting out of the military.
But when I retired, I came back out here and
(04:32):
started investigating. I've done numerous local investigations in Long Beach, Cview, Vancouver, Colfax, Washington, Roseberg, Oregon,
probably about one hundred hundred and fifty investigations around this area.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
You ever brought this guy along with you? He won't go,
he won't go. No, I don't do that stuff.
Speaker 7 (04:56):
Do you have a story of something that happened to
you on What are these investigations that sticks in your mind?
Speaker 3 (05:04):
I guess well.
Speaker 9 (05:06):
I've talked about the Stanley Hotel that nauseum. So I'll
move on to Roseberg and Southern Oregon, Southern.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Oregon, Middle Ish.
Speaker 9 (05:16):
We went down there and we they have a festival
down there for a ghost signing. They have VIPs, limousines
and stuff, and a group of us, they're PMW Investigation
and I were actually doing the investigations and they had
people come out. We were in cemetery and we are
(05:39):
also We went downtown to a downtown Colfax, and there
was Elks, an old oaks of eighteen hundreds, lots of
history and stuff. And the only reason I tell this
story is because it's the first time I've ever felt
that I was a sensitive. I never got into that stuff.
I don't, I don't think of it. It happened we
(06:02):
were outside walking around the Elks. The the guests or
the hosts there were showing us around the uh, the Elks,
and I'm walking around and I'm getting all for clemmed.
I am like I my eyes started watering up. I
was I was crying. I had no idea. Why is
(06:23):
out of nowhere? Just completely not my thing. I don't
do that. And We're walking around the building and I'm
like choked up, and I asked the host I said,
was there a tragedy here? And she just smiled and said, yes,
there was a fire here that trapped several of Back then,
it was my minorities that were in. They had to
(06:47):
It was bad back then and it's still bad. But
they made them go underground, the minorities and that, and
some of them got trapped in under the Elks building
and they were killed. And on top of that, I mean,
I was. I was done. They on top of that,
they said, there's demons down there that are trapping me,
(07:11):
trapping them in and they can't they can't get out.
So I'm like, when we first went in there, I
went right downstairs, right to the area and told my
story how bad I felt, and to where they were
supposedly where they supposedly died in the fire, and I
just I just voiced my opinion. I told the demons,
(07:32):
let them the hell out. And that was my first
time I ever really felt it.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
And you said you were done, so that you did
want to go back to this. Oh no, I would
go back to the heartbeat when I say back for
another time.
Speaker 9 (07:51):
Yeah, I was just done because it just really brought
me down. And after but after I talked, I felt
I felt better.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
It's just one of those logan what do you make
of all this? It's not strange to me.
Speaker 8 (08:06):
I've heard similar stories from multiple people. I just don't
want to experience it myself. I'm not there yet.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I am more do you want to have a UFO sighting.
Speaker 8 (08:15):
I've had UFO sighting, so I'm more of a nuts
and both type person. I gotta touch it, feel it,
figure out what it is if it's something. I mean,
some UFOs seem to be of a spiritual nature.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
They go through walls and stuff like that.
Speaker 8 (08:29):
But most of the stuff I like to be able
to use tools to measure what happens. What's the energy rate,
what's the translucency, what's the transparency, all those type of things.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I don't deal with all these things.
Speaker 8 (08:40):
I could reach out and touch me in the middle
of the night, because then we're gonna have problems.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
But someone's going down and it ain't going You're a
big at, that's for sure. I wouldn't want to mess
with you.
Speaker 7 (08:49):
But you think there's some similarities between the two tools
or whatnot, or ideologies that we can use to investigate
all of this.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 8 (08:57):
So I created the uh the phenom app, which is
one of the reasons why we're we're here, is we.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
It's easy for us to say, okay.
Speaker 8 (09:08):
UFO passes by, we whip out a n app, take
a picture.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Well things you know, when you're doing it, live, things
sit ten happen.
Speaker 7 (09:18):
I didn't mean to cut you off quite so abruptly, level,
but we are here at the Oregon Ghost Conference and
we do have to take a break. A lot folks
are sitting with us though they can download this app
because it's.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Free, Yes all right, Apple and Android, and we'll find
more about that. Just that was the spirits pushing them,
pushing the south. It was you wash it right here.
I saw what was going on. That's why you're sitting
over there.
Speaker 11 (09:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 12 (09:45):
Into the pair of dorm, pair of door.
Speaker 7 (10:03):
We're joined by a Lenvil Logan and also by Kevin
Brown here at the Oregon Ghost Conference, Siam Jeremy Scott.
We were talking about the Phenom app, which is something
that folks can download for free. You were saying, and
the goal is that.
Speaker 8 (10:19):
We are here to collect uIP cryptid and paranormal data
so that we can have enough scientific information to transfer
these subjects from fringe science into academia. The idea is
that we know these things that have been going on.
They've been going on for years. Hence we wouldn't have
(10:39):
a wonderful venue like this. But the question is why
is it still fringe? Because certain people are not ready.
This is not their truth. So we've got to collect
the data in a scientific manner so that we can
take it and put it in front of their faces
so that they realize that it's actually here.
Speaker 7 (10:56):
Okay, so how do people put their science into the app?
What are you asking that they include in their reports.
Speaker 8 (11:01):
Well, the beauty of it is that I've just assumed
everybody's lazy. So the app does most of the work
for you when you use it. What it does is
it takes a snapshot fifteen seconds of video and it
keeps repeating that cycle until you tell it to stop.
What it does then, is this collecting your GPS, the
angle that you were shooting at, the bearing, the range,
all those things. Is collecting acoustics data, is collecting magnetic data.
(11:25):
We're hoping to in the future here be able to
collect any type of ionizing radiation so that all that
data can come back and again we can figure out
what's really going on.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Now.
Speaker 8 (11:37):
Primarily it's designed for UAP encryptids, but we want to
do the paranormal stuff. And that means most people when
they're doing when they're talking about cryptids and UAP, it's
usually something that happens real quick. You whip up the app,
you take a picture or an image or video or whatever.
But for paranormal usually someone going to on a ghost hunt.
(11:59):
You can't just sit around and walk around for two
hours and then hope that something happens and then put
it into the app. So we're looking for ideas and
new innovative approaches on how we can help the paranormal
community collect their data so it can be properly reported.
Speaker 9 (12:15):
And the problem is that Logan is gonna take this
and be running out the room. So you're going to
see it going that way instead of going towards the paranormal.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Logan will take it and go the other way. Yeah.
Speaker 8 (12:27):
So again, if it's paranormal, I'm gonna let my white
friends handle that.
Speaker 7 (12:34):
Oh so you do put on certain things off and
other people in the pors definitely.
Speaker 8 (12:38):
You know, you take the opportunity when the opportunity arises,
and if he wants to go forward, I'm gonna be like, hey, Kevin,
here's a twenty keep going.
Speaker 7 (12:47):
The idea is that by feeding this data in through
the app that you might be able to find some
similarities and maybe make some connections between these various paranormal
phenomenas that correct.
Speaker 9 (12:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Example of that is was it last year.
Speaker 9 (13:02):
Last year we were doing a remote viewing and Sarah,
our friend that we worked with in the UAP. She
is a medium, and we did a remote viewing here
and my sisters have a place in Tombstone, Texas. Long
story short, she's here there there with on zoom and
(13:24):
showing and my sister has an SLS camera. I don't
know an SLS cameras which shows scale. Are stick figures
of people, and if you're aiming in an open space
and there's a stick figure, then you have to wonder
what that is. So long story short again, is that
Sarah is saying, hey, behind that corner over there is
(13:47):
an alien and and it's probably it's about eight feet tall.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
He's just there, he's just hanging out.
Speaker 9 (13:55):
He saw that something was happening over here, and he
came over and she goes, Donna take care, sell us
camera around that corner, took it, took a picture and
there was eight foot eight foot stick figure and I
have that on my Pheno mos the Facebook page that
that session. So yeah, it was there. She called it
(14:16):
before and then my sister ran around the corner and
there it was.
Speaker 7 (14:19):
So you guys did a presentation here in a class
UAPs and paranormal crossover. You do believe there is some
crossover here we've been talking about.
Speaker 8 (14:29):
Yeah, there's been multiple occasions where people have seen u
AP in the sky and in that same location, maybe
a different day or something to that effect. They've had
a paranormal experience. So the idea is, can we repeat that,
Can we stimulate it? Can we do it deliberately to
make it happen? We don't know, but the idea is
(14:52):
we have to collect the data. There's there's too many
loose ends there, so we have to collect the data
and massage it and then let everybody know what we found.
Speaker 7 (15:01):
So, as far as the gadgetary is concerned, what would
you use to investigate a UFO siding? What might you
use to investigate a apparition?
Speaker 8 (15:12):
So for UAP siding, you may want to use like
a spectrum analyzer to see if it's giving off any
type of radiation or any type of electromagnetic signal. You
may want to use a camera system, check if there's
any magnetics, check you if there's any acoustics both above
and below the human hearing, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
And the same things.
Speaker 8 (15:32):
Most of those same tools apply for when you're doing
paranormal investigations as well. They have an EMF system to
let you know if there's any electromagnetic frequencies being produced
out of a certain area. You want to have a camera.
You may want to have an electro optical camera versus
a thermal camera or both.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
If you can, we'll use it.
Speaker 9 (15:51):
We'll use a flair, We'll use a flair, we'll use SLS,
we'll use a regular camera.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
And let's see, it was last year we were.
Speaker 9 (16:02):
We were doing how or a community center that used
to be an old hospital in Ilwaco, Washington, and the
other other group was on one side of the room.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
I was on the other.
Speaker 9 (16:12):
My wife is filming the SLS that I'm showing. I
asked a spirit to set off the rimpod. Rimpod is electromagnetic.
You got to touch it or a spirit's got a
touch it or be close to it and it'll go off.
I asked it to do that there on the other
side filming, and they put that video on Facebook and
I'm like, what was that? And there was a little
(16:34):
white flash going across They took it down and stopped it.
And we found a object going across the floor or
going across the room like this big just as I'm
asking it to come over and turn to set off
the rimpod.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Rimpod went off and I had the.
Speaker 9 (16:52):
SLS of a being or a stick figure.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
I won't say it's a spirit.
Speaker 9 (16:59):
It was there touching the rimpot and I.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
I have pictures of that.
Speaker 9 (17:04):
We have like five different objects that that we used
to show that that happened.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Stick figures is something missing? Yeah?
Speaker 9 (17:15):
See SLS is made out of a Nintendo what is it,
Nintendo something or other? Right, so it was developed for gaming,
but they found that if you if you aim the
camera at somebody, at anybody, you'll get a stick figure.
And again if you aim it at something else and
you're getting a stick figure, then you have.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
To you have to wonder what that is?
Speaker 12 (17:38):
Right?
Speaker 7 (17:40):
Was that the entity that was recorded on multiple devices?
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Yeah, this one was recorded And again where was that recorded?
Speaker 9 (17:49):
This was an ill waka Washington on the in the
community center right connected. It's an old hospital. And actually
we found out two weeks later that that was the morgue.
Speaker 7 (17:58):
So do you ever worry about bringing something home? And
do you, ever it's happened, take measures to protect yourself?
Speaker 12 (18:05):
I do.
Speaker 9 (18:06):
And if if anyone wants to go over to to
our booth over in booth twenty. You'll see that I
have holy water, I have crystals, I have a prayer
and that's for after to make sure because I have
had a couple of h i'll call hitchhikers.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Yeah, I've had a coping of them. Yeah.
Speaker 8 (18:28):
I just want to say that I don't have that
worry because it's not gonna happen with me.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
He's going to be the one going. I will stay
at home. But what if it jumps from him against
to you?
Speaker 8 (18:38):
That's I will cheerlead and I will sit there and
I'll make sure there's plenty of people between me.
Speaker 7 (18:43):
So you've given fair warning to anything that would want
to attach you that it's not welcome.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
And you're hoping that that'll be good enough. But he
doesn't know that I'm going to say it's okay to detach.
Speaker 10 (18:52):
From me and go to Logan.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
And you know what, it's going to go to Logan.
Speaker 12 (18:56):
All right.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
But that said, that's.
Speaker 7 (18:58):
Here for Kevin Brown Len the Logan here at the
Oregon Ghost Conference, and we'll be right back. I'm Jeremy
Scott into the pair of normal.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Some friends you idea, I'm.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Visiting Oregon.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
You'll find no shortage of locations with paranormal activity, from
hotels to theaters and those places off the beaten path.
Speaker 13 (20:03):
It is a popular belief that many lighthouses out there
are haunted.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Guests have said they've actually seen a ray, shadowy form
that floats through the hallways.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
It's still a very active place in the sense that
you feel a heaviness there.
Speaker 7 (20:20):
People have had sightings of apparitions there.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Pair ofbnormal. It's part pair of normal and part abnormal.
There's nothing ordinary about what's on your speakers into the
pair of normal With Jeremy Scott.
Speaker 7 (20:40):
Welcome back to the Oregon Ghost Conference. I'm Jeremy Scott
and we're here with Ira Kittmaker, who is a published
author of books based on his passion for history and
folkal or Pacific in the Pacific Northwest, including Haunted Graveyard
of the Pacific, Spirits along the Columbia River, Haunted Puget Sound,
and Pacific Northwest Legends and Lord. Hello, Ira, welcome back
to the Ghost Conference. We had you a couple of
(21:01):
years ago and you're back.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
With us, and thank you, Jeremy. I appreciate it absolutely so.
Speaker 7 (21:06):
Why is the interest in the lore and the legends
around the Pacific Northwest, there's got to be a few
of them, huh.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
There are hundreds of these stories, ranging from ghost stories
to cryptids or creatures, to more stories to tie into
historical events, and so I just find them fascinating them.
Originally from New England, and I was always fascinated by
the Salem witch Trials and just the various ghost stories
(21:33):
back in New England. And when I moved down to
the Pacific Northwest, I found just so many of these
stories that I just couldn't help but start writing about them.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
The Pacific Northwest has.
Speaker 7 (21:46):
A plethora of these What kinds of stories are we
talking about here?
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Hauntings?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
And yeah, there's a whole lon of mixim And actually,
in preparation for coming up here to talk with you,
I tried to summarize the ones I thought were sort
of the strangest tales I've come across, and I was
going to limit it to one or two or three,
and in fact to have a list of ten, so
you probably don't have less ten.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Let's start with number one on the list and see
how far.
Speaker 14 (22:09):
We can get.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Okay, and let me tell you just a few more
things about me. So that you mentioned in the books,
and I appreciate that I have two more coming out
this summer similar themes. I'm a historian, I'm a commissioner
on a county historical commission. I'm a professor and a
tour guide, so I do all those different things. So
the strangest tales. You may have already heard some of
these before. And in fact, the guest just prior to
(22:32):
me was talking about Ilwaco, Washington. I'm not sure if
he talked about Mary posonin I don't believe, so, Okay,
So that's one that's pretty close to hear. Mary posonin
nineteen twenty three was the lighthouse keeper's wife in Ilwaco, Washington,
at the North Head Lighthouse. She had what was called melancholia.
Today we would call it depression. She was treated by
a psychologist in Portland, came home, went out for a
(22:54):
walk the next morning with her dog, Jerry. Jerry came back.
She never came back, and then started the ghost stories
of the ghost of Mary posonan and she has been
haunting this region ever since nineteen twenty three. People swear
that they have seen her. I was a tour guide
on the Long Beach Peninsula a couple of years ago
doing a tour and there was an older lady on
a bus that I was doing the tour on and
(23:14):
she said that she went up into the north Head Lighthouse,
was climbing the spiral staircase, looked up and saw a
face staring down at her, wearing old fashioned clothing. I
pulled out my camera and said, well, this is the ghost.
This is the picture of Mary Pisonin and her ghost
has been seen repeatedly. And she said, that's the face
I saw staring down at me, So that's the ghost.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
It was the first sighting of that apparition.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Nineteen twenty three in and around the north Head Lighthouse
and the lighthouse keeper's house.
Speaker 7 (23:39):
You mentioned lighthouses and lighthouses have a special significance to
some of these paranormal happenings, and there's quite a few
here in the Pacific Northwest. Any of those stories that
you want to share with us. Terrible Tilly, which is
right close to here. You probably have heard probably too
many stories about Terrible Tilly, but reportedly haunted one of
the most haunted lighthouses that I know of, and ghost
(24:01):
ships seen frequently. A well known author back in the
nineteen forties was named James Gibbs. He was a lighthouse
keeper for a while there, and he swears that he's
had a ghostly presence put its hands around his neck
push him down the stairs. He and the other lighthouse
keeper swore they saw a ship about to wreck, reported
it to the coast guard, and the coastar said, we
don't have a ship out here. So again, ghost ships,
(24:24):
so terrible. Tilly is probably one of the better known ones.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Any stories regarding mass deaths that occurred.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yes, in fact, and that's one of the items I
listed here. The Graveyard of the Pacific, so that refers
to the coastal area. Most people think that's just the
mouth of the Columbia River at Astoria, not too far
from here. Actually it's all the way from Chillam, Oregon,
all the way up to Vancouver Island in Canada. Over
two thousand ships wrecked in the Graveyard of the Pacific,
(24:53):
with countless lost lives, and those have caused numerous ghost
stories in and around the Graveyard of Pisific. I alway,
I always compare it to the Bermuda Triangle and say
and ask people how many ships wrecked in the Bermuda Triangle.
People have no idea. It was fifty ships and twenty
airplanes compared to the over two thousand ships here in
the Graveyard of the Pacific. So that's the example of
(25:14):
mass death. Another example of mass death, the Oregon Trail
led out from Missouri across the United States eighteen forty
to eighteen sixty out to Oregon, Washington State, and California.
Three hundred thousand immigrants, over thirty thousand deaths. It said
that there is a burial place every mile along the
Oregon Trail, and that has also caused numerous ghost stories.
(25:38):
And I have other I don't know if I'm going
to go down my list or sure pick another few
for us we get time, okay. Shanghai tunnels, Shanghai tunnels
in Portland, Seattle, Astoria, very big, lots of ghost tours.
I was just on a ghost tour. I've been on
the ghost tour many times in Seattle. I went on
it again. Probably one of the best known stories eighteen
ninety three, there was a man named Bunko Kelly. He
(26:00):
was the leading crimper or Shanghai or the p Civic Northwest.
He was walking by a funeral home heard singing and moaning,
stuck his head into the basement and found twenty two
men who he thought were getting drunk. Had his guys
come with wheelbarrows take them out to the ship. Next morning,
the captain found them all dead. They were drinking in
bombing fluid, not alcohol, and so that has caused ghost
(26:22):
stories and around the Shanghai Tunnels. Puget Sound I live
in Olympia A. Puget Sound is the second largest estuary
in the United States after the Chestapeake Bay. Seventy three
shipwrecks and Puget Sound, including the most famous, which was
the Andalana. I don't know if you've ever heard of
the Adalana eighteen ninety nine. This large, foremasted British sailing
ship tied up in Commencement Bay in Tacoma. The crew
(26:45):
hated the ship. They thought the masts were too tall,
didn't do well in the wind. Nine crew snuck off
the ship. The captain found out, got very angry, had
a photograph taken of the remaining seventeen crew as if
to say, don't you dare get off the ship. I
know who you are. Overnight, a freak storm hit caused
the Adlana to roll over and there it sits in
Commencement Bay under two hundred feet of water. The seventeen
(27:06):
men who were photographed twenty four hours before, we're all
dead and they remain inns pain. That's just one of
these shipwrecks. Memlous Island and the Chinook were scared to
death of the dead. They would take the dead from
their villages and take them out to Memlus Island and
the Columbia River Gorge. Lewis and Clark were sailing down
on the Columbia River eighteen oh five and saw this
(27:29):
island and called it Sepulcher Island the Island of the Dead.
And there's numerous ghost stories in the Columbia River Gorge.
I still have a few minutes.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
I just wondered if you had any encryptid stories. Cryptid story.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Well, this one is this border is on being cryptied
and you may have heard of this one before. Bandage Man, Yeah, absolutely,
Bandage Man of Cannon Beach right near here. The story
is in the eighteen fifties. Well, first of all, I'll
say that logging was always very dangerous in the Pacific Northwest,
caused many deaths. And the story is eighteen fifties, there
(28:00):
was a man who was reported to have been horribly injured.
An ambulance came to get him. They wrapped him, wrapped
him up, bandaged him. And then the story gets even weirder.
Supposedly there was landslide, the ambulance was damaged. When they
came out to get the ambulance, nowhere was this bandaged man.
And so bandage Man has been haunting Canon Beach ever
(28:23):
since the nineteen fifties. Supposedly, when teenagers or others park
their truck or their cars looking out at the ocean,
something or someone jumps into the backseat or the bed
of the truck, it starts rocking back and forth, and
that's bandage Man.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Subject of a movie, subject of a book. Which what
are your new books that you're working on.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
I'm actually working on one which are the dark historic
Tales of the old Oregon Washington Territories, so again similar
topics but slightly different. And then I'm also writing my
first historical fiction book again based on the Pacific Northwest
and many of the stories that I have found about
creating a historical fiction.
Speaker 7 (29:01):
Iira, thank you so much for coming on live here
at the Oregon Ghost Conference as Ira Kittmocker. I'm Jeremy
Scott live from Seaside into the pair of normal, pair
(29:24):
of from the Oregon Ghost Conference in Seaside. I am
(29:46):
Jeremy Scott into the par of noormal, somewhere between the
paranormal and the abnormal. Year number thirteen of the program. Well,
that would be of the Oregon Ghost Conference. Here, ye're
twenty twenty five. I think we have Joe Anne here. Yes,
Joe Anne is here. Come on up, Joe Anne Clarkson,
(30:08):
the significant other of one of my favorite guests of
all time here on this program. Yeah, that would be
her husband, James Clarkson, who's been on here talking about UFOs.
We had him on a couple of years ago. He's
been on at the Oregon Ghost Conference. But we're here
to talk with Joe Ann today. A psychic medium who
performs mediumship readings. She also reads palms and taro. She
(30:31):
is the author of several books, including There's Always Miracles,
True Stories of Life Before and After Death and also
Psychic Palmistry, A Guide to Intuition.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Did I get that right?
Speaker 10 (30:42):
All right?
Speaker 7 (30:42):
Fantastic? So a psychic medium? Where did this training start?
Speaker 15 (30:47):
My grandmother was a professional psychic. She read cards. She
read regular playing cards. She and her sisters had come
over on a boat, like many immigrants, expecting to find rich,
handsome husbands, which didn't happen. So I lived in a
boarding house and took in laundry, which was not fulfilling.
But Aunt Ruth learned from gypsies how to tell cards
and taught her sisters, and my grandma ended up being
(31:10):
really good at it and doing that as a professional.
She had a lot of struggles so in her life
and saw a lot of very negative things, so she
taught everyone in the family to do this. And so
as a very young child, I could a six year old,
I could tell playing cards for people. And I'm an Aquarius,
(31:30):
and that means I have to do something original. So
when I was about twelve, I went to the public
library and found every book I could find on palmistry.
I don't even remember why I picked palms, but I did.
And I taught myself to read palms, which nobody else
in the family could do. And so I did that,
and as a teenager. My first paid gig was when
I was sixteen, and I was hired to read palms
(31:53):
and cards at somebody's birthday party, but I loved it.
I did, though, tell Spirit when I was in my
late teens that if I was going to do this work,
I didn't want to see the things that my grandma saw.
I wanted to always see positive things for people that
would help them be the best people they could be.
And Spirit is pretty much honored.
Speaker 5 (32:14):
That for me.
Speaker 7 (32:15):
So this is something that you grew up with, yes,
through childhood. Yeah, is it something you talked about at
that age.
Speaker 16 (32:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 15 (32:23):
We were also very Catholic, and you'd think that might
kind of not coexist with this, but it kind of did,
because Catholics believe in angels and saints and all sorts
of strange things and miracles, and so it didn't seem
odd to us that, you know, you could see miracles
or kind of participating in them, and certainly there were angels.
(32:43):
So yeah, so I was very validated as a child,
which doesn't happen to a lot of people that have
strange visions. And then also in our family there was
a lot of death. My sister had died before I
was shortly before I was born, and then my father
died when I was ten of cancer, and my dear
grandfather who lived next door, was in a horrible traffic accent.
We had a lot of death, but if that can
(33:07):
be positive, I guess because of the religious angles, we
always believed that people were in spirit, they were still
with us in a loving manner, and we could reach
out to them. And so I did that, and it
made me very open to spirits from the other side always.
Speaker 7 (33:24):
So you communicated with deceased family members, I did. What
was that like the first.
Speaker 16 (33:30):
Time, Well, I didn't even think it was odd. I mean,
my dad died.
Speaker 15 (33:35):
When I was ten, and for i'd say, the first
couple of months after he died, every night I would
be in bed, and she always left the door to
my bedroom like partly open, and I would see a
shadow come and I would know that it was my.
Speaker 16 (33:51):
Father come to say good night.
Speaker 15 (33:53):
And he came for a couple of months, and then
he just didn't and I just kind of knew he
had moved on.
Speaker 16 (33:58):
But things like that.
Speaker 15 (34:01):
And then my sister, who I of course never met,
and she died when she was a baby, but I
always knew that she was a significant spirit, and I
knew somehow that she was.
Speaker 16 (34:10):
I looked just like my father.
Speaker 15 (34:11):
I looked just like my cousins on that side, and
I always knew that I took after my father's side.
But my sister, if she would have lived, was like
my mother, with a gift for music. And she was
be tiny and dark, and I would be tall.
Speaker 16 (34:24):
And kind of blonde. And it was interesting.
Speaker 15 (34:26):
But I've always kind of just known this shadow person
that was my sister.
Speaker 7 (34:32):
Would you say you had protectors at some point or
maybe you still do? And if you call them spirit
guides or angels or whatever.
Speaker 15 (34:40):
Oh yeah, I think we're born literally with guardian angels
who try very hard. We don't have to honor what
they say or what they do. But I know throughout
my life I've had spirits that have saved me from
all sorts of buzzar things, and I say thank you
very often. You think, boy, you like to see people
say they dodged a bullet. We all did that sometimes,
(35:03):
and I do believe that sometimes it's a spirit who
actually redirects the bullet.
Speaker 7 (35:09):
Why are spirit guides important and how can we make
contact with them?
Speaker 15 (35:13):
They're important in our lives because they give us a
different dimension. There's so many things in this life and
beyond that we can't really understand or explain, and it's
important to know that there are different energies and that
we really can connect with them to think from a
higher perspective, gain wisdom, maybe gave love, be able to forgive, do.
Speaker 16 (35:34):
All these things.
Speaker 15 (35:36):
And so my two main spirit guides actually are people
that I knew in this life.
Speaker 16 (35:40):
One was.
Speaker 15 (35:42):
A man that was a patient of mine when I
was a nurse that and it was also my neighbor
and ended up being a very dear friend, and he
actually appeared to me in a very special way after
he died and has always been with me. In that
symbol which was actually it wasn't a rainbow so much
as a spectrum.
Speaker 16 (36:00):
But whenever I.
Speaker 15 (36:01):
See spectrums, rainbows, prisms, I know that Jess is nearby
and he has been very protective of me throughout my life,
and he gives me pieces of wisdom at odd times.
Speaker 7 (36:12):
So they come and go as they please, or do
we invite them, do they obey our wishes to come
and then to go or how does that work both both?
Speaker 15 (36:23):
I feel like Jess is kind of always with me,
and if I need to ask him something, I can
reach out. And at other times I spontaneously see like, oh,
a prism in a bevel of a mirror or something,
and I know Jess is around. I saw a little
flick of him yesterday and I knew that he's here
and enjoying the whole thing. He died when he was
(36:43):
one hundred and one, so he had a lot of experience.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
A lot of wisdom to pass down.
Speaker 15 (36:47):
He did, and he was a medical doctor and did
a lot of really many amazing things when he was alive.
And my other main guy, it is d who was
my actually nurse mentor when I became a nurse and life,
who's been in spirit, who very surprisingly i'd forgotten all
about her, to be honest, and because she had died
of cancer, and one day she suddenly literally appeared to
(37:11):
me when I was meditating. I don't see a ghost
like I see you, but there was. I sensed a presence.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Make a horrible looking ghost.
Speaker 16 (37:18):
I think you're kind of handsome.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 16 (37:22):
But I saw this.
Speaker 15 (37:23):
I felt this energetic presence, and I looked over and
I saw I tend to see ghosts hair. People see
different evidence of ghosts, and I have hair identity because
as a child I had really long hair, like I
could sit on. And I have long hair most of
my life, and I think that gave me this hair
identity thing. So I tend to see ghosts hair and
(37:44):
my friend colors sometimes. And like my friend D, even
when she was older, her hair never turned gray. It
stayed kind of dark brown, and it was naturally curly.
She was very proud of her hair. So anyway, so
when this ghost is standing next to me, I could
see that hair and I said, my gosh, is it
and then she confirmed, yes, it's D.
Speaker 16 (38:02):
But she was there for a reason.
Speaker 15 (38:03):
There was another nurse that we had worked with when
we worked in hospice, and she had a message for
Sherry from Sherry's dead husband that she thought was very important.
Speaker 16 (38:13):
She wanted me to deliver, so I did. I called up.
Speaker 15 (38:16):
Sherry and told her what D had said, which really
floored I was very close to D when we worked together,
but Sherry wasn't. And Sherry said, you know, if D
had appeared to me, I wouldn't.
Speaker 16 (38:25):
Have believed her. And I said, well, I know, that's
why she came to me.
Speaker 15 (38:28):
But anyway, but about a week after that apparition, D
came again and she said to me. She said, you know,
life on the other side is very chaotic. People are
coming and going, and a lot of people don't know
they're dead right away, and you know, and people are
in different development of their spirit still occurs after anyway.
To make a long story even longer, she said, if
(38:50):
you have someone on earth as trying to contact a spirit,
you can ask me and I'll look around and see
if I can find them. And the other way too.
If I have a spirit on the other side that
really needs a message to be delivered, and you're open
and you think it's possible to deliver that, I'll send
it through. How would you like that? And I said fine?
And that was about let's see about six years ago now.
(39:13):
And we've continued to work together and she and I
give readings, and I give gallery readings like Peter Bay
and I read together a lot, and we read our audiences.
Speaker 16 (39:21):
Dee is very helpful.
Speaker 15 (39:22):
She points out which people need to connect and sometimes
spirits go through and I have a great time and
it takes tent some of the pressure off of me.
Speaker 7 (39:32):
Are ghosts needing our help in any way, maybe to
encourage them to go to the other side or that
it's okay to go to the other side.
Speaker 15 (39:40):
I don't think that's why they need our help, but
they think I think they need our help. I have
one spirit. I guess he's a guy. He's someone that
appears to me that was a young man that took
his own life. And I knew him for a short
time on this side, and he seems to attach and
attach ourselves to our house for a while. And it
isn't that Travis needs to move on. Travel isn't going
(40:00):
to move on for a while. But Travis was a
person in this life. Like Travis did a lot of
different jobs, including he was a crabber in like northern Alaska,
which is very dangerous work. And on those boats, especially
in the winter, if someone falls overboard, they're just dead
because you can't save him in time it's so cold.
So Travis was on this boat and one of them
(40:23):
the sea's got way rather than they thought. A wave
took a guy over the side, and you know, but
Travis jumped it after him and saved his life. And
that's the kind of guy Travis was. And there are
many stories of Travis, but Travis had a hard life.
He had tourette syndrome, and it had a hard childhood
and one day he just couldn't deal with it anymore
and he took his own life. And and but he
(40:47):
did appear. He came to our house. That's a long
story for right now. But he stayed around. And it's
just because Travis. When he said to me the first
time I saw him there, he said, Joanne, I just
want to help. I just want to help. And so
he doesn't want to move on, and he's not supposed to.
He's still supposed to be helpful in this slot.
Speaker 7 (41:05):
Johan, thanks so much. Joe Clarkson here from the Oregon
Ghost Conference. I'm Jeremy Scott.
Speaker 9 (41:14):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
If you think this hour is mind blowing, just wait
until you hear what's next. Into the pair ab normal,
We'll be right back.
Speaker 5 (41:28):
There's a parallel universe until their separations.
Speaker 6 (41:35):
While we perceived sue reality.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
Over the gate, let the truth be.
Speaker 5 (41:44):
Know it's calling me into the pair of.
Speaker 6 (41:51):
No, into the pay of no, into the parent.
Speaker 12 (42:01):
So hold on time.
Speaker 4 (42:05):
You're about to land somewhere into the fear of normal Paris.
Speaker 7 (42:12):
You know, we've probably been about an hour talking with
each of the guests, but we want to give you
a little bit of as much flavor as we can,
a little bit of everybody, as many as we can
fit into the show.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
But we're giving you guys double the time because you're
that worth it. Ross Allison June Nixon with us.
Speaker 7 (42:33):
Ross is close to thirty two years of experiencing investigating
the paranormal, over twenty years running a ghost hunting group.
The founder of Advanced Ghost Hunters of Seattle, Tacoma now
runs a Ghost Investigations travels internationally to investigate paranormal activity,
collect ghost stories, research cemeteries, and teach others about the
strange things going on all around us. The world is
(42:56):
pretty strange. Is it's stranger now than it has been
in the past. Sure feels that way.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Ross, Well, I definitely would say yes, it's it still
fascinates me and or as we're still trying to come
up with the answers as to everything that's going on
around us. I'm definitely still chugging a law.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (43:19):
So traveling international, what kind of places do you go to?
Is there something that you're looking for?
Speaker 1 (43:24):
You know, it's the experience, you know, just getting outside
of the States and going all over the world. There's
just so much to learn and experience so much history,
you know, spending the night in haunted castles. You can't
usually do that in the States, and sometimes you even
strip down naked for it, don't you. Yes, Oh yes,
(43:45):
if you want to get into parasons definitely.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
By the way, how has that been going? Have you knew?
You guys were good some additional research with we.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Are it's we're still working on the sequel. It's been
a little tough because Chad Goodwin, who was actually our
scientist for the first one, he's been working in Africa
on some energy experiments.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
So it's been a little tough getting secret stuff.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Yeah, I can't say too much, but we're still working
with him and trying to work on some new experiments.
So it's it's coming along.
Speaker 10 (44:19):
Now.
Speaker 7 (44:19):
Your counterpart over here, miss jew Nixon, has been in
paranormal field since two thousand and five, vice president and
client coordinator of the Advanced Ghost Hunters of Seattle, Tacoma,
and you, like Ross, have traveled all over the world
and investigating castles and other enchanted places.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
So what gets you going, you know, into this?
Speaker 14 (44:41):
Oh, you know, it's just trying to make Yeah, he
makes me.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
I mean you pay the bill.
Speaker 17 (44:47):
Oh, I wish you know, it's just.
Speaker 14 (44:51):
You know, going into the unknown.
Speaker 17 (44:53):
And like Ross said, it's the history being in some
of these places that you know are over you know,
thousand years old, a thousand year old castle, and it's
just thinking of all that's happened there and the people
that have died there, and do they still have a
message to tell us? You know, is there something there?
So it's just incredible. And the more I do it,
(45:15):
the more I want to do it more. And you know,
and sadly, you.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
Know, she's already made plans to leave us for Edinburgh.
Speaker 17 (45:22):
Yeah uh yeah, it's like I wish if I could
afford it, I would do it in a second.
Speaker 14 (45:28):
But it's it's just amazing. I love it.
Speaker 7 (45:31):
How many haunted castles have you visited individually and together?
Speaker 1 (45:37):
God, just in our presentation we had over forty that
we've had the opportunity to check out some of them
spend the night. So but that's only including the ones
that have stories of being haunted. I'd have to stay
probably close to maybe three hundred.
Speaker 5 (45:54):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
We have been to a lot of just ruins and
all that stuff. Yes, yes, it's been amazing.
Speaker 17 (46:00):
And as Ross always says, just because it's really old
doesn't mean it's haunted.
Speaker 14 (46:04):
But with castles, you know.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
They all got is there are a certain smell that
gives it away.
Speaker 14 (46:10):
I wish that'd even be better.
Speaker 7 (46:13):
What about the evidence? Do you collect evidence when you're
out these Oh yeah, we try.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
You know, each time we have the opportunity to do
a full on investigation.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
Definitely.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
I think one of our favorite experiences was Chillingham Castle, Yes,
Chillingham which Chillingham Castle is just outside of London in Chillingham.
It's an amazing castle that's been documented as one of
the most haunted castles in the UK. Tons and tons
(46:42):
of bloody, gruesome history, you know, basically putting people up
in cages along the trees just to prove to everybody
that this is a place you don't want to mess with.
Ye torture chambers as well. But as we're talking about
evidence collected. We had the castle for a couple nights
(47:06):
we were there and on the first nights we had
taken the tour, the ghost tour, and in the tour,
the tour guide's telling us, you know, no one likes
to be outside of the castle, after midnights, no one
can handle it, you know, so me being a ghost hunter,
were like challenge accepted, you know. And they're talking about
(47:30):
things that happened in the woods because it's surrounded by
these woods. It's a liddle nowhere, literally, and so it
was just after midnights we decided to go out and
investigate the woods. And of course there's interesting things happening.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
I know, June, you want to talk about.
Speaker 17 (47:47):
The your jacket being pulled all of a sudden, Like
Ross is a couple of feet away from me. He's like, June,
did you just pull on my jacket? And I was like, no,
I didn't pull on your jacket. And it was just
really weird because when Ross has an experience, you know,
you know something's going on because you know he's yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
Exactly energy about him, right exactly. So I just don't
always jump on every little thing, you know.
Speaker 17 (48:15):
So we were trying to go ahead and start screaming
and running away. He does not do that, you know,
and so we're trying to figure out what it could
have been. And the second after that happened, we start
hearing the sound of laughter and.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Like these women like shit chatting, but you can never
make out what they were saying. Now, there was a
small group of ladies also staying in the castle. It's
just us and the small group of ladies. So we
had the castle to amongst ourselves, and we realize, oh,
you know, they've decided to take on the challenge and
go investigate the woods.
Speaker 17 (48:52):
Oh darn it, you know they're they're interrupting our investigation.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
So we were trying to figure out where they were
so that we could at least you're clear of them
and so they don't contaminate our investigation. Now, I want
to point out that this night was extremely dark. I
mean it was cloudy, so no moonlight coming through, and
so you needed flashlights to move around through these woods.
And hearing these women wandering around, we're trying to figure
(49:19):
out where they are, and it should be easy to
point pinpoint where they are because they should have flashlights.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
Are they middle aged women? Older women?
Speaker 5 (49:27):
Sound?
Speaker 9 (49:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 14 (49:29):
Yeah, yeah, but it was hard to discern. It was
hard to discern.
Speaker 17 (49:33):
We just heard it sounded like women's voices laughing and
you know, kind of walking. And it was only not
that far from us. It was about twenty feet away
from us, but it was.
Speaker 3 (49:42):
Far enough that you couldn't make out what they were saying.
Yeah you.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
So basically, as we're trying to pinpoint where they are,
we can't see any flashlights or anything like that, and
they would need flashlights if they're going to wander around
the woods.
Speaker 17 (49:57):
And it was lots of leaves and branches on the ground.
We here, we started thinking, we're not hearing any footsteps.
We're not hearing any of those steps.
Speaker 3 (50:04):
Yeah, we're not seeing anything.
Speaker 14 (50:06):
What's going on.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
All we're hearing is these women mumbling around and they're
not making any.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
Noise or anything.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
So one of the things that we had forgotten about
is the ghost stories of women wandering around in the
woods and they talk about, you know, workers from the
castle would take shortcuts through the woods to get to.
Speaker 3 (50:29):
Their homes and what was it else.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
It was like talk about the hangings, oh, stuff like that,
So that there's also talks about a lot of these
women might have been.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
Hung from the trees in the woods in that area.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
There is a famous hanging tree in the woods there too,
And so we started to realize that maybe what we're
experiencing is not the other ladies staying in the castle.
These actually could be ghosts, and so that was a
pretty interesting experience because we were never able to pinpoint
the voices or see any evidence.
Speaker 3 (51:05):
Of the living.
Speaker 7 (51:06):
So they have to be able to project themselves into
what we can hear, right, because they're on a different freagency.
Hold that thought. We will continue from the Oregon Ghost
Conference with Ross, Allison and jew Nixon.
Speaker 12 (51:30):
Into the Pharaoh normal Pharaoh.
Speaker 7 (51:47):
You know, I've admitted many times that I'm okay to
be viewed as a sissy. I don't enjoy going into
haunted places. That would not be an enjoyable experience for me,
But I'm of a different mindset. I love talking about it,
I love talking about those who have been there and
done that. But you're not going to find me with
my hand raised saying yeah, I'll be the next one
(52:08):
going in. What is it about going to these locations?
There's got to be a little bit of a feeling
of isolation, especially when you're going to these haunted castles,
which are out in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by forest.
I mean, it's not like you can just go down
to the corner convenience store if you run out of something.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
You're really out there.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
Yeah, we are, And what draws me is is the history.
You know, some of these places just have such an
amazing history. What was the one about the Agnes.
Speaker 14 (52:43):
Oh, yes, that was the ELTs ELTs Castle. Yes, with Agnes.
Speaker 17 (52:48):
She was a bit of a tomboy and she was
about fourteen years old, ready for marriage at the time.
But she did not like to wear dresses. She didn't
like tea parties. She was a very let's say, she
liked to spar with her brothers.
Speaker 14 (53:04):
She liked, you know, just rough housing.
Speaker 16 (53:06):
She did like.
Speaker 17 (53:07):
Oh, that's until her parents promised her a marriage. So
she met her dream man as I say that in
air quotes, and they threw a big party before the wedding,
and unfortunately for the whole situation, he tried to kiss her. Well,
she was very offended for that, and she hauled off
(53:29):
and slugged him. So let's just say that he was humiliated,
His whole family was humiliated. Everybody was humiliated. They all left,
and Agnes's family were terrified, waiting for retaliation, and they
waited and waited for months or weeks, months or whatever
(53:53):
for some sort of retaliation and there was none.
Speaker 14 (53:56):
When all of a.
Speaker 3 (53:56):
Sudden, the men decided to go hunting.
Speaker 17 (54:01):
Exactly, the men decided to go hunting, and that's of
course when the family retaliated and they had this big blowout.
But she wasn't going to sit alone inside her castle tower.
She wanted to get out there and fight, so she
put armor on. She went out there and she started fighting,
you know, the other people, and it said that her
(54:21):
former fiance actually stabbed her through the heart and the breastplate,
and they still have the breastplate in the castle that too.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
He didn't know he was. He didn't know that because
she was in full armor. I thought it was just
a y night.
Speaker 17 (54:37):
And after he saw her and what he did, he
was horrified and terrified and he left. But that's one
of the ghost stories too, saying that he is bound
to that property, you know, sorrowful and guilt ridden, running
around the property on his black horse, you.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
Know, around the castle. But they also believed that she
hunts the castle as well.
Speaker 14 (55:01):
See a young woman.
Speaker 3 (55:02):
Yeah, so she's.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Seen around the because they still have the breastplate on
display with the damage from the spear that went through it,
and they believe that she haunts around that area.
Speaker 17 (55:13):
Yeah, so fascinating stories in the history. It's just incredible.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
Well that's just one of them. You know, all these
castles that we use all over the world. Ours could
write a book.
Speaker 3 (55:22):
Or two about that.
Speaker 7 (55:23):
June you sing in some of these locations some of
them do. Yeah, And what's the rationale behind that.
Speaker 17 (55:29):
Well, sometimes you use trigger objects, you know, we call
it trigger objects. So if you're in a place that
like a theater or something like that, and uh, you know,
there was a lot of music at the time, and
you think, well, maybe if I sing something, they'll you know.
Speaker 1 (55:44):
Something from their castle in Wales actually has some interesting history.
Speaker 17 (55:49):
That was a famous opera singer in this castle in Wales,
and I thought.
Speaker 3 (55:53):
I'd June sings opera just so you know.
Speaker 17 (55:56):
I stand on the stage and try to sing, and
you know, I thought, well, either she'll try to strangle
me and tell me to shut up, she'll throw things
at me, you know, or something, and you know.
Speaker 3 (56:07):
But what usually happens.
Speaker 14 (56:09):
It just depends, you know, maybe it's a location.
Speaker 1 (56:12):
You know, we didn't have anything at that castle. What
was the name of the castle, I'm trying to remember. Yes,
so that's the one in Wales that was owned by
this famous opera singer that the Queen Victoria just loved.
She would actually visit the castle and watch her performances
because she had this build, this big theater on her
property and that's where June actually stood on the stage
(56:33):
and performed opera. But she also did this when we
were at the castle, Roslin Castle, which is another beautiful castle,
mostly in ruins, but there is a house that you
can actually stay in, and we actually had rented that
house for three days.
Speaker 3 (56:51):
We were staying this beautiful four days.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
So we had this house to ourselves on this around
surrounded by the ruins of this castle. But underneath the
house is like three levels of dungeon and we have
full access to this at any time. And so being
that we were in Scotland, we actually went down into
the dungeon area and again, like June said, she tries
(57:14):
to use this as a trigger, so she was singing
old Scottish songs to see if anything might respond. Because
you know, if you think about it, singing was a
big entertainment for them. You know, they didn't have TV, right,
you know, if you're in a castle, you do all
kinds of different things to entertain yourself. And and I
think we actually had some pretty interesting responses when she
(57:35):
was singing these old Scottish songs.
Speaker 3 (57:39):
Some of these castles are people able to visit or else.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
A lot of them are you know, just public areas
that you can check out. Some of them are just
parks where you can want to.
Speaker 17 (57:49):
There are part of the Royal Trust that you can
actually rent when you go to some of these places.
Speaker 14 (57:55):
So it's it's yeah, pretty amazing you have to be.
Speaker 3 (57:58):
And some of them are hotels now converting over to hotels.
Speaker 14 (58:01):
Like Fontarf Castle and in Ireland and Dublin.
Speaker 10 (58:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (58:04):
Does it seem like some of these entities, spirits, ghosts,
whatever we want to call them, can be mischievous at times?
Speaker 1 (58:11):
Oh yeah, well now you're just mischievous, i'd say. You know,
you get some intelligent responses as well as you know,
we were talking about Chillingham Castle. We were investigating the
old kitchen area and during that investigation I had asked,
you know, if there's something here, you know, please just
give me a sign. And right when I had asked
(58:32):
that the door had opened up on its own, and
I was like, oh, you know that's interesting. But you know,
being in a drafty old castle, you know, I just
thought it was just the draft. So I went and
shut the door again, and again I started to say, well,
you know, if that was you.
Speaker 3 (58:48):
Could you do it again?
Speaker 1 (58:50):
And sure enough, the door opened right after asking that.
But again I was still trying to be a little skeptical,
and you know, shut the door again, just want to
make sure. And I asked that the same thing, you know,
prove to me that you're here. And the door opened again,
and I.
Speaker 17 (59:08):
Was like, can you open it a little wider? And
it opened wider and then shut.
Speaker 1 (59:14):
Yeah, And I said, can you shut the door just
to make sure. You know, if it was the draft
opened the door, would it shut the door? And I say,
can you shut the door? And right when I said it,
the door shut?
Speaker 3 (59:24):
So are you both?
Speaker 7 (59:25):
Do you have something special about you that attracts all
of this or what?
Speaker 15 (59:30):
Well?
Speaker 1 (59:30):
I think the biggest thing is, you know, treat them
with kindness. Yeah, you know, you probably get more responses.
I don't go in there.
Speaker 7 (59:38):
Cussing their house, you know, and just I just appear
to me, you know, or els sign or I mean
that's that all about.
Speaker 3 (59:46):
They're people too, right, They had just crossed over and.
Speaker 1 (59:50):
Yeah, and I think a lot of times they're just
maybe you know, if you're thinking about castles, maybe they're
looking to be entertained, or you know, sometimes they like
June sides. They may be, you know, just want to
pass on a message, or they're just curious.
Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Yeah, curious.
Speaker 7 (01:00:04):
Are there any of these haunted castles around the Pacific
Northwest or do we have to travel?
Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Luckily, there are castles in the United States. I'm trying
to think, is there anything on the Pacific Northwest except
for Victoria?
Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
Oh no, there's the one in California that we actually
got to check out, was it?
Speaker 5 (01:00:23):
Oh my god?
Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
You had to ask that question after we're still recovering
from jet lage.
Speaker 14 (01:00:28):
From Jack Daniels Daniel.
Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
But there is there's a couple that we actually investigated
in California. California has a nice handful of castles.
Speaker 14 (01:00:40):
Say Preston Castle, yeahs.
Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
Hearst what Hurst Castle?
Speaker 16 (01:00:48):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
Yeah, we did that one. We got to tour that one.
But I'm trying to think of the one that's actually God,
this is trying to get quick, I know, think of
me quick and I'm just not yet. Got me under pressure.
Speaker 17 (01:00:59):
We'll have to google castles in California.
Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
But there was that one that you actually got not
know it's it's actually a castle that was shipped here
in California, and it actually the guy who actually I
believe he created the radio. I remember there was like
a room that had all these radios and stuff like that.
(01:01:24):
June is losing it for me, Sorry, I tell you,
but there was We were actually in one of the
rooms that we captured an e VP of a male
voice when June had said, was there somebody here? And
it was like yes, and that was a pretty cool place.
Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
They said, we're done, We're done. Nothing you to I know,
I know, We're sorry. I failed.
Speaker 7 (01:01:48):
Good friends. Nixon won't be the last time we talked
to him. Sure here at the Oregon Ghost Conference, thank
you so much.
Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
But I was seeing shadow people, I was seeing ghost dogs.
Speaker 7 (01:02:15):
She basically heard her name come back across this video
and it sounded pretty demonic.
Speaker 18 (01:02:24):
I heard a voice in a room where I'm all alone,
very plainly say calmly, brother, brother, you are welcome or
welcome here.
Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
The energy was so powerful. Of these haunts, they can
almost draw you into that scenario, and it's terrifying these homeowners.
Speaker 17 (01:02:43):
I believe that we have all sorts of entities around
us and energies, and then something just goes crash burn.
Speaker 7 (01:02:50):
The vase was able to get close enough to the
edge that a ghost could push it, because nothing else
could have done it de.
Speaker 18 (01:02:58):
Side full body opperation, nereusly going to the building.
Speaker 5 (01:03:00):
Anymore and.
Speaker 4 (01:03:04):
Into the para normal with Jeremy Scott and somewhere between
the paranormal and the app or we.
Speaker 3 (01:03:11):
Just had an EVP come over this system there and
if anybody heard that, maybe we'll play it back.
Speaker 7 (01:03:17):
We certainly have had a few ghosts in the machine
here for the thirteenth Daniel Oregon Ghost Conference here in
Seaside at the Seaside Civic in Convention Center. I'm Jeremy Scott.
Somewhere between the paranormal.
Speaker 4 (01:03:30):
And the abnormal.
Speaker 7 (01:03:31):
This is what we talk about all year long, not
just here at the Ghost Conference, but nightly. We talk
about the paranormal and the strange and the unexplained. So
if this is your kind of thing, you can check
us out all across America on great radio stations and
of course streaming and on podcast As they say, wherever
you listen to podcasts, you'll find this show. Joining me
(01:03:54):
next is Ana Fantasia, who has a degree in both
cultural anthropology and literature from the University of cal California, Davis.
She was a board member and docent at Preston Castle
in Ione, California for over ten years, where she led
both paranormal and historical tours, and is currently a member
of nor CAPS Northern California Amateur Paranormal Society and it
(01:04:16):
currently works for a science museum in Davis, California, and
gives paranormal and historical tours at the Fulsome History Museum
in Fulsome, California.
Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
Good to have you here. How are you?
Speaker 7 (01:04:26):
I'm great, Thank you, appreciate you coming up from California
to share some of the Golden State's history with us
here in the Pacific Northwest. So tell us about the
places that you have worked, that you've volunteered at that
there have been paranormal happenings.
Speaker 19 (01:04:41):
Well, the big one is Preston Castle. It's located in Ione, California.
It's near Jackson. It's been on quite a few of
the paranormal shows and it's well known for housing many
ghosts of the wards or the boys that were housed
there in its over one hundred year history.
Speaker 7 (01:05:01):
And so all sorts of paranormal events have happened throughout time.
Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
Right, Yes, it has quite a.
Speaker 19 (01:05:07):
Bit of paranormal activity from the boys which were rewards
to some of the guards, some of the teachers. There's
always something interesting there, lots going on.
Speaker 3 (01:05:19):
Do we know, like how many ghosts reside there?
Speaker 12 (01:05:21):
Oh?
Speaker 19 (01:05:22):
You know, it's really interesting because there are only records
of just a handful of boys that have passed away
at the location, but there are several books that show
that there's a lot more than what they say, and
there's several that are buried there on the grounds.
Speaker 7 (01:05:40):
And people have then claimed to see these individuals returning
from the dead, and they've been able to say it
was this person or that person based on certain traits
or character characteristics that this ghost may have.
Speaker 19 (01:05:53):
Yeah, the boys are very vocal, so we have lots
of EVPs.
Speaker 14 (01:05:57):
They will take what they.
Speaker 19 (01:05:58):
Will tell a short snippets of some stories anywhere, from
a boy who died excuse me, when he fell off
a horse to a boy who stole money from his aunt.
Speaker 3 (01:06:11):
Interesting.
Speaker 7 (01:06:12):
We have our youngest guest ever here at the Oregon
Ghost Conference.
Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
How old are you? Ornata? Eighteen?
Speaker 18 (01:06:18):
All right?
Speaker 7 (01:06:19):
Well, Ranata Faerie, you are Anna's daughter, and you're a senior.
You attend to Rosemond Tai in Sacramento, and you're studying
Japanese language and culture.
Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
I understand.
Speaker 20 (01:06:30):
Yeah, I take a Japanese class.
Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
You were exposed through your mother to the paranormal. Is
that true?
Speaker 20 (01:06:39):
That is true. When I was very young, we would
go to a castle called Preston Castle, and I was
there like as young as like I don't know, five six.
Speaker 3 (01:06:55):
Very young, and what happened, Well.
Speaker 20 (01:07:00):
I'd hear sounds, I'd hear knocks at the door. I'm
not as paranormally gifted as she is. I just hear noises.
I don't I don't see them. I don't hear them.
Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
When was your first experience? Do you remember that one?
Speaker 20 (01:07:17):
I don't really remember. I just hear noises and sometimes
I feel pressure. And that's that's pretty much it.
Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
What are you guys here at the ghost conference to
talk about?
Speaker 19 (01:07:29):
We're talking about the spirits of Japan, also known as yokai.
Yokai are very different than what we consider uh are
in our paranormal we mostly focus on you know, we
have cryptids and we have ghosts, and they do have
some of that as well. But because a lot of
the okai are based on a Shinto belief system, which
(01:07:51):
believes that everything is filled with spirit, which they called kami,
they have things from haunted objects which are called the sukimogami,
to deities that they also consider yo kai. And they
have ghosts as well, which they call you ada. But
it falls under the whole yokai blanket. So there's many
(01:08:11):
different things that can be a yo kai.
Speaker 7 (01:08:14):
And you're hoping through your education ranata that you're able
to I don't know what are you hoping. How that
plays into the paranormal here.
Speaker 20 (01:08:25):
Well, the paranormal is very focused on specific types of
ghost stories, very Christianized, which what we are trying to
do is expose them to other cultures because it's not
just it's not just like Christianized cultures that exist. You know,
there's like there's Buddhism, there's Shinto, there's other types of cultures.
(01:08:49):
We just need to expose them.
Speaker 19 (01:08:51):
So what we're what we hope to do is to
broaden the idea of what we consider paranormal. Because we
go out to our life locations and we come back
and then label something like oh, that is a residual
or that is a haunting because of there might be
some tragedy or someone passed away.
Speaker 3 (01:09:09):
But there's this whole other aspect.
Speaker 19 (01:09:11):
Of the paranormal that we aren't necessarily exposed to because
we are very centered and our ideas are based on
our own experiences. But when you go to other countries,
you may experience something completely different that we may not
necessarily have an idea for. And in being able to
broaden our paranormal horizons, we can come up with more
(01:09:33):
ideas and more hypotheses as to what we are experiencing.
Speaker 7 (01:09:37):
Is the paranormal in Japan viewed differently or much the
same as the States?
Speaker 19 (01:09:42):
It is viewed a little differently. It's not so much
of a hobby for them like it is for us,
where we become paranormal.
Speaker 3 (01:09:49):
Investigators, or we go a little bit more.
Speaker 19 (01:09:51):
They have a little bit more respect in that, you know,
we go out and we expect to come back the
way we came. We don't expect to be terribly hurt
or you know, have any negative repercussions of it. Necessarily,
if we do all the right rituals, you know, if
we pray, if we ask you know someone to protect us,
whereas in Japan you may.
Speaker 14 (01:10:12):
Be going out.
Speaker 19 (01:10:13):
For instance, let's talk about a specific yo kaid called
the mujina. So the mujina can manifest in various different forms.
It also manifests like a no pair of ball, which
is a faceless woman generally right, So as a ghost hunter,
you may go out and go, oh, I saw a
faceless woman. It's a you da, it's a ghost. But
you're actually dealing with a minor deity, which is a mujina.
(01:10:35):
So so there could be repercussions if you didn't treat
this specific entity with the respect that they expect.
Speaker 7 (01:10:43):
Ranada, Are you being taught a little bit about the
Japanese culture when it comes to paranormal.
Speaker 20 (01:10:50):
Well, the only experience I've had with the Japanese culture
is through our presentation and a little bit in my
Japanese class. And also I did go to Japan. We
did well. We were walking in Japan. We saw a
whole line of tanuki statues, which are usually you know,
(01:11:11):
they're seen forks.
Speaker 19 (01:11:14):
Are Tanukis are raccoon dogs?
Speaker 20 (01:11:16):
Yeah, they're raccoon dogs, but their statues are seen for
good luck. A lot of people there's also some stories
where they can like transform into other things, like there's
shows where they transform.
Speaker 7 (01:11:28):
So shape shifting and then the darker side of the
Japanese paranormal culture will continue with Ana Fantasia and run
out a ferry from the Oregon Ghost Conference.
Speaker 3 (01:11:37):
Right after this.
Speaker 12 (01:11:52):
Into the Paarah normal pair of.
Speaker 7 (01:12:06):
From the Oregon Ghost Conference, an infantation run out a
ferry of the Northern California Amateur Paranormal Society talking about Yoka.
These are the Japanese ghosts, right, Is that how you
would describe them.
Speaker 19 (01:12:17):
They are Japanese supernatural entities. They're not necessarily just ghosts,
but ghosts is one aspect of them.
Speaker 7 (01:12:23):
Yes, so I think, and Ran I think you were
talking about this before the break.
Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
The ability to shape shift.
Speaker 19 (01:12:29):
Yes, those are the obake, and so they generally start
off as animals, but they can shape shift into beautiful women.
They can shape shift sometimes into men. So they generally
uh the obake. Like I said, they could be anything
from a kamaitachi, which is a sickle weasel, and they
(01:12:49):
can also shape shift as well to a tanuki is
known for shape shifting. The mojina is known to shape
shift as a woman, which also takes the form of
a no pair of bo which is no face, so
she would take a form of a beautiful woman and
maybe even a relative. And when you talk to her,
it looks just like someone you may know. And then
(01:13:11):
she wipes her face off with her hand and next
you know.
Speaker 7 (01:13:14):
Almost appears human like, yes, until the face disappears correct,
and then you know you're not dealing with something that's normal.
Speaker 3 (01:13:21):
Correct.
Speaker 19 (01:13:21):
And there's also some that are specific to Buddhism, like
the Moojina will sometimes shape shift into a Buddhist monk,
and you know they live many, many, many years, and
so you may think that you're dealing with a Buddhist monk,
but a few years down the road you might find
a cleverly masked tail because when they let their guard
(01:13:43):
down or when they rest or when they're resting, they
may take their original form.
Speaker 3 (01:13:47):
What were you saying, A raccoon dog.
Speaker 20 (01:13:49):
Yeah, so a tanuki is literally a raccoon dog, and
they are along with being like a statue in Japan,
they're also actual animals that you can see in Japan.
They look like raccoons, but fluffier, more brown.
Speaker 5 (01:14:06):
Uh.
Speaker 20 (01:14:06):
Yeah, so tanoki's can shape shift. Something they're they're known
for is their big gonads. They're big balls. Yeah, no,
big big balls. Uh yeah, they use.
Speaker 3 (01:14:22):
Wow we went there, we did.
Speaker 7 (01:14:25):
Yeah, Well she's eighteen. I mean if she was, you know, seventeen,
I might not have made that joke. But I think
we have a safe audience here. So do you ever
grab them by the you know, whats.
Speaker 3 (01:14:38):
No? Okay, because that goes back down to the respect part.
Speaker 19 (01:14:41):
Right, correct, You want to be very careful what you grab,
all right?
Speaker 3 (01:14:45):
Well, uh, what about how you address them?
Speaker 7 (01:14:48):
Do you talk to them any special way, like say
in Japanese or for.
Speaker 19 (01:14:52):
Instance, the kappa. The kappa is one of the yo kai.
It's a water yo kai usually resides in rivers and
they on the top of their heads. They have a
bowl where they have some water. And the kapa is
one of the yokai that's a very traditional and very
into respect. So they tend to bow. So when they bow,
(01:15:13):
they may lose some of the water from the top
of their heads. And of course if you replace the water,
because they can't unbow, they can't come back up from
their bow until you replace the water. Then they consider
you as a friend. Otherwise they could also be hostile
as well, but generally the Kappa they have provided fish
(01:15:35):
and they've also taught taught medicine, and that's the legend
of the Kappa.
Speaker 7 (01:15:41):
Okay, what about the darker side, maybe the hostile entities?
Does Japanese culture discuss demons? Do they believe in demons?
Speaker 19 (01:15:50):
And demons are the one They're a little different than
what we consider the demons are demons, which you know
are fallen angels or something to that effect. But in Japan,
demons are generally they can be multiple colors, they can
be blue or red, and they are negative entities, but
they're more of an ogre.
Speaker 7 (01:16:12):
What about the origins of the yokai and the way
uraday you there.
Speaker 5 (01:16:18):
Go so you day?
Speaker 19 (01:16:19):
The origins of you day would be similar to our origins. Generally,
they tend to be spirits that are out for vengeance
because they something bad happened in them in life, and
they can be exercise or excise. Through Buddhist monks, there's
something called afuda, which is a Japanese it's Shinto holy
(01:16:41):
writings that they're like scrolls that you can place on
the yoda's forehead, and that would exercise excise a euryde
or Also you can also help them move on through
holy writes, you know, holy burial. So yeah, there are
(01:17:01):
different ways to move on from a day. Other negative entities,
you know, all the entities in Japan because we're talking
about kami. Really they can be either negative or positive
because we're back to the idea of the yin and
the yang. So some will have positive aspects, some will
have negative aspects, and they can switch back and forth.
So something that may have been very positive, like we
(01:17:23):
were talking earlier about the kappa, could be very positive
on one instance, but also if you disrespect it could
be very negative.
Speaker 3 (01:17:30):
We're not any thoughts on all this.
Speaker 20 (01:17:34):
Yeah, I feel like it also kind of goes back
to Christianity in a way because we view demons ultimately
as all evil angels purists of saints. But the thing
is in Shinto belief, there's no one side or the other,
like both can be both things. Like what if you
(01:17:56):
treat them respectfully, they can be very nice. If you
treat them respectfully, they can be you know, bad. It's
like they just don't have that like evil or not
evil sort of situation, Like no one's truly a demon.
Speaker 14 (01:18:12):
Let's be honest here.
Speaker 3 (01:18:15):
So you don't personally believe in demons. I don't know
about that.
Speaker 12 (01:18:21):
No.
Speaker 20 (01:18:22):
There The thing is, humans don't know really how we live,
how we what's gonna happen when we die. We're still
figuring it out. So I'm very iffy on that, you know,
still learning about all the cultures. It's like, can't answer
that for you.
Speaker 7 (01:18:40):
Does the Japanese people do the Japanese people believe in
an after life?
Speaker 19 (01:18:46):
Well, it depends Japanese. The faith in Japan is a
mix of Buddhism, Shintoism, and Taoism, and a lot of
times they kind of incorporate parts of themselves, especially when
we're talking about the yo kai. So reincarnation is big,
correct in not necessarily in Taoism, but Taoism does believe
(01:19:09):
that there is spirit in everything. Their spirit in this table,
and it after a certain amount of time, then that
spirit will materialize as a yokai. And that's how we
come up with the sukimogami, which are the haunted objects.
But they're the big one is reincarnation. So yes, they
do believe in an afterlife, but reincarnation is big. You know,
you're you're trying to get to your nirvana.
Speaker 7 (01:19:30):
Right, So they do believe that there's something that happens
to us once our bodies physically pass.
Speaker 3 (01:19:37):
Yes, they do.
Speaker 19 (01:19:38):
But a lot of what that is for each individual,
and it's very personal, kind of like we have that
personal belief really depends on whether you're a Buddhist, a
Taoist or are you are you still practicing Shinto, which
is the original religion of Japan.
Speaker 3 (01:19:51):
Yeah, different religions, different civilizations view this, view this differently.
What about the objects?
Speaker 7 (01:19:58):
What kinds of objects have been known to be haunted
in Japan?
Speaker 20 (01:20:05):
Well, there is there is a story where if you
there's a story where when things get lost, it's usually
a yokai running around. So practically anything can be an object.
Anything can be like alive, anything can be a yo kai.
(01:20:26):
You see, Like tiles, those could be yokai. Those could
be wondering around when they're lost. Yeah, I mean one sorry,
one thing is like a sandal that we talked about,
the bakaz it runs around.
Speaker 19 (01:20:44):
Yeah, you go, it's because it's because of the Shinto
beliefs that everything has a spirit, everything is related in
some way to the kami.
Speaker 7 (01:20:52):
So something that you can't see that's holding on to something,
but we don't see the hands and it's just moving,
which would appear like say a Poltergeist sort of action,
like what we might view it here.
Speaker 19 (01:21:08):
You mean for the sukimogami, the haunted object's ability to
to move these objects, but you don't actually see a body.
They are actually the actually the objects themselves are or spirits.
Speaker 7 (01:21:18):
So the objects themselves that they don't they don't need
the Uh.
Speaker 19 (01:21:23):
Yes, it is not it's not an outside spirit. It's
actually an object. So for instance, we have a haunted
tea kettle that is always producing hot water. We have
the bakazodi which is a haunted sandal, we have haunted lanterns.
And usually what happens is when an object reaches a
certain age, like as it becomes an antique, that is
(01:21:45):
when it develops it's uh, its spirit kind of wakes
up and so that kami that was dormant and that
object then becomes a sukimogami or a haunted object. So
it's not another entity moving the object, it's the object
moving itself.
Speaker 7 (01:22:01):
Thank you so much for sharing with us here at
the Oregon Ghost Conference and a Fantasia and run out
of Fairy.
Speaker 3 (01:22:06):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 7 (01:22:07):
We'll have more of our broadcast next time. Somewhere between
the paranormal and the abnormal.
Speaker 11 (01:22:12):
I'm Jeremy Scott.
Speaker 5 (01:22:50):
Would you believe.
Speaker 20 (01:22:52):
I not.
Speaker 4 (01:22:55):
Step into the song.
Speaker 5 (01:22:57):
Of the pastime known.
Speaker 6 (01:23:05):
Expiracies and cover to the pair red not a week?
Speaker 5 (01:23:10):
All right?
Speaker 7 (01:23:29):
From the Oregon Ghost Conference here in Seaside. I guess
this is the after show. This is the unadvertised part
of the program. I don't know how Clyde feels about that,
but but no, actually I would I would take that
as a you get to you get to be the
main event here Clyde lewis from ground zero with uh
(01:23:50):
with Clyde Lewis, Yeah, which is all over everywhere. We
have the microphone down low from the previous guest. Is
that gonna work out?
Speaker 10 (01:23:58):
You sign? How my signings? Okay?
Speaker 3 (01:24:00):
You sound fine, but it's just low.
Speaker 10 (01:24:01):
You're it's okay? All right? You good?
Speaker 21 (01:24:04):
I don't know how to work a microphone. What do
I do with it? I drop it?
Speaker 3 (01:24:10):
I learned a new word from you today.
Speaker 10 (01:24:11):
Psychopomp.
Speaker 3 (01:24:13):
What the heck is a psychopomp?
Speaker 21 (01:24:15):
They're they're the carriers of the dead, they carry you
to the other side. Psychopomp Yeah, because I wanted to
bring that word to the attention to people because it's
like I said in my presentation, I was talking with
somebody on the air who was like this person who
(01:24:36):
was very serious about their afterlife experience, and I said, so,
you were met with psychopomps And.
Speaker 10 (01:24:43):
She goes, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 21 (01:24:44):
I go, yeah, psychopomp you were met by a psychopomp.
No no, no no. So she calls Ron, my producer says,
what's wrong with Clyde. I've contributed to his show, I
do all kinds of things, and he's making fun of me,
saying that I was with a psychopomp.
Speaker 10 (01:24:57):
What the hell is the psychopo.
Speaker 3 (01:24:59):
Maybe thinking you're psycho punk or something. I don't I
don't know.
Speaker 21 (01:25:02):
It's just because well the first psycho and then pomp
you think of pompous, So you know, psychopompus means that
you're a pompous psychopath. I don't know, but that's that's
why I think she felt. But yeah, I've learned to
love that word psychopomp But I thought I would bring
it up today because I don't think many people know
(01:25:22):
the terminologies.
Speaker 7 (01:25:23):
I just thought you saw the light. I didn't know
somebody or something actually greeted you.
Speaker 21 (01:25:28):
Sometimes, well you look at the legends of a Nubis Cheiron,
the the the guy that runs the ferry, the ferryman.
You give him, he takes you to across the River Styx.
Speaker 10 (01:25:40):
He's one. Nubis is one.
Speaker 21 (01:25:43):
Sometimes people like, for example, the Crow, remember the comic
book The Crow. The Crow is a psychopomp because he
didn't die, but he helps people in that situation. He
was made through the whole is he was created through
the whole idea of suicide and dying. So yeah, he's
a psychopomp too. Crow and the family. You know, you
(01:26:05):
have family that sometimes meet you on the other side,
you know you had died, and then somebody's on the
other side waiting for you.
Speaker 10 (01:26:09):
Oh that's dad.
Speaker 21 (01:26:10):
Hey, he's a psychopop. He's not doing oji board duty today.
He's doing psycho pomp duty for me. Thank you. I
saw awesome, dad, Thank you. Yeah, he's the heavenly uber
driver or the lyft driver.
Speaker 7 (01:26:27):
Do you think they have a transportation service up in
wherever we go after we die?
Speaker 10 (01:26:32):
Bit better? Because I mean hell, I mean I want
to see you during visiting hours in hell.
Speaker 13 (01:26:36):
Oh likewise, you know, and we got to get back
and forth, you know, write letters, you know that kind
of thing, kind of Yeah, I want to see you
in Helton.
Speaker 21 (01:26:44):
No, I want to see you in Helton. Think of
all the people that will be there. Yeah, I think
of all the money, think of all the It's like,
you know, not very many people up there in heaven
except the Mormons. They think they're there alone.
Speaker 13 (01:26:55):
So and this is coming from two former Mormons. You
ever heard that before, right?
Speaker 9 (01:27:00):
No?
Speaker 21 (01:27:00):
Actually, So this guy goes up into heaven and he's
there and the Angel is giving him the tour, and
he's to go past this story. You see all these
people like yelling and screaming and celebrating, and he says,
my gosh, who's that? He says, that's the Baptist man.
They're up here having a good time. Go to the
next door and you have all these people drinking wine
and everything else. Well, who are they? Those are the Catholics.
(01:27:22):
So they're happy to be here too. And then the
angel goes they pass through another door. He says, who's that.
That's the Mormons. And they think that the only ones.
Speaker 7 (01:27:31):
Up here, all right, God, you always find such interesting
stuff to talk about on the ghost phenomenon. And there
has been some you know, science throughout the years that
has made what we talk about more credible parapsychology as
it's called.
Speaker 21 (01:27:49):
Yeah, yeah, I think one of the things that really
got me thinking was now that scientists are trying to
they're trying to find more ways to they come up
with something I don't know if they call it a soul,
but they call it something else, and it's like it's
(01:28:11):
like psychometry. It's another word. You can't remember the name
of it. But they try to come up with this
idea that everything has particles, and everything has meaning, and
everything fits together in the particle congruency and whatever. So
and then that gets you into things like superposition and
gets you into things like twin paradox universes and being
(01:28:31):
in two places at once and being everywhere everywhere, all
at once, and all these things that ghosts can do.
Speaker 4 (01:28:37):
Well.
Speaker 10 (01:28:37):
If a ghost can do it, so can you.
Speaker 21 (01:28:38):
Because if you're a particle in this big scheme of things,
you can be a particle of someone else's particles and
you can come together. And that's why people sometimes have relationships,
is because out of all the particles that you are
in the universe, your particle seems to gel with another particle.
When you think about relationships, you think about love.
Speaker 3 (01:28:55):
Is that what they mean by particle physics.
Speaker 10 (01:28:57):
Well, it's like like subtract.
Speaker 21 (01:29:00):
It's just the idea that if you were to see
us as a particle, if you see yourself as a particle,
see everybody in this room is a particle. Every particle
seems to find its match, and sometimes opposites attract. But
just the idea though, that if we look at ourselves
as particles in the big big thing, then we do
have spooky actions at a distance, because sometimes we feel
what other people feel and they're far away from us.
Sometimes it's like it's like you have that feeling that
(01:29:22):
you've known somebody all your life. Like I've known you,
Jeremy for a little while, but i feel like I've
known you for a long time, very long time before
i even met you. So I mean it's kind of like,
you know, we're brothers from different mothers, but in a
different way. And it's because of this these spooky actions
at a distance. In Einstein talked about saying that we're
all connected in a way, and that's why we're connected
to the afterlife or connected to it, inter dimensional beings.
(01:29:46):
We're connected to all those things because of that.
Speaker 7 (01:29:48):
So, having said that, orbs can also be an indication
that you have some sort of spirit in nearby.
Speaker 21 (01:29:54):
Yeah, because it takes you know, one orb to appear,
but several orbs to make an apparition. So I mean
it just like it takes several you know, molecules and
particles and protons, electrons and neutrons to make a human being,
and then then you have the same thing happen with
someone else and it just continues.
Speaker 10 (01:30:11):
It's a continuing thing.
Speaker 7 (01:30:13):
So when people are seeing these orbs and then experiencing
something that they may deem paranormal, say either seeing an
apparition or hearing a ghostly voice or something, there may
be something to that.
Speaker 21 (01:30:27):
Well sure, I mean, if if things can use, they
can use all. I mean, we're all light, really, I
mean everything's based on light. We see with light, we
experience things with light. Light has a sound. Light has
a frequency. So if all of a sudden the frequency
is change and you're able to see a certain type
of light, you'll be able to see a certain type
of spirit. So it's and it's not to say that
(01:30:49):
we don't have interloping and we don't have interlap overlap
where let's say, for example, when you look at a
pot of boiling water for example, okay, you see the
little bubbles royal in the water. Sometimes those bubbles roll
over each other and roll over each other and roll
over each other. That's how we are in our parallel universes.
Sometimes the existences blend with each other. And this is
(01:31:11):
where we get ghosts, that is where we get UFOs,
this is where we get you know, encounters with Bigfoot.
It's all because of the fact that there is another
second genesis, if you will. It was made at the
same time as our first genesis, and it's playing along
right next to us, and we just don't even know
it because we don't have the ability to see it.
But we do know that there's something more out there,
and we don't know if what we're doing in this
universe is affecting several other universes.
Speaker 7 (01:31:33):
So when this stuff manifests, it has the ability to
manipulate electronics, and that's why people are actually seeing this
stuff on their phones or getting text messages or emails
or even Facebook messages from people who are deceased.
Speaker 21 (01:31:48):
We're learning that we live in an electric universe, okay,
and we need we need to go back to Emmanuel
Villakowski and figure out what he was trying to say.
I believe because I mean, if Manuel Vilakowski was talking
about an electric universe and now they're saying everything is
going to be electric, that tells me something about the universe.
Speaker 10 (01:32:06):
It tells me.
Speaker 21 (01:32:07):
Something that you know, gravity may be magnetics more than gravity.
That you know, we're being held here because we have
Ferris in our blood, and Ferris is attracted to magnetics
and magnetics. We have a magnetic ball underneath this is
turning around. We have a magnetic ball above us is
keeping us on the planet. So I mean, it's all
about electromagnetics. It's all about particles and how they work
together and fissure together to make what we are.
Speaker 7 (01:32:30):
Question is the thing. Question is about Nikola Tesla. And
also where do EVPs come from? And I think that
is the spirit trying to communicate with us.
Speaker 21 (01:32:38):
Well, EVPs come from a number of things. They come
from background noise because of course ghosts don't have voices
or vocal cords. So what they have to do is
they have to transmit their thoughts on sounds. So you
hear like a rub and it sounds like something, or
you hear a wind passover and you hear something, or
you know, and that's the EVP. People could say, well,
(01:32:58):
it's autos paradoila is audiodolia. I don't know if they
call it audio doolia, but I'm just saying, you know,
because we're hearing things, And well, of course you are.
Speaker 10 (01:33:06):
But that's the point.
Speaker 21 (01:33:08):
If your mind can pick it up and you get
a message and it's loud and clear, why are you
questioning it?
Speaker 10 (01:33:12):
I mean, well, it's just no. No.
Speaker 21 (01:33:14):
It's like if you see an image that looks like
a face, and it's undoubtedly a face, why do you say, well,
it's paradoia. It's because you don't want to believe that
there's something outside of you. You don't want to believe
that there's something outside of the regular belief system, so
you immediately write it off as paradolia.
Speaker 10 (01:33:31):
You write it off of something that you're imagining.
Speaker 21 (01:33:33):
But if it does send it loud and clear, it's like, okay,
let's say, for example, if EDP doesn't exist. And let's
say I caught it a EVP of a ghost saying
the F word. Do you think I could play that
on the radio. No, of course not. Why because you
hear the word the F word being spoken by something.
But then you can say, I have the argument, Well, hey,
(01:33:55):
if EDP doesn't exist and this F word doesn't exist,
all right, So I mean so that means I can
play this. Because you don't think EVPs exists, it's just
paradolia or audiodolia or whatever you call it. So let's
play some audiodolia that is not there, but you heard it.
Speaker 10 (01:34:11):
See, it just makes any sense to me.
Speaker 3 (01:34:14):
Ghost boxes, Yes, how do those work?
Speaker 7 (01:34:17):
And is that actual deceased spirits coming through ghost boxes?
Speaker 10 (01:34:22):
Are there are another? Yeah?
Speaker 21 (01:34:25):
Tesla had one, Edison had one. I think ghost boxes
are a mixture of random and what we'd call taking
random stuff and putting it into order. So when you're
listening to a ghost box, if you're listening to the
skipping of frequencies that if words come together like that
(01:34:45):
in a sentence, then yeah, I mean you're picking up
on it, you're hearing the message. But that's if the
message is really there. You're not just imagining the message.
Some people hear Did you hear that? No, I just
heard a rain bird sound. But if you really hear
a sound, there is something talking. And I remember one
time we had an EVP that was coming over one
(01:35:05):
of those sounds and it was a number of things
were making the sentence and one of them was Ozzy
Osbourne singing crazy Train and that's gonna sound creepy. Yeah,
it was weird and I said, oh, that's Ozzy Osbourne.
I go, well, yeah, but it's I mean, it was
Ozzy and then something else after it. It was sounding
like a message. Uh, it's just a game, and you
(01:35:27):
know it can be built on nothing, but you know,
our brain's putting together random things or there could be
some reality to it. And the thing is if they're
sending messages that mean something to you, then it's and
then it means something to you. It's it's a it's
an asynchronicity, then is it not? If you if you
hear something that said, oh, by the way, this message
beings something to me. I was one time we used
(01:35:49):
to do a thing called the black cube, and that
was one of the greatest inventions we ever had.
Speaker 10 (01:35:54):
Too bad.
Speaker 21 (01:35:54):
We can't use it anymore because the guy that we
used it with basically what often did his own thing,
but we didn't want to rip off his intellectual property.
But that was one of the greatest times ever because
we used to go out. We do that at this
ghost conference, we do the black Cube. One time we
had a guy from Russia that was listening to the
Black Cube, but he wanted to call out to his mother,
(01:36:14):
and all of a sudden, the black Cubes start going,
you know, something like that, And I said, did you
hear Somebody says, yes, I heard my mother say I
love you in Russian. I said, are you sure? He goes, oh, yeah,
I heard it. And then some other guy was in
the audience was Russian. He says I heard it too,
And I'm going, well, who am I to questioned Russian.
I mean, it all sounds like Russian. Even death metal
(01:36:36):
sounds like Russian if you're not careful. But it was
just fascinating to me that people's brains can put these
things together and get meaning out of them, and regardless
of whether or not people say, well it could be anything,
well yeah, it could be anything. I mean, I mean, yeah,
that's the point it's something that people understand and interpret.
Its meaningful to them. Who am I to tell you
(01:36:57):
that it's not real? It's like I asked, some guy
complained about this picture that was sent to me by
Marshall Barnes. He was saying to me, s Oh, that
just looks like one more blob. The Clyde's trying to
get ratings for showing a Yeah, the picture I showed
And I wrote him back and I said, I said
some of the fact that says, yeah, we're investigating whether
or not you were conceived of a family reunion. That
(01:37:17):
was just me being an ass but anyway, and I
can be but what's that? Yeah, I give you that
way with a cousin relative humidity and all that. Okay,
where am I so?
Speaker 10 (01:37:30):
Anyway?
Speaker 21 (01:37:31):
But what pisses me off about that is that, you know,
people say, well, it's just a blob, and what Okay, Well,
if you think it's just a blob, then how is
it that a scientist who doesn't believe in ghosts, who
doesn't believe in any of this stuff say something was
in my laboratory, Clyde, I don't know what it was,
and here's a picture.
Speaker 7 (01:37:47):
Yeah, anybody can make that claim, but very few are
able to actually provide the evidence, which is what Marshall did.
Speaker 21 (01:37:52):
And then and then had to have Marshall say, don't
call it a ghost. Well, what else is it? Because
it's not a ghost. He signed to say it's not
a ghost. It was a non human intelligence. I'm going, huh,
the blob, I don't know, I don't know. But he
just didn't want it to be called a ghost. And
I said, why is that? It says I have a
hard time with this whole element of spirituality in God. Okay,
(01:38:12):
so you have a hard time with spirituality God, what
do you call it? Non human intelligence? So that's gonna
have to be the fall for everything if you don't
believe in God, and say, well, what are we dealing
with here? Non human intelligence? We're dealing with particles that
are coming together randomly to make something. I mean, what
are we but particles that came together randomly in our
mother's womb. One cell that's all took and we're like
a million cells and we're like all these synapses and
(01:38:34):
bones and whatever. A miracle of a God, a miracle
of the world. And people don't want to believe in miracles.
Like these particles can create sounds, or they can create
things from beings from some dimension or other dimension. I mean,
come on, it's not hard to think about.
Speaker 3 (01:38:48):
What does paranormal mean.
Speaker 7 (01:38:49):
It means something that is not normal normal right, or
in this case, it's a pair of normal. And thank
you so much Clyde for joining us here from the
Oregon Ghost Conference.
Speaker 3 (01:38:57):
Thank you, good night, God bless