February 10, 2025 • 47 mins
For Valentine's Day, we're comparing romcom classic 10 Things I Hate About You (1999) and Deliver Us From Eva (2003), two "modern" adaptations of Shakespeare's The Taming of the Shrew.
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The Movies:
10 Things I Hate About You (1999)
Directed by Gil Junger
Written by Karen McCullah & Kirsten Smith
Based on ‘The Taming of the Shrew’ by William Shakespeare
iMDb Rating: 7.3
Directed by Gary Hardwick
Written by James Iver Mattson, B.E. Brauner & Gary Hardwick
Based on ‘The Taming of the Shrew’ by William Shakespeare
iMDB Rating: 6.0
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Content Warning:
Discussions of emotional manipulation and abuse, drug abuse and addiction, sexism, racism, ableism and homophobia.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music
(00:18):
Hi everyone, I'm Lisa.
And I'm Nick.
And you're listening to It Takes Two, the podcast where two people take two movies with the same plot or premise, and watch and discuss them.
It is the Valentine's era coming up for February's episode.
So in this episode, we're covering off two movies based on William Shakespeare's Taming of the Shrew,
(00:38):
1999's 10 Things I Hate About You, and 2003's Delivering Us from Eva.
Deliver Us from Eva.
Deliver Us from Eva.
You got closer that time.
Yeah, because last, when we tried this before, I said Surviving Eva, like twice.
Yeah, so these are both modern adaptations, like modern at the time, over 20 years old now, adaptations of The Taming of the Shrew.
(01:07):
Yeah, where do you want to start with these?
I think the tone difference of these movies is very different.
You've got one that is a very, it's kind of a dead genre now because it doesn't seem to be like the big blockbuster hits of like the high school,
American high school sort of genre of being like everybody's super weird and it's prom and all that garbage that goes along with that genre of movie.
(01:39):
Like Carrie that we did last time.
Yeah, exactly.
And then you get a very different tone of like an actual family and family dynamics in the 2003 version,
which comes across with a very strong African-American cast.
But at the same time, I just don't feel like it was necessary.
(02:03):
And I go back to Death at a Funeral, which was they had the weird Americanization, which had a very, very, very strong African-American cast, except for James Morrison.
I was going to say Alan Tudyk.
(02:25):
No, that's the other one.
Yeah, I know.
No, I was going to say Tyrion Lannister.
Oh, Peter Dinklage.
Peter Dinklage who started both of them.
Why can I not remember his name?
You know, it's just it's very different.
Like you get that very American high school angsty, like overtone.
(02:48):
And then you get a very suave African-American thing.
And the only weird part about it was LL Cool J starring in it.
I don't think he was.
Was he popular at the time?
No, was LL Cool J ever popular?
I don't know.
I've seen him in very few movies where he's actually taken the lead.
And I think this is one of them.
(03:10):
Yeah, I see where you're coming from.
I don't understand.
I feel like they could have made a different movie.
I feel like there is no reason to make a second modern adaptation of The Taming of the Shrew within five years of Ten Things I Hate About You, which was a very popular, like it's considered like a rom-com classic.
Yeah. You know, and it is a really like to this day, it's a really enjoyable movie.
(03:34):
I don't think Deliverance from Eva was as enjoyable.
Like, I don't think I'll watch that again, whereas I probably will watch Ten Things I Hate About You again.
I don't know if you'll watch either again, because you're not as much of a rom-com person.
But yeah, I feel like they could have just gone with a totally different story.
They also like they didn't.
It's like very loosely based on Taming of the Shrew, I feel like, The Deliverance from Eva.
(03:56):
Yeah.
So they could have just like done a different story and not based on that.
There was a lot of potential, I think, in that movie to be something outstanding.
And, you know, because you're talking about family and you're talking like because in that adaptation, you know, just talking about four sisters, they lost their parents.
(04:26):
They have like conjoined inheritance accounts.
They live in the house together.
And it is basically three young men trying to separate the family to like.
And I just found it very confusing.
Yeah, it's really weird, because like at the beginning, I was like, oh, the sisters all have like kind of annoying partners.
(04:49):
And by the end, you're like, these are horrible people and they should not stay with them.
But then they all do. And that baffles me.
So the whole premise is that for both these movies is they want to spend time with these women who have antisocial sisters or difficult sister.
(05:13):
And they pay some other person to try and run interference.
And that's how you get LL Cool J's character involved, who's like this player player.
You know, he's real smart. He talks up, you know, he ends up on a date with some lady when they bump into him and he like somebody else.
He's dating comes along and he's just like, you know, ladies, don't be mad at me.
(05:36):
Don't be mad at each other. Be mad at me.
You know, I'm the ones, you know, like, you know, that steps out and they're like, oh, we should pay this guy five thousand dollars to like.
Like psychologically torture the sister that psychologically tortures us.
Yeah, that is, by the way, the psychological torture element of it is closer to the Shakespeare.
(06:00):
Because in the actual timing of the show, the guy that they get to it's that the younger sister can't get married until the older sister is married.
And the guy they get to marry her then like tortures her till she is like basically an obedient slave.
And then he wins like a prize for having the most obedient wife.
It's it's really fucked up.
(06:21):
It's fifteen hundred comedy.
So I'm glad that that's not how either these go.
But yeah, I feel like Ten Things I Heard About You is generally closer to the Shakespeare than the rest from Eva.
But in that aspect, the kind of manipulation.
It's a lot more rounded of a movie.
You get a little bit more character development with even the background characters and side characters.
(06:45):
There's you know, I know I don't like it, but the the high school setting kind of makes this movie work better.
You know, this modern adaptation of people living in the suburbs and just trying to survive day to day.
And there's this weird the men in the relationship are awful.
(07:09):
Yeah, versus this concept of an overprotective father protecting two daughters.
We never see a mother in this situation.
So could she die?
It's kind of ambiguous.
Yeah, because what what they say is that she's not going to have the conversation about the pearls and their mother's pearls.
(07:30):
And she says, well, she's not going to come back for them.
Yeah. So it definitely feels like he's a single dad raising two daughters.
He also is a doctor and works predominantly and one of his quotes from the movie is Up to My Elbows in Proscenta.
Yeah. Yeah. So he does deliver babies.
I guess, Obscani, obstetrician.
Yeah. I don't know. I don't know enough about baby delivery.
(07:53):
Yeah. And is terrified that his daughters are going to get teen pregnant.
Yeah. Because that's predominantly who he's working with in these birthing suites.
I assume that's not really predominantly who he's working with, but he does see them.
Yeah. He mentioned something about like a 15 year old crack.
Yeah, that does sound though like he's like hamming it up for his kids to try and scare them straight.
(08:18):
I love like a very iconic thing in Ten Things I Had About You is the belly.
Where like before his daughter goes out on a date, he makes her wear like a pregnant belly.
And it's got like, it's called like the empathy belly.
I assume it's for like, you know, fathers to be to wear and be like, oh, okay, this is what it feels like.
Yeah. Carrying a tiny person inside you.
(08:40):
But I love that he does before his daughters go out on a date, he's like, you got to wear the belly.
Do I need this?
And every time someone tries to kiss you, think about this.
It's, yeah, it's a very interesting like cast.
Heath Ledger, obviously being one of the main characters in this.
(09:03):
It's great to see Heath being able to actually use his real voice and not having to put an American tone.
Yeah. He was a very young and handsome, talented actor.
And it's a shame that he was taken by drug abuse and drug addiction.
And it's just, yeah, it plays together really well.
None of the actors come off as annoying or unbelievable.
(09:30):
Yeah, I just think it's much more better rounded movie, which is a shame because I think they had potential and deliverance from Eva.
And I just think they ruined it by toxic masculinity and toxic relationships where it's like, oh, no, it's not us.
That's the problem. The men is clearly the sister who's alone and protective because she was the parental figure when they were very young.
(09:59):
Yeah, because she was 18 as the oldest of them.
And she gave up her dream career to take up two jobs to be able to afford to look after her three younger sisters.
And then the sisters partners are annoyed that they're influenced by their sister who raised them.
Can I say something controversial?
(10:21):
It's a platform for you to do that.
I think people can complain to me or write in the comments or whatever.
But I think not the only factor, but a key factor in why 10 Things I Hate About You is more well rounded in the sense that you're describing than delivers from Eva is that 10 Things I Hate About You was written by women.
(10:48):
And to the first read, it was written by men.
Right.
Not to say men are bad writers, not to say men can't write rom-coms because they absolutely can.
But it explains why when the movie is predominantly about this core group of four sisters, the people writing it don't have the experience to be like, this is what a group of four sisters are actually like.
(11:10):
And instead are like, this is why four sisters are annoying to men.
Yeah.
Whereas 10 Things I Hate About You is largely, even though we're kind of introduced to a lot of the concepts through Cameron, who is Joseph Gordon-Levitt's character.
Baby. Baby Livett.
It is predominantly from the viewpoint of the women and their relationship with each other and their relationship with the people around them.
(11:35):
Because I think they are the only ones you actually see a home life of.
Yeah.
Heath's character, Levitt's character, their friend who's forgettable and I can't remember the actor's name.
That's very, very long, if I remember correctly.
Is this Michael?
(11:55):
Yeah, David. David Cromhoites.
I'm going to go with that.
Right.
Yeah.
You never see any of their background of like where they're raised from.
And I know that's not like the like everything about the high school teen drama genre annoys the hell of me because we've all been.
(12:17):
Well, I'm assuming you're over an age where you're listening to this podcast that you've been in that sort of situation and realize how folly all of these stereotypes of like people sitting on the quad and giant mass groups.
All just like mulling around while the main characters walk through and have like a very confidential conversation.
(12:39):
Yeah.
And no one interacts with anybody except like the weird little groups they're sitting in.
Yeah, I feel that's not what my experience of school is like.
I don't think it's anybody's.
I mean, it happens so often in American movies that you have to wonder at least in that time period is what American schools are like because you've got clueless mean girls 10 things they hate about you.
(12:59):
What you did last summer scream.
Yeah, they're all in that same.
They all have that same kind of like everyone has their clicks at this school.
But also, here's the thing.
Here's the difference between I certainly where I went to school and I think where you went to school versus American schools.
I had 30 people in my class and 120 people my whole year, and that was considered large.
(13:24):
Americans have 500 plus people in their year.
Yeah.
Like, that's a ridiculous amount of people.
So you can kind of understand how they end up being broken into like groups and not actually intermingling with everyone on the year.
The thing that annoys me is that the clicks that they have in these movies are all like one thing.
Yeah.
Like, it's like, oh, here's the stoners.
(13:45):
They all have dreadlocks.
They all wear like rustifying clothing style.
Here's the preachy rich kids.
Here's like the goth, the nerds.
Like, it's very down to like, you know, let's make like caricatures of like actual humans.
Yeah. And that's why like, I mean, that's what they do in Mean Girls as well.
(14:07):
And the kind of one of the central conflicts in it is that she actually, while she is pretty unpopular, she also is a nerd and can join like the mathletes or whatever it is.
And, you know, and her friends outside of the Mean Girls clique are, you know, two people who don't really fit.
I mean, just one of these things like they might fit multiple and they might fit none, which is really how most people are.
(14:33):
It's also interesting that two of the main characters in it are like not exchange students, but they're like new to the school.
Heath Ledger's characters like Bean, like Bean moves around a lot and he goes to different schools.
And then Gordon Livett's dad is in the military.
So he's an army brat and they keep moving to schools and that's why.
I think Heath Ledger's one was that he has been in that school for a while, but he was gone for a year.
(14:56):
That's right. Yeah.
So he's been gone for a year.
So people have all these rumors about him.
Rumors about him like, should you be drinking alcohol when you don't have a liver?
Yeah.
So he's like anti-social, doesn't really hang out with or like share his personal life with anyone.
And he's been disappeared for a year and he seems like, you know, this cool, unachievable guy.
(15:17):
I don't know if he's cool.
I think to the guys in the movie.
Yeah. He smokes in class, he pulls out a switchblade and stabs a frog in the frog death section thing,
which has seemed to be in every high school movie.
Like I did two types of science thing.
I don't remember taking anything apart.
(15:38):
We did a cow's heart.
Oh, I remember like looking at organs, but it's not like each person has issued a frog.
We had to bring in our own cow's heart and cut it up.
Okay. What was that like going to your mum?
Hey, I need a cow's heart.
She just went to the butcher and got it.
(15:59):
It was very normal.
Like every class did it.
That's bizarre.
Like where did they get the frogs from?
Yeah, the frogs, I don't know.
But that seems to be again, a thing that's in a lot of American movies.
It's even in like, it's in Starship Troopers as well.
Like, they're not taking a frog apart.
It's in like The Simpsons, right?
I would love for any of our American listeners to please reach out to us and let us know.
(16:24):
Like, did you take frogs apart?
Did you dissect live frogs in school?
Like, is this a thing?
Was your school weird and clicky like it is in the movie?
Like we would love to know.
Did you have archery at the same time as marching?
Do you have someone playing golf onto your pitch that people are playing soccer on?
(16:45):
Don't get me wrong.
I know from looking at the notes, it was filmed in multiple locations in multiple states.
It's a real school that they filmed in.
That's insane.
Like gorgeous grounds, gorgeous buildings.
None of the people there were actual students in the school.
I'm saying like gorgeous grounds, gorgeous building.
Like the aesthetics of that alone is ridiculous.
(17:06):
Yeah, I think if I remember correctly, they didn't once film on a set.
Yeah, the entire film was shot on location.
But yeah, that was a real school.
It was built as a railway station, if I remember correctly.
It does scream railway station.
And then there was a fire, so it never actually became a railway station.
And then they turned it into a school instead.
Of course, downgrading from public transport to public education.
(17:30):
I think the marching band are actual students, but not from that school,
because that school didn't actually have a marching band.
So they got a marching band from a different school.
I think some of them might be from that school,
but they had to teach them how to march because they just were like the band.
They didn't have a marching band.
Anyway, it's a real school.
(17:50):
But I don't know if the students did what the students in the movie do.
Yeah, the deliverance from Eva had very like, I was going to say hygienic,
but that's not really the...
She is a health inspector.
So kind of, I think that's where the word crept into my brain from.
(18:11):
Yeah.
Very sterile setting.
It's either in a house or in a bar.
There's very few scenes that are like outside of those places.
You know, you get a few kitchen scenes where he's delivering meat,
which apparently is his job, and he only needs $5,000 to buy a house.
And also he like seems to only deliver meat to places on the same day she's inspecting them.
(18:35):
Yeah.
Which is a bit strange.
Yeah, it's a lot less flavorsome in just like eating the scenery.
You get a big party, the houses, the school,
you know, they're out and about doing weird stuff.
(18:56):
Like he escapes from detention because she flashes the gym coach.
And then they're automatically jump to scene, no dialogue between the two of them,
because, you know, he immediately thanks her for getting them out of detention.
While they're paddling boats in the middle of the lake on paddle boats.
And then they go play paintball, but it's not paintball.
(19:17):
It's like paint water balloons.
It's like gun free paintball.
Yeah.
And then make out and hey, and then they're angry at each other again.
It's very, will they, won't they?
But we both know they will kind of like, why are you teasing it out?
Yeah, I think in both, obviously in both movies,
(19:38):
the guy is originally paid to go out with her
and then kind of sees how difficult she is.
And it actually, he actually likes it.
Like in both cases, he's kind of amused by how difficult she is with people.
Because in Delivers from Eva, while he's delivering meat, he sees her tear down a guy
as a health inspector and he's just like, heck yeah.
And in 10 Things I Hate About You, it's that she reverses into Joey's car.
(20:01):
And he's just like, he's like, yes, the chaos.
And, you know, and so in both cases, it's kind of like these guys,
you know, if these couples had gotten together organically,
you know, if they had met organically, they possibly would have ended up together anyway.
Yeah.
Especially Delivers from Eva, she like instantly takes a liking to him.
(20:22):
Yeah, but I think it's interesting because I feel like they're giving,
because like they're, Joicent Gord-Levitt is like doing research.
Yeah.
Versus the three partners slash one husband
already know all the information is just like, oh, she likes all these things.
So use that to like manipulate her.
(20:44):
Yeah.
I don't understand what the end goal was.
Because.
In which one?
Delivers from Eva.
It was like, they, they wanted him to get her to fall in love with him and then tell her he was
moving out of town and convince her to move with him.
Yeah.
But A, they didn't know that she had been offered a job out of town and actually was going to go
(21:05):
anyway.
And B, they didn't realize that when this guy actually started to follow her, he was going to be
like, oh, I'm going to settle down here.
Yeah.
And then she's going to stay because of him.
And then like totally turns their plan on his head.
Yeah.
So then they kidnap him, lock him up.
Fake his death.
And then fake his death because one of them is a police officer.
(21:26):
They falsify a police report.
Yeah.
And it's like, excuse me, this is a huge crime.
You would be definitely fired from your job as a cop.
And also all three of you should go to jail for this.
But when he comes to like, when he shows up at his own funeral, everyone's like, oh, it's
great.
He's alive.
And it's like, wait, hang on.
Is no one going to question the death report, like the actual like death certificate you've
(21:47):
got?
Yeah.
And the police report and, you know, no.
No, because that would be too much of a drama.
And this is romantic comedy where nothing makes sense and lives don't matter.
The endings of these movies, I think, are another part that are very separate.
(22:08):
Eva sort of like moves off.
She takes the job that she was offered in Chicago.
Yeah.
And where I guess they just like live out the rest of it because clearly I can't remember
the characters names.
Right.
No, sorry.
I was going to say the antisocial sister, Kat.
(22:32):
Oh, Kat.
Yeah.
She's got college plans.
Yeah.
She's going to college.
Like she's been her dad's paying for it.
She's got it and it's on the other side of the coast.
What does that mean?
Like, you know, this is a bit that I don't like about romantic comedies and I don't like
about like high school genre movie, like set in high school movies is like you're going
(22:52):
to college.
Yeah.
Most people don't go to the same college as each other.
Like most people are like, oh, I'm a shy freshman.
I don't have any friends here.
Let's like, you know, I'm going to be friends with my dormie and like hang out with them
until I find people.
And it's like none of these relationships ever last.
It's like, you know, the Orange County is another one of the movie I made you watch
(23:17):
where he's like going to move away and his girlfriend's like, oh, so you're leaving
everybody.
And then he ends up deciding that he's going to stay and everyone's happy about it.
And like that's unrealistic because it's also a comedy with Jack Black's drug addict and
like stealing cars and stuff.
But like fantastic with who plays the mom?
(23:43):
Catherine O'Hara.
Catherine O'Hara.
Oh, O'Hara.
Thank you.
Yeah, it's a gig in a very like we're all off to college next year kind of.
Yeah.
You know.
Well, she's planning to go to college in New York.
Yeah.
So I mean, that's a place that I don't it doesn't seem like he has college plans.
No.
If he wanted to move to New York, it is a place with a lot of people and a lot of opportunities.
(24:09):
Yeah.
It's also it's not like she's moving to a middle of nowhere.
Yeah.
But it's also very weird to be like, hi, my high school boyfriend, let's also move to
the other side of the country to be together.
Yeah.
You have no plans and outside of our relationship, we have nothing like there's nothing going
on.
(24:31):
People do that though.
Yeah, I know.
Or do long distance for a while and then if it keeps working, then move in together somewhere.
Yeah, I've never heard of a story where that actually worked very well.
From real life experiences anyway, especially within my generation.
There's 17 year olds who got together because or 18 year old, I guess, who got together
(24:51):
because someone paid him to date her.
Yeah.
Like, I don't know if the relationship's going to go well.
Yeah, exactly.
I don't know if that's like a lasting long term thing.
They do seem well suited to each other.
Yeah, at least with Deliver Us From Eva, she moves, he moves and is like, hey, look,
you know, I want to be with you.
And she's like, no.
(25:11):
And then he then she changes her mind, which is, you know, fear.
But yeah, the three brothers getting away with it, what everything they wanted at the
end of the movie doesn't feel great.
Yeah, because they they're set up as villains and then they're like, and then they all stayed
with the with the women and they're getting exactly what they wanted.
(25:33):
And these ones are getting married and it's like, what do you like?
They know at this point, the three sisters know everything.
Yeah, they know that their brothers or their brothers, their partners
like paid the guy to date their sister so they wouldn't be spending as much time with
her.
And they know that they manipulated them and their sister and that they faked his death
(25:59):
and filed a fake false police report and like broke the law.
And it would have been over multiple days as well.
Yeah, because you can't just be like, oh, he's clearly dead.
Like, OK, like, here's a police report.
He's dead.
We saw him like three hours ago.
What are you talking about?
Like, you know, we've been like, oh, he's missing.
(26:22):
Oh, they found his body, you know, blah, blah, blah.
Oh, we're going to hold a funeral like in a couple of days.
Yeah.
When everything's organized.
No, no, it's just like, oh, yeah.
Well, they said he was in a car crash and then cremated immediately was the.
But he doesn't drive a car.
And this is what I said.
Yeah.
Also, like his truck, they didn't even like dispose of his truck.
They just left his truck like parked outside the warehouse.
(26:45):
They haven't changed open.
It's like a weird.
It's like they put in like a weird thriller movie into the middle of this romcom.
And then just like.
It's also the beginning as well, because it opens on them.
Yes, it opens.
It opens in the funeral with him narrating like this is how I died.
(27:05):
And you're like, what's happening?
Yeah.
You're like, because he's getting a promotion as well.
Yeah.
So wouldn't his the owner of the company also be involved?
And I'm pretty sure LoJack was a thing that people put on work vehicles back in the day.
Where you could like track them.
Right.
So when they track this apparent death inside his work.
(27:28):
Like also, like there's so much paperwork.
Like in regards to like your employee using a work vehicle and then dying in a car crash.
Yeah.
It would be an investigation into the vehicle to make sure the vehicle was safe.
Or otherwise, the owner of the company will be liable.
Yeah.
And also that like the only people at the funeral are people she invited.
(27:49):
Yeah.
So like I get that they're like, oh, he doesn't have family, but like he does have a job.
Yeah.
There are people who know him.
Also, there's all those like other women that he was dating.
Yeah, exactly.
Someone's going to show up to the funeral, right?
It doesn't make any sense.
(28:10):
And also then like that no one is really like shocked when he shows up to the funeral.
They're just kind of relieved.
But like if you thought someone was dead and you were giving a eulogy at their funeral,
and then they walked in, like you wouldn't just be like, oh, it's OK.
He's alive.
Yeah.
Like you'd be like, oh my God.
Yeah.
How did this happen?
Explain everything of like what's happened to you.
And you would also be like, hey, you guys told me he was dead and you show me a police report.
(28:33):
Yeah.
It's like, no, no, they kidnapped me and keep me chained in a frigging warehouse
to like manipulate you.
Like the atom bomb he could have dropped would bursting in.
It's just like, oh, no, no, the only person who matters in this room is like her.
And he also could have rocked up with cops to arrest the brother.
(28:54):
Exactly.
For kidnapping, which is a crime.
And when you're a police officer, kind of they don't really.
Kidnapping, fraud.
Yeah.
Faking someone's death.
Oh my God.
Theft of property.
I just don't understand.
They don't get there's no repercussions.
Yeah.
There's no legal repercussions.
(29:16):
They don't face any charges.
No one even reports anything to the police, even though the police were obviously involved
in the first place because there was a police report.
And then like, then the sisters are like, yay, we're all happy with our man.
It's like, what do you mean?
These guys are literal like psychopaths.
Like if this is what they're going to do to your sister and this is what they're going
(29:38):
to do to their friend, what are they going to do to you?
Yeah, exactly.
Get out of these relationships.
Yeah, by contrast, a much healthier relationship.
I don't think they hate about you.
I did really like the sequence where he like pays off the marching band to do something
because she's like drunk.
So she like dances on the table, which has embarrassed her.
Yeah.
So then he's like, oh, well, I'm going to make something, you know, I'm going to stop
(30:01):
everyone talking about that by doing something even more embarrassing.
Yeah.
And that's very cute and romantic.
And he's dancing.
Yeah.
Cute and romantic and he's dancing is very good.
And like the marching band playing, you know, like it's a very fun sequence.
Yeah, it's pretty cute.
Yeah.
But like again.
(30:22):
And then he does face consequences because campus police come in.
Yeah.
Or campus security come and take him away for misusing the PA system.
Which is a much lesser crime.
Yeah, than faking someone's death and falsifying police reports.
Kidnapping.
Forgot about the kidnapping.
Yeah.
And in terms of, I mean, the motive is still kind of similar.
(30:45):
And well, I mean, the thing is that in Deliverance from Eva, the guys are already in the relationships
with the sisters.
They just like don't like how involved Eva is in her sister's lives.
Yeah.
And she is a little bit controlling, but then, you know, and at the beginning, you're like,
okay, she's a little bit controlling.
(31:05):
But then you get this, like there's more development of her and you're like, oh, okay,
you know, her job is this, you know, this job where she has to be very controlling,
very strict.
Yeah.
So that makes sense.
And then also that like her, their parents died when she was 18 and she raised these
sisters and she wants them to live good lives.
And it's the things that she's doing is like encouraging her sister to study for university
(31:32):
or whatever, and supporting her other sister to like follow her dreams.
She's actually just like actively supporting them to achieve their goals, even though she's
not achieving her goal.
And the men are just like, why does she have to be involved in our lives?
It's like, it's actually a good thing if your partner like has a good relationship with
(31:56):
their family.
That's not a red flag.
That's quite positive actually.
So it's weird that they're so against it.
Whereas then in 10 Things I Hate About You, it's Cameron's character.
Cameron, Joseph Gordon-Levitt's character is the one who's like, he wants to date her
younger sister, but her younger sister can't date until she's, until Kat's dating.
(32:19):
Yeah.
But Bianca also was manipulating and using Cameron in that instance, because she doesn't
have any intention of dating Cameron at that point.
Yeah.
She wants to date Joey, the rich idiot.
Yeah.
But she knows that Cameron has more brains and also is more desperate and will go and
like actually do some shit.
And then it's a whole kind of chain reaction where Cameron and Michael get Joey to pay
(32:43):
for Patrick to date Kat, because they don't have the money.
And they reckon, you know, he also wants to date her, so let's do it this way.
And, you know, they kind of bank on the fact that she'll realize that he's an idiot.
Joey's an idiot.
Yeah, that Joey's an idiot, which she does eventually.
It takes her a bit longer, but she does realize there are moments where like, because Bianca
(33:07):
is kind of set up to be a little bit stupid.
And then when he's being more stupid, you can kind of see like, like when he shows
it the pictures that are almost identical, it's like, which one do you think is better?
Yeah.
His entire character is just a backward rich guy mess.
Yeah.
And...
Absolute narcissist.
Yeah.
And also he only wants to date her because he has a bet going with his friends that he
(33:31):
can take her virginity.
Yeah.
Like he took her sister's virginity, which is a big twist that's kind of dropped later
on in the movie.
Yeah.
At which point Bianca goes out and punches him multiple times, which is great.
Yeah.
Also Gabrielle Union is her shitty friend in that, and then she's Eva in the other one.
(33:52):
I forgot to mention that at the beginning.
Yeah.
That's very funny that I was, because we watched obviously the worst lower rated movie first.
Yes.
We watched Deliver Us from Eva first and then Nick hadn't seen 10 Things I Hate About You.
Yeah.
All I knew was like a high school movie and I had Heath Ledger in it and the title just...
Gave an appeal to me.
Yeah.
(34:12):
Yeah. Fair. But yeah, so you were surprised to see Gabrielle Union when she appeared as
Bianca's best friend. Who is a shitty friend by the way?
Yeah.
Okay. She just kind of ditches her as soon as...
And she's also sort of like into Joey as well and is sort of like trying to get her friend
out of the way so she can date him.
Mm.
(34:33):
And then like even though she knows that he was like, she's like, she's like, she's like,
oh, he came and picked me up and brought me to prom. Did you think you were the only sophomore
here?
Yeah.
And it's like, okay, he literally went to pick up Bianca and when she wasn't there he was
like, oh, I'm going to pick up her shitty friend instead. And also she knows that he had a
(34:57):
bet that he was going to take Bianca's virginity.
Yeah.
So like, if that's, if you know that about someone, why would you be like, yeah, I'll
date you? And then you're like, oh, I'm going to pick up Bianca's virginity. And then you're
like, if you know someone, why would you be like, yeah, I'll date you?
Yeah.
Blah.
Blah.
Blah.
And then.
Blah.
But anyway, I think Cameron, though it is, it is like a infatuation thing because Cameron
(35:19):
doesn't know Bianca when he starts this whole thing.
Yeah, because he's new to Skoll.
He just like sees her and is like, oh my God, you know, she's so innocent and beautiful
and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, okay, whatever. But he does get to, like he actually
makes the effort to get to know her, which Joey doesn't do.
Yeah, yeah.
And she gets to know him and then starts to like him. But it's, yeah, a little bit, a
(35:42):
little bit more. It feels more like genuine than and less manipulative overall. I mean,
there is obviously manipulation in both. But in 10 Things I Hate About You, it feels slightly
more genuine intent wise anyway.
Yeah.
Than in Delivers from Riva.
The food was appalling.
(36:03):
The food was appalling?
I just, it just stuck with me. They were like room temperature nachos with like cheese was
olives and jalapenos on them.
The cafeteria food at the school.
Yeah. And they like, they're just shoveling slop onto their plates and not like commenting
on it at all. And they're just like, because obviously the scene's not about it. It's the
(36:26):
scenes like they're having a conversation about the plans and stuff. It was just like,
yeah, I was just staring at Heathly's plate the entire time being like, what the hell is
that pink oozing shit that's like on his plate? It looked like terrible white people Asian
food.
Okay.
Like we just slice onions, capsicums and pineapple with like chicken and noodles.
(36:51):
That's what it looked like. But then it had mashed potatoes. It was very confusing.
Just a weird mix of foods.
Yeah.
That were a family.
Red dye number 40.
Yeah.
You know, you're just stuck with me for some weird reason.
They were separated as well. The olives were on one side and the jalapenos on the other.
(37:17):
They're not under a heat lamp or anything. They're just like room temperature.
Yeah. Just sitting out on a shelf for the kids to pick up.
Yeah. Vile.
You want to move into some trivia? Because I'm pretty much sure it's still held up on
now. I don't really have any trivia for a delivery from Eva. The only thing I took down
was that at the end when they ride off in the sunset, because they do on a white horse,
(37:41):
you get to see like this Chicago skyline, but it was filmed in Los Angeles. So it's
just like super imposed over downtown LA. For 10 things I hate about you, first of all,
it was Heath Ledger's first film in America. The accent, because you were talking about
it. So apparently people were concerned about Heath Ledger's accent and keeping the Australian
(38:05):
accent and the director was like, no, it makes him feel dangerous and sexy. Let him be
ostracised. So I think they just wrote it in that they were like, yeah, yeah, he lived
in Australia for 10 years before moving to the States. We already mentioned the
entire film shot in real locations. There's no sets used. Joseph Gordon-Levitt, iconically
(38:28):
in the movie, said he's going to tutor Bianca in French and then has to learn French to
do it. Joseph Gordon-Levitt is fluent in French and was at the time of filming as well. So
he had to like pretend to be bad at French, which is great. The screenwriters for this
are Karen McCullough and Kristen Smith. This was their first screenplay and they would
(38:49):
go on to write Legally Blonde after this, which is another great movie. And The House
Bunny, which is I think the lesser of the three, but still a fun movie, which I think
is one of Emma Stone's first films as well. The scene at the end where Kat reads her 10
(39:09):
Things I Hate About You poem, they only did one take. She was not supposed to cry.
She just got actually emotional reading it and teared up and cried while reading the
poem. And they were like, yeah, I don't think we need to do another take on this. That was
(39:33):
perfect. And yeah, I had mentioned the school. The school is located in Tacoma, Washington,
and it was built as a chateau-style railroad. Oh, it was a railroad station hotel is what
it was built as. Yeah, so railroad station hotel. And then it had a lot of fire damage
in a fire and was renovated into a high school. And also, so Julia Stiles after this went
(39:57):
on to be in a dance movie called Save the Last Dance, which she landed the lead role
to after the table dancing scene and The Things I Hate About You. They were like, yeah, that's
her. That's her lead. And I think that's all the trivia I took down. That movie did really
(40:17):
well, actually. Which one? The Things I Hate About You? No. Oh, Delivers from Eva. No,
Save the Last Dance. Oh, Save the Last Dance. It cost 13 million and made 131. Yeah, it's
a decent one. I've only seen it once and it was a while ago. I do like Julia Stiles. She's
been in a few interesting things, I feel like. Yeah, I think the cast in The Things I Hate
(40:45):
About You was really good. Yeah, but it was like a sort of bottled lightning because you've
got so much potential in there. The thing that we haven't mentioned, the music in it
is very 90s. Very 90s where every scene is just like bombarding you with some hit at
(41:08):
the time. Maybe not top five, but it was definitely top 40. It's such a 90s movie trope though
to have those popular music just blaring over different things. Delivers from Eva also does
it a little bit. It's got 2000 music in just weird places in it. I feel like in Delivers
(41:33):
from Eva it's mainly diegetic. It's in-universe, they're listening to it, except for the opening
sequence which is stolen from My Best Friend's Wedding where it's just in a sound stage,
just pure background color and people singing, which is a weird opening to that particular
movie I think. Definitely tonally it was weird. Yeah, it didn't really match the rest of the
(42:01):
movie. Yeah, I don't know, is there anything else you want to say about these? Did you
enjoy them as a non-Ramkham person? 10 Things I Hate About You was an enjoyable movie that
I would watch again at some point. The other movie unfortunately was disappointing, lackluster,
(42:22):
had a lot of potential and just wasn't used because of weird choices. Yeah, I agree with
you. Again, I do think the cast is actually decent. Even with Lady's Love, Call James,
there's nothing wrong with the acting. The dialogue was squared and unnatural and I just
(42:45):
feel like there were... You mentioned the fact that it was written by men. That entire
sequence in the salon is so bizarre when the guy comes in and is like, I gotta leave because
otherwise all you do is rag on men the entire time. Yeah, it's weird. And it's like, who
(43:10):
is this funny for? I feel like it was written by particularly insecure men. I don't know
anything about the guys who wrote it so I don't want to make a call on them. It reeked
of weird toxic masculinity. Also, the brothers in it and the tone of the film, the brothers
are like this but also it's seen as acceptable. They're very sexist. They're also racist.
(43:35):
One of them is like an impersonation of a Chinese person at one point or something.
It's a really weird racial stereotype thing. They're quite homophobic. There is mention
of queerness in both movies in 10 Days I Hate About You. It's very subtly that when
Cameron is talking to Bianca and trying to gauge politely if a cat might actually be
(44:01):
a lesbian and that's why she's not dating any men, Bianca is like, oh, you mean is she
a friend of Katie Lang? Or is she a fan of Katie Lang? And you're like, okay. And then
she's like, no, she's got a picture of Jared Leto. Yeah, which is also super weird. But
also it doesn't sound like they would have a problem if she was gay. They just would
(44:24):
be like, oh shit, well, we gotta change tactics here. We can't get her to date this guy. Whereas
in Deliveries from Eva, they're all kind of afraid of being seen as gay. And then also
there is one gay character in it, but it's revealed in a weirdly in a post credit scene.
They have a post credit scene specifically to reveal that the one gay character is only
(44:46):
pretending to be gay so he can work at a hair salon. Which is bizarre. And they try to say
that straight men are persecuted and can't get a job because they're straight. So you
have to pretend to be gay to get a job. So that's weird. And then they're also ableist.
They use ableist language. But I think that slur for mentally disabled people appears
(45:09):
in both movies. So it is a little bit just a sign of that time. And I'm glad that we
kind of moved on from that. But yeah, I thought it was weird that like they're sexist, homophobic,
racist and ableist. And these are the guys who are supposed to kind of side with, I guess.
Yeah. Yeah. So it's strange. Anyway, on that note, if you want to join our discord, you'll
(45:35):
be able to find it below in the show notes. And if you want to see everywhere where they're
available, maybe you've overheard this somewhere and you're like, oh, where where can I go to
find more? It takes to dot co dot nz is a website made by a lovely Lisa. And you can find all
the information you need right there, including joining our mailing list and our links to
(46:01):
blue sky as well as social media platforms. And to our YouTube where we do shorts that
aren't related to the podcast. And if you've enjoyed anything or you've not enjoyed it,
let us know and also share like and share because it really does help when you know,
we can't pay. It's very expensive when you're having an international audience to try and
(46:24):
advertise places. And it is really reliant on you the listener to advertise for us because
otherwise if you enjoyed it or you didn't enjoy it, maybe just be like, hey, listen, this garbage,
at least we'll get lessons. And happy Valentine's Day. Oh, yeah. Valentine's,
St. Valentine. He died on the heart for our sins. Yeah, he died on his heart. His heart is
(46:52):
available to see in a church in Dublin. So if you're in Dublin, go look at us.
You can go look at St. Valentine's. They only show it to you on Valentine's Day.
Nothing makes couples hornier than seeing a dead guy's heart at a church.
Absolutely. Go for it. All right. Bye bye. Bye.
Music
(00:18):
Hi everyone, I'm Lisa.
And I'm Nick.
And you're listening to It Takes Two, the podcast where two people take two movies with the same plot or premise, and watch and discuss them.
It is the Valentine's era coming up for February's episode.
So in this episode, we're covering off two movies based on William Shakespeare's Taming of the Shrew,
(00:38):
1999's 10 Things I Hate About You, and 2003's Delivering Us from Eva.
Deliver Us from Eva.
Deliver Us from Eva.
You got closer that time.
Yeah, because last, when we tried this before, I said Surviving Eva, like twice.
Yeah, so these are both modern adaptations, like modern at the time, over 20 years old now, adaptations of The Taming of the Shrew.
(01:07):
Yeah, where do you want to start with these?
I think the tone difference of these movies is very different.
You've got one that is a very, it's kind of a dead genre now because it doesn't seem to be like the big blockbuster hits of like the high school,
American high school sort of genre of being like everybody's super weird and it's prom and all that garbage that goes along with that genre of movie.
(01:39):
Like Carrie that we did last time.
Yeah, exactly.
And then you get a very different tone of like an actual family and family dynamics in the 2003 version,
which comes across with a very strong African-American cast.
But at the same time, I just don't feel like it was necessary.
(02:03):
And I go back to Death at a Funeral, which was they had the weird Americanization, which had a very, very, very strong African-American cast, except for James Morrison.
I was going to say Alan Tudyk.
(02:25):
No, that's the other one.
Yeah, I know.
No, I was going to say Tyrion Lannister.
Oh, Peter Dinklage.
Peter Dinklage who started both of them.
Why can I not remember his name?
You know, it's just it's very different.
Like you get that very American high school angsty, like overtone.
(02:48):
And then you get a very suave African-American thing.
And the only weird part about it was LL Cool J starring in it.
I don't think he was.
Was he popular at the time?
No, was LL Cool J ever popular?
I don't know.
I've seen him in very few movies where he's actually taken the lead.
And I think this is one of them.
(03:10):
Yeah, I see where you're coming from.
I don't understand.
I feel like they could have made a different movie.
I feel like there is no reason to make a second modern adaptation of The Taming of the Shrew within five years of Ten Things I Hate About You, which was a very popular, like it's considered like a rom-com classic.
Yeah. You know, and it is a really like to this day, it's a really enjoyable movie.
(03:34):
I don't think Deliverance from Eva was as enjoyable.
Like, I don't think I'll watch that again, whereas I probably will watch Ten Things I Hate About You again.
I don't know if you'll watch either again, because you're not as much of a rom-com person.
But yeah, I feel like they could have just gone with a totally different story.
They also like they didn't.
It's like very loosely based on Taming of the Shrew, I feel like, The Deliverance from Eva.
(03:56):
Yeah.
So they could have just like done a different story and not based on that.
There was a lot of potential, I think, in that movie to be something outstanding.
And, you know, because you're talking about family and you're talking like because in that adaptation, you know, just talking about four sisters, they lost their parents.
(04:26):
They have like conjoined inheritance accounts.
They live in the house together.
And it is basically three young men trying to separate the family to like.
And I just found it very confusing.
Yeah, it's really weird, because like at the beginning, I was like, oh, the sisters all have like kind of annoying partners.
(04:49):
And by the end, you're like, these are horrible people and they should not stay with them.
But then they all do. And that baffles me.
So the whole premise is that for both these movies is they want to spend time with these women who have antisocial sisters or difficult sister.
(05:13):
And they pay some other person to try and run interference.
And that's how you get LL Cool J's character involved, who's like this player player.
You know, he's real smart. He talks up, you know, he ends up on a date with some lady when they bump into him and he like somebody else.
He's dating comes along and he's just like, you know, ladies, don't be mad at me.
(05:36):
Don't be mad at each other. Be mad at me.
You know, I'm the ones, you know, like, you know, that steps out and they're like, oh, we should pay this guy five thousand dollars to like.
Like psychologically torture the sister that psychologically tortures us.
Yeah, that is, by the way, the psychological torture element of it is closer to the Shakespeare.
(06:00):
Because in the actual timing of the show, the guy that they get to it's that the younger sister can't get married until the older sister is married.
And the guy they get to marry her then like tortures her till she is like basically an obedient slave.
And then he wins like a prize for having the most obedient wife.
It's it's really fucked up.
(06:21):
It's fifteen hundred comedy.
So I'm glad that that's not how either these go.
But yeah, I feel like Ten Things I Heard About You is generally closer to the Shakespeare than the rest from Eva.
But in that aspect, the kind of manipulation.
It's a lot more rounded of a movie.
You get a little bit more character development with even the background characters and side characters.
(06:45):
There's you know, I know I don't like it, but the the high school setting kind of makes this movie work better.
You know, this modern adaptation of people living in the suburbs and just trying to survive day to day.
And there's this weird the men in the relationship are awful.
(07:09):
Yeah, versus this concept of an overprotective father protecting two daughters.
We never see a mother in this situation.
So could she die?
It's kind of ambiguous.
Yeah, because what what they say is that she's not going to have the conversation about the pearls and their mother's pearls.
(07:30):
And she says, well, she's not going to come back for them.
Yeah. So it definitely feels like he's a single dad raising two daughters.
He also is a doctor and works predominantly and one of his quotes from the movie is Up to My Elbows in Proscenta.
Yeah. Yeah. So he does deliver babies.
I guess, Obscani, obstetrician.
Yeah. I don't know. I don't know enough about baby delivery.
(07:53):
Yeah. And is terrified that his daughters are going to get teen pregnant.
Yeah. Because that's predominantly who he's working with in these birthing suites.
I assume that's not really predominantly who he's working with, but he does see them.
Yeah. He mentioned something about like a 15 year old crack.
Yeah, that does sound though like he's like hamming it up for his kids to try and scare them straight.
(08:18):
I love like a very iconic thing in Ten Things I Had About You is the belly.
Where like before his daughter goes out on a date, he makes her wear like a pregnant belly.
And it's got like, it's called like the empathy belly.
I assume it's for like, you know, fathers to be to wear and be like, oh, okay, this is what it feels like.
Yeah. Carrying a tiny person inside you.
(08:40):
But I love that he does before his daughters go out on a date, he's like, you got to wear the belly.
Do I need this?
And every time someone tries to kiss you, think about this.
It's, yeah, it's a very interesting like cast.
Heath Ledger, obviously being one of the main characters in this.
(09:03):
It's great to see Heath being able to actually use his real voice and not having to put an American tone.
Yeah. He was a very young and handsome, talented actor.
And it's a shame that he was taken by drug abuse and drug addiction.
And it's just, yeah, it plays together really well.
None of the actors come off as annoying or unbelievable.
(09:30):
Yeah, I just think it's much more better rounded movie, which is a shame because I think they had potential and deliverance from Eva.
And I just think they ruined it by toxic masculinity and toxic relationships where it's like, oh, no, it's not us.
That's the problem. The men is clearly the sister who's alone and protective because she was the parental figure when they were very young.
(09:59):
Yeah, because she was 18 as the oldest of them.
And she gave up her dream career to take up two jobs to be able to afford to look after her three younger sisters.
And then the sisters partners are annoyed that they're influenced by their sister who raised them.
Can I say something controversial?
(10:21):
It's a platform for you to do that.
I think people can complain to me or write in the comments or whatever.
But I think not the only factor, but a key factor in why 10 Things I Hate About You is more well rounded in the sense that you're describing than delivers from Eva is that 10 Things I Hate About You was written by women.
(10:48):
And to the first read, it was written by men.
Right.
Not to say men are bad writers, not to say men can't write rom-coms because they absolutely can.
But it explains why when the movie is predominantly about this core group of four sisters, the people writing it don't have the experience to be like, this is what a group of four sisters are actually like.
(11:10):
And instead are like, this is why four sisters are annoying to men.
Yeah.
Whereas 10 Things I Hate About You is largely, even though we're kind of introduced to a lot of the concepts through Cameron, who is Joseph Gordon-Levitt's character.
Baby. Baby Livett.
It is predominantly from the viewpoint of the women and their relationship with each other and their relationship with the people around them.
(11:35):
Because I think they are the only ones you actually see a home life of.
Yeah.
Heath's character, Levitt's character, their friend who's forgettable and I can't remember the actor's name.
That's very, very long, if I remember correctly.
Is this Michael?
(11:55):
Yeah, David. David Cromhoites.
I'm going to go with that.
Right.
Yeah.
You never see any of their background of like where they're raised from.
And I know that's not like the like everything about the high school teen drama genre annoys the hell of me because we've all been.
(12:17):
Well, I'm assuming you're over an age where you're listening to this podcast that you've been in that sort of situation and realize how folly all of these stereotypes of like people sitting on the quad and giant mass groups.
All just like mulling around while the main characters walk through and have like a very confidential conversation.
(12:39):
Yeah.
And no one interacts with anybody except like the weird little groups they're sitting in.
Yeah, I feel that's not what my experience of school is like.
I don't think it's anybody's.
I mean, it happens so often in American movies that you have to wonder at least in that time period is what American schools are like because you've got clueless mean girls 10 things they hate about you.
(12:59):
What you did last summer scream.
Yeah, they're all in that same.
They all have that same kind of like everyone has their clicks at this school.
But also, here's the thing.
Here's the difference between I certainly where I went to school and I think where you went to school versus American schools.
I had 30 people in my class and 120 people my whole year, and that was considered large.
(13:24):
Americans have 500 plus people in their year.
Yeah.
Like, that's a ridiculous amount of people.
So you can kind of understand how they end up being broken into like groups and not actually intermingling with everyone on the year.
The thing that annoys me is that the clicks that they have in these movies are all like one thing.
Yeah.
Like, it's like, oh, here's the stoners.
(13:45):
They all have dreadlocks.
They all wear like rustifying clothing style.
Here's the preachy rich kids.
Here's like the goth, the nerds.
Like, it's very down to like, you know, let's make like caricatures of like actual humans.
Yeah. And that's why like, I mean, that's what they do in Mean Girls as well.
(14:07):
And the kind of one of the central conflicts in it is that she actually, while she is pretty unpopular, she also is a nerd and can join like the mathletes or whatever it is.
And, you know, and her friends outside of the Mean Girls clique are, you know, two people who don't really fit.
I mean, just one of these things like they might fit multiple and they might fit none, which is really how most people are.
(14:33):
It's also interesting that two of the main characters in it are like not exchange students, but they're like new to the school.
Heath Ledger's characters like Bean, like Bean moves around a lot and he goes to different schools.
And then Gordon Livett's dad is in the military.
So he's an army brat and they keep moving to schools and that's why.
I think Heath Ledger's one was that he has been in that school for a while, but he was gone for a year.
(14:56):
That's right. Yeah.
So he's been gone for a year.
So people have all these rumors about him.
Rumors about him like, should you be drinking alcohol when you don't have a liver?
Yeah.
So he's like anti-social, doesn't really hang out with or like share his personal life with anyone.
And he's been disappeared for a year and he seems like, you know, this cool, unachievable guy.
(15:17):
I don't know if he's cool.
I think to the guys in the movie.
Yeah. He smokes in class, he pulls out a switchblade and stabs a frog in the frog death section thing,
which has seemed to be in every high school movie.
Like I did two types of science thing.
I don't remember taking anything apart.
(15:38):
We did a cow's heart.
Oh, I remember like looking at organs, but it's not like each person has issued a frog.
We had to bring in our own cow's heart and cut it up.
Okay. What was that like going to your mum?
Hey, I need a cow's heart.
She just went to the butcher and got it.
(15:59):
It was very normal.
Like every class did it.
That's bizarre.
Like where did they get the frogs from?
Yeah, the frogs, I don't know.
But that seems to be again, a thing that's in a lot of American movies.
It's even in like, it's in Starship Troopers as well.
Like, they're not taking a frog apart.
It's in like The Simpsons, right?
I would love for any of our American listeners to please reach out to us and let us know.
(16:24):
Like, did you take frogs apart?
Did you dissect live frogs in school?
Like, is this a thing?
Was your school weird and clicky like it is in the movie?
Like we would love to know.
Did you have archery at the same time as marching?
Do you have someone playing golf onto your pitch that people are playing soccer on?
(16:45):
Don't get me wrong.
I know from looking at the notes, it was filmed in multiple locations in multiple states.
It's a real school that they filmed in.
That's insane.
Like gorgeous grounds, gorgeous buildings.
None of the people there were actual students in the school.
I'm saying like gorgeous grounds, gorgeous building.
Like the aesthetics of that alone is ridiculous.
(17:06):
Yeah, I think if I remember correctly, they didn't once film on a set.
Yeah, the entire film was shot on location.
But yeah, that was a real school.
It was built as a railway station, if I remember correctly.
It does scream railway station.
And then there was a fire, so it never actually became a railway station.
And then they turned it into a school instead.
Of course, downgrading from public transport to public education.
(17:30):
I think the marching band are actual students, but not from that school,
because that school didn't actually have a marching band.
So they got a marching band from a different school.
I think some of them might be from that school,
but they had to teach them how to march because they just were like the band.
They didn't have a marching band.
Anyway, it's a real school.
(17:50):
But I don't know if the students did what the students in the movie do.
Yeah, the deliverance from Eva had very like, I was going to say hygienic,
but that's not really the...
She is a health inspector.
So kind of, I think that's where the word crept into my brain from.
(18:11):
Yeah.
Very sterile setting.
It's either in a house or in a bar.
There's very few scenes that are like outside of those places.
You know, you get a few kitchen scenes where he's delivering meat,
which apparently is his job, and he only needs $5,000 to buy a house.
And also he like seems to only deliver meat to places on the same day she's inspecting them.
(18:35):
Yeah.
Which is a bit strange.
Yeah, it's a lot less flavorsome in just like eating the scenery.
You get a big party, the houses, the school,
you know, they're out and about doing weird stuff.
(18:56):
Like he escapes from detention because she flashes the gym coach.
And then they're automatically jump to scene, no dialogue between the two of them,
because, you know, he immediately thanks her for getting them out of detention.
While they're paddling boats in the middle of the lake on paddle boats.
And then they go play paintball, but it's not paintball.
(19:17):
It's like paint water balloons.
It's like gun free paintball.
Yeah.
And then make out and hey, and then they're angry at each other again.
It's very, will they, won't they?
But we both know they will kind of like, why are you teasing it out?
Yeah, I think in both, obviously in both movies,
(19:38):
the guy is originally paid to go out with her
and then kind of sees how difficult she is.
And it actually, he actually likes it.
Like in both cases, he's kind of amused by how difficult she is with people.
Because in Delivers from Eva, while he's delivering meat, he sees her tear down a guy
as a health inspector and he's just like, heck yeah.
And in 10 Things I Hate About You, it's that she reverses into Joey's car.
(20:01):
And he's just like, he's like, yes, the chaos.
And, you know, and so in both cases, it's kind of like these guys,
you know, if these couples had gotten together organically,
you know, if they had met organically, they possibly would have ended up together anyway.
Yeah.
Especially Delivers from Eva, she like instantly takes a liking to him.
(20:22):
Yeah, but I think it's interesting because I feel like they're giving,
because like they're, Joicent Gord-Levitt is like doing research.
Yeah.
Versus the three partners slash one husband
already know all the information is just like, oh, she likes all these things.
So use that to like manipulate her.
(20:44):
Yeah.
I don't understand what the end goal was.
Because.
In which one?
Delivers from Eva.
It was like, they, they wanted him to get her to fall in love with him and then tell her he was
moving out of town and convince her to move with him.
Yeah.
But A, they didn't know that she had been offered a job out of town and actually was going to go
(21:05):
anyway.
And B, they didn't realize that when this guy actually started to follow her, he was going to be
like, oh, I'm going to settle down here.
Yeah.
And then she's going to stay because of him.
And then like totally turns their plan on his head.
Yeah.
So then they kidnap him, lock him up.
Fake his death.
And then fake his death because one of them is a police officer.
(21:26):
They falsify a police report.
Yeah.
And it's like, excuse me, this is a huge crime.
You would be definitely fired from your job as a cop.
And also all three of you should go to jail for this.
But when he comes to like, when he shows up at his own funeral, everyone's like, oh, it's
great.
He's alive.
And it's like, wait, hang on.
Is no one going to question the death report, like the actual like death certificate you've
(21:47):
got?
Yeah.
And the police report and, you know, no.
No, because that would be too much of a drama.
And this is romantic comedy where nothing makes sense and lives don't matter.
The endings of these movies, I think, are another part that are very separate.
(22:08):
Eva sort of like moves off.
She takes the job that she was offered in Chicago.
Yeah.
And where I guess they just like live out the rest of it because clearly I can't remember
the characters names.
Right.
No, sorry.
I was going to say the antisocial sister, Kat.
(22:32):
Oh, Kat.
Yeah.
She's got college plans.
Yeah.
She's going to college.
Like she's been her dad's paying for it.
She's got it and it's on the other side of the coast.
What does that mean?
Like, you know, this is a bit that I don't like about romantic comedies and I don't like
about like high school genre movie, like set in high school movies is like you're going
(22:52):
to college.
Yeah.
Most people don't go to the same college as each other.
Like most people are like, oh, I'm a shy freshman.
I don't have any friends here.
Let's like, you know, I'm going to be friends with my dormie and like hang out with them
until I find people.
And it's like none of these relationships ever last.
It's like, you know, the Orange County is another one of the movie I made you watch
(23:17):
where he's like going to move away and his girlfriend's like, oh, so you're leaving
everybody.
And then he ends up deciding that he's going to stay and everyone's happy about it.
And like that's unrealistic because it's also a comedy with Jack Black's drug addict and
like stealing cars and stuff.
But like fantastic with who plays the mom?
(23:43):
Catherine O'Hara.
Catherine O'Hara.
Oh, O'Hara.
Thank you.
Yeah, it's a gig in a very like we're all off to college next year kind of.
Yeah.
You know.
Well, she's planning to go to college in New York.
Yeah.
So I mean, that's a place that I don't it doesn't seem like he has college plans.
No.
If he wanted to move to New York, it is a place with a lot of people and a lot of opportunities.
(24:09):
Yeah.
It's also it's not like she's moving to a middle of nowhere.
Yeah.
But it's also very weird to be like, hi, my high school boyfriend, let's also move to
the other side of the country to be together.
Yeah.
You have no plans and outside of our relationship, we have nothing like there's nothing going
on.
(24:31):
People do that though.
Yeah, I know.
Or do long distance for a while and then if it keeps working, then move in together somewhere.
Yeah, I've never heard of a story where that actually worked very well.
From real life experiences anyway, especially within my generation.
There's 17 year olds who got together because or 18 year old, I guess, who got together
(24:51):
because someone paid him to date her.
Yeah.
Like, I don't know if the relationship's going to go well.
Yeah, exactly.
I don't know if that's like a lasting long term thing.
They do seem well suited to each other.
Yeah, at least with Deliver Us From Eva, she moves, he moves and is like, hey, look,
you know, I want to be with you.
And she's like, no.
(25:11):
And then he then she changes her mind, which is, you know, fear.
But yeah, the three brothers getting away with it, what everything they wanted at the
end of the movie doesn't feel great.
Yeah, because they they're set up as villains and then they're like, and then they all stayed
with the with the women and they're getting exactly what they wanted.
(25:33):
And these ones are getting married and it's like, what do you like?
They know at this point, the three sisters know everything.
Yeah, they know that their brothers or their brothers, their partners
like paid the guy to date their sister so they wouldn't be spending as much time with
her.
And they know that they manipulated them and their sister and that they faked his death
(25:59):
and filed a fake false police report and like broke the law.
And it would have been over multiple days as well.
Yeah, because you can't just be like, oh, he's clearly dead.
Like, OK, like, here's a police report.
He's dead.
We saw him like three hours ago.
What are you talking about?
Like, you know, we've been like, oh, he's missing.
(26:22):
Oh, they found his body, you know, blah, blah, blah.
Oh, we're going to hold a funeral like in a couple of days.
Yeah.
When everything's organized.
No, no, it's just like, oh, yeah.
Well, they said he was in a car crash and then cremated immediately was the.
But he doesn't drive a car.
And this is what I said.
Yeah.
Also, like his truck, they didn't even like dispose of his truck.
They just left his truck like parked outside the warehouse.
(26:45):
They haven't changed open.
It's like a weird.
It's like they put in like a weird thriller movie into the middle of this romcom.
And then just like.
It's also the beginning as well, because it opens on them.
Yes, it opens.
It opens in the funeral with him narrating like this is how I died.
(27:05):
And you're like, what's happening?
Yeah.
You're like, because he's getting a promotion as well.
Yeah.
So wouldn't his the owner of the company also be involved?
And I'm pretty sure LoJack was a thing that people put on work vehicles back in the day.
Where you could like track them.
Right.
So when they track this apparent death inside his work.
(27:28):
Like also, like there's so much paperwork.
Like in regards to like your employee using a work vehicle and then dying in a car crash.
Yeah.
It would be an investigation into the vehicle to make sure the vehicle was safe.
Or otherwise, the owner of the company will be liable.
Yeah.
And also that like the only people at the funeral are people she invited.
(27:49):
Yeah.
So like I get that they're like, oh, he doesn't have family, but like he does have a job.
Yeah.
There are people who know him.
Also, there's all those like other women that he was dating.
Yeah, exactly.
Someone's going to show up to the funeral, right?
It doesn't make any sense.
(28:10):
And also then like that no one is really like shocked when he shows up to the funeral.
They're just kind of relieved.
But like if you thought someone was dead and you were giving a eulogy at their funeral,
and then they walked in, like you wouldn't just be like, oh, it's OK.
He's alive.
Yeah.
Like you'd be like, oh my God.
Yeah.
How did this happen?
Explain everything of like what's happened to you.
And you would also be like, hey, you guys told me he was dead and you show me a police report.
(28:33):
Yeah.
It's like, no, no, they kidnapped me and keep me chained in a frigging warehouse
to like manipulate you.
Like the atom bomb he could have dropped would bursting in.
It's just like, oh, no, no, the only person who matters in this room is like her.
And he also could have rocked up with cops to arrest the brother.
(28:54):
Exactly.
For kidnapping, which is a crime.
And when you're a police officer, kind of they don't really.
Kidnapping, fraud.
Yeah.
Faking someone's death.
Oh my God.
Theft of property.
I just don't understand.
They don't get there's no repercussions.
Yeah.
There's no legal repercussions.
(29:16):
They don't face any charges.
No one even reports anything to the police, even though the police were obviously involved
in the first place because there was a police report.
And then like, then the sisters are like, yay, we're all happy with our man.
It's like, what do you mean?
These guys are literal like psychopaths.
Like if this is what they're going to do to your sister and this is what they're going
(29:38):
to do to their friend, what are they going to do to you?
Yeah, exactly.
Get out of these relationships.
Yeah, by contrast, a much healthier relationship.
I don't think they hate about you.
I did really like the sequence where he like pays off the marching band to do something
because she's like drunk.
So she like dances on the table, which has embarrassed her.
Yeah.
So then he's like, oh, well, I'm going to make something, you know, I'm going to stop
(30:01):
everyone talking about that by doing something even more embarrassing.
Yeah.
And that's very cute and romantic.
And he's dancing.
Yeah.
Cute and romantic and he's dancing is very good.
And like the marching band playing, you know, like it's a very fun sequence.
Yeah, it's pretty cute.
Yeah.
But like again.
(30:22):
And then he does face consequences because campus police come in.
Yeah.
Or campus security come and take him away for misusing the PA system.
Which is a much lesser crime.
Yeah, than faking someone's death and falsifying police reports.
Kidnapping.
Forgot about the kidnapping.
Yeah.
And in terms of, I mean, the motive is still kind of similar.
(30:45):
And well, I mean, the thing is that in Deliverance from Eva, the guys are already in the relationships
with the sisters.
They just like don't like how involved Eva is in her sister's lives.
Yeah.
And she is a little bit controlling, but then, you know, and at the beginning, you're like,
okay, she's a little bit controlling.
(31:05):
But then you get this, like there's more development of her and you're like, oh, okay,
you know, her job is this, you know, this job where she has to be very controlling,
very strict.
Yeah.
So that makes sense.
And then also that like her, their parents died when she was 18 and she raised these
sisters and she wants them to live good lives.
And it's the things that she's doing is like encouraging her sister to study for university
(31:32):
or whatever, and supporting her other sister to like follow her dreams.
She's actually just like actively supporting them to achieve their goals, even though she's
not achieving her goal.
And the men are just like, why does she have to be involved in our lives?
It's like, it's actually a good thing if your partner like has a good relationship with
(31:56):
their family.
That's not a red flag.
That's quite positive actually.
So it's weird that they're so against it.
Whereas then in 10 Things I Hate About You, it's Cameron's character.
Cameron, Joseph Gordon-Levitt's character is the one who's like, he wants to date her
younger sister, but her younger sister can't date until she's, until Kat's dating.
(32:19):
Yeah.
But Bianca also was manipulating and using Cameron in that instance, because she doesn't
have any intention of dating Cameron at that point.
Yeah.
She wants to date Joey, the rich idiot.
Yeah.
But she knows that Cameron has more brains and also is more desperate and will go and
like actually do some shit.
And then it's a whole kind of chain reaction where Cameron and Michael get Joey to pay
(32:43):
for Patrick to date Kat, because they don't have the money.
And they reckon, you know, he also wants to date her, so let's do it this way.
And, you know, they kind of bank on the fact that she'll realize that he's an idiot.
Joey's an idiot.
Yeah, that Joey's an idiot, which she does eventually.
It takes her a bit longer, but she does realize there are moments where like, because Bianca
(33:07):
is kind of set up to be a little bit stupid.
And then when he's being more stupid, you can kind of see like, like when he shows
it the pictures that are almost identical, it's like, which one do you think is better?
Yeah.
His entire character is just a backward rich guy mess.
Yeah.
And...
Absolute narcissist.
Yeah.
And also he only wants to date her because he has a bet going with his friends that he
(33:31):
can take her virginity.
Yeah.
Like he took her sister's virginity, which is a big twist that's kind of dropped later
on in the movie.
Yeah.
At which point Bianca goes out and punches him multiple times, which is great.
Yeah.
Also Gabrielle Union is her shitty friend in that, and then she's Eva in the other one.
(33:52):
I forgot to mention that at the beginning.
Yeah.
That's very funny that I was, because we watched obviously the worst lower rated movie first.
Yes.
We watched Deliver Us from Eva first and then Nick hadn't seen 10 Things I Hate About You.
Yeah.
All I knew was like a high school movie and I had Heath Ledger in it and the title just...
Gave an appeal to me.
Yeah.
(34:12):
Yeah. Fair. But yeah, so you were surprised to see Gabrielle Union when she appeared as
Bianca's best friend. Who is a shitty friend by the way?
Yeah.
Okay. She just kind of ditches her as soon as...
And she's also sort of like into Joey as well and is sort of like trying to get her friend
out of the way so she can date him.
Mm.
(34:33):
And then like even though she knows that he was like, she's like, she's like, she's like,
oh, he came and picked me up and brought me to prom. Did you think you were the only sophomore
here?
Yeah.
And it's like, okay, he literally went to pick up Bianca and when she wasn't there he was
like, oh, I'm going to pick up her shitty friend instead. And also she knows that he had a
(34:57):
bet that he was going to take Bianca's virginity.
Yeah.
So like, if that's, if you know that about someone, why would you be like, yeah, I'll
date you? And then you're like, oh, I'm going to pick up Bianca's virginity. And then you're
like, if you know someone, why would you be like, yeah, I'll date you?
Yeah.
Blah.
Blah.
Blah.
And then.
Blah.
But anyway, I think Cameron, though it is, it is like a infatuation thing because Cameron
(35:19):
doesn't know Bianca when he starts this whole thing.
Yeah, because he's new to Skoll.
He just like sees her and is like, oh my God, you know, she's so innocent and beautiful
and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, okay, whatever. But he does get to, like he actually
makes the effort to get to know her, which Joey doesn't do.
Yeah, yeah.
And she gets to know him and then starts to like him. But it's, yeah, a little bit, a
(35:42):
little bit more. It feels more like genuine than and less manipulative overall. I mean,
there is obviously manipulation in both. But in 10 Things I Hate About You, it feels slightly
more genuine intent wise anyway.
Yeah.
Than in Delivers from Riva.
The food was appalling.
(36:03):
The food was appalling?
I just, it just stuck with me. They were like room temperature nachos with like cheese was
olives and jalapenos on them.
The cafeteria food at the school.
Yeah. And they like, they're just shoveling slop onto their plates and not like commenting
on it at all. And they're just like, because obviously the scene's not about it. It's the
(36:26):
scenes like they're having a conversation about the plans and stuff. It was just like,
yeah, I was just staring at Heathly's plate the entire time being like, what the hell is
that pink oozing shit that's like on his plate? It looked like terrible white people Asian
food.
Okay.
Like we just slice onions, capsicums and pineapple with like chicken and noodles.
(36:51):
That's what it looked like. But then it had mashed potatoes. It was very confusing.
Just a weird mix of foods.
Yeah.
That were a family.
Red dye number 40.
Yeah.
You know, you're just stuck with me for some weird reason.
They were separated as well. The olives were on one side and the jalapenos on the other.
(37:17):
They're not under a heat lamp or anything. They're just like room temperature.
Yeah. Just sitting out on a shelf for the kids to pick up.
Yeah. Vile.
You want to move into some trivia? Because I'm pretty much sure it's still held up on
now. I don't really have any trivia for a delivery from Eva. The only thing I took down
was that at the end when they ride off in the sunset, because they do on a white horse,
(37:41):
you get to see like this Chicago skyline, but it was filmed in Los Angeles. So it's
just like super imposed over downtown LA. For 10 things I hate about you, first of all,
it was Heath Ledger's first film in America. The accent, because you were talking about
it. So apparently people were concerned about Heath Ledger's accent and keeping the Australian
(38:05):
accent and the director was like, no, it makes him feel dangerous and sexy. Let him be
ostracised. So I think they just wrote it in that they were like, yeah, yeah, he lived
in Australia for 10 years before moving to the States. We already mentioned the
entire film shot in real locations. There's no sets used. Joseph Gordon-Levitt, iconically
(38:28):
in the movie, said he's going to tutor Bianca in French and then has to learn French to
do it. Joseph Gordon-Levitt is fluent in French and was at the time of filming as well. So
he had to like pretend to be bad at French, which is great. The screenwriters for this
are Karen McCullough and Kristen Smith. This was their first screenplay and they would
(38:49):
go on to write Legally Blonde after this, which is another great movie. And The House
Bunny, which is I think the lesser of the three, but still a fun movie, which I think
is one of Emma Stone's first films as well. The scene at the end where Kat reads her 10
(39:09):
Things I Hate About You poem, they only did one take. She was not supposed to cry.
She just got actually emotional reading it and teared up and cried while reading the
poem. And they were like, yeah, I don't think we need to do another take on this. That was
(39:33):
perfect. And yeah, I had mentioned the school. The school is located in Tacoma, Washington,
and it was built as a chateau-style railroad. Oh, it was a railroad station hotel is what
it was built as. Yeah, so railroad station hotel. And then it had a lot of fire damage
in a fire and was renovated into a high school. And also, so Julia Stiles after this went
(39:57):
on to be in a dance movie called Save the Last Dance, which she landed the lead role
to after the table dancing scene and The Things I Hate About You. They were like, yeah, that's
her. That's her lead. And I think that's all the trivia I took down. That movie did really
(40:17):
well, actually. Which one? The Things I Hate About You? No. Oh, Delivers from Eva. No,
Save the Last Dance. Oh, Save the Last Dance. It cost 13 million and made 131. Yeah, it's
a decent one. I've only seen it once and it was a while ago. I do like Julia Stiles. She's
been in a few interesting things, I feel like. Yeah, I think the cast in The Things I Hate
(40:45):
About You was really good. Yeah, but it was like a sort of bottled lightning because you've
got so much potential in there. The thing that we haven't mentioned, the music in it
is very 90s. Very 90s where every scene is just like bombarding you with some hit at
(41:08):
the time. Maybe not top five, but it was definitely top 40. It's such a 90s movie trope though
to have those popular music just blaring over different things. Delivers from Eva also does
it a little bit. It's got 2000 music in just weird places in it. I feel like in Delivers
(41:33):
from Eva it's mainly diegetic. It's in-universe, they're listening to it, except for the opening
sequence which is stolen from My Best Friend's Wedding where it's just in a sound stage,
just pure background color and people singing, which is a weird opening to that particular
movie I think. Definitely tonally it was weird. Yeah, it didn't really match the rest of the
(42:01):
movie. Yeah, I don't know, is there anything else you want to say about these? Did you
enjoy them as a non-Ramkham person? 10 Things I Hate About You was an enjoyable movie that
I would watch again at some point. The other movie unfortunately was disappointing, lackluster,
(42:22):
had a lot of potential and just wasn't used because of weird choices. Yeah, I agree with
you. Again, I do think the cast is actually decent. Even with Lady's Love, Call James,
there's nothing wrong with the acting. The dialogue was squared and unnatural and I just
(42:45):
feel like there were... You mentioned the fact that it was written by men. That entire
sequence in the salon is so bizarre when the guy comes in and is like, I gotta leave because
otherwise all you do is rag on men the entire time. Yeah, it's weird. And it's like, who
(43:10):
is this funny for? I feel like it was written by particularly insecure men. I don't know
anything about the guys who wrote it so I don't want to make a call on them. It reeked
of weird toxic masculinity. Also, the brothers in it and the tone of the film, the brothers
are like this but also it's seen as acceptable. They're very sexist. They're also racist.
(43:35):
One of them is like an impersonation of a Chinese person at one point or something.
It's a really weird racial stereotype thing. They're quite homophobic. There is mention
of queerness in both movies in 10 Days I Hate About You. It's very subtly that when
Cameron is talking to Bianca and trying to gauge politely if a cat might actually be
(44:01):
a lesbian and that's why she's not dating any men, Bianca is like, oh, you mean is she
a friend of Katie Lang? Or is she a fan of Katie Lang? And you're like, okay. And then
she's like, no, she's got a picture of Jared Leto. Yeah, which is also super weird. But
also it doesn't sound like they would have a problem if she was gay. They just would
(44:24):
be like, oh shit, well, we gotta change tactics here. We can't get her to date this guy. Whereas
in Deliveries from Eva, they're all kind of afraid of being seen as gay. And then also
there is one gay character in it, but it's revealed in a weirdly in a post credit scene.
They have a post credit scene specifically to reveal that the one gay character is only
(44:46):
pretending to be gay so he can work at a hair salon. Which is bizarre. And they try to say
that straight men are persecuted and can't get a job because they're straight. So you
have to pretend to be gay to get a job. So that's weird. And then they're also ableist.
They use ableist language. But I think that slur for mentally disabled people appears
(45:09):
in both movies. So it is a little bit just a sign of that time. And I'm glad that we
kind of moved on from that. But yeah, I thought it was weird that like they're sexist, homophobic,
racist and ableist. And these are the guys who are supposed to kind of side with, I guess.
Yeah. Yeah. So it's strange. Anyway, on that note, if you want to join our discord, you'll
(45:35):
be able to find it below in the show notes. And if you want to see everywhere where they're
available, maybe you've overheard this somewhere and you're like, oh, where where can I go to
find more? It takes to dot co dot nz is a website made by a lovely Lisa. And you can find all
the information you need right there, including joining our mailing list and our links to
(46:01):
blue sky as well as social media platforms. And to our YouTube where we do shorts that
aren't related to the podcast. And if you've enjoyed anything or you've not enjoyed it,
let us know and also share like and share because it really does help when you know,
we can't pay. It's very expensive when you're having an international audience to try and
(46:24):
advertise places. And it is really reliant on you the listener to advertise for us because
otherwise if you enjoyed it or you didn't enjoy it, maybe just be like, hey, listen, this garbage,
at least we'll get lessons. And happy Valentine's Day. Oh, yeah. Valentine's,
St. Valentine. He died on the heart for our sins. Yeah, he died on his heart. His heart is
(46:52):
available to see in a church in Dublin. So if you're in Dublin, go look at us.
You can go look at St. Valentine's. They only show it to you on Valentine's Day.
Nothing makes couples hornier than seeing a dead guy's heart at a church.
Absolutely. Go for it. All right. Bye bye. Bye.
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