September 30, 2025 • 45 mins
What happens when the path you’ve worked so hard for starts to wear you down? In this honest episode, UK-trained doctor and content creator. Dr Chris G, opens up about burnout, sabbaticals, and building a version of medicine that actually feels sustainable.
Dr Chris takes us from the intense pace of under-resourced NHS wards to new rhythms of practice in Australia, and the surprising clarity he found during two ten‑day silent meditation retreats. We talk rural placements, lifestyle shifts, and why success isn’t a title but something you can feel in your day-to-day. Along the way, Chris reflects on creating content as a form of expression, confronting the fear of being seen, and why visibility matters, especially for clinicians questioning the traditional path.
If you’re feeling stuck, curious about locum life, or searching for more balance in your healthcare career, this episode offers a hopeful, practical look at what’s possible.
More about Chris' Organisation of Choice, Against Malaria Foundation
Against Malaria Foundation help protect people from malaria. They fund anti-malaria nets, specifically long-lasting insecticidal nets (LLINs), and work with distribution partners to ensure they are used and their impact tracked and recorded.
Follow Chris on Instagram and Youtube.
It Takes Heart is hosted by cmr CEO Sam Miklos, alongside Head of Talent and Employer Branding, Kate Coomber.
We Care; Music by Waveney Yasso
Get to know cmr better!
Follow @ittakesheartpodcast on Instagram, @cmr | Cornerstone Medical Recruitment on Linked In, @cornerstonemedicalrec on TikTok and @CornerstoneMedicalRecruitment on Facebook.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sam (00:00):
From NHS burnout to locum life in Australia.
This episode is about what itreally means to take a break and
rebuild life on your own terms.
Chris (00:08):
We need to appreciate that everyone's definition of
success is personal.
I once did a locum where I wasworking alongside a consultant
who he said he had a verydifferent definition of success,
and he told me about hisreverse week, which was that he
worked two days and had fivedays off.
(00:29):
So he'd work two days as anemergency consultant, and then
five days he'd be hydrofoilingby the beach or whatever.
And that was his definition ofsuccess.
Kate (00:38):
Don't forget to follow and subscribe so you never miss an
episode.
And follow us on Instagram, ittakes heart for all the
behind-the-scenes fun.
Instrumental (00:46):
We care for the land and sea.
Sam (00:52):
Today's guest is Dr.
Chris G, a UK trained doctor,content creator, and YouTuber
who took a sabbatical, picked upa camera, and started asking
some big questions like whathappens when the job you've
worked your whole life forstarts making you miserable?
Chris's journey has resonatedwith thousands, not because it's
perfect, but because it'shonest.
Welcome, Chris, to It TakesHeart.
Chris (01:13):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's an honour.
Thank you for having letting meshare my story and all the
other health professionals youlet share their story as well.
Sam (01:21):
And are we calling you Dr.
Chris G or Chris?
Chris (01:24):
Just Chris.
Chris?
Sam (01:25):
All right, just in case, because I'm like you're a you're
a sensation online.
We don't want to get thebranding wrong.
Chris (01:31):
Chris is absolutely fine.
Kate (01:33):
So we'd love to go back.
Chris (01:35):
Yeah.
Kate (01:36):
How what what made you become a doctor?
Chris (01:39):
So yeah, we touched on this earlier.
So my both my parents arepharmacists.
So hospital pharmacists aswell.
And it was always just in myhead that, oh yeah, we're gonna
I'm gonna do somethinghealthcare related, something in
the hospital.
And then when I went got tosort of unit choosing my
(02:00):
university degree, they werevery much of the mindset you
need to choose a degree whichhas a job at the end of it.
So like medicine, law,engineering.
So that already kind of likenarrowed my thing.
And I wasn't I didn't like holdit against them or anything for
that.
Um and then also at the sametime I really liked scrubs as a
(02:23):
15, 16-year-old.
TV showing that the team, notthat you weren't walking around
dressed in your scrubs.
Yeah, I did also like scrubs.
It was huge.
Like that's a big part of popculture.
And I think at that age you'relike so impressionable.
Even like now, I th I feel likeI'm a very impressionable
person.
Yes.
Um so I just thought, well, Ihave to choose something with a
job at the end of it.
I have to go down one of thesepaths.
(02:46):
Why not just do this?
It seems fun.
Doctors are funny, they havelike fun relationships.
So I had a very warped view ofwhat medicine actually was.
I don't actually know.
Because I'm definitely I Idefinitely daydreamed a lot,
like JD.
So like just kind of like lostin my own head a lot.
I'd probably say JD.
(03:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sam (03:10):
And so you went when you got to medicine, you were like
So you went into the NHS?
Chris (03:15):
Yeah, yeah.
So five years of med school,then straight so that was
straight off to high school,because you don't need to be um
postgrad in the UK.
And then That's very young.
Yeah, like at 18, just likechucked in.
And then yeah.
Sam (03:31):
So you can explain that though.
Like you can be working in theNHS straight out of high school.
Chris (03:36):
Uh so no, so it's like straight out of high school you
go to medical school.
Right.
So you didn't do an undergrad.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, so at 18 But in mymedical school we did also do
like clinical placements veryearly.
So I think even from secondyear we were on the wards as
medical students.
So like 19-year-olds and stuff.
You're not technically working,but you're kind of helping out
(03:58):
here and there and and of thatstuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sam (04:02):
And so what was it like?
What's the NHS like?
I mean you haven't been therefor a couple of years, but
compared to more than a couple,yeah.
Yeah, like what was it likeworking in the NHS?
Chris (04:11):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's so the the more distance,like more time-wise that passes
between me working in it andnow, the harder it is to
actually remember.
But all I can describe is likethe feeling that I would have
every single day waking up,which was I guess just anxiety,
(04:32):
like low mood.
And it's because I always feltout of my depth, I always felt
like there wasn't enough supportaround me.
Senior support or just yeah, Iguess senior support, especially
like out of hour shifts.
Um you'd have you'd have peopleyou could call, but there was
(04:53):
kind of like a uh unwritten rulewhich is like only like really
serious stuff.
If those little awkward thingswhat you're not sure about,
you're like, oh should I call?
Yeah.
Kate (05:05):
And when you're a couple of years out, like I imagine a
lot of life experience countswhen you're becoming a doctor
and having seen X number ofpatients in the past and being
able to say I've I've seen thisbefore, whereas if you haven't,
to make those decisions mustfeel really stressful.
Chris (05:21):
Exactly, yeah.
And you've probably heard likethe UK doctors have just like
finished a another five-daystrike.
I think also when you compareyour your life to your friends
who are like they went to thesame high school as you, for
example, but they're they saidthey're working in the city in
finance or and they're liketheir lives seem a lot better
(05:42):
because they earn a lot moremoney.
And I know it sounds bad, butthat does help when you can pay
your rent and do your groceries.
Um so I'm very behind like thethe doctor strikes because it I
don't think they get paid enoughfor for what they do.
Sam (06:00):
And is that the main reason if someone's going, well, why
are they striking?
Is that the main reason?
Is it for pay?
Chris (06:06):
I think pay helps, but to be honest, it's like the whole
system is asking too much fromthem.
Yeah.
Um like their lives my my lifewas very difficult as a as a
junior doctor.
Just the the stress level, theworking hours, not being able to
have a life outside ofmedicine.
Kate (06:28):
And like the caseload when you're there.
Chris (06:30):
The caseload, yeah.
So just for example, I rememberso this was F2, so like second
year out of medical school.
We do like medical um on calland over the weekends our vowers
was always terrible.
But over the weekends, it wasme, another F2, and a registrar
(06:52):
and like a nurse practitionercovering 400 patients.
And these weren't like peoplewith like coughs and colds,
these were sick medicalinpatients, like a lot of them
critically ill.
And if your registrar is doingso your registrar's like just a
bit senior than you, if he'sbusy doing recesses on multiple
patients, like you're not gonnabe able to ask him any questions
(07:13):
or her any questions.
You're gonna have to s do thesethings on your own.
And uh you have obviously youhave to prioritize the critical
things, but then you have thislike list of uh 50 other things
that you need to do.
You've got your bleep going offall day.
And factor in like if you ifyou're doing that overnight,
you're sleep deprived and uh itjust it's not a good way to
(07:35):
live.
Like it just really takes itstoll.
And uh when you're given whenyou're given like a workload
that's not humanly possible todo and you can't do it, you feel
like you're not good enough asa person, you're not good enough
as a doctor.
And I think that has a lot ofrepercussions with your your
mental health as well.
Sam (07:54):
So d you hit a point where you were like, enough.
What was that point?
What was there sounds like itwas sort of building, building,
was there one point?
Chris (08:06):
I'd say it would be more of a gradual thing.
Even I guess throughout medicalschool, I wasn't 100% sure
because I'd see like my moresenior colleagues at the time
they were just like first-yeardoctors.
I'd see them and be like, oh,I'm not sure I actually want
their life.
They don't seem very happy.
Kate (08:22):
And that's a difficult place to be in itself if you're
continuing your studies andyou're pushing and putting
everything into this andsacrificing a lot of social life
and other things to do thisthing that you want to do.
Yeah.
Sam (08:33):
And then not look up to those really senior people that
are doing it.
Chris (08:36):
Yeah, yeah.
Like they always say you shouldsee look at the person five
years ahead of you on the samepath.
Do you want to do what they'redoing?
And a lot of the time itwasn't.
Like when I was back in theNHS, I I didn't see anyone that
actually genuinely inspired me.
And it didn't excite me to likerecreate their life in my own.
Yeah.
Sam (08:55):
That's really sad, isn't it?
Chris (08:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Sam (08:58):
So one day you went enough.
Chris (09:01):
Yeah, so there's quite a natural break in the UK between
so after your foundation years,so the first two years after
medical school are called yourfoundation years.
And most people will choose atraining pathway at that point.
But it's getting very commonnow that people will take a
break after that.
I think it's more common thanpe that people take a break than
(09:24):
don't, whether that's to travelor to like study something else
or just do something completelydifferent from it.
Yeah.
Like for for example, mysister, she she's also a doctor,
um, but she just became a yogainstructor for like a year or
two, even maybe.
Yeah.
And then started her training.
Kate (09:42):
So it's almost like you're not having the gas here when
you leave high school.
Yeah.
It's like you sort of have itthere.
Chris (09:46):
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
And I think people arerealizing they really need it
after those first couple yearsworking in the NHS and being
like really under the pump forfor that long.
Most most doctors feel likethey need it and are recognising
that they need it as well.
Sam (10:03):
And so then you took that that break.
Chris (10:06):
Yeah.
Sam (10:07):
Where did you go?
How did you get from beingburnt out to in Australia
low-caming?
Like what did that space looklike?
Kate (10:13):
And was it a break like I'm not going back?
Or was it a couple of them?
Was it like to read?
I've actually had multiplebreaks now.
Chris (10:21):
I've had so that first break, so it was six months
after foundation year two.
And that was like, I think I'mdone with medicine.
I don't want to go back to theNHS.
It was very like cliche, likemy hair was like down to here.
Yeah.
Kate (10:36):
And what year are we talking about?
Chris (10:38):
Uh this would be 2019.
Right.
Kate (10:40):
So just before COVID.
Yes, just before COVID.
Chris (10:43):
Yeah.
So six months, long-hairedChris with a backpack, traveling
Southeast Asia, findinghimself.
Very cliche.
Very cliche.
But it was like honestly thebest thing that I ever did.
Sam (10:54):
Is this when you did like the 10 days meditating in
silence?
Chris (10:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I've actually done thattwice now.
Sam (11:01):
Yeah, oh wow, you've gone back for more.
Chris (11:03):
Yeah, I went back for normal.
Sam (11:04):
I don't know.
Tell me about that experience,was it?
Chris (11:07):
Oh, it's uh probably one of the hardest things you can
put yourself through.
Sam (11:12):
Because I think I heard that you were like it got hard.
Like by day ten, you were like,I'm good, but Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Chris (11:18):
Like but it's also one of the most fascinating
experiences you can have aswell.
Like being able to observe yourown mind for that long.
Like when have you ever beendisconnected from society or
anything for different things?
Sam (11:31):
I struggle to meditate.
Ten days.
Chris (11:36):
Yeah, ten hours per day of meditation.
So seated cross-legged on thefloor and just focusing on your
breath initially and thenscanning your body.
And you have like some guidanceand stuff, and you get meal
breaks like breakfast and lunch.
But yeah, that's where wereyou?
Uh first one was in Myanmar.
That's actually where itoriginated from, the this
(11:59):
particular Vipassana one that uhwe do.
And then the second one waswith my fiance last year in
Jakarta in Indonesia.
Sam (12:08):
So you did first six months, long hair, backpacking,
Southeast Asia.
Then what happened?
Chris (12:15):
And then I came back to the UK and I started locuming a
bit in the UK, but it was I wasjust locuming in the hospital
that I worked at for F2.
So I wasn't really liketravelling around or anything.
It's just like, oh, they need adoctor, I'll just work that I
already know the system, etc.
And then I was like, I actuallydon't know what I'm doing with
my life right now, because Idon't know what specialty I want
(12:36):
to do.
Like, I guess I should pickone, or if I should just leave
and do something else, but Ican't because I've been studying
for so long.
I've got to throw it away.
That's such a tough thing,isn't it?
Sam (12:45):
When you put all those years in, and then you've got in
the back of your mind, I've gotto come out with a job as well.
Like I think we're also in thatera where we all had to go and
study something that you thenhad a job, and then to feel
like, oh, I don't know if thisis my thing.
Kate (12:57):
And I think as you get older you might look back and
go, well, that was just amoment.
But at the time, that's allyou've had.
So it feels like the biggestmoment ever.
Yes, exactly.
Chris (13:06):
Exactly.
So yeah, and then I guess itwas by chance I had one UK
doctor friend who went to thesame med school as me.
He actually just got hiscitizenship on Monday.
Just gone.
Um but he had been here forabout a year and he was like,
dude, you have to come toAustralia.
It's the best thing ever.
Kate (13:25):
And you hadn't been out?
Chris (13:26):
I hadn't been.
I'd come here for like a familyholiday to Cairns, like when I
was fifteen or something likethat.
And I was like, well, I'venothing else going on, so yeah,
I'll give it a crack.
And he got me a job at one ofthe emergencies in Brisbane.
Um and I worked there for ayear, and then I stayed there
for another year to get my likeGP prerequisites.
(13:47):
And then obviously you'resurrounded by a lot of other UK
doctors who are doing a verysimilar thing, and they
introduced me to like the wholelocum stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kate (13:58):
Because actually I remember seeing when you um were
sharing when you got you werelooking to do GP, is that right?
Yes, yeah.
Yeah.
Chris (14:07):
Still am.
Kate (14:08):
Still that's still.
But it's really challenging.
And I thought that was reallyinteresting when I saw that
video.
Yeah, not not realizing justhow competitive is a very good
idea.
Chris (14:16):
Yeah, it's getting a lot more competitive.
Um so that first intake thisyear for 2026 start was like uh
really oversubscribed andSoutheast Queensland, rural
Southeast Queensland, was themost popular region in the
country.
Um and obviously I that was myfirst choice.
I didn't actually put any otherpreferences because I really
(14:38):
did want to stay around here.
Uh so I didn't get a place.
But they have just uh opened upapplications for like second
intake just yesterday.
So I'm reapplying.
I've extended my um trainingpreferences to like was it North
Coast, New South Wales?
Yep.
Sam (14:57):
So maybe we can like build your profile and then be like,
if you let Chris in, we could dosome great profiling on the
program, you know,opportunities.
Yeah, yeah.
So have you locumed then allyour time has been out here
doing various locums?
Chris (15:12):
Um I have, yes, I worked two years full-time essentially
Brisbane, and then I've justbeen doing locuming around New
South Wales, uh, Queensland,Tasmania.
Yeah.
Kate (15:24):
And what have you noticed?
Like, what's the big biggestdifference between working in
Australia compared to the NHS?
Yeah.
Like are you enjoying medicineagain?
Chris (15:33):
Yes, yeah, definitely.
Like as as soon as I came over,even though I was working like
a full-time schedule, I justfelt a lot better in general.
Like my my mood was better.
I think part like a huge partis the weather.
Like it's it sounds clicheagain, but it's like if it's
sunny every day, it's a loteasier to go to work than when
like And not dark.
Kate (15:54):
And dark, yeah.
Chris (15:55):
Like Yeah, when you're not cold and miserable.
Uh I think I definitely hadlike an element of um SAD,
seasonal affected disorder forsure.
So that helped.
And then I just felt a lot moresupported.
Like I did a whole year ofemergency um at the Martha
Hospital in Brisbane.
And there's just always asenior there.
(16:16):
Like every single patient Isaw, I can run it by someone.
Kate (16:20):
Um if you look at the ratios, if you think about that
small team you had doing uhbeing responsible for that 400
patient load, how does thatcompare in a hospital like that?
Chris (16:29):
Yeah, yeah.
So I kind of I guess one thingthat I haven't experienced is
being like, for example, oncall.
Um because I I somehow managedto like slip around that.
So I actually probably wouldn'tbe able to compare it directly.
Speaker 01 (16:45):
Yeah.
Chris (16:46):
Um the the style of job that I was doing was very
different.
So like in emergency, you'rejust seeing one patient after
the other.
Whereas when I was doing theon-calls in the UK, that's when
we had that like high patientload.
I've heard it can be quite badhere as well.
So I'm not gonna do that.
Kate (17:03):
It depends obviously health service to health service
and where you're located andyou know all of those factors.
Sam (17:08):
Do you think um from the time that you've had in
Australia so far, had you umstudied medicine out here and
gone in, you know, in thosejunior years, do you think you
would have been equally as burntout?
It's a good question.
Chris (17:23):
Yeah, yeah.
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
From I feel like interns are alot more supported here, like
they're a lot more protectedjust from speaking to people and
just my experience.
It's but it's really hard totell, isn't it?
Sam (17:40):
Like when you look at the um, you know, the doctor's five
years ahead of you now.
Chris (17:44):
Yeah.
Sam (17:45):
Are you inspired by what you see out in Australia?
Yeah.
Because of the lifestyle that'sgonna be a household.
Chris (17:53):
So one of the things that actually got me to kind of
commit to staying was I wasworking in the martyr as well
with a consultant, emergencyconsultant, probably only like
maybe four or five years olderthan me.
He'd just qualified asconsultant.
And he this at thisconversation actually made me
want to stay in Australia.
(18:13):
He basically said he wasearning three times as much as
his um consultant friends backhome who were also working in an
emergency.
And in my head, I was like,well, if if that's the case, I
could actually work a third ofthe amount and like be on the
same wage as I would if I wentback home, which would free up
like two-thirds of my year.
Sam (18:34):
So imagine what you could do with you saying low-coming
too can be like a reverseholiday.
Like you can you can do allthese other things.
Chris (18:41):
Exactly, yeah, yeah.
I think coming here gave memore of my life back outside of
medicine.
Not that I I dislike medicineor any anything.
I just like a lot of aspects oflife and I don't like that.
Kate (18:53):
And being able to set boundaries for yourself to to
ensure that you can have thatbalance.
Chris (18:59):
So there's a the going whereas in in the UK it was like
you're a doctor and it feltlike I wasn't anything else.
I just kind of in medicine, Iwas burning out and like I
wasn't doing it, all these otherthings I wanted to try, like
content creation or tr trainingor anything like that.
Sam (19:15):
Yeah.
So there's loads of greatthings about being out in
Australia and and working in thesystem out here, but there's
also you know all of our creepycrawlies and we've seen on your
videos you've got Ron, the headof HR, the bird, there's m Dr.
Hopkins, the kangaroo,cinematic universe.
This is it.
You've even had um The Gardenercame in and did some ex-radies
(19:37):
at one point.
Chris (19:38):
Like That was actually true, that's it.
That was true.
Sam (19:41):
Right, so we've got to minute.
Yeah.
Um Let's keep it interesting.
I remember when we lived inLondon and people would be like,
God, out there there's bearsand there's can you ride
kangaroos to school.
Speaker 01 (19:51):
Yeah.
Sam (19:52):
Something's gonna kill you.
Yeah.
All the creepy crawlies.
Have you found any of thosethings confronting?
And what are the wildest thingsyou've seen on your travels out
here?
Chris (20:00):
Like, I feel like those things are so exaggerated by the
rest of the world.
Like all these creepy crawlies.
It's almost become like a memein itself.
Like Australia has like animalsthat will kill you and stuff.
I'm sure there are, but Ihaven't actually seen even going
to like these rural places,I've never felt like threatened
by an animal.
They're all very cute andapproachable.
(20:21):
Yeah.
Like Dr.
Hopkins and and Ron.
Ron's a bit annoying.
He's a curly, so yeah.
HR.
And noisy.
Yeah, very noisy.
Sam (20:30):
Um tell us about the gardener doing the x-rays.
Chris (20:33):
Yeah, that blew my mind.
So um basically when I this wasactually very recently in rural
Queensland.
I won't say exactly where itwas, but I in my first week I
was working in one smallhospital and I was told that the
nurses were doing x-rays, whichI was like, oh, that's really
cool.
So they just do an extracourse, which allows them to um
(20:56):
be an x-ray operator.
Doctors can do it too, butthere's like a weird loophole
that doctors aren't allowed todo it and then they can't order
the x-ray and then do it, whichis very strange.
So there's almost no point inthe in the doctors learning.
Yeah, referral process.
Yeah, it has to be a referral,yeah.
So the nurses were doing it,and I was like, wow, that's
(21:16):
awesome.
So I move and then I move tothe next hospital in the next
week.
And I find out that thegardener is is doing the x-rays
because he's done this sameextra course.
Kate (21:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Finding balance.
Chris (21:29):
Like he he literally mows the lawns and he comes in and
then he does the x-rays.
Only in Australia, right?
Only in Australia.
Yeah, yeah.
Sam (21:37):
But did you see as well like the role of the nurse
practitioner in Australia?
Did you think is their scope ofpractice much broader than
you're used to in the UK?
Chris (21:46):
Um Have I seen it?
I haven't seen a huge amount ofnurse practitioners actually.
I but just no normal nurses,like a huge like especially
rural, they've got like a hugescope of practice.
I often joke like they'rebasically the consultants out
there.
Yeah.
And in fact, I I because I wascomplaining, I went to at this
last one, I wasn't supported,even though I picked up a locum,
(22:08):
which was like I was promisedto be working alongside an SMO.
They didn't roster on an SMO.
There was like some issues.
Uh so I spent like three out offive days just like me running
the emergency uh and the ward asa as a registrar.
And I was complaining and madea few reels about it.
But then the nurses told methat they didn't even have a
doctor for six weeks.
So they were running the ED.
(22:30):
They were like doing all thedoctory stuff as nurses.
Kate (22:34):
Yes, they can.
Chris (22:35):
And I was like, I'll stop complaining now.
Yeah.
Kate (22:37):
And what are your friends back home?
Back in the UK.
What are they doing?
What do they think about that?
Like when they're watching allyour videos.
Sam (22:44):
Yeah.
Chris (22:44):
To be honest, I haven't this is quite recent me sharing
this like part of my life, thislike rural medicine stuff.
So um I'm yet to get muchfeedback from them.
I'm going back in November.
Okay.
So uh I'll see.
I'll ask them then.
Kate (22:58):
And I bet even I can only imagine the stress that they're
under even looking to you going,how do you have time to do all
this?
You know?
Like it's such a different lifethat you're living.
Yeah.
What do you think the otherbenefits of local rural work is?
Chris (23:13):
I think I prefer working like rural, I've realized.
But it's just so much like likeI've worked in busy EDs in the
city and I worked in like kindof busy EDs in rural.
But you just even a busy ruralED feels like way more
manageable.
It feel feels way morepersonal, like you're working in
(23:35):
a smaller team, everyone's likekind of having a laugh and a
bit more connected.
Whereas in these big metroones, you you you just become a
number, you're just like a cogand you're just like churning
through patients, you've gotpatients in the corridor.
One of my last shifts that Idid in the city, um, it was a
couple months ago, and I'vedecided it it will be my last
(23:58):
shift in the city because thewhole day I just saw patients in
the corridor.
Like I didn't see a singlepatient in a cubicle.
And I was like, this justreminds me of like ENHS.
I much prefer just having thatspace.
And and then you do you do geta bit of downtime and quiet time
between patients sometimes,which is like really nice.
(24:20):
I much prefer that kind ofslower pace.
And then occasionally you getsomething like a bit exciting or
or or whatever.
Yeah.
Sam (24:28):
Yeah.
So content creation.
Yeah.
Where when did that start?
Chris (24:33):
Like So I mentioned earlier how I was I'm quite
impressionable.
And I kind of grew up onYouTube, like just watching
YouTube as a kid.
I think maybe like early teensor something like that.
And I always wanted to be aYouTuber, but it was definitely
like a bit of a dark secret Ididn't tell anyone.
Kate (24:52):
And then my son shouts shouts that from the rooftops.
Sam (24:56):
Ask him what he wants to be a YouTuber.
I think probably now, likemany, many years back, like the
modern movie was many, but now,yeah, they start as kidnapping.
Chris (25:05):
Um But the problem was I also became a doctor, and then
going through med school, sworking in the NHS, I just kind
of buried that dream.
Just kind of kept it lockedaway as I was burning out in
medicine.
Sam (25:18):
Aaron Ross Powell Do you think also there was a little
part of that because it waslike, well, what's that as a
job?
Like if we think about yourparents and not to not your
parents, you know, disrespect,but it's like you know, trying
to g have a job at the end ofit, it seems just frivolous and
silly.
Chris (25:34):
A bit of a waste of time.
And that's so after thosefoundation years, I think I just
finished my travelling at thattime, my first six-month
travels, came across a YouTuber,doctor YouTuber called Ali
Abdal, if you've heard of him.
Probably one of the biggestdoctor YouTubers, well, he's an
ex-doctor YouTuber now.
And watching him justunapologetically make YouTube
(25:55):
videos, I was like, ah, I couldactually do this too.
He's a doctor, I'm a doctor.
We were very similar level,like he was doing his F2 as
well.
And it just gave me permissionto start, something that I'd
always wanted to do, butsecretly I thought I was like,
I'm not really sure if I cangive that a go.
Like it's not professional.
Sam (26:11):
Also comes back to that you can't be what you can't see.
Chris (26:14):
Yes, that's huge.
I really like that um thatquote as well.
Kate (26:17):
Like I really resonate with that.
And interesting that you'reworking in medicine with zero
inspiration of what you couldbe, but you've seen this other
person on social and that'sinspiring.
Yeah, yeah.
Like that's a problem, isn'tit?
That the the people in front ofyou.
Chris (26:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it was so cool just seeinghis journey, like how he was he
was still working full-time as adoctor at that point.
He was um doing his YouTubechannel, he was doing a podcast,
he was building a business atthe same time.
I actually it it did also blowmy mind how he was doing that.
Just comparing my F2 years.
I was like, I could have neverdone that.
(26:56):
Like, I don't know how hephysically.
Sam (26:58):
Have you ever found out how he did that?
Chris (27:00):
No, I would love to like speak to him one day.
Um but yeah.
Yeah, I think he's kind of goneoff the stratosphere in terms
of like how I like he's he'spretty famous now, I think, in
terms of like content creation.
Kate (27:13):
Is there anything that you don't or won't share online?
Chris (27:17):
Uh I d I draw the line of like, I guess, people around
me.
So like family, f friends,partner.
Like if they don't want to bein my videos, like that's 100% I
completely agree.
Like they shouldn't if theydon't want to be in it.
Um for me personally, no, I'mpretty open now.
Kate (27:40):
And I guess it was you mentioned there it was only
recently that you're doing thelocum life stuff.
So it was a lot of like thetravel and just say before then.
Chris (27:47):
Yeah, so when I was first inspired by Ali Abdel, I so
when I it was also just as Icame over to Australia.
Um Because you were inlockdown.
Did I see a video?
You were in lockdown, yeah.
So 2020, two weeks hotelquarantine, no windows open, no
fresh air, just me and my iPhone11 camera, and I was like,
(28:11):
well, if I don't do it now, I'mliterally never gonna do it.
Because much time.
Yeah.
So I'll just like okay, I'llstart making videos.
At the time I was really intolike calisthenics and fitness.
I was like, I'll just startwith the like fitness, because
that's what I wanted to talkabout.
So I started making like a fewof those videos.
And yeah, just that's that'swhere it all came from.
(28:31):
Just went from there.
Just went from there.
Sam (28:33):
You said though that it's like been the biggest personal
development journey.
Chris (28:38):
Yeah, yeah.
Sam (28:39):
Why?
Chris (28:40):
So it started off with like, yeah, me giving like
health and fitness tips, andthen with the travels, I was
kind of continuing that, butthen it got to a point where I
realised people really weren'tconnecting with that.
What they were connecting withwas just me sharing my own
story.
So I kind of lent into thatmore and realized I actually
(29:03):
enjoyed that more as well.
And you never run out of ideaswhen you're just talking about
your own life.
There's infinite ideas.
Uh whereas before the help forfitness stuff, you have to
really like research what you'resaying.
You don't want to say the wrongthings.
Kate (29:20):
Be an expert about something that you're not
trained in or what are you.
Chris (29:23):
And I think I actually really didn't like I liked and
still love making videos.
Um, so it didn't really matterwhat the content topic was
about.
I just wanted to create.
And in terms of so you askedabout it being the biggest
personal development journey.
So if I were to go back fiveyears and look at myself now and
(29:43):
be like, I can't believe thisis happening.
Like even just being here, likesitting to YouTube, sharing my
story.
Because I most people wouldhave considered me very like
introverted, doesn't reallyshare much about himself.
Chris is like the mysteriousone, we don't really know what's
going on in here.
Doing the content stuff justgave me a voice, like 'cause I
(30:04):
felt comfortable just you'reessentially on your own.
As a content creator, you'rejust on your own in a room
speaking to a camera.
And it was almost like ajournal, like I just also
describe it as like therapybecause I'm just venting to the
camera often.
Kate (30:19):
Does that feel hugely uncomfortable though?
I imagine when you starteddoing that, like it's a really
scary thing to be vulnerable,particularly if you are a bit
more introverted.
You've gone from zero to ahundred, right?
Like I'm introverted, I no oneknows what I'm thinking, but
here you go.
Here are all my thoughts.
Chris (30:37):
It was yeah, it was hard at first.
I guess at the start it waslike I wasn't sharing myself
because it was like health andfitness tips.
Yeah.
So that was fine.
It was still really scary justdoing that.
Kate (30:47):
I was gonna say that like did you have that fear of
judgment?
Chris (30:50):
Yes, yeah, yeah.
Kate (30:51):
And particularly friends.
I think sometimes when it's forstrangers, you're like, who
cares what they think?
But what are my peers and myfriends and my family gonna
think about this?
Chris (30:58):
Yeah.
So the hardest bit of contentcreation, it wasn't the tech, it
wasn't the editing, it wasn'tthe thumbnails.
It is the fear of being seen.
And not by random internetstrangers, but by people that
you know in real life.
What if my medical schoolfriends see this?
What if my consultant stumblesacross my YouTube channel and
brings up in the tea room?
That was like my biggest fear.
(31:19):
Not failing at YouTube and likenot getting any views, but
actually people seeing my stuff.
Which is weird because you'reputting yourself out there and
you do want to be seen, you dowant to get the views and stuff,
but at the same time you don'twant anyone to see it.
It's quite strange.
Um I think just with time ofdoing it over and over, I almost
(31:40):
I don't even think about thepeople watching it in a way.
Like it surprises me whenpeople say, Oh, I've watched all
your videos.
Sam (31:49):
You're like, really?
Chris (31:50):
Yeah, I'm like, oh, wow, okay, that's cool.
Sam (31:52):
You've got a lot of time when you're gonna be here.
Yeah.
Chris (31:54):
Because from my perspective, it's just me
talking to a camera and then Isee some numbers on a screen.
But actually I'm speaking tothousands, sometimes millions of
people.
Um and with time you just kindof get over it.
If you do it enough, yes, mymed school friends will see it.
Everywhere I locum now, peoplewill be like, I recognize you
from thingy.
(32:15):
And yes, I feel a bituncomfortable, but I think just
with time you get over it.
Sam (32:19):
But also that um those videos you shared too, again,
similar to the point of thispodcast, it's still it's also
shining a light on the work andthe experiences and just have
the human element of having abit of fun and what is it
actually like going and workingwhere you're the curler who is
the head of HR and all of thoseexperiences, but it also
inspires others.
Yes.
Which again, that can't be whatyou can't see for others and to
(32:41):
see this.
Speaker 01 (32:41):
Yeah.
Sam (32:42):
It just opens up so much more opportunity.
Yeah, yeah.
Did you know that this sort oflocum work existed?
If you look back.
Chris (32:48):
Oh, definitely not.
No.
Sam (32:49):
Because when you said you locumed in the UK, what's that
like compared to locoming at thesame time?
Chris (32:53):
Locuming.
It was just like, oh, thehospital I was already working
in, they need doctors.
I don't even know if it wascalled locoming.
It was just like, I'm justfilling in some like roster
gaps.
And yeah, to if someone hadtold me this was available like
in those dark years, I'd belike, oh, well, at least I've
got that to look forward to.
Um so I guess yeah, you'reright, by sharing my story,
(33:16):
people can see, look at thisguy's lifestyle.
That's actually something thatI'm inspired by.
Kind of like how I was inspiredby Ali Abdal.
Hopefully someone will see mycontent and be like, oh I like
I'm a doctor, I'm kind ofburning out, but this is an
option for me.
Sam (33:30):
I feel like um the younger generations now are really
redefining what it means to havea career in so many different
things.
But if we look at healthcare,like if you think about what you
went into and that study, andnow you know to be able to be a
content creator, to travel, todo all the things.
(33:51):
Do you think that there's a bigshift happening systemically
through these systems?
You know, these youngergenerations aren't gonna put a
stand for the burnout and theywant different things.
Chris (34:04):
Yeah, I think so.
And especially with like seeingit online, it's they they know
there's other options out there.
Like they don't have to just doone career for their whole life
and like stick with it if theyhate it.
There are loads of things.
They could even work part-time,they could have like side
hustle online, they can dowhatever they want.
Kate (34:23):
How is that viewed from maybe more long-term people who
were more of the old schoolthought of this is my career,
this is my life, I'm the pillarof the community, and this is
you know, is there is a backlashof friction?
Yeah.
Chris (34:37):
Yeah.
It's I don't know, because Ihaven't spoken to them like
You're not feeling it at themoment.
Kate (34:42):
Yeah.
Chris (34:42):
You're not invited to those circles, those working
groups.
Sam (34:45):
What are these young kids on YouTube doing?
Chris (34:47):
I have oh I guess I've been to some like locums and the
consultant like finds out I'vegot content and they're like
often they just like, oh, that'scool, but they don't really
like understand like whatexactly I'm doing.
Some of them like, oh, I couldnever share that much of my life
online, that kind of thing.
But it's not just about contentcreation.
That's what I was gonna say.
Kate (35:07):
It's not even there are people with other passions.
And I think people are just nowlooking at their life and
thinking, what do I want my lifeto be?
Yeah.
And a career fits into that.
Chris (35:17):
Yeah.
Kate (35:17):
Whereas before it might have been what is my career
going to look like.
Sam (35:21):
Whereas now the career has to be every single day and
there's no room for anythingelse.
Chris (35:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You don't have space to exploreoutside of your own job.
Yeah.
Sam (35:31):
It's um Do you think we need to then redefine as well
what success looks like inhealthcare?
Because I feel like, say, beinga doctor, it was all very much
about the status of being adoctor and it's working hard at
long hours and I'm successful ifI'm there seven days a week.
Speaker 01 (35:49):
Yeah.
Sam (35:50):
Does that need to be reframed now for the newer
generations coming through toget more excited about wanting
to join healthcare careers?
Kate (35:57):
And because we still need people in all the metro areas.
Yes.
The the work that you knowisn't really for you now.
What needs to shift to makethat sustainable attractive?
Chris (36:06):
Yeah, we need to appreciate that everyone's
definition of success ispersonal.
Like everyone wants differentthings.
Like it's it's totally okay forsome people who they do want to
climb up that ladder, they wantto become a neurosurgeon, they
want the the titles, they wantthat kind of like life.
That's cool, we need thosepeople.
(36:27):
But then it's also okay forpeople who they don't see that
as a successful life becauselike if I did that for example,
I would be miserable.
Um success is like it's not atitle, it's more like a feeling
of your day-to-day, I think.
And I once did a locum where Iwas working along alongside a
(36:49):
consultant who he said he had avery diff different definition
of success, and he told me abouthis reverse week, which was
that he worked two days and hadfive days off.
So he'd work two days as anemergency consultant, and then
five days he'd be hydrofoilingby the beach or or whatever.
And that was his de definitionof success, and like it would be
(37:11):
very different to a lot ofdoctors or uh other
professionals definition.
Obviously, you'd get paid lessby working less, but it didn't
matter.
Kate (37:20):
What's important to you is different.
So, what does success look likefor you?
Chris (37:25):
For me, I'm very inspired by that consultance, kind of
like reverse week.
Um I think having I to behonest, my life now, I feel like
I'm very happy.
Like obviously I still want tokind of get I guess get the
title of being a GP just becauseit will open more doors.
(37:48):
Also, I get a bit more trainingand like get feel a bit more
comfortable.
Kate (37:51):
What is it about GP that interests you?
Chris (37:54):
I think like I said before, I'm a very
multi-passionate person.
There's nothing more boring tome than just specializing in one
thing.
Like I want to do all thesedifferent things.
And GP and emergency as well,to be fair, by hate night
shifts.
Um you see everything.
Like, and you can kind of makeit what you want.
It can be very varied.
(38:15):
Um so like a successful life tome would be working a couple
days as a GP and then the otherdays doing content or spending
time with family, friends, umjust living life outside of
medicine.
Sam (38:28):
Do you think that this is a big call if you do, but do you
think that coming out and doingthis locum life uh really saved
your career in medicine?
Chris (38:37):
Do you Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good question.
Definitely.
Because doing locum stuff, itgave me more time outside of
medicine to explore otherpassions like content, for
example.
If I was still workingfull-time all the time, and
knowing that I'd only be doingthat full-time stuff for the
rest of my life, I think I'd belike, is this really it?
(38:58):
I've got so much other thingsthat I want to try.
Um I think so.
Kate (39:05):
So if you think about attracting people into
healthcare, you're reallyinspiring people that you can
build the healthcare career thatyou want.
It doesn't have to be anycertain way.
It sounds like there are justso many pathways, so many
options, so much variety foranyone, which I think is a
really important message.
Yeah.
Do you still choose a career inhealth?
(39:26):
I think out of post-COVID yearswhere you know it's
challenging, isn't it?
I think there's a lot of peopleum who have felt the strain.
And I think it's just reallyimportant that anyone feeling
like that, there could be analternative option still within
healthcare.
Yes, yeah, you don't have tojust quit.
Sam (39:44):
You don't have to leave healthcare, you can still fall
back in love.
Absolutely.
Chris (39:48):
Yeah, yeah.
And the m the more like controland space you have over it, the
more you actually enjoy it, Ithink.
Like when I go to work now, Iactually enjoy it because I'm
not there every single day ofthe week.
I'm just there like because Ichose to be there.
Which is yeah.
Kate (40:03):
And then exploring all these new locations.
Chris (40:05):
Yeah, yeah.
Get to travel, get to go aroundthe country, see Australia.
Kate (40:11):
Or getting paid.
Chris (40:12):
Whilst getting paid, yeah.
Sam (40:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
What's um one change you thinkwe could make now that would
make healthcare happier foreveryone?
Chris (40:22):
Yeah, that's a a difficult one.
Big, small change, cover thechange.
Top ten, you know.
Yeah.
So it's hard because obviouslythe reason healthcare is bad for
health workers at times,especially on NHS and stuff, is
because of the system that theywork in where they're
under-resourced, understaffed.
(40:44):
That is like, I guess,politically, maybe things need
to change.
They need more funding for thepublic health system, whatever.
That's really hard to do.
I guess what we could do fromthe ground up is like maybe like
a cultural change aroundcelebrating healthcare workers
who do things outside ofmedicine.
(41:05):
Not celebrating like martyrdomwhere you feel like you have to
sacrifice your health, yourmental health, your physical
health to be a doctor or orwhatever.
Um So yeah, I guess likecultural shifts around that.
Sam (41:18):
Because that um it's in such conflict, isn't it?
Celebrating that martyrdom.
We won't look after our ownhealth.
Chris (41:25):
Yeah.
Sam (41:25):
You know, but yet we're healthcare workers.
Chris (41:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sam (41:28):
Even just to shift that that's mindset, yeah.
Chris (41:31):
Yeah.
Like not encouraging people tos stay two hours after after
work to get their the work done.
No, that that hasn't happenedhere.
Sam (41:39):
That was like it does happen, and that's definitely
come up in some of our otherconversations where um you know
nurses have said they're theystay back and they do another
shift and another shift andoften come in early the next day
and it's it's just a constantcycle.
And they were saying, yes, fromuh from the ground up, it's
it's from leadership not sasking more and more and more,
but it's equally for thehealthcare workers to say no,
(42:01):
like I need a break or or I'vegot these things on.
So it's but making that okay,you know, it's just a different
conversation.
Yeah.
Kate (42:08):
Bringing in mind to everything that we know about
other areas outside of health,of of how we need to treat
people in the workplace and andhow to inspire people to want to
come back tomorrow.
Speaker 01 (42:18):
Yeah, yeah.
Kate (42:18):
And recharge.
Sam (42:19):
Like you can't you can't keep working and serving when
you're you're on empty,physically, mentally,
emotionally.
Kate (42:26):
That's another shift.
The culture is, you know, theysay it's how you feel the night
before you go to work.
Chris (42:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's sort of the Sundayscary.
Yeah, the sundae scaries.
I've never heard that too.
Not anything.
Sam (42:38):
You guys are gonna get in front of a boss after any boss
scary.
But to be honest, though,probably that's what we really
love coming in more.
Like, I d I don't have that,but I can't imagine.
I probably did a little when Iwas an occupational therapist.
Yeah.
And I remember um probablysimilar to you, I was a bit
like, oh, is this it?
And I didn't do it for verylong.
And I remember when I went tothe UK in the NHS, they'd be
(42:59):
ringing and going, Do you wantthis shift?
Do you want to do this locum?
I was like, not really.
Kate (43:03):
And you weren't qualified.
You were like, I can't do that.
I don't want to go to the room.
Sam (43:05):
Yeah, I don't want to go work in that room.
I'm better off in pediatrics orwhatever it might be.
That's not my jam, mentalhealth.
So yeah, I did feel it then.
Yeah.
And I do sometimes think, had Inot felt like that, or if I'd
seen something a bit moreexciting ahead of me, maybe I
would have stayed in it.
You know?
So instead I went and recruitedoccupational therapists because
I felt like I was on thesidelines of the profession.
(43:26):
You know.
It's not too late.
No, I'm I'm all in now.
I'm gonna become a contentcreator.
Yeah, imagine.
Okay.
Kate (43:33):
No.
Well, so today, CMR are gonnabe making a donation to a
charity of your choice with thisepisode.
Chris (43:40):
Yeah.
Kate (43:41):
Where can we donate to?
Chris (43:42):
So I chose Against Malaria Foundation, if that's
okay for you.
Of course.
It's just your choice.
Just because I really like so Igot introduced to the idea of
effective altruism.
I don't know if you've everheard of it.
No, don't.
Basically, you are trying toinstead of like it's not really
about you feeling good aboutyour donation, but actually
putting your money where it willdo the most, uh, give the most
(44:05):
benefit.
So I've from my understandingagainst Malaria Foundation, you
almost get the most bang foryour buck, I guess, in terms of
like life save because it's verysimple.
Mosquito nets are really cheap.
Um so I guess your money goes abit further.
Sam (44:20):
So what a great choice.
Yeah, I love that.
Fantastic.
Chris, thank you so much.
Chris (44:25):
Thank you so much.
Like it's been really coolsharing my story.
Thank you for having thisplatform for like all other
health professionals and doctorsand nurses and everyone to
share their story too.
I think it's a really powerfulthing.
Sam (44:38):
Thank you.
No, it's our absolute pleasure.
And yeah, I definitely thinkum, you know, it's so important
that you can't be what you can'tsee.
And from sharing your story, ifwe could inspire some of the
younger generations as well towant to stay in health because
they can be more than just thatprofession, or they can
substitute something thatenhances that, I think is just
so powerful.
So we really appreciate yourtime.
(44:58):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Chris (44:59):
Thank you so much.
Kate (45:04):
We acknowledge the traditional custodians of the
land of which we meet, who forcenturies have shared ancient
methods of healing and cared fortheir communities.
We pay our respects to elderspast and present.
From NHS burnout to locum life in Australia.
This episode is about what itreally means to take a break and
rebuild life on your own terms.
Chris (00:08):
We need to appreciate that everyone's definition of
success is personal.
I once did a locum where I wasworking alongside a consultant
who he said he had a verydifferent definition of success,
and he told me about hisreverse week, which was that he
worked two days and had fivedays off.
(00:29):
So he'd work two days as anemergency consultant, and then
five days he'd be hydrofoilingby the beach or whatever.
And that was his definition ofsuccess.
Kate (00:38):
Don't forget to follow and subscribe so you never miss an
episode.
And follow us on Instagram, ittakes heart for all the
behind-the-scenes fun.
Instrumental (00:46):
We care for the land and sea.
Sam (00:52):
Today's guest is Dr.
Chris G, a UK trained doctor,content creator, and YouTuber
who took a sabbatical, picked upa camera, and started asking
some big questions like whathappens when the job you've
worked your whole life forstarts making you miserable?
Chris's journey has resonatedwith thousands, not because it's
perfect, but because it'shonest.
Welcome, Chris, to It TakesHeart.
Chris (01:13):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's an honour.
Thank you for having letting meshare my story and all the
other health professionals youlet share their story as well.
Sam (01:21):
And are we calling you Dr.
Chris G or Chris?
Chris (01:24):
Just Chris.
Chris?
Sam (01:25):
All right, just in case, because I'm like you're a you're
a sensation online.
We don't want to get thebranding wrong.
Chris (01:31):
Chris is absolutely fine.
Kate (01:33):
So we'd love to go back.
Chris (01:35):
Yeah.
Kate (01:36):
How what what made you become a doctor?
Chris (01:39):
So yeah, we touched on this earlier.
So my both my parents arepharmacists.
So hospital pharmacists aswell.
And it was always just in myhead that, oh yeah, we're gonna
I'm gonna do somethinghealthcare related, something in
the hospital.
And then when I went got tosort of unit choosing my
(02:00):
university degree, they werevery much of the mindset you
need to choose a degree whichhas a job at the end of it.
So like medicine, law,engineering.
So that already kind of likenarrowed my thing.
And I wasn't I didn't like holdit against them or anything for
that.
Um and then also at the sametime I really liked scrubs as a
(02:23):
15, 16-year-old.
TV showing that the team, notthat you weren't walking around
dressed in your scrubs.
Yeah, I did also like scrubs.
It was huge.
Like that's a big part of popculture.
And I think at that age you'relike so impressionable.
Even like now, I th I feel likeI'm a very impressionable
person.
Yes.
Um so I just thought, well, Ihave to choose something with a
job at the end of it.
I have to go down one of thesepaths.
(02:46):
Why not just do this?
It seems fun.
Doctors are funny, they havelike fun relationships.
So I had a very warped view ofwhat medicine actually was.
I don't actually know.
Because I'm definitely I Idefinitely daydreamed a lot,
like JD.
So like just kind of like lostin my own head a lot.
I'd probably say JD.
(03:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sam (03:10):
And so you went when you got to medicine, you were like
So you went into the NHS?
Chris (03:15):
Yeah, yeah.
So five years of med school,then straight so that was
straight off to high school,because you don't need to be um
postgrad in the UK.
And then That's very young.
Yeah, like at 18, just likechucked in.
And then yeah.
Sam (03:31):
So you can explain that though.
Like you can be working in theNHS straight out of high school.
Chris (03:36):
Uh so no, so it's like straight out of high school you
go to medical school.
Right.
So you didn't do an undergrad.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, so at 18 But in mymedical school we did also do
like clinical placements veryearly.
So I think even from secondyear we were on the wards as
medical students.
So like 19-year-olds and stuff.
You're not technically working,but you're kind of helping out
(03:58):
here and there and and of thatstuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sam (04:02):
And so what was it like?
What's the NHS like?
I mean you haven't been therefor a couple of years, but
compared to more than a couple,yeah.
Yeah, like what was it likeworking in the NHS?
Chris (04:11):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's so the the more distance,like more time-wise that passes
between me working in it andnow, the harder it is to
actually remember.
But all I can describe is likethe feeling that I would have
every single day waking up,which was I guess just anxiety,
(04:32):
like low mood.
And it's because I always feltout of my depth, I always felt
like there wasn't enough supportaround me.
Senior support or just yeah, Iguess senior support, especially
like out of hour shifts.
Um you'd have you'd have peopleyou could call, but there was
(04:53):
kind of like a uh unwritten rulewhich is like only like really
serious stuff.
If those little awkward thingswhat you're not sure about,
you're like, oh should I call?
Yeah.
Kate (05:05):
And when you're a couple of years out, like I imagine a
lot of life experience countswhen you're becoming a doctor
and having seen X number ofpatients in the past and being
able to say I've I've seen thisbefore, whereas if you haven't,
to make those decisions mustfeel really stressful.
Chris (05:21):
Exactly, yeah.
And you've probably heard likethe UK doctors have just like
finished a another five-daystrike.
I think also when you compareyour your life to your friends
who are like they went to thesame high school as you, for
example, but they're they saidthey're working in the city in
finance or and they're liketheir lives seem a lot better
(05:42):
because they earn a lot moremoney.
And I know it sounds bad, butthat does help when you can pay
your rent and do your groceries.
Um so I'm very behind like thethe doctor strikes because it I
don't think they get paid enoughfor for what they do.
Sam (06:00):
And is that the main reason if someone's going, well, why
are they striking?
Is that the main reason?
Is it for pay?
Chris (06:06):
I think pay helps, but to be honest, it's like the whole
system is asking too much fromthem.
Yeah.
Um like their lives my my lifewas very difficult as a as a
junior doctor.
Just the the stress level, theworking hours, not being able to
have a life outside ofmedicine.
Kate (06:28):
And like the caseload when you're there.
Chris (06:30):
The caseload, yeah.
So just for example, I rememberso this was F2, so like second
year out of medical school.
We do like medical um on calland over the weekends our vowers
was always terrible.
But over the weekends, it wasme, another F2, and a registrar
(06:52):
and like a nurse practitionercovering 400 patients.
And these weren't like peoplewith like coughs and colds,
these were sick medicalinpatients, like a lot of them
critically ill.
And if your registrar is doingso your registrar's like just a
bit senior than you, if he'sbusy doing recesses on multiple
patients, like you're not gonnabe able to ask him any questions
(07:13):
or her any questions.
You're gonna have to s do thesethings on your own.
And uh you have obviously youhave to prioritize the critical
things, but then you have thislike list of uh 50 other things
that you need to do.
You've got your bleep going offall day.
And factor in like if you ifyou're doing that overnight,
you're sleep deprived and uh itjust it's not a good way to
(07:35):
live.
Like it just really takes itstoll.
And uh when you're given whenyou're given like a workload
that's not humanly possible todo and you can't do it, you feel
like you're not good enough asa person, you're not good enough
as a doctor.
And I think that has a lot ofrepercussions with your your
mental health as well.
Sam (07:54):
So d you hit a point where you were like, enough.
What was that point?
What was there sounds like itwas sort of building, building,
was there one point?
Chris (08:06):
I'd say it would be more of a gradual thing.
Even I guess throughout medicalschool, I wasn't 100% sure
because I'd see like my moresenior colleagues at the time
they were just like first-yeardoctors.
I'd see them and be like, oh,I'm not sure I actually want
their life.
They don't seem very happy.
Kate (08:22):
And that's a difficult place to be in itself if you're
continuing your studies andyou're pushing and putting
everything into this andsacrificing a lot of social life
and other things to do thisthing that you want to do.
Yeah.
Sam (08:33):
And then not look up to those really senior people that
are doing it.
Chris (08:36):
Yeah, yeah.
Like they always say you shouldsee look at the person five
years ahead of you on the samepath.
Do you want to do what they'redoing?
And a lot of the time itwasn't.
Like when I was back in theNHS, I I didn't see anyone that
actually genuinely inspired me.
And it didn't excite me to likerecreate their life in my own.
Yeah.
Sam (08:55):
That's really sad, isn't it?
Chris (08:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Sam (08:58):
So one day you went enough.
Chris (09:01):
Yeah, so there's quite a natural break in the UK between
so after your foundation years,so the first two years after
medical school are called yourfoundation years.
And most people will choose atraining pathway at that point.
But it's getting very commonnow that people will take a
break after that.
I think it's more common thanpe that people take a break than
(09:24):
don't, whether that's to travelor to like study something else
or just do something completelydifferent from it.
Yeah.
Like for for example, mysister, she she's also a doctor,
um, but she just became a yogainstructor for like a year or
two, even maybe.
Yeah.
And then started her training.
Kate (09:42):
So it's almost like you're not having the gas here when
you leave high school.
Yeah.
It's like you sort of have itthere.
Chris (09:46):
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
And I think people arerealizing they really need it
after those first couple yearsworking in the NHS and being
like really under the pump forfor that long.
Most most doctors feel likethey need it and are recognising
that they need it as well.
Sam (10:03):
And so then you took that that break.
Chris (10:06):
Yeah.
Sam (10:07):
Where did you go?
How did you get from beingburnt out to in Australia
low-caming?
Like what did that space looklike?
Kate (10:13):
And was it a break like I'm not going back?
Or was it a couple of them?
Was it like to read?
I've actually had multiplebreaks now.
Chris (10:21):
I've had so that first break, so it was six months
after foundation year two.
And that was like, I think I'mdone with medicine.
I don't want to go back to theNHS.
It was very like cliche, likemy hair was like down to here.
Yeah.
Kate (10:36):
And what year are we talking about?
Chris (10:38):
Uh this would be 2019.
Right.
Kate (10:40):
So just before COVID.
Yes, just before COVID.
Chris (10:43):
Yeah.
So six months, long-hairedChris with a backpack, traveling
Southeast Asia, findinghimself.
Very cliche.
Very cliche.
But it was like honestly thebest thing that I ever did.
Sam (10:54):
Is this when you did like the 10 days meditating in
silence?
Chris (10:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I've actually done thattwice now.
Sam (11:01):
Yeah, oh wow, you've gone back for more.
Chris (11:03):
Yeah, I went back for normal.
Sam (11:04):
I don't know.
Tell me about that experience,was it?
Chris (11:07):
Oh, it's uh probably one of the hardest things you can
put yourself through.
Sam (11:12):
Because I think I heard that you were like it got hard.
Like by day ten, you were like,I'm good, but Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Chris (11:18):
Like but it's also one of the most fascinating
experiences you can have aswell.
Like being able to observe yourown mind for that long.
Like when have you ever beendisconnected from society or
anything for different things?
Sam (11:31):
I struggle to meditate.
Ten days.
Chris (11:36):
Yeah, ten hours per day of meditation.
So seated cross-legged on thefloor and just focusing on your
breath initially and thenscanning your body.
And you have like some guidanceand stuff, and you get meal
breaks like breakfast and lunch.
But yeah, that's where wereyou?
Uh first one was in Myanmar.
That's actually where itoriginated from, the this
(11:59):
particular Vipassana one that uhwe do.
And then the second one waswith my fiance last year in
Jakarta in Indonesia.
Sam (12:08):
So you did first six months, long hair, backpacking,
Southeast Asia.
Then what happened?
Chris (12:15):
And then I came back to the UK and I started locuming a
bit in the UK, but it was I wasjust locuming in the hospital
that I worked at for F2.
So I wasn't really liketravelling around or anything.
It's just like, oh, they need adoctor, I'll just work that I
already know the system, etc.
And then I was like, I actuallydon't know what I'm doing with
my life right now, because Idon't know what specialty I want
(12:36):
to do.
Like, I guess I should pickone, or if I should just leave
and do something else, but Ican't because I've been studying
for so long.
I've got to throw it away.
That's such a tough thing,isn't it?
Sam (12:45):
When you put all those years in, and then you've got in
the back of your mind, I've gotto come out with a job as well.
Like I think we're also in thatera where we all had to go and
study something that you thenhad a job, and then to feel
like, oh, I don't know if thisis my thing.
Kate (12:57):
And I think as you get older you might look back and
go, well, that was just amoment.
But at the time, that's allyou've had.
So it feels like the biggestmoment ever.
Yes, exactly.
Chris (13:06):
Exactly.
So yeah, and then I guess itwas by chance I had one UK
doctor friend who went to thesame med school as me.
He actually just got hiscitizenship on Monday.
Just gone.
Um but he had been here forabout a year and he was like,
dude, you have to come toAustralia.
It's the best thing ever.
Kate (13:25):
And you hadn't been out?
Chris (13:26):
I hadn't been.
I'd come here for like a familyholiday to Cairns, like when I
was fifteen or something likethat.
And I was like, well, I'venothing else going on, so yeah,
I'll give it a crack.
And he got me a job at one ofthe emergencies in Brisbane.
Um and I worked there for ayear, and then I stayed there
for another year to get my likeGP prerequisites.
(13:47):
And then obviously you'resurrounded by a lot of other UK
doctors who are doing a verysimilar thing, and they
introduced me to like the wholelocum stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kate (13:58):
Because actually I remember seeing when you um were
sharing when you got you werelooking to do GP, is that right?
Yes, yeah.
Yeah.
Chris (14:07):
Still am.
Kate (14:08):
Still that's still.
But it's really challenging.
And I thought that was reallyinteresting when I saw that
video.
Yeah, not not realizing justhow competitive is a very good
idea.
Chris (14:16):
Yeah, it's getting a lot more competitive.
Um so that first intake thisyear for 2026 start was like uh
really oversubscribed andSoutheast Queensland, rural
Southeast Queensland, was themost popular region in the
country.
Um and obviously I that was myfirst choice.
I didn't actually put any otherpreferences because I really
(14:38):
did want to stay around here.
Uh so I didn't get a place.
But they have just uh opened upapplications for like second
intake just yesterday.
So I'm reapplying.
I've extended my um trainingpreferences to like was it North
Coast, New South Wales?
Yep.
Sam (14:57):
So maybe we can like build your profile and then be like,
if you let Chris in, we could dosome great profiling on the
program, you know,opportunities.
Yeah, yeah.
So have you locumed then allyour time has been out here
doing various locums?
Chris (15:12):
Um I have, yes, I worked two years full-time essentially
Brisbane, and then I've justbeen doing locuming around New
South Wales, uh, Queensland,Tasmania.
Yeah.
Kate (15:24):
And what have you noticed?
Like, what's the big biggestdifference between working in
Australia compared to the NHS?
Yeah.
Like are you enjoying medicineagain?
Chris (15:33):
Yes, yeah, definitely.
Like as as soon as I came over,even though I was working like
a full-time schedule, I justfelt a lot better in general.
Like my my mood was better.
I think part like a huge partis the weather.
Like it's it sounds clicheagain, but it's like if it's
sunny every day, it's a loteasier to go to work than when
like And not dark.
Kate (15:54):
And dark, yeah.
Chris (15:55):
Like Yeah, when you're not cold and miserable.
Uh I think I definitely hadlike an element of um SAD,
seasonal affected disorder forsure.
So that helped.
And then I just felt a lot moresupported.
Like I did a whole year ofemergency um at the Martha
Hospital in Brisbane.
And there's just always asenior there.
(16:16):
Like every single patient Isaw, I can run it by someone.
Kate (16:20):
Um if you look at the ratios, if you think about that
small team you had doing uhbeing responsible for that 400
patient load, how does thatcompare in a hospital like that?
Chris (16:29):
Yeah, yeah.
So I kind of I guess one thingthat I haven't experienced is
being like, for example, oncall.
Um because I I somehow managedto like slip around that.
So I actually probably wouldn'tbe able to compare it directly.
Speaker 01 (16:45):
Yeah.
Chris (16:46):
Um the the style of job that I was doing was very
different.
So like in emergency, you'rejust seeing one patient after
the other.
Whereas when I was doing theon-calls in the UK, that's when
we had that like high patientload.
I've heard it can be quite badhere as well.
So I'm not gonna do that.
Kate (17:03):
It depends obviously health service to health service
and where you're located andyou know all of those factors.
Sam (17:08):
Do you think um from the time that you've had in
Australia so far, had you umstudied medicine out here and
gone in, you know, in thosejunior years, do you think you
would have been equally as burntout?
It's a good question.
Chris (17:23):
Yeah, yeah.
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
From I feel like interns are alot more supported here, like
they're a lot more protectedjust from speaking to people and
just my experience.
It's but it's really hard totell, isn't it?
Sam (17:40):
Like when you look at the um, you know, the doctor's five
years ahead of you now.
Chris (17:44):
Yeah.
Sam (17:45):
Are you inspired by what you see out in Australia?
Yeah.
Because of the lifestyle that'sgonna be a household.
Chris (17:53):
So one of the things that actually got me to kind of
commit to staying was I wasworking in the martyr as well
with a consultant, emergencyconsultant, probably only like
maybe four or five years olderthan me.
He'd just qualified asconsultant.
And he this at thisconversation actually made me
want to stay in Australia.
(18:13):
He basically said he wasearning three times as much as
his um consultant friends backhome who were also working in an
emergency.
And in my head, I was like,well, if if that's the case, I
could actually work a third ofthe amount and like be on the
same wage as I would if I wentback home, which would free up
like two-thirds of my year.
Sam (18:34):
So imagine what you could do with you saying low-coming
too can be like a reverseholiday.
Like you can you can do allthese other things.
Chris (18:41):
Exactly, yeah, yeah.
I think coming here gave memore of my life back outside of
medicine.
Not that I I dislike medicineor any anything.
I just like a lot of aspects oflife and I don't like that.
Kate (18:53):
And being able to set boundaries for yourself to to
ensure that you can have thatbalance.
Chris (18:59):
So there's a the going whereas in in the UK it was like
you're a doctor and it feltlike I wasn't anything else.
I just kind of in medicine, Iwas burning out and like I
wasn't doing it, all these otherthings I wanted to try, like
content creation or tr trainingor anything like that.
Sam (19:15):
Yeah.
So there's loads of greatthings about being out in
Australia and and working in thesystem out here, but there's
also you know all of our creepycrawlies and we've seen on your
videos you've got Ron, the headof HR, the bird, there's m Dr.
Hopkins, the kangaroo,cinematic universe.
This is it.
You've even had um The Gardenercame in and did some ex-radies
(19:37):
at one point.
Chris (19:38):
Like That was actually true, that's it.
That was true.
Sam (19:41):
Right, so we've got to minute.
Yeah.
Um Let's keep it interesting.
I remember when we lived inLondon and people would be like,
God, out there there's bearsand there's can you ride
kangaroos to school.
Speaker 01 (19:51):
Yeah.
Sam (19:52):
Something's gonna kill you.
Yeah.
All the creepy crawlies.
Have you found any of thosethings confronting?
And what are the wildest thingsyou've seen on your travels out
here?
Chris (20:00):
Like, I feel like those things are so exaggerated by the
rest of the world.
Like all these creepy crawlies.
It's almost become like a memein itself.
Like Australia has like animalsthat will kill you and stuff.
I'm sure there are, but Ihaven't actually seen even going
to like these rural places,I've never felt like threatened
by an animal.
They're all very cute andapproachable.
(20:21):
Yeah.
Like Dr.
Hopkins and and Ron.
Ron's a bit annoying.
He's a curly, so yeah.
HR.
And noisy.
Yeah, very noisy.
Sam (20:30):
Um tell us about the gardener doing the x-rays.
Chris (20:33):
Yeah, that blew my mind.
So um basically when I this wasactually very recently in rural
Queensland.
I won't say exactly where itwas, but I in my first week I
was working in one smallhospital and I was told that the
nurses were doing x-rays, whichI was like, oh, that's really
cool.
So they just do an extracourse, which allows them to um
(20:56):
be an x-ray operator.
Doctors can do it too, butthere's like a weird loophole
that doctors aren't allowed todo it and then they can't order
the x-ray and then do it, whichis very strange.
So there's almost no point inthe in the doctors learning.
Yeah, referral process.
Yeah, it has to be a referral,yeah.
So the nurses were doing it,and I was like, wow, that's
(21:16):
awesome.
So I move and then I move tothe next hospital in the next
week.
And I find out that thegardener is is doing the x-rays
because he's done this sameextra course.
Kate (21:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Finding balance.
Chris (21:29):
Like he he literally mows the lawns and he comes in and
then he does the x-rays.
Only in Australia, right?
Only in Australia.
Yeah, yeah.
Sam (21:37):
But did you see as well like the role of the nurse
practitioner in Australia?
Did you think is their scope ofpractice much broader than
you're used to in the UK?
Chris (21:46):
Um Have I seen it?
I haven't seen a huge amount ofnurse practitioners actually.
I but just no normal nurses,like a huge like especially
rural, they've got like a hugescope of practice.
I often joke like they'rebasically the consultants out
there.
Yeah.
And in fact, I I because I wascomplaining, I went to at this
last one, I wasn't supported,even though I picked up a locum,
(22:08):
which was like I was promisedto be working alongside an SMO.
They didn't roster on an SMO.
There was like some issues.
Uh so I spent like three out offive days just like me running
the emergency uh and the ward asa as a registrar.
And I was complaining and madea few reels about it.
But then the nurses told methat they didn't even have a
doctor for six weeks.
So they were running the ED.
(22:30):
They were like doing all thedoctory stuff as nurses.
Kate (22:34):
Yes, they can.
Chris (22:35):
And I was like, I'll stop complaining now.
Yeah.
Kate (22:37):
And what are your friends back home?
Back in the UK.
What are they doing?
What do they think about that?
Like when they're watching allyour videos.
Sam (22:44):
Yeah.
Chris (22:44):
To be honest, I haven't this is quite recent me sharing
this like part of my life, thislike rural medicine stuff.
So um I'm yet to get muchfeedback from them.
I'm going back in November.
Okay.
So uh I'll see.
I'll ask them then.
Kate (22:58):
And I bet even I can only imagine the stress that they're
under even looking to you going,how do you have time to do all
this?
You know?
Like it's such a different lifethat you're living.
Yeah.
What do you think the otherbenefits of local rural work is?
Chris (23:13):
I think I prefer working like rural, I've realized.
But it's just so much like likeI've worked in busy EDs in the
city and I worked in like kindof busy EDs in rural.
But you just even a busy ruralED feels like way more
manageable.
It feel feels way morepersonal, like you're working in
(23:35):
a smaller team, everyone's likekind of having a laugh and a
bit more connected.
Whereas in these big metroones, you you you just become a
number, you're just like a cogand you're just like churning
through patients, you've gotpatients in the corridor.
One of my last shifts that Idid in the city, um, it was a
couple months ago, and I'vedecided it it will be my last
(23:58):
shift in the city because thewhole day I just saw patients in
the corridor.
Like I didn't see a singlepatient in a cubicle.
And I was like, this justreminds me of like ENHS.
I much prefer just having thatspace.
And and then you do you do geta bit of downtime and quiet time
between patients sometimes,which is like really nice.
(24:20):
I much prefer that kind ofslower pace.
And then occasionally you getsomething like a bit exciting or
or or whatever.
Yeah.
Sam (24:28):
Yeah.
So content creation.
Yeah.
Where when did that start?
Chris (24:33):
Like So I mentioned earlier how I was I'm quite
impressionable.
And I kind of grew up onYouTube, like just watching
YouTube as a kid.
I think maybe like early teensor something like that.
And I always wanted to be aYouTuber, but it was definitely
like a bit of a dark secret Ididn't tell anyone.
Kate (24:52):
And then my son shouts shouts that from the rooftops.
Sam (24:56):
Ask him what he wants to be a YouTuber.
I think probably now, likemany, many years back, like the
modern movie was many, but now,yeah, they start as kidnapping.
Chris (25:05):
Um But the problem was I also became a doctor, and then
going through med school, sworking in the NHS, I just kind
of buried that dream.
Just kind of kept it lockedaway as I was burning out in
medicine.
Sam (25:18):
Aaron Ross Powell Do you think also there was a little
part of that because it waslike, well, what's that as a
job?
Like if we think about yourparents and not to not your
parents, you know, disrespect,but it's like you know, trying
to g have a job at the end ofit, it seems just frivolous and
silly.
Chris (25:34):
A bit of a waste of time.
And that's so after thosefoundation years, I think I just
finished my travelling at thattime, my first six-month
travels, came across a YouTuber,doctor YouTuber called Ali
Abdal, if you've heard of him.
Probably one of the biggestdoctor YouTubers, well, he's an
ex-doctor YouTuber now.
And watching him justunapologetically make YouTube
(25:55):
videos, I was like, ah, I couldactually do this too.
He's a doctor, I'm a doctor.
We were very similar level,like he was doing his F2 as
well.
And it just gave me permissionto start, something that I'd
always wanted to do, butsecretly I thought I was like,
I'm not really sure if I cangive that a go.
Like it's not professional.
Sam (26:11):
Also comes back to that you can't be what you can't see.
Chris (26:14):
Yes, that's huge.
I really like that um thatquote as well.
Kate (26:17):
Like I really resonate with that.
And interesting that you'reworking in medicine with zero
inspiration of what you couldbe, but you've seen this other
person on social and that'sinspiring.
Yeah, yeah.
Like that's a problem, isn'tit?
That the the people in front ofyou.
Chris (26:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it was so cool just seeinghis journey, like how he was he
was still working full-time as adoctor at that point.
He was um doing his YouTubechannel, he was doing a podcast,
he was building a business atthe same time.
I actually it it did also blowmy mind how he was doing that.
Just comparing my F2 years.
I was like, I could have neverdone that.
(26:56):
Like, I don't know how hephysically.
Sam (26:58):
Have you ever found out how he did that?
Chris (27:00):
No, I would love to like speak to him one day.
Um but yeah.
Yeah, I think he's kind of goneoff the stratosphere in terms
of like how I like he's he'spretty famous now, I think, in
terms of like content creation.
Kate (27:13):
Is there anything that you don't or won't share online?
Chris (27:17):
Uh I d I draw the line of like, I guess, people around
me.
So like family, f friends,partner.
Like if they don't want to bein my videos, like that's 100% I
completely agree.
Like they shouldn't if theydon't want to be in it.
Um for me personally, no, I'mpretty open now.
Kate (27:40):
And I guess it was you mentioned there it was only
recently that you're doing thelocum life stuff.
So it was a lot of like thetravel and just say before then.
Chris (27:47):
Yeah, so when I was first inspired by Ali Abdel, I so
when I it was also just as Icame over to Australia.
Um Because you were inlockdown.
Did I see a video?
You were in lockdown, yeah.
So 2020, two weeks hotelquarantine, no windows open, no
fresh air, just me and my iPhone11 camera, and I was like,
(28:11):
well, if I don't do it now, I'mliterally never gonna do it.
Because much time.
Yeah.
So I'll just like okay, I'llstart making videos.
At the time I was really intolike calisthenics and fitness.
I was like, I'll just startwith the like fitness, because
that's what I wanted to talkabout.
So I started making like a fewof those videos.
And yeah, just that's that'swhere it all came from.
(28:31):
Just went from there.
Just went from there.
Sam (28:33):
You said though that it's like been the biggest personal
development journey.
Chris (28:38):
Yeah, yeah.
Sam (28:39):
Why?
Chris (28:40):
So it started off with like, yeah, me giving like
health and fitness tips, andthen with the travels, I was
kind of continuing that, butthen it got to a point where I
realised people really weren'tconnecting with that.
What they were connecting withwas just me sharing my own
story.
So I kind of lent into thatmore and realized I actually
(29:03):
enjoyed that more as well.
And you never run out of ideaswhen you're just talking about
your own life.
There's infinite ideas.
Uh whereas before the help forfitness stuff, you have to
really like research what you'resaying.
You don't want to say the wrongthings.
Kate (29:20):
Be an expert about something that you're not
trained in or what are you.
Chris (29:23):
And I think I actually really didn't like I liked and
still love making videos.
Um, so it didn't really matterwhat the content topic was
about.
I just wanted to create.
And in terms of so you askedabout it being the biggest
personal development journey.
So if I were to go back fiveyears and look at myself now and
(29:43):
be like, I can't believe thisis happening.
Like even just being here, likesitting to YouTube, sharing my
story.
Because I most people wouldhave considered me very like
introverted, doesn't reallyshare much about himself.
Chris is like the mysteriousone, we don't really know what's
going on in here.
Doing the content stuff justgave me a voice, like 'cause I
(30:04):
felt comfortable just you'reessentially on your own.
As a content creator, you'rejust on your own in a room
speaking to a camera.
And it was almost like ajournal, like I just also
describe it as like therapybecause I'm just venting to the
camera often.
Kate (30:19):
Does that feel hugely uncomfortable though?
I imagine when you starteddoing that, like it's a really
scary thing to be vulnerable,particularly if you are a bit
more introverted.
You've gone from zero to ahundred, right?
Like I'm introverted, I no oneknows what I'm thinking, but
here you go.
Here are all my thoughts.
Chris (30:37):
It was yeah, it was hard at first.
I guess at the start it waslike I wasn't sharing myself
because it was like health andfitness tips.
Yeah.
So that was fine.
It was still really scary justdoing that.
Kate (30:47):
I was gonna say that like did you have that fear of
judgment?
Chris (30:50):
Yes, yeah, yeah.
Kate (30:51):
And particularly friends.
I think sometimes when it's forstrangers, you're like, who
cares what they think?
But what are my peers and myfriends and my family gonna
think about this?
Chris (30:58):
Yeah.
So the hardest bit of contentcreation, it wasn't the tech, it
wasn't the editing, it wasn'tthe thumbnails.
It is the fear of being seen.
And not by random internetstrangers, but by people that
you know in real life.
What if my medical schoolfriends see this?
What if my consultant stumblesacross my YouTube channel and
brings up in the tea room?
That was like my biggest fear.
(31:19):
Not failing at YouTube and likenot getting any views, but
actually people seeing my stuff.
Which is weird because you'reputting yourself out there and
you do want to be seen, you dowant to get the views and stuff,
but at the same time you don'twant anyone to see it.
It's quite strange.
Um I think just with time ofdoing it over and over, I almost
(31:40):
I don't even think about thepeople watching it in a way.
Like it surprises me whenpeople say, Oh, I've watched all
your videos.
Sam (31:49):
You're like, really?
Chris (31:50):
Yeah, I'm like, oh, wow, okay, that's cool.
Sam (31:52):
You've got a lot of time when you're gonna be here.
Yeah.
Chris (31:54):
Because from my perspective, it's just me
talking to a camera and then Isee some numbers on a screen.
But actually I'm speaking tothousands, sometimes millions of
people.
Um and with time you just kindof get over it.
If you do it enough, yes, mymed school friends will see it.
Everywhere I locum now, peoplewill be like, I recognize you
from thingy.
(32:15):
And yes, I feel a bituncomfortable, but I think just
with time you get over it.
Sam (32:19):
But also that um those videos you shared too, again,
similar to the point of thispodcast, it's still it's also
shining a light on the work andthe experiences and just have
the human element of having abit of fun and what is it
actually like going and workingwhere you're the curler who is
the head of HR and all of thoseexperiences, but it also
inspires others.
Yes.
Which again, that can't be whatyou can't see for others and to
(32:41):
see this.
Speaker 01 (32:41):
Yeah.
Sam (32:42):
It just opens up so much more opportunity.
Yeah, yeah.
Did you know that this sort oflocum work existed?
If you look back.
Chris (32:48):
Oh, definitely not.
No.
Sam (32:49):
Because when you said you locumed in the UK, what's that
like compared to locoming at thesame time?
Chris (32:53):
Locuming.
It was just like, oh, thehospital I was already working
in, they need doctors.
I don't even know if it wascalled locoming.
It was just like, I'm justfilling in some like roster
gaps.
And yeah, to if someone hadtold me this was available like
in those dark years, I'd belike, oh, well, at least I've
got that to look forward to.
Um so I guess yeah, you'reright, by sharing my story,
(33:16):
people can see, look at thisguy's lifestyle.
That's actually something thatI'm inspired by.
Kind of like how I was inspiredby Ali Abdal.
Hopefully someone will see mycontent and be like, oh I like
I'm a doctor, I'm kind ofburning out, but this is an
option for me.
Sam (33:30):
I feel like um the younger generations now are really
redefining what it means to havea career in so many different
things.
But if we look at healthcare,like if you think about what you
went into and that study, andnow you know to be able to be a
content creator, to travel, todo all the things.
(33:51):
Do you think that there's a bigshift happening systemically
through these systems?
You know, these youngergenerations aren't gonna put a
stand for the burnout and theywant different things.
Chris (34:04):
Yeah, I think so.
And especially with like seeingit online, it's they they know
there's other options out there.
Like they don't have to just doone career for their whole life
and like stick with it if theyhate it.
There are loads of things.
They could even work part-time,they could have like side
hustle online, they can dowhatever they want.
Kate (34:23):
How is that viewed from maybe more long-term people who
were more of the old schoolthought of this is my career,
this is my life, I'm the pillarof the community, and this is
you know, is there is a backlashof friction?
Yeah.
Chris (34:37):
Yeah.
It's I don't know, because Ihaven't spoken to them like
You're not feeling it at themoment.
Kate (34:42):
Yeah.
Chris (34:42):
You're not invited to those circles, those working
groups.
Sam (34:45):
What are these young kids on YouTube doing?
Chris (34:47):
I have oh I guess I've been to some like locums and the
consultant like finds out I'vegot content and they're like
often they just like, oh, that'scool, but they don't really
like understand like whatexactly I'm doing.
Some of them like, oh, I couldnever share that much of my life
online, that kind of thing.
But it's not just about contentcreation.
That's what I was gonna say.
Kate (35:07):
It's not even there are people with other passions.
And I think people are just nowlooking at their life and
thinking, what do I want my lifeto be?
Yeah.
And a career fits into that.
Chris (35:17):
Yeah.
Kate (35:17):
Whereas before it might have been what is my career
going to look like.
Sam (35:21):
Whereas now the career has to be every single day and
there's no room for anythingelse.
Chris (35:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You don't have space to exploreoutside of your own job.
Yeah.
Sam (35:31):
It's um Do you think we need to then redefine as well
what success looks like inhealthcare?
Because I feel like, say, beinga doctor, it was all very much
about the status of being adoctor and it's working hard at
long hours and I'm successful ifI'm there seven days a week.
Speaker 01 (35:49):
Yeah.
Sam (35:50):
Does that need to be reframed now for the newer
generations coming through toget more excited about wanting
to join healthcare careers?
Kate (35:57):
And because we still need people in all the metro areas.
Yes.
The the work that you knowisn't really for you now.
What needs to shift to makethat sustainable attractive?
Chris (36:06):
Yeah, we need to appreciate that everyone's
definition of success ispersonal.
Like everyone wants differentthings.
Like it's it's totally okay forsome people who they do want to
climb up that ladder, they wantto become a neurosurgeon, they
want the the titles, they wantthat kind of like life.
That's cool, we need thosepeople.
(36:27):
But then it's also okay forpeople who they don't see that
as a successful life becauselike if I did that for example,
I would be miserable.
Um success is like it's not atitle, it's more like a feeling
of your day-to-day, I think.
And I once did a locum where Iwas working along alongside a
(36:49):
consultant who he said he had avery diff different definition
of success, and he told me abouthis reverse week, which was
that he worked two days and hadfive days off.
So he'd work two days as anemergency consultant, and then
five days he'd be hydrofoilingby the beach or or whatever.
And that was his de definitionof success, and like it would be
(37:11):
very different to a lot ofdoctors or uh other
professionals definition.
Obviously, you'd get paid lessby working less, but it didn't
matter.
Kate (37:20):
What's important to you is different.
So, what does success look likefor you?
Chris (37:25):
For me, I'm very inspired by that consultance, kind of
like reverse week.
Um I think having I to behonest, my life now, I feel like
I'm very happy.
Like obviously I still want tokind of get I guess get the
title of being a GP just becauseit will open more doors.
(37:48):
Also, I get a bit more trainingand like get feel a bit more
comfortable.
Kate (37:51):
What is it about GP that interests you?
Chris (37:54):
I think like I said before, I'm a very
multi-passionate person.
There's nothing more boring tome than just specializing in one
thing.
Like I want to do all thesedifferent things.
And GP and emergency as well,to be fair, by hate night
shifts.
Um you see everything.
Like, and you can kind of makeit what you want.
It can be very varied.
(38:15):
Um so like a successful life tome would be working a couple
days as a GP and then the otherdays doing content or spending
time with family, friends, umjust living life outside of
medicine.
Sam (38:28):
Do you think that this is a big call if you do, but do you
think that coming out and doingthis locum life uh really saved
your career in medicine?
Chris (38:37):
Do you Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good question.
Definitely.
Because doing locum stuff, itgave me more time outside of
medicine to explore otherpassions like content, for
example.
If I was still workingfull-time all the time, and
knowing that I'd only be doingthat full-time stuff for the
rest of my life, I think I'd belike, is this really it?
(38:58):
I've got so much other thingsthat I want to try.
Um I think so.
Kate (39:05):
So if you think about attracting people into
healthcare, you're reallyinspiring people that you can
build the healthcare career thatyou want.
It doesn't have to be anycertain way.
It sounds like there are justso many pathways, so many
options, so much variety foranyone, which I think is a
really important message.
Yeah.
Do you still choose a career inhealth?
(39:26):
I think out of post-COVID yearswhere you know it's
challenging, isn't it?
I think there's a lot of peopleum who have felt the strain.
And I think it's just reallyimportant that anyone feeling
like that, there could be analternative option still within
healthcare.
Yes, yeah, you don't have tojust quit.
Sam (39:44):
You don't have to leave healthcare, you can still fall
back in love.
Absolutely.
Chris (39:48):
Yeah, yeah.
And the m the more like controland space you have over it, the
more you actually enjoy it, Ithink.
Like when I go to work now, Iactually enjoy it because I'm
not there every single day ofthe week.
I'm just there like because Ichose to be there.
Which is yeah.
Kate (40:03):
And then exploring all these new locations.
Chris (40:05):
Yeah, yeah.
Get to travel, get to go aroundthe country, see Australia.
Kate (40:11):
Or getting paid.
Chris (40:12):
Whilst getting paid, yeah.
Sam (40:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
What's um one change you thinkwe could make now that would
make healthcare happier foreveryone?
Chris (40:22):
Yeah, that's a a difficult one.
Big, small change, cover thechange.
Top ten, you know.
Yeah.
So it's hard because obviouslythe reason healthcare is bad for
health workers at times,especially on NHS and stuff, is
because of the system that theywork in where they're
under-resourced, understaffed.
(40:44):
That is like, I guess,politically, maybe things need
to change.
They need more funding for thepublic health system, whatever.
That's really hard to do.
I guess what we could do fromthe ground up is like maybe like
a cultural change aroundcelebrating healthcare workers
who do things outside ofmedicine.
(41:05):
Not celebrating like martyrdomwhere you feel like you have to
sacrifice your health, yourmental health, your physical
health to be a doctor or orwhatever.
Um So yeah, I guess likecultural shifts around that.
Sam (41:18):
Because that um it's in such conflict, isn't it?
Celebrating that martyrdom.
We won't look after our ownhealth.
Chris (41:25):
Yeah.
Sam (41:25):
You know, but yet we're healthcare workers.
Chris (41:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sam (41:28):
Even just to shift that that's mindset, yeah.
Chris (41:31):
Yeah.
Like not encouraging people tos stay two hours after after
work to get their the work done.
No, that that hasn't happenedhere.
Sam (41:39):
That was like it does happen, and that's definitely
come up in some of our otherconversations where um you know
nurses have said they're theystay back and they do another
shift and another shift andoften come in early the next day
and it's it's just a constantcycle.
And they were saying, yes, fromuh from the ground up, it's
it's from leadership not sasking more and more and more,
but it's equally for thehealthcare workers to say no,
(42:01):
like I need a break or or I'vegot these things on.
So it's but making that okay,you know, it's just a different
conversation.
Yeah.
Kate (42:08):
Bringing in mind to everything that we know about
other areas outside of health,of of how we need to treat
people in the workplace and andhow to inspire people to want to
come back tomorrow.
Speaker 01 (42:18):
Yeah, yeah.
Kate (42:18):
And recharge.
Sam (42:19):
Like you can't you can't keep working and serving when
you're you're on empty,physically, mentally,
emotionally.
Kate (42:26):
That's another shift.
The culture is, you know, theysay it's how you feel the night
before you go to work.
Chris (42:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's sort of the Sundayscary.
Yeah, the sundae scaries.
I've never heard that too.
Not anything.
Sam (42:38):
You guys are gonna get in front of a boss after any boss
scary.
But to be honest, though,probably that's what we really
love coming in more.
Like, I d I don't have that,but I can't imagine.
I probably did a little when Iwas an occupational therapist.
Yeah.
And I remember um probablysimilar to you, I was a bit
like, oh, is this it?
And I didn't do it for verylong.
And I remember when I went tothe UK in the NHS, they'd be
(42:59):
ringing and going, Do you wantthis shift?
Do you want to do this locum?
I was like, not really.
Kate (43:03):
And you weren't qualified.
You were like, I can't do that.
I don't want to go to the room.
Sam (43:05):
Yeah, I don't want to go work in that room.
I'm better off in pediatrics orwhatever it might be.
That's not my jam, mentalhealth.
So yeah, I did feel it then.
Yeah.
And I do sometimes think, had Inot felt like that, or if I'd
seen something a bit moreexciting ahead of me, maybe I
would have stayed in it.
You know?
So instead I went and recruitedoccupational therapists because
I felt like I was on thesidelines of the profession.
(43:26):
You know.
It's not too late.
No, I'm I'm all in now.
I'm gonna become a contentcreator.
Yeah, imagine.
Okay.
Kate (43:33):
No.
Well, so today, CMR are gonnabe making a donation to a
charity of your choice with thisepisode.
Chris (43:40):
Yeah.
Kate (43:41):
Where can we donate to?
Chris (43:42):
So I chose Against Malaria Foundation, if that's
okay for you.
Of course.
It's just your choice.
Just because I really like so Igot introduced to the idea of
effective altruism.
I don't know if you've everheard of it.
No, don't.
Basically, you are trying toinstead of like it's not really
about you feeling good aboutyour donation, but actually
putting your money where it willdo the most, uh, give the most
(44:05):
benefit.
So I've from my understandingagainst Malaria Foundation, you
almost get the most bang foryour buck, I guess, in terms of
like life save because it's verysimple.
Mosquito nets are really cheap.
Um so I guess your money goes abit further.
Sam (44:20):
So what a great choice.
Yeah, I love that.
Fantastic.
Chris, thank you so much.
Chris (44:25):
Thank you so much.
Like it's been really coolsharing my story.
Thank you for having thisplatform for like all other
health professionals and doctorsand nurses and everyone to
share their story too.
I think it's a really powerfulthing.
Sam (44:38):
Thank you.
No, it's our absolute pleasure.
And yeah, I definitely thinkum, you know, it's so important
that you can't be what you can'tsee.
And from sharing your story, ifwe could inspire some of the
younger generations as well towant to stay in health because
they can be more than just thatprofession, or they can
substitute something thatenhances that, I think is just
so powerful.
So we really appreciate yourtime.
(44:58):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Chris (44:59):
Thank you so much.
Kate (45:04):
We acknowledge the traditional custodians of the
land of which we meet, who forcenturies have shared ancient
methods of healing and cared fortheir communities.
We pay our respects to elderspast and present.
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