November 16, 2024 • 25 mins
The Irish Gothic Podcast explores the origins of Irish Folk tales. myths and legends in all their dark, fantastical glory and how these vivid yarns continue to resonate across the world to this very day.
Join Hosts Chris Patterson and Spence Wright as they fuse their love for all thing's horror with a wellspring of Irish lore.
From the terrifying figure of the Dullahan to the origins of Halloween itself, if it’s a yarn you’re after, pull up a chair and let ‘Irish Gothic’ fill your ears.
In today's episode, we travel down through the hexagonal stoned landscape of County Antrim's Giant's Causeway. Made up of some 40,000 massive black basalt columns sticking out of the sea, this dramatic sight has inspired legends of giants striding over the sea to Scotland. In this episode, Chris and Spence discuss the legendary Finn McCool, and unearth some lesser known giants from this land.
Hosts: Chris Patterson & Spence Wright
Producer: Rebecca Alcorn
Production Company: Causeway Pictures
Bibliography:
Book your visit to the Giant’s Causeway here! - https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/visit/northern-ireland/giants-causeway
Giants, Dwarfs and Other Oddities, by C. J. S. Thompson (1989)
Fairy Legends and Traditions of The South of Ireland, by T. Crofton Crocker (1844)
Follow us:
Instagram: @irishgothicpod
X: @irishgothicpod
Website: https://irishgothicpod.buzzsprout.com
Show your support for the podcast at: buymeacoffee.com/irishgothicpod
Checkout our other podcast - Hostage to the Devil, real life stories of exorcism and possession. Wherever you get your podcasts.
Causeway Pictures © All rights reserved
www.causewaypictures.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:17):
I know all the folks round thesearts and parts.
Can't say I know you.
Leastways.
Not yet.
But I dare say I know whatyou'll be wanting.
Some of the crack, maybe.
How we yarn with your sup, isit?
(00:39):
No harm in that.
Come on over.
Warm yourself, hmm?
I'll warn you though.
If it's the old Begara andBlarney shenanigans you're
after, you'll not hear them fromme.
Well, if such, like, pleasesyou, you sit on.
(01:00):
I'll fill your ears.
And see what story is meant foryou.
On this dark old night.
chris-patterson_2_10-23-202 (01:24):
I'm Chris
spencey-guest437_2_10-23-20 (01:25):
I'm Spence
chris-patterson_2_10-23-202 (01:26):
And this is the Irish Gothic
Podcast.
chris-patterson_2_11-05-2024 (01:38):
we talk about what people around
here like to call the 8th wonderof the world.
The Giant's Causeway.
Was it created by ancientvolcanic eruptions?
Or by a giant called Finmacule?
Let's find out.
chris-patterson_4_11-05-202 (02:04):
So, Spence, we have come to
somewhere that at least I knowI've been.
Have you been there?
spence-guest252_4_11-05-202 (02:08):
Oh, absolutely, been there as a
child, you know, nestled theNorth Antrim coast, if you've
any people visiting you alwaysgo to the causeway,
chris-patterson_4_11-05-2024_ (02:15):
I never went as a child, but as I
got older and got married.
People would come over to visitus and, of course, I'd end up in
the Giant's Causeway or in ourother line of work we'd end up
working in the Giant's Causeway.
so I got to see it mostly as anadult, As they say the eighth
wonder of the world, itdefinitely is a very interesting
(02:36):
place, when you first come andyou first see the remains of
what this causeway was.
spence-guest252_4_11-05-2 (02:41):
100%.
I think our record was threeconsecutive weekends visiting
the causeway with people whowere overvisiting.
Now, I would never say I wouldget bored of the place, but I
did come close, but it's such adramatic, uh,
chris-patterson_4_11-05-202 (02:54):
The whole coastline is beautiful,
the north coast of NorthernIreland, or is definitely a
fantastic place to visit.
I was just reading a quote therefrom a writer called Samuel
Johnson, and he was once asked,Is not the Giant's Causeway
worth seeing?
To which he replied, worthseeing, yes, but not worth going
to see
spence-guest252_4_11-05- (03:15):
didn't see that on any posters!
chris-patterson_4_11-05-202 (03:17):
No, no, I didn't see that, but, it's
definitely one, of if not thenumber one place to visit in
Northern Ireland.
spence-guest252_4_11-05-2024 (03:24):
So where do you fall, Chris, on how
it was created?
definitely the two disparateversions of how it came about.
The scientific one, and the Taleof Giants.
don't know which one I want itto be, but what do you reckon?
chris-patterson_4_11-05-2 (03:35):
Well, I'm thinking, it was formed 50
to 60 million years ago and wasa result of successive lava
flows.
rolling towards the sea and onceit got to the sea of course it
cooled down and it formed thesehexagon shaped columns.
Hundreds of them they vary insize from 15 to 20 inches in
(03:56):
diameter and they measure up to82 feet, some of them 25 meters.
They're on the cliff sides,they're on the causeway.
it's Definitely a veryinteresting geological site, and
there's very few other places inthe world that look like that
spence-guest252_4_11-05-2024 (04:10):
So true, man.
I mean, you're standing on thosestones, and the waves are
spraying up around you, andyou've got those columns of
rock, the organs, in thebackground.
You can imagine yourself almostbeing in one of those dinosaur
movies.
It's got that.
Ancient feel about it.
Despite the tourist, despite thebus that takes you up and down
the causeway, it still feelslike a step back in time.
A place where you can understandlegends that weren't maybe quite
(04:34):
so scientific to spring out of.
chris-patterson_4_11-05-2 (04:35):
Well, the interesting thing I've
always found, and I don't knowabout you, is that It always
seems to have its own ecosystemwhere it could be 25 degrees at
the top and 10 degrees at thebottom, Or it could be bone dry
and raining on the causeway.
It has its own little weathersystem down there.
spence-guest252_4_11-05-20 (04:54):
Very true.
Very true.
So what about that more ARIESGOTHIC ESK version of how the
Causeway came around
chris-patterson_4_11-05-202 (05:01):
Oh, you mean the truth.
spence-guest252_4_11-05-202 (05:02):
THE TRUTH, HA HA HA HA
chris-patterson_4_11- (05:23):
obviously before all the geological stuff
came about, the locals.
They decided to put it down tothe most well known giant
probably in Ireland, if not theworld, Finn McCool.
story was first documented byIrish monks in a medieval
period, but could be much older.
According to the tale, FinnMcCool created the causeway so
(05:45):
that he could reach out toScotland and fight his rival,
the Scottish giant.
Benidona.
Finn saw Benidona in thedistance and realised he was
much bigger than he'd expectedwhat did he do, Spence?
He ran away.
He ran the whole way back alongthe causeway because Benidona
was three times the size of him.
He lost a boot along the way Andhe ran back to his wife, Una.
(06:09):
However, Benidonna followed himacross the crossway to bring the
fight to Finn.
House, he knocked the door anddemanded a fight.
Una told Finn to pretend to beasleep and covered him with a
blanket.
She told bead Donna that Finnwas out and the sleeping Finn
(06:30):
was their only child.
Ocean.
Bead.
Donna took one look at theenormous baby and he feared the
size of the father must be.
So he fled back to Scotland,tearing up the causeway as he
went.
So that Finn could not followhim back, leaving only its
remnants at the giant's Causewayin Northern Ireland and Fingal's
Cave in the Scottish Isle ofStaffa.
spence-guest252_4_11-05-2 (06:52):
don't you just WANT that to be true.
that Wee twist with the baby,that clever move that Oshie
makes, it's brilliant, I thinkabout the landscape more now,
there's the giant's boot, It'sthere.
There's a giant organ, the giantheart, which is all part of the
geology.
Part of the saw that was thrownfell in with water and became
more Loch Nay.
It's similar to our IT earlierpodcasts.
People looking at the geographyof the land and coming up with
(07:13):
these wonderful stories aroundthese things
chris-patterson_4_11-05-202 (07:16):
You could imagine going down there,
I don't know, 7th century, notknowing how this became what it
was.
Because it's awesome site whenyou see it.
We'll put pictures up on oursocial media when you go to see
it now there's a road down toit, there's obviously a load of
tourists, but back then therewas no road, there was just this
awesome thing that they couldn'tfind anywhere else in Ireland.
(07:38):
So, no wonder myths and legends,grew up around
spence-guest252_4_11-05-2024 (07:52):
To be honest, as a young child
going to the causeway, I thoughtFinn McCool was the one and only
giant.
Femme Cooke gets all theattention.
If we take a look at then theprincipal character, Of the
story, of the fable, in manyways.
spence-guest514_5_11-05-2024 (08:03):
He embodies the character of the
landscape.
Has to be a giant story, it hasto be a big story, mythological.
And whilst Una, in many ways,could be seen as the heroine of
the piece, the person who showsintelligence and wit and copes
under pressure, Femmikulabsolutely seems to get all the
plaudits.
He's the famous giant.
It did come as a surprise to me,Chris, you know, when I was
(08:24):
researching the causeway andthen generally broadening that
out, just how many giants thereare across Irish mythology and
maybe the reason for them.
In the fairy tales of the Irishpeasantry, 1888, it was noted
that the pagan gods of Irelandgrew smaller and smaller in the
popular imagination until theyturned into the fairies, almost
(08:45):
shrinking down their importancein size and everything.
Whereas, The heroes of a popularimagination, they became bigger.
They became giants.
So, giants are very muchentwined with mythology of
Ireland.
Pre Christian stories about thecauseway suggest that it may
even have got its name becauseof the Fomorians, known as
(09:05):
giants.
an incredibly fearsome race fromIrish mythology.
Very H.
P.
Lovecraft in nature, they are.
They are extremely, extremelydark and interesting race.
the theory is that thetranslation of the causeway
could be the stepping stones ofthe Fomorian.
So, steeped in history ofgiants.
chris-patterson_5_11-05-202 (09:25):
You were talking there about When
the heroes got bigger the heroesweren't necessarily larger in
stature but they had certainsupernatural powers.
somebody we've mentioned before,Kil'Kallen.
Kil'Kallen was seen as the IrishAchilles from the Troy stories.
He was considered a demigod,which in all terms meant he was
(09:47):
human but he had supernaturalpowers.
The men of Ulster wereApparently, generally, tall.
Cucullum was short, with abulbous nose and wild, red hair,
formed into a sort of haloaround his head.
he goes into battle, hetransformed himself into a giant
rage monster.
(10:07):
And it wasn't even justmetaphorical.
Colin literally, physicallytransformed into a monster.
spence-guest514_5_11-05-20 (10:15):
it's got that Norse feel and myths
of, Berserkers, when they almosttransformed, but as you say with
C'thun, it was an actualtransformation, into this other
being that could slay wholearmies, you know the darker
version of Giants, certainly thedarker version of C'thun.
chris-patterson_5_11-05-2 (10:30):
Well, that's it.
I mean, to quote OsborneMcKnight, He grows to nine feet
tall.
Blood spurts from his forehead.
One of his eyes bulges out fromits socket.
His head can turn 360 degrees,like the head of an owl.
Once he enters the war spasm, hecannot be defeated.
(10:51):
Nine foot tall, that sounds likegiants to me.
spence-guest514_5_11-05-20 (11:09):
Finn McCool is actually starting to
look rather tame.
another giant, and I may butcherthe pronunciation here, but
Iliac was another giant.
Now, like Finn McCool, he, andmany giants it seems, he was one
to tear up clumps of bouldersand landscape and hurl them
here, there, hither and yon.
That's a bit of a motif thatruns through lots of giants, but
this guy Elec was differentagain and had that sort of
(11:31):
darker element that you'retalking about, Chris.
He used to squish people todeath bare hands.
When these weapons, thesecobbles and boulders that he
threw at people when they ranout, When these weapons failed
him, he spent his rage on theman that was nearest him, of the
men of Arran, the men ofIreland, and bruised him
grievously between his forearmsand his sides and the palms of
his hand, until he made a marrowmass of him, of flesh and bones
(11:54):
and sinews and skin.
It's almost got that Fee FiveFoam rhythm to it, that story
chris-patterson_5_11-05-20 (12:00):
it's all about fear.
They weren't just male giantseither.
Look at Grána, the Irishgiantess,
chris-patterson_7_11-05-2024 (12:18):
to borrow from C.
J.
S.
Thomson's Giants, Dwarfs andOther Oddities
chris-patterson_6_11-05- (12:23):
Garana lived at the rock of
Carragagunnal, or Rock of theCandle.
The candle originated with talesof Garana lighting a candle at
night which she used to lure hervictims to their demise.
In Thompson's Reckoning, thefemale giant lay in wait in her
cavern, presumably so she couldthen jump out and attack her
(12:43):
victims.
But according to T.
Crofton Crocker, Fairy legendsand traditions of the South of
Ireland,
chris-patterson_7_11-05-2024 (12:49):
It is specified that Granny used an
enchanted candle to curse thosewho looked upon the flame.
It was actually this curse thatled to the person's demise.
And I quote, Death was hersport.
Like an angler with his rod, thehag would toil and watch, nor
think it labour, that the deathof a victim rewarded her vigils.
(13:13):
Every evening did she light anenchanted candle upon the rock.
And whoever looked upon it diedbefore the next morning's sun.
Numberless were the victims overwhom Garana rejoiced.
One after another had seen thelight and their death was the
consequence.
Come the country round to bedesolate, And Carragagunnel, the
(13:37):
Rock of the Candle, By itsdreaded name.
spence-guest99_9_11-05-202 (13:51):
Even in this story of our friend,
Finn McCool makes an appearance.
Finn McCool was the boss, or theleader, of a brave warrior by
the name of Regan.
And Finn McCool, as it waswritten by Croker, said that
Finn lifted up his voice andcommanded that the fatal candle
of the High Grana was to beextinguished and he despised
poor old Regan to do the job forhim.
(14:13):
But he still did it.
He didn't send him alone, hegave him a cap thrice charmed,
basically an enchanted hat, amagical hat to help him take on
this, giant.
So when I first read that Ithought, what good's a hat gonna
be?
giants are always one stepahead.
chris-patterson_9_11-05-20 (14:28):
They always are.
There's always something about amagical hat.
spence-guest99_9_11-05-2024 (14:31):
So, as it turns out, the hat was a
stroke of genius because what itmeant was this thrice charmed
cap, as Reagan approached therock and approached the giant
grana, every time the granaalmost caught sight of him, the
hat dropped down and coveredReagan's eyes,
spence-guest777_8_11-05-2024 (14:47):
So again, we're seeing those totems
of protection and magic creepinginto the story.
So Regan was sent off with thisenchanted hat to take on Granna
the Hague and extinguish herevil flame.
Regan knew that if he caught anyglimpse of the candle, he
himself would be a dead man,brave warrior or not.
But luckily for him, thisenchanted cap was called the Cap
(15:08):
Thrice Charmed.
And what actually happened was,was that every time Regan got
closer and was in danger ofbeing spotted and looking upon
the face of Grandma, the hatwould dip over his eyes and
therefore blocking her starefrom him.
Almost like, you know, notseeing the stare of the Medusa.
chris-patterson_8_11-05-20 (15:24):
that was, what I was just thinking
there, the Medusa, you know,turn you to stone scenario.
spence-guest777_8_1 (15:28):
absolutely, we'll not go off on a tangent
just yet, but there's loads ofstuff on, Greek mythology,
giants it all ties in.
So anyway, by that method,Regan.
He was able to scale the rock,and when Granagh's back was
turned, Regan grabbed thecandle, tossed it into the river
Shannon.
Having tossed the candle river,
spence-guest99_9_11-05-2024_ (15:48):
He couldn't resist though, having a
little peep at Grana Now that itwas safe to do so, now that the
candle was gone,
spence-guest777_8_11-05- (15:54):
Before she disappeared altogether,
spence-guest99_9_11-05-20 (15:55):
Regan had a look at her and what he
describes is rather frightening.
spence-guest777_8_11-05 (15:59):
Another fearsome, fearsome image.
She was gigantic in size, itsays.
Frightful in appearance.
Her eyebrows grew into eachother with a grim curve.
And beneath their mattedbristles, deeply sunk in her
head, were two small grey eyes.
And, Darneth forth baneful looksof evil, and from her deeply
wrinkled forehead issued forth ahook's beak, dividing two
(16:19):
shriveled cheeks, her skinnylips curled with a cruel,
malignant expression, herprominent chin stullet with
bunches of grisly hair.
And when he beheld this enragedhag, with outstretched arms,
prepared to seize and warn himafter her gandle, Regan
instantly bound it westward fromthe rock, into the wild and
wondrous spring.
So.
(16:40):
Regan got away, the castle wasdestroyed, and Grala, never seen
again, eh?
chris-patterson_8_11-05-2024 (16:45):
is some image, Spence.
That is some image.
I, I, I think I went out withher in the 90s.
spence-guest99_9_11-0 (17:02):
fantastic story, Grizzly, and as you
mentioned during that, Crystal,those references, those
callbacks to Greek mythology areprobably not by accident.
chris-patterson_9_11-05-2024_ (17:12):
I wouldn't have thought so.
chris-patterson_8_11-05 (17:14):
looking at those Sinbad movies with the
Cyclops and various otherfamous, creatures, the Minotaur
and things like that.
There are various versions ofGiants globally of course We all
know that those versions ofGiants Obviously did come from
Ireland
spence-guest99_9_11-05-2 (17:29):
Whilst we probably can confidently lay
claim to Fimbukul being one ofthe coolest giants, Greeks will
probably claim that they werethere first.
They say that even the wordgiant comes from the Greek
gigantis, meaning earth born.
And again, there's the mentionof the word earth because of a
theory about why giants exist atall.
And this certainly applies tothe causeway in Fimbukul.
(17:51):
It's trying to make sense of alandscape.
around us.
And, but there are otherpsychological reasons as well,,
why we as human beings perhaps,,create or gravitate towards
these stories of giants.
And often, the giant serves assymbols of strength and chaos,
and also of the unknown.
So as we spoke about Before,Chris, and this theme does come
(18:15):
up again, it does seem to beabout fear and protection.
What are the things that areunknown?
What are the things we're afraidof?
We're at the mercy of weather,and disease, and pestilence, and
we're trying to make sense ofall these things, giving it a
form, even a giant, makes somekind of sense.
And it always comes with thatmagic weapon.
In this case, it was the thricecharmed cap.
chris-patterson_8_11-05-2024_ (18:35):
I don't want to delve into it too
deeply in this podcast, butthere's also a place called High
Brazil where, legend has it, thegiants, the fairies, they all
went to live when Christianitytook over Ireland, a hidden
island off the coast of Galway.
So they could still be outthere, the giants.
spence-guest777_8_11-05- (18:53):
that's right, and from memory the
island appeared on old seafaringmaps, as a place that seafarers
were aware of, but then it cameand went, that's certainly worth
a podcast cross.
chris-patterson_8_11 (19:06):
definitely is
chris-patterson_9_11-05 (19:22):
Earlier you said Spence giants getting
smaller and heroes gettingbigger.
But I definitely think it'sinteresting that,, As
Christianity took over Ireland,the myths and legends got
smaller.
It's almost like they werecondensed.
The leprechauns came condensedinto these small, little green
men with a top hat.
Which, by legend standards, isnot true.
(19:43):
It's almost like Christianity.
The bigger it got, the smallerthe belief in these old ways
got, which meant the smaller thecreatures got.
spence-guest99_9_11-05-202 (19:55):
It's almost like a Christian idea and
almost like a rebranding and away of, um, taking these beliefs
which meant a lot to the peopleand almost trivializing them
squeeze those leprechaun mythstill they literally lay fit on a
cereal package.
You know, that's where it began.
That's where that journey, ofalmost making them comedic
that's where it began.
chris-patterson_9_11-05-202 (20:28):
You can't tonight take yourself down
to Giant's Causeway, There hasbeen a number of things filmed
of course, we'll put somephotographs and stuff up on our
socials, but, If you really wantto see it, I believe it appears
in an episode of Game ofThrones.
It also appears in a film thatwas made, I think in 2014,
called Dracula Untold.
A film that I was involved incalled Hellboy 2 The Golden
(20:51):
Army.
Which we flew helicopters overit for.
So, there's definitely a goodview of it.
Way back when you're standingthere amongst the druids trying
to work out how this placebecame what it was.
these hexagon shaped stones,how, you know, did God himself
come down and chip these stonesout?
spence-guest99_9_11-05-2 (21:09):
Making sense of the landscape, isn't
it?
Trying to make sense of it.
And that particular landscapebeing so striking, so unusual,
it could only have given birthto a fantastical, brilliant
story, which still resonatestoday, like the story of Finn
McCool.
It had to be big, didn't it?
It had to be a larger than lifestory to go with that landscape.
chris-patterson_9_11-05-2024 (21:27):
to be honest, to me, it's the
truth.
It has to be the truth.
I mean, who's ever heard ofvolcanoes?
spence-guest99_9_11-05-202 (21:32):
Yes, yes.
I must say, regardless of thegeology of it,, maybe a bit of
both is true, Chris.
Maybe a bit of both is true.
chris-patterson_9_11-05-2 (21:40):
Maybe a bit of both.
And also, just to go back onyour story, you said earlier on
that Finn had lifted a handfulof land and thrown it at
Scotland, just to see if hecould get the other giant.
And he wasn't quite strongenough, so it never made
Scotland.
So of course, as you said, thebig hole became Lough Neagh in
the centre of Northern Ireland.
If you look at any maps you'llsee it.
But that bit of land that landedin the sea, that later became
(22:04):
the Isle of Man.
So McCool created the Isle ofMan out of a slight disagreement
with some Scottish people.
spence-guest99_9_11-05-2024_1 (22:13):
I suppose that's true, Chris, in
fiction, you know, you mentionedsort of contemporary movies that
have used the causeway, but Isuppose Giants generally, like
the BFG, Jack and the Beanstalk,Gulliver's Travels, this idea of
dragons, I think they're just,they're powerful symbols,
chris-patterson_9_11-05- (22:27):
wasn't it if you're in Belfast, was it
Black Mountain that is shapedlike a a large nose
spence-guest99_9_11- (22:32):
Napoleon's nose, they call it, I think,
chris-patterson_9_11-05-2024 (22:34):
It was apparently the, inspiration
for the giant, in Gulliver'sTravels, which is written by
Jonathan Swift.
When he saw it one day hethought it looked like a large
nose.
We have rechristened itNapoleon's nose, right enough.
But if you're ever in Belfastand you look up you'll see this
protruding black cliffside thatsort of does look, you squint,
(22:57):
like a giant's nose.
spence-guest99_9_11-05-20 (22:58):
Yeah, it's true, it's true, that's
absolutely true.
more you think about thesubject, the more you start to
see, I'm starting to see giantseverywhere.
I'm thinking that even like acharacter, you were talking
about the Gjallarhorn and his,his war spasm.
That's not a million miles fromthe Hulk.
chris-patterson_9_11-05-202 (23:12):
No, or, a Tasmanian devil in
cartoons.
spence-guest99_9_11-05-202 (23:16):
They are, we could probably just list
giants all night.
But I suppose the reason forthat is that they mean more they
resonate to us as human beings.
They talk about the humancondition, symbols of strength,
symbols of struggle.
They reflect our fears, ouraspirations.
Um, right down to our very ownhockey team.
(23:36):
The Belfast Giants.
You know, Giants are very muchpart and partial life here,
certainly in the north ofIreland, across Ireland as a
whole.
spence-guest414_10_11-05-20 (23:55):
So, by their very nature, when we
start talking about Giants,we're never going to fit them
all into one podcast, Chris.
chris-patterson_10_11-05-20 (24:00):
No, I don't think So,
spence-guest414_10_11-05-20 (24:01):
So, if you want to find out any more
about the Giants Causeway, orabout Giants and some of the
topics and things we've talkedabout in tonight's podcast,
check out our show notes.
chris-patterson_10_10-17-20 (24:10):
You can find us at iris gothic pod
on Instagram or X, or if youwant to support us, please buy
us a coffee
spence_9_10-17-2024_205215 (24:18):
and look, while you're there, give
us a follow to keep up with allthings in the Irish Gothic
Podcast.
Send us any Irish myths,legends, stories that you'd like
us to delve into next.
chris-patterson_10_11-05-20 (24:27):
And please come back next week where
we're going to face one of thebiggins, St.
Patrick.
Looks like your story has foundyou.
I wish It were another.
But what's meant for you, won'tgo by you.
(24:53):
I'm sorry.
Ach, now.
No need to look so scared, eh?
Enjoy the fire.
Have a sop.
Sure.
Is it all just Irish Gothic?
All just Irish Gothic.
chris-patterson_10_10-23-20 (25:21):
The Irish Gothic Podcast was brought
to you by Causeway Pictures.
It's hosted by Chris Pattersonand Spence Wright.
And was produced by RebeccaAlcorn.
All rights reserved.
chris-patterson_10_10-17- (25:36):
Check out our other podcast, Hostage
to the Devil, which delves intothe dark world of possession and
exorcism.
You can get it wherever you getyour podcasts.
I know all the folks round thesearts and parts.
Can't say I know you.
Leastways.
Not yet.
But I dare say I know whatyou'll be wanting.
Some of the crack, maybe.
How we yarn with your sup, isit?
(00:39):
No harm in that.
Come on over.
Warm yourself, hmm?
I'll warn you though.
If it's the old Begara andBlarney shenanigans you're
after, you'll not hear them fromme.
Well, if such, like, pleasesyou, you sit on.
(01:00):
I'll fill your ears.
And see what story is meant foryou.
On this dark old night.
chris-patterson_2_10-23-202 (01:24):
I'm Chris
spencey-guest437_2_10-23-20 (01:25):
I'm Spence
chris-patterson_2_10-23-202 (01:26):
And this is the Irish Gothic
Podcast.
chris-patterson_2_11-05-2024 (01:38):
we talk about what people around
here like to call the 8th wonderof the world.
The Giant's Causeway.
Was it created by ancientvolcanic eruptions?
Or by a giant called Finmacule?
Let's find out.
chris-patterson_4_11-05-202 (02:04):
So, Spence, we have come to
somewhere that at least I knowI've been.
Have you been there?
spence-guest252_4_11-05-202 (02:08):
Oh, absolutely, been there as a
child, you know, nestled theNorth Antrim coast, if you've
any people visiting you alwaysgo to the causeway,
chris-patterson_4_11-05-2024_ (02:15):
I never went as a child, but as I
got older and got married.
People would come over to visitus and, of course, I'd end up in
the Giant's Causeway or in ourother line of work we'd end up
working in the Giant's Causeway.
so I got to see it mostly as anadult, As they say the eighth
wonder of the world, itdefinitely is a very interesting
(02:36):
place, when you first come andyou first see the remains of
what this causeway was.
spence-guest252_4_11-05-2 (02:41):
100%.
I think our record was threeconsecutive weekends visiting
the causeway with people whowere overvisiting.
Now, I would never say I wouldget bored of the place, but I
did come close, but it's such adramatic, uh,
chris-patterson_4_11-05-202 (02:54):
The whole coastline is beautiful,
the north coast of NorthernIreland, or is definitely a
fantastic place to visit.
I was just reading a quote therefrom a writer called Samuel
Johnson, and he was once asked,Is not the Giant's Causeway
worth seeing?
To which he replied, worthseeing, yes, but not worth going
to see
spence-guest252_4_11-05- (03:15):
didn't see that on any posters!
chris-patterson_4_11-05-202 (03:17):
No, no, I didn't see that, but, it's
definitely one, of if not thenumber one place to visit in
Northern Ireland.
spence-guest252_4_11-05-2024 (03:24):
So where do you fall, Chris, on how
it was created?
definitely the two disparateversions of how it came about.
The scientific one, and the Taleof Giants.
don't know which one I want itto be, but what do you reckon?
chris-patterson_4_11-05-2 (03:35):
Well, I'm thinking, it was formed 50
to 60 million years ago and wasa result of successive lava
flows.
rolling towards the sea and onceit got to the sea of course it
cooled down and it formed thesehexagon shaped columns.
Hundreds of them they vary insize from 15 to 20 inches in
(03:56):
diameter and they measure up to82 feet, some of them 25 meters.
They're on the cliff sides,they're on the causeway.
it's Definitely a veryinteresting geological site, and
there's very few other places inthe world that look like that
spence-guest252_4_11-05-2024 (04:10):
So true, man.
I mean, you're standing on thosestones, and the waves are
spraying up around you, andyou've got those columns of
rock, the organs, in thebackground.
You can imagine yourself almostbeing in one of those dinosaur
movies.
It's got that.
Ancient feel about it.
Despite the tourist, despite thebus that takes you up and down
the causeway, it still feelslike a step back in time.
A place where you can understandlegends that weren't maybe quite
(04:34):
so scientific to spring out of.
chris-patterson_4_11-05-2 (04:35):
Well, the interesting thing I've
always found, and I don't knowabout you, is that It always
seems to have its own ecosystemwhere it could be 25 degrees at
the top and 10 degrees at thebottom, Or it could be bone dry
and raining on the causeway.
It has its own little weathersystem down there.
spence-guest252_4_11-05-20 (04:54):
Very true.
Very true.
So what about that more ARIESGOTHIC ESK version of how the
Causeway came around
chris-patterson_4_11-05-202 (05:01):
Oh, you mean the truth.
spence-guest252_4_11-05-202 (05:02):
THE TRUTH, HA HA HA HA
chris-patterson_4_11- (05:23):
obviously before all the geological stuff
came about, the locals.
They decided to put it down tothe most well known giant
probably in Ireland, if not theworld, Finn McCool.
story was first documented byIrish monks in a medieval
period, but could be much older.
According to the tale, FinnMcCool created the causeway so
(05:45):
that he could reach out toScotland and fight his rival,
the Scottish giant.
Benidona.
Finn saw Benidona in thedistance and realised he was
much bigger than he'd expectedwhat did he do, Spence?
He ran away.
He ran the whole way back alongthe causeway because Benidona
was three times the size of him.
He lost a boot along the way Andhe ran back to his wife, Una.
(06:09):
However, Benidonna followed himacross the crossway to bring the
fight to Finn.
House, he knocked the door anddemanded a fight.
Una told Finn to pretend to beasleep and covered him with a
blanket.
She told bead Donna that Finnwas out and the sleeping Finn
(06:30):
was their only child.
Ocean.
Bead.
Donna took one look at theenormous baby and he feared the
size of the father must be.
So he fled back to Scotland,tearing up the causeway as he
went.
So that Finn could not followhim back, leaving only its
remnants at the giant's Causewayin Northern Ireland and Fingal's
Cave in the Scottish Isle ofStaffa.
spence-guest252_4_11-05-2 (06:52):
don't you just WANT that to be true.
that Wee twist with the baby,that clever move that Oshie
makes, it's brilliant, I thinkabout the landscape more now,
there's the giant's boot, It'sthere.
There's a giant organ, the giantheart, which is all part of the
geology.
Part of the saw that was thrownfell in with water and became
more Loch Nay.
It's similar to our IT earlierpodcasts.
People looking at the geographyof the land and coming up with
(07:13):
these wonderful stories aroundthese things
chris-patterson_4_11-05-202 (07:16):
You could imagine going down there,
I don't know, 7th century, notknowing how this became what it
was.
Because it's awesome site whenyou see it.
We'll put pictures up on oursocial media when you go to see
it now there's a road down toit, there's obviously a load of
tourists, but back then therewas no road, there was just this
awesome thing that they couldn'tfind anywhere else in Ireland.
(07:38):
So, no wonder myths and legends,grew up around
spence-guest252_4_11-05-2024 (07:52):
To be honest, as a young child
going to the causeway, I thoughtFinn McCool was the one and only
giant.
Femme Cooke gets all theattention.
If we take a look at then theprincipal character, Of the
story, of the fable, in manyways.
spence-guest514_5_11-05-2024 (08:03):
He embodies the character of the
landscape.
Has to be a giant story, it hasto be a big story, mythological.
And whilst Una, in many ways,could be seen as the heroine of
the piece, the person who showsintelligence and wit and copes
under pressure, Femmikulabsolutely seems to get all the
plaudits.
He's the famous giant.
It did come as a surprise to me,Chris, you know, when I was
(08:24):
researching the causeway andthen generally broadening that
out, just how many giants thereare across Irish mythology and
maybe the reason for them.
In the fairy tales of the Irishpeasantry, 1888, it was noted
that the pagan gods of Irelandgrew smaller and smaller in the
popular imagination until theyturned into the fairies, almost
(08:45):
shrinking down their importancein size and everything.
Whereas, The heroes of a popularimagination, they became bigger.
They became giants.
So, giants are very muchentwined with mythology of
Ireland.
Pre Christian stories about thecauseway suggest that it may
even have got its name becauseof the Fomorians, known as
(09:05):
giants.
an incredibly fearsome race fromIrish mythology.
Very H.
P.
Lovecraft in nature, they are.
They are extremely, extremelydark and interesting race.
the theory is that thetranslation of the causeway
could be the stepping stones ofthe Fomorian.
So, steeped in history ofgiants.
chris-patterson_5_11-05-202 (09:25):
You were talking there about When
the heroes got bigger the heroesweren't necessarily larger in
stature but they had certainsupernatural powers.
somebody we've mentioned before,Kil'Kallen.
Kil'Kallen was seen as the IrishAchilles from the Troy stories.
He was considered a demigod,which in all terms meant he was
(09:47):
human but he had supernaturalpowers.
The men of Ulster wereApparently, generally, tall.
Cucullum was short, with abulbous nose and wild, red hair,
formed into a sort of haloaround his head.
he goes into battle, hetransformed himself into a giant
rage monster.
(10:07):
And it wasn't even justmetaphorical.
Colin literally, physicallytransformed into a monster.
spence-guest514_5_11-05-20 (10:15):
it's got that Norse feel and myths
of, Berserkers, when they almosttransformed, but as you say with
C'thun, it was an actualtransformation, into this other
being that could slay wholearmies, you know the darker
version of Giants, certainly thedarker version of C'thun.
chris-patterson_5_11-05-2 (10:30):
Well, that's it.
I mean, to quote OsborneMcKnight, He grows to nine feet
tall.
Blood spurts from his forehead.
One of his eyes bulges out fromits socket.
His head can turn 360 degrees,like the head of an owl.
Once he enters the war spasm, hecannot be defeated.
(10:51):
Nine foot tall, that sounds likegiants to me.
spence-guest514_5_11-05-20 (11:09):
Finn McCool is actually starting to
look rather tame.
another giant, and I may butcherthe pronunciation here, but
Iliac was another giant.
Now, like Finn McCool, he, andmany giants it seems, he was one
to tear up clumps of bouldersand landscape and hurl them
here, there, hither and yon.
That's a bit of a motif thatruns through lots of giants, but
this guy Elec was differentagain and had that sort of
(11:31):
darker element that you'retalking about, Chris.
He used to squish people todeath bare hands.
When these weapons, thesecobbles and boulders that he
threw at people when they ranout, When these weapons failed
him, he spent his rage on theman that was nearest him, of the
men of Arran, the men ofIreland, and bruised him
grievously between his forearmsand his sides and the palms of
his hand, until he made a marrowmass of him, of flesh and bones
(11:54):
and sinews and skin.
It's almost got that Fee FiveFoam rhythm to it, that story
chris-patterson_5_11-05-20 (12:00):
it's all about fear.
They weren't just male giantseither.
Look at Grána, the Irishgiantess,
chris-patterson_7_11-05-2024 (12:18):
to borrow from C.
J.
S.
Thomson's Giants, Dwarfs andOther Oddities
chris-patterson_6_11-05- (12:23):
Garana lived at the rock of
Carragagunnal, or Rock of theCandle.
The candle originated with talesof Garana lighting a candle at
night which she used to lure hervictims to their demise.
In Thompson's Reckoning, thefemale giant lay in wait in her
cavern, presumably so she couldthen jump out and attack her
(12:43):
victims.
But according to T.
Crofton Crocker, Fairy legendsand traditions of the South of
Ireland,
chris-patterson_7_11-05-2024 (12:49):
It is specified that Granny used an
enchanted candle to curse thosewho looked upon the flame.
It was actually this curse thatled to the person's demise.
And I quote, Death was hersport.
Like an angler with his rod, thehag would toil and watch, nor
think it labour, that the deathof a victim rewarded her vigils.
(13:13):
Every evening did she light anenchanted candle upon the rock.
And whoever looked upon it diedbefore the next morning's sun.
Numberless were the victims overwhom Garana rejoiced.
One after another had seen thelight and their death was the
consequence.
Come the country round to bedesolate, And Carragagunnel, the
(13:37):
Rock of the Candle, By itsdreaded name.
spence-guest99_9_11-05-202 (13:51):
Even in this story of our friend,
Finn McCool makes an appearance.
Finn McCool was the boss, or theleader, of a brave warrior by
the name of Regan.
And Finn McCool, as it waswritten by Croker, said that
Finn lifted up his voice andcommanded that the fatal candle
of the High Grana was to beextinguished and he despised
poor old Regan to do the job forhim.
(14:13):
But he still did it.
He didn't send him alone, hegave him a cap thrice charmed,
basically an enchanted hat, amagical hat to help him take on
this, giant.
So when I first read that Ithought, what good's a hat gonna
be?
giants are always one stepahead.
chris-patterson_9_11-05-20 (14:28):
They always are.
There's always something about amagical hat.
spence-guest99_9_11-05-2024 (14:31):
So, as it turns out, the hat was a
stroke of genius because what itmeant was this thrice charmed
cap, as Reagan approached therock and approached the giant
grana, every time the granaalmost caught sight of him, the
hat dropped down and coveredReagan's eyes,
spence-guest777_8_11-05-2024 (14:47):
So again, we're seeing those totems
of protection and magic creepinginto the story.
So Regan was sent off with thisenchanted hat to take on Granna
the Hague and extinguish herevil flame.
Regan knew that if he caught anyglimpse of the candle, he
himself would be a dead man,brave warrior or not.
But luckily for him, thisenchanted cap was called the Cap
(15:08):
Thrice Charmed.
And what actually happened was,was that every time Regan got
closer and was in danger ofbeing spotted and looking upon
the face of Grandma, the hatwould dip over his eyes and
therefore blocking her starefrom him.
Almost like, you know, notseeing the stare of the Medusa.
chris-patterson_8_11-05-20 (15:24):
that was, what I was just thinking
there, the Medusa, you know,turn you to stone scenario.
spence-guest777_8_1 (15:28):
absolutely, we'll not go off on a tangent
just yet, but there's loads ofstuff on, Greek mythology,
giants it all ties in.
So anyway, by that method,Regan.
He was able to scale the rock,and when Granagh's back was
turned, Regan grabbed thecandle, tossed it into the river
Shannon.
Having tossed the candle river,
spence-guest99_9_11-05-2024_ (15:48):
He couldn't resist though, having a
little peep at Grana Now that itwas safe to do so, now that the
candle was gone,
spence-guest777_8_11-05- (15:54):
Before she disappeared altogether,
spence-guest99_9_11-05-20 (15:55):
Regan had a look at her and what he
describes is rather frightening.
spence-guest777_8_11-05 (15:59):
Another fearsome, fearsome image.
She was gigantic in size, itsays.
Frightful in appearance.
Her eyebrows grew into eachother with a grim curve.
And beneath their mattedbristles, deeply sunk in her
head, were two small grey eyes.
And, Darneth forth baneful looksof evil, and from her deeply
wrinkled forehead issued forth ahook's beak, dividing two
(16:19):
shriveled cheeks, her skinnylips curled with a cruel,
malignant expression, herprominent chin stullet with
bunches of grisly hair.
And when he beheld this enragedhag, with outstretched arms,
prepared to seize and warn himafter her gandle, Regan
instantly bound it westward fromthe rock, into the wild and
wondrous spring.
So.
(16:40):
Regan got away, the castle wasdestroyed, and Grala, never seen
again, eh?
chris-patterson_8_11-05-2024 (16:45):
is some image, Spence.
That is some image.
I, I, I think I went out withher in the 90s.
spence-guest99_9_11-0 (17:02):
fantastic story, Grizzly, and as you
mentioned during that, Crystal,those references, those
callbacks to Greek mythology areprobably not by accident.
chris-patterson_9_11-05-2024_ (17:12):
I wouldn't have thought so.
chris-patterson_8_11-05 (17:14):
looking at those Sinbad movies with the
Cyclops and various otherfamous, creatures, the Minotaur
and things like that.
There are various versions ofGiants globally of course We all
know that those versions ofGiants Obviously did come from
Ireland
spence-guest99_9_11-05-2 (17:29):
Whilst we probably can confidently lay
claim to Fimbukul being one ofthe coolest giants, Greeks will
probably claim that they werethere first.
They say that even the wordgiant comes from the Greek
gigantis, meaning earth born.
And again, there's the mentionof the word earth because of a
theory about why giants exist atall.
And this certainly applies tothe causeway in Fimbukul.
(17:51):
It's trying to make sense of alandscape.
around us.
And, but there are otherpsychological reasons as well,,
why we as human beings perhaps,,create or gravitate towards
these stories of giants.
And often, the giant serves assymbols of strength and chaos,
and also of the unknown.
So as we spoke about Before,Chris, and this theme does come
(18:15):
up again, it does seem to beabout fear and protection.
What are the things that areunknown?
What are the things we're afraidof?
We're at the mercy of weather,and disease, and pestilence, and
we're trying to make sense ofall these things, giving it a
form, even a giant, makes somekind of sense.
And it always comes with thatmagic weapon.
In this case, it was the thricecharmed cap.
chris-patterson_8_11-05-2024_ (18:35):
I don't want to delve into it too
deeply in this podcast, butthere's also a place called High
Brazil where, legend has it, thegiants, the fairies, they all
went to live when Christianitytook over Ireland, a hidden
island off the coast of Galway.
So they could still be outthere, the giants.
spence-guest777_8_11-05- (18:53):
that's right, and from memory the
island appeared on old seafaringmaps, as a place that seafarers
were aware of, but then it cameand went, that's certainly worth
a podcast cross.
chris-patterson_8_11 (19:06):
definitely is
chris-patterson_9_11-05 (19:22):
Earlier you said Spence giants getting
smaller and heroes gettingbigger.
But I definitely think it'sinteresting that,, As
Christianity took over Ireland,the myths and legends got
smaller.
It's almost like they werecondensed.
The leprechauns came condensedinto these small, little green
men with a top hat.
Which, by legend standards, isnot true.
(19:43):
It's almost like Christianity.
The bigger it got, the smallerthe belief in these old ways
got, which meant the smaller thecreatures got.
spence-guest99_9_11-05-202 (19:55):
It's almost like a Christian idea and
almost like a rebranding and away of, um, taking these beliefs
which meant a lot to the peopleand almost trivializing them
squeeze those leprechaun mythstill they literally lay fit on a
cereal package.
You know, that's where it began.
That's where that journey, ofalmost making them comedic
that's where it began.
chris-patterson_9_11-05-202 (20:28):
You can't tonight take yourself down
to Giant's Causeway, There hasbeen a number of things filmed
of course, we'll put somephotographs and stuff up on our
socials, but, If you really wantto see it, I believe it appears
in an episode of Game ofThrones.
It also appears in a film thatwas made, I think in 2014,
called Dracula Untold.
A film that I was involved incalled Hellboy 2 The Golden
(20:51):
Army.
Which we flew helicopters overit for.
So, there's definitely a goodview of it.
Way back when you're standingthere amongst the druids trying
to work out how this placebecame what it was.
these hexagon shaped stones,how, you know, did God himself
come down and chip these stonesout?
spence-guest99_9_11-05-2 (21:09):
Making sense of the landscape, isn't
it?
Trying to make sense of it.
And that particular landscapebeing so striking, so unusual,
it could only have given birthto a fantastical, brilliant
story, which still resonatestoday, like the story of Finn
McCool.
It had to be big, didn't it?
It had to be a larger than lifestory to go with that landscape.
chris-patterson_9_11-05-2024 (21:27):
to be honest, to me, it's the
truth.
It has to be the truth.
I mean, who's ever heard ofvolcanoes?
spence-guest99_9_11-05-202 (21:32):
Yes, yes.
I must say, regardless of thegeology of it,, maybe a bit of
both is true, Chris.
Maybe a bit of both is true.
chris-patterson_9_11-05-2 (21:40):
Maybe a bit of both.
And also, just to go back onyour story, you said earlier on
that Finn had lifted a handfulof land and thrown it at
Scotland, just to see if hecould get the other giant.
And he wasn't quite strongenough, so it never made
Scotland.
So of course, as you said, thebig hole became Lough Neagh in
the centre of Northern Ireland.
If you look at any maps you'llsee it.
But that bit of land that landedin the sea, that later became
(22:04):
the Isle of Man.
So McCool created the Isle ofMan out of a slight disagreement
with some Scottish people.
spence-guest99_9_11-05-2024_1 (22:13):
I suppose that's true, Chris, in
fiction, you know, you mentionedsort of contemporary movies that
have used the causeway, but Isuppose Giants generally, like
the BFG, Jack and the Beanstalk,Gulliver's Travels, this idea of
dragons, I think they're just,they're powerful symbols,
chris-patterson_9_11-05- (22:27):
wasn't it if you're in Belfast, was it
Black Mountain that is shapedlike a a large nose
spence-guest99_9_11- (22:32):
Napoleon's nose, they call it, I think,
chris-patterson_9_11-05-2024 (22:34):
It was apparently the, inspiration
for the giant, in Gulliver'sTravels, which is written by
Jonathan Swift.
When he saw it one day hethought it looked like a large
nose.
We have rechristened itNapoleon's nose, right enough.
But if you're ever in Belfastand you look up you'll see this
protruding black cliffside thatsort of does look, you squint,
(22:57):
like a giant's nose.
spence-guest99_9_11-05-20 (22:58):
Yeah, it's true, it's true, that's
absolutely true.
more you think about thesubject, the more you start to
see, I'm starting to see giantseverywhere.
I'm thinking that even like acharacter, you were talking
about the Gjallarhorn and his,his war spasm.
That's not a million miles fromthe Hulk.
chris-patterson_9_11-05-202 (23:12):
No, or, a Tasmanian devil in
cartoons.
spence-guest99_9_11-05-202 (23:16):
They are, we could probably just list
giants all night.
But I suppose the reason forthat is that they mean more they
resonate to us as human beings.
They talk about the humancondition, symbols of strength,
symbols of struggle.
They reflect our fears, ouraspirations.
Um, right down to our very ownhockey team.
(23:36):
The Belfast Giants.
You know, Giants are very muchpart and partial life here,
certainly in the north ofIreland, across Ireland as a
whole.
spence-guest414_10_11-05-20 (23:55):
So, by their very nature, when we
start talking about Giants,we're never going to fit them
all into one podcast, Chris.
chris-patterson_10_11-05-20 (24:00):
No, I don't think So,
spence-guest414_10_11-05-20 (24:01):
So, if you want to find out any more
about the Giants Causeway, orabout Giants and some of the
topics and things we've talkedabout in tonight's podcast,
check out our show notes.
chris-patterson_10_10-17-20 (24:10):
You can find us at iris gothic pod
on Instagram or X, or if youwant to support us, please buy
us a coffee
spence_9_10-17-2024_205215 (24:18):
and look, while you're there, give
us a follow to keep up with allthings in the Irish Gothic
Podcast.
Send us any Irish myths,legends, stories that you'd like
us to delve into next.
chris-patterson_10_11-05-20 (24:27):
And please come back next week where
we're going to face one of thebiggins, St.
Patrick.
Looks like your story has foundyou.
I wish It were another.
But what's meant for you, won'tgo by you.
(24:53):
I'm sorry.
Ach, now.
No need to look so scared, eh?
Enjoy the fire.
Have a sop.
Sure.
Is it all just Irish Gothic?
All just Irish Gothic.
chris-patterson_10_10-23-20 (25:21):
The Irish Gothic Podcast was brought
to you by Causeway Pictures.
It's hosted by Chris Pattersonand Spence Wright.
And was produced by RebeccaAlcorn.
All rights reserved.
chris-patterson_10_10-17- (25:36):
Check out our other podcast, Hostage
to the Devil, which delves intothe dark world of possession and
exorcism.
You can get it wherever you getyour podcasts.
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