May 24, 2025 • 18 mins
Karen breaks down the benefits of precursor hormones—specifically pregnenolone and DHEA—for those who struggle with traditional hormone replacement therapy. She explains how these naturally occurring compounds support the production of estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone, and how they may offer relief from symptoms like brain fog, fatigue, sleep disturbances, and low libido.
Visit our website itchyandbitchy.com to read blog posts on the many topics we have covered on the show.
Visit our website itchyandbitchy.com to read blog posts on the many topics we have covered on the show.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The content of this podcast is provided for general informational
purposes only and is not intended as nor should it
be considered a substitute for professional medical advice. Hello everyone,
(00:22):
This is Karen Nicol, family nurse practitioner, and this is
Itchy and Bitchy, a podcast that provides answers to your
many unanswered health questions. A quick reminder about my course
called the Perimenopause Answer. If you are going through this
phase of life called perimenopause, I would love to have
the opportunity to talk to you about the course to
see if it's the right fit for you. There is
(00:43):
a link on our website Itchyendbitchy dot com and our
Facebook page I n B Podcast where you can schedule
an appointment for a zoom call with me. When you
make that appointment, I'll be sitting at my desk waiting
for you to join the one on one zoom call.
In my practice and in my course for perimenopausal and
menopausal women, I have had some women who just have
(01:06):
not been able to tolerate or have not done well
with direct replacement of the female hormones estradiol, progesterone, and testosterone.
In those cases, oftentimes they will do well with something
called precursor hormones. Precursor means something that comes before another thing.
(01:33):
When talking about hormones, it means hormones that come before
or are converted into other hormones. So by supplying precursor hormones,
you can help supply other hormones. Okay, let me explain.
(01:53):
So let's start with a hormone called pregnenolone. Hang with me. Pregninolone.
It is made from cholesterol, So I know we think
of cholesterol as a bad thing, but it can do
good things. We make pregnenolone from cholesterol and it is
produced Pregnanenolone is produced in the tissue of the brain,
(02:16):
adrenal glands, and ovaries. Pregnenolone is the grandmother of most
of our hormones, since it can convert into progesterone, DGA, testosterone, cortisol,
and estradiol, all of those hormones. Pregnenolone can reduce the
(02:40):
symptoms of menopause because it produces the hormones that we
lose as we age. So let's say that we have
someone who's estradiol, our most stimulatory form of estrogen that
comes from our ovaries, estradyl, progesterone and testosterone levels are low,
and they have had side effects like breast tenderness or
(03:03):
mood changes on HRT that included one, two, or all
three of those hormones. So let's say they've gone into
menopause and they had hot flashes and night sweats that
were miserable, and so we gave them estradil, progesterone, and
testosterone to relieve those menopausal symptoms. But in the effort
(03:25):
to relieve those symptoms, they had side effects like breast tenderness,
mood changes, puffiness, weight gain, irritability. Let's say they had
all those side effects, and let's say the side effects
could not be relieved in spite of trying different doses
and different forms of HRT like creams or capsules or pellets.
(03:49):
We just could not find an HRT form or dose
that would help their menopausal symptoms without giving them side effects. Oh,
that person may do better with a precursor hormone like pregnenolone.
And why would that be because rather than the prescriber
(04:12):
using trial and error to find the right dosing of
hormones for the individual, a hormone like pregnenolone that has
the ability to make all three of those hormones, which
pregnenolone can do. It can convert to all three of
those hormones can be given and the body does the conversion.
(04:34):
Are you following me, So pregnenolone can convert to estradiol, progesterone,
and testosterone. Now it's not going to make as much
of those three hormones as if we gave somebody those
three hormones, but it may give just the right amount
that that person needs. Also, using pregnenolone has benefits in
(05:00):
addition to acting as the precursor of the other hormones. So,
in addition to giving progesterone, estrodol, and testosterone, pregnenolone and
the metabolites of pregnenolone have been shown to have anti
inflammatory properties. Its role in preventing neuroinflammation and enhancing neuroprotection
(05:24):
has been well documented. So protecting the brain and the
whole neurologic system and reducing inflammation in the brain and
the whole neurologic system has been documented. Protecting our neurologic
system is a pretty terrific benefit, and studies have also
shown that pregnenolone has antidepressant properties, improves memory and cognitive functions,
(05:51):
controls pain, and relieve symptoms of mood disorder. One thing
that hasn't been revealed in these studies is mechanism. The
mechanism behind the anti inflammatory and neuroprotective functions of pregnenolone.
We just don't know why it does what it does.
(06:13):
Pregninolo may play an important role in the body's response
to stress. Industrial psychologists are those people who apply psychological
principles to the workplace. So if you didn't know what
an industrial psychologist was, that's what they are. So a
group of industrial psychologists studied pregnenolone's effects on enhancing job
(06:37):
performance in students and workers. They found that pregnantolone helped
both groups learn and remember difficult tasks. Pregnenolone not only
enhanced job performance, but also improved feelings of well being
in the test subjects. During periods of stress, the secretion
(06:59):
of cortisol from the adrenal glands increases. In a study
of army pilots who are under stress, as one can imagine,
it was noted that their increased output of cortisol caused
increased fatigue in the pilots resulting in poor performance. When
given fifty milligrams of pregnenolone daily, their work performance improved
(07:24):
with no adverse side effects. Pregnenolone can also improve immune
system function and aid in weight loss by helping regulate
cortisol levels. Additionally, pregnenolone can stimulate deep sleep, making it
ideal for anyone who suffers from sleep disturbance or insomnia. Also,
(07:48):
increased time spent in deep sleep can have a positive
impact on mood, anxiety, and even memory. Pregnenolone is sold
over the counter, but it is really important to work
with a provider who knows what they're doing to help
you with dosing and management of this hormone. Over the
(08:11):
counterproducts coming capsules, creams, and oils, and pregnenolone can also
be compounded that has to be prescribed when it's compounded.
Available ooral doses typically range from five milligrams up to
one hundred milligrams per cap Average cap dosing is fifty
milligrams per day, and creams that are available ranged from
(08:35):
ten milligrams to twenty five milligrams, with a twenty five
milligram dose of cream being an average dose. Oils can
be found with a range of ten to twenty milligrams
per five drops of oil, and a twenty milligram dose
of pregnenolone oil is an average dose. Keep in mind
(08:57):
that high doses high dose of pregnant loan can make
a person irritable or anxious, or cause headaches or heart palpitations.
It is always best to start low and increase slowly.
The most common side effect is drowsiness, so it is
always best to dose it at bedtime. I'll tell you
(09:21):
about another precursor hormone and what it can do for
you after this quick break. Welcome back. The other precursor
(09:46):
hormone we have besides pregnant loan is DHEA dehydroepiendrosterone. I'm
not going to say that again in the rest of
the episode, and you're welcome. DHA is produced by the
adrenal glands, and adrenal production of DHA begins during puberty
and peaks at around twenty years of age. At approximately
(10:10):
age twenty five, the blood levels of DHA begin to decline,
and by age seventy five, the DHA levels are approximately
eighty percent lower than they were at twenty years old.
DHA levels also decline under a variety of conditions of
physiological stress, such as acute and chronic infections and trauma.
(10:35):
Vegetarians have been shown to have decreased DHA levels as well.
In humans, healthy blood DHA levels have been linked to
bone and muscle health, feelings of well being, improved concentration,
long term memory and cognition, improved pregnancy rates, lower miscarriage rates,
(10:58):
as well as increase sense of vitality and better sex drive.
Low concentrations of DHA have been associated with underfunctioning, anxiety
disorders during pregnancy, symptoms of depression, poor sense of well being,
and foggy thinking. Recent experimental and human studies show that
(11:20):
DHA is involved in a large variety of physiological processes,
including immune function, brain function, bone metabolism, blood lipid metabolism,
energy metabolism, the regulation of normal blood sugar and insulin levels,
and the maintenance of lean body mass. I'm needing that
(11:44):
about now. As I mentioned, DHA is a precursor hormone.
It can convert to two different forms of estrogen estradio
an estrone, and it can convert to testosterone. Testosterone also
provides benefits to both men and women. Testosterone helps build
(12:05):
muscle and bone, mass aids sex drive, improves physical stamina,
and sharpen spatial and analytical thinking. Since DHA is a
precursor hormone to testosterone, a group of researchers wanted to
determine if taking a DHA supplement would indeed improve testosterone levels.
(12:28):
In twenty twenty, this group of researchers did a meta
analysis of forty two publications and found that DHA supplementation
was indeed associated with an increase in testosterone levels. Taking
DHA supplements increase testosterone levels in all subgroups in the studies,
(12:50):
no matter the age or health status, but the level
of increase was higher in women compared to men. Interesting,
the testosterone level increase was significantly greater in the subgroup
who received DHA doses of greater than fifty milligrams per day.
(13:12):
But I'll talk about typical dosing for men and women
in a minute. Just like pregnant alone, DHA is available
as an over the counter supplement. It comes in the
form of capsules, creams, or oils, and the caps are
typically available in doses of five milligrams up to one
(13:32):
hundred milligrams. The creams are usually available in the dose
range of ten to fifteen milligrams per dose, and the
oils are often four milligrams to eight milligrams per drop,
and DHA can also, like pregnant alone, be compounded and
that is by prescription. The potential benefits of supplementing DHA
(13:57):
include improved bone density and uscle strength, decreased depression symptoms,
and increased fat burning. Studies also show that DHA may
improve sexual function, fertility, and libido. Other studies have shown
improvement in adrenal problems in women when taking DHA. When
(14:19):
supplementing with DHA, women with adrenal insufficiency had decreased feelings
of anxiety and depression and improved overall well being and
sexual satisfaction. For women, When taking DHA in capsule form,
it is usually dosed from five to twenty five milligrams
(14:40):
per day, usually in the evening or bedtime. Dosing for
men is often fifty milligrams to one hundred milligrams per day,
and also it is dosed in the evening or at bedtime.
For women using DHA cream, dosing is usually ten to
fifteen milligrams daily and DHA oil dosing is usually around
(15:03):
eight to sixteen milligrams daily. If the dosing is too
high in women, it can cause oily skin, acne, and
frontal hair loss, all of which is usually not what
we're looking for. Using precursor hormones provides specific benefits, whether
(15:24):
or not you take them with traditional hormone replacement of estrogen,
progesterone and or testosterone. For some women who don't want
to or can't take estrogen progesterone and testosterone, using the
precursor hormones of pregny loone and DHA that indirectly provide
estradile progesterone and testosterone may be a really good option. Typically,
(15:49):
the beneficial effects associated with DHA may be primarily seen
in those with low DHA levels or certain health conditions
that I've reviewed with you. For young, healthy individuals who
are having no symptoms, taking DHA is likely not necessary.
This hormone is produced naturally in the body, and more
(16:11):
of it is not necessarily better if your levels are healthy. However,
supplementing with DHA may benefit some individuals, specifically older adults
and those with certain adrenal or sexual or fertility problems.
Of course, This is something you should discuss with your
healthcare provider to make sure this is a good option
(16:34):
for you. I just want you to be aware that
this option is out there and could be something that
might work well for you. Thank all of you for listening.
Wherever you listen to this podcast, please leave a review
and rate the podcast. Your reviews and ratings really do matter. Also,
make sure you follow the show so that it will
(16:55):
be automatically downloaded. Just click that follow button. That really
matters too. I encourage you to visit our Facebook page
imb Podcast, where you can give us a like and
leave comments or questions for me. Our website is itchyanbitchi
dot com, where there are blogs with some of our
subjects available for you to read. On the Facebook page
(17:15):
and website, we have the information about how to schedule
and appointment with me so we can chat about how
my Pyramid Pausecorse can help you if you're going through
this phase in life. As always, thanks to Forest Winsle,
our producer and composer of our theme music and the
person who does all the behind the scenes work to
make this podcast possible. Thank you, Forest. Forest has completed
(17:39):
his first very successful year at Peabody Music Conservatory amazing.
I'm so proud of him, And remember everyone, your health
is in your hands.
The content of this podcast is provided for general informational
purposes only and is not intended as nor should it
be considered a substitute for professional medical advice. Hello everyone,
(00:22):
This is Karen Nicol, family nurse practitioner, and this is
Itchy and Bitchy, a podcast that provides answers to your
many unanswered health questions. A quick reminder about my course
called the Perimenopause Answer. If you are going through this
phase of life called perimenopause, I would love to have
the opportunity to talk to you about the course to
see if it's the right fit for you. There is
(00:43):
a link on our website Itchyendbitchy dot com and our
Facebook page I n B Podcast where you can schedule
an appointment for a zoom call with me. When you
make that appointment, I'll be sitting at my desk waiting
for you to join the one on one zoom call.
In my practice and in my course for perimenopausal and
menopausal women, I have had some women who just have
(01:06):
not been able to tolerate or have not done well
with direct replacement of the female hormones estradiol, progesterone, and testosterone.
In those cases, oftentimes they will do well with something
called precursor hormones. Precursor means something that comes before another thing.
(01:33):
When talking about hormones, it means hormones that come before
or are converted into other hormones. So by supplying precursor hormones,
you can help supply other hormones. Okay, let me explain.
(01:53):
So let's start with a hormone called pregnenolone. Hang with me. Pregninolone.
It is made from cholesterol, So I know we think
of cholesterol as a bad thing, but it can do
good things. We make pregnenolone from cholesterol and it is
produced Pregnanenolone is produced in the tissue of the brain,
(02:16):
adrenal glands, and ovaries. Pregnenolone is the grandmother of most
of our hormones, since it can convert into progesterone, DGA, testosterone, cortisol,
and estradiol, all of those hormones. Pregnenolone can reduce the
(02:40):
symptoms of menopause because it produces the hormones that we
lose as we age. So let's say that we have
someone who's estradiol, our most stimulatory form of estrogen that
comes from our ovaries, estradyl, progesterone and testosterone levels are low,
and they have had side effects like breast tenderness or
(03:03):
mood changes on HRT that included one, two, or all
three of those hormones. So let's say they've gone into
menopause and they had hot flashes and night sweats that
were miserable, and so we gave them estradil, progesterone, and
testosterone to relieve those menopausal symptoms. But in the effort
(03:25):
to relieve those symptoms, they had side effects like breast tenderness,
mood changes, puffiness, weight gain, irritability. Let's say they had
all those side effects, and let's say the side effects
could not be relieved in spite of trying different doses
and different forms of HRT like creams or capsules or pellets.
(03:49):
We just could not find an HRT form or dose
that would help their menopausal symptoms without giving them side effects. Oh,
that person may do better with a precursor hormone like pregnenolone.
And why would that be because rather than the prescriber
(04:12):
using trial and error to find the right dosing of
hormones for the individual, a hormone like pregnenolone that has
the ability to make all three of those hormones, which
pregnenolone can do. It can convert to all three of
those hormones can be given and the body does the conversion.
(04:34):
Are you following me, So pregnenolone can convert to estradiol, progesterone,
and testosterone. Now it's not going to make as much
of those three hormones as if we gave somebody those
three hormones, but it may give just the right amount
that that person needs. Also, using pregnenolone has benefits in
(05:00):
addition to acting as the precursor of the other hormones. So,
in addition to giving progesterone, estrodol, and testosterone, pregnenolone and
the metabolites of pregnenolone have been shown to have anti
inflammatory properties. Its role in preventing neuroinflammation and enhancing neuroprotection
(05:24):
has been well documented. So protecting the brain and the
whole neurologic system and reducing inflammation in the brain and
the whole neurologic system has been documented. Protecting our neurologic
system is a pretty terrific benefit, and studies have also
shown that pregnenolone has antidepressant properties, improves memory and cognitive functions,
(05:51):
controls pain, and relieve symptoms of mood disorder. One thing
that hasn't been revealed in these studies is mechanism. The
mechanism behind the anti inflammatory and neuroprotective functions of pregnenolone.
We just don't know why it does what it does.
(06:13):
Pregninolo may play an important role in the body's response
to stress. Industrial psychologists are those people who apply psychological
principles to the workplace. So if you didn't know what
an industrial psychologist was, that's what they are. So a
group of industrial psychologists studied pregnenolone's effects on enhancing job
(06:37):
performance in students and workers. They found that pregnantolone helped
both groups learn and remember difficult tasks. Pregnenolone not only
enhanced job performance, but also improved feelings of well being
in the test subjects. During periods of stress, the secretion
(06:59):
of cortisol from the adrenal glands increases. In a study
of army pilots who are under stress, as one can imagine,
it was noted that their increased output of cortisol caused
increased fatigue in the pilots resulting in poor performance. When
given fifty milligrams of pregnenolone daily, their work performance improved
(07:24):
with no adverse side effects. Pregnenolone can also improve immune
system function and aid in weight loss by helping regulate
cortisol levels. Additionally, pregnenolone can stimulate deep sleep, making it
ideal for anyone who suffers from sleep disturbance or insomnia. Also,
(07:48):
increased time spent in deep sleep can have a positive
impact on mood, anxiety, and even memory. Pregnenolone is sold
over the counter, but it is really important to work
with a provider who knows what they're doing to help
you with dosing and management of this hormone. Over the
(08:11):
counterproducts coming capsules, creams, and oils, and pregnenolone can also
be compounded that has to be prescribed when it's compounded.
Available ooral doses typically range from five milligrams up to
one hundred milligrams per cap Average cap dosing is fifty
milligrams per day, and creams that are available ranged from
(08:35):
ten milligrams to twenty five milligrams, with a twenty five
milligram dose of cream being an average dose. Oils can
be found with a range of ten to twenty milligrams
per five drops of oil, and a twenty milligram dose
of pregnenolone oil is an average dose. Keep in mind
(08:57):
that high doses high dose of pregnant loan can make
a person irritable or anxious, or cause headaches or heart palpitations.
It is always best to start low and increase slowly.
The most common side effect is drowsiness, so it is
always best to dose it at bedtime. I'll tell you
(09:21):
about another precursor hormone and what it can do for
you after this quick break. Welcome back. The other precursor
(09:46):
hormone we have besides pregnant loan is DHEA dehydroepiendrosterone. I'm
not going to say that again in the rest of
the episode, and you're welcome. DHA is produced by the
adrenal glands, and adrenal production of DHA begins during puberty
and peaks at around twenty years of age. At approximately
(10:10):
age twenty five, the blood levels of DHA begin to decline,
and by age seventy five, the DHA levels are approximately
eighty percent lower than they were at twenty years old.
DHA levels also decline under a variety of conditions of
physiological stress, such as acute and chronic infections and trauma.
(10:35):
Vegetarians have been shown to have decreased DHA levels as well.
In humans, healthy blood DHA levels have been linked to
bone and muscle health, feelings of well being, improved concentration,
long term memory and cognition, improved pregnancy rates, lower miscarriage rates,
(10:58):
as well as increase sense of vitality and better sex drive.
Low concentrations of DHA have been associated with underfunctioning, anxiety
disorders during pregnancy, symptoms of depression, poor sense of well being,
and foggy thinking. Recent experimental and human studies show that
(11:20):
DHA is involved in a large variety of physiological processes,
including immune function, brain function, bone metabolism, blood lipid metabolism,
energy metabolism, the regulation of normal blood sugar and insulin levels,
and the maintenance of lean body mass. I'm needing that
(11:44):
about now. As I mentioned, DHA is a precursor hormone.
It can convert to two different forms of estrogen estradio
an estrone, and it can convert to testosterone. Testosterone also
provides benefits to both men and women. Testosterone helps build
(12:05):
muscle and bone, mass aids sex drive, improves physical stamina,
and sharpen spatial and analytical thinking. Since DHA is a
precursor hormone to testosterone, a group of researchers wanted to
determine if taking a DHA supplement would indeed improve testosterone levels.
(12:28):
In twenty twenty, this group of researchers did a meta
analysis of forty two publications and found that DHA supplementation
was indeed associated with an increase in testosterone levels. Taking
DHA supplements increase testosterone levels in all subgroups in the studies,
(12:50):
no matter the age or health status, but the level
of increase was higher in women compared to men. Interesting,
the testosterone level increase was significantly greater in the subgroup
who received DHA doses of greater than fifty milligrams per day.
(13:12):
But I'll talk about typical dosing for men and women
in a minute. Just like pregnant alone, DHA is available
as an over the counter supplement. It comes in the
form of capsules, creams, or oils, and the caps are
typically available in doses of five milligrams up to one
(13:32):
hundred milligrams. The creams are usually available in the dose
range of ten to fifteen milligrams per dose, and the
oils are often four milligrams to eight milligrams per drop,
and DHA can also, like pregnant alone, be compounded and
that is by prescription. The potential benefits of supplementing DHA
(13:57):
include improved bone density and uscle strength, decreased depression symptoms,
and increased fat burning. Studies also show that DHA may
improve sexual function, fertility, and libido. Other studies have shown
improvement in adrenal problems in women when taking DHA. When
(14:19):
supplementing with DHA, women with adrenal insufficiency had decreased feelings
of anxiety and depression and improved overall well being and
sexual satisfaction. For women, When taking DHA in capsule form,
it is usually dosed from five to twenty five milligrams
(14:40):
per day, usually in the evening or bedtime. Dosing for
men is often fifty milligrams to one hundred milligrams per day,
and also it is dosed in the evening or at bedtime.
For women using DHA cream, dosing is usually ten to
fifteen milligrams daily and DHA oil dosing is usually around
(15:03):
eight to sixteen milligrams daily. If the dosing is too
high in women, it can cause oily skin, acne, and
frontal hair loss, all of which is usually not what
we're looking for. Using precursor hormones provides specific benefits, whether
(15:24):
or not you take them with traditional hormone replacement of estrogen,
progesterone and or testosterone. For some women who don't want
to or can't take estrogen progesterone and testosterone, using the
precursor hormones of pregny loone and DHA that indirectly provide
estradile progesterone and testosterone may be a really good option. Typically,
(15:49):
the beneficial effects associated with DHA may be primarily seen
in those with low DHA levels or certain health conditions
that I've reviewed with you. For young, healthy individuals who
are having no symptoms, taking DHA is likely not necessary.
This hormone is produced naturally in the body, and more
(16:11):
of it is not necessarily better if your levels are healthy. However,
supplementing with DHA may benefit some individuals, specifically older adults
and those with certain adrenal or sexual or fertility problems.
Of course, This is something you should discuss with your
healthcare provider to make sure this is a good option
(16:34):
for you. I just want you to be aware that
this option is out there and could be something that
might work well for you. Thank all of you for listening.
Wherever you listen to this podcast, please leave a review
and rate the podcast. Your reviews and ratings really do matter. Also,
make sure you follow the show so that it will
(16:55):
be automatically downloaded. Just click that follow button. That really
matters too. I encourage you to visit our Facebook page
imb Podcast, where you can give us a like and
leave comments or questions for me. Our website is itchyanbitchi
dot com, where there are blogs with some of our
subjects available for you to read. On the Facebook page
(17:15):
and website, we have the information about how to schedule
and appointment with me so we can chat about how
my Pyramid Pausecorse can help you if you're going through
this phase in life. As always, thanks to Forest Winsle,
our producer and composer of our theme music and the
person who does all the behind the scenes work to
make this podcast possible. Thank you, Forest. Forest has completed
(17:39):
his first very successful year at Peabody Music Conservatory amazing.
I'm so proud of him, And remember everyone, your health
is in your hands.
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