September 10, 2024 • 41 mins
In this episode, I’ve included highlights from four episodes from the third year of Introducing Me. These episodes were recorded between October 2022 and March 2023 and thoughts or opinions may have changed since the time of recording. Check out their entire episodes in the archives.
Markus: Raising a Gender Neutral Child in a Three Parent Family; https://www.mharwoodjones.com
Melanie: Former Disney Stepsister; https://www.tiktok.com/@magicalgirlmelanie
Emma: IVF Treatment Abroad; https://www.instagram.com/YourIVFabroad/
Arcadia: Miss Boston Earning a PhD in Psychology; https://www.instagram.com/arcadiaewell/
Donate to the podcast: https://ko-fi.com/introducingmepodcast
Want to share your story and be a guest? Email: introducingmepodcast@gmail.com
Find all the podcast social media and more on the website: https://www.introducingmepodcast.com
Artwork: instagram.com/vashaundesigns
Music/Editing: youtube.com/colemanrowlett
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:15):
- Hello and welcome to Introducing Me.
I'm your host, Sarah. Istarted this podcast to get
to know other people and lifestyles while
discovering more about myself.
Each episode I give a new guest a chance
to discuss their background,culture, interests,
or whatever they want to talkabout to help increase all
of our own worldviews.
This is my final episode.
Looking back at some previous episodes,
as we wrap up seasonfour, you'll hear clips
(00:38):
that were recorded in mythird year of podcasting,
specifically between October 28th, 2022,
and March 30th, 2023.
It's important to realize
that these episodes weren'trecorded within the last few
weeks, like my regular episodes.
Things these guests stated atthe time may not be a fully
accurate representationof how they are today,
(00:59):
but I wanted to pull different stories
and life experiences for today's episode.
There are clips of longerlengths from four different
episodes, and I hope
that if you haven't heard these episodes,
you give the archives a chanceto hear their entire stories.
Or if you have heard thembefore, give them another listen
and you might find joy in recalling back
to when you firstlistened to that episode.
(01:21):
First up is a clip from myconversation with Markus.
He is an author artist,academic based in Toronto.
Markus is married to hispartner of 10 years, Andrew,
and they're raising a childwith their platonic partner,
Hannah. So do you wanna talka little bit more, um,
about Andrew and your relationship?
You mentioned, youknow, opening it up, um,
(01:42):
and being polyamorous
and what that means for your relationship.
- Yeah, so I, I, I metAndrew when I was 21, uh,
my first year at, uh, TorontoMetropolitan University,
which is, um, a big school downtown here.
Uh, I was doing a sociology degree
and he was in his last yearof getting a theater degree.
Um, and he currently works, um,
(02:05):
at the TorontoInternational Film Festival.
Uh, they have like an, a permanent
theater downtown where he works.
Um, and he was, uh, vicepresident of the students union.
Um, and I had just gotten ajob working at the LGBT Center,
so technically he was my boss.
Um, , he wasn't directly on top of me,
(02:25):
so it wasn't super inappropriate,
but, uh, like in thehierarchy of the organization,
I was like a little, you know, grunt
and he was like, you know,
the top level basicallyright under the president.
Um, and, uh, I would alwaysmake ex excuses to go up
to his office, uh, and likedo you know, photocopying
or something so I could make eyes at him.
(02:46):
And I found out later that he, even
before I got my job at the LGBT Center,
he had been eyeing me around campus.
'cause we, I was a volunteer,uh, handing out like flyers
and promoting stuff on campus.
And, uh, he would intentionally go
and do this like flyer handout work
that he really didn't have to be doing so
that he might run into me.
Um, so we had been makingeyes at each other for a while
(03:08):
and then we had to do, um, ananti-oppression training, anti O
and anti, uh, anti-racism training.
That was part of like, everybody
who worked at the student union did this.
It was just a yearly, uh, activity.
And you'd go and you'ddo basically a day long
of training on, uh, howto be anti-oppressive,
what anti-racism looks like.
Um, have sort of like a sharing circle,
(03:29):
a check in in about the organization.
And then everybody would go downstairs
to the pub afterwards, uh, like campus pub
and everybody would drink.
Um, well I guess some people probably had
non-alcoholic drinks.
But , I definitely hadsome drinks that night.
Um, and Andrew and Isat next to each other
and, you know, quietly started chatting.
And, uh, we had chatted a littlebit at the anti O workshop.
(03:51):
Um, but slowly throughout the night, all
of our coworkers startedleaving, you know, one by one
until maybe around midnight
or 1:00 AM we were the last ones there.
And just talking up a storm,I had just finished, uh,
couch surfing, um, in the, inthe years prior I mentioned
after moving outta my grandparents' house
before I started university,I moved to Toronto
(04:11):
by myself when I was 19,um, to have top surgery
as part of my transition.
Um, and I ended up just staying
'cause it just was alot bigger than the city
I grew up in, which is Winnipeg.
It was, it felt more queer inclusive here.
It felt like I might find community here.
And even though it was reallyhard to leave my grandparents,
I just knew I was supposed to be here.
(04:31):
So, um, I had been living inthe city for a couple of years,
but really struggling withfinding an affordable place.
I had basically beenstruggling with homelessness
for a few years, so I took it
as an opportunity to couch surf.
And I ended up couch surfingthrough Toronto, Montreal,
New York, Philadelphia,uh, Orlando, Houston, LA,
(04:52):
and San Francisco.
Um, and I filmed the entire experience
and I interviewed all the transpeople I met along the way.
Um, I got about 50 interviews
and I had just finished this big project
and I was gonna try to turnit into a film, which I did.
It's called Mosaic a, adocumentary and dialogue.
And it's on YouTubenow and my, my website.
And, uh, so I told them allabout the stories I had from
(05:15):
these like weird littleplaces I'd stayed, you know,
like dingy basements where I woke up
with a spider bite on my hand
and I'm not gonna go tothe doctor in America.
Are you kidding? ? So, uh,
or you know, likeadventures I had wandering
around New York City and,uh, having tourists ask me
for directions becausethey thought I was local,
which was a huge compliment.
(05:36):
Um, or you know, thethunderstorms in Orlando
or, uh, you know, paintingpeople's houses in exchange
for a place to stay in Houston.
All kinds of stuff. And hewas just so in love with that.
He loves listening to, to big stories.
Uh, and we, uh, went hometogether that night, .
Um, and I thought it was gonnabe like a one night stand
(05:57):
'cause he was just,you know, I don't know.
I wasn't in a place in my life
where I was looking to for love.
I was not interested in aserious relationship at all.
Um, and I had actuallyjust told my new roommate,
'cause I finally did get stable housing
and I told my roommate, oh,you know, I'm, I get around
so you'll probably see lots of
guys coming in and out of this house, .
And I brought home oneguy and that's who stayed.
(06:19):
Um, and Andrew
and I actually stayedmonogamous for about a year of,
uh, of our relationship.
Uh, and then about a yearin, at the same time,
basically we both broughtup the idea that we wanted
to open the relationship
and date other peopleas well as each other.
Um, so we started dating other folks.
I had a couple of girlfriends
and a couple other dates with other guys
(06:40):
and non-binary people.
Um, Andrew did as well.
Uh, but we just kind of keptcoming back to each other.
And those other relationshipsdidn't really go super long,
um, until maybe about fiveyears into our relationship
where he ended up gettingwith, uh, Mackenzie,
who is still his girlfriend.
So they've been together, Ithink about five years now.
(07:01):
Um, and what's hilarious isthat Mackenzie is also my ex ,
which is, it's such a small queer world,
but she was actuallythe last person I dated
before I met Andrew.
And, uh, she and I get along great.
Our breakup was pretty amicable
and uh, we had bothchanged a lot when we sort
of showed up in each other's lives again.
(07:22):
Um, and so Andrew then gotthis more serious girlfriend.
Andrew and I were still veryserious with each other,
but we weren't living together.
We weren't making super long-term plans.
Um, but we did have one plan in mind.
Um, when we were about24, his roommate, Hannah,
(07:42):
who had been a long time friend of mine,
I I had known her since I, she was one
of the first people I met inToronto, uh, when I was 19.
And I had introduced them 'cause they both
needed a roommate.
Hannah approached the two of us
and said, you know what, you know
that I've been feelingcalled to be a parent.
I feel like I'm reallysupposed to have a child.
You also know that I don't have a partner
(08:02):
with whom I can do that.
Uh, I'm, you know, shewasn't dating anybody, uh,
who was doing that with her.
Um, and you know, shewas like, also, you know,
even if I did, unless Iended up with a trans woman,
which could happen, um,
but if I end up with a cis woman,
I will probably need a donor.
'cause um, Hannah largelydates like women and,
and other non-binary people.
(08:23):
Um, so she was like, you know,I wanna start thinking about
not waiting for a partnerto show up in my life
before trying to work onfinding a donor to have a child.
Andrew, would you considerbeing a sperm donor for me?
Um, and if I don't find a partner,
I'm just gonna single parent 'cause that's
how strongly I feel I'msupposed to have a child.
And, uh, he and I and Hannah sat down
(08:46):
and he, uh, shared that hewould be definitely open
to being a donor, but he would like a
relationship with that kid.
Um, and the more wetalked about it, you know,
I had been open to having children.
Um, but even though Iphysically could carry a child,
it wasn't something that Iwas like super keen to do.
I could find it, I'd probably find
that very dysphoria inducing.
Um, and, uh, eventually wecame to the conclusion together
(09:11):
that Hannah would carrya child with Andrew
as the sperm donor,
and all three of us would bethe parents of that child.
Um, and that was adecision we made in I think
2014, 2015.
Um, and it took us like seven
(09:32):
years to do it.
But over those years, you know,Andrew got his girlfriend,
I pursued my education.
Eventually we moved in together.
Um, and the agreement, you know,
we always just cameback to check in on it.
Uh, we, it continued to be sortof a steady part of our life
and we would sort of meetup and talk about it.
Um, I, when I moved in with Andrew,
(09:54):
obviously I also moved in with Hannah,
the person we're co-parenting with.
Um, they continued to
be roommates throughout this whole time.
And we, we knew this isa bit unusual of a setup,
so we wanted to make sure that we, uh,
talked about it a long time first
and then lived together for a while first
and make sure that wegot along as roommates
because you, like, we wanted
to live together to raise this child.
(10:16):
And then, you know, obviously going
through the fertility process itself.
So the plan had always been
that we would accomplish those goals
and start actually trying for the child.
Before Hannah was 30
and the year that she turned 30 was 2020 .
And he had planned tostart in March, 2020 .
(10:36):
So that was thrown offcourse a little bit,
but we decided that we weregonna pursue it anyway.
Um, and it took a year of trying
and eventually going through IVF,
but we did manage toconceive a child together.
Hannah carried
and, uh, baby River wasdelivered in January, 2022.
(10:57):
Um, yeah, so that's sortof a short summary of,
of our co-parenting journey
and our, our relationship with polyamory.
Um, Andrew's girlfriendis still in our life
and she's an auntie to our child.
Um, she's not going to be a co-parent.
That's not something she's interested in.
Um, Andrew and I recently got married.
She was in our wedding party.
(11:17):
She gave a beautifulspeech at the wedding.
She did our graphicdesign for the wedding,
uh, posters and stuff.
Like, she is totally, totally supportive
and she's very happy as like, I mean, I,
I shouldn't really speak for her,
but my understanding isthat she is very happy
and content being, uh, not living with us,
but being involved in ourlife and being close together
(11:38):
and being an auntie to our child.
And yeah, that's sort of
what our family life looks like right now.
- Next up is Melanie, aformer Disney face character
who does online content creationas Magical Girl Melanie.
Melanie shared abouther interest in Disney
and how it took a long time for her
to actually get a position in the parks.
Not all of her experiences were positive,
(11:59):
but she's in a better place now.
So you talked a little bitabout, you know, kind of
how youre sour on Disneynow, how, you know,
your opinions on yourselfdefinitely changed
and how, you know, 12rejections and all of that.
So can you talk aboutwhere you are now with
how you feel about Disney and post
(12:21):
face character experience,what that means?
- Yeah, and, and I I also wannamake it clear that when I,
when I talk about the, thenegative side of Disney
or like more so the reality of what it is,
I'm not ever trying to yuck people's yum.
I'm not saying like you're abad person if you like Disney
or you shouldn't wanna goto Disney World anymore.
(12:42):
Like I said, I still, I still like going
to Disneyland especially.
I get super excited,you know, I like Epcot.
I would be happy to goon another Disney cruise.
Um, but I do believe abig factor is like voting,
you know, voting with yourdollar is definitely a thing,
but like public pressure isthe biggest thing of all.
(13:05):
Um, Disney is a hugecorporation like everyone else.
Uh, they want the good press,
but they are not going to change
for their employee'ssake like anyone else.
What they do change for is when the people
that are spending money onthem are giving them a bad rep
and are outraged.
So I kind of said
(13:26):
before about how like the Disneyaudition process, you know,
you couldn't look it up, youcouldn't find stories from
anybody that worked there.
Even now, even now, like there's starting
to be more people like me,
but you'll still see sometimesokay, comments, you know,
I can't believe you wouldsay stuff like this.
You're breaking the magic.
You're not supposed to tellpeople you worked there.
And who does that benefit them?
(13:49):
It only benefits them becausethey wanna keep people quiet
and it's all under theguise of, well, it's part
of the magic, it's part
of protecting the character integrity.
You can't, you can't talk about it. Okay?
Where I don't work thereanymore, I never signed an NDA.
Okay, if I did, they wouldpay me way more money.
So most of the problems is it does,
(14:11):
it comes down to pay, right?
So when I say like, oh,I, I'm unhappy about it,
there was not a single day,not once, not if I was sick,
not if it was hot,nothing where I thought,
I just don't wanna do this anymore.
I don't wanna perform. I don'twanna be the stepsisters.
Um, oh, I played bothstepsisters, so I was cast as Drizella.
Um, and then in the middleof the like training,
(14:32):
they were like, by theway, you're both of them.
It was a wild experience.
So I technically wasnot actually taught how
to be Anastasia till Iwent to Florida again.
They probably don't doit like that anymore.
Uh, but it was 2012,it was, we went rogue.
So I like taught myselfhow to be Anastasia.
Um, so, um, you know, I never, ever,
(14:54):
ever was bored of doing it.
It was com always the internalaspects of it, the way
that management made us feel,
the way the upper levels made us feel.
Um, and it was, it was thepay, it was the pay 10000%.
Uh, so you get a base rate,you have a base rate pay,
which would be like whenyou're a fur character,
or like in my case when I was a host.
(15:16):
And then you get what's called a premium.
If you're, it would belike face pay premium.
So if you came in and you wereworking your face character
that day, you made more money.
Um, which is also why when Idid my special event in Paris,
I actually did it as a fur character.
So, uh, even though I was sent to Paris,
I lost money working that
because I was not getting my face premium.
(15:39):
But if I had been at home,
I would've been making my face premium.
So it's crazy. Um, so with my face premium
in, uh, 2014 in Florida, so again,
when I was in California,I was pretty happy, right?
I technically still had,
I had saved money from student loans.
(15:59):
Uh, I was not old enough todrink. I didn't go out anywhere.
I didn't do anything. All I did was go
to work at Disneyland, was very happy.
Come home, did school on my computer,
and on my day off Iwould go to Disneyland.
So pretty much my biggestexpense would be if I wanted
to eat food at Disneyland.
Um, so I didn't really havetoo much of a problem there.
That being said, was my bedroom a living
(16:20):
room with curtains up?
Yes. And like I said,I didn't, I had a car,
but I didn't drive anywhere.
Uh, I rode my bike to work,so my expenses were very low.
They were very low even thoughI was living in California,
so I didn't really have this problem.
Then, um, in Florida also,
the California minimumwage is higher of course.
So I think I made closer to $15 an hour
(16:43):
and I was a face character.
But when I was in theparade, I made minimum wage
because the premiums workdifferently out there
and I was not paid to talk, which is,
is wild how they get away with that.
Um, so in California,
all the parade performerswanna do meet and greets.
And in Florida all the meet
and greet people wanna do parades.
It's a mess. So I, um, uh,
(17:04):
in Florida I've madeabout $12 in some change.
When I was a face character, uh,
it was like maybe a $2premium or something.
I think I made 10 somethingas a fur character.
And so I had to grapple withthis problem with myself
that I was doing my dream job.
I loved it. I loved my job.
(17:27):
All I did, I realize now it was unhealthy.
All I really did was go towork and come home and watch TV
and then I would go to work.
I didn't even really like goto the parks like for fun,
like on my own or anythinganymore, really at Florida.
But I loved going to work
and I also needed to go to work
'cause I didn't have any money.
(17:48):
Um, but like everyonetalks about dream jobs
and everything growing up.
Oh, follow your dreams.
Even when I was a flight attendant
and I said I wanted to quit,
people were like, well, what's your dream?
What's your dream job?
And I was like, Nope, that doesn't work.
Already had it already did it.
Because when you talk about dream jobs,
everyone always implieslike, your dream job has
to be like a doctor, a lawyer,you know what, whatever,
(18:12):
something, something thatpeople traditionally think of
as making a lot of money.
Okay? What happens when yourdream job pays you $12 an hour?
I was getting paid $12 an hour
and I was like, this is thething I am best at in life.
This is the thing I love the most.
And it was, and I, tothis day, I still think
(18:32):
that is the thing that I was best at.
Um, but I, I couldn't support myself.
And so I had to like look that in the face
and be like, what does that mean?
Um, and I knew that I had tostart looking for another job
when it got to the point whereI was looking in the mirror
and thinking maybe if my nose was cuter,
I could pay my bills better
because the characters that Iplayed had two shifts a day.
(18:55):
Cinderella had about 17 shifts a day.
So you start thinking, wellmaybe if they would let me play
other characters, maybethen I could get overtime.
Which still is not, it'sstill not the right answer.
Obviously Cinderella's notmaking more money than me,
but she had more shift opportunities.
And um, I knew, I knewthat was wrong, that I,
(19:16):
I shouldn't be thinking of myself that way
because when I was in California,maybe for a second, right,
I was like, oh my God,what if they asked me
to be a stepsister becauselike, they think I'm ugly.
And then I was like, that's insane.
Disneyland doesn't hireugly people, right?
Like I said, there waslike, it felt like there was
like 12 people working there.
Um, there was no way. There was no way.
And, uh, fake it till you make it.
(19:37):
I used to think I wasn't funny.
Well, nope, I don't think that anymore.
Uh, and also when you're walking
around jokingly being like,I'm so hot, I'm so pretty.
I'm amazing. The onlyreason I'm not married is
because I'm so picky.
Uh, you start to believe alittle bit of of that stuff.
Like if you're saying that all day
and pretending it's awesome.
(19:58):
Uh, the flip side of thatis when you're in Florida
and you're doing it six days a week
and people are calling you ugly
and nasty to your face,doesn't feel so good,
doesn't feel so good all the time.
And a lot of the other girlsthat I worked with, they played
us princess and a stepsister.
And so for them it'slike, oh man, it's so fun.
You know, I love everyonewanted to be a stepsister
(20:20):
because we could call sayit like it is we're funny.
I I'm gonna make this clear as well.
I would never, ever,ever, ever trade even one
of the stepsisters for a princess.
I would not have beenwilling to give that up.
Like I didn't wanna be Elsa,
but if I had gotten cast as Elsa,
I would've been super thankfulto pay my bills better.
(20:41):
But like I would have triedto trade all my Elsa shifts
for a stepsister for sure.
I would've been grateful,but I still would've
preferred to be a stepsister.
So it was never about being like,
I don't wanna be this character.
I don't like them. Uh, I lovethem so much, I love them
so much and she'll alwaysbe a huge part of me.
It's almost like a chickenin the egg scenario.
I don't know if I'm like this'cause I played her so long
(21:02):
or if that's why I wasso good at playing her
'cause that's just how I am.
Um, but so the thing is,
to this day, as far as Iknow, if there's a girl
that plays a princess
and a stepsister, then she was hired
either both at the same time.
She came in and they werelike, you're gonna be Ariel
(21:23):
and you're gonna be Anastasia or whatever.
Or they started as a princess
and then either, uh,
mentioned they didn't have enough shifts
or they were being agedout of being a princess
and they are given a stepsisteras like a here have that.
Never once has there beena girl that they hired only
(21:45):
as a stepsister that latergot to be a princess.
Make it make sense. If we'reall supposed to look the same
and one girl's allowedto play five princesses
and I'm not allowed to playone, make it make sense, then
how does she look like me?
I look like her. That's nuts,
and then of course it's like, well,
don't take it personally.
Okay. How, how am I supposed to not take
(22:06):
that personally, right?
But I was, I was also like
so brainwashed that Ilike convinced myself.
I'd be like, no, I know, I know
I shouldn't take it personally.
No. I'm allowed to bemad about that and I am.
And it took a really long time for me to
change my thinking from
you're not pretty enough to be a princess.
You're not good enough to be a princess.
(22:28):
Um, and when people would say,oh my gosh, you're too pretty
to be a an ugly stepsister, youshould have been a princess.
And I'd be like, yeah.And I would, I'd be sad
or I'd be angry when peoplewould say stuff like that to me.
'cause it was opening awound I already had, right?
Um, to change my thinking now to
the casting agents are bad at their job.
(22:49):
I look incredible in princesses,but I'm not delusional.
I don't think I look perfectas every single princess,
but there's some that I'mlike, there is no way on earth
that I wasn't, uh, good enough for this.
Like, you guys can't look past makeup,
you can't do anything.
It's crazy. It justdoesn't make any sense.
(23:10):
Um, but yeah, it's that,
and like it's in terms oflike when you said changing
how I felt about the like, oh,
you just have to want it bad enough.
You just have to try harder.
Um, Monsters Universityactually hit me really hard
because that's kind ofMike Wazowski storyline in
that actually, like, Icollect Mike Wazowski stuff,
he's my favorite Disney character.
(23:30):
Um, because you, ofcourse the movie starts
and he's like, I'm gonna be a scarer.
And it's like, no, you're not.
Like, you know that, you knowthat watching the whole movie
that it doesn't matter thatlike he knows more about it,
likes it more than everyone else.
He's not gonna get it.He's never gonna get it
because of other people's opinions on
him that he can't change.
(23:51):
Um, which was ex exactlywhat happened to me.
And what does he do is heends up just changing the
narrative and he kind
of invents his own job that's like better.
And then of course, if youthink about Monsters Inc.
Ultimately at the end of theday, he ends up being the ones
that goes through the door anyhow,
but he's like doing it on his own terms.
So that's why I like him so much.
(24:12):
Um, but that was, thatwas kind of it for me is
that I look back on that andthink I didn't get the job
because I deserved itor because I earned it
or I wanted it harder.
At the end of the day,I was lucky I was in the
right place at the right time.
I was very skinny and I'm white
and they liked what my face looked like.
(24:33):
That's it. And it doesn'tmean that I'm not grateful for
what I did, but it is not this special job
that we should put up on a pedestal
because I did nothing to earnit except look a certain way.
So that's how, that's how Ifeel now is that I would say
that is that like, yeah,you can sit there all day
and be like, oh, just
because, you know, everyone's heard
that speech a million timesat the Disney auditions just
(24:55):
because we, you don't get picked
and we don't think you looklike a cartoon character.
Doesn't mean you're notpretty sure in theory
still gonna make you feel that way.
Anyway,
- In the next clip, Emma Haslamtakes us through her journey
of infertility that ledher to being turned down
for NHS treatment andhaving a baby abroad.
(25:16):
Since then, she has set up her own company
to help people globallyexpand their families.
So can you take us back to kind
of like the beginningwhen you first figured out
that you were infertile
and that you were goingto kind of have to go
through some sort of process
if you wanted to start a family?
- Yeah, sure.
So naively, my husband
(25:37):
and I, Adam, um, we began
trying casually trying after our wedding.
Um, and we'd had a, a very mucha whirlwind dreamy romance.
Um, and you know, would just presume
that it would happen.
Um, like I think lots
(25:57):
of people do just think it'sgonna happen even though
infertility affects like one in,
I think it's one in six in the states
and I think it's one in seven in the UK.
So I mean it, that's alot of people, right?
Um, which is presumably it happened and
after about six months ofcasually trying, we were like,
Hmm, maybe we're notdoing it the right time.
(26:17):
Um, maybe we need to tryall these old wives tales.
And so we kind of went fromcasually trying to really trying
and nothing was happening.
So we were kind of a year in
and how old was I 32 maybe.
So we were like, maybe weshould go to the doctors
(26:39):
and, you know, run some tests.
So we, we did, did that, went to the GP
and um, they ran some tests on both Adam
and I, which indicated
that there were issuespotentially on both sides.
So myself, um, perimenopause and low AMH
and for my husband, low testosterone
(27:01):
and um, low sperm count and motility.
We were then referred to, togynecology to kind of, um,
have a, you know, a furtherlook at us, ran some
tests, did an ultrasound.
I didn't have very many follicles, um,
which when you are more fertile
you would produce morefollicles each month
and in the folliclesare where the eggs are.
(27:23):
Um, so it was a pretty bleak picture
and we were basically told at that point
that we had no chance ofconceiving at all naturally.
Um, and that the only chance we had
would be via IVF
and we had a three to 5%chance of that working.
- So then what was theIVF journey like for you?
(27:45):
- So from kind of receivingthat news, I mean, that was
probably one of the lowestpoints for, for us both in
that journey because not only to be told
that you'll never conceive naturally,
but then to be told, evenwith IVF, you've got a really,
really tiny chance of it working.
But then the next thing was if you,
if you want NHS fundedtreatment, you are entitled
to one round, but you need to lose, um,
(28:07):
you don't work in stones in the US do you,
but, um, I'll have to work it out
what it is in kilograms, a lot of weight.
I had to lose a lot of weight,
six stone if people dounderstand what stones are,
14 pounds in a stone, um, a lot of weight.
And I went away to do that
and I lost the weight over,over kind of a two year process,
(28:28):
um, of healthy eating and exercise.
And then I went back,we went back to be told
that actually the rules hadsince changed in our area
and could I go and loseanother couple of stone,
another sort of 28 pounds?
I was like, not really, no.
And you know, bearing in mind that, uh,
my diagnosis had nothing to do with weight
(28:49):
and it's all about money, you know,
and how the local carecommissioning groups in the
UK choose to spend their money.
So in some areas in theUK you might get three
rounds of funded treatment.
In other areas you'll get none, um,
very much dependent on your postcode,
but also the rules that theyset in terms of who does
and doesn't qualify alsodepends on, on, you know,
(29:09):
the people making the decisionswith the purse strings.
So, um, had I lived likefive miles down the road,
I would've qualified for treatment.
So at that point it kindof stalled our journey
because we, you know, hadgone away, I'd lost this weight
and we very much thought we had a plan
and we were gonna haveNHS funded treatment, um,
(29:30):
to then be told thatactually could I just go
and lose some more weight?
And the thing is, I washealthy, I was very fit.
Um, I mean, I wasn't unhealthy
before that was, that'sthe annoying thing.
But, you know, I didwhat they asked me to do
and time was ticking on, you know, like
if you've got a diagnosis of low AMH
and perimenopause, you don'twanna be hanging around.
(29:51):
Um, so I felt very muchlike time had been wasted.
It was a real kick in the teeth.
Um, and that kind of pausedour journey for a second,
um, while we tried tofigure out what to do.
- So then what made you guyskind of figure out like, hey,
there are options abroad if we, you know,
(30:13):
wanna take it out of the UK?
- Yeah, so I can't rememberwhat the exact moment was
because originally westarted looking at UK private
treatment, but the, you know,
the first thing we we saw was just how,
how extraordinarily expensive it is.
I mean, the states is evenmore expensive than that.
Um, and it's very expensive here.
(30:34):
Um, we knew we had verylow odds of it working.
We knew that once the moneyhad gone, it had gone.
Like we'd moved in with myparents, you know, newlyweds,
and don't get me wrong, it'sprivileged that we could do
that, but also not idealin a small house living
with your parents as newlyweds.
And, and all of the fun stuffstopped like going on holiday
and you know, we wanted to buy a house
and you know, instead we, weplowed money into doing this.
(30:55):
So we, we saved up the money
thinking we would have treatment in the UK
and we had some consultations
and we just didn't reallyfeel the connection with any
of the three clinics in the UK.
And we also found the processof trying to get costings out
of people for treatment really difficult.
(31:17):
And so in one of the cases,like we'd paid, I think,
I mean the dollar and thepound are very similar,
aren't they in amounts at the moment.
So, you know, let's say $300for a consultation for a clinic
that actually when wegot the real costings,
we could never have affordedto have treatment there anyway.
So we spent nearly, you know,
nearly a thousand dollarson consultations at clinics
that we didn't feel a love for.
(31:38):
And we were no further forward
and we just spent moneythat, you know, was there
for our fertility treatment.
It just felt very like cookie cutter.
I don't know, it, it just, yeah, I,
i we just didn't get the feeling.
Um, and it also feltlike a lot of pressure,
like it's not going towork probably in one round,
so why are we doing it?
(31:59):
You know, this just doesn't feel like
it's the right thing to do.
But we weren't sure whatthe right thing to do was.
And we'd explored, um, like adoption
and surrogacy and they didn't feel
like the right options for us.
So I'm not sure why
or what made me typesomething into Google.
(32:20):
I mean, we're both quite well traveled
and you know, like I went at 30, I decided
to pack in my job
and just go around theworld traveling by myself.
I happened to meet Adam likethree weeks before I did that.
And he then joined me about six months in.
But I think we're both, we're not phased
by going to other countries.
(32:42):
And you know, there is sometimesI think a thought that,
you know, we we're very luckywith like the NHS in the UK
we've got very high standards
of healthcare like lotsof other countries have.
But sometimes that can make you think, oh,
but is it gonna be safe elsewhere?
Is it gonna be as good elsewhere?
And of course you've gottabe careful where you go
and you've gotta do your research.
Um, but you know, we wereopen to the fact that
(33:05):
there will be other places inthe world that also do this
and do it really, really well.
Um, but really
the only stories we'd everheard about people going abroad
for treatment was aroundthings like cosmetic surgery,
which obviously IVF isn't,
but, you know, goingabroad, having a procedure
(33:26):
like the teeth done or something
and it's gone completely wrong
and you'd read, you know,you'd see an article in
a newspaper about that.
I mean, there will havebeen, you know, hundreds
of thousands of otherpeople that have gone abroad
and had the same procedureprobably at a different clinic,
um, and had a great experience,
but you never heard those stories, right?
You just hear those kind of scary stories.
Um, so I had heard those
(33:47):
and I remember when I saidto my mom, like, I, I'd,
I'd just started looking online
and um, I remember saying to my mom,
you know, we might go abroad.
And she was absolutely horrified.
She was like, no, don't do that.
Like, how do you know it's gonna be safe?
And you know, and she wasquite right in what she said
because how did I know?
And while I did a lot of my own research,
I didn't really know ifI'm honest, you know,
(34:09):
back then we were vulnerable and desperate
and, you know, I I could justsee the cost savings was were
so significantly less and,you know, we liked traveling
and I was like, well look,we're just gonna explore
it and we're gonna just see.
Um, so those kind ofGoogle searches led us
(34:30):
to booking some consultationswith clinics abroad
and um, I think the three thatwe had were actually free.
So there was like no cost just to kind
of dipping your toes inand, and and seeing, and,
and I am a natural researcher,so I had done as much kind
of homework as I could withthe knowledge that I had then.
Um, but we had the consultations
(34:50):
and it just felt completely different.
Like, first of all,
I didn't feel like I was beingjudged on my BMI, my weights,
um, and it felt much more holistic.
Um, I felt like a clientI felt listened to,
not judged, and it was just
a completely different experience.
And that was the sameat all three clinics.
(35:12):
Um, you know, the coordinatorswho are the people
who you deal with at the end of the, um,
at your case holder, atthe end of the, the emails,
you know, the, the English was brilliant,
really efficient, so helpful.
Um, and yeah, it just feltlike the right thing to do.
It was very easy to getthe costings from them.
So it was very, you know, clear
(35:35):
that it was certainly so much cheaper.
And as far as I was aware fromthe research that I've done,
you know, there werea, a regulated clinic,
a registered clinic, ahighly regarded clinic, um,
and a short, you know, a shortflight for us into Europe.
Um, and so we decided thatwe were going to do it much
(35:56):
to the horror
and disgust about parents who were,
I think genuinely very worried.
I mean, now they're like obviously.
They're like, go abroad,go and chat to Emma.
Um, but you know, I can, Ican see the fear and, and,
and if I'm honest, we were alittle bit uncertain as well,
you know, we, we felt reassured enough
obviously to go ahead and do it.
(36:17):
But, you know, it was alittle bit of a leap of faith
because we didn't have anywhere,anywhere to turn to kind
of get the information andsupport that we needed.
But we desperately wanted to, to do this.
Um, and we knew that this gave us,
you know, the best chances.
The clinic had great successrates, no waiting lists.
And, you know, we wantedto, to get on with it.
(36:39):
And thankfully we did choose to go abroad
'cause we did need three rounds.
And on the third round our son was born.
So had it, you know, hadwe have had it in the UK,
there was no more money thanwe wouldn't have our son today.
So yeah.
- These final clips come from my episode
with Arcadia Ewell at the timeof recording, she was serving
as Miss Boston 2023 and a thirdyear psychology PhD student.
(37:03):
These clips share just a piece of
what was going on inher life at that time.
So when did your MissAmerica journey start?
- Very early, actually.
I, so Miss America has asister program called the Miss
America's Teen Program.
So I actually started as a teen.
I was 15, I think,sophomore of high school.
(37:24):
I had an older friendand she was competing
and I just wanted to doeverything that she did.
And so I kind of joined in and,
and they call it the bug a little bit.
'cause once you do it, onceyou're just, you're hooked
and you never wanna stop .
And so I have competed severaltimes, not consecutively,
like there's been times I've taken a year
or two off to really focus on school.
(37:45):
And then I've come back
and just this past yearactually, the age limit
for which you could competein Miss America stopped at
25 years old.
And so I turned 26 in October.
So I thought I was done,I was out, I was finished.
And they raised the age limit.
A brand new Miss America rule.
The age limit to compete forMiss America is now 18 to 28,
(38:08):
which is really incredible
because it kind of acknowledges the fact
that women are pursuing theireducation later in life.
They're going for higher degrees,they're going for masters
and PhDs, uh,
and Miss America is there tosupport them with scholarships.
So I got this second chance to kind
of come back and compete again.
And two weeks later I was Miss Boston.
So that was pretty cool.
(38:29):
- And so how are youable to balance the work
of Miss Boston with being a PhD
student?
- Wonderful question. Somedays it's easier than others.
I am at the place in my PhDwhere I'm actually starting
to think about my dissertation.
In a couple months I will belaunching my own research study
to collect my dissertation data.
(38:50):
And so there are some days thatthat can be quite stressful.
Uh, but the good thing about a PhD is
that nobody is hanging overyour shoulder, making sure
that you're checkingyour time sheet, right?
As long as I get my workdone, my boss does not care
what hours of the day that that happens.
And so some days I am out nine
(39:12):
to five doing my job as MissBoston, I am out at schools,
I'm out volunteering
or making connections withdomestic violence organizations,
and then I come home and I eat dinner,
and then I do my homework
or I do whatever kind ofdeadlines I need to be working on.
I think that if you really want something,
you find ways to make it work.
(39:33):
And so I just always remindmyself that what I do
as Miss Boston is actuallytransferrable skills
that will help me get a job after my PhD.
And my PhD is transferrable skills
that I can talk about inmiss in my Miss Massachusetts
interview that make me preparedto become Miss Massachusetts
so they're not in in competition
(39:54):
with each other in that sense.
- So then assuming you're goinginto like the science route
post PhD degree.
And whenever your journey does end
with the Miss America universe, whether
that's in the near future
or the farther future, how are you going
(40:15):
to continue your advocacywork for domestic
violence?
- Wonderful, wonderful question.
So my ultimate goal, I do plan to
leave academia
and I wanna go into moreof a policy centered world.
I wanna make sure thatwe are creating policies
that are really informedand backed by science.
(40:37):
And so there are a lot ofoffices right now within the
government that do really focuson adolescent sex education.
They really focus onrelationship education,
they focus on domesticviolence prevention.
And so ultimately I'd loveto be able to end up there
and I'd love to be able to saythat I have the quantitative
and qualitative skills asa researcher from my years
(40:58):
as a PhD, but I alsohave the policy skills.
I have the advocacy skills,
I have the lobbying skillsfrom my years in Miss America
that I am perfectly suitedfor this job right here.
And so that's what I mean when I say
that they're not incompetition with each other
because both of these realms are going
to eventually feed into
what I wanna do for the rest of my life.
(41:27):
- All right. That bringsthis episode to a close.
Like previous times, I willbe providing the relevant
episode titles and resources
for the episodes you heard clips from
today in the description.
And of course, thank you fortaking the time out of your day
to hear some clips from some old stories.
Until next time, bye.
- Hello and welcome to Introducing Me.
I'm your host, Sarah. Istarted this podcast to get
to know other people and lifestyles while
discovering more about myself.
Each episode I give a new guest a chance
to discuss their background,culture, interests,
or whatever they want to talkabout to help increase all
of our own worldviews.
This is my final episode.
Looking back at some previous episodes,
as we wrap up seasonfour, you'll hear clips
(00:38):
that were recorded in mythird year of podcasting,
specifically between October 28th, 2022,
and March 30th, 2023.
It's important to realize
that these episodes weren'trecorded within the last few
weeks, like my regular episodes.
Things these guests stated atthe time may not be a fully
accurate representationof how they are today,
(00:59):
but I wanted to pull different stories
and life experiences for today's episode.
There are clips of longerlengths from four different
episodes, and I hope
that if you haven't heard these episodes,
you give the archives a chanceto hear their entire stories.
Or if you have heard thembefore, give them another listen
and you might find joy in recalling back
to when you firstlistened to that episode.
(01:21):
First up is a clip from myconversation with Markus.
He is an author artist,academic based in Toronto.
Markus is married to hispartner of 10 years, Andrew,
and they're raising a childwith their platonic partner,
Hannah. So do you wanna talka little bit more, um,
about Andrew and your relationship?
You mentioned, youknow, opening it up, um,
(01:42):
and being polyamorous
and what that means for your relationship.
- Yeah, so I, I, I metAndrew when I was 21, uh,
my first year at, uh, TorontoMetropolitan University,
which is, um, a big school downtown here.
Uh, I was doing a sociology degree
and he was in his last yearof getting a theater degree.
Um, and he currently works, um,
(02:05):
at the TorontoInternational Film Festival.
Uh, they have like an, a permanent
theater downtown where he works.
Um, and he was, uh, vicepresident of the students union.
Um, and I had just gotten ajob working at the LGBT Center,
so technically he was my boss.
Um, , he wasn't directly on top of me,
(02:25):
so it wasn't super inappropriate,
but, uh, like in thehierarchy of the organization,
I was like a little, you know, grunt
and he was like, you know,
the top level basicallyright under the president.
Um, and, uh, I would alwaysmake ex excuses to go up
to his office, uh, and likedo you know, photocopying
or something so I could make eyes at him.
(02:46):
And I found out later that he, even
before I got my job at the LGBT Center,
he had been eyeing me around campus.
'cause we, I was a volunteer,uh, handing out like flyers
and promoting stuff on campus.
And, uh, he would intentionally go
and do this like flyer handout work
that he really didn't have to be doing so
that he might run into me.
Um, so we had been makingeyes at each other for a while
(03:08):
and then we had to do, um, ananti-oppression training, anti O
and anti, uh, anti-racism training.
That was part of like, everybody
who worked at the student union did this.
It was just a yearly, uh, activity.
And you'd go and you'ddo basically a day long
of training on, uh, howto be anti-oppressive,
what anti-racism looks like.
Um, have sort of like a sharing circle,
(03:29):
a check in in about the organization.
And then everybody would go downstairs
to the pub afterwards, uh, like campus pub
and everybody would drink.
Um, well I guess some people probably had
non-alcoholic drinks.
But , I definitely hadsome drinks that night.
Um, and Andrew and Isat next to each other
and, you know, quietly started chatting.
And, uh, we had chatted a littlebit at the anti O workshop.
(03:51):
Um, but slowly throughout the night, all
of our coworkers startedleaving, you know, one by one
until maybe around midnight
or 1:00 AM we were the last ones there.
And just talking up a storm,I had just finished, uh,
couch surfing, um, in the, inthe years prior I mentioned
after moving outta my grandparents' house
before I started university,I moved to Toronto
(04:11):
by myself when I was 19,um, to have top surgery
as part of my transition.
Um, and I ended up just staying
'cause it just was alot bigger than the city
I grew up in, which is Winnipeg.
It was, it felt more queer inclusive here.
It felt like I might find community here.
And even though it was reallyhard to leave my grandparents,
I just knew I was supposed to be here.
(04:31):
So, um, I had been living inthe city for a couple of years,
but really struggling withfinding an affordable place.
I had basically beenstruggling with homelessness
for a few years, so I took it
as an opportunity to couch surf.
And I ended up couch surfingthrough Toronto, Montreal,
New York, Philadelphia,uh, Orlando, Houston, LA,
(04:52):
and San Francisco.
Um, and I filmed the entire experience
and I interviewed all the transpeople I met along the way.
Um, I got about 50 interviews
and I had just finished this big project
and I was gonna try to turnit into a film, which I did.
It's called Mosaic a, adocumentary and dialogue.
And it's on YouTubenow and my, my website.
And, uh, so I told them allabout the stories I had from
(05:15):
these like weird littleplaces I'd stayed, you know,
like dingy basements where I woke up
with a spider bite on my hand
and I'm not gonna go tothe doctor in America.
Are you kidding? ? So, uh,
or you know, likeadventures I had wandering
around New York City and,uh, having tourists ask me
for directions becausethey thought I was local,
which was a huge compliment.
(05:36):
Um, or you know, thethunderstorms in Orlando
or, uh, you know, paintingpeople's houses in exchange
for a place to stay in Houston.
All kinds of stuff. And hewas just so in love with that.
He loves listening to, to big stories.
Uh, and we, uh, went hometogether that night, .
Um, and I thought it was gonnabe like a one night stand
(05:57):
'cause he was just,you know, I don't know.
I wasn't in a place in my life
where I was looking to for love.
I was not interested in aserious relationship at all.
Um, and I had actuallyjust told my new roommate,
'cause I finally did get stable housing
and I told my roommate, oh,you know, I'm, I get around
so you'll probably see lots of
guys coming in and out of this house, .
And I brought home oneguy and that's who stayed.
(06:19):
Um, and Andrew
and I actually stayedmonogamous for about a year of,
uh, of our relationship.
Uh, and then about a yearin, at the same time,
basically we both broughtup the idea that we wanted
to open the relationship
and date other peopleas well as each other.
Um, so we started dating other folks.
I had a couple of girlfriends
and a couple other dates with other guys
(06:40):
and non-binary people.
Um, Andrew did as well.
Uh, but we just kind of keptcoming back to each other.
And those other relationshipsdidn't really go super long,
um, until maybe about fiveyears into our relationship
where he ended up gettingwith, uh, Mackenzie,
who is still his girlfriend.
So they've been together, Ithink about five years now.
(07:01):
Um, and what's hilarious isthat Mackenzie is also my ex ,
which is, it's such a small queer world,
but she was actuallythe last person I dated
before I met Andrew.
And, uh, she and I get along great.
Our breakup was pretty amicable
and uh, we had bothchanged a lot when we sort
of showed up in each other's lives again.
(07:22):
Um, and so Andrew then gotthis more serious girlfriend.
Andrew and I were still veryserious with each other,
but we weren't living together.
We weren't making super long-term plans.
Um, but we did have one plan in mind.
Um, when we were about24, his roommate, Hannah,
(07:42):
who had been a long time friend of mine,
I I had known her since I, she was one
of the first people I met inToronto, uh, when I was 19.
And I had introduced them 'cause they both
needed a roommate.
Hannah approached the two of us
and said, you know what, you know
that I've been feelingcalled to be a parent.
I feel like I'm reallysupposed to have a child.
You also know that I don't have a partner
(08:02):
with whom I can do that.
Uh, I'm, you know, shewasn't dating anybody, uh,
who was doing that with her.
Um, and you know, shewas like, also, you know,
even if I did, unless Iended up with a trans woman,
which could happen, um,
but if I end up with a cis woman,
I will probably need a donor.
'cause um, Hannah largelydates like women and,
and other non-binary people.
(08:23):
Um, so she was like, you know,I wanna start thinking about
not waiting for a partnerto show up in my life
before trying to work onfinding a donor to have a child.
Andrew, would you considerbeing a sperm donor for me?
Um, and if I don't find a partner,
I'm just gonna single parent 'cause that's
how strongly I feel I'msupposed to have a child.
And, uh, he and I and Hannah sat down
(08:46):
and he, uh, shared that hewould be definitely open
to being a donor, but he would like a
relationship with that kid.
Um, and the more wetalked about it, you know,
I had been open to having children.
Um, but even though Iphysically could carry a child,
it wasn't something that Iwas like super keen to do.
I could find it, I'd probably find
that very dysphoria inducing.
Um, and, uh, eventually wecame to the conclusion together
(09:11):
that Hannah would carrya child with Andrew
as the sperm donor,
and all three of us would bethe parents of that child.
Um, and that was adecision we made in I think
2014, 2015.
Um, and it took us like seven
(09:32):
years to do it.
But over those years, you know,Andrew got his girlfriend,
I pursued my education.
Eventually we moved in together.
Um, and the agreement, you know,
we always just cameback to check in on it.
Uh, we, it continued to be sortof a steady part of our life
and we would sort of meetup and talk about it.
Um, I, when I moved in with Andrew,
(09:54):
obviously I also moved in with Hannah,
the person we're co-parenting with.
Um, they continued to
be roommates throughout this whole time.
And we, we knew this isa bit unusual of a setup,
so we wanted to make sure that we, uh,
talked about it a long time first
and then lived together for a while first
and make sure that wegot along as roommates
because you, like, we wanted
to live together to raise this child.
(10:16):
And then, you know, obviously going
through the fertility process itself.
So the plan had always been
that we would accomplish those goals
and start actually trying for the child.
Before Hannah was 30
and the year that she turned 30 was 2020 .
And he had planned tostart in March, 2020 .
(10:36):
So that was thrown offcourse a little bit,
but we decided that we weregonna pursue it anyway.
Um, and it took a year of trying
and eventually going through IVF,
but we did manage toconceive a child together.
Hannah carried
and, uh, baby River wasdelivered in January, 2022.
(10:57):
Um, yeah, so that's sortof a short summary of,
of our co-parenting journey
and our, our relationship with polyamory.
Um, Andrew's girlfriendis still in our life
and she's an auntie to our child.
Um, she's not going to be a co-parent.
That's not something she's interested in.
Um, Andrew and I recently got married.
She was in our wedding party.
(11:17):
She gave a beautifulspeech at the wedding.
She did our graphicdesign for the wedding,
uh, posters and stuff.
Like, she is totally, totally supportive
and she's very happy as like, I mean, I,
I shouldn't really speak for her,
but my understanding isthat she is very happy
and content being, uh, not living with us,
but being involved in ourlife and being close together
(11:38):
and being an auntie to our child.
And yeah, that's sort of
what our family life looks like right now.
- Next up is Melanie, aformer Disney face character
who does online content creationas Magical Girl Melanie.
Melanie shared abouther interest in Disney
and how it took a long time for her
to actually get a position in the parks.
Not all of her experiences were positive,
(11:59):
but she's in a better place now.
So you talked a little bitabout, you know, kind of
how youre sour on Disneynow, how, you know,
your opinions on yourselfdefinitely changed
and how, you know, 12rejections and all of that.
So can you talk aboutwhere you are now with
how you feel about Disney and post
(12:21):
face character experience,what that means?
- Yeah, and, and I I also wannamake it clear that when I,
when I talk about the, thenegative side of Disney
or like more so the reality of what it is,
I'm not ever trying to yuck people's yum.
I'm not saying like you're abad person if you like Disney
or you shouldn't wanna goto Disney World anymore.
(12:42):
Like I said, I still, I still like going
to Disneyland especially.
I get super excited,you know, I like Epcot.
I would be happy to goon another Disney cruise.
Um, but I do believe abig factor is like voting,
you know, voting with yourdollar is definitely a thing,
but like public pressure isthe biggest thing of all.
(13:05):
Um, Disney is a hugecorporation like everyone else.
Uh, they want the good press,
but they are not going to change
for their employee'ssake like anyone else.
What they do change for is when the people
that are spending money onthem are giving them a bad rep
and are outraged.
So I kind of said
(13:26):
before about how like the Disneyaudition process, you know,
you couldn't look it up, youcouldn't find stories from
anybody that worked there.
Even now, even now, like there's starting
to be more people like me,
but you'll still see sometimesokay, comments, you know,
I can't believe you wouldsay stuff like this.
You're breaking the magic.
You're not supposed to tellpeople you worked there.
And who does that benefit them?
(13:49):
It only benefits them becausethey wanna keep people quiet
and it's all under theguise of, well, it's part
of the magic, it's part
of protecting the character integrity.
You can't, you can't talk about it. Okay?
Where I don't work thereanymore, I never signed an NDA.
Okay, if I did, they wouldpay me way more money.
So most of the problems is it does,
(14:11):
it comes down to pay, right?
So when I say like, oh,I, I'm unhappy about it,
there was not a single day,not once, not if I was sick,
not if it was hot,nothing where I thought,
I just don't wanna do this anymore.
I don't wanna perform. I don'twanna be the stepsisters.
Um, oh, I played bothstepsisters, so I was cast as Drizella.
Um, and then in the middleof the like training,
(14:32):
they were like, by theway, you're both of them.
It was a wild experience.
So I technically wasnot actually taught how
to be Anastasia till Iwent to Florida again.
They probably don't doit like that anymore.
Uh, but it was 2012,it was, we went rogue.
So I like taught myselfhow to be Anastasia.
Um, so, um, you know, I never, ever,
(14:54):
ever was bored of doing it.
It was com always the internalaspects of it, the way
that management made us feel,
the way the upper levels made us feel.
Um, and it was, it was thepay, it was the pay 10000%.
Uh, so you get a base rate,you have a base rate pay,
which would be like whenyou're a fur character,
or like in my case when I was a host.
(15:16):
And then you get what's called a premium.
If you're, it would belike face pay premium.
So if you came in and you wereworking your face character
that day, you made more money.
Um, which is also why when Idid my special event in Paris,
I actually did it as a fur character.
So, uh, even though I was sent to Paris,
I lost money working that
because I was not getting my face premium.
(15:39):
But if I had been at home,
I would've been making my face premium.
So it's crazy. Um, so with my face premium
in, uh, 2014 in Florida, so again,
when I was in California,I was pretty happy, right?
I technically still had,
I had saved money from student loans.
(15:59):
Uh, I was not old enough todrink. I didn't go out anywhere.
I didn't do anything. All I did was go
to work at Disneyland, was very happy.
Come home, did school on my computer,
and on my day off Iwould go to Disneyland.
So pretty much my biggestexpense would be if I wanted
to eat food at Disneyland.
Um, so I didn't really havetoo much of a problem there.
That being said, was my bedroom a living
(16:20):
room with curtains up?
Yes. And like I said,I didn't, I had a car,
but I didn't drive anywhere.
Uh, I rode my bike to work,so my expenses were very low.
They were very low even thoughI was living in California,
so I didn't really have this problem.
Then, um, in Florida also,
the California minimumwage is higher of course.
So I think I made closer to $15 an hour
(16:43):
and I was a face character.
But when I was in theparade, I made minimum wage
because the premiums workdifferently out there
and I was not paid to talk, which is,
is wild how they get away with that.
Um, so in California,
all the parade performerswanna do meet and greets.
And in Florida all the meet
and greet people wanna do parades.
It's a mess. So I, um, uh,
(17:04):
in Florida I've madeabout $12 in some change.
When I was a face character, uh,
it was like maybe a $2premium or something.
I think I made 10 somethingas a fur character.
And so I had to grapple withthis problem with myself
that I was doing my dream job.
I loved it. I loved my job.
(17:27):
All I did, I realize now it was unhealthy.
All I really did was go towork and come home and watch TV
and then I would go to work.
I didn't even really like goto the parks like for fun,
like on my own or anythinganymore, really at Florida.
But I loved going to work
and I also needed to go to work
'cause I didn't have any money.
(17:48):
Um, but like everyonetalks about dream jobs
and everything growing up.
Oh, follow your dreams.
Even when I was a flight attendant
and I said I wanted to quit,
people were like, well, what's your dream?
What's your dream job?
And I was like, Nope, that doesn't work.
Already had it already did it.
Because when you talk about dream jobs,
everyone always implieslike, your dream job has
to be like a doctor, a lawyer,you know what, whatever,
(18:12):
something, something thatpeople traditionally think of
as making a lot of money.
Okay? What happens when yourdream job pays you $12 an hour?
I was getting paid $12 an hour
and I was like, this is thething I am best at in life.
This is the thing I love the most.
And it was, and I, tothis day, I still think
(18:32):
that is the thing that I was best at.
Um, but I, I couldn't support myself.
And so I had to like look that in the face
and be like, what does that mean?
Um, and I knew that I had tostart looking for another job
when it got to the point whereI was looking in the mirror
and thinking maybe if my nose was cuter,
I could pay my bills better
because the characters that Iplayed had two shifts a day.
(18:55):
Cinderella had about 17 shifts a day.
So you start thinking, wellmaybe if they would let me play
other characters, maybethen I could get overtime.
Which still is not, it'sstill not the right answer.
Obviously Cinderella's notmaking more money than me,
but she had more shift opportunities.
And um, I knew, I knewthat was wrong, that I,
(19:16):
I shouldn't be thinking of myself that way
because when I was in California,maybe for a second, right,
I was like, oh my God,what if they asked me
to be a stepsister becauselike, they think I'm ugly.
And then I was like, that's insane.
Disneyland doesn't hireugly people, right?
Like I said, there waslike, it felt like there was
like 12 people working there.
Um, there was no way. There was no way.
And, uh, fake it till you make it.
(19:37):
I used to think I wasn't funny.
Well, nope, I don't think that anymore.
Uh, and also when you're walking
around jokingly being like,I'm so hot, I'm so pretty.
I'm amazing. The onlyreason I'm not married is
because I'm so picky.
Uh, you start to believe alittle bit of of that stuff.
Like if you're saying that all day
and pretending it's awesome.
(19:58):
Uh, the flip side of thatis when you're in Florida
and you're doing it six days a week
and people are calling you ugly
and nasty to your face,doesn't feel so good,
doesn't feel so good all the time.
And a lot of the other girlsthat I worked with, they played
us princess and a stepsister.
And so for them it'slike, oh man, it's so fun.
You know, I love everyonewanted to be a stepsister
(20:20):
because we could call sayit like it is we're funny.
I I'm gonna make this clear as well.
I would never, ever,ever, ever trade even one
of the stepsisters for a princess.
I would not have beenwilling to give that up.
Like I didn't wanna be Elsa,
but if I had gotten cast as Elsa,
I would've been super thankfulto pay my bills better.
(20:41):
But like I would have triedto trade all my Elsa shifts
for a stepsister for sure.
I would've been grateful,but I still would've
preferred to be a stepsister.
So it was never about being like,
I don't wanna be this character.
I don't like them. Uh, I lovethem so much, I love them
so much and she'll alwaysbe a huge part of me.
It's almost like a chickenin the egg scenario.
I don't know if I'm like this'cause I played her so long
(21:02):
or if that's why I wasso good at playing her
'cause that's just how I am.
Um, but so the thing is,
to this day, as far as Iknow, if there's a girl
that plays a princess
and a stepsister, then she was hired
either both at the same time.
She came in and they werelike, you're gonna be Ariel
(21:23):
and you're gonna be Anastasia or whatever.
Or they started as a princess
and then either, uh,
mentioned they didn't have enough shifts
or they were being agedout of being a princess
and they are given a stepsisteras like a here have that.
Never once has there beena girl that they hired only
(21:45):
as a stepsister that latergot to be a princess.
Make it make sense. If we'reall supposed to look the same
and one girl's allowedto play five princesses
and I'm not allowed to playone, make it make sense, then
how does she look like me?
I look like her. That's nuts,
and then of course it's like, well,
don't take it personally.
Okay. How, how am I supposed to not take
(22:06):
that personally, right?
But I was, I was also like
so brainwashed that Ilike convinced myself.
I'd be like, no, I know, I know
I shouldn't take it personally.
No. I'm allowed to bemad about that and I am.
And it took a really long time for me to
change my thinking from
you're not pretty enough to be a princess.
You're not good enough to be a princess.
(22:28):
Um, and when people would say,oh my gosh, you're too pretty
to be a an ugly stepsister, youshould have been a princess.
And I'd be like, yeah.And I would, I'd be sad
or I'd be angry when peoplewould say stuff like that to me.
'cause it was opening awound I already had, right?
Um, to change my thinking now to
the casting agents are bad at their job.
(22:49):
I look incredible in princesses,but I'm not delusional.
I don't think I look perfectas every single princess,
but there's some that I'mlike, there is no way on earth
that I wasn't, uh, good enough for this.
Like, you guys can't look past makeup,
you can't do anything.
It's crazy. It justdoesn't make any sense.
(23:10):
Um, but yeah, it's that,
and like it's in terms oflike when you said changing
how I felt about the like, oh,
you just have to want it bad enough.
You just have to try harder.
Um, Monsters Universityactually hit me really hard
because that's kind ofMike Wazowski storyline in
that actually, like, Icollect Mike Wazowski stuff,
he's my favorite Disney character.
(23:30):
Um, because you, ofcourse the movie starts
and he's like, I'm gonna be a scarer.
And it's like, no, you're not.
Like, you know that, you knowthat watching the whole movie
that it doesn't matter thatlike he knows more about it,
likes it more than everyone else.
He's not gonna get it.He's never gonna get it
because of other people's opinions on
him that he can't change.
(23:51):
Um, which was ex exactlywhat happened to me.
And what does he do is heends up just changing the
narrative and he kind
of invents his own job that's like better.
And then of course, if youthink about Monsters Inc.
Ultimately at the end of theday, he ends up being the ones
that goes through the door anyhow,
but he's like doing it on his own terms.
So that's why I like him so much.
(24:12):
Um, but that was, thatwas kind of it for me is
that I look back on that andthink I didn't get the job
because I deserved itor because I earned it
or I wanted it harder.
At the end of the day,I was lucky I was in the
right place at the right time.
I was very skinny and I'm white
and they liked what my face looked like.
(24:33):
That's it. And it doesn'tmean that I'm not grateful for
what I did, but it is not this special job
that we should put up on a pedestal
because I did nothing to earnit except look a certain way.
So that's how, that's how Ifeel now is that I would say
that is that like, yeah,you can sit there all day
and be like, oh, just
because, you know, everyone's heard
that speech a million timesat the Disney auditions just
(24:55):
because we, you don't get picked
and we don't think you looklike a cartoon character.
Doesn't mean you're notpretty sure in theory
still gonna make you feel that way.
Anyway,
- In the next clip, Emma Haslamtakes us through her journey
of infertility that ledher to being turned down
for NHS treatment andhaving a baby abroad.
(25:16):
Since then, she has set up her own company
to help people globallyexpand their families.
So can you take us back to kind
of like the beginningwhen you first figured out
that you were infertile
and that you were goingto kind of have to go
through some sort of process
if you wanted to start a family?
- Yeah, sure.
So naively, my husband
(25:37):
and I, Adam, um, we began
trying casually trying after our wedding.
Um, and we'd had a, a very mucha whirlwind dreamy romance.
Um, and you know, would just presume
that it would happen.
Um, like I think lots
(25:57):
of people do just think it'sgonna happen even though
infertility affects like one in,
I think it's one in six in the states
and I think it's one in seven in the UK.
So I mean it, that's alot of people, right?
Um, which is presumably it happened and
after about six months ofcasually trying, we were like,
Hmm, maybe we're notdoing it the right time.
(26:17):
Um, maybe we need to tryall these old wives tales.
And so we kind of went fromcasually trying to really trying
and nothing was happening.
So we were kind of a year in
and how old was I 32 maybe.
So we were like, maybe weshould go to the doctors
(26:39):
and, you know, run some tests.
So we, we did, did that, went to the GP
and um, they ran some tests on both Adam
and I, which indicated
that there were issuespotentially on both sides.
So myself, um, perimenopause and low AMH
and for my husband, low testosterone
(27:01):
and um, low sperm count and motility.
We were then referred to, togynecology to kind of, um,
have a, you know, a furtherlook at us, ran some
tests, did an ultrasound.
I didn't have very many follicles, um,
which when you are more fertile
you would produce morefollicles each month
and in the folliclesare where the eggs are.
(27:23):
Um, so it was a pretty bleak picture
and we were basically told at that point
that we had no chance ofconceiving at all naturally.
Um, and that the only chance we had
would be via IVF
and we had a three to 5%chance of that working.
- So then what was theIVF journey like for you?
(27:45):
- So from kind of receivingthat news, I mean, that was
probably one of the lowestpoints for, for us both in
that journey because not only to be told
that you'll never conceive naturally,
but then to be told, evenwith IVF, you've got a really,
really tiny chance of it working.
But then the next thing was if you,
if you want NHS fundedtreatment, you are entitled
to one round, but you need to lose, um,
(28:07):
you don't work in stones in the US do you,
but, um, I'll have to work it out
what it is in kilograms, a lot of weight.
I had to lose a lot of weight,
six stone if people dounderstand what stones are,
14 pounds in a stone, um, a lot of weight.
And I went away to do that
and I lost the weight over,over kind of a two year process,
(28:28):
um, of healthy eating and exercise.
And then I went back,we went back to be told
that actually the rules hadsince changed in our area
and could I go and loseanother couple of stone,
another sort of 28 pounds?
I was like, not really, no.
And you know, bearing in mind that, uh,
my diagnosis had nothing to do with weight
(28:49):
and it's all about money, you know,
and how the local carecommissioning groups in the
UK choose to spend their money.
So in some areas in theUK you might get three
rounds of funded treatment.
In other areas you'll get none, um,
very much dependent on your postcode,
but also the rules that theyset in terms of who does
and doesn't qualify alsodepends on, on, you know,
(29:09):
the people making the decisionswith the purse strings.
So, um, had I lived likefive miles down the road,
I would've qualified for treatment.
So at that point it kindof stalled our journey
because we, you know, hadgone away, I'd lost this weight
and we very much thought we had a plan
and we were gonna haveNHS funded treatment, um,
(29:30):
to then be told thatactually could I just go
and lose some more weight?
And the thing is, I washealthy, I was very fit.
Um, I mean, I wasn't unhealthy
before that was, that'sthe annoying thing.
But, you know, I didwhat they asked me to do
and time was ticking on, you know, like
if you've got a diagnosis of low AMH
and perimenopause, you don'twanna be hanging around.
(29:51):
Um, so I felt very muchlike time had been wasted.
It was a real kick in the teeth.
Um, and that kind of pausedour journey for a second,
um, while we tried tofigure out what to do.
- So then what made you guyskind of figure out like, hey,
there are options abroad if we, you know,
(30:13):
wanna take it out of the UK?
- Yeah, so I can't rememberwhat the exact moment was
because originally westarted looking at UK private
treatment, but the, you know,
the first thing we we saw was just how,
how extraordinarily expensive it is.
I mean, the states is evenmore expensive than that.
Um, and it's very expensive here.
(30:34):
Um, we knew we had verylow odds of it working.
We knew that once the moneyhad gone, it had gone.
Like we'd moved in with myparents, you know, newlyweds,
and don't get me wrong, it'sprivileged that we could do
that, but also not idealin a small house living
with your parents as newlyweds.
And, and all of the fun stuffstopped like going on holiday
and you know, we wanted to buy a house
and you know, instead we, weplowed money into doing this.
(30:55):
So we, we saved up the money
thinking we would have treatment in the UK
and we had some consultations
and we just didn't reallyfeel the connection with any
of the three clinics in the UK.
And we also found the processof trying to get costings out
of people for treatment really difficult.
(31:17):
And so in one of the cases,like we'd paid, I think,
I mean the dollar and thepound are very similar,
aren't they in amounts at the moment.
So, you know, let's say $300for a consultation for a clinic
that actually when wegot the real costings,
we could never have affordedto have treatment there anyway.
So we spent nearly, you know,
nearly a thousand dollarson consultations at clinics
that we didn't feel a love for.
(31:38):
And we were no further forward
and we just spent moneythat, you know, was there
for our fertility treatment.
It just felt very like cookie cutter.
I don't know, it, it just, yeah, I,
i we just didn't get the feeling.
Um, and it also feltlike a lot of pressure,
like it's not going towork probably in one round,
so why are we doing it?
(31:59):
You know, this just doesn't feel like
it's the right thing to do.
But we weren't sure whatthe right thing to do was.
And we'd explored, um, like adoption
and surrogacy and they didn't feel
like the right options for us.
So I'm not sure why
or what made me typesomething into Google.
(32:20):
I mean, we're both quite well traveled
and you know, like I went at 30, I decided
to pack in my job
and just go around theworld traveling by myself.
I happened to meet Adam likethree weeks before I did that.
And he then joined me about six months in.
But I think we're both, we're not phased
by going to other countries.
(32:42):
And you know, there is sometimesI think a thought that,
you know, we we're very luckywith like the NHS in the UK
we've got very high standards
of healthcare like lotsof other countries have.
But sometimes that can make you think, oh,
but is it gonna be safe elsewhere?
Is it gonna be as good elsewhere?
And of course you've gottabe careful where you go
and you've gotta do your research.
Um, but you know, we wereopen to the fact that
(33:05):
there will be other places inthe world that also do this
and do it really, really well.
Um, but really
the only stories we'd everheard about people going abroad
for treatment was aroundthings like cosmetic surgery,
which obviously IVF isn't,
but, you know, goingabroad, having a procedure
(33:26):
like the teeth done or something
and it's gone completely wrong
and you'd read, you know,you'd see an article in
a newspaper about that.
I mean, there will havebeen, you know, hundreds
of thousands of otherpeople that have gone abroad
and had the same procedureprobably at a different clinic,
um, and had a great experience,
but you never heard those stories, right?
You just hear those kind of scary stories.
Um, so I had heard those
(33:47):
and I remember when I saidto my mom, like, I, I'd,
I'd just started looking online
and um, I remember saying to my mom,
you know, we might go abroad.
And she was absolutely horrified.
She was like, no, don't do that.
Like, how do you know it's gonna be safe?
And you know, and she wasquite right in what she said
because how did I know?
And while I did a lot of my own research,
I didn't really know ifI'm honest, you know,
(34:09):
back then we were vulnerable and desperate
and, you know, I I could justsee the cost savings was were
so significantly less and,you know, we liked traveling
and I was like, well look,we're just gonna explore
it and we're gonna just see.
Um, so those kind ofGoogle searches led us
(34:30):
to booking some consultationswith clinics abroad
and um, I think the three thatwe had were actually free.
So there was like no cost just to kind
of dipping your toes inand, and and seeing, and,
and I am a natural researcher,so I had done as much kind
of homework as I could withthe knowledge that I had then.
Um, but we had the consultations
(34:50):
and it just felt completely different.
Like, first of all,
I didn't feel like I was beingjudged on my BMI, my weights,
um, and it felt much more holistic.
Um, I felt like a clientI felt listened to,
not judged, and it was just
a completely different experience.
And that was the sameat all three clinics.
(35:12):
Um, you know, the coordinatorswho are the people
who you deal with at the end of the, um,
at your case holder, atthe end of the, the emails,
you know, the, the English was brilliant,
really efficient, so helpful.
Um, and yeah, it just feltlike the right thing to do.
It was very easy to getthe costings from them.
So it was very, you know, clear
(35:35):
that it was certainly so much cheaper.
And as far as I was aware fromthe research that I've done,
you know, there werea, a regulated clinic,
a registered clinic, ahighly regarded clinic, um,
and a short, you know, a shortflight for us into Europe.
Um, and so we decided thatwe were going to do it much
(35:56):
to the horror
and disgust about parents who were,
I think genuinely very worried.
I mean, now they're like obviously.
They're like, go abroad,go and chat to Emma.
Um, but you know, I can, Ican see the fear and, and,
and if I'm honest, we were alittle bit uncertain as well,
you know, we, we felt reassured enough
obviously to go ahead and do it.
(36:17):
But, you know, it was alittle bit of a leap of faith
because we didn't have anywhere,anywhere to turn to kind
of get the information andsupport that we needed.
But we desperately wanted to, to do this.
Um, and we knew that this gave us,
you know, the best chances.
The clinic had great successrates, no waiting lists.
And, you know, we wantedto, to get on with it.
(36:39):
And thankfully we did choose to go abroad
'cause we did need three rounds.
And on the third round our son was born.
So had it, you know, hadwe have had it in the UK,
there was no more money thanwe wouldn't have our son today.
So yeah.
- These final clips come from my episode
with Arcadia Ewell at the timeof recording, she was serving
as Miss Boston 2023 and a thirdyear psychology PhD student.
(37:03):
These clips share just a piece of
what was going on inher life at that time.
So when did your MissAmerica journey start?
- Very early, actually.
I, so Miss America has asister program called the Miss
America's Teen Program.
So I actually started as a teen.
I was 15, I think,sophomore of high school.
(37:24):
I had an older friendand she was competing
and I just wanted to doeverything that she did.
And so I kind of joined in and,
and they call it the bug a little bit.
'cause once you do it, onceyou're just, you're hooked
and you never wanna stop .
And so I have competed severaltimes, not consecutively,
like there's been times I've taken a year
or two off to really focus on school.
(37:45):
And then I've come back
and just this past yearactually, the age limit
for which you could competein Miss America stopped at
25 years old.
And so I turned 26 in October.
So I thought I was done,I was out, I was finished.
And they raised the age limit.
A brand new Miss America rule.
The age limit to compete forMiss America is now 18 to 28,
(38:08):
which is really incredible
because it kind of acknowledges the fact
that women are pursuing theireducation later in life.
They're going for higher degrees,they're going for masters
and PhDs, uh,
and Miss America is there tosupport them with scholarships.
So I got this second chance to kind
of come back and compete again.
And two weeks later I was Miss Boston.
So that was pretty cool.
(38:29):
- And so how are youable to balance the work
of Miss Boston with being a PhD
student?
- Wonderful question. Somedays it's easier than others.
I am at the place in my PhDwhere I'm actually starting
to think about my dissertation.
In a couple months I will belaunching my own research study
to collect my dissertation data.
(38:50):
And so there are some days thatthat can be quite stressful.
Uh, but the good thing about a PhD is
that nobody is hanging overyour shoulder, making sure
that you're checkingyour time sheet, right?
As long as I get my workdone, my boss does not care
what hours of the day that that happens.
And so some days I am out nine
(39:12):
to five doing my job as MissBoston, I am out at schools,
I'm out volunteering
or making connections withdomestic violence organizations,
and then I come home and I eat dinner,
and then I do my homework
or I do whatever kind ofdeadlines I need to be working on.
I think that if you really want something,
you find ways to make it work.
(39:33):
And so I just always remindmyself that what I do
as Miss Boston is actuallytransferrable skills
that will help me get a job after my PhD.
And my PhD is transferrable skills
that I can talk about inmiss in my Miss Massachusetts
interview that make me preparedto become Miss Massachusetts
so they're not in in competition
(39:54):
with each other in that sense.
- So then assuming you're goinginto like the science route
post PhD degree.
And whenever your journey does end
with the Miss America universe, whether
that's in the near future
or the farther future, how are you going
(40:15):
to continue your advocacywork for domestic
violence?
- Wonderful, wonderful question.
So my ultimate goal, I do plan to
leave academia
and I wanna go into moreof a policy centered world.
I wanna make sure thatwe are creating policies
that are really informedand backed by science.
(40:37):
And so there are a lot ofoffices right now within the
government that do really focuson adolescent sex education.
They really focus onrelationship education,
they focus on domesticviolence prevention.
And so ultimately I'd loveto be able to end up there
and I'd love to be able to saythat I have the quantitative
and qualitative skills asa researcher from my years
(40:58):
as a PhD, but I alsohave the policy skills.
I have the advocacy skills,
I have the lobbying skillsfrom my years in Miss America
that I am perfectly suitedfor this job right here.
And so that's what I mean when I say
that they're not incompetition with each other
because both of these realms are going
to eventually feed into
what I wanna do for the rest of my life.
(41:27):
- All right. That bringsthis episode to a close.
Like previous times, I willbe providing the relevant
episode titles and resources
for the episodes you heard clips from
today in the description.
And of course, thank you fortaking the time out of your day
to hear some clips from some old stories.
Until next time, bye.
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