Finding Purpose after Injury with Award-Winning Rehab Counsellor Chantelle Wood

Episode Transcript
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Sam Miklos (00:00):
Welcome to it Takes Heart.
I'm Kate and I'm Sam, and wecan't wait to share more
incredible stories of healthcareprofessionals making an impact
across Australia.

Chantelle Wood (00:08):
A big part of my sessions, and what I'd like to
think of myself as a counselloris that I'm there for all
aspects.
I'm there to joke about mapswith you, but then I'm also
there to talk about the heavystuff of what are we going to do
now?
Where's life going to take younow, after the injury?
The University of New York hasthree answers yes, not right now
.
Or I have something better instore, and I truly live by that

(00:29):
and I feel like I'm doingexactly what I'm meant to be
doing.

Kate Coomber (00:37):
We acknowledge the traditional custodians of the
land of which we meet who, forcenturies, have shared ancient
methods of healing and cared fortheir communities.
We pay our respects to elders,past and present.

Sam Miklos (00:53):
So today we are diving into the world of
occupational rehabilitation withChantelle Wood.
She's the founder and directorof Restorative, a boutique
rehabilitation consultingpractice that is transforming
the way we approach work-relatedinjuries and return to work
support.
Chantelle has nearly a decadeof experience delivering
outstanding rehab outcomes andin 2024 was named the Australian

(01:15):
Rehabilitation Councillor ofthe Year at the Allied Health
Awards for an incredibleachievement.
We can't wait to learn moreabout her journey, her
philosophy and the innovativeapproaches she uses to support
recovery and return to work.
Welcome to it Takes Heart.

Thank you so much.
I'm so grateful to be here.

Sam Miklos (01:31):
It's really good to have you as an OT for five
minutes.
I did a placement in OCH Rehab.
I still remember it doingfunctional capacity evaluations
functional capacity assessmentevaluation, yes, but the world
of OCH Rehab is a bit of anenigma it is.
It's not very well understood.
I think when you caught up withKate, you even mentioned that
at the Allied Health Awards.

(01:52):
I don't even think anyone knewwhat the award like, what it is
that I was getting an award for.

Yes.

Sam Miklos (01:57):
The extra category.
So let's start with what?

is OCHREHAB, but then where does the role of
rehab counsellor that you feelfit in there as well?
Yes, well, occupational rehabis such a specialised field, so
it's really a space thatintegrates people back into work
or life and their communityafter going through an injury,
illness or essentially having adisability.
So it's really there for thehard times.
I listened to a podcastrecently, actually, that said

(02:27):
that just because some storiesare harder to listen to doesn't
mean that they shouldn't beheard, and I feel like that
really says what occupationalrehabilitation is.
You know health professionalsthat work in this specialised
area.
We meet our clients after thefact.
We meet them after something'shappened.
We meet them after the big badevent.
So it's so important to heartheir stories and then work out

(02:48):
a plan with them In terms ofwhere rehabilitation counsellors
fit in.
So we are a specialised groupof counsellors and we really are
there for integrating them ifthey can't go back to what they
were doing.
So if, for instance, a nursecan't return back to nursing and
needs to be able to work out adifferent vocational career
direction, rehabilitationcounsellors are really there to

(03:11):
walk alongside you and help younot only adjust to the injury
but also work out where you'regonna go from there.

Sam Miklos (03:17):
And how does someone find your service Like when you
say we get you after the effect?

Good question.
So occupational rehabilitationand rehab counsellors when you
have an injury at work, let'ssay, or even an injury in life,
and you have life insurance, youare entitled to access
rehabilitation to help you aspart of your journey.
So normally it's through GPsgetting referrals or other
health professionals, or throughinsurance.

(03:42):
There's a lot of differentaspects in a lot of ways, but
it's a space where it's reallysomething that you don't get
unless you ask for it I wasabout to say because I imagine
if you went to the GP, probablythe first thing is that physical
.

You need a physio, you know whatever that first
strain might be.
Yeah, is there enough education, even within the healthcare
industry?

I definitely not .
You know some beautiful GPsthat I know across Australia.
They understand the value ofrehabilitation counsellors and
the difference we can make andthey'll create, happen that
space.
But a lot of them are reallyfocused on, you know, the
immediate.
You know early interventionwith physio or some of those
other types of treatments.
But if it becomes apparent thatsomeone isn't going to plan or

(04:23):
the treatment modalities aren'tnecessarily working, having that
adjustment and being able topivot and look at, okay, well,
what else can we focus on forthis person.
That's where Ock Rehab reallydoes come in and it's something
that people are entitled toaccess.
But a lot of the time employers, you know, don't realise that
either.
They won't understand.
They can have someone externalwho's helping their employee

(04:43):
return.
So it's really being able tohave that education, I think, is
a big point.

Sam Miklos (04:47):
And how long would someone access your service Like
?

could it be a short period, up to a couple of
years?
Is it really the counsellingcomponent?
And yeah, like, what's theactual process?
How do you unpack and start tofinish line?

Yes, it's very much one that, like I mentioned
before, that when I meet myclients it's after that
something has happened.
So it's really kind of meetingthem where they're at at that
point and if that's the pointwhere they still want to return
to their previous vocation ortheir career, that is the shared
goal that you co-create and youwork out a plan with them as
part of their multidisciplinarytreating team which is what Ock

(05:25):
Rehab is part of a big team tobe able to make that happen for
that person.
However, there's also a powerin being able to acknowledge if
that's not going to happen forthat person and being able to
start gently through differentinterventions, helping them have
that realisation on their ownand lead them towards the idea
of a shift and a transition andworking out what that could look

(05:46):
like.
With some of my clients that,you know, is a big change for
them if they're in their youknow, 40s and 50s and they've
only ever been one particularjob and they can't do that again
, and the training team havesaid that.
You know you're really holdingspace for how painful that is,
that loss of identity.

Absolutely, and then do you have to do a lot of
research around what could benext for them yes.
What's the vocation now?

Yes.
So you would do an assessmentwith them and a lot of
vocational counselling to reallyexplore what their skills are.
So a lot of people havetransferable skills that they
haven't even thought of,particularly like busy mums
working with them.
They're able to multitask insuch a know they might not be
able to go back and work in thatparticular job again, but it
doesn't mean that they can't doanything.
So it's really empowering thatyou know work gives people so

(06:31):
much purpose and seeing theirpotential from the beginning is
really important, because a lotof people can't see that,
particularly if they'reexperiencing chronic pain.

And then do you connect with the employers as
well.
Absolutely yes, so I imaginepeople want to do the right
thing, but they don't reallyknow what to do.

Absolutely so.
To be able to have, you know, ablack book of incredibly
supportive employers acrossAustralia has been absolutely
incredible, because a lot ofemployers don't understand and
some employers also don'tunderstand that they can even be
a work trial host, so they canhost someone who is in their
rehab journey and they canactually be part of that story
and help them build thatconfidence.
You know working supernumeraryas well.

(07:10):
While they're within a workers'compensation claim or a
different type of insuranceprocess, they can be a free
resource for them to be able toadd to their team and really
make a big difference.

Sam Miklos (07:21):
I was going to.
You talked earlier about um.
An Ock Rehab team is amultidisciplinary team.
You're a psychologist.
What other professionals cansit within that team?
Because I think there's this umprobably a bit of confusion, I
think, out there about who canbe in Ock Rehab you know, like
do you have to have done it?

yeah, do you?

Sam Miklos (07:40):
have to have become.
You did psychology.
I know in OT we could work.
Yes, who's eligible?
Well, good question.
Or, who forms the team?

Yes, well, good question.
So as a rehab counsellor, it'sreally important to know that
you're one cog in that big team.
So when a client comes to you,they normally have a physio
already involved or an exercisephysiologist or an OT or a
speechy or a whole group andyou're part of that team and
there's such a respect there.
You know, with some beautifulcolleagues that I have in the

(08:10):
industry, that the work thatthey do I couldn't I couldn't do
what I do without them, andthey're brilliant work with our
shared clients.
In terms of who can work in OckRehab, it can be any health
professional.
So if you have a background,you're able to consult on
something.
You have that knowledge, youhave that skill set.
You're able to work within thatspace.
And for a lot of people thatI've worked with, particularly

(08:31):
who are really experienced inthe industry, if they don't want
to do something so hands-onanymore, to be able to be in a
consulting capacity is reallyempowering for them.

That's really interesting.
So that in itself is opening upperhaps a future career for
someone who may have sustainedan injury.
Absolutely, this could actuallybe a really interesting pathway
for them.

And even the flexibility like a lot of the
work that Restorative does is inremote communities and rurally
and for a lot of people that arethere, you know, for
childminding and fitting aroundschool drop off, it's a really
flexible industry as well.
It's a really flexible industryas well so you can really make
it essentially tailored to youand the client and what they
need and kind of book thataround your calendar, which is
an incredible luxury I really amvery grateful for every day.

Sam Miklos (09:13):
Did you go straight into that's?

what I was going to say.
I was like how did you get here?
Because you were psychology yes, yes.

Sam Miklos (09:20):
And then why as well ?

Yes, well, I was actually lucky enough and I
certainly was thinking aboutthat on the way here of when I
first started going into rehaband really wanting to work in
that space.
My mentor, who is an incredibledear friend of mine he's a
clinical psychologist in Perth,his name is Dr Bruce Willett he

(09:45):
was really empowering for me andencouraging to say what
difference I could make in thatparticular area of mental health
.
So that made a really bigdifference for me.
I think you know if I trulythink about why becoming a rehab
counsellor I've got to go backto when I was in primary school.
So my parents bless themenrolled me in like a public
speaking group and in this groupmy speech that I chose was all
about what I'm going to be whenI grow up.

(10:05):
So we explored about 10, 15different types of careers and I
was saying I could be this butthis would be a negative.
I could be this, but that wouldbe a challenge.
And you know there was doctorsin there and firefighters and
vets and nurses and you know Iwanted to be a weather girl on
TV Weather girl on TV.

You're really in for it.

That TV?
Were you pumped to be in thispublic speaking or were you?
Oh my gosh, I was.
I think my parents you knowthey made a massive deal of.
You know how well I would doand I think having that
self-belief, I think, made a bigdifference.
So I think I was probably goingin there with naive confidence.
So I did not win, unfortunately.
The boy that won spoke aboutthe life cycle of a tree.
So that's okay, but when I wasreally exploring that.

Sam Miklos (10:48):
So he must have had some real pizzazz to talk about
the life cycle of a tree.

He did, he did.
But when I was thinking aboutit, you know, a big part of
being a rehab counsellor isworking with people.
When you know you grow up andeveryone asks you you know, what
do you want to be when you growup, what are you going to do?
But I meet people when theyoften can't return to what they
wanted to be when they grow upand to hold them in that space.
That then okay, well, what'ssomething else we can do?
And so oftentimes I'm havingthe same conversations that I

(11:15):
had in that speech that dayabout exploring the pros and
cons of different things topeople and really what they want
to be when they grow up, inthat 2.0 for that next chapter
for them.
So I feel like that's been abig part of my journey of really
understanding that and, yeah,being there for the next phase.

Sam Miklos (11:32):
You know, if you go back to a couple of years back,
a lot of people held that onecareer forever, but I think
these new generations that arecoming through.

There's so many new careers and the 2.0 and 3.0
would definitely help thoseconversations now compared to a
few years back too absolutelyand I think, like over the 10
years I've found people are moreopen to that and I think you
know inoc rehab.
It's really important whenyou're involved in in someone's
case to have that respect of.
If it's clear medically earlyon that they can't return, we

(12:01):
need to start preparing thatperson for that and that's where
that vocational counselling andthat adjustment to injury
counselling really comes in toreally help them have that
realisation and their familiesas well.
You know, if dad's always beensomeone who's worked on a roof
and now he's not going to bedoing that and dad's at home,
you know the whole dynamic inthe family changes as well.
So it's an adjustment foreveryone.

Sam Miklos (12:25):
Did you have to study like once you'd completed
psych, like to move from psychto ochre rehab or from OT to
ochre rehab?
Is there other study that needsto be done?

Yes, so it's quite specialised.
So my background is inpsychological counselling and
then I went on to specialise inrehabilitation.
So there's different coursesyou can do and really focus on
that area.
But I think it really dependsif it's, I think, if it's an OT
that is going to be going intoOCH Rehab, I think it really
depends.
Like there's a lot ofon-the-job training you can do
as well, so it's really quiteaccessible.

(12:52):
So it's something that I thinka lot of people don't realise is
an option to them, but theycertainly could do, you know,
with the skills they alreadyhave.

And even from a rehab counsellor perspective, do
they need to come from a healthbackground or could it be I'm
just thinking about, you know,companies that might have return
to work teams?

sitting within.

Sam Miklos (13:09):
HR, that sort of space.
Good question, is that a goodquestion?

So in my experience I think it's quite
varied, different, like bigemployers that restorative
partners with, like their returnto work coordinators, sometimes
are health professionals butsometimes not.
They have like a HR background.
Or you know local governmentdepartments we work with, they
have more of a HR background too.
So I think it really justdepends, like if your passion is
to help people during somethinghard, that's happening for them

(13:36):
in that hard chapter.
You know it could certainly be,you know, not necessarily a
health professional in thatspace.

Sam Miklos (13:41):
If an internal employer so let's talk about
your award, yeah socongratulations rehab counsellor
of the year.
That's incredible.

I love that there's allied health awards I
want to hear more about thehealth awards, like um, what are
they?
Where are they?
How big were they?
When you win, did you get likea little trophy?
Yeah, yeah, like why did youwin?

yeah, tell us about the awards first?

Sam Miklos (14:04):
yes, because I, because they're not every year.
Sorry, that was a lot ofquestions.
Yeah, I know this and this andthis.

I love it.
It was such an incrediblehonour.
So the Australian Allied HealthAwards are led by the
incredible Serena Jones.
She is an absolute asset andindustry disruptor.
I love her.
She created the awards toreally platform health
professionals because we don'tget enough recognition
particularly in the alliedhealth space.
You know doctors, you know theyget their recognition.

(14:28):
But we need the allied healthprofession.

Sam Miklos (14:31):
It's like a tertiary profession, 100%.

So she created the awards.
There was, I think, about 10 or15 different categories.
It was an incredible night.
It was held at the Star on theGold Coast, which was just
incredible, so luxe, everyonewore like gowns and it was just
so special and was eachspecialty recognised.
Absolutely so.
When each category wasannounced, there was a bit of a
spiel about what that professionis, which was incredibly

(14:56):
beautiful, because you then gotto sit there and be like, oh,
wow, like you know that persondoes that or wow, what an
incredible.
You know, like speeches andhearing, you know exactly what
they do and, again, just thatgroup understanding and
acknowledgement and everyonethat was there was just
incredibly beautiful andwelcoming and just insightful in
terms of their career.
Like there was a lot ofnetworking prior as well, which

(15:17):
made a big difference, and youcan kind of go the night and you
already kind of know everyone.

How did you do that?
How did you do the?

networking prior .
So that is like a night before,so it's like a cocktail evening
for finalists.

Sam Miklos (15:31):
And it was just so beautiful.
Everyone just met and chatted.
What a nice idea.
A lot of professionals areliterally the nicest.
They are.
Always friendly, always open.
Probably too, because they'recollaborating with so many
different areas.
100% and from that.

I was so lucky to meet so many other beautiful
allied health professionals thatnow you know, coming away from
the awards to be able to have,you know, connections like that,
who you trust and that you knoware good at what they do, as we
know, is so hard to find.
It's now led to you know, somany different collaborations
with different cases and youknow, oh, you'd be really good
for this one or like and just beable to work with them and now

(16:02):
on their like every day that youkind of talked about the awards
and it actually comes tofruition.

Sam Miklos (16:06):
It's really beautiful why do you think you
won?

like what do you question?

Sam Miklos (16:10):
what have you done differently?
Good question.

I was thinking about that on the flight over of
how to actually answer that I'dsay from the outset you know it
takes.
I think you know after theawards and just the influx of
referrals has been incredible.
But it takes 10 years to be anovernight success.
I feel that.
I really feel that, me too 13and counting.

(16:36):
I feel like the biggest answer Iwould give to that is that over
the 10 years of being acounsellor, I feel like I've
always treated my clients like aperson before a patient.
So someone will walk in fortheir appointment, you know they
may be worrying about theirparking, they may be worrying
about an argument they had withtheir partner that morning, they
may be thinking about theirchild, you know, and what

(16:57):
they're dealing with at school,like people present in front of
you.
As a holistic human being, youknow an injury is part of their
life and sure, especially ifthey're in pain, it's a big part
of their life.
But to be able to hold spacefor that and how they're
presenting at that very moment,I think is really important and
I think also for me it's reallybeen important to highlight,

(17:20):
when someone is going through ahard time, being that space for
them and not being afraid ofnegative emotional states.
You know you see in the moviesor you know on TV shows.
You know when someone's crying,you know everyone's quick to
run and hold them and give themtissues and you know really try
and make everything feel better.
Sometimes people just need tosit in the yuckiness and just be
sad and just be grieving youknow the life.

Sam Miklos (17:42):
It's hard for the person with the tissues,
Absolutely.

But they don't need you to fix them.

Yeah, they just want to be, and I think a big
part of my sessions and what I'dlike to think of myself as a
counsellor is that I'm there forall aspects.
I'm there to joke about mathswith you, but then I'm also
there to talk about the heavystuff of what are we going to do
now?
Where's life going to take younow, after the injury?

Sam Miklos (18:04):
and to be clear, that was maths, not maths yes,
correct married at first sight.

Not mathematics, definitely not maths.

Sam Miklos (18:12):
In case they come, you get a whole like a lot of
referrals and they're theretrying to joke to you about some
trigonometry.

Let's get back to the feelings.

So can you share with us, like I'd love to hear
um a story or or really thinkingto that person that you really
know you've had impact on andyou know it just must be really
challenging to sit with all ofthose emotions, but so rewarding
to help people through itincredibly so, um, I think

(18:41):
there's been.

You know there's been 10 years of incredible
stories and people movingthrough that harder life chapter
and being where they are now.
A story I think that stuck withme was a number of years ago.
For the sake of the podcast,we'll call her Christine.
She was in Perth and she wasactually involved in a motor

(19:03):
vehicle accident.
So she sustained a traumaticbrain injury from that and she
also sustained orthopedicinjuries of different physical
injuries to the body.
Now, as a result of that,obviously she got referred rehab
and unfortunately, people getreferred occupational rehab a
lot later in their journey.
It's not early on, which isreally hard, and that's
something that really needs tochange I was going to say can

(19:24):
that change?
Yeah, Like the doctors that getit, get it, or the other allied
health professionals get it.
They understand the importanceof that early on.
And how late do you mean?
Oh, so in that particular oneit was about six months to nine
months later.

Sam Miklos (19:37):
Yeah, okay, so much time is lost.

Yeah, massive shift.
So when I first met Christine,she was based at, like, an
assisted living facility.
So I'm not sure if you knowwhat that is, but that's where
they have like 24-7 support.
There's nursing staff there,there's carers there, there's,
you know, a whole team lookingafter them.
And in meeting her it's reallyinteresting because, like as a
rehab counsellor, you take inthe whole person and the whole

(20:00):
context and then what's going onfor this person?
And when I met her we were, youknow, sitting in this facility
and we were chatting and I justthought, wow, like she presents
so well, like her traumaticbrain injury was to the frontal
lobe, so that affected someexecutive functioning, so such
as like attention, but herability to really be present and
she understood a lot what wasgoing on and a lot was going on

(20:22):
around her and a lot of herorthopedic injuries she'd
recovered to a significantextent.
So I just thought, wow, likeshe presents so well.
So a big part of you know, ock,rehab is actually connecting
with family as well andunderstanding what else is going
on for that person in theirworld.
We then had a family meetingand it was really interesting
because in meeting her partnerthere was a big distinction in

(20:47):
the fact that it was encouragedfor her to remain in this
assisted living facility.
It was very much a, you know,he wanted to have more time with
the children.
She then wasn't living there,you know.
Her time with them was reallylimited.
There was a lot of financialbenefit for her being within
this facility and it's reallyinteresting because, taking all
that whole picture in andconnecting with a beautiful
nurse who I will always think ofbeing an angel in that

(21:09):
particular case, being reallytransparent with everything
that's going on in terms ofChristine's life outside of her
injury and outside of thefacility, it was clear that she
presents a lot better and shouldnot be there in that space.
So essentially, long storyshort not be there in that space
.
So essentially long story short.
I worked with Christine and herbeautiful multidisciplinary team
and we got her out of thefacility.

(21:30):
We got her living independently.
She was absolutely thriving.
We got her returning to work,earning her own income again.
Before the accident she wasactually operating machinery.
She got back into doing thatwith a beautiful employer who
we're connected with.
That took a chance on her andknew that she was capable, just
like we did and just like I didfrom that very first meeting and

(21:50):
she was in supervisory rolesand just absolutely excelled.
And that to me the very lasttime I met with Christine
because I'm only involved for achapter in someone's life she
said to me that you know she cannever put into words just how
thankful she was.
And I said to her that you knowyou thriving is all the thanks
that I need and that I'm so gladthat we met and I'm so glad you

(22:14):
felt safe to share everythinggoing on in your world Because I
have no question you know,different people that were in
her life didn't believe she wascapable.
I did, and that's what I'mthere to do.
And the fact that she wasthriving and the fact that I
could walk away knowing that shewas doing so well, that's my
why.

Sam Miklos (22:32):
That must be really tough when you can see she's
capable.
But the people in her lifedon't.
They're not ready for that nextchange right?

Absolutely, because I imagine they've
adjusted already and I don'tthink anyone can just imagine
the situation.

but yeah, to change again was obviously too
much 100% and I think you knowit's important to look at.
You know someone and thecontext around them and you know
what life was like before theinjury or the illness or
something happened.
A lot of family dynamics mayhave been challenging beforehand
and the role of a supportperson for someone I truly

(23:10):
believe should be the role ofsupporting what they want and
being right there for them andoftentimes it's really important
in Ock Rehab and as a rehabcounsellor to acknowledge when
that's not happening.
It's that real advocacy pieceyeah, which isn't easy.
Yeah, I imagine you come upagainst a lot of roadblocks
absolutely, and a lot of doctors, a lot of specialists, a lot of

(23:31):
employers all different aspectsof someone's life, you know are
really hesitant to change and Ithink I'd like to think of
myself as someone who's there tomake change.
You know, I'm not just there tojust not do anything with that
person.
We're actually going to gosomewhere and again, we work
that out together, we co-createthat together.

And there's such a huge impact oh sorry, no, no go
.
I was just going to say of likethis is such a positive impact
for everyone you know,economically, for them,
emotionally, like there's somany wins here.

Yeah, to get people to that place yeah, it's
such a privilege and I'm sograteful every day that I'm I'm
doing what I'm doing like I'm.
It's just an incredible honorto be there with someone that
resistance from employers, youknow with capacity and you've
talked a few times about a fewamazing employers.

Sam Miklos (24:19):
Um, what would you say to those employers that are
a little bit hesitant to returnpeople to work, and how do you
bring them on the journey andturn them into your black book
of?
Fabulous employers because, Ithink there'd be such a lack of
awareness and understandingabsolutely I would say good
question, actually really goodquestion.

I would say that thank you.

Sam Miklos (24:40):
I'm literally the thought of that one myself, and
I did have two coffees today, sostrap in.

I would say the role of the employer is so
critical they can really make orbreak, I think, someone's
return, particularly if theyhave a disability or an injury
that's permanent, that they areadjusting themselves to that and
then what they can bring to aworkplace.
I think it's important foremployers to know.
Firstly, you know Safe WorkAustralia have indicated that

(25:08):
you know the percentage ofpeople that even have
psychological injuries now thatI work a lot in has gone up 97%
in the 10 years 97%.
So being open to someonereturning to work that is going
through psychological stress,not just physical injuries, is
really important too, and beingthat creative, safe space for
them.
Another part I would say is youknow being really proactive

(25:30):
that there is such an untouchedworkforce there that have so
many skills and that may have aninjury that does recover in six
months or three months, thatthey are someone that can really
add a lot of value to yourbusiness and that even if they
do actually have an employeethat has had an injury at work,
for instance, understanding theimportance of early intervention
, so getting occupationalrehabilitation involved ASAP,

(25:54):
you know, connecting them with arehab counsellor, connecting
them with people that are goingto be really on board with
support Because, remembering,when someone has an injury or an
illness or something happens,they go to the doctor and you go
to the doctor for a doctor'snote, right, you go in and you
walk in and you say what'snegative and what's not going
well for that person.
But the importance of rehab isto really acknowledge wow, like
you know, this is actually goingreally well, or this has gone

(26:16):
great at home and this has gonegreat at work, and that really
does change the whole frameworkof a medical case conference and
a doctor's visit, becausepeople are then understanding oh
, wow, actually I did quite wellthis month, or I achieved this
this month, and employersobviously aren't going to be
part of that.
You know, people's health is soprivate and so confidential.
So being able to have a healthprofessional who's there guiding

(26:37):
that person through it, butalso supporting a return to work
, is really critical as well, sothat they can just remain the
supportive employer that theyneed to be.

Sam Miklos (26:45):
What about with the new laws that have come in
around psychological safety inthe workplace?
Has that led to an increase inwork for you in terms of mental
health presentations?
So not just your traumaticmotor vehicle accident, or are
we seeing that yet?

Good question.
I think there's certainly moreawareness of mental health.
You know, particularly fromsocial media, which is wonderful
, and I think people areunderstanding.
You know what workplace stressis and the impact it can have.
You know and you know the jokeon Instagram is you know you get
your Sunday sads that comearound, but if that's happening
for you every week and thatyou're not wanting to go into
that job and you're dreadingMonday morning coming around

(27:25):
like things can be different.
So I feel like there has beenan increase in awareness, which
obviously then results in anincrease in people needing to
have time off.
We've also had a verytumultuous last five years in
Australia and the world, sopeople's resilience is a lot
lower.
So I think there's certainlybeen, as I said, evidence to
show there's been an increase inpsychological injuries because

(27:47):
people Do those injuries findtheir way that you often have?
Yes, sometimes.
Yes, I think it depends.
Like I said, I think if youhave a supportive employer or an
educated doctor or a whole teamaround that person who
understands the value of they'reentitled to have support
involved from the day that theinjury happens, that makes a

(28:08):
massive difference Because, yeah, it's definitely led to an
increase, which, again, isreally hard because people's
psychological health is sopivotal and that changes who
they are as a whole person.

Sam Miklos (28:18):
Is there work you think that could be done around
that mental health crisis?

I think that there's a lot of work that can
be done.
I think certainly being able toassist in counsellors being
under Medicare and being able tobe subsidised in addition to
psychologists, would make amassive difference.

And so just to clarify, so if you need to see a
psychologist, there's Medicarethere to support you, correct.
But if you chose to see acounsellor, there isn't.

There is not.
So it's not the same level ofaccessibility for people and the
wait time is so astronomicalthat it's so hard and people are
suffering.
People are absolutely suffering, whereas Medicare you know it
depends Like some private healthfunds they do fund counselling
and they understand the value ofthat.
I think it just really depends.
Also, you know, employerstypically offer like an employee

(29:07):
assistance program and that canbe through their counselling
team that they have.
You can also choose to be ableto have your own counsellor
added as your employee assistant.
So there's a lot there that canbe done.
The people just don't know whatthey can change.

Sam Miklos (29:18):
What's the difference between a counsellor
and a psychologist?
Good, question.

I reckon a lot of people, yeah, and when you go
, well, one's getting.

Sam Miklos (29:25):
Medicare, one's not.

Yes, good question.
And again, you know I certainlyyou know value incredibly highly
the beautiful psychologists andclinical psychologists that I
work with.
I think it's very different, youknow, when you picture a
psychologist, like in the movies, where you know you sit across
from them in a consulting roomand they're going to provide
that really evidence-basedtreatment, which is incredible.
Counsellors can also do thatand rehab counsellors can also

(29:50):
be there on a practical sense.
So being there in the workplacewith you in a meeting that
you're struggling with or you'redreading to go to with your HR
or with your employer, that youknow is really stressing you out
.
Rehab counsellors can be therefor that day-to-day as well.
Rehab counsellors are tertiaryeducated, so there's certainly
that background and thatspecialisation there too, and

(30:11):
the training in cognitivebehaviour therapy.
You know I'm trained in thatand so are all the other rehab
counsellors that I know and Iwork with, and other counsellors
too.
So I think it's a reallyblurred line, but I think it's
really important for people toknow that there's other mental
health services they can access,that's not just a psychologist.

So it might be really that education of our
doctors and our healthcareprofessionals who are in that
referring seat to have biggerunderstanding maybe in some
cases I think it's quite similar.
Because, yeah, the wait timesare huge.

Absolutely, and it's quite similar in the
physical therapy space that somebeautiful physios I work with.
They certainly have incrediblevalue, Same as an exercise
physiologist you know differentso again, like you know, they
just add different types ofskill sets that make a
difference for someone andsomeone needs holistic support,
Like I work in partnership withbeautiful psychologists, like
working on someone's case andthat they're going to work on

(31:04):
particular things with thatperson and I'm going to work on
something different.
And you just come together as abig team.

Sam Miklos (31:09):
So tell us about your business.
Yes, how long, when did youstart it and why?

Yes good question You're clearly very passionate,
thank you.

Sam Miklos (31:16):
And what are you doing differently?

Thank you, and what are you doing differently?
Thank you so much.
I started restorative in 2021.
And, thinking about my why toget people through harder life
chapters and work out who is meafter injury, I feel like
there's one story that I wantedto share that kind of really
resonates with me and kind ofbefore I started restorative,
way back when a few years ago, anumber of years ago now as to

(31:38):
what kind of led me to think Ineed to help more people like
I'm just not doing enough.
So I was working, obviously, asa rehab counsellor, and I was
connected with an employer andwe were supporting someone in
their return to work.
So, for the sake of the story,we'll call her Bonnie.
Now, bonnie and I had met anumber of times before that.
We were going to meet at herworkplace and kind of plan that

(32:00):
transition, how we're going toget her really supported and
really held and feeling reallygood about coming back to work.
So I met her downstairs, as Ialways do with my clients,
because they deserve to be metexactly where they're at.
I am right there with them fromthe second I walk in that door.
I am by their side.
So we met outside and we went upin the elevator because for her
fatigue it wasn't an option togo up the stairs.

(32:20):
We went up in the elevatortogether and I remember in the
mirrored part of the elevatorglass that she was fixing her
headscarf.
So Bonnie had breast cancer andso she was living with cancer
and she was returning to work,which is another big area of voc
rehab, of people that have, youknow, illnesses, that they
still need to work, know theystill have a mortgage, they

(32:41):
still have to look after theirfamilies that you still gotta do
it.
Life doesn't stop correct.
So we walked inside, made her aherbal tea, as she couldn't be
drinking coffee at the time, andwe were chatting and a lot of
our session that day focused onswiping on her phone different
types of wigs and what we'regoing to be choosing and what's
going to make her feel the mostcomfortable and the most like

(33:02):
her before cancer happened, andhow she was going to return to
work in that retail role and beas comfortable as possible.
And it was just so beautifuland just seeing how like clear
she was and that, what shewanted to choose, and how she
felt really empowered andfeeling good.
And you know, we had theappointment coming up, so we're
going to kind of put the plan tothem and say what we're going
to be doing.
And then she left and then it'sinteresting.

(33:25):
You know rehab and particularlyas a rehab counsellor, you see
the whole picture of the wholesituation, which sometimes is a
blessing but sometimes it's acurse.
So when Bonnie left, thesupervisor was meant to be
joining us.
So when Bonnie left, thesupervisor was meant to be
joining us, which did not happen.
And the supervisor pulls measide when I went back upstairs
and says to me that reallyChantel, like should Bonnie be

(33:46):
coming back to work?
Like she's going to make peoplefeel uncomfortable, yeah, in
terms of her health condition.
And you know, when I spoke aboutwhat we talked about, whether
that was actually a good use ofmy time was the question.
I was asked whether that was agood use of my time and you best

(34:09):
believe I sat there and Ireminded them that as a
wholehearted hand on my heart,yes, that was an incredibly good
use of my time.
Yes, that was an incrediblygood use of my time and I
educated them about the fact ofpeople returning to work in all
different aspects of theirhealth and their role as a
supportive employer to be thatand I share that story because
it's such a privilege to bethere and to be that shield,

(34:32):
oftentimes for my clients with adifficult employer.
And we then had the specialistappointment as planned days
later and you know, justincredibly so she just managed
to come back to work and be in abeautiful supervisory role
because I made sure whatever weneeded on that certificate we
got, and she trusted me and Itook that seriously and that you

(34:53):
know, if that was in adifferent department to where
that supervisor was go figure.
Who would have predicted thatwould?

Sam Miklos (34:58):
have happened, who would have?

thought who would have?

advised happened , yeah.
So for me, it's an incredibleprivilege to be part of that um
and I think that yeah is reallywhat I'd like to think is one of
the many thousands of momentsin the 10 years that led to me
creating restorative in in 2021,that I just thought I need to
help more people like I, need tohave more of a reach and now to

(35:21):
be, you know, running abusiness that's across Australia
with my beautiful team, which Ihave to mention.
Yeah, how big is your team?

Sam Miklos (35:26):
and what skill sets?
Yeah, good question.

So we've got, like OTs, lots of different
allied health.
We've got exercisephysiologists, we've got social
workers who are very close to myheart.
I love social workers andreally just quite holistically
being able to look afterdifferent people in all
different phases of wherethey're at, because you know, if
I can't help you, I cancertainly connect you with
someone you know that can in myteam or outside of restorative.

(35:48):
It's been an incredible honourwith that.
But I think, yeah, what we dodifferently is really meet that
person where they're at andreally support them with where
they're going to be going,because you're only involved and
I keep stressing this for ashort time.
You know, and that's as itshould be.
You know, sometimes you seepeople you know years on end to

(36:09):
be going to treatment thatthey're still in that chapter
and they're still stuck in it.
But I think it's reallyimportant early on that and I
say this to my clients that youknow one day I'm going to be
finished and you're going toknow and you're going to know
that it feels right.
And I say this to my clientsthat you know one day I'm gonna
be finished and you're gonnaknow and you're gonna know that
it feels right, and I'm gonna beused to you coming in and
telling me about the hard thingsand I might not know in that
moment, but every day I'mworking for that day, for you to

(36:30):
be excelling and you to bethriving.
And you know I have so manybeautiful cards on my desk next
to my trophy, but the cards areat the front.
The cards are at the front thatreally to me, say exactly what
the clients mean.

How do you look after yourself?
Because I imagine they talkabout compassion fatigue in many
roles and vocations, especiallybeing that shield.
Yeah, and you are taking on somuch of everyone else because we
can see how passionate you areand how much you love it.
Yes, but how do you also makesure that?

(37:07):
Good question.

I would say again, it's cliche but it's so
true.
I would say self-care, but notjust in the sense of a bubble
bath or disconnecting fromsocial media.
Like I've been incrediblyblessed to be able to, you know,
go on a women's businessretreat last year with Lorraine
Murphy she's incredible andClaire Obeid.
That for me was my moment of myself-care and that reconnection

(37:34):
and business planning and beingable to have that space.
So I would say in terms of,yeah, there is compassion,
fatigue that a lot of healthprofessionals go through because
you are there and you are that,as we said, the shield, you're
their protection.
But I think it's reallyimportant to go back to your why
and I was just saying to one ofmy beautiful OTs that I know in
the industry in Perth the otherday that it's important to do

(37:57):
the clients and the cases andthe work that really aligns with
you.
You know I'm really particular,like with particular clients.
If I see that it's not going toalign or it's not, I'm not
exactly what they need.
They need a different type ofcounsellor or they need, you
know, someone who has adifferent type of personality.
That's okay.
Like that's you being a goodhealth professional of
recognising oh, like I don'tthink I'm going to be able to

(38:18):
help this person and actuallytaking that step back, you know,
and I think that's a really big, important decision you need to
make.
So also, I think the clichegoes, but it's true, saying no
is the most powerful magneticword you can do.
So I've really yeah, I've beenso lucky to build Restorative,
to be so aligned.

You talked about the businesses being hosts of.
You know for people to comeback to work.
Yes, do you?
Are you looking for businesses?

Oh always.
How do you go about that?
Is that something that?

people.

Sam Miklos (38:49):
How do you go about?

that.
Is that something that people?
How do you fill the black bookof businesses?
Good question Can businessesout there go?
We'd love to do that,absolutely yes 100%, absolutely.

And again, because restorative look after
clients across Australia andparticularly in rural areas as
well.
There's certainly not enougheducation there on that being
available too.
So if there's any employersthat are open to you know a
placement with someone you knowthat is supernumerary, who can
be an incredible asset to yourteam, I'm always happy to chat
and to see how it could work.

(39:15):
You know we have so manyincredibly skilled clients.
You know workers that would beincredible in different teams
and just need to be given achance.
But people see you know theinjury before they see the
person.
So I'm really working hard toreframe that.
But yeah, I think it justdepends Again, in the industry
for so long you really getfamiliar with the really
incredibly supportive employers.
You know some of the bigsupermarkets, you know all those

(39:36):
types of things, but I think itreally makes a big difference
when it's like a mum and dadteam as well and they can have
someone there who is skilled andoftentimes, to be honest, they
lead to a job because theyrealize this person that's been
there for 12 weeks is so goodyeah and that they want to keep
them, and what an incredibleaccomplishment for that person
as well.

Sam Miklos (39:54):
You said about.
You know that you often capturepeople a couple of months down
the line.
But, what advice would you giveto someone who's just sustained
a life-changing injury?

You know.

Sam Miklos (40:06):
What do you wish you could say to them up front Good
question.

I was thinking yeah, it's so powerful, I think
and just to be able to say tothem exactly that I understand
how much life has changed foryou in this moment and that
right now it doesn't feel likelife's going to get any better.
But I'm here to tell you thatit's temporary.
But, if I may, I would alsolike you to visualize something.

(40:32):
Okay, I want you to pictureyourself on the edge of a forest
and you're walking towards theforest and there's like a
beautiful, cool breeze on yourface and you feel safe and you
feel you're just walking,walking ahead, and you see, in
the distance there's thisbeautiful fire that's burning
and it's warm and you can feelit on your skin and you can hear
people talking and laughing andeveryone's happy and you keep

(40:55):
walking through this forest andyou get to the edge of where the
campsite is and you see, youknow the beautiful fire and you
see, in this campsite there'sall these past versions of you.
So there's you there fromchildhood, there's you there in
high school, there's you therewith your first job, there's you
there in all those importantmilestones in your life and that

(41:15):
everyone's staying there andthey're so happy to see you and
you come over and you walk inand everyone's giving you a hug
and everyone's just so excitedand everyone's just telling you
and so excited to hear what'shappened and you, you share.
You know that this is right nowsomething bad's happened, like
something bad, like this is notwhat I planned.
And they're saying to you it'sokay, you know, look, you got

(41:36):
through this hard thing, butremember, this happened.
We got through this.
And there's all these differentversions of you that are
cheering you on and you staythere for a while and you chat
with them and you feel likeyou're held by all these past
versions of you.
And then the sun's coming upand you start to walk away from
the forest and you can hearpeople are still chatting and
people are still happy.
And then on the edge of theforest, I'm standing there and

(41:57):
I'm waiting for you and I'm likelet's go, let's plan, let's
plan what we're going to do.
Now I'm right here alongsideyou, side you, and we walk away
and we actually make that planhappen so that we can remind you
of all the things that the pastversions of you said.
That it's far more powerfulthan any advice I'm ever going
to give you as your therapist.

Sam Miklos (42:18):
I literally could cry.

That is so beautiful and I think a lot of
people listening will get somuch just from that and I think
that speaks volumes of the sortof counselling that you provide
and the sort of care that yougive to every single person that
you spend time with, to behonest or treat.
What do you think as anindustry needs to be done?

(42:40):
Good question, that's actually.
That's a big question in youknow.
Is it education?
Where do we need to start?
What does the after rehabindustry?

Sam Miklos (42:53):
need.

Oh, good question.
I feel like I'm one part ofthat wheel and I'm sure every
health professional would have adifferent perspective of what
needs to change.
As a rehab counsellor, I wouldsay that, again, I'm very lucky

(43:19):
to have a beautiful you know,not just a black book of
employers, but a black book ofincredible treatment providers,
incredible physios that I'veworked with over the years,
incredible OTs, people that wework together and collaborate.
I think there needs to be thatcollaboration.
You know the multidisciplinaryteam meetings acknowledging
everyone's role and everyone'slane and how we're all working
towards the same goal.
In terms of what needs to change, I feel like there needs to be
more early intervention.
You know when someone hassomething that happens at work,
you know being able to talk to aspecialised counsellor, like a
rehab counsellor, who canactually help plan of how

(43:41):
they're going to return.
What are you going to say inthat workplace meeting when you
go back, when you're meetingwith HR and you're panicking,
what are you going to do in thatmoment?
Being able to have that extrasupport would be really good and
there to be more knowledgeabout that.
And, again, I think GPs arereally understanding the value
of that already and I'vecertainly seen that shift over
the years but, like what we saidbefore, with the rise of
psychological injuries, it'sreally important to bring that

(44:03):
to the forefront and people tohave that knowledge that
sometimes workplace stress isnot just workplace stress.
Sometimes there's a lot moregoing on for someone and you
know there's a lot of measuresthat we, you know, can assess as
counsellors and can work withyou and can really make that
determination of whether you'rejust experiencing workplace
stress or whether there is, youknow, a lot more going on in
terms of depression or anxietyand then how we're going to

(44:26):
shift that, because work needsto be something that you feel
good about.
Like what I said before, ifyou're having a sunday sads
every week, we can change that.
It doesn't need to be that hardyeah, it's really interesting,
isn't it?

I think it's.
It seems so niche, however sowidespread and needed you know I
think about people I know havehad injuries, who certainly
haven't had this support.

And.

I'm just questioning why?
How do we not know Absolutely?
Why are they just left outtrying to navigate what to do
next?
Absolutely, and then all thefamily are gathering around
going.
Well, we don't really know whatto do either.

And the families are so critical in that you
know the amount of times youknow a lot of referral
restorative receives actually isfrom you know beautiful family
members and that they say youknow my mum's had an injury or
you know dad hasn't been at worknow for six months.
Like what do we do?
And particularly if they're notcovered under workers'
compensation?
And this is just an injury thathappens in life you know, like
a slip trip or a fall.
There needs to be someone thatworks with them, and you know,

(45:29):
that's why their primary healthhealth provider.
Their GP is really critical.
But oftentimes everyone thinksabout the physical right so
quickly go see a physio andlet's get you better.
But if getting you better isnot going to be the end result,
like you're not going tocompletely recover, we need to
have a contingency for that.
So I agree, it's such a spacewhere you meet people, as I said
, after the big bad thing, and Ithink a lot of that is spent

(45:50):
stabilising them and trying toget them to move forward.

Sam Miklos (45:52):
That's an interesting point, though.
People can find you not justthrough like a work of acclaim
Absolutely.
It might be that someone'sactually just reaches out to
your business directly.
Absolutely, you don't need tobe referred, so to speak.

Correct.
So Restorative Equ boutiquethat we work with a lot of local
governments and insurers andsome of the big employers in
Australia and we look aftertheir team members when
something bad happens at work.
But a lot of certainly, what Ispecialize in is in that motor
vehicle accident space as well.
But in addition to that, yes,if something generally happens
in life and you're not coveredunder life insurance and you're

(46:29):
not able to have any form ofincome coming in but you need to
do some type of work and youhave no idea what that would be,
that's where I come in andthat's where I help you and we
work that out together.

I love that, so we're going to make a donation.

Sam Miklos (46:42):
Cmr making a donation with every episode.

Where can we make a donation for you today?
Good question.

I would love to share a little story, if I may,
as to where and as to why.
So I would love a donation togo to Solaris Cancer Care.
So they are a beautiful,beautiful, beautiful charity
that's based in WA and the storyis this that I was in Solaris,

(47:09):
I was visiting there a few yearsago now a couple of years ago
now and they provide incredibleholistic services for people
that are going through cancertreatment.
So, whether that be massages oreven just a cup of tea and a
biscuit, they provideacupuncture all different types
of modalities counselling.
They do it all there.
Acupuncture all different typesof modalities counselling.

(47:30):
They do it all there For reallyjust something that's a nice
moment away from cancer andsomething that's actually just
really special being in there.
And yeah, when I was in there acouple of years ago, there was a
lady that came in and she wasstanding at the front desk and
I'll never forget it, and shewas obviously undergoing cancer
treatment and she was wearingwell, she would have been
wearing a cold cap.

(47:51):
So I'm not sure if you're awareof what that is, which is a
blessing.
The cold cap is what peoplewear when they want to keep
their hair, when you're goingthrough chemotherapy.
Obviously, the cold cap hadworked in some parts, but in
some parts, you know, she hadsignificant hair loss and you
could see that her hair was, youknow, quite long before all
this happened.
You know she had significanthair loss and you could see that
her hair was, you know, quitelong before all this happened.
And she was staying there andshe was, you know, really
excited because in that tin ofthe biscuits they had that week

(48:13):
the really fancy yarn it's one.

Sam Miklos (48:14):
You know they had the short thread, they had the
monte carlo cream.

Yeah, they had all the good stuff this week
absolutely and she was excitedfor that because last week, you
know, it wasn't an optionbecause, again, solaris are just
led by donations as a charityto have that space.
And she was standing there andshe wanted to book in for a
massage and she wanted to kindof time it that it was going to
be around her treatment becausethe last thing she wanted to do
was to come into the hospitalagain.
And she was standing there andshe was working it out and the

(48:39):
beautiful, beautiful people thatwork there, they're absolute
angels on earth and the lady washelping her work out when she
could get in and because there'ssuch a wait time, it was going
to be, you know, months away interms of her appointment and she
was quite disappointed.
I remember like hearing herintonation change in her voice
and she was a bit sad that itwas going to be a bit further
away but her treatment was goingto be going on for a while.

(49:01):
So she was, you know, she wasstill going to book and I'm just
getting a bit emotional.
She was giving her name to thereceptionist that was standing
there and she's like, oh, youknow, it's Diana.
You know, just like theprincess and my heart, like in
that moment I just thought likethere needs to be like more
spaces and places just like thisthat is holding someone through

(49:24):
the really hard moments andjust has a cuppa and just to be
there with that person.
And it's not all medicalised,you know, it's just that moment.
So if there's anything yes,anyone can take from this
episode don't listen to me, justdonate to Solaris, because
donate it for people just likeDiana, just like the princess,
to give them that moment andthat space.

Sam Miklos (49:43):
Chantelle, you are incredible.
Honestly, thank you.
You are just.
You know, they say you'd neverwork a day if you do what you
love.
Oh, 100% you are so passionateabout an area that is just so
unknown.
And I think you know, even asan OT here at Macro Rehab, it
always just seems like a bit ofconsulting on the side.
But when you actually hear yourstories there will be so many
people that will hear this andthink oh that is just such an

(50:10):
incredible profession to work init is, and how lucky your
patients are to work with youand clients.
I think it's amazing.

I'm the lucky one, it's a privilege to be
there and that I just, yeah,it's an incredible honour.
And you know the saying goes,and I truly believe it the
universe only ever has threeanswers for you.
This was in Samantha Will'sbook, which is my absolute.
I love her.
The Universe on the Earth hasthree answers yes, not right now
, or I have something better instore, and I truly live by that

(50:36):
and I feel like I'm doingexactly what I meant to be doing
and I am absolutely.
It's an incredible privilege tobe there with my patients, for
them, and, yeah, what an honour.
And thank you for today.
I've absolutely loved it.

It's been so nice to play a part in it.
Thank you for coming in.

Sam Miklos (50:48):
Thank you so lucky to have you in Brisbane.
Yeah, shout out to Restorativebased in Perth.

Based in Perth, but across Australia, but across
Australia.

Sam Miklos (50:55):
So absolutely, but thank you so much for your time.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for tuning in to itTakes Heart.

If you love, review or share it with a friend
, and if you know someone with agreat story in healthcare, get
in touch.
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