November 8, 2024 • 26 mins
The Irish Gothic Podcast explores the origins of Irish Folk tales. myths and legends in all their dark, fantastical glory and how these vivid yarns continue to resonate across the world to this very day.
Join Hosts Chris Patterson and Spence Wright as they fuse their love for all thing's horror with a wellspring of Irish lore.
This week on the Irish Gothic Podcast, we dive into the chilling tale of the Dullahan, Ireland's own headless horseman. To some an instrument of vengeance to others a Harbinger of death, from it's origins within Irish folklore to Hollywood Movies and beyond The Dullahan continues to inspire fear and fascination. So buckle up and join Chris and Spence on the 'Death Coach' as together we journey down the lonely lanes of rural Ireland and into the dark night of the Dullahan.
Hosts: Chris Patterson & Spence Wright
Producer: Rebecca Alcorn
Production Company: Causeway Pictures
Bibliography:
Banshees, Beasts and Brides from the Sea: Irish Tales of the Supernatural (Bob Curran, 1998):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Banshees-Beasts-Brides-Sea-Supernatural/dp/0862815533
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Checkout our other podcast - Hostage to the Devil, real life stories of exorcism and possession. Wherever you get your podcasts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:17):
I know all the folks round thesearts and parts.
Can't say I know you.
Leastways.
Not yet.
But I dare say I know whatyou'll be wanting.
Some of the crack, maybe.
How we yarn with your sup, isit?
(00:40):
No harm in that.
Come on over.
Warm yourself, hmm?
I'll warn you though.
If it's the old Begara andBlarney shenanigans you're
after, you'll not hear them fromme.
Well, if such, like, pleasesyou, you sit on.
(01:00):
I'll fill your ears.
And see what story is meant foryou.
On this dark old night.
spencey-guest166_1_10-23-202 (01:27):
So this story comes from a local
historian, Bob Curran, in hisbook Bansi's Beasts and Brides
from the Sea, which is all aboutArie's tales of the
supernatural.
And this story was collectedfrom an old woman living high in
the Sperrin Mountains in CountyTyrone, and she talks about her
encounter with the Doolahan orthe culture buyer.
And she says, This happened longago when I was only a slip of a
(01:49):
girl, living on the edge of theSparrow Mountains, and we lived
in a very lonely place beside aroad, which ran right through
the mountains.
Every night, one of us youngones had to go down to the road,
get some peat for the fire, Andthis night it was my turn.
It was a clear, frosty night.
The moon was as big as a shelland twice as bright.
(02:10):
Well, I'd only taken a few stepsback towards the house having
got to turf when I heard thesound of wheels on the road
behind me.
It was louder than you wouldhave heard from a pony in a trap
and it was coming up on me very,very quick.
I turned to see who it was.
The road behind me twisted andcurled across the hills.
And because of the moonlight Icould see for miles.
There was not a thing on it, butyet that sound was getting
(02:34):
louder and louder and closer andcloser.
The sound of turning wheels.
And the closer it got, not adevil of a thing could I see,
and yet it was getting louderand louder.
Suddenly it was right up besideme and I felt myself pushed
tight up against the ditch as ifthere was something just trying
to get past me on the road, butyet there was still nothing to
be seen at all.
(02:55):
It was like trying to be Pushedagainst the strong wind, the
whole night was filled withsound of galloping hoofs and
wheels, and then it was gone.
I heard the sound of the wheelsjust fading away further and
further.
I ran back home.
I told all in the house what I'dheard, but nobody would believe
me.
In fact, my father made me goback out to pick up the turf
(03:16):
that I'd dropped.
No one believed me.
They all made fun of me.
Many months later, I was talkingto an old woman.
Now, she had the reputation ofbeing a wise woman.
She knew about the fairies andthe ghosts that wandered across
her mountains.
And I told her about the noiseI'd heard that night on the
road.
The very mention of it, shestarted up and she crossed
herself.
Go on between us and harm, shesaid.
(03:36):
It's not right that such a youngperson should hear these things.
That was the coach a buyer youheard that was the death coach.
That's what you surely heard Shesaid there is a misery for some
poor critter somewhere in thisLocality and that was the
warrants you gave.
It was many months later Therewas a man who lived further
along the road from us He wasvery fond of the drink and they
(03:57):
said he was very bad to his wifeWell, but two months after I'd
heard the sound of that coach onthat road That drunk man was
going past our turf stack at thebottom of the lane Because of
the drink being in him, hetripped up and he fell.
He fell right at the very placewhere I'd heard that sound, and
he cut his leg.
(04:18):
It swelled up with blood, and hegot blood poisoning.
And a couple of days after that,I heard that in spite of
everything the doctors could dofor him in the hospital, he
died.
That was why the Dullahan, wason our road that night, it left
death and grief in it's wake.
chris-patterson_2_10-23-202 (04:46):
I'm Chris
spencey-guest437_2_10-23-20 (04:47):
I'm Spence
chris-patterson_2_10-23-202 (04:48):
And this is the Irish Gothic
Podcast.
chris-patterson_3_10-23-2 (05:11):
Hello and welcome to tonight's
episode.
the Legend of the Dullahan.
Suspense! is the Dullahan?
spencey-guest801_3_10-23- (05:19):
well, Chris, it's one of Ireland's
most famous exports, it's thelegendary headless horsemen.
Its origins are attributed allthe way back to the Irish
folklore.
It's believed the room, thetrails of Ireland taking the
souls of the dying.
chris-patterson_3_10-23-202 (05:30):
Oh, are we talking Christopher
Walken style in Sleepy Hollow?
spencey-guest801_3_10-23-2024 (05:35):
I think we can definitely trace
the Dullahan through to SleepyHollow.
It's an interesting story, theorigins of Dullahan and then how
that gets, interpreted in movieslike Sleepy Hollow.
Absolutely, that's the sort ofimages.
Actually, if anything, they're awee bit darker than anything
you've probably seen.
chris-patterson_3_10-23-2024_ (05:50):
I see that because during the
research for this, obviously wehad a look and there's two
different styles.
That come through reallystrongly.
You have the one man on a horsewith no head galloping.
And then of course you have theblack horse and carriage.
With the man with no headdriving it.
I mean, in terms of what thisthing would have looked like as
(06:10):
it came down the road at you,Spence.
What are we talking here?
spencey-guest801_3_10-23- (06:14):
yeah, been attributed to the
Dullahan's in the years.
So you're holding its severedhead in the air as it rides down
the roads.
Flaming eyes, short ears, theability of the supernatural
sight.
Perhaps one of the most grislyelements, at least for me, is it
has been known to, wield a humanspinal cord as its whip it uses
(06:37):
that to whip the horses and totake out the eggs of anyone who
does see it.
chris-patterson_3_10-23- (06:42):
that's awesome.
chris-patterson_4_10-23-2024 (06:42):
It would need to take your eyes out
because
chris-patterson_3_10-23-2024_ (06:44):
I can imagine that riding towards
you, on a dark night.
The flesh is decayed on the headthat he carries, which is
obviously his own, we're toldthat the skin is sort of like
moldy cheese.
And you can re imagine that sortof off his face.
Now, I've seen mouldy cheese andI can only imagine how that
would look and possibly smell.
(07:27):
What does this guy do?
Why is he riding down the road,Spence?
spencey-guest86_4_10-23-2 (07:31):
Well, look, we know he roams the
countryside.
calling on the souls of thedying or the ill to join him in
the afterlife.
That's the sort of catch allbelief around Adolahan.
some of the rules around that ishe stops his horse in front of a
house.
We may shout out the name of theperson about to die, draw their
soul forth.
That's
chris-patterson_4_10-23-2024 (07:48):
So is he a bit like the angel of
death
spencey-guest86_4_1 (07:50):
absolutely.
I mean, all maybe would be morefamiliar with the Banshee, that
classic, famous of death.
And I know we'll talk about theBanshee in later episodes, but
there are even stories that havethe Banshee riding alongside the
Dullahan on the death coach.
So absolutely a harbinger ofdeath, a grim reaper.
chris-patterson_4_10-23-20 (08:09):
Well for, for anybody who in their
childhood saw a Disney filmcalled Darby O'Gill and the
Little People, the band she doescertainly come along with the
Headless Horseman and picks upDarby to take him to the other
realm.
as a child I remembered beingone of the most scariest things
I'd seen, other than SeanConnery singing, because I
(08:31):
believe it was his first film.
spencey-guest86_4_10-23-202 (08:34):
The horror.
chris-patterson_4_10-23-202 (08:35):
the horror, yeah.
spencey-guest86_4_10-23- (08:36):
That's where the movie was riffing on,
stories that have been recordedby Yeats, been recorded by
Croker, who do talk about theBanshee accompanying the coach
of Bauer, rumbling up the doors.
If you open the door, accordingto Croker, a base and a blood
gets thrown in your face.
It just gets worse.
Grizzly and Grizzly and Grizzly,with the retelling.
chris-patterson_4_10- (09:07):
According to Yeats and his book Fairies
and Folk Tales of the IrishPeasantry, these phantoms are
found even elsewhere.
If we look back into Norwegianhistory, the heads of corpses
were cut off to make the ghostsfeeble.
But heads off a body to make aghost feeble.
Sounds a bit like vampirism aswell, doesn't it?
spencey-guest86_4_10-23-202 (09:30):
you can see how all these stories
sort of clash and merge and, onthe one hand in Norwegian
history is dealing with similarterritory, but in Ireland, we
could be telling the samestories at the same time, not
that one necessarily came first,it could be happening
simultaneously because peopleall around the world are
struggling with the same time.
(09:50):
anxieties, the same fears, thesame worries about death, how
death will come, how they canprotect themselves against it,
what are the signs.
It's a wee bit classic what wetalked about last week in terms
of, I think, fear andprotection.
chris-patterson_4_10-23-2 (10:02):
Yeah.
I mean, it always comes down towhat people need from the
culture.
That takes us perfectly on tothe origin and where this story
came from
spencey-guest86_4_10-23-202 (10:29):
One of the earliest sort of versions
and theories and I suppose theone that Perhaps give credence
to the fact that the dohan isIrish in nature.
Is it, it's actually adescendant of the ancient Celtic
god of fertility and death.
dove.
Who was known as the dark bentone.
This was a can in Ireland,worshiped and offered human
(10:52):
sacrifices.
Guess by what method?
Chris?
chris-patterson_4_ (10:55):
Crucifixion.
spencey-guest86_4_ (10:57):
Decapitation close.
The theory is that this is theoutwork and the ret of crumb
dove still seeking thosesacrifices by decapitation.
And of course Crumb dove is, emembodiment of an earlier God
crumb crook.
So there's a lot to suggest thatthe dohan origins go way, way,
way, way back
chris-patterson_4_10-23-2024 (11:19):
Of course, Spence, in the 6th
century, when Christianity cameto Ireland, all that sacrificial
stuff was put to one side.
I mean, it sweeped the country.
It really sort of killed off thepagan beliefs.
This is when the story of theDualahan first became prevalent.
As Irish people believed thatcrumb Dove took the physical
(11:40):
form and continued getting thesacrificial souls that he needed
to get.
before Christianity.
spencey-guest86_4_10- (11:47):
Christian beliefs sort of took hold,
there's a belief that thesepagan gods of Ireland were
displeased with how festivalssuch as Sion, which we talked
about in our last podcast, thatthese festivals like Sion were
being mistreated and beingdisrespected by the introduction
of Christianity.
And so the response to that wasthat Crumb Dove come back wreak
(12:11):
this terrible vengeance, thisheadless wraith, exacting his
fury upon all those he didn'tfollow the customs and the rules
of the old ways.
So, so you, again, you'rehearing it's a harbinger of
death, there to take your souls.
There we're hearing it'sactually like an instrument of
vengeance, that punishing thepeople for not holding with the
old ways, which as you say,Christianity had begun to usurp.
chris-patterson_4_10-23-202 (12:33):
But I also think there was probably
people still practicing paganismI guess it would be a good news
story for them to put out thatall of a sudden the God has come
back and he's come back forpeople's heads.
chris-patterson_6_10-23-2 (13:02):
Yeah, Spence, I think this really came
to the global attention whenWashington Irvine released his
short story in 1820 called TheLegend of Sleepy Hollow.
It was a tale of a headlesshorseman that terrorizes the
real life village of SleepyHollow is considered to be one
of America's first ghoststories.
(13:22):
And maybe, if you ever read it,one of its scariest.
spencey-guest101_6_10-23-202 (13:25):
So can we still claim Dohan Azari?
Did he take it from us?
did we give it to him?
So there's lots and lots ofconversation around Washington
Irvin's inspiration.
One of the things is, the storyitself he talks about the ghost
of a Hessian trooper whose headwas carried off by a cannonball
in some nameless battle duringthe Revolutionary War.
So that's how he sets up in reallife, in reality, Irvin lived 10
(13:50):
miles from the site of an actualbattle.
And, in the journal of a major,he was quoted as saying, A shot
from an American cannon at thisplace, White Plains, took off
the head of a Hessianartilleryman.
So, there's a real life eventthat happened within 10 miles of
where Irvin lived.
It's certainly one part.
Of, the Sleepy Hollow legend.
chris-patterson_6_10-23-202 (14:11):
Ah, but Spence! There's a historian
called Elizabeth Bradley andshe's at the historic Hudson
Valley and she says the likelysource of Irvine's horseman can
be found in Sir Walter Scott'sThe Chase, which is a
translation of a German poemcalled The Wild Huntsman by
Gottfried Berger.
spencey-guest101_6_10-23-20 (14:31):
Uh,
chris-patterson_6_10-23-20 (14:31):
it's likely based on Norse history.
it is Walter Scott, it isGerman, it is Norse.
a whole load of stuff justcoming at you.
spencey-guest101_6_10-23-2024 (14:44):
I think you may have trumped me
there because Irvin, actually,whilst he was American, was
traveling a lot around England,and he was traveling in the
company of Sir Walter Scott.
chris-patterson_6_10-23-202 (14:53):
No,
spencey-guest101_6_ (14:54):
Absolutely, he was in the company, um,
became friends with Scott, andScott's story about a wicked
hunter, doomed to hunt forever,by the devil and the dogs of
hell, that's not a huge stretch,you take that along with the
real life story he knew about asoldier getting his head taken
off by a cannon, add it to hisrelationship with Scott and
there's one other element he wasan American citizen, but his
(15:18):
parents were from Cornwall.
Cornwall has its own, HeadlessHorseman story.
The English have one called TheSpectator.
The Welsh have The HeadlessWoman story.
And the Cornwall story,according to legend, this
headless coach pulls into thecourtyard of the Molesworth Arms
Hotel every New Year's Eve.
And that links in to a Arthuriantale of the Green Knight in
(15:42):
Camelot.
with Irvine having been exposedto these stories, his parents
were Cornish.
chris-patterson_6_10-23-2024_ (15:46):
I would imagine so.
Very possibly.
Or exposed to versions of them.
chris-patterson_7_10-23 (15:51):
Spence, I can do one better than that
because Washington Irvine was areally close friend of Oscar
Wilde.
And rumour has when he would goover to Oscar's house and have
tea with Oscar and his wife,Oscar's wife would tell him
stories of Irish myths andlegends.
spencey-guest660_7_10-23-2024 (16:08):
I think what we're definitely
seeing, and it's a delight to beable to say this, despite the
fact that he may have beeninfluenced by, Walter Scott, and
the legends of the ArcherianKnights, etc, I think we can
always pull this back to thatCeltic connection because even
if all it was was a rendition ofhis Cornish parents Cornwall
(16:30):
regarded as one of Celticnations along with, Ireland,
Scotland, Wales, Brittany andthe Isle of Man.
even if he just got it from hisparents I think we can
definitely claim Sleepy Hollowas one of ours.
chris-patterson_7_10-23-202 (16:58):
The Sleepy Hollow High School in
Winchester County, New York hasa mascot that has been referred
to as America's Scurriest HighSchool Mascot.
The mascot, of course, is theHeadless Horseman.
spencey-guest660_7_10-23-202 (17:12):
Oh my word, I did not know it'd be
great to hear from anyone whoattends that school, you know,
as they actually send us a postor send us a picture of what
it's like to go to school withthat mascot.
It's decidedly less cuddly thanmost mascots.
We've asked a question, let'ssee who answers.
I don't think I can top thataside, but I do have two more
for you, right?
also.
Coined two very famed, termsthat we use today.
(17:35):
Knickerbocker, which is one ofhis early pen names, and Gotham,
and it makes me think when Ihear Gotham, takes me straight
to movies.
I was wondering, you being themovie buff, we've talked about
Darby O'Gill, but what, have youa particular favourite, version
of how the Dullahan's beingportrayed on the silver screen?
chris-patterson_7_10-23-20 (17:53):
well I think probably the best
version is the Tim Burtonversion, which of course had
Christopher Walken.
But long before that, the firstversion which was in 1922, and
it was an American silent filmadaptation.
Which was called, obviously,Legend of Sleepy Hollow.
And it was directed by Edward D.
(18:15):
Venturi.
really was one of the firstthings to catapult this legend
to success.
to a global audience becauseobviously film was quite new
then and everyone went everyweekend and all of a sudden
you're seeing the HeadlessHorseman.
it probably is one of the firstif not the first silent horror
(18:36):
film.
spencey-guest660_7_10-23-2 (18:38):
Wow, I haven't seen it.
I knew you'd know,
chris-patterson_7_10-23-2 (18:40):
There are also a number.
I mean, when we go back, even ifwe look more recently, films
like Ghost Rider with, NicholasCage.
I know he was on a motorbike,but there were scenes in that
that showed you the history ofthe Ghost Rider.
And of course, the Ghost RiderNow, he wasn't so much hairless
in that film, he had a flamingskull.
(19:02):
I think they couldn't havesomebody running about hairless,
so they needed a flaming skull.
So it made a very iconic look.
chris-patterson_8_10-23-20 (19:14):
And that takes me on to a version of
the Dullahan, a modern versionwhich comes from an urban legend
from Japan.
The legend is that piano wiresstretch across a road at neck
height a motorist coming atspeed hits the wire and is
decapitated.
He drives on headless andcontinues into the night and
turns into a ghost he keepsriding, forever, looking for the
(19:37):
person who murdered him.
that's exactly the type of thingthat could have come from the
legend of the Dullahan.
spencey-guest673_8_ (19:44):
Absolutely, Chris.
When we look at how stories likethe Dohan manifest themselves in
other cultures or how theircultures manifest in our
storytelling, what do weconclude from that, why are
these stories universally knownin one version or another?
What is the DNA strand that runsthrough all these stories?
For me, and I could be wrong, Ifeel it's similar to what we
(20:08):
talked about but on our lastpodcast.
It's trying to put a context, aconstruct around the unknown.
You know, if, if we're allafraid of the unknown, and
that's the worst fear of all,death, effectively, then must be
the biggest unknown.
And I think stories likeAdolahan were There are rules,
(20:28):
you'll hear three raps to thedoor, if you don't see it,
you'll be fine.
For me, this is again an exampleof people's fear of the unknown,
fear of death, and trying tofind ways to make sense of it
and protect themselves from it.
spencey-guest166_1_10-23- (20:53):
Time.
Three or four years after theexperience down by the turf
stack.
This is when my sister Annie wastaken very ill with pneumonia.
I had to be kept in bed.
It happened on a cold winter'sevening.
I was in the house on my own.
My mum was away.
I was looking after Annie.
And while I was waiting, theneighbour of ours, Maggie,
called to see how Annie was.
And I encouraged her to come in.
We sat and we talked by thefire.
(21:14):
And then I heard it.
That sound, far away on theroad, the horse and trap
approaching our house, this timeit was coming quicker and
quicker, the clop clop of horsesand hooves coming to our door.
It drew closer and closer, andthen it seemed to slow down.
There's Muller now, says I,getting up to go to the door.
And sure enough, the sound hadstopped, and it drew level with
our house.
I went to the window to lookout.
(21:34):
Before I opened the door for Iwanted to see who'd come by, but
there was nobody on the roadoutside.
And suddenly I heard three loudbut very clear raps.
I don't know if they came fromthe window, I don't know if they
came from the door, but I canvouch I heard them.
They were like the noise of astick hitting the bottom of an
empty wooden bucket.
A hollow sound that kind ofechoed, made me feel shivery.
(21:55):
And Maggie heard it too becauseshe jumped up.
And then I started to hear thesound of the wheels turning
again on the road outside.
Come away from the window, Mary,said Maggie, very sternly.
That's the coach of Bauer.
It's come for your sisterAnnie's soul.
Don't look out, for you don'tknow what you might see.
Annie, it's not going to be longfor this world at all.
Well, I didn't look out and thesound did fade away and soon
(22:18):
after my mum came home and wetold her all about it.
She knew all about the storiesabout the countryside and
rumours and legends about threeknocks on the window preceding
the death but she never paidthem any heed.
And actually that night Ali'sfever seemed to be getting
better, she seemed to be gettingwell.
But later in the night her feversuddenly took a turn for the
worse.
A doctor was sent for.
(22:39):
But by the time he arrived, mysister Annie was already dead.
The coach had definitely comefor her soul.
Now they say it's the devilhimself who drives it, And that
the horses that pull it are allheadless, and no mortal eye can
see as it goes past.
Three raps in the window are asure sign of a death, but if the
coach only stops at a door, thenit is a signal there will be a
(23:00):
lasting sickness.
That's what I heard, and that'swhat happened to Annie.
Now those two you'll tell youthese days, these are just silly
superstitious people, tellingsilly stories.
And the sounds that we'rehearing on those roads at night
are just the sounds of smugglersrunning, poaching up and down
the roads and the hills and thetrails of the Spirans.
They say the smugglersthemselves may have put these
(23:22):
stories out to keep people offthe roads when they're going
about their business.
But I am an old woman now, and Ihave no cause to lie to you.
I know what I heard all thoseyears ago.
I know the way that it was.
chris-patterson_8_10-23-2024 (23:57):
To quote Gothic Studies Professor
Franz Potter, The HeadlessHorseman supposedly seeks
revenge and a head.
And of course a head, which hethinks was unfairly taken from
him.
This injustice demands that hecontinually search for a
substitute.
The Horseman, like the past,seeks answers.
Still seeks retribution andcan't rest.
(24:19):
We are haunted by the past,which stalks us so that we will
never forget it.
spencey-guest166_1_10-2 (24:23):
Whether it's fear of the unknown, fear
of death, whether it's themes ofretribution, injustice,
disrespect for the old ways, wecan see how all these universal
themes are captured by onephantom creature.
And it's that lady from theSperans.
She's an old lady now, andpeople try to tell her that she
didn't really know what sheheard, but she maintains, I know
(24:46):
what I heard all those yearsago, I know the way that it was.
spencey-guest815_9_10-23-2 (25:04):
That was the story of the Dullahan,
Ireland's headless horseman.
chris-patterson_8_10-23-20 (25:09):
Next Week, we're doing Giant's
Causeway, which of course meansgiants.
Looks like your story has foundyou.
(25:29):
I wish It were another.
But what's meant for you, won'tgo by you.
I'm sorry.
Ach, now.
No need to look so scared, eh?
Enjoy the fire.
Have a sop.
(25:50):
Sure.
Is it all just Irish Gothic?
All just Irish Gothic.
chris-patterson_10_10-23-20 (26:06):
The Irish Gothic Podcast was brought
to you by Causeway Pictures.
It's hosted by Chris Pattersonand Spence Wright.
And was produced by RebeccaAlcorn.
All rights reserved.
chris-patterson_10_10-17- (26:21):
Check out our other podcast, Hostage
to the Devil, which delves intothe dark world of possession and
exorcism.
You can get it wherever you getyour podcasts.
I know all the folks round thesearts and parts.
Can't say I know you.
Leastways.
Not yet.
But I dare say I know whatyou'll be wanting.
Some of the crack, maybe.
How we yarn with your sup, isit?
(00:40):
No harm in that.
Come on over.
Warm yourself, hmm?
I'll warn you though.
If it's the old Begara andBlarney shenanigans you're
after, you'll not hear them fromme.
Well, if such, like, pleasesyou, you sit on.
(01:00):
I'll fill your ears.
And see what story is meant foryou.
On this dark old night.
spencey-guest166_1_10-23-202 (01:27):
So this story comes from a local
historian, Bob Curran, in hisbook Bansi's Beasts and Brides
from the Sea, which is all aboutArie's tales of the
supernatural.
And this story was collectedfrom an old woman living high in
the Sperrin Mountains in CountyTyrone, and she talks about her
encounter with the Doolahan orthe culture buyer.
And she says, This happened longago when I was only a slip of a
(01:49):
girl, living on the edge of theSparrow Mountains, and we lived
in a very lonely place beside aroad, which ran right through
the mountains.
Every night, one of us youngones had to go down to the road,
get some peat for the fire, Andthis night it was my turn.
It was a clear, frosty night.
The moon was as big as a shelland twice as bright.
(02:10):
Well, I'd only taken a few stepsback towards the house having
got to turf when I heard thesound of wheels on the road
behind me.
It was louder than you wouldhave heard from a pony in a trap
and it was coming up on me very,very quick.
I turned to see who it was.
The road behind me twisted andcurled across the hills.
And because of the moonlight Icould see for miles.
There was not a thing on it, butyet that sound was getting
(02:34):
louder and louder and closer andcloser.
The sound of turning wheels.
And the closer it got, not adevil of a thing could I see,
and yet it was getting louderand louder.
Suddenly it was right up besideme and I felt myself pushed
tight up against the ditch as ifthere was something just trying
to get past me on the road, butyet there was still nothing to
be seen at all.
(02:55):
It was like trying to be Pushedagainst the strong wind, the
whole night was filled withsound of galloping hoofs and
wheels, and then it was gone.
I heard the sound of the wheelsjust fading away further and
further.
I ran back home.
I told all in the house what I'dheard, but nobody would believe
me.
In fact, my father made me goback out to pick up the turf
(03:16):
that I'd dropped.
No one believed me.
They all made fun of me.
Many months later, I was talkingto an old woman.
Now, she had the reputation ofbeing a wise woman.
She knew about the fairies andthe ghosts that wandered across
her mountains.
And I told her about the noiseI'd heard that night on the
road.
The very mention of it, shestarted up and she crossed
herself.
Go on between us and harm, shesaid.
(03:36):
It's not right that such a youngperson should hear these things.
That was the coach a buyer youheard that was the death coach.
That's what you surely heard Shesaid there is a misery for some
poor critter somewhere in thisLocality and that was the
warrants you gave.
It was many months later Therewas a man who lived further
along the road from us He wasvery fond of the drink and they
(03:57):
said he was very bad to his wifeWell, but two months after I'd
heard the sound of that coach onthat road That drunk man was
going past our turf stack at thebottom of the lane Because of
the drink being in him, hetripped up and he fell.
He fell right at the very placewhere I'd heard that sound, and
he cut his leg.
(04:18):
It swelled up with blood, and hegot blood poisoning.
And a couple of days after that,I heard that in spite of
everything the doctors could dofor him in the hospital, he
died.
That was why the Dullahan, wason our road that night, it left
death and grief in it's wake.
chris-patterson_2_10-23-202 (04:46):
I'm Chris
spencey-guest437_2_10-23-20 (04:47):
I'm Spence
chris-patterson_2_10-23-202 (04:48):
And this is the Irish Gothic
Podcast.
chris-patterson_3_10-23-2 (05:11):
Hello and welcome to tonight's
episode.
the Legend of the Dullahan.
Suspense! is the Dullahan?
spencey-guest801_3_10-23- (05:19):
well, Chris, it's one of Ireland's
most famous exports, it's thelegendary headless horsemen.
Its origins are attributed allthe way back to the Irish
folklore.
It's believed the room, thetrails of Ireland taking the
souls of the dying.
chris-patterson_3_10-23-202 (05:30):
Oh, are we talking Christopher
Walken style in Sleepy Hollow?
spencey-guest801_3_10-23-2024 (05:35):
I think we can definitely trace
the Dullahan through to SleepyHollow.
It's an interesting story, theorigins of Dullahan and then how
that gets, interpreted in movieslike Sleepy Hollow.
Absolutely, that's the sort ofimages.
Actually, if anything, they're awee bit darker than anything
you've probably seen.
chris-patterson_3_10-23-2024_ (05:50):
I see that because during the
research for this, obviously wehad a look and there's two
different styles.
That come through reallystrongly.
You have the one man on a horsewith no head galloping.
And then of course you have theblack horse and carriage.
With the man with no headdriving it.
I mean, in terms of what thisthing would have looked like as
(06:10):
it came down the road at you,Spence.
What are we talking here?
spencey-guest801_3_10-23- (06:14):
yeah, been attributed to the
Dullahan's in the years.
So you're holding its severedhead in the air as it rides down
the roads.
Flaming eyes, short ears, theability of the supernatural
sight.
Perhaps one of the most grislyelements, at least for me, is it
has been known to, wield a humanspinal cord as its whip it uses
(06:37):
that to whip the horses and totake out the eggs of anyone who
does see it.
chris-patterson_3_10-23- (06:42):
that's awesome.
chris-patterson_4_10-23-2024 (06:42):
It would need to take your eyes out
because
chris-patterson_3_10-23-2024_ (06:44):
I can imagine that riding towards
you, on a dark night.
The flesh is decayed on the headthat he carries, which is
obviously his own, we're toldthat the skin is sort of like
moldy cheese.
And you can re imagine that sortof off his face.
Now, I've seen mouldy cheese andI can only imagine how that
would look and possibly smell.
(07:27):
What does this guy do?
Why is he riding down the road,Spence?
spencey-guest86_4_10-23-2 (07:31):
Well, look, we know he roams the
countryside.
calling on the souls of thedying or the ill to join him in
the afterlife.
That's the sort of catch allbelief around Adolahan.
some of the rules around that ishe stops his horse in front of a
house.
We may shout out the name of theperson about to die, draw their
soul forth.
That's
chris-patterson_4_10-23-2024 (07:48):
So is he a bit like the angel of
death
spencey-guest86_4_1 (07:50):
absolutely.
I mean, all maybe would be morefamiliar with the Banshee, that
classic, famous of death.
And I know we'll talk about theBanshee in later episodes, but
there are even stories that havethe Banshee riding alongside the
Dullahan on the death coach.
So absolutely a harbinger ofdeath, a grim reaper.
chris-patterson_4_10-23-20 (08:09):
Well for, for anybody who in their
childhood saw a Disney filmcalled Darby O'Gill and the
Little People, the band she doescertainly come along with the
Headless Horseman and picks upDarby to take him to the other
realm.
as a child I remembered beingone of the most scariest things
I'd seen, other than SeanConnery singing, because I
(08:31):
believe it was his first film.
spencey-guest86_4_10-23-202 (08:34):
The horror.
chris-patterson_4_10-23-202 (08:35):
the horror, yeah.
spencey-guest86_4_10-23- (08:36):
That's where the movie was riffing on,
stories that have been recordedby Yeats, been recorded by
Croker, who do talk about theBanshee accompanying the coach
of Bauer, rumbling up the doors.
If you open the door, accordingto Croker, a base and a blood
gets thrown in your face.
It just gets worse.
Grizzly and Grizzly and Grizzly,with the retelling.
chris-patterson_4_10- (09:07):
According to Yeats and his book Fairies
and Folk Tales of the IrishPeasantry, these phantoms are
found even elsewhere.
If we look back into Norwegianhistory, the heads of corpses
were cut off to make the ghostsfeeble.
But heads off a body to make aghost feeble.
Sounds a bit like vampirism aswell, doesn't it?
spencey-guest86_4_10-23-202 (09:30):
you can see how all these stories
sort of clash and merge and, onthe one hand in Norwegian
history is dealing with similarterritory, but in Ireland, we
could be telling the samestories at the same time, not
that one necessarily came first,it could be happening
simultaneously because peopleall around the world are
struggling with the same time.
(09:50):
anxieties, the same fears, thesame worries about death, how
death will come, how they canprotect themselves against it,
what are the signs.
It's a wee bit classic what wetalked about last week in terms
of, I think, fear andprotection.
chris-patterson_4_10-23-2 (10:02):
Yeah.
I mean, it always comes down towhat people need from the
culture.
That takes us perfectly on tothe origin and where this story
came from
spencey-guest86_4_10-23-202 (10:29):
One of the earliest sort of versions
and theories and I suppose theone that Perhaps give credence
to the fact that the dohan isIrish in nature.
Is it, it's actually adescendant of the ancient Celtic
god of fertility and death.
dove.
Who was known as the dark bentone.
This was a can in Ireland,worshiped and offered human
(10:52):
sacrifices.
Guess by what method?
Chris?
chris-patterson_4_ (10:55):
Crucifixion.
spencey-guest86_4_ (10:57):
Decapitation close.
The theory is that this is theoutwork and the ret of crumb
dove still seeking thosesacrifices by decapitation.
And of course Crumb dove is, emembodiment of an earlier God
crumb crook.
So there's a lot to suggest thatthe dohan origins go way, way,
way, way back
chris-patterson_4_10-23-2024 (11:19):
Of course, Spence, in the 6th
century, when Christianity cameto Ireland, all that sacrificial
stuff was put to one side.
I mean, it sweeped the country.
It really sort of killed off thepagan beliefs.
This is when the story of theDualahan first became prevalent.
As Irish people believed thatcrumb Dove took the physical
(11:40):
form and continued getting thesacrificial souls that he needed
to get.
before Christianity.
spencey-guest86_4_10- (11:47):
Christian beliefs sort of took hold,
there's a belief that thesepagan gods of Ireland were
displeased with how festivalssuch as Sion, which we talked
about in our last podcast, thatthese festivals like Sion were
being mistreated and beingdisrespected by the introduction
of Christianity.
And so the response to that wasthat Crumb Dove come back wreak
(12:11):
this terrible vengeance, thisheadless wraith, exacting his
fury upon all those he didn'tfollow the customs and the rules
of the old ways.
So, so you, again, you'rehearing it's a harbinger of
death, there to take your souls.
There we're hearing it'sactually like an instrument of
vengeance, that punishing thepeople for not holding with the
old ways, which as you say,Christianity had begun to usurp.
chris-patterson_4_10-23-202 (12:33):
But I also think there was probably
people still practicing paganismI guess it would be a good news
story for them to put out thatall of a sudden the God has come
back and he's come back forpeople's heads.
chris-patterson_6_10-23-2 (13:02):
Yeah, Spence, I think this really came
to the global attention whenWashington Irvine released his
short story in 1820 called TheLegend of Sleepy Hollow.
It was a tale of a headlesshorseman that terrorizes the
real life village of SleepyHollow is considered to be one
of America's first ghoststories.
(13:22):
And maybe, if you ever read it,one of its scariest.
spencey-guest101_6_10-23-202 (13:25):
So can we still claim Dohan Azari?
Did he take it from us?
did we give it to him?
So there's lots and lots ofconversation around Washington
Irvin's inspiration.
One of the things is, the storyitself he talks about the ghost
of a Hessian trooper whose headwas carried off by a cannonball
in some nameless battle duringthe Revolutionary War.
So that's how he sets up in reallife, in reality, Irvin lived 10
(13:50):
miles from the site of an actualbattle.
And, in the journal of a major,he was quoted as saying, A shot
from an American cannon at thisplace, White Plains, took off
the head of a Hessianartilleryman.
So, there's a real life eventthat happened within 10 miles of
where Irvin lived.
It's certainly one part.
Of, the Sleepy Hollow legend.
chris-patterson_6_10-23-202 (14:11):
Ah, but Spence! There's a historian
called Elizabeth Bradley andshe's at the historic Hudson
Valley and she says the likelysource of Irvine's horseman can
be found in Sir Walter Scott'sThe Chase, which is a
translation of a German poemcalled The Wild Huntsman by
Gottfried Berger.
spencey-guest101_6_10-23-20 (14:31):
Uh,
chris-patterson_6_10-23-20 (14:31):
it's likely based on Norse history.
it is Walter Scott, it isGerman, it is Norse.
a whole load of stuff justcoming at you.
spencey-guest101_6_10-23-2024 (14:44):
I think you may have trumped me
there because Irvin, actually,whilst he was American, was
traveling a lot around England,and he was traveling in the
company of Sir Walter Scott.
chris-patterson_6_10-23-202 (14:53):
No,
spencey-guest101_6_ (14:54):
Absolutely, he was in the company, um,
became friends with Scott, andScott's story about a wicked
hunter, doomed to hunt forever,by the devil and the dogs of
hell, that's not a huge stretch,you take that along with the
real life story he knew about asoldier getting his head taken
off by a cannon, add it to hisrelationship with Scott and
there's one other element he wasan American citizen, but his
(15:18):
parents were from Cornwall.
Cornwall has its own, HeadlessHorseman story.
The English have one called TheSpectator.
The Welsh have The HeadlessWoman story.
And the Cornwall story,according to legend, this
headless coach pulls into thecourtyard of the Molesworth Arms
Hotel every New Year's Eve.
And that links in to a Arthuriantale of the Green Knight in
(15:42):
Camelot.
with Irvine having been exposedto these stories, his parents
were Cornish.
chris-patterson_6_10-23-2024_ (15:46):
I would imagine so.
Very possibly.
Or exposed to versions of them.
chris-patterson_7_10-23 (15:51):
Spence, I can do one better than that
because Washington Irvine was areally close friend of Oscar
Wilde.
And rumour has when he would goover to Oscar's house and have
tea with Oscar and his wife,Oscar's wife would tell him
stories of Irish myths andlegends.
spencey-guest660_7_10-23-2024 (16:08):
I think what we're definitely
seeing, and it's a delight to beable to say this, despite the
fact that he may have beeninfluenced by, Walter Scott, and
the legends of the ArcherianKnights, etc, I think we can
always pull this back to thatCeltic connection because even
if all it was was a rendition ofhis Cornish parents Cornwall
(16:30):
regarded as one of Celticnations along with, Ireland,
Scotland, Wales, Brittany andthe Isle of Man.
even if he just got it from hisparents I think we can
definitely claim Sleepy Hollowas one of ours.
chris-patterson_7_10-23-202 (16:58):
The Sleepy Hollow High School in
Winchester County, New York hasa mascot that has been referred
to as America's Scurriest HighSchool Mascot.
The mascot, of course, is theHeadless Horseman.
spencey-guest660_7_10-23-202 (17:12):
Oh my word, I did not know it'd be
great to hear from anyone whoattends that school, you know,
as they actually send us a postor send us a picture of what
it's like to go to school withthat mascot.
It's decidedly less cuddly thanmost mascots.
We've asked a question, let'ssee who answers.
I don't think I can top thataside, but I do have two more
for you, right?
also.
Coined two very famed, termsthat we use today.
(17:35):
Knickerbocker, which is one ofhis early pen names, and Gotham,
and it makes me think when Ihear Gotham, takes me straight
to movies.
I was wondering, you being themovie buff, we've talked about
Darby O'Gill, but what, have youa particular favourite, version
of how the Dullahan's beingportrayed on the silver screen?
chris-patterson_7_10-23-20 (17:53):
well I think probably the best
version is the Tim Burtonversion, which of course had
Christopher Walken.
But long before that, the firstversion which was in 1922, and
it was an American silent filmadaptation.
Which was called, obviously,Legend of Sleepy Hollow.
And it was directed by Edward D.
(18:15):
Venturi.
really was one of the firstthings to catapult this legend
to success.
to a global audience becauseobviously film was quite new
then and everyone went everyweekend and all of a sudden
you're seeing the HeadlessHorseman.
it probably is one of the firstif not the first silent horror
(18:36):
film.
spencey-guest660_7_10-23-2 (18:38):
Wow, I haven't seen it.
I knew you'd know,
chris-patterson_7_10-23-2 (18:40):
There are also a number.
I mean, when we go back, even ifwe look more recently, films
like Ghost Rider with, NicholasCage.
I know he was on a motorbike,but there were scenes in that
that showed you the history ofthe Ghost Rider.
And of course, the Ghost RiderNow, he wasn't so much hairless
in that film, he had a flamingskull.
(19:02):
I think they couldn't havesomebody running about hairless,
so they needed a flaming skull.
So it made a very iconic look.
chris-patterson_8_10-23-20 (19:14):
And that takes me on to a version of
the Dullahan, a modern versionwhich comes from an urban legend
from Japan.
The legend is that piano wiresstretch across a road at neck
height a motorist coming atspeed hits the wire and is
decapitated.
He drives on headless andcontinues into the night and
turns into a ghost he keepsriding, forever, looking for the
(19:37):
person who murdered him.
that's exactly the type of thingthat could have come from the
legend of the Dullahan.
spencey-guest673_8_ (19:44):
Absolutely, Chris.
When we look at how stories likethe Dohan manifest themselves in
other cultures or how theircultures manifest in our
storytelling, what do weconclude from that, why are
these stories universally knownin one version or another?
What is the DNA strand that runsthrough all these stories?
For me, and I could be wrong, Ifeel it's similar to what we
(20:08):
talked about but on our lastpodcast.
It's trying to put a context, aconstruct around the unknown.
You know, if, if we're allafraid of the unknown, and
that's the worst fear of all,death, effectively, then must be
the biggest unknown.
And I think stories likeAdolahan were There are rules,
(20:28):
you'll hear three raps to thedoor, if you don't see it,
you'll be fine.
For me, this is again an exampleof people's fear of the unknown,
fear of death, and trying tofind ways to make sense of it
and protect themselves from it.
spencey-guest166_1_10-23- (20:53):
Time.
Three or four years after theexperience down by the turf
stack.
This is when my sister Annie wastaken very ill with pneumonia.
I had to be kept in bed.
It happened on a cold winter'sevening.
I was in the house on my own.
My mum was away.
I was looking after Annie.
And while I was waiting, theneighbour of ours, Maggie,
called to see how Annie was.
And I encouraged her to come in.
We sat and we talked by thefire.
(21:14):
And then I heard it.
That sound, far away on theroad, the horse and trap
approaching our house, this timeit was coming quicker and
quicker, the clop clop of horsesand hooves coming to our door.
It drew closer and closer, andthen it seemed to slow down.
There's Muller now, says I,getting up to go to the door.
And sure enough, the sound hadstopped, and it drew level with
our house.
I went to the window to lookout.
(21:34):
Before I opened the door for Iwanted to see who'd come by, but
there was nobody on the roadoutside.
And suddenly I heard three loudbut very clear raps.
I don't know if they came fromthe window, I don't know if they
came from the door, but I canvouch I heard them.
They were like the noise of astick hitting the bottom of an
empty wooden bucket.
A hollow sound that kind ofechoed, made me feel shivery.
(21:55):
And Maggie heard it too becauseshe jumped up.
And then I started to hear thesound of the wheels turning
again on the road outside.
Come away from the window, Mary,said Maggie, very sternly.
That's the coach of Bauer.
It's come for your sisterAnnie's soul.
Don't look out, for you don'tknow what you might see.
Annie, it's not going to be longfor this world at all.
Well, I didn't look out and thesound did fade away and soon
(22:18):
after my mum came home and wetold her all about it.
She knew all about the storiesabout the countryside and
rumours and legends about threeknocks on the window preceding
the death but she never paidthem any heed.
And actually that night Ali'sfever seemed to be getting
better, she seemed to be gettingwell.
But later in the night her feversuddenly took a turn for the
worse.
A doctor was sent for.
(22:39):
But by the time he arrived, mysister Annie was already dead.
The coach had definitely comefor her soul.
Now they say it's the devilhimself who drives it, And that
the horses that pull it are allheadless, and no mortal eye can
see as it goes past.
Three raps in the window are asure sign of a death, but if the
coach only stops at a door, thenit is a signal there will be a
(23:00):
lasting sickness.
That's what I heard, and that'swhat happened to Annie.
Now those two you'll tell youthese days, these are just silly
superstitious people, tellingsilly stories.
And the sounds that we'rehearing on those roads at night
are just the sounds of smugglersrunning, poaching up and down
the roads and the hills and thetrails of the Spirans.
They say the smugglersthemselves may have put these
(23:22):
stories out to keep people offthe roads when they're going
about their business.
But I am an old woman now, and Ihave no cause to lie to you.
I know what I heard all thoseyears ago.
I know the way that it was.
chris-patterson_8_10-23-2024 (23:57):
To quote Gothic Studies Professor
Franz Potter, The HeadlessHorseman supposedly seeks
revenge and a head.
And of course a head, which hethinks was unfairly taken from
him.
This injustice demands that hecontinually search for a
substitute.
The Horseman, like the past,seeks answers.
Still seeks retribution andcan't rest.
(24:19):
We are haunted by the past,which stalks us so that we will
never forget it.
spencey-guest166_1_10-2 (24:23):
Whether it's fear of the unknown, fear
of death, whether it's themes ofretribution, injustice,
disrespect for the old ways, wecan see how all these universal
themes are captured by onephantom creature.
And it's that lady from theSperans.
She's an old lady now, andpeople try to tell her that she
didn't really know what sheheard, but she maintains, I know
(24:46):
what I heard all those yearsago, I know the way that it was.
spencey-guest815_9_10-23-2 (25:04):
That was the story of the Dullahan,
Ireland's headless horseman.
chris-patterson_8_10-23-20 (25:09):
Next Week, we're doing Giant's
Causeway, which of course meansgiants.
Looks like your story has foundyou.
(25:29):
I wish It were another.
But what's meant for you, won'tgo by you.
I'm sorry.
Ach, now.
No need to look so scared, eh?
Enjoy the fire.
Have a sop.
(25:50):
Sure.
Is it all just Irish Gothic?
All just Irish Gothic.
chris-patterson_10_10-23-20 (26:06):
The Irish Gothic Podcast was brought
to you by Causeway Pictures.
It's hosted by Chris Pattersonand Spence Wright.
And was produced by RebeccaAlcorn.
All rights reserved.
chris-patterson_10_10-17- (26:21):
Check out our other podcast, Hostage
to the Devil, which delves intothe dark world of possession and
exorcism.
You can get it wherever you getyour podcasts.
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