December 15, 2024 • 20 mins
Haunting the lakes and streams of the Celtic isles is a malevolent shape shifting spirit : the Kelpie. Join Chris and Spence as they unlock the myths and legends which surround this fantastic beast, and maybe you'll be able to find them!
The Irish Gothic Podcast explores the origins of Irish Folk tales. myths and legends in all their dark, fantastical glory and how these vivid yarns continue to resonate across the world to this very day.
Join Hosts Chris Patterson and Spence Wright as they fuse their love for all thing's horror with a wellspring of Irish lore.
From the terrifying figure of the Dullahan to the origins of Halloween itself, if it’s a yarn you’re after, pull up a chair and let ‘Irish Gothic’ fill your ears.
Hosts: Chris Patterson & Spence Wright
Producer: Rebecca Alcorn
Production Company: Causeway Pictures
Bibliography:
Learn more about the legend of the Kelpie here ! https://www.scotclans.com/pages/the-kelpie-s-last-battle-by-lari-don
https://mandybaker86.medium.com/the-legend-of-the-kelpie-981f61e4792d
Rabbie Burns - Address to the Deil
https://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/robertburns/works/address_to_the_deil/
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Instagram: @irishgothicpod
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Website: https://irishgothicpod.buzzsprout.com
Show your support for the podcast at: buymeacoffee.com/irishgothicpod
Checkout our other podcast - Hostage to the Devil, real life stories of exorcism and possession. Wherever you get your podcasts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:17):
I know all the folks round thesearts and parts.
Can't say I know you.
Leastways.
Not yet.
But I dare say I know whatyou'll be wanting.
Some of the crack, maybe.
How we yarn with your sup, isit?
(00:39):
No harm in that.
Come on over.
Warm yourself, hmm?
I'll warn you though.
If it's the old Begara andBlarney shenanigans you're
after, you'll not hear them fromme.
Well, if such, like, pleasesyou, you sit on.
I'll fill your ears.
(01:01):
And see what story is meant foryou.
On this dark old night.
chris-patterson_2_10-23-202 (01:22):
I'm Chris
spencey-guest437_2_10-23-20 (01:23):
I'm Spence
chris-patterson_2_10-23-202 (01:24):
And this is the Irish Gothic
Podcast.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (01:35):
How you doing, Spence?
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (01:36):
I'm good, Chris.
How have you been, sir?
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (01:38):
I've been doing alright as we record
is the first week of December.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (01:42):
Yes, I must start with a confession,
Chris.
At the end of our last episode,I said I would climb Slemish.
You know the mountain that looksa wee bit like the mountain from
Close Encounters
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (01:52):
how are your
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (01:53):
Well, in my defense, Christopher, you
know, the Weller has been very,very bad.
We've had storms, storms withactual names attached to them,
so I chickened out.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (02:00):
Was that storm called Lazy Bugger?
spence_1_12-04-2024_1907 (02:02):
storm, lazy bugger head So I didn't get
the mish onto that old cousinEncounters mountain, but it
definitely will.
So the New Year's resolution,that's the promise.
chris-patterson_1_12-0 (02:11):
speaking of close encounters, did you see
in the news this week that theywere expecting an alien
invasion?
spence_1_12-04-2024_190 (02:17):
Didn't, who's there?
What do you mean?
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2 (02:18):
Well, generally some guy said he
predicted that there was goingto be an alien invasion.
But of course, it might be nextweek now because it didn't come
this week.
But oddly enough, there was aUFO at Manchester airport.
spence_1_12-04-2024_1907 (02:30):
Right.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2024 (02:31):
It was spotted by everybody.
That's sort of metal ball downfrom on high and just hovered
about six or seven feet off therunway.
spence_1_12-04-2024_1 (02:41):
Goodness, I've got to Google that.
hear the paper about
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (02:44):
no, they don't call them UFOs
anymore, Spence,
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (02:47):
Oh, why not?
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (02:47):
the Americans have had hearings in
Congress and they've decided tocall them UAPs.
They are UnidentifiedUnidentified aerial phenomena
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (02:56):
Ah, well.
chris-patterson_1_12-04 (02:57):
instead of UFOs because apparently the
term UFOs comes with a lot ofconnotations comes with a lot of
baggage so they thought they'dput that out the window in one
of these congress meetings theyactually said that there was
UFOs and they're not from abovethey're from below so apparently
in some of the deepest trenchesin the sea That's where they
(03:19):
are.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (03:19):
oh, oh.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (03:20):
no, I haven't seen any.
the fact that, the governmentinvestigation team can announce
that there is UFOs and nobodyreally cares, shows the way the
world is right
spence_1_12-04-2024_1907 (03:29):
That's phenomenal, man.
In the sea, you say, yeah?
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2024 (03:32):
in a sea, apparently they know
where they
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (03:34):
So you think now, man, with all the
technology, It's gotta be theage where we'll know.
Do you know what I mean, man?
Like, the way we can capture somuch footage and, Infrared and,
deep sea scanners, I don't know.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (03:46):
See, you'd think so but every time I
see a picture that somebody'staken from an iPhone, it's
bloody blurry,
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (03:51):
yeah, it's also part of the tech.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2024_ (03:54):
I mean, there was a thing earlier
this week were they say they'redrones, but apparently like 10,
15, 20 lights were over Americanbases in the UK one of the
American bases, and I can'tremember the name of it, it was
working with nuclear weapons atthat point,
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (04:11):
Oh,
chris-patterson_1_12- (04:11):
deploying nuclear weapons to RAF Larkin
Heath,
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (04:15):
okay.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (04:16):
them off the plane when all these
lights turned on,
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (04:18):
No way.
and they're not thinking spies,you know, foreign actors.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (04:23):
you see, they are thinking that
there could be drones and allthat, but, to be honest, I think
that the aliens could land onthe White House lawn and, you
know, You know, or they wouldn'tbelieve it.
But, talking about things beingunder the sea, let's just say
it's the Kelpie Spence.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (05:04):
The Kilpie.
Nicely done there, Chris.
Nicely done.
I thought your ramblings werejust ramblings.
That's beautiful.
so yeah, the Kilpie,, a quickoverview.
Very, very, big deal in Irishand Scottish folklore as well,
actually.
But, it's known as a fierceshapeshifting.
Water Sprite, Water Demon, Iguess.
And it's known to hunt streamsand lakes, preying on the
(05:26):
unsuspecting, the unwary.
They say it has a kind ofdevious, dangerous nature, so it
was often accused and blamed ofeven wee small misdemeanors
like, breaking and busting upmill wheels, you know, water
wheels, or causing streams toswell, and banks to burst, and
cattle to, to die.
to, not birth or horses not tofoal and, things like that all
(05:48):
the way up to actuallycommitting really quite ghastly
murders.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2024_ (05:52):
I mean, I get this shapeshifting
entity.
Well, there's a number of formsit takes.
I mean, a magnificent, beautifulwhite horse.
And I think it was, it was oneof the Harry Potter films or
maybe the spinoffs.
That he actually had a Kelpie inhis cellar he rode this Kelpie
around.
Um, it wasn't Harry Potter.
rebecca_1_12-04-2024_ (06:11):
Fantastic beasts and where to find them,
sorry.
chris-patterson_1_12-04- (06:14):
that's perfect.
that's perfect.
Fantastic beasts and where tofind them.
That was our, uh, producercoming in There
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (06:20):
Was not the voice of the Mysterons
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (06:22):
that was the voice of God.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190 (06:24):
Keeping us right.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (06:25):
But certainly fantastic beasts and
where to ride them where he hada Kelpie in that sort of Tardis
like case that he could getinto.
A beautiful white horse.
I think I read somewhere Spencewhere they are beautiful women
as
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (06:39):
Yep.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (06:40):
that can attract or a beautiful
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (06:42):
Yeah occasionally women's mostly, I
think, a horse and a male form,and as you rightly say, in
either of those forms, it wouldentice travelers or people by
the watersides to, to ride thehorse or come closer to the man,
and then they would dash intothe water and drown them.
chris-patterson_1_12-04 (06:57):
Usually you find the main sign is this
horse is by, a river or a lakeand it's actually a kelp and
it's main is soaking wet becauseobviously it's come out of the
water.
So you have to be on the lookoutfor a basically dripping wet
horse
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (07:12):
Ha, Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (07:16):
and the problem is these days that
people do a lot of swimming.
So, you know,
spence_1_12-04-2024_19 (07:21):
Exactly.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (07:21):
you know, you can't believe your own
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (07:23):
Well, I did read something in the news
actually this week about thewater quality around the shores
of some of the places in thenorth of Ireland.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (07:29):
You wouldn't want to, you wouldn't
want to be swimming.
You come out with
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (07:31):
I think I'd rather take a chance
with a kelpie, but, youmentioned there about how, that
spotting the kelpie when it's inits horse form, being that
dripping wet mane, and thelegend goes as well that when it
does take the form of thehandsome man, if you're careful
enough and you're watchfulenough, you'll notice that it's
His feet are actually backwardfacing hooves,
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (07:49):
Like the devil.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (08:05):
Yeah that plays into connections with
the devil.
And this man has got aparticularly twisted and dark
intent towards women, and wouldlure them into the water, drown
them, and devour them in hisunderwater lair.
But you're quite right, becauseI think that's where the devil
connotations start coming in.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2 (08:22):
Well, you see the kelpie is one of
these strange creatures gotCeltic lore behind it, not just
Irish lore.
So there are versions of it inScotland and there are versions
of it in different parts of theCeltic triangle of France,
Cornwall, Wales.
But It's definitely prevalent inScotland and one of the reasons
it was mixed in with the devilwas because of a, work by Robbie
(08:45):
Burns and it was called Addressto the Devil, which was 1789 and
I'm going to give it a So,
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (08:55):
Oh, good.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (08:56):
any sort of, you know, it's sounding
so I'm going to give it a gohere.
When throes devolve the sunnyhorde and float and jingle icy
board.
Then water kelpies hunt theford, and night travellers are
allured to their destruction.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (09:15):
Oh, that's wonderful.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (09:17):
know Robscene is, but, but,
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (09:19):
ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Well, with Christmas just aroundthe corner and Auld Lang Syne
when you could get a, you couldget a roll there.
Doing a bit of Robbie Burnsnight speaking.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (09:27):
That was my Ewan McGregor coming out
there.
My Obi, my Obi Wan.
spence_1_12-04-2024_1 (09:48):
Brilliant that ties in.
That poem is an address to thedevil, and there the Kelpie is
in it.
And as you rightly say, theKelpie is very popular here in
Ireland.
It's popular very much so inScotland.
It's probably the biggest inevery respect.
Counterpart of the Kelpie,people would say that the Loch
(10:08):
Ness Monster, Nessie, isactually a variant of a Kelpie I
know you've talked about theMedusa and the Gorgon in other
episodes, Chris, so I think inAberdeenshire, their version is
a horse, but its main is allserpents it's fearsome stuff.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2024_ (10:21):
I find that, when you talk about,
I guess it's any lake in theworld you've got the American
Great Lakes and you've got,obviously the lakes like, Loch
Ness and all the rest of it.
They all have a monster or afolklore behind them.
And you may agree with me inthis, Spencer, it's sort of a
warning, legend, you know, inLough Neagh, that means you
(10:45):
don't want to go swimming inLough Neagh, so really does that
mean that these stories are tokeep maybe children away from
being drowned or people out ofharm's way?
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (10:56):
I think so, Chris, again, it's
familiar themes that we see inthese episodes.
I think it's very much abouttrying to warn children and and
the dangers of being near thewater it's also about trying
probably to make sense of theenvironment because we mentioned
earlier there that the Kelpiecan be blamed for, rivers
(11:18):
flooding and damming and watermills breaking so again it's
making sense of things that aregoing on in nature but I think
absolutely it's a cautionarytale.
About Staying away from thewater, staying away from danger.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2024_ (11:32):
I think with the cautionary tale,
Spence, there's an often toldyarn about a group of children,
isn't there?
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (11:38):
Yeah, aye, there's variations of this,
the detail changes slightly, butin essence the story quite often
told is there's usually a groupof children and they encounter
the Kelpie, be it by a lake.
And the Kelpie appears in itshorse form on some lonely
waterside.
And all the children areentranced and they climb onto
the creature's back.
(11:59):
And there's usually one childwho's a wee bit hesitant.
I suppose in a modern horrorfilm that would be the
protagonist.
You know, that would be theperson whose sixth sense is
tingling and this isn't quiteright.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (12:09):
not go into the house.
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (12:10):
Yeah, the one who says don't split up.
And it's usually a boy, forwhatever reason, but usually
this little boy then doessuccumb and begins to pet the
horse, at which point his handgets stuck to the horse, which
is the Kelby's stick, that's howit works.
And then they all get draggedin, stuck on this horse, into
the water.
But to come back to what youwere mentioning there, Chris,
about, The connection to thedevil, and therefore the
(12:33):
connection to Christianity.
Quite often, how that wee boysurvives, there's one of two
ways.
One version, he will have apenknife, and he will literally
sever his hands and fingers torelease himself from the horse.
And in the other version, it'sbecause he has a Bible in his
pocket.
And he touches the Bible.
So, again, you see those worldsclashing.
(12:53):
So the boy makes it back toshore, and the entrails of his
friends are washed on the bloodyshoreline,
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (12:59):
that is is some, scene that, the
entrails all see.
But also I did during thisresearch look at it's like a
form of exorcism that comes intothis Removing the Kelpie's
bridle could be seen as a formof exorcism, and the Kelpie
bridle was believed to possessthe magical properties that were
capable of transforming someoneinto a horse or a pony.
(13:22):
Now, why you'd want to betransformed into a horse or a
pony, I don't know.
But those legends especially inAmerica of the skinwalkers and
people like that, it's comesacross that if you want to steal
this bridal, you could turnyourself into a horse or a pony
for A particular reason,
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (13:41):
Yeah, or maybe turn your enemies into
one, you know?
It gives people that power it's,again, it's those magical
weapons and magical properties.
For instance, they said it'ssilver bullets, which we would
always associate werewolves.
Iron spears, heated and red hotfires.
These are all said to kill akelpie.
And when you do kill a Kelpie,it's reduced to turf and a soft
(14:02):
mass like jellyfish.
So again, we're seeing that fearof the unknown.
And how those folks were tryingto combat it in those days, be
it via the belief that the Biblewill save you, exorcism via
removing the bridle, or byarming yourselves with magic
weapons.
So yes, there's fear, yes,there's terror, yes, there's
unknown, but there's always asolution.
There's always a way to protectyourself against it in all these
(14:24):
stories, which I find sofascinating.
chris-patterson_1_12-04- (14:54):
Kelpie is one of our most, I would say
simple, legends that we'vecovered because it pretty much
has it's rules don't go near thewater but like jaws, was the
Kelpie used to scare, unrulychildren away from dangerous
waterways?
Back in the late 70s, I thinkthere was some videos with
Donald Pleasence shrouded inmist as the Grim Reaper.
spence_1_12-04-2024_1907 (15:14):
That's right, they were those public
broadcasting ads, Chris, theywere terrifying.
I remember, I don't know whatage I was when I saw them, there
were different versions of them,you know.
But they were creepy.
And you're talking about DonaldPleasance as the Grim Reaper by
the river?
He was the spirit of the darkand lonely water.
And, I can't remember exactlythe line, but if you can imagine
folks that, creepy dumbunpleasant voice, and he's just
(15:37):
this grim reaper figure standingin the mist by a riverside while
these kids are playing, and hedelivers these great lines to
camera, and he's describing thechildren as foolish, they're
unwary, they're overconfident,and, when you put it like that,
Chris Is that a modernoutworking of what the Kelpie
Tale was?
Stay away from the water?
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2 (15:54):
think it could be, you know, when
people are sitting around a fireand they're telling stories,
they're going to not just saydon't go down by the water there
or, there's riptides that.
It's easier to say there'ssomething bad in that water.
And if
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (16:08):
Yeah.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (16:09):
it, it's going to drag you in and
you're going to die and likemost of the stuff that we do,
just talking about DonaldPleasant, sir, you might want to
tell people, I know that I hateto say this because I try not to
believe it, but there might besome people out there that don't
know who Donald Press was.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (16:25):
Oh, goodness, yeah, I sort of think
that those people would walkamongst us, wouldn't they?
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2 (16:29):
they?
spence_1_12-04-2024_1907 (16:29):
Surely not.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2024 (16:30):
so I suppose you better give them a
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (16:31):
Okay, well, English actor most famous
role Dr.
Loomis in the Halloweenfranchise.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (16:36):
He's done a lot, but in the original
John Carpenter Halloween, he wasthe doctor.
So, if you haven't seen theoriginal John Carpenter
Halloween, just Turn off yourpodcast right now.
Um,
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (16:48):
Well, he was a Bond baddie, wasn't he?
Which one was
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2024 (16:52):
he was, a Bond baddie but I can't
remember which Bond it was.
Was it a Roger Moore?
He was upstroke the cat and allthe rest of it.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (16:58):
The Austin Powers kind of rip off,
isn't it?
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2 (17:01):
yeah.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (17:01):
His voice delivering those lines is
very, very effective onchildren, you know, and, again,
Christy as well as warningpeople to stay away from the
water, it's also a warning towomen or Irish maidens of the
time to be wary of strangers andstrange men and stranger danger.
And I think a lot of thewerewolf myths that had their
origins, exactly what you justsaid.
(17:22):
It was an easy way for people inEurope to warn their children
about the risks of murder andbeing abducted.
There
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (17:28):
Yes, don't go, don't go off into the
forest because
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (17:31):
Yeah.
chris-patterson_1_12-04- (17:31):
forget you or,
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (17:32):
The world will forget you, yeah.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (17:34):
and I know, Europe had a massive
belief in vampires and, we werehaving a chat today, Spence,
about some of the stuff we mightdo, in the coming episodes about
some of the original Irishvampire
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (17:45):
yeah.
yeah.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (17:46):
I'm looking forward to doing some of
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (17:47):
Some great stuff to come.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (17:49):
but the Kelpie is most definitely
one of the most interesting andthe fact that, it's not just
Ireland, it's Scotland.
And we sort of have to say thatout loud because our Scottish
listeners might not be too happyif we just claimed it fully, but
I like to think of it as aCeltic, legend that sort of
pulls us together in thatbrotherhood.
But it also tells us, don'ttrust, don't trust.
(18:12):
a soaking wet woman by a lake.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (18:15):
Or a man with hooves for feet.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2 (18:18):
Yeah, I mean, it might be a giveaway,
but hey, could be Halloween.
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (18:21):
Well, I don't know about you, but as
much as I'm enjoying this, I'mvery, very tempted to go have a
look at the night skies, afterwhat you told me at the start of
this.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2 (18:29):
Well, you know it's, it's, if they
were going to invade or I don'tthink it would matter.
I think people are just like,yeah, go away.
I think, you know, people arelike, yes, I'm here.
And then they're like, I
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (18:37):
Yeah, Yeah, next.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2024 (18:39):
so that's the Kelpie.
There's not much more to sayabout it.
If you do happen to come acrossa soaking wet horse, you've been
warned.
I think that's it Spence.
What do you
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (18:49):
I think so, or, trusty producer
Rebecca will put stuff in theshow notes for you folks, some
more information, some greatimagery, and, as ever, thanks
for listening.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (18:57):
Next week is a special.
Next week you will be hearingour Christmas episode and we
have got a humbinger for you.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (19:07):
ho, ho, ho.
Bye, folks.
Looks like your story has foundyou.
I wish It were another.
But what's meant for you, won'tgo by you.
(19:29):
I'm sorry.
Ach, now.
No need to look so scared, eh?
Enjoy the fire.
Have a sop.
Sure.
Is it all just Irish Gothic?
All just Irish Gothic.
chris-patterson_10_10-17-20 (19:56):
You can find us at iris gothic pod
on Instagram or X, or if youwant to support us, please buy
us a coffee
spence_9_10-17-2024_205215 (20:04):
and look, while you're there, give
us a follow to keep up with allthings in the Irish Gothic
Podcast.
Send us any Irish myths,legends, stories that you'd like
us to delve into next.
chris-patterson_10_10-23-20 (20:14):
The Irish Gothic Podcast was brought
to you by Causeway Pictures.
It's hosted by Chris Pattersonand Spence Wright.
And was produced by RebeccaAlcorn.
All rights reserved.
chris-patterson_10_10-17- (20:28):
Check out our other podcast, Hostage
to the Devil, which delves intothe dark world of possession and
exorcism.
You can get it wherever you getyour podcasts.
I know all the folks round thesearts and parts.
Can't say I know you.
Leastways.
Not yet.
But I dare say I know whatyou'll be wanting.
Some of the crack, maybe.
How we yarn with your sup, isit?
(00:39):
No harm in that.
Come on over.
Warm yourself, hmm?
I'll warn you though.
If it's the old Begara andBlarney shenanigans you're
after, you'll not hear them fromme.
Well, if such, like, pleasesyou, you sit on.
I'll fill your ears.
(01:01):
And see what story is meant foryou.
On this dark old night.
chris-patterson_2_10-23-202 (01:22):
I'm Chris
spencey-guest437_2_10-23-20 (01:23):
I'm Spence
chris-patterson_2_10-23-202 (01:24):
And this is the Irish Gothic
Podcast.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (01:35):
How you doing, Spence?
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (01:36):
I'm good, Chris.
How have you been, sir?
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (01:38):
I've been doing alright as we record
is the first week of December.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (01:42):
Yes, I must start with a confession,
Chris.
At the end of our last episode,I said I would climb Slemish.
You know the mountain that looksa wee bit like the mountain from
Close Encounters
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (01:52):
how are your
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (01:53):
Well, in my defense, Christopher, you
know, the Weller has been very,very bad.
We've had storms, storms withactual names attached to them,
so I chickened out.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (02:00):
Was that storm called Lazy Bugger?
spence_1_12-04-2024_1907 (02:02):
storm, lazy bugger head So I didn't get
the mish onto that old cousinEncounters mountain, but it
definitely will.
So the New Year's resolution,that's the promise.
chris-patterson_1_12-0 (02:11):
speaking of close encounters, did you see
in the news this week that theywere expecting an alien
invasion?
spence_1_12-04-2024_190 (02:17):
Didn't, who's there?
What do you mean?
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2 (02:18):
Well, generally some guy said he
predicted that there was goingto be an alien invasion.
But of course, it might be nextweek now because it didn't come
this week.
But oddly enough, there was aUFO at Manchester airport.
spence_1_12-04-2024_1907 (02:30):
Right.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2024 (02:31):
It was spotted by everybody.
That's sort of metal ball downfrom on high and just hovered
about six or seven feet off therunway.
spence_1_12-04-2024_1 (02:41):
Goodness, I've got to Google that.
hear the paper about
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (02:44):
no, they don't call them UFOs
anymore, Spence,
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (02:47):
Oh, why not?
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (02:47):
the Americans have had hearings in
Congress and they've decided tocall them UAPs.
They are UnidentifiedUnidentified aerial phenomena
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (02:56):
Ah, well.
chris-patterson_1_12-04 (02:57):
instead of UFOs because apparently the
term UFOs comes with a lot ofconnotations comes with a lot of
baggage so they thought they'dput that out the window in one
of these congress meetings theyactually said that there was
UFOs and they're not from abovethey're from below so apparently
in some of the deepest trenchesin the sea That's where they
(03:19):
are.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (03:19):
oh, oh.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (03:20):
no, I haven't seen any.
the fact that, the governmentinvestigation team can announce
that there is UFOs and nobodyreally cares, shows the way the
world is right
spence_1_12-04-2024_1907 (03:29):
That's phenomenal, man.
In the sea, you say, yeah?
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2024 (03:32):
in a sea, apparently they know
where they
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (03:34):
So you think now, man, with all the
technology, It's gotta be theage where we'll know.
Do you know what I mean, man?
Like, the way we can capture somuch footage and, Infrared and,
deep sea scanners, I don't know.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (03:46):
See, you'd think so but every time I
see a picture that somebody'staken from an iPhone, it's
bloody blurry,
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (03:51):
yeah, it's also part of the tech.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2024_ (03:54):
I mean, there was a thing earlier
this week were they say they'redrones, but apparently like 10,
15, 20 lights were over Americanbases in the UK one of the
American bases, and I can'tremember the name of it, it was
working with nuclear weapons atthat point,
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (04:11):
Oh,
chris-patterson_1_12- (04:11):
deploying nuclear weapons to RAF Larkin
Heath,
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (04:15):
okay.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (04:16):
them off the plane when all these
lights turned on,
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (04:18):
No way.
and they're not thinking spies,you know, foreign actors.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (04:23):
you see, they are thinking that
there could be drones and allthat, but, to be honest, I think
that the aliens could land onthe White House lawn and, you
know, You know, or they wouldn'tbelieve it.
But, talking about things beingunder the sea, let's just say
it's the Kelpie Spence.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (05:04):
The Kilpie.
Nicely done there, Chris.
Nicely done.
I thought your ramblings werejust ramblings.
That's beautiful.
so yeah, the Kilpie,, a quickoverview.
Very, very, big deal in Irishand Scottish folklore as well,
actually.
But, it's known as a fierceshapeshifting.
Water Sprite, Water Demon, Iguess.
And it's known to hunt streamsand lakes, preying on the
(05:26):
unsuspecting, the unwary.
They say it has a kind ofdevious, dangerous nature, so it
was often accused and blamed ofeven wee small misdemeanors
like, breaking and busting upmill wheels, you know, water
wheels, or causing streams toswell, and banks to burst, and
cattle to, to die.
to, not birth or horses not tofoal and, things like that all
(05:48):
the way up to actuallycommitting really quite ghastly
murders.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2024_ (05:52):
I mean, I get this shapeshifting
entity.
Well, there's a number of formsit takes.
I mean, a magnificent, beautifulwhite horse.
And I think it was, it was oneof the Harry Potter films or
maybe the spinoffs.
That he actually had a Kelpie inhis cellar he rode this Kelpie
around.
Um, it wasn't Harry Potter.
rebecca_1_12-04-2024_ (06:11):
Fantastic beasts and where to find them,
sorry.
chris-patterson_1_12-04- (06:14):
that's perfect.
that's perfect.
Fantastic beasts and where tofind them.
That was our, uh, producercoming in There
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (06:20):
Was not the voice of the Mysterons
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (06:22):
that was the voice of God.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190 (06:24):
Keeping us right.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (06:25):
But certainly fantastic beasts and
where to ride them where he hada Kelpie in that sort of Tardis
like case that he could getinto.
A beautiful white horse.
I think I read somewhere Spencewhere they are beautiful women
as
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (06:39):
Yep.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (06:40):
that can attract or a beautiful
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (06:42):
Yeah occasionally women's mostly, I
think, a horse and a male form,and as you rightly say, in
either of those forms, it wouldentice travelers or people by
the watersides to, to ride thehorse or come closer to the man,
and then they would dash intothe water and drown them.
chris-patterson_1_12-04 (06:57):
Usually you find the main sign is this
horse is by, a river or a lakeand it's actually a kelp and
it's main is soaking wet becauseobviously it's come out of the
water.
So you have to be on the lookoutfor a basically dripping wet
horse
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (07:12):
Ha, Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (07:16):
and the problem is these days that
people do a lot of swimming.
So, you know,
spence_1_12-04-2024_19 (07:21):
Exactly.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (07:21):
you know, you can't believe your own
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (07:23):
Well, I did read something in the news
actually this week about thewater quality around the shores
of some of the places in thenorth of Ireland.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (07:29):
You wouldn't want to, you wouldn't
want to be swimming.
You come out with
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (07:31):
I think I'd rather take a chance
with a kelpie, but, youmentioned there about how, that
spotting the kelpie when it's inits horse form, being that
dripping wet mane, and thelegend goes as well that when it
does take the form of thehandsome man, if you're careful
enough and you're watchfulenough, you'll notice that it's
His feet are actually backwardfacing hooves,
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (07:49):
Like the devil.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (08:05):
Yeah that plays into connections with
the devil.
And this man has got aparticularly twisted and dark
intent towards women, and wouldlure them into the water, drown
them, and devour them in hisunderwater lair.
But you're quite right, becauseI think that's where the devil
connotations start coming in.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2 (08:22):
Well, you see the kelpie is one of
these strange creatures gotCeltic lore behind it, not just
Irish lore.
So there are versions of it inScotland and there are versions
of it in different parts of theCeltic triangle of France,
Cornwall, Wales.
But It's definitely prevalent inScotland and one of the reasons
it was mixed in with the devilwas because of a, work by Robbie
(08:45):
Burns and it was called Addressto the Devil, which was 1789 and
I'm going to give it a So,
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (08:55):
Oh, good.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (08:56):
any sort of, you know, it's sounding
so I'm going to give it a gohere.
When throes devolve the sunnyhorde and float and jingle icy
board.
Then water kelpies hunt theford, and night travellers are
allured to their destruction.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (09:15):
Oh, that's wonderful.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (09:17):
know Robscene is, but, but,
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (09:19):
ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Well, with Christmas just aroundthe corner and Auld Lang Syne
when you could get a, you couldget a roll there.
Doing a bit of Robbie Burnsnight speaking.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (09:27):
That was my Ewan McGregor coming out
there.
My Obi, my Obi Wan.
spence_1_12-04-2024_1 (09:48):
Brilliant that ties in.
That poem is an address to thedevil, and there the Kelpie is
in it.
And as you rightly say, theKelpie is very popular here in
Ireland.
It's popular very much so inScotland.
It's probably the biggest inevery respect.
Counterpart of the Kelpie,people would say that the Loch
(10:08):
Ness Monster, Nessie, isactually a variant of a Kelpie I
know you've talked about theMedusa and the Gorgon in other
episodes, Chris, so I think inAberdeenshire, their version is
a horse, but its main is allserpents it's fearsome stuff.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2024_ (10:21):
I find that, when you talk about,
I guess it's any lake in theworld you've got the American
Great Lakes and you've got,obviously the lakes like, Loch
Ness and all the rest of it.
They all have a monster or afolklore behind them.
And you may agree with me inthis, Spencer, it's sort of a
warning, legend, you know, inLough Neagh, that means you
(10:45):
don't want to go swimming inLough Neagh, so really does that
mean that these stories are tokeep maybe children away from
being drowned or people out ofharm's way?
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (10:56):
I think so, Chris, again, it's
familiar themes that we see inthese episodes.
I think it's very much abouttrying to warn children and and
the dangers of being near thewater it's also about trying
probably to make sense of theenvironment because we mentioned
earlier there that the Kelpiecan be blamed for, rivers
(11:18):
flooding and damming and watermills breaking so again it's
making sense of things that aregoing on in nature but I think
absolutely it's a cautionarytale.
About Staying away from thewater, staying away from danger.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2024_ (11:32):
I think with the cautionary tale,
Spence, there's an often toldyarn about a group of children,
isn't there?
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (11:38):
Yeah, aye, there's variations of this,
the detail changes slightly, butin essence the story quite often
told is there's usually a groupof children and they encounter
the Kelpie, be it by a lake.
And the Kelpie appears in itshorse form on some lonely
waterside.
And all the children areentranced and they climb onto
the creature's back.
(11:59):
And there's usually one childwho's a wee bit hesitant.
I suppose in a modern horrorfilm that would be the
protagonist.
You know, that would be theperson whose sixth sense is
tingling and this isn't quiteright.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (12:09):
not go into the house.
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (12:10):
Yeah, the one who says don't split up.
And it's usually a boy, forwhatever reason, but usually
this little boy then doessuccumb and begins to pet the
horse, at which point his handgets stuck to the horse, which
is the Kelby's stick, that's howit works.
And then they all get draggedin, stuck on this horse, into
the water.
But to come back to what youwere mentioning there, Chris,
about, The connection to thedevil, and therefore the
(12:33):
connection to Christianity.
Quite often, how that wee boysurvives, there's one of two
ways.
One version, he will have apenknife, and he will literally
sever his hands and fingers torelease himself from the horse.
And in the other version, it'sbecause he has a Bible in his
pocket.
And he touches the Bible.
So, again, you see those worldsclashing.
(12:53):
So the boy makes it back toshore, and the entrails of his
friends are washed on the bloodyshoreline,
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (12:59):
that is is some, scene that, the
entrails all see.
But also I did during thisresearch look at it's like a
form of exorcism that comes intothis Removing the Kelpie's
bridle could be seen as a formof exorcism, and the Kelpie
bridle was believed to possessthe magical properties that were
capable of transforming someoneinto a horse or a pony.
(13:22):
Now, why you'd want to betransformed into a horse or a
pony, I don't know.
But those legends especially inAmerica of the skinwalkers and
people like that, it's comesacross that if you want to steal
this bridal, you could turnyourself into a horse or a pony
for A particular reason,
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (13:41):
Yeah, or maybe turn your enemies into
one, you know?
It gives people that power it's,again, it's those magical
weapons and magical properties.
For instance, they said it'ssilver bullets, which we would
always associate werewolves.
Iron spears, heated and red hotfires.
These are all said to kill akelpie.
And when you do kill a Kelpie,it's reduced to turf and a soft
(14:02):
mass like jellyfish.
So again, we're seeing that fearof the unknown.
And how those folks were tryingto combat it in those days, be
it via the belief that the Biblewill save you, exorcism via
removing the bridle, or byarming yourselves with magic
weapons.
So yes, there's fear, yes,there's terror, yes, there's
unknown, but there's always asolution.
There's always a way to protectyourself against it in all these
(14:24):
stories, which I find sofascinating.
chris-patterson_1_12-04- (14:54):
Kelpie is one of our most, I would say
simple, legends that we'vecovered because it pretty much
has it's rules don't go near thewater but like jaws, was the
Kelpie used to scare, unrulychildren away from dangerous
waterways?
Back in the late 70s, I thinkthere was some videos with
Donald Pleasence shrouded inmist as the Grim Reaper.
spence_1_12-04-2024_1907 (15:14):
That's right, they were those public
broadcasting ads, Chris, theywere terrifying.
I remember, I don't know whatage I was when I saw them, there
were different versions of them,you know.
But they were creepy.
And you're talking about DonaldPleasance as the Grim Reaper by
the river?
He was the spirit of the darkand lonely water.
And, I can't remember exactlythe line, but if you can imagine
folks that, creepy dumbunpleasant voice, and he's just
(15:37):
this grim reaper figure standingin the mist by a riverside while
these kids are playing, and hedelivers these great lines to
camera, and he's describing thechildren as foolish, they're
unwary, they're overconfident,and, when you put it like that,
Chris Is that a modernoutworking of what the Kelpie
Tale was?
Stay away from the water?
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2 (15:54):
think it could be, you know, when
people are sitting around a fireand they're telling stories,
they're going to not just saydon't go down by the water there
or, there's riptides that.
It's easier to say there'ssomething bad in that water.
And if
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (16:08):
Yeah.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (16:09):
it, it's going to drag you in and
you're going to die and likemost of the stuff that we do,
just talking about DonaldPleasant, sir, you might want to
tell people, I know that I hateto say this because I try not to
believe it, but there might besome people out there that don't
know who Donald Press was.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (16:25):
Oh, goodness, yeah, I sort of think
that those people would walkamongst us, wouldn't they?
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2 (16:29):
they?
spence_1_12-04-2024_1907 (16:29):
Surely not.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2024 (16:30):
so I suppose you better give them a
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (16:31):
Okay, well, English actor most famous
role Dr.
Loomis in the Halloweenfranchise.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (16:36):
He's done a lot, but in the original
John Carpenter Halloween, he wasthe doctor.
So, if you haven't seen theoriginal John Carpenter
Halloween, just Turn off yourpodcast right now.
Um,
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (16:48):
Well, he was a Bond baddie, wasn't he?
Which one was
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2024 (16:52):
he was, a Bond baddie but I can't
remember which Bond it was.
Was it a Roger Moore?
He was upstroke the cat and allthe rest of it.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (16:58):
The Austin Powers kind of rip off,
isn't it?
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2 (17:01):
yeah.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (17:01):
His voice delivering those lines is
very, very effective onchildren, you know, and, again,
Christy as well as warningpeople to stay away from the
water, it's also a warning towomen or Irish maidens of the
time to be wary of strangers andstrange men and stranger danger.
And I think a lot of thewerewolf myths that had their
origins, exactly what you justsaid.
(17:22):
It was an easy way for people inEurope to warn their children
about the risks of murder andbeing abducted.
There
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (17:28):
Yes, don't go, don't go off into the
forest because
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (17:31):
Yeah.
chris-patterson_1_12-04- (17:31):
forget you or,
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (17:32):
The world will forget you, yeah.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (17:34):
and I know, Europe had a massive
belief in vampires and, we werehaving a chat today, Spence,
about some of the stuff we mightdo, in the coming episodes about
some of the original Irishvampire
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (17:45):
yeah.
yeah.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (17:46):
I'm looking forward to doing some of
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (17:47):
Some great stuff to come.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-202 (17:49):
but the Kelpie is most definitely
one of the most interesting andthe fact that, it's not just
Ireland, it's Scotland.
And we sort of have to say thatout loud because our Scottish
listeners might not be too happyif we just claimed it fully, but
I like to think of it as aCeltic, legend that sort of
pulls us together in thatbrotherhood.
But it also tells us, don'ttrust, don't trust.
(18:12):
a soaking wet woman by a lake.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (18:15):
Or a man with hooves for feet.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2 (18:18):
Yeah, I mean, it might be a giveaway,
but hey, could be Halloween.
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (18:21):
Well, I don't know about you, but as
much as I'm enjoying this, I'mvery, very tempted to go have a
look at the night skies, afterwhat you told me at the start of
this.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2 (18:29):
Well, you know it's, it's, if they
were going to invade or I don'tthink it would matter.
I think people are just like,yeah, go away.
I think, you know, people arelike, yes, I'm here.
And then they're like, I
spence_1_12-04-2024_19070 (18:37):
Yeah, Yeah, next.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-2024 (18:39):
so that's the Kelpie.
There's not much more to sayabout it.
If you do happen to come acrossa soaking wet horse, you've been
warned.
I think that's it Spence.
What do you
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (18:49):
I think so, or, trusty producer
Rebecca will put stuff in theshow notes for you folks, some
more information, some greatimagery, and, as ever, thanks
for listening.
chris-patterson_1_12-04-20 (18:57):
Next week is a special.
Next week you will be hearingour Christmas episode and we
have got a humbinger for you.
spence_1_12-04-2024_190707 (19:07):
ho, ho, ho.
Bye, folks.
Looks like your story has foundyou.
I wish It were another.
But what's meant for you, won'tgo by you.
(19:29):
I'm sorry.
Ach, now.
No need to look so scared, eh?
Enjoy the fire.
Have a sop.
Sure.
Is it all just Irish Gothic?
All just Irish Gothic.
chris-patterson_10_10-17-20 (19:56):
You can find us at iris gothic pod
on Instagram or X, or if youwant to support us, please buy
us a coffee
spence_9_10-17-2024_205215 (20:04):
and look, while you're there, give
us a follow to keep up with allthings in the Irish Gothic
Podcast.
Send us any Irish myths,legends, stories that you'd like
us to delve into next.
chris-patterson_10_10-23-20 (20:14):
The Irish Gothic Podcast was brought
to you by Causeway Pictures.
It's hosted by Chris Pattersonand Spence Wright.
And was produced by RebeccaAlcorn.
All rights reserved.
chris-patterson_10_10-17- (20:28):
Check out our other podcast, Hostage
to the Devil, which delves intothe dark world of possession and
exorcism.
You can get it wherever you getyour podcasts.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!