Ep. #852: DEAD AIR 2025 Night 2

"Dead Air" returns with another chilling Halloween audio experience that keeps calling you back from the shadows year after year. Step inside, if you dare, and immerse yourself in true ghost stories, haunting encounters, and bone-chilling sounds that drift from beyond the grave. On night two, Jeremy welcomes several guests: Theresa Cheung explores why we are fascinated with ghost hunting; Leanna Renee Hieber unearths the gothic traditions surrounding spirits; Rob Gutro and Winn Brewer reveal the haunted past of Linville Manor in Maryland. Plus, short stories and original music. It's a ghostly journey that will stay with you long after the final echo fades and the lights go out.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Fine four three two one.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
You interrupt our program to bring you this important message.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
A confirmed attack is taking place against the United States.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Aliens from an unknown location have been reported in multiple states.

Speaker 4 (00:29):
We are controlling transmissions. There is another world that awaits,
far beyond what we can see and feel, a place
that's anything but ordinary.

Speaker 5 (00:40):
Would you believe I do not think?

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Step into the song?

Speaker 5 (00:48):
How the first time know.

Speaker 6 (00:52):
Aliens take cospiracies and cover.

Speaker 4 (00:59):
To the pair.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
Have not a week ago with Jeremy.

Speaker 4 (01:03):
Go east that night each year when the air waves
come alive. Welcome today today.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
I'm Jeremy Scott from the cold, dark depths of a
secret dungeon somewhere deep in the remote Pacific Northwest. This
is officially Halloween night, All Hallows Eve, and welcome to
the broadcast that this year only comes twice a year.
We definitely heard from those of you who heard Night
one of dead air. It resonated with several of you.

(01:45):
We heard from a few of you who agree with
me that, yeah, the toilet has to be the most
hunted of all places in the bathroom. That was certainly
a road that we ended up going down on the
pro last night. You never know where the stories may
head when you tune into the program that is somewhere

(02:07):
between the paranormal and the abnormal. We also got some
comments that it kind of felt like they were watching
or listening to a movie trailer at times. I think
that's a compliment. I'll take it as a compliment. And
you really enjoyed the music that we had to play

(02:28):
as well. So all in all, this being night two
of Dead Air, you can expect much more of the same.
We've got great guests who would be coming on. We've
got stories that are cute, up a couple of items
that I wanted to share with you before we kick
that all off. I've always wondered why we have this

(02:53):
fascination to investigate, or as some say, hunt ghosts. Hunt
is an interesting term because you usually eat what you hunt,
and I'm not sure how that would even taste if
you wrangled a ghost. Would you put it on the barbecue? See,

(03:16):
this is the type of stuff that we entertain on
the program because nobody else is going to talk about it,
and once you open up the conversation, you have to
finish it. As far as I'm concerned, and that can
include some of those uncomfortable moments, but getting a little
bit serious here. The practice of ghost tunding has evolved

(03:40):
from nineteenth century seances to a global cultural phenomenon. I mean,
you look back in the late eighteen hundreds, there was
a chemist or William Crooks, who believed in a fake
ghost that nearly ruined his career, yet like many others,

(04:00):
he continued to seek evidence of spirits. The movement originated
in eighteen forty eight, when the Fox Sisters of New
York claimed to communicate with the dead through knocking sounds.
Their success sparked the rise of spiritualism, which spread across
the US, UK, France and Australia, fueled by widespread grief

(04:25):
after American Civil War and World War One. While mediums
gained fame and fortune, skeptics, especially magicians like Harry Houdini,
exposed fraud, arguing that spiritualist deceived the grieving. Nonetheless, ghost
hunting persisted and has evolved with technology, whether good or bad.

(04:49):
In the twentieth century, researchers such as Harry Price popularized
it through books and the media, and today ghost hunting
thrives on YouTube, TikTok and social media, of course, where
amateurs use devices such as EMF detectors and sound recorders
to capture quote scientific evidence. According to modern researchers, the

(05:11):
enduring appeal of ghost hunting lies not improving this supernatural
but in its social and emotional value, helping people connect
with others, confront mortality, and explore history. So sometimes when
we gather among our ghost friends, it's not necessarily because
we are going to find a goat ghost or we

(05:33):
even believe one is present, But it's more of a
social thing. I've heard of people going to sporting events
and they could care less about the athletes and the
sport they're They're just there to drink and socialize. Have
you seen those people? I mean, I don't condone violence,
but you want to hit them in the back of
the head. So you're at a sporting event, can you

(05:55):
can you watch the game and if you're not interested,
like go behind and like where the people who are
not interested in where they hang out and talk. But like,
don't ruin it for us. Never had one of those experiences,
By the way, since I mentioned hunting, I mean, people

(06:18):
have shot at a ghost or what they perceive to
be a ghost a time or two. One a recent
case out of Connecticut, where a man faced multiple criminal
charges back in twenty eighteen after allegedly firing gunshots inside

(06:38):
his home and what he later claimed was a ghost.
He reported a break in. Police determined he had fired
two shots into his own wall. The ment old officers
he believed the intruder was a spirit. This wasn't the
first time, though another report seven years earlier was investigated.

(06:59):
Apparently he has had multiple run ins with these spirits
and has felt compelled to fire off a weapon. Generally
not a good idea, especially if you can't physically see
your target. Generally, that's good advice. Don't just shoot into
the wind. Have you ever wondered that whether ghosts have

(07:21):
a shelf life? Think about that. It's a fascinating thought.
I've wondered about it as well, like do they die out?
A new study suggests that ghosts may be dying out.
Researchers examined one hundred historically haunted locations with long records
of ghost sightings and found a significant decline in recent reports.

(07:44):
The few spirits that still appeared were said to have
been active for less than one hundred years. The study
concluded that ghosts appear to have a limited life span,
possibly due to the second law of thermodynamics, which states
that energy just versus over time, hence why spectral energies

(08:05):
may run out of energy spectral entities. That is, as
the saying goes, I'm sure you've heard it, you only
die twice. Well, unless you're a cat, and then you
get nine lives. Speaking of the cat, since the cat

(08:27):
came up during the program last night, one of the
guests was worried that her cat was making too much
of an appearance. And you'll be amazed how much the
microphones will muffle these days. I had mentioned something about
our cats and then went into the bedroom where my

(08:49):
wife was sleeping during a commercial break, and I had
found her with candles blazing, and of course she is asleep,
and I had already told the audience make sure you
blow out the candles. Well, she told me that she
had the candles going because of the cats. Maybe we

(09:14):
can get her in here to explain this all. You know,
there is that ominous thing with cats and Halloween. As
long as we can keep it out of the bathroom,
no body talk tonight, I think we'll be on par
for success. Dead air night two into the pair of normal.

(09:36):
I'm Jeremy scount.

Speaker 5 (09:55):
Into the pair of par dead.

Speaker 3 (10:25):
There it is Halloween night. It is the night that
I look forward to each and every year when it
feels also right to be talking about the paranormal, about ghosts,
about haunted locations. I've had this book actually sitting on
my desk for about a year now, Haunted World one

(10:47):
hundred Ghostly Places and Encounters, and we've got its author
with us here. Teresa Chung has been researching and writing
about spirituality, dreams, and the paranormal for twenty five years.
She works closely with scientists studying consciousness and has a
degree from King's College, Cambridge and Theology and English. And

(11:09):
she joins us from the other side of the world
where it would be early in the morning, so we
appreciate her being with us. Hello, Teresa, welcome.

Speaker 7 (11:18):
I love it that we're sharing this liminal space when
the boundaries between reality and the dream world blur. It's
lovely and uk us, I love this. Thank you for
the opportunity to talk to you. I appreciate it. This
allows Eve.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
Yeah, and I appreciate it. I really enjoyed what we
had to say there. You write about some really really
fascinating locations. In fact, one hundred and one ghostly places.
I mean these have to be just a fraction. There
have to be a thousands, maybe tens of thousands, hundreds

(11:55):
of thousands, millions of places all around the world that
have story. Is kind of like these, right, Yeah.

Speaker 7 (12:03):
The hardest thing was this book was to choose the locations,
the places, the people, because as if you read the book,
actually it kind of the momentum builds without giving away
plot spoilers, here to the conclusion that everyone and everything
is haunted. We are haunted by memories, and locations are

(12:26):
haunted by the energies of the thoughts and the feelings
and the actions of the people that lived, worked and
died there.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
Haunted by memories. What do you mean by that?

Speaker 7 (12:39):
Well, they stay with us, They stay alive with us,
don't they. I mean, every person who has ever lived
has memories, ghosts from the past. You know, especially this
time of year, as we're going towards the holiday season
and we start thinking of the ghost of Christmas past,
Christmas present and yet to come. We are all you know,
we all have those ghosts us all the time, you know,

(13:02):
our past experiences, our present energies, whatever we're connecting to
in the present and what we're attracting in the present,
and also the potential future that's always waiting for us
to look at it and notice it and either follow
it or course correct in another direction. We're all capable
of mental time travel and slipping through time.

Speaker 8 (13:25):
We are, we just.

Speaker 7 (13:26):
Lack belief in it. And I hope the book I
wrote Haunted well because I wanted to try. Actually, although
it's you know, the publisher's market, it is something like scary,
But to take away the fear of it and just
say hauntings, ghosts, these experiences we can't explain. They are
part of the human experience. We have all had, these

(13:51):
unexplained encounters, these synchronicities, these moments when we feel maybe
something staring at us, or we sent something we can't explain.
Perhaps we've been lucky enough to have an afterlife sign
or a precognitive dream. But you stop anyone and almost
all of them will say that they have a memory
of something they couldn't explain. It frustrates me in the

(14:13):
modern world that we're taught to dismiss that and say
random chance, coincidence, et cetera.

Speaker 8 (14:21):
Et cetera. But it is part being mysterious. Mystery is
part of the human condition, and I actually love it.

Speaker 7 (14:28):
You know, shows you like yours are slowly but surely
pushing people into this awareness that we are spiritual beings
having a human experience and not human beings having spiritual experiences.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
Right Anderson, you were actually born into a family of spiritualists.
And I was talking about spiritualists earlier. Basically the thought,
why are we interested in if we're going to call
it hunting, why are we interested in hunting ghosts?

Speaker 9 (14:57):
This is interesting, It's fascinating, isn't it. It's the great unknown.

Speaker 7 (15:04):
I mean, you look at the big movie franchises and
you know, things that storm the world with interest, and
everybody watches they always have a paranormal theme, don't they.
We're close to Halloween and I believe the final season
of Stranger Things is going to drop, perhaps the most
watched program.

Speaker 3 (15:22):
That's what I'm doing, as soon as we had done
with the program tonight.

Speaker 9 (15:28):
Have you seen it the first trailers?

Speaker 7 (15:31):
But what I'm saying is, you know, if we are
so called rational beings, why is that number one? Why
do we all when we're watching it we feel something familiar,
and it's that part of it. We are all capable
of psychic abilities. We are all capable of connecting to
the other side. We are all capable of being pre

(15:54):
cognitive and intuitive, but what we lack is belief in it,
because we've conditioned to just think we've got.

Speaker 8 (16:01):
To fear these abilities.

Speaker 7 (16:03):
I actually have come to believe in all my research,
and you're right, I've done decades of it. I've written
many books, worked with scientists, neuroscientists, psychologists, interviewed countless medium psychics,
and the one thing that's successful psychics and medium to
have in common is.

Speaker 8 (16:21):
They believe they are psychic. They believe they are medianistic.

Speaker 7 (16:26):
And even if they get it wrong, they say, have
a hunch and it doesn't play out, it doesn't phase
them because they just think, like an experiment, I'm learning.
I just learned from that it's fine tuning my innate
psychic ability. They have this remarkable belief in their abilities,
and that's where I think actually psychic development could start

(16:47):
with actually working on first of all, self awareness, understanding
who you are from the inside out. Hopefully that will
move to a bit more compassion for yourself and then
when you have self understanding and self their awareness, they
tend to boost your self esteem and your self belief.

Speaker 8 (17:06):
And when you have self belief, I mean this.

Speaker 7 (17:08):
Is basic manifesting, that's when you're more likely to have
a happy and successful life.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
So, Teresa, why do you think that places are haunted?
And there may be a variety of reasons for that.

Speaker 7 (17:21):
Well, there are a variety of reasons because the power
of suggestion is strong, and especially the places that are
known to be haunted. Typically there's some tragic event has
happened that it's seeped in history and all the beliefs,
and that's why they have a reputation for haunting. And

(17:46):
when you're told somewhere's haunting, I've told you again about
the power of belief, how our perception creates our reality.
Science is moving towards proving this when you look at
the science of consciousness. Now, how important are a set
is If you believe somewhere is haunted, you're far more
likely to get that cold shiver down your spine or

(18:07):
to sense something. What I'm more interested actually, although there
are famous haunted locations in haunted world, I put them
there because what actually is more interesting than the hauntings. Actually,
when you go to these places is the history of
the place. You know, you think the hauntings are the
interesting thing, but actually it's the rich history these places

(18:29):
have that are often far more interested that somebody believed
they saw something in the middle of the night if you.

Speaker 8 (18:35):
Look at it. But what these places have in common,
as I said.

Speaker 7 (18:39):
Is a really rich history, and that leads to the
power of suggestions. So you're far more likely to think
you've seen or experienced something. But what I'm more interested
in is where a place hasn't got that association and
something out of this world happens. That's why I start

(19:01):
the number one place. Number one haunting is he Throw Airport.
Because most of us think of castles and cemeteries, don't we,
and ancient hotels. So I put a busy, bustling airport
as number one, just to challenge our perceptions about wanted locations.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
Okay, we got to pause here because we're at a break.
But he Throw Airport is haunted. Is that what I'm understanding?

Speaker 8 (19:26):
Yeah, it's number one.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
Well, let's pause and we'll have time to pick that
back up when we continue. Teresa Chung is my guest
tonight and her website in case you want to look
her up as we head to the break. Here is
Teresa Chung dot com and Chung is with an E
C H e U n G. All the links are
up at peribormal radio dot com, including to her book
Haunted World one hundred Ghostly Places and Encounters. We're here

(19:51):
on dead Air. I'm Jeremy Scott into the pair of Normal.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
Pair Abnormal News. I'm George Henry. Three I Atlas, the
third known object to visit Us that was formed in
another star system, has completed its trip behind the Sun.
Astronomers report the interstellar object underwent a solar conjunction, passing
behind our Sun relative to Earth, and then reached Perihelium,

(20:30):
its closest point to the Sun. This week, three I
Antlas appeared brighter than scientists expected. Tracking systems confirm that
its orbit remains unchanged, and as predicted, it is currently
inside the orbit of Mars and moving further away from
the Sun each day. Soon, three iye Atlas will appear
in the pre dawn sky near Venus as it moves

(20:52):
within one hundred and sixty seven million miles of Earth.
In December, here pairubnormal news every hour on it to
the pair of normal.

Speaker 10 (21:19):
Expression dead hair.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
Yeah, I think that I tend to agree that there
are places all over that are haunted that have this
residual energy. Right, it could be someone died or just
something tragic took place there and the energy is lingering.
One of those places I understand is the Heathrow Airport.

(22:02):
Our guest tonight, di Teresa Chung, who is from that
side of the world, joining us here on our Dead
Air Halloween Night broadcast. What did you uncover about the airport?

Speaker 9 (22:14):
I love that you say I'm from the other side.
I'm here in spirit.

Speaker 8 (22:24):
I love that.

Speaker 7 (22:25):
Yeah, you're right, Rizard, you're hauntings where you know, it's
believed that the energy of some event in the past
has got trapped and it's kind of playing on the loop. Now,
there are paranormal parapsychologists paranormal experts who say that's not
strictly speaking a haunting because it's kind of replaying something
from the past.

Speaker 8 (22:46):
Because a marker of a Rizid you're haunting is.

Speaker 7 (22:49):
That the whatever is seen or experienced, it doesn't interact
with the living. It's just it's like it's not aware
of the living around it. But you don't you think
that's just as fascinating that something, some energy could be
trapped and playing on a loop. I think that's just
as fascinating as the possibility it could be a.

Speaker 8 (23:08):
Ghost or a spirit.

Speaker 7 (23:10):
I don't know why it should be considered any lesser.
For me, it's just as interesting. Similarly, cases of poltergeists,
for example, a lot of people say, oh, it's unconscious
energy of the the host, you know, the the agent.
It's it's the young girl or boy or adolescent. And
but you know it's they're they're they're creating all these events.

(23:30):
You know, the pictures fall off the wall, things move
because of their energy. But again, isn't Tekanese is just
as fascinating as the possibility of ghosts. But yeah, to
go back to a question about Heathrow Airport, is I
did that because this book, as I said, is really
trying to create a shift in our understanding of hauntings

(23:53):
and ghosts. Number one, to bring in the mystery and
more of the sense of mystery and wander that these
things happened, in the hope that it would remove our
fear of the dark and let us know that actually
the living are far more scary than for dead. But
I started with a place like Hethrow Airports. I was thinking,
you know, you've got to come in really strong with

(24:15):
your first one, otherwise people aren't going to stay with you.
So I wanted to challenge perceptions with that, because you
would not think that a busy airport, which is like
literally never sleeps, always bright lights, that there could be
the possibility of ghosts. But actually there are many. If
you talk to the staff there, and I live fairly
close here in Windsor too, Heathrow Airport many of the

(24:35):
staff believe it's haunted by an ancient highwayman. There's a
haunted dog that has been seen there, and a bewildered
a headless man in a suit.

Speaker 8 (24:48):
With a briefcase.

Speaker 7 (24:49):
There was a crash in the nineteen sixties, I believe,
which killed all on board, but some ghosts. Some person
was seen wandering away trying to find their loved ones,
and it was actually found that.

Speaker 8 (25:03):
Their body was still in the crushed plane. So there
is a lot.

Speaker 7 (25:10):
Of legend surrounding Heathrow Airport and the surrounding areas as well, because.

Speaker 8 (25:17):
Of you know, the ancient Roman findings.

Speaker 7 (25:21):
That have been found around there, so I wanted to
start with that and to really you know, surprise people
and hopefully keep them hooked with the rest of the book.

Speaker 3 (25:31):
Do you actually break hauntings down into four categories? What
are those?

Speaker 5 (25:36):
Again?

Speaker 7 (25:36):
This is controversial, and I know in the paranormal community
everybody has their opinions, and this is just my opinion.
I did it according to residual, which we've already discussed, Poltergeist,
which I know your listeners will be very familiar with,
which is when you know, strange things happen in a
house and it's all clustered around one person. The third category,
which I'm actually very intrigued by, is the inhuman when

(25:59):
objects become haunted, you know, you know, if you think
of movies like the Robert Dole or the Annabelle Dole
or or or it's believed to be a demonic entity,
something that's never lived on this earth is imposing its
energy or its will allegedly, but again, there could be

(26:21):
other explanations for this, that it's the kind of a
mixture of the power of suggestion and the latent psychic
abilities of the person's it's impacted. So again there's a
big question mark there. But the fourth category is the
one where the book builds up to, which is the
most exciting for me, and it's the most rare. Actually,
it's intelligent hauntings where it really really looks like the

(26:43):
ghost or spirit is initiating the contact and wanting to
impart a message and to get the attention of the living.
Living Often in these cases aren't always seeking it out
unless they go to visit a professional medium or someone
who's trained in this and is bringing proof of survival,
because obviously mediumship goes in that final intelligent haunting categories

(27:06):
when a medium is able to randomly we've never met
someone before, suddenly provide proof of an afterlife to that
person personally to that person. But also you know hauntings
where where you know a ghost or a vision or
a dream vision of a departed love one has imparted

(27:28):
a message, told the dreamer something that they could not
possibly know. It, had no idea what was happening, and
then they go away and find out that actually the
dream had revealed something that was true. I think that's
the future of paranormal research. These very rare cases when

(27:48):
it looks like the ghost is initiating the contact. And
I'm really delighted to say that. You know that there
are many visionary scientists parapsychologists research this now, and of
course near death experiences fall into that category. Deathbed visions,
dreams of the departed. I find that's the area that

(28:13):
I'm most drawn to. I've written books about all these
topics as well, near death experiences, after life signs, but
I feel that's that's the most exciting, when a spontaneous
synchronicity or sign or vision or dream or precognition happens,
and it gives that person the absolute, rock solid belief

(28:35):
that there's more to this life than meets the eye.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
All right, yes or no? Do ghosts die out?

Speaker 7 (28:42):
They fade from memory? I mean if we stop thinking
of them. They say people die twice, don't they once?
Physically we have nine lives. But I don't think cats or.

Speaker 8 (28:53):
Dogs should ever die. I think that one floor with them,
they should live forever.

Speaker 7 (28:58):
They are Earth angels, in my opinion, sent to help
and heal us their happiness with a tale, I think.
But I digress. Yeah, it's about the memories, isn't it.
And I think it's the same with departed loved ones.
You can keep that relationship going in spirit. Death ends
a life, not a relationship. I never tire of saying that,

(29:20):
And you can continue that relationship in spirit, keep that
departed loved one alive within your dreams, within your memories,
and every time you think of them with feelings of
love and joy.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
All right, Teresa, tell us about your website and the
other books that you have. Really enjoyed our conversation tonight, We'll.

Speaker 7 (29:36):
Prepare yourself because it will be like one of these
dreams when you're literally drowning in dark water. If you
look at my website, I'm a serious I'm not a
serial killer. I'm a serial author. I have been doing
this for over forty years. And as I said, I
was born into a family of traveling psychics and spiritualists,
and I researched it at Cambridge University Religion and Theology,
and then I've literally written about one hundred books in

(29:57):
this area, some more well known than others. I'm best
known for The Dream Dictionary eight Z, which was published
in two thousand and six by Half of Collins and
is still being reissued. But my more recent titles is
of course, is Haunted World, which I'm very grateful that
you've given a platform to today where I again try
to eat it. With all of my latest books, I'm
really trying to say something different and bring a new

(30:20):
perspective to the study of the paranormal, and I hope
I did that with Haunted World. I also wrote a
book about the Akashik Records this year, many many other topics,
and I've just written my debut novel, Nightborn, which I'm
blown away by the reviews on Goodreads that people are
saying it's the most unusual book and it really messes

(30:42):
with their brain, which is deliberate because I wanted to
write a thriller about dream hacking. Would you know if
your dreams were hacked? But also to give people a
crash course in dream decoding, because a lot of people
these days don't read nonfiction books from cover to cover,
but they might lose themselves in a great story. So
I hope Nightbourne ticks those boxes.

Speaker 11 (31:02):
Well.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
Sounds like you have much material. Maybe we should have
you back another time.

Speaker 8 (31:07):
I'd be honored.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
Thank you so much, Teresa Chunga. We appreciate you coming
on Dead Air. It's the show that comes twice a
year this year and it is Halloween Night. I'm Jeremy Scott.
Somewhere between the paranormal and the abnormal.

Speaker 5 (31:39):
Into the para normal, parhare.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
Into the pair of normals. Halloween broadcast continues. I'm Jeremy Scott.
Halloween Night twenty twenty five. Dead Air is what we
call it. We've been doing this since twenty twenty a
two night extravaganza. This year. We're known for our short
stories which we have compiled from the Internet and from

(32:38):
a reports that have been sent into us as well
by listeners, and we have a couple of each of
those we're going to be sharing throughout the program tonight,
and of course to do this we have special music,
in this case a campfire sounds for this Halloween Night

(32:59):
as we venture to story land, to the state of Indiana,
where the Willard Library in Evansville is known for more
than just good books. They say it is a resident
spirit known as the Gray Lady. Citings that the historic
Victorian Gothic building began in the nineteen thirties on a

(33:21):
maintenance worker reported encountering a woman in a gray shawl
who vanished before his eyes. Some believe she may be
the daughter of the library's founder. Over the year, staff
and visitors have reported cold spots, the scent of perfume,
strange noises, objects moving on their own, and the feeling

(33:43):
of being touched well. Recently, security cameras captured a locked
door mysteriously open and then shut. Staff confirmed it had
been locked before and after, leaving no clear explanation. From Zimbabwe,

(34:06):
a bus parked for months in the Chitsnguaza area has
become the center of claims of paranormal activity. Residents say
the bus comes alive at exactly six am and six pm,
when its headlights mysteriously switch on without anyone inside. Whenness

(34:27):
his report hearing music, seeing ghostly passengers, and even a
conductor calling for writers. Some believe the bus is haunted
by its former owner, who died after being run over
while repairing it. Many locals are convinced the spirit of
the dead still lingers in the bus. In Ecuador, a

(34:49):
lawmaker claims the nation's capital in I believe It's Quitto,
is haunted. A photo taken inside the National Assembly shows
a janitor at work, and behind him is the unmistakable
face of a pale figure peering out video also shows
a shows a dark shadow gliding down the halls and

(35:10):
through windows. Staff told the lawmaker it was the ghost
of a girl who was said to wander the fifth
floor and leave behind a strange scent whenever she appears.
On this Halloween night, friends, we have a special greeting
from my friend Darren Marlar.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
I'm Darren Marler from Weird Darkness and you're listening to
dead Air on into the Pair of Normal with Jeremy Scott.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
I'm met her in the park.

Speaker 5 (35:52):
Autumn moon it night.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
Without a scene word anew a.

Speaker 5 (36:01):
Love was right.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
I felt her heart breath cat near when she nibbled
on my ear. There A saw her face come into
the lights. She's my warewolf girlfriend. It was love at

(36:29):
first bite. She's my ware wolf girlfriend. She's on a
dangerous sad night. She's still a facts to me even
though she.

Speaker 4 (36:47):
Has like care droppy.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
My werewolf girlfriend.

Speaker 5 (36:57):
And me.

Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah, that's great, all right. That's a Darren Marler from
Weird Darkness met there at the Oregon Ghost Conference quite
a few years and of course he supports them with
their conference every year, and we always support him. It's
got a great voice as well. Yeah, not too shabby

(37:19):
my werewolf girl friend. And we've got more original music
coming up on the program tonight, and stories as well,
submitted from members of the audience. If you remember Ellie's
story from last night, very touching, and this one also
very very tragic. It's from Rebecca, a mother in Utah,

(37:46):
who emailed this in actually just last night after hearing
the program. It started one night after I tucked my
son Owen into bed. He was four years old. Then
I kissed his forehead, turned off the land, and as
I reached the doorway, he said softly, Mommy, the woman

(38:06):
in my room doesn't like it when you turn off
the light. I stopped cold. The woman. I asked what woman.
He pointed toward the corner by the closet, the woman
who sings. I told myself he was imagining things. Kids
his age do that, but the way he said it

(38:27):
made me uneasy. And the next morning, over breakfast, I
asked him about the woman. He looked up from his
cereal and said, she comes when it's dark. She has
a pretty dress. She says she's waiting for her boy.
I tried to laugh it off, but my stomach turned.
We had bought this house only a few months earlier,

(38:48):
an old Victorian on the edge of town. I'd always
found it charming, the creaky floors, the stained glass windows,
but now every sound seemed heavier, like the house was
holding its breath. Around midnight, I woke up to a

(39:11):
faint melody drifting through the baby monitor, A lullaby, A
woman's voice, sweet, low, and unmistakably real. I ran to
his room. I swear for a moment I smelled lavender,
and the air felt colder near the closet. That same

(39:34):
closet the next morning, when I asked, oh, what about it,
he said, her name is Margaret. She used to have
a little boy who got lost. She's still looking for him.
I wanted to believe she was just a figment of
his imagination, that the singing I'd heard had some rational explanation.

(39:56):
But sometimes late at night, when the house is quiet,
the wind moves through the hallways, I catch the faintest
trace of lavender again, And every once in a while
I'll hear a soft hum, like a lullaby, coming from
behind Owen's old closet door, where no one should be singing.

(40:20):
That's all it is, a dead air. Let me see
if I can bring in the missus. This may not
make for very good radio, or it may make for
very good radio. Not saying her coming on the air
wouldn't be good radio, but me leaving the studio, going
away from the microphone and calling her in here because

(40:43):
she's apparently not looking at her text and I'd like
her to come in and to join us. So just
one second, if you don't mind, hey man, come.

Speaker 12 (40:53):
In here, all right.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
Yeah, So needs you to make a pledge to the
audience right here now that you will never try to
light this place on fire again while I'm doing a
live radio broadcast.

Speaker 11 (41:13):
For one, I didn't try to burn down okay, so,
but there were some unsafe practices that I pledge never.

Speaker 8 (41:25):
To do again.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
And is there an explanation that you have for for
why you did what you did?

Speaker 11 (41:33):
Yeah, the candles keep the cats from trying to jump
up and get it into the closet.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
Okay, So you're gonna blame it on the cats, that's
what we're going with.

Speaker 11 (41:46):
No, but that's why I put the candles and let
them there.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
Yes, all right, So she's made a pledge you've heard
it right here on the show that she is never
going to try to burn down the house while we're
live on the air doing the broadcast anymore are good advice?
Had she been listening to the program when we encourage
people to put their candles out before they actually went
to sleep, maybe that would.

Speaker 12 (42:08):
Not have happened.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
All right, more to come on this Uh what is
it hallowey knight? Yeah, it's Halloween night.

Speaker 4 (42:15):
All right, we'll hear that.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
Mist with Joe Live.

Speaker 4 (42:19):
Listen to it anytime.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
Subscribe to a free pod desk at Pairupnormal Radio dot com.

Speaker 5 (42:28):
Jay Air.

Speaker 13 (42:33):
Fuel here the Wizard of Shield and the Chill because
on Halloween the veil the stid of the day. Watching it,
dare to listen, get you into the pair of normal,
where there terrifying becomes real.

Speaker 6 (42:51):
There's a parallel universe, separation were realogy.

Speaker 5 (43:05):
Over the let the truth it's all.

Speaker 6 (43:10):
Hell, into the pa, into the parent, into the para.

Speaker 4 (43:30):
The dead come alive, into the pair abnormal Dead Air.

Speaker 3 (43:47):
It is a Halloween night, and always it takes on
a new ambiance when we do this program on the
Halloween night. Dead Air continues somewhere between the paranormal and
the abnormal. I am Jeremy Scott, well. Welcome. Next to
the program Leanna Renee Heber, who is an author and
paranormal history expert. After earning a BFA in theater performance

(44:12):
and a focused study in the Victorian era, she spent
many years in the professional regional theater circuit skills that
server well as a speaker and ghost tour guide for
Burrows of the Dead in New York City. She's also
the co author of America's Most Gothic Haunted History, Stranger
Than Fiction. Leanna, welcome to the program.

Speaker 14 (44:34):
Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here.
Happy Halloween.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
Happy Halloween to you. Do you dress up or are
you buying past that phase?

Speaker 12 (44:43):
No?

Speaker 15 (44:43):
I mean I always try to have a specific outfit
for Halloween that is different from my usual all black
goth wardrobe.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
I am okay proud god.

Speaker 15 (44:54):
So usually I'll be in like some sort of historic
white gown as something very different, lease something from film.
So I did Galadriel a couple of years ago. Last year,
I did Edith Pushing from Crimson Peak. This year I'll
do Anna from Nasfaratu, so I'll publish that on my Instagram.
But I always have to prep that in advance because

(45:15):
when you are a career spooky person like me. You
are working on Halloween as I will be. I will
be giving a talk in a haunted manner in Upstate
New York discussing women's involvement in the spiritualist movement. So
I will be hard at work. So I already have
everything pre prepped ahead of Halloween.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
All right, So why the fascination with the Gothic side
of things? And tell us a bit about the origins,
I guess to get us started.

Speaker 15 (45:41):
Yeah, So, I mean, I've been interested in Gothic literature
since I first fell in love with Edgar Allan Poe
when I was a child, and Egar Allen Poe is
a focus for a lot of our work at Burrows
of the Dead the Ghost to a company I work with,
because Egar all and Poe wrote some of his most
famous peace while living in New York City, and we

(46:02):
walk people passed on our Gretitch Village sites. We walked
people past where he wrote Cascaba Mantiado, where he read
The Raven aloud for the first time, and then on
our Upper West Side tour, which is new as of
this year, we walk by the place, the farmhouse, the
land on Riverside Park, where he wrote his most famous
poem in the Raven so as as a New Yorker,

(46:26):
the tie to Poe is really palpable, and so he's
kind of our guiding light with America's most Gothic. And
how the book came about is because when I was
working as a ghost tour guide several years ago.

Speaker 14 (46:38):
I've been working for Birds the.

Speaker 15 (46:39):
Dead for over ten years now and I've written. At
that point, i'd written about fourteen fiction novels, and an
editor who's familiar with my fiction came on one of
my ghost tours and said, you know, Leanna, I love
your fiction, but I love your passion for nonfiction and
trying to really connect the te truth of history to

(47:01):
who were these people, their stories, their contexts, and really
trying to bring to life the dead in a way
that made it more palpable and also what did the
dead have to say to the living and make it
more of a conversation in how we're doing the storytelling.
And that's part of Burghs the Dead's mission too. So
founded by Andrea James, who is my co author. When

(47:23):
this editor said, hey, what do you think about a
nonfiction Andrea had just done an all women's ghost tour
where it was just women ghosts, and it had been
really popularized in terms of it was a very popular
tour for the company, and so she thought, well, what
what if we put an angle on this where it's

(47:44):
just women's stories. And that's what became our first book,
which was a Haunted History of Invisible Women, True Stories
of America's Ghosts, just focusing on women. How do we
talk about women alive and dead? The book did very
well for Kensington. We were very thrilled. So Kensington was
asking for a follow up, and in our proposal package,
there was a whole section of our stories that we

(48:04):
wanted to continue with the themes that we had started
with about how do we frame these ghost stories, and
a whole section of it was actually gothic tropes that
were reaffirming themselves into some of these real life stories.
So ghost stories become very archetypal. There's things that you.

Speaker 14 (48:23):
Might expect to see.

Speaker 15 (48:25):
You're going to have this chilling atmosphere, You're going to
have sort of setting as character where you're not quite
sure how to trust your senses, and all of those
things and power dynamics and women in peril and all
of the stuff that's really inherent in Gothic literature plays
out in a lot of interesting ghost lore in this nation.
So we addressed some of these real moments in history

(48:48):
and real haunted locations around the country that really spoke
to us. We just chose the ones that just really
cried out to us. And that's how America's most Gothic
came about. And we start every section with a quote
of Poe because he really is kind of the framework
for what does Gothic literature mean, which was originally a
European concept, what does that mean in this country?

Speaker 3 (49:10):
Right? And so this dates back to what the Industrial Revolution.

Speaker 15 (49:16):
The very first Gothic novel was written by Horace Walpole,
who was an actual member of Parliament, and that was
back in seventeen sixty four at a time of great
upheaval in Europe, and it was pre Industrial Revolution, but
it was, but the Industrial Revolution was certainly on the horizon.
And how it equates to a lot of American Gothic

(49:36):
literature is definitely post industrialization. But it is no coincidence
that the timing and the timeframe of Horace Walpole right
in the Castle of Toronto is also when the Transatlantic
slave trade was going.

Speaker 14 (49:50):
So you have these dark.

Speaker 15 (49:53):
And violent historical things that are happening globally that are
also informing a lo lot of again the power dynamics
and who has rights and who doesn't, and how are
this the historic sins and violences and injustices coming to
bear on the present. And that was very much in

(50:14):
the minds of people who were abolitionists, who are fighting
against slavery, who were trying to look at how can
we be a more kind and equitable country, not just
in England, over here as well. So it's the Gothic
really is a dialogue about power, power dynamics. And yeah,
there's some really interesting, beautiful, immersive vibes in it, yes,

(50:37):
but it's not just vibes. It really does have to
do with power at its core, who's wielding it, who's
telling the narrative and why.

Speaker 3 (50:43):
And then it kind of expanded what during the Victorian era.

Speaker 15 (50:48):
The Victorian era is really when we get the Gothics
that we love to talk about today. You know, Poe
is writing his stories right in the center, right in
that the eighteen forties, right, and he died in eighteen
forty nine. Just the same year that spiritualism gets its
kickoff and people become obsessed with parlor seances. The interest
in the paranormal was sort of hypercharged in the nineteenth

(51:11):
century because you had a lot of people who were
interested in industrial things like the advent of electricity. By
the time we get to Edison's dynamos down on Pearl
Street in eighteen eighty, but they're also trying to think, well,
what can we measure ghosts? Can we record them? Alexander
Graham Bell, Thomas Edison, they were interested in the idea

(51:32):
of recording the paranormal, you know, you know, pre evp stuff.
I feel like there's a lot of pseudosciences and sciences
that were all entwining the American Society for Psychical Research,
which was founded in New York City. They were interested
in trying to discover what are we talking about in
terms of a ghost floor and its psychological ramification.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
Sure we get a pause, We'll continue our conversation with
Leanna Renee heber Coatha of America's most Gothic Haunted History,
Stranger than Fiction and Burrows of the Dead. I'm Jeremy Scott.
Somewhere between the paranormal and the abnormal on Halloween Night,
Dead Air.

Speaker 5 (52:28):
To the Dead Air.

Speaker 3 (52:56):
I'm Jeremy Scott's on Halloween Night, it's our annual tradition
that we gathered to tell primarily ghost stories exporting though
America's most Gothic with the co author America's Most Gothic
Caught it history stranger than fiction. It does seem like

(53:18):
there is some were there are Gothic ghosts. From what
I'm understanding, Leanna.

Speaker 15 (53:25):
They fit into a lot of these kind of familiar
tropes from Gothic fiction, and there's some there's ones that
really just chilled us to the bone. One of my
favorites chapters that I wrote was called they Told You
to Run Tales from the Bloody Pit. And this was
what the nickname for the Husac Tunnel was. And that

(53:46):
was a tunnel that was being dug out in the
eighteen fifties.

Speaker 14 (53:51):
That at least the project started in the eighteen fifties.

Speaker 15 (53:53):
It was delayed a lot and didn't actually open until
after the Civil War, and it was connecting New York
and Massachusetts for trade and travel and freight towards the
Erie Canal.

Speaker 14 (54:06):
So it was this very big commercial.

Speaker 15 (54:09):
Tunnel that was being built, but all of the men
who were excavating it were complaining about hearing these spectral
moans because the first explosion it was actually the first
tunnel to use nitroglisser and as an explosive for excavation specifically,
and even that went wrong and people died during that
initial explosion. The man who set the charge off early
was found dead on the site the year. The next year,

(54:32):
everyone who was there there was no one could figure
out how he had died. There was an investigation, no
one was charged. All of the workmen said it was
the ghosts of those who had been prematurely killed in
the blast. All of the Husac Tunnel excavations were marred
with all kinds of death. It was very destructive of
a place. It was not a safe place to work.

(54:54):
The workers went on strike, their demands were ignored. They
were forced back onto the job, and over one hundred
and forty men died in this just it wasn't even
two miles of stretch of tunnel, and so it got
this nickname of the Bloody Pit. And there were these
one of these explosions that happened during its ill fated run.

(55:15):
It still is a working tunnel, but so many men
died just building it. It's still a working freight tunnel.
And yet all of these men who were kind of
put to this job would discuss these unearthly sounds that
they would hear in the tunnel as they were doing
the excavation. The family members of those who couldn't be
found from some of the blasts until bodies were recovered.

(55:38):
There was a discussion of seeing these figures that would
just float along this mountain side in northwestern Massachusetts, north
Adams County, and it was just this very, very chilling
space and it fit all of these tropes of this
Gothic kind of feel where it's everything is chilly and
everything is this is this mysterious omen warning you against

(56:01):
these trials to come, And in fact it's an interesting
thing where it sort of becomes a helpful ghost, this
sort of mysterious omen. Later on, after all of these
men have died trying to build this tunnel, when it
is being used as a working freight tunnel, there's a
man who gave an interview to a local paper. His
name's Joe and Poco, and he was talking about how
he believes ghost saved his life, not once, but twice.

(56:23):
Ghosts saved his life because he saw a figure he
didn't recognize of just walking along the tracks at one point,
and then he heard a voice in his ear say, run, Joe, run,
And he hadn't heard that there was an oncoming train.
It was off schedule. And the way that the curve
of the tunnel is, the acoustics are really difficult. You
can't always tell when something is coming. So he dashed
to safety just before he would have been run over.

(56:44):
And he credited this voice in his ear, this disembodied voice,
and maybe it had to be one of those dead
miners who is trying to look out for a fellow workman.
A second occurrence of this, he was holding a crowbar
working late at night on a ship when he heard
a voice urgently say drop it, Joe, drop it, and
as he did, an arch electricity two hundred volts come

(57:07):
surging from an electrical failure and striking against the rail below.
Had he been holding that crowbar, he absolutely would have
been electrified on the spot. And he said to the
paper that he credits these ghosts for saving his life.
And so I kind of like the idea of the
sort of worker solidarity across the centuries in the nineteen

(57:27):
seventies worker who is saved by a nineteenth century you know, excavator.
And I feel like these sort of omens and these
warnings that the spirit world can be giving us, I
think that that's a very dynamic way to make the
trials of history very present for us, and so it
can become this dialogue between past and present while also

(57:48):
kind of.

Speaker 14 (57:49):
Being very eerie in the moment too. But I love
ghost lore.

Speaker 15 (57:53):
That's yes, chilling, absolutely, but also can be interestingly helpful
and also can be a warning for us to take
care of ourselves while we're alive as well.

Speaker 3 (58:04):
Imagine you say, cursed families, mysterious omens, open crips, hidden chambers,
haunted houses and buildings, wild landscapes dotted with dead ships,
swamps shrouded in deathly fogs, all that is at play here.

Speaker 15 (58:20):
Yeah, we have instances of every single one of these
things that you would expect out of a gothic fiction,
and real stories of ghost ships and corpse brides and
all kinds of things that have all of these documented
historical contexts and speak to some really wild and truly
stranger than fiction scenarios. You know, I added a lot

(58:43):
of things up in my Elena and the Count chapter
about a man who lived with a corpse as his wife,
stole this woman's poor woman's body, who was not his relation,
who was not his wife, who was not even related
or in an engagement or any kind of relation with him,
unbeknownst to her family, and all of these like this,

(59:04):
like a whole retinue of really disgusting and horrible things.
And friends of mine were like when I was describing
what I was working on, They're like, oh, wow, that's
going to be interesting in your fiction.

Speaker 14 (59:14):
I'm like, no, this is for the nonfiction, and they're
like no. And I said my editor and I joked about,
you know these things.

Speaker 15 (59:21):
If I'd submitted this as an actual fiction, she'd be like,
come on. So the really is there are things that
play out truly stranger than fiction. And so Andrea, as
my co author and I we just we found things
that just we thought were truly wild that we could
deep dive into as best we could and try to
make these parallels. For some of the staying power of

(59:42):
these stories are because they do fit into the tropes,
like you were just describing, which is how we break
the book down into these differentes of these these discussions,
these kinds of expectations that you find in a lot
of fiction, again playing right out in our nonfiction. So

(01:00:04):
it takes on a whole other life when you can
double it with something that sounds exactly like urban legend,
But what happens when you actually experience that yourself?

Speaker 3 (01:00:12):
So how does that Gothic ghost tradition compared again to
some of the other traditions.

Speaker 15 (01:00:19):
I think when you start to look at the tropes
of Gothic literature, there's a little bit more of a
through line of full storytelling rather than just and a
single isolated instance of something scary or something unexpected.

Speaker 14 (01:00:32):
I think when you start.

Speaker 15 (01:00:33):
Looking at the framework of all of these the histories
that we chose to discuss are ones that have amount
of depth in its own storytelling and can ask us
to really kind of wonder about our.

Speaker 14 (01:00:47):
Own senses along the way.

Speaker 15 (01:00:49):
So it becomes for us something that becomes something A
ghost that we would consider following Gothic tradition is one
that becomes immersive. It's one that makes us think of
about our own psychology, and it's one that gives us
a certain sense of dread, but then there is some sort.

Speaker 14 (01:01:05):
Of cathartic outcome from it.

Speaker 15 (01:01:07):
So we really tried to focus on something that wasn't
necessarily one isolated incident, but was part of a broader story.
It makes for better storytelling as a writer, and it
also proves a more lasting archetype when you're putting it
into a historical context, if you're retelling the ghost story,
if you have as much depth as we're able to
find in some of these, and makes it all the

(01:01:28):
richer and makes it all the more memorable.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
All right, If you want to go on a future
ghost tour, you can go to burroughsofthedead dot com if
you're in New York City. Leanna Renee Heber our guest tonight,
Andrea James. They are the founder, They are the She
is the founder and owner, and they are the co
authors of the book America's Most Gothic Haunted History, Stranger

(01:01:52):
than Fiction. Happy Halloween. Appreciate you coming on the program.

Speaker 14 (01:01:55):
Thanks for let me tell you a ghostory.

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
Oh absolutely or two and more to come on Dead Air.
We've got plenty more of those to come somewhere between
the paranormal and the abnormal.

Speaker 12 (01:02:06):
I'm Jeremy Scott, Dead Air.

Speaker 16 (01:03:00):
Can't really need the heir's magic in the air and
then stop changing consuls, cowell.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
The children just so scary.

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
It's saying nothing to.

Speaker 17 (01:03:12):
Make you scream.

Speaker 18 (01:03:13):
This could only one thing. It's ours Allen again shining
likely Azo, which is why on my all them six
straight into their darkness name.

Speaker 16 (01:03:33):
You don't get passing.

Speaker 18 (01:03:34):
They got en joy to see. It's can only mean
one thing. It's hards are lowena.

Speaker 5 (01:03:56):
Because these that's a death.

Speaker 8 (01:03:59):
That's coltry stuff.

Speaker 18 (01:04:00):
It's the boy drink such people.

Speaker 16 (01:04:03):
You have the baddest stuff than and the talk strikes
the night.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
It's best.

Speaker 5 (01:04:10):
Bobby.

Speaker 8 (01:04:10):
Schools and nasses are low strange.

Speaker 16 (01:04:40):
I start to be getting wells, magic, saw changing other SMS,
pumping children dress so scary to say enough to make the.

Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
School it's holy be it's har monster make over mere
Returning tonight on Dead Air.

Speaker 5 (01:05:13):
Welcome Air, Abnormals.

Speaker 4 (01:05:15):
You're listening to Dead Air. Happy Halloween.

Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
Yeah, it is Halloween night, friends, and we are not
done telling stories. We could go all night, friends, but
we have to caught it, cut it off somewhere, unfortunately,
and the night is getting later. By the hour. So

(01:05:48):
we have a couple of stories still to share with
you here on the program. Without further ado, we shall
proceed with said stories.

Speaker 5 (01:06:03):
All right.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
Out of India, a headless figure in the school bathroom
send high school students in Trapura to the hospital. The
kids reportedly fainted and collapsed after seeing the jet black figure.
Other students and staff say they've had similar encounters. This

(01:06:23):
bathroom apparently is linked to unexplained deaths. How we're gonna
talk about the bathroom again. Parents have actually called for
it to be dismantled because of this activity. Yeah, the
bathroom is coming back around again on the program. There

(01:06:45):
have been unexplained deaths in the bathroom of this school
in India. That's some scary stuff right there. In China,
viral video out of Hong Kong apparently shows a ghostly
figure disappearing into the night. A driver stopped their car

(01:07:06):
to avoid hitting the stumbling, long haired woman in white
as she drifted past the vehicle at a zombie like
pace before vanishing. The areas near where seven sisters drowned
themselves at sea. Legend has that their spirits transformed into
rocks that line the shore, so could one of them

(01:07:28):
be out for a late night stroll.

Speaker 5 (01:07:33):
You never know.

Speaker 3 (01:07:35):
In Argentina, a video from surveillance cameras that we're recording
show a man and we'll put that in quotes walking
down the street who then vanished without a trace, with
government agents looking on. I guess that would be the
twist here, right, with government agents looking on. Local thirties

(01:08:01):
confirmed that the footage was not altered. So was this
a camera trick or a real life specter? Well, your
guess is as good as mine. Anything as possible, especially
on dead air.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
Pure abnormal news. I'm George Henry. A visitor from deep
space is quite literally making waves of its own sound waves.
That is, astronomers have detected intriguing radio signals coming from
Comet twelve p Ponds Brooks, which swings by Earth about
every seventy one years. Their findings are based on data

(01:08:40):
from China's ti on Mah radio telescope during the comet's
closest approach to the Sun last year. First discovered in
eighteen twelve, it has long been known for dramatic outbursts
of light and energy, but this time science has picked
up spikes in radio emissions tied to hydroxyl, a product
of water vapor broken down by sunlight. The team's models

(01:09:03):
show the comet is far more active than others of
its kind. NASA researchers recently confirmed that twelve peas water
is nearly identical to Earth's, strengthening the theory that ancient
comets may have helped deliver the ingredients for life. Here
a pair of normal news every hour on into the
pair of normal.

Speaker 5 (01:09:55):
Dead Air.

Speaker 3 (01:09:59):
Now you know it's Halloween night when you hear dead
Air on into the pair abnormal, somewhere between the paranormal
and the abnormal. I'm Jeremy Scott's got some great stories
on the program tonight from listeners and also that we
have scoured from the Internet and from our guests on

(01:10:20):
the program. I suspect these next two gentlemen will be
no different. They are Rob Gutrow and Wynn Brewer, authors
of Ghosts of Lynnville, Manor, investigating Maryland's most haunted house.
So we're going to end our time this year together

(01:10:42):
on Dead Air talking about what tis earned the reputation
of being a pretty haunted place in the state of Maryland.
Rob Gutro, who's actually been here on a previous dead
Air with us as an author, paranormal investigator, and pet medium.
Since he was a teen, he's been able to receive
messages from ghosts or spirits who have crossed over. He

(01:11:03):
participates in private investigations and helps human ghosts crossover as well.
He has three series of books. His latest has written
alongside Win Brewer, owner of Lynnville Manor, called Ghosts of
Lynnville Manor, investigating Maryland's most Haunted House. Hi Rob, how
are you doing great?

Speaker 5 (01:11:22):
Jeremy?

Speaker 3 (01:11:23):
Thanks for having me, My pleasure. And Win Brewer the
owner and operator of the Lynnville Manor in Upper marl Burrough, Maryland.
He is an avid video storyteller, producer and director as well.
Hello Win, Happy Halloween.

Speaker 19 (01:11:38):
Hey, happy Halloween. Nice spooky time. Thanks thanks for having
us here.

Speaker 3 (01:11:42):
Absolutely my pleasure. So, whoever wants to go first, give
us some of the basics here, location history, that sort
of thing. For Lynnville Manor.

Speaker 17 (01:11:53):
We should go first because he can tell you all
the history.

Speaker 19 (01:11:57):
I was gonna say that might be my cue.

Speaker 4 (01:12:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 19 (01:12:00):
So basically the property dates back to the late sixteen hundreds.
It was part of a circle grant from early days
of Maryland and basically you know, someone would point to
a map, do a little circle and say, all right,
this plot of land is going to go to this
prominent family. One of the prominent families of Maryland is

(01:12:21):
the Bouie family. One of the first governors was a Booie,
and it did go to them. Several hundred acres went
to the family late sixteen hundreds. By seventeen seventeen they
actually built the first structure here on the property. That
farm was for tobacco and hogs primarily, and it was

(01:12:41):
very expansive, big operation. The house went on as is
as that working farm until around eighteen forty nine, and
then a mysterious fire actually took the first house to
the ground very quickly, and the family though they decided
that basically, you know, good bones what was left, so

(01:13:05):
on the very same spot of the original house, they
rebuilt and the home was finished its new construction between
eighteen fifty two eighteen fifty four. That was for Sarah
Maria Bowie and stayed with the Bowie family for another
one hundred years, and at that point it switched hands
to a state representative from Illinois, Calvin Johnson and his

(01:13:28):
wife Gladys, who came in did massive renovations to the house,
added on an entire wing, and if you come to
the house you'll see today there is such a mid
century flare to it and that's all due to their work.

Speaker 8 (01:13:43):
On the house.

Speaker 3 (01:13:44):
I have to ask you, are you at the house tonight?

Speaker 9 (01:13:47):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:13:47):
I'm here all right, because you said here, and so
I was wondering if that's the actual location? Is this
a police you reside in or you are at often so.

Speaker 19 (01:14:00):
The way it is designed and this was again a
design by the Johnson's, there's actually a caretaker space built
right above the kitchen. So that's a perfect little apartment here, bedroom, bathroom,
and you can literally rent the house out to groups
to do you know, two hundred person event and you
don't hear any of that. I mean, paranormal investigators are

(01:14:21):
here on the regular doing their investigations, their research, their work,
you know, and I can just be up here in
the apartment. So yeah, that's the current plan. A few
years down the road, baby, I will be completely off site.
But for now I'm here with the others.

Speaker 3 (01:14:38):
Okay, So Rob, and tell us how you got involved
in this as a medium. Were you brought into kind
of sense whatever? Spirits may be here. I was brought
in by.

Speaker 17 (01:14:50):
When to address one particular earthbound ghost that was causing
some disturbances in the basement, and when could from let
me tell you better than I could about what he
experienced and what prompted to call it.

Speaker 19 (01:15:07):
Yeah, I like to say that at this point in
the history of me being here is when I decided
I needed to call the ghostbusters or someone who knew
what was going on. So for several years right after
I got it, it was in very much a rehab position.
You know, there was a lot of work to be done.

Speaker 3 (01:15:26):
Slowly but surely.

Speaker 19 (01:15:27):
Within about a year, I got it to be habitable
and even had rooms for rent on Airbnb, and things
were great things where people were coming and going. But
then again the interactions with our ghosts started to begin
and we would have very similar occurrences in each of
the rooms, so we knew something was going on, and

(01:15:48):
there was still a very happy balance. However, as I
continued to renovate, I finally got to the basement, which
is now a speakeasy. But upon starting those renovations, there
was an old boiler there that we needed moved out.
It was moved out damaged the foundation of the house,

(01:16:09):
just scraped it out a little bit, and then things changed.
There was a heaviness in the house, almost a depressive feeling.
Guess we're having interactions that were actually scary somewhere. Seeing
this eyeless man appear at the foot of a bed,
feeling pressure on their chests, drowning sensations, just a lot

(01:16:31):
was very uncomfortable. And it seemed like it was stemming
from the basement where people at night would hear put
this up and down and even recording like heavy breathing.
And like I said, when I was down there, there
was a small workout area and I thought my dog
had run down there at the time because I see
a shadow pass and all of a sudden there's an

(01:16:53):
old filing cabinet from the nineteen fifties.

Speaker 3 (01:16:56):
It comes like just wildly open.

Speaker 19 (01:17:00):
And that's when I said, Okay, like I love and
appreciate the ghosts here, but this doesn't feel like the
normal energy, and I need some answers, and Rob and
his team had them.

Speaker 3 (01:17:12):
So Rob, what did you sense? I guess when it
was your first impression.

Speaker 17 (01:17:17):
Well, oddly enough, my first impression, Jarmy was not from
the inside of the house. We didn't even get in
the house before we into.

Speaker 20 (01:17:25):
While we encountered ghosts.

Speaker 17 (01:17:26):
I mean there were there were a couple of different
ghosts that that we met outside, and I think we
didn't I don't think we got to the basement until
after we went through the entire house, where we encountered
a whole bunch of other ghosts.

Speaker 3 (01:17:40):
So all right, well we have to pause here because
we're on the break. Rob Gotrow and Wind Brewer are
with us and co authors of the book Ghosts of
Lynnville Manor, investigating Maryland's most haunted house. We'll find out
why it's earned that reputation tonight, when dead air continue,
use into the pair of normal, into the.

Speaker 5 (01:18:20):
Pair of normal, pair of normal, into the pair of normal,

(01:18:47):
dead air, I ro' back to back.

Speaker 3 (01:18:50):
We're almost back on the air. It's a weird thing
to us say, but you know, when you experience dead
air and there just is the sound of silence, it
would sound something like that. Of course, when there's that sound,
it's an oh, you know what moment. If you're a
program director on one of the radio stations who's carrying

(01:19:11):
the program, or if you're even a host wondering, you know,
what's happening to my signal?

Speaker 12 (01:19:15):
Why is it not going on?

Speaker 3 (01:19:16):
Well, in this case, we're about to be back on
the air because Dead Air is winding down. For twenty
twenty five, we have talking about Maryland's most haunted house,
Rob Gutro, who is a medium and paranormal investigator and
author and also the owner and operator of the property Lynnville, Manor.
When Brewer with us, Roba called in after some activity

(01:19:40):
by Win and are you sensing from what I understand,
multiple spirits, Rob.

Speaker 17 (01:19:47):
Yes, as my factor for they were earthbine ghosts in
various rooms. When I remember, once we finally got inside
the house, we walked into myself, another media and one
of the other paranorm investigators. We walked into the front
front door and uh, myself and the other medium conferred

(01:20:09):
that there were five different earth boun ghosts standing there
watching us as we came in, and we talked to
Win and then we would later meet them as we
went through.

Speaker 3 (01:20:18):
The mansion, meet them like on a name basis, some
of them on a.

Speaker 17 (01:20:25):
One to one yep. So one of the very first
ones that we encountered was a man that we call
that we identified as a gardener and he liked to
linger in the first floor in what is the ballroom area.

(01:20:46):
So we called him a groundskeeper and uh and we
and we we got his story and there there was
some There are a number of things that happened there.
We had the first we felt the cold spot.

Speaker 20 (01:21:04):
Now coal spots are the coal spots occurred when ghosts
or ghosts absorbed the energy of motion of air molecules,
slowing them down, and that a slower moving molecules of
air are colder air. So that was that was one
way that we identified that he was there.

Speaker 17 (01:21:24):
In that particular room. We can tell you about previous
experiences about moving a chair.

Speaker 5 (01:21:31):
Yeah, So.

Speaker 19 (01:21:33):
Like so many things I like to tell people now,
like anything and everything that you see on a paranormal
show has happened and happens in this house. So lights
that are unexplained, of temperature changes, voices, moving objects. So
this one in particular, there's a chair that's in the
corner of the room and from the early days of

(01:21:54):
renting it out, the chair would move out facing the backyard.
You know, we'd go back and forth on did the
people who rent it move it? They think that I
moved it. Nope, like no one had moved it. Turns
out we were just like, Okay, it's facing the cemetery.
Maybe if this is a ghost, they're looking out towards
the Revolutionary War cemetery. But then years later I met

(01:22:15):
the descendants of the home. I tell them this story,
and they actually said that there was a gentleman, ed
mcsiny that died here in the nineteen fifties and his
dying wish was to be pulled in his chair to
the window so he could watch the trains go by.
So yeah, you know multiple Again, we know many of

(01:22:35):
them by first name basis, just because of actions that
had happened in the house, and then comparing it with
family history notes, none of which I knew when I
moved in here. But Rob and his team quickly had
their own greetings.

Speaker 3 (01:22:49):
Does this property run in the family or how do
you come in? How did you come in possession of it?

Speaker 19 (01:22:56):
I guess I'm the redheaded stepchild. But technically I found
it on an online auction. I was looking for a
two bedroom in the area, and believe it or not,
a dilapidated mansion in the DC area is cheaper than
any two bedroom. So that's how I fit into the picture.
Years later, the family was just like, oh, man, like
you rehabbed our historic home, we'd love to meet you.

Speaker 3 (01:23:19):
Okay, what kinds of things of people who've stayed here
experienced on the paranormal side, Well.

Speaker 19 (01:23:26):
Like I said, kind of anything and everything. Everything from
like a brushing to the arm. Some people feel like
they get a brush on the ankle from our ghost
catch shadow. They will hear distant voices in other rooms
if they have ghost hunting gear, Any and every kind
of gear has not only detected something was there, but

(01:23:49):
often responds to questions directly. People have seen shadows, people
have been locked in rooms. People have heard commotion of
like someone running out of the house, and then they
go to check and nothing has changed, like no one
has left their rooms. On any given night, you might
be sitting in the lounge watching your favorite TV program

(01:24:12):
and there's a like a mist that will come into
the space.

Speaker 3 (01:24:17):
What have you personally witnessed there on the property yourself?

Speaker 19 (01:24:22):
Oh yeah, I mean any any given day. I mean,
if you're just like on your laptop answering emails, you
hear it's almost like someone is very curious about what
you're doing. It sounds like they're kind of tiptoeing around
in the rooms beside you, sort of hesitantly watching. In
my early days of doing repairs and rehabs to the house,

(01:24:46):
one of the memories that I have that's actually in
the book is that I was trying to push mow
in the backyard, which was a meadow because it was
grown up, but literally out of just the corner of
my eyesight, I pick up on this gentleman, maybe the
one that Rob was just describing as sort of this gardener,
but he was dressed completely in what I think is

(01:25:08):
burlap from head to toe, a big almost like a scarecrow,
so burlap hat, burlap jacket, heavy trousers, and I just
in my mind, I was shocked by it because I said,
you know, it's it's like July, like, who is wearing
this heavy outfit? And why are they, you know, here
in almost abandoned property. Almost But as soon as I

(01:25:30):
looked up gone, I've never seen him again. So I
don't know if it was sort of a greeting, a hello,
or sort of a friendly warning, but that was weeks
within being here, and it shook me a little bit.
It made me say, well, I don't know anything about
the history here. I didn't even know about the fire
that it consumed the first house, So I was coming

(01:25:52):
in completely to the unknown.

Speaker 3 (01:25:56):
What is your goal of owning this profit? Are you
hoping that there are additional investigations that go on that
maybe we can start to learn more about the history
or what.

Speaker 19 (01:26:11):
Yeah, so I've been here about seven years now, and
the initial thing was just trying to find a house
in the area. But when I found this property, my
sort of mindset was like, well, shoot, I don't need
all this space. I would love to turn it into
an events venue.

Speaker 4 (01:26:29):
Now.

Speaker 19 (01:26:29):
I was thinking weddings, baby showers, holiday parties, and those
things all exist. Now you just have to put haunted
in front of each one of them. Because even what
I had described to people as the bridal suite in
my mind turned out to be the most haunted bedroom
in the entire house, the conservatory bedroom.

Speaker 3 (01:26:51):
So Sooty's there, you know, for a wedding, they may
not be having such a good time, So it comes
with a disclaimer. I guess they should.

Speaker 19 (01:27:00):
They should just expect a few extra guests on their
guest list.

Speaker 3 (01:27:04):
Yes, sure, that's a great way of putting it.

Speaker 19 (01:27:08):
Yeah, but anyway, I mean, since learning that there were
ghosts here, your initial reaction is you're a little apprehensive
when guests come to you with circumstances, like you don't
really know what to tell them. But you know, after
kind of getting getting into it, like you start to
learn the history, you start to learn who the ghosts are.

(01:27:29):
You have people like Rob helping explain what could be there,
and then you have the records from the family. So
at the end I come away with like, yeah, there
are miss there were misunderstandings, but now that you know
the ghosts, you can explain those stories. It's now a
very welcoming active space for paranormal But it's sort of,

(01:27:51):
you know, a safe space. It's not like a prisoner
or a sanitarium or something where there's really dark stuff.
The individuals here were people, and so that respect between
human and ghost can occur and you can have a
paranormal experience with it without it being terrifying.

Speaker 3 (01:28:08):
Guys, that's all the time we have when folks can
come visit the property, right, how do they get in
touch with you? If they want to come for a visit.

Speaker 19 (01:28:17):
Absolutely, you can find us Lynnvillemanner dot com. We're on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok.
So just seek us out, send me a message and
set something out. We'd love for you to see the
house and investigate, all right.

Speaker 3 (01:28:30):
Rob, tell us about how folks can find out about
your books and your website.

Speaker 17 (01:28:34):
Sure, they can go to Rob Gutro dot com or
petspirits dot com and the books you are on Amazon.
There are a lot of books we didn't even I
mean a lot of ghosting them in the book. We
didn't even put base.

Speaker 8 (01:28:45):
On them yet.

Speaker 17 (01:28:46):
But it's really a great place to visit and it's
a great place to read about the ghosts. They all
have their own stories.

Speaker 3 (01:28:53):
Ghosts of Lynnville Matter, investigating Maryland's most haunted house. That's
Rob Gutro and when Brewer thanks guys, have Halloween.

Speaker 9 (01:29:02):
You you, Jeremy, thank you, Happy Halloween.

Speaker 3 (01:29:04):
Good night friends until next year.

Speaker 12 (01:29:08):
Did arid arid Arid Arid Arid