Aging is Optional: Rewriting Menopause | 055 - It Has to Be Me

Episode Transcript
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Tess Masters (00:00):
If you are over 40 and feeling invisible and thinking that the best of your years are behind you, I am so excited for you to meet my friend shavita Kotak. Shavita is a yoga teacher, a Wellness Educator and the author of seven wonders of menopause, and she's going to share how we can welcome this sacred rite of passage as a divine invitation to really listen to our bodies, ask for what we need, and go after what we want with the force of nature. I met shavita through our friend Claudia, and her book is a beautiful blend of medical research, ancient teachings, wisdom from female luminaries and personal growth. We're going to be talking about letting go of who you've been taught to be, and honoring who you are today, and celebrating the wisdom that only comes with age. Oh, you are going to love what she has to say. So let's get the skinny from shavita. Kotak,

(00:57):
oh, shavita, I am so excited that I get to talk to you about the seven wonders of menopause. I love this book, and I love what a beautiful mix of medical research, ancient traditions and such ancestral wisdom, honest conversations with women and personal experience it is. So I want to ask you what the it has to be me. Moment was for you where you were going through perimenopause, and you went, I have to write this book and share this wisdom with other women.

Shavita Kotak (01:35):
I've just literally, I
was just coming to the end of my perimenopause journey, and I spent about 10 years researching all these women that inspired me. And I literally just woke up one day and said, I've gotta write a book, and I gotta write a book about menopause. And that was it. It was like I had a calling, because I had all this information that I've researched, and I found these amazing women that helped me on my journey, and I thought it'd be such a waste not sharing that information out there, because I wish I had that for myself at that time.

But why this book? Because I've sat in your women's circle, I've come to your sound healings. I get so much of your wisdom in other ways, which is beautiful. Why this book in this format?

Well, I'm going to take you back 10 years. Yeah, please. When I was starting my perimenopause journey, I was lost, and I was made to believe, from what I heard from mainstream media, that when you hit menopause, it's going to be doom and gloom and your life is going to decline. And the little symptoms or experiences started showing up in my life. I started getting anxious about day to day task. And normally I wake up and I'm happy with my day, but I was waking up thinking, Oh my God, I've got another day of children, kids business, and I was getting anxious. And also the language my body was speaking to me was changing. It was very subtle. Things I could eat before I wasn't able to get away with, like, if I had an extra glass of wine, it will leave me feeling warm, and I didn't. I was kind of like, not knowing who I was anymore. So the role I was identifying with before was shifting. I wasn't sure what was going on. And then I actually said to my husband, after a couple of I think it was a couple of years of this feeling of I'm feeling a bit lost as to who I am. My body is changing its language. My menstrual cycle was changing. My body temperature, temperature was changing. My skin texture was changing, and I thought I need to go away and rediscover and just have some space from the busyness of life. And I went to Byron Bay to do a juice fast. And when I was there in the fast I was watching some health programs, and I saw Dr Christian Northrup doing a pod presentation, and she said to me on the podcast or the presentation, menopause is a time when a woman becomes who she's meant to be unapologetically, and shouts it out loud. And I thought, Who is this woman I've never heard of menopause or perimenopause spoken to about in that manner, because before that, every woman I asked in her 50s and mid 50s used to put their heads down with shame and say, It's a horrible time of your life. And I had just had this question. So Surely it can't be at the end. You know, just when I'm finishing my children, I'm getting to midlife, this can't be the end. And that was the change when I heard Dr Christian Northrup say that one sentence that the sentences, and that's what, that's the woman I'm going to follow. And then from that, I started researching different ways of viewing perimenopause, and I started taking ownership of how I wanted to do it. Yeah,

no, I love this idea of taking ownership of your journey and your menopause transition. I love Christian Northrop's quote, which you use in the book, that menopause is the mother of all wake up calls. It's not just about physical symptoms, it's an opportunity to transform and improve your life and ultimately, our culture. And now you're part of that, you know. And I also love that she quotes in her books, and in your book, Dr Martinez, you know, which I just think it's the great quote about menopause, getting older is inevitable, aging is optional, and getting older is an opportunity to increase your value and competence, which I absolutely love. And I really love one of your quotes in the book where you describe menopause as being hijacked by the universe, yes, in the most exquisite way. So talk to me more about what that was like for you when you when you took up that invitation, and you surrendered and you embraced being hijacked by the universe.

Basically, the universe came tapping on my shoulder telling me that how you used to function in the world is not going to work anymore. Now you can resist and carry on as normal, like your body is still 20 and in your 30s and in your early 40s, but it's not going to work because it's going to come up in your body. Your body's going to communicate that this is not acceptable any longer, and that was when I took the invitation. Said, I want to see myself. I want to feel everything, and I want to start listening to my body. So I give you an example. Jane harder Collins talks about a hot flush. A hot flush is there to tell you. The message is it's going to be there to burn something away that is not serving you any longer. So instead of me fighting that hot flush, I would ask that hot flush, what are you trying to tell me? Now it is either telling me I've eaten bad food. This is the physical side. I've drank an extra glass of wine. I'm stressed and I haven't set boundaries. Yes, yeah, that was it was telling me, and it was telling me to open my voice and speak my truth. Now that's very uncomfortable for me to say, No, I can't do that because I was putting other people first, like we all do as busy women accommodate other people. And Jane hardrick Collins says one important thing about estrogen, it's estrogen is this veil of accommodation and self sacrifice. So when a young girl goes into her bleeding her first bleed, that veil comes upon her, and it's your time to sell sacrifice and accommodate people and nurture your family and your career and give, give, give to the world. And then all of a sudden, perimenopause starts. And that's veil starts lifting. And I don't want to accommodate everybody any longer, because my I physically can't. Yes, and that veil starts lifting. Now, with that lift of the veils comes difficult conversations that I that starts probably mainly with the family, actually, husband. I can't do that anymore. You're gonna or I don't want to do that. No, I don't want to do that anymore. Because if I do that and say yes to you, I'm saying no to myself Yes. So I got to a tipping point in my life. The pain of staying the same was more painful for me than the pain of unknown. And I took that invitation. I'm happy to go with the pain of unknown, because I cannot stay in the pain of this current situation that was all internal within me.

Yeah, I love how Christian Northrop says happiness is an inside job. Yes, it's exactly. Exactly what you're what you're talking about. I love the mantra of this book, or one of the missions, is debunking this myth of what menopause is, you know, and that it's an invitation to unlearn what we've been told, awaken to the truth, claim our voice, and so forth. I want to ask you about this idea of the transition being an enormous transition and transformation of power and freedom you talk about in the book when you were a young child and then a young woman living in an Indian culture in London, and being feeling like you were trapped or stuck between two worlds and not where, knowing where your voice was in that world. And you've always been seeking that freedom, you know, put strapping on a backpack and going, I'm leaving, you know, and going and traveling the world and moving to Australia, and all the things that you've done. I want to ask you about this journey of you finding your voice, yes, and, more importantly, using it, and how menopause has really guided you to to the freedom that you've been craving your entire life.

Oh, I didn't realize I function from a place of accommodating other people, because in the Indian culture, girls aren't supposed to speak up. It's very traditional male female. So from coming from that, and then moving through, and then I thought, hang on, I've carried this through. And it's not just my non speaking my truth that came from my mother and my grandmother. We're all connected,

and I'm going to show the red thread. Yeah,

so here's a diagram, and there's a picture of, say, this lady is my grandmother, my mother is in her belly and in my mother's while she's in her belly of her mother, I'm an egg there. So every emotion is transferred, good or bad, like this. And once I understood that, I realized I want to break that cycle so my daughters don't feel that. So they can speak their truth and honestly when you're speaking your truth. For me, my voice is shaking even like now speaking my truth with this book, it's uncomfortable for me, but I choose. There is no choice, because I want to bring this out to the world so women have the choice. There is another aspect far bigger in perimenopause, and it's a personal journey back to yourself.

Yeah, it really is an invitation. And, you know, not being able to menstruate and carry children anymore is an invitation that your body is just for you, that your life is just for you. Now, I love Jane Hardwick calling invitation to embrace the teachings of the red thread and decide that you're going to be the person that breaks the cycle of ancestral narratives that don't serve you, yes. So you are now breaking the cycle of the ancestral narratives that don't serve you and teaching your two girls a different way to be.

But I don't need to even teach them they're watching. Yes, yes. They're watching. They're watching. My mum never had self care. She never went out for a massage or had dinner with her friends. I never saw her going and looking after herself and going away for a weekend. I'm doing that so my daughters are watching.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to ask you about something that Gladys Gary was talking about, this trusting of your voice, right, this journey of independence and freedom and using it. And she talks about life being a jigsaw puzzle, and that the pieces are waiting to be recognized and placed. Yes, and then we're not defined by our limitations. We move beyond them, and that we're aging into health, the health of who we are, and every stage requires you to adapt and grow. So besides this, learning to use your voice and saying no, the power of saying no, what other jigsaw pieces have been recognized or being put into place for you during menopause and then and through the the journey of writing this book and speaking to these women?

Okay, the first thing is, menopause is not doom and gloom. It's a definite invitation to explore who you really are and let go of all the things that you were told to be and do.

Okay, so what has it been for you, though, personally, for me, okay

for me, it's like I've finally given myself permission to be me, not the version of me that has to hustle do everything, be everything for everybody else. And if I don't do that, who am I? What's my value? Yeah, because that's the hustle culture, especially Gen X, has been brought up with doo, doo, doo, doo doo, multi task. Do it all burn yourself out to the ground. There's nothing left for you. So now the main thing for me is like, I don't have to live that way. I have to live in harmony with my body. My body is communicating to me all the time, and I've just gotta let it talk to me, and are going to be still enough to listen, and that's where what happens with the minute. And also, another thing is aging. In our culture, it's so youth orientated that our value is on our youth and our beauty. Now that's another thing I had to let go of, because I used to, I used to think, oh my gosh, I'm going to lose my looks. I'm going to lose my beauty. What am I when I become middle aged? Am I going to disappear in the background and become invisible, like I've been told? And the truth is, when a woman goes in to menopause, she retains her sacred blood, and then she can tune into the moon instead of giving out to the world, and that moon is intuition and guidance for something far bigger than yourself. And

so what is your intuition telling you? Now, besides, I want to share this wisdom with the world. I've got this calling. I want to be living with my divine feminine energy, sharing it with the world, and being a seeker of wisdom and a sharer of it for you personally. What have the downloads been that are guiding you in this next chapter, specifically, besides the calling of sharing the wisdom for you on a personal level,

on the personal level, I feel excited about life

in a way that you didn't before. Yes, I

feel alive. I am not pretending the mask has come off. This is me. I can walk. I can say no when I want to say no, I don't have to explain and make excuses. It's like no, thank you. I can do things on my own. I'm not waiting for somebody else to do it. I'm saying yes to myself to more adventures and more self care. I am falling in love with myself.

I love it. I love how Alexandra Pope, in your book, talks about building the muscle of no yes, building the muscle of No, which is, is such a great way of saying it. She also talks about something you were saying before, about exercising that rest and digest, and she calls it the 1% of change, and exercising the 1% of change every day, and those small moves on a daily basis make such a massive difference. So when you were interviewing her and you heard that 1% of change, because that really resonated with me when I read the book, what have the daily 1% of change looked like for you as you exercise the muscle of No, as you say yes to you, you know, all the things. So what

I've done with that, I added a sacred pause into my responses. So if somebody asks me, can you do this for me, I actually pause for a second and say, Do I want to do this out of obligation? And by me saying yes, am I going to be saying no to myself, a quick pause so I'm able to better be honoring myself, so I add that pause, whereas before, I just think, yes, okay, I'll accommodate you. So I add a sacred pause, and I actually ask myself, today, what does what does my body need today? What do I need to say yes to? What things do I have to do, and what are the things that I'm adding in there, and what can I let go of to create some space in my day? Yeah, I love me.

I'm taking that from you. The sacred pause when I get asked something, it's really, really, really great look when you were, gosh, there's just so. Are many great takeaways from these amazing women. So you've interviewed these six women? Yes, it's really incredible. So listener, we've got Dr Gladys McGarry, who's known as the fairy godmother in the seven wonders. Then we've got Eboo Robin limb, who's known as the mother. Then we've got Alexandra Pope, the initiator, Jane Hardwick, Collings, the boss witch. Yes, Dr Christian Northrup is the ageless Goddess, and Dr Vandana Shiva is the warrior. And then number seven is shavita. And all of us, yes, we are. We're the seekers of wisdom and knowledge. By being part of this. It's so beautiful. So when you were thinking about these six wonders, knowing that the seventh was going to be you and us, how did you decide who those six were going to be? And I love how you got that introduction of how they came into your life and how they how they influenced you. But I mean, gosh, there's so many Goddesses on planet earth. Why these six? Oh,

Tess, it just happened. I had no control over it. It unfolded,

and you just allowed it. Yes, I went. I trust

my intuition when that message, this is the hijack, when the message came down from the universe, I'm going to write a book. And I'm going to write a book about menopause. Now, in that sacred pause, I had an opportunity to take on that message and go with it or ignore it and say, No, I'll just carry on with my life. And I chose in that sacred pause, oh, there's a message there for me. Now, I've got an invitation here to do something to make a difference. Am I going to take the invitation, or am I going to just stay here? And I said, I'm going to take that invitation and I'm going to just email Doctor Christian Northrup and ask her, Would she like to be part of this book? Because she started the journey for me, and I sent her a message. I think it was on the 28th of December, 2023 on my birthday, January the 10th. It was he in here, but it was January the ninth, which is my birthday. Around about then she emailed me and said, Yes. And I said, Ah, so that's it. This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to write this book. And then from her, I got to know Dr Gladys, McGarry, because she was 103 years old, and if and I looked at her life, I said she's 103 years old and she's vibrant. She's on social media sharing her book a well lived life. And is that I want to follow her? I want to learn from her. So I emailed Dr Gladys, and she said, Yes. And Jane, Jane, I used to listen to her all the time about rites of passages, and it all made sense. It felt like, Oh, this is how we're supposed to be as women. We have rites of passage. We're born. We have our first menstrual cycle. We become mothers, or you create a baby, or you create a business, whatever it is. Then we have menopause, and then the final rite of passage is death. And I said these rites of passages aren't celebrated, and that's how it folded. And then the next person came in, Alexandra Pope, she talks about menstrual cycle awareness. And when you do menstrual cycle awareness, you're more in tune, because every month there's a birth and there's a death, there's a spring, there's a summer, there's an autumn and there's a winter in your menstrual cycle. Because I never went on the pill. I only went on the pill for about two years of my life, so I actually practice menstrual cycle of awareness. So I was quite in tune in that way, without awareness. If that makes sense, I knew I was I was doing something, but I wasn't aware of what I was doing.

Yeah, I loved when Alexandra Pope said, listening to yourself is the true wisdom for metaphors exactly what you've been talking about. And I also just want to just talk about how we are always cycling as women, even when we're not menstruating. So this sort of cycle awareness and seasonal awareness that we're in all cycles of the moon, or however, you know, we want to be tracking our cycle as women, that even if you are not menstruating, you're still cycling in, you know, in a monthly way and in a seasonal way, and to be aware of what you need at any given moment and allow that to change and be what it is. Well, I

use that cycle because I was struggling with the book. I was at points where it's like, it's not happening. What am I doing? You're writing. You're doubting yourself. And I said to myself, I'm going to cycle with the day. And when I started cycling with the day, the book started flowing, yeah, effortlessly. So it's it's nature, nature. Tells us how to be. There is a spring, there is a summer, there is a autumn, and there is a winter there that happens in the day, it happens in a month, it happens in a year, and it happens in our lifetimes. And when we honor that, we flow with life with a bit more ease, because we're not going against nature. We are nature,

yeah, that practice of doing that is often lost in Western culture, yes, specifically, where we're just not taught and we do not practice that unless we are in an, I'm going to say, an alternative community, for want of a better expression, you know, people that are doing yoga, that are listening to ancient teachings, that are embracing these things, but in modern Western culture, we don't tend to value that connection with Earth. So when Dr Vandana Shiva was talking about that connection with Earth, seed, soil and women, yes, that it's real, you know, that we are the caregivers of the earth in ancient times. And then when, you know, women were struck down for their wisdom and proclaimed witches and all the rest of it, you know, we sort of, we've discounted that under a patriarchal system that sort of wanted to squash the wisdom of women, you know. So I really appreciated that piece of it, you know, getting actively and mindfully involved in your own nourishment, as you were saying, the nourishment of your life, your family, your community, you know, the planet or whatever. So what was the big takeaway of speaking to her about that you know you I love how you have a wrap up in each chapter of what you've learned on a personal level, but as you say, connecting with Earth, connecting with nature, realizing that we are all energy. Yes, what's been the big takeaway from talking to her?

So with Vandana Shiva, she reminded me, nature is science. Yeah, it tells us how to be. There is seasons in everything we do, and when we interrupt it with chemicals outside of when we put it doesn't flow. It's like at the moment Perry, you know, as women, we are expected to be in summer all the time, production, production, production, producing, producing, producing, producing, when is the rest there? And that's why we're not in balance. And when you start honoring the seasons of your body, of the day of the month of the year of your life. You connect to nature and you connect to yourself because you're listening with intuition.

I loved when you and I were talking, where you called it the cage of aging. You called it the cycle of chasing, and what I'm hearing from you sharing is that you've stopped chasing, and you're allowing things to come to you intuitively, yes, and so, and being in the flow of that so.

Dr, Christian Northrup wrote a really beautiful book, goddesses never age, yes. And in that book, she says it's the cage of aging. Now it is a cage if I and I was in that cage in my early 40s, because there's a point where all of a sudden you think, oh my gosh, I'm aging. And I either go and try to hold on to this youth, which is outside of me, or I just accept who I am for where I'm at, and embrace it. And I feel so much better inside, because your happiness is an inside job. Nothing outside of you is going to give you happiness, nothing. It might give me temporary, temporarily blips of happiness, but it all starts within you, and once you're happy within yourself, everything else around you doesn't really matter. You start flowing with life, and you dance with the universe.

Yeah, going back to Christian Northrop again, I liked when she said perimana perimenopause it is adolescence in reverse. Yes, that it's a time to reconcile parts of yourself that may have been neglected or suppressed. Yes.

So there's something really important that happens. Dr Christian Northrop and Jane both said this. There's these two magic hormones, right? Nobody really talks about this. And when I found that I said Aha. That was another aha moment. So when a girl starts menstruating at ovulation, there's these two hormones that peak, folic stimulating hormone and luteinizing hormone. Now those are the two hormones that peak and you're the most charismatic and. The most intuitive at that time, because that ovulation, you're looking for your partner. Yeah, you're looking for a partner. So your intuition is heightened, because I need to find the right mate to co create life. Yeah, nature. So what happens with a girl that's menstruating? It peaks that ovulation, and it goes back down. The magic that happens in menopause is those two hormones stays elevated. After menopause, your intuition is heightened and your visionary abilities is heightened. And that's the power of being a post menopausal woman, and that's why all the witches were burnt, yeah? Because when a post menopausal woman, you can't she speaks her truth, and you can't shut her up.

And that's me at the moment. No, it's fantastic, you know. And I love how Jane Hardwick Collings talks about celebrating the wisdom. I mean, they all do, but celebrating the wisdom of women and the dark goddess, as she calls it, the inner voice guiding us towards necessary change. And if we listen to that, give it voice, as you say, that is when we can't shut up, because it is the necessary change, and we're following that Blessed Unrest. So in terms of you know, she everybody talks about it in the book, but specifically, Jane talks about the power of the circle and seeking out community, other women who are using their voices and don't want to shut up, right? And seeking out those people, finding your soul family. Christian North talks about that, doesn't she? So you lead a circle, you've you're part of other circles. Let's talk about the power of finding circles. So listener, if you are not in a women's circle and you're not part of that experience, let's just share the wonder of sacred circle.

So the women in history, women have been gathering for circles for ages. For centuries, they used to circle around a tree, and I remember my mother as the Indian woman, we used to gather in the garden and make food with all the other ladies would come and then we'll distribute it. So we were all sitting in circle for a long, long time. It's only in the last, I don't know, 100 years we've forgotten about that. But when you sit in circle, you are not alone. Other women are going through exactly what you're going through, too. We all have the same feelings, insecurities, vulnerabilities, but when you're in circle, you feel supported, you feel heard, you feel seen.

There's also something that comes with a sacred circle, where you go into circle with a group of women that don't know you socially or professionally. So one thing I really love about the circles that I'm a part of, they do not they're not composed of my friends and family or colleagues. So when you come into that circle, whatever you share is being seen and heard through an unfiltered lens in terms of you, there's a lens obviously, with the way we listen and see as human beings, of course, but not through the lens of knowing anything about you, just what you're sharing as part of the collective conversation. And I find that incredibly freeing and empowering exactly

so the circles. Circles have rules as well, because in the circle, we're not judging, we're not giving advice, we're listening intently, 100% listening. We have an opportunity to be seen and heard intentionally, and it's done in a confidential environment so you feel safe to be spoken to speak your truth. Because remember in the past, women were burnt and killed for speaking their truth. So we still hold that in our memory.

Yeah, and I do like the tradition of passing the stick, you know, or, you know, different circles, crystal or whatever, yeah, different traditions, absolutely, you know, using oracle cards. I mean, there's just so many things that can happen in circle, uh, depending on the nature of the circle, which is so, so beautiful. And what I love, another thing I love is, is women claiming their role as custodians of wisdom and actually celebrating the wisdom you have to share and the wisdom of others. Ibu Robin Lim talks about claiming your crone your place as an elder of the community as you age and and the joy and the value of that you were talking before about how in in society, we're wanting to preserve youth and hold on to youth at all costs, and we don't value older women in the way that we should. So how are you claiming your. Role as a crone, as an elder. Well,

you see, I'm in the spring of my cronies. So I'm in adolescence, in this stage of Yes, yes. So, so let's just work it out roughly between zero and 25 you're in your spring years. Yeah, roughly, and then 25 to 50, you're in your summer. You're producing your dirt. And then between 50 and 70 is the autumn years. Like Jane says, so I'm in the spring of my autumn years, yes. And then after 70, you become the winter the crone that actually you get crowned, and a woman after she's gone through motherhood, she's got so much wisdom, you know, you've experienced life. And Vandana Shiva goes, these women knows what herbs fix what and how plants are grown and what to do. She goes, if you want to know something, and you you'd go to a post menopausal woman. You if you go to somebody under 30, they might know how to do their nails, but that's about it. And I just said that's so true, because wisdom comes with experience and time, and that's why, when I was searching for role models for my perimenopause menopause journey, I wanted to seek women that have already gone through it and have actually made a difference in the world. It's like I wanted to be inspired by them. And those are the women in the book,

and they are indeed inspiring, that is for sure. So as you prepare or, you know, and it'll be a long, decades long preparation to step into your full crone hood, or elder hood, or whatever we want to call it. But we are older than people in their full spring, in their 20s, you know. And I think as women in our 50s, claiming the role that you have, you know, as a keeper of more wisdom, not as much wisdom as someone who's, you know, 103 like Gladys was, but, but how? What do you recommend to us, you know, for women in their 50s who want to claim that place today, that where you know you're you say you're in the spring of your crone journey, but you're still in the journey, yeah, you know. And claiming your role, you know, how is that manifesting for you. In addition to writing this book,

Look, one thing I learned which was really important that's really helped me. I had to let go, let go of control.

Oh, tell me about that.

I like to control everything. I'm a control freak. I used to be a financial planner, you know, these numbers and measured and, yeah, this life my ex, you can't measure some things, and I've let go of that. It's like I've softened with myself.

Oh, I love that. Softened with myself. You talked before about the sacred pause when someone asks you a question, which is such a great, tangible takeaway. Yeah, in terms of softening and letting go, because you are wired to be a control freak, and your central nervous system is wired that way. Give, give us a practical strategy that you're using to remind yourself to soften and be slower and say no, is there something like the sacred cause that you're doing I breathe

simple. You just take a couple of deep breaths. Now I've got a choice here. I can either respond the same way as I've always done, I know, react the same way as I've always done, or I can respond consciously with alignment with my body. And I'm going to add that sacred breath with the sacred pause and tune into my body. What is my body telling me what feels safe, what feels good, what feels peaceful for me. And then I make my decisions from that, and that includes food, activities, friendships, relationships, and how I spend my time. I am very conscious of all those things now, I don't just give it away now,

yeah, so all the things that you're just listing is all part of self care, yeah, you know. And self care and the importance of it is talked about by all of these women, these six women, and by you in the book, all the seven wonders talk about the importance of prioritizing self care, and you've been talking a lot about this during our conversation. So what are some of the really important takeaways from the book into. Terms of self care from these women that you have,

one of the main things they all said is let go. We've got to let go of control, because control comes when we don't feel safe. Our nervous system says, I don't feel safe, so I've got to control things. And that is a cycle. But when you feel safe within yourself and you let go of control, whatever happens, I'm going to be okay, and I'm going to surrender with myself and not feel as if I need to hold on to something, you know, like hold on to my beauty. Hold on to my looks. Hold on to my weight, how I used to be. You just got to surrender. And it comes in little, little, little steps daily. You can choose, am I gonna go into react the same way, or am I going to respond consciously with intention?

Yeah, the responding with intention is really key to this. What have you learned from these women about owning your power, stepping into it, using it in a mindful way?

I don't know whether I would call it power. One thing I've learned is, when you do it with love,

what would you call it if you don't, if you wouldn't call it

power becoming okay, because you're becoming softer. And you know, sometimes with anger, you're doing this, but when you soften and when you act through love, and you make changes through love, it's a different energy. That's what I think. And before, in my old you know, I want this. I want control. I want to do this, do this, do that. You know now, now I want to just soften. I want to flow through life.

Yeah, that's that's feels lovely. It really does, but

it feels lovely. But how do you actually do it? Shall we sort of think about that. It comes in small, small steps daily, like first thing in the morning. Do I pick up my phone, or do I say to myself, I'm gonna have half an hour where I get up, I cream my body, my teeth, I have a shower. I prepare myself for the day. You're planting the seed of the day, and then that's the spring of the day. Let's look at that, the spring of the day where I'm planting the seed of my intentions, what I want to do. And then the summer comes, I'm doing my work, and then about three o'clock in the afternoon, I might do my appointments where I'm speaking to people I don't need as much brain work when I need to concentrate. And then in the afternoon, about six o'clock, I'm getting ready for my family time, wind down time. And I like routine. Yeah, my body knows this is the time I'm going to go to bed, and it starts with those simple little things. And also food makes a big difference. As you know, I try to have everything homemade. Mm, and it's not always possible to have everything homemade, but when possible, I like to buy my food from the markets where the where I know where the fruit and veg is coming from. I know what's seasonal, and I know when I eat something bad, there's going to be consequences, and sometimes I do, but I know that limit if I have too much sugar, I know I'm going to be feeling hot in the night, but I do with awareness, because it's like, Okay, I'm going to enjoy this chocolate or whatever, and I know I'm going to be feeling warm, but I know that. I know how my body works, but that took time to learn. So what I did as well, I kept a diary in the perimenopause stage, like I was monitoring what is the things that trigger when I can't sleep? Is there something that I've eaten or something happening with my stress levels? So I was able to start building this new relationship with my body.

I mean, you know what you're talking about is discipline and practice the discipline and practice to be you at this phase of your life. It's self

care. It's not it is I need that to function to the best of my capacity for myself and for my family and for my community and for my work, and if I'm not grounded, how am I going to give that to other people?

Yeah, I want to ask you about these symptoms that you're talking about, because I really like your perspective in the book. About every symptom and experience mirrors a contraction during menopause, a way of shedding to to It's an invitation to emerge as a renewed and more powerful version of yourself. So So talk to me more about that. So listener, you can understand about you talked about this earlier. I just want to delve into a little bit more. Though about about listening to the hot flash or the the sleeplessness or the restlessness or the anxiety as an invitation to look at what you need to shed and let go of. Yeah. So talk, talk us through some of the practical ways that you listen, in addition to the breathing and the sacred pause and the mindful redirection of yourself, are there other tools that you use to take up those invitations when those symptoms come in, those

symptoms come in because something's not in alignment,

right? Absolutely. So how do you practically address that? Can you give us any more of the tools that you're using to first of all, listen, I had to reprogram

my mind and a hot flush is not a problem. It's not something to fix.

So how did you reprogram your mind? By

educating myself and seeking wisdom and knowledge from wonderful women that shared ancient what it's about. And when I heard that, I thought, Okay, now, instead of fighting these symptoms or experiences, I'm going to take them as invitations. So when I found out, I'm going to just share some of them. Let's look at, obviously, I spoke about hot flush, something that you've got to burn away. Let's look at something. What is another common? Okay, let's talk about hair loss. Okay, hair loss. Your hair changes. Yeah, texture changes. Now, what's happening? What happens in autumn? The leaves are falling off, and we're shedding our own, our identity as we used to be, and we're going into a next identity. So this text is changing because your mind's changing. Your whole being is changing energetically. So of course, this is going to change because that's connected, but we don't. We're not taught this. That's the thing. That's the sad thing. We're not taught this, and we just go, go, go, go, go, but we have to add that sacred pause to say, Hang on a minute. Let me step back and let me educate myself so I can understand this way and that way, and then I'm going to mix both to come up with something that suits me at this time in my life.

Yeah, I did like that other section of your book where Christian Northup said, when it's it's a time to question familial and societal narratives. And when somebody said, Oh, well, you know, if someone says hair loss, you know, well, you know you lose your hair and you get bald and you look awful and you know old and terrible. And her response is, well, that doesn't apply to me. No, I absolutely love that response. I am stealing it that doesn't apply to me, and actually saying that to yourself as a practical way of redirecting yourself to not buy into a narrative that doesn't serve your joy. Oh,

I say that all the time, and you know, got friends that say, oh my, it was just aging. I've got aches and pain, I guess doesn't apply to me. It doesn't. I'm actually in less pain today as a 55 year old woman than I was as a 35 year old woman, because I didn't understand my body, then I know it. Now I have a better relationship with it, so I know the messages. And it's taken a long time to build this relationship with myself. So it doesn't happen over time. It's a building, a beautiful loving relationship with yourself, and it starts with the words you say about yourself. If you're going to say, I'm going to say, I'm getting old, you know, my hair is like this, you're talking to yourself. You're you know, you're reminding yourself you're getting old. But age is just a number. It's an energy.

Yeah, we're just not taught in Western culture to cherish and respect and honor our elders. Yes, in a sacred place, you know it's it's part of Eastern culture. And I know you know that intergenerational, cohabitating that is part of Indian culture. Or, you know, as something that you have been brought up with in Western culture, we're typically not doing that. I know we're sort of moving into that a bit more by by economic necessity, because the cost of living is so high. People are cohabitating in an intergenerational way in Western culture, in a way that they perhaps weren't doing in the past. But it's not the same impetus as it is in some of these other cultures. So how are you honoring your elders, in addition to writing this book and your work in your personal life, how are you showing your daughters, you know, by them watching what you're doing. How are you taking your place as an elder and also just honoring people that are they're

watching how I behave with my mum and my parents. So I my parents live in England. I go back once or twice a year to spend time with them. So they're watching that. I don't need to go. It's a lot of it's miles, you know, it's another side of the world, twice a year, once a year, going back home to see them. But I choose to, because I want to. And they and and them spending time with their grandparents. They're listening to stories. Now, we used to all live together, but remember, I've got to just share something in the 1960s when the pill was introduced, I learned this in financial planning. Before that there was one person working, and with one person, you'll be able to buy a house, feed your family, and look after your family. The Pill was introduced, and then all of a sudden, the economy and inflation went peaking because there's two people working now, and the highest prices went up. And now we're in a situation even when two people are working, there's still not enough to feed your family and look after yourself and your family. So we're in a situation where we cannot keep up like this. Something has to change.

So how do you recommend that people be part of that change, besides being seekers of wisdom and knowledge and sharing it. You know, a lot of us thinking about this right now would be looking at the world that we are in and the leaders that have taken over in some very powerful countries who are the absolute. They're modeling the absolute antithesis of what you're talking about, you know, and we're really warring against that direction. So obviously we know that the ripple effects are really powerful, you know, and using our voices is more important than ever now. So there's something about, you know, railing against what you consider to be injustice or something that represents everything that you stand against. You know, and where women, I cannot believe that in 2025 women are being marginalized more than they were 50 years ago. You know, in America, for example, that's having a flow and effect to other nations. What? What would you say is the antidote to that?

Do you know, I think once you change yourself from inside, it ripples through the people you are around. So all starts with one person, and one person inspires another person, and another person inspires another person, and then we've got a community that's been inspired, and then we it grows and grows and grows because we didn't get to this stage overnight. So change moving forward won't happen overnight, but it happens with one small step at a time, and that's in your personal self care journey, and also changing your community, your family. It's small steps. And also, yeah, everything you do do through love, because love is the highest vibration.

Yeah, I did. I did love your section about patience towards the end of the book, which, you know, I think, is a very high vibration, forgiveness, love, patience, persistence, you know, they're all high vibrational actions. In my opinion. I did love Gladys, McGarry, five L's. I did really love that. Can you share that with with us? So

listening with love? Yeah, because you can listen, I can listen to you. But if you're not there, actually listening in the present moment with love, then you're not really hearing it. Um.
Labor with love. What you do is a job or passion. Do it with love. What was that other? L, laughter. Oh. Laughter. So I can laugh at somebody in a bad way, or I can laugh with them, yeah. Speaking with love, what are your intentions?

Yeah, I did love. I really loved that section about life, love, laughter, labor, listening, and her philosophy about that at 103

Unknown (55:35):
it was really quite extraordinary. Remarkable woman really inspired me that

thinking, Okay, if she can live to 103 and

Unknown (55:43):
still be on social media sharing her wisdom,

yeah, and looking glamorous, and she had a mission, she had a legacy she wanted to leave behind. And that energy came through her through social media, and she goes, when I asked her about menopause, she goes menopause. Who you know? Why would you want to go back to being youthful? Carry on. You've been there, done that. Move on.

Yeah. I really loved the poem at the beginning of the book, ending with a poem at the beginning and the end. I just want to share list. One of the little stuff for you. Listener, menopause is a gateway, not the end, a time to rise, to break and mend. Each change, a spark, each symptom, a guide, calling us inward, where truth resides. That was my favorite part of the poem. It was so, so beautiful. So I always close every episode with the same question, which is, when you have a dream in your heart and you don't feel like you have what it takes to make it happen, what do you say to yourself?

I say trust yourself and trust everything's going to be okay. There's two options, fear or trust. What are you going to choose? What's the worst thing that going to happen? We're all going to die in the end anyway. So what does it matter? Let's just go for it.

Yeah, let's just go for it. But I just, oh, my big takeaway from this conversation is allowing, allowing being soft, softening and allowing things to be and then saying yes to what you trusting, trusting you're

gonna be okay, and when we surrender, our nervous system is relaxed enough to receive,

yes, yeah, yeah. You know, as you're saying that to me, I'm thinking that menopause is the ultimate invitation to trust yourself yes more than anything or anyone yes

and everything we've been sweeping under the carpet has to come out, as Christian Luther says, and it comes out in menopause. It's like no more body. You're not going to carry on treating me like this. I'm going to give you a hot flush to slow you down. I'm going to give you sleepless nights to make sure you stay in bed. You know. I'm going to make sure you listen to me. Because,

yeah, going back to what you were saying, the ultimate wake up call. Yes, yeah. And those uncomfortable symptoms are invitations to address what has been suppressed. Yes, exactly, yeah. Oh, my goodness, wow. I just I really love this perspective. What's your hope for the book?

Look, my hope for the book is that people have two choices, and they can mix them to suit their own personal needs. And I hope women stop listening to their bodies and not thinking of menopause as a problem to be fixed, like Jane says, but an invitation to the new version of yourself, a remembering of who you originally were before we were programmed to believe something else.

Yeah, oh yes, yes, yes to that. Thank you so much for this beautiful conversation. I love you. Thank you

Tess for inviting me. This was beautiful. Thank you everybody listening.

Oh, what a beautiful conversation about honoring the discipline and practice of honoring who we are, honoring the divine feminine, honoring female stories. I'm really going to be paying attention to the red. Thread in my family, what ancestral narratives do we need to let go of in order to heal ourselves and show the next generation a better way that menopause is not the end, it's a gateway to our greatest power, that during menopause, our intuition and visionary abilities are heightened. So allow yourself to be hijacked by the universe in the most exquisite way. Oh. I loved when she said that that when faced with aging myths, we can respond with, well, that doesn't apply to me, and that aging doesn't mean disappearing. It's an opportunity to upgrade our value and intuition. I loved when she said, menopause has helped me soften within myself, act with love and be in the flow of my life, that when you feel safe, you can let go of control, surrender and be present with whatever happens. Oh, I love Alexandra Pope's message that listening to yourself is the true wisdom of menopause, and that it's not a problem to be fixed. It's the ultimate wake up call to trust yourself more than anything or anyone, that divine invitation to create a loving relationship with your body, and that the uncomfortable symptoms are invitations to voice what's been suppressed and shed what doesn't serve you, and step into a renewed and more powerful version of yourself. I love the Jane Hardwick callings call to see symptoms like a hot flash is a signal that there's something that isn't serving you that needs to be burned away. And shavita was picking up that call and saying to herself, is it a food I've eaten? Am I stressed and need to set boundaries, or do I need to speak my truth? And the importance of cultivating that practice of asking what your body needs every day and honoring the answers, what things do I have to do and what can I let go of to make space in my day for what I really want to be doing, exercising that muscle of no and that saying no can be a sacred act of love that leads to the right yes for everybody I loved when she shared, adding a sacred pause before responding to honor herself, just taking those couple of deep breaths to consciously respond in alignment with your body, what feels safe and peaceful, and that she makes choices from that place, I'm certainly going to be applying that in my life. Was interesting when she said the pain of staying the same was more painful than the pain of the unknown, and does saying yes to something or somebody means saying, yet saying no to myself and that by surrendering to that listening, you are able to receive the wisdom from yourself and others that we can use menopause As an opportunity to

Unknown (01:02:59):
just be and not

Tess Masters (01:03:02):
be pushing and producing all the time. I really loved honoring the cycles and the seasons of nature, of life, of our bodies, of our day, our month, our year, the chapter of our lives that there has to be a summer, fall, winter and spring energy and every day and every chapter and just the beauty and the practice and the ceremony of honoring female elders, and that it's our responsibility to embrace our place as leaders, as we age, leaders of our communities, of our families, of Nature, of the earth, of history, of story, and the importance of sharing that feminine wisdom to be a part of our own healing and the healing, the collective healing in our families, relationships, work, communities that by using our voices and sharing our experience in Sacred circles, we are seizing our role in generational change. Oh, that really, really spoke to me. So definitely connect with shavita. We've got all of her links in the show notes. I loved when she said that change starts with one person. When you change yourself from the inside, it ripples through the people around you. One person inspires another person, and that that person inspires another, and then we've got a community and a world that's inspired, and it grows so definitely into her world. It's a beautiful place. So I'm really interested to hear what resonated with you from this episode. So leave a review and a post in the Facebook group. I can't wait to hear you.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Aging is Optional: Rewriting Menopause | 055