December 30, 2024 • 50 mins
Join us this week for a classic child-friendly Christmas episode as we compare Mickey's Christmas Carol (1983) and A Christmas Carol (2009).
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The Movies:
Mickey’s Christmas Carol (1983)
Directed by Burny Mattinson
Written by Burny Mattinson, Tony Marino, Ed Gombert, Don Griffith, Alan Young & Alan Dinehart
Based on the novel by Charles Dickens
iMDb Rating: 8.0
Directed by Robert Zemeckis
Written by Robert Zemeckis
Based on the novel by Charles Dickens
iMDB Rating: 6.8
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Content Warning:
Mentions of death, illness, poverty, and references to the impact of greed on society.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
["The Last Post-Credit Scene"]
(00:19):
Hi everyone, I'm Lisa.
And I'm Nik.
And you're listening to It Takes Two, the podcast where two people take two movies with the same plot or premise and watch and discuss them.
More Christmas. Christmas coming at you. Down the chimney, into your home.
No bars can stop it.
It's two movies based on Charles Dickens' The Christmas Carol.
(00:41):
Yay, we're back to A Christmas Carol, which is what we did for our first year of Christmas episodes.
So it is 1983's Mickey's Christmas Carol, starring Mickey Mouse.
And Scrooge McDuck.
And Scrooge McDuck. And no Huey, Dewey or Louie in this case.
I mean they are there briefly.
Yeah, very briefly. And the American animated 2009 Robert Zemeckis' Christmas Carol, starring Jim Carrey as half the cast and Gary Oldman as the other half.
(01:15):
Yeah, pretty much.
Yeah, this is interesting.
So Mickey's Christmas Carol is one that I grew up with. You hadn't seen it before, right?
Yeah, it's a lot shorter than I remember it being.
That's because you were a lot younger when you were a child.
Yeah, I didn't realise how short my attention span must have been as a small child.
But it's only 25 minutes long, which is not a feature film.
(01:42):
But we'll count it. We did The Grinch. We did How the Grinch Stole Christmas last year and that also was less than feature length.
And also the other one starred Jim Carrey.
That's true.
Yeah.
So two years in a row we're doing Jim Carrey Christmas movies.
Yeah.
Where he's the lead in- a grumpy lead who hates Christmas. Maybe we should have compared The Grinch and Christmas Carol.
(02:09):
No.
So two Jim Carrey movies where he's a grumpy protagonist who hates Christmas in a 2000s adaptation of a classic Christmas book.
Anyway, yeah, so we've got Jim Carrey this one as well.
I've seen both of these before. You hadn't seen either of them, right?
(02:32):
No.
I've seen Mickey Christmas Carol a lot. I saw it a lot of times as a kid.
I think we used to watch It and Muppet Christmas Carol and then I guess gradually it got phased out because the Muppet one was the favorite.
Because I don't remember when the last time I saw Mickey's Christmas Carol was, but I'm sure it was when I was like six or seven.
My brain when we used to watch It.
(02:53):
No, not It.
My brain was like the Stephen King horror movie series.
Yeah, we used to watch that every year.
No, we used to watch two different adaptations of a Christmas Carol.
But Muppet Christmas Carol is one that we continue to watch and my family still watch together now.
Whereas I literally don't remember last time I watched Mickey's Christmas Carol, but I suspect it was early enough that my younger brother either never watched it or wouldn't remember watching it.
(03:24):
Fair enough.
So it's interesting to revisit it after all these years and it's very brief and they cut out so much of it.
Whereas the 2009 one is actually possibly even more accurate than the Muppet Christmas Carol, which people normally say is the most accurate, most book accurate version.
But I think they're stuffed in, like I think they were trying to be really faithful to the book in the Bob Zemeckis one.
(03:53):
So for people who haven't seen Robert Zemeckis' A Christmas Carol, you might not have heard much about it, but you've probably heard about another film he did before called The Polar Express and how much that is just uncanny valley to the extreme.
And I think this was following in its footsteps.
He certainly had not worked out all the kinks of the creepy mocap animation that he was doing, but I think it's decent.
(04:21):
It's interesting watching it because the body movements, everything, even the head.
So the mocap for it has done really well.
Yes, the facial expressions are not.
The facial expressions are creepy. The way the hands interact with faces is weird.
I think my big takeaway from it is after obviously he did Polar Express before this and having done Polar Express and all the complaints people had about it, I can 100 percent understand why he cast Jim Carrey in the lead role.
(04:57):
Jim Carrey is an incredibly physical actor.
Even his facial expressions are so overdramatic that they were captured pretty well on this, whereas Gary Oldman's facial expressions, you're like, what is happening with this character's face right now?
Colin Firth, Gary Oldman's were kind of mediocre. Colin Firth is horrifying in this movie because he's so subtle in his acting that it just does not happen in the mocap. So he's got permanent fixed robot face while he's supposed to be the jolly character.
(05:34):
And it's very unsettling. It's like the most unsettling I've ever seen Colin Firth be.
Not that he tries to be unsettling very much, but I don't think he was trying in this either.
It's just his style of acting did not work with that kind of mocap.
Whereas Jim Carrey, I get it. You know what I mean?
I hear that they're putting Jim Carrey in a movie like this and I'm like, I understand without even looking at it why you've chosen Jim Carrey for your mocap.
(06:03):
I don't think the message from Charles Dickens novel really carries over.
To which one? Either?
No, I'm saying to now.
Oh, okay. Yeah, it does. All of the horrible CEOs don't get visited by ghosts.
(06:31):
None of them would care.
I don't know. I was going to say something very topical and then I remember this is a child friendly episode.
Some stuff happened recently.
Some stuff happened recently.
And a very well-known billionaire then started using his child in a way that would be deemed irresponsible.
(06:52):
Other well-known billionaires have forgiven a lot of debt because they have been visited by some ghosts.
Each of one ghost.
And made to reconsider what they're doing.
Including the new CEO.
I think the message is coming through.
(07:13):
I think Dickens was onto something.
I think we need to scare rich people.
Rich people who don't want to share. Specifically rich people who don't want to share any of their money.
Need to have some frights put into them.
Because it works. At least three frights.
Just put in them.
I'm worried now because I forgot that we were doing a child friendly episode and I'm worried that I said something bad already.
(07:38):
But I don't think I did.
I think we're good.
Okay.
No, it's very interesting because obviously they're very different styles.
The classic hand animated versus the beginning of not photorealistic because I still don't think we're quite there.
(08:00):
I think that's what he was going for then.
Yeah.
It does have the uncanny valley issue with the faces and the eyes.
The lighting is really good.
I think the essence of the story is very much like honestly out of all the other than the Bill Murray movie.
(08:22):
Yeah, which is not child friendly.
I think I did watch that as a child.
Scrooge.
I think other than the Bill Murray movie, I think and this is something that is bringing a lot of acid reflux into my throat as I say it.
I think the Muppets one is the best.
Oh, it is.
Not because I don't like Muppets.
(08:43):
It's just silly in a fun way.
But it's also very accurate.
Yeah, very accurate.
I think maybe we'll revisit this in a few years and compare and rewatch some adaptations and compare Muppets versus Carl specifically to the Jim Carrey one.
(09:05):
I think they both are incredibly accurate to the book.
I think the Bob the Maggots one went out of its way to include some stuff that doesn't get included in any other adaptations.
But I think he kind of really leaned, I was going to say reimagined it, but I don't think he reimagined it.
I think he really leaned into the horror of it.
(09:27):
So there's a lot of moments and I think that's the big difference between it and the Muppets versus Carl.
But also the Mickey one that we just watched is that those are kind of lighthearted and even where they do lean into the sadness of it, they don't make it horror.
Even the Close to Christmas Future, he's a bit creepy in both of those.
(09:51):
In the Scrooge and the Muppet versus Carl that we just watched.
We previously did Scrooge and the Muppet versus Carl and I don't think either of them did this, but both the ones we watched this year did,
which is the Ghost of Christmas Future pushing him into the really deep grave with the fiery coffin at the bottom of it.
(10:16):
That's frightening and they did do that in both of these.
Pete as Ghost of Christmas Future pushes Scrooge and he's like ducked into it and that's scary.
But I felt like the Robert Zemeckis one really leans into the frightening parts of it, but without making it not suitable for children.
It's not a horror movie, it's still suitable for kids, but I don't know what the rating on it is,
(10:41):
but I would be cautious about showing it to younger kids because it's definitely, it gets pretty intense with the scary parts.
It gets very scary.
I think the best, because it's Ghost of Christmas Future and I think the Jim Carrey version did a really good job
(11:02):
because it is basically just a shadow the entire time and it is very unnerving and unworldly
where you've got this candle and then a giant and then just a shadow.
Yeah and more importantly, it's his shadow. It's not just a shadow that shows up.
(11:25):
Because they do a little bit of that shadow work in Mickey's Christmas Girl.
Marley shows up as the shadow and he's just a shadow on the wall separate to Scrooge.
It's not as intimidating because it is played by Goofy.
So the fact that he falls down.
I did think, I made a note at one point that I was like, Goofy as Marley is a choice.
(11:47):
He's notoriously the slightly dimwitted, good guy, nice, friendly guy,
and then they cast him as Scrooge's partner in crime who'd been stealing from the poor or whatever.
So he's an interesting character.
(12:08):
Scrooge or Marley?
Well both of them together sort of in that relationship.
This is the thing that why the Muppet Christmas Carol version is by far the most rounded
and goes into the most detail which is interesting.
The Jim Carrey one does touch on it a little bit but not in depth as much.
He was a loner at school.
(12:32):
He met a really fantastic boss who basically bankrupted himself looking after his staff.
He fell in love and I think the only thing missing out of the Muppet version is the song that's been cut out.
But if you put the song back in where it's supposed to go, Chef's Kiss, brilliant movie.
(12:56):
You see the sort of like, the fact that like, this is the thing that like gets you when you watch this different variations
of the same story as many times as we've had at this point.
You never see any moments with his family, any sort of positivity in his life except for like one tiny error of his life.
(13:24):
What do we do in the Bob Zemeckis one?
Because his sister comes to visit him at school.
His sister comes to visit him and she says like, you can come home, father is being much nicer than normal.
So you get to, just in like a moment, you get to learn A, he has a little sister.
Which I mean, it makes sense because he's got a nephew and all these adaptations
(13:46):
and the mother of the nephew is never mentioned, his sibling is never mentioned.
You're like, who is it? His sister or his brother?
So he's got a sister and she appears in the Bob Zemeckis version
and she in like two lines of dialogue or something reveals that he has an abusive father.
So he lives in a boarding home.
Yeah, but we know he's in a boarding home and like, you know, we're not talking about it this time,
(14:10):
but you keep referencing it anyways, but in The Muppet Girls of the Girl,
it's made very clear that Ebenezer Scrooge is the only kid who doesn't go home for the holidays.
That he stays in this boarding school throughout the holidays when everyone else has gone home to their families.
So he doesn't spend the time with his family.
And then in this Robert Zemeckis one, you learn that, you know, something is going on at home
(14:34):
that his father is cruel to him and either doesn't let him come home
or it's so bad that he doesn't want to leave the boarding school or he's the loner and no one likes him anyway.
You know what I mean?
Because that was what I was kind of getting at.
It's not you don't see the first time you ever see any positivity in his life is when he's an adult.
(14:55):
Yeah, when he's an apprentice.
Yeah, when he's an apprentice and he's working for this person who bankrupts himself.
He falls in love with a young woman and then it's his obsession with money and this because they're,
I wouldn't say loan sharks. They're like what they're basically they're they're in the business.
(15:20):
Yeah, yeah, because they're mortgage brokers, but they're not exclusively right.
They do have more. They do have mortgages as well as other loans.
Yeah, so their loan, loan, loan brokers.
And when his best friend slash business partner passes away, he just becomes more disheveled and what's it evil,
(15:47):
but just like borderline unredeemable.
The way he treats his staff is like, oh, you know, I gave you a promotion last, you know, not a promotion,
a pay rise last year of like 50 cents.
Yeah, I mean, that's a lot back in that day, but still.
Not based on the amount of money he's earning.
It's not like he's doing in the accounting.
(16:10):
Yeah, it's interesting because he also like in both these adaptations.
I guess I have read the book, but it's been a while.
He only has one staff member.
Right. There's no one else.
It's just him and him and Cratchit.
And like, and I guess that's also a, you know, money saving thing.
(16:32):
But I think both of these kind of touch on him being afraid of spending money and being afraid of not having money.
I think especially in the Robert Zemeckis one, like the conversation he has with the fiance that ends the relationship,
you know, because in both cases, it's that he cares more about the money than her.
(16:55):
And in weirdly, the Disney one is worse for this.
Well, they're both both movies to Disney, but the Scrooge McDuck one is worse because he literally like forecloses her mortgage and is like, get out of here.
You're poor.
Whereas in the Bob Zemeckis one, he kind of it's because she's saying, you know, you've changed and you're not the man that I fell in love with anymore.
(17:18):
And it's a lovely performance by Robin Wright.
But it's that they were poor together.
And she's saying to him, like, I'm still poor.
And like, if you met me now, you wouldn't be interested because you care so much about the money.
But it's that he has spent like, I think it's it's kind of implied that he started getting into this business to get money for them together, to live their lives together.
(17:47):
But his fear of not having money and his fear of going back to being poor is so all encompassing that he forgets to live the life that he was saving for, which is really sad.
And it does. I mean, that happens. And it's like money is money is tough.
And it's not. Yeah, that's you know, you'll you'll learn this, children.
(18:12):
No, it's but it is, you know, it is hard when when you have to work hard to survive and then you and then you get enough money to survive on.
It's very hard to turn that switch off and to say, I have money.
I can spend it on this thing. I have money.
(18:34):
I can spend it building this life that I wanted to build. And instead, like he doesn't even have like a very stately home or whatever.
You know, I mean, he does.
He has like a housekeeper in the in the Bob's Nexus version.
So he so he has enough money to pay a staff at his house as well.
(18:55):
But it's very much that like he doesn't buy extravagances with this money.
It's it's money that's holding it like a dragon.
Yeah, because he's he's so obsessed with getting money and keeping money that he's not actually using it to live.
And he said he does say that at the end, like Jim Carrey Jim Carrey's and Scrooge says that at the end of the movie, he says you can't take it with you.
(19:22):
You know, like because he's just had this flash of his own mortality and knows that he's going to die.
And people are, you know, not going to care about it because of what a horrible person he's been.
And also because he just hasn't been building connections with people.
He hasn't been socializing. He had one friend and that he had he had a partner and he isolated himself from her.
And then he had one friend and that friend died.
(19:45):
And this is a very lonely man who isn't letting himself feel that loneliness because he's just in this anxiety.
It shows very, very heavily with obviously Bob Cratchit, but also with his nephew,
because his nephew is literally coming with an olive branch and being like, hey, you know, come, you know, you don't have to do anything.
Yeah. Come over to my house, meet my fiance.
(20:08):
But he's like, I don't why would I keep your poor like what are you doing with your life?
You got to hoard all the wealth like a dragon. Yeah.
And everyone will be afraid of you rather than like in awe of you.
You don't actually help with your money. You just hold it all.
And it's not until the second ghost comes along, the ghost of Christmas present.
(20:32):
Yeah. Where he's taken and showing Bob Cratchit's family.
Yeah. And the struggles they're dealing with.
And it's very interesting because they look this up of what's wrong with Tiny Tim.
Yeah. And this is where the Muppets one is is very accurate.
Yeah. So no one else mentions what's actually wrong with them.
Because it's what do you remember what it is?
(20:53):
The ancient in the Muppets version.
It's in the Muppets version because the thing is that in the book, they don't say what it is.
I mean, no version they say what it is. But in the Muppets version, I believe they give him signs of tuberculosis.
Right. Is that right? I don't remember.
I think it's I can't remember. I feel like tuberculosis made sense.
(21:14):
I'm glad you've been watching too much. John Green. Yeah.
Everything is tuberculosis.
So what I did some research on is there's two possible but the most likely is Ricketts.
Right. OK. Maybe that's what they did.
They definitely I think when they made the Muppets version, they really researched into what the illnesses of the time were.
(21:36):
Yeah. And made just gave him symptoms of what was the most likely illness of the time.
And that was Ricketts. Yeah.
There's something else that was related to kidney function. Right.
Yes. There's two two possibilities, both of which would have been around and heavily affecting children of that era.
(21:58):
Yeah. When the book was written. So it's either possibility.
No one's really like. Yeah. Nailed it.
And I think it's important to note that it's whatever is wrong with him is something that can be improved.
Yes. Because in the version where they in the Ghosts of Christmas Future version of events where Scrooge continues the way he is and Cratchit keeps living, you know, poorly on a penny.
(22:31):
Tiny Tim does pass away. Yeah.
So it's probably something to do with nutrition. And he warms like being in cold damp spaces.
You know, something that that's that's really impacted by that, because then in obviously the version where Scrooge actually helps and gives them money and gives them, you know, things for their home that can that can help them.
(22:53):
Suddenly Tiny Tim gets to actually live. Yeah.
You know, and that's maybe that's why my brain is going to tuberculosis, because that's how the world is at the moment.
That tuberculosis.
I know it's a it's a hard word for the children.
You might have if you've heard of it at all, you might have heard it as TB people.
(23:18):
I'm short of just TB. It's an it's a sickness that used to be really common everywhere. And lots of people died of it a long time ago. And now we have cures and treatments and it's really easy to treat.
And it's not even very expensive to treat.
But there's parts of the world that are really poor.
(23:41):
And they don't have the treatment.
So there's there's some really wonderful people working to like actually get that treatment to the people who need it in those parts of the world.
You know, so it's getting better. But definitely, you know, that's reminiscent of the Tiny Tim thing for me that like if he had the treatments, he can get better.
(24:08):
But because of a situation and because of the lack of wealth, he doesn't have that opportunity in the original version.
And that's sad.
But he can be saved and so can all of the, you know, people who currently have tuberculosis.
Anyway, there's no call to action there.
Ask your parents about it.
(24:30):
Ask your parents about tuberculosis today.
There's an organization called Partners in Health.
No, if you want to help a kid this Christmas, I am not.
What is happening?
Hi, everyone. I'm Joan Green.
Everything is tuberculosis.
(24:52):
Anyway, the title of his new book, genuinely is the title of his new book.
And I will buy it because I want to read the thing he's written about a guy he actually knows who had tuberculosis.
And got treatment because of people going over and helping and is now, you know, someone who, like Tiny Tim, could have died quite young and has actually survived adulthood and said.
(25:13):
Anyway, we're not here to talk about tuberculosis today.
But yeah, I feel like they don't show a lot of the Tiny Tim stuff in the Scrooge Wicked Up version.
In Mickey's Christmas Carol, it's so brief.
(25:35):
But what they do in Mickey's Christmas Carol, which I appreciate because they don't say it in the other one and I don't think they say it anywhere else, is they explain why they go to those places.
The Ghost of Christmas Present.
Because I feel like in the other versions of the scene and definitely in the Robert Zemeckis one, they just go.
They're just like, let's go here.
(25:57):
And he's like, why are we here?
Whereas in Mickey's Christmas Carol, I can't remember the exact line, but the Ghost of Christmas Present says something about the people who care.
Oh, because Scrooge is saying, why should I show kindness?
No one knows ever shown me kindness.
(26:18):
And he's like, well, you haven't given them the opportunity to.
And he's like, who would want to?
And he's like, where he says something like, who has kindness in their heart for me?
And Scrooge, and that's actually quite a telling line that Scrooge doesn't feel like anyone cares about him.
And he uses that as an excuse to not care about anyone else.
But he obviously is feeling hurt.
(26:42):
And that's probably from, you know, I think, honestly, I think Ebenezer Scrooge has anxiety.
I'm diagnosing him.
I think Ebenezer Scrooge has anxiety and he like, he doesn't like himself.
And as a result, he like isolates himself from people.
And then when he does that, he's like, they don't like me.
That's why I've been isolated.
(27:04):
So, but that's what the Ghost of Christmas Present is showing him, is that he's showing him people who do have kindness in their heart for Scrooge, for people who do have a good thing to say about Scrooge.
And then weirdly, they don't actually do it in that version because, you know, Mickey Mouse as Bob Cratchit doesn't say it and then they don't go to see Fred.
(27:25):
But in the Bob Zemeckis version, you know, Mickey Mouse, oh no, not Mickey Mouse.
Bob Cratchit, there's no Mickey Mouse in the Bob Zemeckis version.
When they go to see Gary Oldman's Bob Cratchit and Gary Oldman as Tiny Tim, which is still weird to me.
You know, he does a toast to the founder of the feast, to Mr. Scrooge.
(27:48):
He's saying we can't, like, I know we're living on a small amount and he's got so many kids in this version.
There's so many of Cratchit children.
But he's saying that, you know, we can only afford this small goose between our family.
We can't afford a big turkey.
We probably never will afford a turkey, maybe someday in the future.
But we have food.
(28:10):
We have a house and we have food and the reason we have these things is because I have an employer, Mr. Scrooge,
and he has paid for these by giving me wages.
And he is genuinely grateful and he genuinely feels love in his heart for Scrooge.
And his wife is having none of it, but he still convinces her to let's do a toast to Mr. Scrooge.
(28:31):
And then you have Fred's dinner where they're playing the, you know, the guess who kind of game.
They're talking about an unwanted creature and it's, oh, it's your uncle Scrooge.
And Scrooge is again, he recoils in on himself.
And like the whole way through it, you can tell that he knows.
Because I think, you know, looking back at the Muppet version, because I can't compare this to Mickey's,
(28:54):
because they don't even go see Fred.
In the Muppet version, he's like, oh, he's trying to guess.
He's like, oh, a rat, a cat, you know.
Whereas in this one, you can tell instantly from Jim Carrey's body language that his version of Scrooge
knows that what they're talking about is him.
Or he assumes it, because that's how he feels about himself.
And he's like recoiling in and trying to get away and kind of look away.
(29:17):
And then they say it. And then Fred is like, but as much as we joke, you know, I do wish my uncle well.
And I hope that he's having, you know, even though he wouldn't want me to wish him a Merry Christmas,
I hope he has one. And, you know, and he's really genuine about it.
Which is why Scrooge at the end of the movie comes to the dinner.
That's what he chooses to do, is to go actually take up Fred's, and he does this in both of these versions,
(29:43):
to take up Fred's offer and be like, actually, I will come to your dinner.
And in the Scrooge McDuck version, in Mickey's Christmas Carol, he just sees Fred on the street
and is like, I'm going to come to dinner. And Fred is like, oh my God, great, like, come along.
Whereas in, you know, the Bob's and Mac's Christmas Carol, he just shows up.
And he shows up at that moment where they're playing the game and they're about to guess that it's him.
(30:06):
And then, you know, and you can see him being anxious when they all kind of look at him silently
when he says he's there and he hopes that he'll let them join his dinner.
But then they all like, they're overjoyed that he's actually come and they all rush over to hug him and stuff.
And it's very much that the Ghost of Christmas present was showing him the people who care about him.
(30:28):
And he's saying, like, look at this and listen to what they have to say.
You're not in the room and they only, you know, they are saying positive things about you.
And yes, there is mention of you being a miser because that's who you are.
But they still, despite that, they still care about you and they still want you around.
Yeah, I can't remember how we got onto that.
(30:53):
But that is what he's doing is like he's actually saying, let's go see the people who care about you.
And that's how he ends up seeing them and their families as well.
And I'm realizing that, like, there is space for him with these people and with their families
and that they have all this love and that even, you know, because he doesn't believe in doing stuff for the sake of love.
(31:16):
Because he's been burned before in his own mind when he was the one who actually did it.
So for him to see people who he sees as being poor and not having enough money to look after themselves, whatever,
he sees them with their family, with their friends, with their wives, having a joyous time on less money than he has.
(31:41):
He kind of goes, oh, this is what I've been missing.
Yeah, that's the realization.
The problem is, is that these days, even if you don't give out your money because you have money,
means that you're known, everyone's Googleable.
(32:05):
And I think that's where the lesson of the story has not really moved into this kind of era of our time,
which is sad because it really shows how people who have been affected by greed are expressing their feelings now,
(32:26):
which is not a constructive manner.
I do not agree with the actions taken, but at the same time, it's the only way people are going to change
is if they get visited by ghosts and show in the era of their ways in a time frame where they can actually do something about it.
And, you know, this story, this novel that's been adapted so many times by so different things in so many different ways,
(32:56):
you know, the screen versions, there's TV movies, there's episodes of television shows, there's literally everything under the sun.
It's sort of like that.
We've really Christmas for me and the reason why I've never been such a huge Christmas person, I just feel like it's contaminated.
(33:18):
Christmas to me is family, but the problem is it's not about family, it's about consumerism and consumption and not the illness.
Unless you're tiny team.
Yeah, unless you're tiny team.
Consumption was just no name for tuberculosis.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because it eats you from the inside.
(33:42):
Scary.
Yeah, and I think that's the biggest issue and I think that's really it's not so much in in Christmas Carol because, like you said in the beginning,
he's not spending it on himself.
Yeah.
You know, he's not there with a gold plated chariot with thoroughbred Arabian horses that he's imported.
(34:07):
Yeah.
You know, he must be also cold.
Yeah, you know, he is he's skimping on buying coal.
Yeah, like he's seen that as an unnecessary expense to buy coal.
Yeah, to warm your warm your office enough that your ink defrosts the person who's doing all the work can actually do their job.
(34:28):
Yeah.
It's a very bizarre, bizarre way. And I think, you know, everything you've touched on earlier kind of really like puts him in this little box.
And I just yeah, it really shows because that's that's the difference between obviously this sort of when the story was written versus well, you know, it's hard to say.
(34:52):
I know people are out there doing good, but it does definitely feel like wealth is now used as a status symbol to show excess than it is to help.
Yeah.
When people do things and purchase things for the purposes of changing them for the worse to make themselves look better than actually helping with it.
(35:21):
It really shows kind of like the era we're in, the attitude of people and the fact that people are obsessed and are fans of these people and the things they do.
It's very bizarre because it is just it makes me recoil and honestly lose a little bit of hope. And then honestly, as a person who grew up in the era that I did and where we are as millennials, it's not great, guys.
(35:57):
I think, you know, being trauma to waste is just like a normal everyday thing for us, for our generation.
We've lived through it all, you know, I'm not saying that it's as bad as the generation who would have been children during the wars or been in because, you know, this is not just a Western.
(36:18):
Obviously, I have a Western point of view because I am from the West, but like there are other countries out there that are what?
New Zealand is not West. I mean, I understand what you mean, the concept of the Western world.
Yeah, English speaking countries. Sorry, derailed my train. There are people out there now suffering continuously. And it is the influence on the West on these places by giving these people the ability to do stuff or standing in the way of it ending.
(36:57):
That is, you know, there are things ongoing, you know, the, you know, they're talking about because this is obviously set prior to World War One, you know, even in the trenches of no man's land.
Ask your parents before looking this up when kids looking this one up kids.
(37:19):
You know, even they stop for Christmas. But, you know, you look at what's happening in the Middle East, you look what's happening in Africa, you know, there, there is no Christmas there.
You know, there's this one fight after the other. And you sort of it puts the whole thing in perspective of just like, there are people out there who have billions of dollars who could help cure things like tuberculosis.
(37:52):
Yeah, stop malaria, things like that. And then at the same time, no, they just buy companies that don't need to be bought to make themselves look better. They invest in social media, they buy things so they can't be used against them.
And some sort of the only the only thing I can come off with is the joke about becoming a dragon and hoarding all the wealth and living in a mountain. Because it does feel like that for the people on the outside and we're, we're blessed.
(38:25):
In reality, me and you, for an example, we're blessed. We earn more than we need. We live outside of our means. Well, we don't live outside of our means we live within our means but our means are large enough to sustain our lifestyle in a way where we can do things that I could ever do as a child.
(38:47):
Yeah, you know, my parents have known a home. Here we are. Yeah, you know, yeah, we're renting it off the bank, but still like it is on paper hours. Yeah. I mean, I even I grew up in a home that my parents did own. Yeah, but they only finished paying off mortgages, like last year.
Yeah, you know. And also I didn't what I didn't realize that I was having a conversation with my mother recently is that like our TV is a kid was rented. Yeah. You know, and stuff that I took for granted as a child I didn't realize was like that we you know I had no one, you know, understanding of debt and loans despite watching a lot of them up at Christmas Carol.
(39:29):
I didn't, you know, it never struck me that that's what, you know, my life was built on. And the fact that we own the stuff in our apartment. Yeah. Like none of that is rented. Yeah, other than our mortgage we have we have no debt. We don't have any debt. Yeah. And that is such a privileged place to be in. Yeah.
(39:52):
Now we're not wealthy. No, I wouldn't consider us wealthy. But, but that's based on the fact that we can see because of social media because of television because of the media in general, we are showing examples of other people. It's also because we know we have to work to continue to let you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think if we were wealthy, we would be spending some of that on charity, because I think that's the kind of people that we are. I mean, I do like once a year I donate to charity, you know, it's not regular.
(40:26):
And it's also time is far more important. That's the other big issue with that is you could be, you know, if you're earning so much money is because you're doing something and you're working hard. Yeah. Or you own something that is always because of the way the economy is now always on the precipice of collapsing anyway.
(40:48):
Yeah. We're also, you know, we've come from positions where we have had to, where we haven't been able to live the way that we're living now.
Yeah, the point that like, you know, we put put aside money to save to do something. And then we both feel anxious when we actually have to spend that money to do it. So, you know, are we still haven't replaced our driver. But, you know, we're we're going on a holiday next year.
(41:18):
And we've literally saved up for, you know, two and a half years or whatever to go on this holiday. But we still both felt anxious trying to spend the money to book it. And if we were wealthy, we wouldn't have that. Yeah, that wouldn't be a part of our consciousness.
And it's definitely where you can winding back and let us bear with us folks but winding back to where the movie's point is, it's very much like how Scrooge's mentality is.
(41:44):
Yeah. He came from a place where he didn't have money and he's worked and he's afraid to spend it.
Yeah. And it is very, very telling. Very telling. Obviously, we, from what I experienced with your family, you have limited experience with mine because mine's a little bit rougher than yours.
(42:10):
Christmas is about family. Yeah. And it's and it's that's it's not about, oh, you didn't get me the brand new whatever BMW, you know, or Gucci bag or I don't even know.
I mean, I will say that I did hear a lot as a child that Santa doesn't bring monkeys because I really wanted a pet monkey. I did. I mean, there was a part of me that thought that Santa could just solve all my problems as a child.
(42:41):
Yeah. And my parents had to be like, listen, just be realistic with him, you know, he's a.
I do like that. He can only bring you a limited amount of things.
Yeah. I do like the whole dress story.
Well, that's not to got me a dress and I was like, I didn't know through this.
Yeah. It was like, and how much work your parents had gone through to get it.
(43:02):
We used to make, I mean, I think it's, you know, how my parents grew up. But we used to, when we made lists for Santa, it would be like, you know, we had an amount of things that we might ask for.
And then we just put and a small surprise and a small surprise Santa.
And I guess I thought that dress was and then.
(43:25):
Yeah, I wore it eventually.
It just was like, it's not what I expected.
It was a travel two towns over to find it.
Santa.
I don't know where Santa got that dress.
Anyway, Merry Christmas to all and to all the good night.
Is that it? You're just going to end there.
(43:47):
It's summer here.
Yeah. You want to do trivia?
Yeah, you get into it.
I'm sweating up a storm here.
I haven't gotten a lot, but I'll do the Mickey's Christmas Carol first.
So originally the guy that they got to play Screech McDoug, Alan Young, he wasn't considered for it.
So it's the Mickey's Christmas Carol was actually based on a record that Disney put out about a Christmas Carol and this guy had narrated it, but they didn't want to ask him to play Screech because they thought that he wouldn't agree to do a voice for an animated film.
(44:20):
They thought it was beneath him.
And then he found out about it because one of his friends is preparing to audition for Screech McDoug and he contacted him and be like, hey, I want to audition.
And they were like, oh.
And he was like, listen, I worked in television for five years with a talking horse. At this point in my career, nothing is beneath me.
And he ended up getting the role of Screech McDoug and then voicing Screech McDoug for the rest of his life.
(44:45):
This is the last film that Clarence Nash did the voice of Donald Duck for.
He was the original Donald Duck and he sadly passed away shortly after this film came out.
And it was the first film that Wayne Allwine did the voice of Mickey Mouse.
It was the first film with a new Mickey Mouse, which is interesting because the Muppet Christmas Carol is the first time Kermit was voiced by someone other than Jim Henson.
(45:07):
Right.
So that's interesting.
In the book, Screech's nephew, Fred, is married.
But this is the only I think the only version of a Christmas Carol where he's not married, which presumably was done because they cast Daisy Duck as Screech's love interest when she's normally Donald's wife.
And also, I just thought this was a nice fact.
(45:30):
The director, Bernie Madison, had started working at Disney in 1953 in the mail department.
So he started off working in the mail department and then, you know, within 30 years he was directing films.
That's cute.
For the Robert Zemeckis one,
(45:52):
apparently Robert Zemeckis has always wanted to make an adaptation of a Christmas Carol, A, because he doesn't think that any other adaptations have really gotten to what he believes is the heart of
Charles Dickens's interpretation of it. He thinks it was very visual novel and that Charles Dickens almost made it like it was to be a movie, despite not knowing that movies existed.
(46:17):
He didn't specify what it was that he thought, but based on watching it, I think he wanted to lean into the horror of it.
So Bob Cratchit in this film is very short, which apparently is how he was described in the book.
So it's interesting that he's not in a lot of other adaptations. I would argue that he is when he's played by Garmett LaFrog.
(46:39):
And this one is almost completely true. It's the novel, so the book spends a lot more time in the present, especially at the houses of Bob Cratchit and his nephew Fred.
But it also shows strife around the globe and caves on ships that is relieved by Christmas joy.
And then the future scene. Yeah, so the future scene with the horse coming alive and chasing crows is not in the book.
(47:06):
That's about the only thing they had left. And also the ghost of Christmas yet to come basically doesn't move except pointing his finger, which is more accurate in the mobile one than this one, I think.
And then the rest of my trivia is all based around the budget and box office of this movie.
(47:27):
So I'm going to just read rather than tell you the budget and the box office straight off the bat, I'm going to read these three bits of trivia.
So one, the film opened at number one in 3683 theaters and it grossed thirty point one million dollars in its opening weekend with an average of eight thousand dollars per theater.
(47:50):
In the United Kingdom, it topped the box office on two different occasions, first when it first opened and then five weeks later it leapfrogged box office chart toppers at 2012.
Sorry, sorry, but box office chart toppers 2012, the movie at the Twilight Saga New Moon, Paranormal Activity and also another family Christmas movie called Nativity.
(48:17):
So you would think based on all those that it did really well.
But because of how high the production of marketing costs were, it lost the studio a hundred million dollars.
And the president of the Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures Group at the time, Mark Cerati, and the head of worldwide marketing had to resign as a result of this movie.
(48:40):
Yeah, so the budget was two hundred million dollars and the box office was three hundred and twenty five million.
So they like they did incredibly well in theaters, but they had cost so much money to begin with that literally it cost the studio a bunch of money and the guy had to resign.
(49:02):
Isn't that nuts? Yeah, it is. That's just crazy.
Yeah, I guess I guess that's all there is to talk about.
I would recommend children listening to this if you're still listening, get the book, get your parents to read A Christmas Carol, the book to you.
Yeah, that's a very good little book. You can get some that have got nice pictures in it.
(49:24):
I read it myself.
I think when I was 10, maybe so that might be the reading level of it. But then again, I was just really into Charles Dickens at the time. I also read Great Expectations when I was like 11.
So I don't know if that's every child's interest.
Yeah, see, I was I was a different child. I really liked Kidnapped and The Hobbit.
(49:50):
Yeah, I really like The Hobbit. I got The Hobbit. I think I got The Hobbit for Christmas when I was 10.
And also there is a book called Letters from Father Christmas that is by JR Otokia.
That is a nice read, but maybe for older kids for reasons.
And see. Thank you for joining us.
(50:13):
If this is your first time, please go back through our catalog and enjoy either just the Christmas episodes or some other things.
You may see a movie pop up there or there here or there that appeals to you.
And if you're a long time listener, thank you for joining us for these lovely Christmas episodes and we will catch you in the new year.
(50:36):
Yeah, I think this is coming out after Christmas.
So I hope you had a good Christmas and have a good new year.
Bye.
["The Last Post-Credit Scene"]
(00:19):
Hi everyone, I'm Lisa.
And I'm Nik.
And you're listening to It Takes Two, the podcast where two people take two movies with the same plot or premise and watch and discuss them.
More Christmas. Christmas coming at you. Down the chimney, into your home.
No bars can stop it.
It's two movies based on Charles Dickens' The Christmas Carol.
(00:41):
Yay, we're back to A Christmas Carol, which is what we did for our first year of Christmas episodes.
So it is 1983's Mickey's Christmas Carol, starring Mickey Mouse.
And Scrooge McDuck.
And Scrooge McDuck. And no Huey, Dewey or Louie in this case.
I mean they are there briefly.
Yeah, very briefly. And the American animated 2009 Robert Zemeckis' Christmas Carol, starring Jim Carrey as half the cast and Gary Oldman as the other half.
(01:15):
Yeah, pretty much.
Yeah, this is interesting.
So Mickey's Christmas Carol is one that I grew up with. You hadn't seen it before, right?
Yeah, it's a lot shorter than I remember it being.
That's because you were a lot younger when you were a child.
Yeah, I didn't realise how short my attention span must have been as a small child.
But it's only 25 minutes long, which is not a feature film.
(01:42):
But we'll count it. We did The Grinch. We did How the Grinch Stole Christmas last year and that also was less than feature length.
And also the other one starred Jim Carrey.
That's true.
Yeah.
So two years in a row we're doing Jim Carrey Christmas movies.
Yeah.
Where he's the lead in- a grumpy lead who hates Christmas. Maybe we should have compared The Grinch and Christmas Carol.
(02:09):
No.
So two Jim Carrey movies where he's a grumpy protagonist who hates Christmas in a 2000s adaptation of a classic Christmas book.
Anyway, yeah, so we've got Jim Carrey this one as well.
I've seen both of these before. You hadn't seen either of them, right?
(02:32):
No.
I've seen Mickey Christmas Carol a lot. I saw it a lot of times as a kid.
I think we used to watch It and Muppet Christmas Carol and then I guess gradually it got phased out because the Muppet one was the favorite.
Because I don't remember when the last time I saw Mickey's Christmas Carol was, but I'm sure it was when I was like six or seven.
My brain when we used to watch It.
(02:53):
No, not It.
My brain was like the Stephen King horror movie series.
Yeah, we used to watch that every year.
No, we used to watch two different adaptations of a Christmas Carol.
But Muppet Christmas Carol is one that we continue to watch and my family still watch together now.
Whereas I literally don't remember last time I watched Mickey's Christmas Carol, but I suspect it was early enough that my younger brother either never watched it or wouldn't remember watching it.
(03:24):
Fair enough.
So it's interesting to revisit it after all these years and it's very brief and they cut out so much of it.
Whereas the 2009 one is actually possibly even more accurate than the Muppet Christmas Carol, which people normally say is the most accurate, most book accurate version.
But I think they're stuffed in, like I think they were trying to be really faithful to the book in the Bob Zemeckis one.
(03:53):
So for people who haven't seen Robert Zemeckis' A Christmas Carol, you might not have heard much about it, but you've probably heard about another film he did before called The Polar Express and how much that is just uncanny valley to the extreme.
And I think this was following in its footsteps.
He certainly had not worked out all the kinks of the creepy mocap animation that he was doing, but I think it's decent.
(04:21):
It's interesting watching it because the body movements, everything, even the head.
So the mocap for it has done really well.
Yes, the facial expressions are not.
The facial expressions are creepy. The way the hands interact with faces is weird.
I think my big takeaway from it is after obviously he did Polar Express before this and having done Polar Express and all the complaints people had about it, I can 100 percent understand why he cast Jim Carrey in the lead role.
(04:57):
Jim Carrey is an incredibly physical actor.
Even his facial expressions are so overdramatic that they were captured pretty well on this, whereas Gary Oldman's facial expressions, you're like, what is happening with this character's face right now?
Colin Firth, Gary Oldman's were kind of mediocre. Colin Firth is horrifying in this movie because he's so subtle in his acting that it just does not happen in the mocap. So he's got permanent fixed robot face while he's supposed to be the jolly character.
(05:34):
And it's very unsettling. It's like the most unsettling I've ever seen Colin Firth be.
Not that he tries to be unsettling very much, but I don't think he was trying in this either.
It's just his style of acting did not work with that kind of mocap.
Whereas Jim Carrey, I get it. You know what I mean?
I hear that they're putting Jim Carrey in a movie like this and I'm like, I understand without even looking at it why you've chosen Jim Carrey for your mocap.
(06:03):
I don't think the message from Charles Dickens novel really carries over.
To which one? Either?
No, I'm saying to now.
Oh, okay. Yeah, it does. All of the horrible CEOs don't get visited by ghosts.
(06:31):
None of them would care.
I don't know. I was going to say something very topical and then I remember this is a child friendly episode.
Some stuff happened recently.
Some stuff happened recently.
And a very well-known billionaire then started using his child in a way that would be deemed irresponsible.
(06:52):
Other well-known billionaires have forgiven a lot of debt because they have been visited by some ghosts.
Each of one ghost.
And made to reconsider what they're doing.
Including the new CEO.
I think the message is coming through.
(07:13):
I think Dickens was onto something.
I think we need to scare rich people.
Rich people who don't want to share. Specifically rich people who don't want to share any of their money.
Need to have some frights put into them.
Because it works. At least three frights.
Just put in them.
I'm worried now because I forgot that we were doing a child friendly episode and I'm worried that I said something bad already.
(07:38):
But I don't think I did.
I think we're good.
Okay.
No, it's very interesting because obviously they're very different styles.
The classic hand animated versus the beginning of not photorealistic because I still don't think we're quite there.
(08:00):
I think that's what he was going for then.
Yeah.
It does have the uncanny valley issue with the faces and the eyes.
The lighting is really good.
I think the essence of the story is very much like honestly out of all the other than the Bill Murray movie.
(08:22):
Yeah, which is not child friendly.
I think I did watch that as a child.
Scrooge.
I think other than the Bill Murray movie, I think and this is something that is bringing a lot of acid reflux into my throat as I say it.
I think the Muppets one is the best.
Oh, it is.
Not because I don't like Muppets.
(08:43):
It's just silly in a fun way.
But it's also very accurate.
Yeah, very accurate.
I think maybe we'll revisit this in a few years and compare and rewatch some adaptations and compare Muppets versus Carl specifically to the Jim Carrey one.
(09:05):
I think they both are incredibly accurate to the book.
I think the Bob the Maggots one went out of its way to include some stuff that doesn't get included in any other adaptations.
But I think he kind of really leaned, I was going to say reimagined it, but I don't think he reimagined it.
I think he really leaned into the horror of it.
(09:27):
So there's a lot of moments and I think that's the big difference between it and the Muppets versus Carl.
But also the Mickey one that we just watched is that those are kind of lighthearted and even where they do lean into the sadness of it, they don't make it horror.
Even the Close to Christmas Future, he's a bit creepy in both of those.
(09:51):
In the Scrooge and the Muppet versus Carl that we just watched.
We previously did Scrooge and the Muppet versus Carl and I don't think either of them did this, but both the ones we watched this year did,
which is the Ghost of Christmas Future pushing him into the really deep grave with the fiery coffin at the bottom of it.
(10:16):
That's frightening and they did do that in both of these.
Pete as Ghost of Christmas Future pushes Scrooge and he's like ducked into it and that's scary.
But I felt like the Robert Zemeckis one really leans into the frightening parts of it, but without making it not suitable for children.
It's not a horror movie, it's still suitable for kids, but I don't know what the rating on it is,
(10:41):
but I would be cautious about showing it to younger kids because it's definitely, it gets pretty intense with the scary parts.
It gets very scary.
I think the best, because it's Ghost of Christmas Future and I think the Jim Carrey version did a really good job
(11:02):
because it is basically just a shadow the entire time and it is very unnerving and unworldly
where you've got this candle and then a giant and then just a shadow.
Yeah and more importantly, it's his shadow. It's not just a shadow that shows up.
(11:25):
Because they do a little bit of that shadow work in Mickey's Christmas Girl.
Marley shows up as the shadow and he's just a shadow on the wall separate to Scrooge.
It's not as intimidating because it is played by Goofy.
So the fact that he falls down.
I did think, I made a note at one point that I was like, Goofy as Marley is a choice.
(11:47):
He's notoriously the slightly dimwitted, good guy, nice, friendly guy,
and then they cast him as Scrooge's partner in crime who'd been stealing from the poor or whatever.
So he's an interesting character.
(12:08):
Scrooge or Marley?
Well both of them together sort of in that relationship.
This is the thing that why the Muppet Christmas Carol version is by far the most rounded
and goes into the most detail which is interesting.
The Jim Carrey one does touch on it a little bit but not in depth as much.
He was a loner at school.
(12:32):
He met a really fantastic boss who basically bankrupted himself looking after his staff.
He fell in love and I think the only thing missing out of the Muppet version is the song that's been cut out.
But if you put the song back in where it's supposed to go, Chef's Kiss, brilliant movie.
(12:56):
You see the sort of like, the fact that like, this is the thing that like gets you when you watch this different variations
of the same story as many times as we've had at this point.
You never see any moments with his family, any sort of positivity in his life except for like one tiny error of his life.
(13:24):
What do we do in the Bob Zemeckis one?
Because his sister comes to visit him at school.
His sister comes to visit him and she says like, you can come home, father is being much nicer than normal.
So you get to, just in like a moment, you get to learn A, he has a little sister.
Which I mean, it makes sense because he's got a nephew and all these adaptations
(13:46):
and the mother of the nephew is never mentioned, his sibling is never mentioned.
You're like, who is it? His sister or his brother?
So he's got a sister and she appears in the Bob Zemeckis version
and she in like two lines of dialogue or something reveals that he has an abusive father.
So he lives in a boarding home.
Yeah, but we know he's in a boarding home and like, you know, we're not talking about it this time,
(14:10):
but you keep referencing it anyways, but in The Muppet Girls of the Girl,
it's made very clear that Ebenezer Scrooge is the only kid who doesn't go home for the holidays.
That he stays in this boarding school throughout the holidays when everyone else has gone home to their families.
So he doesn't spend the time with his family.
And then in this Robert Zemeckis one, you learn that, you know, something is going on at home
(14:34):
that his father is cruel to him and either doesn't let him come home
or it's so bad that he doesn't want to leave the boarding school or he's the loner and no one likes him anyway.
You know what I mean?
Because that was what I was kind of getting at.
It's not you don't see the first time you ever see any positivity in his life is when he's an adult.
(14:55):
Yeah, when he's an apprentice.
Yeah, when he's an apprentice and he's working for this person who bankrupts himself.
He falls in love with a young woman and then it's his obsession with money and this because they're,
I wouldn't say loan sharks. They're like what they're basically they're they're in the business.
(15:20):
Yeah, yeah, because they're mortgage brokers, but they're not exclusively right.
They do have more. They do have mortgages as well as other loans.
Yeah, so their loan, loan, loan brokers.
And when his best friend slash business partner passes away, he just becomes more disheveled and what's it evil,
(15:47):
but just like borderline unredeemable.
The way he treats his staff is like, oh, you know, I gave you a promotion last, you know, not a promotion,
a pay rise last year of like 50 cents.
Yeah, I mean, that's a lot back in that day, but still.
Not based on the amount of money he's earning.
It's not like he's doing in the accounting.
(16:10):
Yeah, it's interesting because he also like in both these adaptations.
I guess I have read the book, but it's been a while.
He only has one staff member.
Right. There's no one else.
It's just him and him and Cratchit.
And like, and I guess that's also a, you know, money saving thing.
(16:32):
But I think both of these kind of touch on him being afraid of spending money and being afraid of not having money.
I think especially in the Robert Zemeckis one, like the conversation he has with the fiance that ends the relationship,
you know, because in both cases, it's that he cares more about the money than her.
(16:55):
And in weirdly, the Disney one is worse for this.
Well, they're both both movies to Disney, but the Scrooge McDuck one is worse because he literally like forecloses her mortgage and is like, get out of here.
You're poor.
Whereas in the Bob Zemeckis one, he kind of it's because she's saying, you know, you've changed and you're not the man that I fell in love with anymore.
(17:18):
And it's a lovely performance by Robin Wright.
But it's that they were poor together.
And she's saying to him, like, I'm still poor.
And like, if you met me now, you wouldn't be interested because you care so much about the money.
But it's that he has spent like, I think it's it's kind of implied that he started getting into this business to get money for them together, to live their lives together.
(17:47):
But his fear of not having money and his fear of going back to being poor is so all encompassing that he forgets to live the life that he was saving for, which is really sad.
And it does. I mean, that happens. And it's like money is money is tough.
And it's not. Yeah, that's you know, you'll you'll learn this, children.
(18:12):
No, it's but it is, you know, it is hard when when you have to work hard to survive and then you and then you get enough money to survive on.
It's very hard to turn that switch off and to say, I have money.
I can spend it on this thing. I have money.
(18:34):
I can spend it building this life that I wanted to build. And instead, like he doesn't even have like a very stately home or whatever.
You know, I mean, he does.
He has like a housekeeper in the in the Bob's Nexus version.
So he so he has enough money to pay a staff at his house as well.
(18:55):
But it's very much that like he doesn't buy extravagances with this money.
It's it's money that's holding it like a dragon.
Yeah, because he's he's so obsessed with getting money and keeping money that he's not actually using it to live.
And he said he does say that at the end, like Jim Carrey Jim Carrey's and Scrooge says that at the end of the movie, he says you can't take it with you.
(19:22):
You know, like because he's just had this flash of his own mortality and knows that he's going to die.
And people are, you know, not going to care about it because of what a horrible person he's been.
And also because he just hasn't been building connections with people.
He hasn't been socializing. He had one friend and that he had he had a partner and he isolated himself from her.
And then he had one friend and that friend died.
(19:45):
And this is a very lonely man who isn't letting himself feel that loneliness because he's just in this anxiety.
It shows very, very heavily with obviously Bob Cratchit, but also with his nephew,
because his nephew is literally coming with an olive branch and being like, hey, you know, come, you know, you don't have to do anything.
Yeah. Come over to my house, meet my fiance.
(20:08):
But he's like, I don't why would I keep your poor like what are you doing with your life?
You got to hoard all the wealth like a dragon. Yeah.
And everyone will be afraid of you rather than like in awe of you.
You don't actually help with your money. You just hold it all.
And it's not until the second ghost comes along, the ghost of Christmas present.
(20:32):
Yeah. Where he's taken and showing Bob Cratchit's family.
Yeah. And the struggles they're dealing with.
And it's very interesting because they look this up of what's wrong with Tiny Tim.
Yeah. And this is where the Muppets one is is very accurate.
Yeah. So no one else mentions what's actually wrong with them.
Because it's what do you remember what it is?
(20:53):
The ancient in the Muppets version.
It's in the Muppets version because the thing is that in the book, they don't say what it is.
I mean, no version they say what it is. But in the Muppets version, I believe they give him signs of tuberculosis.
Right. Is that right? I don't remember.
I think it's I can't remember. I feel like tuberculosis made sense.
(21:14):
I'm glad you've been watching too much. John Green. Yeah.
Everything is tuberculosis.
So what I did some research on is there's two possible but the most likely is Ricketts.
Right. OK. Maybe that's what they did.
They definitely I think when they made the Muppets version, they really researched into what the illnesses of the time were.
(21:36):
Yeah. And made just gave him symptoms of what was the most likely illness of the time.
And that was Ricketts. Yeah.
There's something else that was related to kidney function. Right.
Yes. There's two two possibilities, both of which would have been around and heavily affecting children of that era.
(21:58):
Yeah. When the book was written. So it's either possibility.
No one's really like. Yeah. Nailed it.
And I think it's important to note that it's whatever is wrong with him is something that can be improved.
Yes. Because in the version where they in the Ghosts of Christmas Future version of events where Scrooge continues the way he is and Cratchit keeps living, you know, poorly on a penny.
(22:31):
Tiny Tim does pass away. Yeah.
So it's probably something to do with nutrition. And he warms like being in cold damp spaces.
You know, something that that's that's really impacted by that, because then in obviously the version where Scrooge actually helps and gives them money and gives them, you know, things for their home that can that can help them.
(22:53):
Suddenly Tiny Tim gets to actually live. Yeah.
You know, and that's maybe that's why my brain is going to tuberculosis, because that's how the world is at the moment.
That tuberculosis.
I know it's a it's a hard word for the children.
You might have if you've heard of it at all, you might have heard it as TB people.
(23:18):
I'm short of just TB. It's an it's a sickness that used to be really common everywhere. And lots of people died of it a long time ago. And now we have cures and treatments and it's really easy to treat.
And it's not even very expensive to treat.
But there's parts of the world that are really poor.
(23:41):
And they don't have the treatment.
So there's there's some really wonderful people working to like actually get that treatment to the people who need it in those parts of the world.
You know, so it's getting better. But definitely, you know, that's reminiscent of the Tiny Tim thing for me that like if he had the treatments, he can get better.
(24:08):
But because of a situation and because of the lack of wealth, he doesn't have that opportunity in the original version.
And that's sad.
But he can be saved and so can all of the, you know, people who currently have tuberculosis.
Anyway, there's no call to action there.
Ask your parents about it.
(24:30):
Ask your parents about tuberculosis today.
There's an organization called Partners in Health.
No, if you want to help a kid this Christmas, I am not.
What is happening?
Hi, everyone. I'm Joan Green.
Everything is tuberculosis.
(24:52):
Anyway, the title of his new book, genuinely is the title of his new book.
And I will buy it because I want to read the thing he's written about a guy he actually knows who had tuberculosis.
And got treatment because of people going over and helping and is now, you know, someone who, like Tiny Tim, could have died quite young and has actually survived adulthood and said.
(25:13):
Anyway, we're not here to talk about tuberculosis today.
But yeah, I feel like they don't show a lot of the Tiny Tim stuff in the Scrooge Wicked Up version.
In Mickey's Christmas Carol, it's so brief.
(25:35):
But what they do in Mickey's Christmas Carol, which I appreciate because they don't say it in the other one and I don't think they say it anywhere else, is they explain why they go to those places.
The Ghost of Christmas Present.
Because I feel like in the other versions of the scene and definitely in the Robert Zemeckis one, they just go.
They're just like, let's go here.
(25:57):
And he's like, why are we here?
Whereas in Mickey's Christmas Carol, I can't remember the exact line, but the Ghost of Christmas Present says something about the people who care.
Oh, because Scrooge is saying, why should I show kindness?
No one knows ever shown me kindness.
(26:18):
And he's like, well, you haven't given them the opportunity to.
And he's like, who would want to?
And he's like, where he says something like, who has kindness in their heart for me?
And Scrooge, and that's actually quite a telling line that Scrooge doesn't feel like anyone cares about him.
And he uses that as an excuse to not care about anyone else.
But he obviously is feeling hurt.
(26:42):
And that's probably from, you know, I think, honestly, I think Ebenezer Scrooge has anxiety.
I'm diagnosing him.
I think Ebenezer Scrooge has anxiety and he like, he doesn't like himself.
And as a result, he like isolates himself from people.
And then when he does that, he's like, they don't like me.
That's why I've been isolated.
(27:04):
So, but that's what the Ghost of Christmas Present is showing him, is that he's showing him people who do have kindness in their heart for Scrooge, for people who do have a good thing to say about Scrooge.
And then weirdly, they don't actually do it in that version because, you know, Mickey Mouse as Bob Cratchit doesn't say it and then they don't go to see Fred.
(27:25):
But in the Bob Zemeckis version, you know, Mickey Mouse, oh no, not Mickey Mouse.
Bob Cratchit, there's no Mickey Mouse in the Bob Zemeckis version.
When they go to see Gary Oldman's Bob Cratchit and Gary Oldman as Tiny Tim, which is still weird to me.
You know, he does a toast to the founder of the feast, to Mr. Scrooge.
(27:48):
He's saying we can't, like, I know we're living on a small amount and he's got so many kids in this version.
There's so many of Cratchit children.
But he's saying that, you know, we can only afford this small goose between our family.
We can't afford a big turkey.
We probably never will afford a turkey, maybe someday in the future.
But we have food.
(28:10):
We have a house and we have food and the reason we have these things is because I have an employer, Mr. Scrooge,
and he has paid for these by giving me wages.
And he is genuinely grateful and he genuinely feels love in his heart for Scrooge.
And his wife is having none of it, but he still convinces her to let's do a toast to Mr. Scrooge.
(28:31):
And then you have Fred's dinner where they're playing the, you know, the guess who kind of game.
They're talking about an unwanted creature and it's, oh, it's your uncle Scrooge.
And Scrooge is again, he recoils in on himself.
And like the whole way through it, you can tell that he knows.
Because I think, you know, looking back at the Muppet version, because I can't compare this to Mickey's,
(28:54):
because they don't even go see Fred.
In the Muppet version, he's like, oh, he's trying to guess.
He's like, oh, a rat, a cat, you know.
Whereas in this one, you can tell instantly from Jim Carrey's body language that his version of Scrooge
knows that what they're talking about is him.
Or he assumes it, because that's how he feels about himself.
And he's like recoiling in and trying to get away and kind of look away.
(29:17):
And then they say it. And then Fred is like, but as much as we joke, you know, I do wish my uncle well.
And I hope that he's having, you know, even though he wouldn't want me to wish him a Merry Christmas,
I hope he has one. And, you know, and he's really genuine about it.
Which is why Scrooge at the end of the movie comes to the dinner.
That's what he chooses to do, is to go actually take up Fred's, and he does this in both of these versions,
(29:43):
to take up Fred's offer and be like, actually, I will come to your dinner.
And in the Scrooge McDuck version, in Mickey's Christmas Carol, he just sees Fred on the street
and is like, I'm going to come to dinner. And Fred is like, oh my God, great, like, come along.
Whereas in, you know, the Bob's and Mac's Christmas Carol, he just shows up.
And he shows up at that moment where they're playing the game and they're about to guess that it's him.
(30:06):
And then, you know, and you can see him being anxious when they all kind of look at him silently
when he says he's there and he hopes that he'll let them join his dinner.
But then they all like, they're overjoyed that he's actually come and they all rush over to hug him and stuff.
And it's very much that the Ghost of Christmas present was showing him the people who care about him.
(30:28):
And he's saying, like, look at this and listen to what they have to say.
You're not in the room and they only, you know, they are saying positive things about you.
And yes, there is mention of you being a miser because that's who you are.
But they still, despite that, they still care about you and they still want you around.
Yeah, I can't remember how we got onto that.
(30:53):
But that is what he's doing is like he's actually saying, let's go see the people who care about you.
And that's how he ends up seeing them and their families as well.
And I'm realizing that, like, there is space for him with these people and with their families
and that they have all this love and that even, you know, because he doesn't believe in doing stuff for the sake of love.
(31:16):
Because he's been burned before in his own mind when he was the one who actually did it.
So for him to see people who he sees as being poor and not having enough money to look after themselves, whatever,
he sees them with their family, with their friends, with their wives, having a joyous time on less money than he has.
(31:41):
He kind of goes, oh, this is what I've been missing.
Yeah, that's the realization.
The problem is, is that these days, even if you don't give out your money because you have money,
means that you're known, everyone's Googleable.
(32:05):
And I think that's where the lesson of the story has not really moved into this kind of era of our time,
which is sad because it really shows how people who have been affected by greed are expressing their feelings now,
(32:26):
which is not a constructive manner.
I do not agree with the actions taken, but at the same time, it's the only way people are going to change
is if they get visited by ghosts and show in the era of their ways in a time frame where they can actually do something about it.
And, you know, this story, this novel that's been adapted so many times by so different things in so many different ways,
(32:56):
you know, the screen versions, there's TV movies, there's episodes of television shows, there's literally everything under the sun.
It's sort of like that.
We've really Christmas for me and the reason why I've never been such a huge Christmas person, I just feel like it's contaminated.
(33:18):
Christmas to me is family, but the problem is it's not about family, it's about consumerism and consumption and not the illness.
Unless you're tiny team.
Yeah, unless you're tiny team.
Consumption was just no name for tuberculosis.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because it eats you from the inside.
(33:42):
Scary.
Yeah, and I think that's the biggest issue and I think that's really it's not so much in in Christmas Carol because, like you said in the beginning,
he's not spending it on himself.
Yeah.
You know, he's not there with a gold plated chariot with thoroughbred Arabian horses that he's imported.
(34:07):
Yeah.
You know, he must be also cold.
Yeah, you know, he is he's skimping on buying coal.
Yeah, like he's seen that as an unnecessary expense to buy coal.
Yeah, to warm your warm your office enough that your ink defrosts the person who's doing all the work can actually do their job.
(34:28):
Yeah.
It's a very bizarre, bizarre way. And I think, you know, everything you've touched on earlier kind of really like puts him in this little box.
And I just yeah, it really shows because that's that's the difference between obviously this sort of when the story was written versus well, you know, it's hard to say.
(34:52):
I know people are out there doing good, but it does definitely feel like wealth is now used as a status symbol to show excess than it is to help.
Yeah.
When people do things and purchase things for the purposes of changing them for the worse to make themselves look better than actually helping with it.
(35:21):
It really shows kind of like the era we're in, the attitude of people and the fact that people are obsessed and are fans of these people and the things they do.
It's very bizarre because it is just it makes me recoil and honestly lose a little bit of hope. And then honestly, as a person who grew up in the era that I did and where we are as millennials, it's not great, guys.
(35:57):
I think, you know, being trauma to waste is just like a normal everyday thing for us, for our generation.
We've lived through it all, you know, I'm not saying that it's as bad as the generation who would have been children during the wars or been in because, you know, this is not just a Western.
(36:18):
Obviously, I have a Western point of view because I am from the West, but like there are other countries out there that are what?
New Zealand is not West. I mean, I understand what you mean, the concept of the Western world.
Yeah, English speaking countries. Sorry, derailed my train. There are people out there now suffering continuously. And it is the influence on the West on these places by giving these people the ability to do stuff or standing in the way of it ending.
(36:57):
That is, you know, there are things ongoing, you know, the, you know, they're talking about because this is obviously set prior to World War One, you know, even in the trenches of no man's land.
Ask your parents before looking this up when kids looking this one up kids.
(37:19):
You know, even they stop for Christmas. But, you know, you look at what's happening in the Middle East, you look what's happening in Africa, you know, there, there is no Christmas there.
You know, there's this one fight after the other. And you sort of it puts the whole thing in perspective of just like, there are people out there who have billions of dollars who could help cure things like tuberculosis.
(37:52):
Yeah, stop malaria, things like that. And then at the same time, no, they just buy companies that don't need to be bought to make themselves look better. They invest in social media, they buy things so they can't be used against them.
And some sort of the only the only thing I can come off with is the joke about becoming a dragon and hoarding all the wealth and living in a mountain. Because it does feel like that for the people on the outside and we're, we're blessed.
(38:25):
In reality, me and you, for an example, we're blessed. We earn more than we need. We live outside of our means. Well, we don't live outside of our means we live within our means but our means are large enough to sustain our lifestyle in a way where we can do things that I could ever do as a child.
(38:47):
Yeah, you know, my parents have known a home. Here we are. Yeah, you know, yeah, we're renting it off the bank, but still like it is on paper hours. Yeah. I mean, I even I grew up in a home that my parents did own. Yeah, but they only finished paying off mortgages, like last year.
Yeah, you know. And also I didn't what I didn't realize that I was having a conversation with my mother recently is that like our TV is a kid was rented. Yeah. You know, and stuff that I took for granted as a child I didn't realize was like that we you know I had no one, you know, understanding of debt and loans despite watching a lot of them up at Christmas Carol.
(39:29):
I didn't, you know, it never struck me that that's what, you know, my life was built on. And the fact that we own the stuff in our apartment. Yeah. Like none of that is rented. Yeah, other than our mortgage we have we have no debt. We don't have any debt. Yeah. And that is such a privileged place to be in. Yeah.
(39:52):
Now we're not wealthy. No, I wouldn't consider us wealthy. But, but that's based on the fact that we can see because of social media because of television because of the media in general, we are showing examples of other people. It's also because we know we have to work to continue to let you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think if we were wealthy, we would be spending some of that on charity, because I think that's the kind of people that we are. I mean, I do like once a year I donate to charity, you know, it's not regular.
(40:26):
And it's also time is far more important. That's the other big issue with that is you could be, you know, if you're earning so much money is because you're doing something and you're working hard. Yeah. Or you own something that is always because of the way the economy is now always on the precipice of collapsing anyway.
(40:48):
Yeah. We're also, you know, we've come from positions where we have had to, where we haven't been able to live the way that we're living now.
Yeah, the point that like, you know, we put put aside money to save to do something. And then we both feel anxious when we actually have to spend that money to do it. So, you know, are we still haven't replaced our driver. But, you know, we're we're going on a holiday next year.
(41:18):
And we've literally saved up for, you know, two and a half years or whatever to go on this holiday. But we still both felt anxious trying to spend the money to book it. And if we were wealthy, we wouldn't have that. Yeah, that wouldn't be a part of our consciousness.
And it's definitely where you can winding back and let us bear with us folks but winding back to where the movie's point is, it's very much like how Scrooge's mentality is.
(41:44):
Yeah. He came from a place where he didn't have money and he's worked and he's afraid to spend it.
Yeah. And it is very, very telling. Very telling. Obviously, we, from what I experienced with your family, you have limited experience with mine because mine's a little bit rougher than yours.
(42:10):
Christmas is about family. Yeah. And it's and it's that's it's not about, oh, you didn't get me the brand new whatever BMW, you know, or Gucci bag or I don't even know.
I mean, I will say that I did hear a lot as a child that Santa doesn't bring monkeys because I really wanted a pet monkey. I did. I mean, there was a part of me that thought that Santa could just solve all my problems as a child.
(42:41):
Yeah. And my parents had to be like, listen, just be realistic with him, you know, he's a.
I do like that. He can only bring you a limited amount of things.
Yeah. I do like the whole dress story.
Well, that's not to got me a dress and I was like, I didn't know through this.
Yeah. It was like, and how much work your parents had gone through to get it.
(43:02):
We used to make, I mean, I think it's, you know, how my parents grew up. But we used to, when we made lists for Santa, it would be like, you know, we had an amount of things that we might ask for.
And then we just put and a small surprise and a small surprise Santa.
And I guess I thought that dress was and then.
(43:25):
Yeah, I wore it eventually.
It just was like, it's not what I expected.
It was a travel two towns over to find it.
Santa.
I don't know where Santa got that dress.
Anyway, Merry Christmas to all and to all the good night.
Is that it? You're just going to end there.
(43:47):
It's summer here.
Yeah. You want to do trivia?
Yeah, you get into it.
I'm sweating up a storm here.
I haven't gotten a lot, but I'll do the Mickey's Christmas Carol first.
So originally the guy that they got to play Screech McDoug, Alan Young, he wasn't considered for it.
So it's the Mickey's Christmas Carol was actually based on a record that Disney put out about a Christmas Carol and this guy had narrated it, but they didn't want to ask him to play Screech because they thought that he wouldn't agree to do a voice for an animated film.
(44:20):
They thought it was beneath him.
And then he found out about it because one of his friends is preparing to audition for Screech McDoug and he contacted him and be like, hey, I want to audition.
And they were like, oh.
And he was like, listen, I worked in television for five years with a talking horse. At this point in my career, nothing is beneath me.
And he ended up getting the role of Screech McDoug and then voicing Screech McDoug for the rest of his life.
(44:45):
This is the last film that Clarence Nash did the voice of Donald Duck for.
He was the original Donald Duck and he sadly passed away shortly after this film came out.
And it was the first film that Wayne Allwine did the voice of Mickey Mouse.
It was the first film with a new Mickey Mouse, which is interesting because the Muppet Christmas Carol is the first time Kermit was voiced by someone other than Jim Henson.
(45:07):
Right.
So that's interesting.
In the book, Screech's nephew, Fred, is married.
But this is the only I think the only version of a Christmas Carol where he's not married, which presumably was done because they cast Daisy Duck as Screech's love interest when she's normally Donald's wife.
And also, I just thought this was a nice fact.
(45:30):
The director, Bernie Madison, had started working at Disney in 1953 in the mail department.
So he started off working in the mail department and then, you know, within 30 years he was directing films.
That's cute.
For the Robert Zemeckis one,
(45:52):
apparently Robert Zemeckis has always wanted to make an adaptation of a Christmas Carol, A, because he doesn't think that any other adaptations have really gotten to what he believes is the heart of
Charles Dickens's interpretation of it. He thinks it was very visual novel and that Charles Dickens almost made it like it was to be a movie, despite not knowing that movies existed.
(46:17):
He didn't specify what it was that he thought, but based on watching it, I think he wanted to lean into the horror of it.
So Bob Cratchit in this film is very short, which apparently is how he was described in the book.
So it's interesting that he's not in a lot of other adaptations. I would argue that he is when he's played by Garmett LaFrog.
(46:39):
And this one is almost completely true. It's the novel, so the book spends a lot more time in the present, especially at the houses of Bob Cratchit and his nephew Fred.
But it also shows strife around the globe and caves on ships that is relieved by Christmas joy.
And then the future scene. Yeah, so the future scene with the horse coming alive and chasing crows is not in the book.
(47:06):
That's about the only thing they had left. And also the ghost of Christmas yet to come basically doesn't move except pointing his finger, which is more accurate in the mobile one than this one, I think.
And then the rest of my trivia is all based around the budget and box office of this movie.
(47:27):
So I'm going to just read rather than tell you the budget and the box office straight off the bat, I'm going to read these three bits of trivia.
So one, the film opened at number one in 3683 theaters and it grossed thirty point one million dollars in its opening weekend with an average of eight thousand dollars per theater.
(47:50):
In the United Kingdom, it topped the box office on two different occasions, first when it first opened and then five weeks later it leapfrogged box office chart toppers at 2012.
Sorry, sorry, but box office chart toppers 2012, the movie at the Twilight Saga New Moon, Paranormal Activity and also another family Christmas movie called Nativity.
(48:17):
So you would think based on all those that it did really well.
But because of how high the production of marketing costs were, it lost the studio a hundred million dollars.
And the president of the Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures Group at the time, Mark Cerati, and the head of worldwide marketing had to resign as a result of this movie.
(48:40):
Yeah, so the budget was two hundred million dollars and the box office was three hundred and twenty five million.
So they like they did incredibly well in theaters, but they had cost so much money to begin with that literally it cost the studio a bunch of money and the guy had to resign.
(49:02):
Isn't that nuts? Yeah, it is. That's just crazy.
Yeah, I guess I guess that's all there is to talk about.
I would recommend children listening to this if you're still listening, get the book, get your parents to read A Christmas Carol, the book to you.
Yeah, that's a very good little book. You can get some that have got nice pictures in it.
(49:24):
I read it myself.
I think when I was 10, maybe so that might be the reading level of it. But then again, I was just really into Charles Dickens at the time. I also read Great Expectations when I was like 11.
So I don't know if that's every child's interest.
Yeah, see, I was I was a different child. I really liked Kidnapped and The Hobbit.
(49:50):
Yeah, I really like The Hobbit. I got The Hobbit. I think I got The Hobbit for Christmas when I was 10.
And also there is a book called Letters from Father Christmas that is by JR Otokia.
That is a nice read, but maybe for older kids for reasons.
And see. Thank you for joining us.
(50:13):
If this is your first time, please go back through our catalog and enjoy either just the Christmas episodes or some other things.
You may see a movie pop up there or there here or there that appeals to you.
And if you're a long time listener, thank you for joining us for these lovely Christmas episodes and we will catch you in the new year.
(50:36):
Yeah, I think this is coming out after Christmas.
So I hope you had a good Christmas and have a good new year.
Bye.
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