September 16, 2025 • 52 mins
Content warning: This episode includes discussions of alcoholism, depression, and occasional course language, which may be sensitive for some listeners.
What happens when a nurse known for looking after everyone else hits her own breaking point? For Bek Woodbine (Nurse Practitioner, host of podcast Tenderness for Nurses, and founder of a successful aesthetic clinic), it started with shaking hands and overwhelming anxiety. In a healthcare culture that rewards overwork and masks burnout with 'just one more drink,' Bek chose a different path.
Bek shares how she stepped away from clinical work, navigated anxiety and depression, and what six years of sobriety has taught her about resilience and self-leadership. She speaks openly about fatigue mismanagement in healthcare, the stigma nurses face when speaking up, and why great leadership starts with boundaries and care.
We also explore the aesthetic industry’s shift toward trends over ethics, and why Bek champions a skin first approach. This episode is for anyone who’s ever felt stretched too thin or is searching for a more sustainable way to care, for others and for themselves.
More about Bek's Organisation of Choice, FARE.
The Foundation for Alcohol Research and Education (FARE) is a not-for-profit organisation with a vision for an Australia free from alcohol harms – where communities are healthy and well, and where laws, policies and programs are fair, equitable and just.
Follow Bek's podcast Tenderness For Nurses on Instagram.
It Takes Heart is hosted by cmr CEO Sam Miklos, alongside Head of Talent and Employer Branding, Kate Coomber.
We Care; Music by Waveney Yasso
Get to know cmr better!
Follow @ittakesheartpodcast on Instagram, @cmr | Cornerstone Medical Recruitment on Linked In, @cornerstonemedicalrec on TikTok and @CornerstoneMedicalRecruitment on Facebook.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sam Miklos (00:00):
When the very systems we work in don't promote
self-care, how can we genuinelycreate happy healthcare
communities?
Bek Woodbine (00:06):
But one of the nurses was telling me that she
had just done a 12-hour shift.
Then they asked her to do an8-hour shift, after which she
said yes to, and then theywanted her to turn around and do
an early.
And I said to her where's thefatigue management in this?
But I said to her if you make adrug error, whose fault will it
be?
And she said to her if you makea drug error, whose fault will
it be?
And she said, oh, it'd be mine.
(00:26):
I said would the hospitalsupport you?
Kate Coomber (00:29):
She said probably not.
If you're loving these episodes, don't forget to click, follow
and subscribe, and follow us onInstagram for all the
behind-the-scenes fun.
Sam Miklos (00:43):
So today we're joined by Bec Woodbine, host of
Tenderness for Nurses podcastand founder of Perfectly Smooth,
Brisbane's premier medicalbeauty clinic.
Bec is a passionate advocatefor nurse self-care and
fostering a culture ofcompassion among healthcare
workers.
In her own podcast, Bec createsa safe space for her guests to
share their own journey, andtoday we feel so lucky to have
(01:04):
her here to share her journeywith us.
Welcome back to.
It Takes Heart.
Bek Woodbine (01:07):
Thank you so much for inviting me.
I'm actually very excited to beon the other side of the
microphone today, albeit alittle bit nervous, because it's
just a little bit differentwhen you're not in this, you
know driving seat.
Sam Miklos (01:19):
So it makes us feel better.
We've been terrified abouttoday.
We've been so nervous andbecause we've had to keep moving
it, I've had the shingles and Ithink you lost your voice one
time as well, so it's beenpushing it down, appreciate you
coming in, but it's the righttiming.
Yes, yes.
Today is when it was meant tobe.
We'll have our bestconversation.
Kate Coomber (01:37):
Definitely so.
We'd love to.
I know that I discovered yourpodcast before us doing this,
and what led you to start I knowthat you talked about Rock
Bottom brought you to thepodcast in one of those first
episodes.
Bek Woodbine (01:56):
Can you talk to us a little bit about that I had
wanted to do a podcast for along time and I thought
initially it would be more aboutthe aesthetic space, but
there's so many podcasts outthere about that and, to be
quite honest, it's really boring.
So I'd had my own journey withstopping drinking, with burnout
getting to the stage where Ididn't want to go into work, had
(02:19):
to take a year off work but runthe business from behind, which
had its own challenges.
Year off work and but run thebusiness from behind, which had
its own challenges.
And I'm someone that says if.
I'm going to do something.
I do it, and I actually spoketo a friend of mine, katie
Matton, who was also, you knowshe they own Podshape yeah and
she said just do it, bec, justdo it.
(02:41):
And so I did.
I just got in touch with awhole heap of friends,
colleagues, people that I knewwould have really interesting
stories, and they all said yes,they all came in.
You had the network I had thenetwork and I have had some and
it gives me goosebumps.
Remarkable.
They've all been remarkable,but there are some that have
(03:04):
shared such intimate, beautifuldetails of themselves and you
know my listeners get to hearthat and the response has been
so many people come back and go.
Oh my God, that is exactly howI felt, or you helped me
navigate through a really roughtime, or the interesting thing
(03:25):
is probably the number of peoplethat reach out to me now about
stopping drinking.
That's huge.
Kate Coomber (03:31):
So can you talk a little bit because again you
know you're the host andinterviewing all of these people
.
And you're again sharing theirstories.
You know to talk about you andyour own personal experience.
What is it?
You know what did that looklike for you, because we've done
a lot of episodes.
Now we're talking a lot aboutburnout and a lot of people
feeling it, and it's moreprevalent than ever.
What did that look like for youto bring you to that stopping
(03:55):
point?
Bek Woodbine (03:57):
I was.
I had no boundaries.
I said yes to everybody.
Sam Miklos (04:03):
Was that in work and personally as well?
Bek Woodbine (04:05):
both yeah, more work.
Kate Coomber (04:08):
I couldn't say no to patients.
It wasn't when you werehospital nursing.
Bek Woodbine (04:10):
It was no, but even hospital nursing.
I would be that person thatthey would ask to do over time
because, I'd always say yes.
I got to the stage and Iremember this beautiful client
came in and I started to develophorrendous anxiety, terrible
anxiety.
And she came in and this oneday I couldn't stop shaking and
(04:35):
I couldn't inject her, and itwasn't from anything other than
I was so anxious and I couldn'teven tell you why I was anxious.
Kate Coomber (04:44):
Yeah, it wasn't like anything was happening that
day.
Bek Woodbine (04:46):
No, no, but it's like everything in life, nothing
just sort of happens on its own.
There were quite a few thingsthat were happening all at once
and it just got to the point Icouldn't cope with it all.
And it was at that point, youknow, I sort of stepped away,
took some time out.
(05:06):
It has taken a long time towork through burnout and anxiety
, and I do see a psychiatristbecause my anxiety was so bad
and actually I was diagnosedwith depression and anxiety.
So then I started treatmentswith that and I've been a
different person.
(05:27):
But it's something I have towork on all the time.
Kate Coomber (05:30):
And how did that feel to get that diagnosis?
Sam Miklos (05:34):
Being a healthcare worker particularly too.
Bek Woodbine (05:40):
It was actually very confronting, very
confronting.
And the treatment I had I'dnever even heard of it TMS,
which is transcranial magneticsequencing but it changed my
life and interestingly, there'sa laser company that's bringing
out a lower level of TMS intothe wellness space, of which I
am highly opposed to because Ihave to.
(06:03):
When you have those sort oftreatments you know I'm under
the care of a psychiatrist I wasgonna say talk us through what
is yeah so TMS, you have to havea threshold testing.
So it's like a big magnet sitson your head and it sends pulses
down into your brain.
So left side's depression,right side anxiety I think both
(06:24):
are PTSD and pain is your M1,which sits along the top of your
head, and actually my painspecialist, because I have
recently had back surgery he'slooking at getting a TMS machine
for pain and it has improved mypain since going back and
having some TMS again.
(06:44):
But what it does is you canhave seizures with it.
So usually it is done under thecare of a registered nurse,
under the supervision of apsychiatrist.
Prior to COVID, you had to goin to hospital to have it done,
but now they're setting upclinics and now one of the laser
companies is out therepromoting it and Gwyneth Paltrow
(07:06):
just put something up on herwebsite or Instagram about
trying it and I just see.
Sam Miklos (07:12):
That's so irresponsible.
Bek Woodbine (07:14):
So it's so irresponsible and you know
people.
You can't be taking drugs.
There's certain drugs you can'tbe on.
You can't be using recreationaldrugs.
When you have these treatments,someone who may be misdiagnosed
or undiagnosed might go and tryand have those treatments and
think it's going to help, and itdoesn't.
Kate Coomber (07:36):
And is there earlier things you can do before
you get to that treatment too,or is it sometimes just?
Bek Woodbine (07:43):
it's best suited for certain people.
I think mine by that stage wasso bad that that was the choice
by the psychiatrist.
Kate Coomber (07:49):
Yes, so it's not like when you were talking about
the wellness of just anyone canjust oh, let's go and do that.
Bek Woodbine (07:54):
Well look, she was promoting it for perimenopause.
I mean, everyone's promotingeverything for menopause and
perimenopause.
It's sort of the it thing at themoment.
It changed my life and it savedme.
There's no doubt about that.
It just concerns me that it'sgoing to be another thing in the
wellness space that reallyshouldn't be touted as something
(08:17):
that's just for wellness, whenyou know it's going to be double
the price of what the machineis that's in my psychiatrist's
office, nowhere near as umeffective, and I just see it.
You know, hitting vulnerablepeople.
Vulnerable people are going tobe the ones that are using this
and once again, the aestheticindustry is targeting vulnerable
(08:37):
people you.
Sam Miklos (08:40):
You said a little bit earlier there that um now
have to work on.
You know you're managingburnout every single day.
Yeah, what does that look like?
And one other question was inthe lead up to that moment where
you just couldn't inject, wasthere little micro signs that,
on reflection, you….
Oh, absolutely, yeah, what werethose signs and what does it
(09:02):
look like every day?
Now for you to keep on top ofit.
Bek Woodbine (09:05):
So to keep on top of it, I've limited my injecting
hours.
It doesn't mean that I'm notinvolved in the business full
time, but I'm not having thatconstant face-to-face.
I have got a really good teamaround me and they probably
manage me better because I stillhave that tendency to add
people on and try and you know,please everybody and a lot of
(09:29):
nurses are people pleasers- Imean, that's why we do what we
do.
Sam Miklos (09:32):
You know we're carers.
Like you said, you can't say noOver time.
Would you work?
Yes, yes, I want to.
Bek Woodbine (09:37):
And, interestingly , when I was in hospital
recently, you know, after havingsurgery, one of the nurses came
in and they were fantastic atBrisbane Private and thanks,
guys, you were wonderful.
But one of the nurses wastelling me that she had just
done a 12-hour shift.
Then they asked her to do aneight-hour shift, after which
she said yes to, and then theywanted her to turn around and do
(09:59):
an early.
And I said to her where's thefatigue management in this?
And yes, they do get paid wellfor that.
But I said to her, if you makea drug error, whose fault will
it be?
And she said oh, it'd be mine.
I said would the hospitalsupport you?
She said probably not.
I said so why are you taking onthese extra shifts?
Sam Miklos (10:21):
But equally, why are they putting the staff in that?
Where's the leadership in allof that as well?
Bek Woodbine (10:26):
Exactly, and that then goes back to the point that
there's not enough nurses.
We can't retain nurses, becauseyou know we're treated still so
badly.
Sam Miklos (10:39):
Self-care for nurses , then how can we better support
the nursing community, andparticularly when you've got
leaders asking them to do moreshifts and you know fatigue
management, there's all.
There's so much systemicallythat they've got to deal with.
What would you like to see orhow do you think we can better
support them?
Bek Woodbine (11:00):
I think we need to change the way we think.
Over and over again, I'm stillhearing from nurses that we eat
our own.
That has to change.
Sam Miklos (11:12):
What does that mean?
We eat our own.
Bek Woodbine (11:13):
So if a nurse is doing well or they want to go
places and this has reallyhappened with my colleagues as
nurse practitioners it's such anodd space to be in because
there's a lot of nurses thatdon't like us.
A lot of GPs don't like us.
Specialists love us becausewe're that highest clinical
(11:34):
level.
A lot of us are going out andsetting up our own businesses
and working independently, soGPs in medicine find that
threatening, except, of course,specialists who are at the top
of the ladder.
Other nurses don't like iteither because they're not
willing to put the time andeffort in to study and it is a
really, really hard master'scourse to do.
Kate Coomber (11:59):
If the nurses don't see it as more support.
So you know, I don't think so.
Bek Woodbine (12:04):
It's a tall poppy syndrome in nursing and
historically, you know if youwere really good at something.
Or you know, for example, whenI worked in a day surgery center
, I used to love suturing and Iwould suture my ask the doctors
to teach me how to suture thepatients.
Now, look, it was just.
(12:25):
You know some ports forlaparoscopies and things like
that.
But the team around me had acrack at me and they just said,
oh, you just want to be a doctor.
I never sutured again afterthat Because they saw me working
outside or thinking I wassomething I wasn't.
And that happens all the time,instead of supporting each other
(12:49):
and just going oh my God,you're a fantastic leader.
Let's work with you to become aleader in this space.
Sam Miklos (12:55):
Yeah, lean into your superpower, I guess that's not
just healthcare, is it?
Kate Coomber (12:59):
That's just our culture?
I think that's across the board.
I think that's very.
Bek Woodbine (13:02):
Australian, you know, to a poppy syndrome that
we all talk about.
You certainly don't get this inthe States.
When I go to the States and goto the conferences and catch up
with my colleagues over there,they love anyone that is doing
great, they love anyone that ismaking money, they love people
that are going to stand up onstage and in fact nurses are
(13:22):
boycotting any conferences,anything like that if there are
no nurses speaking now.
Sam Miklos (13:29):
That's really good to see, because that's it to
hearing from each other.
But how would we, how can wechange that here if the States
is leading the way but we're not?
Is there some really like lowlevel, low lying fruit that we
could, you know, grab onto tomake some change?
I think this younger generationthat are could, you know, grab
onto to make some change.
Bek Woodbine (13:45):
I think this younger generation that are
coming through they're not goingto put up with this.
Sam Miklos (13:49):
No, I was thinking that when you were speaking too.
I was like surely thatgeneration, if nothing else, is
going to start to change.
Kate Coomber (13:53):
Who have big dreams and they really do want,
they do yeah.
Bek Woodbine (13:56):
However, all of you know what do they say.
They're different careers intheir lifetime.
However, in nursing you can haveseven different careers.
You can do theatre, you can doER, you can do rural and remote
there's, you can do overseas.
You know Red Cross.
(14:19):
There is so much you can do innursing.
That just opens up to you ifyou want to.
I mean, in my career I've donechildren's, I've done workplace
health and safety, I've donepalliative care, I've done
theatre, I've done aestheticsand I've done dermatology and
throw in that a few likerecovery theatre and
anaesthetics.
You know, like I have had aremarkable nursing career,
remarkable the things I havedone and I loved segueing and
(14:39):
I've always loved workingindependently and I think that's
a difference as well.
I loved segueing and I'vealways loved working
independently, and I thinkthat's a difference as well.
Kate Coomber (14:44):
Do you think that people are encouraged to branch
out from what they're doing, orpeople preferring them to stay
in the lane and stay here?
Because we've certainly noticedthat you know nursing graduates
coming out.
They maybe not know of theopportunities that are available
to them, that they couldactually do all of these
different fields and differentlocations around Australia.
Bek Woodbine (15:11):
And there's so much opportunity.
I just say, you know, get ontoa program, a graduate program,
try and work in as many placesas you can.
You know, do high dependency,do ward work, do medical, do
rehab, do do whatever and trydifferent things because you
will find your passion.
And once you become a nursepractitioner, we do specialize.
Even though my nursepractitioners was in primary
health care, I have specializedin dermatology and cosmetic
(15:35):
dermatology.
Kate Coomber (15:35):
So aesthetics, and what drew you to that?
Because you had had a vastcareer in all those areas and
you could have done yourmaster's and and I guess, become
that nurse practitioner.
Bek Woodbine (15:45):
I bought a little spray tan business.
Sam Miklos (15:47):
Oh, did you.
Bek Woodbine (15:48):
Just to make some moolah on the side?
Was that when?
Sam Miklos (15:50):
spray tanning was like a new like when they were
doing it in the garage, in thetents.
And yeah, everyone was orange,there was only one there was sun
effects.
Kate Coomber (15:58):
That was it.
Bek Woodbine (16:01):
And everyone poo-pooed me, and, and everyone
poo-pooed me, and then I starteddoing it.
Why did they poo-poo?
Kate Coomber (16:07):
you, because you know I was doing something
different and making money, andmaking money, and we did.
Bek Woodbine (16:10):
I did very well from that little business.
But then I thought here I amdoing this and I really could be
doing skin and I've alwaysloved skin.
I mean God.
My mum bought me a Yardleyskincare pack when I was in
grade seven.
You know, I've looked after myskin.
I have always been interestedin skin and I thought this is
(16:32):
nuts.
So I put together a businessplan and bought a laser machine
and then it was all self-taughtbecause there was no courses
around.
And then my business grew andgrew and grew and then the
number of people that wereasking me to inject and I didn't
want to, I wasn't reallyinterested in going down that
pathway.
And why was that?
It didn't interest me like skin, yeah, and I love my lasers.
Sam Miklos (16:56):
What were the lasers doing?
Bek Woodbine (16:58):
Like skin hair removal skin rejuvenation
vascularity, all of those things.
So I just decided that I'dlearn it, and the only way to
learn at that stage was gettingsomeone that would teach you and
then going to every singletraining you could.
That was put on by theaesthetic companies, that was
(17:19):
put on by the farmers, and I did, and I asked questions and I
went to every conference and Iwould pick people's brains and I
practiced and I would watchthings online, and it just went
from there.
And then I started trainingother people and then I worked
for Galderma and within my ownclinic and I'm lucky because
(17:41):
I've never been someone that'sover-injected people.
I've never liked that aestheticof big cheeks, big lips, frozen
heads, that sort of thing.
So I'm very grateful that I didfollow my gut, because now we
realise that a lot of things inthe aesthetic space aren't what
we thought they were.
Kate Coomber (17:59):
Well, yeah, like talk to us about that.
It's an interesting space froman outsider, I guess, looking in
.
Yeah, like talk to us aboutthat.
It's an interesting space froman outsider, I guess looking in.
And you know I was watching afilm recently of what is it?
Death Becomes Her, where theywere drinking the magic potion
to de-age, and you know it wasan 80s film or something and I
was like that's reallyinteresting.
Bek Woodbine (18:18):
I think no one's allowed to age yeah, where we're
at now Anymore.
And you know, more power tothose women that go and have
facelifts and want to do that.
And you know I work in thisspace.
I refer people on to differentplastic surgeons.
You know I've had a lip liftdone.
I've had my eyelids done.
I, you know, occasionally put abit of anti-wrinkle in my face.
(18:40):
I don't have any fillers in myface, but I do have
biostimulator.
But the number of people inHollywood, for example I just
was watching Brooke Shields andshe's not having a facelift and
the number of women that werebagging her online because she
didn't, she looked.
Sam Miklos (19:01):
She's aged.
Bek Woodbine (19:02):
Well, she looks her age.
Sam Miklos (19:03):
She looks 70.
Kate Coomber (19:04):
I think she actually looks fantastic for 70.
Yeah, yeah.
Bek Woodbine (19:06):
But then they put up the women that were making
the comments about her, and noneof them were wallflowers.
I have to tell you they wereyou know women that looked like
they had aged not well, yeah,why are we shaming each other
yeah.
If someone wants to have afacelift, you'd go for gold.
Sam Miklos (19:26):
I love it.
Bek Woodbine (19:27):
You're going to look fantastic More power to you
If you don't want one.
Fantastic More power to you.
It's everybody's choice andit's really personal.
Buy more power to you If youdon't want one fantastic More
power to you.
It's everybody's choice andit's really personal.
It's really personal if someonehas anti-wrinkle or not.
It's really personal if someonewants their lips done.
Do I like the aesthetic ofthese huge lips?
No, I hate it.
I hate it.
Sam Miklos (19:46):
And it's interesting because it's getting younger
and younger.
Kate Coomber (19:49):
That's where.
Sam Miklos (19:50):
I was going to go.
It's only like five years agothat it was sort of still a
little bit to do anti-wrinkle,but then now there's
20-year-olds that are gettingpreventative Botox.
Kate Coomber (19:59):
Or really changing the look of their face.
It used to be to de-age you alittle bit or maybe to slow down
the ageing, whereas now it'sreally young people who are
going for a totally different.
Bek Woodbine (20:10):
look, they don't come to my clinic because I
won't do it.
Sam Miklos (20:14):
Yeah, what are your thoughts?
Bek Woodbine (20:15):
I say no a lot Okay.
Kate Coomber (20:18):
A lot.
How does that work?
But they will go to otherclinics, yeah.
Bek Woodbine (20:21):
And you can tell certain aesthetics from certain
clinics yeah, 100%, it's likethe Kardashians they all look
the same.
Sam Miklos (20:31):
They do.
Bek Woodbine (20:32):
You can tell they all go to the same dermatologist
or plastic surgeon or whatever,but they all look the same.
They've all got the sameaesthetic.
Sam Miklos (20:39):
And I don't like that because, you're you.
Yeah.
Bek Woodbine (20:45):
So don't you just want to enhance a little bit?
See, I always say skin first.
Yes, get your skin looking good.
You know, look those britishactresses like judy dench and
those guys they still have thelines on their face.
They haven't had a face full offiller, they haven't had a
facelift, but their skin isbeautiful and anyone with
beautiful, flawless, clear skinis always going to look
(21:05):
fantastic with a few lines ontheir face.
It's like I hate treating aroundpeople's eyes.
So many people smile with theireyes.
Why would you want to stop that?
Sam Miklos (21:12):
yeah, you know, when you mentioned about your mum
had bought, bought you yardleycosmetics and my mum, at you
know, 12, had me with cliniqueand dramatically different all
of that what?
What would you say now to a youknow, a teenager?
And the best tips to givethemselves a really great skin
wear sunscreen wear a hat um.
Bek Woodbine (21:34):
Pimples are a normal part of life.
Sam Miklos (21:36):
What do you do with a pimple?
Bek Woodbine (21:38):
Leave it alone.
However, in saying that, nokid's going to go to school with
a big pustule on their face,are they?
So if I've got and I treat alot of acne in my clinic I get
them onto Azclea, which is Ego,which is an Australian brand.
It's got a high level ofazelaic acid, which is wonderful
for acne.
They've got a wash.
(22:00):
I say keep the wash in theshower, wash your face morning
and night.
They've got a treatment serumwhich will dry out a pimple, and
then they've got a moisturizerthat you use for the day.
That's got an SPF 40 or 50 init.
I love it.
It's brilliant, yeah, and letme tell you it's not expensive.
You know, most people don'tneed to spend a fortune on
(22:22):
skincare.
Just go to the chemist and getsome of those really great
products and start justcleansing your face.
I mean, half the boys that comein haven't even cleansed their
face.
Sam Miklos (22:32):
Yeah.
Kate Coomber (22:32):
It's good for parents to know, isn't it, that
they can come to someone likeyourself for their teenager, for
help, because I think somepeople might only think that
clinics are for injectables orfor you know.
I think that's a really.
What are the really popularthings that you see in your
clinic for just enhancing yourskin or helping with any of
those skin problems?
(22:53):
What are the really populartreatments?
Bek Woodbine (22:54):
perhaps, Probably first and foremost is if someone
comes in with acne, they comein, they have an assessment and
there are some, especially ifthey're blocked comedones, so
blocked pores, and you've got toget that product out.
So probably a steam and extractPeels.
We love peels.
Peels are just totallyunderrated, especially when it
(23:16):
comes to cellular turnover,keeping your skin nice and fresh
evening, the skin tone andtexture just fantastic.
Really popular at the moment isSoftwave, but that's more for
that ageing skin and it'sultrasound, so it's more about
lifting.
There's only three of us inBrizzy that have that device.
We're all a bit obsessed with it.
Kate Coomber (23:38):
Yeah, it sounds like something we need to look
into.
Yeah, it's really good.
Bek Woodbine (23:40):
It's not cheap, though because we've got to buy
shots and things all in USD andso it's not a cheap treatment,
but it's a one-off treatment.
Sam Miklos (23:48):
Just one.
People don't have time formultiple visits.
Bek Woodbine (23:52):
That's right.
And I say to most people ifyou've got good skin care, every
four to six weeks come and havesomething.
Sam Miklos (23:59):
If it's every quarter.
Bek Woodbine (24:01):
That's better than nothing.
The one I probably love themost out of everything is IPL
for skin rejuvenation, to getrid of pigmentation, to get rid
of vascularity redness.
It's really great for rosacea.
It's just this old workhorsethat we've had.
I've had for the last 20 years.
Kate Coomber (24:18):
Yeah, not new technology.
It's not new technology.
It went out of favour.
Bek Woodbine (24:21):
It's coming back into favour.
But oh my God, it just.
It's so good for your skin.
It brightens it, it evens thetone, it shuts down the pore
size.
Sam Miklos (24:30):
It's just sometimes the old tried and true is pretty
good Because there's a load ofcrazy stuff coming Like.
There's salmon, sperm facials.
Bek Woodbine (24:41):
Yeah, they're out already.
Sam Miklos (24:43):
Those are out already, and there was the
vampire facials at one point.
And then what was your friendsaying?
Kate Coomber (24:48):
No, she was talking, I think, about the
salmon sperm.
Sam Miklos (24:50):
But what's the?
Kate Coomber (24:51):
craziest, wildest things coming to market.
Bek Woodbine (25:03):
So that's the exosomes that come from the stem
cells.
My concern with that is that,yes, we know it works
anecdotally, because our clientscome back and say it works.
It hurts like there's notomorrow, injecting salmon sperm
into your face.
It really does hurt becauseyour skin does look beautiful,
(25:25):
but none of these treatments areactually evidence-based.
There's no robust researcharound any of it.
It's just anecdotal, like yousaid.
How does that happen?
Good marketing, it's comingfrom Korea.
It's great marketing.
Sam Miklos (25:40):
Has that been because there's been some major
changes in the regulation of thecosmetics industry?
What are those changes and doesit incorporate things like that
with this anecdotal?
Bek Woodbine (25:51):
So they're actually not big changes.
Sam Miklos (25:55):
Right.
Bek Woodbine (25:55):
That legislation has been there for quite a while
.
It's just that it's beenrevisited by.
Sam Miklos (26:01):
Queensland Health and what are those changes?
Is it just Queensland specific?
It's all about storage of drugs.
Right, it's already in Tasmania, okay.
Bek Woodbine (26:12):
And they're trying to change things here.
It's about a nurse practitioneror a doctor are the only ones
that are allowed to store S4drugs.
Kate Coomber (26:19):
Where does that leave Nurse-led clinics?
Bek Woodbine (26:22):
So they're scrambling, and it depends on
who their overseeing scriptingbody is, whether it's like Duvet
or Fresh, or there's a fewother ones out there.
So whether that means that theyare working in conjunction with
a nurse practitioner who has togo into clinic and they're the
ones that purchase the productand it's actually stored under
their name.
Sam Miklos (26:40):
Yeah.
Bek Woodbine (26:41):
Or it's you go and see a clinic and the product
gets sent to a pharmacy.
Now I see huge issues with thatin that patients are going to
pick up those products from thepharmacy and they're going to go
.
Oh, I can do this.
Sam Miklos (26:57):
Yeah.
Kate Coomber (26:57):
And go online and inject themselves.
Bek Woodbine (27:00):
Now, I know that that goes on.
They can pretend it doesn't,but it goes on because someone
who I'm friends with was sayingthat a guy she works with does
it.
Oh my, gosh Gets it fromoverseas, gets the botox from
overseas and injects himself.
Now the problem with that isrecently in the uk, because
(27:21):
anyone can inject in the uk.
They're trying to change thoserules.
Yeah, a beauty clinic, abeautician, beauty therapist
bought botox online from chinaand they all got botulinum
poisoning.
Kate Coomber (27:35):
And when you say they're doing it themselves, is
this like a nurse who knows whatthey're doing?
Bek Woodbine (27:40):
No, no, no, they're going on to YouTube
Watching it on YouTube Watchingit on.
Youtube A tutorial and thenfollowing I have seen a woman on
YouTube trying to teach who hasno idea.
Teaching people how to injectthemselves with fillers.
Kate Coomber (27:52):
That's frightening with the next generation, isn't
it Horrific, Social media, andI mean you know we've got young
children, young girls, that'sterrifying.
Sam Miklos (28:03):
So is there more regulation that's needed, like
it sounds like the ones you saidaround the storage of drugs?
Are there bigger problems outthere that need to be addressed?
Are there?
Bek Woodbine (28:15):
bigger problems out there that need to be
addressed?
Yeah, I think there are biggerproblems out there that need to
be addressed because, in myexperience and look, these are
the nurses I deal with, becauseyou know you find your tribe and
you tend to go with like-mindedpeople they are great injectors
, amazing injectors, and theyknow their scope of practice.
(28:39):
They don't work outside theirscope.
They will refer advanced youknow complex areas to me or to
other colleagues that you knowhave done the study and do that
sort of injecting.
I help a lot of my colleagueswith vascular occlusions, with
adverse events.
I'll often get a phone call.
Get them in, I assess them, Ilook after them and, moving
(29:02):
forward, you know I'll alwayssend them back to their clinic.
I'm not someone that will tryand poach patients, but you know
I'll help my colleagues and Ihave, and I do, and I've also
helped my medical colleagues whohave struggled with concerns.
Sam Miklos (29:17):
Yeah.
Bek Woodbine (29:18):
Because I do a lot of it.
I have ultrasound, I help a lotof my colleagues, I like doing
the complex treatments and Ilike helping my colleagues out
if there's a concern.
Kate Coomber (29:29):
I like it, you know.
Bek Woodbine (29:32):
So I do that, and then I have a fantastic network
around me of plastic surgeons,cosmetic physicians and
dermatologists that, if I'mstuck, I can get you know.
Sam Miklos (29:44):
They're on my fast dial and those guys will.
Bek Woodbine (29:47):
I never hesitate to call them and they will
always pick up and help.
And there's a lot of people outthere, even a lot of GPs, and
that that don't have the networkI have yeah, or want to be able
to solve it themselves.
Well, that then comes into see.
I have a real issue with GPsthinking that they can, just
because they're doctors, theycan inject one day a week.
Sam Miklos (30:06):
Yeah, which a lot are, a lot are yeah.
Bek Woodbine (30:16):
And in fact someone I know it's a client of
mine said to me last week that adoctor had come in to her.
She has a little salon of somedescription and a doctor came
into her space, you know,wanting to buy it, and then she
said oh no, let's just go 50-50.
And then her comment to her wasoh, these changes are so
fantastic because the nursessoon won't be able to inject and
(30:37):
there'll be more money for thedoctors.
Yeah, yeah, and that is themindset that's out there, rather
than there are a lot of peoplethat have spent a lot of money
doing up businesses, you know,paying rent, having to, you know
, lease places, lawyers, likeit's not cheap to run a clinic,
it's very expensive what's?
Sam Miklos (30:58):
oh sorry, I'm just gonna go separate.
What's the biggest myth thatyou hear in the cosmetics
industry?
Because you know people go oh,you put filler in, it's going to
end up all over your face.
There's lots of crazy thingsthat might be the case, but what
are some of those myths thatyou hear?
Bek Woodbine (31:14):
If filler is placed inappropriately, yes, it
can migrate.
If too much filler is placedinappropriately, it can migrate.
However, we now know that inareas like around the mouth and
around the eye that, yes, themajority of the filler will be
(31:34):
absorbed, dissipate, go.
However, what remains getsagitated by blinking, by moving
our mouth, by talking, and wenow know that the cells that are
left, or the molecules of thatfiller that are left behind,
they expand dramatically, like3,000 to 4,000 times its
original size.
Now you've four thousand timesits original size.
(31:56):
Now you've got to remember itsoriginal size is small.
However it will, it will getbigger and bigger and then it
can migrate and move.
Now I do have a colleague thathas never had filler in this
area and had to have a skincancer taken off her nose and in
the biopsy there was filler.
Had to have a skin cancer takenoff her nose and in the biopsy
(32:18):
there was filler.
So, yes, I do think it to somedegree can migrate.
I've got a couple of clientsthat have gone and had MRIs and
they had their cheeks done, dareI say it, very inappropriately
and in the wrong plane and thenthey had migration of filler all
up under their eyes.
And can you see that?
Kate Coomber (32:33):
Oh absolutely you can see it.
Bek Woodbine (32:35):
I can see it on my ultrasound, but you can see it
also on the MRI.
Yeah yeah.
And we've dissolved thatbecause she's having eye surgery
.
So what do?
Kate Coomber (32:43):
people.
Do you know, if people arelooking for a good clinician and
they want things done in anappropriate way?
How?
Sam Miklos (32:50):
do.
It's a saturated market market.
Yeah, how?
Kate Coomber (32:52):
do you know where to go if you're a, if you're a
parent with children and youwant to find a safe space for
them to actually look after skin, or if you want to enhance
yourself, like, how do peopleknow where to start?
I?
Bek Woodbine (33:03):
think you need to look at the clinic.
Look at the protocols aroundthat clinic.
Are they doing the right thing?
Look at that.
The best thing to do is look attheir Instagram.
Kate Coomber (33:15):
Yeah, because how does a consumer know what the
right thing is?
Bek Woodbine (33:17):
Because if they're not following the law, if
they're not following the TGArules and they've got before and
afters and a whole heap ofstuff on their Instagram- or
they're showing them injecting.
Kate Coomber (33:26):
Then people won't even know that that's not
allowed.
Bek Woodbine (33:30):
So you've got to do your research.
You've got to do your research,but they should look for the
before and after.
Sam Miklos (33:34):
Photos are no longer allowed.
No.
Bek Woodbine (33:36):
And you're not allowed to use the words
injecting any toxin like Botoxor Dysport or those sort of
words.
There's just so much you can'tsay or do, so I think anyone
worth their pinch of salt hasremoved all of that.
And yet in my podcast Iinterviewed the guys from
(33:59):
Operation Redress and they'revery big advocates for this
space for the consumer and theyare doing up an AI app that will
just go through and have a lookat websites, look at social
media, and it flags how manyerrors you have or things you
haven't changed.
(34:19):
He said.
Michael said to me do you mindif I have a look at your website
?
Now?
I had gone through everything.
I still had 36 mistakes on mywebsite because in the back end
and I didn't even know about theback end.
Sam Miklos (34:30):
Yeah, the back end I was going to say, looking at
the outward facing I had no idea.
Bek Woodbine (34:35):
So then we had to get in touch with our webmaster
and get him to take that off,because he'd still left that on
for the SEO.
Sam Miklos (34:41):
Yes.
Bek Woodbine (34:42):
I had no idea.
I was like no, I've removedeverything.
And he was going well, you'vegot 36.
He said most people havethousands.
Kate Coomber (34:49):
Yeah, wow.
Sam Miklos (34:51):
I've got so many questions.
Sorry no mine was off, so goahead Okay.
So, Bec, what are you mostproud of in all the things that
you've done and where you aretoday?
Bek Woodbine (35:04):
My family, my two kids and my husband, so they've
turned out to be really goodpeople.
Yeah, don't know why.
Sam Miklos (35:16):
What have you done?
What have you done?
Tell us, because we all heardPaul right.
Bek Woodbine (35:22):
Both the kids were involved in high-level sport so
that kept them busy.
And you know, I also wasn't oneof those parents that the kids
had to get all A's, all thatsort of stuff.
As long as I saw A for effort,I was fine.
They weren't allowed to sleepwith their phones.
(35:44):
They weren't allowed to taketheir phones into their rooms
because social media and allthat was just starting to take
off and there was a bit of youknow, there was pushback with
that and I just said to the kidsthat's fine, you pay for your
own phones, you can keep them inyour rooms, but while I'm
paying for them, they're mine todo with as I please.
(36:09):
So you know that was really goodand my husband is divine and
very supportive.
We did have a marriagebreakdown for about six months
and did that coincide with yourburnout period?
Yeah, and I just stoppeddrinking and there was so much
(36:30):
was going on.
But he was just amazing and itwasn't because of other people
or anything like that, it wasjust I was really unhappy.
Yeah, and how can?
Kate Coomber (36:41):
you give to someone else when you're trying
so hard to help yourself.
Bek Woodbine (36:43):
Yeah, and Claire had gone away and Jake was
finishing up.
I'd finished my nursepractitioner, so I just was lost
.
Sam Miklos (36:49):
Yeah, talk to us about that, because you
mentioned earlier about you'vegiven up alcohol, and that's a
journey so many people areexploring at the minute and
they're talking about it, but Ifeel like it's so hard for
people to actually give upbecause our culture is let's go
for a drink, let's go forknock-off drinks.
We go to restaurants and noweverything is paired with wines
and even though there's somegreat non-alcoholic options, it
(37:12):
seems tough.
So what was the prompter foryou and how's that journey been?
Bek Woodbine (37:17):
The journey is easier now but, it was very hard
in the first instance.
I knew it was becomingproblematic and I went and saw a
GP and was shamed by her.
And I went and saw a GP and wasshamed by her.
And I remember going out andsitting in the car and ringing a
(37:38):
friend of mine whose husband'sa psychiatrist, and I said to
her, would he see me?
And I knew that would be theend of that friendship because,
you know, I had to be veryrespectful of the fact that he
would now be my clinician.
He got me in within a couple ofdays and started me on a
(38:01):
medication called Camprel, but Idon't know if it was the
medication or I'd made thatdecision and then also had that
support that literally I neverhad a drink again and I haven't.
Now It'll be six years,beginning of next year.
So I think support makes a bigdifference.
(38:22):
I also, you know, I had tried AA.
I hated it.
I just couldn't stand nottouching anybody and someone
would be telling their story andreally distressed and the rules
are you can't touch anyonebecause you don't know what sort
of trauma they've had.
So I joined a group calledSmart Recovery Australia and I
(38:45):
could do it online and I couldbe anonymous.
And I realized going on to thatthat I was really lucky I was.
And I think if I had kept onthe trajectory that I was really
lucky I was, and I think if Ihad have kept on the trajectory
that I was on, I would have beenin the situation some of those
people were in, you know, beingcourt ordered or drink driving
(39:05):
or something like that.
But it really opened my eyes upto the struggle people are
having with the ability to getalcohol with no stop in between.
You know, during COVID, youknow it was classed as an
essential service, I meanseriously, I just have to say it
(39:28):
what the fuck?
And domestic violence wentthrough the roof during COVID
Alcohol sales went through theroof.
During COVID Alcohol sales wentthrough the roof and there were
women on there that had kids atschool and would just call up
and it would be deliveredstraight away to them.
Kate Coomber (39:48):
And working from home and you know Huge issues.
Bek Woodbine (39:52):
And you know people go.
Well, aren't you strong enough?
It's not that it's veryinsidious drinking and you feel
like you can cope and you'redoing okay until you can't.
It's like gambling, you know,and our culture is that if you
(40:13):
don't drink, there's somethingwrong with you.
And I have been told that.
Sam Miklos (40:16):
Yeah, have been told that, yeah, have you found that
difficult?
Like, have you lost friends?
Have you found it difficultgoing to functions At first?
I did.
I don't now.
Bek Woodbine (40:28):
But you know, just this weekend I struggled going
to an event because everyone wasdrinking, everyone was pairing
wine with food and I had to keepasking for my drink to get
filled up with sparkling water,you know, and it was in a
tumbler, whereas you know theycould have said, oh, let's get
you a wine glass and put somesparkling water in that for you,
(40:48):
you know perfect.
I love now that there's a lot ofplaces that do great mocktails
or see the states do it reallywell.
There's usually a whole page ofmocktail, or they call them
virgin cocktails, and just notdrinking is the norm over there.
People, if you don't drink,it's no big deal.
You don't drink here.
(41:09):
I had some person tell me oncethat you know he doesn't trust
anyone that doesn't drink.
I've had another guy.
We were at a Melbourne Cupfunction and offered to buy.
He sort of worked with thisgroup that you know.
His exact words were oh God,aren't you fucking boring?
Sam Miklos (41:28):
Oh, wow, and.
Bek Woodbine (41:33):
I left fairly quickly after that, or when I go
into events, and I just foundthis recently, I went into an
event and all they had was wine,champagne and beer at the front
entrance.
Sam Miklos (41:48):
Yeah.
Bek Woodbine (41:49):
It's not okay.
It's not okay anymore.
You've got to be able.
People have got to cater forpeople that are non-drinkers,
because that younger generationare not drinking.
Kate Coomber (42:00):
That's what I was going to say.
We notice here, you know, theyounger people coming through.
It's just a choice they'remaking.
Bek Woodbine (42:07):
It's such a great choice because, as we, go into
menopause and perimenopause?
What?
Alcohol does to our bodies, aswomen in particular, is
horrendous, and the more youdrink they now know it's linked
to alzheimer's, it's linked todementia, it's linked to poor
bone health.
Kate Coomber (42:24):
Anxiety is a huge thing for menopausal women and
it exacerbates all of that, youknow it's disappointing to hear
that you felt shamed by the gpwhen you tried to get help.
Yeah, and talking earlier aboutpeople bringing people down
within the healthcare sector andnot supporting success and just
(42:44):
not supporting each other, whatdo you think has to shift to
really create that happierhealthcare workforce in this
country?
What is one thing that we coulddo?
Bek Woodbine (42:57):
Support each other .
Education is paramount.
Education around self-care isparamount.
It's okay to say no.
I recently had significant backissues and I had to, and most
people wouldn't even know aboutthis.
(43:17):
I ended up having to find myown specialist because my GP
original GP didn't believe thatI was having falls because of
the major issues with my back.
I had a bit of foot drop.
I'd been to a pain specialistand she told me I was making it
up and drug seeking.
Went to emergency at St Andrewsbecause after the cyclone here
(43:40):
I moved some things and my backwas really bad, went in asking
for an MRI and he just treatedme horrifically and it was at
that point.
I then reached out tocolleagues and said to them you
know who do I see and you know Iwas able to get in and see them
, but most people don't havethose contacts.
(44:01):
So if I got treated that way asa health professional, what hope
do the general public have?
Or are the nurses that don'tknow, or haven't been around for
as long as I have been?
I mean and you hear this allthe time this gaslighting around
medicine?
I don't know what the answer is.
I think we need and you hearthis all the time, this
gaslighting around medicine.
I don't know what the answer is.
I think we need to support ouryoung people.
We need to encourage them tostay.
(44:21):
We need to let them know thatnursing isn't glamorous.
However, there are some amazingjob opportunities in nursing.
There's so many differentpathways, you can take.
Kate Coomber (44:31):
If one thing isn't for you, there still might be
something within nursing.
Do they talk?
Sam Miklos (44:36):
about, though, like how do you define self-care for
healthcare professionals whenthey're doing shift work?
They're doing back-to-back.
Bek Woodbine (44:49):
Is there a piece that we actually need to define
it?
I think that limiting thenumber of patients you're
looking after, having goodpatient-nurse ratios on wards,
is very important.
If a nurse can't work or stayback and she says no, respect
that usually there's a prettygood reason why someone can't
stay back.
Don't keep going to the samepeople that always say yes
(45:14):
because you'll end up burningthem out.
Always say yes because you'llend up burning them out.
We need to make sure thatthey're.
You know that as colleagues.
If you notice in someone thatsomeone's getting burnt out,
they've maybe made a couple ofmistakes.
They're coming to work a bitdusty, you know.
Instead of turning into thisbig drama, take them aside and
(45:37):
have a chat with them.
Kate Coomber (45:38):
Are you okay, are you?
Bek Woodbine (45:40):
okay, straight away.
You flagged with them thatsomeone's watching them, that
they know something's amiss, soand then, if someone does tell
you something, keep it aconfidence.
You know unless it's amandatory notification.
But and if you're a leader andsomeone talks to you, I've heard
(46:06):
so many horror stories aboutnurses going into their leaders
to talk about things and thenthat person has gone out and
spoken about it with otherpeople.
Kate Coomber (46:10):
That's a no-no To them.
That brings fear of notspeaking up.
Bek Woodbine (46:14):
And they won't yeah.
To them that brings fear of notspeaking up and they won't.
We have to support each other,you know.
Hold someone's space with themif they need you to Ask them if
they want help.
That's a big thing.
Ask Are you okay?
How can I help you?
Do you want help?
They might say no.
Sam Miklos (46:33):
Yeah.
Bek Woodbine (46:34):
They might be going through a marriage breakup
, their kid might be unwell,their dog could be sick for the
day, like, unless you ask, youwill never know.
So look after your colleaguesyou know be.
Collegial doctors actually dothis very well, nurses not so
much do you think it's becauseit's a largely female profession
(46:54):
?
I think yes, but I also thinkhistorically, nurses have been
notoriously awful to each otherand I have seen it time and time
and time again when I was inthe hospital, when I was in the
theatres.
(47:14):
I mean, I learnt very early onin the operating theatres to be
friends with everybody, just laylow, just be free, and I've
done that in the aesthetic space.
I've just kept to myself.
Kate Coomber (47:25):
It's interesting, isn't it, when you're in this
caring profession of caring forothers but not caring for one
another.
It sort of doesn't make sense.
Bek Woodbine (47:35):
The best wards I ever worked in had amazing
leaders and I can tell you offthe bat, when I trained it was
CC3 or CC4, which was diabetes,and I think her name was Beth
and she was standing in as CNC.
She was amazing and I loved her.
(47:55):
And then the other one was M6,which was infectious diseases,
and the ward was run by aregistered nurse called Dolly.
Sam Miklos (48:02):
What made those two so special?
Bek Woodbine (48:04):
They cared, they cared about their staff and they
cared about their patients andthey took the time to explain
things.
So I had an and I've spokenabout this on my podcast where a
daughter was just being a realcow to me and I was very young,
very stupid nurse, you know,very naive.
I was what?
17 at the time, 16, 17.
(48:25):
And I found her really rude andawful to me and I was just
doing the best I could.
And I can remember walking outof that ward or that room and
the CNC was there and I remembersaying to her I just can't make
this woman happy, I just don'tknow what I'm doing wrong.
And this woman came outprobably to complain about me, I
(48:48):
don't know and I remember shewalked down and opened her arms
up to that woman and that womanlaid a head on her shoulder and
cried that's all she needed.
Yeah, she was under stress.
Kate Coomber (48:58):
She was under stress.
Bek Woodbine (48:59):
She didn't need a 17-year-old trying to tell her
what to do.
I had no life skills, but myCNC did and I had enough insight
to watch that interaction to gookay.
I was way over my head here.
I was trying to be something.
I wasn't.
And I learnt a lot from thatone interaction because she was
(49:22):
such a remarkable leader,remarkable human you know, she
could read patients and familiesand yeah, it's funny, the
little interactions like thatthat I learnt a lot.
Dolly, big on education, nevertreated anyone like a fool.
If you didn't know she'd go,okay, let's get you some
education in that area.
(49:43):
But she was strict.
You know she was strict and weall had guidelines and we knew
what our rules were and you justdidn't break them because you
didn't want to let her down.
Yeah.
Kate Coomber (49:53):
But then unclear is unkind.
To know where you stand and toknow what you have to do and
have clarity around your rolemakes everyone perform better.
Bek Woodbine (50:01):
Oh, she, just.
They were two leaders thatreally stood out for me.
And yet my first ward at PA, ohmy God, I just have the worst
memories and nightmares, becausethe CNC was awful to us all.
The RNs didn't want to be there.
They were awful to all of us.
Out of all the new students,there was two of us that went on
(50:21):
to do nursing.
Sam Miklos (50:22):
Wow.
Bek Woodbine (50:23):
Everyone else left after six weeks Like a sink or
swim.
Kate Coomber (50:26):
Absolutely.
Bek Woodbine (50:28):
So when you think about nursing that way, I mean,
yeah, it was a hard.
I just don't think I thinkuniversity is a wonderful way,
do I think it could be better?
Absolutely.
But I don't think anyone shouldbe my age, where I was.
Just, I was 16, just turning 17, and throwing out bodies you
know, cleaning old men up.
Yeah, I just I look back now,and no wonder so many nurses
(50:52):
left.
There's just this hugeattrition rate doing it through
the hospitals that you don'thear about, but it happened yeah
.
Kate Coomber (51:01):
Thank you, Bec.
Cmr are making a donation to acharity of your choice with this
episode.
Where are we donating thatmoney to?
I'd like it to go to FAIR.
Bek Woodbine (51:10):
Well, I think it's FAIR Australia, which is all
around alcohol research, whichis all around alcohol research,
fetal alcohol syndrome research,stopping or research around
cessation of advertising and theability to get alcohol so
quickly.
So, yeah, it's close to myheart.
I think it's a wonderfulorganisation.
(51:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
Sam Miklos (51:32):
Thank you so much.
Bec, you're welcome.
It's been an absolute pleasureto have you here today, and
we've covered a lot of topics.
Kate Coomber (51:39):
We've gone all over yeah.
Sam Miklos (51:41):
But we're so grateful for our time with you
today.
Bek Woodbine (51:44):
You are more than welcome and thank you so much
for asking me.
It's been a delight to be onthe other side of the microphone
.
Kate Coomber (51:49):
Yeah, stay tuned for part two of this
conversation coming soon.
We Part two of thisconversation coming soon.
We acknowledge the traditionalcustodians of the land of which
we meet who for centuries haveshared ancient methods of
healing and cared for theircommunities.
We pay our respects to elders,past and present.
When the very systems we work in don't promote
self-care, how can we genuinelycreate happy healthcare
communities?
Bek Woodbine (00:06):
But one of the nurses was telling me that she
had just done a 12-hour shift.
Then they asked her to do an8-hour shift, after which she
said yes to, and then theywanted her to turn around and do
an early.
And I said to her where's thefatigue management in this?
But I said to her if you make adrug error, whose fault will it
be?
And she said to her if you makea drug error, whose fault will
it be?
And she said, oh, it'd be mine.
(00:26):
I said would the hospitalsupport you?
Kate Coomber (00:29):
She said probably not.
If you're loving these episodes, don't forget to click, follow
and subscribe, and follow us onInstagram for all the
behind-the-scenes fun.
Sam Miklos (00:43):
So today we're joined by Bec Woodbine, host of
Tenderness for Nurses podcastand founder of Perfectly Smooth,
Brisbane's premier medicalbeauty clinic.
Bec is a passionate advocatefor nurse self-care and
fostering a culture ofcompassion among healthcare
workers.
In her own podcast, Bec createsa safe space for her guests to
share their own journey, andtoday we feel so lucky to have
(01:04):
her here to share her journeywith us.
Welcome back to.
It Takes Heart.
Bek Woodbine (01:07):
Thank you so much for inviting me.
I'm actually very excited to beon the other side of the
microphone today, albeit alittle bit nervous, because it's
just a little bit differentwhen you're not in this, you
know driving seat.
Sam Miklos (01:19):
So it makes us feel better.
We've been terrified abouttoday.
We've been so nervous andbecause we've had to keep moving
it, I've had the shingles and Ithink you lost your voice one
time as well, so it's beenpushing it down, appreciate you
coming in, but it's the righttiming.
Yes, yes.
Today is when it was meant tobe.
We'll have our bestconversation.
Kate Coomber (01:37):
Definitely so.
We'd love to.
I know that I discovered yourpodcast before us doing this,
and what led you to start I knowthat you talked about Rock
Bottom brought you to thepodcast in one of those first
episodes.
Bek Woodbine (01:56):
Can you talk to us a little bit about that I had
wanted to do a podcast for along time and I thought
initially it would be more aboutthe aesthetic space, but
there's so many podcasts outthere about that and, to be
quite honest, it's really boring.
So I'd had my own journey withstopping drinking, with burnout
getting to the stage where Ididn't want to go into work, had
(02:19):
to take a year off work but runthe business from behind, which
had its own challenges.
Year off work and but run thebusiness from behind, which had
its own challenges.
And I'm someone that says if.
I'm going to do something.
I do it, and I actually spoketo a friend of mine, katie
Matton, who was also, you knowshe they own Podshape yeah and
she said just do it, bec, justdo it.
(02:41):
And so I did.
I just got in touch with awhole heap of friends,
colleagues, people that I knewwould have really interesting
stories, and they all said yes,they all came in.
You had the network I had thenetwork and I have had some and
it gives me goosebumps.
Remarkable.
They've all been remarkable,but there are some that have
(03:04):
shared such intimate, beautifuldetails of themselves and you
know my listeners get to hearthat and the response has been
so many people come back and go.
Oh my God, that is exactly howI felt, or you helped me
navigate through a really roughtime, or the interesting thing
(03:25):
is probably the number of peoplethat reach out to me now about
stopping drinking.
That's huge.
Kate Coomber (03:31):
So can you talk a little bit because again you
know you're the host andinterviewing all of these people
.
And you're again sharing theirstories.
You know to talk about you andyour own personal experience.
What is it?
You know what did that looklike for you, because we've done
a lot of episodes.
Now we're talking a lot aboutburnout and a lot of people
feeling it, and it's moreprevalent than ever.
What did that look like for youto bring you to that stopping
(03:55):
point?
Bek Woodbine (03:57):
I was.
I had no boundaries.
I said yes to everybody.
Sam Miklos (04:03):
Was that in work and personally as well?
Bek Woodbine (04:05):
both yeah, more work.
Kate Coomber (04:08):
I couldn't say no to patients.
It wasn't when you werehospital nursing.
Bek Woodbine (04:10):
It was no, but even hospital nursing.
I would be that person thatthey would ask to do over time
because, I'd always say yes.
I got to the stage and Iremember this beautiful client
came in and I started to develophorrendous anxiety, terrible
anxiety.
And she came in and this oneday I couldn't stop shaking and
(04:35):
I couldn't inject her, and itwasn't from anything other than
I was so anxious and I couldn'teven tell you why I was anxious.
Kate Coomber (04:44):
Yeah, it wasn't like anything was happening that
day.
Bek Woodbine (04:46):
No, no, but it's like everything in life, nothing
just sort of happens on its own.
There were quite a few thingsthat were happening all at once
and it just got to the point Icouldn't cope with it all.
And it was at that point, youknow, I sort of stepped away,
took some time out.
(05:06):
It has taken a long time towork through burnout and anxiety
, and I do see a psychiatristbecause my anxiety was so bad
and actually I was diagnosedwith depression and anxiety.
So then I started treatmentswith that and I've been a
different person.
(05:27):
But it's something I have towork on all the time.
Kate Coomber (05:30):
And how did that feel to get that diagnosis?
Sam Miklos (05:34):
Being a healthcare worker particularly too.
Bek Woodbine (05:40):
It was actually very confronting, very
confronting.
And the treatment I had I'dnever even heard of it TMS,
which is transcranial magneticsequencing but it changed my
life and interestingly, there'sa laser company that's bringing
out a lower level of TMS intothe wellness space, of which I
am highly opposed to because Ihave to.
(06:03):
When you have those sort oftreatments you know I'm under
the care of a psychiatrist I wasgonna say talk us through what
is yeah so TMS, you have to havea threshold testing.
So it's like a big magnet sitson your head and it sends pulses
down into your brain.
So left side's depression,right side anxiety I think both
(06:24):
are PTSD and pain is your M1,which sits along the top of your
head, and actually my painspecialist, because I have
recently had back surgery he'slooking at getting a TMS machine
for pain and it has improved mypain since going back and
having some TMS again.
(06:44):
But what it does is you canhave seizures with it.
So usually it is done under thecare of a registered nurse,
under the supervision of apsychiatrist.
Prior to COVID, you had to goin to hospital to have it done,
but now they're setting upclinics and now one of the laser
companies is out therepromoting it and Gwyneth Paltrow
(07:06):
just put something up on herwebsite or Instagram about
trying it and I just see.
Sam Miklos (07:12):
That's so irresponsible.
Bek Woodbine (07:14):
So it's so irresponsible and you know
people.
You can't be taking drugs.
There's certain drugs you can'tbe on.
You can't be using recreationaldrugs.
When you have these treatments,someone who may be misdiagnosed
or undiagnosed might go and tryand have those treatments and
think it's going to help, and itdoesn't.
Kate Coomber (07:36):
And is there earlier things you can do before
you get to that treatment too,or is it sometimes just?
Bek Woodbine (07:43):
it's best suited for certain people.
I think mine by that stage wasso bad that that was the choice
by the psychiatrist.
Kate Coomber (07:49):
Yes, so it's not like when you were talking about
the wellness of just anyone canjust oh, let's go and do that.
Bek Woodbine (07:54):
Well look, she was promoting it for perimenopause.
I mean, everyone's promotingeverything for menopause and
perimenopause.
It's sort of the it thing at themoment.
It changed my life and it savedme.
There's no doubt about that.
It just concerns me that it'sgoing to be another thing in the
wellness space that reallyshouldn't be touted as something
(08:17):
that's just for wellness, whenyou know it's going to be double
the price of what the machineis that's in my psychiatrist's
office, nowhere near as umeffective, and I just see it.
You know, hitting vulnerablepeople.
Vulnerable people are going tobe the ones that are using this
and once again, the aestheticindustry is targeting vulnerable
(08:37):
people you.
Sam Miklos (08:40):
You said a little bit earlier there that um now
have to work on.
You know you're managingburnout every single day.
Yeah, what does that look like?
And one other question was inthe lead up to that moment where
you just couldn't inject, wasthere little micro signs that,
on reflection, you….
Oh, absolutely, yeah, what werethose signs and what does it
(09:02):
look like every day?
Now for you to keep on top ofit.
Bek Woodbine (09:05):
So to keep on top of it, I've limited my injecting
hours.
It doesn't mean that I'm notinvolved in the business full
time, but I'm not having thatconstant face-to-face.
I have got a really good teamaround me and they probably
manage me better because I stillhave that tendency to add
people on and try and you know,please everybody and a lot of
(09:29):
nurses are people pleasers- Imean, that's why we do what we
do.
Sam Miklos (09:32):
You know we're carers.
Like you said, you can't say noOver time.
Would you work?
Yes, yes, I want to.
Bek Woodbine (09:37):
And, interestingly , when I was in hospital
recently, you know, after havingsurgery, one of the nurses came
in and they were fantastic atBrisbane Private and thanks,
guys, you were wonderful.
But one of the nurses wastelling me that she had just
done a 12-hour shift.
Then they asked her to do aneight-hour shift, after which
she said yes to, and then theywanted her to turn around and do
(09:59):
an early.
And I said to her where's thefatigue management in this?
And yes, they do get paid wellfor that.
But I said to her, if you makea drug error, whose fault will
it be?
And she said oh, it'd be mine.
I said would the hospitalsupport you?
She said probably not.
I said so why are you taking onthese extra shifts?
Sam Miklos (10:21):
But equally, why are they putting the staff in that?
Where's the leadership in allof that as well?
Bek Woodbine (10:26):
Exactly, and that then goes back to the point that
there's not enough nurses.
We can't retain nurses, becauseyou know we're treated still so
badly.
Sam Miklos (10:39):
Self-care for nurses , then how can we better support
the nursing community, andparticularly when you've got
leaders asking them to do moreshifts and you know fatigue
management, there's all.
There's so much systemicallythat they've got to deal with.
What would you like to see orhow do you think we can better
support them?
Bek Woodbine (11:00):
I think we need to change the way we think.
Over and over again, I'm stillhearing from nurses that we eat
our own.
That has to change.
Sam Miklos (11:12):
What does that mean?
We eat our own.
Bek Woodbine (11:13):
So if a nurse is doing well or they want to go
places and this has reallyhappened with my colleagues as
nurse practitioners it's such anodd space to be in because
there's a lot of nurses thatdon't like us.
A lot of GPs don't like us.
Specialists love us becausewe're that highest clinical
(11:34):
level.
A lot of us are going out andsetting up our own businesses
and working independently, soGPs in medicine find that
threatening, except, of course,specialists who are at the top
of the ladder.
Other nurses don't like iteither because they're not
willing to put the time andeffort in to study and it is a
really, really hard master'scourse to do.
Kate Coomber (11:59):
If the nurses don't see it as more support.
So you know, I don't think so.
Bek Woodbine (12:04):
It's a tall poppy syndrome in nursing and
historically, you know if youwere really good at something.
Or you know, for example, whenI worked in a day surgery center
, I used to love suturing and Iwould suture my ask the doctors
to teach me how to suture thepatients.
Now, look, it was just.
(12:25):
You know some ports forlaparoscopies and things like
that.
But the team around me had acrack at me and they just said,
oh, you just want to be a doctor.
I never sutured again afterthat Because they saw me working
outside or thinking I wassomething I wasn't.
And that happens all the time,instead of supporting each other
(12:49):
and just going oh my God,you're a fantastic leader.
Let's work with you to become aleader in this space.
Sam Miklos (12:55):
Yeah, lean into your superpower, I guess that's not
just healthcare, is it?
Kate Coomber (12:59):
That's just our culture?
I think that's across the board.
I think that's very.
Bek Woodbine (13:02):
Australian, you know, to a poppy syndrome that
we all talk about.
You certainly don't get this inthe States.
When I go to the States and goto the conferences and catch up
with my colleagues over there,they love anyone that is doing
great, they love anyone that ismaking money, they love people
that are going to stand up onstage and in fact nurses are
(13:22):
boycotting any conferences,anything like that if there are
no nurses speaking now.
Sam Miklos (13:29):
That's really good to see, because that's it to
hearing from each other.
But how would we, how can wechange that here if the States
is leading the way but we're not?
Is there some really like lowlevel, low lying fruit that we
could, you know, grab onto tomake some change?
I think this younger generationthat are could, you know, grab
onto to make some change.
Bek Woodbine (13:45):
I think this younger generation that are
coming through they're not goingto put up with this.
Sam Miklos (13:49):
No, I was thinking that when you were speaking too.
I was like surely thatgeneration, if nothing else, is
going to start to change.
Kate Coomber (13:53):
Who have big dreams and they really do want,
they do yeah.
Bek Woodbine (13:56):
However, all of you know what do they say.
They're different careers intheir lifetime.
However, in nursing you can haveseven different careers.
You can do theatre, you can doER, you can do rural and remote
there's, you can do overseas.
You know Red Cross.
(14:19):
There is so much you can do innursing.
That just opens up to you ifyou want to.
I mean, in my career I've donechildren's, I've done workplace
health and safety, I've donepalliative care, I've done
theatre, I've done aestheticsand I've done dermatology and
throw in that a few likerecovery theatre and
anaesthetics.
You know, like I have had aremarkable nursing career,
remarkable the things I havedone and I loved segueing and
(14:39):
I've always loved workingindependently and I think that's
a difference as well.
I loved segueing and I'vealways loved working
independently, and I thinkthat's a difference as well.
Kate Coomber (14:44):
Do you think that people are encouraged to branch
out from what they're doing, orpeople preferring them to stay
in the lane and stay here?
Because we've certainly noticedthat you know nursing graduates
coming out.
They maybe not know of theopportunities that are available
to them, that they couldactually do all of these
different fields and differentlocations around Australia.
Bek Woodbine (15:11):
And there's so much opportunity.
I just say, you know, get ontoa program, a graduate program,
try and work in as many placesas you can.
You know, do high dependency,do ward work, do medical, do
rehab, do do whatever and trydifferent things because you
will find your passion.
And once you become a nursepractitioner, we do specialize.
Even though my nursepractitioners was in primary
health care, I have specializedin dermatology and cosmetic
(15:35):
dermatology.
Kate Coomber (15:35):
So aesthetics, and what drew you to that?
Because you had had a vastcareer in all those areas and
you could have done yourmaster's and and I guess, become
that nurse practitioner.
Bek Woodbine (15:45):
I bought a little spray tan business.
Sam Miklos (15:47):
Oh, did you.
Bek Woodbine (15:48):
Just to make some moolah on the side?
Was that when?
Sam Miklos (15:50):
spray tanning was like a new like when they were
doing it in the garage, in thetents.
And yeah, everyone was orange,there was only one there was sun
effects.
Kate Coomber (15:58):
That was it.
Bek Woodbine (16:01):
And everyone poo-pooed me, and, and everyone
poo-pooed me, and then I starteddoing it.
Why did they poo-poo?
Kate Coomber (16:07):
you, because you know I was doing something
different and making money, andmaking money, and we did.
Bek Woodbine (16:10):
I did very well from that little business.
But then I thought here I amdoing this and I really could be
doing skin and I've alwaysloved skin.
I mean God.
My mum bought me a Yardleyskincare pack when I was in
grade seven.
You know, I've looked after myskin.
I have always been interestedin skin and I thought this is
(16:32):
nuts.
So I put together a businessplan and bought a laser machine
and then it was all self-taughtbecause there was no courses
around.
And then my business grew andgrew and grew and then the
number of people that wereasking me to inject and I didn't
want to, I wasn't reallyinterested in going down that
pathway.
And why was that?
It didn't interest me like skin, yeah, and I love my lasers.
Sam Miklos (16:56):
What were the lasers doing?
Bek Woodbine (16:58):
Like skin hair removal skin rejuvenation
vascularity, all of those things.
So I just decided that I'dlearn it, and the only way to
learn at that stage was gettingsomeone that would teach you and
then going to every singletraining you could.
That was put on by theaesthetic companies, that was
(17:19):
put on by the farmers, and I did, and I asked questions and I
went to every conference and Iwould pick people's brains and I
practiced and I would watchthings online, and it just went
from there.
And then I started trainingother people and then I worked
for Galderma and within my ownclinic and I'm lucky because
(17:41):
I've never been someone that'sover-injected people.
I've never liked that aestheticof big cheeks, big lips, frozen
heads, that sort of thing.
So I'm very grateful that I didfollow my gut, because now we
realise that a lot of things inthe aesthetic space aren't what
we thought they were.
Kate Coomber (17:59):
Well, yeah, like talk to us about that.
It's an interesting space froman outsider, I guess, looking in
.
Yeah, like talk to us aboutthat.
It's an interesting space froman outsider, I guess looking in.
And you know I was watching afilm recently of what is it?
Death Becomes Her, where theywere drinking the magic potion
to de-age, and you know it wasan 80s film or something and I
was like that's reallyinteresting.
Bek Woodbine (18:18):
I think no one's allowed to age yeah, where we're
at now Anymore.
And you know, more power tothose women that go and have
facelifts and want to do that.
And you know I work in thisspace.
I refer people on to differentplastic surgeons.
You know I've had a lip liftdone.
I've had my eyelids done.
I, you know, occasionally put abit of anti-wrinkle in my face.
(18:40):
I don't have any fillers in myface, but I do have
biostimulator.
But the number of people inHollywood, for example I just
was watching Brooke Shields andshe's not having a facelift and
the number of women that werebagging her online because she
didn't, she looked.
Sam Miklos (19:01):
She's aged.
Bek Woodbine (19:02):
Well, she looks her age.
Sam Miklos (19:03):
She looks 70.
Kate Coomber (19:04):
I think she actually looks fantastic for 70.
Yeah, yeah.
Bek Woodbine (19:06):
But then they put up the women that were making
the comments about her, and noneof them were wallflowers.
I have to tell you they wereyou know women that looked like
they had aged not well, yeah,why are we shaming each other
yeah.
If someone wants to have afacelift, you'd go for gold.
Sam Miklos (19:26):
I love it.
Bek Woodbine (19:27):
You're going to look fantastic More power to you
If you don't want one.
Fantastic More power to you.
It's everybody's choice andit's really personal.
Buy more power to you If youdon't want one fantastic More
power to you.
It's everybody's choice andit's really personal.
It's really personal if someonehas anti-wrinkle or not.
It's really personal if someonewants their lips done.
Do I like the aesthetic ofthese huge lips?
No, I hate it.
I hate it.
Sam Miklos (19:46):
And it's interesting because it's getting younger
and younger.
Kate Coomber (19:49):
That's where.
Sam Miklos (19:50):
I was going to go.
It's only like five years agothat it was sort of still a
little bit to do anti-wrinkle,but then now there's
20-year-olds that are gettingpreventative Botox.
Kate Coomber (19:59):
Or really changing the look of their face.
It used to be to de-age you alittle bit or maybe to slow down
the ageing, whereas now it'sreally young people who are
going for a totally different.
Bek Woodbine (20:10):
look, they don't come to my clinic because I
won't do it.
Sam Miklos (20:14):
Yeah, what are your thoughts?
Bek Woodbine (20:15):
I say no a lot Okay.
Kate Coomber (20:18):
A lot.
How does that work?
But they will go to otherclinics, yeah.
Bek Woodbine (20:21):
And you can tell certain aesthetics from certain
clinics yeah, 100%, it's likethe Kardashians they all look
the same.
Sam Miklos (20:31):
They do.
Bek Woodbine (20:32):
You can tell they all go to the same dermatologist
or plastic surgeon or whatever,but they all look the same.
They've all got the sameaesthetic.
Sam Miklos (20:39):
And I don't like that because, you're you.
Yeah.
Bek Woodbine (20:45):
So don't you just want to enhance a little bit?
See, I always say skin first.
Yes, get your skin looking good.
You know, look those britishactresses like judy dench and
those guys they still have thelines on their face.
They haven't had a face full offiller, they haven't had a
facelift, but their skin isbeautiful and anyone with
beautiful, flawless, clear skinis always going to look
(21:05):
fantastic with a few lines ontheir face.
It's like I hate treating aroundpeople's eyes.
So many people smile with theireyes.
Why would you want to stop that?
Sam Miklos (21:12):
yeah, you know, when you mentioned about your mum
had bought, bought you yardleycosmetics and my mum, at you
know, 12, had me with cliniqueand dramatically different all
of that what?
What would you say now to a youknow, a teenager?
And the best tips to givethemselves a really great skin
wear sunscreen wear a hat um.
Bek Woodbine (21:34):
Pimples are a normal part of life.
Sam Miklos (21:36):
What do you do with a pimple?
Bek Woodbine (21:38):
Leave it alone.
However, in saying that, nokid's going to go to school with
a big pustule on their face,are they?
So if I've got and I treat alot of acne in my clinic I get
them onto Azclea, which is Ego,which is an Australian brand.
It's got a high level ofazelaic acid, which is wonderful
for acne.
They've got a wash.
(22:00):
I say keep the wash in theshower, wash your face morning
and night.
They've got a treatment serumwhich will dry out a pimple, and
then they've got a moisturizerthat you use for the day.
That's got an SPF 40 or 50 init.
I love it.
It's brilliant, yeah, and letme tell you it's not expensive.
You know, most people don'tneed to spend a fortune on
(22:22):
skincare.
Just go to the chemist and getsome of those really great
products and start justcleansing your face.
I mean, half the boys that comein haven't even cleansed their
face.
Sam Miklos (22:32):
Yeah.
Kate Coomber (22:32):
It's good for parents to know, isn't it, that
they can come to someone likeyourself for their teenager, for
help, because I think somepeople might only think that
clinics are for injectables orfor you know.
I think that's a really.
What are the really popularthings that you see in your
clinic for just enhancing yourskin or helping with any of
those skin problems?
(22:53):
What are the really populartreatments?
Bek Woodbine (22:54):
perhaps, Probably first and foremost is if someone
comes in with acne, they comein, they have an assessment and
there are some, especially ifthey're blocked comedones, so
blocked pores, and you've got toget that product out.
So probably a steam and extractPeels.
We love peels.
Peels are just totallyunderrated, especially when it
(23:16):
comes to cellular turnover,keeping your skin nice and fresh
evening, the skin tone andtexture just fantastic.
Really popular at the moment isSoftwave, but that's more for
that ageing skin and it'sultrasound, so it's more about
lifting.
There's only three of us inBrizzy that have that device.
We're all a bit obsessed with it.
Kate Coomber (23:38):
Yeah, it sounds like something we need to look
into.
Yeah, it's really good.
Bek Woodbine (23:40):
It's not cheap, though because we've got to buy
shots and things all in USD andso it's not a cheap treatment,
but it's a one-off treatment.
Sam Miklos (23:48):
Just one.
People don't have time formultiple visits.
Bek Woodbine (23:52):
That's right.
And I say to most people ifyou've got good skin care, every
four to six weeks come and havesomething.
Sam Miklos (23:59):
If it's every quarter.
Bek Woodbine (24:01):
That's better than nothing.
The one I probably love themost out of everything is IPL
for skin rejuvenation, to getrid of pigmentation, to get rid
of vascularity redness.
It's really great for rosacea.
It's just this old workhorsethat we've had.
I've had for the last 20 years.
Kate Coomber (24:18):
Yeah, not new technology.
It's not new technology.
It went out of favour.
Bek Woodbine (24:21):
It's coming back into favour.
But oh my God, it just.
It's so good for your skin.
It brightens it, it evens thetone, it shuts down the pore
size.
Sam Miklos (24:30):
It's just sometimes the old tried and true is pretty
good Because there's a load ofcrazy stuff coming Like.
There's salmon, sperm facials.
Bek Woodbine (24:41):
Yeah, they're out already.
Sam Miklos (24:43):
Those are out already, and there was the
vampire facials at one point.
And then what was your friendsaying?
Kate Coomber (24:48):
No, she was talking, I think, about the
salmon sperm.
Sam Miklos (24:50):
But what's the?
Kate Coomber (24:51):
craziest, wildest things coming to market.
Bek Woodbine (25:03):
So that's the exosomes that come from the stem
cells.
My concern with that is that,yes, we know it works
anecdotally, because our clientscome back and say it works.
It hurts like there's notomorrow, injecting salmon sperm
into your face.
It really does hurt becauseyour skin does look beautiful,
(25:25):
but none of these treatments areactually evidence-based.
There's no robust researcharound any of it.
It's just anecdotal, like yousaid.
How does that happen?
Good marketing, it's comingfrom Korea.
It's great marketing.
Sam Miklos (25:40):
Has that been because there's been some major
changes in the regulation of thecosmetics industry?
What are those changes and doesit incorporate things like that
with this anecdotal?
Bek Woodbine (25:51):
So they're actually not big changes.
Sam Miklos (25:55):
Right.
Bek Woodbine (25:55):
That legislation has been there for quite a while
.
It's just that it's beenrevisited by.
Sam Miklos (26:01):
Queensland Health and what are those changes?
Is it just Queensland specific?
It's all about storage of drugs.
Right, it's already in Tasmania, okay.
Bek Woodbine (26:12):
And they're trying to change things here.
It's about a nurse practitioneror a doctor are the only ones
that are allowed to store S4drugs.
Kate Coomber (26:19):
Where does that leave Nurse-led clinics?
Bek Woodbine (26:22):
So they're scrambling, and it depends on
who their overseeing scriptingbody is, whether it's like Duvet
or Fresh, or there's a fewother ones out there.
So whether that means that theyare working in conjunction with
a nurse practitioner who has togo into clinic and they're the
ones that purchase the productand it's actually stored under
their name.
Sam Miklos (26:40):
Yeah.
Bek Woodbine (26:41):
Or it's you go and see a clinic and the product
gets sent to a pharmacy.
Now I see huge issues with thatin that patients are going to
pick up those products from thepharmacy and they're going to go
.
Oh, I can do this.
Sam Miklos (26:57):
Yeah.
Kate Coomber (26:57):
And go online and inject themselves.
Bek Woodbine (27:00):
Now, I know that that goes on.
They can pretend it doesn't,but it goes on because someone
who I'm friends with was sayingthat a guy she works with does
it.
Oh my, gosh Gets it fromoverseas, gets the botox from
overseas and injects himself.
Now the problem with that isrecently in the uk, because
(27:21):
anyone can inject in the uk.
They're trying to change thoserules.
Yeah, a beauty clinic, abeautician, beauty therapist
bought botox online from chinaand they all got botulinum
poisoning.
Kate Coomber (27:35):
And when you say they're doing it themselves, is
this like a nurse who knows whatthey're doing?
Bek Woodbine (27:40):
No, no, no, they're going on to YouTube
Watching it on YouTube Watchingit on.
Youtube A tutorial and thenfollowing I have seen a woman on
YouTube trying to teach who hasno idea.
Teaching people how to injectthemselves with fillers.
Kate Coomber (27:52):
That's frightening with the next generation, isn't
it Horrific, Social media, andI mean you know we've got young
children, young girls, that'sterrifying.
Sam Miklos (28:03):
So is there more regulation that's needed, like
it sounds like the ones you saidaround the storage of drugs?
Are there bigger problems outthere that need to be addressed?
Are there?
Bek Woodbine (28:15):
bigger problems out there that need to be
addressed?
Yeah, I think there are biggerproblems out there that need to
be addressed because, in myexperience and look, these are
the nurses I deal with, becauseyou know you find your tribe and
you tend to go with like-mindedpeople they are great injectors
, amazing injectors, and theyknow their scope of practice.
(28:39):
They don't work outside theirscope.
They will refer advanced youknow complex areas to me or to
other colleagues that you knowhave done the study and do that
sort of injecting.
I help a lot of my colleagueswith vascular occlusions, with
adverse events.
I'll often get a phone call.
Get them in, I assess them, Ilook after them and, moving
(29:02):
forward, you know I'll alwayssend them back to their clinic.
I'm not someone that will tryand poach patients, but you know
I'll help my colleagues and Ihave, and I do, and I've also
helped my medical colleagues whohave struggled with concerns.
Sam Miklos (29:17):
Yeah.
Bek Woodbine (29:18):
Because I do a lot of it.
I have ultrasound, I help a lotof my colleagues, I like doing
the complex treatments and Ilike helping my colleagues out
if there's a concern.
Kate Coomber (29:29):
I like it, you know.
Bek Woodbine (29:32):
So I do that, and then I have a fantastic network
around me of plastic surgeons,cosmetic physicians and
dermatologists that, if I'mstuck, I can get you know.
Sam Miklos (29:44):
They're on my fast dial and those guys will.
Bek Woodbine (29:47):
I never hesitate to call them and they will
always pick up and help.
And there's a lot of people outthere, even a lot of GPs, and
that that don't have the networkI have yeah, or want to be able
to solve it themselves.
Well, that then comes into see.
I have a real issue with GPsthinking that they can, just
because they're doctors, theycan inject one day a week.
Sam Miklos (30:06):
Yeah, which a lot are, a lot are yeah.
Bek Woodbine (30:16):
And in fact someone I know it's a client of
mine said to me last week that adoctor had come in to her.
She has a little salon of somedescription and a doctor came
into her space, you know,wanting to buy it, and then she
said oh no, let's just go 50-50.
And then her comment to her wasoh, these changes are so
fantastic because the nursessoon won't be able to inject and
(30:37):
there'll be more money for thedoctors.
Yeah, yeah, and that is themindset that's out there, rather
than there are a lot of peoplethat have spent a lot of money
doing up businesses, you know,paying rent, having to, you know
, lease places, lawyers, likeit's not cheap to run a clinic,
it's very expensive what's?
Sam Miklos (30:58):
oh sorry, I'm just gonna go separate.
What's the biggest myth thatyou hear in the cosmetics
industry?
Because you know people go oh,you put filler in, it's going to
end up all over your face.
There's lots of crazy thingsthat might be the case, but what
are some of those myths thatyou hear?
Bek Woodbine (31:14):
If filler is placed inappropriately, yes, it
can migrate.
If too much filler is placedinappropriately, it can migrate.
However, we now know that inareas like around the mouth and
around the eye that, yes, themajority of the filler will be
(31:34):
absorbed, dissipate, go.
However, what remains getsagitated by blinking, by moving
our mouth, by talking, and wenow know that the cells that are
left, or the molecules of thatfiller that are left behind,
they expand dramatically, like3,000 to 4,000 times its
original size.
Now you've four thousand timesits original size.
(31:56):
Now you've got to remember itsoriginal size is small.
However it will, it will getbigger and bigger and then it
can migrate and move.
Now I do have a colleague thathas never had filler in this
area and had to have a skincancer taken off her nose and in
the biopsy there was filler.
Had to have a skin cancer takenoff her nose and in the biopsy
(32:18):
there was filler.
So, yes, I do think it to somedegree can migrate.
I've got a couple of clientsthat have gone and had MRIs and
they had their cheeks done, dareI say it, very inappropriately
and in the wrong plane and thenthey had migration of filler all
up under their eyes.
And can you see that?
Kate Coomber (32:33):
Oh absolutely you can see it.
Bek Woodbine (32:35):
I can see it on my ultrasound, but you can see it
also on the MRI.
Yeah yeah.
And we've dissolved thatbecause she's having eye surgery
.
So what do?
Kate Coomber (32:43):
people.
Do you know, if people arelooking for a good clinician and
they want things done in anappropriate way?
How?
Sam Miklos (32:50):
do.
It's a saturated market market.
Yeah, how?
Kate Coomber (32:52):
do you know where to go if you're a, if you're a
parent with children and youwant to find a safe space for
them to actually look after skin, or if you want to enhance
yourself, like, how do peopleknow where to start?
I?
Bek Woodbine (33:03):
think you need to look at the clinic.
Look at the protocols aroundthat clinic.
Are they doing the right thing?
Look at that.
The best thing to do is look attheir Instagram.
Kate Coomber (33:15):
Yeah, because how does a consumer know what the
right thing is?
Bek Woodbine (33:17):
Because if they're not following the law, if
they're not following the TGArules and they've got before and
afters and a whole heap ofstuff on their Instagram- or
they're showing them injecting.
Kate Coomber (33:26):
Then people won't even know that that's not
allowed.
Bek Woodbine (33:30):
So you've got to do your research.
You've got to do your research,but they should look for the
before and after.
Sam Miklos (33:34):
Photos are no longer allowed.
No.
Bek Woodbine (33:36):
And you're not allowed to use the words
injecting any toxin like Botoxor Dysport or those sort of
words.
There's just so much you can'tsay or do, so I think anyone
worth their pinch of salt hasremoved all of that.
And yet in my podcast Iinterviewed the guys from
(33:59):
Operation Redress and they'revery big advocates for this
space for the consumer and theyare doing up an AI app that will
just go through and have a lookat websites, look at social
media, and it flags how manyerrors you have or things you
haven't changed.
(34:19):
He said.
Michael said to me do you mindif I have a look at your website
?
Now?
I had gone through everything.
I still had 36 mistakes on mywebsite because in the back end
and I didn't even know about theback end.
Sam Miklos (34:30):
Yeah, the back end I was going to say, looking at
the outward facing I had no idea.
Bek Woodbine (34:35):
So then we had to get in touch with our webmaster
and get him to take that off,because he'd still left that on
for the SEO.
Sam Miklos (34:41):
Yes.
Bek Woodbine (34:42):
I had no idea.
I was like no, I've removedeverything.
And he was going well, you'vegot 36.
He said most people havethousands.
Kate Coomber (34:49):
Yeah, wow.
Sam Miklos (34:51):
I've got so many questions.
Sorry no mine was off, so goahead Okay.
So, Bec, what are you mostproud of in all the things that
you've done and where you aretoday?
Bek Woodbine (35:04):
My family, my two kids and my husband, so they've
turned out to be really goodpeople.
Yeah, don't know why.
Sam Miklos (35:16):
What have you done?
What have you done?
Tell us, because we all heardPaul right.
Bek Woodbine (35:22):
Both the kids were involved in high-level sport so
that kept them busy.
And you know, I also wasn't oneof those parents that the kids
had to get all A's, all thatsort of stuff.
As long as I saw A for effort,I was fine.
They weren't allowed to sleepwith their phones.
(35:44):
They weren't allowed to taketheir phones into their rooms
because social media and allthat was just starting to take
off and there was a bit of youknow, there was pushback with
that and I just said to the kidsthat's fine, you pay for your
own phones, you can keep them inyour rooms, but while I'm
paying for them, they're mine todo with as I please.
(36:09):
So you know that was really goodand my husband is divine and
very supportive.
We did have a marriagebreakdown for about six months
and did that coincide with yourburnout period?
Yeah, and I just stoppeddrinking and there was so much
(36:30):
was going on.
But he was just amazing and itwasn't because of other people
or anything like that, it wasjust I was really unhappy.
Yeah, and how can?
Kate Coomber (36:41):
you give to someone else when you're trying
so hard to help yourself.
Bek Woodbine (36:43):
Yeah, and Claire had gone away and Jake was
finishing up.
I'd finished my nursepractitioner, so I just was lost
.
Sam Miklos (36:49):
Yeah, talk to us about that, because you
mentioned earlier about you'vegiven up alcohol, and that's a
journey so many people areexploring at the minute and
they're talking about it, but Ifeel like it's so hard for
people to actually give upbecause our culture is let's go
for a drink, let's go forknock-off drinks.
We go to restaurants and noweverything is paired with wines
and even though there's somegreat non-alcoholic options, it
(37:12):
seems tough.
So what was the prompter foryou and how's that journey been?
Bek Woodbine (37:17):
The journey is easier now but, it was very hard
in the first instance.
I knew it was becomingproblematic and I went and saw a
GP and was shamed by her.
And I went and saw a GP and wasshamed by her.
And I remember going out andsitting in the car and ringing a
(37:38):
friend of mine whose husband'sa psychiatrist, and I said to
her, would he see me?
And I knew that would be theend of that friendship because,
you know, I had to be veryrespectful of the fact that he
would now be my clinician.
He got me in within a couple ofdays and started me on a
(38:01):
medication called Camprel, but Idon't know if it was the
medication or I'd made thatdecision and then also had that
support that literally I neverhad a drink again and I haven't.
Now It'll be six years,beginning of next year.
So I think support makes a bigdifference.
(38:22):
I also, you know, I had tried AA.
I hated it.
I just couldn't stand nottouching anybody and someone
would be telling their story andreally distressed and the rules
are you can't touch anyonebecause you don't know what sort
of trauma they've had.
So I joined a group calledSmart Recovery Australia and I
(38:45):
could do it online and I couldbe anonymous.
And I realized going on to thatthat I was really lucky I was.
And I think if I had kept onthe trajectory that I was really
lucky I was, and I think if Ihad have kept on the trajectory
that I was on, I would have beenin the situation some of those
people were in, you know, beingcourt ordered or drink driving
(39:05):
or something like that.
But it really opened my eyes upto the struggle people are
having with the ability to getalcohol with no stop in between.
You know, during COVID, youknow it was classed as an
essential service, I meanseriously, I just have to say it
(39:28):
what the fuck?
And domestic violence wentthrough the roof during COVID
Alcohol sales went through theroof.
During COVID Alcohol sales wentthrough the roof and there were
women on there that had kids atschool and would just call up
and it would be deliveredstraight away to them.
Kate Coomber (39:48):
And working from home and you know Huge issues.
Bek Woodbine (39:52):
And you know people go.
Well, aren't you strong enough?
It's not that it's veryinsidious drinking and you feel
like you can cope and you'redoing okay until you can't.
It's like gambling, you know,and our culture is that if you
(40:13):
don't drink, there's somethingwrong with you.
And I have been told that.
Sam Miklos (40:16):
Yeah, have been told that, yeah, have you found that
difficult?
Like, have you lost friends?
Have you found it difficultgoing to functions At first?
I did.
I don't now.
Bek Woodbine (40:28):
But you know, just this weekend I struggled going
to an event because everyone wasdrinking, everyone was pairing
wine with food and I had to keepasking for my drink to get
filled up with sparkling water,you know, and it was in a
tumbler, whereas you know theycould have said, oh, let's get
you a wine glass and put somesparkling water in that for you,
(40:48):
you know perfect.
I love now that there's a lot ofplaces that do great mocktails
or see the states do it reallywell.
There's usually a whole page ofmocktail, or they call them
virgin cocktails, and just notdrinking is the norm over there.
People, if you don't drink,it's no big deal.
You don't drink here.
(41:09):
I had some person tell me oncethat you know he doesn't trust
anyone that doesn't drink.
I've had another guy.
We were at a Melbourne Cupfunction and offered to buy.
He sort of worked with thisgroup that you know.
His exact words were oh God,aren't you fucking boring?
Sam Miklos (41:28):
Oh, wow, and.
Bek Woodbine (41:33):
I left fairly quickly after that, or when I go
into events, and I just foundthis recently, I went into an
event and all they had was wine,champagne and beer at the front
entrance.
Sam Miklos (41:48):
Yeah.
Bek Woodbine (41:49):
It's not okay.
It's not okay anymore.
You've got to be able.
People have got to cater forpeople that are non-drinkers,
because that younger generationare not drinking.
Kate Coomber (42:00):
That's what I was going to say.
We notice here, you know, theyounger people coming through.
It's just a choice they'remaking.
Bek Woodbine (42:07):
It's such a great choice because, as we, go into
menopause and perimenopause?
What?
Alcohol does to our bodies, aswomen in particular, is
horrendous, and the more youdrink they now know it's linked
to alzheimer's, it's linked todementia, it's linked to poor
bone health.
Kate Coomber (42:24):
Anxiety is a huge thing for menopausal women and
it exacerbates all of that, youknow it's disappointing to hear
that you felt shamed by the gpwhen you tried to get help.
Yeah, and talking earlier aboutpeople bringing people down
within the healthcare sector andnot supporting success and just
(42:44):
not supporting each other, whatdo you think has to shift to
really create that happierhealthcare workforce in this
country?
What is one thing that we coulddo?
Bek Woodbine (42:57):
Support each other .
Education is paramount.
Education around self-care isparamount.
It's okay to say no.
I recently had significant backissues and I had to, and most
people wouldn't even know aboutthis.
(43:17):
I ended up having to find myown specialist because my GP
original GP didn't believe thatI was having falls because of
the major issues with my back.
I had a bit of foot drop.
I'd been to a pain specialistand she told me I was making it
up and drug seeking.
Went to emergency at St Andrewsbecause after the cyclone here
(43:40):
I moved some things and my backwas really bad, went in asking
for an MRI and he just treatedme horrifically and it was at
that point.
I then reached out tocolleagues and said to them you
know who do I see and you know Iwas able to get in and see them
, but most people don't havethose contacts.
(44:01):
So if I got treated that way asa health professional, what hope
do the general public have?
Or are the nurses that don'tknow, or haven't been around for
as long as I have been?
I mean and you hear this allthe time this gaslighting around
medicine?
I don't know what the answer is.
I think we need and you hearthis all the time, this
gaslighting around medicine.
I don't know what the answer is.
I think we need to support ouryoung people.
We need to encourage them tostay.
(44:21):
We need to let them know thatnursing isn't glamorous.
However, there are some amazingjob opportunities in nursing.
There's so many differentpathways, you can take.
Kate Coomber (44:31):
If one thing isn't for you, there still might be
something within nursing.
Do they talk?
Sam Miklos (44:36):
about, though, like how do you define self-care for
healthcare professionals whenthey're doing shift work?
They're doing back-to-back.
Bek Woodbine (44:49):
Is there a piece that we actually need to define
it?
I think that limiting thenumber of patients you're
looking after, having goodpatient-nurse ratios on wards,
is very important.
If a nurse can't work or stayback and she says no, respect
that usually there's a prettygood reason why someone can't
stay back.
Don't keep going to the samepeople that always say yes
(45:14):
because you'll end up burningthem out.
Always say yes because you'llend up burning them out.
We need to make sure thatthey're.
You know that as colleagues.
If you notice in someone thatsomeone's getting burnt out,
they've maybe made a couple ofmistakes.
They're coming to work a bitdusty, you know.
Instead of turning into thisbig drama, take them aside and
(45:37):
have a chat with them.
Kate Coomber (45:38):
Are you okay, are you?
Bek Woodbine (45:40):
okay, straight away.
You flagged with them thatsomeone's watching them, that
they know something's amiss, soand then, if someone does tell
you something, keep it aconfidence.
You know unless it's amandatory notification.
But and if you're a leader andsomeone talks to you, I've heard
(46:06):
so many horror stories aboutnurses going into their leaders
to talk about things and thenthat person has gone out and
spoken about it with otherpeople.
Kate Coomber (46:10):
That's a no-no To them.
That brings fear of notspeaking up.
Bek Woodbine (46:14):
And they won't yeah.
To them that brings fear of notspeaking up and they won't.
We have to support each other,you know.
Hold someone's space with themif they need you to Ask them if
they want help.
That's a big thing.
Ask Are you okay?
How can I help you?
Do you want help?
They might say no.
Sam Miklos (46:33):
Yeah.
Bek Woodbine (46:34):
They might be going through a marriage breakup
, their kid might be unwell,their dog could be sick for the
day, like, unless you ask, youwill never know.
So look after your colleaguesyou know be.
Collegial doctors actually dothis very well, nurses not so
much do you think it's becauseit's a largely female profession
(46:54):
?
I think yes, but I also thinkhistorically, nurses have been
notoriously awful to each otherand I have seen it time and time
and time again when I was inthe hospital, when I was in the
theatres.
(47:14):
I mean, I learnt very early onin the operating theatres to be
friends with everybody, just laylow, just be free, and I've
done that in the aesthetic space.
I've just kept to myself.
Kate Coomber (47:25):
It's interesting, isn't it, when you're in this
caring profession of caring forothers but not caring for one
another.
It sort of doesn't make sense.
Bek Woodbine (47:35):
The best wards I ever worked in had amazing
leaders and I can tell you offthe bat, when I trained it was
CC3 or CC4, which was diabetes,and I think her name was Beth
and she was standing in as CNC.
She was amazing and I loved her.
(47:55):
And then the other one was M6,which was infectious diseases,
and the ward was run by aregistered nurse called Dolly.
Sam Miklos (48:02):
What made those two so special?
Bek Woodbine (48:04):
They cared, they cared about their staff and they
cared about their patients andthey took the time to explain
things.
So I had an and I've spokenabout this on my podcast where a
daughter was just being a realcow to me and I was very young,
very stupid nurse, you know,very naive.
I was what?
17 at the time, 16, 17.
(48:25):
And I found her really rude andawful to me and I was just
doing the best I could.
And I can remember walking outof that ward or that room and
the CNC was there and I remembersaying to her I just can't make
this woman happy, I just don'tknow what I'm doing wrong.
And this woman came outprobably to complain about me, I
(48:48):
don't know and I remember shewalked down and opened her arms
up to that woman and that womanlaid a head on her shoulder and
cried that's all she needed.
Yeah, she was under stress.
Kate Coomber (48:58):
She was under stress.
Bek Woodbine (48:59):
She didn't need a 17-year-old trying to tell her
what to do.
I had no life skills, but myCNC did and I had enough insight
to watch that interaction to gookay.
I was way over my head here.
I was trying to be something.
I wasn't.
And I learnt a lot from thatone interaction because she was
(49:22):
such a remarkable leader,remarkable human you know, she
could read patients and familiesand yeah, it's funny, the
little interactions like thatthat I learnt a lot.
Dolly, big on education, nevertreated anyone like a fool.
If you didn't know she'd go,okay, let's get you some
education in that area.
(49:43):
But she was strict.
You know she was strict and weall had guidelines and we knew
what our rules were and you justdidn't break them because you
didn't want to let her down.
Yeah.
Kate Coomber (49:53):
But then unclear is unkind.
To know where you stand and toknow what you have to do and
have clarity around your rolemakes everyone perform better.
Bek Woodbine (50:01):
Oh, she, just.
They were two leaders thatreally stood out for me.
And yet my first ward at PA, ohmy God, I just have the worst
memories and nightmares, becausethe CNC was awful to us all.
The RNs didn't want to be there.
They were awful to all of us.
Out of all the new students,there was two of us that went on
(50:21):
to do nursing.
Sam Miklos (50:22):
Wow.
Bek Woodbine (50:23):
Everyone else left after six weeks Like a sink or
swim.
Kate Coomber (50:26):
Absolutely.
Bek Woodbine (50:28):
So when you think about nursing that way, I mean,
yeah, it was a hard.
I just don't think I thinkuniversity is a wonderful way,
do I think it could be better?
Absolutely.
But I don't think anyone shouldbe my age, where I was.
Just, I was 16, just turning 17, and throwing out bodies you
know, cleaning old men up.
Yeah, I just I look back now,and no wonder so many nurses
(50:52):
left.
There's just this hugeattrition rate doing it through
the hospitals that you don'thear about, but it happened yeah
.
Kate Coomber (51:01):
Thank you, Bec.
Cmr are making a donation to acharity of your choice with this
episode.
Where are we donating thatmoney to?
I'd like it to go to FAIR.
Bek Woodbine (51:10):
Well, I think it's FAIR Australia, which is all
around alcohol research, whichis all around alcohol research,
fetal alcohol syndrome research,stopping or research around
cessation of advertising and theability to get alcohol so
quickly.
So, yeah, it's close to myheart.
I think it's a wonderfulorganisation.
(51:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
Sam Miklos (51:32):
Thank you so much.
Bec, you're welcome.
It's been an absolute pleasureto have you here today, and
we've covered a lot of topics.
Kate Coomber (51:39):
We've gone all over yeah.
Sam Miklos (51:41):
But we're so grateful for our time with you
today.
Bek Woodbine (51:44):
You are more than welcome and thank you so much
for asking me.
It's been a delight to be onthe other side of the microphone
.
Kate Coomber (51:49):
Yeah, stay tuned for part two of this
conversation coming soon.
We Part two of thisconversation coming soon.
We acknowledge the traditionalcustodians of the land of which
we meet who for centuries haveshared ancient methods of
healing and cared for theircommunities.
We pay our respects to elders,past and present.
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