June 10, 2025 • 37 mins
What drives a doctor to leave the safety of private practice and instead offer care inside prisons and homeless shelters? For Dr Juergen Landmann, it all started with a simple mindset: “Why not?” In this powerful conversation, Juergen shares how burnout led him to rethink the way he worked and opened the door to a more energising, purpose-led path.
Now splitting his time between general practice, correctional facilities, and Emmanuel City Mission, Juergen’s work is rooted in connection, trust, and consistency. He speaks openly about the realities of working with people who’ve experienced deep stigma - those sleeping rough, cycling in and out of prison, or simply falling through the cracks of traditional care. With each story, he shows how showing up, again and again, can create lasting change.
This episode is for you if you’ve ever wondered what it means to do work that truly matters, if you’re curious about alternative ways to practise medicine, or if you’re passionate about reaching the people who need care most.
It Takes Heart is hosted by cmr CEO Sam Miklos, alongside Head of Talent and Employer Branding, Kate Coomber.
We Care; Music by Waveney Yasso
More about Juergen's Organisations of Choice, Emmanuel City Mission
Emmanuel City Mission is a daytime sanctuary in South Brisbane that provides a safe, welcoming space for people experiencing homelessness. Open seven days a week, the mission offers meals, facilities, and genuine connection to those doing it tough.
You can find out more about the Vinnies CEO Sleepout here.
Get to know cmr better!
Follow @ittakesheartpodcast on Instagram, @cmr | Cornerstone Medical Recruitment on Linked In, @cornerstonemedicalrec on TikTok and @CornerstoneMedicalRecruitment on Facebook.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sam Miklos (00:00):
There's a cost to caring, especially when you're
constantly faced with the rawestparts of humanity, but for some
, that cost is also what givestheir work meaning I pretend
that I completely switch off,but I don't.
Dr Juergen Landmann (00:11):
Even though I'm dealing with the most
traumatic things, oftenespecially on the streets of
South Brisbane, and they'rereally tough days and people are
revealing to me things, youknow, shocking things, which I
often haven't told another soul.
I leave that place energisedbecause you know that your
little interventions you haven'tfixed problems, that you've
made a difference.
Sam Miklos (00:31):
This is a conversation about burnout
boundaries and the quiet powerof showing up over and over
again, even when no one elsedoes.
Kate Coomber (00:39):
If you want to continue to hear about real
people making an impact, thenhit follow or subscribe.
It's the best way to supportthe show and make sure that you
never miss an episode.
Sam Miklos (00:55):
Today we're super excited to have Dr Juergen
Landmann with us.
He's a local GP who is proofthat choosing a career in
general practice can really openup some wonderful opportunities
.
Juergen currently holds severalroles he's a community GP, a
doctor for the homeless, andalso works in a correctional
facility and in COVID he evenset up a home clinic to give
jabs to frontline healthcareworkers.
(01:17):
Fun fact, or maybe aninteresting fact, is that
Juergen has treated both Kateand my families at various times
over the last few years.
We've got loads to talk about,but none of that is going to be
our medical history.
We're just going to keep it.
We're going to talk about you,so welcome today, Juergen, to it
Takes Heart.
Dr Juergen Landmann (01:31):
Oh, thanks very much, guys, for joining us
Welcome.
Sam Miklos (01:34):
So this is a big role flip for us, because
usually we would be sitting in aclinic with a whole bunch of
kids on our lap different to benot looking like this.
I'm I'm the parent that keepsall of the health care things
for the weekend and then go andfind an appointment so by then.
It's a bit too far gone usually.
But anyway, I've always saidthat whenever we go and see you,
you're always talking about allof the different roles that you
(01:55):
hold.
You always kind of drop in abit about Emmanuel City a or
Mission at at the prisons orout at the university, but we've
never actually we don't want totalk about all of these
opportunities.
And today came with Kate and Italking about the CEO sleepout
that I'll be doing this year.
So before we get into all ofthat, tell us about you, like
where did you grow up and didyou always want to be a GP?
Dr Juergen Landmann (02:17):
Yeah, look, I suppose the concept of being
a doctor and being a GP wasalways there, but I never really
thought too much about it.
I grew up in Warwick, which isa rural area.
Yeah, no, my dad was aschoolteacher so we went out to
Warwick and I'd been my primaryschooling there before moving
(02:37):
back.
So I always had a bit of aninterest in the rural settings
and then came back to Brisbane.
I always wanted to do medicine,but I enjoyed high school a
little bit too much.
Sam Miklos (02:47):
So I ended up.
Dr Juergen Landmann (02:48):
Got into university, ended up, but went
more down the life science routeand did all sorts of things and
effectively had a gap decade.
Kate Coomber (02:56):
Gap decade.
Dr Juergen Landmann (02:58):
Enjoyed every part of it and don't
regret any of it, but then sortof went into.
Always was sort of attracted tothat sort of working with
people and medicine.
So general practice is thelogical profession for me.
What I love about generalpractice is just the absolute
flexibility to do what you wantwhere you want.
(03:20):
And I still remember one of mymentors telling me.
He said, jorgen, you know whatyou need to do to specialise in
general practice.
And I said what's that?
He says you need a good signwriter.
And he says call yourselfwhatever you like, do whatever
you want.
And you know what otherprofession does that.
And you know it's just so.
Yeah, so that's where I grew up.
Sam Miklos (03:39):
And as a general practice.
Dr Juergen Landmann (03:40):
So once you qualified, did you just stay
initially in clinics?
Yeah, so once I qualified so Idid my medical degree.
I did my residency years downin Logan and I was actually
lucky there was a generalpractice in and I just started
the GP training and there was apractice in Inala, working with
a lot of refugee health and alot of the very poor there, and
(04:00):
I learned so much in that yearand just passionate doctors and
just the value of a good mentor.
So I did that.
Then I went and worked over in.
I finished my residency yearsdown in Rochedale and my
registrar years as a GPregistrar and then I started
working in Carindale.
Kate Coomber (04:19):
That must be where I met you, yeah.
Dr Juergen Landmann (04:25):
I met you, yeah, and look and whilst it's,
whilst you know, I've always hada passion for doing something,
you know, and sort of helpingother people, the vulnerable
communities.
Ultimately, mortgages comealong as well, so so I was
working busy in private billingland.
Do I insult you guys by sayinglooking after the white wealthy
in Warwick?
Sam Miklos (04:42):
You kind of have, so just go worried but uh, but
yeah.
Dr Juergen Landmann (04:50):
So, look, I was doing that and along came
covid, which was, um, you know,we were all.
We didn't know what to expect.
It was busy, busy, and you knowwe thought we're gonna sort of
close down.
But medicine ended up beingbusier than ever and um, so I
was working 14 hour days,starting at five in the morning
doing a couple of hours ofvaccines before consulting at 8.
And I just burnt out and I justthought, no, this is.
And I remember ringing my bossand he was really good and I
(05:12):
just said, look, mate, I justcan't do this.
And he says look, you know youenjoy your weekends and I've
always enjoyed working myweekends, you know.
And he says why don't you justdo your weekends?
You can have whatever you wantand just take a break, think
what you want to do.
So I was really lucky to have aboss, which sort of was good,
yeah exactly.
(05:35):
And so yeah, so that's when Isort of was taking a break, and
then because I had done avaccine clinic which I like,
let's ask about first, before weget on to that, the clinic in
your backyard.
Sam Miklos (05:44):
It sounds really bad .
A backyard clinic.
How did that come about?
Is that easy to do.
Well it's like.
Kate Coomber (05:51):
Can you just do that?
Can you do it?
Is it?
You did it.
Sam Miklos (05:54):
Yeah.
Dr Juergen Landmann (05:54):
Yeah.
So look, I suppose what I'vealways been interested in is
everyone always tells you whyyou can't do something.
Yes, and so sometimes so Ialways throw it back to them and
say, well, why can't I do it,why can't we just do this?
And and so what happened?
It was the beginning of COVID,you know, and everyone was
(06:14):
scared.
Nobody knew what to know, whatwas going to happen.
A lot of doctors were there,working long hours, and you know
, and then they wanted toprotect their own children, so
and they were sort of saying,well, how do we get the flu
vaccines out?
Sam Miklos (06:27):
Because you know, even though it was COVID you
think well, you know you've got.
Dr Juergen Landmann (06:31):
If you've got COVID and flu, what's that
going to do?
Kate Coomber (06:33):
And if you think back to 2020, like people were
actually staying away from theirfamilies, weren't they?
If you're in the medicalprofession, I family.
In hindsight.
I think what were we thinking?
It feels hard to remember thatnow, doesn't it?
You don't know what's going tohappen.
Dr Juergen Landmann (06:50):
So what I thought was well, I've been
doing flu vaccine clinics inschools for ages so I thought,
well, I'll just buy a whole heapof vaccines in and just do it
from the backyard.
So I put it out on this groupit's actually Brisbane Medical
Mums.
On the token, father there andthere's about 1,000 doctor
parents there and yeah.
(07:14):
So we just sort of said look,you know, I'm just doing this in
my backyard.
If you want to come and get one, I'll just do that.
Just bulk bill the consult, payfor the vaccine out of that.
And there was a donation box wewere collecting for a charity
over in the Philippines, so yeah, so basically they all came and
it was a huge success.
Didn't think it would besuccessful.
I think we did around aboutover three days.
(07:35):
I did about 1,000 vaccines.
Yeah, wow and yeah.
So I was just in the backyardand yeah working honestly.
Sam Miklos (07:39):
You just did that for three days yeah, it was
three different days and yeah, Istill do those vaccine clinics
so it's always my.
Dr Juergen Landmann (07:46):
You know the medical mums.
It's usually Anzac Dayafternoon and you know it's a
social thing.
Now you know they can goanywhere.
But it's also good for the kids.
They sometimes go.
They're not sort of, you know,it's not sitting in line in a
doctor's surgery or a pharmacyto get it Feeling nervous and
all of those things that comewith it.
Kate Coomber (08:06):
So they just go.
Dr Juergen Landmann (08:08):
Get a vaccine, go have a lollipop chat
with all the friends.
So it's a model which startedand it just worked.
Sam Miklos (08:18):
So that's what we continued.
So now let's talk about EmmanuelCity Mission, because this year
I'm doing the CEO Sleepo ut andI know it's a token in some
ways.
You know we're sleeping out forone night, but you know we talk
a lot here about how we cancreate great health care
outcomes, you know, for thesecommunities we're supporting at
Cornerstone.
But how can you even prioritisehealth when you're homeless?
(08:40):
Homeless and we talked a lotabout well, could we have
someone that we could speak totoday about what?
What actually is the impact of,I guess, the health care
options available for someonewho's homeless?
What's the work that you do atEmmanuel City Mission?
What do they do?
Dr Juergen Landmann (08:54):
Yeah, so Emmanuel City Mission is
Brisbane's biggest homelessdrop-in centre.
Basically it started out withanother guy, just a guy, who
said, oh look, you know're achurch.
I'm not part of their church.
But they just sort of said,look, rather than us being, you
know, here on a Sunday andclosed up for the rest of the
time and there's people on thestreets, why don't we just open
(09:15):
our doors and welcome them in?
And it started a number ofyears ago with a barbecue and
they just used to do a fewsausages and then it just grew
and grew and you know it worksoutside of any government
funding because they like well,not that they would say no to
money, but they're consciousthat they can do what they want
and support their people withoutany strings attached.
(09:38):
So they basically it's an openliving room.
You know people walk in there.
They open from, I think, 7 till3.
You walk in.
You can have from, I think, 7till 3.
You walk in.
You can have a coffee, properBrewster coffee.
There's a wonderful roastery inMoorooka which donates the
beans and they have a coffee.
There's a hot lunch served at12 o'clock.
But, more to the point, it'sjust somewhere they can get off
(10:00):
the streets.
It's sanctuary for them.
They maintain a very high levelof behaviour.
Kate Coomber (10:07):
There's no bad language, they can't come
intoxicated or anything else,it's a safe place for them to be
.
Dr Juergen Landmann (10:12):
It's a safe place and the visitors respect
those rules and if there's evera bit of an altercation or
someone, there's no security oranything.
But if there's everyone gettinga bit sort of wryly, the other
visitors escort them out.
Because what happens if?
They'll actually just close thecentre if it's a problem, and
then you've inconvenienced 150streeties.
Sam Miklos (10:31):
Yeah, I was just going to say how many people
would go through every day.
Dr Juergen Landmann (10:34):
Well, it's up to about 200 hot lunches a
day.
They're serving Seven days aweek, yeah, so weekends they've
got shorter hours, but yeah,seven days a week.
I think it's a barbecue onSundays.
Kate Coomber (10:45):
I'm always working in private land on those days,
so I don't know what happens onweekends and that's just
volunteers coming to serve thoselunches.
Yeah.
Dr Juergen Landmann (10:52):
So, look, they have a few paid staff, but
it's very few paid staff.
But, yeah, coordinating thevolunteers, and a lot of school
groups come through, which Ithink is really powerful because
they have.
I think there are about 20schools associated.
So, rather than just collectingmoney for a charity and saying,
(11:13):
oh, this is helping thehomeless, what they always say
is look, they say come along andhave a look and have the kids
there.
The kids actually serve lunch,you know, cook the breakfast, so
they'll cook some bacon, eggrolls or cook the lunch and then
actually go and sit amongst thevisitors to sort of break down
stigmas, break down barriers andthen teach.
(11:35):
This is the new generation, youknow.
This is social justiceawareness which you're actually
seeing, not just hearing aboutand donating to put into a
bucket of money.
Kate Coomber (11:45):
And this is what we're trying to do with the team
here, isn't it?
It's about you having yournight of sleeping out, but we're
thinking about all theinitiatives we can do in here as
a team to raise awareness andactually get them out into the
community to experience that forthemselves, absolutely.
No, that would be great, and soI guess, from a medical
perspective.
So is there also a clinicattached to this, or do you just
(12:07):
see what's your role?
Dr Juergen Landmann (12:08):
So look, basically what happened.
It was actually a bit ofserendipity on how I got there.
So initially because I'd donethe flu vaccine clinic.
One of the med studentsactually who I knew, said, oh,
there's this initiative wherewe're doing COVID vaccines in
this drop-in centre at the RedCross Night Cafe which is under
(12:29):
City Hall.
That's for 12 to 25-year-oldhomeless, and you know
12-year-old homeless which wehave in Brisbane.
But they said, look, would youlike to do a COVID vaccine
clinic there?
I said, look, mate, nobody'sgoing to want it because this is
towards the tail end of it.
But I thought, no, I likepromoting, you know, supporting
the medical students, becausethey've got to see a failure, to
learn what works and whatdoesn't work.
(12:50):
And sure enough, as predicted,it was a failure.
I think I did one vaccine andthat was to one of the other
volunteers.
But whilst I was there I wastalking to a street outreach
nurse and I was talking to her,and you know I get plenty of
time to chat and I like to chat?
Sam Miklos (13:04):
No, you don't at all , it is.
Dr Juergen Landmann (13:06):
And she was saying look, you know, we see
the same people, the youngpeople.
They're stigmatized when theygo to emergency departments.
They're the junkies, they'rewhatever.
So we do their dressings andthen they come and go and we
just do the same dressing day in, day out.
A lot of it is sort ofself-inflicted or from fights or
whatever, but it's infected.
They need to see a doctor.
And I sort of famous last words.
(13:28):
I said, look, I don't reallywant to get involved.
But if it's really that, look,just send me a text, I'll flick
you a script for antibiotic andyou know if that's going to help
you out.
Then I sort of got a little bitmore interest and I thought I
actually they did a few clinicsaround the town and I thought
I'd like to actually go and havea look at what they're doing.
So somebody told me oh, look,you know they're doing a clinic
(13:51):
in the valley.
They gave me the address.
You know you can turn up tothere of an evening and have a
look.
So with young kids, as we allknow, we don't often get hall
passes.
Sam Miklos (14:00):
So I got a hall pass .
I'm like waiting for that day.
I got a hall pass, I'm waitingfor that day.
Yeah, go on.
Dr Juergen Landmann (14:03):
So this is how exciting my life is.
Sam Miklos (14:04):
I got to go out and hang out.
I was going to say you talkabout your hall pass and mine.
I feel like they're different,but anyway, let's go with yours.
Dr Juergen Landmann (14:12):
So yeah, I got to go out into the valley of
a night time to check out ahomeless drop-in centre.
Sam Miklos (14:17):
So anyway, it was a Wednesday night and I thought
well, you know, I knew my son'sschool was associated with this
place called Emmanuel CityMission, so I said I'll go and
pop in there and have a lookwhat's happening.
So you know, because I'm notgoing to go home, I'm allowed
out.
Exactly.
Somebody else is good for notgoing into the valley.
Dr Juergen Landmann (14:34):
Yeah, exactly so I found them there in
South Brisbane and had a lookaround and I talked to the boss
there you know the guy runningand I said, look, you know,
would there be use for having adoctor come in here?
So and they said, oh, look, youknow, you can have a, we could
try it.
You could set up a clinic hereif you wanted.
We'll give you a four-weektrial and see how you go.
So I started doing just settingup.
(14:56):
I literally set up a fold-outtable at the back of the hall,
operate out of a backpack, havea laptop and just do general
practice service as well.
It got flat out always busy andjust people coming in for a bit
of a chat, but just offeringfull GP services.
Kate Coomber (15:10):
Word got around that you were there.
Dr Juergen Landmann (15:12):
So I started doing that regularly on
a Friday.
They've never reviewed myfour-week trial.
Kate Coomber (15:17):
How long ago was that A?
Dr Juergen Landmann (15:18):
couple of years, Wow.
And then they actuallyironically, the homeless drop-in
centre became homeless becausetheir lease wasn't renewed, but
they luckily moved up to thiswonderful new facility which was
the old men's hostel which isin South Brisbane, which had
been sitting vacant for a coupleof years.
So they took it over.
Beautiful facilities.
(15:40):
I've actually got a doctor'sroom there now, because they
used to run a detox out of thereactually with Dr Sturman, who I
still work with.
She's down in New Farm now, andso there's a doctor's room
there, who I still work with.
She's down in New Farm now, andso there's a doctor's room.
There's a treatment room.
They actually had a four-bedprocedure room there from the
detox, but we're not using that.
But even though I've got mydoctor's room and it's set up
(16:04):
there so I can do procedures,which I probably well, actually
I used to do procedures in thelast place, but doing them on a
church pew was a bit interesting, Cutting out skin lesions.
Kate Coomber (16:13):
You've really got to be able to write Again.
Dr Juergen Landmann (16:15):
you always ask the question.
They say, oh, can you do that?
I say, well, why not?
Sure, it's not the most privateor whatever, but it's not like
these guys haven't seen a knifeor blood before.
Sam Miklos (16:26):
Do you feel that you can have real impact?
Dr Juergen Landmann (16:29):
in that role.
Kate Coomber (16:30):
It's so fair.
Have you got a?
Sam Miklos (16:31):
story that you can share of just the impact that
you've had on one person.
Kate Coomber (16:37):
Or there is a particular person that's stuck
with you, of you know.
Dr Juergen Landmann (16:41):
Look there's, you do, it's so nice
and it's all chipping away.
You don't very rarely do youhave someone come in and you
give them some advice and havechanged their life.
But it's what I love aboutworking out of Emmanuel City
Mission is people have got theirguard down.
They trust the organisation,they trust the volunteers there.
So when they come and they seea service which is there, they
sort of trust you a lot.
(17:02):
Now sometimes they'll come andlike health, as you mentioned
earlier, just isn't on theirradar.
Like probably 20% of the guysthere have got hepatitis C and
it's just the contrast to.
You know they've got hep C,they know it.
It can be easily treatable withyou know two or three months of
tablets, one a day, and they'rejust not worried about it.
Put that into contrast.
(17:23):
Where I work in private land,where somebody's liver function
test is slightly out, I need tosee the best hepatologist in
Brisbane.
Who are they?
And so yeah.
So basically you just, you seethe guy, they're really
pre-contemplative, they're justyeah, look, whatever, I don't
care.
And sometimes they'll eventhink that they have you know
that they're baiting me as ifI'm really worried to the fact
(17:44):
that they're not being treated.
But then you just get a rapportand you see them over there
CART or a Centrelink certificate, and eventually you know you
start engaging them and startengaging them until they
actually say and you know, look,doc, you know how you've got
that hep C.
I think I'm ready to get atreatment now.
And it's like those are themoments which really get you
(18:05):
going.
Or when somebody comes back,they've been on the streets,
they've had a completely chaoticlife, they're addicted to all
sorts of substances, which iswhat's essentially kept them on
the street.
You keep challenging thebehaviour, challenging the
behaviours.
You know, when you see them andthis is I said I've got a
doctor's surgery I still operateout of a table at the back of
the hall because that way I cankeep an eye on everyone I'll go
(18:26):
up and I'll have a chat to themwhilst they're having lunch and
eventually, when they see thatsomebody cares, then they
actually, because some of theseguys have never had someone care
for them ever in their life,like who knows who Dad was, mum
was probably on the gear.
Their life has been verytransactional.
They're in and out of prisonand then they suddenly come to
(18:47):
you and they say, look, you knowit's not fun anymore.
It's like no, but they don'tknow how to get out of this.
So you show them a pathway likeit's to us.
It's so obvious what you've gotto do.
But no, just even the conceptof how do you go to apply for a
job?
What would you do?
How would you?
You know, how would you?
How would you put a CV together?
(19:08):
Just all these type of things.
And so you do that.
And then you come back andthey're in high vis because
they've got a job as a labourer.
Kate Coomber (19:15):
That must feel really good when you see them
walk in like that.
I was just going to say it getsso emotional when you think
about this work it is.
Dr Juergen Landmann (19:22):
It's just.
That's when you know you've won.
Kate Coomber (19:23):
And when you're really getting through to them
and helping them to see whatcould be.
Is medication and thingavailable Like is that?
Can they even access it?
Well, look so In terms of cost,no also.
Dr Juergen Landmann (19:38):
This is a problem for them.
You know you can write a scriptand often they'll go up to the
emergency department with aninfected whatever and they'll
get a script for the antibiotics.
But if you've got no money,what do you do?
So look, in the end I started,you know.
Often I just sort of said look,you know, it's seven dollars
seventy.
You got a health care card.
I'll just, you know, I'll justpay for it.
Look, I was bulk billing it.
(19:59):
You know I was making something, but you know you're not doing,
you're not there for the money,for sure.
But yeah, I was usually payingfor it out of my own pocket.
Occasionally we've haddifferent organizations.
I've had a couple of littlegrants of $1,000 to set up a
pharmacy account at the localpharmacy.
So yeah, but price ofmedications is a major barrier.
So it's not, you know.
(20:20):
Or even dressings.
You know they've got these biginfected wounds and they're just
open and go mate, why aren'tyou having a dressing on that?
It's like oh well, yeah, that'smoney.
Kate Coomber (20:31):
They sound so lucky to have you in that
setting and, yeah, you clearlyjust care so much.
You talked there about peoplegoing sort of in and out of
prison perhaps, and you alsowork in one of the correctional
facilities.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that, that role, yeah so
look, we don't.
Dr Juergen Landmann (20:50):
What struck me is people.
You know, it's one thing.
I can see the guys, I can sortof help them, and then you're
getting somewhere and they'reoff in the prison system again
and it's just in and out ofprisons, because in my opinion.
Sam Miklos (21:02):
Oh, it is, I don't think we really support people.
Dr Juergen Landmann (21:04):
You know transitioning back out, you know
it's.
You know if you've done, let'ssay, a few years in a
correctional facility and you'vegot less than $100 in your
prison account, then when you'rereleased, what you're given is
you're given a it's called ablue bag.
It's got a $20 go-kart in it, a$30 Woolies voucher, two $25
(21:25):
Vinnies vouchers, a towel and afew toiletries.
You're dropped at the trainstation at Wacol and said good
luck, don't re-offend Now if youI hope you got there?
Yeah, exactly, and look, you cango to Centrelink.
You can get an emergency crisispayment plus a forward on your
next check, so you'll have $600to your name and you're left in
(21:45):
Brisbane and you probablyweren't often, to be honest,
probably not the most functionalmember of society going into
prison, and now I can imaginedropping me into a foreign city
or a city anywhere else.
Kate Coomber (21:55):
But then if you've had nothing and you get given
$600 as well, if you can getthat advance, well, that's it.
I can imagine how to wisely usethat and set yourself up for
success probably isn't at thetop of the list, absolutely not.
Dr Juergen Landmann (22:09):
So what do they do?
Look, some guys, when they getout of prison, are always going
to go back to what they weredoing.
But I just see them time andtime again at Emmanuel City and,
like Doc, I just don't want tobe here.
I didn't enjoy my time inprison.
I really don't want to reoffend.
But what do you do?
And a lot of them were pickingup these big drug addictions
because there's a medicationcalled Suboxone they all get
(22:32):
addicted to and they rack up bigdebts in the prison as well.
So they leave with an addictionand they leave with a big drug
debt.
So now again, not only are youleft at your train station with
your blue bag and good luck, andyou've got $600, but you've
also got $100,000 drug debt to abikey gang.
How do you service that debt?
And around and around we go.
(22:54):
So this is where I rang the headof prison health and I said,
look, you know what are you guysdoing?
And he says, oh, it's not thateasy.
And it wasn't that easy.
So I thought, well, why don't Igo in?
And you know, there's one wayto fix the problem.
And I had an idea on how to doit.
And look and don't get me wrong, the prison health doctors,
nurses are fantastic and they'revery passionate, but, you know,
(23:16):
under-resourced, under-staffed,and so I thought, well, I'll go
in and do some work in theprison.
So I basically work just inopiate substitution there and we
see big, you know.
So I started at Walston Prisonbecause my actual next-door
neighbour was an officer thereand he said I was mowing his
lawn and he said I'll come andwork in prisons with me.
Kate Coomber (23:41):
So I started working in his prison and he
used to introduce me to all hismates as the guy who mows the
lawn is now fixing our opiateproblem.
I was just about to say so.
You're volunteering around townand you're also mowing your
neighbour's lawn.
Dr Juergen Landmann (23:47):
Well, I do have to confess.
I do have my guilty midlifecrisis purchase, which is a
ride-on mower.
Sam Miklos (23:55):
Oh well, thank you, and if you've ever had a ride-on
mower, I was going to move toLA but you got a convertible Do
I have a lawn big?
Dr Juergen Landmann (24:00):
enough to justify a ride-on mower.
No.
So, if I can, find myneighbour's lawns and they'll
let me mow it.
You know it's a serious one itand they'll let me mow it.
You know it's a serious one,it's a John Deere, it's even got
a stubby holder.
Yeah, so yeah, how different.
Sam Miklos (24:14):
your midlife crisis is yes.
Dr Juergen Landmann (24:17):
So yeah, so anyway, so off we.
So there I am, and it was good.
We had fantastic support fromthe nurses there and the prison
system and we got rid of theopiate.
Um the opiate well, the waitlist to get on the opiate
substitution program and um whatwas that?
Kate Coomber (24:37):
what was the wait list?
Dr Juergen Landmann (24:38):
oh, it's probably about 12 months to get
on.
So, yeah, there's a lot ofdamage you can do yourself in 12
months using sort of blackmarket um, you know suboxone
inside the prisons and like togive you an idea like these guys
are spending hundreds ofdollars a day on their habit,
which is not only an impact forthem racking up a debt when they
get out, but it's also fortheir families.
Like and we know, as I'massuming you're law abiding I
(25:02):
think I am, but you know, ifyou're, if you had a child who
rings you up and says look, youknow, mum, if you don't transfer
$30,000 to this guy's account,I'm going to get beaten and
raped.
Sam Miklos (25:12):
What would you do?
You'd just do it.
Dr Juergen Landmann (25:14):
And so they're bleeding their families
dry.
Sam Miklos (25:19):
So anyway, we fixed that problem Was the program
already there.
Dr Juergen Landmann (25:22):
When you joined, it was there.
Sam Miklos (25:23):
What was your role?
What do you do in the programas a doctor?
Dr Juergen Landmann (25:27):
So I basically just see the patients,
put them on the program andalso just adjust them.
But it's not just giving themthe drugs, it's actually trying
to address some of their issues.
I've had a number of the guyscome and see me in a manual
afterwards and I said, look,that's where I am, you know, if
you want, and just that support.
But again, it's just thatsupporting the guys, you know,
not just you're not a number tothem, you're onto that clinic
room Exactly, number to them,you're on to that clinic room
(25:48):
Exactly and even when they comein, the officers will often say
we'll call up prisoners such andsuch, and I said no, no, no,
they're my patient, you knowthey're not prisoners such and
such.
They're Bob, they're Rachel, youknow they're whoever.
So it's just that support andalso then talking about, like
all these guys they could be thefully you know the big Viking
enforcers, fullface tats.
(26:09):
You get them one-on-one,they're just scared.
A lot of them are just scared.
They don't know where to go.
So it's just supporting them,getting them on an appropriate
opiate replacement therapy,telling them how to continue
that when they get out, and whatit's done is it's cut down
dramatically the illegal drugtrade there.
(26:31):
There's always going to be some.
I was talking to the prisonofficers themselves.
They love it.
The general manager of theprison.
They said look, they're savingmillions of dollars in overtime
because whenever someone wasillegally injecting and bear in
mind, you can't get needlesinside the prison, so they're
using homemade needles whichhave usually been passed around
(26:52):
20 different guys and theinfections.
And so that was just.
He said.
Kate Coomber (26:58):
The knock-on effect to health?
Yeah, Absolutely.
Dr Juergen Landmann (27:00):
And you know all the ambulance taking
people to PA hospital and I cansay.
I've talked to the doctorsthere.
It was costing the PA hospitalmillions of dollars a year in
injection-related injuries fromthe prisons.
It's not to mention tying upall these ambulance crews.
All the prisons, yeah all theseand then the corrections
officer.
every guy going to hospitaltakes two officers two
(27:23):
corrections officers to staywith them, and so it was just.
You know, now that everyone'son the program, there's hardly
any medical escorts out.
Everyone's more chilled Becauseotherwise, if you're addicted
to a medication and you needthat when you wake up, you will
do anything to get it.
So mental health referrals aredown by three quarters in the
(27:45):
center.
You know, there's lessstandovers, less fighting.
It's just been shown how onemedical intervention and it's
not rocket science, I didn't doanything special there, but just
being able to provide thatservice can have so many
knock-on effects.
And that's what I love aboutmedicine.
Sam Miklos (28:06):
Like I'm a GP, I'm not an addiction specialist.
Dr Juergen Landmann (28:08):
I'm not one person.
There is a team behind me,there is a team of nurses, very
passionate nurses, and everyonethrough to the administration
staff.
But it's just how in medicinethis is what I love about
general practice I can go fromprivate clinic to deciding I'm
going to set up at a table atthe back of a hall with my
laptop through to I can go intoa prison and do opiate
(28:31):
replacement, and it's so that'syour sign writing reference at
the beginning, when you'resaying, as a doctor, you need a
good sign writer because you cancreate an opportunity down the
passion projects that you have.
Kate Coomber (28:43):
Exactly.
Dr Juergen Landmann (28:44):
And yeah, and you've got that.
And also I never get bored nowbecause you know I find a lot of
doctors burn out becausethey're just doing the same
grind and the same thing all thetime.
So, look, I've got a very shortattention span.
Sam Miklos (28:57):
Has it helped Because you referenced earlier
the burnout you felt after COVIDhas having some of these
different projects helped?
Kate Coomber (29:07):
Oh, absolutely, but these must still burden you,
right Like, is it in adifferent way that still you're
taking on a lot of people'sthings, which must you do?
Dr Juergen Landmann (29:17):
But look, I always remember when I was in
the hospitals and I was doing abit of palliative care and I was
talking to the consultant onceand I said, look, how do you not
get affected by this?
You know you're dealing withpeople who are dying all the
time and he says, look, you knowthe day you don't get affected,
go home.
You know you don't belong here,but you know you look at the
(29:37):
benefits.
You can't.
You know, and I think everysingle person in the medical
field knows, that they can't fixeverybody else's problems.
You can do your best and Ipretend that I completely switch
off, but I don't.
But I actually get, you know,even though I'm dealing with the
most traumatic things, often,especially on the streets of
South Brisbane, and they'rereally tough days and people are
(29:58):
revealing to me things, youknow, shocking things, which I
often haven't told another soul.
I leave that place energisedbecause you know that your
little interventions you haven'tfixed problems but you've made
a difference.
You get that feeling thatyou've made a difference and I
actually, whether it's there orworking at Carino, you know,
even though I've cut back myhours in private GP land, you
(30:21):
know I love it because I'vealways myself to my patients.
You know if they want atie-wearing doctor, they never
come back to me.
Sam Miklos (30:31):
I'm wearing a shirt today for this interview.
Kate Coomber (30:33):
You're particularly obsessed today.
Dr Juergen Landmann (30:35):
This is the only shirt I wear, because I
don't own shirts.
Kate Coomber (30:43):
Do you remember when we were speaking to Dr
Dinesh last season and his mumalways said that you can't
change the world, but you canchange the world for that person
?
Yeah, and you can really havethat impact directly on that
person today, for that moment.
Dr Juergen Landmann (30:54):
Yeah, I love that saying yeah, yeah, but
it's true, you can do your bestand you get excited about being
able to go in and do that.
And I get excited every day.
There isn't a day when I don'tgo to work and I don't look
forward to going to work.
Have you ever felt?
Sam Miklos (31:08):
fearful Like is there ever?
I mean, if you think aboutworking in prisons, working with
the homeless, there's so manystigmas that are attached to
these vulnerable groups and Iguess what are the assumptions
that people make that are wrong?
And have you ever felt unsafe?
Dr Juergen Landmann (31:26):
Yeah, look, I don't feel unsafe.
And look, would I let any of mypatients babysit the kids?
No, but yeah, look, it's.
Essentially, I think we're veryprivileged in healthcare and
the fact that people respect usand they trust us generally and
if they don't, it actually givesus an opportunity to explore
the why.
(31:50):
And a lot of these guys havebeen treated very badly by the
healthcare system.
They've been stigmatized.
You walk into an emergencydepartment and you've got a face
full of tats and track marks upyour arms.
A lot of them have been treatedvery poorly, even if they're
coming in asking for help for amental health issue.
But I think I'm always veryclear with my boundaries and I'm
very.
You know you don't let yourguard down.
(32:13):
But on the same note, I don'tthink anyone's ever had a
problem.
I don't really feel scared.
Prisons are the safest place ofall because you know I'm
dealing with the same guys onthe streets, except the
difference is that, even thoughI'm in a concert room, I've got
a duress button and one press ofa duress button I've got the
whole turtle squad there.
Sam Miklos (32:30):
Yeah, turtle squad yes, has the like.
There's this real theme in yourwork around supporting
vulnerable groups, and has thisemerged over the years
post-COVID, or was there anexperience in your life, or is
it like where has this come from?
Yeah, look, I don't know.
Dr Juergen Landmann (32:51):
I suppose I was lucky again with my
upbringing.
My parents were always.
I think we learn a lot from ourparents and you know, even
though they were both firstgeneration migrants, if there
was ever anyone who was, it wasChristmas time.
There was someone in the areawho didn't have somewhere to go
they were at Christmas time.
Kate Coomber (33:06):
There was someone in the area who didn't have?
Dr Juergen Landmann (33:07):
somewhere to go.
They were at our table.
So, yes, I suppose that's whereI learned a bit from, but I
think you learn a lot aboutyourself by giving and look, I
enjoy it.
Kate Coomber (33:20):
you know, I guess, what do you do to unwind and to
make sure that you?
Sam Miklos (33:26):
look after yourself whilst you're looking after all
of things other than around JohnDeere with a beard.
Is it the lawnmower?
Kate Coomber (33:30):
is that the relaxing moment for you?
You know what are the thingsthat help you to make sure you
can be at your best for othersyeah, look, it is the lawnmower
yeah but it's also, it's thatchanging.
Sam Miklos (33:40):
I'll let you know where you actually need a
gardener so no, it is.
Dr Juergen Landmann (33:47):
I suppose that variety is always something
which I'm not getting boggeddown in the one thing Also, the
beauty of general practice isset your hours.
So I actually do that.
My wife does three of thedrop-offs.
I do pretty much all thepickups from school, so I finish
it.
You know 2, 2.30, you knowthat's it, you call it.
(34:09):
We're just so privileged inthis career that you can just
determine your hours and find it.
You know you can't do that inevery role, but you just don't
take those roles and so I get tospend time with the kids, you
know.
Kate Coomber (34:22):
And they're your boundaries right this is what's
important to you.
Sam Miklos (34:32):
I get to pick the kids up, spend time with the
kids.
Look, it's actually morestressful.
Dr Juergen Landmann (34:34):
I do pick up every day.
I was like that's not mydowntime, but that's it.
So this is where you do that,you know.
And I have every secondsaturday off, which I like.
I've got a couple of days offduring the week so I can come
and see the lovely people at cmron a wednesday.
So, um, so this is my downtime,but, as I said, I actually get
excited Like my hobby.
Medicine is my hobby and Ialways love that saying if you
love what you do, you never worka day in your life.
(34:54):
So people say how do you unwind?
It's like I actually I've justdone two 14 hour days and the
prison's just getting getting ontop of some stuff and I have
just been so looking forward tothat for a long time because I
didn't have to pick up on thosetwo days.
Sam Miklos (35:06):
Yeah, but no, but it's also like I.
Dr Juergen Landmann (35:09):
Just my mind is.
I see a project I want to workon and I get excited.
And it's the same way otherguys might get excited by
building a garden bed orrestoring a motorcycle.
Well, look, I fixed the opiatesubstitution in a prison.
That's what excited.
Sam Miklos (35:25):
Hey, I've fixed the opiate substitution in a prison.
That's what excited me.
Hey, I got paid for it too.
Wow, yeah, yeah.
What's the next project then?
Yeah, where to when you've kindof come to this or each of
these projects that you've found?
Are there other things that arein the back of your mind or
other interests?
Dr Juergen Landmann (35:40):
Yeah, I'm interested in the prison release
space, yeah, and, as I said,I've already mentioned how we
fail people, but also just thatwhole patient journey.
So at the moment, I'm seeingthem on the streets, I'm seeing
them in the prisons.
I want to see them through thewatch houses.
So how, when they get there,that we can better manage them
(36:03):
to get them into the prisons,and then, when they leave the
prison, let's give them apathway where they don't have to
see me on the streets of SouthBrisbane.
So that's my next passionproject.
Kate Coomber (36:14):
I think that'll keep you going for a while.
Dr Juergen Landmann (36:16):
I think that will.
Sam Miklos (36:17):
I just don't give up the Sundays at Carina, because
I really need to.
Kate Coomber (36:21):
She still needs you.
So CMR are making a donation toa charity of your choice with
every episode.
So what's your charity today?
Dr Juergen Landmann (36:31):
I think it would have to be Emmanuel,
Emmanuel, fantastic.
Kate Coomber (36:33):
Hopefully we'll be able to get the team down there
as well and come in, help out.
Yeah, yeah, help out.
Thank you, wonderful Thank youso much, jorgen.
Sam Miklos (36:42):
Just you get so emotional talking about it.
You can see that you're just soinvested in all of the areas
that you work in, and how luckyare all these people to have
someone like you.
That they can see and just howmuch you put into all of your
work is just so inspiring.
So thank you for finding thetime to sit with us today, and
it's been so nice to actuallytalk to you without a whole
(37:04):
bunch of kids.
Dr Juergen Landmann (37:04):
It is no.
Look and thank you for theopportunity is that I'm
obviously passionate and I loveand other people can can sort of
share some of their passion andmaybe get themselves thinking
it might not be yourhomelessness, they might be
interested in refugee health,whatever.
But just always asking thatquestion on you know, rather
than saying, well, that's notthe way things are done.
When anyone ever puts that toyou, just ask them well, why not
(37:27):
?
Yeah, love it Spot on, why not?
Kate Coomber (37:31):
Thank you, thank you so much no worries.
We acknowledge the traditionalcustodians of the land of which
we meet who, for centuries, haveshared ancient methods of
healing and cared for theircommunities.
We pay our respects to elders,past and present.
There's a cost to caring, especially when you're
constantly faced with the rawestparts of humanity, but for some
, that cost is also what givestheir work meaning I pretend
that I completely switch off,but I don't.
Dr Juergen Landmann (00:11):
Even though I'm dealing with the most
traumatic things, oftenespecially on the streets of
South Brisbane, and they'rereally tough days and people are
revealing to me things, youknow, shocking things, which I
often haven't told another soul.
I leave that place energisedbecause you know that your
little interventions you haven'tfixed problems, that you've
made a difference.
Sam Miklos (00:31):
This is a conversation about burnout
boundaries and the quiet powerof showing up over and over
again, even when no one elsedoes.
Kate Coomber (00:39):
If you want to continue to hear about real
people making an impact, thenhit follow or subscribe.
It's the best way to supportthe show and make sure that you
never miss an episode.
Sam Miklos (00:55):
Today we're super excited to have Dr Juergen
Landmann with us.
He's a local GP who is proofthat choosing a career in
general practice can really openup some wonderful opportunities
.
Juergen currently holds severalroles he's a community GP, a
doctor for the homeless, andalso works in a correctional
facility and in COVID he evenset up a home clinic to give
jabs to frontline healthcareworkers.
(01:17):
Fun fact, or maybe aninteresting fact, is that
Juergen has treated both Kateand my families at various times
over the last few years.
We've got loads to talk about,but none of that is going to be
our medical history.
We're just going to keep it.
We're going to talk about you,so welcome today, Juergen, to it
Takes Heart.
Dr Juergen Landmann (01:31):
Oh, thanks very much, guys, for joining us
Welcome.
Sam Miklos (01:34):
So this is a big role flip for us, because
usually we would be sitting in aclinic with a whole bunch of
kids on our lap different to benot looking like this.
I'm I'm the parent that keepsall of the health care things
for the weekend and then go andfind an appointment so by then.
It's a bit too far gone usually.
But anyway, I've always saidthat whenever we go and see you,
you're always talking about allof the different roles that you
(01:55):
hold.
You always kind of drop in abit about Emmanuel City a or
Mission at at the prisons orout at the university, but we've
never actually we don't want totalk about all of these
opportunities.
And today came with Kate and Italking about the CEO sleepout
that I'll be doing this year.
So before we get into all ofthat, tell us about you, like
where did you grow up and didyou always want to be a GP?
Dr Juergen Landmann (02:17):
Yeah, look, I suppose the concept of being
a doctor and being a GP wasalways there, but I never really
thought too much about it.
I grew up in Warwick, which isa rural area.
Yeah, no, my dad was aschoolteacher so we went out to
Warwick and I'd been my primaryschooling there before moving
(02:37):
back.
So I always had a bit of aninterest in the rural settings
and then came back to Brisbane.
I always wanted to do medicine,but I enjoyed high school a
little bit too much.
Sam Miklos (02:47):
So I ended up.
Dr Juergen Landmann (02:48):
Got into university, ended up, but went
more down the life science routeand did all sorts of things and
effectively had a gap decade.
Kate Coomber (02:56):
Gap decade.
Dr Juergen Landmann (02:58):
Enjoyed every part of it and don't
regret any of it, but then sortof went into.
Always was sort of attracted tothat sort of working with
people and medicine.
So general practice is thelogical profession for me.
What I love about generalpractice is just the absolute
flexibility to do what you wantwhere you want.
(03:20):
And I still remember one of mymentors telling me.
He said, jorgen, you know whatyou need to do to specialise in
general practice.
And I said what's that?
He says you need a good signwriter.
And he says call yourselfwhatever you like, do whatever
you want.
And you know what otherprofession does that.
And you know it's just so.
Yeah, so that's where I grew up.
Sam Miklos (03:39):
And as a general practice.
Dr Juergen Landmann (03:40):
So once you qualified, did you just stay
initially in clinics?
Yeah, so once I qualified so Idid my medical degree.
I did my residency years downin Logan and I was actually
lucky there was a generalpractice in and I just started
the GP training and there was apractice in Inala, working with
a lot of refugee health and alot of the very poor there, and
(04:00):
I learned so much in that yearand just passionate doctors and
just the value of a good mentor.
So I did that.
Then I went and worked over in.
I finished my residency yearsdown in Rochedale and my
registrar years as a GPregistrar and then I started
working in Carindale.
Kate Coomber (04:19):
That must be where I met you, yeah.
Dr Juergen Landmann (04:25):
I met you, yeah, and look and whilst it's,
whilst you know, I've always hada passion for doing something,
you know, and sort of helpingother people, the vulnerable
communities.
Ultimately, mortgages comealong as well, so so I was
working busy in private billingland.
Do I insult you guys by sayinglooking after the white wealthy
in Warwick?
Sam Miklos (04:42):
You kind of have, so just go worried but uh, but
yeah.
Dr Juergen Landmann (04:50):
So, look, I was doing that and along came
covid, which was, um, you know,we were all.
We didn't know what to expect.
It was busy, busy, and you knowwe thought we're gonna sort of
close down.
But medicine ended up beingbusier than ever and um, so I
was working 14 hour days,starting at five in the morning
doing a couple of hours ofvaccines before consulting at 8.
And I just burnt out and I justthought, no, this is.
And I remember ringing my bossand he was really good and I
(05:12):
just said, look, mate, I justcan't do this.
And he says look, you know youenjoy your weekends and I've
always enjoyed working myweekends, you know.
And he says why don't you justdo your weekends?
You can have whatever you wantand just take a break, think
what you want to do.
So I was really lucky to have aboss, which sort of was good,
yeah exactly.
(05:35):
And so yeah, so that's when Isort of was taking a break, and
then because I had done avaccine clinic which I like,
let's ask about first, before weget on to that, the clinic in
your backyard.
Sam Miklos (05:44):
It sounds really bad .
A backyard clinic.
How did that come about?
Is that easy to do.
Well it's like.
Kate Coomber (05:51):
Can you just do that?
Can you do it?
Is it?
You did it.
Sam Miklos (05:54):
Yeah.
Dr Juergen Landmann (05:54):
Yeah.
So look, I suppose what I'vealways been interested in is
everyone always tells you whyyou can't do something.
Yes, and so sometimes so Ialways throw it back to them and
say, well, why can't I do it,why can't we just do this?
And and so what happened?
It was the beginning of COVID,you know, and everyone was
(06:14):
scared.
Nobody knew what to know, whatwas going to happen.
A lot of doctors were there,working long hours, and you know
, and then they wanted toprotect their own children, so
and they were sort of saying,well, how do we get the flu
vaccines out?
Sam Miklos (06:27):
Because you know, even though it was COVID you
think well, you know you've got.
Dr Juergen Landmann (06:31):
If you've got COVID and flu, what's that
going to do?
Kate Coomber (06:33):
And if you think back to 2020, like people were
actually staying away from theirfamilies, weren't they?
If you're in the medicalprofession, I family.
In hindsight.
I think what were we thinking?
It feels hard to remember thatnow, doesn't it?
You don't know what's going tohappen.
Dr Juergen Landmann (06:50):
So what I thought was well, I've been
doing flu vaccine clinics inschools for ages so I thought,
well, I'll just buy a whole heapof vaccines in and just do it
from the backyard.
So I put it out on this groupit's actually Brisbane Medical
Mums.
On the token, father there andthere's about 1,000 doctor
parents there and yeah.
(07:14):
So we just sort of said look,you know, I'm just doing this in
my backyard.
If you want to come and get one, I'll just do that.
Just bulk bill the consult, payfor the vaccine out of that.
And there was a donation box wewere collecting for a charity
over in the Philippines, so yeah, so basically they all came and
it was a huge success.
Didn't think it would besuccessful.
I think we did around aboutover three days.
(07:35):
I did about 1,000 vaccines.
Yeah, wow and yeah.
So I was just in the backyardand yeah working honestly.
Sam Miklos (07:39):
You just did that for three days yeah, it was
three different days and yeah, Istill do those vaccine clinics
so it's always my.
Dr Juergen Landmann (07:46):
You know the medical mums.
It's usually Anzac Dayafternoon and you know it's a
social thing.
Now you know they can goanywhere.
But it's also good for the kids.
They sometimes go.
They're not sort of, you know,it's not sitting in line in a
doctor's surgery or a pharmacyto get it Feeling nervous and
all of those things that comewith it.
Kate Coomber (08:06):
So they just go.
Dr Juergen Landmann (08:08):
Get a vaccine, go have a lollipop chat
with all the friends.
So it's a model which startedand it just worked.
Sam Miklos (08:18):
So that's what we continued.
So now let's talk about EmmanuelCity Mission, because this year
I'm doing the CEO Sleepo ut andI know it's a token in some
ways.
You know we're sleeping out forone night, but you know we talk
a lot here about how we cancreate great health care
outcomes, you know, for thesecommunities we're supporting at
Cornerstone.
But how can you even prioritisehealth when you're homeless?
(08:40):
Homeless and we talked a lotabout well, could we have
someone that we could speak totoday about what?
What actually is the impact of,I guess, the health care
options available for someonewho's homeless?
What's the work that you do atEmmanuel City Mission?
What do they do?
Dr Juergen Landmann (08:54):
Yeah, so Emmanuel City Mission is
Brisbane's biggest homelessdrop-in centre.
Basically it started out withanother guy, just a guy, who
said, oh look, you know're achurch.
I'm not part of their church.
But they just sort of said,look, rather than us being, you
know, here on a Sunday andclosed up for the rest of the
time and there's people on thestreets, why don't we just open
(09:15):
our doors and welcome them in?
And it started a number ofyears ago with a barbecue and
they just used to do a fewsausages and then it just grew
and grew and you know it worksoutside of any government
funding because they like well,not that they would say no to
money, but they're consciousthat they can do what they want
and support their people withoutany strings attached.
(09:38):
So they basically it's an openliving room.
You know people walk in there.
They open from, I think, 7 till3.
You walk in.
You can have from, I think, 7till 3.
You walk in.
You can have a coffee, properBrewster coffee.
There's a wonderful roastery inMoorooka which donates the
beans and they have a coffee.
There's a hot lunch served at12 o'clock.
But, more to the point, it'sjust somewhere they can get off
(10:00):
the streets.
It's sanctuary for them.
They maintain a very high levelof behaviour.
Kate Coomber (10:07):
There's no bad language, they can't come
intoxicated or anything else,it's a safe place for them to be
.
Dr Juergen Landmann (10:12):
It's a safe place and the visitors respect
those rules and if there's evera bit of an altercation or
someone, there's no security oranything.
But if there's everyone gettinga bit sort of wryly, the other
visitors escort them out.
Because what happens if?
They'll actually just close thecentre if it's a problem, and
then you've inconvenienced 150streeties.
Sam Miklos (10:31):
Yeah, I was just going to say how many people
would go through every day.
Dr Juergen Landmann (10:34):
Well, it's up to about 200 hot lunches a
day.
They're serving Seven days aweek, yeah, so weekends they've
got shorter hours, but yeah,seven days a week.
I think it's a barbecue onSundays.
Kate Coomber (10:45):
I'm always working in private land on those days,
so I don't know what happens onweekends and that's just
volunteers coming to serve thoselunches.
Yeah.
Dr Juergen Landmann (10:52):
So, look, they have a few paid staff, but
it's very few paid staff.
But, yeah, coordinating thevolunteers, and a lot of school
groups come through, which Ithink is really powerful because
they have.
I think there are about 20schools associated.
So, rather than just collectingmoney for a charity and saying,
(11:13):
oh, this is helping thehomeless, what they always say
is look, they say come along andhave a look and have the kids
there.
The kids actually serve lunch,you know, cook the breakfast, so
they'll cook some bacon, eggrolls or cook the lunch and then
actually go and sit amongst thevisitors to sort of break down
stigmas, break down barriers andthen teach.
(11:35):
This is the new generation, youknow.
This is social justiceawareness which you're actually
seeing, not just hearing aboutand donating to put into a
bucket of money.
Kate Coomber (11:45):
And this is what we're trying to do with the team
here, isn't it?
It's about you having yournight of sleeping out, but we're
thinking about all theinitiatives we can do in here as
a team to raise awareness andactually get them out into the
community to experience that forthemselves, absolutely.
No, that would be great, and soI guess, from a medical
perspective.
So is there also a clinicattached to this, or do you just
(12:07):
see what's your role?
Dr Juergen Landmann (12:08):
So look, basically what happened.
It was actually a bit ofserendipity on how I got there.
So initially because I'd donethe flu vaccine clinic.
One of the med studentsactually who I knew, said, oh,
there's this initiative wherewe're doing COVID vaccines in
this drop-in centre at the RedCross Night Cafe which is under
(12:29):
City Hall.
That's for 12 to 25-year-oldhomeless, and you know
12-year-old homeless which wehave in Brisbane.
But they said, look, would youlike to do a COVID vaccine
clinic there?
I said, look, mate, nobody'sgoing to want it because this is
towards the tail end of it.
But I thought, no, I likepromoting, you know, supporting
the medical students, becausethey've got to see a failure, to
learn what works and whatdoesn't work.
(12:50):
And sure enough, as predicted,it was a failure.
I think I did one vaccine andthat was to one of the other
volunteers.
But whilst I was there I wastalking to a street outreach
nurse and I was talking to her,and you know I get plenty of
time to chat and I like to chat?
Sam Miklos (13:04):
No, you don't at all , it is.
Dr Juergen Landmann (13:06):
And she was saying look, you know, we see
the same people, the youngpeople.
They're stigmatized when theygo to emergency departments.
They're the junkies, they'rewhatever.
So we do their dressings andthen they come and go and we
just do the same dressing day in, day out.
A lot of it is sort ofself-inflicted or from fights or
whatever, but it's infected.
They need to see a doctor.
And I sort of famous last words.
(13:28):
I said, look, I don't reallywant to get involved.
But if it's really that, look,just send me a text, I'll flick
you a script for antibiotic andyou know if that's going to help
you out.
Then I sort of got a little bitmore interest and I thought I
actually they did a few clinicsaround the town and I thought
I'd like to actually go and havea look at what they're doing.
So somebody told me oh, look,you know they're doing a clinic
(13:51):
in the valley.
They gave me the address.
You know you can turn up tothere of an evening and have a
look.
So with young kids, as we allknow, we don't often get hall
passes.
Sam Miklos (14:00):
So I got a hall pass .
I'm like waiting for that day.
I got a hall pass, I'm waitingfor that day.
Yeah, go on.
Dr Juergen Landmann (14:03):
So this is how exciting my life is.
Sam Miklos (14:04):
I got to go out and hang out.
I was going to say you talkabout your hall pass and mine.
I feel like they're different,but anyway, let's go with yours.
Dr Juergen Landmann (14:12):
So yeah, I got to go out into the valley of
a night time to check out ahomeless drop-in centre.
Sam Miklos (14:17):
So anyway, it was a Wednesday night and I thought
well, you know, I knew my son'sschool was associated with this
place called Emmanuel CityMission, so I said I'll go and
pop in there and have a lookwhat's happening.
So you know, because I'm notgoing to go home, I'm allowed
out.
Exactly.
Somebody else is good for notgoing into the valley.
Dr Juergen Landmann (14:34):
Yeah, exactly so I found them there in
South Brisbane and had a lookaround and I talked to the boss
there you know the guy runningand I said, look, you know,
would there be use for having adoctor come in here?
So and they said, oh, look, youknow, you can have a, we could
try it.
You could set up a clinic hereif you wanted.
We'll give you a four-weektrial and see how you go.
So I started doing just settingup.
(14:56):
I literally set up a fold-outtable at the back of the hall,
operate out of a backpack, havea laptop and just do general
practice service as well.
It got flat out always busy andjust people coming in for a bit
of a chat, but just offeringfull GP services.
Kate Coomber (15:10):
Word got around that you were there.
Dr Juergen Landmann (15:12):
So I started doing that regularly on
a Friday.
They've never reviewed myfour-week trial.
Kate Coomber (15:17):
How long ago was that A?
Dr Juergen Landmann (15:18):
couple of years, Wow.
And then they actuallyironically, the homeless drop-in
centre became homeless becausetheir lease wasn't renewed, but
they luckily moved up to thiswonderful new facility which was
the old men's hostel which isin South Brisbane, which had
been sitting vacant for a coupleof years.
So they took it over.
Beautiful facilities.
(15:40):
I've actually got a doctor'sroom there now, because they
used to run a detox out of thereactually with Dr Sturman, who I
still work with.
She's down in New Farm now, andso there's a doctor's room
there, who I still work with.
She's down in New Farm now, andso there's a doctor's room.
There's a treatment room.
They actually had a four-bedprocedure room there from the
detox, but we're not using that.
But even though I've got mydoctor's room and it's set up
(16:04):
there so I can do procedures,which I probably well, actually
I used to do procedures in thelast place, but doing them on a
church pew was a bit interesting, Cutting out skin lesions.
Kate Coomber (16:13):
You've really got to be able to write Again.
Dr Juergen Landmann (16:15):
you always ask the question.
They say, oh, can you do that?
I say, well, why not?
Sure, it's not the most privateor whatever, but it's not like
these guys haven't seen a knifeor blood before.
Sam Miklos (16:26):
Do you feel that you can have real impact?
Dr Juergen Landmann (16:29):
in that role.
Kate Coomber (16:30):
It's so fair.
Have you got a?
Sam Miklos (16:31):
story that you can share of just the impact that
you've had on one person.
Kate Coomber (16:37):
Or there is a particular person that's stuck
with you, of you know.
Dr Juergen Landmann (16:41):
Look there's, you do, it's so nice
and it's all chipping away.
You don't very rarely do youhave someone come in and you
give them some advice and havechanged their life.
But it's what I love aboutworking out of Emmanuel City
Mission is people have got theirguard down.
They trust the organisation,they trust the volunteers there.
So when they come and they seea service which is there, they
sort of trust you a lot.
(17:02):
Now sometimes they'll come andlike health, as you mentioned
earlier, just isn't on theirradar.
Like probably 20% of the guysthere have got hepatitis C and
it's just the contrast to.
You know they've got hep C,they know it.
It can be easily treatable withyou know two or three months of
tablets, one a day, and they'rejust not worried about it.
Put that into contrast.
(17:23):
Where I work in private land,where somebody's liver function
test is slightly out, I need tosee the best hepatologist in
Brisbane.
Who are they?
And so yeah.
So basically you just, you seethe guy, they're really
pre-contemplative, they're justyeah, look, whatever, I don't
care.
And sometimes they'll eventhink that they have you know
that they're baiting me as ifI'm really worried to the fact
(17:44):
that they're not being treated.
But then you just get a rapportand you see them over there
CART or a Centrelink certificate, and eventually you know you
start engaging them and startengaging them until they
actually say and you know, look,doc, you know how you've got
that hep C.
I think I'm ready to get atreatment now.
And it's like those are themoments which really get you
(18:05):
going.
Or when somebody comes back,they've been on the streets,
they've had a completely chaoticlife, they're addicted to all
sorts of substances, which iswhat's essentially kept them on
the street.
You keep challenging thebehaviour, challenging the
behaviours.
You know, when you see them andthis is I said I've got a
doctor's surgery I still operateout of a table at the back of
the hall because that way I cankeep an eye on everyone I'll go
(18:26):
up and I'll have a chat to themwhilst they're having lunch and
eventually, when they see thatsomebody cares, then they
actually, because some of theseguys have never had someone care
for them ever in their life,like who knows who Dad was, mum
was probably on the gear.
Their life has been verytransactional.
They're in and out of prisonand then they suddenly come to
(18:47):
you and they say, look, you knowit's not fun anymore.
It's like no, but they don'tknow how to get out of this.
So you show them a pathway likeit's to us.
It's so obvious what you've gotto do.
But no, just even the conceptof how do you go to apply for a
job?
What would you do?
How would you?
You know, how would you?
How would you put a CV together?
(19:08):
Just all these type of things.
And so you do that.
And then you come back andthey're in high vis because
they've got a job as a labourer.
Kate Coomber (19:15):
That must feel really good when you see them
walk in like that.
I was just going to say it getsso emotional when you think
about this work it is.
Dr Juergen Landmann (19:22):
It's just.
That's when you know you've won.
Kate Coomber (19:23):
And when you're really getting through to them
and helping them to see whatcould be.
Is medication and thingavailable Like is that?
Can they even access it?
Well, look so In terms of cost,no also.
Dr Juergen Landmann (19:38):
This is a problem for them.
You know you can write a scriptand often they'll go up to the
emergency department with aninfected whatever and they'll
get a script for the antibiotics.
But if you've got no money,what do you do?
So look, in the end I started,you know.
Often I just sort of said look,you know, it's seven dollars
seventy.
You got a health care card.
I'll just, you know, I'll justpay for it.
Look, I was bulk billing it.
(19:59):
You know I was making something, but you know you're not doing,
you're not there for the money,for sure.
But yeah, I was usually payingfor it out of my own pocket.
Occasionally we've haddifferent organizations.
I've had a couple of littlegrants of $1,000 to set up a
pharmacy account at the localpharmacy.
So yeah, but price ofmedications is a major barrier.
So it's not, you know.
(20:20):
Or even dressings.
You know they've got these biginfected wounds and they're just
open and go mate, why aren'tyou having a dressing on that?
It's like oh well, yeah, that'smoney.
Kate Coomber (20:31):
They sound so lucky to have you in that
setting and, yeah, you clearlyjust care so much.
You talked there about peoplegoing sort of in and out of
prison perhaps, and you alsowork in one of the correctional
facilities.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that, that role, yeah so
look, we don't.
Dr Juergen Landmann (20:50):
What struck me is people.
You know, it's one thing.
I can see the guys, I can sortof help them, and then you're
getting somewhere and they'reoff in the prison system again
and it's just in and out ofprisons, because in my opinion.
Sam Miklos (21:02):
Oh, it is, I don't think we really support people.
Dr Juergen Landmann (21:04):
You know transitioning back out, you know
it's.
You know if you've done, let'ssay, a few years in a
correctional facility and you'vegot less than $100 in your
prison account, then when you'rereleased, what you're given is
you're given a it's called ablue bag.
It's got a $20 go-kart in it, a$30 Woolies voucher, two $25
(21:25):
Vinnies vouchers, a towel and afew toiletries.
You're dropped at the trainstation at Wacol and said good
luck, don't re-offend Now if youI hope you got there?
Yeah, exactly, and look, you cango to Centrelink.
You can get an emergency crisispayment plus a forward on your
next check, so you'll have $600to your name and you're left in
(21:45):
Brisbane and you probablyweren't often, to be honest,
probably not the most functionalmember of society going into
prison, and now I can imaginedropping me into a foreign city
or a city anywhere else.
Kate Coomber (21:55):
But then if you've had nothing and you get given
$600 as well, if you can getthat advance, well, that's it.
I can imagine how to wisely usethat and set yourself up for
success probably isn't at thetop of the list, absolutely not.
Dr Juergen Landmann (22:09):
So what do they do?
Look, some guys, when they getout of prison, are always going
to go back to what they weredoing.
But I just see them time andtime again at Emmanuel City and,
like Doc, I just don't want tobe here.
I didn't enjoy my time inprison.
I really don't want to reoffend.
But what do you do?
And a lot of them were pickingup these big drug addictions
because there's a medicationcalled Suboxone they all get
(22:32):
addicted to and they rack up bigdebts in the prison as well.
So they leave with an addictionand they leave with a big drug
debt.
So now again, not only are youleft at your train station with
your blue bag and good luck, andyou've got $600, but you've
also got $100,000 drug debt to abikey gang.
How do you service that debt?
And around and around we go.
(22:54):
So this is where I rang the headof prison health and I said,
look, you know what are you guysdoing?
And he says, oh, it's not thateasy.
And it wasn't that easy.
So I thought, well, why don't Igo in?
And you know, there's one wayto fix the problem.
And I had an idea on how to doit.
And look and don't get me wrong, the prison health doctors,
nurses are fantastic and they'revery passionate, but, you know,
(23:16):
under-resourced, under-staffed,and so I thought, well, I'll go
in and do some work in theprison.
So I basically work just inopiate substitution there and we
see big, you know.
So I started at Walston Prisonbecause my actual next-door
neighbour was an officer thereand he said I was mowing his
lawn and he said I'll come andwork in prisons with me.
Kate Coomber (23:41):
So I started working in his prison and he
used to introduce me to all hismates as the guy who mows the
lawn is now fixing our opiateproblem.
I was just about to say so.
You're volunteering around townand you're also mowing your
neighbour's lawn.
Dr Juergen Landmann (23:47):
Well, I do have to confess.
I do have my guilty midlifecrisis purchase, which is a
ride-on mower.
Sam Miklos (23:55):
Oh well, thank you, and if you've ever had a ride-on
mower, I was going to move toLA but you got a convertible Do
I have a lawn big?
Dr Juergen Landmann (24:00):
enough to justify a ride-on mower.
No.
So, if I can, find myneighbour's lawns and they'll
let me mow it.
You know it's a serious one itand they'll let me mow it.
You know it's a serious one,it's a John Deere, it's even got
a stubby holder.
Yeah, so yeah, how different.
Sam Miklos (24:14):
your midlife crisis is yes.
Dr Juergen Landmann (24:17):
So yeah, so anyway, so off we.
So there I am, and it was good.
We had fantastic support fromthe nurses there and the prison
system and we got rid of theopiate.
Um the opiate well, the waitlist to get on the opiate
substitution program and um whatwas that?
Kate Coomber (24:37):
what was the wait list?
Dr Juergen Landmann (24:38):
oh, it's probably about 12 months to get
on.
So, yeah, there's a lot ofdamage you can do yourself in 12
months using sort of blackmarket um, you know suboxone
inside the prisons and like togive you an idea like these guys
are spending hundreds ofdollars a day on their habit,
which is not only an impact forthem racking up a debt when they
get out, but it's also fortheir families.
Like and we know, as I'massuming you're law abiding I
(25:02):
think I am, but you know, ifyou're, if you had a child who
rings you up and says look, youknow, mum, if you don't transfer
$30,000 to this guy's account,I'm going to get beaten and
raped.
Sam Miklos (25:12):
What would you do?
You'd just do it.
Dr Juergen Landmann (25:14):
And so they're bleeding their families
dry.
Sam Miklos (25:19):
So anyway, we fixed that problem Was the program
already there.
Dr Juergen Landmann (25:22):
When you joined, it was there.
Sam Miklos (25:23):
What was your role?
What do you do in the programas a doctor?
Dr Juergen Landmann (25:27):
So I basically just see the patients,
put them on the program andalso just adjust them.
But it's not just giving themthe drugs, it's actually trying
to address some of their issues.
I've had a number of the guyscome and see me in a manual
afterwards and I said, look,that's where I am, you know, if
you want, and just that support.
But again, it's just thatsupporting the guys, you know,
not just you're not a number tothem, you're onto that clinic
room Exactly, number to them,you're on to that clinic room
(25:48):
Exactly and even when they comein, the officers will often say
we'll call up prisoners such andsuch, and I said no, no, no,
they're my patient, you knowthey're not prisoners such and
such.
They're Bob, they're Rachel, youknow they're whoever.
So it's just that support andalso then talking about, like
all these guys they could be thefully you know the big Viking
enforcers, fullface tats.
(26:09):
You get them one-on-one,they're just scared.
A lot of them are just scared.
They don't know where to go.
So it's just supporting them,getting them on an appropriate
opiate replacement therapy,telling them how to continue
that when they get out, and whatit's done is it's cut down
dramatically the illegal drugtrade there.
(26:31):
There's always going to be some.
I was talking to the prisonofficers themselves.
They love it.
The general manager of theprison.
They said look, they're savingmillions of dollars in overtime
because whenever someone wasillegally injecting and bear in
mind, you can't get needlesinside the prison, so they're
using homemade needles whichhave usually been passed around
(26:52):
20 different guys and theinfections.
And so that was just.
He said.
Kate Coomber (26:58):
The knock-on effect to health?
Yeah, Absolutely.
Dr Juergen Landmann (27:00):
And you know all the ambulance taking
people to PA hospital and I cansay.
I've talked to the doctorsthere.
It was costing the PA hospitalmillions of dollars a year in
injection-related injuries fromthe prisons.
It's not to mention tying upall these ambulance crews.
All the prisons, yeah all theseand then the corrections
officer.
every guy going to hospitaltakes two officers two
(27:23):
corrections officers to staywith them, and so it was just.
You know, now that everyone'son the program, there's hardly
any medical escorts out.
Everyone's more chilled Becauseotherwise, if you're addicted
to a medication and you needthat when you wake up, you will
do anything to get it.
So mental health referrals aredown by three quarters in the
(27:45):
center.
You know, there's lessstandovers, less fighting.
It's just been shown how onemedical intervention and it's
not rocket science, I didn't doanything special there, but just
being able to provide thatservice can have so many
knock-on effects.
And that's what I love aboutmedicine.
Sam Miklos (28:06):
Like I'm a GP, I'm not an addiction specialist.
Dr Juergen Landmann (28:08):
I'm not one person.
There is a team behind me,there is a team of nurses, very
passionate nurses, and everyonethrough to the administration
staff.
But it's just how in medicinethis is what I love about
general practice I can go fromprivate clinic to deciding I'm
going to set up at a table atthe back of a hall with my
laptop through to I can go intoa prison and do opiate
(28:31):
replacement, and it's so that'syour sign writing reference at
the beginning, when you'resaying, as a doctor, you need a
good sign writer because you cancreate an opportunity down the
passion projects that you have.
Kate Coomber (28:43):
Exactly.
Dr Juergen Landmann (28:44):
And yeah, and you've got that.
And also I never get bored nowbecause you know I find a lot of
doctors burn out becausethey're just doing the same
grind and the same thing all thetime.
So, look, I've got a very shortattention span.
Sam Miklos (28:57):
Has it helped Because you referenced earlier
the burnout you felt after COVIDhas having some of these
different projects helped?
Kate Coomber (29:07):
Oh, absolutely, but these must still burden you,
right Like, is it in adifferent way that still you're
taking on a lot of people'sthings, which must you do?
Dr Juergen Landmann (29:17):
But look, I always remember when I was in
the hospitals and I was doing abit of palliative care and I was
talking to the consultant onceand I said, look, how do you not
get affected by this?
You know you're dealing withpeople who are dying all the
time and he says, look, you knowthe day you don't get affected,
go home.
You know you don't belong here,but you know you look at the
(29:37):
benefits.
You can't.
You know, and I think everysingle person in the medical
field knows, that they can't fixeverybody else's problems.
You can do your best and Ipretend that I completely switch
off, but I don't.
But I actually get, you know,even though I'm dealing with the
most traumatic things, often,especially on the streets of
South Brisbane, and they'rereally tough days and people are
(29:58):
revealing to me things, youknow, shocking things, which I
often haven't told another soul.
I leave that place energisedbecause you know that your
little interventions you haven'tfixed problems but you've made
a difference.
You get that feeling thatyou've made a difference and I
actually, whether it's there orworking at Carino, you know,
even though I've cut back myhours in private GP land, you
(30:21):
know I love it because I'vealways myself to my patients.
You know if they want atie-wearing doctor, they never
come back to me.
Sam Miklos (30:31):
I'm wearing a shirt today for this interview.
Kate Coomber (30:33):
You're particularly obsessed today.
Dr Juergen Landmann (30:35):
This is the only shirt I wear, because I
don't own shirts.
Kate Coomber (30:43):
Do you remember when we were speaking to Dr
Dinesh last season and his mumalways said that you can't
change the world, but you canchange the world for that person
?
Yeah, and you can really havethat impact directly on that
person today, for that moment.
Dr Juergen Landmann (30:54):
Yeah, I love that saying yeah, yeah, but
it's true, you can do your bestand you get excited about being
able to go in and do that.
And I get excited every day.
There isn't a day when I don'tgo to work and I don't look
forward to going to work.
Have you ever felt?
Sam Miklos (31:08):
fearful Like is there ever?
I mean, if you think aboutworking in prisons, working with
the homeless, there's so manystigmas that are attached to
these vulnerable groups and Iguess what are the assumptions
that people make that are wrong?
And have you ever felt unsafe?
Dr Juergen Landmann (31:26):
Yeah, look, I don't feel unsafe.
And look, would I let any of mypatients babysit the kids?
No, but yeah, look, it's.
Essentially, I think we're veryprivileged in healthcare and
the fact that people respect usand they trust us generally and
if they don't, it actually givesus an opportunity to explore
the why.
(31:50):
And a lot of these guys havebeen treated very badly by the
healthcare system.
They've been stigmatized.
You walk into an emergencydepartment and you've got a face
full of tats and track marks upyour arms.
A lot of them have been treatedvery poorly, even if they're
coming in asking for help for amental health issue.
But I think I'm always veryclear with my boundaries and I'm
very.
You know you don't let yourguard down.
(32:13):
But on the same note, I don'tthink anyone's ever had a
problem.
I don't really feel scared.
Prisons are the safest place ofall because you know I'm
dealing with the same guys onthe streets, except the
difference is that, even thoughI'm in a concert room, I've got
a duress button and one press ofa duress button I've got the
whole turtle squad there.
Sam Miklos (32:30):
Yeah, turtle squad yes, has the like.
There's this real theme in yourwork around supporting
vulnerable groups, and has thisemerged over the years
post-COVID, or was there anexperience in your life, or is
it like where has this come from?
Yeah, look, I don't know.
Dr Juergen Landmann (32:51):
I suppose I was lucky again with my
upbringing.
My parents were always.
I think we learn a lot from ourparents and you know, even
though they were both firstgeneration migrants, if there
was ever anyone who was, it wasChristmas time.
There was someone in the areawho didn't have somewhere to go
they were at Christmas time.
Kate Coomber (33:06):
There was someone in the area who didn't have?
Dr Juergen Landmann (33:07):
somewhere to go.
They were at our table.
So, yes, I suppose that's whereI learned a bit from, but I
think you learn a lot aboutyourself by giving and look, I
enjoy it.
Kate Coomber (33:20):
you know, I guess, what do you do to unwind and to
make sure that you?
Sam Miklos (33:26):
look after yourself whilst you're looking after all
of things other than around JohnDeere with a beard.
Is it the lawnmower?
Kate Coomber (33:30):
is that the relaxing moment for you?
You know what are the thingsthat help you to make sure you
can be at your best for othersyeah, look, it is the lawnmower
yeah but it's also, it's thatchanging.
Sam Miklos (33:40):
I'll let you know where you actually need a
gardener so no, it is.
Dr Juergen Landmann (33:47):
I suppose that variety is always something
which I'm not getting boggeddown in the one thing Also, the
beauty of general practice isset your hours.
So I actually do that.
My wife does three of thedrop-offs.
I do pretty much all thepickups from school, so I finish
it.
You know 2, 2.30, you knowthat's it, you call it.
(34:09):
We're just so privileged inthis career that you can just
determine your hours and find it.
You know you can't do that inevery role, but you just don't
take those roles and so I get tospend time with the kids, you
know.
Kate Coomber (34:22):
And they're your boundaries right this is what's
important to you.
Sam Miklos (34:32):
I get to pick the kids up, spend time with the
kids.
Look, it's actually morestressful.
Dr Juergen Landmann (34:34):
I do pick up every day.
I was like that's not mydowntime, but that's it.
So this is where you do that,you know.
And I have every secondsaturday off, which I like.
I've got a couple of days offduring the week so I can come
and see the lovely people at cmron a wednesday.
So, um, so this is my downtime,but, as I said, I actually get
excited Like my hobby.
Medicine is my hobby and Ialways love that saying if you
love what you do, you never worka day in your life.
(34:54):
So people say how do you unwind?
It's like I actually I've justdone two 14 hour days and the
prison's just getting getting ontop of some stuff and I have
just been so looking forward tothat for a long time because I
didn't have to pick up on thosetwo days.
Sam Miklos (35:06):
Yeah, but no, but it's also like I.
Dr Juergen Landmann (35:09):
Just my mind is.
I see a project I want to workon and I get excited.
And it's the same way otherguys might get excited by
building a garden bed orrestoring a motorcycle.
Well, look, I fixed the opiatesubstitution in a prison.
That's what excited.
Sam Miklos (35:25):
Hey, I've fixed the opiate substitution in a prison.
That's what excited me.
Hey, I got paid for it too.
Wow, yeah, yeah.
What's the next project then?
Yeah, where to when you've kindof come to this or each of
these projects that you've found?
Are there other things that arein the back of your mind or
other interests?
Dr Juergen Landmann (35:40):
Yeah, I'm interested in the prison release
space, yeah, and, as I said,I've already mentioned how we
fail people, but also just thatwhole patient journey.
So at the moment, I'm seeingthem on the streets, I'm seeing
them in the prisons.
I want to see them through thewatch houses.
So how, when they get there,that we can better manage them
(36:03):
to get them into the prisons,and then, when they leave the
prison, let's give them apathway where they don't have to
see me on the streets of SouthBrisbane.
So that's my next passionproject.
Kate Coomber (36:14):
I think that'll keep you going for a while.
Dr Juergen Landmann (36:16):
I think that will.
Sam Miklos (36:17):
I just don't give up the Sundays at Carina, because
I really need to.
Kate Coomber (36:21):
She still needs you.
So CMR are making a donation toa charity of your choice with
every episode.
So what's your charity today?
Dr Juergen Landmann (36:31):
I think it would have to be Emmanuel,
Emmanuel, fantastic.
Kate Coomber (36:33):
Hopefully we'll be able to get the team down there
as well and come in, help out.
Yeah, yeah, help out.
Thank you, wonderful Thank youso much, jorgen.
Sam Miklos (36:42):
Just you get so emotional talking about it.
You can see that you're just soinvested in all of the areas
that you work in, and how luckyare all these people to have
someone like you.
That they can see and just howmuch you put into all of your
work is just so inspiring.
So thank you for finding thetime to sit with us today, and
it's been so nice to actuallytalk to you without a whole
(37:04):
bunch of kids.
Dr Juergen Landmann (37:04):
It is no.
Look and thank you for theopportunity is that I'm
obviously passionate and I loveand other people can can sort of
share some of their passion andmaybe get themselves thinking
it might not be yourhomelessness, they might be
interested in refugee health,whatever.
But just always asking thatquestion on you know, rather
than saying, well, that's notthe way things are done.
When anyone ever puts that toyou, just ask them well, why not
(37:27):
?
Yeah, love it Spot on, why not?
Kate Coomber (37:31):
Thank you, thank you so much no worries.
We acknowledge the traditionalcustodians of the land of which
we meet who, for centuries, haveshared ancient methods of
healing and cared for theircommunities.
We pay our respects to elders,past and present.
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