Ep. #862: John Ventre – Kecksburg: A 60-Year UFO Mystery

One of the all-time classic UFO cases happened 60 years ago this week in rural Pennsylvania when witnesses reported seeing a fiery object shaped like an acorn streak across the sky and crash into the woods. Witnesses to the event were reportedly kept out of the area by armed personnel. Jeremy welcomes John Ventre to discuss the 1965 Kecksburg incident and what his research suggests may be the most likely explanation.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Five four three two one.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
We interrupt our program to bring you this important message.

Speaker 3 (00:13):
A confirmed attack is taking place against the United States.
Aliens from an unknown location have been reported in multiple states.

Speaker 4 (00:21):
We are controlling transmission.

Speaker 5 (00:24):
There is another world that a waits far beyond what
we can see and feel, of a place that's anything
but ordinate. Would you believe.

Speaker 4 (00:35):
I not think?

Speaker 5 (00:38):
Step into the.

Speaker 4 (00:39):
Song how the first time?

Speaker 2 (00:41):
No alien.

Speaker 6 (00:48):
Expiracies and cover to the pair red not a weegogo
with Jeremy Scott.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
I don't know about you, but it's those missies like
we discuss somewhere between the paranormal and the abnormal, those
that go on and on and on, like the Energizer
buddy that interest me the most. I don't know about you,
but I mean when there's an explanation for something that's cool,
you know we're able to reach a conclusion. I love conclusions.

(01:20):
I love bringing updates. In fact, I hope to bring
updates as many times as we can, which means we
might get validation, say of a claim that was made
from a news article. Usually it's not me standing here
and saying this is the case. I have reports of this,
verifiable information and trusted sources who are saying this. Sometimes

(01:45):
they get egg on their face or they step in
you know what, and we have to correct the record.
But for the most part, when we talk about these
as subjects somewhere between the paranormal and the abnormal, there
is no conclusion. There's like a dot dot dot at
the end of the episode. I don't know if you
felt like that, And when you've listened to the show

(02:07):
that it leaves often many times more questions than answers,
especially about these subjects which are not black and white. No,
they're actually green and gray, and red and blue and
purple and all sorts of colors. You'll get where I'm
going with this tonight, So take this with a great assault.

(02:31):
But we're getting word of a UFO crash in Chili.
You don't hear about these often. I mean I can
run down some of the ones that I know off
the top of my head. The Aztec UFO crash of Roswell,
certainly we had Kechsburg. Can't forget about the Cape Girardo,

(02:54):
the Shag Harbor incident, Rendelsham Forest. I mean, the list
really does go on. If you know you're UFO history,
you could probably think of even a few more. But
we don't hear about him very often anymore these days,
just like we don't hear about abductions. I can't tell
you the last time I heard somebody say that they

(03:16):
were abducted and it went mainstream. I mean, sure, you
hear from people that say I'm taken by aliens and
I'm visited nightly, and I really don't know what to
make of those claims. But we don't hear about the
Betty and Barney Hills. We don't hear about the Travis Waltons.
We don't hear about the Calvin Parker and Charlie Hickson's anymore,
just like we don't really hear much about UFO crashes.

(03:40):
But there's a video that has been circulating that appears
to show it looks like a UFO. I have no
way to verify it, but there it is, tucked away
within a rocky formation on the side of a mountain
again in Chile or Chile. A man who was touring
the region recorded video of the object last month. It

(04:00):
shows a metallic dish shaped object concealed among rocks on
the upper part of the valley, and at one point
you can see sunlight reflecting off its surface while it
remains completely still, along with what appeared to be faint silhouettes.
Now this could be anything, right, I mean, we have
to take him at his word that it wasn't doctored video.

(04:21):
Perhaps with the coordinates we might be able to find
it on a map somewhere, but nothing has been confirmed,
likely never will be. But the area where this happened
is well known, I am told for frequent reports of
these unidentified flying objects, so it remains to be seen.

(04:42):
This one may be debunked. Only time will tell, but
I had to share it with you since we're going
to talk about a famous UFO crash tonight. This one
happened in Pennsylvania, a state that continues to be among
the top ten in UFO reports. And if Stan Gordon
wasn't being inundated, just with the sixty year anniversary of

(05:04):
the Kexsburg UFO incident, we would have him on the program.
But certainly there's an episode that we have in the
archives where we talk about this that is as good
as any. So go back and check that out with
Stan Gordon on all of the podcast apps, as they say,
where it is free to listen to the program he
certainly knows a lot about Kexsburg as an investigator for

(05:26):
Moufon and also the Kexsburg incident. We got the former
state director though of Moufon in Pennsylvania who'll be coming
on the program tonight to talk about this case with
us looking forward to that. Sixty years ago though the
Kechsburg UFO incident happened. One of the all time classic cases.

(05:47):
We can argue it was December ninth, nineteen sixty five,
a bright fireball streaked across the skies of six US
states and parts of Canada before reportedly crashing near Kecksburg, Pennsylvania.
It's near Pittsburgh from what I understand, I think about
forty miles or something to that effect. But the question remains,

(06:11):
what was it. Astronomers attributed the event to a bull
eyed meteor entering the atmosphere at a steep angle, and
in two thousand and five NASA stated that experts had
once analyzed material from this site. So forty years later
they're telling this and concluded that it came from a
Soviet satellite. But you can't see the records because, oh,

(06:33):
by the way, those were lost in nineteen eighty seven.
So twenty years after the incident, maybe they're feeling the
heat and the records are destroyed. And then forty years
after the incident they say, oh, by the way, we
analyzed a sample, but we have no records. Yeah, those
have been destroyed. How convenient you know there's no conspiracy there, huh.

(06:59):
The case, which later prompted Freedom of Information Act FOIA
requests and legal challenges, has become widely discussed in UFO
circles and pop culture, and the speculation is still ever present,
from extraterrestrial craft to remnants of a Soviet probe. It's
often even referred to as Pennsylvania's ra aswell. So what

(07:25):
were people seeing? Well, they said it glowed with several
colors and it made a turn, which is weird. They
don't normally see those in UFO reports. I mean, yeah,
they whisk away, but they don't usually I mean turn
like this object did. It seemed to be controlled. Witnesses
saw Egyptian like markings that looked like they were welded

(07:46):
on a five pointed star, which of course matches army
and Air Force symbols of the day. Witnesses were then
chased out of the woods untild the area, maybe radio active.
Onlookers saw four guys in moonsuits carry a box said
to be about four foot by four foot into the woods.

(08:10):
It was the size of about two suitcases laid on
a flatbed. There were about twenty to twenty five armed
military personnel on site, witnesses say, and they were prevented
from accessing the area by these armed personnel. And when
military and civilians use their phones, they reported that those

(08:33):
calls did not turn up on their bill. I think
that's kind of a sign of the times. You got
charged by the call, so you always looked at your
phone bill to make sure you weren't. There was no
shady business there now. I mean, everybody's pretty much on
an unlimited plan. We don't look at our phone bills
to see if there are records of our calls. Although
I'm sure there's digitally a record of that. I wouldn't

(08:55):
even know where to look that up. I'm just I mean,
it's twenty twenty five. We don't look at our bills anymore.
But it's mysterious because those calls were made yet there
was no record of them. And so here we are
sixty years later, and the mystery lives on. There's an

(09:18):
annual celebration in Kecksburg. A model of the alleged object
is on display near the fire station there. You'll remember
that from the Unsolved Mysteries episode. The Kecksburg incident has
become famous in UFO lore, with speculation, speculations all over
the place. We'll talk about it tonight. Into the Pair

(09:41):
of Normal, I'm Jeviy Scott.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
Into the pair of normal, pair.

Speaker 3 (09:57):
Of somewhere between the paranormal and the abnormal. I'm Jeremy Scott.
Sixty years ago this week, the Kecksburg UFO incident, one

(10:21):
of the most famous in all of UFO history. December ninth,
nineteen sixty five. Talking about that tonight and welcoming to
the program now. John Ventry the Pennsylvania State Director for
the Mutual UFO Network from two thousand and seven to
two thousand and seventeen. He is the author of a

(10:42):
dozen books, including UFOs over Pennsylvania. He's been investigating all
sorts of sightings across the state and abroad. John, welcome
back to the program.

Speaker 4 (10:54):
Yeah, thanks for having me on again. This is one
of my favorite topics because I did a one eight
on this one, but it's all based on research, which
is what I did with the book.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
You mean your mind changed.

Speaker 4 (11:08):
Yeah, yeah, I you know, this was This is tough
because I lived seven eight miles north of Kexsburgh, and
you know, for being the state director. This was a
case that is the biggest one in the state, probably
followed by prescou Island and well, I would say followed
by the Bucks County case, then prescou Island and Carbondale.

(11:33):
But I was approached by an engineer and then we
went through it and I grilled him and I got
to be honest, you know, he answered my questions. But
let's just go back to nineteen sixty five and I'll
take you back a few months, six months and tell
you what was going on. You were o Wis in
sixty five and it's leading up to Kesburgh.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
Perfect.

Speaker 4 (11:55):
So, June fourth, nineteen sixty five, Gemini four astronaut James
mcdibb it he photographs the UFO and he sends the
pictures to I guess that would be Nassa. And he
was told that what he saw was a booster rocket
and he said, no, I could see the booster rocket
off to the side. And this was an unidentified object

(12:18):
flying out there. Two months later you have the famous
Rex Heflin picture. He was a highway accident inspector, so
I would think he'd be very believable. But one of
the things that when you look at that picture and
it's kind of hovering, I mean, it kind of looks
like somebody threw a hubcap up there, But when you

(12:39):
look directly below it, it's creating like a vortext and
you can see the dirt kicking off, you know, like
a mini tornado. So that's not a hubcap. This was
a good picture and United prest International examined the photos
and declared they were real. And here's a mistake again.

(13:01):
The original prints were turned over to NORAD for examination.
NORAD and the Air Force then receiving them and they
said it was a hoax. So you know, the lesson
is never turned the original it's over. Can I give
you a real quick side note. When I did the
Bucks County investigation, we got radar, and we got we
were able to send it to Colorado, Denver and they

(13:25):
printed six screens off and showing a large object with
no transponder and did the Philly Airport sent me these
discs man, I hit those things. I didn't give them anybody.
I didn't give them to the History Channel, I didn't
give them to the Discovery Channel. I just gave them
the prints from it, because you don't give up the originals,
not after what we see in this field. So now

(13:47):
you go to the next month. September got the famous
Exitter and New Hampshire case where witnesses and two police
officers saw a large object with red lights on it.
Two months you got the Great Northeast Blackout November ninth
of sixty five that started up in Syracuse when a

(14:08):
UFO was spotted tapping into the power lines. A pilot
saw this. His name was Wolden Ross, and that caused
the power grid to fail. So I think that's all,
you know, important stuff, because there are a lot of
good cases out there, and I think you know to
me that one of the best cases is the Battle

(14:29):
of la in nineteen forty two. That's the case that
started the modern UFO era. It wasn't Roswelt, it was
the Los Angeles case. Then for three reasons. It was
the first time we fired on a UFO and we
hit it, couldn't bring it down. It's the first time

(14:49):
that they used the weather balloon excuse. And there was
a third point. Maybe it was that we hit the
UFO and couldn't take it down. But the first time
we admitted to a UFO, so that was real. That
was in the Japanese plane or weather balloon or something
like that, although they said it was a weather balloon,
and they used the same excuse in Roswell so best

(15:11):
Goward to twenty fifteen. So you know, I'm the state
director here I'm doing. I actually had seven states, and
you know, we focused more on Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Virginia,
and then I had four Northeast states up there in
New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Vermont, Maine, which I never went
up to, but I worked remotely with them. But this

(15:33):
guy contacts me, Owen Eichler, and he said it was
he worked in the nuclear field. You know, I looked
him up. He had a pretty good background. He goes
helped me bring the truth out about Kecksburgh and I said, okay,
but you know you're going to have to convince me
on this thing that this is not an alien craft.

(15:53):
So so I listened to his story and I kind
of wrote him off and I said, yeah right. So
it was like two days later, I'm watching something on
TV and they were talking about the green fireballs over
New Mexico in the late nineteen fifties and something. I
remember what this guy told me. He said, Ketsburgh, you know,

(16:16):
all the witness who saw it said it was glowing
green as it came in. And he said, that's because
it was a spy satellite. The GB mark to re
entry vehicle had a copper alloy heat shield and it
would glow green. So I said, well, wait a second.
They would have been testing these over New Mexico from
the Air Force bases there people seeing these green objects

(16:39):
falling down as it heated up in our atmosphere. I
called the guy back. I said, okay, right now, you
convinced me that the green fireballs over New Mexico were
the Spice satellite. Let's go through this again. And I
grilled this guy. You know, so here I'm going to

(16:59):
go like some of the things that were said, and
then I got a list of witnesses or what they said,
and then I got a list of what the evidence is,
and I'll run through all of that there during this interview.
But I already said it glowed green, right, but one
of the first witnesses also said it looked like a
four pointed star. They also said, now, this was seen

(17:24):
coming down over Canada, and it made a slank right
turn near Cleveland to avoid the city. Then it made
a little left turn before I got to Pittsburgh to
avoid that population center. You know, it kind of reminded
me of Flight ninety one over here in Pennsylvania. I

(17:44):
was home that day. I was having a hot tub delivered,
so I cut out and I was home and I
saw that plane come over my house. I said, Wow,
that's the lowest large plane I've ever seen. But you know,
once it got twenty miles east of me, you're out
in the woods and in the fields, and that's when
it went down or was taken down. So so that

(18:06):
kind of sounded familiar to me. But but one of
the things, though I just mentioned, was I had a
copper owl oy shield which would glow green, and it
had four controlled jets, so when it was in the
upper atmosphere, it could it could it would it would
put its jets on obviously to turn angles and stuff

(18:27):
like that. But it also had a weight and balance
system inside that could on the way in when it
was coming down if they if they shifted the weight,
it's kind of like a surfer. It would skim off
our surface, off the air that the heavier airs, it
got lower down and it could bank. And I actually

(18:50):
found that in an Air Force manual. This guy told
me where all his resources were. I went through and
I read it, and I found that it was clear
as day they could bank, and they said they could
crash landed within one hundred yards of where they wanted.
So you know, now he's my he's got my brain
going here.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
Yeah, and we got a pause ranked there. So we'll
do that with a John Ventury and then come on back.
Author of UFOs over Pennsylvania, former multi state director with
moufon including in the state of Pennsylvania, and he's talking
about the analysis of the Kecksburg UFO incident of nineteen
sixty five. I'm Jeremy Scott. Into the Pirubnormal.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Pirubnormal News. I'm George Henry. NASA is working to restore
contact with one of its most advanced interplanetary satellites, or Mars.
Communications have been lost with the Maven orbiter as it
passed behind the planet, which is not unexpected, but NASA
says its deep space network did not regain contact once

(20:12):
Maven re emerged. Teams are now investigating the anomaly. Maven
has been in orbit for eleven years, studying how Mars
atmosphere has changed over time and how it interacts with
solar winds. The satellite also serves as a vital communications
relay for missions on the surface, including the Perseverance and

(20:32):
Curiosity rovers. Here pair of normal news every hour on
into the pair of normal.

Speaker 5 (20:48):
Okay, we're back.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
Now, this is just dance.

Speaker 6 (20:50):
We've got a report of a down plane in the
Kecksburg area.

Speaker 3 (20:54):
State reports are.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Coming in over the newswires.

Speaker 4 (20:57):
We interrupt this Potgrave for a special views full of
dining and a brilliant fiery object that was seen by
multitudes of white and eye on seeing the streak in
the sky and heard it on the radio.

Speaker 6 (21:07):
It's a very large egg corn shaped object.

Speaker 4 (21:11):
Object object.

Speaker 5 (21:15):
The truth is far more abnormal than we want to believe.
Your head is somewhere between abnormal and arnormal, into the paratnormal.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
I'm Jeremy Stun talking with John Ventry tonight, Formacy director
for Pennsylvania mufon about the Kenxburg nineteen sixty five incident.
A re analysis, maybe an AHA moment that comes in
twenty fifteen, contacted by a gentleman who has worked in

(21:51):
the nuclear field by the name of Owen Eichler. Please continue,
You're eventually open to the possibility that what he is describing,
which is that there was this spy capsule that crash
and people mistook for this acorn looking alien like UFO.

Speaker 4 (22:10):
Yeah, well yeah, So what we he came up with
is they we started using these ge Mark two satellites
and they replaced the when Gary Powers got caught by
the Russians, the YouTube spy plane. They had to replace
it with something that we could spy on Russia. So

(22:32):
we out of Johnson Island in the South Pacific. We
were launching these satellites. They were pulling launchers. They went
over the North Fall. Then it was timed obviously to
go over Russia. The sites they wanted a photograph. It
had a window and a camera system, so it would photographs,
come back around and then over the Pacific it would

(22:54):
eject the camera system. It had a parachute would come down.
They would get picked up by whatever vessel was out there.
Hundreds of these were launched. They were used to spy
on Russia. Now some are some orbital launchers, some are
orbital launchers. There's still some in space right now, you know,

(23:15):
at that forty six thousand mile level, like the height
of satellites. But you know, the funny thing, the side
note on this was the ones that did come down
were timed to release the camera system and then crash
land into the Pacific. And these things had atomic generators
on them. So there are hundreds of these on the

(23:37):
ocean floor in the Pacific with a atomic generator that's
maybe even leaking at this point, but you know that
never came up in any of this discussion, you know,
with this device. But this is clearly what was used
to replace the gall the YouTube spyplane, and that information

(23:58):
wasn't the least in the public until nineteen ninety one.
So what we found and I actually found this going
through his research, was there was a log that showed
every launch and then they said whether it was orbital,
sub orbital, was successful, unsuccessful. Well, the December seventh launch,

(24:19):
thirty nine hours before Kesburg, immediately went an eighth of
a mile off off line, so they knew it was
a miss. You know, it was a mistake when they
launched it. It's not gonna do it's gonna miss Rusher,
it's gonna miss the sites. And it well, you know,
it was gone an eighth of a mile and then

(24:39):
it makes two rotations, three rotations around the Earth. And
I believe, we believed that was the one that came
down in Kecksburg. And like I said, there were some
out there. Matter of fact, one of the Gemini capsules,
like I just mentioned that the Bigdivot was on that

(25:00):
took I think forty three hours to come down. So
this this one at thirty nine hours is very feasible. Now,
that same night, there was a meteor that came down
over Canada and they're actually over Detroit. Well went over
Canada when what came over Detroit, but not really headed
towards Textsburgh. So you know, right away people the military

(25:23):
will jump on the media it was a media there
was a meteor that night, but that's not what it was.
And you know, I wish you could see my PowerPoint
presentation on this, because I have graphics on all of
this that really, you know, a picture's worth a thousand words.
So you know, I'm looking right now at a picture
of it. It shows the camera system, all of that,

(25:45):
the weight and balance system, an atomic power source on
it to echeck the camera, and you know, I guess
there were all the things that they that reason why
they needed an atomic generator. But that's what was in it,
you know, so so well known to the case. There
was only one notarized drawing of the text of the capsule,

(26:10):
Kecksburgh capsule being put on an army flatbed and this guy,
Jerry Bedders drew it, you know, and you know here
it says they drove it out of the woods. And
I've seen many army trucks. This one had a white
star on the sides. I remember very clearly. I would
swear on the Bible and take a light detective test.

(26:33):
So so what I have in my presentations a picture
of the gene Mark two satellite in a holding pod,
and then I have the capsule on the flatbed, and
they look exactly the same, you know, exactly the same.
So one of the things though, was people said, oh
it was Cosmos ninety six. The Russians had launched Cosmos

(26:56):
ninety six. You know, that same time frame, But the
Russian said they believed something kit Cosmos ninety six knocked
it out of the sky and it went crashing into
the deep woods of Ketsburg of Canada somewhere, and you know,
burned up and crashed landed somewhere over Canada. So I

(27:19):
kind of wonder, you know, and I don't I don't
have a degree in physics, but you know, could that
launch have hit the Cosmos ninety six path It just
had a clip that can take it down, you know.
But people said, well, it's Cosmos ninety six. As a
matter of fact, we get a little deeper into this,
we located the army officer in charge of this, and

(27:40):
I'll get to that, but he was told by the
army it was Cosmos ninety six. But here's the thing.
I'm looking at a picture of Cosmos ninety six, right,
it's nine feet by fourteen feet. It looks like you're
water heater, That's what it looks like. Doesn't look anything
like the object that land in Kekesburg, the drawing or

(28:02):
the gene Mark two re entry vehicle. So but it
does look like the Nazi bell. In two thousand, igor
Kowski of Poland said that the Nazis were working on
anti gravity and the time machine by spinning and compressing
red mercury, and it looks exactly like when he landed

(28:24):
in Kekesburg, and looks like the spy satellite, So that
one's a good possibility. I don't know if I had
a top an ye shield to globe green though. So
they kept this spy satellite thing quiet until nineteen ninety one.
And you know, we believe this December seventh launch was

(28:45):
the one that landed there. So here's the other stuff
that you know, when you dig into these cases, there's
so many things that don't make any sense. You know,
Canada absolutely tracked this on radar. The US does says
they didn't. They didn't track anything on radar because it
was a a media right, so you were supposed to

(29:07):
believe that that Canada attracted, but the US didn't track.
And so the Russians could launch a pole of missile,
you know, into Pennsylvania or anywhere in Chicago, we wouldn't
know it's coming.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
All right, We're talking about Keckxsburg tonight with John Ventry.
I'm Jeremy Scott. Somewhere between the paranormal and the abnormal will.

Speaker 7 (29:26):
Be right back.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
Into the param.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
We're revisiting one of the all time classic UFO cases Caacksburg, Pennsylvania,
where this object that many say, we're shaped like an acorn,
multi colored, made several turns and then came down into
the woods. The former state director for MOUFON in Pennsylvania,
John Ventry, is with us tonight, author of UFO, is

(30:21):
over Pennsylvania with an alternative theory. So again, this object
was US tech.

Speaker 4 (30:32):
The g Mark two reentry vehicle was US and it
was used to spy on this on Soviet.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
Union and there may have been a collision with a
Soviet Yeah.

Speaker 4 (30:44):
Yeah, the Cosmos ninety six, which is if you asked
a lot of people you know you are around here happening,
will tell you it was the UFO and Halfen and
I'll tell you it was Cosmos ninety six until I
introduced this and theory with Owen. But we'll get to that.
Let's take us now to the woods. So there's one
aspect here that we can't explain, and that's that a

(31:06):
couple of the witnesses said that when it got low,
you know, maybe five hundred feet or so over by Kexberg,
the locals there said it made like a U turn
and then crashed. So the gene Mark two re entry
vehicle can't do that. It can bank, like I said,

(31:26):
and they could have a crash land within one hundred
yards to where they want, but it can't make a
U turn. So I don't know if that's accurate, but
I know that area. It's old woods. I don't know
what the point would be to make a U turn
to crash. I think you would just let a crash
into the woods. You know, it really wouldn't have made

(31:48):
any sense to do that.

Speaker 3 (31:50):
I mean, would it have lessened the blow?

Speaker 4 (31:53):
Well maybe maybe it would be more of a controlled
landing and slow it down a little bit. That's possible,
but we can't mike the art theory. Don't explain that
part of it. So you know, we explained about eighty
percent of it. But it makes a lot of sense.
And I gave this presentation in April here right here
at the college, eight miles from Texpert and I told

(32:16):
the people are at the bat you're not going to
like this presentation, but appreciate the research and the logic
and the possibilities, because there's only four possibilities for it,
and I knock it down to three possibilities. You know,
it's not a meteor, I could say it that much.
So now they're in the woods and the locals are

(32:38):
swarming trying to get to it because they want to
see what it is, you know. And what they what
they say was they saw the Army Air Force and
NASSA responded within forty minutes on the Project Moondust protocols,
they were there, so they saw all these people there
within forty minutes, and Nike Missile Base which would be

(33:03):
maybe thirty miles away, so they from there, they could
have brought those people in about forty minutes to Textpert.
So what people described was that there was a blue
arcing in the woods and they saw four massive technicians
in the full body suits and masks and everything carrying

(33:26):
a box into the woods. Now what we believed was
they were carrying a lead box and they cut the
satellite open to get the etomic reactor out of it
because they couldn't have radiation leaking as they drive down
the Pennsylvania Turnpike. So, I mean, it makes a lot

(33:46):
of sense. That's exactly what they were doing. The blue arcing,
you know, they were cutting it open, and it fits
what the texts and the box that they were carrying. Now,
we got some pictures of this satellite. It does have
markings around the base, and I'll get to some of

(34:06):
the witnesses. I'm looking at another picture right now. When
Unsolved Mysteries came to town, I don't know when that
was nineteen ninety one, they reconstructed what the people said.
And again I got the newspaper picture of it laying
on its side, and I have a picture of the
satellite in the holding thing. It looks exactly like it.

(34:27):
It's like a picture's worth a thousand words. And I
got a picture of you know, it's kind of stage
military with the one that they created, and what it
looks like looks very similar. But here's one of the things.
A couple of the witnesses said that the markings on it,
what they clearly saw was a five pointed star. Okay,

(34:52):
So you know, we said, okay, well, why would aliens
use a five pointed star? So we looked and well,
low and behold, our army and air force both use
a five pointed star with a circle in the middle.
That's their symbols. So then you know, I want to
step further. And it was Jim Romansky who described the

(35:16):
five pointed star, and they created what these symbols look like.
It's like they just grew them out on a long
strip and there it is right there with a circle
in the middle. Looks just like our military's star. So
I took a look at Voyager. You remember when we
sent that disc out, the boat disc. They just sent

(35:36):
it into space. Well, we show our Sun and Earth,
you know, solar system. So how did they show our sun. Well,
it was a little tiny dot with straight lines coming
out like sun rays, you know. And another example of
a of a sun would be a round circle again
with with you know, line, this typical symbol with some

(35:58):
lines coming out from but it's not a five pointed star.
The five pointed star is our military's symbol. So another
thing that came up was, you know, some people said
this thing was big. Others said it was the size
of light, too small, like two suitcases sitting on the flatbed.
So I looked up in nineteen sixty nine, what was

(36:20):
the width of a flatbed and they were seven feet wide.
Today they're seven and a half feet wide, But back
then it was seven feet wide. Well, the reentry vehicle
was five and a half feet wide five and a
half feet high. That fits perfectly on it. And honestly,
from however fifty feet away that sitting on it is

(36:41):
not going to look very big. Now, one of the
things from Manski. He was one of the first ones there,
and my guess is he reached out to touch it,
or at least see if it was hot or or whatever.
And if it wasn't still steaming hot, he may have
even touched it. It was form I don't know, But
what happened was years later he got hand cancer. I mean,

(37:06):
I never heard anybody getting hand cancer. He got hand cancer.
So again I'm supposing that, you know, just it's typical
for humans. You know, we see a nice painting, we
want to touch it. You know, did he reach out
to it? But he was the first person on the
scene there, So you know, we're saying that this was

(37:26):
a covered up, you know, spy program. We couldn't let
the Russians know there. We had to avoid a Radiationally clearly,
NASA led about the military response. They said only four
people showed up, but you know, the witnesses said they
had to be twenty five people plus all these other
NASA and Air Force people. They claimed they didn't track

(37:49):
it on radar, but got there and for in within
forty minutes. And I've never heard of a media having
all of this type of response to it. So really
you get down to is it a meteor? Well, you know,
because the response was too large for me, it was
a UFO possibly Cosmos ninety six. Now the shape was

(38:13):
totally wrong. Nazi bell. Nazi Bell was much larger than
either of these objects what they would described as. But
it's the right shape, but it's much larger, you know.
I think maybe when I told you was nine by fourteen,
I think that was the size of the Nazi Bell

(38:33):
was about twice the size of what people said they
saw so once in a US spy satellite, And I
think the stuff I'm putting together here makes you kind
of think that it probably was. So then, actually, if
I wrote this thing, we came across Program four three
seven in nineteen sixty four, a year before Textbert and

(38:54):
quote it says that we're they're going to launch satellites
to keep the US involved about soviets. That's the quote
from Project for thirty seven. The year before Xsburgh. So
and we know they were clearly launching these satellites to
take pictures. So again there's another point that maybe confirms this.

(39:17):
So you know along the way we ten years ago,
we put this all together, we sent it to the
local newspapers and move On, move On made it the
front cover of the journal has the top five UFO
CA spin solved was Kexsburgh a gi mark you reintri

(39:39):
vehicle And they took our write up and they put
it there, and the Pittsburgh Post Gazette they also put
it in the front page of their Living section. But
what the reporter did was he sent it. He was
a veteran. He sent it to Stars and Stripes, which
is the military website locally right here where Kexborok is

(40:03):
and I am. The Tribune Review newspaper refused to publish
it and they said it would harm the Kexburgh fire departments.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
Interesting censorship of an alternative theory on the Kexsburg incident,
A sixty year UFO mystery. Talking with John ventory.

Speaker 5 (40:23):
Follow and like into the pair of normal On social media,
we are on Facebook, x threads, Instagram, and busky.

Speaker 4 (40:40):
There's a parallel universe.

Speaker 6 (40:43):
Fail that separation, while we received two reality home of
the game and the true we know, into the pair,

(41:05):
into the paved, into the para.

Speaker 7 (41:23):
From the cold dark depths of a secret dungeon somewhere
deep in the remote Pacific Northwest, you're traveling to be
a par with a Jeraldy Scott.

Speaker 3 (41:34):
I mean, one of the cool things about discussing ulfos
and famous cases like the Kecksburg incident is that they're unidentified.
And that's what we have to keep in mind here.
Some of these could be our craft, some of them
could be their craft. By there, I mean foreign our adversaries.

(41:56):
They could be extra terrest real craft. But maybe there
is a I guess, more mundane explanation or a boring,
more boring explanation. For some they don't want to sit
through it. They want to think a UFO's alien spacecraft,

(42:17):
visitors from outer space, and if they're presented with anything
but that, there's obviously resistance that individuals have faced throughout
the years for trying to bring this information forth, and
it does sound like John Ventry in the circulation of
his research along with Owen Eichler was met with some

(42:39):
of this by publications who just didn't want to hear it,
didn't want to publish it.

Speaker 4 (42:45):
And you know, I again sent that out to every
news agency in Pennsylvania and as far as I know,
not one covenant. You know, I sent that out a
couple of weeks ago. I said, here, this local interest,
you may want to publish this. Not even the Keetxsburgh Post.
Is that none of them covered the Kexsburg story. You know,
it's kind of a shame, you know. But you know,

(43:06):
it's like when you look at the news and politics
and even a lot of the UFO field now it's
all like spin. It's you know, do you believe everything
that they tell you in the news? You know, you know,
because I you know, I've been to cities and I
don't see the things they show you, you know, on

(43:29):
the news on thearification, I'm not seeing the homeless people
laying around. I'm not seeing the crime and the riot.
You know, so how much other they take, you know,
something that happened small and they turn it into something
you know, it's just tremendous and uh, you know, and
I think even you know it's going on. We can
talk about comrecial hearings when I'm done with this, but

(43:51):
even that is so spun you can't even believe what's
going on with Louel Azando and and the movie he
released and all of that. But let's continue with this.
So I mentioned that the was the nineteen fifty eighth Pioneer.
One was launched at seventy one miles high and our
satellites are at forty six miles high. So and it

(44:15):
took forty three hours to come down. So I'm looking
at the log right now, and on the December seventh one,
and we calculated from the time of the launch with
the change in time, you know, because you're out six
hours to Hawaii, it would have been thirty nine hours

(44:36):
to crash. And the funny thing is then on the
ninth they launched another one, So the seventh was you know,
went offline immediately. So on two days later, on the ninth,
they launched another one that came down on the eleventh.
So again there's proof that it took two days for

(44:59):
these things to come down, and maybe that is the norm,
even on the ones that let you know, the parachute
with the camera system, they would crash and they meant
to only be up to two days. Now, the interesting
thing too with these Mark two re entry vehicles is
they were originally designed to carry a small nuclear weapon,

(45:24):
and these ones that were used to spy on Russia,
they were originally sent to England, you know, to one
of our bases there in England, like Rentless Him, you know,
the base that we have there. But so you would
even think that between being made here, sent to England,
coming back reused as re entry vehicles, some sort of

(45:47):
markings would have been put on the base of it,
you know. But there was a nineteen sixty three test
ban treaty, you know, the not to I guess use
nukes from space. But the MK two was absolutely made
to deliver nukes in them, you know, we never did
use it for that. So one of the things that

(46:08):
happened was and I'm so glad that that reporter from
the Pittsburgh Post Gazette sent it to the military website.
A couple of months later, we get a lead. So
this guy from Maine contacts me and he says, you know,
I saw the thing on the military website, etc. And

(46:30):
the story and he says, I know exactly who was
in charge of the Ketsburgh investigation. Was our neighbor for
years as we were kids, he would tell us how
he was in charge of Ketsburg and how they went
in and they recovered it and all of that. His
name was Army Lieutenant Colonel Gordon h Rawson and he

(46:53):
lives up in Maine. I somehow, thinking Paris, Maine comes
to mind. I don't have that in my notes right now.
But he was told that it was the Soviet satellite
that crashed, and he was so concerned about and he
told this to the neighbors, was that he was so

(47:13):
concerned about an international incident like Gary Powers because that
had just happened a couple of years earlier. That he said,
when the whole thing was said and done, he destroyed
the box of evidence. And you know it fits perfectly
because Unsolved Mystery sci Fi Channel Leslie Keene. You know,
they sued the Sci Fi Channel to find the box

(47:36):
and the military NASA said, well, we can't find it.
We don't know where it is. You know, Stan Gordon,
none of these people ever located, well, the witness, but
they didn't locate the box, either of the of the evidence.
But we did we found out who this guy was.
Gordon h Rowson, Lieutenant Army Lieutenant Colonel. I think that's huge,

(47:58):
you know, kind of it makes me laugh because the
first TV episode I was in UFOs over Earth. The
director of that was the director of Unsolved Mysteries. So
I contacted him earlier in the year and he's doing
the new Unsolved Mysteries for Netflix and I said, hey,
I solved your Kecksburg and I sent them everything. He goes,

(48:20):
this is fantastic. He said, let me pitch it to
them for an episode. And he comes back and he
tells me, we're only doing true crime dramas, We're not
doing the UFO stuff anymore. And some people told me
some of the episodes he did on Unsolved Mysteries, he
didn't really stick to what the people said and they

(48:41):
were upset one threat to pursue him. So I think
Netflix just said were staying away from the UFO stuff,
just to crime dramas, you know. So another oddity, you know,
when you look at this whole thing, was the reporter
involved in nineteen sixty nine was John Murphy with the
local newspaper here and he was visited, you know, men

(49:05):
in black. Two guys threatened him, took all his evidence,
his pictures, what he was going. He was getting ready
to go on air and make a broadcast. They took
everything and said this is what you're going to say.
He actually was very depressed after that. You know, I
think he ended up just leaving the whole field of
a newspaper reporting and everything. But he's he gets hit

(49:27):
by a car and killed in nineteen sixty nine right
after this, so you know, it's like you got that
man in black thing to this right. So then the
guy who made the notarace drawing, Jerry Patters, he's down
maybe about twenty miles south to here in two thousand
and seven. He gets hit by a truck and gets killed.

(49:48):
So you guys, like the reporter and the main guy
who drew it, you know notre ice statement picture, both
get run over and killed, kind of like John Mack
when you in London. He got hit, he's killed. So
you know that's that's that's a mystery in itself. So
I actually told the guy from Unsolved Mysteries, let's do

(50:08):
that part of it. Then why did these two guys
get killed because they.

Speaker 3 (50:12):
Didn't want to They didn't want to hear it. I
suspect more to come with John Ventury Tonight somewhere between
the paranormal and the abnormal talking about the Kexpert nineteen
sixty five UFO crash or was it an IFO.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
Into the paradormal pair?

Speaker 3 (50:54):
IFO would be an identified flying object. I mean, why
would the military show up in such force if this
was just the re entry vehicle, If this was just
the spy capsule. Talking with a John Ventry Tonight is
book UFOs over Pennsylvania and also former Pennsylvania State director

(51:15):
for the Mutual UFO Network, I mean, why was why
were these armed military personnel, twenty to twenty five armed
individuals keeping people out of the area.

Speaker 4 (51:28):
Yeah, well, you could not allow the Russians, the Soviets
to know about this program. They never knew that we
were spying on them launching these capsules until nineteen ninety
one when they released the information that that's how we
were were spying on them. So it was imperative that
the military get in there, get this thing, and it

(51:50):
had that atomic generator on it, and they had to
secure event. But there was no way they were going
to let the let it out that we're spying and
have an international incident. And that was the reason why
the guy in charge of the investigation said, when it
was said and done and it was all, you know,
he went back, he took the evidence box and he
destroyed it and he didn't want anything known about this

(52:12):
that the Russians could start a war with us. So,
you know, recently I was looking. I was I listened
to Stevin Greer's review of that new movie that came
out that discribed.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
The age of disclosure Agent Disclosure.

Speaker 4 (52:27):
There's one line in there that applies to this is
he said that, you know, that movie doesn't talk anything
about our military and what we have, but he said,
eighty percent of all the UFO sidings are man made.
There is for another native, but mostly hours, you know,
and that kind of goes hand in hand with this.
So so you know, I went looking for more what

(52:49):
the CIA. There's the CIA hasn't really studies and everything
like that. And one of the couple of statements they
made was, rather than acknowledging the existence of the top
secret flights, the Air Force decided to put out false
cover stories. That's what the CIA studies said, and they
said over half of all the UFERL reports from the

(53:10):
late fifties through the sixties were reconnaissance flights, you know,
over the US. Again, the CIA said that this led
the air Force to make misleading and deceptive statements to
the public in order to all public fears and protect
an extraordinarily sensitive national security project, and that's these capsules.

(53:33):
They were not going to let the Soviets know we were
doing this. This was from a study called CIA's Role
in the Study of UFOs nineteen forty seven to nineteen ninety. So,
you know, summon a little bit of because is still
a little more I want to go over the new evidence. Basically,
you know, Canada says they tracted We did well, we

(53:56):
knew it was ours and we had to attract it
because I'm military. Showed up twenty minutes after it crash.
The full point at Star was the four jets on it.
They were still on while it was coming down. The
glowing green was the copper alloy eat shield which would
glow green. You know, it made slight turns over around
Cleveland and Pittsburgh. Well, it had a weight and balance

(54:18):
system absolutely capable of doing that. This one eighty turn
it made before crashing. Wellether that's a perception issue, you know,
the re entry veal could not do that at all.
Those the military presence came from the NIKE site twenty
five miles away NASA wearing these big white bodysuits with masks,

(54:43):
carrying a large box. That's because the satellite had antomic
generator in it. The blue arking in the woods. They
were cutting it out to get to it, and that's
exactly what would have been seen. And the cone shaped
object black betted out. Every fed is notarized, boring absolutely
marked batches the ge Mark two spice satellite. So there's

(55:06):
one of the piece of evidence here that you know,
I can't explain. But as the story grew over time,
which most Dan Gordon's stories do, it was later said
that you had this brick guy delivery guy at right
Pattison Air Force Base, and that's where it was taken

(55:27):
because they from here, they would have got our route
thirty one to the Turnpike and headed to Ohio, actually
not the Turnpike, route seventy probably to Ohio. This this
guy is delivering bricks and he says that at right
Pattison and there's nobody around, so he goes wandering around.
It was like he resisted bricks and he walks into

(55:49):
a room and there's something on a gurney covered. It
looked like some sort of lizard thing with three fingers.
Said the arm was was hanging off, and he sees
the large but here's the thing. He said, it was
buried the large capsule of the UFO more like the
size of the Nazi bell, you know, fourteen feet by

(56:11):
nine feet, not the smaller object that everybody saw. So
you know, again the description doesn't match. And then he
said security catches him and they escort him out and
tell him, don't you ever talk about this again? And
he does, like later in years, I think he was
ill health, and he goes to Stay Gordon and tells

(56:33):
him this story. But you know what it brought to
mind Roswell. You know when those people there were visited about,
you know, the baby sized caskets and the nurses who
all kind of disappeared. The one, the main nurse, though,
I found she went up to Seattle and under a

(56:53):
different name and lived after her life over there. But
those people, the witnesses to Roswell, were told that desert,
it's a big desert, will bury your body out there
and nobody will ever find you but again in this instance,
they walked this guy out and tells him don't talk
about this. You know. Another important point is Project Bluebook

(57:15):
is going full steam at that time, you know, and
Project blue Book never investigated Textsberg, probably because they knew
it was a military project. They never investigated it.

Speaker 3 (57:30):
Yeah, so you think that that's telling They did it
because they knew it was ours.

Speaker 4 (57:36):
Yeah, because they knew it was ours, So they didn't
investigate it. And they investigated Presco Island, they investigated the
Sokoro incident and a lot of all the ones like.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
That, and that's why evidence was destroyed.

Speaker 4 (57:49):
Well, the evidence was destroyed because we don't want anybody
to know who was buying on Russia. And even the
CIA documents say we were trying to protect and very
important surveillance system that had to view this, and you
could not let the Russians know about that. You know.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
Yeah, so is this vehicle remotely controlled? Then there were
no U there were no humans on board.

Speaker 4 (58:15):
No, it was remotely controlled. And and that's how they
were made. You looking at my presentation, I already told
you I tried to sell this, but they wouldn't do it.
So here's a side note at Txtburgh, and it is
pretty cool. That's funny. I did so much research I
come across other stuff. If you remember Night of the
Living Dead in nineteen sixty eight, yeah, yeah, that was

(58:38):
made after Textsburgh obviously, right, nineteen sixty eight, Kexburg sixty five. Right,
But there's one scene there with the reporter and that
police guy, you know, with the shotgun. He says, well,
of venus proved fresh landed and brought a virus. I
absolutely believed that they the Kekesburg crash for that idea.

(59:03):
You know, that's what was in George Romero's mind because
he's only thirty miles away in Pittsburgh. You know, he
probably said, oh, how are we going to do the
zombie thing? Well, something crashed in Kesburg. You never said Kesburgh,
but that brought the virus in. I thought that was
pretty interesting, you know. So so you know, I got
some statements here I can run through real quick.

Speaker 3 (59:26):
Yeah, soup, let's take a break and then we'll come back.
As these are witness statements. Yeah, yeah, okay, we'll get
to those with John Ventry when we come back. Somewhere
between the paranormal and the abnormal, I'm Jeremy Scott talking
about the December ninth, nineteen sixty five Kesburg UFO incident
and crash in Pennsylvania with John Ventry. Tonight, into the

(59:48):
Pair of Normal. I'm Jeremy Scott. Into our website to
get to all of these show notes, the links to
the guests. Check out our merch and that you can
join our premium membership there as well, and join our
free new letter all at Pairdnormalradio dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
We'll be back.

Speaker 5 (01:00:11):
It's a newscast so wild you'll keep coming back for more.
Pair of Normal News with George Henry is next on
into the Pair of Normal.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
Pair of Normal News. I'm George Henry. Saving the best
per last. One of the top sky watching events of
the year is happening this weekend as the Geminid meteor
shower reaches its peak. The Geminids are considered the most
spectacular show of the year, often outperforming the popular Perseeds.
In August, the moon will be a dim crescent, creating

(01:00:50):
nearly ideal viewing conditions under dark, clear skies. As many
as one hundred and twenty to one hundred and fifty
meteors per hour could be seen, starting as early as
nine pm on Saturday until the radiant reaches its highest
point almost directly overhead around two in the morning on Sunday.
The Geminids first appeared in the mid eighteen hundreds and

(01:01:12):
are linked to asteroid thirty two hundred faith and in
the constellation Gemini. While it's said to be one of
the best meteor showers, it did not start out that way.
The shower has grown in intensity over the past century,
from just a handful of shooting stars to now hundreds.
Here parabnormal news every hour on into the para normal.

Speaker 4 (01:01:48):
That faithful night December ninth, nineteen sixty five, when some
say an unidentified flying object landed in Texsburg, Westmoreland County.

Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
Head like riding backwage, riding on stars and soorfules and
dashers and things like that.

Speaker 8 (01:02:06):
Along the road were state police and there were some
military people there and they had guns. They were keeping
people from going back into this field.

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
Was it something controlled or was it out of this world?

Speaker 5 (01:02:21):
This world hold on type you were about to land
somewhere into the fear of normal.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
Was it an alien spacecraft or was it a US
technology that was spying on the Soviets? A ge mark
two re entry vehicle. Talking with a John Ventry tonight,
you're going to go over some of the witness statements
in the Kecksburg incident case. And this would be individuals
of all stripes who were seeing this object. It was

(01:02:56):
in the afternoon, late afternoon, early evening, is that right?

Speaker 4 (01:03:00):
It was around four o'clock that it came down, so
we got almost yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm looking at outside,
so you know it's still at this time of the year. Yeah,
it's still light out at four o'clock that you could
see this thing coming down, you know. But you know
you mentioned one of my books, UFO is over Pennsylvania
that has the Ketsburg case Senate and it also has

(01:03:20):
about sixty pages that Linda Wilton Howe wrote for me
on this famous Bucks County case we had on the
other side of the state. But I've been fourteen books.
If you go to Amazon, just put my name in
John Ventry to all come up. And I wrote three
new ones this year and one last year. Actually four
books within about an eight month period. I've never done
that before. All right, let me go over some of these.

(01:03:44):
So here are statements that were made at the time
Randy Overly said it glowed green. Bob Gaddy was told
to cite maybe radioactive. John Hayes was chased out of
the woods and pulled the area. Maybe radioactive. Bill Weaver
said four guys in moonsuits carried a four by four

(01:04:07):
box into the woods. Ernie Hoffman, he said on the
flatbed it was only the size of two suitcases. John
May said twenty to twenty five military were on site
and it was blue arcing in the woods. Robert Blystone
said the military was all over the site. Larry Schneider

(01:04:30):
on military barred our access. Lilyan Hayes, this is an
interesting one. She said. The military and civilian personnel used
her house as a base point and her phone and
when the phone bill came, you know, a few weeks later,
a month later, no calls registered on the bills. They
were scrubbed from her phone bill. John Hayes said, the

(01:04:54):
Air Force a NASA, well that's the lily Son Air
Force and NASA was at the home and he saw
a massive patches on their clothing. Bill Bullybush said, it
me to turn and he saw these markings around the base.
Thought they were Egyptian looking. Jim Romansky saying thing so

(01:05:15):
Egyptian looking markings that he said looked like they were
welded on like after that the fact, and uh, he
saw a five point at star, But that matches up
to our symbols. And Jerry Venders drew that notarized sketch
in one hundred percent matches the ge mark four. And
I don't have the woman's name. I'm gonna have to

(01:05:36):
go back through my net notes. She's the one who
said it looked like a four pointed star and it
had four control jets on it. So so I mean,
that's that's basically Kecksburg. You know, it kind of pains
me to present it this way, but I think it's
the truth, and it's a good investigation. That's how you know,

(01:05:57):
moved on. We were very thorough in our investigator, and
I think, you know, it makes you think about somebody's cases.
Are they alien or they are so they embellished. But
you know, we're really out of about fifteen points. You know,
we couldn't explain to the turn and well the alien,
although nobody saw the alien at Texburg. That was a

(01:06:20):
great pattison and you don't even know if that was
the same was.

Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
There one person who saw, like, what three fingered entity
or something of that kind.

Speaker 4 (01:06:30):
Yeah, that was the drive, the brick driver at Bright Pattison.
I don't believe anybody at the site saw that. Nobody
said that. And you know, and what that also if
you remember the end of the movie War the World
when the virus, remember the virus kills the Martians and
the door the door opens and the hand drops out

(01:06:50):
of the three fingered hand. You know, it almost makes
you wonder if somebody didn't embellish that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
But because I thought somebody said they saw this scaly,
three fingered hand like entity that came out at the
top of the UFO. But who knows this story, you
know has It's kind of like the game of Telephone.
It has changed so much over the years. And wouldn't
you say that's been a problem. People have had a
hard time remembering these events sixty years ago.

Speaker 4 (01:07:17):
Now, yeah, well, I'll tell you what happened ten years ago.
I took all my notes, I just reviewed with you,
and I had already published this, and I went to
Stan Gordon's fiftieth anniversary and I stood there and I
was listening to what these same people, most of them
were there, and they might be there last night. I

(01:07:39):
didn't go to it for the sixtieth. But they were
saying the things that they didn't say originally, you know.
And I went through Stan Gordon's video and his book
and all of that, and then at one point I
raised my hand. I said, it's wait a second, guys,
you're not saying what you said, you know earlier, when

(01:07:59):
Stan made his video and wrote his book and everything.
You're saying some different things here and you're leaving out
stuff and you're adding stuff. But I could see they
turned and looked at we were big frowns on their face,
like I just punctured their balloon. So I said, okay, look,
do what you want. I'm not going to say anything else.
I didn't want to ruin it for but I felt
like I had to say something because they were not

(01:08:20):
saying the same stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:08:24):
Why is there no mention? Maybe the answer is obvious
of the Kexpert case in the Project Blue Book files.
I mean, there's other cases which aren't as well known,
aren't as much talked about as this one is.

Speaker 4 (01:08:37):
I would have to think because of the sensitivity of
being a spy satellite over Russia, they could not let
that out. They didn't even want this thing published at
all publicized, and they knew it was ours. They got
here forty minutes, but they didn't track it on radar.
But they got here in forty minutes. That's impossible. So
you know, I like to see I said, Cia said

(01:08:59):
they we had to cover up a highly sensitive surveillance system,
and that's what this thing was. But if you read
all my other books, they're really cool and a lot
of cases are proved, like the Bucks County case. We
got trace evidence and we got radar.

Speaker 3 (01:09:17):
Okay, yeah, I'm interested in some of those other cases.
Maybe we can reserve some time for that in our
in our final segment. But was there connection to Project
Moon Dust here with the Kecksburg incident?

Speaker 4 (01:09:28):
Yeah, well one does. Were protocols on how to respond
to anything that comes down from space, so they followed
those protocols and they showed up and uh, you know
that's what they were doing, you know. But how did
they know to bring NASA in with the with a
four x four box and radiation suits and all that,

(01:09:50):
because they knew it was ours, you know, in the case,
or you know, could have been alien and that would
be radioactive also, you know, but they followed moon Dust
the protocols to, I mean, and seal the area off,
get everybody out of there, and secure the item.

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
John ventory tonight on ENDO the pair of normal, I'm
Jeremy Scott. Somewhere between the paranormal and the abnormal. We
will be right back.

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
Into the pair of normal. Parador.

Speaker 3 (01:10:47):
It has been a sixty years since the Kecksburg UFO incident,
one of the all time classics in UFO history. I
really enjoyed talking about that tonight with John Ventry, former
Pennsylvania Moffons Director, multi state director with MUFON author as well,
UFOs over Pennsylvania. Dozen other books as well, not all
of them on UFO, some of them on end times

(01:11:09):
and other subjects as well. But you have investigated many
other cases throughout your years as a UFO researcher and investigator,
a couple of UFO waves as well.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:11:23):
Yeah, you know, when I had the Seven States, I
was getting an easy five hundred cases a year, ten
a week, and I had a lot of investigators. I
had forty eight in Pennsylvania, so you know, I got
the point where I was just kind of reading it
over and talking to our chief investigators and state section

(01:11:44):
directors and all of that. But now I mentioned that
Bucks County case, which landed me on the Alerton Cooper
Show and four TV series. That was a good case.
And we got the radar from the Billy Tower, and
we got trace evidence that showed born on the leaves
in this woman's backyard where she said these probes were

(01:12:06):
dropped into the tree, you know. And then I got
all of these Foyer reports telling me there's no records
to be checked, but I'm looking at but I have
the discs in my hand. They were sent to me
by the supervisor at the Philly Airport. So I mean,
it's it's a really interesting case. But you know, I

(01:12:27):
love the field and I love a good story. I
just want people to not embellish anything. And because I
think a lot of the stories. You know what I
did when I had when I was a state director
and on the board of move On, they gave me
a disc that had all the journals on the disc.
So I went back and I you know, I read
the Travis Walton case. There were things that came out

(01:12:50):
later that weren't said back then. I read the the
Stan Gordon case in nineteen seventy three in Union Town
where there was a big foot in the UFO and
they fired on the bigfoot and just disappeared and the
UFO took off. But then years later Stance says, well,

(01:13:11):
the ground was glowing and when the state troopers showed up,
he didn't have to use this flashlight. And one of
his investigators stepped into the circle because the grass was dead,
and he fell to the ground and started howling like
a wolf, and they pulled him out of the circle. Well,
none of that was in the journal article he had written,
you know, within six months of it, you know. So

(01:13:33):
it kind of it makes you wonder is this information
that comes out later or do cases grow along the way,
you know. And I just wanted to do a good
investigation and present it to the public, you know. But
you know, to me, Ketsburg, I really think it was
a spy satellite and Bucks County was absolutely good unidentified

(01:13:56):
and we got the evidence of that one.

Speaker 3 (01:13:59):
What about the wave of nineteen seventy three, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:14:03):
Well seventy three, What an interesting year that was. You know,
that clearly I would say was UFO. And if you remember,
it started down in Pasagoula, Mississippi.

Speaker 3 (01:14:16):
And I mean I mentioned that in the open before
you came on. Calvin Parker and Charlie Hixon.

Speaker 4 (01:14:22):
Yeah, absolutely so, you know, so it starts down there,
but then you drive I don't hundred miles north, three
hundred miles whatever. You're in Alabama. And you got the
other case. If you remember the photograph of the Michelin man,
it looked like a guy wrapped up in a woman
of boil or whatever. The police chief took the picture

(01:14:44):
and said that there was an alien and a craft
right the town. They went over his house, they burnt
his house down. There's the police chief and ran him
out of town, you know, for saying that an alien
came to town. But that case continued up the Mississippi River.
It made a right into Indiana. There's a number of

(01:15:08):
cases there, and then all across Pennsylvania. We got all
those cases. The one would stand Gordon. I just mentioned
where Bigfoot was seen with the UFO and then you know,
it's funny. The reporter who covered that Bucks County case
for me, I brought up seventy three to him. He
goes yah, He said, I actually did an investigation of

(01:15:31):
a couple at a drive in theater and they saw
UFOs like over the you know, they're looking at the
big white wall for the movie at the drive in theater,
and there were UFOs over the drive in. And he
actually sent me the article he had written, and he
spoke at the Philadelphia conference. But then what happened was
so it goes across the state and everywhere they went,

(01:15:51):
they were seen taking soil samples. They were grabbing animals, dogs,
pulling them into the craft, taking samples. They were the
people trying to pull them into the craft. And people
said they took like a scoop mark off their skin,
that type of thing. And then when it got done
with Pennsylvania, it made a left and it ended up

(01:16:12):
in New Hampshire, same type of activity. It lasted six
weeks in nineteen seventy three, and to me, it was
a scientific expedition to get in and get out and
get soil and animal and human samples. And I think
that's what it was.

Speaker 3 (01:16:32):
What are some of the other cases that you've investigated
throughout the state that may not be as well known.

Speaker 4 (01:16:40):
Yeah, well, you know, one of the early ones I
did when I was a field investigator and this One
guy said, you know, he was driving up Route twenty
eight and he kind of looked to his left and
he said, in the distance there was this hovering UFO,
but it kind of looked like a pin cushion with
all these multi colored lights on top. You know how

(01:17:01):
you put all your pins into a pincushion. And it
was hovering and it was like, you know, two hundred
yards away, and it was hovering in front of this
like white little house that was there. But he said,
as the road, herves and stuff, he lost sight of it.
But he ended up when he got home, he was
like ninety minutes length and he couldn't you know, he

(01:17:21):
couldn't account for that time. Another good one we did
actually nine years ago, was we did the fiftieth anniversary
of Prescou Island and we did it up in Lake
Erie at the it was the Sheridan No what's at
the convention center there. What a nice location for our conference.

(01:17:42):
And what we did was, you know, the people up
there said, come on, come up here and do it.
Do a conference. So we did and actually for three
four years they were very successful, daring about three hundred people.
So for that one in twenty sixteen. I said, okay,
you want me to do it, you go find these witnesses.
They're all in the newspaper. They're in articles that people

(01:18:04):
involved who are actually from New York, so that might
have been fifty miles away. I'm telling you they tracked
these people down because they wanted the conference, and we
did so we didn't you know. I presented what the
whole storyline, and then we had twenty people get up
and tell their story of what they saw. And you know,

(01:18:25):
in that case it was a bigfoot. I don't know
how I'll just quickly tell you what happened. Uh, these
five people from New York drive over to presscal Isisle
and they get stuck on the beach in the sand.
So two of them go to get get help and
three stay behind in the car and they see a
cop and the cop says, okay, we'll just keep going.

(01:18:48):
You can call a tow truck. And he says, I'll
go check on the other three family members. Well, in
that timeframe, these women said, you know there's some shrubbery there.
This large hair came out, was shaking the car, scratching
the car. They were his sterical, and we got two
of those people to come to the conference and testify,

(01:19:11):
you know, tell the group for what they had seen.
So then the cop here's them screaming. He starts running.
He pulls his gun out. He starts running in the sand.
He drops his gun, he leaves it, and he starts
keeps running to see what's going on. I assume he
found this gun the next day. But by the time
he got there, that bigfoot was gone. There were a

(01:19:32):
number of UFO sightings reported, you know, from that group.
So you know, that was a real interesting case. And
I hadn't intended really go back next year and do
the sixtieth anniversary, but that here, it aired just after
COVID man attendance. You know, we went from three hundred

(01:19:52):
and when we did the final conference there maybe four
years ago or three years ago, after COVID drew like
just the eight people. So you can't do that. I
can't fly people in and then take a three thousand
dollars loss, you know. But that was a good case.
The other one in the state is Carbondale, where they.

Speaker 3 (01:20:14):
Saw something a minute or so, John, go ahead, Yeah, Carbondale.

Speaker 4 (01:20:18):
I saw something crash into the lake. It was glowing.
But then Carbondale contacts me up there. We want to
do a Carbondale conference. I came up and I presented it.
And it's funny. The Chamber of Commerce guy said nothing happened.
There was nothing, and I said to him, I disagree.
Let me tell you three real points. And I said,
I did tell them with the police chief. And you

(01:20:40):
know how he had photos. He wouldn't give it to
the press. It was a whole lot of that. But yeah,
I mean, I don't do the investigations anymore. I retired
in twenty eighteen. But boy, am I writing books. I
wrote three of my best books this year.

Speaker 3 (01:20:53):
So they go to Johnventry dot com and as they say,
wherever great books are sold.

Speaker 4 (01:20:57):
Yeah, or just go to Amazon. But my name John
Ventry with V and you'll find all my books.

Speaker 3 (01:21:04):
This ventury is V E N t R E. We
will talk to you again. I hope John. Best to you.

Speaker 4 (01:21:11):
Yeah sounds good.

Speaker 3 (01:21:12):
Thanks from the cold, dark jumps of a secret dungeon
somewhere deep in the remote Pacific Northwest. Until next time.
We're tomorrow Night on Ground zero with Clyde Lewis. Jeremy's
got good night, doun Lass