January 14, 2025 • 40 mins
Have a question you want answered? Submit it here!
Understanding how to set meaningful goals can transform your self-esteem and overall happiness. This episode emphasizes the importance of intrinsic versus extrinsic motivation, exploring self-concordant goals that resonate with individual desires over societal expectations.
• Discussing personal motivations behind goals
• Highlighting the concept of self-concordance
• Distinguishing between intrinsic and extrinsic motivations
• Introducing the PIES framework for holistic goal-setting
• Importance of setting achievable and stretch goals
• Exploring the need for self-compassion in goal pursuit
• Opening the door for future personal growth and achievement
Let’s dive in!
Your Host: Kimberly Beam Holmes, Expert in Self-Improvement and Relationships
Kimberly Beam Holmes has applied her master's degree in psychology for over ten years, acting as the CEO of Marriage Helper & CEO and Creator of PIES University, being a wife and mother herself, and researching how attraction affects relationships. Her videos, podcasts, and following reach over 500,000 people a month who are making changes and becoming the best they can be.
🔗 Website: https://itstartswithattraction.com
📱 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kimberlybeamholmes
👀 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@kimberlybeamholmes
Follow our other channels!
📺 https://youtube.com/@UC7gCCAhhQvD3MBpKpI_4g6w
📺 https://youtube.com/@UCEOibktrLPG4ufxidR8I4UQ
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So, on today's episode, we're going to talk
about how to set goals.
Yes, one of my favorite topics.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Not mine.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I don't know.
I like setting them, I likeaccomplishing goals.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
You are definitely more picky in the goals that you
set and work towards than I am.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Absolutely.
I don't do New Year'sresolutions, I just if it's a
resolution, it's a resolution Ifit's something that I strive
for.
It could it could be the 14thof July, I don't, I don't care,
but it will be time bound andwe're going to talk about that.
Did you write down smart onyour little?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
piece of paper.
I didn't, because smart goalsactually aren't the best way to
set goals.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Okay, Well, I'm going to talk about smart goals but
we will talk about it as amethod, but I'll let you present
your flawed method before I'vepresent the correct method.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Let's do that so one of the reasons that I love
talking about goals well, firstof all, I'm a pretty ambitious
person, so I love to havesomething to achieve and feel
good about myself based onachieving it.
That's probably one of it.
But goal setting in general inthe work that I've been doing
for my PhD, as you know, becauseI divulge all of my learnings
(01:11):
to you throughout the process isthat goal setting is important
for people.
It's important for self-esteem,it's important for the way that
we view ourselves a lot ofthings but the problem is in
setting goals, most peopleactually don't even know how to
set a good goal, and not just inthe sense of like being
(01:32):
specific and making smart goalsand things like that.
Most people have difficultyidentifying what it is that they
truly want to do for themselves, and that is the first thing
that we need to cover as we'retalking today about how to set
good goals, how to achieve thesegoals, because the other part
of it is in the research thatI've been doing for my
(01:54):
dissertation for my PhD.
There is research and a decentamount of it out there, that
when you work towards goals likeyou say okay, this is the goal
I have for myself, I'm going tolose 20 pounds, as an example.
If you don't hit that goal, youactually begin to experience a
decrease to your self esteem.
Another interesting thing canhappen to that if people
(02:14):
continue to not hit their goals,and because it's affecting
their self esteem, it canactually lead people to begin
lying and like, lie, cheat andsteal, so to say, even just to
themselves to make themselvesfeel good.
Because goal setting and selfesteem are so closely
intertwined that it's a way tolike preserve the way we feel
about ourselves.
(02:34):
So goal setting is importantbecause it actually has a direct
effect on how we think and feelabout ourselves, and so with
that, we need to be like seriousabout the goals that we set.
We shouldn't just throw itaround willy nilly.
When you set a goal, you'remaking a commitment to you.
That's first and foremost, andwe need to take that seriously
(02:55):
and follow through with thatcommitment.
So we'll, now that that's set,we're going to talk about how to
set good goals, what that meansand how to move forward.
So there are some indicationsfrom some recent research that
I've done in different areasthat have led, that have given
me, that have shown me that it'svery difficult for people to
(03:17):
actually choose a goal?
Because in this research,people were asked to set a goal,
like set a goal for the nextperiod of time and write it here
and those goals, and they wereinstructed to set a certain type
of goal called self-concordant,which we'll talk about in just
(03:37):
a minute.
Ok, but people would say thingslike I want to run a half
marathon over the next two weeksand it's like you're, you're
not.
Unless you have one booked andyou've been training for it for
three months, you're not runninga half marathon in the next two
weeks I mean, I've done thatwithout training okay, that's
true actually you did, but youhad been running in the army, it
(03:58):
wasn't like you went from acouch potato, so I I mean we
y'all run like five miles on aPT one morning Very rare so you
had been in the shape of running.
Anyway, yeah.
One person said get married, andit's like, okay, if you have.
If the wedding's alreadyscheduled, I guess If you're
engaged and ready to get married, great.
(04:19):
But if you are single andlooking on Bumble for your next
person, you're not gettingmarried in the next two weeks.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I mean you can, it's just probably a huge mistake
Again sure you can, but let's.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
So that was the first indication of like.
The first problem is peopledon't even know how to set goals
.
Yeah, over the next like over atwo week time frame, four week
time frame, a year timeframe,and especially self-concordant
goals.
So, according to the research,self-concordant goals are the
ones that, when people set thisspecific type of goal and
(04:54):
achieve it, leads to the highestincrease in self-esteem,
because a self-concordant goalis a goal that you actually want
to do, because you want to doit.
Yes.
Another way that people talkabout this is intrinsic
motivation.
So this is something where themotivation to do this is coming
(05:15):
from entirely within myself.
I have, like, this burningdesire within me to make this
happen, for whatever reason.
So if we think of it like as aspectrum, intrinsic motivation
would be all the way to theright and extrinsic motivation
is all the way to the left, andthen you have a motivation which
is just the lack of anymotivation.
But extrinsic motivation is I'mdoing this because I feel like
(05:39):
I have to.
It's an external.
So that might be like yourwhole office is competing in
some kind of challenge to do awhole 30 or something like that
and you don't really want to doit, but you feel like you have
to because everyone else isdoing it and maybe there's a
reward of a hundred dollars tothe person, to people who do it.
So it's like, okay, I'll do itfor those reasons, but it's not
(06:02):
because it's something I trulywant to do.
That's extrinsic motivation andnot the kind of goals we're
focused on.
Self-concordant goals are theones where you're saying, like I
genuinely have a desire to dothis.
I genuinely have a desire totravel to three different
countries this year.
I genuinely have a desire toget my VO2 max to over 50.
(06:24):
I genuinely so.
For me, like it's being ablefor each person to take time and
genuinely think about what arethe things I want.
If I take away other people'sexpectations of me, what do I
want to do?
Because I want to do it?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I think the emphasis on taking away other people's
expectations for you cannot beunderstated enough or overstated
enough, I'm sorry.
Mm-hmm.
I feel like it's understated.
We cannot overstate it.
Right.
When I was in the military andI was overweight, heavier than I
(07:03):
am now, and I was overweight,heavier than I am now.
They're not wrong to holdphysical fitness standards and
body weight standards and bodyfat percentage standards and I
made those standards even thoughI was on the higher end of what
was acceptable.
But it was other people settingthose goals for me.
And I never really aspired to domore than just meet the
(07:24):
standard, and I so.
I was one of those people whomet the standard, but I wasn't
like blowing it.
Now I am like no, I want to getto a BMI of 24.1 specifically.
That'll give me some wiggleroom to go up a little bit and
then down and oscillate betweenthe two during bolts and cuts.
So I have a specific number.
(07:45):
I have not just a specificnumber of a BMI, a specific
number of what I would weigh andall those other things, and I
have a certain amount ofcalories per day.
I'll have to stop my diet onthis day to go into maintenance
phase that I can regen, and thenI'll have to pick it back up,
and so I have all that kind ofplanned out over the next year.
Whether or not I stick with itis you know, stay tuned, we'll
(08:09):
see.
But I am now like no, this isfor me.
I decided that if I love me andif you love yourself, then when
we we see something that'sunhealthy within us, we want to
change it because we loveourselves so much.
So I think that stripping awayother people's expectations if
(08:34):
your spouse is pressuring you tolose weight because you know
they're hinting, that they'relosing attraction.
You know that that stinks.
I still think that that youshould strive to to do that, but
not because of them.
If they left tomorrow,hopefully they don't, but if
(08:58):
they left tomorrow, walked outthe door and never came back,
finding the motivation and thereason and the why within you to
do it anyway, and it's not forthem it's for you because you
love yourself, and that's that's.
That applies to just any goal.
Not, we use weight so oftenbecause it's probably the most
common one for americans to towant to do.
(09:20):
But there are so many otherworthwhile goals.
You mentioned traveling and allthose things, so Well, you can
use the pies too.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
So using physical, intellectual, emotional,
spiritual as a framework of howto set goals is helpful too.
So, physically, what do I trulywant for my physical self?
How do I want to look and feelbetter?
Want for my physical self, howdo I want to look and feel
better?
Intellectually, what are mygoals?
I truly want to finish my PhDthis year.
(09:53):
That is my number one.
For you, my number oneintellectual goal.
Emotionally, what does thatlook like?
And a lot of these are going tobe relational.
So for me, a goal that I set isthat every date that is my
child's birthday.
So, like our daughter was bornon the 9th, our son was born on
the 29th.
Is that right?
Yes, that's right, that iscorrect.
So, like that day each month, Iwant to be intentional about
(10:15):
doing something special withthem.
So having it be like a date dayand then you and I having that,
whether that be like around theday of our anniversary each
month or around your birthday,which could, like is probably
gonna be the same week mostmonths, so you know we can be
flexible about that.
But, like that's my way ofsaying, I want to be intentional
about quality time.
(10:36):
That's the goal I want to do.
And then spiritually, like,what are the goals?
So for me, I want to do morewith missions, and there's
several ways that you know ofthat that's playing out in my
life and that I'm pursuing itLike I wanted to volunteer more.
But as I sat down and thought,well, how do I want to do that,
what do I, what do I truly wantto do?
And I just know that that's theway that God is calling me.
(10:57):
So that's a goal.
And now that, like that's anexample of a goal that doesn't
have a specificity to it, like Idon't have a time with it.
I don't I'm.
It's kind of just likegenerally I'm moving in this
direction for this goal becauseI don't have enough information
yet.
But with some of my physicalgoals I'm like I'm on a pretty
stringent training plan becauseI know specifically what I want
(11:18):
to happen and that's OK.
You can have the smart goalsthat are super specific and time
bound and eventually goalsshould end up getting there.
But there's so many differenttypes of goals that a person
could have a learning goal, ahabit goal, a self-change goal,
that they're all going to lookdifferent in how you measure
them and how you track them.
(11:38):
Yes, and also a good, I think, acaveat to say here is there's
always going to be times in lifethat we do have to do things
that aren't our goals.
Maybe at work, you're given aquota you have to meet.
It wasn't the one you generated, but you have to do it.
You still get a boost inself-esteem by hitting that goal
.
It's just not the same as ifyou were to set that goal
(12:03):
yourself.
But the real gold ticket here isa self-concordant goal,
something you truly want to do.
And another key forself-concordancy is having being
able to have autonomy of thatgoal and not feeling like you
are controlled into making it.
So autonomy is I have thefreedom to choose the goal and
to go about doing it andachieving it the way I want to.
(12:26):
Yes, as opposed to controlledis here's your goal and here's
exactly how you're going to doit.
Both of them have a place, buthaving autonomy in your goal
leads to higher self-concordance, which leads to higher overall
well-being.
So that's the key here, yeah,so then, what are some
self-concordant goals you'reworking on?
What are some things thatyou're doing because you
genuinely want to, other thanweight loss?
(12:49):
You've already talked aboutthat A BMI of like 24.1.
Is that what you said?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
An O-8 of 178.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
An O-8 of 178.
But what happens if you don't?
Okay, this is going to go intomy next point.
So you want to make a goalthat's achievable, but also a
stretch is more than a stretchit is, I don't know that it's
doable.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Not.
So the end of my six month dietphase will be the end of April
Highly unlikely, unless I wereto work out really hard between
now and then or drop caloriesfurther.
I always reserve the right todrop calories a bit further, but
(13:38):
I want to do it in very tinyincrements and then wait, like
two to four weeks, to see what adifference is being made.
So not at the rate that I woulddrop calories.
It's highly unlikely to occurby the end of April, which is
when I will stop doing a dietand then I will go into, at a
minimum, a maintenance phase.
Um, for a period of time,probably about four months,
(14:03):
which is two thirds.
The length of the diet shouldprobably go the same length of
the diet.
I'm going to try and cheat anddo two thirds and then, around
the time of the holidays,getting ready to start pick back
up, because I like losingweight through the holidays.
It's actually kind of nice inthe wintertime when I and that's
kind of personal to me in thepast I put on the most weight
(14:24):
during the holidays in thewinter and I never shed it off.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
So actually losing weight over the?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
holidays feels really good.
So at the current rate, youknow, last week I think I talked
and I said I was like 202, nowI'm 201, so a pound a week,
right.
So I'm on track for about apound a week and, yeah, I won't
hit that goal.
I'll hit around half thatgoal-ish that goal.
(14:56):
I'll hit around half that goalish, uh, 12 and a half ish
pounds of fat loss by the timeI'm going to stop.
So, yeah, I'm going to have topick it back up.
I'm going to have to take abreak, just so my body can just
readjust hormones and things.
You don't want to tank yourhormones to testosterone and
things like that for men andestrogen and other things for
women.
So you don't really want totank your hormones and all that.
So you do need to take a break.
And that's part of the specificand measurable, achievable,
(15:18):
realistic part of everything.
But a lot goes into building upto the point where I even get
to a point where I'm comfortablesetting these specific goals,
charting out the time, all that.
If somebody's never even thoughtabout their macros or their or
(15:40):
even calorie tracking, orthey've never opened
MyFitnessPal or any othertracking, I don't use that one,
I use a different one, butthat's the most common one.
If they've never even thoughtabout that, then doing all these
things whether it's aself-concordant or a smart goal
is just out of reach.
(16:01):
It's just it's so far outsidethe comfort zone.
It's not that they're notintelligent enough to do it,
it's just that it's so faroutside the comfort zone that
it's so highly unlikely tohappen.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Well, I think there's aspects to it.
So, first of all, you set thegoal of losing weight because it
was something you truly wantedto do.
You don't feel like there's anoutside force or anything like
that.
Okay, so you said I want tolose weight.
So this is how it goes inphases.
I truly want to lose weight.
So this is how it goes inphases.
I truly want to lose weight.
Well then, if we're going tofollow, like, the stretch goal
(16:36):
method, so you want to, ideally,when setting goals, you want to
do something that is attainablebut a bit challenging.
Who initially wants to loseweight?
It should probably be somethinglike 10 pounds.
That is a stretch, but it's not50.
It's not 80.
Because another part of this isthe harder you set it on the
(16:58):
front end, the more likely youare to actually not even start
because it feels toooverwhelming.
So you start with 10 pounds.
Well, then you get into, like,the planning process.
Well, what is it going to takefor me to lose 10 pounds?
It means I'm going to have tostart getting like eating less.
It means I'm going to have todecrease my calories, because
that's a key part of it, and itmeans I'm going to have to
(17:19):
exercise more.
Those are the two key thingsthat have to happen.
So that's when you start kindof creating the plan that's
going to support the goal, and Ithink a smart goal is fine.
You want to be specific.
I want to lose 10 pounds bywhen?
Well, let's make that realisticto a half a pound, to a pound a
week.
Two pounds a week is prettyaggressive.
Anything more than that isstupid.
(17:40):
So make it something again thatis achievable.
Yet a stretch.
So let's say it's a pound aweek, so we're talking about a
10 week timeframe if you'regoing to set this method.
So now, specific.
And it's a pound a week, sowe're talking about a 10-week
time frame if you're going toset this method.
So now, it's specific and it'smeasurable.
How are you going to measure it?
By the scale?
Is it achievable?
Well, we've broken it down towhere it is.
Is it realistic?
We've broken it down to whereit is.
Does it have a time bound?
(18:01):
Yes, we've broken it down.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
So you saying you want to be 178?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
pounds, I would like to reach the weight of 178
pounds, which was a total of 22plus 40-ish pounds, 42 pounds
you're losing.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
So from where I started, that would be 44 total
44 total pounds.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
But the thing is that I want people to hear and maybe
even you you're not doing thisall at once, you've broken it
into steps, and I think thatit's appropriate to say, because
someone may say, like me, forexample, I may say I'd love to
weigh 130 pounds.
I weigh 143.
(18:47):
And the truth of the matter isthat's an ideal like truly in my
head.
I really just want to be like,have less fat and more muscle,
which we talked about in theepisode that we covered that, so
that I think it's like a goodgeneral thing.
But I might first say, well,I'm just going to first lose
(19:08):
five pounds, because for methat's realistic but still a
stretch.
So I want to get down to 137,138, 137, 138.
I may get there and say it'snot worth it.
I don't want to continue to dothe work to be 130 pounds, and
that's okay for people.
I think people set goals I wantto run a marathon and then they
(19:30):
run a 5k and they're like youknow what?
I'm actually good here andthat's another reason it's
important to stair step goals.
Yes, instead of setting out andsaying I'm going to run a
marathon and then you hit thehave the hit to your self-esteem
when you don't do it.
You start with I'm going to runa 5k, and then you reevaluate
and you can have this ideal inmind of you know, maybe one day
(19:51):
I want to run a marathon andI'll put that on my like to
evaluate goal list, but firstI'm just going to run this 5K
and that's what you commit toand that's a better way to do it
.
Another thing that we see ispeople say well, I want to be a
better mom, dad, wife, husband.
That's too vague.
It is too vague.
(20:12):
How can you make it specific?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
That one, I don't know Go to more baseball games
or something.
So when, when we do talk aboutsetting goals in order to, on
some level, increase ourself-confidence?
Mm-hmm.
One of the ways that I like topicture doing that and I
scribbled some circles here on apiece of paper is imagine, if
(20:39):
you will, a large circle withthree different kind of colors
of lines.
Here in this illustration Ihave the red line on the outside
.
That represents areas where youare incredibly, incredibly
uncomfortable and generallyincapable.
So if someone were to say, hey,rob, you need to go run a six
(21:00):
minute mile, I'd be like, nope,that's in the red, that's just
something I'm not physicallycapable of doing at this age.
Even my fastest was, I think, a645.
So that's out here in the red.
I would be uncomfortable andincapable.
I just can't do that.
The yellow represents an areathat is very challenging but
(21:22):
very achievable, something thatyou can push yourself towards
and actually achieve.
It's not comfortable but youcan do it.
And then the black representsall the areas and the things
that you are very comfortablewith.
You know things you've done fora long time.
So as we set goals and as weaccomplish things and as we
(21:45):
achieve things, it's kind oflike this like you're, you're,
you're saying, well, I want toget better at running, so you
kind of do this thing here, yougo run, you go run a 5k and it's
, you know you're sucking airinto your lungs and you feel
like you're going to die, but atthe end of it you feel great.
So then you start running alittle bit more and you do these
(22:05):
things, and so you start togrow this black area, this, this
circle that represents whereyou're comfortable, you expand
it and in that expansion you aregenerally now more comfortable,
more capable of more things inlife in general.
(22:25):
And this yellow circle thatrepresents that which is
challenging, achievable butchallenging, that will also grow
.
And then this red circle, whichrepresents that which you're
incredibly uncomfortable with orincapable of, that will grow
(22:46):
too, you know, and not in a badway, but in a good way.
It'll get further out and the,you know, maybe at some point if
I ran enough six minute- milescould be now in the yellow like
within striking distance.
maybe I can't do it today, butif I set a very specific plan in
place, I could actuallyaccomplish that.
Well then, the red would nolonger be a six minute mile,
(23:08):
It'd be a five minute mile.
Yep.
And the next thing, you know,we have human beings running
four minute miles Right.
So it's rare, but it's beendone.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
I really like that, because the thing about goal
setting and goal achievement isgoal achievement begets more
goal achievement.
So it's like this snowballeffect in the positive, where
you, you achieve more, so youachieve more, so you achieve
more, so you achieve more andyou begin to break the glass
(23:45):
ceiling of what you thought waspossible for you.
But it all and that leads tojust so much, so much change in
our lives and so many goodthings.
But it all starts with beingable to identify well, what is
it that I want to do, having thewhy that's strong enough to do
it and the competency.
So someone who you know,someone, might say I want to run
(24:09):
a six minute mile, but they are, they can't like, for some
reason, maybe they're wheelchairbound, like that's may not be
the goal for them because theydon't have the competency to do
it.
So make sure that you are alsopicking just the capability.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
If you're wheelchair bound, it's not that you're
incompetent, you just physicallyyou can.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Well, the word yeah, that's right, the word in the
the research is competency.
So, when we look atself-determination, it's
autonomy, competency, autonomy,competence and relatedness, and
I'm not going to talk about talkabout all three of those.
But, um, it's exactly what yousaid, like why do you want to do
it?
Is your why strong enough?
Because it's truly coming fromwithin you, and a lot of people
(24:47):
do struggle making goals.
I want to go back to therelational part.
Like, I want to be a betterblank person, friend.
Well then, take time to identifywhat is the area in which you
feel like you're not.
Is it because you get angry allthe time?
Is it because you aren't thereas much as you wish you were?
Is it because you really suckat responding to people when
(25:10):
they reach out to you to hangout?
Like, what is the area that youfeel that you want to grow in
and get specific about that?
I want to be better at, uh,texting people back when they
text me, or I want to be betterat dealing with my anger and not
taking it out on my spouse.
And then, from there, you makea plan.
(25:30):
So you try and make it againlike we're making it as specific
as we can, and then you'remaking the plan of what that's
going to look like, and so thatis how to set, and hopefully
achieve, better goals.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yes, um, to echo what you just said, that you know
that when we're looking atthings iny goals being a better
parent, spouse, running better,lifting more, looking thinner
(26:22):
there are a lot of things thatare just kind of these lofty
ideas, and I think you shouldask yourself what do I want the
most?
Where do my thoughts keepcoming back to day after day
when I, you know, lay down toget ready to go to sleep at
night?
What kind of hits my mindbesides worry or anxiety or
(26:42):
anything like that, or workrelated stuff?
Is there something you want?
A bigger house?
Oh, that might take 30 years toget to that point, depending on
what it is right, and a lotgoes into that.
Whatever, that is that you wantthe most, and I would say, with
(27:04):
the caveat of something thatcould be realistically achieved
within the next 12 to 18 monthsa lot of times, um, maybe bigger
houses in there, but if youknow, if you're in a situation
where that's just not in thecards financially, that that may
be a loftier goal, that youkeep and you don't give up on
(27:25):
that dream, but that you setsmaller goals that could
actually stair step up into thatso you can have your big, lofty
goal and without setting, youknow, having a big giant mansion
as the goal, set stair stepgoals.
Well, if I started my ownbusiness, I could make more
(27:45):
money and scale that business toa point where I may be able to
eventually sell it and eitherafford a home or make enough
cashflow in that side business,that business to a point where I
may be able to eventually sellit and either afford a home or
make enough cashflow in thatside business or that business
to do that.
Well then you say, okay, well,I should start it as a side
hustle, shouldn't quit the jobjust to go do that and then
maybe go broke and thinkingabout ways to just kind of
(28:07):
stair-step and over the courseof 30 years, maybe sooner, you
may accomplish that.
So I think, kind ofstair-stepping it.
But you you have to think whatdo you really want you?
Not what your spouse wants foryou or your parent you're
(28:27):
talking about external or whatmaybe a boss at work wants for
you.
Yeah, depending, depending onhow personal your boss at work.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
But if it's something that affects your family, then
you and your spouse should setthose goals together, and it
should be a compromise of whatdo we want.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Yeah, yeah, you shouldn't just go design the
house on your own.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Right Contact a builder.
Have it built and then tell yourspouse yeah exactly this is
what we're doing, because I wantto do it.
Yes, right, yes, yeah, but no,I totally hear you.
The other thing I was thinkingof when, when I listened to
Matthew Perry's autobiographyrest in peace Uh, he talked
about how I mean he talks aboutin there his journey to becoming
(29:08):
famous and his drug addictionsand all of the things, and there
was a line in there that justhit me so hard and he said I got
everything I ever wished for.
The problem was I wished forall the wrong things because the
money and the fame destroyedhim, and so I would encourage
(29:29):
people, kind of as a side note,as they're thinking of their
goals.
And you were talking about themansion and things like count
the cost for you to live in thebig house.
What is that going to do toyour relationships?
What is that going to do totime with your spouse?
What is that going to do to you?
Because you're going to becomea greedier person, maybe along
the way, and so maybe that's notit, like, maybe it is what you
(29:54):
truly want, but maybe it's whatyou truly want because you want
to prove something to someoneelse.
Yeah, and that's notself-concordant, like you're
still doing it for an extrinsicmotivation, because you're
wanting other people's approval.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
So then, what is a way a person can vet their own
motivation?
Because, you know,self-reflection can be the
hardest kind of reflection.
What if there was, like achildhood hang-up that I didn't
think mattered, but it's at thevery back of my mind?
Let's say, and this didn'thappen, thankfully, my parents
were very nice to me.
I was actually a very skinnykid, but let's just say, let's
(30:33):
pretend I struggled with weightas a kid.
I was skinny as a rail.
My sister called me string bean, but let's just pretend I was a
little bit chubby.
Yeah, let's pretend I was alittle bit chubby and my parents
were constantly kind of likenagging me about it.
Well, let's say my in adulthood.
(30:53):
My parents have passed away andgone and you know, then I set
these weight loss goals here inadulthood, which is still
something worthy.
It's still a worthwhile and Iwill be healthier if I
accomplish it.
But am I doing it because of ahangup of a deceased parent or
something, or am I doing itbecause this is?
I'm finally starting to lookinward and be like, okay, I look
in the mirror and I see thatthis person I love, which is me,
(31:14):
isn't living their healthiestbest life, and I want them to
live their healthiest best lifebecause it's me and I love me.
You know, or is it you know?
I hear mom's voice in my headwhen I look in the mirror.
So I think you know.
How do we self-reflect?
(31:34):
I mean, I think, In a healthyway, or should we go to a
therapist and vet things througha therapist or something?
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Maybe.
I mean, I think that's probablysomething, for that could
probably take its own wholeepisode to unpack and we could
probably look at some researchand come back with some things.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Let the voices inside your head.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Yeah, well, it's very complex in nature, right?
Because right now we're talkingabout setting goals.
I don't know that anyone's evergoing to have a 100% pure
intrinsic goal ever in theirlife.
Like, even the things I want todo may be impacted of a of
something else that's happenedand I may not be aware of, of a
of a childhood circumstance thatled to that.
(32:13):
Yeah, it takes some awareness,it takes reflection, like you're
saying.
It takes that Um, and maybeit's just asking, like one, like
a very quick thing that wecould talk about is just
continuing to ask why.
So you ask why, like four orfive times, I want to lose
weight, why?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Cause I want to lose weight.
Why?
Because I want to be healthier.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Why, why.
And then you just do thatseveral times to really try and
get to the core reason why.
And we talk a lot about weightloss, we talk a lot about
exercise, because that'stypically what people choose as
goals when they first go aboutit.
But it could be I want tominimize my stuff, I want to
have my stuff, I want to, I wantto.
I want to have inner peace, Iwant to.
(32:54):
You know, there's no end to thegoals that people could set for
themselves, but I think a goodoverview as we wrap up the
episode is the first.
The first thing you do is youask yourself what do I want the
most and why?
So that's number one, numbertwo.
Then you take that and you sell.
You set a self-concordant goal.
(33:15):
So it truly is like I want todeclutter my house, and that's
what they want to do.
So I want to declutter my house.
Why do I want that?
Because I'm going to feel, I'mgoing to feel clearer in my head
and I want to give my stuff topeople who need it.
And you know all of this stuff.
Okay, so then how do you makethat self concordant?
(33:38):
Well, I'm setting this goalbecause I want to.
It's not because anyone else ismaking me.
I feel like I have the autonomyand the confidence to.
So it's kind of like acheckmark.
And then you make it specificI'm going to do one room a
weekend for the next threemonths and work through it that
way, and that makes it specificand time bound.
And then if people are stillstruggling and they're like,
well, I really am struggling,like I've never set goals before
(33:59):
or I've consistently andhistorically always failed and I
don't even trust myself, usethe pies as a framework and
remember, make it achievable anda stretch.
Think of the 4% rule.
This is in performancepsychology.
Is the 4% rule?
You just want to do a goal thatis 4% harder than what you know
(34:19):
you can do.
So 4% is not a lot and for highachievers that sounds stupid.
It's like it's not even worthdoing if it's only 4%.
I want it to be 20.
I want it to be 40.
I want it to be 50.
But in reality you set a goalthat's just 4% harder, whatever
that looks like.
So it's just like mentally youmay be like how does cleaning
(34:41):
out a house lead to 4%?
Well, you just do somethingthat's like a little bit hard.
That's why it's like one room aweekend.
Maybe it's one room a month,something you know you can do,
but it's going to be a littlebit of a stretch and that
becomes the way that you set andachieve goals.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
One thing we have not talked about yet, but I do want
to mention at the very end ofthe episode, but I think it's
very important Is the spacewherein we leave for failure.
You know you.
You said to me well, well, whatif you don't get to your goal?
I've already decided I'm stillgoing to love myself and I.
There are days where you know,like on the tracking app and
(35:25):
stuff, I might hit a bit overthat.
It's actually been a while andit was the beginning of the diet
that I decided if there's a daywhere I just blow through my
calorie limit, I'm not going tobeat myself up.
I decide on the front end.
I'm not going to beat myself up.
If there's that failure.
I'm going to allow it.
And the next day when I wake up, it's a new day and it and I'm
(35:48):
not going to punish myself bylowering calories even more that
day.
I'm just going to keep going.
And so not practicingself-punishment by if you fail
to meet the incremental goal onTuesday, you like do more on
Wednesday.
No, just pick up where you leftoff and just try again.
(36:08):
Dust yourself off and don'tbeat yourself up.
And that can be the hardestthing in the world for so many
people, especially if they.
I feel like if you haveparental hangups, perhaps from
childhood or teenage years, thatcould make things harder.
And it was when I decided thatif I do blow through my calorie
(36:35):
limit, I'm not going to punishmyself for any of that.
I think I missed one day at thevery beginning, like in the
first week, where I kind of didthat and the next day picked
back up, dusted myself off,didn't punish myself and just
kept going.
And I don't think I've missed aday since.
So and and and.
(36:56):
That makes all this measurable,achievable, time-bound stuff a
lot more accurate.
And if it happens tomorrow, ifit happens today, maybe I just
get too hungry and just eat abunch of food.
Um, that's fine, I'm justtomorrow morning I'll pick back
up and start over.
Yeah, that's a really goodpoint.
And there is going to come apoint where, if you do that over
(37:20):
and over and over, let's sayyou keep failing the incremental
daily goal that will get you tothe higher goal.
Yeah.
Stepping back, taking a stepback from that higher goal, not
abandoning it entirely, butsaying you know what?
I'm going to put this on theshelf.
This just isn't the cards rightnow.
I thought it was in this yellowzone here for me, but it turns
(37:42):
out it's in the red.
Yeah, so what I'm going to dois I?
I I'm going to lower it to thesomething that's closer to what
would be yellow to the somethingthat's closer to what would be
yellow.
You know, you may discover thatI think some people, when they
strike out on diets, they'll do.
I've seen things like 1500calories a day or something.
(38:03):
Unless you're a tiny petitewoman, that's that.
If you're a dude and you'relike anywhere close to American
size, you're.
That's probably way too little,you know.
So.
So, leaving room for failureand not beating yourself up and
that can be the hardest thing inthe world If you're
consistently failing your dailythings, taking that bigger goal,
(38:25):
putting it on the shelf andsaying I'm not going to beat
myself up for doing this, I'mnot going to abandon this, I'm
not going to walk away from it.
Doing this, I'm not going toabandon this, I'm not going to
walk away from it.
But right now that's just notdoable for me.
And then make something that islike.
I've heard of this thing calledthe hard 75 and I've, and it's
supposed to increase your selfesteem and things of that nature
(38:48):
and I've looked at what ittakes to do the hard 75.
If you fail a day, you got tostart all over again.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we have hard and withoutknocking that, if you achieve
the 75 hard, yeah, I imagineyour self-esteem will be a lot
higher.
I imagine, when I look at therequirements of it, that
(39:08):
somewhere between I would submityour self-esteem won't, because
it's a completely controlledgoal.
Someone is telling you what todo it's not self-concordant no,
it's not but even if it doesincrease your self-esteem, it it
look the requirements of it.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
It's like they say it will like 10x your self-esteem,
which is literally how do youmeasure?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
that well you can measure it and you cannot 10x it
so you would have to have likea self-reported thing before and
after there's a lot ofvalidated self-esteem skills,
but either way and you can't 10Xit.
When you look at the actualgoals of it and you look at what
you have to do to do the 75hard.
Probably 95% of normal peoplewill not do it, Perhaps higher
(39:51):
than 95%.
So what about the 95% of peoplethat embark on that and they
don't get it?
Yeah.
If I could do anything, it wouldbe like the easy 90 or
something like that.
Like read for 20 minutes, gofor a walk, try to sleep at
least six.
Like have a list of 10 things,do three of them.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
But everyone can make that list for themselves.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Yeah, they can, they really can.
And so if you're new to goalsetting and this is all new
start small, ease into it,little things that are
worthwhile and make you feelbetter, and then go from there.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Absolutely All right.
Well, until next week's episode, stay strong.
So, on today's episode, we're going to talk
about how to set goals.
Yes, one of my favorite topics.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Not mine.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I don't know.
I like setting them, I likeaccomplishing goals.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
You are definitely more picky in the goals that you
set and work towards than I am.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Absolutely.
I don't do New Year'sresolutions, I just if it's a
resolution, it's a resolution Ifit's something that I strive
for.
It could it could be the 14thof July, I don't, I don't care,
but it will be time bound andwe're going to talk about that.
Did you write down smart onyour little?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
piece of paper.
I didn't, because smart goalsactually aren't the best way to
set goals.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Okay, Well, I'm going to talk about smart goals but
we will talk about it as amethod, but I'll let you present
your flawed method before I'vepresent the correct method.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Let's do that so one of the reasons that I love
talking about goals well, firstof all, I'm a pretty ambitious
person, so I love to havesomething to achieve and feel
good about myself based onachieving it.
That's probably one of it.
But goal setting in general inthe work that I've been doing
for my PhD, as you know, becauseI divulge all of my learnings
(01:11):
to you throughout the process isthat goal setting is important
for people.
It's important for self-esteem,it's important for the way that
we view ourselves a lot ofthings but the problem is in
setting goals, most peopleactually don't even know how to
set a good goal, and not just inthe sense of like being
(01:32):
specific and making smart goalsand things like that.
Most people have difficultyidentifying what it is that they
truly want to do for themselves, and that is the first thing
that we need to cover as we'retalking today about how to set
good goals, how to achieve thesegoals, because the other part
of it is in the research thatI've been doing for my
(01:54):
dissertation for my PhD.
There is research and a decentamount of it out there, that
when you work towards goals likeyou say okay, this is the goal
I have for myself, I'm going tolose 20 pounds, as an example.
If you don't hit that goal, youactually begin to experience a
decrease to your self esteem.
Another interesting thing canhappen to that if people
(02:14):
continue to not hit their goals,and because it's affecting
their self esteem, it canactually lead people to begin
lying and like, lie, cheat andsteal, so to say, even just to
themselves to make themselvesfeel good.
Because goal setting and selfesteem are so closely
intertwined that it's a way tolike preserve the way we feel
about ourselves.
(02:34):
So goal setting is importantbecause it actually has a direct
effect on how we think and feelabout ourselves, and so with
that, we need to be like seriousabout the goals that we set.
We shouldn't just throw itaround willy nilly.
When you set a goal, you'remaking a commitment to you.
That's first and foremost, andwe need to take that seriously
(02:55):
and follow through with thatcommitment.
So we'll, now that that's set,we're going to talk about how to
set good goals, what that meansand how to move forward.
So there are some indicationsfrom some recent research that
I've done in different areasthat have led, that have given
me, that have shown me that it'svery difficult for people to
(03:17):
actually choose a goal?
Because in this research,people were asked to set a goal,
like set a goal for the nextperiod of time and write it here
and those goals, and they wereinstructed to set a certain type
of goal called self-concordant,which we'll talk about in just
(03:37):
a minute.
Ok, but people would say thingslike I want to run a half
marathon over the next two weeksand it's like you're, you're
not.
Unless you have one booked andyou've been training for it for
three months, you're not runninga half marathon in the next two
weeks I mean, I've done thatwithout training okay, that's
true actually you did, but youhad been running in the army, it
(03:58):
wasn't like you went from acouch potato, so I I mean we
y'all run like five miles on aPT one morning Very rare so you
had been in the shape of running.
Anyway, yeah.
One person said get married, andit's like, okay, if you have.
If the wedding's alreadyscheduled, I guess If you're
engaged and ready to get married, great.
(04:19):
But if you are single andlooking on Bumble for your next
person, you're not gettingmarried in the next two weeks.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I mean you can, it's just probably a huge mistake
Again sure you can, but let's.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
So that was the first indication of like.
The first problem is peopledon't even know how to set goals
.
Yeah, over the next like over atwo week time frame, four week
time frame, a year timeframe,and especially self-concordant
goals.
So, according to the research,self-concordant goals are the
ones that, when people set thisspecific type of goal and
(04:54):
achieve it, leads to the highestincrease in self-esteem,
because a self-concordant goalis a goal that you actually want
to do, because you want to doit.
Yes.
Another way that people talkabout this is intrinsic
motivation.
So this is something where themotivation to do this is coming
(05:15):
from entirely within myself.
I have, like, this burningdesire within me to make this
happen, for whatever reason.
So if we think of it like as aspectrum, intrinsic motivation
would be all the way to theright and extrinsic motivation
is all the way to the left, andthen you have a motivation which
is just the lack of anymotivation.
But extrinsic motivation is I'mdoing this because I feel like
(05:39):
I have to.
It's an external.
So that might be like yourwhole office is competing in
some kind of challenge to do awhole 30 or something like that
and you don't really want to doit, but you feel like you have
to because everyone else isdoing it and maybe there's a
reward of a hundred dollars tothe person, to people who do it.
So it's like, okay, I'll do itfor those reasons, but it's not
(06:02):
because it's something I trulywant to do.
That's extrinsic motivation andnot the kind of goals we're
focused on.
Self-concordant goals are theones where you're saying, like I
genuinely have a desire to dothis.
I genuinely have a desire totravel to three different
countries this year.
I genuinely have a desire toget my VO2 max to over 50.
(06:24):
I genuinely so.
For me, like it's being ablefor each person to take time and
genuinely think about what arethe things I want.
If I take away other people'sexpectations of me, what do I
want to do?
Because I want to do it?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I think the emphasis on taking away other people's
expectations for you cannot beunderstated enough or overstated
enough, I'm sorry.
Mm-hmm.
I feel like it's understated.
We cannot overstate it.
Right.
When I was in the military andI was overweight, heavier than I
(07:03):
am now, and I was overweight,heavier than I am now.
They're not wrong to holdphysical fitness standards and
body weight standards and bodyfat percentage standards and I
made those standards even thoughI was on the higher end of what
was acceptable.
But it was other people settingthose goals for me.
And I never really aspired to domore than just meet the
(07:24):
standard, and I so.
I was one of those people whomet the standard, but I wasn't
like blowing it.
Now I am like no, I want to getto a BMI of 24.1 specifically.
That'll give me some wiggleroom to go up a little bit and
then down and oscillate betweenthe two during bolts and cuts.
So I have a specific number.
(07:45):
I have not just a specificnumber of a BMI, a specific
number of what I would weigh andall those other things, and I
have a certain amount ofcalories per day.
I'll have to stop my diet onthis day to go into maintenance
phase that I can regen, and thenI'll have to pick it back up,
and so I have all that kind ofplanned out over the next year.
Whether or not I stick with itis you know, stay tuned, we'll
(08:09):
see.
But I am now like no, this isfor me.
I decided that if I love me andif you love yourself, then when
we we see something that'sunhealthy within us, we want to
change it because we loveourselves so much.
So I think that stripping awayother people's expectations if
(08:34):
your spouse is pressuring you tolose weight because you know
they're hinting, that they'relosing attraction.
You know that that stinks.
I still think that that youshould strive to to do that, but
not because of them.
If they left tomorrow,hopefully they don't, but if
(08:58):
they left tomorrow, walked outthe door and never came back,
finding the motivation and thereason and the why within you to
do it anyway, and it's not forthem it's for you because you
love yourself, and that's that's.
That applies to just any goal.
Not, we use weight so oftenbecause it's probably the most
common one for americans to towant to do.
(09:20):
But there are so many otherworthwhile goals.
You mentioned traveling and allthose things, so Well, you can
use the pies too.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
So using physical, intellectual, emotional,
spiritual as a framework of howto set goals is helpful too.
So, physically, what do I trulywant for my physical self?
How do I want to look and feelbetter?
Want for my physical self, howdo I want to look and feel
better?
Intellectually, what are mygoals?
I truly want to finish my PhDthis year.
(09:53):
That is my number one.
For you, my number oneintellectual goal.
Emotionally, what does thatlook like?
And a lot of these are going tobe relational.
So for me, a goal that I set isthat every date that is my
child's birthday.
So, like our daughter was bornon the 9th, our son was born on
the 29th.
Is that right?
Yes, that's right, that iscorrect.
So, like that day each month, Iwant to be intentional about
(10:15):
doing something special withthem.
So having it be like a date dayand then you and I having that,
whether that be like around theday of our anniversary each
month or around your birthday,which could, like is probably
gonna be the same week mostmonths, so you know we can be
flexible about that.
But, like that's my way ofsaying, I want to be intentional
about quality time.
(10:36):
That's the goal I want to do.
And then spiritually, like,what are the goals?
So for me, I want to do morewith missions, and there's
several ways that you know ofthat that's playing out in my
life and that I'm pursuing itLike I wanted to volunteer more.
But as I sat down and thought,well, how do I want to do that,
what do I, what do I truly wantto do?
And I just know that that's theway that God is calling me.
(10:57):
So that's a goal.
And now that, like that's anexample of a goal that doesn't
have a specificity to it, like Idon't have a time with it.
I don't I'm.
It's kind of just likegenerally I'm moving in this
direction for this goal becauseI don't have enough information
yet.
But with some of my physicalgoals I'm like I'm on a pretty
stringent training plan becauseI know specifically what I want
(11:18):
to happen and that's OK.
You can have the smart goalsthat are super specific and time
bound and eventually goalsshould end up getting there.
But there's so many differenttypes of goals that a person
could have a learning goal, ahabit goal, a self-change goal,
that they're all going to lookdifferent in how you measure
them and how you track them.
(11:38):
Yes, and also a good, I think, acaveat to say here is there's
always going to be times in lifethat we do have to do things
that aren't our goals.
Maybe at work, you're given aquota you have to meet.
It wasn't the one you generated, but you have to do it.
You still get a boost inself-esteem by hitting that goal
.
It's just not the same as ifyou were to set that goal
(12:03):
yourself.
But the real gold ticket here isa self-concordant goal,
something you truly want to do.
And another key forself-concordancy is having being
able to have autonomy of thatgoal and not feeling like you
are controlled into making it.
So autonomy is I have thefreedom to choose the goal and
to go about doing it andachieving it the way I want to.
(12:26):
Yes, as opposed to controlledis here's your goal and here's
exactly how you're going to doit.
Both of them have a place, buthaving autonomy in your goal
leads to higher self-concordance, which leads to higher overall
well-being.
So that's the key here, yeah,so then, what are some
self-concordant goals you'reworking on?
What are some things thatyou're doing because you
genuinely want to, other thanweight loss?
(12:49):
You've already talked aboutthat A BMI of like 24.1.
Is that what you said?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
An O-8 of 178.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
An O-8 of 178.
But what happens if you don't?
Okay, this is going to go intomy next point.
So you want to make a goalthat's achievable, but also a
stretch is more than a stretchit is, I don't know that it's
doable.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Not.
So the end of my six month dietphase will be the end of April
Highly unlikely, unless I wereto work out really hard between
now and then or drop caloriesfurther.
I always reserve the right todrop calories a bit further, but
(13:38):
I want to do it in very tinyincrements and then wait, like
two to four weeks, to see what adifference is being made.
So not at the rate that I woulddrop calories.
It's highly unlikely to occurby the end of April, which is
when I will stop doing a dietand then I will go into, at a
minimum, a maintenance phase.
Um, for a period of time,probably about four months,
(14:03):
which is two thirds.
The length of the diet shouldprobably go the same length of
the diet.
I'm going to try and cheat anddo two thirds and then, around
the time of the holidays,getting ready to start pick back
up, because I like losingweight through the holidays.
It's actually kind of nice inthe wintertime when I and that's
kind of personal to me in thepast I put on the most weight
(14:24):
during the holidays in thewinter and I never shed it off.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
So actually losing weight over the?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
holidays feels really good.
So at the current rate, youknow, last week I think I talked
and I said I was like 202, nowI'm 201, so a pound a week,
right.
So I'm on track for about apound a week and, yeah, I won't
hit that goal.
I'll hit around half thatgoal-ish that goal.
(14:56):
I'll hit around half that goalish, uh, 12 and a half ish
pounds of fat loss by the timeI'm going to stop.
So, yeah, I'm going to have topick it back up.
I'm going to have to take abreak, just so my body can just
readjust hormones and things.
You don't want to tank yourhormones to testosterone and
things like that for men andestrogen and other things for
women.
So you don't really want totank your hormones and all that.
So you do need to take a break.
And that's part of the specificand measurable, achievable,
(15:18):
realistic part of everything.
But a lot goes into building upto the point where I even get
to a point where I'm comfortablesetting these specific goals,
charting out the time, all that.
If somebody's never even thoughtabout their macros or their or
(15:40):
even calorie tracking, orthey've never opened
MyFitnessPal or any othertracking, I don't use that one,
I use a different one, butthat's the most common one.
If they've never even thoughtabout that, then doing all these
things whether it's aself-concordant or a smart goal
is just out of reach.
(16:01):
It's just it's so far outsidethe comfort zone.
It's not that they're notintelligent enough to do it,
it's just that it's so faroutside the comfort zone that
it's so highly unlikely tohappen.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Well, I think there's aspects to it.
So, first of all, you set thegoal of losing weight because it
was something you truly wantedto do.
You don't feel like there's anoutside force or anything like
that.
Okay, so you said I want tolose weight.
So this is how it goes inphases.
I truly want to lose weight.
So this is how it goes inphases.
I truly want to lose weight.
Well then, if we're going tofollow, like, the stretch goal
(16:36):
method, so you want to, ideally,when setting goals, you want to
do something that is attainablebut a bit challenging.
Who initially wants to loseweight?
It should probably be somethinglike 10 pounds.
That is a stretch, but it's not50.
It's not 80.
Because another part of this isthe harder you set it on the
(16:58):
front end, the more likely youare to actually not even start
because it feels toooverwhelming.
So you start with 10 pounds.
Well, then you get into, like,the planning process.
Well, what is it going to takefor me to lose 10 pounds?
It means I'm going to have tostart getting like eating less.
It means I'm going to have todecrease my calories, because
that's a key part of it, and itmeans I'm going to have to
(17:19):
exercise more.
Those are the two key thingsthat have to happen.
So that's when you start kindof creating the plan that's
going to support the goal, and Ithink a smart goal is fine.
You want to be specific.
I want to lose 10 pounds bywhen?
Well, let's make that realisticto a half a pound, to a pound a
week.
Two pounds a week is prettyaggressive.
Anything more than that isstupid.
(17:40):
So make it something again thatis achievable.
Yet a stretch.
So let's say it's a pound aweek, so we're talking about a
10 week timeframe if you'regoing to set this method.
So now, specific.
And it's a pound a week, sowe're talking about a 10-week
time frame if you're going toset this method.
So now, it's specific and it'smeasurable.
How are you going to measure it?
By the scale?
Is it achievable?
Well, we've broken it down towhere it is.
Is it realistic?
We've broken it down to whereit is.
Does it have a time bound?
(18:01):
Yes, we've broken it down.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
So you saying you want to be 178?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
pounds, I would like to reach the weight of 178
pounds, which was a total of 22plus 40-ish pounds, 42 pounds
you're losing.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
So from where I started, that would be 44 total
44 total pounds.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
But the thing is that I want people to hear and maybe
even you you're not doing thisall at once, you've broken it
into steps, and I think thatit's appropriate to say, because
someone may say, like me, forexample, I may say I'd love to
weigh 130 pounds.
I weigh 143.
(18:47):
And the truth of the matter isthat's an ideal like truly in my
head.
I really just want to be like,have less fat and more muscle,
which we talked about in theepisode that we covered that, so
that I think it's like a goodgeneral thing.
But I might first say, well,I'm just going to first lose
(19:08):
five pounds, because for methat's realistic but still a
stretch.
So I want to get down to 137,138, 137, 138.
I may get there and say it'snot worth it.
I don't want to continue to dothe work to be 130 pounds, and
that's okay for people.
I think people set goals I wantto run a marathon and then they
(19:30):
run a 5k and they're like youknow what?
I'm actually good here andthat's another reason it's
important to stair step goals.
Yes, instead of setting out andsaying I'm going to run a
marathon and then you hit thehave the hit to your self-esteem
when you don't do it.
You start with I'm going to runa 5k, and then you reevaluate
and you can have this ideal inmind of you know, maybe one day
(19:51):
I want to run a marathon andI'll put that on my like to
evaluate goal list, but firstI'm just going to run this 5K
and that's what you commit toand that's a better way to do it
.
Another thing that we see ispeople say well, I want to be a
better mom, dad, wife, husband.
That's too vague.
It is too vague.
(20:12):
How can you make it specific?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
That one, I don't know Go to more baseball games
or something.
So when, when we do talk aboutsetting goals in order to, on
some level, increase ourself-confidence?
Mm-hmm.
One of the ways that I like topicture doing that and I
scribbled some circles here on apiece of paper is imagine, if
(20:39):
you will, a large circle withthree different kind of colors
of lines.
Here in this illustration Ihave the red line on the outside
.
That represents areas where youare incredibly, incredibly
uncomfortable and generallyincapable.
So if someone were to say, hey,rob, you need to go run a six
(21:00):
minute mile, I'd be like, nope,that's in the red, that's just
something I'm not physicallycapable of doing at this age.
Even my fastest was, I think, a645.
So that's out here in the red.
I would be uncomfortable andincapable.
I just can't do that.
The yellow represents an areathat is very challenging but
(21:22):
very achievable, something thatyou can push yourself towards
and actually achieve.
It's not comfortable but youcan do it.
And then the black representsall the areas and the things
that you are very comfortablewith.
You know things you've done fora long time.
So as we set goals and as weaccomplish things and as we
(21:45):
achieve things, it's kind oflike this like you're, you're,
you're saying, well, I want toget better at running, so you
kind of do this thing here, yougo run, you go run a 5k and it's
, you know you're sucking airinto your lungs and you feel
like you're going to die, but atthe end of it you feel great.
So then you start running alittle bit more and you do these
(22:05):
things, and so you start togrow this black area, this, this
circle that represents whereyou're comfortable, you expand
it and in that expansion you aregenerally now more comfortable,
more capable of more things inlife in general.
(22:25):
And this yellow circle thatrepresents that which is
challenging, achievable butchallenging, that will also grow
.
And then this red circle, whichrepresents that which you're
incredibly uncomfortable with orincapable of, that will grow
(22:46):
too, you know, and not in a badway, but in a good way.
It'll get further out and the,you know, maybe at some point if
I ran enough six minute- milescould be now in the yellow like
within striking distance.
maybe I can't do it today, butif I set a very specific plan in
place, I could actuallyaccomplish that.
Well then, the red would nolonger be a six minute mile,
(23:08):
It'd be a five minute mile.
Yep.
And the next thing, you know,we have human beings running
four minute miles Right.
So it's rare, but it's beendone.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
I really like that, because the thing about goal
setting and goal achievement isgoal achievement begets more
goal achievement.
So it's like this snowballeffect in the positive, where
you, you achieve more, so youachieve more, so you achieve
more, so you achieve more andyou begin to break the glass
(23:45):
ceiling of what you thought waspossible for you.
But it all and that leads tojust so much, so much change in
our lives and so many goodthings.
But it all starts with beingable to identify well, what is
it that I want to do, having thewhy that's strong enough to do
it and the competency.
So someone who you know,someone, might say I want to run
(24:09):
a six minute mile, but they are, they can't like, for some
reason, maybe they're wheelchairbound, like that's may not be
the goal for them because theydon't have the competency to do
it.
So make sure that you are alsopicking just the capability.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
If you're wheelchair bound, it's not that you're
incompetent, you just physicallyyou can.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Well, the word yeah, that's right, the word in the
the research is competency.
So, when we look atself-determination, it's
autonomy, competency, autonomy,competence and relatedness, and
I'm not going to talk about talkabout all three of those.
But, um, it's exactly what yousaid, like why do you want to do
it?
Is your why strong enough?
Because it's truly coming fromwithin you, and a lot of people
(24:47):
do struggle making goals.
I want to go back to therelational part.
Like, I want to be a betterblank person, friend.
Well then, take time to identifywhat is the area in which you
feel like you're not.
Is it because you get angry allthe time?
Is it because you aren't thereas much as you wish you were?
Is it because you really suckat responding to people when
(25:10):
they reach out to you to hangout?
Like, what is the area that youfeel that you want to grow in
and get specific about that?
I want to be better at, uh,texting people back when they
text me, or I want to be betterat dealing with my anger and not
taking it out on my spouse.
And then, from there, you makea plan.
(25:30):
So you try and make it againlike we're making it as specific
as we can, and then you'remaking the plan of what that's
going to look like, and so thatis how to set, and hopefully
achieve, better goals.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yes, um, to echo what you just said, that you know
that when we're looking atthings iny goals being a better
parent, spouse, running better,lifting more, looking thinner
(26:22):
there are a lot of things thatare just kind of these lofty
ideas, and I think you shouldask yourself what do I want the
most?
Where do my thoughts keepcoming back to day after day
when I, you know, lay down toget ready to go to sleep at
night?
What kind of hits my mindbesides worry or anxiety or
(26:42):
anything like that, or workrelated stuff?
Is there something you want?
A bigger house?
Oh, that might take 30 years toget to that point, depending on
what it is right, and a lotgoes into that.
Whatever, that is that you wantthe most, and I would say, with
(27:04):
the caveat of something thatcould be realistically achieved
within the next 12 to 18 monthsa lot of times, um, maybe bigger
houses in there, but if youknow, if you're in a situation
where that's just not in thecards financially, that that may
be a loftier goal, that youkeep and you don't give up on
(27:25):
that dream, but that you setsmaller goals that could
actually stair step up into thatso you can have your big, lofty
goal and without setting, youknow, having a big giant mansion
as the goal, set stair stepgoals.
Well, if I started my ownbusiness, I could make more
(27:45):
money and scale that business toa point where I may be able to
eventually sell it and eitherafford a home or make enough
cashflow in that side business,that business to a point where I
may be able to eventually sellit and either afford a home or
make enough cashflow in thatside business or that business
to do that.
Well then you say, okay, well,I should start it as a side
hustle, shouldn't quit the jobjust to go do that and then
maybe go broke and thinkingabout ways to just kind of
(28:07):
stair-step and over the courseof 30 years, maybe sooner, you
may accomplish that.
So I think, kind ofstair-stepping it.
But you you have to think whatdo you really want you?
Not what your spouse wants foryou or your parent you're
(28:27):
talking about external or whatmaybe a boss at work wants for
you.
Yeah, depending, depending onhow personal your boss at work.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
But if it's something that affects your family, then
you and your spouse should setthose goals together, and it
should be a compromise of whatdo we want.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Yeah, yeah, you shouldn't just go design the
house on your own.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Right Contact a builder.
Have it built and then tell yourspouse yeah exactly this is
what we're doing, because I wantto do it.
Yes, right, yes, yeah, but no,I totally hear you.
The other thing I was thinkingof when, when I listened to
Matthew Perry's autobiographyrest in peace Uh, he talked
about how I mean he talks aboutin there his journey to becoming
(29:08):
famous and his drug addictionsand all of the things, and there
was a line in there that justhit me so hard and he said I got
everything I ever wished for.
The problem was I wished forall the wrong things because the
money and the fame destroyedhim, and so I would encourage
(29:29):
people, kind of as a side note,as they're thinking of their
goals.
And you were talking about themansion and things like count
the cost for you to live in thebig house.
What is that going to do toyour relationships?
What is that going to do totime with your spouse?
What is that going to do to you?
Because you're going to becomea greedier person, maybe along
the way, and so maybe that's notit, like, maybe it is what you
(29:54):
truly want, but maybe it's whatyou truly want because you want
to prove something to someoneelse.
Yeah, and that's notself-concordant, like you're
still doing it for an extrinsicmotivation, because you're
wanting other people's approval.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
So then, what is a way a person can vet their own
motivation?
Because, you know,self-reflection can be the
hardest kind of reflection.
What if there was, like achildhood hang-up that I didn't
think mattered, but it's at thevery back of my mind?
Let's say, and this didn'thappen, thankfully, my parents
were very nice to me.
I was actually a very skinnykid, but let's just say, let's
(30:33):
pretend I struggled with weightas a kid.
I was skinny as a rail.
My sister called me string bean, but let's just pretend I was a
little bit chubby.
Yeah, let's pretend I was alittle bit chubby and my parents
were constantly kind of likenagging me about it.
Well, let's say my in adulthood.
(30:53):
My parents have passed away andgone and you know, then I set
these weight loss goals here inadulthood, which is still
something worthy.
It's still a worthwhile and Iwill be healthier if I
accomplish it.
But am I doing it because of ahangup of a deceased parent or
something, or am I doing itbecause this is?
I'm finally starting to lookinward and be like, okay, I look
in the mirror and I see thatthis person I love, which is me,
(31:14):
isn't living their healthiestbest life, and I want them to
live their healthiest best lifebecause it's me and I love me.
You know, or is it you know?
I hear mom's voice in my headwhen I look in the mirror.
So I think you know.
How do we self-reflect?
(31:34):
I mean, I think, In a healthyway, or should we go to a
therapist and vet things througha therapist or something?
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Maybe.
I mean, I think that's probablysomething, for that could
probably take its own wholeepisode to unpack and we could
probably look at some researchand come back with some things.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Let the voices inside your head.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Yeah, well, it's very complex in nature, right?
Because right now we're talkingabout setting goals.
I don't know that anyone's evergoing to have a 100% pure
intrinsic goal ever in theirlife.
Like, even the things I want todo may be impacted of a of
something else that's happenedand I may not be aware of, of a
of a childhood circumstance thatled to that.
(32:13):
Yeah, it takes some awareness,it takes reflection, like you're
saying.
It takes that Um, and maybeit's just asking, like one, like
a very quick thing that wecould talk about is just
continuing to ask why.
So you ask why, like four orfive times, I want to lose
weight, why?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Cause I want to lose weight.
Why?
Because I want to be healthier.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Why, why.
And then you just do thatseveral times to really try and
get to the core reason why.
And we talk a lot about weightloss, we talk a lot about
exercise, because that'stypically what people choose as
goals when they first go aboutit.
But it could be I want tominimize my stuff, I want to
have my stuff, I want to, I wantto.
I want to have inner peace, Iwant to.
(32:54):
You know, there's no end to thegoals that people could set for
themselves, but I think a goodoverview as we wrap up the
episode is the first.
The first thing you do is youask yourself what do I want the
most and why?
So that's number one, numbertwo.
Then you take that and you sell.
You set a self-concordant goal.
(33:15):
So it truly is like I want todeclutter my house, and that's
what they want to do.
So I want to declutter my house.
Why do I want that?
Because I'm going to feel, I'mgoing to feel clearer in my head
and I want to give my stuff topeople who need it.
And you know all of this stuff.
Okay, so then how do you makethat self concordant?
(33:38):
Well, I'm setting this goalbecause I want to.
It's not because anyone else ismaking me.
I feel like I have the autonomyand the confidence to.
So it's kind of like acheckmark.
And then you make it specificI'm going to do one room a
weekend for the next threemonths and work through it that
way, and that makes it specificand time bound.
And then if people are stillstruggling and they're like,
well, I really am struggling,like I've never set goals before
(33:59):
or I've consistently andhistorically always failed and I
don't even trust myself, usethe pies as a framework and
remember, make it achievable anda stretch.
Think of the 4% rule.
This is in performancepsychology.
Is the 4% rule?
You just want to do a goal thatis 4% harder than what you know
(34:19):
you can do.
So 4% is not a lot and for highachievers that sounds stupid.
It's like it's not even worthdoing if it's only 4%.
I want it to be 20.
I want it to be 40.
I want it to be 50.
But in reality you set a goalthat's just 4% harder, whatever
that looks like.
So it's just like mentally youmay be like how does cleaning
(34:41):
out a house lead to 4%?
Well, you just do somethingthat's like a little bit hard.
That's why it's like one room aweekend.
Maybe it's one room a month,something you know you can do,
but it's going to be a littlebit of a stretch and that
becomes the way that you set andachieve goals.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
One thing we have not talked about yet, but I do want
to mention at the very end ofthe episode, but I think it's
very important Is the spacewherein we leave for failure.
You know you.
You said to me well, well, whatif you don't get to your goal?
I've already decided I'm stillgoing to love myself and I.
There are days where you know,like on the tracking app and
(35:25):
stuff, I might hit a bit overthat.
It's actually been a while andit was the beginning of the diet
that I decided if there's a daywhere I just blow through my
calorie limit, I'm not going tobeat myself up.
I decide on the front end.
I'm not going to beat myself up.
If there's that failure.
I'm going to allow it.
And the next day when I wake up, it's a new day and it and I'm
(35:48):
not going to punish myself bylowering calories even more that
day.
I'm just going to keep going.
And so not practicingself-punishment by if you fail
to meet the incremental goal onTuesday, you like do more on
Wednesday.
No, just pick up where you leftoff and just try again.
(36:08):
Dust yourself off and don'tbeat yourself up.
And that can be the hardestthing in the world for so many
people, especially if they.
I feel like if you haveparental hangups, perhaps from
childhood or teenage years, thatcould make things harder.
And it was when I decided thatif I do blow through my calorie
(36:35):
limit, I'm not going to punishmyself for any of that.
I think I missed one day at thevery beginning, like in the
first week, where I kind of didthat and the next day picked
back up, dusted myself off,didn't punish myself and just
kept going.
And I don't think I've missed aday since.
So and and and.
(36:56):
That makes all this measurable,achievable, time-bound stuff a
lot more accurate.
And if it happens tomorrow, ifit happens today, maybe I just
get too hungry and just eat abunch of food.
Um, that's fine, I'm justtomorrow morning I'll pick back
up and start over.
Yeah, that's a really goodpoint.
And there is going to come apoint where, if you do that over
(37:20):
and over and over, let's sayyou keep failing the incremental
daily goal that will get you tothe higher goal.
Yeah.
Stepping back, taking a stepback from that higher goal, not
abandoning it entirely, butsaying you know what?
I'm going to put this on theshelf.
This just isn't the cards rightnow.
I thought it was in this yellowzone here for me, but it turns
(37:42):
out it's in the red.
Yeah, so what I'm going to dois I?
I I'm going to lower it to thesomething that's closer to what
would be yellow to the somethingthat's closer to what would be
yellow.
You know, you may discover thatI think some people, when they
strike out on diets, they'll do.
I've seen things like 1500calories a day or something.
(38:03):
Unless you're a tiny petitewoman, that's that.
If you're a dude and you'relike anywhere close to American
size, you're.
That's probably way too little,you know.
So.
So, leaving room for failureand not beating yourself up and
that can be the hardest thing inthe world If you're
consistently failing your dailythings, taking that bigger goal,
(38:25):
putting it on the shelf andsaying I'm not going to beat
myself up for doing this, I'mnot going to abandon this, I'm
not going to walk away from it.
Doing this, I'm not going toabandon this, I'm not going to
walk away from it.
But right now that's just notdoable for me.
And then make something that islike.
I've heard of this thing calledthe hard 75 and I've, and it's
supposed to increase your selfesteem and things of that nature
(38:48):
and I've looked at what ittakes to do the hard 75.
If you fail a day, you got tostart all over again.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we have hard and withoutknocking that, if you achieve
the 75 hard, yeah, I imagineyour self-esteem will be a lot
higher.
I imagine, when I look at therequirements of it, that
(39:08):
somewhere between I would submityour self-esteem won't, because
it's a completely controlledgoal.
Someone is telling you what todo it's not self-concordant no,
it's not but even if it doesincrease your self-esteem, it it
look the requirements of it.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
It's like they say it will like 10x your self-esteem,
which is literally how do youmeasure?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
that well you can measure it and you cannot 10x it
so you would have to have likea self-reported thing before and
after there's a lot ofvalidated self-esteem skills,
but either way and you can't 10Xit.
When you look at the actualgoals of it and you look at what
you have to do to do the 75hard.
Probably 95% of normal peoplewill not do it, Perhaps higher
(39:51):
than 95%.
So what about the 95% of peoplethat embark on that and they
don't get it?
Yeah.
If I could do anything, it wouldbe like the easy 90 or
something like that.
Like read for 20 minutes, gofor a walk, try to sleep at
least six.
Like have a list of 10 things,do three of them.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
But everyone can make that list for themselves.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Yeah, they can, they really can.
And so if you're new to goalsetting and this is all new
start small, ease into it,little things that are
worthwhile and make you feelbetter, and then go from there.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Absolutely All right.
Well, until next week's episode, stay strong.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!