What it Really Takes to be an Entrepreneur; Lessons From Zane Johnson

Zane Johnson is the founder and Managing Attorney of MZA Legal, a virtual law firm which helps entrepreneurs establish the legal footing they need to make their dreams into a reality. In today's episode. Zane takes us on a journey through his challenges and triumphs, sharing how, networks held together by the love and respect of mentors and specialists are key to success.

In reflecting on what led him to start his own firm, Zane opens up about his mother's brave battle with breast cancer and the deep impact it had on his life and work. Zane’s story teaches us how to navigate this difficult terrain, finding balance through self-knowledge and self-respect. His mother's legacy continues to reverberate through his life, reminding us all to cherish every moment.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey everybody, I'm Kimberly Dobbs.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
And I'm Jacob Miller.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
And we'd like to welcome you to another episode
of Intuitive Choices.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Kim and I are mental health therapists working in
Philadelphia.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Each week, we invite a guest to speak about how their
own intuitive choices have ledthem to live a more meaningful
life.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
We hope that this conversation encourages you to
make meaningful choices in yourown life.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Alright, off we go.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Let's do it Okay.
Hi everybody, today I'm sograteful and excited to welcome
my old college buddy, zaneJohnson, to the podcast.
The reason that I wanted Zaneto come on today is not just
because he's an old friend, butreally I've been able to watch

(00:47):
him, his family and his businessgrow from afar for a few years
now, and I have just beencheering him on from the
sidelines.
I think it's prettyextraordinary what he's been
able to build both duringcollege and post college, in his
personal life and professionallife, and it's a lesson I want
to learn more from myself and Ithink our listeners can learn
more from as a whole.
Without further ado, welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Welcome.
We'll pump to have you.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
Thank you, I'm excited to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah.
So, zane, to start off, I think, like the most prevalent party
that's on social media, besidesthe pictures of your beautiful
family, is the legal servicesyou provide and the law firm
that you've grown, and I wonderif you could just tell us more
about your business and how yougot there.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, definitely so well, thank you for having me
first of all, it's definitely apleasure.
You know my name is Zane Johnsonand I have my own firm.
It's called Mza legal.
It is a virtual black owned lawfirm that focuses on helping
self funded entrepreneurs builda solid foundation for the

(01:52):
future growth of their business.
So a lot of what I'm doing issetting up LLCs and corporations
and drafting and reviewingcontracts, and registering
trademarks and helping peopleunderstand what their
intellectual property is Justall of those things that sit at
making sure that your businesshas a solid foundation that
ultimately is going to allow youto grow, whatever growth looks

(02:14):
like for you.
And I often like to say youknow, I want to be that person
there that when opportunitycomes knocking, you know I'm
there to help you find yourpants so you can open the door.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
And so you know I love what I do.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
I love the fact that I get to work with.
You know so many newentrepreneurs, solopreneurs, you
know folks who are building abusiness from the ground up,
because I think a lot of folkswho are in that position where
they're trying to bridge the gapfrom idea to a solid, what I
like to call base camp business,and so I think that's a passion
project for them.

(02:48):
It's something that they'vealways kind of dreamed of, and
now they're out there getting tomake it happen and I get to be
a part of that story.
So it's.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
I really enjoy the work that I get to do.
What like what I mean I don'twant to speak for you, but what
fulfilling work that must be foryou.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
Yeah, oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
I can't wait to know, like, how you got here.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Well, I mean, I think it's so, it it's like anything
else, you know, I think, andeven so, like realizing now,
like being a business owner Ithink surely two of you can
probably relate to this but likebefore you jump out there and
and you're kind of doing it onyour own, you have those dreams
and it's very romanticized interms of like you think it's
just going to be great times,like all around, and you know

(03:28):
that there will be hard times,but you like even romanticize
that to thinking, like imaginingyourself, like overcoming those
obstacles.
And you know, and really youknow, running your own business
is still like a job in the sensethat, like most of what you're
doing is like the day to day,like drudgery that like you
don't necessarily enjoy.

(03:48):
But it's kind of like I startedplaying golf recently because my
father-in-law is really intogolf and he explains it like you
know, you'll hit like all theselike awful shots, and then
you'll hit this one is likebeautiful and it's like straight
and it's like man, it's likewow, and so you just keep coming
back because you want thatfeeling and that feeling again

(04:09):
and and running a business is iskind of like that, as I feel
like, especially as you getstarted, like there's struggles
and a lot of what you're doingas you're getting started isn't
the stuff that, like you, youknow, like doing the bookkeeping
and you know.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
I'll say this in you know it's like so many people
have dreams, right.
It's far less pursue thosedreams and even less than that,
succeed in any facet of thosedreams right.
And to me that's really whatstands out about what you've
been able to accomplish so far,like, how old are you?
32.
32.
Is that alright to say?
Is?

Speaker 1 (04:41):
that going to hurt your business?

Speaker 3 (04:43):
Not at all, you know.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
But you know, to get to where you are by 32, that's
like really not easy and it'sthat.
It's that fine line of like.
You know, the harder you work,the luckier you are.
Yeah, and essentially, I guess,what hard work did you have to
put in to get so lucky?

Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yeah, I mean, I think , I think a lot of it is just
put trying to put yourself inthe right position at the right
times for like opportunity,because you never know when
different opportunities aregoing to come about, and I think
, particularly in business.
One of the things that I'velearned is, you know, it really
is a team sport.
I don't, I'm a solopreneur,which means, you know, I'm the

(05:26):
only person in my business, Idon't have employees, I don't
have a business partner, and so,you know, I think for a long
time I was, you know, thought ofmyself as being on my own and
then gradually realize that youcan still build a team without
necessarily having folks who areemployees or having a business
partner, but that that team justlooks like, okay, it's a mentor

(05:50):
here, it's you know, someonewho I can reach out to, to, you
know, schedule a consultation orwho can help me with marketing
or what it like you put yourteam.
How do you build the team?
It's, it's getting out thereand meeting people, and I think
I always focus on trying to workwith people who I feel like if
everything went wrong,regardless of whether or not we

(06:11):
have a contract or not, do Ifeel like this person would do
right by me?

Speaker 2 (06:16):
Right Like do I feel like they would be?

Speaker 3 (06:18):
open to like a fair resolution, to whatever it may
be right, because you're alwaysgoing to run into conflict at
some point.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
So something you said a few minutes ago, when, when
Jacob asked you like how, howdid you get so lucky?
Essentially like to be the ageyou are, the business you have,
and you and you said just makingsome some right, like the right
timing, you know the rightchoices, whatever those things
are.
But the larger question then ishow do you know what feels

(06:53):
quote unquote right?
Because it's not so much aboutright or wrong, and you can't
know whether something is rightor wrong until the outcome
actually happens.
Yeah, but you have made a I meanjust even everything you're
saying already so many decisions, right, like okay, I'm a solo,
I'm a solopreneur, I you know Ineed to to.
Okay, I need a mentor, I needthis.

(07:15):
All these decisions that you'remaking day to day, what's
guiding that for you?

Speaker 3 (07:21):
I think it's.
It's being able to trust yourgut, but I think bigger than
that it is being able to suspenddoubt to a certain extent.
So, like that voice in yourhead that tells you like this
isn't good enough, I need towork on it longer or that'll
never work.
To a certain extent, you haveto shut that voice out to be

(07:42):
able to put it out.
I'm lucky that my wiferecognizes a lot of my own
tendencies that tend to hold meback from being my best self and
is able to kind of snap me backinto reality at different
points in time.
So, like my screensaver on theback of my laptop is actually
something that she said to meone day where I was.

(08:02):
I was working on something andI don't remember what it was,
but it could have been anythingand I was working on it and I've
been working on it for like aweek, and she was like don't you
think it's like good enough yet?
And I was like I don't know.
And she was like, well, youknow, it doesn't have to be
perfect.
Just put it out there, you know.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
And I think that something just as simple as that
right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
Knowing your wife, knowing Elizabeth, I can totally
see her.
She's super practical and I'mmore like in the clouds.
Oh, my goodness, yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
It's nice to have someone to kind of balance you
out and that's, you know, like.
One of the things that I'verealized over time is like my
wife is my business partner.
You know, from the perspectiveof we're just got the chills for
some reason, you know likewe're in this journey together,
like, however, whether it worksout or doesn't work out, like
she's impacted and affected bythat as well.
And then she also she knows mereally well, so she's able to

(08:57):
kind of say, you know, hey,here's what I'm seeing.
Or, you know, she's able to kindof give me the perspective of
someone on the outside lookingin, of you know here's what
seems to be bugging you, or youknow here's what seems to be
exciting you, or just whateverthe situation might be.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
What a great way to align your priorities, Like
inherently of like you know howdo you prioritize, like work
over family and all these thingslike that.
But you, in saying that that,like our spouses, we can, we can
or significant whoever you know, saying that Elizabeth is your
business partner.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
It shows so clearly how you're working to live, not
living to work.
Yeah, that's a real significantalignment of those priorities.
Can you think of anything thatlike got you to that point?

Speaker 3 (09:39):
Um, you know, that's a really good question.
I'd like to say that it's justa part of who I am, but I know
that, like you know, like Iwasn't born with like the like
oh, I don't.
So I think what it really comesfrom is, like you know, my
mother always used to tell me,like she always used to tell me,

(10:01):
to take breaks.
You know what I mean, cause Idefinitely, especially as a kid,
I, was someone who could getfrustrated when things weren't
working the way that I wantedthem to.
Or, you know, I'm someone, andI still am someone who can hyper
focus on something and justreally get locked in on that.
You know, and one of the thingsI she always used to tell me,

(10:22):
you know take breaks, rememberto take breaks, remember to take
breaks for yourself.
And you know, just sort ofunderstanding that there are a
lot of things that are moreimportant than the work, and the
work is serving a largerpurpose, you know.
So don't kind of don't losesight of that aspect of it.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
That's really a gift to not only be taught that from
a young age, but also to be ableto embody it.
Yeah, can you tell us a littlemore about what growing up was
like, when you grew up in thePhiladelphia suburbs?
Right, go to Philly, boy.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
I mean, I really had a great life growing up.
You know, like I think I'm verygrateful for.
I'm very grateful for myparents, my family, older
brother, you know I just I had alot of people who supported me
and having that support system Ithink as a young person gave me
a lot of confidence.
And so just to try new things,be a little bit different, and

(11:17):
then even at times when I didn'twant to step outside of that
box, having someone you knowchallenge me to kind of do that,
you know, like one example, Ican remember my mom like putting
me in tennis lessons and likethinking like tennis isn't cool.
Like I don't want to play tennisLike I'm like 10 and you know,
she put me in tennis lessons andI liked it.
You know like she made me.

(11:38):
She made me take ice skatinglessons.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
And.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
I didn't want to do it and then I ended up really
enjoying it and so-.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
Did she ever explain to you, like what made her put
you in sports like that thatwere not necessarily like you
know, like they were a littlebit different, right Then maybe,
what your other friends weredoing?
I?

Speaker 3 (11:58):
mean I think that she was lucky enough when she was
younger to have some of thoseexperiences.
Like I remember her when she,when I was a kid, telling me
about, you know, like being inski club and high school and
like getting to go on like fieldtrips, to like go skiing and
like how those experiences Ithink kind of broadened her
perspective.

(12:19):
And so I think that she you knowboth me and my brother, like
she did the same thing for bothof us, but you know, being able
to have experiences that aresort of outside of the norm and
outside of what was necessarilyexpected.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
And really that like sounds like it kind of set the
tone for you, like just ageneral, like the way that you
operate in the world is like Ican be a little bit different.
I can like do things a littlebit differently.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah, definitely.
I think it's.
I know, I didn't know thatabout you.
You know the ski lessons, thetennis lessons or the I didn't
get to do ski lessons.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
I know I'm not scared of you Sowing on those yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
Well, I feel like the next step after golf is
probably going to be this skilessons.
But you know to me, you knowlike we hung out in similar
circles in college and you werea year or two older than me.
But to me you were the footballplayer you know how you played.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Oh, you played football.
I did, I played football incollege.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
Football was my first , first, first true love, and
yeah so it's funny now too, Ithink, being a being a dad and
my son's two and a half, andhe's in love with football.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
How is it Two and a half year old?
In love with football, oh mygoodness it's, it's insane.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
We had we had to get him a football helmet because he
was like obsessed with like,any time he saw a bike helmet,
any type of helmet man.
We took him to Dick's SportingGoods.
It was like, like it was likewe took him to Chuck E Cheese.
Oh my he was so excited All thedifferent like sports balls and
and equipment and justeverything you know.

(13:53):
But the interesting part aboutthat is, you know, my dad is
like a football fanatic, youknow, eagles fan, like Bleeds
Green, like yeah.
And so, you know, growing up Iwas in love with football and I
think a lot of people,especially, like you know,
within a family, we're kind oflike oh you're, you know, you're
kind of pushing him towardsthis, but it was never like that
and it and it's like it's weirdbecause you know, now seeing my

(14:17):
son and it's like he's in lovewith sports in general and
football in particular, and it'slike I haven't done anything.
So it's like it's weird to justsee how that, you know, it's
almost like there's some sort ofenergy that he can feel when
I'm watching football or whenI'm watching sports, that he
just also gravitates towards.
I don't know what it is, butit's.

(14:38):
It's crazy to like he lovessports more than I do.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Let's make your dad so happy to see him Both my dad
and my wife's dad too becauseit's like both of them are
sports fans, so it's he comes byhonestly, yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
I want to.
I want to just circle back to.
So.
You are an attorney and youhave this, this business, right.
How did you?
What made you decide to becomean attorney in the first place?

Speaker 3 (15:01):
Oh, that's a good question.
So it was kind of like the itreally started that the, I guess
the idea of it started when Iwas younger and people used to
say well, you like to argue, soyou should be an attorney.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
How young is young?

Speaker 3 (15:15):
I mean, like you know , seven, eight, and, and so you
got a mouth, and so it's likewell, I mean like in my family,
like we used to argue for fun,like that.
Like we would have like familygatherings, especially
particularly on my mom's side.
We'd have family gatherings andthen, like after we ate, like
the family activity wasbasically to sit around in a

(15:36):
circle and debate whatever'sgoing on and so you know, like
debating and arguing was kind oflike a part of it's a part of
of who I am in a sense, but Ithink that's a very naive way of
like thinking about whatattorneys do, and so actually
had the opportunity to go to lawschool.
What really kind of drove metowards that was, you know, I

(15:59):
wanted to help people and I knewthat having a law degree would
give me, put me in a position tobe able to have an impact in
the world.
And then the other thing is Iwanted to have a beamer.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
If.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
I'm being.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
if I'm being completely honest, that was like
my SNA BMW.
Yes, it's in a BMW.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
That was my dream car , oh my goodness In high school
and college, and so I was like Ican do both of these things if
I go to law school.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Now I don't know how long you were married for or how
long you've been married for,but you know you give a lot of
props to Elizabeth as to likehow she is such a support system
for you and following your gut.
Now it sounds like there was alot of you following your gut in
going to law school andpursuing that and helping people
.
So like what do you attributethat to if Elizabeth wasn't yet

(16:46):
in the picture?

Speaker 3 (16:47):
Yeah, I mean, I think the following, my gut part, has
always been something that I'vebeen pretty good at.
It's I think it's being able tosort of temper some of the more
extreme thought processes orideas that I might have.
Like I said, I'm veryidealistic.
So you know, when I again whenI went to law school, I was like
I'll be able to help people andI'll be able to make a bunch of

(17:08):
money.
And then I got to law schooland I started to really figure
out what lawyers actually do.
And Where'd you go to lawschool?
Temple, the wows.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
And so what.
Anything silly.
Yes, yes, gotta throw that inthere.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
Really in law school and I think in particular at a
school like temple it's, youknow, it's a state like
university.
And so you're kind of likeencouraged to go either like the
big law route where you work atlike a large firm and you work
these crazy hours and you makegood money.
But to me I was like I don'twanna work all those hours doing

(17:48):
work that isn't gonna befulfilling to me because I know
I'm gonna take that Like I knewmyself well enough to know I'm
gonna take that money and I'mgonna go to the bar with it.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
Like I'm gonna take that money and I'm gonna oh my
gosh, hi, I wanna go crazy Like.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
I'm just being honest .
So I was like I don't want thatbecause I think I'll be
miserable.
So the other route was likepublic interest, was just like
working in government or workingfor nonprofits or just, you
know, doing some sort of workthat's kind of more related to
the public community, society,that sort of thing.
And so I was lucky enough tohave an opportunity to intern at

(18:23):
the homeless advocacy projectafter my first year of law
school and that was aeye-opening moment for me
because, I think, one it reallyopened my eyes to the level of
impact that I can have on oneperson's life.
Just even having a conversationwith someone, like the impact

(18:43):
that that can have on someone.
And, in particular, you know,when you're talking about people
who are either homeless or, youknow, on the brink of being
unhoused, it's like oftentimes,like these are people who are
overlooked.
You know someone who you knowpeople try their best to try to
act like don't exist and so evenjust having that conversation

(19:04):
can be impactful.
You know, that led me towards,you know, public interest work
and, again, like doing work thatfelt more purpose-driven.
So at that point I kind of hadto make the decision.
Well, you know, maybe one dayI'll have the beamer, but if I
get it, I get it, if not, it'snot that important.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
That's a huge transition.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, Jacob, go for it.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
There's so much self-knowledge and of who you
have to be to fine-tune yourcareer, to knowing like if I go
this route, I may have a lot ofmoney, it'll be bad for me I
need the fulfillment and butthere's also a lot of self-love
and knowing I'm allowed to dowork that is fulfilling and
serve mankind and at the sametime, make a living along the

(19:47):
way, that's exactly right.
That is a very difficult line towalk, which is, I'm just gonna
say, externally.
From the outside it's like adetestament to your own
self-respect, I think, which ishuge to have that level of
well-being.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
And self-awareness.
I mean it's really profoundactually to like bear witness to
that, like to hear this.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Can you think of anything that may have happened
to help focus you, to have thatlevel of self-knowledge, focus,
self-respect?

Speaker 3 (20:14):
Yeah, well, I mean, I think so.
Before law school, right beforeI got into law school, I lost
my mother to breast cancer.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
And that.
So how old were you when she?

Speaker 3 (20:25):
I was 22.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
And how long did she?
Was she sick for?

Speaker 3 (20:29):
She was sick.
She was diagnosed my junioryear, and so I think she had it,
for it would have been like ayear and some change about a
year and a half.
I mean it was when she told me.
I remember when she called meand told me and I remember not

(20:51):
taking it as seriously as I feellike I would now, because I
just imagined her beating it.
I just couldn't really imaginethat it was something and she
was so graceful in the way thatshe battled it, because you
never would have known what shewas really going through and I

(21:15):
didn't really understand or knowuntil we were kind of like at
the end, because she also, shewas like, she wasn't like
telling us, like here's exactlywhat the doctors are saying,
like well, it was more likeeverything's gonna be okay, here
are the different treatments,like here's what they're telling
me as far as like what I needto do and here are the things
that I need from you.
But it wasn't like a, it wasn'treally until we got to the

(21:39):
point where I was actually onspring break and I was in
Atlantic City and I got a callfrom my neighbor who was like
your mom was outside and shelike wasn't making sense and
like things just didn't reallyseem right.
So like the ambulance is here,like they're coming to, like
take her to the hospital.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
And what was that phone call like for you?

Speaker 3 (22:01):
It was like it was devastating, because I think by
that point it had been about ayear.
I really I could kind of seehow the illness was affecting
her.
You know, like she was losingweight.
She wasn't able to get around aswell, you know, and so I could

(22:21):
see how it was really affectingher.
And so getting that call waskind of like getting a wake up
call that like, yeah, this is,this could be, you know, the
beginning of the end, in a sense.
And it turned out that it was,you know, but I think also, you

(22:41):
know, so that was like earlyMarch of 2013.
And she passed away in May.
So you know, I think-.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
Having, I think, kind of the experience over that,
that two month period betweenkind of like having that
realization that like, okay,this is something that is most
likely going to be terminal forher, and like kind of coming to
terms with that.
It was.
It was a period of time where Igot to like really appreciate

(23:16):
her presence in a way that, likeyou don't, like you take people
for granted, you know.
And I think that having that twomonth period where you know
again I just kind of goingthrough that experience, it
really made me so grateful forlike every moment you know at
that point you know.
So I actually have some prettyfond memories, kind of just

(23:38):
during that period as odd as itmay sound of just like spending
time with her.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
Not odd at all, actually.
Yeah, it sounds like it wasreally like very intentional
time spent you know, with her.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
I can't.
You know, I really didn't knowyou were going through this when
we were in school together.
You know, and uh, I think I'mlike feeling the, the
jarringness of it.
Not only that it's your mom andthat it was so rapid, but you
know, muhlenberg's a smallschool, like two thousand some
students, and they have like aFeel like they have a strong

(24:11):
like culture in the senior yearof it's like a really a big
party.

Speaker 3 (24:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
And I remember, like from spring break to graduation,
it's just like everyone is likecompletely intoxicated,
literally and frigidly all thetime.
You know, and to go from the tobeing woken up during spring
break through, like the seniorweek celebrations where the
school really tries to celebratethe seniors, that I cannot.
I Cannot fully appreciate howjarring that would must have

(24:40):
been to go back and forth inthat.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
Yeah, it was.
It was crazy because it waslike I was living in in two
worlds and so the back and forth, like that.
It was very much like that andI think you know so, basically,
like my mom was in the hospitaland then you know pretty much in
hospice care and you know soMuhlenberg is like an hour up
the road from where I'm from in.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
Ambler oh that's where I live.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
Okay, yeah, yeah.
So you know, grew up in Amblerand so she was, you know, in in
hospice care and you know Iwould, you know, come back,
spend time with her and I waskind of just really back and
forth and I think you know,during that time is it was like
processing a lot of differentemotions.
You know, obviously I'm sad.
You know there are aspects, youknow I'm, you know, feeling

(25:27):
angry, you know, I think, butthe some of the overarching
feelings that I remember feelingwere like envy in a sense and.
Resentment, I think, towardssome of my, just towards my
classmates in general who, likeno one, no one did really know
kind of what I was going throughand feeling like you know,

(25:48):
everyone is enjoying this periodof transition and kind of
celebrating this, thisaccomplishment, and I'm having
to.
You know, I was also feeling acertain level of guilt, I think,
with being at school.
Yeah it's kind of like, I know Iknow what's coming like.
Should I even like?
Should I even, you know, beenjoying or celebrating anything

(26:12):
with my classmates?
Should I be spending all of mytime, you know, at my mother's
side, like you know?
Just just a lot of differentEmotions to kind of process, you
know.
But I just think, you know, oneof the things that I just kept
going back to that I thinkhelped me kind of through that
time and afterwards was justfeeling grateful, reminding

(26:33):
myself of how lucky I was, youknow, to have had, you know, my
mother in my life and and youknow, honestly, she was, you
know, no disrespect to dad, lovemy dad, but to me I feel like
my mom was like the best Parentthat you could imagine, you know
, and so like to have to havehad the experience of having her

(26:57):
in my life and Experiencing herlove for the years that I did,
you know, I was just gratefulfor that and and that kind of
help help get me through, youknow, those periods that whole,
I like, I can feel like my eyesare just like Well, I know
what's tears hearing you speak.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
How do you feel like that entire experience you know
just having to to make those tonavigate right, like graduating
school and the celebratoryaspects of that that you're
Wanting to participate in butlike can't really.
And then you're, you know,sharing those times with your
mom as she's going through herillness and how do you feel like

(27:36):
that all shaped you to Now dowhat you're doing, even in like
in your personal life, toprofessionally, personally, like
.
In what ways do you feel likethat's shaped you?

Speaker 3 (27:47):
I mean, I think when you experience the loss of a
loved one that up close andpersonal it, it brings a sense
of how real and final death isyeah and so it makes you
appreciate the moments that youhave a little bit more.
And I think the the other parttoo was, after she passed away,

(28:09):
getting to see how much she hadput in place.
That really helped to make surethat I was kind of taking care
of Right.
So, like when she passed away,like she had life insurance, she
owned her home, you know solike she she had actually been,
she had been laid off, you know,up maybe a couple years prior

(28:30):
to her passing away and Neverworked full-time again, but you
know so to have had everythingkind of in order so that when
she passed away, like I wasactually left with enough where
I could, you know, with thescholarships that I got, pay my
way through law school andHonestly have enough left over
to put a down payment on a houseafter coming out of law school.

(28:52):
And so, like you know again,this isn't someone who was like
wealthy, like she never made youknow a whole bunch of money in
her work, but she preparedherself for, you know, if
something like this were tohappen, you know my sons will be
taken care of, and so I thinkthat that piece as well really
has Been what's inspired me tolike say you know, I want to

(29:15):
build something that I can leaveto the next generation.
Well, also like wanting to likelead a life that's very like
purposeful and fulfilling.
You know, like she wasdefinitely someone who, like she
, went on vacation Every summer,like, regardless she was going
on vacation in.
August like second week ofAugust like.

(29:35):
I'm gonna be on vacation, sodon't bother me, and that sort
of thing.
You know someone who, who tooktheir time, someone who you know
just enjoyed some of the simplethings in life you know, like
taking a walk or eating lunchoutside.
You know things like that.
You know an understanding that,the meaning that they give to
life.
So you know, I think, just interms of you know,

(29:56):
professionally and purpose andpersonally, just taking the time
to enjoy those things thatbring me happiness and bring me
joy and not being ashamed ofthat.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
It's, it's a, it's a special Depth of love that isn't
just the love of you know, ahug, a smile, a gift.
It's the love of actuallyManifesting responsibility to
care for someone, and thatresponsible love I actually
don't think is so common.
Yeah, and to have amulti-generational view of the,

(30:26):
of the effects that you makewill affect future generations,
mm-hmm.
Unfortunately, I think that's alesson that can only be learned
via someone's passing.

Speaker 3 (30:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 3 (30:39):
I mean getting an opportunity to See what others
have done and having thatpersonal, that personal
experience with it.
I remember growing up and Likein my mother's side of the
family they had, I think at onepoint like owned, like you know,
this land in Gwynedd Valley,which I don't if you're familiar

(31:01):
with that area.
It's like a very wealthy area.
Yeah, at this point and Iremember my grandmother saying,
like you know, the family ownedthis land but then when you know
your great-grandmother passedand your you know great-uncle
passed, like there wasn't anyonethere who was like really
responsible for taking care ofit and, although like somebody

(31:24):
could have stepped in and didthat, no one did and, you know,
lost the property to like taxes.
You know so like you know, Ithink also like passing along
those experiences of history andkind of knowing Knowing what's
happened within your family andand knowing the mistakes that
others have made, hopefullyhelps you to be able to avoid

(31:44):
those mistakes.
And I know, you know, like mydad is a huge storyteller and
and that's one of the ways thatI've learned, learned from him
over the years, to be able to.
You know, I've made a lot ofthe same mistakes that he's made
, but, having heard the stories,being able to realize, okay,
that's, that's, that's what hewas talking about when he told
me, told me about that one.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
You know it's between theoretical and embodied
knowledge, exactly exactly right.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
So it's like okay, I don't need to make that mistake
again, because he told me aboutit, I experienced it.
Okay now.
Now I can kind of move forward.
I don't have to.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
It's really interesting because I'm thinking
about what, what your businessis all about, about Helping
people and very particularlylike there's you know, people
who you want to be helping, thefound the foundational pieces of
starting a business is like Nowwe're hearing your story and
I'm going, oh, this all makes somuch sense, right, because

(32:37):
there's been a lot of thingsthat have happened in your life
and, most significantly, how,when your mother passed away,
she really Made sure you weretaken care of and these very
tangible ways, you and yourbrother, and then it's like
you're, it's like you're takingthat almost is like a legacy and
you are carrying on.
It's almost like you're.

(32:58):
That's how that's.
I don't want to speak for you,but it's like.
I just see it like this, likesuch a beautiful way of like
carrying your mother, you know,like just Sharing your mother it
very much informs the work thatI choose to do, because I think
you know so.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
Like I said, in terms of when I was in law school, I
decided to go the publicinterest route.
I went to, I went and worked ata small nonprofit doing you
went straight from undergrad tolaw school.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
When straight from undergrad to law school when did
when, in May, did your mom passaway like before after
graduation?

Speaker 3 (33:31):
It was actually a week before graduation.
Oh my god, yeah, oh my gosh soit was um, it was it was crazy
Did you go to your graduation.
Yeah, I did the my mom'sfuneral, I think was a Couple
days before the graduation, youknow.
So I had, I think I had anopportunity to kind of you know,
say goodbye, and then notreally enjoyed graduation.

(33:55):
But you know, it was kind oflike the closing of two chapters
in a sense.
I was still going through the,the grieving process, but the
funeral to me was a huge, Ithink, played a huge role in
like the grieving process for mein terms of just Giving me a
space to let things out that Ithink that I've been holding in.

(34:15):
I think, especially when itcomes to, you know, the, the
sadness and that sort of thingyou know.
But when I you know, aftergoing through law school, you
know I went to work at a smallnonprofit doing criminal record
expungement work, which I Love,the work, I love the ability to

(34:38):
you know work with folks and andyou know these are folks who
you know a lot of people don'tknow when you have a criminal
record, that the way that itimpacts someone's life, you know
it might be employment, that'swhat we think of most frequently
, but it could also be somethinglike getting a loan to go back
to school, or Someone who waslike in their 70s being able to

(34:59):
get into an assisted livingfacility, or even like being
able to go on field trips withyour kids, coach the little, the
Little League team you know.
So it was.
I really loved the work insense of, in the sense of how
impactful I felt like it was,but the.
The thing I didn't love about itwas that I felt like I was kind
of swimming upstream, in thesense that it's like I'm trying

(35:21):
to undo and use these likeprocesses that are like
difficult to navigate for likeno good reason to help people be
able to Get back their fulllife right, like these are folks
who you know are 5, 10, 15, 20years removed from like any
Interaction with law enforcementand, in some cases, folks who

(35:44):
weren't even ever convicted ofanything, so like if they were
charged with something they'dstill have a record until they
got it expunged, and so you knowit felt like I'm trying to like
undo things that have been done.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
Are you speaking more like systemically?
Yeah, yeah, yeah you know.

Speaker 3 (36:01):
So, like it's, it's like people are continuing to be
punished for something thatThey've already, you know either
serve their punishmentpunishment, for, you know, that
happened years ago.
So, you know, what I love aboutworking with entrepreneurs is I
have the opportunity to havethe opportunity to do work that
feels very freeing, in the sensethat I'm helping someone to

(36:21):
build something that allows themto then, you know, build this
sort of life that they want tolive, whatever that looks like,
and and also build somethingthat they can then pass on to
future generations.
And I feel like it's a way forme to Be able to give back,
because there's there really isa lack of Affordable and
accessible, and when I sayaccessible, I mean, you know,

(36:44):
not just Is it affordable, butalso like, is it?
Does it feel approachable?
right like a lot of lawyers andlaw firms, it for a lot of
people it doesn't feelapproachable.
You know, talking in aneveryday language, making it
clear in terms of like, if Icall you, are you gonna send me
a bill?
Yeah, you know.
So, like how to you know justall of those different things?

Speaker 1 (37:05):
and I think that humanizing a process for a lot
of people.
Let's be honest, you know.
They don't like attorneys, youknow and it's an intimidating
experience and, and you gosh,you're just humanized the whole
experience.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
Trying to yeah, no, you're doing it.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
I keep saying this how can you?

Speaker 2 (37:27):
There is so much less that stops people living their
lives than the passing of abeloved mother and I.
How did you go from your, fromyour mother's funeral before
graduation and Continue to go tolaw school?
I, where does that come from?
Um, you know, I think it's morehabit energy than anything else

(37:50):
, like?

Speaker 3 (37:51):
I don't think.
I think was it even a question?
What's?
What is habit, energy, what isthat?
I've never heard of this.
Um, it might not be a thing.
You just made it a thing.
You know, I think of it interms of, like you know.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
Like, a body of motion will stay in motion.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
A body at rest will stay at rest, like one of those
momentum sort of things where,like, when you have a certain
way of of going about doingthings, then you know that's the
way that you're going tocontinue to go about it.
So I think, you know, for me itwas all like a lot of my
experiences were, you know,built around football, again my

(38:29):
mother.
So, like, just you know, and sofor me, right, football,
football is a sport where, likeyou've always got it, you got to
move on to the next play, likeno matter what happened last
play.
You know, I think that's a goodthing the next play, like no
matter what happened last play,you've got to move on to the
next play.
You got a.

(38:49):
So, like a, good example cleanyeah a good example, like when I
was in college.
We were playing our rival johnshopkins, who was always really
good, and I made a stupid play.
I hit a guy out of bounds andthen I was pissed at myself.
So I like threw my mouthpieceand the ref thought that I was
like yelling at him for throwingthe flag.
So, he then threw another flag,so I just got like 30 yards

(39:11):
worth of penalties on this oneplay and I'm like I'm I'm
literally, like, you know,feeling awful because I'm like,
man, this is a big game, it's ait's close to still early and I
just made this huge, hugemistake, um, and it's like, all
right, you know, move on to thenext play.
And then, you know, one of ourcornerbacks, kairi hues, bailed

(39:33):
me out big time on the very nextplay because an interception
and I'm like, thank you bro Likethank you.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
But that's, you know, like that but you were able to
say to yourself in that moment,through all that, like rage or
whatever you want to call it,like you know, you just got to
focus on the next play.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
That's the only thing you can do like, like, like,
like the game will continue togo on, and, and so I think what
a metaphor for life.
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Holy cow, I want to say the s word, but I don't want
to hit explicit on our nextepisode.
But yes, that's amazing, I likethat's, that's life.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
You know, like the, something happens and then you
know the next play is is coming,so you gotta, you gotta line up
and play it, Um, or else youknow, the mistake will continue
to compound itself and that's, Ithink that's what you
ultimately want to try to avoid.
And my mother, you know shenever plays sports, but she was
very much like that just as ahuman being.
It was All right.

(40:27):
You know, time to move on.
Like that happened, so it's.
You know, now it's time to likemove on to the next thing and
Not like.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
It's not in a crass way, but no one's saying like,
except when you say like time tomove on, it's like almost.
It's not just that you aremoving on, it's like time has
actually passed, literally.
This is actually a newsituation.
You can either choose to beMentally stuck in a previous act
that was imperfect and bringingyou like resentment, shame,
anger, whatever, because itwasn't perfect, or it could be
like nope, things are actuallydifferent now and I'm gonna

(40:56):
learn from whatever the otherthing was and keep moving in the
in the present.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah, and I, you know , I don't really know, you know,
I think the other thing interms of like Habits, like I
don't know how I would havereacted differently had that not
been my graduation year,because I think again, like
transitioning from everythingwithin that moment in time Was
kind of like a, a transitionfrom having less responsibility

(41:23):
to having more right, so like,my mom passes.
Now I've got to deal with herestate.
You know the house bills that Ididn't have to worry about
before, um, and you know it was.
It was, you know, as I'm alsoheading into law school.
So I think that you know, likethat kind of next, next play
mentality, um, so to speak, itwas also just kind of born in it

(41:45):
.
It was also a piece ofnecessity as well, because, like
, there are like moreresponsibilities that I have to
take on and and just likeGetting into that habit over the
course of like Coming into lawschool.
You know it also set my mind ina, in a, in a place where, you
know, right, you're coming fromcollege, where, like, especially
around graduation, everyone'shaving a good time and partying

(42:05):
and so on and so forth.
To now, like it's very real,like I've got bills, I'm in the
real world and you know I'mpreparing for Law school, which
is going to be the biggestchallenge, you know, of my life
from a I don't know profession,from a career standpoint, in
terms of, um, you know,preparing for that, that sort of
education.
So, um, I'm still sometimes I'mstill like shocked at like the,

(42:31):
the discipline that I was Ableto kind of fall into when I
started law school because itwas, like you know, wake up at
seven, um, go to class.
Class starts at nine.
I'd have class in the morning,I'd study a little bit and eat
lunch class in the afternoon.
I'd get home around like fourand I'd go straight to the
library and from like 4 30 tillnine when the library closed, I

(42:54):
was at the library.
When the library closed I camehome I'd watch an hour of martin
and go to bed and like that was.
That was my schedule every daythroughout the week and I'm like
I still can't get on a schedulelike that you know?
no, I know um, you know, but um,you know.
So I think that that the habitportion of it was just like you

(43:14):
know, as I, I took thatmentality of there's something
else coming.
I have to just, whatever I'mdealing with, I have to put my
best foot forward to kind ofdeal with whatever is coming and
also having faith.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
I will say that in and of itself is really
incredible, because what I'mhearing from you is like there
were all these things thathappened stemming from, well,
your mom passing away and thenhaving to make all.
It was just like you werenaturally sort of transitioning
into this law school, makingadult decisions, those kinds of

(43:52):
things, but taking onresponsibilities as the result
of the passing of your mom.
But your mentality around allof that is, like you said, all
right, I'm just like you'remaking this conscious decision
to put your best foot forward,right, like you're like, yes,
this is the next play.
And also you didn't have tohave a positive or optimistic

(44:15):
mindset and you did, and that isremarkable.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
Yeah, I mean yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
I think a big part of my lifeand all the decisions that I've
made, especially deciding to goout and start my own business, a
lot of it is faith, and I don'tnecessarily mean faith from a
religious standpoint, but beingable to have the faith in
yourself that you'll figure itout.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
Like, no matter what.

Speaker 3 (44:41):
The next step looks like being able to know that,
whatever that challenge is, I'llbe able to find a solution to
it, and I have confidence inthat.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
Even if that solution doesn't necessarily feel good
or feel pleasurable right.
It's like trusting, almost liketrusting the process Exactly.
That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
I really believe that that level of personal faith,
personal trust, is a faith thatcan only come from someone who's
been loved.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
And yeah, oh, that's so beautiful, but a lot of the
time I try.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
I really I think sometimes people feel stuck to
like learn to love yourself,like an ideal parent would love
you, and you seem to have beenblessed with actual parents who
just gave it to you, which isuncommon to what to?
another thing I wanted to touchon with the conversation regards
to responsibility.

(45:33):
Is you just?
It was like a lightning bolt,reminding me of something that
Victor Frankel wrote in his bookman Search for Meaning, where
he said if we have the statue ofliberty on the East coast, we
also need a statue ofresponsibility on the West coast
.
Because liberty withoutresponsibility, like essentially
it descends into hedonism.
You know you can do whateveryou want, to do whatever you
want and like that's true, butyou actually hold on to the most

(45:56):
independence and the mostliberty when you are responsible
and to be free to choose thatown responsibility.
And so I know we've spokenabout your career and we touched
on you married my friendElizabeth, and that's taking on
another level of responsibility,and then it's even more
responsibility to have a child.

(46:16):
So it does not.
You know we're speaking about alot of our friends who we love
dearly.
They haven't taken those stepsto add even more and more
responsibility into their lives.
And so not only did you take onthe responsibility to help
manage whatever estate affairsafter your mother's passing, the
responsibility of caring foryourself in law school, what
made you keep going to take onthe responsibility of getting

(46:37):
married and then having a kid?

Speaker 3 (46:39):
I mean, I think that's something that I always
wanted you know.
So I think yeah.
I've just always looked forwardto being a dad, and I credit
that to my own father.
You know you, and when you talkabout love, like I was, I felt
the love very much.
You know, like I said earlier,like I felt, I always felt very
supported.
You know my dad in particular,I think.

(47:00):
You know, I think, as menespecially like sometimes we
kind of struggle with like howdo we show love?
I think, in particular you knowwith, with the, you know with
the people who are around us,like our brothers, our friends,
our you know sons and fathers,and you know how do we sort of
express that sort of thing.
My dad always made it a pointto tell me that he loved me.

(47:23):
And that's something that I'veI've carried with me as a father
, you know, and for him, youknow, he said you know, my dad
never told me that he loved meand he's like I know that he did
, but he never said it and helost his father.
You know, my grandfatheractually, you know, died.
He was actually murdered youknow, so oh my goodness.

(47:43):
And so you know, I think thatlike that, that sort of like
experience too, of, like youknow, thinking that you're going
to have your dad for likelonger, and then you know he's
taken away from you and like I'dnever heard him say those words
, you know, to me that meantsomething and it's like you know
again it's something.
It's like he's set that energyinto motion to wear it.

(48:05):
Now it's like trickled down tohis grandson, you know, getting
that same sort of love.
And so you know, I think again,like I always wanted, that I
don't even really look at it.
It is a responsibility and Ilook at it that way, especially
now having one because it's.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
It's two totally different things to say like I
want children and like to like,actually like I used to say.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
I used to say I wanted to have a basketball team
.
And then you know, I remember,you know, having our first, and
my mother-in-law was like so doyou still want that basketball?

Speaker 2 (48:35):
team.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
I was like let's take it one at a time, oh my God,
what am I going to say?

Speaker 1 (48:41):
Like one V one, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (48:43):
Exactly, take it one on one for now, but it's yeah I
know it's hard to look at aresponsibility because it's
enjoyable but I think liketaking on responsibility as a
choice and embracing it.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
There is a joy to being able to be responsible for
other things.

Speaker 3 (48:57):
Yeah, there is, and I you know it's.
You got to be a lot, a lot moreselfless.
I think that was one of thethings that I definitely worried
a lot about, you know, prior toour son being born, was like am
I going to be able to be asselfless as I need to be, you
know, as selfless as I remembermy parents being, in order to,
you know, make sure that my son,you know, has everything that

(49:20):
he needs from an emotionalstandpoint.
You know, and it's neverperfect, you know it's not
something that you're like goodat just cause you like want to
be good at it, or just cause youhave like some talents, like
anything else, like you have towork at being a good parent.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
And it's a journey, it's learning on the job kind of
experience.
It just is I, you know, I thinkthat it's a big lesson that you
can only really learn as you'redoing it.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
I think if you can convey how hard it is to become
a parent to someone first ofit's impossible.

Speaker 3 (49:55):
Second, if you could, do it.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
I don't think anyone like it's, so it brings me so
much joy.
I love my son so much and Ieven yeah, just like the
transition of being a couple,being a family, is.
It's such a beautifultransition, but it's like it is
directly I guess, indirectlyproportional to how hard it is.

Speaker 3 (50:17):
You know it's so hard and it's the best thing in the
world, and they just completelywrapped up one and the other and
you're like that six monthbeard where, like I remember
that being for me, that was themost difficult period because
all of the things, all thethings that I've always looked
forward to as a father, werelike, the things that, like I
remember and enjoyed about youknow my childhood and spending

(50:38):
time with my dad.
So it was like going out backand playing sports and, you know
, watching TV together and youknow playing with toys on the
floor and so like when yourchild is like, when that's what
you're looking forward to, andthen you know your child is like
you lay them on their stomachand they can't hold their head
up Like it's, like, okay, it'slike I got a little ways to go
before we get there, and there'sa lot of, you know, it's a lot

(51:03):
of just like.
so like, for example, our sonwouldn't?
He had like this really badreflex where, like if you laid
him down like when he wassleeping.
He would like I forget what thereflex is called, I think it's
normal but he would like jerkhis hands forward.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
And wake him yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
And he'd wake himself up and so that like like little
things like that, that like younever really know, but like it
was so challenging for mebecause it's like having the
like, the patience, and liketeaching yourself or even you
know, like when he's throwing atemper tantrum, to remember in
you know, in my head, like I'vegot to maintain my cool and my

(51:44):
calm and my collectedness inorder to eventually get him to
calm down.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
And so, like you know , it's just but you couldn't
have known that while Elizabethwas pregnant or while you were
dreaming of being a, dad for,like a basketball team, you can
only know the like minutia thatcomes with being a dad or mom
when it's happening.
Like when you're in it and it'sa good time.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
It's a really good time and it's like the, I think
you know on the flip side ofthat, like the experiences that
you get, like you can't, youcan't get them anywhere else.
Like, even as much as I lookforward to being a parent, I
never imagined that it would beas amazing as it is, like even
just seeing the little things ofyou know where it seems like

(52:34):
from week to week, like oh wow,you weren't saying that last
week or you weren't doing thatlast week.
Or like you know, he's likeobsessed with watching Monsters
Inc and now he's at the pointwhere he's starting to like act
out some of the scenes and it'slike wow you know, on one side
it's like are we watching thismovie too much?

Speaker 2 (52:52):
And on the other, it's like, it's like that's just
really cool to watch you dothat, you know.
So I'm so grateful that youjoined us on the podcast and I
just my biggest takeaway fromthe time we just spent together
is you are a complete testamentto what it means to be loved and
be a conduit for love.
Thank you, that's all it is.
Thank you, yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
It's so beautiful I just wanna cry yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
And so thank you so much for being you and
continuing to share the lovethat's been given to you, to
both your family, to me, to yourfriends, all of your clients
too.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
Like I just think, I think, when you are doing what
you're doing, just operating inthe world, and you're doing that
from a place of love, likeJacob's saying, like your
clients are in really good hands, you know, yeah, they're lucky
to have you.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
I appreciate that and I hope I'm really.
I love the way you put thatbecause I do.
I feel like that's the way Itry to live my life is by
sharing the love that I've beengiven with other people,
regardless of what that lookslike.
Yeah, I'm not running aroundtelling everyone that I love
them.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
No, it's this.

Speaker 3 (53:59):
Sometimes there's an urge to wanna do things like,
but just showing it in the waythat I try to care for people.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
So I mean I appreciate that it's the love
embedded within respect.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
So for those people who would like to be loved up by
their attorney, how can theyget in touch with you?

Speaker 3 (54:19):
So you can get in touch with me over the phone at
215-999-7790.
But for those of you who wouldjust like to, kind of you know,
stay in touch from afar, you canfollow me on Instagram at
mzalegal.
I'm also on LinkedIn,mzanejohnson, you know, when I'm

(54:41):
just, I'm around, so definitely.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
Do you have a?

Speaker 3 (54:44):
website.
I do have a website.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
It's mzalegal, Thank you for got the website and
we'll put all of those in theshow notes.
Yeah, yeah, because people aregonna wanna find you for sure.
So we wanna thank you so muchfor having this amazing
conversation with us.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
It's really our pleasure and our privilege.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Yeah, definitely Thank you.
Anytime you're in Philly, comeon by.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
For reals Okay.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
We wanna thank you so much for listening to today's
episode.
If anything in today's episodespoke to you, please like
subscribe, rate and review.
Also, don't forget to sharethis podcast with friends and
family.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
And if there's anybody that you know that you
think would be a great guest onintuitive choices, please email
us at intuitivechoicespodcast atgmailcom.
Finally, if you wanna know moreabout our mental health
practice, intuitive counselingand wellness, please check us
out atintuitivecounselingofphillycom.