September 23, 2025 • 36 mins
Suicide Crisis hotline dial 988 (option 1 for veteran support)
Suicide doesn't discriminate. It touches every community, every demographic, and yes—even our churches. This deeply moving conversation with Keli Keener and Daphne Hillhouse, clinical social workers specializing in suicide prevention, reveals how faith communities can become powerful forces in addressing the suicide crisis.
When Keli and Daphne share that 49% of pastors struggle with mental illness while 47% of Americans attend church regularly, the message becomes clear: our churches are both affected by and positioned to help with this crisis. But many religious communities—particularly conservative ones—hesitate to discuss suicide openly, creating silent suffering where healing could occur.
The experts emphasize a crucial truth: loneliness is the greatest risk factor for suicide. Nearly every other risk factor—financial problems, substance abuse, retirement—connects back to isolation. This means relationship-building becomes our most powerful prevention tool. You don't need clinical training to notice someone withdrawing, to invite them to coffee, or to ask directly, "Are you thinking about killing yourself?" That question doesn't plant ideas; it shows you care enough to create space for honesty.
Resources abound for communities ready to engage: from the 988 crisis line (with option 1 for veterans) to training programs like QPR (Question, Persuade, Refer) that can equip church leaders and members with life-saving skills. The American Foundation for Suicide Prevention offers "Out of the Darkness" walks where survivors find healing by sharing stories and honoring loved ones lost.
Perhaps most powerful is the episode's personal touch, as host Kim McIntire dedicates the conversation to her beloved aunt—remembering not how she died, but how beautifully she lived. This poignant moment reminds us that behind every statistic is a person deeply loved and profoundly missed.
What role will you play in preventing suicide? Whether through direct support, volunteering, or simply breaking stigma by speaking openly, your actions matter. Because as scripture reminds us, "The Lord is close to the brokenhearted"—and we are called to be His hands and feet.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kim McIntire (00:08):
Hey everyone, welcome to the it's Time to Rise
Up podcast.
I'm your host, Kim McIntire.
We know there are so manythings you can do with your time
, so we want to thank you forchoosing to spend your time
listening.
We pray you are encouraged andblessed by what is shared today.
If you're not familiar with ourshow, please check out our
website at itstimetoriseup.
org.
There you will find our socialmedia links and for our podcast
(00:33):
platforms you can find us onYouTube, apple Podcasts, spotify
and everywhere else you findyour podcast.
We are excited to announce thatthe Abide Study is now
available on Amazon and BarnesNoble.
The link to order is found inour show notes.
The Abide Study is currentlythe discipleship piece of the
Rise Up Movement.
There's more about that on ourwebsite.
(00:55):
But let's get to today'sepisode.
I want to welcome into thestudio Keli Keener and Daphne
Hillhouse.
I'm so glad you ladies are withus today.
Thank you for being here.
Awesome Thanks for having us.
You are so welcome.
They are here to talk aboutSeptember being Suicide
Prevention Month.
If you or anyone you know areexperiencing suicidal thoughts,
(01:19):
dial 988.
That is the suicide preventioncrisis line number and we just
want to encourage that.
Keep that number tucked intoyour mind.
You never know when you comeacross someone who may need that
information Again.
(01:39):
I'm so honored to have you bothhere today to talk about
suicide awareness.
But before we get into thattopic, would you tell us a
little bit about yourselves?
Keli, you've been a previousguest before You're on our lead
team.
You manage benevolence for ourconference.
And just remind the listeners alittle bit about yourself.
Keli Keener (01:53):
Well, I'm Keli Keener.
I've been part of Rise Up for acouple years now, and so I'm
just coming alongside the teamto bring hope into our
communities, and so that's areally big part of my heart.
My husband and I have beenmarried for over 30 years.
We have three children and fourgrandchildren, and I have a
heart for serving in the church,and that's kind of moved on to
(02:17):
serving our communities andcommunities that have been
marginalized by some, and sothat's good, which brought me to
being a social worker.
So I've been a clinical socialworker in the social work field
for over 20 years, and so that'sabout the gist of me.
Kim McIntire (02:35):
Okay, thank you, Daphne.
How about you Tell us a little?
Daphne Hillhouse (02:37):
about yourself .
Hi, I'm Daphne Hillhouse.
I am Keli's co-worker for aboutsix or seven years now.
We've known each other for awhile.
I'm also been married about tenyears and have a stepson who is
18 and a six-year-old littledaughter, who is my mini-me
(03:01):
Totally ridiculous.
We'll have her own podcast oneday.
For sure.
That's awesome and uh, likeKeli, I mean, I think we wound
up working with a team of peoplewho, uh, we came in to social
work as a ministry.
Uh, we, of course, we're notworking within the church making
(03:23):
money, we're working outsidewithin the church making money.
We're working outside of thechurch, but still in ministry,
and I think that's reallyfoundational to our team and the
choices that we've made, wherewe put our energies, our efforts
.
For sure, yeah, that's so good.
Kim McIntire (03:59):
Yeah, that's so good.
Well, we were talking some timeback, Keli, about your heart
for just raising awareness inour community and our churches
about this issue.
Really, that is crisis in ourcommunity and our nation the
crisis of suicide.
And what role does the churchhave, what role does the
community have in helping?
And really you're here to speakinto that and that's your field
and you've worked a lot withveterans, right?
Yes, so I guess, because I knowthat's your background, let's
talk about what the VA does tohelp prevent suicide.
(04:25):
Can we just start there?
Yeah, sure, Daphne.
Keli Keener (04:27):
Why don't you kind of talk about your role first?
Daphne Hillhouse (04:31):
I've been in this role of suicide prevention,
working with veterans, forabout nine years.
The VA has a really amazingservices directed toward
veterans in the suicide space,if you will.
It's not something that'sreplicated in other health care
(04:52):
systems.
So every VA has a dedicatedteam for preventing suicide.
So that can look like providingcase management for people who
are very high risk for suicide.
It can also, for us, meansdoing things like this media
training our communities,training our staff for sure,
(05:15):
creating policies that make surewe're providing all kinds of
safety and services andscreening for our veterans, as
well as doing outreach, somaking sure that people
understand 988 is there 24-7,365, it's not going away, and
that veterans specifically candial one after they've dialed
(05:37):
988 to go to VA staff to talk.
So that's a really big part ofwhat we do as well, as we were
kind of the advertisement forthe veterans crisis line.
That's so good.
Kim McIntire (05:50):
Wow.
What about, um, when we'rethinking more in regard to
church and community, becauseyou guys are associated with va
and those systems are in place.
When it comes to just being amember of the community, when it
comes to just being a part ofthe local church, whether you're
(06:13):
here locally in the JoplinMissouri area or anywhere all
over the nation, where do youbegin?
When it comes to prevention andhelp?
Keli Keener (06:23):
Well, our heart is to educate the church, the
church leadership, the clergy inthe church, the importance of
suicide prevention training fortheir staff, for any leaders
inside the church, and so wespecifically have a clergy
training that we can do forthose leadership names
(06:44):
churchgoers.
There's statistics that says49% of pastors suffer from
mental illness, themselves somesort of mental illness, and 47%
of Americans say they attend achurch and they have a
membership to a church.
So we know that's a huge partof our population in America is
(07:07):
the churchgoers, and so if wecan educate churchgoers and
their leadership on the need forsuicide prevention, then we are
conquering a section ofpopulation that maybe we haven't
reached in the past.
Kim McIntire (07:22):
For sure.
And if a church is wanting thattraining for their staff, like,
what resource is there?
Like how do they get connectedwith this training?
Keli Keener (07:48):
trained staff that will do an Operation Save
training in the communities.
But also there are suicideprevention grants in the
community that will also dosuicide prevention for agencies,
for individuals.
So there's a lot ofopportunities.
Daphne Hillhouse (07:58):
Daphne, I know through the VA we have grants
that are in the community toinclude a community engagement,
have grants that are in thecommunity to include a community
engagement and any area mentalhealth agency or the American
Foundation for SuicidePrevention.
Really, you could probably putyour town suicide prevention
(08:22):
training and it's going to pullup agencies that will provide
trainings.
They have all kinds of acronyms, just like we have VA SAVE.
They're all kind of acronyms.
Qpr is very common question,persuade refer.
None of these.
They're all very generic.
They don't.
They're not.
You know we all have, we're allhuman.
So there's all a.
(08:43):
There's a base there that, nomatter which one you choose to
do, which one's going to fit youin terms of how long it takes I
mean because QPR might take anhour and a half to talk about,
where there's a CIS trainingthat takes like eight hours.
So no matter what you choose,you then as a congregation or
(09:03):
leadership, you take it and youadapt it to your, your
population.
You're the people that you'reserving, because all of them
just have that baseline of thisis how we talk about suicide and
prevent suicide.
So they're all adaptable towhatever you need.
Kim McIntire (09:22):
So it's not difficult to find those
resources if you have a heart tofind them right.
So it's not difficult to findthose resources.
Daphne Hillhouse (09:28):
If you have a heart to find them right,
they're available.
Yeah, in the US it should notbe hard.
Now we do have.
Obviously, one of the toolsthat we use at the VA to screen
is called the Columbia SuicideSeverity Rating Scale, and we
teach that as part of ourtrainings, because it is a
(09:49):
screen, a screener made for thecommunity.
It wasn't made for clinicians,it's made for just parents and
police.
That is a a screener that hasbeen used worldwide.
It is peer-reviewed and hasbeen tried all over the world.
So I would say that's the goldstandard.
Um, and none of, but none ofthese things have.
There's not going to be anemphasis on any kind of
spirituality of one side versusthe other.
(10:11):
They're all very neutral.
So I think that's important.
Choosing one is just justchoose one.
Yeah, okay.
Kim McIntire (10:19):
So what about when it comes to just personal
relationships, and maybe you'rein relationship with someone or
connected to someone that youfeel is struggling with suicidal
ideations, or maybe even theymake comments about life's not
(10:40):
worth living?
I mean, I've heard people saythat and you kind of wonder okay
, how serious are they with thatstatement?
Someone said that to me acouple of weeks ago.
I was just prayer walking in myneighborhood and a neighbor
just was basically saying I justfeel like I'm in a hopeless
situation and there's not reallyan answer.
I don't know why I'm here.
Those kind of comments cancause one to wonder is this
(11:06):
person at risk for suicide?
So how could one of you speakinto that?
Are there ways, as a friend ora neighbor or a family member,
that you can have an alertnessor an awareness that this isn't
just someone venting becausethey're frustrated in the moment
?
Right, because we've all said.
I've said things like why am Ieven here?
You know I wasn't thinkingabout suicide.
(11:27):
Do you know what I mean?
But there, there there is aline where obviously it is.
It is an ideation.
Can you guys give us someinsight on how to know the
difference?
Daphne Hillhouse (11:39):
I don't think you have to know the difference.
I think we just we start withtaking every comment seriously,
because even you you're like itwas kind of a flippant thing and
like I don't even know why I'mhere.
There was still some stress oranxiety that you're feeling at
that point, or else you wouldn'thave said it right.
So maybe you're not at thepoint of even thinking about
taking your life, but you're atthe point where you're like I
(12:02):
need someone to help me, I needsomeone to talk to me, and
really we can give a big list ofrisk factors for suicide.
There's a big list.
I mean it's not A plus B equalsC.
It's not that easy or we wouldget rid of suicide, right.
But it's like, if you thebiggest, when I look at this big
(12:22):
list, all of them are connectedto and to loneliness.
And so if you every single oneof them financial problems,
substance abuse, you knowretirement is a big time that
people think about suicidebecause you've lost your whole
social group, you know you'velost all these, your mission and
purpose, and so anything comesback to loneliness.
(12:44):
So a person that is saying toyou I don't know what there's
left to live for.
What they're saying is I just,I need relationship, and I think
that's the biggest, becauseloneliness is the biggest risk
factor.
Social supports, familysupports, sitting and talking
with someone, having someone tolisten to you, is going to be
(13:07):
the biggest protective factor.
So you don't have to have anytraining or have any kind of
special discernment.
I guess you just listen.
Keli Keener (13:17):
And I think you directly ask are you thinking
about killing yourself, are youthinking about suicide?
I think that direct questionlets someone be seen and heard,
and I know there's some stigmato asking that.
People are like, oh, I don'twant to give them that thought
if they're not having thatthought.
That doesn't give them thethought if they're not having
the thought.
It's showing that they arebeing cared for, and so it's
(13:40):
really important just to ask thequestion, and we are not asking
untrained people to provide anintervention for someone that's
having suicidal thoughts, butjust to know how to get them
help and how can I support them.
I'm going to continue to betheir friend.
I'm going to continue to calland check on them.
If I know there's times thatthey're more depressed, I'm
going to make sure I make anextra effort.
(14:00):
You're going to be a friend,just like you were anyways,
right yeah.
Kim McIntire (14:05):
Yeah, that's so good.
I'm wondering if anyone islistening now and they're a
listener who is in a situationwhere they feel like they don't
want to live, and we've given anumber for them to call right.
988 is a crisis line.
(14:27):
It's 365 days a year, 24 hoursa day.
It's going to be available.
Holidays and weekends, Holidaysand weekends right.
What more could you speak intothem If someone's listening and
they're experiencing, other thancall the crisis line?
What could we speak into themnow?
Because I feel like there maybe someone who just needs a word
of hope.
Keli Keener (14:48):
I mean, I really believe that people that are
suffering, they feel likethey're suffering alone, right,
it's that isolation.
And then sometimes we isolatemore because of that right and
everything leads us to continuethis cycle of isolation.
And I think that the more thatwe can support someone, when we
(15:11):
see someone in our churches orwe see someone in the groups
that we attend and we invitethem, we see that they're
isolating.
I think, noticing the one we'vetalked about this in Rise Up a
lot notice the one and so noticethose individuals that maybe
are isolating or you're seeingdifferences.
You know we're not expectingyou to be the intervention or
the one that walks them throughthis, through every little thing
(15:34):
, right, but to get them help.
You know, if they are saying,yes, I'm suicidal, know how to
get them help.
You can call 988.
You can take them to thenearest ER.
So there's ways to offer help,right, support them, you know,
ask questions, get to know thembetter.
Daphne Hillhouse (15:50):
Yeah for sure, I think someone, if someone's
listening and Kelly said this ifsomeone's listening now and is
feeling that way, I think thepoint is you're not alone,
that's right.
Every person and we stress thiswhen we talk with the staff
that we train and with anyone.
(16:10):
I mean we train police officers, you know, and we look at the
heroes of our country, quote,unquote Right, whether it's been
, I would be better off dead,so-and-so would be better off
without me.
I would quit hurting everyone.
I can't overcome this addiction.
(16:31):
I'm never going to dig out ofthis hole.
Everybody has felt that way.
Additionally, most of us haveprobably thought about how we
would kill ourselves.
I mean, what would be theeasiest way?
What would be the way that myfamily wouldn't have to find me?
We've all thought that, and Ithink the evil of suicide and
(16:54):
the bad part of the of of mentalillness is that it makes you
feel like you're alone.
Right, and it when, when webelieve that it starts to win.
And so, even if you'rephysically sitting alone
somewhere, you're not alone.
There are people within arm'sreach that have felt the way
(17:18):
that you do, and that's why wehave all this help and that's
why there's people wanting tohelp you.
You just have to find thatright person, because I know it
is a lot of people's experiencethat they'll call up a friend
and that friend says the wrongthing, like they just say
something that's just sooff-putting and they're like,
see, I don't need to be here andthat's just wrong place, wrong
(17:41):
time.
Sure, you know there are peoplewanting and I think that's why
988 is a good place to start.
Not stop, but start, becauseit's somebody that that's what
they're there.
Kim McIntire (17:51):
Absolutely.
They're there, for that's such,that's such good advice, such
good wisdom.
Let's talk just a little bitmore about training and
partnerships between churches,community and mental health
organizations.
I know there are some mentalhealth organizations in most
local communities.
What are some that you guys arefamiliar with that churches
(18:12):
could reach out and connect to?
Daphne Hillhouse (18:15):
So you're going to most areas are going to
have the most common kind offederally funded community
mental health centers that youcan find by a simple Google
search.
You're probably alreadyfamiliar with those there's.
Also you're going to findgovernment agencies.
(18:38):
So there's going to be a VAclinic, there's going to be a
tribal clinic or hospital Healthdepartments a lot of times will
have resources for suicide andthe tribes, I think have worked
more and more on suicideprevention, kind of following
(18:58):
this path of understanding thatsuicide is a health issue
concern.
It's not a mental health issue.
Most people who die by suicidedon't have never had a diagnosed
mental health problem, so it'smore of a health issue and
that's why we screen and talkabout it in all kinds of areas
(19:18):
and not just in mental healthclinics, right, but I think it's
easy to connect to those peopleand then finding community
events that are alreadyhappening.
It is very common around thecountry to find out of the
darkness walks which are put onby the American Foundation for
(19:38):
Suicide Prevention.
So those are happening all overthe place.
You just have to go to theirwebsite and you can always
volunteer at those, have boothsat those.
Churches are always verywelcome to those events.
Nami, which is National Allianceof Mental Illness, thank you.
(19:58):
They have their own kind ofwalks as well, but they also
have support groups that peoplecan be part of or can lead.
So those are two really goodorganizations to just get
involved in and see how thechurch can fit into those that
are already there and is it truethat I don't know if it's
(20:19):
called NAMI?
Kim McIntire (20:20):
is it NAMI?
Is that how you say it?
Is it true that that is aresource for family members who
are experiencing who they'remaybe their sibling or parent or
child or friend is dealing withmental illness but it helps
them to know how to cope and howto function in that
(20:40):
relationship in a way that ishealthier?
Yes, and without that support?
Okay, because I feel like afriend of mine once had told me
she'd gone to that support groupbecause her sister was
suffering with bipolar and I'mpretty sure that's the
organization and she said it wasincredible just the advice and
counsel they were giving abouthow to handle some conflicts,
(21:00):
you know, with someone who'sstruggling with mental illness
and you want to have peace inyour relationships as much as
you can, and she was talkingabout how beneficial that was.
So even as a family member whois just wanting to know how can
I navigate relationship well ina peaceable way if my family
member or friend is strugglingwith mental illness?
(21:21):
So maybe that's even a side ofthe coin we haven't talked about
that might be important.
Keli Keener (21:26):
I think so, and I think also, you know, churches
have programs for substanceabuse.
They have, like you know, wecelebrate recovery and living
free ministries, and so there'sministries there to get involved
in Whether you identify ashaving those kind of problems or
those issues in your life.
Go there and be a support,learn.
Maybe you have a heart forpeople who's lost someone by
(21:48):
suicide and so you want tosupport them.
Start a Bible studies, juststart a group.
I mean, whatever your heartleads you to do, just start it.
Go to your church leadership,Because I would really think
that if you're thinking about it, there's others thinking about
it too.
Oh for sure.
Daphne Hillhouse (22:17):
And so just sometimes it just needs to be
sparked.
Oh for sure, those thingssecretive still and when we're
willing to address theunmentionable, when we're
willing to address those fromthe pulpit or from a group or
from you know, and I think, wheneven in a small town I live in
(22:39):
a small town and celebraterecovery, we have those.
But one of the hard thingsabout it is getting people to
provide child care while someonegoes and engages in that group.
So maybe you're like I don'tthink I can sit in that group,
Take care of some kids, Makesome food.
That's good.
I mean, it doesn't have to be.
All of us have a differentlevel or a different comfort.
Keli Keener (23:01):
There's so many people with the gift of
hospitality.
As you're talking, I'm like, ohmy gosh, that's the perfect
place for someone with the giftof hospitality to come alongside
a group and say I can bakecookies or I can make a
casserole, or I can, you knowyou have gifts and talents, yeah
, or someone who loves kids.
Kim McIntire (23:16):
Be like I could take one evening a week or a
month to go and play withchildren.
Keli Keener (23:22):
You know, so I think that's a good reminder.
When you're planning to dosomething.
Look at the whole family system, Like, who are you targeting?
Yes, there's an individual thatneeds connection, but maybe
they're a part of a biggersystem, Like they have children,
or maybe they're caring forelderly parents, right?
So what is your system?
And those people in yourcommunity I don't really like
that term, those people butthose individuals in your
(23:42):
community, you know how can Ihelp them and how can I target
them?
And I really think, prayerfully, consider God.
What do you want me to?
How do you want me to act?
What is my role in preventingsomeone's loneliness?
What's my role?
That's so good, yeah.
Kim McIntire (24:00):
Search your heart.
What if we were all doing that?
What if all believers werereally taking time to say God
like?
What role do I play in thiscrisis of suicide?
Daphne Hillhouse (24:13):
Well, and that's that is how we came about
to developing a training,taking the VA SAVE training and
developing a training that wasmeant for the conservative Bible
Belt church, because when we goto trainings that are focused
(24:38):
on clergy, you always see thesame type of churches and the
same type of churchgoer in thosetrainings and it wasn't the
people they don't represent, thepeople that we know there are
more of in the Bible Belt, whichis they're conservative
churches and they're thechurches that tend to not
(25:00):
mention the uncomfortable things.
And so we thought you know, wewere already in the business of
culture change around taking,talking about suicide, I mean
that's you're like turning theTitanic right, like no, and
because we're quickly come, Imean we've already hit the
glacier, like we're going down.
How are we going to turn around?
(25:21):
So the church, like, I think,taking on, how do we and, like I
already said, you know our team, it just it was a God thing
that we all came together tostart with, and then all five of
us will like be on board forthis, like nobody has to do it
alone.
But then to say, how are wegoing to change the culture of
(25:44):
the church too?
And you do that by being insidethe church.
That's why I went back to church.
I said how am I going to like?
I came out of a.
I was, I am Southern Baptist,I've been that way, I've been
raised in a Southern Baptistchurch, went to a Southern
Baptist college, but I got outof church because of being hurt
by church people, and so then Iwas like but how can I, how am I
(26:08):
going to, how am I going tochange, promote change, when
I've left this, these people inthis church, right.
And so that's what I got backinto.
Now, that doesn't mean I don'thave to put up with some things
that you put up with in a church, right, sure.
But you can start havingconversations that are tough and
encourage people, because whenyou're talking about it, other
(26:31):
people are like oh, thatperson's safe, I can go to them
and then, as the safe person,you can advocate for them.
Kim McIntire (26:39):
So true, and it's a domino effect, you know.
It really is in the best ofways.
You know.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthe support for, or the support
of, survivors.
Let's talk about that.
Their suicide leaves victims.
It's true my life's beentouched by it Not to the degree
(27:05):
that some have been, you know,but I lost a loved one.
I lost a loved one and it's notsomething that you really put
on the back burner or that youever forget or stop thinking
about.
How do you support survivorsLike, let's speak into that a
little bit, you guys, from yourprofessional you know just
(27:28):
counseling experience.
What are the best things we cando to support people who have
experienced that?
Daphne Hillhouse (27:35):
you can answer , but I will.
I am going to say that you'reright.
So the average, that a suicideon average affects 136 people,
oh my word for a lot of, for alot of people, for a lot of
times more than that.
But the average is.
So, even if that's anotherthing, if you're contemplating
suicide, you're really not alone, because statistics tell us at
(27:56):
least 135 people are going to beaffected by what happens to you
, whether that's the innercircle, like your immediate
family, or all the way out tothe barista you see every day at
Starbucks, like somebody'sgoing to be impacted by that.
Keli Keener (28:15):
Offering support looks like what I think you
support that person by beingthere, knowing that they have
grief right.
You know, offer them support bybeing there, practice
hospitality and also, you know,get them information about
what's going on in the community.
Your church may have a griefshare.
Your church may have a Biblestudy for grief right.
(28:39):
There's lots of communityresources.
Get them connected with thoseresources.
Let them again.
We don't want them to feelalone either, because they're
not alone in their grief.
Kim McIntire (28:48):
And I found personally that, although
sometimes human nature wouldwant to ignore or not talk about
the topic, with the personimpacted or affected, it's
really unhealthy to not talkabout it.
Keli Keener (29:08):
Right.
Kim McIntire (29:09):
Would you guys agree?
Yeah?
Keli Keener (29:10):
Yeah, you know, anytime you lose a loved one,
right, we check in on someone,right.
So even you know, when they dieby suicide, we still want to
check in with them.
We don't want to forget them.
Nobody wants their loved oneforgotten, right.
And so celebrating their livesright, celebrating the things
that were important to you, isreally important, and that's why
(29:31):
, if you can volunteer or attendan out-of-darkness walk, people
find a lot of healing there.
They go and they see otherpeople's struggles and then they
celebrate the lives of the onesthey lost and they're able to
share that person's story withyou.
And we all know that weovercome by the blood of the
(29:52):
lamb and the word of ourtestimony, right.
And so people are healing atthese events when they're
sharing their stories with eachother.
Daphne Hillhouse (29:59):
They wear the faces of their loved one on
their shirts.
Their teams are made up oftheir loved ones and we don't
grieve well, you know, anyway inour culture.
Don't grieve well, you know,anyway in our culture, and I
think that is something that isunique to those walks into that
culture is that they're grievingin an outward way.
(30:21):
And when we're talking aboutchurches and clergy making sure
that we're handling suicidememorials and funerals in a
really respectful way, I've seenpastors really screw it up by
trying to avoid the conversationthat we all know we all know
we're all sitting there.
We know how this happened.
(30:43):
There is really good guidancefrom the American Foundation for
Suicide Prevention and severalother places about how to
conduct one of those, becauseyou, you can create a wound in
someone who's just suffered ahuge loss.
If you don't handle one of thoseservices well and if you don't
feel equipped to do it, pass itoff to someone else because, um,
(31:06):
it can really cause prolongedgrief that that person's already
gonna to have complicated grief, so good, yeah, I mean just try
to find that and avoiding it.
I mean our team too, has hadsome major tragedy within our
own team in the past couple ofyears and what we've learned
(31:26):
about grief just among ourselves, you know, healthy individuals
that we are is making sure thatwe are celebrating the
anniversaries and talking aboutthe people not being afraid to
say remember when you told usthat story, or remember when, or
I bet your parent, sister,whatever would have really
(31:49):
enjoyed.
Don't avoid saying those thingsjust because that person's not
here anymore.
You have to be just you.
You don't.
Nobody wants to forget theirloved one.
It doesn't matter how they died.
You don't want to forget yourperson.
Kim McIntire (32:03):
So true, you guys have brought so much information
, knowledge, clarity to thisconversation and I'm really
thankful because I feel likeit's a conversation that needs
to be happening.
Are there any other thoughtsyou want to add to this
conversation?
Keli Keener (32:24):
I just definitely want to remind everybody of the
988 crisis line number and ifthey're a veteran they can call
988.
And when it answers, if theypush one, it'll go to a veteran
specific crisis line and thelocal VA will be notified so
that the local system can followup with them and offer those
resources that are closest tothem.
So it's really a great thingthat the partnership with the VA
(32:47):
and the 988 hotline number soI'm just real appreciative of
that partnership that happenedseveral years ago.
Daphne Hillhouse (32:54):
And every country and we can provide that
link to you for you to put inyour notes.
But every country, every majorcountry around the world has a
suicide hotline and they helpall kinds of people.
They have all kinds of training.
Keli Keener (33:28):
They have cultural specific training.
Daphne Hillhouse (33:29):
But remembering that number, and
then you know it's very easy toto search VA suicide great
community of thousands ofsuicide prevention staff who are
always willing to help you.
Whether it's information aboutveteran services and swag that
has 988 all over it, or even ifit's not veteran, they will find
that for you.
Kim McIntire (33:49):
Okay, that's so good.
I'm glad you said that aboutother countries, because Rise Up
actually is international.
It is.
We have, I think, 16international countries that are
listening to the podcast andthat's super encouraging because
the message is going beyond theborders of our country and this
is a situation that the entireworld is dealing with.
(34:13):
It's not just an issue for theUnited States.
That's right, america.
Keli Keener (34:17):
And I think we have to remember.
You know, whether you've lostsomeone due to suicide, or you
have had suicide attempts oryour, you know your mental
health is declining, whateverthe situation is.
I just want to remind that theLord is close to the
brokenhearted Amen.
He's so close and so reach outand love someone.
Kim McIntire (34:40):
Yeah.
Keli Keener (34:41):
Because we are the hands and feet of Jesus.
Kim McIntire (34:43):
He heals the brokenhearted and he binds up
their wounds.
It's a beautiful woman whotaught me how to sing, who
(35:04):
taught me how to sing harmony onthe piano bench, who had the
best laugh and the best smile ofanyone I've ever known.
Who had the best laugh and thebest smile of anyone I've ever
known would give anyone theshirt off of her own back, would
never let anyone go hungry.
You never left her house.
You're her house hungry.
(35:26):
She loved with all of her heart.
She didn't know how much she wasloved, but I just want to
dedicate this episode to her, mysweet aunt, who I still love so
much and I'm so thankful forthe life that she did live, and
(35:48):
I just felt that was appropriateto speak.
It has touched my life, it'stouched my whole family and this
topic is very close to my heartand you guys don't know what it
means to me that you said yesto come and just share all of
this information, because I knowthere are families and friends
(36:08):
and community churches that needto hear this message.
So thank you both so much.
I really appreciate your time.
Thank you, friends andcommunity churches that need to
hear this message.
So thank you both so much.
I really appreciate your time.
Thank you for taking your timeto listen to our podcast.
We would love to hear yourfeedback.
Please rate, review or leave afive-star review on Apple
Podcast.
May God's grace and peace bewith you all, in Jesus name.
Hey everyone, welcome to the it's Time to Rise
Up podcast.
I'm your host, Kim McIntire.
We know there are so manythings you can do with your time
, so we want to thank you forchoosing to spend your time
listening.
We pray you are encouraged andblessed by what is shared today.
If you're not familiar with ourshow, please check out our
website at itstimetoriseup.
org.
There you will find our socialmedia links and for our podcast
(00:33):
platforms you can find us onYouTube, apple Podcasts, spotify
and everywhere else you findyour podcast.
We are excited to announce thatthe Abide Study is now
available on Amazon and BarnesNoble.
The link to order is found inour show notes.
The Abide Study is currentlythe discipleship piece of the
Rise Up Movement.
There's more about that on ourwebsite.
(00:55):
But let's get to today'sepisode.
I want to welcome into thestudio Keli Keener and Daphne
Hillhouse.
I'm so glad you ladies are withus today.
Thank you for being here.
Awesome Thanks for having us.
You are so welcome.
They are here to talk aboutSeptember being Suicide
Prevention Month.
If you or anyone you know areexperiencing suicidal thoughts,
(01:19):
dial 988.
That is the suicide preventioncrisis line number and we just
want to encourage that.
Keep that number tucked intoyour mind.
You never know when you comeacross someone who may need that
information Again.
(01:39):
I'm so honored to have you bothhere today to talk about
suicide awareness.
But before we get into thattopic, would you tell us a
little bit about yourselves?
Keli, you've been a previousguest before You're on our lead
team.
You manage benevolence for ourconference.
And just remind the listeners alittle bit about yourself.
Keli Keener (01:53):
Well, I'm Keli Keener.
I've been part of Rise Up for acouple years now, and so I'm
just coming alongside the teamto bring hope into our
communities, and so that's areally big part of my heart.
My husband and I have beenmarried for over 30 years.
We have three children and fourgrandchildren, and I have a
heart for serving in the church,and that's kind of moved on to
(02:17):
serving our communities andcommunities that have been
marginalized by some, and sothat's good, which brought me to
being a social worker.
So I've been a clinical socialworker in the social work field
for over 20 years, and so that'sabout the gist of me.
Kim McIntire (02:35):
Okay, thank you, Daphne.
How about you Tell us a little?
Daphne Hillhouse (02:37):
about yourself .
Hi, I'm Daphne Hillhouse.
I am Keli's co-worker for aboutsix or seven years now.
We've known each other for awhile.
I'm also been married about tenyears and have a stepson who is
18 and a six-year-old littledaughter, who is my mini-me
(03:01):
Totally ridiculous.
We'll have her own podcast oneday.
For sure.
That's awesome and uh, likeKeli, I mean, I think we wound
up working with a team of peoplewho, uh, we came in to social
work as a ministry.
Uh, we, of course, we're notworking within the church making
(03:23):
money, we're working outsidewithin the church making money.
We're working outside of thechurch, but still in ministry,
and I think that's reallyfoundational to our team and the
choices that we've made, wherewe put our energies, our efforts
.
For sure, yeah, that's so good.
Kim McIntire (03:59):
Yeah, that's so good.
Well, we were talking some timeback, Keli, about your heart
for just raising awareness inour community and our churches
about this issue.
Really, that is crisis in ourcommunity and our nation the
crisis of suicide.
And what role does the churchhave, what role does the
community have in helping?
And really you're here to speakinto that and that's your field
and you've worked a lot withveterans, right?
Yes, so I guess, because I knowthat's your background, let's
talk about what the VA does tohelp prevent suicide.
(04:25):
Can we just start there?
Yeah, sure, Daphne.
Keli Keener (04:27):
Why don't you kind of talk about your role first?
Daphne Hillhouse (04:31):
I've been in this role of suicide prevention,
working with veterans, forabout nine years.
The VA has a really amazingservices directed toward
veterans in the suicide space,if you will.
It's not something that'sreplicated in other health care
(04:52):
systems.
So every VA has a dedicatedteam for preventing suicide.
So that can look like providingcase management for people who
are very high risk for suicide.
It can also, for us, meansdoing things like this media
training our communities,training our staff for sure,
(05:15):
creating policies that make surewe're providing all kinds of
safety and services andscreening for our veterans, as
well as doing outreach, somaking sure that people
understand 988 is there 24-7,365, it's not going away, and
that veterans specifically candial one after they've dialed
(05:37):
988 to go to VA staff to talk.
So that's a really big part ofwhat we do as well, as we were
kind of the advertisement forthe veterans crisis line.
That's so good.
Kim McIntire (05:50):
Wow.
What about, um, when we'rethinking more in regard to
church and community, becauseyou guys are associated with va
and those systems are in place.
When it comes to just being amember of the community, when it
comes to just being a part ofthe local church, whether you're
(06:13):
here locally in the JoplinMissouri area or anywhere all
over the nation, where do youbegin?
When it comes to prevention andhelp?
Keli Keener (06:23):
Well, our heart is to educate the church, the
church leadership, the clergy inthe church, the importance of
suicide prevention training fortheir staff, for any leaders
inside the church, and so wespecifically have a clergy
training that we can do forthose leadership names
(06:44):
churchgoers.
There's statistics that says49% of pastors suffer from
mental illness, themselves somesort of mental illness, and 47%
of Americans say they attend achurch and they have a
membership to a church.
So we know that's a huge partof our population in America is
(07:07):
the churchgoers, and so if wecan educate churchgoers and
their leadership on the need forsuicide prevention, then we are
conquering a section ofpopulation that maybe we haven't
reached in the past.
Kim McIntire (07:22):
For sure.
And if a church is wanting thattraining for their staff, like,
what resource is there?
Like how do they get connectedwith this training?
Keli Keener (07:48):
trained staff that will do an Operation Save
training in the communities.
But also there are suicideprevention grants in the
community that will also dosuicide prevention for agencies,
for individuals.
So there's a lot ofopportunities.
Daphne Hillhouse (07:58):
Daphne, I know through the VA we have grants
that are in the community toinclude a community engagement,
have grants that are in thecommunity to include a community
engagement and any area mentalhealth agency or the American
Foundation for SuicidePrevention.
Really, you could probably putyour town suicide prevention
(08:22):
training and it's going to pullup agencies that will provide
trainings.
They have all kinds of acronyms, just like we have VA SAVE.
They're all kind of acronyms.
Qpr is very common question,persuade refer.
None of these.
They're all very generic.
They don't.
They're not.
You know we all have, we're allhuman.
So there's all a.
(08:43):
There's a base there that, nomatter which one you choose to
do, which one's going to fit youin terms of how long it takes I
mean because QPR might take anhour and a half to talk about,
where there's a CIS trainingthat takes like eight hours.
So no matter what you choose,you then as a congregation or
(09:03):
leadership, you take it and youadapt it to your, your
population.
You're the people that you'reserving, because all of them
just have that baseline of thisis how we talk about suicide and
prevent suicide.
So they're all adaptable towhatever you need.
Kim McIntire (09:22):
So it's not difficult to find those
resources if you have a heart tofind them right.
So it's not difficult to findthose resources.
Daphne Hillhouse (09:28):
If you have a heart to find them right,
they're available.
Yeah, in the US it should notbe hard.
Now we do have.
Obviously, one of the toolsthat we use at the VA to screen
is called the Columbia SuicideSeverity Rating Scale, and we
teach that as part of ourtrainings, because it is a
(09:49):
screen, a screener made for thecommunity.
It wasn't made for clinicians,it's made for just parents and
police.
That is a a screener that hasbeen used worldwide.
It is peer-reviewed and hasbeen tried all over the world.
So I would say that's the goldstandard.
Um, and none of, but none ofthese things have.
There's not going to be anemphasis on any kind of
spirituality of one side versusthe other.
(10:11):
They're all very neutral.
So I think that's important.
Choosing one is just justchoose one.
Yeah, okay.
Kim McIntire (10:19):
So what about when it comes to just personal
relationships, and maybe you'rein relationship with someone or
connected to someone that youfeel is struggling with suicidal
ideations, or maybe even theymake comments about life's not
(10:40):
worth living?
I mean, I've heard people saythat and you kind of wonder okay
, how serious are they with thatstatement?
Someone said that to me acouple of weeks ago.
I was just prayer walking in myneighborhood and a neighbor
just was basically saying I justfeel like I'm in a hopeless
situation and there's not reallyan answer.
I don't know why I'm here.
Those kind of comments cancause one to wonder is this
(11:06):
person at risk for suicide?
So how could one of you speakinto that?
Are there ways, as a friend ora neighbor or a family member,
that you can have an alertnessor an awareness that this isn't
just someone venting becausethey're frustrated in the moment
?
Right, because we've all said.
I've said things like why am Ieven here?
You know I wasn't thinkingabout suicide.
(11:27):
Do you know what I mean?
But there, there there is aline where obviously it is.
It is an ideation.
Can you guys give us someinsight on how to know the
difference?
Daphne Hillhouse (11:39):
I don't think you have to know the difference.
I think we just we start withtaking every comment seriously,
because even you you're like itwas kind of a flippant thing and
like I don't even know why I'mhere.
There was still some stress oranxiety that you're feeling at
that point, or else you wouldn'thave said it right.
So maybe you're not at thepoint of even thinking about
taking your life, but you're atthe point where you're like I
(12:02):
need someone to help me, I needsomeone to talk to me, and
really we can give a big list ofrisk factors for suicide.
There's a big list.
I mean it's not A plus B equalsC.
It's not that easy or we wouldget rid of suicide, right.
But it's like, if you thebiggest, when I look at this big
(12:22):
list, all of them are connectedto and to loneliness.
And so if you every single oneof them financial problems,
substance abuse, you knowretirement is a big time that
people think about suicidebecause you've lost your whole
social group, you know you'velost all these, your mission and
purpose, and so anything comesback to loneliness.
(12:44):
So a person that is saying toyou I don't know what there's
left to live for.
What they're saying is I just,I need relationship, and I think
that's the biggest, becauseloneliness is the biggest risk
factor.
Social supports, familysupports, sitting and talking
with someone, having someone tolisten to you, is going to be
(13:07):
the biggest protective factor.
So you don't have to have anytraining or have any kind of
special discernment.
I guess you just listen.
Keli Keener (13:17):
And I think you directly ask are you thinking
about killing yourself, are youthinking about suicide?
I think that direct questionlets someone be seen and heard,
and I know there's some stigmato asking that.
People are like, oh, I don'twant to give them that thought
if they're not having thatthought.
That doesn't give them thethought if they're not having
the thought.
It's showing that they arebeing cared for, and so it's
(13:40):
really important just to ask thequestion, and we are not asking
untrained people to provide anintervention for someone that's
having suicidal thoughts, butjust to know how to get them
help and how can I support them.
I'm going to continue to betheir friend.
I'm going to continue to calland check on them.
If I know there's times thatthey're more depressed, I'm
going to make sure I make anextra effort.
(14:00):
You're going to be a friend,just like you were anyways,
right yeah.
Kim McIntire (14:05):
Yeah, that's so good.
I'm wondering if anyone islistening now and they're a
listener who is in a situationwhere they feel like they don't
want to live, and we've given anumber for them to call right.
988 is a crisis line.
(14:27):
It's 365 days a year, 24 hoursa day.
It's going to be available.
Holidays and weekends, Holidaysand weekends right.
What more could you speak intothem If someone's listening and
they're experiencing, other thancall the crisis line?
What could we speak into themnow?
Because I feel like there maybe someone who just needs a word
of hope.
Keli Keener (14:48):
I mean, I really believe that people that are
suffering, they feel likethey're suffering alone, right,
it's that isolation.
And then sometimes we isolatemore because of that right and
everything leads us to continuethis cycle of isolation.
And I think that the more thatwe can support someone, when we
(15:11):
see someone in our churches orwe see someone in the groups
that we attend and we invitethem, we see that they're
isolating.
I think, noticing the one we'vetalked about this in Rise Up a
lot notice the one and so noticethose individuals that maybe
are isolating or you're seeingdifferences.
You know we're not expectingyou to be the intervention or
the one that walks them throughthis, through every little thing
(15:34):
, right, but to get them help.
You know, if they are saying,yes, I'm suicidal, know how to
get them help.
You can call 988.
You can take them to thenearest ER.
So there's ways to offer help,right, support them, you know,
ask questions, get to know thembetter.
Daphne Hillhouse (15:50):
Yeah for sure, I think someone, if someone's
listening and Kelly said this ifsomeone's listening now and is
feeling that way, I think thepoint is you're not alone,
that's right.
Every person and we stress thiswhen we talk with the staff
that we train and with anyone.
(16:10):
I mean we train police officers, you know, and we look at the
heroes of our country, quote,unquote Right, whether it's been
, I would be better off dead,so-and-so would be better off
without me.
I would quit hurting everyone.
I can't overcome this addiction.
(16:31):
I'm never going to dig out ofthis hole.
Everybody has felt that way.
Additionally, most of us haveprobably thought about how we
would kill ourselves.
I mean, what would be theeasiest way?
What would be the way that myfamily wouldn't have to find me?
We've all thought that, and Ithink the evil of suicide and
(16:54):
the bad part of the of of mentalillness is that it makes you
feel like you're alone.
Right, and it when, when webelieve that it starts to win.
And so, even if you'rephysically sitting alone
somewhere, you're not alone.
There are people within arm'sreach that have felt the way
(17:18):
that you do, and that's why wehave all this help and that's
why there's people wanting tohelp you.
You just have to find thatright person, because I know it
is a lot of people's experiencethat they'll call up a friend
and that friend says the wrongthing, like they just say
something that's just sooff-putting and they're like,
see, I don't need to be here andthat's just wrong place, wrong
(17:41):
time.
Sure, you know there are peoplewanting and I think that's why
988 is a good place to start.
Not stop, but start, becauseit's somebody that that's what
they're there.
Kim McIntire (17:51):
Absolutely.
They're there, for that's such,that's such good advice, such
good wisdom.
Let's talk just a little bitmore about training and
partnerships between churches,community and mental health
organizations.
I know there are some mentalhealth organizations in most
local communities.
What are some that you guys arefamiliar with that churches
(18:12):
could reach out and connect to?
Daphne Hillhouse (18:15):
So you're going to most areas are going to
have the most common kind offederally funded community
mental health centers that youcan find by a simple Google
search.
You're probably alreadyfamiliar with those there's.
Also you're going to findgovernment agencies.
(18:38):
So there's going to be a VAclinic, there's going to be a
tribal clinic or hospital Healthdepartments a lot of times will
have resources for suicide andthe tribes, I think have worked
more and more on suicideprevention, kind of following
(18:58):
this path of understanding thatsuicide is a health issue
concern.
It's not a mental health issue.
Most people who die by suicidedon't have never had a diagnosed
mental health problem, so it'smore of a health issue and
that's why we screen and talkabout it in all kinds of areas
(19:18):
and not just in mental healthclinics, right, but I think it's
easy to connect to those peopleand then finding community
events that are alreadyhappening.
It is very common around thecountry to find out of the
darkness walks which are put onby the American Foundation for
(19:38):
Suicide Prevention.
So those are happening all overthe place.
You just have to go to theirwebsite and you can always
volunteer at those, have boothsat those.
Churches are always verywelcome to those events.
Nami, which is National Allianceof Mental Illness, thank you.
(19:58):
They have their own kind ofwalks as well, but they also
have support groups that peoplecan be part of or can lead.
So those are two really goodorganizations to just get
involved in and see how thechurch can fit into those that
are already there and is it truethat I don't know if it's
(20:19):
called NAMI?
Kim McIntire (20:20):
is it NAMI?
Is that how you say it?
Is it true that that is aresource for family members who
are experiencing who they'remaybe their sibling or parent or
child or friend is dealing withmental illness but it helps
them to know how to cope and howto function in that
(20:40):
relationship in a way that ishealthier?
Yes, and without that support?
Okay, because I feel like afriend of mine once had told me
she'd gone to that support groupbecause her sister was
suffering with bipolar and I'mpretty sure that's the
organization and she said it wasincredible just the advice and
counsel they were giving abouthow to handle some conflicts,
(21:00):
you know, with someone who'sstruggling with mental illness
and you want to have peace inyour relationships as much as
you can, and she was talkingabout how beneficial that was.
So even as a family member whois just wanting to know how can
I navigate relationship well ina peaceable way if my family
member or friend is strugglingwith mental illness?
(21:21):
So maybe that's even a side ofthe coin we haven't talked about
that might be important.
Keli Keener (21:26):
I think so, and I think also, you know, churches
have programs for substanceabuse.
They have, like you know, wecelebrate recovery and living
free ministries, and so there'sministries there to get involved
in Whether you identify ashaving those kind of problems or
those issues in your life.
Go there and be a support,learn.
Maybe you have a heart forpeople who's lost someone by
(21:48):
suicide and so you want tosupport them.
Start a Bible studies, juststart a group.
I mean, whatever your heartleads you to do, just start it.
Go to your church leadership,Because I would really think
that if you're thinking about it, there's others thinking about
it too.
Oh for sure.
Daphne Hillhouse (22:17):
And so just sometimes it just needs to be
sparked.
Oh for sure, those thingssecretive still and when we're
willing to address theunmentionable, when we're
willing to address those fromthe pulpit or from a group or
from you know, and I think, wheneven in a small town I live in
(22:39):
a small town and celebraterecovery, we have those.
But one of the hard thingsabout it is getting people to
provide child care while someonegoes and engages in that group.
So maybe you're like I don'tthink I can sit in that group,
Take care of some kids, Makesome food.
That's good.
I mean, it doesn't have to be.
All of us have a differentlevel or a different comfort.
Keli Keener (23:01):
There's so many people with the gift of
hospitality.
As you're talking, I'm like, ohmy gosh, that's the perfect
place for someone with the giftof hospitality to come alongside
a group and say I can bakecookies or I can make a
casserole, or I can, you knowyou have gifts and talents, yeah
, or someone who loves kids.
Kim McIntire (23:16):
Be like I could take one evening a week or a
month to go and play withchildren.
Keli Keener (23:22):
You know, so I think that's a good reminder.
When you're planning to dosomething.
Look at the whole family system, Like, who are you targeting?
Yes, there's an individual thatneeds connection, but maybe
they're a part of a biggersystem, Like they have children,
or maybe they're caring forelderly parents, right?
So what is your system?
And those people in yourcommunity I don't really like
that term, those people butthose individuals in your
(23:42):
community, you know how can Ihelp them and how can I target
them?
And I really think, prayerfully, consider God.
What do you want me to?
How do you want me to act?
What is my role in preventingsomeone's loneliness?
What's my role?
That's so good, yeah.
Kim McIntire (24:00):
Search your heart.
What if we were all doing that?
What if all believers werereally taking time to say God
like?
What role do I play in thiscrisis of suicide?
Daphne Hillhouse (24:13):
Well, and that's that is how we came about
to developing a training,taking the VA SAVE training and
developing a training that wasmeant for the conservative Bible
Belt church, because when we goto trainings that are focused
(24:38):
on clergy, you always see thesame type of churches and the
same type of churchgoer in thosetrainings and it wasn't the
people they don't represent, thepeople that we know there are
more of in the Bible Belt, whichis they're conservative
churches and they're thechurches that tend to not
(25:00):
mention the uncomfortable things.
And so we thought you know, wewere already in the business of
culture change around taking,talking about suicide, I mean
that's you're like turning theTitanic right, like no, and
because we're quickly come, Imean we've already hit the
glacier, like we're going down.
How are we going to turn around?
(25:21):
So the church, like, I think,taking on, how do we and, like I
already said, you know our team, it just it was a God thing
that we all came together tostart with, and then all five of
us will like be on board forthis, like nobody has to do it
alone.
But then to say, how are wegoing to change the culture of
(25:44):
the church too?
And you do that by being insidethe church.
That's why I went back to church.
I said how am I going to like?
I came out of a.
I was, I am Southern Baptist,I've been that way, I've been
raised in a Southern Baptistchurch, went to a Southern
Baptist college, but I got outof church because of being hurt
by church people, and so then Iwas like but how can I, how am I
(26:08):
going to, how am I going tochange, promote change, when
I've left this, these people inthis church, right.
And so that's what I got backinto.
Now, that doesn't mean I don'thave to put up with some things
that you put up with in a church, right, sure.
But you can start havingconversations that are tough and
encourage people, because whenyou're talking about it, other
(26:31):
people are like oh, thatperson's safe, I can go to them
and then, as the safe person,you can advocate for them.
Kim McIntire (26:39):
So true, and it's a domino effect, you know.
It really is in the best ofways.
You know.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthe support for, or the support
of, survivors.
Let's talk about that.
Their suicide leaves victims.
It's true my life's beentouched by it Not to the degree
(27:05):
that some have been, you know,but I lost a loved one.
I lost a loved one and it's notsomething that you really put
on the back burner or that youever forget or stop thinking
about.
How do you support survivorsLike, let's speak into that a
little bit, you guys, from yourprofessional you know just
(27:28):
counseling experience.
What are the best things we cando to support people who have
experienced that?
Daphne Hillhouse (27:35):
you can answer , but I will.
I am going to say that you'reright.
So the average, that a suicideon average affects 136 people,
oh my word for a lot of, for alot of people, for a lot of
times more than that.
But the average is.
So, even if that's anotherthing, if you're contemplating
suicide, you're really not alone, because statistics tell us at
(27:56):
least 135 people are going to beaffected by what happens to you
, whether that's the innercircle, like your immediate
family, or all the way out tothe barista you see every day at
Starbucks, like somebody'sgoing to be impacted by that.
Keli Keener (28:15):
Offering support looks like what I think you
support that person by beingthere, knowing that they have
grief right.
You know, offer them support bybeing there, practice
hospitality and also, you know,get them information about
what's going on in the community.
Your church may have a griefshare.
Your church may have a Biblestudy for grief right.
(28:39):
There's lots of communityresources.
Get them connected with thoseresources.
Let them again.
We don't want them to feelalone either, because they're
not alone in their grief.
Kim McIntire (28:48):
And I found personally that, although
sometimes human nature wouldwant to ignore or not talk about
the topic, with the personimpacted or affected, it's
really unhealthy to not talkabout it.
Keli Keener (29:08):
Right.
Kim McIntire (29:09):
Would you guys agree?
Yeah?
Keli Keener (29:10):
Yeah, you know, anytime you lose a loved one,
right, we check in on someone,right.
So even you know, when they dieby suicide, we still want to
check in with them.
We don't want to forget them.
Nobody wants their loved oneforgotten, right.
And so celebrating their livesright, celebrating the things
that were important to you, isreally important, and that's why
(29:31):
, if you can volunteer or attendan out-of-darkness walk, people
find a lot of healing there.
They go and they see otherpeople's struggles and then they
celebrate the lives of the onesthey lost and they're able to
share that person's story withyou.
And we all know that weovercome by the blood of the
(29:52):
lamb and the word of ourtestimony, right.
And so people are healing atthese events when they're
sharing their stories with eachother.
Daphne Hillhouse (29:59):
They wear the faces of their loved one on
their shirts.
Their teams are made up oftheir loved ones and we don't
grieve well, you know, anyway inour culture.
Don't grieve well, you know,anyway in our culture, and I
think that is something that isunique to those walks into that
culture is that they're grievingin an outward way.
(30:21):
And when we're talking aboutchurches and clergy making sure
that we're handling suicidememorials and funerals in a
really respectful way, I've seenpastors really screw it up by
trying to avoid the conversationthat we all know we all know
we're all sitting there.
We know how this happened.
(30:43):
There is really good guidancefrom the American Foundation for
Suicide Prevention and severalother places about how to
conduct one of those, becauseyou, you can create a wound in
someone who's just suffered ahuge loss.
If you don't handle one of thoseservices well and if you don't
feel equipped to do it, pass itoff to someone else because, um,
(31:06):
it can really cause prolongedgrief that that person's already
gonna to have complicated grief, so good, yeah, I mean just try
to find that and avoiding it.
I mean our team too, has hadsome major tragedy within our
own team in the past couple ofyears and what we've learned
(31:26):
about grief just among ourselves, you know, healthy individuals
that we are is making sure thatwe are celebrating the
anniversaries and talking aboutthe people not being afraid to
say remember when you told usthat story, or remember when, or
I bet your parent, sister,whatever would have really
(31:49):
enjoyed.
Don't avoid saying those thingsjust because that person's not
here anymore.
You have to be just you.
You don't.
Nobody wants to forget theirloved one.
It doesn't matter how they died.
You don't want to forget yourperson.
Kim McIntire (32:03):
So true, you guys have brought so much information
, knowledge, clarity to thisconversation and I'm really
thankful because I feel likeit's a conversation that needs
to be happening.
Are there any other thoughtsyou want to add to this
conversation?
Keli Keener (32:24):
I just definitely want to remind everybody of the
988 crisis line number and ifthey're a veteran they can call
988.
And when it answers, if theypush one, it'll go to a veteran
specific crisis line and thelocal VA will be notified so
that the local system can followup with them and offer those
resources that are closest tothem.
So it's really a great thingthat the partnership with the VA
(32:47):
and the 988 hotline number soI'm just real appreciative of
that partnership that happenedseveral years ago.
Daphne Hillhouse (32:54):
And every country and we can provide that
link to you for you to put inyour notes.
But every country, every majorcountry around the world has a
suicide hotline and they helpall kinds of people.
They have all kinds of training.
Keli Keener (33:28):
They have cultural specific training.
Daphne Hillhouse (33:29):
But remembering that number, and
then you know it's very easy toto search VA suicide great
community of thousands ofsuicide prevention staff who are
always willing to help you.
Whether it's information aboutveteran services and swag that
has 988 all over it, or even ifit's not veteran, they will find
that for you.
Kim McIntire (33:49):
Okay, that's so good.
I'm glad you said that aboutother countries, because Rise Up
actually is international.
It is.
We have, I think, 16international countries that are
listening to the podcast andthat's super encouraging because
the message is going beyond theborders of our country and this
is a situation that the entireworld is dealing with.
(34:13):
It's not just an issue for theUnited States.
That's right, america.
Keli Keener (34:17):
And I think we have to remember.
You know, whether you've lostsomeone due to suicide, or you
have had suicide attempts oryour, you know your mental
health is declining, whateverthe situation is.
I just want to remind that theLord is close to the
brokenhearted Amen.
He's so close and so reach outand love someone.
Kim McIntire (34:40):
Yeah.
Keli Keener (34:41):
Because we are the hands and feet of Jesus.
Kim McIntire (34:43):
He heals the brokenhearted and he binds up
their wounds.
It's a beautiful woman whotaught me how to sing, who
(35:04):
taught me how to sing harmony onthe piano bench, who had the
best laugh and the best smile ofanyone I've ever known.
Who had the best laugh and thebest smile of anyone I've ever
known would give anyone theshirt off of her own back, would
never let anyone go hungry.
You never left her house.
You're her house hungry.
(35:26):
She loved with all of her heart.
She didn't know how much she wasloved, but I just want to
dedicate this episode to her, mysweet aunt, who I still love so
much and I'm so thankful forthe life that she did live, and
(35:48):
I just felt that was appropriateto speak.
It has touched my life, it'stouched my whole family and this
topic is very close to my heartand you guys don't know what it
means to me that you said yesto come and just share all of
this information, because I knowthere are families and friends
(36:08):
and community churches that needto hear this message.
So thank you both so much.
I really appreciate your time.
Thank you, friends andcommunity churches that need to
hear this message.
So thank you both so much.
I really appreciate your time.
Thank you for taking your timeto listen to our podcast.
We would love to hear yourfeedback.
Please rate, review or leave afive-star review on Apple
Podcast.
May God's grace and peace bewith you all, in Jesus name.
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