August 26, 2024 • 59 mins
This week we are comparing Kick-Ass (2010) and Super (2010), twin films about average people taking on superhero identities to fight crime in their local neighbourhoods.
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The Movies:
Directed by Matthew Vaughan
Written by Jane Goldman & Matthew Vaughn
Based on the comic book by Mark Millar & John Romita Jr.
iMDb Rating: 7.6
Directed by James Gunn
Written by James Gunn
iMDB Rating: 6.7
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Content Warning:
Discussions of violence, sexual assault, rape, murder, death, drug use, foul language
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music
(00:19):
Hi everyone, I'm Lisa.
And I'm Nick.
And you're listening to It Takes Two, the podcast where two people take two movies with the same plot or premise and watch and discuss them.
In this episode, number 81.
The first time you've ever remembered what episode we're on.
Yeah, that's because we just did the previous one which was 80.
(00:39):
And I can do basic arithmetic.
Superheroes Without Superpowers. It's Super and Kick-Ass, both from 2010 which is interesting.
Yeah, they're twin films. Proper twin films.
Proper twin films. It's about time.
It's the first time we've done.
No.
We've done many twin films.
(01:00):
Yeah, these are both movies about like regular people deciding to dress up in costume and fight crime badly.
Shut up, crime.
Shut up, crime.
Obviously spoilers for every episode and including this one.
Yes.
This one's not special. It will be spoiled.
(01:22):
Yeah, both of these movies. Obviously the motivation of the characters are different.
Yeah.
One is a teenager who's just like...
Why has no one ever decided to do this?
And the other one's Rainn Wilson and he's lost his beautiful wife to Kevin Bacon.
I thought you were going to say his mind.
(01:43):
That too.
No. Yeah, the tone of these movies are both kind of silly and there's a little bit of reality in both of them but they are both sub-reality movies.
Yeah, definitely sub-reality. A lot of violence. I think when I saw them originally back around 2010, I don't think I saw either of these in cinema but you know whenever I did see them,
(02:12):
I think I liked Super more but...
Re-watching it?
Re-watching it, it really doesn't sit well with me and it's mainly that one scene. You know what scene I'm talking about.
Yeah, we'll get to that scene later.
Okay.
Unless you want to talk about it now.
I mean we can if we want to talk totally out of order but it's up to you.
(02:33):
No, you can do whatever you want.
Okay. I mean a little bit of a trigger warning here for sexual assault and rape. Super has a scene that plays the rape of a man for laughs.
Yeah, like most movies do.
(02:54):
I mean, no, most movies don't have a scene where they...
I'm saying that when it happens it's always for a comical effect.
It shouldn't be. I think The Boys toed a line with it in the recent season. I'm not going to go into details like that because I don't want to spoil The Boys for people but there is a scene that to some extent is supposed to be comical but also is showing tenseness and also how devoid they are of how far they've got into this journey that literally they will accept any horrible shit happening.
(03:27):
Yeah.
And I think that didn't hit me as strongly as this one whereas in Super it's very much a joke that this guy is getting sexually assaulted by a 22 year old and that he literally gets raped by her.
(03:51):
That's what happens.
And what really pisses me off about it, I mean, I think it's terrible to begin with because obviously, you know, there is a huge kind of stigmatization around talking about the sexual assault and rape of men.
You know, and it's something that's trivialized and something that like people will say, you know, doesn't happen but it does happen and it's just as serious as the sexual assault or rape of anyone else.
(04:18):
But it's the fact that they play this scene for laughs, like it's a joke that this guy is getting raped and then immediately after that, they're going to try and save his wife and they up the stakes by implying she's going to get raped.
Yeah.
And it's like, oh, this is serious now because this woman is going to get raped.
(04:39):
Yeah.
And it's like, but you just showed a man getting raped. You showed it on screen and said it was funny.
And now you're like, oh, but now things are different because it's really serious because this woman is going to get raped.
Yeah.
And that just really, I think, removed any credit I could give to the movie.
Yeah.
I mean, anything good about that movie, I think was overwritten by that decision.
(05:05):
Yeah.
Which is unfortunate.
It's also, obviously, it's been 14 years.
Yeah.
But in saying that.
I don't think it's changed that much.
No.
I think people, I don't think like, because I was going to say it's aged badly, but actually, I don't think a lot of people would agree that it's aged badly because I think people are still putting that kind of shit.
(05:30):
It's, I had to quickly Google it because I couldn't remember the title because there's been a few movies with days on them that doesn't make any sense out of context.
40 Days and 40 Nights is a romantic comedy I saw. I don't know, remember when? Early 2000s, it came out in 2002.
Right.
And it has a very similar scene in it. And it sort of just glossed over for the whole movie.
(05:55):
Yeah.
It comes in like third act, but you're just like, oh, for those who haven't seen that movie, I'm not going to spoil it for you. But yeah, it's supposed to be a romantic comedy about a guy who's getting laid so much that getting laid doesn't mean anything to me.
So he got me like, sorry, to me, to him, that he gives up sex for 40 days and 40 nights.
(06:17):
Right.
And it's just like a bunch of shenanigans that happened because he's like, I can't remember the guy. He's been in a few things. He's in Sin City. He was in 30 Days of Night, which is why I had to look it up.
Right.
Josh Hartnett.
Oh, okay.
He plays the main guy. But yeah.
(06:40):
Yeah, there's a weird amount of comedies because I mean, Super is a comedy.
Yeah, it's definitely a black comedy.
Yeah, I mean, it's definitely it's not like a lighthearted comedy by any matter of means. But there's a weird amount of comedies that are like, haha, it's so funny when a man gets sexually assaulted.
And it's like, it's not. Can we just stop doing that?
It's also the gay being used as a slur in both movies.
(07:04):
In both movies. Yeah. Also, they both use the R slur.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's a I mean, Elliot Page's character in Super is like, I think the character of Libby was supposed to be like wet dream fantasy for teenage boys because she just talks like a teenage boy in the internet and the citizens.
(07:26):
Yeah.
You know what I mean? Like, that's her whole thing is that like, oh, she's a girl who works in a comic shop and she's into comics and she's into superhero stuff and she loves violence.
And she's so non-PC and she uses gay as a slur and she uses, you know, all those other I can't even remember other language she is. But like, it was her whole opening like intro, how she speaks.
(07:49):
Yeah.
Was very like, dudebro. And it was like, oh, this is like, you like this was trying to get the attention of like, teenage boys at the time who are going to be like, oh, my God, she's just like one of us. She's so cool.
There's also the overly weirdly quirky reverse of that because Rainn Wilson plays the convenience store guy in Juno.
(08:11):
Yeah.
And his dialogue is bizarre.
In Juno?
In Juno.
Yeah.
It's funny because it's not hurtful, but like, it's still very weird.
Yeah, it's I'm going to go straight into my we're doing things all backwards here today, folks.
I'm going to go straight into my trivia stuff. But it's just because you're talking about that. So Rainn Wilson.
(08:34):
So this movie is made by James Gunn, famous for doing Guardians of Galaxy, et cetera, et cetera.
James Gunn used to be married to Jenna Fisher, who is I've never watched the office. Pam. Pam on the office, the American office.
Okay.
And he asked her to read over the script. They were not I think they were divorced already at this point, but they were friends.
(09:00):
And he had sent her the script and she was reading over it while she was on the set of The Office.
And then she was like, hey, my buddy Rainn Wilson, you should read this script.
And then Rainn Wilson was like, heck, yes, he read the script once and was like, I want to do this movie.
And then he also immediately sent his copy of the script to Elliot Page because he had loved working with Elliot Page on Juno.
(09:27):
And he was like, this person is going to be great for this movie.
So it was very much a like, you know, friend of a friend situation that they ended up both being in it, which I thought was kind of funny.
Super is a little bit more deranged as a movie.
Than Kick Ass.
Yeah, because Kick Ass is like.
(09:48):
Kick Ass feels more mainstream.
Yeah.
I mean, I know they were both trying to go kind of out there indie weird superhero thing.
Yeah.
I know this was right at the beginning of MCU.
Yeah.
Because it's two years after Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk.
I think Thor came out around this time, 2009 or 2010.
(10:11):
Anyway, it was right at the beginning of the MCU happening, so superhero movies were just coming back.
Yeah.
And then both these movies came out.
But definitely Kick Ass feels more mainstream.
Yeah.
Where Super was clearly targeting weirder audiences.
It was targeting the kind of audience who liked Juno, I guess.
(10:32):
Yeah.
And there's a lot of subtleness to the movie that's less well...
With Kick Ass, I find that you get the set up and you get the motivation and then you
get his call to adventure and then you see how he gets sort of superpowers, but not really.
(11:00):
Yeah.
And then it sort of just escalates from there into him being like,
I'm going to help people like a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, help people find their cats.
And then I go viral on the internet and everybody wants my help now on MySpace of all things.
Also, because I was thinking about that when we were watching it,
(11:22):
the concept of these people on their flip phones recording it and then it going viral
and being the most watched thing on the internet.
Yeah, with five million views.
The fact that that was the thing that they made, they made this film in 2010.
Or they probably shot it in 2009 or wrote it before that.
And the fact that in late 2000s, they wrote about how the superhero became famous by going
(11:47):
viral online was interesting because then obviously that's now a dime a dozen in today's society.
You get your five minutes of fame by going viral, and then people forget about you immediately.
Yeah, it's like in the last six months, we've had so much stuff happen that's gone viral.
And it's like, I think the Olympics has really helped because people are just like so on the ball
(12:13):
and there's just constantly new stuff and you just put some text into it and like that poor guy
who lost his thing because his dick touched the pole.
Right.
Yeah, everyone knows about that.
And it's just like, it's...
Our news cycle, this is definitely going to date when we're talking about this.
(12:34):
But our news cycle has become so fast paced that very recently there was an assassination
attempt against a former president of the United States and people immediately moved on from it.
Yeah.
Like people have kind of forgotten that already because so many other things have happened in
the meantime and we hear about them all constantly.
(12:54):
Yeah, so like...
I'm not even a person who is paying as much attention to the news as other people are.
Yeah.
And it's just like, it's gone.
Yeah, you went from that hock to girl to Trump getting assassinated to JD Vance being
picked to JD Vance talking about the whole couch fucking of JD Vance to...
(13:16):
Biden dropping out of the race.
Biden dropping out of the race and Trump saying to an audience of people of color that
Kamala Harris isn't black and she's just changed to being black to be diversity.
And also, yeah, to date I said it recently because when I saw the launch happen,
(13:40):
I would not be getting in a fucking spaceship made by Boeing if they can't make a plane without
the wings, like the doors flying off it. And now the fucking astronauts are stuck there
until February. It's supposed to be eight days and they're going to be out there for eight months.
SpaceX had to bail them out by sending more food and clothing like so and like and they
(14:01):
switched freaking CEOs.
So this is the news coming from the United States to New Zealand.
Yeah.
It's so much.
Yeah, there's just so much happening. And like you said, in the midst of all this,
the Olympics is happening. There's everything about like social media
has told us about the Olympics.
The rumor was poison, then it wasn't poison, then they had some rain and now it's poison.
(14:21):
The boxer that no one cared about when she lost in the quarterfinals of the
last Olympics, but now because she beat someone and everyone's like, well,
actually she's a man, even though...
It's illegal to be trans in the country and therefore if there was even a rumor
within the country, she never would have been sent.
Yeah, so she is a cis woman. I mean, also like if she was a trans woman, she would
(14:44):
still be a woman, but that's a whole other ballgame.
Like it's literally based on nothing except that people think she looks mannish and therefore,
you know, and it's coming to that whole, you know, head of transphobes.
The thing that we all know that transphobes,
(15:04):
terfs especially, you know, these like trans exclusionary radical feminists,
they're not feminists. They're like tradwives and they want all women to conform to their idea of
what a woman is and if you don't conform to what their idea of a woman is, then you must be a man.
And that's what we all knew was going to happen and then it awash.
Surprise, surprise, they see a woman they don't like and they're a cis woman they don't like and
(15:27):
they're like, it's a man. No, that's not how it works.
That's not how it works. Anyway, we've gone way off the rails.
How did we get here? Crimson Bolts is Rainn Wilson's
superhero alter ego and he hits people with wrenches and I always thought that was funny.
I think that's what's the funniest thing about that for me is that he literally goes to the
(15:49):
comic shop and gets Libby to show him like a bunch of different superheroes who use weapons
because he's like, I need, you know, inspiration, I need to get a weapon and like she gives him all
these, you know, like Batman, et cetera, you know, people who have who have like actual weapons and
he just goes home and then picks up like a wrench and is like, you know, dude, he smashes a melon
(16:10):
with it and it's like, hang on, what did you need the research for? It's not like any of these are
doing that, you know, yeah, it's very kick ass. He's got his like batons that he's using.
Yeah, which is interesting pick as well. Yeah, but he's clearly thought about it.
Yeah. And also that he goes out with weapons the first time. Yeah.
(16:32):
Where he's very muscly. Crimson Bolt's costume is so bad, it's good.
It's I mean, it definitely works as a guy who sewed his own costume together for his own design.
What I do my favorite part of the costume is what the zips are on the front.
He's made a question that he can easily get in and out of. Yeah, it makes so much sense.
(16:53):
I was like that like from a practicality point of view, of course, put your zip on the front so you
can get into the costume without help. Yeah. Why? Because kick asses zip is the whole way down his
back. Yeah, but it's also a wet suit. Yeah, but it's difficult. Have you ever put on a wet suit?
Yes. It is difficult. It is difficult, but especially by yourself. And a lot of wetsuits
(17:16):
will have like a long thing on it so that you can grab it and pull it up. His didn't seem to have
that in a way. Yeah. You don't want your enemies stripping you while you're fighting them.
Maybe they can do that anyway if you've got a zip. True. Maybe he's got one of those electric
things on the end of it like Batman's cowl. I think there was a multiple movies, I'm pretty sure.
(17:40):
Anyway, or at least in the comics or animated. Not Harley Quinn. Yeah, it's definitely there's
definitely a tonal difference. You know, kick ass is very reactionary until he meets up with Mindy
and Nicholas Cage. Damon. Damon. Also known as head girl and big daddy. Yeah. Yeah, and sort of like
(18:11):
in Super he gets beaten up and has to like hide at Libby's place. He gets shot. Yeah, he gets shot
and that's underneath like needs help. And Libby at this point is the only person who's kind of
figured it out. Yeah. And he denied it to her face before, but she just figured it out. So that's
(18:34):
where he goes. Yeah, she's a psychopath. She is literally a psychopath. Yeah. It's insane.
She's like, Oh, I know a guy who's committed a crime and that it's a guy that she thinks might
have cheated her friend's car. And then she wants to literally murder him. And she's like, Oh, I
didn't know that we weren't supposed to kill them. I'm only learning at this. It's like you work in
(18:55):
a comic book store like yeah, Balty as a super like the whole she's she is literally insane. Like
she's just like tackling maniacally at everything she does. That's it's yeah. It's it's it's
interesting. Some of the parts of that movie is still you know, but yeah, the tone shift is really
(19:24):
brought down. It's a bizarre choice. It's a bizarre choice to put that in the movie, which the whole
assault scene. Yeah. Because it's just like, oh, you know, but like we can't we as people can't
have sex, but superheroes can. Yeah, I mean, that's definitely playing into her character being an
(19:47):
absolute nut job. Like she's she really is like, like literally a psychopath or sociopath, no,
psychopath. She gets glee from hurting people. And you know, this plays into it that she's like,
just, you know, totally she is Jordan is she has no inhibition, I guess she has no like conscience,
(20:16):
there's nothing in there. She thinks she has a thought and she's like, I'm going to act on that.
Yeah. There's nothing stop here, even like the fact that she keeps saying his his his his actual
name. While they're doing stuff, I was gonna say his human name. Weird way to phrase it.
But she keeps calling him Frank. You know, whatever. Yeah. And he's like, stop saying that.
(20:38):
She's like, something what Frank? Oh, my God. There's no filter. Yeah. And it's not just in
her words in her actions. And you know, that's why she literally like can't stop herself from
like going to extremes and hurting people. And that also, you know, that plays into the assault
(20:59):
scene. That's why she's like, you know, she goes full ham on it. But it's just the fact. Yeah,
the fact that it's that that's like supposed to be a jokey thing is not great. Because you could
definitely you could still have the scene and make it clear that like actually like this is him
(21:19):
realizing that she's a real psychopath, you know, that she doesn't have control over her actions or
that she doesn't want to control her actions, you know, whatever. But instead, it's like,
haha, haha, funny, and then immediately forgotten. And they go to save his wife. Yeah. I would have
to say kick ass also has like a really ridiculous throwaway sex scene that's just in the movie for
(21:43):
no reason. Yeah, at least it's consenting. Yeah, it's consenting. Very weird. It's very weird that
they like, spend the night together after obviously spoilers, after he reveals himself to be kick
ass to the girl who thought he was gay. And they were like spending time together. And she's fine
(22:03):
with it almost instantly, which is bizarre. And then they're like hanging out in the comic book
shop. And then they have sex next to a dumpster at the fire exit. Yeah. And you're like, why is
this scene in the movie? So dumb. There's no reason for it. No, it's not artistic, like in Watchmen or,
(22:27):
you know, I think that seems actually really great for something like in a 90% weird movie. I should
really watch it. Watchmen came out around this time as well. Yeah, there was a big like, I think the
studios, all the production studios were like, shit, let's get. Yeah, I just like when they
(22:47):
just like, shotgun effect. Yeah, when the MCU started to kick off and they were like, oh shit,
this is successful. It was like every studio wanted a superhero franchise. Kick ass did become a
franchise, right? I've never seen the sequel. You haven't seen the sequel? No. Oh, okay. Is Red
Mist the villain in it? Yes. Okay, because the whole, because I was thinking when we get like,
(23:11):
towards the end of kick ass, I might, the thought that occurred to me is that this film feels like
it's less about kick ass and more of a villain origin story for Red Mist. Like the whole film
is a villain origin story for Red Mist. So I was like, he better be the villain in the second,
otherwise like what, that's a waste of a whole movie that they just turned into like,
(23:35):
it's literally a villain origin story. Yeah. Yeah. It's your dad being the guy you want to envy,
like look up to and then he gets fired out of a window by a bazooka and exploded. Yeah.
The guy that you thought was your friend. Yeah. But really didn't care about you when they came
down to it. Yeah. It's, yeah, kick ass is just overall a better movie. Holds up a lot better.
(24:03):
Still, you know, and then violence is a little bit more fun rather than visceral. Right.
Cause I like the- There's a lot of like head explosions in it.
Yeah. There's more, far more gun violence and people getting killed, but like a bullet
hitting somebody and then like them falling over and being dead is a little bit less
(24:26):
violent than someone smashing someone's head in repeatedly with a wrench. No, I mean super really
goes for the hyper violent aspect. You know, that's really what it's doing.
Cause even though like, obviously spoilers again, Libby's death, like Balti's death.
(24:46):
Is horrific. Yeah. I, I- Cause she goes full like X23 on it.
Yeah. But there's a, there's kind of foreshadowing to it in some, to some extent because they keep
emphasizing the height difference between them. And then like he, they both get shot at the same
range and his is, he takes it in the chest. And like, I mean, if you're thinking about it,
(25:08):
you're like, shit, her face is at his chest height. So then when you see her, it's like literally
half her face blown off, which is horrific. But it's also so abrupt.
Yeah, it really is. Cause they make a big deal about it going and buying like actual body armor
and stuff. And I think that's one of the like great scenes in Kick Ass is just like Mindy's
(25:34):
training to be hit girls, like literally wherever the hell they are, like in the docks and just
Nicholas Cage shooting her on the, on the premise that he would take her bowling afterwards.
Yeah. And it's, it's, you know, the, what they're training for so that she won't be scared when
someone else points a gun at her. Cause he's like, you know, someone else will point a gun at you.
(25:57):
Yeah. And so she, you know, it's so that she is prepared for that, which makes sense if you're
going into vigilante justice. They're the most prepared of everyone in both movies. They're the
only ones who are actually prepared for anything. And that's because his body armor is so big,
or anything. And that's because his background is that he's a cop. He was a cop. He was a cop,
(26:21):
went to prison. Yeah. He got framed, went to prison. So he's both a cop and someone who's
come out of prison. So he knows what he's talking about. Whereas, you know, both Kick Ass and Red
Bolt have no planning when they go into it first. They just like, they're like, I'm going to put on
(26:47):
this costume and I'm going to go out and wait around to fight crime, whatever. And I mean,
to some extent Kick Ass does a little bit of something because he tries to like teach himself
parkour. Whereas Crimson Bolt is just like sitting behind a dumpster waiting for a crime to happen.
Yeah. And then they both kind of get the shit kicked out on them the first time they try to
fight crime. At which point Crimson Bolt is like, oh, I need a weapon. And Kick Ass gets hit by a
(27:14):
car and goes to the hospital and gets all his bones replaced with metal. And messes up his nerve
endings so he can't like feel pain. Which is the weird like, oh, okay, you know, disbelief thing.
Because like, that's the thing about superheroes, that are always super. And there's very little
(27:36):
in the way of media. I think probably, because like, I think the big problem was the 80s,
90s action movies, where people would just walk off stuff that would be like, oh shit,
I need to go to the hospital now. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Since you've brought up
80s and 90s action movies, there was one of the trivia bits that I took down. And I'll just mention
(27:59):
that now because you've already brought them up. The role that Kevin Bacon plays in Super was not
supposed to be Kevin Bacon first. Okay. It was written for Jean-Claude Van Damme.
Which explains why his name is Jacques, which is a French name. Yeah, he was supposed to be
(28:23):
Jean-Claude Van Damme, but apparently he was like really hard to work with. And, yeah, that
doesn't surprise me. And basically, James Gunn said that he couldn't work, he couldn't risk
working with someone with that kind of personality on the thing. And then they replaced him with
Kevin Bacon last minute. But it was supposed to be Jean-Claude Van Damme. Because with the placement
of Kevin Bacon, it is such a Guardians of the Galaxy, like pre-casting. There's so many people
(28:51):
from the Guardians series that are in there. I mean, one of them is Sean Gunn, who is James Gunn's
brother. So that makes sense. Yeah. And James Gunn plays something like the weird Nathan Fillion.
Oh my god, I'd forgotten about it. Yeah. Again, Nathan Fillion's in Guardians 3.
(29:12):
Yeah, James Gunn plays like this devil who comes in Temp's high schoolers. In a TV show,
which you specify, within the universe of the thing. Yeah. And then the other one is the MCU,
because you get two fucking Quicksilvers in the same movie together. Yeah, true. You get two
(29:33):
Quicksilvers. Yeah, because I was going to say Michael Rooker as well in Super, who plays Yondu
in Guardians. But yeah, you do get Aaron Taylor Johnson, who plays Quicksilver in the MCU.
I mean, actually, they both technically play in the MCU. I was going to say,
Evan Peters plays them in the Fox X-Men series, but then he also plays them in WandaVision.
(29:58):
Yeah. And also now Foxman by Disney. But I don't think that technically makes them MCU
retroactively or anything. No. But yeah, so you've got the Fox Quicksilver and the MCU Quicksilver,
which is a weird thing. Yeah, and I'm talking about superheroes. Yeah, in 2010. Yeah. Because
(30:21):
I had totally forgotten Evan Peters was in it. I think I just had no concept of who he was at
the time. I mean, I didn't know who Aaron Taylor Johnson was at the time either, but he was the
lead in the movie and then went on to do a bunch of other things. So the name, the familiarity still
got me. You see him in other things and I go, oh, that's kick-ass. Whereas Evan Peters has been in
a bunch of things more recently, but there was a big, I feel like there was a big gap for him,
(30:46):
or at least in terms of well-known films or big roles. That scene is so fantastic. The Quicksilver
scene in the X-Men. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Actually both, because I think all the movies that came
after that all had like slow-mo scenes. Because I think spoilers for another movie, because he
(31:13):
saves them when the skull blows up. Yeah. It's Days of Future Past, right? No, Days of Future
Past is when it has the kitchen scene. It's when they break Magneto out. So was it first class?
No, because that's the first one. Yeah, I didn't think it was the first one. Days of Future Past
(31:35):
is the second one. Yeah, but the third one was Apocalypse. Yeah, and I haven't seen...
I haven't seen Dark Phoenix. Yeah. But I thought it was Days of Future Past when he...
No, it's the kitchen scene....saves him from the school. What's the one for the school then?
I'm pretty sure it's Apocalypse. Oh, so that one came second? Well, it's the fourth movie, yeah.
(31:56):
The third one? Fourth. What's the third one? That's a good question. What was the third one?
No, so it's first class and then... is it... no, it doesn't... is that right? Days of Future
Past is the second one? Yeah, that's what I said. Bizarre. Isn't it? Now you're just confusing me.
(32:22):
I'm confused myself. Okay, so first class... yeah, first class, Days of Future Past, Apocalypse,
Dark Phoenix. Oh, okay. There was only four. It felt like... No, because it was originally like a
trilogy and then they made Dark Phoenix afterwards. Days of Future Past is such a good movie.
Given Bacon's also in... Ant-Man movies, yeah. What are you looking at? I'm gonna look up the
(32:51):
Quicksilver, Slow Mo, House Rescue scene. You're just gonna watch a video? No, I'm not gonna...
I'm gonna figure out what movie... Days of Future Past! No, it's not! It's literally Days of Future
Past! That movie has two Quicksilver scenes on it. Possibly. Days of Future Past. So what was the
(33:13):
kitchen one you want? The kitchen one's when they break Magneto out. Kitchen scene.
They break Magneto. Also Days of Future Past. Yeah, they're both in Days of Future Past.
That's so weird. Can I just say that the phrase Days of Future Past sounds so weird to me now,
because I've said it so many times. Are you gonna put a rogue cut at the end of it? Rogue cut? Yeah.
(33:37):
It's when they brought Anna Paquin in, because it makes sense. She's a TV. Yeah.
Anyway, Evan Peters was a great Quicksilver. Maybe controversial opinion, Evan Peters is a
better Quicksilver than Aaron Taylor Johnson. Well, he didn't get a chance. He's like... He also was
kind of shit, but I don't know if that was him or the MCU not writing it well. I think the Evan
(34:04):
Peters Quicksilver was written... The way they did it in the movie, it was produced very well.
And I think he did a good job with it. And I thought it was very funny that he shows up in
Wandavision. Yeah. Because it's supposed to be her brother, and it's like, this isn't... Yeah,
it's the wrong actor. It's the guy. And it's a weird meta moment, and I think it's very funny.
(34:24):
Yeah, because I don't think there's much of that outside of Deadpool. Yeah. I mean,
Wandavision definitely did some meta stuff. Yeah. If you haven't seen it, go see Deadpool
Wolverine. Yeah. Because I don't want to spoil any of that movie. Yeah. Because that's a dead movie.
We're not going to say anything about it. But if you like these movies...
(34:49):
Yeah. If you like... If you like ultra-violent... If you like violent superhero vigilante movies,
you probably will like the Deadpool movies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we did happen to go see a
screening of it where people walked out during the opening scene. Yeah. So if you're not a fan
(35:11):
of seeing violence on screen, you might not enjoy it. You might also walk out during the opening
scene. But at least they let you know early on what to expect. I think it pretty much gave it away
with a condom ad in the trailers, honestly. Yeah, that whole sequence IRL was very bizarre.
(35:33):
Weirded me out a little bit. Because it's like... What, people leaving? Yeah. The cinema?
Because most people know what they're getting into these days. I mean, the weirdest thing about it
for me was that this is the third movie in a trilogy. So did they not see the first two?
If you've seen the first two, that opening sequence isn't shocking. Yeah. So did they not see the first
(36:00):
two? What did they think they were going to see? And also, I can say I booked tickets online to see
the screening. And it gave me a warning before I booked it. It was like, this is for over 16s.
It's got violence, it's got whatever. Don't buy this if you're not over 16. And then they sent me
(36:20):
an email being like, reminder, it's over 16. And then they sent me another email being like, hey,
just a reminder. It is rated over 16s. You might need to bring ID. Don't be offended if we ask for
ID. It does have all these warnings. So I don't understand how this mom and kid got into the...
(36:41):
I say kid. Well, presumably he's over 16. But he was probably 16, 17, clearly with his mother.
Yeah. Or in the screening of it. But I don't understand how they could have gotten into
see Deadpool and Wolverine with no knowledge that it was a violent movie. How do you not know?
(37:04):
Like, I don't understand. It was so jarring as well, because like,
no, I'm not going to talk about how good the movie is. Go see it. Yeah. Go see the movie if you're
not... Yeah, the opening is amazing. And it's just like, oh, they're leaving. It's like,
yeah, why were they here? Because they couldn't have walked into the... Because I thought,
like, you know, I had a thought that maybe they're in the wrong screen and they should have been in
(37:27):
the other screen. They were seeing something for the film festival or whatever. But like,
then you would have left as soon as it came up that it was an MCU film. Because you'd be like,
oh, it's not, you know, or when Deadpool appears on screen for the first time, not like,
you know, five minutes into a opening violent fight scene. Yeah. Was it weird? Just weird.
(37:50):
Yeah. Back to the violence in these films. Less jarring, I think, than when we saw Avatar 2,
though. What do you mean? Oh, because there's someone like, shouting at the screen. Yeah,
there was a lady shouting at the characters to do stuff. Yeah, that was weird. Okay.
Yeah, it's like we're in a cinema. That's what we get for going to the movies in the middle of
(38:10):
the day in a weekday. Back when we could. Yeah, back to these movies. Yeah, it's very interesting
having them so closely related to like two massive franchises. And, you know, one of them got a sequel,
which was kick-ass, super dead-end, because it's sort of like nicely wrapped up with the ending
(38:37):
of, you know, Sarah playing my love, Tyler, not even being with Rainn Wilson at the end of it,
because she was just like trying to find her place in her life. And now he's like this guy
who just draws comics and puts them on his wall. No. No? They're drawings from her kids.
Are they? Yeah. She said, oh my God. He, like, the whole thing was that, like, he was, you know,
(39:05):
he accepts that his role in the world that he, because he has a whole thing where he thinks
he's been chosen by God. And then he has this realization that he's not the one chosen by God,
it's her. And that he got all these visions allegedly so that he could save her, so that she
could go back to school and she could, you know, find this other guy and marry him and have these
(39:26):
kids and she could have this life where she's doing good. And it doesn't matter that he's
unimportant because without him, she wouldn't still be alive. Without him, these kids wouldn't
exist. And she sends him the drawings her kids do in the, in the post. You see him getting the post
and it's like, you know, Uncle Frank and stuff on the drawings. And then he has them plastered all
(39:51):
over his wall. Oh, I thought it was, okay. I thought it was his hand drawing his life. Weird. Okay.
Now I want to know, is there, like, I'm going to look up the Wikipedia plot first to see if it's
mentioned. People can tell us, people can join our Discord and tell us what way you interpreted it.
I just looked up, I literally just Googled the word super and it gave me a definition.
(40:13):
Yeah. Yeah. I had that exactly same thing.
Cause I definitely interpreted it as there were the kids drawings.
Maybe it was both. Maybe.
Cause it is like him right, like drawing out as like the biblical moments, like in his life of
him getting married. Oh yeah, true. Yeah. Cause he had done that.
(40:35):
He had done that. Helping a cop out and then her being like the hands are too big.
Cause at the beginning he had just two, he had only had two good moments in his life.
Yeah. Okay. It says, yeah, it refers to it as his wall of happy memories. So it doesn't specify in
this hoodrhythm, but it says it's the walls covered with pictures of his experiences from his time
(40:56):
spent with Libby and pictures of Sarah's children who call him Uncle Frank. So.
Cause there's no way the kids would have drawn the picture of Libby.
Right. Cause she was shot in the head before they were born.
Yeah. Okay. Maybe it was probably a mix.
Yeah. Because there's no way you would do a self-portrait that crappy of you with a
(41:19):
rabbit on your head. Yeah. I think it's a mix. I think he's got,
I think he's continuing to draw his memory, his happy memories, but also he's putting up
the drawings of the kids. Yeah.
Okay. So it's a, we've, we're both correct. Yeah. The best kind.
Yeah. Where no one's wrong. I think that's right. But yeah, but his whole
(41:41):
thing is that I do appreciate that. I think that's good that like his character,
cause you know, the whole way through it, it's him trying to get Sarah back. Yeah.
And I think it's good that it's not like a possessive thing that then like he doesn't
get upset or mad when she leaves him. You know, he says, he acknowledges that like she stayed
with him for a couple of months, probably out of her own self self or sense of obligation.
(42:05):
But now she's, you know, she's leading her AA group or whatever and she's, and she's
gone and got her degree and she's living this life and she's got these kids and you know,
and he feels content having helped facilitate that. He doesn't seem to feel in any way jealous
(42:25):
over the relationship that she has with her husband or anything like that. But I think that's,
I think that is good. Yeah. Yeah. Because they could easily have had it that he was,
you know, angry or whatever over her, you know, doing all this for her and then her not even being
his. Do you want to move into some trivia? Do you want to, is there anything else you want to say
(42:47):
about the movies? Not really. I think we covered it off pretty, pretty thoroughly. Like the, the
movies are very similar. They came out at the same time. You know, it's the differences are very
jarring. Hmm. I will say we haven't really talked about, um, Hit Girl and Big Daddy much. I think
(43:11):
the only real superhero in either of these movies is Hit Girl. I guess. Um, you know, she's like,
I mean, first of all, she's actually trained to do what she's doing, but also like, you know,
she has the spirit to go to be like, no, we're going to do this. We're going to follow it through.
(43:32):
We're going to get whatever. And then she actually, like, she shows up, like she gets shot at and you
think she's dead. And then, well, I mean, we know that she's practiced for it. And then she like,
shows up and wipes out all the guys live on camera and then has her like badass, like shows over folks,
shoots the camera moment. And then she like wipes out a whole floor of guys in this, this guy,
(43:56):
Frank's home. Um, like she's way cooler than any of the other characters, like hero characters.
That's the whole like how she's written and how she's perceived. Yeah. Yeah. Also the acting.
Yeah. I like, I, cause I knew Chloe Grace Moretz was only like 13 during this film, but like,
it's weird to go back and watch it. Like having seen her act and things as an adult and stuff,
(44:20):
it's weird to go back and be like, whoa, she was like just a teeny tiny baby in this movie.
The fact she learned how to do the bell song tricks is fantastic. Yeah. That's so good.
Also, I love the, um, though I mean that, that is in the trivia, so I suppose we can,
we can segue into trivia. Um, the big daddy, like part of how he disguises identity while he's in
(44:44):
character is big daddy. Increases the length of his mustache. Yeah. Cause he has, you know, as,
as, um, Damon, he has a mustache and then as big daddy, he just has a bigger mustache. Yeah.
And apparently that was Nick Cage's idea. Of course it was. Nick Cage came up with the idea
that like his disguise would be that Damon McReady has a mustache with big daddy has a larger mustache
with adhesive extensions. Um, so I suppose I'll stick with. It's probably one of the only other
(45:11):
movies where it shows people putting on eyeliner. Yeah. Yeah. He paints around his eyes in black.
Yeah. Um, because it always annoyed the shadow to me in the Nolan Batman movies. Yeah. Not so much
with that Batman, the Robert Patterson one. He doesn't. Yeah. He puts the, the black on his eyes.
Just get an airbrush. They're like, get a makeup airbrush. They're like $30 on AliExpress. Yeah.
(45:36):
Just paint around your eyes so that then it's like blends in with your mask. Yeah. Um, also yeah,
cause red mist does that as well. Cause he takes off his mask and he's got like panned eyes. Yeah.
And it pisses me off when like Christian Bale took his mask off and just didn't have any black
around his eyes. And I was like, what? Like you keep makeup wipes in your utility belt, sir? Maybe.
(45:58):
Um, so I was, we'll stick with trivia for kick ass, I guess, cause we were already on that. Um,
um, the hit girls entrance, her first entrance as hit girl, um, originally didn't have the
swearing in it, but it wasn't like working as well as it could. And it was Chloe Grace
Moretz as mother who suggested, and apparently like Chloe Grace Moretz at the time was like, so
(46:27):
not into saying curse words that like she would do it for the film, but then like outside of
filming, she wouldn't even say the name of the film because she didn't want to say the word ass.
So in like any interviews with her around the time, she just refers to it as the film.
And apparently at home she calls it kick butt, which is cute. She's like 13 year old kid in this
movie, but like on screen she's swearing up a storm. Um, but I think it was funny that her,
(46:53):
her mom suggested it. Um, so Matthew Vaughn who did the movie. So there's a whole lot of weird
I think Matthew, Matthew Vaughn who directed the movie was originally supposed to direct the first
Thor movie. Um, and then backed out of it, but he was working with Mark Miller who wrote kick ass,
(47:19):
um, for ideas on Thor. I think Mark Miller reached out to him with ideas for Thor and then
and then they, and then when Matthew Vaughn was going to make a different superhero movie,
he wanted Mark Miller's ideas and they had like, or no, I think they were, they just wanted to make
a movie together. So they had kind of pitched ideas. They're like, apparently one of their
(47:42):
ideas was to do like a sequel to the Bible. Um, I don't know how that would have gone, but then
they met each other at the premiere, the London premiere for Stardust, which Matthew Vaughn also
made. Um, and at the premiere for Stardust, Mark Miller pitched his idea for kick ass
(48:02):
to Matthew Vaughn and that's how they ended up making the movie. Um, he also, Matthew Vaughn did
the movie for free on, but put it in his contract that the only condition that he wouldn't be paid
in money would be that he gets to keep the mist mobile at the end of the movie. So he owns that
car. Um, he says he finds it too powerful to actually drive it. Uh, but that was, that was
(48:26):
his payment for writing, directing, producing the film was that he got to keep the car. Um, and he
also like had approached a whole load of studios and was rejected by all of them. Um, largely
because apparently a lot of them gave him an ultimatum and the ultimatum was either get rid
of hit girl or make her 19. And he was like, no, I'm not going to do that. And keeping the
(48:53):
13 year old in here. Um, so I just found some trivia. Apparently the two sequels are letting
me finish the trivia. I was sorry. Okay. Continue then. Why? What's the point? Just continue. So
he raised, because they got rejected by all the studios, he raised the budget at a dinner party
and made the movie independently. And then was a ended up selling the rights to universal for more
(49:20):
money than he originally asked for when he approached them first. Classic. Yeah. What was
your bit of trivia? Oh, there's two sequels coming to which to kick ass. Yeah. So there's only one so
far, right? Yeah. Why is they, why have they waited so long? I have no idea. I just found that like,
it's called school fights and it's more like pre-production. Weird. Okay. Is there only one
(49:46):
so far or is there actually more? I'm not sure. I haven't seen any sequel to it. There might've
been a second one, right? Second one what? Second sequel. To what? Kick ass. Yeah. There's literally
two more movies coming. No, no, I thought there might've been another one. I thought there might
have been a kick ass three in between, but not the other. So kick ass in 2010, kick ass two in 2013
(50:12):
and then 10 years later, more than 10 years later. Very weird. That's strange.
But then you look at like a lot of reboots at the moment are very, very popular.
Yeah, true. Like no one until, well, I say recently, but like recently in the grand
scheme of time with Furiosa coming from like Mad Max, Fury Road and there was something else
(50:39):
that just, oh, Romulus. Yeah. Cause it was sort of like aliens are back and then, oh, they died
again because it was like Prometheus was not Prometheus. What was the second one? Covenant.
Covenant was just such a weirdly done movie with the fact they had to watch a bunch of
things online to understand who the characters were before them like going to the movie.
(51:01):
I mean that's what MCU was done. Yeah. But like we went to see Deadpool and Wolverine and I had
to hear me like, Hey, you haven't watched Loki. So let me tell you about it. Oh, so that would be
my recommendation is you don't need to watch all the MCU stuff, but maybe watch Loki before
you watch Deadpool and Wolverine if you want to get all the ins and outs of it. And also Deadpool 1 and 2.
Yeah, true. So, sorry, trivia for Super. Oh yeah. I've already kind of given out most of it. I will
(51:33):
say it was shot over 24 days. So they did it in less than a month. And it is James Gunn's lowest
grossing film. Yeah. But I've already covered all the rest of the trivia I had on that. Cause we kind
of talked about it throughout the thing. Do you want to talk budget and box office? Cause they came
out the same year. So we can compare them. Do you know the budgets and box office? Sometimes you do.
(51:55):
What would you guess is the higher budget film? And so the look on your face means it's Super.
No, it's not. You tricked me. You did a trickery. Do you have any, any guess on what the budgets are
for the movie? I'm going to say 15 and 25. Dollars? Million. Million. Low on one and high on the other.
(52:24):
So the budget for Super was 2.5 million. Okay. And the budget for Kick Ass was 30 million. Okay. I
don't know what kind of dinner parties Matthew Vaughan is throwing that he could raise 30 million
dollars at a dinner party. But fair enough. Do you know, do you, what would you think is better at
(52:45):
box office? Kick Ass. Any idea by how much? Like I'm going to say double. So I'm going to say it
made 60 with the other one made like 10. I mean that's more, that's six times anyway. I mean like
double as in double the cost. Oh, double the cost. Uh, no, it made more than that actually. So Kick
(53:08):
Ass actually made 96 million dollars. That sounds good. So more than triple the cost. Super. Made
less? Less than what? Less than 96 million? Definitely. No, I was going to say less than its
budget. Less than its budget. Yes. Wow. Way less than its budget. 422,000. That doesn't seem right.
(53:29):
On a 2.5 million dollar budget. That's bananas. Um, so it's no wonder it's licitous. His closest
grossing film. Uh, he just didn't make any money with that one. That, that does feel like ridiculous,
but apparently that's correct. Uh, oh, there's another estimation here that says they made 590,000
(53:51):
but still like we're in the ballpark of 500,000, which is a fifth of the budget. Um,
so not great for super. I mean I did say that I didn't see it in cinema. Yeah. Um, maybe it didn't
even get a release where I was. I'm not sure to be honest. But uh, yeah. Pretty good. Didn't do
(54:14):
very well. Which I feel like it should have done better than that. I don't think it was, I don't
think it's like absolutely mind blowing, fantastic. But definitely at the time it was quite novel.
Yeah. Um, and it's just, yeah, a little bit odd. It didn't, oh, so it did make a bunch of DVD
(54:34):
Blue-ray sales. Yeah. Um, this is an estimate from August 2011. So about a year after it came out,
it had made 1.2 million in DVD Blue-ray sales, which is still less than its budget. Yeah.
Yeah. Um, yeah, it's a, I guess it was a, you know, a kind of a polarizing film.
(54:58):
It was very violent. It was an indie film. It was, you know, not, I mean, James Gunn is a huge name
now, but I don't think at the time he was. Uh, what had he made at that point actually? Cause
I don't think he'd made a lot. Um, oh, he had done, so he had, Super. So he hadn't done anything in a
(55:23):
few years actually. His, it was his second movie that he directed. The first movie he directed was
Slither in 2006. Have you seen Slither? No, I haven't. And he had done, he had written a few films,
which were Tromeo and Juliet, The Specials, Scooby-Doo and Dawn of the Dead and Scooby-Doo,
Two Monsters Unleashed. So he had written the Scooby-Doo movies, which were pretty good. Um,
(55:48):
and then his directorial debut was Slither and then he did Super. And then the next film that
he wrote and directed after Super is Guardians of the Galaxy. So, I mean, he did well for himself
in that regard that like he went, you know, he might not have made a lot of money on, on Super,
but then the next, and then from that he got into Guardians of the Galaxy. Um, and obviously he's
(56:14):
made quite a lot of money doing the, you know, the three Guardians movies. Um, made quite a name for
himself nowadays, but like at that point he was, he was nobody. Matthew Vaughn had only, the only
thing he had written and directed at that point was, I think he had directed Layer Cake, but then
he had, the only film that he had both written and directed before Kick Ass was Stardust, which we've
(56:39):
already covered on the podcast. I really liked Stardust. Um, but he's made a whole lot of things
since then as well. Uh, I can't remember what they were. I did look at a list earlier of what
Matthew Vaughn had done. Um, yeah, so he did, oh, X-Men First Class and then he did the Days of
(56:59):
Future Past and then he did the Kingsman movies. So he did Kingsman Secret Service, Golden Circle
and The King's Man. And he also directed and produced Argyle, which we've seen relatively recently
as well. Um, so I mean, they've both gone on to make pretty decent names for themselves, I think
in the meantime. Uh, I feel like Matthew Vaughn was a bigger name at the time than James Gunn, but like,
(57:24):
still hadn't done a lot. Um, but he did, yeah, he didn't, he wrote, he wrote and directed X-Men
First Class and then he wrote the story, but not the script for Days of Future Past. And he didn't
direct it, but he produced it. And then he wrote, directed and produced the Three Kingsman movies.
Those are also like super violent and also randomly have Mark Strong in them.
(57:48):
Yeah, true. Um, it doesn't, it doesn't surprise me that the guy who wrote Kick-Ass also did the
Kingsman movies. They're in the same kind of vein of like regular dudes. Ultra-violence.
Ending up doing some kind of ultra-violence thing. Um, yeah.
If you want to find us online to listen to more of our podcasts, because you've randomly stumbled
(58:11):
across this, go to our website. It takes two.co.nz and you can find everything there with our RSS
feed and, um, all links to wherever you can listen to a podcast, YouTube channel, um, and links to
our Discord, but those will be in the show notes. Um, I always say comments and get frowned at.
(58:32):
I don't think you've ever said comments. I don't. Oh, okay. I think you said in the description,
maybe the description. You're used to a like video. I mean on YouTube it's in the description.
Yeah, true. Um, so thank you for listening to our episode about Super and Kick-Ass.
Let us know your thoughts by reviewing this or joining our Discord or leaving a comment
(58:53):
wherever you watch this or listen to this. All right. Goodbye. Bye.
Music
(00:19):
Hi everyone, I'm Lisa.
And I'm Nick.
And you're listening to It Takes Two, the podcast where two people take two movies with the same plot or premise and watch and discuss them.
In this episode, number 81.
The first time you've ever remembered what episode we're on.
Yeah, that's because we just did the previous one which was 80.
(00:39):
And I can do basic arithmetic.
Superheroes Without Superpowers. It's Super and Kick-Ass, both from 2010 which is interesting.
Yeah, they're twin films. Proper twin films.
Proper twin films. It's about time.
It's the first time we've done.
No.
We've done many twin films.
(01:00):
Yeah, these are both movies about like regular people deciding to dress up in costume and fight crime badly.
Shut up, crime.
Shut up, crime.
Obviously spoilers for every episode and including this one.
Yes.
This one's not special. It will be spoiled.
(01:22):
Yeah, both of these movies. Obviously the motivation of the characters are different.
Yeah.
One is a teenager who's just like...
Why has no one ever decided to do this?
And the other one's Rainn Wilson and he's lost his beautiful wife to Kevin Bacon.
I thought you were going to say his mind.
(01:43):
That too.
No. Yeah, the tone of these movies are both kind of silly and there's a little bit of reality in both of them but they are both sub-reality movies.
Yeah, definitely sub-reality. A lot of violence. I think when I saw them originally back around 2010, I don't think I saw either of these in cinema but you know whenever I did see them,
(02:12):
I think I liked Super more but...
Re-watching it?
Re-watching it, it really doesn't sit well with me and it's mainly that one scene. You know what scene I'm talking about.
Yeah, we'll get to that scene later.
Okay.
Unless you want to talk about it now.
I mean we can if we want to talk totally out of order but it's up to you.
(02:33):
No, you can do whatever you want.
Okay. I mean a little bit of a trigger warning here for sexual assault and rape. Super has a scene that plays the rape of a man for laughs.
Yeah, like most movies do.
(02:54):
I mean, no, most movies don't have a scene where they...
I'm saying that when it happens it's always for a comical effect.
It shouldn't be. I think The Boys toed a line with it in the recent season. I'm not going to go into details like that because I don't want to spoil The Boys for people but there is a scene that to some extent is supposed to be comical but also is showing tenseness and also how devoid they are of how far they've got into this journey that literally they will accept any horrible shit happening.
(03:27):
Yeah.
And I think that didn't hit me as strongly as this one whereas in Super it's very much a joke that this guy is getting sexually assaulted by a 22 year old and that he literally gets raped by her.
(03:51):
That's what happens.
And what really pisses me off about it, I mean, I think it's terrible to begin with because obviously, you know, there is a huge kind of stigmatization around talking about the sexual assault and rape of men.
You know, and it's something that's trivialized and something that like people will say, you know, doesn't happen but it does happen and it's just as serious as the sexual assault or rape of anyone else.
(04:18):
But it's the fact that they play this scene for laughs, like it's a joke that this guy is getting raped and then immediately after that, they're going to try and save his wife and they up the stakes by implying she's going to get raped.
Yeah.
And it's like, oh, this is serious now because this woman is going to get raped.
(04:39):
Yeah.
And it's like, but you just showed a man getting raped. You showed it on screen and said it was funny.
And now you're like, oh, but now things are different because it's really serious because this woman is going to get raped.
Yeah.
And that just really, I think, removed any credit I could give to the movie.
Yeah.
I mean, anything good about that movie, I think was overwritten by that decision.
(05:05):
Yeah.
Which is unfortunate.
It's also, obviously, it's been 14 years.
Yeah.
But in saying that.
I don't think it's changed that much.
No.
I think people, I don't think like, because I was going to say it's aged badly, but actually, I don't think a lot of people would agree that it's aged badly because I think people are still putting that kind of shit.
(05:30):
It's, I had to quickly Google it because I couldn't remember the title because there's been a few movies with days on them that doesn't make any sense out of context.
40 Days and 40 Nights is a romantic comedy I saw. I don't know, remember when? Early 2000s, it came out in 2002.
Right.
And it has a very similar scene in it. And it sort of just glossed over for the whole movie.
(05:55):
Yeah.
It comes in like third act, but you're just like, oh, for those who haven't seen that movie, I'm not going to spoil it for you. But yeah, it's supposed to be a romantic comedy about a guy who's getting laid so much that getting laid doesn't mean anything to me.
So he got me like, sorry, to me, to him, that he gives up sex for 40 days and 40 nights.
(06:17):
Right.
And it's just like a bunch of shenanigans that happened because he's like, I can't remember the guy. He's been in a few things. He's in Sin City. He was in 30 Days of Night, which is why I had to look it up.
Right.
Josh Hartnett.
Oh, okay.
He plays the main guy. But yeah.
(06:40):
Yeah, there's a weird amount of comedies because I mean, Super is a comedy.
Yeah, it's definitely a black comedy.
Yeah, I mean, it's definitely it's not like a lighthearted comedy by any matter of means. But there's a weird amount of comedies that are like, haha, it's so funny when a man gets sexually assaulted.
And it's like, it's not. Can we just stop doing that?
It's also the gay being used as a slur in both movies.
(07:04):
In both movies. Yeah. Also, they both use the R slur.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's a I mean, Elliot Page's character in Super is like, I think the character of Libby was supposed to be like wet dream fantasy for teenage boys because she just talks like a teenage boy in the internet and the citizens.
(07:26):
Yeah.
You know what I mean? Like, that's her whole thing is that like, oh, she's a girl who works in a comic shop and she's into comics and she's into superhero stuff and she loves violence.
And she's so non-PC and she uses gay as a slur and she uses, you know, all those other I can't even remember other language she is. But like, it was her whole opening like intro, how she speaks.
(07:49):
Yeah.
Was very like, dudebro. And it was like, oh, this is like, you like this was trying to get the attention of like, teenage boys at the time who are going to be like, oh, my God, she's just like one of us. She's so cool.
There's also the overly weirdly quirky reverse of that because Rainn Wilson plays the convenience store guy in Juno.
(08:11):
Yeah.
And his dialogue is bizarre.
In Juno?
In Juno.
Yeah.
It's funny because it's not hurtful, but like, it's still very weird.
Yeah, it's I'm going to go straight into my we're doing things all backwards here today, folks.
I'm going to go straight into my trivia stuff. But it's just because you're talking about that. So Rainn Wilson.
(08:34):
So this movie is made by James Gunn, famous for doing Guardians of Galaxy, et cetera, et cetera.
James Gunn used to be married to Jenna Fisher, who is I've never watched the office. Pam. Pam on the office, the American office.
Okay.
And he asked her to read over the script. They were not I think they were divorced already at this point, but they were friends.
(09:00):
And he had sent her the script and she was reading over it while she was on the set of The Office.
And then she was like, hey, my buddy Rainn Wilson, you should read this script.
And then Rainn Wilson was like, heck, yes, he read the script once and was like, I want to do this movie.
And then he also immediately sent his copy of the script to Elliot Page because he had loved working with Elliot Page on Juno.
(09:27):
And he was like, this person is going to be great for this movie.
So it was very much a like, you know, friend of a friend situation that they ended up both being in it, which I thought was kind of funny.
Super is a little bit more deranged as a movie.
Than Kick Ass.
Yeah, because Kick Ass is like.
(09:48):
Kick Ass feels more mainstream.
Yeah.
I mean, I know they were both trying to go kind of out there indie weird superhero thing.
Yeah.
I know this was right at the beginning of MCU.
Yeah.
Because it's two years after Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk.
I think Thor came out around this time, 2009 or 2010.
(10:11):
Anyway, it was right at the beginning of the MCU happening, so superhero movies were just coming back.
Yeah.
And then both these movies came out.
But definitely Kick Ass feels more mainstream.
Yeah.
Where Super was clearly targeting weirder audiences.
It was targeting the kind of audience who liked Juno, I guess.
(10:32):
Yeah.
And there's a lot of subtleness to the movie that's less well...
With Kick Ass, I find that you get the set up and you get the motivation and then you
get his call to adventure and then you see how he gets sort of superpowers, but not really.
(11:00):
Yeah.
And then it sort of just escalates from there into him being like,
I'm going to help people like a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, help people find their cats.
And then I go viral on the internet and everybody wants my help now on MySpace of all things.
Also, because I was thinking about that when we were watching it,
(11:22):
the concept of these people on their flip phones recording it and then it going viral
and being the most watched thing on the internet.
Yeah, with five million views.
The fact that that was the thing that they made, they made this film in 2010.
Or they probably shot it in 2009 or wrote it before that.
And the fact that in late 2000s, they wrote about how the superhero became famous by going
(11:47):
viral online was interesting because then obviously that's now a dime a dozen in today's society.
You get your five minutes of fame by going viral, and then people forget about you immediately.
Yeah, it's like in the last six months, we've had so much stuff happen that's gone viral.
And it's like, I think the Olympics has really helped because people are just like so on the ball
(12:13):
and there's just constantly new stuff and you just put some text into it and like that poor guy
who lost his thing because his dick touched the pole.
Right.
Yeah, everyone knows about that.
And it's just like, it's...
Our news cycle, this is definitely going to date when we're talking about this.
(12:34):
But our news cycle has become so fast paced that very recently there was an assassination
attempt against a former president of the United States and people immediately moved on from it.
Yeah.
Like people have kind of forgotten that already because so many other things have happened in
the meantime and we hear about them all constantly.
(12:54):
Yeah, so like...
I'm not even a person who is paying as much attention to the news as other people are.
Yeah.
And it's just like, it's gone.
Yeah, you went from that hock to girl to Trump getting assassinated to JD Vance being
picked to JD Vance talking about the whole couch fucking of JD Vance to...
(13:16):
Biden dropping out of the race.
Biden dropping out of the race and Trump saying to an audience of people of color that
Kamala Harris isn't black and she's just changed to being black to be diversity.
And also, yeah, to date I said it recently because when I saw the launch happen,
(13:40):
I would not be getting in a fucking spaceship made by Boeing if they can't make a plane without
the wings, like the doors flying off it. And now the fucking astronauts are stuck there
until February. It's supposed to be eight days and they're going to be out there for eight months.
SpaceX had to bail them out by sending more food and clothing like so and like and they
(14:01):
switched freaking CEOs.
So this is the news coming from the United States to New Zealand.
Yeah.
It's so much.
Yeah, there's just so much happening. And like you said, in the midst of all this,
the Olympics is happening. There's everything about like social media
has told us about the Olympics.
The rumor was poison, then it wasn't poison, then they had some rain and now it's poison.
(14:21):
The boxer that no one cared about when she lost in the quarterfinals of the
last Olympics, but now because she beat someone and everyone's like, well,
actually she's a man, even though...
It's illegal to be trans in the country and therefore if there was even a rumor
within the country, she never would have been sent.
Yeah, so she is a cis woman. I mean, also like if she was a trans woman, she would
(14:44):
still be a woman, but that's a whole other ballgame.
Like it's literally based on nothing except that people think she looks mannish and therefore,
you know, and it's coming to that whole, you know, head of transphobes.
The thing that we all know that transphobes,
(15:04):
terfs especially, you know, these like trans exclusionary radical feminists,
they're not feminists. They're like tradwives and they want all women to conform to their idea of
what a woman is and if you don't conform to what their idea of a woman is, then you must be a man.
And that's what we all knew was going to happen and then it awash.
Surprise, surprise, they see a woman they don't like and they're a cis woman they don't like and
(15:27):
they're like, it's a man. No, that's not how it works.
That's not how it works. Anyway, we've gone way off the rails.
How did we get here? Crimson Bolts is Rainn Wilson's
superhero alter ego and he hits people with wrenches and I always thought that was funny.
I think that's what's the funniest thing about that for me is that he literally goes to the
(15:49):
comic shop and gets Libby to show him like a bunch of different superheroes who use weapons
because he's like, I need, you know, inspiration, I need to get a weapon and like she gives him all
these, you know, like Batman, et cetera, you know, people who have who have like actual weapons and
he just goes home and then picks up like a wrench and is like, you know, dude, he smashes a melon
(16:10):
with it and it's like, hang on, what did you need the research for? It's not like any of these are
doing that, you know, yeah, it's very kick ass. He's got his like batons that he's using.
Yeah, which is interesting pick as well. Yeah, but he's clearly thought about it.
Yeah. And also that he goes out with weapons the first time. Yeah.
(16:32):
Where he's very muscly. Crimson Bolt's costume is so bad, it's good.
It's I mean, it definitely works as a guy who sewed his own costume together for his own design.
What I do my favorite part of the costume is what the zips are on the front.
He's made a question that he can easily get in and out of. Yeah, it makes so much sense.
(16:53):
I was like that like from a practicality point of view, of course, put your zip on the front so you
can get into the costume without help. Yeah. Why? Because kick asses zip is the whole way down his
back. Yeah, but it's also a wet suit. Yeah, but it's difficult. Have you ever put on a wet suit?
Yes. It is difficult. It is difficult, but especially by yourself. And a lot of wetsuits
(17:16):
will have like a long thing on it so that you can grab it and pull it up. His didn't seem to have
that in a way. Yeah. You don't want your enemies stripping you while you're fighting them.
Maybe they can do that anyway if you've got a zip. True. Maybe he's got one of those electric
things on the end of it like Batman's cowl. I think there was a multiple movies, I'm pretty sure.
(17:40):
Anyway, or at least in the comics or animated. Not Harley Quinn. Yeah, it's definitely there's
definitely a tonal difference. You know, kick ass is very reactionary until he meets up with Mindy
and Nicholas Cage. Damon. Damon. Also known as head girl and big daddy. Yeah. Yeah, and sort of like
(18:11):
in Super he gets beaten up and has to like hide at Libby's place. He gets shot. Yeah, he gets shot
and that's underneath like needs help. And Libby at this point is the only person who's kind of
figured it out. Yeah. And he denied it to her face before, but she just figured it out. So that's
(18:34):
where he goes. Yeah, she's a psychopath. She is literally a psychopath. Yeah. It's insane.
She's like, Oh, I know a guy who's committed a crime and that it's a guy that she thinks might
have cheated her friend's car. And then she wants to literally murder him. And she's like, Oh, I
didn't know that we weren't supposed to kill them. I'm only learning at this. It's like you work in
(18:55):
a comic book store like yeah, Balty as a super like the whole she's she is literally insane. Like
she's just like tackling maniacally at everything she does. That's it's yeah. It's it's it's
interesting. Some of the parts of that movie is still you know, but yeah, the tone shift is really
(19:24):
brought down. It's a bizarre choice. It's a bizarre choice to put that in the movie, which the whole
assault scene. Yeah. Because it's just like, oh, you know, but like we can't we as people can't
have sex, but superheroes can. Yeah, I mean, that's definitely playing into her character being an
(19:47):
absolute nut job. Like she's she really is like, like literally a psychopath or sociopath, no,
psychopath. She gets glee from hurting people. And you know, this plays into it that she's like,
just, you know, totally she is Jordan is she has no inhibition, I guess she has no like conscience,
(20:16):
there's nothing in there. She thinks she has a thought and she's like, I'm going to act on that.
Yeah. There's nothing stop here, even like the fact that she keeps saying his his his his actual
name. While they're doing stuff, I was gonna say his human name. Weird way to phrase it.
But she keeps calling him Frank. You know, whatever. Yeah. And he's like, stop saying that.
(20:38):
She's like, something what Frank? Oh, my God. There's no filter. Yeah. And it's not just in
her words in her actions. And you know, that's why she literally like can't stop herself from
like going to extremes and hurting people. And that also, you know, that plays into the assault
(20:59):
scene. That's why she's like, you know, she goes full ham on it. But it's just the fact. Yeah,
the fact that it's that that's like supposed to be a jokey thing is not great. Because you could
definitely you could still have the scene and make it clear that like actually like this is him
(21:19):
realizing that she's a real psychopath, you know, that she doesn't have control over her actions or
that she doesn't want to control her actions, you know, whatever. But instead, it's like,
haha, haha, funny, and then immediately forgotten. And they go to save his wife. Yeah. I would have
to say kick ass also has like a really ridiculous throwaway sex scene that's just in the movie for
(21:43):
no reason. Yeah, at least it's consenting. Yeah, it's consenting. Very weird. It's very weird that
they like, spend the night together after obviously spoilers, after he reveals himself to be kick
ass to the girl who thought he was gay. And they were like spending time together. And she's fine
(22:03):
with it almost instantly, which is bizarre. And then they're like hanging out in the comic book
shop. And then they have sex next to a dumpster at the fire exit. Yeah. And you're like, why is
this scene in the movie? So dumb. There's no reason for it. No, it's not artistic, like in Watchmen or,
(22:27):
you know, I think that seems actually really great for something like in a 90% weird movie. I should
really watch it. Watchmen came out around this time as well. Yeah, there was a big like, I think the
studios, all the production studios were like, shit, let's get. Yeah, I just like when they
(22:47):
just like, shotgun effect. Yeah, when the MCU started to kick off and they were like, oh shit,
this is successful. It was like every studio wanted a superhero franchise. Kick ass did become a
franchise, right? I've never seen the sequel. You haven't seen the sequel? No. Oh, okay. Is Red
Mist the villain in it? Yes. Okay, because the whole, because I was thinking when we get like,
(23:11):
towards the end of kick ass, I might, the thought that occurred to me is that this film feels like
it's less about kick ass and more of a villain origin story for Red Mist. Like the whole film
is a villain origin story for Red Mist. So I was like, he better be the villain in the second,
otherwise like what, that's a waste of a whole movie that they just turned into like,
(23:35):
it's literally a villain origin story. Yeah. Yeah. It's your dad being the guy you want to envy,
like look up to and then he gets fired out of a window by a bazooka and exploded. Yeah.
The guy that you thought was your friend. Yeah. But really didn't care about you when they came
down to it. Yeah. It's, yeah, kick ass is just overall a better movie. Holds up a lot better.
(24:03):
Still, you know, and then violence is a little bit more fun rather than visceral. Right.
Cause I like the- There's a lot of like head explosions in it.
Yeah. There's more, far more gun violence and people getting killed, but like a bullet
hitting somebody and then like them falling over and being dead is a little bit less
(24:26):
violent than someone smashing someone's head in repeatedly with a wrench. No, I mean super really
goes for the hyper violent aspect. You know, that's really what it's doing.
Cause even though like, obviously spoilers again, Libby's death, like Balti's death.
(24:46):
Is horrific. Yeah. I, I- Cause she goes full like X23 on it.
Yeah. But there's a, there's kind of foreshadowing to it in some, to some extent because they keep
emphasizing the height difference between them. And then like he, they both get shot at the same
range and his is, he takes it in the chest. And like, I mean, if you're thinking about it,
(25:08):
you're like, shit, her face is at his chest height. So then when you see her, it's like literally
half her face blown off, which is horrific. But it's also so abrupt.
Yeah, it really is. Cause they make a big deal about it going and buying like actual body armor
and stuff. And I think that's one of the like great scenes in Kick Ass is just like Mindy's
(25:34):
training to be hit girls, like literally wherever the hell they are, like in the docks and just
Nicholas Cage shooting her on the, on the premise that he would take her bowling afterwards.
Yeah. And it's, it's, you know, the, what they're training for so that she won't be scared when
someone else points a gun at her. Cause he's like, you know, someone else will point a gun at you.
(25:57):
Yeah. And so she, you know, it's so that she is prepared for that, which makes sense if you're
going into vigilante justice. They're the most prepared of everyone in both movies. They're the
only ones who are actually prepared for anything. And that's because his body armor is so big,
or anything. And that's because his background is that he's a cop. He was a cop. He was a cop,
(26:21):
went to prison. Yeah. He got framed, went to prison. So he's both a cop and someone who's
come out of prison. So he knows what he's talking about. Whereas, you know, both Kick Ass and Red
Bolt have no planning when they go into it first. They just like, they're like, I'm going to put on
(26:47):
this costume and I'm going to go out and wait around to fight crime, whatever. And I mean,
to some extent Kick Ass does a little bit of something because he tries to like teach himself
parkour. Whereas Crimson Bolt is just like sitting behind a dumpster waiting for a crime to happen.
Yeah. And then they both kind of get the shit kicked out on them the first time they try to
fight crime. At which point Crimson Bolt is like, oh, I need a weapon. And Kick Ass gets hit by a
(27:14):
car and goes to the hospital and gets all his bones replaced with metal. And messes up his nerve
endings so he can't like feel pain. Which is the weird like, oh, okay, you know, disbelief thing.
Because like, that's the thing about superheroes, that are always super. And there's very little
(27:36):
in the way of media. I think probably, because like, I think the big problem was the 80s,
90s action movies, where people would just walk off stuff that would be like, oh shit,
I need to go to the hospital now. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Since you've brought up
80s and 90s action movies, there was one of the trivia bits that I took down. And I'll just mention
(27:59):
that now because you've already brought them up. The role that Kevin Bacon plays in Super was not
supposed to be Kevin Bacon first. Okay. It was written for Jean-Claude Van Damme.
Which explains why his name is Jacques, which is a French name. Yeah, he was supposed to be
(28:23):
Jean-Claude Van Damme, but apparently he was like really hard to work with. And, yeah, that
doesn't surprise me. And basically, James Gunn said that he couldn't work, he couldn't risk
working with someone with that kind of personality on the thing. And then they replaced him with
Kevin Bacon last minute. But it was supposed to be Jean-Claude Van Damme. Because with the placement
of Kevin Bacon, it is such a Guardians of the Galaxy, like pre-casting. There's so many people
(28:51):
from the Guardians series that are in there. I mean, one of them is Sean Gunn, who is James Gunn's
brother. So that makes sense. Yeah. And James Gunn plays something like the weird Nathan Fillion.
Oh my god, I'd forgotten about it. Yeah. Again, Nathan Fillion's in Guardians 3.
(29:12):
Yeah, James Gunn plays like this devil who comes in Temp's high schoolers. In a TV show,
which you specify, within the universe of the thing. Yeah. And then the other one is the MCU,
because you get two fucking Quicksilvers in the same movie together. Yeah, true. You get two
(29:33):
Quicksilvers. Yeah, because I was going to say Michael Rooker as well in Super, who plays Yondu
in Guardians. But yeah, you do get Aaron Taylor Johnson, who plays Quicksilver in the MCU.
I mean, actually, they both technically play in the MCU. I was going to say,
Evan Peters plays them in the Fox X-Men series, but then he also plays them in WandaVision.
(29:58):
Yeah. And also now Foxman by Disney. But I don't think that technically makes them MCU
retroactively or anything. No. But yeah, so you've got the Fox Quicksilver and the MCU Quicksilver,
which is a weird thing. Yeah, and I'm talking about superheroes. Yeah, in 2010. Yeah. Because
(30:21):
I had totally forgotten Evan Peters was in it. I think I just had no concept of who he was at
the time. I mean, I didn't know who Aaron Taylor Johnson was at the time either, but he was the
lead in the movie and then went on to do a bunch of other things. So the name, the familiarity still
got me. You see him in other things and I go, oh, that's kick-ass. Whereas Evan Peters has been in
a bunch of things more recently, but there was a big, I feel like there was a big gap for him,
(30:46):
or at least in terms of well-known films or big roles. That scene is so fantastic. The Quicksilver
scene in the X-Men. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Actually both, because I think all the movies that came
after that all had like slow-mo scenes. Because I think spoilers for another movie, because he
(31:13):
saves them when the skull blows up. Yeah. It's Days of Future Past, right? No, Days of Future
Past is when it has the kitchen scene. It's when they break Magneto out. So was it first class?
No, because that's the first one. Yeah, I didn't think it was the first one. Days of Future Past
(31:35):
is the second one. Yeah, but the third one was Apocalypse. Yeah, and I haven't seen...
I haven't seen Dark Phoenix. Yeah. But I thought it was Days of Future Past when he...
No, it's the kitchen scene....saves him from the school. What's the one for the school then?
I'm pretty sure it's Apocalypse. Oh, so that one came second? Well, it's the fourth movie, yeah.
(31:56):
The third one? Fourth. What's the third one? That's a good question. What was the third one?
No, so it's first class and then... is it... no, it doesn't... is that right? Days of Future
Past is the second one? Yeah, that's what I said. Bizarre. Isn't it? Now you're just confusing me.
(32:22):
I'm confused myself. Okay, so first class... yeah, first class, Days of Future Past, Apocalypse,
Dark Phoenix. Oh, okay. There was only four. It felt like... No, because it was originally like a
trilogy and then they made Dark Phoenix afterwards. Days of Future Past is such a good movie.
Given Bacon's also in... Ant-Man movies, yeah. What are you looking at? I'm gonna look up the
(32:51):
Quicksilver, Slow Mo, House Rescue scene. You're just gonna watch a video? No, I'm not gonna...
I'm gonna figure out what movie... Days of Future Past! No, it's not! It's literally Days of Future
Past! That movie has two Quicksilver scenes on it. Possibly. Days of Future Past. So what was the
(33:13):
kitchen one you want? The kitchen one's when they break Magneto out. Kitchen scene.
They break Magneto. Also Days of Future Past. Yeah, they're both in Days of Future Past.
That's so weird. Can I just say that the phrase Days of Future Past sounds so weird to me now,
because I've said it so many times. Are you gonna put a rogue cut at the end of it? Rogue cut? Yeah.
(33:37):
It's when they brought Anna Paquin in, because it makes sense. She's a TV. Yeah.
Anyway, Evan Peters was a great Quicksilver. Maybe controversial opinion, Evan Peters is a
better Quicksilver than Aaron Taylor Johnson. Well, he didn't get a chance. He's like... He also was
kind of shit, but I don't know if that was him or the MCU not writing it well. I think the Evan
(34:04):
Peters Quicksilver was written... The way they did it in the movie, it was produced very well.
And I think he did a good job with it. And I thought it was very funny that he shows up in
Wandavision. Yeah. Because it's supposed to be her brother, and it's like, this isn't... Yeah,
it's the wrong actor. It's the guy. And it's a weird meta moment, and I think it's very funny.
(34:24):
Yeah, because I don't think there's much of that outside of Deadpool. Yeah. I mean,
Wandavision definitely did some meta stuff. Yeah. If you haven't seen it, go see Deadpool
Wolverine. Yeah. Because I don't want to spoil any of that movie. Yeah. Because that's a dead movie.
We're not going to say anything about it. But if you like these movies...
(34:49):
Yeah. If you like... If you like ultra-violent... If you like violent superhero vigilante movies,
you probably will like the Deadpool movies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we did happen to go see a
screening of it where people walked out during the opening scene. Yeah. So if you're not a fan
(35:11):
of seeing violence on screen, you might not enjoy it. You might also walk out during the opening
scene. But at least they let you know early on what to expect. I think it pretty much gave it away
with a condom ad in the trailers, honestly. Yeah, that whole sequence IRL was very bizarre.
(35:33):
Weirded me out a little bit. Because it's like... What, people leaving? Yeah. The cinema?
Because most people know what they're getting into these days. I mean, the weirdest thing about it
for me was that this is the third movie in a trilogy. So did they not see the first two?
If you've seen the first two, that opening sequence isn't shocking. Yeah. So did they not see the first
(36:00):
two? What did they think they were going to see? And also, I can say I booked tickets online to see
the screening. And it gave me a warning before I booked it. It was like, this is for over 16s.
It's got violence, it's got whatever. Don't buy this if you're not over 16. And then they sent me
(36:20):
an email being like, reminder, it's over 16. And then they sent me another email being like, hey,
just a reminder. It is rated over 16s. You might need to bring ID. Don't be offended if we ask for
ID. It does have all these warnings. So I don't understand how this mom and kid got into the...
(36:41):
I say kid. Well, presumably he's over 16. But he was probably 16, 17, clearly with his mother.
Yeah. Or in the screening of it. But I don't understand how they could have gotten into
see Deadpool and Wolverine with no knowledge that it was a violent movie. How do you not know?
(37:04):
Like, I don't understand. It was so jarring as well, because like,
no, I'm not going to talk about how good the movie is. Go see it. Yeah. Go see the movie if you're
not... Yeah, the opening is amazing. And it's just like, oh, they're leaving. It's like,
yeah, why were they here? Because they couldn't have walked into the... Because I thought,
like, you know, I had a thought that maybe they're in the wrong screen and they should have been in
(37:27):
the other screen. They were seeing something for the film festival or whatever. But like,
then you would have left as soon as it came up that it was an MCU film. Because you'd be like,
oh, it's not, you know, or when Deadpool appears on screen for the first time, not like,
you know, five minutes into a opening violent fight scene. Yeah. Was it weird? Just weird.
(37:50):
Yeah. Back to the violence in these films. Less jarring, I think, than when we saw Avatar 2,
though. What do you mean? Oh, because there's someone like, shouting at the screen. Yeah,
there was a lady shouting at the characters to do stuff. Yeah, that was weird. Okay.
Yeah, it's like we're in a cinema. That's what we get for going to the movies in the middle of
(38:10):
the day in a weekday. Back when we could. Yeah, back to these movies. Yeah, it's very interesting
having them so closely related to like two massive franchises. And, you know, one of them got a sequel,
which was kick-ass, super dead-end, because it's sort of like nicely wrapped up with the ending
(38:37):
of, you know, Sarah playing my love, Tyler, not even being with Rainn Wilson at the end of it,
because she was just like trying to find her place in her life. And now he's like this guy
who just draws comics and puts them on his wall. No. No? They're drawings from her kids.
Are they? Yeah. She said, oh my God. He, like, the whole thing was that, like, he was, you know,
(39:05):
he accepts that his role in the world that he, because he has a whole thing where he thinks
he's been chosen by God. And then he has this realization that he's not the one chosen by God,
it's her. And that he got all these visions allegedly so that he could save her, so that she
could go back to school and she could, you know, find this other guy and marry him and have these
(39:26):
kids and she could have this life where she's doing good. And it doesn't matter that he's
unimportant because without him, she wouldn't still be alive. Without him, these kids wouldn't
exist. And she sends him the drawings her kids do in the, in the post. You see him getting the post
and it's like, you know, Uncle Frank and stuff on the drawings. And then he has them plastered all
(39:51):
over his wall. Oh, I thought it was, okay. I thought it was his hand drawing his life. Weird. Okay.
Now I want to know, is there, like, I'm going to look up the Wikipedia plot first to see if it's
mentioned. People can tell us, people can join our Discord and tell us what way you interpreted it.
I just looked up, I literally just Googled the word super and it gave me a definition.
(40:13):
Yeah. Yeah. I had that exactly same thing.
Cause I definitely interpreted it as there were the kids drawings.
Maybe it was both. Maybe.
Cause it is like him right, like drawing out as like the biblical moments, like in his life of
him getting married. Oh yeah, true. Yeah. Cause he had done that.
(40:35):
He had done that. Helping a cop out and then her being like the hands are too big.
Cause at the beginning he had just two, he had only had two good moments in his life.
Yeah. Okay. It says, yeah, it refers to it as his wall of happy memories. So it doesn't specify in
this hoodrhythm, but it says it's the walls covered with pictures of his experiences from his time
(40:56):
spent with Libby and pictures of Sarah's children who call him Uncle Frank. So.
Cause there's no way the kids would have drawn the picture of Libby.
Right. Cause she was shot in the head before they were born.
Yeah. Okay. Maybe it was probably a mix.
Yeah. Because there's no way you would do a self-portrait that crappy of you with a
(41:19):
rabbit on your head. Yeah. I think it's a mix. I think he's got,
I think he's continuing to draw his memory, his happy memories, but also he's putting up
the drawings of the kids. Yeah.
Okay. So it's a, we've, we're both correct. Yeah. The best kind.
Yeah. Where no one's wrong. I think that's right. But yeah, but his whole
(41:41):
thing is that I do appreciate that. I think that's good that like his character,
cause you know, the whole way through it, it's him trying to get Sarah back. Yeah.
And I think it's good that it's not like a possessive thing that then like he doesn't
get upset or mad when she leaves him. You know, he says, he acknowledges that like she stayed
with him for a couple of months, probably out of her own self self or sense of obligation.
(42:05):
But now she's, you know, she's leading her AA group or whatever and she's, and she's
gone and got her degree and she's living this life and she's got these kids and you know,
and he feels content having helped facilitate that. He doesn't seem to feel in any way jealous
(42:25):
over the relationship that she has with her husband or anything like that. But I think that's,
I think that is good. Yeah. Yeah. Because they could easily have had it that he was,
you know, angry or whatever over her, you know, doing all this for her and then her not even being
his. Do you want to move into some trivia? Do you want to, is there anything else you want to say
(42:47):
about the movies? Not really. I think we covered it off pretty, pretty thoroughly. Like the, the
movies are very similar. They came out at the same time. You know, it's the differences are very
jarring. Hmm. I will say we haven't really talked about, um, Hit Girl and Big Daddy much. I think
(43:11):
the only real superhero in either of these movies is Hit Girl. I guess. Um, you know, she's like,
I mean, first of all, she's actually trained to do what she's doing, but also like, you know,
she has the spirit to go to be like, no, we're going to do this. We're going to follow it through.
(43:32):
We're going to get whatever. And then she actually, like, she shows up, like she gets shot at and you
think she's dead. And then, well, I mean, we know that she's practiced for it. And then she like,
shows up and wipes out all the guys live on camera and then has her like badass, like shows over folks,
shoots the camera moment. And then she like wipes out a whole floor of guys in this, this guy,
(43:56):
Frank's home. Um, like she's way cooler than any of the other characters, like hero characters.
That's the whole like how she's written and how she's perceived. Yeah. Yeah. Also the acting.
Yeah. I like, I, cause I knew Chloe Grace Moretz was only like 13 during this film, but like,
it's weird to go back and watch it. Like having seen her act and things as an adult and stuff,
(44:20):
it's weird to go back and be like, whoa, she was like just a teeny tiny baby in this movie.
The fact she learned how to do the bell song tricks is fantastic. Yeah. That's so good.
Also, I love the, um, though I mean that, that is in the trivia, so I suppose we can,
we can segue into trivia. Um, the big daddy, like part of how he disguises identity while he's in
(44:44):
character is big daddy. Increases the length of his mustache. Yeah. Cause he has, you know, as,
as, um, Damon, he has a mustache and then as big daddy, he just has a bigger mustache. Yeah.
And apparently that was Nick Cage's idea. Of course it was. Nick Cage came up with the idea
that like his disguise would be that Damon McReady has a mustache with big daddy has a larger mustache
with adhesive extensions. Um, so I suppose I'll stick with. It's probably one of the only other
(45:11):
movies where it shows people putting on eyeliner. Yeah. Yeah. He paints around his eyes in black.
Yeah. Um, because it always annoyed the shadow to me in the Nolan Batman movies. Yeah. Not so much
with that Batman, the Robert Patterson one. He doesn't. Yeah. He puts the, the black on his eyes.
Just get an airbrush. They're like, get a makeup airbrush. They're like $30 on AliExpress. Yeah.
(45:36):
Just paint around your eyes so that then it's like blends in with your mask. Yeah. Um, also yeah,
cause red mist does that as well. Cause he takes off his mask and he's got like panned eyes. Yeah.
And it pisses me off when like Christian Bale took his mask off and just didn't have any black
around his eyes. And I was like, what? Like you keep makeup wipes in your utility belt, sir? Maybe.
(45:58):
Um, so I was, we'll stick with trivia for kick ass, I guess, cause we were already on that. Um,
um, the hit girls entrance, her first entrance as hit girl, um, originally didn't have the
swearing in it, but it wasn't like working as well as it could. And it was Chloe Grace
Moretz as mother who suggested, and apparently like Chloe Grace Moretz at the time was like, so
(46:27):
not into saying curse words that like she would do it for the film, but then like outside of
filming, she wouldn't even say the name of the film because she didn't want to say the word ass.
So in like any interviews with her around the time, she just refers to it as the film.
And apparently at home she calls it kick butt, which is cute. She's like 13 year old kid in this
movie, but like on screen she's swearing up a storm. Um, but I think it was funny that her,
(46:53):
her mom suggested it. Um, so Matthew Vaughn who did the movie. So there's a whole lot of weird
I think Matthew, Matthew Vaughn who directed the movie was originally supposed to direct the first
Thor movie. Um, and then backed out of it, but he was working with Mark Miller who wrote kick ass,
(47:19):
um, for ideas on Thor. I think Mark Miller reached out to him with ideas for Thor and then
and then they, and then when Matthew Vaughn was going to make a different superhero movie,
he wanted Mark Miller's ideas and they had like, or no, I think they were, they just wanted to make
a movie together. So they had kind of pitched ideas. They're like, apparently one of their
(47:42):
ideas was to do like a sequel to the Bible. Um, I don't know how that would have gone, but then
they met each other at the premiere, the London premiere for Stardust, which Matthew Vaughn also
made. Um, and at the premiere for Stardust, Mark Miller pitched his idea for kick ass
(48:02):
to Matthew Vaughn and that's how they ended up making the movie. Um, he also, Matthew Vaughn did
the movie for free on, but put it in his contract that the only condition that he wouldn't be paid
in money would be that he gets to keep the mist mobile at the end of the movie. So he owns that
car. Um, he says he finds it too powerful to actually drive it. Uh, but that was, that was
(48:26):
his payment for writing, directing, producing the film was that he got to keep the car. Um, and he
also like had approached a whole load of studios and was rejected by all of them. Um, largely
because apparently a lot of them gave him an ultimatum and the ultimatum was either get rid
of hit girl or make her 19. And he was like, no, I'm not going to do that. And keeping the
(48:53):
13 year old in here. Um, so I just found some trivia. Apparently the two sequels are letting
me finish the trivia. I was sorry. Okay. Continue then. Why? What's the point? Just continue. So
he raised, because they got rejected by all the studios, he raised the budget at a dinner party
and made the movie independently. And then was a ended up selling the rights to universal for more
(49:20):
money than he originally asked for when he approached them first. Classic. Yeah. What was
your bit of trivia? Oh, there's two sequels coming to which to kick ass. Yeah. So there's only one so
far, right? Yeah. Why is they, why have they waited so long? I have no idea. I just found that like,
it's called school fights and it's more like pre-production. Weird. Okay. Is there only one
(49:46):
so far or is there actually more? I'm not sure. I haven't seen any sequel to it. There might've
been a second one, right? Second one what? Second sequel. To what? Kick ass. Yeah. There's literally
two more movies coming. No, no, I thought there might've been another one. I thought there might
have been a kick ass three in between, but not the other. So kick ass in 2010, kick ass two in 2013
(50:12):
and then 10 years later, more than 10 years later. Very weird. That's strange.
But then you look at like a lot of reboots at the moment are very, very popular.
Yeah, true. Like no one until, well, I say recently, but like recently in the grand
scheme of time with Furiosa coming from like Mad Max, Fury Road and there was something else
(50:39):
that just, oh, Romulus. Yeah. Cause it was sort of like aliens are back and then, oh, they died
again because it was like Prometheus was not Prometheus. What was the second one? Covenant.
Covenant was just such a weirdly done movie with the fact they had to watch a bunch of
things online to understand who the characters were before them like going to the movie.
(51:01):
I mean that's what MCU was done. Yeah. But like we went to see Deadpool and Wolverine and I had
to hear me like, Hey, you haven't watched Loki. So let me tell you about it. Oh, so that would be
my recommendation is you don't need to watch all the MCU stuff, but maybe watch Loki before
you watch Deadpool and Wolverine if you want to get all the ins and outs of it. And also Deadpool 1 and 2.
Yeah, true. So, sorry, trivia for Super. Oh yeah. I've already kind of given out most of it. I will
(51:33):
say it was shot over 24 days. So they did it in less than a month. And it is James Gunn's lowest
grossing film. Yeah. But I've already covered all the rest of the trivia I had on that. Cause we kind
of talked about it throughout the thing. Do you want to talk budget and box office? Cause they came
out the same year. So we can compare them. Do you know the budgets and box office? Sometimes you do.
(51:55):
What would you guess is the higher budget film? And so the look on your face means it's Super.
No, it's not. You tricked me. You did a trickery. Do you have any, any guess on what the budgets are
for the movie? I'm going to say 15 and 25. Dollars? Million. Million. Low on one and high on the other.
(52:24):
So the budget for Super was 2.5 million. Okay. And the budget for Kick Ass was 30 million. Okay. I
don't know what kind of dinner parties Matthew Vaughan is throwing that he could raise 30 million
dollars at a dinner party. But fair enough. Do you know, do you, what would you think is better at
(52:45):
box office? Kick Ass. Any idea by how much? Like I'm going to say double. So I'm going to say it
made 60 with the other one made like 10. I mean that's more, that's six times anyway. I mean like
double as in double the cost. Oh, double the cost. Uh, no, it made more than that actually. So Kick
(53:08):
Ass actually made 96 million dollars. That sounds good. So more than triple the cost. Super. Made
less? Less than what? Less than 96 million? Definitely. No, I was going to say less than its
budget. Less than its budget. Yes. Wow. Way less than its budget. 422,000. That doesn't seem right.
(53:29):
On a 2.5 million dollar budget. That's bananas. Um, so it's no wonder it's licitous. His closest
grossing film. Uh, he just didn't make any money with that one. That, that does feel like ridiculous,
but apparently that's correct. Uh, oh, there's another estimation here that says they made 590,000
(53:51):
but still like we're in the ballpark of 500,000, which is a fifth of the budget. Um,
so not great for super. I mean I did say that I didn't see it in cinema. Yeah. Um, maybe it didn't
even get a release where I was. I'm not sure to be honest. But uh, yeah. Pretty good. Didn't do
(54:14):
very well. Which I feel like it should have done better than that. I don't think it was, I don't
think it's like absolutely mind blowing, fantastic. But definitely at the time it was quite novel.
Yeah. Um, and it's just, yeah, a little bit odd. It didn't, oh, so it did make a bunch of DVD
(54:34):
Blue-ray sales. Yeah. Um, this is an estimate from August 2011. So about a year after it came out,
it had made 1.2 million in DVD Blue-ray sales, which is still less than its budget. Yeah.
Yeah. Um, yeah, it's a, I guess it was a, you know, a kind of a polarizing film.
(54:58):
It was very violent. It was an indie film. It was, you know, not, I mean, James Gunn is a huge name
now, but I don't think at the time he was. Uh, what had he made at that point actually? Cause
I don't think he'd made a lot. Um, oh, he had done, so he had, Super. So he hadn't done anything in a
(55:23):
few years actually. His, it was his second movie that he directed. The first movie he directed was
Slither in 2006. Have you seen Slither? No, I haven't. And he had done, he had written a few films,
which were Tromeo and Juliet, The Specials, Scooby-Doo and Dawn of the Dead and Scooby-Doo,
Two Monsters Unleashed. So he had written the Scooby-Doo movies, which were pretty good. Um,
(55:48):
and then his directorial debut was Slither and then he did Super. And then the next film that
he wrote and directed after Super is Guardians of the Galaxy. So, I mean, he did well for himself
in that regard that like he went, you know, he might not have made a lot of money on, on Super,
but then the next, and then from that he got into Guardians of the Galaxy. Um, and obviously he's
(56:14):
made quite a lot of money doing the, you know, the three Guardians movies. Um, made quite a name for
himself nowadays, but like at that point he was, he was nobody. Matthew Vaughn had only, the only
thing he had written and directed at that point was, I think he had directed Layer Cake, but then
he had, the only film that he had both written and directed before Kick Ass was Stardust, which we've
(56:39):
already covered on the podcast. I really liked Stardust. Um, but he's made a whole lot of things
since then as well. Uh, I can't remember what they were. I did look at a list earlier of what
Matthew Vaughn had done. Um, yeah, so he did, oh, X-Men First Class and then he did the Days of
(56:59):
Future Past and then he did the Kingsman movies. So he did Kingsman Secret Service, Golden Circle
and The King's Man. And he also directed and produced Argyle, which we've seen relatively recently
as well. Um, so I mean, they've both gone on to make pretty decent names for themselves, I think
in the meantime. Uh, I feel like Matthew Vaughn was a bigger name at the time than James Gunn, but like,
(57:24):
still hadn't done a lot. Um, but he did, yeah, he didn't, he wrote, he wrote and directed X-Men
First Class and then he wrote the story, but not the script for Days of Future Past. And he didn't
direct it, but he produced it. And then he wrote, directed and produced the Three Kingsman movies.
Those are also like super violent and also randomly have Mark Strong in them.
(57:48):
Yeah, true. Um, it doesn't, it doesn't surprise me that the guy who wrote Kick-Ass also did the
Kingsman movies. They're in the same kind of vein of like regular dudes. Ultra-violence.
Ending up doing some kind of ultra-violence thing. Um, yeah.
If you want to find us online to listen to more of our podcasts, because you've randomly stumbled
(58:11):
across this, go to our website. It takes two.co.nz and you can find everything there with our RSS
feed and, um, all links to wherever you can listen to a podcast, YouTube channel, um, and links to
our Discord, but those will be in the show notes. Um, I always say comments and get frowned at.
(58:32):
I don't think you've ever said comments. I don't. Oh, okay. I think you said in the description,
maybe the description. You're used to a like video. I mean on YouTube it's in the description.
Yeah, true. Um, so thank you for listening to our episode about Super and Kick-Ass.
Let us know your thoughts by reviewing this or joining our Discord or leaving a comment
(58:53):
wherever you watch this or listen to this. All right. Goodbye. Bye.
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