July 8, 2025 • 37 mins
What does it take to truly fix healthcare in Queensland? According to Dr. Nick Yim, it starts with smarter systems, not just more funding. In this episode, we sit down with the AMA Queensland President to unpack a bold new idea: a statewide digital passport for clinicians. It’s a simple solution with the power to break down bureaucratic barriers and supercharge workforce flexibility across hospitals and communities.
But Dr. Yim doesn’t just talk policy, he brings lived experience. His winding path from would-be pharmacist to rural GP and now state advocate, reminds us that careers (and life) rarely follow a straight line. His passion for community-led solutions and patient-first care is as compelling as his insight into what today’s doctors really need to thrive.
With topics ranging from clinician burnout to the boundaries of AI, this episode is packed with heart, vision, and practical wisdom. Dr. Yim’s message is clear: great healthcare starts with great people and with the right support, we can build a system where everyone has a chance to flourish.
It Takes Heart is hosted by cmr CEO Sam Miklos, alongside Head of Talent and Employer Branding, Kate Coomber.
We Care; Music by Waveney Yasso
More about Dr Nick's Organisations of Choice, AMA Queensland Foundation
The AMA Queensland Foundation brings together medical colleagues and the business community to deliver vital services outside those catered for by the public health system. They were established in 2000 as the charitable arm of AMA Queensland, with a mission to improve medical conditions in areas of need.
Get to know cmr better!
Follow @ittakesheartpodcast on Instagram, @cmr | Cornerstone Medical Recruitment on Linked In, @cornerstonemedicalrec on TikTok and @CornerstoneMedicalRecruitment on Facebook.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sam Miklos (00:00):
We're forever talking about workforce
shortages in healthcare, butwhat if one of the barriers
could be really easily overcomewith a very simple solution.
Dr Nick Yim (00:10):
So one of the key things is trying to break down
those barriers and one of thesuggestions that AMA Queensland
has is a digital passport.
So this will potentially allowmovement of clinicians and it
just gives the ability tomobilise workforce on short
notice, because I can appreciatethat currently it takes a lot
of time and effort.
We can never predict whensomeone's unwell.
(00:30):
I think it's really importantto allow the staff or the
workforce to mobilize easily andquickly.
I guess getting doctors intoour state isn't it?
Kate Coomber (00:39):
If you're loving the conversations we're bringing
to life on it Takes Heart, hitthe follow or subscribe button.
Sam Miklos (00:50):
From pharmacy to medicine and now as Australian
Medical Association's QueenslandPresident.
Dr Nick Yim's story is one ofunexpected pivots, rural
advocacy and relentless purpose.
Welcome to it Takes Heart, nick.
Dr Nick Yim (01:03):
Yeah, thanks for having me today.
Sam Miklos (01:04):
It's been a pleasure .
Kate Coomber (01:05):
It's been a long time coming trying to get you
all of us together in a roomVery busy man.
Sam Miklos (01:15):
Can I start with?
How would you describeQueensland's healthcare system
in one word right now?
Challenged.
Dr Nick Yim (01:19):
I think there are great challenges across the
health of Queensland.
But it's not just Queensland,it is across the whole country.
So there are pressures in everyelement, and I think one of the
big pressures that we've beentrying to highlight is
definitely workforce.
Kate Coomber (01:32):
So I guess we've just come out of recent
elections.
We've got a shift in our ownstate government.
We've come out of federalelection lots of promises during
the campaigning.
I guess how will this impacthealthcare more broadly?
Dr Nick Yim (01:48):
I think it's great that state and federal
government has healthcare on theradar, but one of the key
things is government needs tolisten to stakeholders that's,
on the ground, to organisations,listening to the members,
consumers because what we see isoften is not what is delivered,
(02:08):
and that's a great challengebecause I think one of the
things is we do need asustainable healthcare structure
moving forward and we can't behaving workforce discussions or
rebate discussions five or tenyears down the track, which can
be very frustrating for allthat's involved.
Sam Miklos (02:22):
Yeah, completely.
So if we then slow it down fora minute and talk about the AMA.
So for people listening, who isthe AMA?
The Australian MedicalAssociation?
Where does the Queenslandbranch fit in?
What's their role and theimpact they can have?
Dr Nick Yim (02:38):
The Australian Medical Association, or AMA.
We're the peak medical advocacygroup for doctors.
We advocate for medicalstudents, doctors in training,
private specialists, publicspecialists, general
practitioners and also thosenearing retirement as well.
But the key thing with the AMAis we do hold the government to
(03:02):
account.
Obviously, without, I guess,that person holding them to
account, we don't know wherehealth policy would go, because
ultimately we do need to, Iguess, protect our patients, our
community, and to ensure thatwe are delivering safe health
care that is sustainable, movingforward.
Sam Miklos (03:18):
So why did you then want to be the AMA president?
Interesting, and how do you bethe AMA president?
Kate Coomber (03:23):
Interesting and Queensland president.
And how do you?
Sam Miklos (03:25):
become the AMA president.
Dr Nick Yim (03:26):
Yeah, everyone asks me that question, right?
Sam Miklos (03:28):
Why and how.
Dr Nick Yim (03:29):
Yeah, why how?
Kate Coomber (03:31):
Because I imagine we do speak to people and some
people really want to be a partof the advocacy piece and some
people want to help the personsitting in front of them, and
that's more their passion.
Dr Nick Yim (03:41):
Yeah, I think I was thrown into it, to be honest.
Kate Coomber (03:43):
Really.
Dr Nick Yim (03:44):
Yeah, it's one of those things that you tap on the
shoulders.
Oh, give it a crack.
Yeah, but it's the same as howI ended up becoming a doctor.
I actually never wanted to be adoctor.
I didn't ever want to be a GP.
Kate Coomber (03:57):
Tell us about that .
So what were you going to do?
Dr Nick Yim (04:00):
Yeah.
So I grew up in Brisbane,obviously did primary school
here, and you go through whenyou're young you think, oh, I
might be an astronaut, might bea professional tennis player?
Kate Coomber (04:14):
None of those things.
Sam Miklos (04:15):
So big dreams you were like an astronaut and a
professional tennis player.
So you were going to besomething.
Yeah, maybe, maybe.
Dr Nick Yim (04:22):
And then I remember vividly telling my mum when I
was about 10, I said, oh, I'mgoing to be prime minister.
I was like maybe, maybe, highperforming.
And then I remember vividlytelling my mum when I was about
10, I said, oh, I'm going to beprime minister.
I was like whoa, what's goingon there?
So all those kind of got wipedout pretty quickly.
But my dad was a pharmacist andit's something where I thought
I'll just end up being apharmacist and take over his
stores in Brisbane.
But then, due to peer pressure,they said, oh, why don't you?
(04:43):
My friends were sitting themedical entry exam and I said,
sure, why not?
You don't want to have regrets.
So I thought, let's sit it andgot a good enough score and I
attended Griffith Uni down atthe Gold Coast and then you
start your journey as being adoctor.
Sam Miklos (05:00):
And had you worked as a pharmacist.
Dr Nick Yim (05:02):
I did.
Sam Miklos (05:03):
Yes, right, okay.
Dr Nick Yim (05:06):
So I worked as a pharmacist.
I did so.
I worked as a pharmacist, so Ikind of know the systems pretty
well, how did you feel Like ifthat wasn't really the dream?
Kate Coomber (05:13):
how did it feel when you actually got started In
medicine?
Dr Nick Yim (05:16):
Yes, I think, when you're young, you try and grasp
things, and I think that's oneof the mottos is you take your
opportunities, because I thinktaking opportunities is so
important.
You just don't know where thepath will end up.
And it's the same as generalpractice.
I never thought I'd be a GP.
Going through med school, goingthrough junior doctor's years,
(05:38):
you think, okay, maybe apsychiatrist, an anesthetist, an
endocrinologist.
Sam Miklos (05:44):
Again, very different from where you've
ended up.
Dr Nick Yim (05:46):
Exactly, and it's the same as the AMA Queensland
Presidency.
The main reasons why I joinedwas because of the corporate
benefits.
Oh, honestly speaking, and thenyou work out that policy plays
such a big role and you have tobe in the tent to change policy.
And as you go through policyyou realise that the influence
(06:10):
that you can have withstakeholders and ideas are so
important, and I guess that'show I kind of eventually ended
up.
Do I still know how I ended uphere?
Probably not, no.
Sam Miklos (06:21):
When you said your journey as a doctor, I mean from
Brisbane and you're based inHarvey Bay now in general
practice.
So did you locum around, Didyou work in regional areas?
To come from the city to a moreregional area?
Where did that journey?
Dr Nick Yim (06:37):
come from.
When I was in my doctoratetraining years on the Gold Coast
, they had rural rotations, soyou can choose where you want to
.
I guess try before you buy.
I spent time out at Roma, inTully, north Queensland, so
three months rotations, alsoBiggerton Mitchell, and you do
(07:00):
learn about the challenges ofregional and rural practice.
But then at the same time yourealise the medicine is so much
more complex and diverse becauseoften you're it You're
everything yeah.
Kate Coomber (07:15):
Which must be very daunting when you're doing
those rotations.
Dr Nick Yim (07:18):
Absolutely, and as a junior doctor, it can be quite
challenging, but you alwaysfelt quite supported, supported
by your peers, by the community,all the above yeah, if, as an
individual, you reach out toyour peers, you pick up that
phone, go to conferences, younetwork, you realize it is
actually a pretty small world.
You see people from aroundAustralia and, okay, that's
(07:41):
someone who I can reach out toand, at the same time, if you
reach out to your community, maygo down to the local restaurant
, the gym, the local bar, youcan have a yarn with them and
it's quite beneficial becausethey are really supportive of
the doctors that come to thattown because they realise that
they're quite short.
Sam Miklos (07:57):
Yeah, absolutely, and you're a year now into your
term.
How long is the term as thepresident?
Dr Nick Yim (08:03):
So the term is one year, but you have the
opportunity to get re-electedfor a second year, and that's
the maximum.
Sam Miklos (08:10):
That's the maximum for me.
That's the maximum.
So have you been re-elected?
Are we coming up to that point?
It's an election campaign foryou, yeah.
Dr Nick Yim (08:18):
So, as we're doing this podcast, I have been
re-elected.
Sam Miklos (08:23):
Congratulations.
Dr Nick Yim (08:24):
So it gives me an opportunity to continue the
advocacy moving forward and toset a good platform to hand over
to the next president as well.
Sam Miklos (08:34):
So I was just going to ask in the last year what are
you most proud of?
And then, what do you want totackle then this year?
Dr Nick Yim (08:41):
So definitely, without a doubt, the state
government's commitment to thepayroll tax exemption is a great
success for Queensland.
At the same time, there hasbeen recent announcements of the
GP incentives, so we know thatit is a challenging landscape
(09:01):
for doctors in training to entergeneral practice.
So this is definitely a welcomechange from a state government
perspective because historically, general practice is a federal
government issue.
So it's quite warming to see.
The other big things isobviously the engagement with
state government.
We all know that there arechallenges across the state and
(09:23):
what we're trying to highlightand we continue to highlight, is
, I guess, the challenges thatdoctors face, and this is
further accentuated in regional,in rural.
Kate Coomber (09:33):
Queensland.
Can you maybe talk about someof those challenges, like what
are the things that you'rehearing and seeing and what are
those factors that you're reallytrying to trying to advocate
for?
Dr Nick Yim (09:44):
Yeah, we know, like in Queensland, we've had mass
immigration from other statesand also from overseas and at
the same time our population isageing and obviously along with
that increases the rates ofchronic disease complications
and that's unfortunately worsein the regional rural towns.
(10:04):
So that means our doctors needto see more patients, they're
seeing more complex cases, spendmore time and the cognitive
load.
So obviously we see theadaptation of changing, I guess,
bureaucracy.
What we're seeing is thatpaperwork, obviously more notes,
they must take differentreferral pathways, and what
we're hearing is that people arebeing burnt out because they do
(10:27):
need supports.
We do know that most doctorsprobably aren't working the long
, long hours that we've seenpreviously and they are, I guess
, looking after themselves,which is great.
So I've heard doctors say no,I'm not going to work full time,
I'm just going to work 0.8.
Sam Miklos (10:45):
And what caused that shift?
Because that's like a systemicshift where they would work and
work and we hear others going.
Well, I mean.
I'm the only doctor in thecommunity, so I just want to
keep going and going.
Dr Nick Yim (10:56):
I think there's many reasons.
What's led to that systemicshift?
At the same time, we arehearing, I guess, increased
education surrounding mentalhealth and doctors, healthcare
professionals.
We're not immune to mentalhealth challenges as well, such
as depression, anxiety, stresses.
We are working that high-paced,high-stress job and we are
(11:19):
hearing, unfortunately, ofcolleagues committing suicide,
and this is something that we doneed to change that landscape.
We also know that doctors whoare coming through now they do
cherish the, I guess, thebalance.
I was thinking times of family,friends and historically,
(11:40):
occupation was an individual'sidentity, but I think we are
seeing more of a balancedpicture yeah, absolutely, across
so many different professions.
Sam Miklos (11:48):
Yeah, sorry, I was gonna jump in, but you go.
Kate Coomber (11:53):
I was just gonna say so.
Um, the attrition is a hugeissue.
How do we, apart fromsupporting them, what are the
key things we need to do toassist with future workforce
shortages or ensure that peopleare choosing medicine in the
first instance, but also, fromthose challenges that you talked
about, that people aren'taren't going to be leaving
(12:15):
medicine, because I assume thatthey're great that people are
catching themselves and there isa bit of a balance happening,
but I'm sure that there's stilla huge majority where maybe it's
not the case or they don't knowwhere the support is and
they're opting out.
Sam Miklos (12:26):
To your point.
We don't want to be talkingabout workforce challenges in
another 10 years, right?
Kate Coomber (12:30):
Like that's a big question, you know what can you
do.
Dr Nick Yim (12:33):
But what are?
Kate Coomber (12:34):
some of the maybe the smaller things that can
really have big impact.
Dr Nick Yim (12:37):
Yeah, I guess how much time do we have today?
Sam Miklos (12:39):
Go, you go, go to you, high you go, you go.
Chip High level dot points.
Dr Nick Yim (12:42):
Yeah, I think there's.
I have a good friend in HarveyBay when I first arrived at
Harvey Bay and we acknowledgedthat Harvey Bay it is a regional
town when I first arrived, 11years ago now.
And people now are moving intoHarvey Bay for not for many
reasons, and one of the reasonsis location.
(13:03):
For many reasons, and one ofthe reasons is location so to
sell or to maintain doctors inthat job or that location.
It's not about money anymore,okay, I think people often think
, okay, we'll pay someone asquillion dollars and they're
going to stay.
But I don't think that's thecase.
We've seen this highlighted inmany rural areas where,
(13:23):
amazingly, government plus localcouncil have been offering
great packages, All sorts ofincentives.
Kate Coomber (13:28):
A lot of incentives which I guess might
get them there, but then theymake the money and leave.
Dr Nick Yim (13:33):
Or they might not be leaving because of the money
I think there's a need for.
Obviously, you need yourlocation, the area needs to be
livable as well, and also thelifestyle, and it's something
where I know in Harvey Bay,we've been negotiating with
local council and stakeholdersto go okay, what are things are
(13:53):
needed?
We know currently there's ahousing crisis, so one of the
challenges is if doctors do wantto move to a town and there's
no housing available, well, it'sgoing to be quite challenging.
At the same time, we needschooling for the kids, for
their spouse, potentially a jobas well.
So it's all intertwined.
But I think it's alsointegration into that community,
(14:15):
if they're welcome in thatcommunity, if they have things
that they can socialise andnetwork.
It's not just about food andwine, it's the whole package and
the monetary value, yeah, isnot just about food and wine.
Sam Miklos (14:24):
It's the whole package and the monetary value.
Yeah.
Kate Coomber (14:28):
And what are the other associations and things in
place?
So if a GP was going to go toan area like that and the
practice might have certainmeasures already in place, but
what else within the community,you know, if doctors are
listening or healthcareprofessionals who think I want
to go somewhere, where do theystart?
How do they find thoseconnections?
Dr Nick Yim (14:48):
So I can use myself as an example.
So when I chose Harvey Bay 11years ago, I was going up there
for training and I thought I'lljust go up there for two years
and come back down to Brisbaneand I didn't know anyone up
there and I thought, OK, let'sjoin a local Touch 40 club,
let's meet them.
(15:08):
So I remember Touch 40 team hada charter boat fisherman, a
solicitor, had a teacher andalso a groundsman and it's
something where you sit aroundafter the game, you can talk
about what's happening in town,maybe have a bit of a beer, and
then at the same time you formthose connections and you
network.
And it's something where it'snot just about socialising with
(15:30):
doctors and healthcareprofessionals, it's socialising
with the community.
So, that's one thing.
It's getting involved in thecommunity but at the same time
is making that effort to reachout a little bit further.
Have a conversation with thelocal barista, have a
conversation with the localrestaurateur, all those type of
things, because you definitelycan have those connections.
(15:51):
I love it that when I walk downthe Esplanade and Harvey Bay,
that when I go to my localcoffee shop my long blacks are
ready to go.
Sam Miklos (15:58):
Yeah, they see you coming, Exactly those small
little connections.
What about burnout?
You used to touch on that alittle bit earlier.
In your professional experience, or actually in your career
first, have you ever experiencedburnout?
Dr Nick Yim (16:14):
There are periods throughout my career where you
felt tired and fatigued.
I'm fortuitous that I have agreat support network my lovely
partner.
She keeps an eye on me.
At the same time, I've got twolovely dogs and they're quite
great stress relievers when theypat you.
But it's something where I'velearnt throughout time, where I
(16:37):
think some of the warning signsfor me is like when I go, oh,
I'm sleeping a lot more, I'mfeeling really tired, it might
be a little bit snappy orstroppy.
I think, okay, okay, I need acouple days off.
Yeah, um, I do have the luxury,uh, being a general
practitioner, being a privatepractice, I can go.
Okay, I'm thinking wearing abit thin, so how about I take a
couple days off, two weeks inadvance?
(16:58):
So it's looking at for thewarning size before it goes
downhill quickly do you thinkmore?
Kate Coomber (17:03):
oh sorry, no, no, you go.
Do you think more broadly,across the medical profession
that there is support around,that Is there, you know, people
leaning in and helping eachother, or are we?
Sam Miklos (17:13):
And how can leaders better support their teams?
What are the signs?
You hear varied things, don'tyou from?
Kate Coomber (17:19):
working in a hospital.
Very different environmentsacross Australia.
Are there some pockets whereit's more challenging than
others?
Dr Nick Yim (17:27):
I think definitely.
We've come a long way.
The mentality needs to change alittle bit.
So obviously, historically, wethink okay, I'm the only person
that can do that job.
Okay, I'm sick, I've got a cold, I've got a fever, but I've
still got to get to work becauseI'm the only person that can do
that job.
But I think the wheels arechanging, it's turning and I
(17:51):
encourage my juniors to taketheir sick leave If they're
unwell.
I want them to take that dayoff because I don't want them to
bring their cough or cold andspread it to my nursing team or
admin team.
And obviously if you take thatearly day off, it just means
that you'll be back to workearlier and it's going to be
less time off work.
So I think that culture ischanging and I think it's
(18:12):
turning a little bit in thehospital system because
historically people think, oh,if I take that day off it's not
going to look good for my CVs,all those things.
But that's definitely changedand I think there is definitely
support out there.
We've got great organizationssuch as Doctors Health
Queensland those something whodo provide support, which is
amazing.
Sam Miklos (18:32):
You mentioned earlier about the suicide rates
in the medical community.
Is it largely burnout that'sbeen the main contributor, or
are there other pressures thatwe're not aware of?
Dr Nick Yim (18:43):
It's an interesting question and this is something
where we probably do need dataon, and it's not a great topic
to talk about.
It is challenging but,anecdotally, what we're seeing
is often because we take so muchweight on our shoulders, as
doctors, any poor outcome oruntoward outcome.
Doctors, we feel guilty aboutit and obviously, if there
(19:07):
aren't supports in place, suchas debriefing, mental support,
speaking to colleagues, it canbe quite a lonely place.
So I think it's something whereit's really important that we
have those networks and, justlike any profession,
unfortunately untoward outcomescan occur.
Kate Coomber (19:25):
And I think in a smaller community, you often
know the person.
Dr Nick Yim (19:27):
Exactly, I would imagine.
Kate Coomber (19:28):
which adds an extra layer of grief and
managing, yeah.
Dr Nick Yim (19:33):
The other big thing is obviously the regulator,
APRA.
So AMA Queensland, we've beenworking very hard with the
regulator because some of thefrustrations that we hear is
often the delays ininvestigations.
Because some of thefrustrations that we hear is
often the delays ininvestigations and it often can
be quite challenging becausesometimes doctors may not be
able to work or might haverestrictions in place until the
investigation gets completed.
Sam Miklos (19:53):
So the AMA, do you have a lot of impact?
You know, after, at the minutewhen there's backlogs Say, we've
had the expedited specialistpathway come through there's
backlogs, can you influence thatat all or is it more?
Dr Nick Yim (20:05):
I guess it really depends what the term influence
is right.
Kate Coomber (20:07):
Yeah, right, do you work together?
Dr Nick Yim (20:09):
Yeah, we work together, we highlight the
challenges and I always have atheory that transparency is key.
We acknowledge that there aregoing to be budgetary
constraints for every department, whether it be the Queensland
Government constraints for everydepartment, whether it be the
Queensland government,queensland Health, apra, and
money is finite.
I think it's something where,if regulators can be transparent
(20:32):
, it's going to be assistedcommunication to doctors and
healthcare professionals.
Sam Miklos (20:38):
You know.
Going back to those pressurestoo, I was just thinking.
You know, in today's world,there's feedback.
You know, if patients aredisgruntled, they can jump on.
You know Google, today's world,there's um feedback.
You know, if patients aredisgruntled, they can jump on.
Kate Coomber (20:47):
You know google reviews, social media reviews,
restrictions and allegations youwere talking about, like has
there been an increase or isthat?
Has that always just been aproblem or have you seen a real
because of that?
Sam Miklos (20:58):
because people are yeah, they can type it's, it's
not, that was never.
There was never those forumsbefore.
But you, you see that now wesee them in forums now, where
they're literally named don't gohere, do this.
Dr Nick Yim (21:09):
It's an interesting landscape, isn't it?
Within the digital world, wehave definitely seen an increase
of complaints online that maynever reach the regulator.
Obviously, we also are hearingfrom the regulator.
There are increased number ofcomplaints, but many of those
complaints never reach thedoctor.
They just get palmed away,which is really promising, and
(21:30):
those are the things that wedon't hear.
But unfortunately, in thisdigital world, it's very, very
easy for complaints to be madeand it's unfortunately, quite
difficult for the clinicianinvolved to, I guess, defend
that because, you'll ultimatelybe breaching confidentiality and
privacy.
Kate Coomber (21:48):
Yeah, yeah, that must be a huge component for
people.
You know how do we overcomethat for people considering
medicine?
You know we really want peopleto choose this as a career.
What's the future for that?
How do we, how do we make surethat people feel comfortable,
that it's still a very safe andrewarding career, moving forward
(22:09):
?
Dr Nick Yim (22:09):
Medicine is a great career.
It remains safe, but I thinkthere's tweaks around the edges
that needs to be made.
Medicine now is totallydifferent to medicine 10 years
ago, 20 years ago.
Likewise, medicine in thefuture is going to keep evolving
.
It's going to keep changing.
There definitely needs to begovernment policy changes, also
(22:33):
to protect the public.
That's really important.
But at the same time, thereneeds to be protections against
frivolous complaints, and that'sgoing to be that.
Find that right balance isgoing to be the most difficult
thing.
Sam Miklos (22:44):
Yeah, I bet you talked about menace in the
future and technology and wewere talking before we started
about chat, gpt and I mean, isthis podcast even really
happening?
Kate Coomber (22:54):
It is and you just mentioned there's different
from 10 years ago.
If you think about the 10 yearsago today and then the 10 years
in the library pulling out theactual physical book.
Sam Miklos (23:03):
And you know now how is all of the tech advancements
AI?
How do you?
Dr Nick Yim (23:13):
see those impacting the medical profession in the
future the AI and tech advances.
It's already impacting, it'salready happening.
So we're seeing, I guess,scribes, we see dictation, we
see those things.
That's already there.
The biggest thing we do need to, I guess, be part of it.
(23:33):
We do need policy to ensurethat we are protecting patients,
to see who's responsible.
But we're already seeing, say,AI is already preliminary
reading radiology x-rays, alsolooking at skin spots and lumps.
There's already algorithms inplace.
We're already seeing in medicalschool and universities.
(23:56):
They're adapting.
They're probably using morevideos as opposed to those
lecture room style learning.
They're using videos.
They're probably using moreautomated type teaching.
It's a really interestinglandscape Moving forward.
It'll be an interesting spotbecause I think we're moving so
(24:16):
quickly.
It's hard to predict what'sgoing to happen five years down
the track.
Sam Miklos (24:20):
Is there any roles in healthcare that you see
becoming redundant with theadvancements of tech and AI?
Dr Nick Yim (24:28):
I don't think there will be roles of healthcare
being redundant becauseultimately there still needs to
be a decision maker undercurrent legislation and policy.
Someone still needs to be adecision maker under current
legislation and policy.
Someone still needs to beresponsible.
There can be, maybe,improvement of efficiency.
So that's going to bedefinitely really handy because,
given that workforce challenges, if we can improve scale and
(24:50):
efficiency, that can bebeneficial.
Kate Coomber (24:52):
And I guess the human error component too, it
could assist there.
Dr Nick Yim (24:56):
I think there's elements of reducing human error
, but there's something that Idon't think machines or AI can
predict is that gut feel thatcomes with experience.
Yeah, okay, that hunch where,even though, when you do a test
where a patient goes, oh,something's not quite right,
even though all the tests comeback normal, the clinician, the
(25:17):
experienced clinician, can gohmm, something's still not quite
right.
Even though all the tests comeback normal, the clinician, the
experienced clinician can go hmm, something's still not quite
right.
Let's do a further test.
So, I don't think technology cando that.
Sam Miklos (25:25):
And equally to that interaction piece as well.
You know, if we're just gettingresults coming back going, well
, nothing's wrong.
But then to have thatperson-to-person you know
patient-to-doctor interaction tosee them and think let's push a
little further, you can'treplace that either.
Dr Nick Yim (25:41):
Definitely not, and I think you bring up a really
good point.
It's that communication rapport, One thing that's so important
and I know you have manylisteners that might be coming
into Australia.
We do know that communicationrapport is so relevant,
important and also it'sdifficult to, I guess, teach.
It's something where it'scommunication, it's one of those
(26:04):
things with body language it'stricky.
Sam Miklos (26:07):
Yeah, and it's also learn like you said with
experience you know, so fromwhere you were a junior doctor
to right now, like picking up onthose cues, and maybe that's
where the AI, the research, youmight fast track some, but
you've still got to learn thosehuman skills which might mean a
completely different degree.
Kate Coomber (26:22):
So you know if you think about the skills we need
to hone in on Well definitely,and do you think with the
advancements there's going to benew roles that we currently
don't have new careers on offerin health?
Dr Nick Yim (26:34):
I think that's already here.
We've already got, I guess,people in healthcare, in
medicine they're moving into,say, digital advancements, AI
technology, maybe appdevelopment.
Those things are already hereand I think it's going to keep
moving forward, Like I'm surethere's going to be an increase
in robotics.
For example, we're alreadyseeing in orthopaedics and a lot
(26:56):
of surgical specialties usingthe use of robotics, but more as
an aid, but there may be a timewhen the robot will be doing
the whole surgery.
Kate Coomber (27:05):
Yeah, wow.
Sam Miklos (27:06):
You would never sign up for that surgery.
Kate Coomber (27:08):
I could just see you and be like no, so are there
any other initiatives with theAMA that you're really focused
on this coming year?
Dr Nick Yim (27:19):
With the upcoming Queensland state budget.
One of the big things thatwe're working on is definitely
workforce, but one of the otherpriorities is, I guess, the
ability to streamline themovement of the workforce across
Queensland.
What we're hearing from doctors, people who want to work in
Queensland and also aroundQueensland, is the challenges of
(27:41):
credentialing, and for thosewho are listening, what
credentialing is is essentiallycompleting all the paperwork
that's needed to work in thehealth service.
Sam Miklos (27:49):
And that paperwork is different in every region.
Dr Nick Yim (27:53):
And that's one of the barriers.
So one of the key things istrying to break down those
barriers, and one of thesuggestions that AMA Queensland
has is a digital passport.
So this will potentially allowmovement of clinicians.
So, for example, someone isworking on the Gold Coast and
maybe later on in a month's timethey want to work, say, at
Rockhampton or Mackay.
Sam Miklos (28:15):
Or even in some cases it's that they're just on
their holiday.
They might want to do a shortperiod of locuming.
Dr Nick Yim (28:21):
Exactly and it just gives the ability to mobilise
that workforce on short notice,because I can appreciate that
currently it takes a lot of timeand effort to get all your
degree certificate, yourimmunisations, your references.
So it's something where acrossthe state of Queensland we are
one state.
It's something where it will begreat if we can see a digital
(28:43):
passport in place.
Sam Miklos (28:44):
It's so true when you think about you know burnout
, even in these regional areaswhere if a doctor needs a break
it might just be a week, likethere is a workforce here, that
if we could get them to go outand do a week, like the impact
that could have for thatdoctor's wellbeing, for the
community.
But if it feels too hard to getcredentialed they're not going
to want to do it.
Dr Nick Yim (29:05):
Absolutely.
And I know, and you know, likeif it's one additional step or
two additional steps, it's likepeople go oh no, I won't head up
there.
And at the same time, for thelocum workforce, many of this
workforce is on short notice.
We can never predict, whensomeone's unwell At the same
time, it could be a familymember that's unwell At the same
(29:25):
time.
There might be conferencespeople might need to get out to.
And also, as you mentioned, isto prevent that burnout, I think
it's really important to allowthe staff or the workforce to
mobilise easily and quickly.
Sam Miklos (29:37):
What can we do to get behind that digital passport
?
How do we make that happen?
How?
Dr Nick Yim (29:42):
do we help?
I think it would be amazing andI guess it's keep mentioning it
.
It's something where, if we canhave people continue to lobby
for a digital passport and it'sa relatively low investment.
It's something where, if wethink about the time, that's
needed, yeah, what's needed toactually implement it.
Yeah, obviously I don't have thefull numbers, but if I think
about time costs, administrationcosts, staffing costs, I'm sure
(30:05):
it would probably be as a bareminimum.
It would be neutral, if notpositive.
I was going to say it wouldprobably have more of a positive
impact.
Sam Miklos (30:11):
If you think about all of the credentialing that's
done in every single individualregion.
It could just be so much easierand we could focus on other
issues.
Dr Nick Yim (30:19):
Absolutely, and it's, I guess, getting doctors
into our state, isn't it?
Kate Coomber (30:27):
Yeah, absolutely so.
You talked about what's neededin some of the rural areas to
really make sure that peoplethey come but they stay.
What do you think more broadly,how can we attract doctors to
the medical field?
Dr Nick Yim (30:38):
Really tricky question.
Sam Miklos (30:40):
Because it used to.
Just before you say that,because it used to be.
I know well, I'm probablyshowing my age now, but I know
we went through it.
It was such a prestigiouscareer.
It was like you were going togo be a doctor or a lawyer and
then it kind of like went downthe list.
But there's so many new careerscoming out now and also you can
have multiple careers.
So yeah how do you cut?
Kate Coomber (30:58):
through that and also into general practice as
well.
Dr Nick Yim (31:05):
I think medicine is still a very attractive career
for many people.
So for people in high schoolstudying in undergrad who want
to enter medicine, definitelytaken to arms.
The variety in medicine, Ithink that's something to
highlight.
It's not just clinical rolesnow.
There are many non-clinicalroles where a medical degree can
(31:26):
take you.
So that's where the attractionDefinitely.
We're probably in a generationwhere you've just highlighted
that it's not just one careeranymore.
Gone are the days, I suspect,people will just do medicine and
do one job.
They're going to diversify.
They might go into maybemedical politics, they might go
into advocacy, they might gointo research.
(31:47):
The world's an oyster.
There's so many things that isavailable on option.
There is still that, I guess,the respect, the knowledge
available.
But we're also competingagainst Google, the internet
technology, and that's what weneed to adapt.
And I think the thing that wecan adapt is communication.
(32:09):
If we can adapt ourcommunication and explain, okay,
the reason why it's not X, Y, Z, Google can't say do that.
Sam Miklos (32:18):
Yeah, absolutely, z Google can't say do that.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutelythe AMA.
Then what support do they need,you know, for you to do your
job well, from your members,from the community?
What can we do to help you?
Dr Nick Yim (32:33):
So the Australian Medical Association, ama, we are
a membership organisation.
There's often a saying that,obviously.
So the Australian MedicalAssociation, ama, we are a
membership organisation.
There's often a saying that,obviously, whilst only some of
the clinicians are payingmembers, the advocacy work that
we do do benefits all doctors.
So it's something where we doneed members to tell us what are
the pressure points, where canwe change policy so we can
(32:55):
advocate for you, for thedoctors, because ultimately, if
we can ensure that doctors arewell represented, they can
deliver better care for theirpatients and that will, in turn,
ensure a healthier Queensland.
Kate Coomber (33:09):
Yeah, 100%.
And maybe if there are doctorsout there thinking, do you know
what I'm really passionate aboutthis work and maybe I could do
this in the future and put myhand up at AMA, what advice
would you give them?
Dr Nick Yim (33:22):
Definitely put your hand up.
It's something where knowingthe stakeholders in the room,
knowing where the pressurepoints are, and then we know
that policy change doesn't occurovernight.
It can take months to years.
It might take a couple of termsto government, but knowing how
we can strategise, how we canadapt and change the policies,
(33:44):
that's crucial there.
But definitely put your hand up, give me a call.
Kate Coomber (33:48):
Fantastic.
Yeah, so I guess with thisepisode, CMR are donating,
making a donation to a charityof your choice.
Can you talk to us about wherethat is today?
Dr Nick Yim (33:59):
Yeah, so I would like to make that donation to
the AMA Queensland Foundation.
So the AMA QueenslandFoundation, it's a charity that
assists doctors, many groups aswell.
So, to give you an idea,sometimes the current
scholarships are for the medicalstudents that are facing
(34:19):
challenges, so they may bepersonal financial challenges
and it's really beneficialbecause some people we know that
without some of thosescholarships they couldn't
continue their studies and weknow that we need to continue
those doctors in our workforce.
Sam Miklos (34:32):
Yeah, excellent.
Thank you for your time today,Nick.
I've got to ask one thing thatdidn't get.
You said you wanted to be anastronaut and then a
professional tennis player, didI hear that you were a
professional umpire at one pointor something?
Dr Nick Yim (34:47):
I was actually.
Sam Miklos (34:49):
So good research.
No, I was just before we closeout, one moment there.
We missed something there.
Dr Nick Yim (34:54):
Yeah, so I had a great opportunity there.
We missed something there, yeah, so, um, I had a great
opportunity.
So when I was, I was quite ahigh state ranked tennis player.
Um, when my teenage years andthere was an opportunity to go
do some umpiring, um, so you gothrough the local tournaments
and, um around the age of 16, Iended up at the australian open
(35:15):
down in mel Melbourne, so thatwas a.
Sam Miklos (35:18):
Umpiring.
What an opportunity, umpiring.
Did you umpire anyone that wewould have heard of?
Dr Nick Yim (35:22):
Oh, absolutely so.
I actually umpired sixconsecutive finals on Rod Laver
Arena.
Sam Miklos (35:29):
Oh, my goodness.
Dr Nick Yim (35:30):
So Agassi Roddick Federer.
Kate Coomber (35:33):
Wow.
Dr Nick Yim (35:33):
Leighton Hewitt.
Yeah, the Williams sisters.
Sam Miklos (35:37):
Oh my goodness.
So I mean really, like youcould be prime minister.
Dr Nick Yim (35:40):
I mean, if it was like I was going to be fresh?
It's a tough gig.
I mean, this is a steppingstone, right.
Sam Miklos (35:46):
I feel like we're going to be talking to you in a
few years.
Can you come and talk to us?
Dr Nick Yim (35:49):
Mr Prime Minister, no, no, I think, live each day
as it comes.
The opportunities, I think I'velearned you do take them.
It's something where there'snever any certainties.
But at the same time I haveworked out that self-care is
(36:12):
pretty important as well.
So when I have theopportunities to take those
short little breaks, whether itbe half a day, full day, I try
and get out in the water, do abit of fishing, try and get
across the Gari, the beautifulBritish Cynos, fraser Islands,
great large sand island.
So I don't know what the futureholds and I don't think you
want to grasp too hard on it,because you can tell that paths
(36:34):
always change.
Kate Coomber (36:35):
Yeah, that's so true.
I think that taking opportunityis really a theme of a lot of
people we speak to.
It sure is.
Sam Miklos (36:41):
Thank you, Nick.
Thank you so much for your timeand thank you for all the work
that you've done for.
Ama, queensland.
It's been so great to be ableto sit down with you today and
spend some time, and we'reexcited to see what the next
year ahead holds there for youPerfect.
Kate Coomber (36:58):
Thank you, thanks for having me, thanks so much.
We acknowledge the traditionalcustodians of the land of which
we meet who, for centuries, haveshared ancient methods of
healing and cared for theircommunities.
We pay our respects to elders,past and present.
We're forever talking about workforce
shortages in healthcare, butwhat if one of the barriers
could be really easily overcomewith a very simple solution.
Dr Nick Yim (00:10):
So one of the key things is trying to break down
those barriers and one of thesuggestions that AMA Queensland
has is a digital passport.
So this will potentially allowmovement of clinicians and it
just gives the ability tomobilise workforce on short
notice, because I can appreciatethat currently it takes a lot
of time and effort.
We can never predict whensomeone's unwell.
(00:30):
I think it's really importantto allow the staff or the
workforce to mobilize easily andquickly.
I guess getting doctors intoour state isn't it?
Kate Coomber (00:39):
If you're loving the conversations we're bringing
to life on it Takes Heart, hitthe follow or subscribe button.
Sam Miklos (00:50):
From pharmacy to medicine and now as Australian
Medical Association's QueenslandPresident.
Dr Nick Yim's story is one ofunexpected pivots, rural
advocacy and relentless purpose.
Welcome to it Takes Heart, nick.
Dr Nick Yim (01:03):
Yeah, thanks for having me today.
Sam Miklos (01:04):
It's been a pleasure .
Kate Coomber (01:05):
It's been a long time coming trying to get you
all of us together in a roomVery busy man.
Sam Miklos (01:15):
Can I start with?
How would you describeQueensland's healthcare system
in one word right now?
Challenged.
Dr Nick Yim (01:19):
I think there are great challenges across the
health of Queensland.
But it's not just Queensland,it is across the whole country.
So there are pressures in everyelement, and I think one of the
big pressures that we've beentrying to highlight is
definitely workforce.
Kate Coomber (01:32):
So I guess we've just come out of recent
elections.
We've got a shift in our ownstate government.
We've come out of federalelection lots of promises during
the campaigning.
I guess how will this impacthealthcare more broadly?
Dr Nick Yim (01:48):
I think it's great that state and federal
government has healthcare on theradar, but one of the key
things is government needs tolisten to stakeholders that's,
on the ground, to organisations,listening to the members,
consumers because what we see isoften is not what is delivered,
(02:08):
and that's a great challengebecause I think one of the
things is we do need asustainable healthcare structure
moving forward and we can't behaving workforce discussions or
rebate discussions five or tenyears down the track, which can
be very frustrating for allthat's involved.
Sam Miklos (02:22):
Yeah, completely.
So if we then slow it down fora minute and talk about the AMA.
So for people listening, who isthe AMA?
The Australian MedicalAssociation?
Where does the Queenslandbranch fit in?
What's their role and theimpact they can have?
Dr Nick Yim (02:38):
The Australian Medical Association, or AMA.
We're the peak medical advocacygroup for doctors.
We advocate for medicalstudents, doctors in training,
private specialists, publicspecialists, general
practitioners and also thosenearing retirement as well.
But the key thing with the AMAis we do hold the government to
(03:02):
account.
Obviously, without, I guess,that person holding them to
account, we don't know wherehealth policy would go, because
ultimately we do need to, Iguess, protect our patients, our
community, and to ensure thatwe are delivering safe health
care that is sustainable, movingforward.
Sam Miklos (03:18):
So why did you then want to be the AMA president?
Interesting, and how do you bethe AMA president?
Kate Coomber (03:23):
Interesting and Queensland president.
And how do you?
Sam Miklos (03:25):
become the AMA president.
Dr Nick Yim (03:26):
Yeah, everyone asks me that question, right?
Sam Miklos (03:28):
Why and how.
Dr Nick Yim (03:29):
Yeah, why how?
Kate Coomber (03:31):
Because I imagine we do speak to people and some
people really want to be a partof the advocacy piece and some
people want to help the personsitting in front of them, and
that's more their passion.
Dr Nick Yim (03:41):
Yeah, I think I was thrown into it, to be honest.
Kate Coomber (03:43):
Really.
Dr Nick Yim (03:44):
Yeah, it's one of those things that you tap on the
shoulders.
Oh, give it a crack.
Yeah, but it's the same as howI ended up becoming a doctor.
I actually never wanted to be adoctor.
I didn't ever want to be a GP.
Kate Coomber (03:57):
Tell us about that .
So what were you going to do?
Dr Nick Yim (04:00):
Yeah.
So I grew up in Brisbane,obviously did primary school
here, and you go through whenyou're young you think, oh, I
might be an astronaut, might bea professional tennis player?
Kate Coomber (04:14):
None of those things.
Sam Miklos (04:15):
So big dreams you were like an astronaut and a
professional tennis player.
So you were going to besomething.
Yeah, maybe, maybe.
Dr Nick Yim (04:22):
And then I remember vividly telling my mum when I
was about 10, I said, oh, I'mgoing to be prime minister.
I was like maybe, maybe, highperforming.
And then I remember vividlytelling my mum when I was about
10, I said, oh, I'm going to beprime minister.
I was like whoa, what's goingon there?
So all those kind of got wipedout pretty quickly.
But my dad was a pharmacist andit's something where I thought
I'll just end up being apharmacist and take over his
stores in Brisbane.
But then, due to peer pressure,they said, oh, why don't you?
(04:43):
My friends were sitting themedical entry exam and I said,
sure, why not?
You don't want to have regrets.
So I thought, let's sit it andgot a good enough score and I
attended Griffith Uni down atthe Gold Coast and then you
start your journey as being adoctor.
Sam Miklos (05:00):
And had you worked as a pharmacist.
Dr Nick Yim (05:02):
I did.
Sam Miklos (05:03):
Yes, right, okay.
Dr Nick Yim (05:06):
So I worked as a pharmacist.
I did so.
I worked as a pharmacist, so Ikind of know the systems pretty
well, how did you feel Like ifthat wasn't really the dream?
Kate Coomber (05:13):
how did it feel when you actually got started In
medicine?
Dr Nick Yim (05:16):
Yes, I think, when you're young, you try and grasp
things, and I think that's oneof the mottos is you take your
opportunities, because I thinktaking opportunities is so
important.
You just don't know where thepath will end up.
And it's the same as generalpractice.
I never thought I'd be a GP.
Going through med school, goingthrough junior doctor's years,
(05:38):
you think, okay, maybe apsychiatrist, an anesthetist, an
endocrinologist.
Sam Miklos (05:44):
Again, very different from where you've
ended up.
Dr Nick Yim (05:46):
Exactly, and it's the same as the AMA Queensland
Presidency.
The main reasons why I joinedwas because of the corporate
benefits.
Oh, honestly speaking, and thenyou work out that policy plays
such a big role and you have tobe in the tent to change policy.
And as you go through policyyou realise that the influence
(06:10):
that you can have withstakeholders and ideas are so
important, and I guess that'show I kind of eventually ended
up.
Do I still know how I ended uphere?
Probably not, no.
Sam Miklos (06:21):
When you said your journey as a doctor, I mean from
Brisbane and you're based inHarvey Bay now in general
practice.
So did you locum around, Didyou work in regional areas?
To come from the city to a moreregional area?
Where did that journey?
Dr Nick Yim (06:37):
come from.
When I was in my doctoratetraining years on the Gold Coast
, they had rural rotations, soyou can choose where you want to
.
I guess try before you buy.
I spent time out at Roma, inTully, north Queensland, so
three months rotations, alsoBiggerton Mitchell, and you do
(07:00):
learn about the challenges ofregional and rural practice.
But then at the same time yourealise the medicine is so much
more complex and diverse becauseoften you're it You're
everything yeah.
Kate Coomber (07:15):
Which must be very daunting when you're doing
those rotations.
Dr Nick Yim (07:18):
Absolutely, and as a junior doctor, it can be quite
challenging, but you alwaysfelt quite supported, supported
by your peers, by the community,all the above yeah, if, as an
individual, you reach out toyour peers, you pick up that
phone, go to conferences, younetwork, you realize it is
actually a pretty small world.
You see people from aroundAustralia and, okay, that's
(07:41):
someone who I can reach out toand, at the same time, if you
reach out to your community, maygo down to the local restaurant
, the gym, the local bar, youcan have a yarn with them and
it's quite beneficial becausethey are really supportive of
the doctors that come to thattown because they realise that
they're quite short.
Sam Miklos (07:57):
Yeah, absolutely, and you're a year now into your
term.
How long is the term as thepresident?
Dr Nick Yim (08:03):
So the term is one year, but you have the
opportunity to get re-electedfor a second year, and that's
the maximum.
Sam Miklos (08:10):
That's the maximum for me.
That's the maximum.
So have you been re-elected?
Are we coming up to that point?
It's an election campaign foryou, yeah.
Dr Nick Yim (08:18):
So, as we're doing this podcast, I have been
re-elected.
Sam Miklos (08:23):
Congratulations.
Dr Nick Yim (08:24):
So it gives me an opportunity to continue the
advocacy moving forward and toset a good platform to hand over
to the next president as well.
Sam Miklos (08:34):
So I was just going to ask in the last year what are
you most proud of?
And then, what do you want totackle then this year?
Dr Nick Yim (08:41):
So definitely, without a doubt, the state
government's commitment to thepayroll tax exemption is a great
success for Queensland.
At the same time, there hasbeen recent announcements of the
GP incentives, so we know thatit is a challenging landscape
(09:01):
for doctors in training to entergeneral practice.
So this is definitely a welcomechange from a state government
perspective because historically, general practice is a federal
government issue.
So it's quite warming to see.
The other big things isobviously the engagement with
state government.
We all know that there arechallenges across the state and
(09:23):
what we're trying to highlightand we continue to highlight, is
, I guess, the challenges thatdoctors face, and this is
further accentuated in regional,in rural.
Kate Coomber (09:33):
Queensland.
Can you maybe talk about someof those challenges, like what
are the things that you'rehearing and seeing and what are
those factors that you're reallytrying to trying to advocate
for?
Dr Nick Yim (09:44):
Yeah, we know, like in Queensland, we've had mass
immigration from other statesand also from overseas and at
the same time our population isageing and obviously along with
that increases the rates ofchronic disease complications
and that's unfortunately worsein the regional rural towns.
(10:04):
So that means our doctors needto see more patients, they're
seeing more complex cases, spendmore time and the cognitive
load.
So obviously we see theadaptation of changing, I guess,
bureaucracy.
What we're seeing is thatpaperwork, obviously more notes,
they must take differentreferral pathways, and what
we're hearing is that people arebeing burnt out because they do
(10:27):
need supports.
We do know that most doctorsprobably aren't working the long
, long hours that we've seenpreviously and they are, I guess
, looking after themselves,which is great.
So I've heard doctors say no,I'm not going to work full time,
I'm just going to work 0.8.
Sam Miklos (10:45):
And what caused that shift?
Because that's like a systemicshift where they would work and
work and we hear others going.
Well, I mean.
I'm the only doctor in thecommunity, so I just want to
keep going and going.
Dr Nick Yim (10:56):
I think there's many reasons.
What's led to that systemicshift?
At the same time, we arehearing, I guess, increased
education surrounding mentalhealth and doctors, healthcare
professionals.
We're not immune to mentalhealth challenges as well, such
as depression, anxiety, stresses.
We are working that high-paced,high-stress job and we are
(11:19):
hearing, unfortunately, ofcolleagues committing suicide,
and this is something that we doneed to change that landscape.
We also know that doctors whoare coming through now they do
cherish the, I guess, thebalance.
I was thinking times of family,friends and historically,
(11:40):
occupation was an individual'sidentity, but I think we are
seeing more of a balancedpicture yeah, absolutely, across
so many different professions.
Sam Miklos (11:48):
Yeah, sorry, I was gonna jump in, but you go.
Kate Coomber (11:53):
I was just gonna say so.
Um, the attrition is a hugeissue.
How do we, apart fromsupporting them, what are the
key things we need to do toassist with future workforce
shortages or ensure that peopleare choosing medicine in the
first instance, but also, fromthose challenges that you talked
about, that people aren'taren't going to be leaving
(12:15):
medicine, because I assume thatthey're great that people are
catching themselves and there isa bit of a balance happening,
but I'm sure that there's stilla huge majority where maybe it's
not the case or they don't knowwhere the support is and
they're opting out.
Sam Miklos (12:26):
To your point.
We don't want to be talkingabout workforce challenges in
another 10 years, right?
Kate Coomber (12:30):
Like that's a big question, you know what can you
do.
Dr Nick Yim (12:33):
But what are?
Kate Coomber (12:34):
some of the maybe the smaller things that can
really have big impact.
Dr Nick Yim (12:37):
Yeah, I guess how much time do we have today?
Sam Miklos (12:39):
Go, you go, go to you, high you go, you go.
Chip High level dot points.
Dr Nick Yim (12:42):
Yeah, I think there's.
I have a good friend in HarveyBay when I first arrived at
Harvey Bay and we acknowledgedthat Harvey Bay it is a regional
town when I first arrived, 11years ago now.
And people now are moving intoHarvey Bay for not for many
reasons, and one of the reasonsis location.
(13:03):
For many reasons, and one ofthe reasons is location so to
sell or to maintain doctors inthat job or that location.
It's not about money anymore,okay, I think people often think
, okay, we'll pay someone asquillion dollars and they're
going to stay.
But I don't think that's thecase.
We've seen this highlighted inmany rural areas where,
(13:23):
amazingly, government plus localcouncil have been offering
great packages, All sorts ofincentives.
Kate Coomber (13:28):
A lot of incentives which I guess might
get them there, but then theymake the money and leave.
Dr Nick Yim (13:33):
Or they might not be leaving because of the money
I think there's a need for.
Obviously, you need yourlocation, the area needs to be
livable as well, and also thelifestyle, and it's something
where I know in Harvey Bay,we've been negotiating with
local council and stakeholdersto go okay, what are things are
(13:53):
needed?
We know currently there's ahousing crisis, so one of the
challenges is if doctors do wantto move to a town and there's
no housing available, well, it'sgoing to be quite challenging.
At the same time, we needschooling for the kids, for
their spouse, potentially a jobas well.
So it's all intertwined.
But I think it's alsointegration into that community,
(14:15):
if they're welcome in thatcommunity, if they have things
that they can socialise andnetwork.
It's not just about food andwine, it's the whole package and
the monetary value, yeah, isnot just about food and wine.
Sam Miklos (14:24):
It's the whole package and the monetary value.
Yeah.
Kate Coomber (14:28):
And what are the other associations and things in
place?
So if a GP was going to go toan area like that and the
practice might have certainmeasures already in place, but
what else within the community,you know, if doctors are
listening or healthcareprofessionals who think I want
to go somewhere, where do theystart?
How do they find thoseconnections?
Dr Nick Yim (14:48):
So I can use myself as an example.
So when I chose Harvey Bay 11years ago, I was going up there
for training and I thought I'lljust go up there for two years
and come back down to Brisbaneand I didn't know anyone up
there and I thought, OK, let'sjoin a local Touch 40 club,
let's meet them.
(15:08):
So I remember Touch 40 team hada charter boat fisherman, a
solicitor, had a teacher andalso a groundsman and it's
something where you sit aroundafter the game, you can talk
about what's happening in town,maybe have a bit of a beer, and
then at the same time you formthose connections and you
network.
And it's something where it'snot just about socialising with
(15:30):
doctors and healthcareprofessionals, it's socialising
with the community.
So, that's one thing.
It's getting involved in thecommunity but at the same time
is making that effort to reachout a little bit further.
Have a conversation with thelocal barista, have a
conversation with the localrestaurateur, all those type of
things, because you definitelycan have those connections.
(15:51):
I love it that when I walk downthe Esplanade and Harvey Bay,
that when I go to my localcoffee shop my long blacks are
ready to go.
Sam Miklos (15:58):
Yeah, they see you coming, Exactly those small
little connections.
What about burnout?
You used to touch on that alittle bit earlier.
In your professional experience, or actually in your career
first, have you ever experiencedburnout?
Dr Nick Yim (16:14):
There are periods throughout my career where you
felt tired and fatigued.
I'm fortuitous that I have agreat support network my lovely
partner.
She keeps an eye on me.
At the same time, I've got twolovely dogs and they're quite
great stress relievers when theypat you.
But it's something where I'velearnt throughout time, where I
(16:37):
think some of the warning signsfor me is like when I go, oh,
I'm sleeping a lot more, I'mfeeling really tired, it might
be a little bit snappy orstroppy.
I think, okay, okay, I need acouple days off.
Yeah, um, I do have the luxury,uh, being a general
practitioner, being a privatepractice, I can go.
Okay, I'm thinking wearing abit thin, so how about I take a
couple days off, two weeks inadvance?
(16:58):
So it's looking at for thewarning size before it goes
downhill quickly do you thinkmore?
Kate Coomber (17:03):
oh sorry, no, no, you go.
Do you think more broadly,across the medical profession
that there is support around,that Is there, you know, people
leaning in and helping eachother, or are we?
Sam Miklos (17:13):
And how can leaders better support their teams?
What are the signs?
You hear varied things, don'tyou from?
Kate Coomber (17:19):
working in a hospital.
Very different environmentsacross Australia.
Are there some pockets whereit's more challenging than
others?
Dr Nick Yim (17:27):
I think definitely.
We've come a long way.
The mentality needs to change alittle bit.
So obviously, historically, wethink okay, I'm the only person
that can do that job.
Okay, I'm sick, I've got a cold, I've got a fever, but I've
still got to get to work becauseI'm the only person that can do
that job.
But I think the wheels arechanging, it's turning and I
(17:51):
encourage my juniors to taketheir sick leave If they're
unwell.
I want them to take that dayoff because I don't want them to
bring their cough or cold andspread it to my nursing team or
admin team.
And obviously if you take thatearly day off, it just means
that you'll be back to workearlier and it's going to be
less time off work.
So I think that culture ischanging and I think it's
(18:12):
turning a little bit in thehospital system because
historically people think, oh,if I take that day off it's not
going to look good for my CVs,all those things.
But that's definitely changedand I think there is definitely
support out there.
We've got great organizationssuch as Doctors Health
Queensland those something whodo provide support, which is
amazing.
Sam Miklos (18:32):
You mentioned earlier about the suicide rates
in the medical community.
Is it largely burnout that'sbeen the main contributor, or
are there other pressures thatwe're not aware of?
Dr Nick Yim (18:43):
It's an interesting question and this is something
where we probably do need dataon, and it's not a great topic
to talk about.
It is challenging but,anecdotally, what we're seeing
is often because we take so muchweight on our shoulders, as
doctors, any poor outcome oruntoward outcome.
Doctors, we feel guilty aboutit and obviously, if there
(19:07):
aren't supports in place, suchas debriefing, mental support,
speaking to colleagues, it canbe quite a lonely place.
So I think it's something whereit's really important that we
have those networks and, justlike any profession,
unfortunately untoward outcomescan occur.
Kate Coomber (19:25):
And I think in a smaller community, you often
know the person.
Dr Nick Yim (19:27):
Exactly, I would imagine.
Kate Coomber (19:28):
which adds an extra layer of grief and
managing, yeah.
Dr Nick Yim (19:33):
The other big thing is obviously the regulator,
APRA.
So AMA Queensland, we've beenworking very hard with the
regulator because some of thefrustrations that we hear is
often the delays ininvestigations.
Because some of thefrustrations that we hear is
often the delays ininvestigations and it often can
be quite challenging becausesometimes doctors may not be
able to work or might haverestrictions in place until the
investigation gets completed.
Sam Miklos (19:53):
So the AMA, do you have a lot of impact?
You know, after, at the minutewhen there's backlogs Say, we've
had the expedited specialistpathway come through there's
backlogs, can you influence thatat all or is it more?
Dr Nick Yim (20:05):
I guess it really depends what the term influence
is right.
Kate Coomber (20:07):
Yeah, right, do you work together?
Dr Nick Yim (20:09):
Yeah, we work together, we highlight the
challenges and I always have atheory that transparency is key.
We acknowledge that there aregoing to be budgetary
constraints for every department, whether it be the Queensland
Government constraints for everydepartment, whether it be the
Queensland government,queensland Health, apra, and
money is finite.
I think it's something where,if regulators can be transparent
(20:32):
, it's going to be assistedcommunication to doctors and
healthcare professionals.
Sam Miklos (20:38):
You know.
Going back to those pressurestoo, I was just thinking.
You know, in today's world,there's feedback.
You know, if patients aredisgruntled, they can jump on.
You know Google, today's world,there's um feedback.
You know, if patients aredisgruntled, they can jump on.
Kate Coomber (20:47):
You know google reviews, social media reviews,
restrictions and allegations youwere talking about, like has
there been an increase or isthat?
Has that always just been aproblem or have you seen a real
because of that?
Sam Miklos (20:58):
because people are yeah, they can type it's, it's
not, that was never.
There was never those forumsbefore.
But you, you see that now wesee them in forums now, where
they're literally named don't gohere, do this.
Dr Nick Yim (21:09):
It's an interesting landscape, isn't it?
Within the digital world, wehave definitely seen an increase
of complaints online that maynever reach the regulator.
Obviously, we also are hearingfrom the regulator.
There are increased number ofcomplaints, but many of those
complaints never reach thedoctor.
They just get palmed away,which is really promising, and
(21:30):
those are the things that wedon't hear.
But unfortunately, in thisdigital world, it's very, very
easy for complaints to be madeand it's unfortunately, quite
difficult for the clinicianinvolved to, I guess, defend
that because, you'll ultimatelybe breaching confidentiality and
privacy.
Kate Coomber (21:48):
Yeah, yeah, that must be a huge component for
people.
You know how do we overcomethat for people considering
medicine?
You know we really want peopleto choose this as a career.
What's the future for that?
How do we, how do we make surethat people feel comfortable,
that it's still a very safe andrewarding career, moving forward
(22:09):
?
Dr Nick Yim (22:09):
Medicine is a great career.
It remains safe, but I thinkthere's tweaks around the edges
that needs to be made.
Medicine now is totallydifferent to medicine 10 years
ago, 20 years ago.
Likewise, medicine in thefuture is going to keep evolving
.
It's going to keep changing.
There definitely needs to begovernment policy changes, also
(22:33):
to protect the public.
That's really important.
But at the same time, thereneeds to be protections against
frivolous complaints, and that'sgoing to be that.
Find that right balance isgoing to be the most difficult
thing.
Sam Miklos (22:44):
Yeah, I bet you talked about menace in the
future and technology and wewere talking before we started
about chat, gpt and I mean, isthis podcast even really
happening?
Kate Coomber (22:54):
It is and you just mentioned there's different
from 10 years ago.
If you think about the 10 yearsago today and then the 10 years
in the library pulling out theactual physical book.
Sam Miklos (23:03):
And you know now how is all of the tech advancements
AI?
How do you?
Dr Nick Yim (23:13):
see those impacting the medical profession in the
future the AI and tech advances.
It's already impacting, it'salready happening.
So we're seeing, I guess,scribes, we see dictation, we
see those things.
That's already there.
The biggest thing we do need to, I guess, be part of it.
(23:33):
We do need policy to ensurethat we are protecting patients,
to see who's responsible.
But we're already seeing, say,AI is already preliminary
reading radiology x-rays, alsolooking at skin spots and lumps.
There's already algorithms inplace.
We're already seeing in medicalschool and universities.
(23:56):
They're adapting.
They're probably using morevideos as opposed to those
lecture room style learning.
They're using videos.
They're probably using moreautomated type teaching.
It's a really interestinglandscape Moving forward.
It'll be an interesting spotbecause I think we're moving so
(24:16):
quickly.
It's hard to predict what'sgoing to happen five years down
the track.
Sam Miklos (24:20):
Is there any roles in healthcare that you see
becoming redundant with theadvancements of tech and AI?
Dr Nick Yim (24:28):
I don't think there will be roles of healthcare
being redundant becauseultimately there still needs to
be a decision maker undercurrent legislation and policy.
Someone still needs to be adecision maker under current
legislation and policy.
Someone still needs to beresponsible.
There can be, maybe,improvement of efficiency.
So that's going to bedefinitely really handy because,
given that workforce challenges, if we can improve scale and
(24:50):
efficiency, that can bebeneficial.
Kate Coomber (24:52):
And I guess the human error component too, it
could assist there.
Dr Nick Yim (24:56):
I think there's elements of reducing human error
, but there's something that Idon't think machines or AI can
predict is that gut feel thatcomes with experience.
Yeah, okay, that hunch where,even though, when you do a test
where a patient goes, oh,something's not quite right,
even though all the tests comeback normal, the clinician, the
(25:17):
experienced clinician, can gohmm, something's still not quite
right.
Even though all the tests comeback normal, the clinician, the
experienced clinician can go hmm, something's still not quite
right.
Let's do a further test.
So, I don't think technology cando that.
Sam Miklos (25:25):
And equally to that interaction piece as well.
You know, if we're just gettingresults coming back going, well
, nothing's wrong.
But then to have thatperson-to-person you know
patient-to-doctor interaction tosee them and think let's push a
little further, you can'treplace that either.
Dr Nick Yim (25:41):
Definitely not, and I think you bring up a really
good point.
It's that communication rapport, One thing that's so important
and I know you have manylisteners that might be coming
into Australia.
We do know that communicationrapport is so relevant,
important and also it'sdifficult to, I guess, teach.
It's something where it'scommunication, it's one of those
(26:04):
things with body language it'stricky.
Sam Miklos (26:07):
Yeah, and it's also learn like you said with
experience you know, so fromwhere you were a junior doctor
to right now, like picking up onthose cues, and maybe that's
where the AI, the research, youmight fast track some, but
you've still got to learn thosehuman skills which might mean a
completely different degree.
Kate Coomber (26:22):
So you know if you think about the skills we need
to hone in on Well definitely,and do you think with the
advancements there's going to benew roles that we currently
don't have new careers on offerin health?
Dr Nick Yim (26:34):
I think that's already here.
We've already got, I guess,people in healthcare, in
medicine they're moving into,say, digital advancements, AI
technology, maybe appdevelopment.
Those things are already hereand I think it's going to keep
moving forward, Like I'm surethere's going to be an increase
in robotics.
For example, we're alreadyseeing in orthopaedics and a lot
(26:56):
of surgical specialties usingthe use of robotics, but more as
an aid, but there may be a timewhen the robot will be doing
the whole surgery.
Kate Coomber (27:05):
Yeah, wow.
Sam Miklos (27:06):
You would never sign up for that surgery.
Kate Coomber (27:08):
I could just see you and be like no, so are there
any other initiatives with theAMA that you're really focused
on this coming year?
Dr Nick Yim (27:19):
With the upcoming Queensland state budget.
One of the big things thatwe're working on is definitely
workforce, but one of the otherpriorities is, I guess, the
ability to streamline themovement of the workforce across
Queensland.
What we're hearing from doctors, people who want to work in
Queensland and also aroundQueensland, is the challenges of
(27:41):
credentialing, and for thosewho are listening, what
credentialing is is essentiallycompleting all the paperwork
that's needed to work in thehealth service.
Sam Miklos (27:49):
And that paperwork is different in every region.
Dr Nick Yim (27:53):
And that's one of the barriers.
So one of the key things istrying to break down those
barriers, and one of thesuggestions that AMA Queensland
has is a digital passport.
So this will potentially allowmovement of clinicians.
So, for example, someone isworking on the Gold Coast and
maybe later on in a month's timethey want to work, say, at
Rockhampton or Mackay.
Sam Miklos (28:15):
Or even in some cases it's that they're just on
their holiday.
They might want to do a shortperiod of locuming.
Dr Nick Yim (28:21):
Exactly and it just gives the ability to mobilise
that workforce on short notice,because I can appreciate that
currently it takes a lot of timeand effort to get all your
degree certificate, yourimmunisations, your references.
So it's something where acrossthe state of Queensland we are
one state.
It's something where it will begreat if we can see a digital
(28:43):
passport in place.
Sam Miklos (28:44):
It's so true when you think about you know burnout
, even in these regional areaswhere if a doctor needs a break
it might just be a week, likethere is a workforce here, that
if we could get them to go outand do a week, like the impact
that could have for thatdoctor's wellbeing, for the
community.
But if it feels too hard to getcredentialed they're not going
to want to do it.
Dr Nick Yim (29:05):
Absolutely.
And I know, and you know, likeif it's one additional step or
two additional steps, it's likepeople go oh no, I won't head up
there.
And at the same time, for thelocum workforce, many of this
workforce is on short notice.
We can never predict, whensomeone's unwell At the same
time, it could be a familymember that's unwell At the same
(29:25):
time.
There might be conferencespeople might need to get out to.
And also, as you mentioned, isto prevent that burnout, I think
it's really important to allowthe staff or the workforce to
mobilise easily and quickly.
Sam Miklos (29:37):
What can we do to get behind that digital passport
?
How do we make that happen?
How?
Dr Nick Yim (29:42):
do we help?
I think it would be amazing andI guess it's keep mentioning it
.
It's something where, if we canhave people continue to lobby
for a digital passport and it'sa relatively low investment.
It's something where, if wethink about the time, that's
needed, yeah, what's needed toactually implement it.
Yeah, obviously I don't have thefull numbers, but if I think
about time costs, administrationcosts, staffing costs, I'm sure
(30:05):
it would probably be as a bareminimum.
It would be neutral, if notpositive.
I was going to say it wouldprobably have more of a positive
impact.
Sam Miklos (30:11):
If you think about all of the credentialing that's
done in every single individualregion.
It could just be so much easierand we could focus on other
issues.
Dr Nick Yim (30:19):
Absolutely, and it's, I guess, getting doctors
into our state, isn't it?
Kate Coomber (30:27):
Yeah, absolutely so.
You talked about what's neededin some of the rural areas to
really make sure that peoplethey come but they stay.
What do you think more broadly,how can we attract doctors to
the medical field?
Dr Nick Yim (30:38):
Really tricky question.
Sam Miklos (30:40):
Because it used to.
Just before you say that,because it used to be.
I know well, I'm probablyshowing my age now, but I know
we went through it.
It was such a prestigiouscareer.
It was like you were going togo be a doctor or a lawyer and
then it kind of like went downthe list.
But there's so many new careerscoming out now and also you can
have multiple careers.
So yeah how do you cut?
Kate Coomber (30:58):
through that and also into general practice as
well.
Dr Nick Yim (31:05):
I think medicine is still a very attractive career
for many people.
So for people in high schoolstudying in undergrad who want
to enter medicine, definitelytaken to arms.
The variety in medicine, Ithink that's something to
highlight.
It's not just clinical rolesnow.
There are many non-clinicalroles where a medical degree can
(31:26):
take you.
So that's where the attractionDefinitely.
We're probably in a generationwhere you've just highlighted
that it's not just one careeranymore.
Gone are the days, I suspect,people will just do medicine and
do one job.
They're going to diversify.
They might go into maybemedical politics, they might go
into advocacy, they might gointo research.
(31:47):
The world's an oyster.
There's so many things that isavailable on option.
There is still that, I guess,the respect, the knowledge
available.
But we're also competingagainst Google, the internet
technology, and that's what weneed to adapt.
And I think the thing that wecan adapt is communication.
(32:09):
If we can adapt ourcommunication and explain, okay,
the reason why it's not X, Y, Z, Google can't say do that.
Sam Miklos (32:18):
Yeah, absolutely, z Google can't say do that.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutelythe AMA.
Then what support do they need,you know, for you to do your
job well, from your members,from the community?
What can we do to help you?
Dr Nick Yim (32:33):
So the Australian Medical Association, ama, we are
a membership organisation.
There's often a saying that,obviously.
So the Australian MedicalAssociation, ama, we are a
membership organisation.
There's often a saying that,obviously, whilst only some of
the clinicians are payingmembers, the advocacy work that
we do do benefits all doctors.
So it's something where we doneed members to tell us what are
the pressure points, where canwe change policy so we can
(32:55):
advocate for you, for thedoctors, because ultimately, if
we can ensure that doctors arewell represented, they can
deliver better care for theirpatients and that will, in turn,
ensure a healthier Queensland.
Kate Coomber (33:09):
Yeah, 100%.
And maybe if there are doctorsout there thinking, do you know
what I'm really passionate aboutthis work and maybe I could do
this in the future and put myhand up at AMA, what advice
would you give them?
Dr Nick Yim (33:22):
Definitely put your hand up.
It's something where knowingthe stakeholders in the room,
knowing where the pressurepoints are, and then we know
that policy change doesn't occurovernight.
It can take months to years.
It might take a couple of termsto government, but knowing how
we can strategise, how we canadapt and change the policies,
(33:44):
that's crucial there.
But definitely put your hand up, give me a call.
Kate Coomber (33:48):
Fantastic.
Yeah, so I guess with thisepisode, CMR are donating,
making a donation to a charityof your choice.
Can you talk to us about wherethat is today?
Dr Nick Yim (33:59):
Yeah, so I would like to make that donation to
the AMA Queensland Foundation.
So the AMA QueenslandFoundation, it's a charity that
assists doctors, many groups aswell.
So, to give you an idea,sometimes the current
scholarships are for the medicalstudents that are facing
(34:19):
challenges, so they may bepersonal financial challenges
and it's really beneficialbecause some people we know that
without some of thosescholarships they couldn't
continue their studies and weknow that we need to continue
those doctors in our workforce.
Sam Miklos (34:32):
Yeah, excellent.
Thank you for your time today,Nick.
I've got to ask one thing thatdidn't get.
You said you wanted to be anastronaut and then a
professional tennis player, didI hear that you were a
professional umpire at one pointor something?
Dr Nick Yim (34:47):
I was actually.
Sam Miklos (34:49):
So good research.
No, I was just before we closeout, one moment there.
We missed something there.
Dr Nick Yim (34:54):
Yeah, so I had a great opportunity there.
We missed something there, yeah, so, um, I had a great
opportunity.
So when I was, I was quite ahigh state ranked tennis player.
Um, when my teenage years andthere was an opportunity to go
do some umpiring, um, so you gothrough the local tournaments
and, um around the age of 16, Iended up at the australian open
(35:15):
down in mel Melbourne, so thatwas a.
Sam Miklos (35:18):
Umpiring.
What an opportunity, umpiring.
Did you umpire anyone that wewould have heard of?
Dr Nick Yim (35:22):
Oh, absolutely so.
I actually umpired sixconsecutive finals on Rod Laver
Arena.
Sam Miklos (35:29):
Oh, my goodness.
Dr Nick Yim (35:30):
So Agassi Roddick Federer.
Kate Coomber (35:33):
Wow.
Dr Nick Yim (35:33):
Leighton Hewitt.
Yeah, the Williams sisters.
Sam Miklos (35:37):
Oh my goodness.
So I mean really, like youcould be prime minister.
Dr Nick Yim (35:40):
I mean, if it was like I was going to be fresh?
It's a tough gig.
I mean, this is a steppingstone, right.
Sam Miklos (35:46):
I feel like we're going to be talking to you in a
few years.
Can you come and talk to us?
Dr Nick Yim (35:49):
Mr Prime Minister, no, no, I think, live each day
as it comes.
The opportunities, I think I'velearned you do take them.
It's something where there'snever any certainties.
But at the same time I haveworked out that self-care is
(36:12):
pretty important as well.
So when I have theopportunities to take those
short little breaks, whether itbe half a day, full day, I try
and get out in the water, do abit of fishing, try and get
across the Gari, the beautifulBritish Cynos, fraser Islands,
great large sand island.
So I don't know what the futureholds and I don't think you
want to grasp too hard on it,because you can tell that paths
(36:34):
always change.
Kate Coomber (36:35):
Yeah, that's so true.
I think that taking opportunityis really a theme of a lot of
people we speak to.
It sure is.
Sam Miklos (36:41):
Thank you, Nick.
Thank you so much for your timeand thank you for all the work
that you've done for.
Ama, queensland.
It's been so great to be ableto sit down with you today and
spend some time, and we'reexcited to see what the next
year ahead holds there for youPerfect.
Kate Coomber (36:58):
Thank you, thanks for having me, thanks so much.
We acknowledge the traditionalcustodians of the land of which
we meet who, for centuries, haveshared ancient methods of
healing and cared for theircommunities.
We pay our respects to elders,past and present.
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