November 10, 2023 • 61 mins
Lauren Seidman entered college with a well thought out plan. Work hard, use her intellect to the fullest, take the LSAT, and build a strong career. The plan was to do what she felt she was "supposed to do". You know, live a normal life. But life had other plans for Lauren. In feeling the disconnected from her work in consulting Lauren strove to find a career that filled her with passion and inspiration, she made the tough decision of leaving her job and embarked on an unexpected journey towards becoming a childbirth educator.
Lauren’s transition from consulting to childbirth education wasn’t smooth, with stigma and judgment surrounding her decision to leave a promising career and to become a stay at home mom. Yet, she persevered, recognizing that life isn’t about choosing between one path or another, but more about finding harmony and compromise between your strengths and passions. Today Lauren is the driving force behind the Birth Positive Childbirth Education program.
Lauren's Website
https://bebirthpositive.com/
Lauren's Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/birth_positive
To hear Lauren's Birth Stories
https://prenatalyogacenter.com/community-birth-story-from-hospital-birth-to-home-birth-with-lauren-seidman/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode
of Intuitive Choices.
I'm Kim.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
And I'm Jacob.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
And today we are super pumped because we have
with us Lauren Seidman.
Jacob, tell us a little bitabout our gal here.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
So let me tell you I've been so excited to have
Lauren on.
I've wanted to have her on fora while now, and the reason I'm
so excited is because Lauren isa birth educator, childbirth
educator.
She is the creator andfacilitator of the birth
positive childbirth educationprogram system.
Whatever language you're goingto use that, but I'll tell you
(00:45):
that my wife and I arepersonally grateful to Lauren
for her help with us bringingour she's facilitated, she
helped facilitate, shefacilitated.
We had fantastic classes withLauren and let me tell you, even
though I consider myself likenot the most uneducated person
in the world and I had healthclasses in high school and my
wife herself is a doctor Laurenstill taught us so much about
(01:07):
not only how children come intothe world, but what our choices
and options are with childrencoming into the world, and she
gave us so much confidence andclarity in what choices we had.
And when my wife was givingbirth to our son, many nurses
and doctors said I can't believe.
This is your first kid.
(01:28):
You're doing great.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Which we're attributing, it sounds like,
directly to Lauren.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
To Lauren and certainly my wife.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
But she did do all the work.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
She was incredible.
Anyway, we want to welcome you,lauren.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
This is so awesome because I think we're going to
talk about some important stufftoday.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Thank you so much for having me and thank you for
that very generous introduction.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
You deserve much more .
Speaker 1 (01:54):
We just don't have the time, all right.
But, here's the thing, right,this was a career change for you
.
My understanding I don't knowmuch about you, but my
understanding is you did a wholeother thing with your life
before you became a childbirtheducator.
Slash doula, right.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yes, that is correct All right.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
So how did it start?
What was life like before beinga childbirth educator?
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Great question.
I will give a little backgroundstory.
Well, first of all, certainlywhen I was asked in elementary
or middle school, what do youwant to be when you grow up, it
was not a childbirth educator,okay, I don't think that was
ever on my radar.
Really, I always thought Iwanted to be a lawyer.
(02:49):
That was my answer to thatquestion what do you want to be
when you grow up?
I want to be a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
What do you want to know?
Yeah, from how old?
Where does?
That come from Sounds like avery confident, I guess, high
school.
High school time, maybe before.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
I don't remember exactly that?
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Do you know why?
What inspired you to want to bea lawyer, though?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
That's actually an interesting way to word that
question.
What inspired you to want to bethat?
I grew up in a very nicetypical Jewish family where
lawyer, doctor, any sort ofprofessional little
stereotypical there.
My dad is a physician.
(03:34):
I wanted to have thisprofessional career path because
that was kind of normal.
That's what people do?
You go to college and maybe youget a graduate degree.
I felt like okay.
(03:55):
I don't mind arguing and provingmy point.
I'm smart and I could get intolaw school, so why don't I just
try to do that?
Then, when it came to applyingfor college, you kind of have to
niche yourself into what yourfuture aspirations are.
I just landed on that.
After college, I ended upgetting introduced to consulting
(04:24):
as a career path I focused on.
My major was called Industrialand Labor Relations, which is
just a fancy way of saying studyof the workplace.
A lot of people either go intoa labor law with that degree or
they go into consulting or otherthings too, obviously, but a
lot of people go into aconsulting path and I started to
(04:45):
get more interested inconsulting.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Where were you in college?
Speaker 3 (04:49):
I went to Cornell.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Was it at Cornell?
Was this like a hot, major kindof thing?
Do you feel like there's a lotof people going towards it?
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Basically, if you think you want to go to law
school, you do this major.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Okay, that's interesting More or less.
You were really hell bent onpursuing or being an attorney.
You were like, okay, I'm doingit yeah yeah, okay, right, I'm
looking back now.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
I'm not sure that I felt like, oh, this really fits
my personal identity and itreally gets me excited inside.
It was more just like thisseems interesting enough and
like I could do it so I'm justgonna try to pursue that.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Yeah, and this is interesting enough, but like
it's so.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
When Kim asked if you were inspired, yeah, yeah, it
does not sound like.
That is the yeah, inspireddefinitely applies to what I do
now, but not what I was thinkingI was gonna do that yeah, was
inspiration something that likespoke to you, that anyone like
ever highlight the importance ofbeing inspired, or were ever
around someone who you felt wasinspired?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Good question, I don't know.
Yeah, I'm thinking.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Lauren, if you have to think that hard, yeah, the
answers probably no, you know,and that's okay, right, because
what you're, what it'shighlighting is, I think, like
the culture you grew up in,right, all of these things, sort
of like there was a narrative,right.
Like this is what you do, thisis what six, you know, I don't
mean to speak for you, so if anyof this doesn't resonate, just
(06:38):
say it.
But like this is what successlooks like, this is, this is,
this is what it means to like dolife well is like you go to
college, you go to a greatcollege, you work hard and you
like do one of these, like youknow, pretty like yeah nice
professions, right?
quote-unquote, because there's alot of people who don't like
them and so and it sounds likethat was a little bit like that
(07:01):
for you right, I think that'sthat's pretty accurate did you
get any satisfaction out of?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I'm trying to think of better words for this, but
did you get any satisfaction oflike or comfort?
Maybe were you.
Were you comforted by knowingyou were doing what you were
like quote-unquote supposed todo?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
and that's a good question, I I think so.
It definitely felt it's feltsafe in quotes that was approved
in quotes, you know yeah likestamp of approval.
You know this is like anacceptable career path yeah,
(07:43):
okay because it's a respectedcareer, you can make a decent
living and it shows people thatyou're smart and you have, you
know, a good degree on your walland all of those things yeah,
like, yeah, like you're good onpaper.
Yeah, it's good on paper yeahand I, you know, I definitely
(08:06):
think like intellectually, Ifound it interesting and
stimulating.
But when you use the verbinspirate, inspired, I'm not
gonna say that I felt inspiredin a in a emotional way.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I will say that it I I'm at least I'm grateful for
you that at least it was enjoy.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
There's parts of it that were enjoyable, right for
sure yeah it wasn't like you'reforced to do this and you have
to do it whether you like it ornot.
I definitely had an interest init.
I just don't think thatinterest came from a place of of
.
This really excites me in adeep way it was more just like
this is one of the available.
(08:50):
This is like one of the careerpaths that I felt like was
normal in my circles and I foundit intellectually stimulating.
So there definitely was that.
You know, I did take my LSATs.
I found it fun to take theLSATs.
Lsats are fun.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I don't know.
I have never heard anyone saythat no, I know so I know a lot
of people took the LSATs so do I, and that's a first.
It's so funny to think thatthere's these people who took
the LSAT and hated it and arelawyers and you took the.
Lsat and enjoyed it and are nota lawyer yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Did you end up going to law?
Speaker 3 (09:23):
school?
No, I didn't.
But the results are good forfive years, so I took it.
I took it when I was a seniorin college, just so I could have
it if I ever decided to go backso it was the what was the step
post college yeah, post college, right.
So I started saying that I gotintroduced to consulting through
one of the career fairs that wehad.
I found out about specificallyDeloitte consulting, which is a
(09:46):
big professional services firm,and I just I connected with the
people that worked there.
I thought it was an interestingtype of work to do and I I
guess I at a certain point Idon't remember exactly when I
feel like I got a little bitless convinced that I wanted to
go to law school.
So I was kind of like I don'twant to go to law school
(10:10):
necessarily right after college,let me see if I can get a job
with Deloitte and applied for,obviously, other jobs too.
I went to, was like putting onmy egg someone basket, but they
were my first choice and I endedup just applying for HR jobs,
hr consulting jobs, and was like, okay, I'm gonna do that and if
I ever decide I want to go backto law school then I will.
(10:32):
I think I realized like lawschool is like very expensive
and three years and if I wasn'tsure, then that didn't really
make a lot to do that.
Yeah, like you got to be sure,it's like a huge, big commitment
financially and time-wise.
So I wasn't sure.
I ended up getting a job withDeloitte, and I started working
there right after I graduatedcollege so what does it mean?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
what is it?
What kind of consultant?
Speaker 3 (10:55):
it's called human capital what is that?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
like, yeah, what is that?
It really quickly.
What is that?
What does it even do?
Speaker 3 (11:05):
what does that mean?
Yeah, so human capital meansthat that we help companies
tackle problems related to theirworkforce.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Oh okay, does that mean like, yeah, maintaining a
workforce?
That mean like keeping peoplehappy while they're working for
you.
Finding employees like what'sthat entail?
Speaker 3 (11:23):
everything.
I mean everything.
There's HR technology, thereare HR, you know, restructuring
if there's mergers, a merger,acquisition, how to integrate
the new employees, like there'sthey're.
They work with large companieson large projects.
Anything you could think ofthat relates to employees.
We basically did that so whatdid?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
what did you do personally?
Speaker 3 (11:47):
personally like day to day.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I mean not every day, but, like you know, I like my
focus.
Yeah, um.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
I I did a few different things, I guess.
When I first started, I workedon a project that was related to
um you really want to know.
It was like merger in themergers and acquisitions space,
um and then, after that, Iworked on a project related to
(12:14):
helping a company redesign theirpayroll system.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Like how they pay their employees.
Can I just, can I interject,really?
Speaker 1 (12:23):
quickly Because you're so I don't even know you.
This is my second conversationwith you in life and you're so
personable and the work that youdo now is so like, human
centered and even just a littlebit.
That you're describing soundsso removed from the human
connection, was it yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Yeah, that's like very on point.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Oh, my goodness, and like, whoa, like, and the thing
is there.
There are really things in lifewhere, like you can't know
something's not a fit untilyou're in it and I feel like
that's right.
That's like everything thatwe're saying right now about
your life, right, like you knowthe you know applying for law
school, if you were going to dothat, and like going through
college, and it's just like youcan't know what, what a deep and
(13:11):
meaningful experience is untilyou have one to know that, what
that feels like.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 3 (13:18):
So, true, yes, and it's like, that's like what?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
your pride.
It just feels like, like yourprocess is just like unfolding
in that direction.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Right, I think that's very fair yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Can you think of any moments while at Deloitte where
you just felt like this Maybenot be the right place for you?
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Yeah, I definitely had those moments, um I just I
didn't feel like I just I feltlike sometimes I didn't.
I just didn't feel like soconnected to what I was doing
like.
I would, I could do it, but Ididn't feel like passionate
about it.
And then I would see otherpeople who were like Super
(13:55):
passionate about and then superinto it, and then I'm like is
there something wrong with me?
Speaker 2 (13:59):
It's funny that you say like that the question
turned back on you like is theresomething wrong with me?
Because honestly I would thinklike, is there something wrong
with them?
Like I think that's like.
I felt that working in otherplaces in the past, like how can
anyone like this?
I guess that's.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
I guess that's fair.
I there was probably enoughthose thoughts too.
But you know what?
There's something for everyoneout there, and different people
get their energy from differentthings.
So I had a few times like that.
You know I would have likemanagers or who are really into
their work.
And you know, at a big firmlike Deloitte, there are people
(14:36):
at partner level who have beenat the firm for years and years
and years, like you would thinkyou know they really like what
they do.
Okay, that's a wholeconversation we could have.
You know, it's not necessarilytrue, but there were definitely
people who were like deeplyinvested in their work and
really like Genuinely liked itand like the client
relationships and all the things.
Um, and I just sort of feltlike it got to a point where it
(15:00):
was like enough times I was, Iwas like okay, I feel like I'm.
This doesn't resonate with meand I feel like I have to fake
it and if and if I'm gonna be atthe shop every single day, I
can't do that anymore.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
What did um like, what did faking it look like and
who were you faking to like?
We're faking to yourself.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
You're faking to co-workers like what, what I
look like both like I guess tocall it co-workers just like
just going about the motions butnot really feeling so
passionately about it um, and Ithink sort of like.
So basically, I started workingthere and then In 2012, and then
in 2015, I had my son, mm-hmm,and so I think I Not I think I
(15:43):
know what started happening wasthat I was having these doubts
about is this really the rightcareer path for me?
But then, on top of that,having a child and starting my
family, bummed they but.
(16:22):
I don't quote me on that, butshe basically was saying you
know, your kids are your kidsare always going to win.
Basically, in terms of, like,what would you?
Where would you rather be?
Like, would you rather be withyour kids or would you rather be
at work?
Most parents are going to saylike they want to spend time
with their kids.
However, the reality for mostparents is that you are going to
(16:43):
have a job, so whatever jobyou're doing needs to be like a
really strong pull.
Yeah, I feel like that.
That really started to come upfor me, like I'm really pulled
to be with my kids more.
Okay, so if I'm going to beleaving them to do a job outside
of the home, it became muchmore important for me to feel
(17:06):
like, yeah, I'm really connectedto what I'm doing outside the
home.
Yes, does that make sense Of?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
course I I I cannot believe, like I've been a dad
for eight months Wow.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
That's so not a lot of time.
I've never heard a phrase thatway.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, but I'm actually just transitioning into
thinking of myself as a dadinstead of someone with a kid.
Good for you, Jacob, that's astep, but.
But even like I'm very gratefulthat I love being a therapist,
but I just I cannot believe how,again, how short I've been a
dad and how much.
I know what you're saying istrue.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
And yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Especially an eight month old.
That's like the cutest age ofall time.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I'll send you some pictures.
He is so cute, it's crazy, andhe knows it.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Guys, can I just say I've been a mom, because I want
to say it in the exact same waythat you just did, because I
think it's interesting.
I've been a mom for 15 and ahalf years.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, oh wow, that is a lot of years.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, how many, how many years, lauren, have you
been a mom?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Guys I love saying it this way, it's so great.
So so, how many kids do youhave?
Four, four, oh my God, that'sso ambitious.
Good for you, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
What's the?
Speaker 1 (18:21):
I can't even see from her.
I wonder what face she justmade when she went yeah, she's
both smiling and tired.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Smiling and sighing.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yeah, how?
Because we're going to segueinto, like the child-worth
education and stuff like this,because I think it's going to be
, it's natural.
But how old are you?
All of like in the ages?
Speaker 3 (18:42):
So my oldest, he'll be eight.
I mean he'll be eight inDecember.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
And then my next, my daughter.
She just turned six.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
And then I have another daughter who's three and
a half, and then my littlest heis 15 months.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Yes, it's fun.
Good for you.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
It's so funny I can't believe.
I never thought I'd feel thisway, but like I love babies now,
I didn't know that was going tohappen.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
You didn't love babies before.
No, I didn't either.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
To be quite honest, yeah, yeah, I love my babies
when you get to know a baby youreally appreciate them more.
When, when you're telling, likejust touching on the fact how,
after after becoming a mom, thatyou felt like the consulting
work was not enough to continueto, it just was losing out every
time, essentially 100%.
Um, I had a supervisor when Iwas at Memorial Sloan Kettering,
(19:32):
as when I was a researchassistant who had her second
child while I was working forher, I think, and one day she
was on maternity leave for awhile.
Then she came back and one dayshe calls me into a meeting and,
to be perfectly honest, I don'tknow if I was the best
supervisee to her.
Um and uh, we had a uh, she waslike it seemed like a very
(19:55):
serious meeting and I thought Iwas about to get in trouble,
honestly.
And then she kind of said howlike she was reducing her
workload to like I forget if shesaid like two days a week or
three days a week because shewanted to spend more time with
her kids.
And I was like, oh, that's,that's great, that's awesome.
And she like got shocked and shewas like, well, why do you say
(20:16):
that?
And I was like, well, what'smore important in life than,
like, raising kids?
Like that's the whole point.
Like, if you have kids.
Like don't, don't you want toraise them.
And she like I think I disarmedher a little bit because I I
could just tell that she wasgetting so much pushback from
either like friends and familyor even colleagues that like how
can you be like you're a,you're a woman living in
(20:38):
Manhattan, you're really goingto pick your kids over your
career, like we work so hard toget here?
But she's what she said to me.
She said she was not getting alot of support in making this
decision and she said the thingthat broke the camel's back for
her was they were out at like aplayground with her and a friend
and like the nannies were therewith all the kids and the kid
(20:59):
fell.
One of the kids fell and hurt,hurt his knee and he ran over to
the nanny instead of to the momand she was like I do not want
this relationship with my kids.
I want, I want to be the onethey run to.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
And that's such a hard balance for for modern
working parents to strike Like.
That is it's it's painful.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
It's really hard.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
So did you leave consulting after you had?
Did you say you left after yourfirst child was born?
I did not.
I kept working.
Okay, so it's to say a littlebit more.
So how?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
long did it?
Speaker 1 (21:37):
take you to finally be like look, I need to have a
conversation with my husbandbecause this is great, so he was
born in 2015,.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
two Deloitte's credit , and I do.
I do want to say on the airthat they are one of the
companies that is very good toparents.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Great.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
They have six months fully paid parental leave.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Wow, and they are really one of the companies that
I wish other companies would belike that.
So I do want to say that I'm ofa lot of gratitude to the way
that they, you know, try to helpsupport working parents.
But to their credit, you know,I, after I had Aliahou that's my
(22:27):
son, he, they let me have moreflexibility.
So typically in consultingyou're traveling, and this is
all pre COVID.
Okay, so now, post COVID, I'mstarting it's all different, but
pre COVID it's you're travelingthree, you're out of, you're
not home, three nights a weekYou're traveling.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Monday to Thursday night.
That's like standard every week.
That's a lot.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
So they put me on a project where I have more
flexibility so I didn't have totravel like that.
I had to travel sometimes, butnot like that.
They did try to work with me.
So I worked on that projectuntil I got pregnant with
Shoshana, my older daughter, andthen I went out on maternity
(23:10):
leave and it was six monthsmaternity leave and then I tried
talking to them while I was onmaternity leave.
At that point it's really theKim, it was like just to answer
your question.
At that point it was kind oflike okay, what are we going to
do here?
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Because I was already starting to feel like that's
your chance, right, you break up.
It's the look, it's a breakupmoment, exactly.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
I was like still having.
I remember when I was reallypregnant with Eliaho, I went
into the office one day and heat that time they're less than
two years apart, so at that timehe was like 18 months or 19
months, which is like the mostadorable, yummy age of all time.
Okay, I said that about eightmonths, but like this little
young toddler, age is old.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
I remember- you can tell she just like, lives and
breathes for being a mom,because every age is going to be
like this is the firstgeneration.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Tell me about 18 months.
That was it.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Yum, I remember leaving my apartment one day and
he was sitting in the strollergoing to school and my daddy was
gonna walk Into school and Ijust remember like how cute he
looked in the stroller and Iwent that into my office and I
just there's a like a malepartner there and I just who I
knew?
And I said hide him.
And I just like lost it, like Ihad a full breakdown crying, so
I was like I want to be with mykid, like this is just crazy.
(24:24):
He was so cute so I I knew I andit was.
I started getting like jealousof my nanny.
I guess it's similar, jacob, ohthat's interesting.
Yes, yeah, I was like that's notfair.
She spent so much time with him, I want to spend time with him.
So, anyway, and I had to shana.
I was on maternity leave forsix months.
I spoke to HR and all thepeople I needed to speak to.
(24:44):
I was on maternity leave to seelike what the flexibility would
be.
I try to go.
I tried to go back on a reducedworkload, like your boss did,
and that wasn't really.
It wasn't really possible atthat time.
Again, I was.
I was placed on a project thatoffered more flexibility so I
wouldn't have to travel, whichwas good.
(25:04):
But then, like Six months intome going back to work, like when
she, shana, was one, I it waslike I had enough.
I was like I can't do thisanymore.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Because then it's what was the thing that happened
?
I feel like something happened.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Yeah, so.
So I think what happened was acouple things.
One is, even though I wasn'ttraveling, the project I was on
was still pretty demanding, okay, and so just that needing to be
like very available for, formeetings and for clients Started
to get really challenging Inconjunction with the fact that
(25:41):
my husband actually started anew job when Shoshana was born,
so he was a year into his newjob and his job was also super
demanding.
Okay and he had no flexibility.
So it started to become like ifany, if we needed anything, if,
if we needed to get anythingdone for the kids.
It kept falling on me, like justtaking them to the doctor or to
(26:04):
you picking them up from school, or if they got sick, or, and
then I would get and do itworked with me.
They're like you can Sign offearly, be home with your kids,
like in the afternoon hours,like the four to seven time, and
then like I was logging backonline at night to finish work
and it was just like Somethinghas to give, like I can't.
(26:25):
This is just it's just it'sunsustainable.
It was not sustainable.
Yeah, and I wanted to say also,I think part of that, now that
I'm like more removed from it, Ilike look back and I'm just
yeah, obviously that was notsustainable, but I think part of
this one thing that made ithard, or makes it hard is it's
(26:47):
feeling like is there's likeagain, like is there something
wrong with me that I can'tfigure this out, because it
seems like so many people aremaking this work and it.
It wasn't about like hiringmore help or getting more
nannies.
It was it.
It was just like my Quality oflife was just like.
This is not.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
I I see this so much with the clients that I have,
the mom clients that I have thatare that are working, working
in Incorporate you know jobs andhave the kids.
Yeah, this is such a I mean Icannot count how many times in
session I've heard somebody gobut all there, I see all these
people doing it and I always say, yeah, you see them doing it on
(27:30):
Facebook you know, Instagram,but, like you know you, it's
like it is so hard to do andthat time has to come that
energy and time is not infinite.
It's not an infinite amount oftime and energy that we have, so
it has to get pulled fromsomewhere.
And when you get to that pointin your life, which you clearly
(27:52):
did when Shoshana was a year old.
It was like it becomes almostlike this, it is epiphany,
almost where you're just like Ican't.
There's nothing left to give.
You know what I mean to thisthing and I have to find the
energy and space to do itsomewhere.
So something has to stop, likeyou have to stop doing a thing.
It sounds like you stopped.
(28:13):
You know, like you were likealright, this time stop to end
this relationship with this,with this job, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
If I could, I could I say a question the opposite way
.
Then it's so palpable how muchyou love your children.
Yeah, and how much you lovebeing a mom.
So what was the pull?
To stay at the Lloyd as long asyou did.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Oh, interesting, um good one.
I think that.
Why did I say as long as I did?
I think I wanted to try, Ithink I wanted the like,
satisfaction I guess for lack ofa better word satisfaction of
knowing I tried everything firstlike I tried to work with them
(28:57):
on the flexibility peace youknow.
I tried to Work while my kidswere in school and then be with
them in the afternoon, and thenworking like I wanted to feel.
I tried all the things beforeCutting.
You know, cutting the courseit's like.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
It's like you knew it's it would not.
I don't think it would be afair question to me to that ask.
You know, like well, if youcould go back and do it again,
would you just left in thebeginning?
Because that's, that'sridiculous.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
No, you have to do right.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
You had to, you had to go through the steps and
confirm with yourself at each,each step.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
No, no, no, you, you first, and then I'll ask my
question.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Go ahead and I think there's also just this.
I Think there's just this likestigma, like quitting your job
like you have a good job.
Why are you gonna quit that job?
Speaker 1 (29:48):
You want to know.
I was gonna ask you they gaveyou six months maternity right.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
They, you know they just ask for your life in return
you what they just asked foryour whole life in return.
I, I was gonna ask, maybe Iknow you know it didn't look
like you agreed with that, soI'm gonna let you respond to
that, because I don't want tospeak for you your whole life.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Yeah, I think that's like a little bit extreme.
Yeah but it's.
I Felt like I was giving a lotof my energy and at a certain
point, especially once we had asecond kid, we started to also
do the math about child care andLike yeah my salary and it was
(30:26):
like salary versus child careversus and also salary versus
sanity.
Am I, am I getting, and is theamount of money that I'm earning
worth it for the amount thatthis is affecting my Sanity?
(30:48):
yeah, and we got to the pointwhere I was just like no, I also
.
I also don't believe that whenpeople anyone listening to this,
you know, I think when you makethat Calculation of child care
costs versus salary, I do notthink that it should only come
from the wife's side Just saying, yeah, but in my situation it
(31:14):
was not just me versus childcare and I wanted to work, but
it didn't make sense.
That wasn't it.
It was like child carecompensation and quality of life
and sanity, like there was alsothat piece to it.
You know what I mean.
I don't want anyone to belistening to me like, okay, well
, I love my job, but I don't getpaid enough.
(31:35):
I only get paid enough to paymy babysitter.
So maybe I should quit too.
Like, no, I definitely it'salso this part of like feeling
your soul, like how does itaffect you?
Speaker 1 (31:42):
I think for me, like when I first had Molly, my
paycheck went to child care andI knew for myself, but I was a
therapist, right, and I knew.
I always have known for myselflike I need to do this.
I have to do this work.
I have to.
But, speaking, going back tothe stigma of it, the question I
(32:03):
was going to ask you, I think,is connected to the question,
which is, like, do you feel likethere was some ego involved in
you feeling like you know, likeI need to stay at this job, you
know like this, like, oh, I likefailed at this, or there's a
stigma around you know thosekinds of?
That's what I was going to askyou.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Yeah, it's like oh, you went to an Ivy like school
and now you're a stay at homemother.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
There it is, ooh.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
That drives me nuts.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
I get so like like give me a, like a pit in my
stomach just hearing you saythat out loud.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
I mean, I still, I still feel that on some level,
that's totally fair andunderstandable.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
But, like I, this is like the idealist, like in me is
just like there literallycannot be anything more
important to humanity or acivilization than the caretaking
of children.
That has to literally be themost important thing, and I just
(33:02):
wish that it would be valuedmore by a society.
It's like I don't know if thisis because I grew up in a family
of teachers, or because, like Ireally felt, like I was like
the center of-.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
You've always wanted to be a grandpa too.
And I always wanted to be agrandfather.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
That's true, and I felt like I was at the center of
my mom's life but like I'm soex, I was so excited to.
I think I've spoken to thisbefore.
But, like so much of me,changing my life was because I
wanted to be a grandfather.
Therefore, I had to learn howto be like myself and learn how
to be a grandfather, and I hadto be like myself and learn how
to be a husband and then learnhow to be a father, and then
(33:40):
learn.
I always learned all of them,but I just really felt for what
you said.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I also just wanted to touch base on what you were
saying about gosh.
I just love that you said it.
I went to an Ivy League schooland I'm just a stay at home mom
Because the thing is and while Iagree with Jacob, like there's
such, if you choose to become aparent, valuing that and having
(34:09):
a society that supports that, isimportant, but also recognizing
too that, like, life isn'tabout making choices that are
one or the other, that like,because you went to an Ivy
League school, this means you'resupposed to have that.
This is like an equation right,ivy League school or, let's
just say, college, right,bachelor's degree, anybody?
Right?
It's like I hear this again.
(34:30):
It's like such a common theme inthe conversations I have with
so many of my clients over theyears that it's like just
because of this doesn't meanthat anything is a waste, a
waste of time.
It's because it's all anaccumulation, everything we've
ever experienced, right Likeit's just it's a part of where
(34:52):
you are in this exact moment.
So it's like going to Cornellfor so many different reasons is
a part of who you are today,right?
So yeah, I just don't thinkit's a just don't think it's
like, I don't think it's amathematical equation.
I think it's all a part of.
It just becomes a part of yourstory, you know.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
As you live your life .
I think, yeah, I think that is,I think that's important for, I
think, people to hear, andvalidating for me personally, oh
, good, and I do think that thatwas part of my hesitation in
(35:40):
leaving my job.
Yeah, like I can't quoteunquote, give up that easily.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
But it certainly was not easy.
But you also did it Like youovercame, like stigma and like
some weird, like I don't know ifit counts as a sunk cost
fallacy, but like having gone toNaive League school and now
taking this next step.
And then not only did that, itsounds like those choices helped
you align with who you felt youwere in that moment.
But then, if you know, if wehave this context of like work
(36:08):
is something that you, as aparent, work is something that
you should feel drawn to, inaddition to being drawn to your
kids, then you create your ownfield as a childbirth educator.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
So wait is that wait so how did that happen?
Speaker 3 (36:27):
Like what's the?
Can you explain the transition?
How'd you go from consulting tochildbirth education?
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Different kind of consulting one-on-one consultant
.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
So how did I get into the childbirth educator role?
So I, when I was pregnant withEliahou, I started, like any
other first time parent, tryingto do the research and learn
what I could, and I started toget interested in birth
(36:58):
information and birth experience.
But then so my birth with himwas it was fine.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Can you do me a favor ?
And I think maybe I'mprojecting because I have so
many new moms right now thathave shared with me over the
last year.
They're birthing experiences,they're laboring experience and
a lot of them have had very, soI actually would love to use
this as an opportunity to likeno, maybe if you say it's fine,
I don't.
That doesn't sound like fine isgood.
So why?
Speaker 3 (37:32):
Right?
How do I answer this?
So, basically, there werecertain things about the birth
that were really important to meand I was able to have that,
but there was, there were otheraspects where I didn't feel like
I was, like I had autonomy or Iwas like being respected by my
(37:53):
care provider.
So that's where I guess itwould fall on fine, like there
was.
No, I didn't have any likemajor complications and
everything was like relativelystraightforward.
It was more like the how I wastreated, piece.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
But I really wanna emphasize that, how important
that is Because, again, many ofmy clients have had experiences
where they've had, thankgoodness, a healthy labor and
birth experience.
But when you are in labor andgiving birth right and you are
not seen and heard and thatexperience is sort of you know,
(38:35):
in any way doesn't feel likeyour own or it feels like it's
somebody else's agenda.
That is not okay.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
Correct preaching to the choir.
No, no, no, I'm saying thatbecause that's what you just
said.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
That's what fine meat meant.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Yeah, it's not okay, that's what.
Fine meant exactly 100%, and soit was really like my own birth
experience and then that got memore of like riled up about
trying to help other people haveand have better experiences.
But it wasn't just that, it wasalso after I had him, like the
(39:16):
postpartum recovery aspect.
And, kim, I'm curious if yourclients share about their shock
when it comes to the postpartumrecovery.
Postpartum recovery was a hugeshock for me.
It was very difficult for me.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
What was difficult Emotionally.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
I don't feel like anyone talked to me in a real
way about what to expect.
I didn't have any friends whohad had babies before me, so no
one gave me the heads up.
I think that I had good familysupport and help, but I think I
(39:56):
could have been supported inother ways that would have made
it better.
Sounds like you felt reallyalone, honestly.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
I felt alone.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
My husband got zero paternity leave.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
What?
And it was, I went yeah.
I mean okay, zero maybe he hadtwo weeks.
I consider two weeks paternityleave zero.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah, that's a zero.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Because also with a boy, basically like Jacob you
probably know this you have abris.
A week that takes up the wholefirst week figuring out what
we're gonna do with the bris andthen only after the bris I've
had two boys.
Now I feel like you can relaxand act like, okay, enjoy the
baby.
So that left my husband withfive more days and then he was
(40:35):
back to her.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Just so people don't know.
The bris is the ritualcircumcision ceremony that
initiates a Jewish man into thepeople.
It's a huge deal.
It is a huge deal and it's,like you know, like a surgery
done in a public space.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
So it's kind of and a party Right and a party
Catering, it's a whole thing.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Hosing other people, which is like-.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
And I don't know about you, lauren, but we also
had we did a pideon aben, whichis like a whole another ceremony
, which is like a more rareJewish ceremony, which is like
30 days after a first son isborn to a mother that has not
had a previous child ormiscarriage.
Then there's a whole anotherceremony that's done, and
because it's so rare, it seemedlike a bigger deal.
(41:23):
And in my circles there's athing where, like everyone is
automatically invited and youcannot like turn people away, so
like you just don't know who'sgonna show up, and so that's
kind of yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Well, and to add so that's kind of like the
background.
And one more thing I had aC-section so I had the brisk and
I was recovering from my ownsurgery too, right, so there's a
lot around that, but yes, Ispent one right back to work.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
And-.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
I was all right right back to work.
So now it's just you and yourbaby.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Just me and my baby at our tiny one bedroom
apartment.
Oh my God, In the he was bornDecember 29th.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Oh my gosh.
And it was so cool.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Like these past couple of winters we've had have
been very mild.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
The winter of 2015.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
I remember that.
Winter, yeah, and terriblestorms.
Do you remember this?
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (42:14):
very bad snowstorm Like.
I remember being stuck in myapartment, yeah so yeah, it was
just really lonely, thankgoodness I had one very close
friend who had a baby five daysbefore I did her first baby and
she was like my, my person.
So I, you know, I that was lifesaving.
(42:35):
But in general the postpartumperiod was not enjoyable and it
really rocked me.
So, I started like telling allmy friends who were going to
have babies like, hey, you know,here's the deal, trying to like
normalize it for people.
And then I ended up being likethat person and I still kind of
(42:57):
am that person who people cometo with all of their stuff like
postpartum.
You know, I'm that person who'slike this might be TMI.
And then they tell me I'm likenothing is TMI for me.
Okay, like literally nothing.
So, yeah, I started likebecoming that person telling
everyone and people startedcoming to me and then fast
(43:19):
forward two years I had Shoshanaand that was a much better
experience.
I switched doctors yeah, it wasjust a much.
It was so much better and Ifelt so much better after I had
her and I had this realizationof like, oh wait, actually I now
realize how bad I felt thefirst time around.
(43:40):
Yeah, and I'm like now I feellike myself and I just have.
I have a baby now, not like whoam I?
What happened?
Like it was much more stable.
Yeah.
So after she was born, that'swhen I decided to get into like
the I started, decided to getcertified as a childbirth
educator.
(44:00):
I binged every single birthpodcast out there, like every
episode.
I just like while I was, youknow nursing her trying to leave
.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
I was just listening.
What were you trying to learn?
Yeah, like what.
What did like?
What was the vision for you?
You were like I don't, I justgot addicted to it.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
I mean, there's no rational explanation, it's just
like I got sucked into learningabout this stuff.
I think I wanted to, like,maybe understand the dynamics
that affected my experience Moreand, had you, I wanted to
understand, like, the reason whycertain things were done and
(44:39):
this was all you had started tolike cultivate this plan of like
sharing that with others tohelp them not have the same
experiences.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
You was that, do you feel?
Speaker 3 (44:51):
like I was a conscious goal, or yet, or not.
I think when I started I reallymy view has shifted a bit.
When I first started andgetting like really inspired
Okay, there's that word.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
I started getting really inspired.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
Yeah, like learning, I felt like, okay, the more you
know, know equal sign a betterexperience, right, more
education equals a betterexperience.
And now that I'm a little moreseasoned I know that that is not
.
That's not true.
It's.
We cannot control the outcome,right, you know.
So that's kind of my philosophyaround birth education.
(45:28):
It's like I really where I standnow is I want people, kind of
like Jacob was saying in thebeginning, I want people to know
, first of all, to understandthe birth process and how it
works, and then also understandwhat options and choices they
have for their birth experience,so that they can make the
decisions that feel authentic tothem.
(45:50):
And also, if things like Ithink people should have a
vision of how they want theirbirth to go.
I do think that that'simportant, but I think it's also
important for people tounderstand, okay, what might
shift that vision, how mightthings change?
And then, how can I navigatethat?
How can I feel empowered tohave the conversations with
whoever's on my care team?
(46:11):
How can I feel confident in thedecisions that I'm making?
It's more than just like thebirth.
It's about, like you know, likecultivating that, like
confidence in yourself.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
It's so holistic your approach for these, for these
families.
Like you know, when I, when Ihad Molly, I was in labor for
over 24 hours.
And you know the the photos inthe whole thing and I never
dilated fully, but I did pushfor an hour, ran a fever and
then I had to get an emergency Csection.
(46:42):
Yeah, and we, my doctor, drLinda, loved her, loved her.
She's retired now.
She, she actually deliveredboth my children.
And.
But here's what was interestingAfter the C section, right, so
you're awake for it?
Yeah, yeah, daughter, she'sborn, she has all her fingers
(47:03):
and all her toes, she's healthy,everything's great.
I'm like thank God, right.
And Dr Linda says I'm so sorryyou, just you couldn't deliver.
Uh, you know, vaginally what?
Oh my God.
So she said to me, as they wererolling me out, and I looked at
her and I said I never eventhat, never even occurred to me.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
I'm not bummed out about it.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
This feels great, Like I'm pumped Right, Like I
was like this is great.
And I remember thinking is thatweird?
That's a little weird.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
I think she's you know, she's projecting, but I'm
a therapist.
I'm like you know, but you knowbut that therapist is such a
degree that after your emergencyC section I was like.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
I think she's projecting because this feels,
this is fine, I'm just glad.
I'm just glad my daughter ishealthy.
Right, I really was.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
I really mean that.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
But you know and I'm saying this because, look a
couple of things that I see allthe time right, we have these
expectations of how this isgonna go, how we want it to go,
and it's not necessarily gonnago that way, but it's something
that you really like, you'vetuned, you were like really
intuitive around, like helpingpeople navigate that process,
(48:19):
because it's so scary too, likeugh, yeah, everything about it,
yeah there's a lot there and Ialso I notice, like what you're
saying right now, it's scary.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
Like I, one of my goals in educating people is to
help them feel less scared.
Obviously, I can't change howsomeone feels, but I think
sometimes people think moreinformation is gonna make them
feel more anxious, but it'sactually the opposite is true.
Especially, I'm trying to be assensitive as possible and
(48:56):
present information in not ascary way, right?
So I think that's also part ofit is that I personally, for
whatever reason, I'm lucky Idon't have fear around birth, so
I so maybe that just I don'tknow.
(49:16):
That's like one of the thingsthat called me to this, like I
find it fascinating and amazingand a miracle and I don't find
it scary, but I know a lot of myclients do.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
So I try to give over like the passion.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
What are you saying?
I found it scary.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
I found it much scarier than I think even my
wife did, and you know we like Ithink, even asked like the
first time we met.
You know, when I was 16, I hada cousin die from Eclampsia
during delivery.
You know, she was like in herearly 20s and I it's funny Kim
was asking me the other daycause she knew how anxious I was
while Danny was pregnant andshe was just like you seem like
(49:51):
to be doing fine.
I was like, yeah, I wasliterally only scared about like
the pregnancy and delivery part, like now, with everything
seems okay.
But you did such a great job ofreally being there for me.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Do you think you're doing what you're meant to do?
Yeah, that's a broad, that's a.
I know that's a.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
I know it's a really good question.
How does it feel to say yes tothat?
How does it feel to say yes tothat, it feels good.
Speaker 3 (50:16):
It feels good.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
You seem surprised.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
It's like a huge question Because I don't know
what I would put on this earthto do yeah exactly, so I can't
say for sure.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
You know, I just have like a private convo with, like
you know God?
Speaker 3 (50:29):
or the first like, hey, the Lord, this is why
you're here.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
But you come so alive when you speak about this and
you know and the whole energychanged.
Speaker 3 (50:37):
Yeah, I feel like for me that was like a big like.
That was a big shift for me tojust start listening to my
intuition.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
I mean that was.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
I felt so drawn to this, to the birth world, like I
just felt so drawn to it, likeeven yesterday I was in Trader
Joe's and I saw a lady with ababy in the stroller a young
baby and the baby was crying andshe was trying to to food shop.
It took every fiber of my beingto like not go over to her and
be like, can I hold your baby?
Like absolutely.
(51:10):
And then there was a pregnantwoman.
It took I like didn't go overto her.
It took a lot of self-control.
I'm not sure if I should notapproach people I'm deciding but
anyway, I just feel like I'm sodrawn to like supporting new
moms after they have a baby andhelping people prepare for their
birth.
So I feel like that's liketelling me something.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
That is totally telling me something.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
That is information.
So that's why I feel like, yeah, this is what I'm supposed to
be doing and I know that, likewhen people like Jacob you were
saying how much it helps youhelps you, I know that I'm good
at it on some level.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
You're great at it.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
You're just good at it full stop.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
You don't have to add on some level.
It was period, right, it's just.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
I'm good at this, this is exactly why I wanted you
on here.
You know you come so alive whenyou talk about this.
This is something that, like sofew people, are passionate and
confident in speaking about in away that also inspires others.
That is such a gift.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
I know, Thank you, and I'm so pumped about this
because I didn't even you know.
I didn't really know what wouldbe taught.
I don't usually know, you know,like where the conversations?
Speaker 3 (52:18):
would go.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
And I feel so grateful because there really
are so many clients that I havethat I think just would like
appreciate hearing this from you.
Speaker 3 (52:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
So about your business?
So tell us a little bit moreabout it.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
Sure, so my business is called Birth Positive
Childbirth Education.
I offer classes for expectingfamilies, so childbirth
preparation classes.
I also do cover postpartumpreparation because of really
because I felt so blindsided bymy own postpartum experience so
(53:00):
I made me it makes sure toinclude some information about
the postpartum period, and I'malso certified full spectrum
Zula, which means that I cansupport people during their
birth as a birth Zula, and I canalso support people in the
postpartum period by providingpostpartum support and care,
which is basically like the momthat everyone wants after they
(53:23):
have a baby, but a lot of people, don't, lauren, you know?
So that's what a postpartum Zulais, and well, I had one.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
I had a postpartum Zula for both my kids.
I did because my mom died whenI was 15.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
And so.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
I love actually how you just phrase that.
I like wanna cry because I'mjust like Donna Iric, who is now
retired, but she was, she wasan older person, you know, and
she like single.
I just think like if I didn'thave I don't know what David and
I, I mean we would have keptcarried on.
(53:59):
But gosh, she walked into myhouse one day and she looked at
me and she just she just went, Igot him.
This was when I had Alex, butshe was just my postpartum for
both.
Give me him, just go upstairs,go to sleep.
And I was like, are you sure?
And she's like right now, likeyou need to go to sleep right
now.
Speaker 3 (54:17):
You're right yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
You know, I just for the first time I saw like this
parallel, because I don't knowif inherently we see, like the,
the transition of femininewisdom, like during the birth
process, from older women toyounger women, throughout this.
But I think there's a beautifulparallel in that transition, in
how intergenerational wisdom ispassed in the moment of birth
via women, historically, andthen also when, like the baby's
(54:42):
taken by the men to do thecircumcision and the breathe me
law.
It's like, yeah, that's apowerful moment, yeah it feels
like that and you know, both areboth beautiful beautiful and
scary moments and there's a niceparallel in that that.
I think in some ways, maybe hasreally been lost.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
Think so, I think so what do you mean yeah, I mean
there's certainly Go ahead, goahead.
No, no, you go ahead.
Speaker 3 (55:04):
No, there certainly is what to say.
That, though I'll speak aboutthe feminine side, the knowledge
of birth, just on a or I'll saylike the normalization of birth
has been lost, because we don'thave that, we just it used to
be like that when people were,you know, home birth was more
common and birth was just likemore normal and you lived in
(55:28):
more, you know, you lived closerto family and it was just
normal Like, oh, my cousin'shaving a baby, my mom's having a
baby, like everyone's having ababy, it's fine.
Now it's like we're just muchmore separated.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
Yeah, so she's not as communal.
Speaker 3 (55:40):
People.
You know most people are goingto the hospital to have their
birth.
So even if you have children,younger children, they're not
seeing their mother go intolabor, they're just like okay,
mommy went to the hospital, shecame back with baby, you know.
So it's kind of like lost and Ithink there's this cloud of
mysteries around it, but notlike there is a mystery of birth
(56:02):
which can be really positive.
But there's also this mysterywhich is a little bit scary
because like well, what happened?
Speaker 1 (56:07):
Like how did?
Speaker 3 (56:07):
that happen.
It's like fear of the unknown.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah, and yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:10):
so I think, yeah, there's a lot of work that could
be done there, but Can you, forthose people who are, like
potentially interested in, likeseeking your services, you know,
to kind of remove a little moremystery in that like how does
the process work?
How does someone reach out toyou?
How does like the classes work?
Are they group, Are they couple?
Like what's going on?
Speaker 3 (56:30):
Sure.
So the best way to getinformation about what I'm
offering is on my website,that's b-b-e-birthpositivecom.
You can email me atb-birthpositivegmailcom.
Speaker 1 (56:49):
We'll put this all in the show notes too, yeah.
Speaker 3 (56:51):
Yeah, so those are the ways to find out.
Slash, get in touch.
If someone is has questions andthey're not sure what they
wanna do, I offer, you know, afree call that we can just get
on the phone and talk and Icould see how you know if we're
a good fit and if what I docould help you.
Speaker 1 (57:08):
Oh my God, it's almost like therapy.
Speaker 3 (57:09):
This is great, yeah, yeah.
And in terms of the likestructure.
So I offer private classes aswell as group classes.
Right now, my group classes arevirtual and my private classes
are in person.
So if you are a very dedicatedclient and you travel all the
way from Philly to Long Islandto take your class, like Danny
(57:32):
and Jacob, we could do him first.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
We were there.
Anyway, we were there.
That is like we do have a lotof New Yorkers.
Speaker 3 (57:40):
We have a lot of New Yorkers that listen to this
podcast.
Yeah, so I'm based in NassauCounty and I work with local
clients privately, so that iswhere I'm at right now In terms
of doula support.
That's kind of evolving.
That's like a newer, a neweraddition to what I offer.
I feel grateful that listenedto myself, I guess listened to
(58:05):
my intuition, because it's muchmore energizing to be doing
something that feels authenticto who I am.
And even though what we spokeabout today was just really
specifically related to mycareer shift, I think that that
(58:25):
experience of having therealization of this doesn't work
for me.
This is something that I'mreally drawn to and now I'm
gonna do that Like thatexperience of doing something
that feels authentic to me.
It's not just limited to what Ido professionally.
It comes out in other areas too.
Speaker 2 (58:45):
Once you have felt the bliss of being aligned, you
can't unsee it, and then youcalibrate more and more through
it.
When you were talking about it,you just heard the lyric from
the Janis Joplin song like Peaceof my.
Heart.
I'm not gonna sing it, but itsays you know you got it when it
makes you feel good and the wayshe sings, whatever that's.
Speaker 3 (59:08):
But I'm grateful.
Speaker 2 (59:10):
And I think sometimes people think, oh, you have to
find yourself by going to aretreat or making like something
.
Speaker 1 (59:16):
Don't knock it.
There are people that do that,I know look, I found myself
going to Israel and everythingyou did a retreat.
Speaker 2 (59:22):
But I just wanna highlight that you don't have to
do that.
Not everyone can take two yearsout of their life like I took
out of my life.
Speaker 1 (59:28):
You found it, or like a weekend Sedona, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:31):
But you know, lauren, you found it by continuing to
push and rediscover it, and yourchildren have a lot to do with
that.
There's I guess there'sgratitude to your own kids and
helping you figure that out.
Speaker 3 (59:45):
Right?
I think so yeah.
Speaker 1 (59:47):
And I have gratitude for you.
Speaker 2 (59:50):
You have no idea, thank you, you have no idea.
Speaker 3 (59:52):
Thank you for letting me come on.
Sorry, it felt likeenlightening to myself to just
tell over this whole experience,so I appreciate you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
Yeah, we're so happy that you could come.
Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
What a moment.
Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Oh, and one more thing, if anyone's interested in
hearing your full birth story,didn't you tell it on a podcast
at some point?
Another one I did.
Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
I told my first.
Yeah, I told my first, secondand fourth on the podcast, but
the third one got left out.
Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Okay, which is?
Is that something that, like,you'd like us to make a link to?
Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
Sure, I get to send you the link.
Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Okay, all right.
So, lauren, thank you so muchfor joining us.
Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Thank you so much for coming.
Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
We feel so grateful to have you.
Thanks, Kim.
Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
You're welcome, welcome, so glad I know you now
All right, thanks, lauren,likewise.
Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
Okay, thanks so much.
Thanks so much.
Enjoy your day, okay, you too.
Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Thank you so much for listening to today's episode.
If anything in today's episodespoke to you, please like,
subscribe, rate and review.
You can also help us grow byfollowing us on Instagram and
Facebook at Intuitive ChoicesPodcast.
Most importantly, make sure toshare today's episode with
friends and family.
Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
And if there's anybody that you know that you
think would be a great guest onIntuitive Choices, please email
us at intuitivechoicespodcast atgmailcom.
Finally, if you wanna know moreabout our mental health
practice, intuitive counselingand wellness, please check us
out atintuitivecounselingoffillycom.
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode
of Intuitive Choices.
I'm Kim.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
And I'm Jacob.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
And today we are super pumped because we have
with us Lauren Seidman.
Jacob, tell us a little bitabout our gal here.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
So let me tell you I've been so excited to have
Lauren on.
I've wanted to have her on fora while now, and the reason I'm
so excited is because Lauren isa birth educator, childbirth
educator.
She is the creator andfacilitator of the birth
positive childbirth educationprogram system.
Whatever language you're goingto use that, but I'll tell you
(00:45):
that my wife and I arepersonally grateful to Lauren
for her help with us bringingour she's facilitated, she
helped facilitate, shefacilitated.
We had fantastic classes withLauren and let me tell you, even
though I consider myself likenot the most uneducated person
in the world and I had healthclasses in high school and my
wife herself is a doctor Laurenstill taught us so much about
(01:07):
not only how children come intothe world, but what our choices
and options are with childrencoming into the world, and she
gave us so much confidence andclarity in what choices we had.
And when my wife was givingbirth to our son, many nurses
and doctors said I can't believe.
This is your first kid.
(01:28):
You're doing great.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Which we're attributing, it sounds like,
directly to Lauren.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
To Lauren and certainly my wife.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
But she did do all the work.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
She was incredible.
Anyway, we want to welcome you,lauren.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
This is so awesome because I think we're going to
talk about some important stufftoday.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Thank you so much for having me and thank you for
that very generous introduction.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
You deserve much more .
Speaker 1 (01:54):
We just don't have the time, all right.
But, here's the thing, right,this was a career change for you
.
My understanding I don't knowmuch about you, but my
understanding is you did a wholeother thing with your life
before you became a childbirtheducator.
Slash doula, right.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yes, that is correct All right.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
So how did it start?
What was life like before beinga childbirth educator?
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Great question.
I will give a little backgroundstory.
Well, first of all, certainlywhen I was asked in elementary
or middle school, what do youwant to be when you grow up, it
was not a childbirth educator,okay, I don't think that was
ever on my radar.
Really, I always thought Iwanted to be a lawyer.
(02:49):
That was my answer to thatquestion what do you want to be
when you grow up?
I want to be a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
What do you want to know?
Yeah, from how old?
Where does?
That come from Sounds like avery confident, I guess, high
school.
High school time, maybe before.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
I don't remember exactly that?
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Do you know why?
What inspired you to want to bea lawyer, though?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
That's actually an interesting way to word that
question.
What inspired you to want to bethat?
I grew up in a very nicetypical Jewish family where
lawyer, doctor, any sort ofprofessional little
stereotypical there.
My dad is a physician.
(03:34):
I wanted to have thisprofessional career path because
that was kind of normal.
That's what people do?
You go to college and maybe youget a graduate degree.
I felt like okay.
(03:55):
I don't mind arguing and provingmy point.
I'm smart and I could get intolaw school, so why don't I just
try to do that?
Then, when it came to applyingfor college, you kind of have to
niche yourself into what yourfuture aspirations are.
I just landed on that.
After college, I ended upgetting introduced to consulting
(04:24):
as a career path I focused on.
My major was called Industrialand Labor Relations, which is
just a fancy way of saying studyof the workplace.
A lot of people either go intoa labor law with that degree or
they go into consulting or otherthings too, obviously, but a
lot of people go into aconsulting path and I started to
(04:45):
get more interested inconsulting.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Where were you in college?
Speaker 3 (04:49):
I went to Cornell.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Was it at Cornell?
Was this like a hot, major kindof thing?
Do you feel like there's a lotof people going towards it?
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Basically, if you think you want to go to law
school, you do this major.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Okay, that's interesting More or less.
You were really hell bent onpursuing or being an attorney.
You were like, okay, I'm doingit yeah yeah, okay, right, I'm
looking back now.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
I'm not sure that I felt like, oh, this really fits
my personal identity and itreally gets me excited inside.
It was more just like thisseems interesting enough and
like I could do it so I'm justgonna try to pursue that.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Yeah, and this is interesting enough, but like
it's so.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
When Kim asked if you were inspired, yeah, yeah, it
does not sound like.
That is the yeah, inspireddefinitely applies to what I do
now, but not what I was thinkingI was gonna do that yeah, was
inspiration something that likespoke to you, that anyone like
ever highlight the importance ofbeing inspired, or were ever
around someone who you felt wasinspired?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Good question, I don't know.
Yeah, I'm thinking.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Lauren, if you have to think that hard, yeah, the
answers probably no, you know,and that's okay, right, because
what you're, what it'shighlighting is, I think, like
the culture you grew up in,right, all of these things, sort
of like there was a narrative,right.
Like this is what you do, thisis what six, you know, I don't
mean to speak for you, so if anyof this doesn't resonate, just
(06:38):
say it.
But like this is what successlooks like, this is, this is,
this is what it means to like dolife well is like you go to
college, you go to a greatcollege, you work hard and you
like do one of these, like youknow, pretty like yeah nice
professions, right?
quote-unquote, because there's alot of people who don't like
them and so and it sounds likethat was a little bit like that
(07:01):
for you right, I think that'sthat's pretty accurate did you
get any satisfaction out of?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I'm trying to think of better words for this, but
did you get any satisfaction oflike or comfort?
Maybe were you.
Were you comforted by knowingyou were doing what you were
like quote-unquote supposed todo?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
and that's a good question, I I think so.
It definitely felt it's feltsafe in quotes that was approved
in quotes, you know yeah likestamp of approval.
You know this is like anacceptable career path yeah,
(07:43):
okay because it's a respectedcareer, you can make a decent
living and it shows people thatyou're smart and you have, you
know, a good degree on your walland all of those things yeah,
like, yeah, like you're good onpaper.
Yeah, it's good on paper yeahand I, you know, I definitely
(08:06):
think like intellectually, Ifound it interesting and
stimulating.
But when you use the verbinspirate, inspired, I'm not
gonna say that I felt inspiredin a in a emotional way.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I will say that it I I'm at least I'm grateful for
you that at least it was enjoy.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
There's parts of it that were enjoyable, right for
sure yeah it wasn't like you'reforced to do this and you have
to do it whether you like it ornot.
I definitely had an interest init.
I just don't think thatinterest came from a place of of
.
This really excites me in adeep way it was more just like
this is one of the available.
(08:50):
This is like one of the careerpaths that I felt like was
normal in my circles and I foundit intellectually stimulating.
So there definitely was that.
You know, I did take my LSATs.
I found it fun to take theLSATs.
Lsats are fun.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I don't know.
I have never heard anyone saythat no, I know so I know a lot
of people took the LSATs so do I, and that's a first.
It's so funny to think thatthere's these people who took
the LSAT and hated it and arelawyers and you took the.
Lsat and enjoyed it and are nota lawyer yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Did you end up going to law?
Speaker 3 (09:23):
school?
No, I didn't.
But the results are good forfive years, so I took it.
I took it when I was a seniorin college, just so I could have
it if I ever decided to go backso it was the what was the step
post college yeah, post college, right.
So I started saying that I gotintroduced to consulting through
one of the career fairs that wehad.
I found out about specificallyDeloitte consulting, which is a
(09:46):
big professional services firm,and I just I connected with the
people that worked there.
I thought it was an interestingtype of work to do and I I
guess I at a certain point Idon't remember exactly when I
feel like I got a little bitless convinced that I wanted to
go to law school.
So I was kind of like I don'twant to go to law school
(10:10):
necessarily right after college,let me see if I can get a job
with Deloitte and applied for,obviously, other jobs too.
I went to, was like putting onmy egg someone basket, but they
were my first choice and I endedup just applying for HR jobs,
hr consulting jobs, and was like, okay, I'm gonna do that and if
I ever decide I want to go backto law school then I will.
(10:32):
I think I realized like lawschool is like very expensive
and three years and if I wasn'tsure, then that didn't really
make a lot to do that.
Yeah, like you got to be sure,it's like a huge, big commitment
financially and time-wise.
So I wasn't sure.
I ended up getting a job withDeloitte, and I started working
there right after I graduatedcollege so what does it mean?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
what is it?
What kind of consultant?
Speaker 3 (10:55):
it's called human capital what is that?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
like, yeah, what is that?
It really quickly.
What is that?
What does it even do?
Speaker 3 (11:05):
what does that mean?
Yeah, so human capital meansthat that we help companies
tackle problems related to theirworkforce.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Oh okay, does that mean like, yeah, maintaining a
workforce?
That mean like keeping peoplehappy while they're working for
you.
Finding employees like what'sthat entail?
Speaker 3 (11:23):
everything.
I mean everything.
There's HR technology, thereare HR, you know, restructuring
if there's mergers, a merger,acquisition, how to integrate
the new employees, like there'sthey're.
They work with large companieson large projects.
Anything you could think ofthat relates to employees.
We basically did that so whatdid?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
what did you do personally?
Speaker 3 (11:47):
personally like day to day.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I mean not every day, but, like you know, I like my
focus.
Yeah, um.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
I I did a few different things, I guess.
When I first started, I workedon a project that was related to
um you really want to know.
It was like merger in themergers and acquisitions space,
um and then, after that, Iworked on a project related to
(12:14):
helping a company redesign theirpayroll system.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Like how they pay their employees.
Can I just, can I interject,really?
Speaker 1 (12:23):
quickly Because you're so I don't even know you.
This is my second conversationwith you in life and you're so
personable and the work that youdo now is so like, human
centered and even just a littlebit.
That you're describing soundsso removed from the human
connection, was it yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Yeah, that's like very on point.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Oh, my goodness, and like, whoa, like, and the thing
is there.
There are really things in lifewhere, like you can't know
something's not a fit untilyou're in it and I feel like
that's right.
That's like everything thatwe're saying right now about
your life, right, like you knowthe you know applying for law
school, if you were going to dothat, and like going through
college, and it's just like youcan't know what, what a deep and
(13:11):
meaningful experience is untilyou have one to know that, what
that feels like.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 3 (13:18):
So, true, yes, and it's like, that's like what?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
your pride.
It just feels like, like yourprocess is just like unfolding
in that direction.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Right, I think that's very fair yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Can you think of any moments while at Deloitte where
you just felt like this Maybenot be the right place for you?
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Yeah, I definitely had those moments, um I just I
didn't feel like I just I feltlike sometimes I didn't.
I just didn't feel like soconnected to what I was doing
like.
I would, I could do it, but Ididn't feel like passionate
about it.
And then I would see otherpeople who were like Super
(13:55):
passionate about and then superinto it, and then I'm like is
there something wrong with me?
Speaker 2 (13:59):
It's funny that you say like that the question
turned back on you like is theresomething wrong with me?
Because honestly I would thinklike, is there something wrong
with them?
Like I think that's like.
I felt that working in otherplaces in the past, like how can
anyone like this?
I guess that's.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
I guess that's fair.
I there was probably enoughthose thoughts too.
But you know what?
There's something for everyoneout there, and different people
get their energy from differentthings.
So I had a few times like that.
You know I would have likemanagers or who are really into
their work.
And you know, at a big firmlike Deloitte, there are people
(14:36):
at partner level who have beenat the firm for years and years
and years, like you would thinkyou know they really like what
they do.
Okay, that's a wholeconversation we could have.
You know, it's not necessarilytrue, but there were definitely
people who were like deeplyinvested in their work and
really like Genuinely liked itand like the client
relationships and all the things.
Um, and I just sort of feltlike it got to a point where it
(15:00):
was like enough times I was, Iwas like okay, I feel like I'm.
This doesn't resonate with meand I feel like I have to fake
it and if and if I'm gonna be atthe shop every single day, I
can't do that anymore.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
What did um like, what did faking it look like and
who were you faking to like?
We're faking to yourself.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
You're faking to co-workers like what, what I
look like both like I guess tocall it co-workers just like
just going about the motions butnot really feeling so
passionately about it um, and Ithink sort of like.
So basically, I started workingthere and then In 2012, and then
in 2015, I had my son, mm-hmm,and so I think I Not I think I
(15:43):
know what started happening wasthat I was having these doubts
about is this really the rightcareer path for me?
But then, on top of that,having a child and starting my
family, bummed they but.
(16:22):
I don't quote me on that, butshe basically was saying you
know, your kids are your kidsare always going to win.
Basically, in terms of, like,what would you?
Where would you rather be?
Like, would you rather be withyour kids or would you rather be
at work?
Most parents are going to saylike they want to spend time
with their kids.
However, the reality for mostparents is that you are going to
(16:43):
have a job, so whatever jobyou're doing needs to be like a
really strong pull.
Yeah, I feel like that.
That really started to come upfor me, like I'm really pulled
to be with my kids more.
Okay, so if I'm going to beleaving them to do a job outside
of the home, it became muchmore important for me to feel
(17:06):
like, yeah, I'm really connectedto what I'm doing outside the
home.
Yes, does that make sense Of?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
course I I I cannot believe, like I've been a dad
for eight months Wow.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
That's so not a lot of time.
I've never heard a phrase thatway.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, but I'm actually just transitioning into
thinking of myself as a dadinstead of someone with a kid.
Good for you, Jacob, that's astep, but.
But even like I'm very gratefulthat I love being a therapist,
but I just I cannot believe how,again, how short I've been a
dad and how much.
I know what you're saying istrue.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
And yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Especially an eight month old.
That's like the cutest age ofall time.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I'll send you some pictures.
He is so cute, it's crazy, andhe knows it.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Guys, can I just say I've been a mom, because I want
to say it in the exact same waythat you just did, because I
think it's interesting.
I've been a mom for 15 and ahalf years.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, oh wow, that is a lot of years.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, how many, how many years, lauren, have you
been a mom?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Guys I love saying it this way, it's so great.
So so, how many kids do youhave?
Four, four, oh my God, that'sso ambitious.
Good for you, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
What's the?
Speaker 1 (18:21):
I can't even see from her.
I wonder what face she justmade when she went yeah, she's
both smiling and tired.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Smiling and sighing.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yeah, how?
Because we're going to segueinto, like the child-worth
education and stuff like this,because I think it's going to be
, it's natural.
But how old are you?
All of like in the ages?
Speaker 3 (18:42):
So my oldest, he'll be eight.
I mean he'll be eight inDecember.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
And then my next, my daughter.
She just turned six.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
And then I have another daughter who's three and
a half, and then my littlest heis 15 months.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Yes, it's fun.
Good for you.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
It's so funny I can't believe.
I never thought I'd feel thisway, but like I love babies now,
I didn't know that was going tohappen.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
You didn't love babies before.
No, I didn't either.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
To be quite honest, yeah, yeah, I love my babies
when you get to know a baby youreally appreciate them more.
When, when you're telling, likejust touching on the fact how,
after after becoming a mom, thatyou felt like the consulting
work was not enough to continueto, it just was losing out every
time, essentially 100%.
Um, I had a supervisor when Iwas at Memorial Sloan Kettering,
(19:32):
as when I was a researchassistant who had her second
child while I was working forher, I think, and one day she
was on maternity leave for awhile.
Then she came back and one dayshe calls me into a meeting and,
to be perfectly honest, I don'tknow if I was the best
supervisee to her.
Um and uh, we had a uh, she waslike it seemed like a very
(19:55):
serious meeting and I thought Iwas about to get in trouble,
honestly.
And then she kind of said howlike she was reducing her
workload to like I forget if shesaid like two days a week or
three days a week because shewanted to spend more time with
her kids.
And I was like, oh, that's,that's great, that's awesome.
And she like got shocked and shewas like, well, why do you say
(20:16):
that?
And I was like, well, what'smore important in life than,
like, raising kids?
Like that's the whole point.
Like, if you have kids.
Like don't, don't you want toraise them.
And she like I think I disarmedher a little bit because I I
could just tell that she wasgetting so much pushback from
either like friends and familyor even colleagues that like how
can you be like you're a,you're a woman living in
(20:38):
Manhattan, you're really goingto pick your kids over your
career, like we work so hard toget here?
But she's what she said to me.
She said she was not getting alot of support in making this
decision and she said the thingthat broke the camel's back for
her was they were out at like aplayground with her and a friend
and like the nannies were therewith all the kids and the kid
(20:59):
fell.
One of the kids fell and hurt,hurt his knee and he ran over to
the nanny instead of to the momand she was like I do not want
this relationship with my kids.
I want, I want to be the onethey run to.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
And that's such a hard balance for for modern
working parents to strike Like.
That is it's it's painful.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
It's really hard.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
So did you leave consulting after you had?
Did you say you left after yourfirst child was born?
I did not.
I kept working.
Okay, so it's to say a littlebit more.
So how?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
long did it?
Speaker 1 (21:37):
take you to finally be like look, I need to have a
conversation with my husbandbecause this is great, so he was
born in 2015,.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
two Deloitte's credit , and I do.
I do want to say on the airthat they are one of the
companies that is very good toparents.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Great.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
They have six months fully paid parental leave.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Wow, and they are really one of the companies that
I wish other companies would belike that.
So I do want to say that I'm ofa lot of gratitude to the way
that they, you know, try to helpsupport working parents.
But to their credit, you know,I, after I had Aliahou that's my
(22:27):
son, he, they let me have moreflexibility.
So typically in consultingyou're traveling, and this is
all pre COVID.
Okay, so now, post COVID, I'mstarting it's all different, but
pre COVID it's you're travelingthree, you're out of, you're
not home, three nights a weekYou're traveling.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Monday to Thursday night.
That's like standard every week.
That's a lot.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
So they put me on a project where I have more
flexibility so I didn't have totravel like that.
I had to travel sometimes, butnot like that.
They did try to work with me.
So I worked on that projectuntil I got pregnant with
Shoshana, my older daughter, andthen I went out on maternity
(23:10):
leave and it was six monthsmaternity leave and then I tried
talking to them while I was onmaternity leave.
At that point it's really theKim, it was like just to answer
your question.
At that point it was kind oflike okay, what are we going to
do here?
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Because I was already starting to feel like that's
your chance, right, you break up.
It's the look, it's a breakupmoment, exactly.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
I was like still having.
I remember when I was reallypregnant with Eliaho, I went
into the office one day and heat that time they're less than
two years apart, so at that timehe was like 18 months or 19
months, which is like the mostadorable, yummy age of all time.
Okay, I said that about eightmonths, but like this little
young toddler, age is old.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
I remember- you can tell she just like, lives and
breathes for being a mom,because every age is going to be
like this is the firstgeneration.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Tell me about 18 months.
That was it.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Yum, I remember leaving my apartment one day and
he was sitting in the strollergoing to school and my daddy was
gonna walk Into school and Ijust remember like how cute he
looked in the stroller and Iwent that into my office and I
just there's a like a malepartner there and I just who I
knew?
And I said hide him.
And I just like lost it, like Ihad a full breakdown crying, so
I was like I want to be with mykid, like this is just crazy.
(24:24):
He was so cute so I I knew I andit was.
I started getting like jealousof my nanny.
I guess it's similar, jacob, ohthat's interesting.
Yes, yeah, I was like that's notfair.
She spent so much time with him, I want to spend time with him.
So, anyway, and I had to shana.
I was on maternity leave forsix months.
I spoke to HR and all thepeople I needed to speak to.
(24:44):
I was on maternity leave to seelike what the flexibility would
be.
I try to go.
I tried to go back on a reducedworkload, like your boss did,
and that wasn't really.
It wasn't really possible atthat time.
Again, I was.
I was placed on a project thatoffered more flexibility so I
wouldn't have to travel, whichwas good.
(25:04):
But then, like Six months intome going back to work, like when
she, shana, was one, I it waslike I had enough.
I was like I can't do thisanymore.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Because then it's what was the thing that happened
?
I feel like something happened.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Yeah, so.
So I think what happened was acouple things.
One is, even though I wasn'ttraveling, the project I was on
was still pretty demanding, okay, and so just that needing to be
like very available for, formeetings and for clients Started
to get really challenging Inconjunction with the fact that
(25:41):
my husband actually started anew job when Shoshana was born,
so he was a year into his newjob and his job was also super
demanding.
Okay and he had no flexibility.
So it started to become like ifany, if we needed anything, if,
if we needed to get anythingdone for the kids.
It kept falling on me, like justtaking them to the doctor or to
(26:04):
you picking them up from school, or if they got sick, or, and
then I would get and do itworked with me.
They're like you can Sign offearly, be home with your kids,
like in the afternoon hours,like the four to seven time, and
then like I was logging backonline at night to finish work
and it was just like Somethinghas to give, like I can't.
(26:25):
This is just it's just it'sunsustainable.
It was not sustainable.
Yeah, and I wanted to say also,I think part of that, now that
I'm like more removed from it, Ilike look back and I'm just
yeah, obviously that was notsustainable, but I think part of
this one thing that made ithard, or makes it hard is it's
(26:47):
feeling like is there's likeagain, like is there something
wrong with me that I can'tfigure this out, because it
seems like so many people aremaking this work and it.
It wasn't about like hiringmore help or getting more
nannies.
It was it.
It was just like my Quality oflife was just like.
This is not.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
I I see this so much with the clients that I have,
the mom clients that I have thatare that are working, working
in Incorporate you know jobs andhave the kids.
Yeah, this is such a I mean Icannot count how many times in
session I've heard somebody gobut all there, I see all these
people doing it and I always say, yeah, you see them doing it on
(27:30):
Facebook you know, Instagram,but, like you know you, it's
like it is so hard to do andthat time has to come that
energy and time is not infinite.
It's not an infinite amount oftime and energy that we have, so
it has to get pulled fromsomewhere.
And when you get to that pointin your life, which you clearly
(27:52):
did when Shoshana was a year old.
It was like it becomes almostlike this, it is epiphany,
almost where you're just like Ican't.
There's nothing left to give.
You know what I mean to thisthing and I have to find the
energy and space to do itsomewhere.
So something has to stop, likeyou have to stop doing a thing.
It sounds like you stopped.
(28:13):
You know, like you were likealright, this time stop to end
this relationship with this,with this job, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
If I could, I could I say a question the opposite way
.
Then it's so palpable how muchyou love your children.
Yeah, and how much you lovebeing a mom.
So what was the pull?
To stay at the Lloyd as long asyou did.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Oh, interesting, um good one.
I think that.
Why did I say as long as I did?
I think I wanted to try, Ithink I wanted the like,
satisfaction I guess for lack ofa better word satisfaction of
knowing I tried everything firstlike I tried to work with them
(28:57):
on the flexibility peace youknow.
I tried to Work while my kidswere in school and then be with
them in the afternoon, and thenworking like I wanted to feel.
I tried all the things beforeCutting.
You know, cutting the courseit's like.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
It's like you knew it's it would not.
I don't think it would be afair question to me to that ask.
You know, like well, if youcould go back and do it again,
would you just left in thebeginning?
Because that's, that'sridiculous.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
No, you have to do right.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
You had to, you had to go through the steps and
confirm with yourself at each,each step.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
No, no, no, you, you first, and then I'll ask my
question.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Go ahead and I think there's also just this.
I Think there's just this likestigma, like quitting your job
like you have a good job.
Why are you gonna quit that job?
Speaker 1 (29:48):
You want to know.
I was gonna ask you they gaveyou six months maternity right.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
They, you know they just ask for your life in return
you what they just asked foryour whole life in return.
I, I was gonna ask, maybe Iknow you know it didn't look
like you agreed with that, soI'm gonna let you respond to
that, because I don't want tospeak for you your whole life.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Yeah, I think that's like a little bit extreme.
Yeah but it's.
I Felt like I was giving a lotof my energy and at a certain
point, especially once we had asecond kid, we started to also
do the math about child care andLike yeah my salary and it was
(30:26):
like salary versus child careversus and also salary versus
sanity.
Am I, am I getting, and is theamount of money that I'm earning
worth it for the amount thatthis is affecting my Sanity?
(30:48):
yeah, and we got to the pointwhere I was just like no, I also
.
I also don't believe that whenpeople anyone listening to this,
you know, I think when you makethat Calculation of child care
costs versus salary, I do notthink that it should only come
from the wife's side Just saying, yeah, but in my situation it
(31:14):
was not just me versus childcare and I wanted to work, but
it didn't make sense.
That wasn't it.
It was like child carecompensation and quality of life
and sanity, like there was alsothat piece to it.
You know what I mean.
I don't want anyone to belistening to me like, okay, well
, I love my job, but I don't getpaid enough.
(31:35):
I only get paid enough to paymy babysitter.
So maybe I should quit too.
Like, no, I definitely it'salso this part of like feeling
your soul, like how does itaffect you?
Speaker 1 (31:42):
I think for me, like when I first had Molly, my
paycheck went to child care andI knew for myself, but I was a
therapist, right, and I knew.
I always have known for myselflike I need to do this.
I have to do this work.
I have to.
But, speaking, going back tothe stigma of it, the question I
(32:03):
was going to ask you, I think,is connected to the question,
which is, like, do you feel likethere was some ego involved in
you feeling like you know, likeI need to stay at this job, you
know like this, like, oh, I likefailed at this, or there's a
stigma around you know thosekinds of?
That's what I was going to askyou.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Yeah, it's like oh, you went to an Ivy like school
and now you're a stay at homemother.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
There it is, ooh.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
That drives me nuts.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
I get so like like give me a, like a pit in my
stomach just hearing you saythat out loud.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
I mean, I still, I still feel that on some level,
that's totally fair andunderstandable.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
But, like I, this is like the idealist, like in me is
just like there literallycannot be anything more
important to humanity or acivilization than the caretaking
of children.
That has to literally be themost important thing, and I just
(33:02):
wish that it would be valuedmore by a society.
It's like I don't know if thisis because I grew up in a family
of teachers, or because, like Ireally felt, like I was like
the center of-.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
You've always wanted to be a grandpa too.
And I always wanted to be agrandfather.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
That's true, and I felt like I was at the center of
my mom's life but like I'm soex, I was so excited to.
I think I've spoken to thisbefore.
But, like so much of me,changing my life was because I
wanted to be a grandfather.
Therefore, I had to learn howto be like myself and learn how
to be a grandfather, and I hadto be like myself and learn how
to be a husband and then learnhow to be a father, and then
(33:40):
learn.
I always learned all of them,but I just really felt for what
you said.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I also just wanted to touch base on what you were
saying about gosh.
I just love that you said it.
I went to an Ivy League schooland I'm just a stay at home mom
Because the thing is and while Iagree with Jacob, like there's
such, if you choose to become aparent, valuing that and having
(34:09):
a society that supports that, isimportant, but also recognizing
too that, like, life isn'tabout making choices that are
one or the other, that like,because you went to an Ivy
League school, this means you'resupposed to have that.
This is like an equation right,ivy League school or, let's
just say, college, right,bachelor's degree, anybody?
Right?
It's like I hear this again.
(34:30):
It's like such a common theme inthe conversations I have with
so many of my clients over theyears that it's like just
because of this doesn't meanthat anything is a waste, a
waste of time.
It's because it's all anaccumulation, everything we've
ever experienced, right Likeit's just it's a part of where
(34:52):
you are in this exact moment.
So it's like going to Cornellfor so many different reasons is
a part of who you are today,right?
So yeah, I just don't thinkit's a just don't think it's
like, I don't think it's amathematical equation.
I think it's all a part of.
It just becomes a part of yourstory, you know.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
As you live your life .
I think, yeah, I think that is,I think that's important for, I
think, people to hear, andvalidating for me personally, oh
, good, and I do think that thatwas part of my hesitation in
(35:40):
leaving my job.
Yeah, like I can't quoteunquote, give up that easily.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
But it certainly was not easy.
But you also did it Like youovercame, like stigma and like
some weird, like I don't know ifit counts as a sunk cost
fallacy, but like having gone toNaive League school and now
taking this next step.
And then not only did that, itsounds like those choices helped
you align with who you felt youwere in that moment.
But then, if you know, if wehave this context of like work
(36:08):
is something that you, as aparent, work is something that
you should feel drawn to, inaddition to being drawn to your
kids, then you create your ownfield as a childbirth educator.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
So wait is that wait so how did that happen?
Speaker 3 (36:27):
Like what's the?
Can you explain the transition?
How'd you go from consulting tochildbirth education?
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Different kind of consulting one-on-one consultant
.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
So how did I get into the childbirth educator role?
So I, when I was pregnant withEliahou, I started, like any
other first time parent, tryingto do the research and learn
what I could, and I started toget interested in birth
(36:58):
information and birth experience.
But then so my birth with himwas it was fine.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Can you do me a favor ?
And I think maybe I'mprojecting because I have so
many new moms right now thathave shared with me over the
last year.
They're birthing experiences,they're laboring experience and
a lot of them have had very, soI actually would love to use
this as an opportunity to likeno, maybe if you say it's fine,
I don't.
That doesn't sound like fine isgood.
So why?
Speaker 3 (37:32):
Right?
How do I answer this?
So, basically, there werecertain things about the birth
that were really important to meand I was able to have that,
but there was, there were otheraspects where I didn't feel like
I was, like I had autonomy or Iwas like being respected by my
(37:53):
care provider.
So that's where I guess itwould fall on fine, like there
was.
No, I didn't have any likemajor complications and
everything was like relativelystraightforward.
It was more like the how I wastreated, piece.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
But I really wanna emphasize that, how important
that is Because, again, many ofmy clients have had experiences
where they've had, thankgoodness, a healthy labor and
birth experience.
But when you are in labor andgiving birth right and you are
not seen and heard and thatexperience is sort of you know,
(38:35):
in any way doesn't feel likeyour own or it feels like it's
somebody else's agenda.
That is not okay.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
Correct preaching to the choir.
No, no, no, I'm saying thatbecause that's what you just
said.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
That's what fine meat meant.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Yeah, it's not okay, that's what.
Fine meant exactly 100%, and soit was really like my own birth
experience and then that got memore of like riled up about
trying to help other people haveand have better experiences.
But it wasn't just that, it wasalso after I had him, like the
(39:16):
postpartum recovery aspect.
And, kim, I'm curious if yourclients share about their shock
when it comes to the postpartumrecovery.
Postpartum recovery was a hugeshock for me.
It was very difficult for me.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
What was difficult Emotionally.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
I don't feel like anyone talked to me in a real
way about what to expect.
I didn't have any friends whohad had babies before me, so no
one gave me the heads up.
I think that I had good familysupport and help, but I think I
(39:56):
could have been supported inother ways that would have made
it better.
Sounds like you felt reallyalone, honestly.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
I felt alone.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
My husband got zero paternity leave.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
What?
And it was, I went yeah.
I mean okay, zero maybe he hadtwo weeks.
I consider two weeks paternityleave zero.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah, that's a zero.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Because also with a boy, basically like Jacob you
probably know this you have abris.
A week that takes up the wholefirst week figuring out what
we're gonna do with the bris andthen only after the bris I've
had two boys.
Now I feel like you can relaxand act like, okay, enjoy the
baby.
So that left my husband withfive more days and then he was
(40:35):
back to her.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Just so people don't know.
The bris is the ritualcircumcision ceremony that
initiates a Jewish man into thepeople.
It's a huge deal.
It is a huge deal and it's,like you know, like a surgery
done in a public space.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
So it's kind of and a party Right and a party
Catering, it's a whole thing.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Hosing other people, which is like-.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
And I don't know about you, lauren, but we also
had we did a pideon aben, whichis like a whole another ceremony
, which is like a more rareJewish ceremony, which is like
30 days after a first son isborn to a mother that has not
had a previous child ormiscarriage.
Then there's a whole anotherceremony that's done, and
because it's so rare, it seemedlike a bigger deal.
(41:23):
And in my circles there's athing where, like everyone is
automatically invited and youcannot like turn people away, so
like you just don't know who'sgonna show up, and so that's
kind of yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Well, and to add so that's kind of like the
background.
And one more thing I had aC-section so I had the brisk and
I was recovering from my ownsurgery too, right, so there's a
lot around that, but yes, Ispent one right back to work.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
And-.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
I was all right right back to work.
So now it's just you and yourbaby.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Just me and my baby at our tiny one bedroom
apartment.
Oh my God, In the he was bornDecember 29th.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Oh my gosh.
And it was so cool.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Like these past couple of winters we've had have
been very mild.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
The winter of 2015.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
I remember that.
Winter, yeah, and terriblestorms.
Do you remember this?
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (42:14):
very bad snowstorm Like.
I remember being stuck in myapartment, yeah so yeah, it was
just really lonely, thankgoodness I had one very close
friend who had a baby five daysbefore I did her first baby and
she was like my, my person.
So I, you know, I that was lifesaving.
(42:35):
But in general the postpartumperiod was not enjoyable and it
really rocked me.
So, I started like telling allmy friends who were going to
have babies like, hey, you know,here's the deal, trying to like
normalize it for people.
And then I ended up being likethat person and I still kind of
(42:57):
am that person who people cometo with all of their stuff like
postpartum.
You know, I'm that person who'slike this might be TMI.
And then they tell me I'm likenothing is TMI for me.
Okay, like literally nothing.
So, yeah, I started likebecoming that person telling
everyone and people startedcoming to me and then fast
(43:19):
forward two years I had Shoshanaand that was a much better
experience.
I switched doctors yeah, it wasjust a much.
It was so much better and Ifelt so much better after I had
her and I had this realizationof like, oh wait, actually I now
realize how bad I felt thefirst time around.
(43:40):
Yeah, and I'm like now I feellike myself and I just have.
I have a baby now, not like whoam I?
What happened?
Like it was much more stable.
Yeah.
So after she was born, that'swhen I decided to get into like
the I started, decided to getcertified as a childbirth
educator.
(44:00):
I binged every single birthpodcast out there, like every
episode.
I just like while I was, youknow nursing her trying to leave
.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
I was just listening.
What were you trying to learn?
Yeah, like what.
What did like?
What was the vision for you?
You were like I don't, I justgot addicted to it.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
I mean, there's no rational explanation, it's just
like I got sucked into learningabout this stuff.
I think I wanted to, like,maybe understand the dynamics
that affected my experience Moreand, had you, I wanted to
understand, like, the reason whycertain things were done and
(44:39):
this was all you had started tolike cultivate this plan of like
sharing that with others tohelp them not have the same
experiences.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
You was that, do you feel?
Speaker 3 (44:51):
like I was a conscious goal, or yet, or not.
I think when I started I reallymy view has shifted a bit.
When I first started andgetting like really inspired
Okay, there's that word.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
I started getting really inspired.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
Yeah, like learning, I felt like, okay, the more you
know, know equal sign a betterexperience, right, more
education equals a betterexperience.
And now that I'm a little moreseasoned I know that that is not
.
That's not true.
It's.
We cannot control the outcome,right, you know.
So that's kind of my philosophyaround birth education.
(45:28):
It's like I really where I standnow is I want people, kind of
like Jacob was saying in thebeginning, I want people to know
, first of all, to understandthe birth process and how it
works, and then also understandwhat options and choices they
have for their birth experience,so that they can make the
decisions that feel authentic tothem.
(45:50):
And also, if things like Ithink people should have a
vision of how they want theirbirth to go.
I do think that that'simportant, but I think it's also
important for people tounderstand, okay, what might
shift that vision, how mightthings change?
And then, how can I navigatethat?
How can I feel empowered tohave the conversations with
whoever's on my care team?
(46:11):
How can I feel confident in thedecisions that I'm making?
It's more than just like thebirth.
It's about, like you know, likecultivating that, like
confidence in yourself.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
It's so holistic your approach for these, for these
families.
Like you know, when I, when Ihad Molly, I was in labor for
over 24 hours.
And you know the the photos inthe whole thing and I never
dilated fully, but I did pushfor an hour, ran a fever and
then I had to get an emergency Csection.
(46:42):
Yeah, and we, my doctor, drLinda, loved her, loved her.
She's retired now.
She, she actually deliveredboth my children.
And.
But here's what was interestingAfter the C section, right, so
you're awake for it?
Yeah, yeah, daughter, she'sborn, she has all her fingers
(47:03):
and all her toes, she's healthy,everything's great.
I'm like thank God, right.
And Dr Linda says I'm so sorryyou, just you couldn't deliver.
Uh, you know, vaginally what?
Oh my God.
So she said to me, as they wererolling me out, and I looked at
her and I said I never eventhat, never even occurred to me.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
I'm not bummed out about it.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
This feels great, Like I'm pumped Right, Like I
was like this is great.
And I remember thinking is thatweird?
That's a little weird.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
I think she's you know, she's projecting, but I'm
a therapist.
I'm like you know, but you knowbut that therapist is such a
degree that after your emergencyC section I was like.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
I think she's projecting because this feels,
this is fine, I'm just glad.
I'm just glad my daughter ishealthy.
Right, I really was.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
I really mean that.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
But you know and I'm saying this because, look a
couple of things that I see allthe time right, we have these
expectations of how this isgonna go, how we want it to go,
and it's not necessarily gonnago that way, but it's something
that you really like, you'vetuned, you were like really
intuitive around, like helpingpeople navigate that process,
(48:19):
because it's so scary too, likeugh, yeah, everything about it,
yeah there's a lot there and Ialso I notice, like what you're
saying right now, it's scary.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
Like I, one of my goals in educating people is to
help them feel less scared.
Obviously, I can't change howsomeone feels, but I think
sometimes people think moreinformation is gonna make them
feel more anxious, but it'sactually the opposite is true.
Especially, I'm trying to be assensitive as possible and
(48:56):
present information in not ascary way, right?
So I think that's also part ofit is that I personally, for
whatever reason, I'm lucky Idon't have fear around birth, so
I so maybe that just I don'tknow.
(49:16):
That's like one of the thingsthat called me to this, like I
find it fascinating and amazingand a miracle and I don't find
it scary, but I know a lot of myclients do.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
So I try to give over like the passion.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
What are you saying?
I found it scary.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
I found it much scarier than I think even my
wife did, and you know we like Ithink, even asked like the
first time we met.
You know, when I was 16, I hada cousin die from Eclampsia
during delivery.
You know, she was like in herearly 20s and I it's funny Kim
was asking me the other daycause she knew how anxious I was
while Danny was pregnant andshe was just like you seem like
(49:51):
to be doing fine.
I was like, yeah, I wasliterally only scared about like
the pregnancy and delivery part, like now, with everything
seems okay.
But you did such a great job ofreally being there for me.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Do you think you're doing what you're meant to do?
Yeah, that's a broad, that's a.
I know that's a.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
I know it's a really good question.
How does it feel to say yes tothat?
How does it feel to say yes tothat, it feels good.
Speaker 3 (50:16):
It feels good.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
You seem surprised.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
It's like a huge question Because I don't know
what I would put on this earthto do yeah exactly, so I can't
say for sure.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
You know, I just have like a private convo with, like
you know God?
Speaker 3 (50:29):
or the first like, hey, the Lord, this is why
you're here.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
But you come so alive when you speak about this and
you know and the whole energychanged.
Speaker 3 (50:37):
Yeah, I feel like for me that was like a big like.
That was a big shift for me tojust start listening to my
intuition.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
I mean that was.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
I felt so drawn to this, to the birth world, like I
just felt so drawn to it, likeeven yesterday I was in Trader
Joe's and I saw a lady with ababy in the stroller a young
baby and the baby was crying andshe was trying to to food shop.
It took every fiber of my beingto like not go over to her and
be like, can I hold your baby?
Like absolutely.
(51:10):
And then there was a pregnantwoman.
It took I like didn't go overto her.
It took a lot of self-control.
I'm not sure if I should notapproach people I'm deciding but
anyway, I just feel like I'm sodrawn to like supporting new
moms after they have a baby andhelping people prepare for their
birth.
So I feel like that's liketelling me something.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
That is totally telling me something.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
That is information.
So that's why I feel like, yeah, this is what I'm supposed to
be doing and I know that, likewhen people like Jacob you were
saying how much it helps youhelps you, I know that I'm good
at it on some level.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
You're great at it.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
You're just good at it full stop.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
You don't have to add on some level.
It was period, right, it's just.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
I'm good at this, this is exactly why I wanted you
on here.
You know you come so alive whenyou talk about this.
This is something that, like sofew people, are passionate and
confident in speaking about in away that also inspires others.
That is such a gift.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
I know, Thank you, and I'm so pumped about this
because I didn't even you know.
I didn't really know what wouldbe taught.
I don't usually know, you know,like where the conversations?
Speaker 3 (52:18):
would go.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
And I feel so grateful because there really
are so many clients that I havethat I think just would like
appreciate hearing this from you.
Speaker 3 (52:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
So about your business?
So tell us a little bit moreabout it.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
Sure, so my business is called Birth Positive
Childbirth Education.
I offer classes for expectingfamilies, so childbirth
preparation classes.
I also do cover postpartumpreparation because of really
because I felt so blindsided bymy own postpartum experience so
(53:00):
I made me it makes sure toinclude some information about
the postpartum period, and I'malso certified full spectrum
Zula, which means that I cansupport people during their
birth as a birth Zula, and I canalso support people in the
postpartum period by providingpostpartum support and care,
which is basically like the momthat everyone wants after they
(53:23):
have a baby, but a lot of people, don't, lauren, you know?
So that's what a postpartum Zulais, and well, I had one.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
I had a postpartum Zula for both my kids.
I did because my mom died whenI was 15.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
And so.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
I love actually how you just phrase that.
I like wanna cry because I'mjust like Donna Iric, who is now
retired, but she was, she wasan older person, you know, and
she like single.
I just think like if I didn'thave I don't know what David and
I, I mean we would have keptcarried on.
(53:59):
But gosh, she walked into myhouse one day and she looked at
me and she just she just went, Igot him.
This was when I had Alex, butshe was just my postpartum for
both.
Give me him, just go upstairs,go to sleep.
And I was like, are you sure?
And she's like right now, likeyou need to go to sleep right
now.
Speaker 3 (54:17):
You're right yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
You know, I just for the first time I saw like this
parallel, because I don't knowif inherently we see, like the,
the transition of femininewisdom, like during the birth
process, from older women toyounger women, throughout this.
But I think there's a beautifulparallel in that transition, in
how intergenerational wisdom ispassed in the moment of birth
via women, historically, andthen also when, like the baby's
(54:42):
taken by the men to do thecircumcision and the breathe me
law.
It's like, yeah, that's apowerful moment, yeah it feels
like that and you know, both areboth beautiful beautiful and
scary moments and there's a niceparallel in that that.
I think in some ways, maybe hasreally been lost.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
Think so, I think so what do you mean yeah, I mean
there's certainly Go ahead, goahead.
No, no, you go ahead.
Speaker 3 (55:04):
No, there certainly is what to say.
That, though I'll speak aboutthe feminine side, the knowledge
of birth, just on a or I'll saylike the normalization of birth
has been lost, because we don'thave that, we just it used to
be like that when people were,you know, home birth was more
common and birth was just likemore normal and you lived in
(55:28):
more, you know, you lived closerto family and it was just
normal Like, oh, my cousin'shaving a baby, my mom's having a
baby, like everyone's having ababy, it's fine.
Now it's like we're just muchmore separated.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
Yeah, so she's not as communal.
Speaker 3 (55:40):
People.
You know most people are goingto the hospital to have their
birth.
So even if you have children,younger children, they're not
seeing their mother go intolabor, they're just like okay,
mommy went to the hospital, shecame back with baby, you know.
So it's kind of like lost and Ithink there's this cloud of
mysteries around it, but notlike there is a mystery of birth
(56:02):
which can be really positive.
But there's also this mysterywhich is a little bit scary
because like well, what happened?
Speaker 1 (56:07):
Like how did?
Speaker 3 (56:07):
that happen.
It's like fear of the unknown.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah, and yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:10):
so I think, yeah, there's a lot of work that could
be done there, but Can you, forthose people who are, like
potentially interested in, likeseeking your services, you know,
to kind of remove a little moremystery in that like how does
the process work?
How does someone reach out toyou?
How does like the classes work?
Are they group, Are they couple?
Like what's going on?
Speaker 3 (56:30):
Sure.
So the best way to getinformation about what I'm
offering is on my website,that's b-b-e-birthpositivecom.
You can email me atb-birthpositivegmailcom.
Speaker 1 (56:49):
We'll put this all in the show notes too, yeah.
Speaker 3 (56:51):
Yeah, so those are the ways to find out.
Slash, get in touch.
If someone is has questions andthey're not sure what they
wanna do, I offer, you know, afree call that we can just get
on the phone and talk and Icould see how you know if we're
a good fit and if what I docould help you.
Speaker 1 (57:08):
Oh my God, it's almost like therapy.
Speaker 3 (57:09):
This is great, yeah, yeah.
And in terms of the likestructure.
So I offer private classes aswell as group classes.
Right now, my group classes arevirtual and my private classes
are in person.
So if you are a very dedicatedclient and you travel all the
way from Philly to Long Islandto take your class, like Danny
(57:32):
and Jacob, we could do him first.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
We were there.
Anyway, we were there.
That is like we do have a lotof New Yorkers.
Speaker 3 (57:40):
We have a lot of New Yorkers that listen to this
podcast.
Yeah, so I'm based in NassauCounty and I work with local
clients privately, so that iswhere I'm at right now In terms
of doula support.
That's kind of evolving.
That's like a newer, a neweraddition to what I offer.
I feel grateful that listenedto myself, I guess listened to
(58:05):
my intuition, because it's muchmore energizing to be doing
something that feels authenticto who I am.
And even though what we spokeabout today was just really
specifically related to mycareer shift, I think that that
(58:25):
experience of having therealization of this doesn't work
for me.
This is something that I'mreally drawn to and now I'm
gonna do that Like thatexperience of doing something
that feels authentic to me.
It's not just limited to what Ido professionally.
It comes out in other areas too.
Speaker 2 (58:45):
Once you have felt the bliss of being aligned, you
can't unsee it, and then youcalibrate more and more through
it.
When you were talking about it,you just heard the lyric from
the Janis Joplin song like Peaceof my.
Heart.
I'm not gonna sing it, but itsays you know you got it when it
makes you feel good and the wayshe sings, whatever that's.
Speaker 3 (59:08):
But I'm grateful.
Speaker 2 (59:10):
And I think sometimes people think, oh, you have to
find yourself by going to aretreat or making like something
.
Speaker 1 (59:16):
Don't knock it.
There are people that do that,I know look, I found myself
going to Israel and everythingyou did a retreat.
Speaker 2 (59:22):
But I just wanna highlight that you don't have to
do that.
Not everyone can take two yearsout of their life like I took
out of my life.
Speaker 1 (59:28):
You found it, or like a weekend Sedona, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:31):
But you know, lauren, you found it by continuing to
push and rediscover it, and yourchildren have a lot to do with
that.
There's I guess there'sgratitude to your own kids and
helping you figure that out.
Speaker 3 (59:45):
Right?
I think so yeah.
Speaker 1 (59:47):
And I have gratitude for you.
Speaker 2 (59:50):
You have no idea, thank you, you have no idea.
Speaker 3 (59:52):
Thank you for letting me come on.
Sorry, it felt likeenlightening to myself to just
tell over this whole experience,so I appreciate you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
Yeah, we're so happy that you could come.
Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
What a moment.
Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Oh, and one more thing, if anyone's interested in
hearing your full birth story,didn't you tell it on a podcast
at some point?
Another one I did.
Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
I told my first.
Yeah, I told my first, secondand fourth on the podcast, but
the third one got left out.
Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Okay, which is?
Is that something that, like,you'd like us to make a link to?
Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
Sure, I get to send you the link.
Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Okay, all right.
So, lauren, thank you so muchfor joining us.
Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Thank you so much for coming.
Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
We feel so grateful to have you.
Thanks, Kim.
Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
You're welcome, welcome, so glad I know you now
All right, thanks, lauren,likewise.
Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
Okay, thanks so much.
Thanks so much.
Enjoy your day, okay, you too.
Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Thank you so much for listening to today's episode.
If anything in today's episodespoke to you, please like,
subscribe, rate and review.
You can also help us grow byfollowing us on Instagram and
Facebook at Intuitive ChoicesPodcast.
Most importantly, make sure toshare today's episode with
friends and family.
Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
And if there's anybody that you know that you
think would be a great guest onIntuitive Choices, please email
us at intuitivechoicespodcast atgmailcom.
Finally, if you wanna know moreabout our mental health
practice, intuitive counselingand wellness, please check us
out atintuitivecounselingoffillycom.
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