March 17, 2025 • 31 mins
Vampires are … Irish !?
Welcome to season two and a happy St. Patrick’s Day from all of us at Irish Gothic ! No, you haven’t drank too many pints of the black stuff, you read that right - the legend of the vampire finds its origins in the Irish legend of the Abhartach. Join Chris and Spence as they reveal how all of your fanged favourites find their origins in a humble field just outside of County Derry/Londonderry.
The Irish Gothic Podcast explores the origins of Irish Folk tales. myths and legends in all their dark, fantastical glory and how these vivid yarns continue to resonate across the world to this very day.
Join Hosts Chris Patterson and Spence Wright as they fuse their love for all thing's horror with a wellspring of Irish lore.
From the terrifying figure of the Dullahan to the origins of Halloween itself, if it’s a yarn you’re after, pull up a chair and let ‘Irish Gothic’ fill your ears.
Hosts: Chris Patterson & Spence Wright
Producer: Rebecca Alcorn
Production Company: Causeway Pictures
Bibliography:
Learn more about the Abhartach here !
https://yourirish.com/folklore/abhartach-irish-vampire
https://northwordni.org/your-stories/abhartach/
Follow us:
Instagram: @irishgothicpod
X: @irishgothicpod
Website: https://irishgothicpod.buzzsprout.com
Show your support for the podcast at: buymeacoffee.com/irishgothicpod
Checkout our other podcast - Hostage to the Devil, real life stories of exorcism and possession. Wherever you get your podcasts.
Causeway Pictures © All rights reserved
www.causewaypictures.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:22):
I know all the folks round thesearts and parts.
Can't say I know you.
Leastways.
Not yet.
But I dare say I know whatyou'll be wanting.
Some of the crack, maybe.
How we yarn with your sup, isit?
(00:44):
No harm in that.
Come on over.
Warm yourself, hmm?
I'll warn you though.
If it's the old Begara andBlarney shenanigans you're
after, you'll not hear them fromme.
Well, if such, like, pleasesyou, you sit on.
I'll fill your ears.
(01:06):
And see what story is meant foryou.
On this dark old night.
chris-patterson_2_10-23-202 (01:27):
I'm Chris
spencey-guest437_2_10-23-20 (01:28):
I'm Spence
chris-patterson_2_10-23-202 (01:29):
And this is the Irish Gothic
Podcast.
chris-patterson_1_03-10-20 (01:41):
They say good things come in small
packages, but this week ourpackage is full of blood lust
and death, and also could havebeen the forerunner to one of
the most horrific characters inmodern literature.
This is the legend of aver talk.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-2 (02:09):
Hello there, Spence.
It's 2025.
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-2 (02:12):
It's great to be back.
Chris, you're looking very well.
The audiences just have
chris-patterson_2_03-10-2 (02:16):
Well, they will have to trust you.
Yeah., this is the show that weshould have our green beers out
for, because this is certainlyon St.
Patrick's
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-1 (02:23):
Indeed.
I know we are already done withSym Patrick's episode.
We, we got so excited.
We released it too early,
chris-patterson_2_03-10-20 (02:29):
That was a bit of bob planning on
our, behalf.
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-20 (02:32):
The excitement got the better office
on that I did as promisedChristopher, to ish.
Well, I got to the base camp ofSlush it was very, very slippery
days.
We didn't risk going any higherup, but I would say that just,
and anybody should check out orsome public podcast is a very
mysterious and mythicalplacement.
(02:53):
It was quiet and you could veryeasily see how that could be a,
a place where legends could begiven birth.
It was a super, superatmosphere, Roundup one, you
know, but I didn't quite make itto the top body.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-2 (03:04):
Well, I mean, apparently he was a
slave and he used to walk up anddown at Barefoot.
Which is why people do that on aday like today.
Now I might walk up, but I'm notwalking up at Barefoot.
I can tell you that.
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-2025 (03:16):
A little too intrepid for me.
Yeah.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-20 (03:17):
Yes, yes.
This week we are doing adv tech
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-2 (03:31):
Hmm.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-202 (03:32):
The legend of Ireland's earliest
vampire chieftain.
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-20 (03:36):
And I think this is one of those
stories, Chris, that.
We're lucky to be able to countthis as one of our own legends,
have our own little steak, nopun intended I've been working
on that all week.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-20 (03:44):
Have you, have you?
Yeah.
High stakes.
High stakes.
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-1 (03:47):
stakes.
There we go.
I know a little bit about it,but I'm not as familiar with it
as it would be per say, youknow, Dracula and things like
that.
So I'll let you lead me.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-2 (03:57):
well, let me, take you back to county
London Dairy In the fifthcentury, EK was a.
Fearsome dwarf Tarren who ruledover an area of county London
dairy.
Now, size and stature we'vetalked about before, we're much
prized in ancient Ireland withour giants and so forth.
They may well all talk abouttall warriors and strong
(04:19):
farmers, but EK was, and EKmeans and Irish.
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-20 (04:24):
Oh.
chris-patterson_2_03 (04:25):
Apparently No, that's what I'm seeing.
But it appears that when he wasborn, he was given the short end
of the stick,
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10- (04:31):
Okay.
See Chris that sounds okay.
You know, a short tyrant andit's hard to make the leap from
that to vampire.
But I do remember reading thathe was known or considered to
have kinda magical interests.
He was dabbling in the ArcHaarts.
And you start to see thatcreeping into his personality.
And, and he used these things toperpetrate cruelties on his own
(04:52):
people not just his enemies.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-2 (05:04):
Well, he certainly did.
Yes he was first mentioned acollection by Patrick West and
Joyce called the Origins andHistory of Irish names and
places.
So there's a place called Al.
In county London dairy,
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-2 (05:18):
Yes.
Yes.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-202 (05:19):
and he was considered a dwarf
magician and a dreadful tyrantto people.
He perpetrated great cruelty onpeople.
The legend, which was well knownin Irish literary circles, sees
a group of peasants in countydairy rebel against a death pot,
with the help of a neighboringchief in Kathy, they attempt to
kill ock.
On multiple occasions theoperative word here being
(05:42):
attempt because they killed himnumerous times buried him
numerous times, but he risesfrom the grave and demands bold
of blood in compensation.
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-20 (05:54):
Oh, and now we're starting to see
pardon the pun again, bleedinginto each other.
So he demand blood sacrifice hisresurrection.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-2 (06:00):
Well, he demands blood.
Yeah, blood to drink.
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-20 (06:03):
Oh.
Oh,
Chris Patterson (06:04):
So one of the things with the first time, like
and I, that's sort of killingmultiple times, reminds me of,
Rasputin the Mad Monk
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-20 (06:12):
Mm.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-2025 (06:13):
In Russia.
Where they apparently killed himand knifed him and poisoned him
and shot him and he stillwouldn't die.
But they killed him and theyburied him, and the next day he
was up and about.
So as you say, you can alreadysee the similarities between AV
talk and a certain Romanianprince.
squadcaster-53e9_2_ (06:33):
Absolutely.
And, and the similarities geteven more, prominent Chris,
because I think one of the waysthat the peasantry killed him on
at least one occasion, uh,you'll love this.
They ran him through with asword made of view wood and
buried him upside downsurrounding his grave with
thorns.
And then a top degree of a largerock.
So I'm thinking, you know, youwould, that's is that stake
(06:56):
through the heart, know,vampires buried at a crossroads.
This guy's buried standing up.
So, so again, you can see thoselittle sort of treasure fire if
you like, flying out from way,way back and into the minds of
riders, in the future, you know,that definitely, there's
definitely an overlap.
Definitely an overlap.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-2 (07:15):
Well, actually the sword made of
YouTube was given to them by alocal Dr in desperation they had
went to the local Dr.
I.
Later on in versions, it becomesa Christian hermit.
would say that's after ourlanding of St.
Patrick.
But at this period, they went toa local druid who to find out
the proper remedy for dealingwith a member of the undead.
(07:39):
Well, as you say, they run'emthrough, they buried'em upside
down and they to the grid overthe large rock, and apparently
that had the desired effect.
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-20 (07:51):
was that Dr.
Lake or Van Healthing?
chris-patterson_2_03-10-2 (07:54):
Well, this is it.
I mean, van Helsing of course isthe, the all knowing.
He's, he's the person whodestroys Dracula at the end of
the book and at the end of everyfilm.
But you know, without him, theDracula he would keep on going
and murdering forever.
So to have a, knowledge, afountain of knowledge to go to
(08:17):
is very much in the way of thesetales.
There always is somebody to goto.
chris-patterson_3_03-10-202 (08:22):
And actually today, Spence, you can
go and visit Avox grave.
It is locally referred to as agiant grave, and it comprises of
a large rock with two smallerrocks under a Hawthorne.
And it located just north ofMcara and County London Dairy in
Furrows, Northern Ireland, wherewe're sitting right now.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10 (08:44):
Chris, I'm gonna stop you there because
I know you're tempted to giveexact coordinates to where this.
Dormal is, but they have toremember the cautionary deal
because that the tree had notworn that if you disturb the
rocks on the grave, his royalblood ness may well return.
chris-patterson_3_03-10-2 (08:58):
Well, it's funny you should say that
because, later on we'll talkabout some friends of ours who
made a film that that very samething did happen.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-20 (09:07):
Oh, wow.
I, I know there was adocumentary, my as well.
I mean, I've seen a photographof the site and it's, you know,
again, it's like everythingelse.
It's striking.
There was a documentary by afella, ga, is it the um, leak of
Gentleman series.
He's a huge horror, a fish atyes, ga mark.
GA is,
chris-patterson_3_03-10-20 (09:26):
yes.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-20 (09:27):
and I'm sure he done a show here on
the B, BC and went and visitedthe site as well.
And again, we'll get we linkedto that and stick it in the show
notes.
But I, you know what I loveabout it, Chris?
It's like all these things inIrish Gothic the fact that, you
know, okay, we're lucky we livein, in Northern Ireland.
We can go and see them, butanyone visiting these things are
all there.
They're still there.
All these things are withintouch and distance, which also
(09:48):
gives it a wee level of dangeras well when you're talking with
this guy.
chris-patterson_3_03-10- (09:51):
that's it.
I mean, we're not gonna saywhere they are, but anyone can
find them.
Um, and they can go to most ofthe places.
Well, a Cave of Cats was one inour last season.
They can definitely go and
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10- (10:00):
Yeah.
chris-patterson_3_03 (10:01):
Experience it for themselves.
Northern Ireland and indeedIreland is very welcoming to
people coming in.
But this is where it getsinteresting, I think.
'cause this is where we talkabout certain Transylvanian
prince and similarities of abook that was written in the
1890s by an Irish man calledBrahm Stucker.
(10:22):
Can you guess any guesses there?
Spence?
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-2025 (10:25):
I honestly, I'm thinking, is it
the dad and loving it?
chris-patterson_3_03-10-202 (10:28):
Oh, straight on I, well, it's
Bridget Jones'.
Diary.
Oh, of course it's Dracula, thatmasterpiece of horror, but is it
as original as we may think?
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10- (10:57):
Well, I, I know Chris from reading,
and I came to this writer's workvery late from Embarra to say,
but I know Sheridan Le who in1872, about 25 years before
Stoker's Dracula, he's sort ofbeen credited being one of the
godfathers of vampire fiction inhis female vampire fame story
Carmilla.
(11:18):
and again, an Irish man, youknow, so did Sheridan's work
influenced bro stickers and didthe legend that we are talking
about influenced both of them.
chris-patterson_3_03-10-2 (11:26):
Well, it's interesting because when
you look at St.
Stucker, St.
Stucker did not get anyinformation about vampires
firsthand from Sylvania.
In fact, he never even wentthere.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-1 (11:39):
Really.
chris-patterson_3_03-10-2 (11:39):
Yeah, it was, it was never his
intention to have his vampirecome from Transylvania.
he didn't base his originalstory on the historical Dracula
not only did Stucker know verylittle about Vlad, there was.
Never any association with Vladand vampires.
there was association with VladImpaling people.
(12:03):
there's plenty of, books you canread about the original paler
impaled people on massivestakes, but.
There was no talk of Vamir inany way around Vlad at that
point.
And there was no talk of vampirein the intervening years between
his death and the writing ofDracula.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-202 (12:23):
It is amazing, Chris, when we
talked about Sleepy Hollow andhow.
Writers, pick things from their,from the people around them,
from their childhood, from thefolk stories they were told.
And then suddenly, you know,news stories were born.
And I remember one of the thingsthat was, was referred to in
relation to Dracula was whenthey talked about the character
of, Lizzie.
and, and you know, same whereshe's on, on the bed and
(12:45):
everyone's huddles around her ina real effort to save her.
And one of the things that upthis was that there was a
memorial sculpture inside IrishEMPAs church in Mon, and that's
known as the depart Glance.
And that showed a woman on herdeath bed, people gathered
around her, and the sculpturewas dedicated to Maryanne Wera
(13:06):
by her husband.
William Westra, and that is ofcourse, you know the character
name in Dracula
chris-patterson_3_03-10-2 (13:29):
We're starting to find these little
golden nuggets of proof thatvampires originally came from
Ireland.
I think we've said this before,but we know from Stoker's notes
that the central character inhis 1897 novel was originally
going to be called Count VampirePar.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-20 (13:47):
Oh, right.
chris-patterson_3_03-10-2025 (13:48):
So that's W-A-M-P-Y-R.
The idea to insert the nameDracula came later.
After the crux of the story hadbeen developed, in fact, Dracula
wasn't even the original titleof the novel.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-20 (14:00):
No.
chris-patterson_3_03-10-20 (14:01):
from his first 541 page manuscript
now owned by the co-founder ofMicrosoft, Paul Allen,
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10- (14:08):
What?
Hi Doug, come about.
chris-patterson_3_03- (14:11):
stocker's original title for what would
become Dracula was the Undead.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-20 (14:16):
Oh.
Oh, that's quite cool too.
But it's that hard.
You imagine.
New director.
How did the Microsoft guy end upwith that manuscript?
chris-patterson_3_03-10-2025 (14:24):
It was discovered in a barn in the
1980s, and I'm sure it was wortha lot of money.
And the co-founder of Microsoft,
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-20 (14:32):
Who doesn't need any money?
chris-patterson_3_03-10-2025 (14:33):
he doesn't need any money.
No.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-202 (14:35):
It would be a guy, the guy who
finds it.
chris-patterson_3_03-10-202 (14:37):
you know, he would probably bought
it there and, know.
for not more than it's worth,but you know, he has the
original 541 page manuscript.
I mean, it must be an amazingsite to see.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-20 (14:50):
But definitely see,'cause all these
overtones leading back there ofattack the par, the control, the
inability to stay dead, theblood sacrifice, the wooden
sticks.
Then see how that all can getmelded and infused with stoker's
writing give us Michael, that'sone of the most enduring horror
monsters.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-20 (15:10):
Just to put a final thing on the
Brahm Stucker, Dracula and wherehe got his ideas from.
I think we talked a little bitabout this in the headless
horseman.
Where we said that the rider ofthe headless horseman had spent
a lot of time at Oscar Wilde'shouse with Oscar, Wilde's wife
and Oscar, and they talked aboutdifferent Irish myths and
legends.
Well, funny enough, there wasanother person who often went
(15:33):
round for tea at their house,and that might have been, uh, a
Mr.
Bram Stoker.
So even if Bram wasn't up on hisIrish Myths and Legends.
I certainly think that thoseteas might have, opened up a new
world for'em.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-20 (15:48):
Oh, absolutely.
Well, what?
What a table to be gallerydrawing me.
must have been between thosefolks.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025 (15:55):
It definitely sounds like wild was
a major influence on a lot ofthese horror writers.
In terms of passing on a storiesand myths and legends.
It must have been a reallyinteresting time to sit around
that table and they were justsoaking it all in.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10- (16:12):
Yeah.
And we're still feeling theripples of that now.
And movies and of course acrossthe world, Chris, different
versions of vampires, in India,the battle, is described as an
nondead creature, a bit like abat.
And from our vamp prim stories,and it hangs upside down on
trees in cemeteries andcremation grounds.
the Pasha, the return Spirits ofevil deers, or those who died in
(16:36):
sin also can have vampireattributes.
Think there's probably no end ofversions of this tonight.
Will we ever know for sure that,the one in that little field in
macra is the original?
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2 (16:49):
Well, I think he is, Spence, what's
your most favorite vampire film?
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2 (17:08):
Ooh.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-20 (17:10):
Have you got one or does it take a
couple?
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-202 (17:12):
Do you know what?
I think I have one wasexperience of watching it as
much as anything else.
Salem's lot.
During my formative years, I'msure you remember Chris was
screened as a two parter on theBBC you know, a movie
effectively, and people of myage shouldn't have been watching
it, but we all did.
And that scene with the childvampire scraping the window, it
(17:35):
really got into my DNA,introduced me to the work of
Steven can, et cetera.
So purely for the impact off itme that would.
I mean, there's so many.
I love me.
I love 30 days a night.
I love track.
But no, Ferra looks at thecracking show.
I haven't seen yet today.
I've obviously seen theoriginal, so, but I'm gonna go
with Sam's lot bit because Ithink it left a real mark on me.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025_ (17:59):
I have an interesting fact about
Nosferatu'cause Nos Ferra Twowas written after Dracula.
And if you know the story ofNosferatu, it is very much the
story of Dracula and Tucker'swife sued not the makers of
Nosferatu, the original PhilBlack and white film and won.
(18:20):
So now the St.
Stucker estate.
Gets money from Nosferatu.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-1 (18:25):
Really, my goodness.
I don't know why I would justassume, you know, plagiarism and
libel and suing as being amodern phenomenon.
But there you go people were outback then too, so yeah.
Okay.
that was basically theunofficial movie version Stokers
Drager,
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025_ (18:42):
I mean, they tried to change.
I mean, it was count or lock.
You know, and he came to thecountry and he fell in love with
a woman.
And was very similar.
The plot points quite a bit,
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2 (18:53):
Yeah but what was your favorite film
part?
Maybe B, Chris and why?
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025_ (18:56):
I think there's a lot of them.
Um, mean, I mean, the Lost Boys,one of my favorites.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-202 (19:03):
of course.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (19:04):
Uh, but I think it's very much a
story of its time, if that makessense.
Got the music, it's goteverything else.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-2025 (19:10):
I mean, mentioned the NRIs film
based around that.
chris-patterson_3_03-10-20 (19:14):
Yes.
the film by a couple of friendsof ours was made in 2021.
It was a film called, the Boysfrom County of Hell.
And that depicted someonedisturbing the grave of Aver
Talk and the big man comingback.
Very good I think it's onshutter.
if anyone wants to have a lookat it, certainly it's a northern
Irish based film.
But certainly, there's no end tothe vampire legend.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (19:37):
The right one in.
Well, it don't let the right onein or let the right one in
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-20 (19:40):
Was that the right one then?
Yeah, it felt so original whenit came out and that sort of
urban, gritty to it, even thoughthe subject matter was so
fantastic.
Oh.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2 (19:49):
Well, this is one of the things.
I mean, how many times do peopletry and reinvent the wheel, the
vampire?
you go back to Buffy the VampireSlayer or bleed where the
vampire sort of explode into ashand disappear and I've always
wondered what would be theconsequence of you murdering a
vampire and the body still beingthere?
(20:10):
I mean, how do you explain thatin modern day?
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10- (20:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, that's, well, it hasn't beendone, has it?
That that's, that's one worstthing out the old idea number.
Cruncher.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-20 (20:20):
this vampire killer is seen as a
serial killer,
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10 (20:25):
Uhhuh.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (20:25):
you know, because the bodies don't
go anywhere.
So, but you know, I think it waseasier to answer that question
when they sort of.
Exploded
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10 (20:32):
Uhhuh.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2 (20:33):
there was another one that I remember,
which is quite well, say dark,but Dark was in the title.
It's called Near Dark
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2 (20:40):
Yes.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2 (20:41):
Back.
And it had most, it had a coupleof,
squadcaster-53e9_4_03 (20:43):
Millions.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (20:44):
yes it did.
It was a film just after Alienswas made.
I think it was made in 87 and Ithink Alien's 86 maybe.
But it had.
A really interesting take onvampires and how they got around
during the day.
But when you think about it, therules, and we often talk about
this on stuff we're developingSpence, that the rules are very
(21:05):
important when you're developinga character.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10- (21:07):
Yeah.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (21:08):
And has happened has elements of
these rules have come down.
Through Irish mythology andprobably mythology from other
parts of the world, but they'veall been honed down into maybe
10 things that a vapi
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-1 (21:22):
Mm-hmm.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2 (21:24):
can't have you.
Sunlight through the heart.
Beheaded.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-20 (21:28):
and the holy water and,
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2 (21:30):
Yeah.
All that.
And crosses,
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-20 (21:33):
and interesting Chris, on that, you
know, I guess we touched uponthis in different forms and
nearly all our episodes.
Funny enough, because when youtalked about the original legend
there.
It was a dred, so it was areligious figure killed with a
religious magical weapon thatyou stick.
But you can see how Christianitythen enters the story because we
(21:53):
look at how they're, beaten anddefeated now.
holy water.
It's the cross, it's the faith,it's the holy one.
Um, so the iconography and the,the people kinda change, but the
essence is the same.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2 (22:07):
well, most definitely.
I mean, I'm gonna, I'm gonnadate myself here and sort of
refer back to there was a seasonof Dr.
Who with Sylvester McCoy, and itwas a bit of a mix of the fog
and and the vampire film.
And it was about Viking vampiresa Russian invasion in England in
1940s.
And they raised up Vikingvampires.
But one of the scenes thatinterested me in that I remember
(22:28):
a long time watching it was, oneof the Russian soldiers had to
walk through the batch ofvampires and.
He took off off his hat asRussians hammer and sickle.
And the woman said to him, no,you need a cross.
And he said, it's not theobject, it's the faith.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-20 (22:46):
Ah, there you go.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-20 (22:48):
That also happens, I believe in
seal's lot.
He holds it up and he says, no,you have to have faith.
And he's able to take the crossoff, the preacher.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-1 (22:56):
Whereas the writer character, I think,
does he not fashion across atthe two sticks?
'cause he believes it'll work.
Whereas you say the Holy Mamadidn't have the just enough
faith, the face old Burlow.
Hello.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025 (23:07):
Is it the play on faith that
defeats these, you know theholding up of the cross and,
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10- (23:12):
Yeah.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2 (23:13):
know, the holy water that burned them,
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-1 (23:15):
Mm-hmm.
chris-patterson_4_03-10 (23:15):
Because they're evil.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-20 (23:17):
The purifying light of sunlight,
it's almost godly and angelic initself.
You know, it's, I suppose everymonster has to have that way of
defeating it, and if theChristian belief can make that
tie it's fear and protection.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2 (23:43):
Well, who's your favorite?
Dracula?
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2025 (23:45):
I did love Christopher Lee.
There was a sort of feral savageness about him.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025_ (23:50):
I definitely think I was a Lee
fan.
I could go back to Bella, goback right back to Bella Zi.
who in another tidbit, wasburied in his director outfit.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10- (23:59):
We'll see.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025 (24:00):
He was indeed.
I mean, there was typecast andthen there was what happened to
him?
He was buried when he died inhis Dracula outfit.
I I think vampires are verymuch, part of our culture now.
Even though they, I say don'texist, I assume they don't
exist.
I haven't been bitten by one orseen one, but they don't exist.
But they're very much part ofour culture and nobody really
(24:21):
questions.
A Vampire TV show or a vampirefilm.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-20 (24:26):
And you don't have to spend like
most movies or stories, you'vegotta establish those rules.
They've almost been absorbedinto or global sort of
consciousness by osmosis.
You know, new series, justbarely have to even touch on the
rules.
We just know them.
Whether they're real, et cetera.
Would you then, Chris.
Think about going to that fieldin London, dairy and removing a
couple of little stones.
Would you,
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2 (24:46):
Well, I would, uh, I think I would, I
think, I think I, I, you know,there might be something else
down there that's worth money,but I can oil, probably oil or
something like that.
But it's interesting because Iwas looking online, just before
we did this, and there's a lotof people talking about,
vampires, real vampires in NewOrleans.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2 (25:04):
Hmm.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-20 (25:05):
And, and not people murdering people,
but people drinking blood.
Like it's sort of vampire clubs,that type of thing, that sort of
interview with the vampire NewOrleans, that type of on race
job.
But there is a certainsubculture where people blood
lit for better, of a betterreason, and they will take, and
(25:27):
I guess blood is a veryimportant part of the whole
legend because blood the lifethat keeps them going.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10- (25:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (25:37):
But they can never die unless
specific things happen.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2 (25:40):
This is probably more humorous than
scary.
My wife and I many years ago,Chris did like to hear that
story.
were in Florida.
We were sat at a bar and therewas a man sitting beside us and
he had slicked hair, you know,very Christopher Lee slash Ray
Rearden for old snooker fans.
And he had these headphones onand he was staring intensely.
I could see him in the mirror,so I guess that was a sign, but
(26:02):
my wife was obsessed with thisguy and she tapped him on the
shoulder and she popped theearphone out of his ear and
said, what are you listening to?
And out out of the phone camethis really weird chanting.
It wasn't music.
It was strange, strangechanting.
He turned around and he smiledand he had two fouled teeth and
he said, I have a va.
(26:23):
He put his headphone back in andstared straight ahead, and we
drank up and got back to
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (26:28):
Oh,
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10 (26:29):
cooked toot.
Sweet.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025_ (26:31):
I would imagine.
So did you, do you know thereason vampires weren't seen in
mirrors?
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-20 (26:37):
Is, this isn't a joke, is it?
No.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (26:38):
No, no, no.
It's not a joke.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2025 (26:40):
I dunno.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (26:41):
The reason they weren't seen in
original murs is because murswere backed with silver.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-20 (26:46):
Oh.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025 (26:46):
in modern times, we don't back murs
with silver, I believe.
So it would make sense that theycould see, you could see a
vampire of me.
Now,
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-202 (26:53):
So he could have been real then.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (26:56):
who knows, he didn't jump up and rip
your head off.
He didn't walk into, what is it?
The the titty twister in.
Um,
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2025 (27:03):
a regular pace.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (27:05):
and from Dust till Dawn,
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2025 (27:07):
I kept thinking that scene in Lost
Boys, you wanna could sw it inoff the sea, to the pier there.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-20 (27:12):
what always got me about that scene
in Lost Boys was you had thissort of bird noise over them.
And it was like,'cause theinteresting thing about Lost
Boys was until the end, didn'tever see them fly.
It was always the camera.
It was a bit like Jaws.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2 (27:27):
Yes.
Yes, it did.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025 (27:28):
It was always the camera coming in
and it.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-20 (27:30):
did the hard work.
Yeah.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025 (27:31):
It really did that.
It really did that work.
I mean, I, we could go, we couldtalk all night about different
types of vampires, but I thinkthat when it really comes down
to it, no matter who tries toinvent, re, or reinvent the
vampire, it always comes back tothe basics of sucking blood.
(27:52):
It always comes back to verymuch.
You know, those basics.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10- (27:57):
Yeah.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025_ (27:57):
I think in recent years with the
decline of religion, it has comeaway a bit from that sort of
religious icon iconography.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2025 (28:04):
I agree.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (28:05):
But most definitely I think that,
you look at the old Hammerfilms, you go back as far as
Dracula, a Bella leg, and know,even as far back as not farra to
the film, it definitely spellbounds an audience.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2025 (28:18):
A hundred percent Chris, and maybe
the last word of warning to anyof our dear listeners who happen
to be downing through how wefeel the M around, they see a
couple of unusual stones underour Hawthorne tree.
best just to leave them be.
Yeah.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (28:33):
I'd say so.
chris-patterson_5_03-10-2025 (28:54):
So Spence, that was the legend of
aver talk.
I know we got a bit away at theend there with our love of film
and television, but, I mostdefinitely think if you look
into Uck, you're really gonnabelieve that vampires originated
in Ireland.
Like every good story.
squadcaster-53e9_5_03-10-2 (29:14):
Like all good storage masters,
contractual.
chris-patterson_5_03-10-2025 (29:17):
It definitely is.
And we've got a Kraken one nextweek, a kraken one.
Next week we're gonna do thehistory of the re
squadcaster-53e9_5_03-10-20 (29:25):
And I can't get much more Irish than
that.
chris-patterson_5_03-10-202 (29:27):
you cannot.
But here we are on the IrishDay, the global Irish Day, St.
Patrick's Day.
So happy St.
Patrick's Day to all ourlisteners and we will see you
next week with our sticks.
squadcaster-53e9_5_03-10-2 (29:39):
Take care folks.
Looks like your story has foundyou.
I wish It were another.
But what's meant for you, won'tgo by you.
(30:01):
I'm sorry.
Ach, now.
No need to look so scared, eh?
Enjoy the fire.
Have a sop.
Sure.
Is it all just Irish Gothic?
All just Irish Gothic.
chris-patterson_10_10-17-20 (30:28):
You can find us at iris gothic pod
on Instagram or X, or if youwant to support us, please buy
us a coffee
spence_9_10-17-2024_205215 (30:36):
and look, while you're there, give
us a follow to keep up with allthings in the Irish Gothic
Podcast.
Send us any Irish myths,legends, stories that you'd like
us to delve into next.
chris-patterson_10_10-23-20 (30:46):
The Irish Gothic Podcast was brought
to you by Causeway Pictures.
It's hosted by Chris Pattersonand Spence Wright.
And was produced by RebeccaAlcorn.
All rights reserved.
chris-patterson_10_10-17- (31:00):
Check out our other podcast, Hostage
to the Devil, which delves intothe dark world of possession and
exorcism.
You can get it wherever you getyour podcasts.
I know all the folks round thesearts and parts.
Can't say I know you.
Leastways.
Not yet.
But I dare say I know whatyou'll be wanting.
Some of the crack, maybe.
How we yarn with your sup, isit?
(00:44):
No harm in that.
Come on over.
Warm yourself, hmm?
I'll warn you though.
If it's the old Begara andBlarney shenanigans you're
after, you'll not hear them fromme.
Well, if such, like, pleasesyou, you sit on.
I'll fill your ears.
(01:06):
And see what story is meant foryou.
On this dark old night.
chris-patterson_2_10-23-202 (01:27):
I'm Chris
spencey-guest437_2_10-23-20 (01:28):
I'm Spence
chris-patterson_2_10-23-202 (01:29):
And this is the Irish Gothic
Podcast.
chris-patterson_1_03-10-20 (01:41):
They say good things come in small
packages, but this week ourpackage is full of blood lust
and death, and also could havebeen the forerunner to one of
the most horrific characters inmodern literature.
This is the legend of aver talk.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-2 (02:09):
Hello there, Spence.
It's 2025.
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-2 (02:12):
It's great to be back.
Chris, you're looking very well.
The audiences just have
chris-patterson_2_03-10-2 (02:16):
Well, they will have to trust you.
Yeah., this is the show that weshould have our green beers out
for, because this is certainlyon St.
Patrick's
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-1 (02:23):
Indeed.
I know we are already done withSym Patrick's episode.
We, we got so excited.
We released it too early,
chris-patterson_2_03-10-20 (02:29):
That was a bit of bob planning on
our, behalf.
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-20 (02:32):
The excitement got the better office
on that I did as promisedChristopher, to ish.
Well, I got to the base camp ofSlush it was very, very slippery
days.
We didn't risk going any higherup, but I would say that just,
and anybody should check out orsome public podcast is a very
mysterious and mythicalplacement.
(02:53):
It was quiet and you could veryeasily see how that could be a,
a place where legends could begiven birth.
It was a super, superatmosphere, Roundup one, you
know, but I didn't quite make itto the top body.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-2 (03:04):
Well, I mean, apparently he was a
slave and he used to walk up anddown at Barefoot.
Which is why people do that on aday like today.
Now I might walk up, but I'm notwalking up at Barefoot.
I can tell you that.
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-2025 (03:16):
A little too intrepid for me.
Yeah.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-20 (03:17):
Yes, yes.
This week we are doing adv tech
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-2 (03:31):
Hmm.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-202 (03:32):
The legend of Ireland's earliest
vampire chieftain.
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-20 (03:36):
And I think this is one of those
stories, Chris, that.
We're lucky to be able to countthis as one of our own legends,
have our own little steak, nopun intended I've been working
on that all week.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-20 (03:44):
Have you, have you?
Yeah.
High stakes.
High stakes.
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-1 (03:47):
stakes.
There we go.
I know a little bit about it,but I'm not as familiar with it
as it would be per say, youknow, Dracula and things like
that.
So I'll let you lead me.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-2 (03:57):
well, let me, take you back to county
London Dairy In the fifthcentury, EK was a.
Fearsome dwarf Tarren who ruledover an area of county London
dairy.
Now, size and stature we'vetalked about before, we're much
prized in ancient Ireland withour giants and so forth.
They may well all talk abouttall warriors and strong
(04:19):
farmers, but EK was, and EKmeans and Irish.
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-20 (04:24):
Oh.
chris-patterson_2_03 (04:25):
Apparently No, that's what I'm seeing.
But it appears that when he wasborn, he was given the short end
of the stick,
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10- (04:31):
Okay.
See Chris that sounds okay.
You know, a short tyrant andit's hard to make the leap from
that to vampire.
But I do remember reading thathe was known or considered to
have kinda magical interests.
He was dabbling in the ArcHaarts.
And you start to see thatcreeping into his personality.
And, and he used these things toperpetrate cruelties on his own
(04:52):
people not just his enemies.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-2 (05:04):
Well, he certainly did.
Yes he was first mentioned acollection by Patrick West and
Joyce called the Origins andHistory of Irish names and
places.
So there's a place called Al.
In county London dairy,
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-2 (05:18):
Yes.
Yes.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-202 (05:19):
and he was considered a dwarf
magician and a dreadful tyrantto people.
He perpetrated great cruelty onpeople.
The legend, which was well knownin Irish literary circles, sees
a group of peasants in countydairy rebel against a death pot,
with the help of a neighboringchief in Kathy, they attempt to
kill ock.
On multiple occasions theoperative word here being
(05:42):
attempt because they killed himnumerous times buried him
numerous times, but he risesfrom the grave and demands bold
of blood in compensation.
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-20 (05:54):
Oh, and now we're starting to see
pardon the pun again, bleedinginto each other.
So he demand blood sacrifice hisresurrection.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-2 (06:00):
Well, he demands blood.
Yeah, blood to drink.
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-20 (06:03):
Oh.
Oh,
Chris Patterson (06:04):
So one of the things with the first time, like
and I, that's sort of killingmultiple times, reminds me of,
Rasputin the Mad Monk
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-20 (06:12):
Mm.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-2025 (06:13):
In Russia.
Where they apparently killed himand knifed him and poisoned him
and shot him and he stillwouldn't die.
But they killed him and theyburied him, and the next day he
was up and about.
So as you say, you can alreadysee the similarities between AV
talk and a certain Romanianprince.
squadcaster-53e9_2_ (06:33):
Absolutely.
And, and the similarities geteven more, prominent Chris,
because I think one of the waysthat the peasantry killed him on
at least one occasion, uh,you'll love this.
They ran him through with asword made of view wood and
buried him upside downsurrounding his grave with
thorns.
And then a top degree of a largerock.
So I'm thinking, you know, youwould, that's is that stake
(06:56):
through the heart, know,vampires buried at a crossroads.
This guy's buried standing up.
So, so again, you can see thoselittle sort of treasure fire if
you like, flying out from way,way back and into the minds of
riders, in the future, you know,that definitely, there's
definitely an overlap.
Definitely an overlap.
chris-patterson_2_03-10-2 (07:15):
Well, actually the sword made of
YouTube was given to them by alocal Dr in desperation they had
went to the local Dr.
I.
Later on in versions, it becomesa Christian hermit.
would say that's after ourlanding of St.
Patrick.
But at this period, they went toa local druid who to find out
the proper remedy for dealingwith a member of the undead.
(07:39):
Well, as you say, they run'emthrough, they buried'em upside
down and they to the grid overthe large rock, and apparently
that had the desired effect.
squadcaster-53e9_2_03-10-20 (07:51):
was that Dr.
Lake or Van Healthing?
chris-patterson_2_03-10-2 (07:54):
Well, this is it.
I mean, van Helsing of course isthe, the all knowing.
He's, he's the person whodestroys Dracula at the end of
the book and at the end of everyfilm.
But you know, without him, theDracula he would keep on going
and murdering forever.
So to have a, knowledge, afountain of knowledge to go to
(08:17):
is very much in the way of thesetales.
There always is somebody to goto.
chris-patterson_3_03-10-202 (08:22):
And actually today, Spence, you can
go and visit Avox grave.
It is locally referred to as agiant grave, and it comprises of
a large rock with two smallerrocks under a Hawthorne.
And it located just north ofMcara and County London Dairy in
Furrows, Northern Ireland, wherewe're sitting right now.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10 (08:44):
Chris, I'm gonna stop you there because
I know you're tempted to giveexact coordinates to where this.
Dormal is, but they have toremember the cautionary deal
because that the tree had notworn that if you disturb the
rocks on the grave, his royalblood ness may well return.
chris-patterson_3_03-10-2 (08:58):
Well, it's funny you should say that
because, later on we'll talkabout some friends of ours who
made a film that that very samething did happen.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-20 (09:07):
Oh, wow.
I, I know there was adocumentary, my as well.
I mean, I've seen a photographof the site and it's, you know,
again, it's like everythingelse.
It's striking.
There was a documentary by afella, ga, is it the um, leak of
Gentleman series.
He's a huge horror, a fish atyes, ga mark.
GA is,
chris-patterson_3_03-10-20 (09:26):
yes.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-20 (09:27):
and I'm sure he done a show here on
the B, BC and went and visitedthe site as well.
And again, we'll get we linkedto that and stick it in the show
notes.
But I, you know what I loveabout it, Chris?
It's like all these things inIrish Gothic the fact that, you
know, okay, we're lucky we livein, in Northern Ireland.
We can go and see them, butanyone visiting these things are
all there.
They're still there.
All these things are withintouch and distance, which also
(09:48):
gives it a wee level of dangeras well when you're talking with
this guy.
chris-patterson_3_03-10- (09:51):
that's it.
I mean, we're not gonna saywhere they are, but anyone can
find them.
Um, and they can go to most ofthe places.
Well, a Cave of Cats was one inour last season.
They can definitely go and
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10- (10:00):
Yeah.
chris-patterson_3_03 (10:01):
Experience it for themselves.
Northern Ireland and indeedIreland is very welcoming to
people coming in.
But this is where it getsinteresting, I think.
'cause this is where we talkabout certain Transylvanian
prince and similarities of abook that was written in the
1890s by an Irish man calledBrahm Stucker.
(10:22):
Can you guess any guesses there?
Spence?
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-2025 (10:25):
I honestly, I'm thinking, is it
the dad and loving it?
chris-patterson_3_03-10-202 (10:28):
Oh, straight on I, well, it's
Bridget Jones'.
Diary.
Oh, of course it's Dracula, thatmasterpiece of horror, but is it
as original as we may think?
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10- (10:57):
Well, I, I know Chris from reading,
and I came to this writer's workvery late from Embarra to say,
but I know Sheridan Le who in1872, about 25 years before
Stoker's Dracula, he's sort ofbeen credited being one of the
godfathers of vampire fiction inhis female vampire fame story
Carmilla.
(11:18):
and again, an Irish man, youknow, so did Sheridan's work
influenced bro stickers and didthe legend that we are talking
about influenced both of them.
chris-patterson_3_03-10-2 (11:26):
Well, it's interesting because when
you look at St.
Stucker, St.
Stucker did not get anyinformation about vampires
firsthand from Sylvania.
In fact, he never even wentthere.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-1 (11:39):
Really.
chris-patterson_3_03-10-2 (11:39):
Yeah, it was, it was never his
intention to have his vampirecome from Transylvania.
he didn't base his originalstory on the historical Dracula
not only did Stucker know verylittle about Vlad, there was.
Never any association with Vladand vampires.
there was association with VladImpaling people.
(12:03):
there's plenty of, books you canread about the original paler
impaled people on massivestakes, but.
There was no talk of Vamir inany way around Vlad at that
point.
And there was no talk of vampirein the intervening years between
his death and the writing ofDracula.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-202 (12:23):
It is amazing, Chris, when we
talked about Sleepy Hollow andhow.
Writers, pick things from their,from the people around them,
from their childhood, from thefolk stories they were told.
And then suddenly, you know,news stories were born.
And I remember one of the thingsthat was, was referred to in
relation to Dracula was whenthey talked about the character
of, Lizzie.
and, and you know, same whereshe's on, on the bed and
(12:45):
everyone's huddles around her ina real effort to save her.
And one of the things that upthis was that there was a
memorial sculpture inside IrishEMPAs church in Mon, and that's
known as the depart Glance.
And that showed a woman on herdeath bed, people gathered
around her, and the sculpturewas dedicated to Maryanne Wera
(13:06):
by her husband.
William Westra, and that is ofcourse, you know the character
name in Dracula
chris-patterson_3_03-10-2 (13:29):
We're starting to find these little
golden nuggets of proof thatvampires originally came from
Ireland.
I think we've said this before,but we know from Stoker's notes
that the central character inhis 1897 novel was originally
going to be called Count VampirePar.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-20 (13:47):
Oh, right.
chris-patterson_3_03-10-2025 (13:48):
So that's W-A-M-P-Y-R.
The idea to insert the nameDracula came later.
After the crux of the story hadbeen developed, in fact, Dracula
wasn't even the original titleof the novel.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-20 (14:00):
No.
chris-patterson_3_03-10-20 (14:01):
from his first 541 page manuscript
now owned by the co-founder ofMicrosoft, Paul Allen,
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10- (14:08):
What?
Hi Doug, come about.
chris-patterson_3_03- (14:11):
stocker's original title for what would
become Dracula was the Undead.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-20 (14:16):
Oh.
Oh, that's quite cool too.
But it's that hard.
You imagine.
New director.
How did the Microsoft guy end upwith that manuscript?
chris-patterson_3_03-10-2025 (14:24):
It was discovered in a barn in the
1980s, and I'm sure it was wortha lot of money.
And the co-founder of Microsoft,
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-20 (14:32):
Who doesn't need any money?
chris-patterson_3_03-10-2025 (14:33):
he doesn't need any money.
No.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-202 (14:35):
It would be a guy, the guy who
finds it.
chris-patterson_3_03-10-202 (14:37):
you know, he would probably bought
it there and, know.
for not more than it's worth,but you know, he has the
original 541 page manuscript.
I mean, it must be an amazingsite to see.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-20 (14:50):
But definitely see,'cause all these
overtones leading back there ofattack the par, the control, the
inability to stay dead, theblood sacrifice, the wooden
sticks.
Then see how that all can getmelded and infused with stoker's
writing give us Michael, that'sone of the most enduring horror
monsters.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-20 (15:10):
Just to put a final thing on the
Brahm Stucker, Dracula and wherehe got his ideas from.
I think we talked a little bitabout this in the headless
horseman.
Where we said that the rider ofthe headless horseman had spent
a lot of time at Oscar Wilde'shouse with Oscar, Wilde's wife
and Oscar, and they talked aboutdifferent Irish myths and
legends.
Well, funny enough, there wasanother person who often went
(15:33):
round for tea at their house,and that might have been, uh, a
Mr.
Bram Stoker.
So even if Bram wasn't up on hisIrish Myths and Legends.
I certainly think that thoseteas might have, opened up a new
world for'em.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-20 (15:48):
Oh, absolutely.
Well, what?
What a table to be gallerydrawing me.
must have been between thosefolks.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025 (15:55):
It definitely sounds like wild was
a major influence on a lot ofthese horror writers.
In terms of passing on a storiesand myths and legends.
It must have been a reallyinteresting time to sit around
that table and they were justsoaking it all in.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10- (16:12):
Yeah.
And we're still feeling theripples of that now.
And movies and of course acrossthe world, Chris, different
versions of vampires, in India,the battle, is described as an
nondead creature, a bit like abat.
And from our vamp prim stories,and it hangs upside down on
trees in cemeteries andcremation grounds.
the Pasha, the return Spirits ofevil deers, or those who died in
(16:36):
sin also can have vampireattributes.
Think there's probably no end ofversions of this tonight.
Will we ever know for sure that,the one in that little field in
macra is the original?
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2 (16:49):
Well, I think he is, Spence, what's
your most favorite vampire film?
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2 (17:08):
Ooh.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-20 (17:10):
Have you got one or does it take a
couple?
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-202 (17:12):
Do you know what?
I think I have one wasexperience of watching it as
much as anything else.
Salem's lot.
During my formative years, I'msure you remember Chris was
screened as a two parter on theBBC you know, a movie
effectively, and people of myage shouldn't have been watching
it, but we all did.
And that scene with the childvampire scraping the window, it
(17:35):
really got into my DNA,introduced me to the work of
Steven can, et cetera.
So purely for the impact off itme that would.
I mean, there's so many.
I love me.
I love 30 days a night.
I love track.
But no, Ferra looks at thecracking show.
I haven't seen yet today.
I've obviously seen theoriginal, so, but I'm gonna go
with Sam's lot bit because Ithink it left a real mark on me.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025_ (17:59):
I have an interesting fact about
Nosferatu'cause Nos Ferra Twowas written after Dracula.
And if you know the story ofNosferatu, it is very much the
story of Dracula and Tucker'swife sued not the makers of
Nosferatu, the original PhilBlack and white film and won.
(18:20):
So now the St.
Stucker estate.
Gets money from Nosferatu.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-1 (18:25):
Really, my goodness.
I don't know why I would justassume, you know, plagiarism and
libel and suing as being amodern phenomenon.
But there you go people were outback then too, so yeah.
Okay.
that was basically theunofficial movie version Stokers
Drager,
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025_ (18:42):
I mean, they tried to change.
I mean, it was count or lock.
You know, and he came to thecountry and he fell in love with
a woman.
And was very similar.
The plot points quite a bit,
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2 (18:53):
Yeah but what was your favorite film
part?
Maybe B, Chris and why?
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025_ (18:56):
I think there's a lot of them.
Um, mean, I mean, the Lost Boys,one of my favorites.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-202 (19:03):
of course.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (19:04):
Uh, but I think it's very much a
story of its time, if that makessense.
Got the music, it's goteverything else.
squadcaster-53e9_3_03-10-2025 (19:10):
I mean, mentioned the NRIs film
based around that.
chris-patterson_3_03-10-20 (19:14):
Yes.
the film by a couple of friendsof ours was made in 2021.
It was a film called, the Boysfrom County of Hell.
And that depicted someonedisturbing the grave of Aver
Talk and the big man comingback.
Very good I think it's onshutter.
if anyone wants to have a lookat it, certainly it's a northern
Irish based film.
But certainly, there's no end tothe vampire legend.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (19:37):
The right one in.
Well, it don't let the right onein or let the right one in
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-20 (19:40):
Was that the right one then?
Yeah, it felt so original whenit came out and that sort of
urban, gritty to it, even thoughthe subject matter was so
fantastic.
Oh.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2 (19:49):
Well, this is one of the things.
I mean, how many times do peopletry and reinvent the wheel, the
vampire?
you go back to Buffy the VampireSlayer or bleed where the
vampire sort of explode into ashand disappear and I've always
wondered what would be theconsequence of you murdering a
vampire and the body still beingthere?
(20:10):
I mean, how do you explain thatin modern day?
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10- (20:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, that's, well, it hasn't beendone, has it?
That that's, that's one worstthing out the old idea number.
Cruncher.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-20 (20:20):
this vampire killer is seen as a
serial killer,
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10 (20:25):
Uhhuh.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (20:25):
you know, because the bodies don't
go anywhere.
So, but you know, I think it waseasier to answer that question
when they sort of.
Exploded
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10 (20:32):
Uhhuh.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2 (20:33):
there was another one that I remember,
which is quite well, say dark,but Dark was in the title.
It's called Near Dark
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2 (20:40):
Yes.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2 (20:41):
Back.
And it had most, it had a coupleof,
squadcaster-53e9_4_03 (20:43):
Millions.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (20:44):
yes it did.
It was a film just after Alienswas made.
I think it was made in 87 and Ithink Alien's 86 maybe.
But it had.
A really interesting take onvampires and how they got around
during the day.
But when you think about it, therules, and we often talk about
this on stuff we're developingSpence, that the rules are very
(21:05):
important when you're developinga character.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10- (21:07):
Yeah.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (21:08):
And has happened has elements of
these rules have come down.
Through Irish mythology andprobably mythology from other
parts of the world, but they'veall been honed down into maybe
10 things that a vapi
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-1 (21:22):
Mm-hmm.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2 (21:24):
can't have you.
Sunlight through the heart.
Beheaded.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-20 (21:28):
and the holy water and,
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2 (21:30):
Yeah.
All that.
And crosses,
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-20 (21:33):
and interesting Chris, on that, you
know, I guess we touched uponthis in different forms and
nearly all our episodes.
Funny enough, because when youtalked about the original legend
there.
It was a dred, so it was areligious figure killed with a
religious magical weapon thatyou stick.
But you can see how Christianitythen enters the story because we
(21:53):
look at how they're, beaten anddefeated now.
holy water.
It's the cross, it's the faith,it's the holy one.
Um, so the iconography and the,the people kinda change, but the
essence is the same.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2 (22:07):
well, most definitely.
I mean, I'm gonna, I'm gonnadate myself here and sort of
refer back to there was a seasonof Dr.
Who with Sylvester McCoy, and itwas a bit of a mix of the fog
and and the vampire film.
And it was about Viking vampiresa Russian invasion in England in
1940s.
And they raised up Vikingvampires.
But one of the scenes thatinterested me in that I remember
(22:28):
a long time watching it was, oneof the Russian soldiers had to
walk through the batch ofvampires and.
He took off off his hat asRussians hammer and sickle.
And the woman said to him, no,you need a cross.
And he said, it's not theobject, it's the faith.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-20 (22:46):
Ah, there you go.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-20 (22:48):
That also happens, I believe in
seal's lot.
He holds it up and he says, no,you have to have faith.
And he's able to take the crossoff, the preacher.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-1 (22:56):
Whereas the writer character, I think,
does he not fashion across atthe two sticks?
'cause he believes it'll work.
Whereas you say the Holy Mamadidn't have the just enough
faith, the face old Burlow.
Hello.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025 (23:07):
Is it the play on faith that
defeats these, you know theholding up of the cross and,
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10- (23:12):
Yeah.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2 (23:13):
know, the holy water that burned them,
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-1 (23:15):
Mm-hmm.
chris-patterson_4_03-10 (23:15):
Because they're evil.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-20 (23:17):
The purifying light of sunlight,
it's almost godly and angelic initself.
You know, it's, I suppose everymonster has to have that way of
defeating it, and if theChristian belief can make that
tie it's fear and protection.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2 (23:43):
Well, who's your favorite?
Dracula?
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2025 (23:45):
I did love Christopher Lee.
There was a sort of feral savageness about him.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025_ (23:50):
I definitely think I was a Lee
fan.
I could go back to Bella, goback right back to Bella Zi.
who in another tidbit, wasburied in his director outfit.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10- (23:59):
We'll see.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025 (24:00):
He was indeed.
I mean, there was typecast andthen there was what happened to
him?
He was buried when he died inhis Dracula outfit.
I I think vampires are verymuch, part of our culture now.
Even though they, I say don'texist, I assume they don't
exist.
I haven't been bitten by one orseen one, but they don't exist.
But they're very much part ofour culture and nobody really
(24:21):
questions.
A Vampire TV show or a vampirefilm.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-20 (24:26):
And you don't have to spend like
most movies or stories, you'vegotta establish those rules.
They've almost been absorbedinto or global sort of
consciousness by osmosis.
You know, new series, justbarely have to even touch on the
rules.
We just know them.
Whether they're real, et cetera.
Would you then, Chris.
Think about going to that fieldin London, dairy and removing a
couple of little stones.
Would you,
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2 (24:46):
Well, I would, uh, I think I would, I
think, I think I, I, you know,there might be something else
down there that's worth money,but I can oil, probably oil or
something like that.
But it's interesting because Iwas looking online, just before
we did this, and there's a lotof people talking about,
vampires, real vampires in NewOrleans.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2 (25:04):
Hmm.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-20 (25:05):
And, and not people murdering people,
but people drinking blood.
Like it's sort of vampire clubs,that type of thing, that sort of
interview with the vampire NewOrleans, that type of on race
job.
But there is a certainsubculture where people blood
lit for better, of a betterreason, and they will take, and
(25:27):
I guess blood is a veryimportant part of the whole
legend because blood the lifethat keeps them going.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10- (25:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (25:37):
But they can never die unless
specific things happen.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2 (25:40):
This is probably more humorous than
scary.
My wife and I many years ago,Chris did like to hear that
story.
were in Florida.
We were sat at a bar and therewas a man sitting beside us and
he had slicked hair, you know,very Christopher Lee slash Ray
Rearden for old snooker fans.
And he had these headphones onand he was staring intensely.
I could see him in the mirror,so I guess that was a sign, but
(26:02):
my wife was obsessed with thisguy and she tapped him on the
shoulder and she popped theearphone out of his ear and
said, what are you listening to?
And out out of the phone camethis really weird chanting.
It wasn't music.
It was strange, strangechanting.
He turned around and he smiledand he had two fouled teeth and
he said, I have a va.
(26:23):
He put his headphone back in andstared straight ahead, and we
drank up and got back to
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (26:28):
Oh,
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10 (26:29):
cooked toot.
Sweet.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025_ (26:31):
I would imagine.
So did you, do you know thereason vampires weren't seen in
mirrors?
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-20 (26:37):
Is, this isn't a joke, is it?
No.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (26:38):
No, no, no.
It's not a joke.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2025 (26:40):
I dunno.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (26:41):
The reason they weren't seen in
original murs is because murswere backed with silver.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-20 (26:46):
Oh.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025 (26:46):
in modern times, we don't back murs
with silver, I believe.
So it would make sense that theycould see, you could see a
vampire of me.
Now,
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-202 (26:53):
So he could have been real then.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (26:56):
who knows, he didn't jump up and rip
your head off.
He didn't walk into, what is it?
The the titty twister in.
Um,
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2025 (27:03):
a regular pace.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (27:05):
and from Dust till Dawn,
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2025 (27:07):
I kept thinking that scene in Lost
Boys, you wanna could sw it inoff the sea, to the pier there.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-20 (27:12):
what always got me about that scene
in Lost Boys was you had thissort of bird noise over them.
And it was like,'cause theinteresting thing about Lost
Boys was until the end, didn'tever see them fly.
It was always the camera.
It was a bit like Jaws.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2 (27:27):
Yes.
Yes, it did.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025 (27:28):
It was always the camera coming in
and it.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-20 (27:30):
did the hard work.
Yeah.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025 (27:31):
It really did that.
It really did that work.
I mean, I, we could go, we couldtalk all night about different
types of vampires, but I thinkthat when it really comes down
to it, no matter who tries toinvent, re, or reinvent the
vampire, it always comes back tothe basics of sucking blood.
(27:52):
It always comes back to verymuch.
You know, those basics.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10- (27:57):
Yeah.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-2025_ (27:57):
I think in recent years with the
decline of religion, it has comeaway a bit from that sort of
religious icon iconography.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2025 (28:04):
I agree.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (28:05):
But most definitely I think that,
you look at the old Hammerfilms, you go back as far as
Dracula, a Bella leg, and know,even as far back as not farra to
the film, it definitely spellbounds an audience.
squadcaster-53e9_4_03-10-2025 (28:18):
A hundred percent Chris, and maybe
the last word of warning to anyof our dear listeners who happen
to be downing through how wefeel the M around, they see a
couple of unusual stones underour Hawthorne tree.
best just to leave them be.
Yeah.
chris-patterson_4_03-10-202 (28:33):
I'd say so.
chris-patterson_5_03-10-2025 (28:54):
So Spence, that was the legend of
aver talk.
I know we got a bit away at theend there with our love of film
and television, but, I mostdefinitely think if you look
into Uck, you're really gonnabelieve that vampires originated
in Ireland.
Like every good story.
squadcaster-53e9_5_03-10-2 (29:14):
Like all good storage masters,
contractual.
chris-patterson_5_03-10-2025 (29:17):
It definitely is.
And we've got a Kraken one nextweek, a kraken one.
Next week we're gonna do thehistory of the re
squadcaster-53e9_5_03-10-20 (29:25):
And I can't get much more Irish than
that.
chris-patterson_5_03-10-202 (29:27):
you cannot.
But here we are on the IrishDay, the global Irish Day, St.
Patrick's Day.
So happy St.
Patrick's Day to all ourlisteners and we will see you
next week with our sticks.
squadcaster-53e9_5_03-10-2 (29:39):
Take care folks.
Looks like your story has foundyou.
I wish It were another.
But what's meant for you, won'tgo by you.
(30:01):
I'm sorry.
Ach, now.
No need to look so scared, eh?
Enjoy the fire.
Have a sop.
Sure.
Is it all just Irish Gothic?
All just Irish Gothic.
chris-patterson_10_10-17-20 (30:28):
You can find us at iris gothic pod
on Instagram or X, or if youwant to support us, please buy
us a coffee
spence_9_10-17-2024_205215 (30:36):
and look, while you're there, give
us a follow to keep up with allthings in the Irish Gothic
Podcast.
Send us any Irish myths,legends, stories that you'd like
us to delve into next.
chris-patterson_10_10-23-20 (30:46):
The Irish Gothic Podcast was brought
to you by Causeway Pictures.
It's hosted by Chris Pattersonand Spence Wright.
And was produced by RebeccaAlcorn.
All rights reserved.
chris-patterson_10_10-17- (31:00):
Check out our other podcast, Hostage
to the Devil, which delves intothe dark world of possession and
exorcism.
You can get it wherever you getyour podcasts.
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