Make Sensational Vegetarian Meals | 072 - It Has to Be Me

Episode Transcript
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Tess Masters (00:00):
Oh, Amy, I'm so excited to talk to you about food, about your journey with food. I love your book so much so, and celebrating the 10 year anniversary at home in the whole food kitchen, your books really are just a culmination of your life journey with food. So take me inside how you grew up in

(00:24):
rural Australia, cooking andliving off the land with your parents.

Amy Chaplin (00:30):
Yeah, it's funny. It's something I think about more now, just having children and actually moving out of cities where I lived for decades, you know, in Amsterdam and London and then New York for the longest time, and never thought I'd leave. And then now I'm like, oh, you know, it just
makes a lot of sense for, youknow, what I feel is important, and mostly that's because of food and the quality of ingredients, and eating straight from the garden and being in nature to to play, and, you know, all of those things. But it's it really informs you, you know, like, I really notice how

(01:10):
much difference it's made for mein my career that I know, like, what a good cherry tomato tastes like. I feel like it's led me all through the way I cook and the way I want to sort of celebrate these ingredients, and it's just something I think about a lot with my children. I'm like, you know, eat this
carrot now, like, straight afterwe pull it out of the ground, because I'm just like, this is informing your taste buds. I want, I want them to know, you know, what a real food tastes like, and how good it can taste. You know, that's why I just think it's so important to grow whatever you can, even if it's

(01:42):
just a pot of parsley. I mean, Iput that, Ezra will not eat greens and not many vegetables. He doesn't really like them. But eating like, he'll eat a stalk of fennel out of a garden, or green or ripe cherry tomato off a vine, and he'll eat parsley because he picks it. And we play games with like, guessing which
herb this is, and I got someshiso growing, and it's not about some advanced palette, it's just about, like, understanding, you know, how good food can taste.

And what else did you learn from your parents growing up, where the nearest store was, you know, 30 kilometers away, right?

Yeah, it was. I mean, they cooked everything from scratch, and now I just know that is so much work and it's so hard. I mean, I don't know if it's just harder these days or not, but I mean, life is just so busy. But, you know, making because there is, I mean, even though I'm in a much more
populated environment that Iwas, that I grew up in, there's just still not really good quality snacks and meals to have out. You know, there's good farm stands, and you can get some great peaches and berries and ingredients, you know, and things you can snack on. But there's not really great meals.

(02:50):
Well, there, there are, but notfor not, not for children like, you know, there's some nice restaurants, but you're not going to just stop in and grab something to eat. So I am constantly packing snacks, packing meals, you know, doing all that. And my parents did that, and they made their own
bread, and they, you know,they're really, real homesteaders. And, you know, I just really appreciate how much work that is. And I definitely learned that from them. I mean, you know, I don't make bread, I could, but, you know, I do have access to good bread, but it's just, it's a real lifestyle. And

(03:21):
I guess I learned that that wasingrained in me. It was, it was just part of what we did. We packed up food, even to go shopping an hour and a half to a big store. You know, there was, there was like a gas station, you know, 1015 minutes away, there was a probably tiny health food store at different times,
30 minutes down a dirt road, butthen to go somewhere where, you know, you're guaranteed to get ingredients, was an hour and a half. So that would be a whole day's journey for us. We pack, you know, my mother repacking things for us to take on this journey, you know. And there was, there was, like, some

(03:55):
restaurants. We ate in aJapanese restaurant when I was really young, like, you know, because it would be a whole outing. And maybe we'd stay over if it was the holidays or something, and we'd camp at the beach or whatever. But, yeah, it was, you know, I see it in my sister too. So it's not just me,
you know, she's into food aswell, but she just, she just knows the benefit of eating a good sandwich. I mean, it doesn't have to be fancy. Nothing's fancy these days. It's just good ingredients, you know, prepared simply,

yeah, and that's what's so fantastic about your books, is that the recipes are very simple once you have the good ingredients. So take me inside that. It has to be me when you moved to Sydney and then were cooking with friends and experiencing food in a different way in a city. How did
that inform your approach?

Well, it's, I mean, that just sort of deepened it, I guess, because suddenly, there I was in a shared house, you know, with roommates, and everyone was cooking different things, and I remember the first thing I made, and actually, I was standing in a friend's garden getting poppies, poppies out of her
poppies going on. God, like,like, Molly catsons, Ukrainian poppy seed cake. And I was like, Oh, my God, that was the first recipe that I made as, you know, as a young adult living without my parents, and I remember people saying, you should sell this. It's not just made it once, you know, anyway, it was

(05:22):
like, so I did turn to, Iremember turning to that book, and, you know, it was probably everyone had it then. But I I learned a lot. I mean, I lived with a vegan and people into macrobiotics. And I remember someone saying, Oh, you've got your you guys are inner city hippies. I was like, Oh, is that
what you call people that cook?Like, you know, we did. We used to roast vegetables and grind our own millet for porridge, for God's sake. I mean, and Sydney has great cafes and great places to eat. And we ate out a lot. I mean, I remember 2am going out to eat, and, you know, all those great falafels and focaccia

(06:00):
sandwiches. Oh, my God, in thecafes in Sydney, I feel like it was a real breakfast culture, like as it still is, right? And so that, really, that was I loved, that I loved the cafes, but, yeah, living with other people and learning other things, and then IKU restaurant, which really was an insane,
yeah, like, I used to just sitthere and just be like, Wow, the food tasted so good. And just one meal of the day served all the way through until it ran out. Yes, there was no massive menu trying to please everyone. It was just like people that went there wanted it. You know, there was this Japanese garden

(06:35):
out the back, one bar with fouror five seats, banchor tea. I mean, I still die for that kind of thing, so that, you know, I would go there all the time. And Holly Davis now is like a huge inspiration to me, and we're connected, and she's got other great books, and the journey she's taken is very inspiring to

(06:56):
me as well, because she reallyreached into traditional cultures through her fermentation and all of these things. So I feel like that was the beginning of me learning about traditional, home cooked Japanese food, which just is, to me, the best, so healthy and delicious and grounding, and
it's what I turn to for comfort.I think, you know, yeah, Dookie beans, throw some chestnuts in and it's like, luxurious, you know, yes, add steamed vegetables, greens, a bit of gamazio. I mean, you just can't go wrong, you know, have it cold in a piece of nori with some avocado, yum.

And so then when you go to Amsterdam and you find yourself working in a Japanese restaurant in Holland, yeah, that was really the birth of you being a pastry chef and starting to experiment with all of these vegan desserts using Kuzu and arrowroot and and all that

sort of thing. Well, IKU started it out for me, so I would expect sugar and things like this, and things like this, and I was kind of trying to mimic what they were doing. And I didn't really know much about it, but I, but I was driven, and then I was around other people in different cafes
that were making stuff like tofucheesecake, and, you know, so I was around it a bit, but I hadn't really dabbled until I went to Amsterdam. And I was like, I got there two weeks later, I had this job that I get for two years. Like it was crazy, but I just was like, Okay, I have to work. I want to

(08:24):
travel. I need money. Got thereand, and so I got this job at she's in, which was just again, like, I die for this food. I mean, it's no no longer, unfortunately. Well, it was a long time ago, but it was a Japanese guy, and he was married to a Dutch woman, and they were macrobiotic, but he was
Japanese, so it was really aJapanese restaurant, and then all these macrobiotic cooks worked there. So they served fish, but the desserts were Kuzu and arrowed. And this Japanese woman who was making them said, you know, I was waitressing, and they let me waitress because I spoke English, and English was

(08:59):
the main language there. Ididn't have to speak Dutch, so I started waitressing, and they could just tell, because every day, every day, we'd get this incredible meal. And I was just like, there for it, asking questions, listening to the chefs explain it, and just be like, so into it. And then the
owner, nor he said to me, do youwant to make desserts? And I was like, Yeah, but you know, you have to, like, show me. So I went in and she said, this is Kuzu. This is arrow root. He's amazaki. You know, we were using things like that. And only rice syrup, I think was the only sweetener. Oh, there they have

(09:33):
concentrated pear juice andapple juice that they used in the health food stores. So they actually have fantastic health foods there. I mean, the health food store is still it was just so many amazing products. Then, even then, I remember thinking, anyway, she taught me, and then they're like, Okay, here you go.
You can come whenever you want.So I used to just go early in the morning so I could be alone. And I'd just dream up these things and then go in and make them. And I just thought, this is the best job ever. I mean, I'm so happy I was. Was, like, it was springtime. I just remember being like, Oh my God.

(10:03):
Like, this is just the best. Iget to dream something and then create it and make and decorate it, and then I get to serve it, because I was still waitressing as well, and so I got to see people's responses without really telling them that I made it. And they were selling out every night, and people were
coming for the desserts for thisperiod that I started, and I was like, very, that's very exciting, yeah.

And then what did you learn when you moved to London and you were, you started a catering business with your friend, and you were sort of foraging and putting all these things together for these banquets for people, yeah?

That is that informal? Well, that was, yeah, that was like, I think creatively working with Rosada. She's just Rosada Hayes. She's just an amazing creative person. She was like an opera singer and in a band, but also just had this gift for cooking, but very intuitive, not a recipe in
sight. And I was recentlytelling someone that we didn't write a thing down in four years of having this business, and we, you know, and we never looked at a cookbook. I mean, it was crazy. We'd be like, they'll be like, we want to do this kind of inspired wedding. We just be like, Okay, this is what we feel

(11:10):
like doing. And we get inspiredby the markets, you know, the farmers markets. And Portobello Road had, you know, a lot of vegetable stands at the time. And then there were, there was health food stores like wild oats in Notting Hill that we used to go to and and so we'd be inspired by what we saw, but we
just didn't write a thing down.And I think creatively she she had so much more experience than me, so I learned a lot. She'd been cooking vegetarian for forever in Sydney and all over the place. So so we really just connected, and, and, and I just, I got so much confidence doing that, like, you know, realizing,

(11:48):
like, wow, we're just therewhat, you know, vegetarian food at the time, 90s London was kind of very stodgy 70s vibes, yeah, there just wasn't really anything vibrant. And we there was no Otto lengy Back then, no, no, oh my God, nothing bright like that, you know. So, so we really, we just had a good time,

(12:10):
and people responded reallywell. And we ended up getting in Vogue magazine out one of our cakes ended up in in vogue, and then we just had a sort of line of clients, you know, wanting this cake. And we did wheat Yeah, it wasn't gluten free. It was wheat free, was the thing back then. So we used barley
flour and oats and stuff, but nowheat and no spelt either. Anyway, we had fun, and it was mostly vegan and occasionally vegetarian. And, oh, we just did so many weddings. And then I said, I'd never gonna do it, not the wedding weekend. We're not meddling. Forget it. I like, like, it's too stressful.

(12:46):
There's one day of this person'slife and you're responsible to the food. I mean, it's like, a lot of stress. So, oh, and then you fall in love, yeah? Move to New York, yeah? And take me by this

Angelica Kitchen chapter, because that is when I discovered,

right? Yeah, and I'd heard about it before. In Amsterdam, people said to me, oh, you should go to Angelica Kitchen. And I thought, I just kept thinking about it. And, you know, New York's on the radar, and when I first arrived, it was the place, yeah, you're in Lach, had the worst all the time.
Well, the first time I ate therewas terrible. And I was like, just because I chose, I mean, it was a huge menu. I didn't know what to get. I was kind of like, Oh my God. And I just didn't have this experience, so I kind of went away going, Oh, it wasn't really what I expected. But later, that was when I was

(13:33):
visiting New York, and thenlater, when I moved, I kind of got it, like the Community Table, the Dragon Ball, like you get, yes, but it's a massive menu. I mean, it's like, oh my god, so I, but I was really inspired, honestly, when I first moved to be a personal chef, because I liked the idea of, you
know, just that attention todetail and and I just had never heard of it before. I mean, no one in Australia I knew hired personal chefs. I mean, what is there five people that might do that, you know, like, but New York, there's a whole lot of people of different types, just, like, just, you know, typical

(14:07):
New York, there's just a lot ofeverything, right? So I just thought, wow, that's cool that I could do that. And I think someone gave me a client that they didn't want, or something. I started working in a restaurant first, in the basement, like, just, you know, prepping and, you know, learning
all these great recipes withAmanda Cohen, actually, who owns Dirt Candy. We were, yes, yeah, so it's been cool to see what, you know, what she's gone and done that. We used to just log it out. We were, oh my god. We just never got on top of the to do list, I remember. And I was like, Oh my God. But then I

(14:42):
started working privatelythrough people I had met there. And, yeah, I just loved that. It was just so different from these, you know, big, huge weddings and restaurants and just like nothing I'd ever done before. And I really enjoyed it, and I gave it my all, you know, like I'd write everything down,
which I'd never done. Um, youknow, like, what I was doing and, and I discovered the Farmers Market at Union Square, and that really, like, became the source of inspiration for the 20 years, you know, that and, and for, like, working on my book. I mean, basically, I was going there and just being

(15:16):
like, oh my god, like the microseasons and peak summer and fall and early fall and late fall and winter. I mean, it's just, it's an explosion of seasonal produce at its peak, you know. So I felt so lucky to live so close, and I got to go there all the time and shop for my clients, which was just a pleasure.

And so take me into the it has to be me moment where you then, after not writing recipes down, and then writing recipes down, then writing a cookbook and having to meticulously measure and write home cooks could make the recipes, yes.

How did I learn that? I don't know, but I'm so particular and fussy about like, you know, someone doing something that the way it's meant to be, if they want to, right, if they're following a recipe they want to. So I really paid attention to that, and I learned as I did it. I mean, I
guess I'd done some recipes for,you know, magazines and websites before, but I think my, I think what happened for me is I'd, I was, I ended up at Angelica Kitchen, executive chef for, you know, seven years, and, and then I was like, Okay, I've done the personal chef I was teaching and all of these things and, and

(16:32):
then I was like, I have to do abook. Like, I don't really care what it takes. But that's just, I didn't even, I didn't think it through. I was just like, I've got to say goodbye to Angelica, because I can now teach and do work a bit more freelance, like like I was beforehand. And then I thought, I need to focus on
this. And it took a while, but Ifound an agent, and then, you know, one step at a time, but, but I think I was just like, I didn't think beyond just writing the book. Honestly, I just wanted to just have that book the way I wanted it in my hands, and just be like, great, I've just recorded everything up till

(17:05):
now, you know. And, and, youknow, that's a long process, as you know, and it's, like, really exhausting. And I just, I guess I was up for that challenge, you know, at that point. And, and I just, and you borrowed

money, you borrowed money to write that book, didn't you?

Yeah, yeah, I did. I was like, okay, if I'm going to do this, I really this, you know, this, you know, my sort of dream creative project, because there'd been other books possible before, there'd been a couple with other people, and it just never felt right, or it never took off, all right, we
tried, and then it was like,okay, you know, maybe later, or whatever. And then I just thought, I need to write my book. Like I just had so much to share, and I and I'm just so much experience and so much love for food. I think that's really what it came from. It's like growing up with this love for

(17:55):
food, but then exploring, like,you know, all these different sort of, I guess, roads that you can just whole food is very broad, but, you know, vegan, and, you know, macrobiotic, and then, you know, a little bit of raw thrown in being in New York, you know, at certain times, you know, there was so much to
learn. And then I was like,Okay, so, and I took a really long time, and I actually quit everything else I was doing, and that's why I had to borrow money to do it, because I just felt like, if I'm really going to do this properly and really indulge in this creative process, I just need no distractions. And I just

(18:30):
said no to everything. I mean, Iwas like, I took it very seriously, you know, up, up all very early in the morning, trying to get this redoing, redoing, redoing, until it was right, you know. And, and sometimes things are just right straight away, but you still have to prove it, you know. So I
really, I really took that time.

Yeah, and I love the the revised forward to the book for the 10 year anniversary edition, where you said I wanted to create something useful and timeless that could draw people into the kitchen and impact the way they cook and eat, and teach people how to be part of a regenerative food system and
using local and seasonalingredients and growing your own food, supporting local farmers, stocking your pantry using Just beautiful ingredients, like you were saying, I really love how the book takes you through the seasons and teaches you how to stock your pantry with basics and then use them in a variety

(19:31):
of different ways and combinethings in really beautiful ways, depending on what seasonal produce you have. So I want to ask you about some of this core stuff that you're using all the time, and how it just starts with stocking your pantry. Yeah, that's always the starting point for you, isn't it?

Yeah, it is, and it's and it's not just, you know, it's not just some grains and beans. Yeah, because it's like, those things need a little spark, don't they, you know? And it's not like me, it's not chili sauces, and that's just not what I'm after. But it might be for someone else, but for me, it's
like some toasted sunflowerseeds in my really simple salad, like that, to me, elevates it like it's just turns it from just like leaves and a few herbs and maybe some good olive oil, and you've got your apple cider vinegar, some good sea salt. It's all like the good stuff, right? But then it's like, no a

(20:32):
bit of avocado or some localgoat cheese or toasted seeds, like, just takes it. It's something different for me. And it's not nuts, actually, in a salad. I just love seeds. I love seeds a lot, actually. And I realize, like, brown rice with toasted sesame seeds is just like what is happening. It is so
good now that rice has to besoaked for me, and, you know, cooked properly, and long and slow, and, you know, all those things. But it's a no brainer. Once you've done it a few times, you can do it in your sleep, right? And so I and the soaking and the making things, it becomes part of a sort of a

(21:09):
routine in your kitchen. Notthat you're stuck to it at all, but it's just like, sometimes I'm just like, oh, what's tomorrow? I don't know, just soak some quinoa. Just soak some something. If it's winter, it's like, soap millet. You know? It's just what I keep doing, and I keep doing, and I don't even
know what I'm doing with it, butat least in the morning, you've got something going on,

and yeah, and then you can mix and match things, you know, so much in this book, you know. And it's about sort of foraging in your house and your fridge and your pantry of what you've got, and putting these different elements together. And that's what you you teach us so beautifully in these books. I
love the plan, the weekly menuplanner, where you just sort of walk us through how to use what you've got after you've soaked your quinoa, or you've got your black rice, you've got your toasted sesame seeds, you've got your gamma zero, you've got your sea vegetables, you've got some roasted vegetables, and how you

(22:03):
could throw that together andmake a bunch of different

Yes, yeah, it's talk me through the Yeah, go ahead. No, no, I'm just gonna say it's so simple, like slicing some scallions and slicing a few more extra and putting them in a jar in the fridge really does make a difference to your plain bowl of brown rice with a bit of tamarind seeds like that, just
takes it to another one, youknow, and then the bit of toasted nori, like the nori stale, right? Because you opened it a while ago, but you just toast that Nori, and then you're having that with that. And it's like, you know, so there's just steps, like, how much time do you have? And I feel like, if

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it's there, and you kind ofknow, you just wave it over the flame, it's like it and then we know we're getting that protein and those minerals and like, I think the driving force for me used to be because I wanted to really look after myself, but it was also flavor. And to me, it's just what speaks to me. Like, I
just want that food, like, youknow, and I also want toast and butter and all the other things, but I just really want to ground with those as meals, you know. So anyway, sorry to interrupt you, but yeah, no,

no, I love please. Please interrupt me all you want. I'm loving it. Talk to me about why the preparing of the grains and the beans and activating your nuts and seeds and embracing the slow preparation of these beautiful foods is so important, right?

It is the core. I mean, if you are relying on rice and beans and or grains and beans and seeds and nuts like I am and most vegetarians and vegans and people actually that eat well, right? You need to activate them, because they're dormant in your pantry and they have nutrient blockers that are
activated through soaking. Now,when you soak, you initiate the sprouting process, which is the most nutritious phase of a seed, which is a grain or a bean, right? It's the most nutritious phase of its life, is that activation and that beginning of sprouting. So when I learned that from Paul Pitchford in the

(24:16):
late oh, I love that book somuch. There is no other book. Oh, it's the Bible, yeah, survival. And he just revised it. That's all. It's three revisions. We'll never do another one, I doubt. Anyway, it's like, that was like, oh, like, I don't want to be eating dormant nuts. And, see, I mean,
you know, especially grains,like I don't want to be and then I realized, wow, it feels really good because it's more digestible. You absorb more of the nutrients too. So it's like, there's so many reasons to do it, plus it starts you off and it's already one wash. Like, I don't wash it, I just don't even

(24:52):
think about it. Put in a potwater by next day, swish it around. That's one wash. Wash it again. Put the fresh water. Of and go and, you know, there's other things you can do. Add a squeeze of lemon, a bit of vinegar, sauerkraut juice, some sourdough starter, whatever. That will further activate them.
You can then leave them in astrainer, covered so that they really will start growing a sprout, which quinoa does in, you know, hours, which you know. So you can go further. But just that beginning, I think Paul also recommends pinch of salt, which I have done, and has done, so you know, which adds minerals

(25:29):
as well. So I think it's justsuch a nice it just feels good to me, and it's part of that ritual of feeding yourself well, right? And if that's all you do to your brown rice, then that's great, you know? That's a great start. And then

for and it's not eating food that's alive, yes, yes.

Even though you're cooking it, it's activated, right? So it's actually supposed to be like that in traditional cultures did this. They shook it off into the ground. It would sprout, then it was ground into whatever, and use to cook. So I feel like, yeah, I feel like it's a really important part.
And I feel better using sproutedflours too. I mean, I don't do that myself, because in America, you can get so many, so many companies, they're doing such a great job. So when I'm making pancakes with brown rice flour and buckwheat flour for my kids, in the morning, I feel actually really good that it's sprouted,

(26:23):
because it's like, wow, they'regetting, they're really getting these nutrients and able to absorb them more. And I noticed doing it. I when I first started doing it, like, 25 years ago, I remember feeling much better. I just remember feeling like, like, I just noticed it, especially in the morning, like,
Wow, I feel really grounded andcentered from the millet product like this. And now hard to kind of go back. I mean, in a pinch, I'm like, oh, okay, you got to have brown rice. Are you sure haven't sleep now, I think you can probably get in Australia too, sprouted dry brown rice, so that in those moments, you know

(27:02):
you can, but I do also noticeyou get that perfect stickiness that I love.

So let's talk about the texture and stuff, because that's another thing that's so fabulous about your books, is teaching us how to combine grains and the beautiful flavor, the nuttiness, the sweetness, the earthiness, the texture, the slight stickiness that happens when you combine

(27:28):
rice and amaranth, when youcombine, you know, these different things. So talk, talk me through a bit more about that and why that's so magical for you.

Yeah, well, I love I discovered sweet rice in Amsterdam with these macro shifts. They used to use it and cook it quite wet, actually, alone. And then I started combining it, because it was sort of hard to get an expensive back in the day, I would combine it with brown rice. And that
just became my signature. Onecup brown rice, half cup sweet rice. It was just like, oh, you can't get better than this. But then I love

Unknown (28:01):
it when you included that in the first book. So simple.

I know it's so basic, but a lot of people don't know about it, and then some people still can't get it. So later on, I worked out you can do it without and it's totally fine. If you soak it, you still get a beautiful texture with short grain, brown rice, which is just my favorite. But then I
was like, Oh, well, amaranth,super high in protein. Like, maybe, you know, it's a complete protein, right? More calcium than milk. I'm like, oh, there's so many people are going to want to include this. So I did a version with that, and I think you can add some quinoa. I can't remember all the versions in

(28:39):
that first book, but I just goback to that brown rice ratio, just, you know, weekly, at least once a week, probably twice. And it's, it's so good.

Yeah, it's so good. And the and also combining the fibrous and starchy and protein rich flowers to create these beautiful textures in the baked goods, in your muffins, in your crusts, in the tarts, and all of these different things, and then being able to use the seasonal vegetables. So take me

(29:13):
inside how the tart section ofthe book, with all of those beautiful different crusts and all the different nuts and seeds and all the different beautiful vegetables and fruits and purees and, oh my God, all the bean pates and all these incredible things. How that then formed the basis for your next book,

right? Well, yeah, that was the first photograph ever taken, the spring and summer tarts. It must have been spring or summer that we did it, and I was up since, oh my god, like almost the whole night, because I'd had to get those perfect strawberries, which meant going there myself to the
farmer's market. I had anassistant or two at the time, but still, I was the one pressing every crust, because I did not want it up, right? And, yeah, when you do a group photo. You can't have one. That's not good, right? I didn't know that at the time. It was a very ambitious first photo. We

(30:06):
borrowed this table from ABC,and was like, lugging it up three flights, you know, a whole drama. And I remember just being like, wow. And I remember something happening. One tart broke someone broke it and and we left it in, and it looks cool, and it was fine, like I didn't have it does,

Unknown (30:27):
because it's imperfect and beautiful, and that's what home cooks do. That's right, yeah,

kind of was silly to be like, Why? Who would do that? But it did set it apart, because, you know, we have these photo recipe, photo recipe, right of the but a group photo is just like, and I'm a piece. I was a pastry chef for many years, and that's, you know, and so I have so many ideas in that
department that I was like,Okay, how am I going to narrow this down? I mean, the dessert section was out of hand, actually, and it was getting out of hand. I just kept making more recipes. And my editors, like, you know, you've got to write head notes and edit every one of these. And I was like, Yeah,

(31:03):
didn't know how long it wouldtake me to write every head note, but it did inspire, because I feel like, when you see this group of all these different tarts, it makes, makes me go, oh, wow, I could do that peach tart with the Brazil nut crust and the chocolate could come with the almond and, oh,
and I've got raspberries and,you know, like, there's all these different sort of ways to combine things. And I feel like mixing and matching gives people this sense of, oh, you know, like I created it a little bit, you know, which is what you want. You want them to feel really like, empowered in the

(31:36):
kitchen. And so that sparked allthe group photos in my next book. I mean, that was also like, why am I doing this again? Why am I doing this again where I've got to make 15 nut milks to show how just versatile nut milk can be, right? And there's much, oh,

Unknown (31:55):
but that chapter is a triumph, because there's just so many exquisite

flavors from these base,

yes, recipe, and that's the thing, it's that's the thing, it's simple, right until you add something exotic. You know, it could be sea buckthorn, which I just didn't have in my life then, but you could do that now, knowing that you've seen all this, right? And so I feel like it's not like
every recipe in there was like,Whoa, that's so revolutionary. No, it's just that you can do it with anything. You can mix and match. You can just choose what you've got in your spice, draw and turn that into a really interesting nut milk with some tea. Oh my god, Chai. You know Brazil nuts. I mean, you know

(32:36):
any nut, it's like even theseeds. I love using pumpkin seeds. And I just went crazy again and had so much fun doing it. But it was something about those, those groups. I think my editor of the second book, she was like, This is great if you're a cafe owner, like, frustrated, like restaurant

(32:57):
owner, right? Because I'm like,I will do this. And this is the season, and so this is peak and, oh, my God. And that came from Angelica. I mean, you know, the owner would say to me, Amy, if there's sweet corn in every single item on the specials menu, I don't care it's we're gonna just go crazy with sweet
corn or asparagus or whatever itis. So sweet corn was in the dessert, in the soup, in the salad, in both specials, you know, or maybe we'd leave it out of one in case someone was allergic or something. But think about all those two. But, you know, it's just like a celebration. I think that's,

(33:30):
that's the thing is, you wantpeople to feel like that and not be like, here's a zucchini recipe with tarragon and mint and lime. I don't have those ingredients. Oh, well, can't make it. And then they forget about I forget about it. When I look at a book and there's tomatoes on in season, I've
forgotten when tomato seasoncomes around. To go back and look at that recipe, which book is it in? You know, that kind of thing. So I really need a manual for what is the season you're in? What are you craving? What have you got? Mix and match, you know, like, how do you and it's very hard to, like, distill it

(34:01):
down like a class, when you'restanding there going, actually, I wouldn't do that, you know. So I feel like if you give a ton of examples, then someone's going to make the right decision with the macadamia nuts and the, you know, whatever they've got, yeah.

Oh, it's such a great Choose Your Own Adventure cookbook like that. These 20 chapters of these base things that you then show so many different directions that you can go in depending on what you have available, what's in season, what you can afford, or whatever it might be, and the
quality of the ingredients. Youknow, I just I remember being at your house for the waffle chapter. Do you remember that?

Like, what is it? Oh, my God. It was like, Yeah, and you were contemplating death by waffle, yeah. Oh, my God, you, you inspired me by like, I love raw waffles. I was like. Raw, sorry, not raw walnuts. And I was like, Yes, I'm not toasting them. I'm going to just keep it simple. I remember being
like, trying to simplify,because I get criticized in that first book. I mean, someone's like, Yeah, but Amy, I don't have all day. I mean, ottolinger gets the same criticism. You've got to have one day to shop, one day to cook and one day to clean up with him. And he makes that joke. And I thought, oh, that's

(35:22):
brilliant, because that's what Iget like, oh, I made your beat tarts, and it took all day, you know? And it's like, well, don't choose those recipes. There are so many simple ones, and especially in I'm talking about the first book, but the second book, I really did want to try to be not like toast the walnuts
for six minutes and thenincrease the oven or turn it off. So I tried to, like, yeah, have it just apple cider vinegar, not like crazy, different types that people may not have, and just try to keep it a bit more, even though there's matcher and there's turmeric and there's all these

(35:53):
different things in there, youcan buy them and then make that. You know, there's other things to do, so I wanted to keep it really flexible.

But yeah, that movie is, and there's, so yes, the tarts section, there's lots of different ingredients, some of the mains in the first book, but there's also recipes that have two ingredients, three ingredients, very simple ingredients. So it does run the gamut, yeah, but I take your
point in the second book, howthere were less inadverted commas, exotic ingredients that people can't get at a conventional grocery store, and it is so much more simple,

yeah, and don't forget, 10 years ago, you know, I was trying to prove something nowadays, you know, prove something about vegetarian, vegan, whole food, healthy cooking. It didn't have a beautiful representation with elegant food photos and gorgeous props. And, you know what? I
mean, it was it was it was then.It was a long time, you know, now it's so different. Things are just everything's so mainstream and and I feel like you could see it anywhere, on any kind of plate, right? A beautiful vegan tart. I mean, it's so common. But then it was really like I was trying to

(37:02):
prove that we can have thishearty, beautiful heirloom bean bourguignon. At, you know that the table for Christmas for everyone, not just the vegetarians, you know, so and I'd come out of restaurant work where, you know, you've got the help to do all the steps, and we used to do these incredible, you
know, um, Thanksgiving dinners,and so they were, like, five courses, and we spent weeks preparing, so I come out of that, like proving so, you know, there's that there in the mains. As you said, it's the main courses the rest, yeah, and

something so simple, and they're so simple and beautiful, um, talk me through your decision to make everything gluten free in the second book in whole food cooking every day

that was I was cooking for clients. Then and post that second book opened up a lot of doors for me in terms of like, exposure, and people you know found me through a Vogue article about health, where I was cooking with an editor because her husband couldn't eat dairy, and had to
be vegan, right? So I got a fewclients through that, and they all happened to be gluten free. That was becoming very big at the time, and I was working on it, you know, 2017 18 came out in 2019 and we just just, I mean, I guess it was just, was easy. There was actually nothing that I wanted to put in there

(38:25):
that was, that was glutinous,except maybe the option of using a gluten pasta for those pine nut sauces that go over the pasta. I just loved the taste with gluten free pasta. So there was, and I wasn't making any cakes or, I mean, maybe there would be a muffin. It's only now, though, that I'm actually
reintroducing some spelt becauseI can get this freshly ground stuff here. So so it was just the way I was cooking, and now you can just get a better quality of brown rice flour. And you know now, you know finer that that works really well in in gluten free baking. But yeah, there was just no gluten to

(39:02):
begin with. I didn't, I wasn'tmaking any breads. I mean, well, I was, I was making those breads, but they're quick breads. I wasn't.

Unknown (39:08):
Oh, your quick breads are so good. And those seed crackers, oh,

the crackers are great. Yeah, the crackers are those crackers,

I mean, and there's so many different flavors, but I mean, your, your use of black rice and black sesame? I just fell in love with black food. Yeah, I know, right. You know the vibrancy of the dark, rich colors and the different shades of the different seeds and grains and,

(39:36):
oh, it's just so luxurious andbeautiful

for me seeing them together again, like I spent weeks making crackers for that stack of crackers that

I'm holding on yes, that photo that answered I was like, I was so worried I was

going to drop it because I was like, the end of this image, why? I could have put it on the table. But it wasn't the same if the light wasn't right. Something. But yeah, it's, again, it's seeing that it's not just a golden cracker. If I see just a golden cracker, I don't automatically
think of the possibilities. Soreally talk

me through that the possibilities, because you are well known for saying you can never decide which direction to go in, right? Because there are so many customers,

unless you're limited by, like, okay, these whole grain crackers, you're not using any flour. I mean, I don't even think I realized at the time they were flour free, but they really made just whole grains that are cooked and blended. And it came from, like, wanting to use up leftover
cooked greens and trying up withsomething that you know, didn't taste like psyllium husks. And wasn't, you know, that just would please all my, all my clients as well, and was something you could make. And last they last week's air tide. And you know, you can't still today. You cannot buy healthy

(40:56):
crackers easily unless they're,like, $15 you know what I mean, yeah, or they're raw, and the flax gets stuck in your teeth. Or, you know, like, I, I purposely avoided flax. I think, I don't think I use much in those, but yeah, so still, I feel like, yeah, the possibilities are just so
endless when you have justgorgeous ingredients, right? Whether that's a pantry of dry goods, a farmer's market full of produce. I mean, how do you decide, right? It's, it's some, it's, it's a real journey. And I feel like now I know, just go, why is that eggplant speaking to me? Why is the turmeric jumping

(41:34):
out of the drawer? You know,like, you just sort of learn to listen and and just follow. Well, I'm also under a time constraint. Like, seriously now, but, and so I can't just, like, dream up dinner, but it used to be that, but now it's like, Okay, quickly and like, what's calling to me, You know what I
mean? Like, what I don't reallyquestion why I just go with that, and then I try to please all the other tastes that I'm cooking for too. But there just is that you've gotta understand what you crave and what you want to eat. Once you know that, then it's like, turn that millet into porridge, or is it a crepe? Or

(42:14):
is it, you know what I mean,like you'll if you feel like a comforting bowl of warm greens in the morning and porridge, then that's the way you'll go. And then you're like, oh, what kind of nut milk can go on there? And what kind of top am I going to put on? Or do I have any fruit? Should I soak some
dried fruit? You know, like, so,I guess it's that, that thing of really understanding what you want when you're cooking for yourself and other people that aren't as fussy as you too. Like, it's like, you know, like, I get to do that, like, follow, kind of what I want, but then pleasing other people too. And

(42:46):
it's funny how things can cometogether once you know these structures, you know, once you know about the rice, and it's like, that's on cooking good. Now, how am I going to dress it up? You know, what do I feel like? Whatever I'm like, you know, what do I have? That's the other thing, yes.

And cooking, cooking your way through your two books really sets you up to have those skills and that knowledge and that structure to then mix and match. So it really is a journey where you cook your way through at home in the whole food kitchen, get those basics, learn about the grains and the

(43:22):
beans, and steaming the grainsto reheat them, and all the things that you teach about, toasting the seeds, and then going into the second book, whole food, cooking every day, and then learning how to mix and match and work with with the seasons, with what you've got, listening to what you need, what
you want, and having theConfidence to mix and match. One of the most helpful sections for a novice Cook is the section on all the different ways that you can cook vegetables, from roasting, steaming, sauteing, stir, frying, fermenting, you know, pickling, all different ways. And the sea vegetable

(43:55):
section and the charts that gothrough air all these different vegetables and the cooking times and how you do it. I mean, it really is just a bible of how to do it. So what are some ingredients that go to vegetables, and I know that depends on the season that are just so basic and easy for the

(44:19):
average person to just get intoand just infuse beautiful flavor very quickly for you, well,

certain, even though, yeah, you're thinking about the season, right and right now we've got these gorgeous zucchini that aren't big, they're buttery, you know, and they've just got such a beautiful, delicate texture. And I'm steaming them, and people probably go, you know, but
steaming them lightly, you know,till they're just done, tossing them with a bit of olive oil. And just like a ton of herbs is just so good, right? And so there's vegetables, though, like, I would never do that in winter. I just wouldn't right. Zucchini has traveled. It's sitting around. It's not in

(44:55):
season. But carrots, I have tosay, like, I'm still using some storage. Can. Carrots, because the new ones are just coming in. And I'm just like, wow, I just love these steamed like, the new ones are amazing. I've been eating, but, like, steamed carrots. I was just saying this to a vegetable farmer the other
day. I was just like, I lovecarrots. Like, I mean, they're delicious. Carrots, like, they're so good. I've been blending them into baked goods so that the kids are having them. I'm blending them into smoothies. And I, you know, I'm steaming them, or we're just eating them right now with a

(45:24):
tiny bit of ghee on top, or somechives. I mean, it's so good I haven't even made a soup with them for ages, right? Like, yum. A plain carrot soup, likes, in my second book, too, with all the variations. And there's a good, oh, that, Oh, there's good carrot one in the first one too. So it's like, yeah, you can make
something, or you can juststeam. I mean, it is, like, so underrated, knowing, knowing, just, you know and like, it's not like, I know how to layer them so that nothing gets overcooked. I often burn the part because I didn't. I often overcook something I don't care, but, or you just do them

(45:57):
separately. That's my advice.Just steam the carrots, steam the squash. Then you'd have to think about it, you know. I mean, I could figure out, like, how to do things, but it depends how you cut it. But until it's soft, they're fantastic leftover, because they can get frozen and used in smoothies,
blended into, not, you know,baked goods. I've got recipes on in, on the work in the works for those, I can't wait, yeah, but you know, that way I think those, I think those simple things are just often the best. And no, you know, it's not requiring time. And I feel like that's one thing. I did not have

(46:30):
children doing those books, so Ihad the time to really dedicate, but now I'm just taking shortcuts. But there it's all there, like, how long to steam the vegetables, all that magic, mineral, spice I was remembering, and I was like, Oh yeah, that's a good thing to have around. I'll make some, you
know, and it lasts, and I don'talways have time, but maybe I do, you know, like, it's sort of like, now I'm just, like, taking bits. I'm still, what am I making that's really different, nothing much, you know, it's variations and and I think that that's really what I wanted from that, was you could, you could

(47:03):
be educated in cooking foryourself. And a lot of people write to me with that that they just learned to cook from my books. And I'm like, Great, yes, really what you want?

It's so fantastic. And I what I love about what you were saying before is, with all of your knowledge and all of your experience, you still burn the pot, you still overcook things, and who cares? That's one of the greatest things about your sub stack and your Instagram feed, is your post.
Yeah, well, I overdid this one,and this is what it looks like. And just being so real with it that we don't have to be perfect, you're going to make mistakes, no matter how many, how much you've been doing this, and it's just all about giving yourself the freedom to give it a go and try different things

(47:47):
and throw different thingstogether, and you might discover the next thing that you love more than anything right now. And that's what I love so much about, about what you're putting out there. You spoke before about tea, oh gosh, and I know your love of tea, and the way that you're incorporating tea to
infuse all this beautifulflavor, not just with the nut milks and the butters, but with all kinds of things, smoothies and so forth, cakes, everything. Talk to me about throwing tea into the mix and getting these beautiful flavors. Because I think that's something that a lot of people overlook,

right? Yeah, and I had too, I think I used to just think of tea for drinking and and that's it. But then I did do the Earl gray in the tart one time a long time ago, and I thought, Oh, God, that is such a good infusion, like, why not infuse things? If you're going to use water in porridge or in

(48:47):
nut milk, it could be infused,right? And it often. And now I'm brewing the nettle tea, which is high in iron, and I'm using it as the water in the smoothie, because you're creating a nut milk in that smoothie, right, with cashews or whatever nuts or nut butters you're using, so you need water, so, yeah, you could
infuse it for health benefits,but also for flavor. And I think that that's that. I mean, I just love drinking. I just love tea. I mean, green tea is an absolute favorite, and then black teas can be delicious in Chai, and, oh, great flavors. And they just elevate things. You know, it's just another way to mix it up.

(49:19):
It's you don't have to, but it'ssort of like your spice draw, you know, you can, you can use it in the similar way, and just to sort of change things. And I feel like, because no one wants to drink the same thing or eat the same soup or eat the same porridge. I mean, I eat very simply, and it's often the same,
but just like little tweakshelp, you know, even if it's oatmeal, like, cook it with some chai instead of water, and it just sort of like, oh, this is, maybe you don't love it, but it's like a nice change. And you might discover like, oh, it goes really well with, like, a little bit of this kind of nut milk,

(49:55):
or, you know, or coconut milkinstead or something, you know. So, mm.

Hmm, and just mixing things together. It doesn't have to just be one milk doesn't have to be one grain. It doesn't have to be one seed. You know, that's what you do so beautifully with these very, very basic ideas. Is just elevating them with a combination with a herb, a spice
tea, a super food, you know,just making it a little bit different. And I just like, I love the word Elevate, because it doesn't actually take a lot you use the word, what use the term. It wasn't revolutionary before, and it doesn't

have to be No, no. I mean, I kind of, it's kind of exhausting to eat. Revolution and food, isn't it? I mean, you know, when you want to have your mind blown, like, in that way, you go to some incredible restaurant, and it's not about getting a meal, is it? It's about like, wow, trying all
these different things, but, buthow good do you feel? Like that's something for entertainment. And, you know, very rare. I mean, rare in my life right now, but, but I can read a menu and get as much satisfaction, you know, read a menu and be like, Oh, wow, they mix that. I wonder how that is.

(51:11):
And I can just wonder, I don'tactually have to eat it. Sometimes I'm disappointed, because I sort of imagine this amazing thing, like, you know, whether it's a pizza or something, and then I'm like, Oh, didn't really work or something, but the idea stays with you. And so I feel like
those ideas, you can just readmenus and just get so many ideas, and look at your garden, and get so many ideas, or the CSA share or the farmers market, and just like, oh, that combination. Like, you know, you might have sauteed some zucchini, and you're having it on the sourdough, and you're

(51:43):
like, wow, why is this so good?You know, it's, it's just, it's just trying things out that you happen to have around, and that's the fun of it, I guess. I guess it's just such joy. And you get

to the discoveries that you make when you just give things ago, and you use ideas that you've, you know, discovered in your books, and then go, Oh, that's right. Amy did that. I'm going to try that. Oh yes, look at that at the farmers market. Oh yeah. And you just sort of start to layer and
layer and your experiences andyour knowledge, and then your confidence grows talking about trying things and having to adapt and be different, and being at different stages of life, and having not as much time, and having these young boys to feed who sometimes don't want to eat vegetables, as you

(52:33):
say all the time. What are youexperimenting with? And you know, what are you trying to get more vegetables into them. You spoke about blending the carrots into smoothies and baked goods and so forth. What? What else is working because I know you're not the only mum out there.

That's trouble. I didn't think I'd be here. Honestly. I thought if they knew what good food was, they'd just eat it, you know? But, yeah, it is not the way it is. It's a textural thing. Like Ezra cannot swallow hummus. Like he just he's like, cannot do it, right? Whereas the other kid is, like,
got it all over him and it'seating it. So everyone's but, but for me, with it's just trying things out, I guess, and having things around that they're the sort of way I do it is, like, I know he's going to be hungry soon. I'm just going to put a pile of green beans there, or some fennel stalks.

(53:20):
Who knew? Like, I thought wewere just like, cutting the fennel bowl, but no, Ezra is eating the stalks. So I grew fennel, so he's just munching on that. I'm like, it's gotta have His goodness, right? I know it's good for digestion. He'll eat fennel feeds too. So obviously he just knows what he needs. Oh,
so, yeah, so. And I'm like,good, right? It's okay. It's like, you know that that might be it for the day, and it often is. But I also learned to look at a three day period, and that was really helpful. Someone said to me, it was like, just look at the three day period, and it's like, yeah, there's nori in

(53:49):
there. There's some chlorellatablets. There's a few raw carrots, there's some fennel. There's the beets in the smoothie that is chocolate and raspberry with beets. There's, you know, the steamed carrots that I mix two cups into 12 muffins. I think that's pretty good, you know, they get two of
those, you know. So, so it'skind of also like, not, I'm not like, here, you know, make sure, you're trying to make sure that he eats the pasta, right, which is plain, because he doesn't want anything on it. It's like, actually, I think the muffin is more nutritious. It's got the vegetables in it. It's got

(54:21):
almond meal, it's got sproutedflowers, it's got some eggs, some yogurt, you know, coconut oil or ghee. I'm like, that's actually fine, you know. So I've really sort of switched, like, the savory and the sweet, and it's okay. Like, before I was like, Why do you want to put vegetables in something that
then you're adding maple syrup?It's like, what is the point? But I'm like, well, the maple syrup is going to happen, whether it's from the bottle in the pantry when I'm not looking or smoothie with some vegetables, so I might as well be getting the veggies in there, right? He's like, Oh, I just

(54:54):
drank it all. I'm like, great,you know? So it's really that balance of just like a. Day they're pulling a popsicle out of the freezer. Luckily, I made them, and they've got cashews and dates and, like, I'm good with that. That's healthier than a lot of kids eat for breakfast, you know? So if it happens first
thing in the morning, it's okay,yeah, I guess it's what you have around too. But, I mean, it's just impossible to avoid, and I'm not perfect, and I just let them have. I mean, they have, they're out having ice cream right now. You know? It's like, that's good. It's like, whatever. Oh, it's got to be

(55:26):
balanced and joyful and fun,exactly. And they had ice cream last night. It's not like, it's rare. So, yeah, Summer, yeah, it's summer. We're doing it all the time, and, you know? And I just noticed some kids just want to eat fruit, and that's okay too. Like it's like there is a lot of nutrients in that fresh
fruit, so and then tons ofberries in season. And, you know, so I don't know, it's kind of like I really had to do a big let go with Ezra, because it's just like he just wasn't eating what I was making. And it now I know it's not my cooking, because, so I'm like, thank God.

So what's interesting, interesting to you right now, in terms of ingredients that you're just really curious about, that you want to experiment with more and share with your your community, on sub stack and Instagram. What's exciting? Like, I know you went through a massive
Reishi tea phase, and you wereloving, you know, all of the you know, you you kind of take us through these,

yeah. What are you doing? Because it has current obsessions. Yeah, I don't, yeah, I don't have time to invent something that I'm not doing, right? So, yeah, now I'm focusing on, there's a post coming out soon that I'm focusing on, like, what I do with my CSA and, like, it's, you
know, you don't know what you'regoing to get. No one's CSA is going to be the same. But it's like strategies to boil the beets and steam the carrots and have those ready, wash the greens, make a salad dressing that can sit in the fridge, and you can use it on all your salads. And then I made this

(56:58):
magic spice mix, magic sprinklethat is, like a yummy sprinkle you can put with dredging, you know, cucumber slices in to eat, sprinkling it over hummus that you've made really plain that kids aren't going to want the spices, you know, like cumin and things. So it's sort of got cumin and yummy things in it.
But I am kind of gearing to, Imean, I'm, I am inspired, and I haven't gotten there yet to get a grinder for grains to really grind fresh, to make things, because I'm feeling like, wow, you know, like we do use flour, like baked goods. I mean, it's all alternative grains, mostly, but grinding it really fresh, I

(57:37):
think, is life changing,because, you know, when you have a sourdough that's brown like then they grinding the flour there and then making it right away, and there's just no time for rancidity to happen. I feel like that's something I want to explore at some point. Not there right now, um,

but I feel like that's exactly what you did as a kid. We've we're coming full circle on the veranda.

That's what used to do with your dad. Yeah, I did. That's right. Um, yeah. So I'd like to start grind, you know, grinding. Then I'm like, well, so that's I'm not doing sourdough often, you know. I'm like, oh, maybe I'd sprout them or buy the sprouted grain and grind anyway. I'll let you know
how it goes. But that'ssomething. The other thing is just using doing what I'm doing. Like, I made a deconstructed blueberry crisp the other day, and I was like, because no one wants to do it on the oven in New York summer, right? So it was like, everything was made on the stove top, and people

(58:32):
assembled it. And I thought, youknow, it's easy stuff. It's stuff that I'm doing to take to a friend's house for dinner, you know. And it travels, and it's not some fancy thing, and I made it with pantry ingredients and the blueberries that we picked. So it's that kind of thing I'm I'm trying to, you know. So it's
not just about kids, becauseit's really about everyone. You know, some kids are going to love it. Some kids aren't. Some kids want the cream or the coconut yogurt or whatever you want to, you know, mix it up with

so is that the next book?

Oh, I don't know. You know, I'm using up for my

Unknown (59:08):
coronary when I even mentioned that, I know.

I mean, it is so. I mean people, I mean, I didn't even remember how much work it was five years later, or three years later, when I, you know, you forget, don't you? You just forget those. Yeah, it is such a slog, but, you know, you could incorporate it into your life, trying, but I feel like I'm just
enjoying that instantaneousthing about like, public, you know, it's like blog. It's reminding me of, like when I had a blog, that excitement, that joy of sharing, and immediate response taking the photos. It's actually what you had for dinner. That kind of thing. I am loving. But, you know, I'm not

(59:47):
saying no to another one. That'slike, very user friendly for busy moms, yeah,

yeah, yeah. I know a lot of people that would sign up to get a copy of that. I. Oh, gosh, I could talk to you about this all day long. I close every episode with the same question, and I'm going to ask it to you in a slightly different way, within the context of food. For somebody that wants to eat
healthier, just doesn't knowwhere to start, doesn't think that they can cook this way, has been listening to you speak about how easy it is and how beautiful and joyful it is. It's like, yeah, no, I'm not a cook. I can't do this. Doesn't feel like they have what it takes to make it happen in their life.

(01:00:31):
What would you say?

Amy Chaplin (01:00:33):
Make the brown rice. Start with brown make the rice with the sweet rice, yeah, just, you know, and it, and it could be the quinoa, but the rice, I'm telling you, is something about rice, isn't it? I mean, I mean, it's no wonder. It's been with us for millennia, right? I think, I think starting

(01:00:55):
with that, looking at, there's apage in the first book with all the toppings that I use. I can't remember what number it is, but, you know, it's got, I was using a lot of flax oil then, but, like, you know, the oil, the scallions, the toasted seeds, you know what we talked about, I think starting there, getting a
good pot to make it in. Youknow, there's things that, like, you go to an Airbnb and you're like, Oh, that's right, you do need a good pot. Like, you kind of forget, like, you think everyone's got them, but it's good to get a good la Cruz, a heavy pot, you know, or you can use another kind, but I feel

(01:01:27):
like rice just comes out thebest, like that. I'm not expecting someone to buy a pressure cooker right off the bat, right? You can rinse canned beans, boil them briefly, and they're good. You can combine. And I have all that like ways to do it if you don't have pressure cooker, and I don't think you
need one immediately. I thinkjust starting with the rice and the toppings, you know, if you want some more protein, boil an egg or add some beans. And just start there. Start really simple. And, and then start, you know, adding vegetables, like what we talked about, steaming them and and maybe there's a

(01:02:02):
dressing look. Sometimes youjust need a drizzle of tahini. I mean, roasted sweet potatoes with a bit of tahini. I mean, like, I'm not making a special sauce. Delicious. Yeah. It doesn't mean you need a ton of dishes or recipes or, you know, fiddly things, but some good salt, some good olive oil,
tamari is key. That's what a lotof people they buy this kicker, man, like soy sauce. I'm like, no wonder it's not it's awful. Like, just get a good bowl of tamari. Traditionally made. That's all you want. You've got to look at that. It's made, not in Japan necessarily, but traditionally made, where you

(01:02:38):
ferment the soybeans for theright amount of time, then you're getting all those nutrients, but the flavor is so good. But you know, I don't have tamari, I'm just using some salt, you know, it's okay too. Yeah, yeah.

Tess Masters (01:02:53):
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the way you show up with food and these beautiful books. And I'm excited to see what's next.

Amy Chaplin (01:03:03):
Thank you so much. Tess, thanks for having me. It's such a joy to talk to you. Really. Thank.

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