October 15, 2024 • 46 mins
While an industrial engineering student at Cornell University in 1970, Ken Kunken sustained an injury that left him a quadriplegic, nearly fully paralyzed. After spending more than nine months in care, just eleven days after his release, Ken was back at school continuing his studies. He continued on with his studies, earning degrees in counseling and eventually working to be an assistant district attorney in Nassau County. Ken hasn’t let his disability stop him from achieving goals he previously had and he is now a proud husband, father, and recently authored his book “I Dream of Things That Never Were: The Ken Kunken Story.”
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Episode Transcript
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(00:16):
- Hello and welcome to Introducing Me.
I'm your host, Sarah. Istarted this podcast to get
to know other people and lifestyles while
discovering more about myself.
Each episode, I'll givea new guest a chance
to discuss their background,culture, interests,
or whatever they want to talkabout to help increase all
of our own worldviews.
Today I'd like tointroduce you to Ken Kunken.
In Ken's college years,
(00:36):
he sustained a spinal cordinjury rendering him quadriplegic
before the AmericanDisabilities Act even existed.
But he went on tocomplete multiple degrees
and became an assistant district attorney,
where recently an awardwas named after him.
Ken is a proud husband, parent, uh,
and author here to share his story today.
(00:57):
So thank you so much, Ken.
Why don't you go ahead
and tell the audience more about yourself?
- Thank you. Well, I thinkthe best place to start
is probably at my injurythat you mentioned.
On October 31st, 1970,
I was playing on the lightweightteam at Cornell University
and on a kickoff in a gameagainst Columbia University.
(01:21):
I broke my neck, making atackle during the kickoff,
and as a result, um,
what's called a C four five quadriplegic,
meaning I broke my neck between the fourth
and fifth cervical in the neck.
And as a result, I'malmost totally paralyzed.
I have just a little bitof movement in my left arm
(01:42):
and nothing in my right.
So I'm dependent on othersfor virtually every aspect
of my activities of daily living.
- So knowing that that happened,you know, in the seventies,
and you're here, you've done
so many great thing things since then.
What was, you know, thosefirst weeks and months like
(02:05):
after that injury?
- Well, obviously they were the worst
and lowest moments in my life.
I mean, I would spend nine months
and 20 days in various hospitalsand rehabilitation centers,
and I was very frustrated
because the medicalpersonnel seemed to not want
(02:28):
to answer any of my questions.
I was kept in the darkpretty much about everything.
I knew I broke my neck,
but I didn't know muchabout a spinal cord injury
or what that entailed.
And I was very worried about
what my future would look like.
And I was particularly upsetwhen I got ahold of a pamphlet
(02:52):
published by, uh, the rehabcenter that I was at that seemed
to indicate that the bestI might ever be able to do
would be to sell magazinesubscriptions over the telephone.
Now, I believe there wasstill more that I could do,
and I was determined todo as much with my life
as I possibly could.
(03:13):
So I knew that as a resultof my physical limitations,
I needed to make the mostof my mental abilities.
I knew I needed to return to school
and get the best education possible.
So 11 days after I wasdischarged from the rehab center,
I returned to Cornell University
and I resumed my studiesin industrial engineering.
(03:39):
- And so what was thatstudying like at Cornell?
How, you know,
since the American DisabilitiesAct didn't exist yet, like
what was getting around campus
and doing your schoolwork like?
- Well, Cornell was probably one
of the least accessible schools
I could have decided to go back to.
(04:00):
Um, it's on a very hillyterrain in upstate Ithaca,
New York, in addition to its cold snow,
snowy winters, virtually every one
of its buildings had steps in front of it,
and there was not one ramp orcurb cut on the entire campus.
One of the classes that I took,
(04:20):
which met three times a week,was located in a building
that had 16 steps in front of it,
and my dorm was located in a building
that had 10 steps just to get in.
So on my first day of classes,I had to be either pulled up
or bounced down close to 100 steps just
(04:42):
to attend my first day.
And to make matters worse,
because of my physical limitations,
I couldn't even take notes when I was
listening in on the lectures.
- So then without notes, uh,obviously to pass classes
and con continue going on shows your,
your mental abilities were youwere firing them, you were,
(05:05):
you were working hard for those degrees.
So what was it like getting any sort
of accommodations if they were even called
that when you were in school so
that you could pass your classes
and continue on in your education?
- You know, I, I think Cornellreally wanted to be helpful,
but they just didn't really know
(05:26):
or understand what the needsof somebody with my type
of disability had.
And neither did I, quite frankly.
I mean, I was new to being disabled
and I had just been out
of the hospital 11 dayswhen I returned to school.
So it was the classic example
of the blind leading the blind.
And by trial
(05:47):
and error, I tried to find the best way
that I could function.
And ultimately, I, I gave carbon paper
and notebook paper tofellow classmates to try
and get copies of theirnotes when I was in class.
And fortunately, mypersonal care attendants
and my fellow classmatesgave me a lot of help
(06:10):
that enabled me to continue my education.
- So then what was yourcareer and education path like
after you graduated from Cornell?
- Well, I thought
that I should continue in thearea I had been studying when
I was injured, and thatwas industrial engineering.
(06:31):
And all through my undergraduate
and high school, junior highschool, elementary school days,
my strongest area was in mathematics.
And that's why I was pursuinga career in engineering.
But I found reallyafter my injury and even
before I, I found
engineering just reallywasn't a viable field for me.
(06:54):
And after my injury, I knewthat I wanted to devote my life
and my career to helping others
and in particular, helpingthose who had disabilities
or were experiencing lifealtering diseases or problems.
So I decided to pursuea career in counseling.
And after graduating from Cornell in 1973,
(07:18):
I stayed on at Cornell
and earned a master ofarts degree in counseling
and student Personnel administration.
And I became the first quadriplegic
to ever graduate from firstCornell as an undergrad
and also Cornell as, and agraduate as a graduate student.
So I'm the firstquadriplegic to obtain both
(07:40):
of those degrees at Cornell.
And then to increase mycounseling credentials, I went
to Columbia Universitywhere I obtained a master
of education degree inpsychological counseling
and rehabilitation,
and decided to look for ajob in the rehabilitation
counseling field.
And to my dismay, no one would hire me.
(08:03):
In 19 75, 76, everyone seemed
to feel I was too disabled to work.
And in fact, I was eventurned down when I offered
to volunteer my services.
But I knew that I could work
and make a significantcontribution to some company
or organization.
So I continued my job search
(08:25):
until I finally foundone organization willing
to give me the opportunityto show what I could do.
And that was AbilitiesIncorporated, which was part of
what was then called theHuman Resources Center.
And it's now called the Viscardi Center
after its founder Dr. Henry Viscardi Jr.
And they're located inAlbertson Long Island.
(08:48):
And I worked there as a vocationalrehabilitation counselor,
and I loved the workthat I was doing there
and really appreciated thatopportunity to help others
who had physical disabilities.
And it made me feel so muchbetter about myself being able
to work and to help others
(09:08):
after me being therecipient of so much help.
- And so, you know, you finallygot this job, it, it really,
you know, boosted yourself,gave you these opportunities
and these chances to really show like,
I earned those degrees,like I, I am employable.
Where did your career then go, um,
(09:32):
and how long were you there doing that
before you decided to continue on?
- Well, I worked at theHuman Resources Center
for a little over two years,
and I had a lot of differentduties at the center,
but one of them was speaking before groups
and organizations concerning the topics
of non-discrimination
(09:52):
and affirmative action forpeople with disabilities.
And often after my talks,I would be asked questions,
and while I would certainly do my best
to answer those questions,I was always very careful
to caution the questionersthat they should really consult
with a lawyer about their concerns.
And I guess it didn't take long
before I decided, you know,
(10:14):
there's no reason why Icouldn't become that lawyer.
And at the time, I also hadan older brother named Steve
who was working as a lawyer for, uh,
as a public defender on Long Island.
And I used to watch him in court as well.
And between watching my brother
and doing these talks at theViscardi Center, I decided
(10:35):
that law looked like avery viable field for me.
So I left the center
and went to HofstraUniversity School of Law.
- And so then what was itlike having a career in law
as a quadriplegic?
- Well, obviously itposed a lot of challenges,
(10:56):
but I, you know, I was fortunatethat I did an internship
at the Nassau CountyDistrict Attorney's Office.
And while I was workingthere, I found a new way
that I could help peopleand serve the community.
And I knew that I wanted to devote my life
and my career to helping others.
And working at the DistrictAttorney's Office seemed like
(11:16):
the perfect place for me to do it.
But it was really difficult here.
I was a trial attorney,
and I didn't know of anyother trial attorneys, uh,
who were quadriplegics
and certainly I didn't know of any
who were assistant district attorneys.
So it was very challengingto go to court and try
and, uh, do a, do atrial, a criminal trial.
(11:40):
When it was difficult for me to take notes
or even turn pages, I, what I used
to do is copy the case files punch,
have somebody punch holes at them
and put 'em in a three ring notebook.
And with braces and splintswith a lot of difficulty,
I could turn pagers.
And it was very difficultand challenging to try
(12:02):
and keep all the evidence andthe notes straight in my mind.
And a lot of it was basicallyrelying on my memory.
So it posed a lot of challenges,
but I worked really hard
to become a competentassistant district attorney.
- And so then, you know,you've had this career
as an assistant district attorney.
(12:25):
What were some
of your biggest highlightsthroughout that career?
- Well, you know, I would say initially
when I first started doingtrials in our district court
bureau, I was approached by adefense attorney who told me
that he overheard some
of the prisoners talking about me in the
pens behind the courtroom.
(12:46):
And the prisoners were sayingthat I was a really tough ADA
and they hoped they didn'tget the guy in the wheelchair
as their prosecutor.
So that was a big boost whenI heard even the prisoners
seemed to be afraid of gettingthe guy in the wheelchair
as their prosecutor.
And when I'd go to court,I had a lot of help
(13:06):
and support from the court officers.
They were really helpful intrying to get me, uh, to be able
to function as best I could.
And my first problem was Ifound I couldn't even fit
through the swingingdoorways in the courtroom.
They were too narrow to allow me to pass
through in my electric wheelchair.
(13:26):
So that was the firstobstacle that I faced.
But with some minormodifications to the courtrooms,
I was able to function and gobefore a judge and the jury
and present a case anddo direct examinations
and cross examinations andadmit items into evidence.
And I found, once I started talking,
(13:50):
most jurors treated me just like they
would any other attorney.
And I was very pleased tofind out from them afterwards
that once I started talking,
they completely forgot about the fact
that I was in a wheelchair.
And as a result, I had alengthy career as a prosecutor,
where over the course of mycareer, I tried 76 cases,
(14:14):
65 of which were felonies.
I presented 252 cases to the grand jury
and conducted 118 pretrial hearings.
So my numbers of litigationwere consistently
among the highest in my bureau,
and as a result, I waspromoted a number of times
(14:36):
where I eventually becamea Deputy Bureau chief,
where I was helping supervise
more than 25 otherassistant district attorney.
So I really enjoyed thework that I was doing
and was given so much support
and encouragement by my office, as well as
by the court officerswho actually presented me
(14:58):
with an award after Istarted working there.
So I, I very much enjoyed my career
as a prosecutor.
And when you combine my full-timework with Part-time work
that I did there, I worked inthe district attorney's office
for more than 40 years.
(15:19):
- A longstanding career withlots of great work done.
Um, and to hear how, youknow, the prisoners saw you
and how jurors saw you, youknow, shows, you know, the,
the work that you were doing
and you know, how, how you'reable to, you know, exist
and be in society trying cases.
(15:42):
So I mentioned, um,
that there was an award named after you.
Do you wanna share a little bit about what
that was like having that happen?
- Oh, I, I was very thrilled
and surprised with whenI decided to retire.
The district attorneyof Nassau County decided
to name an award after me
(16:03):
that's given annuallythe Kenneth J Kunken award
in recognition of my devotionto the work, my experience
as a trial attorney andmy attitude, perseverance,
and hard work in the office.
And that is the only awardthe district attorney's office
gives out on an annual basis.
(16:25):
And they named it after me,the guy in the wheelchair,
because they felt that I was making, uh,
an enormous impression andinfluence on the other ADAs
and the public in general.
And I might add that in theDistrict Attorney's office,
when you leave the job, you usually go
through an exit interview.
(16:46):
And during that exitinterview, you're asked,
what were the best parts of the job
and what parts do you feelcould be improved upon?
And on a number of occasions,I was told that ADAs had said
the best part of their job wasmeeting, getting to know me
and working with me.
(17:07):
And the reason why I want tocomment on that is not to boast
or brag, but it's
because the ADAs were reallyreferring to meeting, getting
to know and working with somebody
who had a severe disability.
Because unless you had a relativewith a severe disability,
very few people come intodaily contact with somebody
(17:29):
with a disability,particularly in the workplace.
And one of the things ofcourse they commented on was
that I usually had a positive attitude
and a pleasant demeanor,
but I think what was maybemost important to them was
that I was a hard worker
and it didn't involve anyadditional work for them
(17:50):
to have me working in the office.
In fact, I was often producing more work
and doing more than many of my colleagues.
- Yes, that sounds like a, anaward that was well deserved
to be, to be named after you.
Um, and you can hear asyou talk about your career
and your life experiences, just like
(18:10):
how much joy you would've broughtinto those working spaces.
Now you've referred to yourselfat least once as you know,
the guy in the wheelchair.
So, and even just going into the courtroom
for the first time that thedoors weren't wide enough,
what have you seen over time, uh,
(18:31):
in accommodations, whether thatyou've experienced directly
or you've seen for other folks?
- Well, when I was firstinjured and went back to school,
and even later on the job
before the Americans with Disabilities at
very few facilities wereactually wheelchair accessible.
So it was not unusual when Iwent out anywhere that I saw,
(18:56):
I was the only person thatI would see in a wheelchair
and especially in an electric wheelchair,
but she just couldn't get around.
So wherever I went, I wasusually stared at by people
because it was so unusual
to see somebody in mycondition out in public.
If I went to a restaurant,
(19:16):
somebody would be feeding me lunch
or dinner, I would constantly be stared at
by everybody in the restaurant.
If I went to a movie theateror to a Broadway show
or virtually anywhere,wherever I went, I seemed
to attract attention, unwantedattention I might add,
because I just wanted reallyto blend in with the crowd.
(19:39):
But wherever I went, Iwas constantly stared at.
Now thanks to the Americanswith Disabilities Act,
it is far more common to seepeople with all different types
of disabilities out inpublic and in the workplace.
And it is great to see thechanges that have evolved
as a result of that.
(20:00):
- Definitely. So,
because you know, you, you'velived through, you know,
the act even just coming to fruition,
how were you like able to stay positive
and continue going out whenyou were getting this unwanted
attention and not just,oh, I could just stay home
(20:23):
and not get this unwanted attention?
- You know, I was really fortunate
that I've had a very supportive family
and a very supportive groupof friends who encouraged me
and helped motivate meevery step of the way.
And they helped me so much that
after a while I feltI'd be letting them down
(20:45):
if I didn't do everythingI could possibly do.
And without exactly sayingthe words I know, they kind
of reassured me thatthey would act as my arms
and legs to make sureI could do everything
that I wanted to do.
So when you get that type of help
and support, how could younot do as much with your life
(21:07):
as you possibly could?
- And so then what hasit been like, you know,
you've got a lot of greatfamily support, I mentioned,
you know, that you area husband and a father.
So what has that part ofyour journey been like?
- Oh, that is the best part of my journey
and there are no accomplishmentsthat I am more proud
(21:30):
of than those of being a goodhusband and a good father.
So if I could just commenton that for a minute.
You know, after my injury,I decided that I, I wanted
to do my best not
to let the injury prevent mefrom doing any of the things
that I would've wanted todo had I not been injured.
(21:50):
And that included dating likemany men I wanted to meet
and have a satisfying relationship
with the perfect woman for me.
And as you might expect, datingwhen you're a quadriplegic
and trying to impress a womanwhen you're almost totally
paralyzed poses its ownunique set of challenges.
(22:13):
But I was fortunate, it took me a while,
but I eventually met theperfect woman for me.
Her name is Anna, she'sactually sitting next
to me now to my right.
And Anna's the most incredibleperson that I've ever met.
And I guess what they saythat opposites attract, uh,
(22:33):
really holds true for us because Anna
and I are different in so many ways.
I mean, for one, Anna's19 years younger than I'm,
Anna was born and raised in Poland,
while I've spent almost myentire life on Long Island.
Anna is Catholic and I am Jewish.
Anna's over six feet tall
(22:54):
and I'm just under five foot eight.
And even shorter in the wheelchair, Anna's
a vegetarian and I love to eat meat.
And Anna's in exceptionalphysical condition,
and I'm almost totally paralyzed.
But it just seemed likea match made in heaven.
(23:15):
There was a certain magic, acertain chemistry between us
that you just can't put into words.
And in 2003, Anna and I were married.
So we've already celebratedour 21st wedding anniversary.
But it gets better becausewhen we talked about getting
married, Anna said thatshe wanted to have my baby,
(23:40):
not just a baby, my baby.
She said she wanted to see a little Kunken
running around our hall.
Now this I must say seemedimpossible at the time.
I had been paralyzedfor more than 30 years
and I was already in my fifties.
Um, but there is a saying in the military
that I've always liked,which goes the difficult,
(24:03):
we do it once, the impossibletakes a little longer.
Well, we were determined tomake the impossible happen,
and we wanted to do itsooner rather than later.
So we looked into various options,
including in vitro fertilization,
and we're very excited tolearn it still may be possible
for someone in my conditionto father a child.
(24:27):
So we pursued in vitro throughthe miracle of science.
Anna became pregnant.
And on January 24th, 2005,
I was present in the delivery room
when my wife Anna gave birth to triplets.
We have three beautiful,incredible sons, Joey, Jimmy,
(24:51):
and Timmy, who are nowsophomores at three different
colleges in upstate New York.
And I cannot be happieror more proud of my wife
and children than I am today.
- Yes, it's great to hear that.
You know, one of your goals in life
(25:11):
after your injury was to notlet your injury hold you back,
um, to do these things you wanted to do.
And it sounds like trulyopposites did attract, um, for you
to have the family you have now.
Um, but it sounds like,you know, with the power
of science things, thingsthat came to fruition,
(25:35):
and so what, you know, hasit been like, you know,
raising now collegiate boys, um, and,
and navigating with not onebut three babies in the home?
- It's been the most exciting adventure
and journey I could possibly ever imagine.
(25:55):
It, it is just, it's thebest part of my life,
morning, noon, and night to wake up
and see my incredibleboys, to see my loving wife
and know that we worktogether as a team to try
and accomplish whatever itis any one of us needs to do.
And I might add that myboys have been very helpful
(26:18):
growing up and helpingme every way they could.
Whether it be they mayhelp feed me or open a door
or turn on a light, oreven when we go places
before the Americans withdisabilities, well, even
after that, they would go and look
and say, dad, they have a rampthere, you could go there.
And they would check withoutme even asking them that.
(26:41):
And they've been just wonderful,wonderful children, uh,
and very respectful and very, very bright.
In fact, they teach mehow to use the computer.
Um, they're so muchbetter at it than I am.
So it's just been a wonderful,
uh, journey.
(27:03):
And I might add, you know, I,I still have a lot of problems
with my blood pressure.
And one day when the boyswere really little, just
to give you a short story, I,I went, uh, to the local stop
and shop supermarket.
We went there alone, just myson Joey, who was probably,
(27:23):
I don't know, maybe fiveor six at the time, um, uh,
may maybe a little older,maybe close to nine.
And we went alone. We walked there
and while I was there, I got very dizzy
and I knew I needed, uh,Joey to lift up my legs
to help get the bloodto flow back to my head.
(27:45):
And Joey did it withouthesitation, didn't panic,
even though he knew I was in distress.
And even though a crowd was gathering,
he never asked for help.
He never cried, but he lifted up my legs
until I was feeling a little better.
He gave me a blood pressurepill to increase my pressure
and actually was so competent
(28:07):
that he made me feel better.
And just knowing that I wasin good hands when I was
with my 9-year-old son.
And that's the way my boyshave been their whole life.
I know when I'm with them I'm protected.
They protect me and help mein every way that they can.
And it's just incredible.
(28:29):
And I might add that, um,Joey is now actually going
to Cornell, my alma mater,
and he started there 50years after I graduated.
My son Joey was a freshman there.
My son Timmy, is at Syracuse University
where he's pursuing a dual major
in communications at theNewhouse School of Communications
(28:53):
and the Maxwell School of Public Affairs.
And my son James, is at theState University of Morrisville
studying renewable energy.
So the boys are atthree different colleges
but have remained veryclose with each other.
They do FaceTime calls all the time.
They visit each other in school
(29:14):
and have remained very close,
which makes me feel really, really good.
- Yeah, definitely a proud father moment.
Sounds like you've raisedsome great young men
who will hopefully haveprosperous futures.
And so why is it, youknow, that you have decided
(29:37):
to share more about yourstory to author a book
and kind of put yourself andyour life out into the world?
- You know, I, I was encouragedfor many, many years to do
inspirational, motivational talking.
And I've kind of resisted it initially
after, you know, I went toschool before I got married
(30:00):
because I kept thinking to myself
and saying, I, I didn't thinkI did anything that special.
I mean, yes, I went toschool and got some degrees
and yes, I was working,
but I know a, a lot of otherpeople have done those things.
But once my boys were bornand they're all very healthy,
(30:20):
but when, you know, triplets are born,
they're usually born prematurely
and they're in the NICU for a while.
And I could remember sittingby their incubators in the NICU
and looking at them andit was like a revelation.
It was like, whoa, this is big.
It's time for me to share my story.
(30:41):
And as a result I did a gooddeal of motivational speaking
before a lot of groups and organizations
and decided that the bestway to get my story out to
as many people as I could isto write a book about my life.
And with my wife's help, we spent a lot
of time working on it.
(31:02):
And it was published last year.
The book is called I Dreamof Things That Never Were
the Ken Kunken story.
And I've received a lot
of nice comments onpeople that have read it.
And I'd just like to add whereI got the title of my book
while I was still a patientin the rehab center,
I had the opportunity to testify
(31:24):
before United States SenateHealth Subcommittee chaired
by Senator Edward Kennedy.
And eight days after my testimony,
Senator Kennedy sent me aglass paperweight in the mail
that had an inscription on it
that he said his late brother
Robert Kennedy liked very much.
And the inscription read somemen see things as they are
(31:47):
and say why I dream ofthings that never were
and say, why not?
That's why I got the title of my book.
I Dream of Things That Never Were,
because those words have alwaysbeen very meaningful to me.
- Yes, yeah, to have that moment and,
and have that inscription, you know, given
(32:08):
to you at a young age tofigure out, you know, where,
where life is going to take you
with a title such as that.
You know, you were originallyin college for engineering,
you were good at math.
What was your original career intentions?
(32:28):
- Well, I knew that Iwanted to do something
with my math ability
'cause that was clearlywhere I was the strongest.
And in fact, uh, right
before my junior year Iactually had an interview, uh,
with an insurance companyabout becoming an actuary
where you deal a lotwith numbers and figures
and I thought that sounded like an
(32:49):
interesting career as well.
And to be an actuary, you needto take a series of exams.
And I was actually scheduledto take my first exam
on the Wednesday whenI got hurt the Saturday
before, just five days earlier.
So my career goalschanged a number of times.
I was thinking maybe Iwould teach math, you know,
(33:11):
maybe I would go intosome type of business
where I could find usefor my math ability.
But following my injury,I, I never realized that,
you know, I had theability to get up in front
of a group and speak.
You know, I always thoughtI was a bit of an introvert
before my injury.
You know, I would sit inthe back of the classroom,
(33:33):
not raise my hand and just tryand blend in with the crowd
and following my injury.
I was surprised when I was asked to speak
before a lot of different large audiences
about myself, no less.
And I think I was even moresurprised when the words came
outta my mouth and I was able to do it.
(33:55):
And I decided that, you know,
it opened a whole new field for me.
And what I really wanted todo was to work with people
and try and help them
and provide them with betterhealthcare and support.
And I felt I was beinggiven following my injury.
And as a result I pursued, uh, majors
(34:17):
where first I majored in education.
I majored in psychology
for two different degrees in counseling
and then ultimately law school.
And I'm very proud of the background I had
because I think each degreehas helped me function better
as not only a professional butjust as a person in general.
(34:39):
- Of course, they've definitely
given you this well-roundedbackground to be able to
lead the career you've led.
Um, and it sounds like, you know,
even if math was such a strongsuit, like you found passion
and goodness in thecareer that you've had,
even though there hasn'tbeen a math focus.
(35:03):
- Thank you. And as I indicatednow I've written a book
that I wanna share with peopleand it's available on Amazon,
but it's available other places as well.
And if somebody wants to purchase it,
they can go on my website,which is KenKunken.com.
And it indicates anumber of different ways
that it could be purchased,including if they wanna give it
(35:25):
as gifts, how they could buy it in bulk.
- Right. Well I'll of course make sure
to leave your websitein the description so
that people can check thatout if they're interested
in reading the book.
And of course, you know,your life may not have been,
you know, what you originally wanted,
(35:46):
but you're sharing yourstory now you've learned
so much about your life.
What would you say to somebody
who doesn't necessarily knowwhat their future looks like
or where they wanna go?
Like what sort of advice would you give
to someone who's just starting out
and trying to figure out whereshould I be in the world?
(36:10):
- Well try and explore different options.
I mean, I always indicate for anybody, try
and get the best educationpossible and never stop learning.
And getting the best educationcould involve different types
of educations, but alsostudying different subjects
because there may be an area
(36:31):
that you've never even thought about
that once you hear somebodytalking about it brings
out an interest in you.
And also just speakingto others about the type
of work they do and if youcan, to watch people on the job
and see what looks interesting.
Now, I was very fortunatethat my family was always
(36:53):
so helpful and supportive
and that's one of the reasonswhy I ended up going into law.
'cause I followed my brother,you know, into the courtroom
and observed what he did
and spoke to him quite abit about what it was like.
But speaking to others,you know, exposing yourself
(37:13):
to different areas,not ruling out anything
that you may not have considered, uh,
and being willing to actually change jobs
and career, career goals
after a while, if youfind you have a passion
for something else, um,can be really helpful.
(37:33):
And I think if you could become an intern
while you're in school,you know, to be exposed
to other jobs and getsome hands-on experience
can be real helpful as well.
I mean, I was an internat the DA's office.
I didn't know that'swhat I would like to do
until I actually was anintern and, and tried it.
(37:56):
And you know, I've tried to
supervise a lot of interns whileI worked there to give them
that experience
and expose them to whatthe field of law is like,
and to talk to them in generalabout their career goals.
I'd also, I'd just like toadd in my work at the Viscardi
(38:17):
Center, I'm now ontheir board of directors
and they help people with disabilities
receive not only education, but training
and placement help to getthem into jobs and careers.
And I'm so thankful thatI could stay involved
with helping people with disabilities
because I think employers arenow more and more realizing
(38:41):
and seeing the enormousbenefit in hiring people
with disabilities.
They're finding it justmakes good business sense
to hire a worker that'shardworking, dedicated, devoted,
loyal, who just happensto have a disability
and is doing their best tomake something of their lives.
(39:03):
- Yes, education is so important
and, you know, bringingin diverse communities
and as disability gets more recognized
and realized, like you100% can be part of society
and be part of employment,it's great to hear, you know,
have you've gotten those chances
(39:24):
to experience great working environments.
Now you're retired, so whatis retirement like for you?
- Well, it's actually been pretty busy.
I mean, in addition tonow doing these podcasts
where I've done quite anumber so far, as I indicated,
I'm on the board of directorsat the Viscardi Center
(39:46):
and trying to say actively involved
with helping otherindividuals with disabilities.
And I'm also obviously so enthused
and excited about howmy children are doing
and trying to be active intheir lives as best I can.
Um, and you know, we domost family celebrations.
(40:06):
I have a large family, wedo it here at our house.
So it's a lot of entertaining
and it's, it's just great to be involved
with a lot of peoplehelping those when I can
and just taking part in somany different activities that,
um, it brings me a lot of joy.
(40:28):
And I recently was asked to be a part
of the Cornell University Council,
so now I'm on that as well.
And in fact, I'll be goingup to Cornell, uh, in
just over a week
to take part in my firstmeeting on the Cornell
University Council.
And they're actuallygonna have a book signing
for me up there on Thursday,
(40:50):
October 17th, up at the school.
So, you know, you say I'm retired,
I think I've never been morebusy than I am right now.
- But it sounds like you'reenjoying what you're doing
and being a part of thecommunities you're in.
So it sounds like, you know,retirement's the right place
for you right now.
(41:13):
- It really is. You know,
being retired has given me theopportunity to do even more
with my life than when I wasworking at a nine to five job.
- Yes. Now,
before I start to wrap things up,
is there anything elseyou would like to share
with the listeners today?
- Well, you know, there'sso much that you can do
(41:35):
with a disability,
but the first thing I wannashare is, it is so important
to keep your hopes up.
You know, there've been so many times
where I felt people have triedto dash my hopes, you know,
following my injury.
And I think it's soimportant to encourage people
to keep hope, to keeptheir hopes alive, right?
(41:57):
And to believe in themselves,
to believe they can do anything
that they set their minds to.
And one of the things thatI try to talk about in,
in my motivational talksis it's so important
to keep expectations high.
I mean, I, it was terriblewhen I was in the rehab center
and I saw the fellow patients doing very
(42:19):
little with their lives.
And I think part of that was
because they weren't encouraged
by the medical personnel to do more.
I felt like the expectationsfor the fellow patients was
so low that people
no longer had themotivation to exceed them.
And it's, you know,
(42:40):
when you think aboutsomebody's expectations,
they can really have a strong influence on
what other people eventuallydo with their lives.
'cause people's performance often rises
and falls based upon whatothers expect of them.
So it's so important tokeep your expectations high,
and not only for others,
but for yourself as well's,an awful lot you can do
(43:04):
through hard work,determination, discipline,
perseverance, and the right attitude.
And that last trait may bethe most important one of all.
- Definitely attitude there, you know,
affects everything else.
So I think there's were somegreat words here to end on
(43:26):
and for people to think about.
So I appreciate you sharing that.
Now, at the end of all my episodes,
I do ask my guests a randomquestion that doesn't have to do
with what we've been talking about.
So my question today for you is,
what wild animal do youwish was domesticated?
- Oh boy, that's a tough one.
(43:50):
That's, that's a, that'sa tough one for me.
But you know, when,when I think of animals,
I think now I, I've beenexposed to at least seeing
support animals, animals thatare trained to help people
with disabilities.
I've seen the canine supportsystem helping train dogs
(44:12):
to help other individualswith disabilities.
I even saw a, a facilitythat helped train horses
to help train helppeople with disabilities.
And I think it is so great to see that.
I remember seeing many, manyyears ago on 60 Minutes,
them doing an episode ofTraining Monkeys to help people
(44:34):
with disabilities.
So I love the fact that more
and more you are seeinganimals serve as support,
assistance to people with disabilities.
And I think that's great tohave that symbiotic relationship
with an animal where you couldhelp each other, help both
(44:57):
do better with what they wanna do.
It keeps the animals happyand it helps people a lot.
- All right, that bringsthis episode to a close.
So of course, as Kenmentioned, his website,
his website will be inthe description if you
(45:17):
would like to connect with him.
His wife also has him on Facebook,
so if you wanna check him out on Facebook,
that link will be thereas well as an option
to connect with him.
So of course, feel freeto go check those out and
or check his book out if you'reinterested in learning more.
Of course, if you would liketo connect with the podcast,
our website is in the description as well.
It brings you to all of our past episodes,
(45:39):
resources from guests andall of the good things.
It brings you also to our social media.
We are on Facebook,Instagram, and LinkedIn.
If you'd like to go follow those pages,
that support is always appreciated.
My email address isalso in the description.
That is the best way to reach me.
If you'd like to be a guest on the show
and share your story, I'dlove to hear from you.
(45:59):
And there is a link to supportthe podcast monetarily if
you're interested in doing that as well.
So thank you so much, Ken, forspending time with me today
and to my listenersfor taking the time out
of your day to hear a new story.
Until next time, bye.
- And thank you forgiving me the opportunity
to tell my story and to shareit with all your listeners.
(46:19):
I appreciate that opportunity.
I really enjoyed meeting youand having this discussion,
and I look forward tocontinuing having a friendship
with you and with your listeners.
Thank you.
- Hello and welcome to Introducing Me.
I'm your host, Sarah. Istarted this podcast to get
to know other people and lifestyles while
discovering more about myself.
Each episode, I'll givea new guest a chance
to discuss their background,culture, interests,
or whatever they want to talkabout to help increase all
of our own worldviews.
Today I'd like tointroduce you to Ken Kunken.
In Ken's college years,
(00:36):
he sustained a spinal cordinjury rendering him quadriplegic
before the AmericanDisabilities Act even existed.
But he went on tocomplete multiple degrees
and became an assistant district attorney,
where recently an awardwas named after him.
Ken is a proud husband, parent, uh,
and author here to share his story today.
(00:57):
So thank you so much, Ken.
Why don't you go ahead
and tell the audience more about yourself?
- Thank you. Well, I thinkthe best place to start
is probably at my injurythat you mentioned.
On October 31st, 1970,
I was playing on the lightweightteam at Cornell University
and on a kickoff in a gameagainst Columbia University.
(01:21):
I broke my neck, making atackle during the kickoff,
and as a result, um,
what's called a C four five quadriplegic,
meaning I broke my neck between the fourth
and fifth cervical in the neck.
And as a result, I'malmost totally paralyzed.
I have just a little bitof movement in my left arm
(01:42):
and nothing in my right.
So I'm dependent on othersfor virtually every aspect
of my activities of daily living.
- So knowing that that happened,you know, in the seventies,
and you're here, you've done
so many great thing things since then.
What was, you know, thosefirst weeks and months like
(02:05):
after that injury?
- Well, obviously they were the worst
and lowest moments in my life.
I mean, I would spend nine months
and 20 days in various hospitalsand rehabilitation centers,
and I was very frustrated
because the medicalpersonnel seemed to not want
(02:28):
to answer any of my questions.
I was kept in the darkpretty much about everything.
I knew I broke my neck,
but I didn't know muchabout a spinal cord injury
or what that entailed.
And I was very worried about
what my future would look like.
And I was particularly upsetwhen I got ahold of a pamphlet
(02:52):
published by, uh, the rehabcenter that I was at that seemed
to indicate that the bestI might ever be able to do
would be to sell magazinesubscriptions over the telephone.
Now, I believe there wasstill more that I could do,
and I was determined todo as much with my life
as I possibly could.
(03:13):
So I knew that as a resultof my physical limitations,
I needed to make the mostof my mental abilities.
I knew I needed to return to school
and get the best education possible.
So 11 days after I wasdischarged from the rehab center,
I returned to Cornell University
and I resumed my studiesin industrial engineering.
(03:39):
- And so what was thatstudying like at Cornell?
How, you know,
since the American DisabilitiesAct didn't exist yet, like
what was getting around campus
and doing your schoolwork like?
- Well, Cornell was probably one
of the least accessible schools
I could have decided to go back to.
(04:00):
Um, it's on a very hillyterrain in upstate Ithaca,
New York, in addition to its cold snow,
snowy winters, virtually every one
of its buildings had steps in front of it,
and there was not one ramp orcurb cut on the entire campus.
One of the classes that I took,
(04:20):
which met three times a week,was located in a building
that had 16 steps in front of it,
and my dorm was located in a building
that had 10 steps just to get in.
So on my first day of classes,I had to be either pulled up
or bounced down close to 100 steps just
(04:42):
to attend my first day.
And to make matters worse,
because of my physical limitations,
I couldn't even take notes when I was
listening in on the lectures.
- So then without notes, uh,obviously to pass classes
and con continue going on shows your,
your mental abilities were youwere firing them, you were,
(05:05):
you were working hard for those degrees.
So what was it like getting any sort
of accommodations if they were even called
that when you were in school so
that you could pass your classes
and continue on in your education?
- You know, I, I think Cornellreally wanted to be helpful,
but they just didn't really know
(05:26):
or understand what the needsof somebody with my type
of disability had.
And neither did I, quite frankly.
I mean, I was new to being disabled
and I had just been out
of the hospital 11 dayswhen I returned to school.
So it was the classic example
of the blind leading the blind.
And by trial
(05:47):
and error, I tried to find the best way
that I could function.
And ultimately, I, I gave carbon paper
and notebook paper tofellow classmates to try
and get copies of theirnotes when I was in class.
And fortunately, mypersonal care attendants
and my fellow classmatesgave me a lot of help
(06:10):
that enabled me to continue my education.
- So then what was yourcareer and education path like
after you graduated from Cornell?
- Well, I thought
that I should continue in thearea I had been studying when
I was injured, and thatwas industrial engineering.
(06:31):
And all through my undergraduate
and high school, junior highschool, elementary school days,
my strongest area was in mathematics.
And that's why I was pursuinga career in engineering.
But I found reallyafter my injury and even
before I, I found
engineering just reallywasn't a viable field for me.
(06:54):
And after my injury, I knewthat I wanted to devote my life
and my career to helping others
and in particular, helpingthose who had disabilities
or were experiencing lifealtering diseases or problems.
So I decided to pursuea career in counseling.
And after graduating from Cornell in 1973,
(07:18):
I stayed on at Cornell
and earned a master ofarts degree in counseling
and student Personnel administration.
And I became the first quadriplegic
to ever graduate from firstCornell as an undergrad
and also Cornell as, and agraduate as a graduate student.
So I'm the firstquadriplegic to obtain both
(07:40):
of those degrees at Cornell.
And then to increase mycounseling credentials, I went
to Columbia Universitywhere I obtained a master
of education degree inpsychological counseling
and rehabilitation,
and decided to look for ajob in the rehabilitation
counseling field.
And to my dismay, no one would hire me.
(08:03):
In 19 75, 76, everyone seemed
to feel I was too disabled to work.
And in fact, I was eventurned down when I offered
to volunteer my services.
But I knew that I could work
and make a significantcontribution to some company
or organization.
So I continued my job search
(08:25):
until I finally foundone organization willing
to give me the opportunityto show what I could do.
And that was AbilitiesIncorporated, which was part of
what was then called theHuman Resources Center.
And it's now called the Viscardi Center
after its founder Dr. Henry Viscardi Jr.
And they're located inAlbertson Long Island.
(08:48):
And I worked there as a vocationalrehabilitation counselor,
and I loved the workthat I was doing there
and really appreciated thatopportunity to help others
who had physical disabilities.
And it made me feel so muchbetter about myself being able
to work and to help others
(09:08):
after me being therecipient of so much help.
- And so, you know, you finallygot this job, it, it really,
you know, boosted yourself,gave you these opportunities
and these chances to really show like,
I earned those degrees,like I, I am employable.
Where did your career then go, um,
(09:32):
and how long were you there doing that
before you decided to continue on?
- Well, I worked at theHuman Resources Center
for a little over two years,
and I had a lot of differentduties at the center,
but one of them was speaking before groups
and organizations concerning the topics
of non-discrimination
(09:52):
and affirmative action forpeople with disabilities.
And often after my talks,I would be asked questions,
and while I would certainly do my best
to answer those questions,I was always very careful
to caution the questionersthat they should really consult
with a lawyer about their concerns.
And I guess it didn't take long
before I decided, you know,
(10:14):
there's no reason why Icouldn't become that lawyer.
And at the time, I also hadan older brother named Steve
who was working as a lawyer for, uh,
as a public defender on Long Island.
And I used to watch him in court as well.
And between watching my brother
and doing these talks at theViscardi Center, I decided
(10:35):
that law looked like avery viable field for me.
So I left the center
and went to HofstraUniversity School of Law.
- And so then what was itlike having a career in law
as a quadriplegic?
- Well, obviously itposed a lot of challenges,
(10:56):
but I, you know, I was fortunatethat I did an internship
at the Nassau CountyDistrict Attorney's Office.
And while I was workingthere, I found a new way
that I could help peopleand serve the community.
And I knew that I wanted to devote my life
and my career to helping others.
And working at the DistrictAttorney's Office seemed like
(11:16):
the perfect place for me to do it.
But it was really difficult here.
I was a trial attorney,
and I didn't know of anyother trial attorneys, uh,
who were quadriplegics
and certainly I didn't know of any
who were assistant district attorneys.
So it was very challengingto go to court and try
and, uh, do a, do atrial, a criminal trial.
(11:40):
When it was difficult for me to take notes
or even turn pages, I, what I used
to do is copy the case files punch,
have somebody punch holes at them
and put 'em in a three ring notebook.
And with braces and splintswith a lot of difficulty,
I could turn pagers.
And it was very difficultand challenging to try
(12:02):
and keep all the evidence andthe notes straight in my mind.
And a lot of it was basicallyrelying on my memory.
So it posed a lot of challenges,
but I worked really hard
to become a competentassistant district attorney.
- And so then, you know,you've had this career
as an assistant district attorney.
(12:25):
What were some
of your biggest highlightsthroughout that career?
- Well, you know, I would say initially
when I first started doingtrials in our district court
bureau, I was approached by adefense attorney who told me
that he overheard some
of the prisoners talking about me in the
pens behind the courtroom.
(12:46):
And the prisoners were sayingthat I was a really tough ADA
and they hoped they didn'tget the guy in the wheelchair
as their prosecutor.
So that was a big boost whenI heard even the prisoners
seemed to be afraid of gettingthe guy in the wheelchair
as their prosecutor.
And when I'd go to court,I had a lot of help
(13:06):
and support from the court officers.
They were really helpful intrying to get me, uh, to be able
to function as best I could.
And my first problem was Ifound I couldn't even fit
through the swingingdoorways in the courtroom.
They were too narrow to allow me to pass
through in my electric wheelchair.
(13:26):
So that was the firstobstacle that I faced.
But with some minormodifications to the courtrooms,
I was able to function and gobefore a judge and the jury
and present a case anddo direct examinations
and cross examinations andadmit items into evidence.
And I found, once I started talking,
(13:50):
most jurors treated me just like they
would any other attorney.
And I was very pleased tofind out from them afterwards
that once I started talking,
they completely forgot about the fact
that I was in a wheelchair.
And as a result, I had alengthy career as a prosecutor,
where over the course of mycareer, I tried 76 cases,
(14:14):
65 of which were felonies.
I presented 252 cases to the grand jury
and conducted 118 pretrial hearings.
So my numbers of litigationwere consistently
among the highest in my bureau,
and as a result, I waspromoted a number of times
(14:36):
where I eventually becamea Deputy Bureau chief,
where I was helping supervise
more than 25 otherassistant district attorney.
So I really enjoyed thework that I was doing
and was given so much support
and encouragement by my office, as well as
by the court officerswho actually presented me
(14:58):
with an award after Istarted working there.
So I, I very much enjoyed my career
as a prosecutor.
And when you combine my full-timework with Part-time work
that I did there, I worked inthe district attorney's office
for more than 40 years.
(15:19):
- A longstanding career withlots of great work done.
Um, and to hear how, youknow, the prisoners saw you
and how jurors saw you, youknow, shows, you know, the,
the work that you were doing
and you know, how, how you'reable to, you know, exist
and be in society trying cases.
(15:42):
So I mentioned, um,
that there was an award named after you.
Do you wanna share a little bit about what
that was like having that happen?
- Oh, I, I was very thrilled
and surprised with whenI decided to retire.
The district attorneyof Nassau County decided
to name an award after me
(16:03):
that's given annuallythe Kenneth J Kunken award
in recognition of my devotionto the work, my experience
as a trial attorney andmy attitude, perseverance,
and hard work in the office.
And that is the only awardthe district attorney's office
gives out on an annual basis.
(16:25):
And they named it after me,the guy in the wheelchair,
because they felt that I was making, uh,
an enormous impression andinfluence on the other ADAs
and the public in general.
And I might add that in theDistrict Attorney's office,
when you leave the job, you usually go
through an exit interview.
(16:46):
And during that exitinterview, you're asked,
what were the best parts of the job
and what parts do you feelcould be improved upon?
And on a number of occasions,I was told that ADAs had said
the best part of their job wasmeeting, getting to know me
and working with me.
(17:07):
And the reason why I want tocomment on that is not to boast
or brag, but it's
because the ADAs were reallyreferring to meeting, getting
to know and working with somebody
who had a severe disability.
Because unless you had a relativewith a severe disability,
very few people come intodaily contact with somebody
(17:29):
with a disability,particularly in the workplace.
And one of the things ofcourse they commented on was
that I usually had a positive attitude
and a pleasant demeanor,
but I think what was maybemost important to them was
that I was a hard worker
and it didn't involve anyadditional work for them
(17:50):
to have me working in the office.
In fact, I was often producing more work
and doing more than many of my colleagues.
- Yes, that sounds like a, anaward that was well deserved
to be, to be named after you.
Um, and you can hear asyou talk about your career
and your life experiences, just like
(18:10):
how much joy you would've broughtinto those working spaces.
Now you've referred to yourselfat least once as you know,
the guy in the wheelchair.
So, and even just going into the courtroom
for the first time that thedoors weren't wide enough,
what have you seen over time, uh,
(18:31):
in accommodations, whether thatyou've experienced directly
or you've seen for other folks?
- Well, when I was firstinjured and went back to school,
and even later on the job
before the Americans with Disabilities at
very few facilities wereactually wheelchair accessible.
So it was not unusual when Iwent out anywhere that I saw,
(18:56):
I was the only person thatI would see in a wheelchair
and especially in an electric wheelchair,
but she just couldn't get around.
So wherever I went, I wasusually stared at by people
because it was so unusual
to see somebody in mycondition out in public.
If I went to a restaurant,
(19:16):
somebody would be feeding me lunch
or dinner, I would constantly be stared at
by everybody in the restaurant.
If I went to a movie theateror to a Broadway show
or virtually anywhere,wherever I went, I seemed
to attract attention, unwantedattention I might add,
because I just wanted reallyto blend in with the crowd.
(19:39):
But wherever I went, Iwas constantly stared at.
Now thanks to the Americanswith Disabilities Act,
it is far more common to seepeople with all different types
of disabilities out inpublic and in the workplace.
And it is great to see thechanges that have evolved
as a result of that.
(20:00):
- Definitely. So,
because you know, you, you'velived through, you know,
the act even just coming to fruition,
how were you like able to stay positive
and continue going out whenyou were getting this unwanted
attention and not just,oh, I could just stay home
(20:23):
and not get this unwanted attention?
- You know, I was really fortunate
that I've had a very supportive family
and a very supportive groupof friends who encouraged me
and helped motivate meevery step of the way.
And they helped me so much that
after a while I feltI'd be letting them down
(20:45):
if I didn't do everythingI could possibly do.
And without exactly sayingthe words I know, they kind
of reassured me thatthey would act as my arms
and legs to make sureI could do everything
that I wanted to do.
So when you get that type of help
and support, how could younot do as much with your life
(21:07):
as you possibly could?
- And so then what hasit been like, you know,
you've got a lot of greatfamily support, I mentioned,
you know, that you area husband and a father.
So what has that part ofyour journey been like?
- Oh, that is the best part of my journey
and there are no accomplishmentsthat I am more proud
(21:30):
of than those of being a goodhusband and a good father.
So if I could just commenton that for a minute.
You know, after my injury,I decided that I, I wanted
to do my best not
to let the injury prevent mefrom doing any of the things
that I would've wanted todo had I not been injured.
(21:50):
And that included dating likemany men I wanted to meet
and have a satisfying relationship
with the perfect woman for me.
And as you might expect, datingwhen you're a quadriplegic
and trying to impress a womanwhen you're almost totally
paralyzed poses its ownunique set of challenges.
(22:13):
But I was fortunate, it took me a while,
but I eventually met theperfect woman for me.
Her name is Anna, she'sactually sitting next
to me now to my right.
And Anna's the most incredibleperson that I've ever met.
And I guess what they saythat opposites attract, uh,
(22:33):
really holds true for us because Anna
and I are different in so many ways.
I mean, for one, Anna's19 years younger than I'm,
Anna was born and raised in Poland,
while I've spent almost myentire life on Long Island.
Anna is Catholic and I am Jewish.
Anna's over six feet tall
(22:54):
and I'm just under five foot eight.
And even shorter in the wheelchair, Anna's
a vegetarian and I love to eat meat.
And Anna's in exceptionalphysical condition,
and I'm almost totally paralyzed.
But it just seemed likea match made in heaven.
(23:15):
There was a certain magic, acertain chemistry between us
that you just can't put into words.
And in 2003, Anna and I were married.
So we've already celebratedour 21st wedding anniversary.
But it gets better becausewhen we talked about getting
married, Anna said thatshe wanted to have my baby,
(23:40):
not just a baby, my baby.
She said she wanted to see a little Kunken
running around our hall.
Now this I must say seemedimpossible at the time.
I had been paralyzedfor more than 30 years
and I was already in my fifties.
Um, but there is a saying in the military
that I've always liked,which goes the difficult,
(24:03):
we do it once, the impossibletakes a little longer.
Well, we were determined tomake the impossible happen,
and we wanted to do itsooner rather than later.
So we looked into various options,
including in vitro fertilization,
and we're very excited tolearn it still may be possible
for someone in my conditionto father a child.
(24:27):
So we pursued in vitro throughthe miracle of science.
Anna became pregnant.
And on January 24th, 2005,
I was present in the delivery room
when my wife Anna gave birth to triplets.
We have three beautiful,incredible sons, Joey, Jimmy,
(24:51):
and Timmy, who are nowsophomores at three different
colleges in upstate New York.
And I cannot be happieror more proud of my wife
and children than I am today.
- Yes, it's great to hear that.
You know, one of your goals in life
(25:11):
after your injury was to notlet your injury hold you back,
um, to do these things you wanted to do.
And it sounds like trulyopposites did attract, um, for you
to have the family you have now.
Um, but it sounds like,you know, with the power
of science things, thingsthat came to fruition,
(25:35):
and so what, you know, hasit been like, you know,
raising now collegiate boys, um, and,
and navigating with not onebut three babies in the home?
- It's been the most exciting adventure
and journey I could possibly ever imagine.
(25:55):
It, it is just, it's thebest part of my life,
morning, noon, and night to wake up
and see my incredibleboys, to see my loving wife
and know that we worktogether as a team to try
and accomplish whatever itis any one of us needs to do.
And I might add that myboys have been very helpful
(26:18):
growing up and helpingme every way they could.
Whether it be they mayhelp feed me or open a door
or turn on a light, oreven when we go places
before the Americans withdisabilities, well, even
after that, they would go and look
and say, dad, they have a rampthere, you could go there.
And they would check withoutme even asking them that.
(26:41):
And they've been just wonderful,wonderful children, uh,
and very respectful and very, very bright.
In fact, they teach mehow to use the computer.
Um, they're so muchbetter at it than I am.
So it's just been a wonderful,
uh, journey.
(27:03):
And I might add, you know, I,I still have a lot of problems
with my blood pressure.
And one day when the boyswere really little, just
to give you a short story, I,I went, uh, to the local stop
and shop supermarket.
We went there alone, just myson Joey, who was probably,
(27:23):
I don't know, maybe fiveor six at the time, um, uh,
may maybe a little older,maybe close to nine.
And we went alone. We walked there
and while I was there, I got very dizzy
and I knew I needed, uh,Joey to lift up my legs
to help get the bloodto flow back to my head.
(27:45):
And Joey did it withouthesitation, didn't panic,
even though he knew I was in distress.
And even though a crowd was gathering,
he never asked for help.
He never cried, but he lifted up my legs
until I was feeling a little better.
He gave me a blood pressurepill to increase my pressure
and actually was so competent
(28:07):
that he made me feel better.
And just knowing that I wasin good hands when I was
with my 9-year-old son.
And that's the way my boyshave been their whole life.
I know when I'm with them I'm protected.
They protect me and help mein every way that they can.
And it's just incredible.
(28:29):
And I might add that, um,Joey is now actually going
to Cornell, my alma mater,
and he started there 50years after I graduated.
My son Joey was a freshman there.
My son Timmy, is at Syracuse University
where he's pursuing a dual major
in communications at theNewhouse School of Communications
(28:53):
and the Maxwell School of Public Affairs.
And my son James, is at theState University of Morrisville
studying renewable energy.
So the boys are atthree different colleges
but have remained veryclose with each other.
They do FaceTime calls all the time.
They visit each other in school
(29:14):
and have remained very close,
which makes me feel really, really good.
- Yeah, definitely a proud father moment.
Sounds like you've raisedsome great young men
who will hopefully haveprosperous futures.
And so why is it, youknow, that you have decided
(29:37):
to share more about yourstory to author a book
and kind of put yourself andyour life out into the world?
- You know, I, I was encouragedfor many, many years to do
inspirational, motivational talking.
And I've kind of resisted it initially
after, you know, I went toschool before I got married
(30:00):
because I kept thinking to myself
and saying, I, I didn't thinkI did anything that special.
I mean, yes, I went toschool and got some degrees
and yes, I was working,
but I know a, a lot of otherpeople have done those things.
But once my boys were bornand they're all very healthy,
(30:20):
but when, you know, triplets are born,
they're usually born prematurely
and they're in the NICU for a while.
And I could remember sittingby their incubators in the NICU
and looking at them andit was like a revelation.
It was like, whoa, this is big.
It's time for me to share my story.
(30:41):
And as a result I did a gooddeal of motivational speaking
before a lot of groups and organizations
and decided that the bestway to get my story out to
as many people as I could isto write a book about my life.
And with my wife's help, we spent a lot
of time working on it.
(31:02):
And it was published last year.
The book is called I Dreamof Things That Never Were
the Ken Kunken story.
And I've received a lot
of nice comments onpeople that have read it.
And I'd just like to add whereI got the title of my book
while I was still a patientin the rehab center,
I had the opportunity to testify
(31:24):
before United States SenateHealth Subcommittee chaired
by Senator Edward Kennedy.
And eight days after my testimony,
Senator Kennedy sent me aglass paperweight in the mail
that had an inscription on it
that he said his late brother
Robert Kennedy liked very much.
And the inscription read somemen see things as they are
(31:47):
and say why I dream ofthings that never were
and say, why not?
That's why I got the title of my book.
I Dream of Things That Never Were,
because those words have alwaysbeen very meaningful to me.
- Yes, yeah, to have that moment and,
and have that inscription, you know, given
(32:08):
to you at a young age tofigure out, you know, where,
where life is going to take you
with a title such as that.
You know, you were originallyin college for engineering,
you were good at math.
What was your original career intentions?
(32:28):
- Well, I knew that Iwanted to do something
with my math ability
'cause that was clearlywhere I was the strongest.
And in fact, uh, right
before my junior year Iactually had an interview, uh,
with an insurance companyabout becoming an actuary
where you deal a lotwith numbers and figures
and I thought that sounded like an
(32:49):
interesting career as well.
And to be an actuary, you needto take a series of exams.
And I was actually scheduledto take my first exam
on the Wednesday whenI got hurt the Saturday
before, just five days earlier.
So my career goalschanged a number of times.
I was thinking maybe Iwould teach math, you know,
(33:11):
maybe I would go intosome type of business
where I could find usefor my math ability.
But following my injury,I, I never realized that,
you know, I had theability to get up in front
of a group and speak.
You know, I always thoughtI was a bit of an introvert
before my injury.
You know, I would sit inthe back of the classroom,
(33:33):
not raise my hand and just tryand blend in with the crowd
and following my injury.
I was surprised when I was asked to speak
before a lot of different large audiences
about myself, no less.
And I think I was even moresurprised when the words came
outta my mouth and I was able to do it.
(33:55):
And I decided that, you know,
it opened a whole new field for me.
And what I really wanted todo was to work with people
and try and help them
and provide them with betterhealthcare and support.
And I felt I was beinggiven following my injury.
And as a result I pursued, uh, majors
(34:17):
where first I majored in education.
I majored in psychology
for two different degrees in counseling
and then ultimately law school.
And I'm very proud of the background I had
because I think each degreehas helped me function better
as not only a professional butjust as a person in general.
(34:39):
- Of course, they've definitely
given you this well-roundedbackground to be able to
lead the career you've led.
Um, and it sounds like, you know,
even if math was such a strongsuit, like you found passion
and goodness in thecareer that you've had,
even though there hasn'tbeen a math focus.
(35:03):
- Thank you. And as I indicatednow I've written a book
that I wanna share with peopleand it's available on Amazon,
but it's available other places as well.
And if somebody wants to purchase it,
they can go on my website,which is KenKunken.com.
And it indicates anumber of different ways
that it could be purchased,including if they wanna give it
(35:25):
as gifts, how they could buy it in bulk.
- Right. Well I'll of course make sure
to leave your websitein the description so
that people can check thatout if they're interested
in reading the book.
And of course, you know,your life may not have been,
you know, what you originally wanted,
(35:46):
but you're sharing yourstory now you've learned
so much about your life.
What would you say to somebody
who doesn't necessarily knowwhat their future looks like
or where they wanna go?
Like what sort of advice would you give
to someone who's just starting out
and trying to figure out whereshould I be in the world?
(36:10):
- Well try and explore different options.
I mean, I always indicate for anybody, try
and get the best educationpossible and never stop learning.
And getting the best educationcould involve different types
of educations, but alsostudying different subjects
because there may be an area
(36:31):
that you've never even thought about
that once you hear somebodytalking about it brings
out an interest in you.
And also just speakingto others about the type
of work they do and if youcan, to watch people on the job
and see what looks interesting.
Now, I was very fortunatethat my family was always
(36:53):
so helpful and supportive
and that's one of the reasonswhy I ended up going into law.
'cause I followed my brother,you know, into the courtroom
and observed what he did
and spoke to him quite abit about what it was like.
But speaking to others,you know, exposing yourself
(37:13):
to different areas,not ruling out anything
that you may not have considered, uh,
and being willing to actually change jobs
and career, career goals
after a while, if youfind you have a passion
for something else, um,can be really helpful.
(37:33):
And I think if you could become an intern
while you're in school,you know, to be exposed
to other jobs and getsome hands-on experience
can be real helpful as well.
I mean, I was an internat the DA's office.
I didn't know that'swhat I would like to do
until I actually was anintern and, and tried it.
(37:56):
And you know, I've tried to
supervise a lot of interns whileI worked there to give them
that experience
and expose them to whatthe field of law is like,
and to talk to them in generalabout their career goals.
I'd also, I'd just like toadd in my work at the Viscardi
(38:17):
Center, I'm now ontheir board of directors
and they help people with disabilities
receive not only education, but training
and placement help to getthem into jobs and careers.
And I'm so thankful thatI could stay involved
with helping people with disabilities
because I think employers arenow more and more realizing
(38:41):
and seeing the enormousbenefit in hiring people
with disabilities.
They're finding it justmakes good business sense
to hire a worker that'shardworking, dedicated, devoted,
loyal, who just happensto have a disability
and is doing their best tomake something of their lives.
(39:03):
- Yes, education is so important
and, you know, bringingin diverse communities
and as disability gets more recognized
and realized, like you100% can be part of society
and be part of employment,it's great to hear, you know,
have you've gotten those chances
(39:24):
to experience great working environments.
Now you're retired, so whatis retirement like for you?
- Well, it's actually been pretty busy.
I mean, in addition tonow doing these podcasts
where I've done quite anumber so far, as I indicated,
I'm on the board of directorsat the Viscardi Center
(39:46):
and trying to say actively involved
with helping otherindividuals with disabilities.
And I'm also obviously so enthused
and excited about howmy children are doing
and trying to be active intheir lives as best I can.
Um, and you know, we domost family celebrations.
(40:06):
I have a large family, wedo it here at our house.
So it's a lot of entertaining
and it's, it's just great to be involved
with a lot of peoplehelping those when I can
and just taking part in somany different activities that,
um, it brings me a lot of joy.
(40:28):
And I recently was asked to be a part
of the Cornell University Council,
so now I'm on that as well.
And in fact, I'll be goingup to Cornell, uh, in
just over a week
to take part in my firstmeeting on the Cornell
University Council.
And they're actuallygonna have a book signing
for me up there on Thursday,
(40:50):
October 17th, up at the school.
So, you know, you say I'm retired,
I think I've never been morebusy than I am right now.
- But it sounds like you'reenjoying what you're doing
and being a part of thecommunities you're in.
So it sounds like, you know,retirement's the right place
for you right now.
(41:13):
- It really is. You know,
being retired has given me theopportunity to do even more
with my life than when I wasworking at a nine to five job.
- Yes. Now,
before I start to wrap things up,
is there anything elseyou would like to share
with the listeners today?
- Well, you know, there'sso much that you can do
(41:35):
with a disability,
but the first thing I wannashare is, it is so important
to keep your hopes up.
You know, there've been so many times
where I felt people have triedto dash my hopes, you know,
following my injury.
And I think it's soimportant to encourage people
to keep hope, to keeptheir hopes alive, right?
(41:57):
And to believe in themselves,
to believe they can do anything
that they set their minds to.
And one of the things thatI try to talk about in,
in my motivational talksis it's so important
to keep expectations high.
I mean, I, it was terriblewhen I was in the rehab center
and I saw the fellow patients doing very
(42:19):
little with their lives.
And I think part of that was
because they weren't encouraged
by the medical personnel to do more.
I felt like the expectationsfor the fellow patients was
so low that people
no longer had themotivation to exceed them.
And it's, you know,
(42:40):
when you think aboutsomebody's expectations,
they can really have a strong influence on
what other people eventuallydo with their lives.
'cause people's performance often rises
and falls based upon whatothers expect of them.
So it's so important tokeep your expectations high,
and not only for others,
but for yourself as well's,an awful lot you can do
(43:04):
through hard work,determination, discipline,
perseverance, and the right attitude.
And that last trait may bethe most important one of all.
- Definitely attitude there, you know,
affects everything else.
So I think there's were somegreat words here to end on
(43:26):
and for people to think about.
So I appreciate you sharing that.
Now, at the end of all my episodes,
I do ask my guests a randomquestion that doesn't have to do
with what we've been talking about.
So my question today for you is,
what wild animal do youwish was domesticated?
- Oh boy, that's a tough one.
(43:50):
That's, that's a, that'sa tough one for me.
But you know, when,when I think of animals,
I think now I, I've beenexposed to at least seeing
support animals, animals thatare trained to help people
with disabilities.
I've seen the canine supportsystem helping train dogs
(44:12):
to help other individualswith disabilities.
I even saw a, a facilitythat helped train horses
to help train helppeople with disabilities.
And I think it is so great to see that.
I remember seeing many, manyyears ago on 60 Minutes,
them doing an episode ofTraining Monkeys to help people
(44:34):
with disabilities.
So I love the fact that more
and more you are seeinganimals serve as support,
assistance to people with disabilities.
And I think that's great tohave that symbiotic relationship
with an animal where you couldhelp each other, help both
(44:57):
do better with what they wanna do.
It keeps the animals happyand it helps people a lot.
- All right, that bringsthis episode to a close.
So of course, as Kenmentioned, his website,
his website will be inthe description if you
(45:17):
would like to connect with him.
His wife also has him on Facebook,
so if you wanna check him out on Facebook,
that link will be thereas well as an option
to connect with him.
So of course, feel freeto go check those out and
or check his book out if you'reinterested in learning more.
Of course, if you would liketo connect with the podcast,
our website is in the description as well.
It brings you to all of our past episodes,
(45:39):
resources from guests andall of the good things.
It brings you also to our social media.
We are on Facebook,Instagram, and LinkedIn.
If you'd like to go follow those pages,
that support is always appreciated.
My email address isalso in the description.
That is the best way to reach me.
If you'd like to be a guest on the show
and share your story, I'dlove to hear from you.
(45:59):
And there is a link to supportthe podcast monetarily if
you're interested in doing that as well.
So thank you so much, Ken, forspending time with me today
and to my listenersfor taking the time out
of your day to hear a new story.
Until next time, bye.
- And thank you forgiving me the opportunity
to tell my story and to shareit with all your listeners.
(46:19):
I appreciate that opportunity.
I really enjoyed meeting youand having this discussion,
and I look forward tocontinuing having a friendship
with you and with your listeners.
Thank you.
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