June 17, 2022 • 23 mins
In This Episode:
Dr. Stacee and Dr. Caitlin chat with Dr. Shadi Ireifej from VetTriage about how using technology can help you see more patients in a day and help offload some of the workload from your staff.
Listen in to get some great tips you can implement in your practice today!
More Shadi Ireifej from VetTriage:
Shadi J. Ireifej DVM DACVS graduated from the State University of New York at Binghamton where he received his Bachelor of Science degree in Biology (2001, Magna cum laude). He then attended Cornell University where he received his Doctor of Veterinary Medicine degree (2006, DVM).
In 2020, Dr. Ireifej changed gears in his already illustrious career, finding a novel and state-of-the-art means of reaching concerned pet owners and their ill pets worldwide, VetTriage. Dr. Ireifej currently serves as their Chief Medical Officer.
Shadi has been published in scientific and medical journals and enjoys lecturing to a variety of audiences. He is known for being a positive force and energetic force, both professionally and personally.
View Dr. Shadi's full bio HERE
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Stacee (00:03):
Welcome to #IVETSOHARD, technology and
workflows that really work thenot so serious podcast for
seriously busy veterinary teamsbrought to you by Vet2Pet.
Dr. Caitlin (00:13):
Listen for quick fun interviews with veterinary
professionals, who've retrievedand actually held onto their
sanity, happiness, and successby learning a few new tricks and
embracing efficient processesthat actually work.
Dr. Stacee (00:26):
I'm Dr.
Stacee Santi
Dr. Caitlin (00:28):
And I'm Dr.
Caitlin Dewilde,
Dr. Stacee (00:30):
And this is #IVETSOHARD.
Hey guys, I'm Really excited tobring to you a n ew guest today.
I had the pleasure of meeting Dr.
Shadi Ireifej recently fromVetTriage.
And I was so impressed with whathe had to offer.
I had to have him be a guest,not only does he have an amazing
(00:53):
technology platform aim to helpveterinarians, but he is also a
veterinarian, which is myfavorite, u h, Caitlin.
A nd I love when we findveterinarians making amazing
changes for the profession.
Yeah.
We obviously love to findveterinarians who are as nerdy,
as technology as we are anddouble whammy.
If they have a really greatpurpose and goal behind their
(01:17):
work.
So without further ado, D r.
Shadi tell the group aboutyourself and k ind of how you
got your idea for VetTriage.
Dr. Shadi (01:27):
Thank you very much for having me on this is an
absolute honor.
Uh, my name is Dr.
Shadi Ireifej.
I'm a board certified veterinarysurgeon.
I graduated from Cornelluniversity in 2006.
Uh, I went through my first yearinternship at angel in, uh,
Boston then did two surgicalinternships followed by a
surgical residency at longisland.
Veterinary specialist became aboard certified veterinary
surgeon since then went off myown with various surgical
(01:50):
accomplishments from thereworking around the country, and
then finally launched VetTriage.
The end of 2019, the premisebehind vet triage was actually
fairly simple.
Uh, I had to begin working onthis project maybe seven or
eight years prior.
I noticed that in the ERspecialty world, the front desk
staff would handle hundreds ofphone calls.
(02:11):
Every 24 hours of clientsasking, is this an emergency or
not?
Do I have to come in?
Should I be worried?
And we all know that over thephone, they can't give that sort
of medical advice.
They're not medically trained.
And the only, our only answerreally for our decades was if
you're concerned, come in, ifyou're concerned, come in.
So I thought, boy, that's fairlylame.
We can do better than that.
And not knowing what's calledtelemedicine.
(02:32):
I thought, you know what, if youcreate a whole business model
around that concept, give folksaccess to veterinarians without
having to come in to answer thatvery question that started off
the, um, chase both legally tofigure out what we can do on
ethical grounds, as well astechnologically to figure out
how we create our own videoplatform to, to make this move
(02:54):
forward.
And because we're veterinaryowned and I've worked at every
facet of the veterinary field GP, ER, specialty rescue, um, and
managed departments ownedhospitals, did all that stuff.
I figured, you know, we can, wecan, we can do this and have the
veterinary culture in mind.
And so that's from that Vetriwas, was born.
We had no idea.
(03:15):
The pandemic was a few monthsaway after launch.
Um, whether that helped us orhurt us.
I'm not sure, but telemedicinehas become a common, common
place name now in, uh, inhouseholds.
So
Dr. Stacee (03:28):
Yeah, so you, you launched this before the
pandemic, so you were alreadytotally open to shaking up the
workflow and, uh, making peoplethink of different ways to be
more efficient and not hatetheir job is what you're saying.
Dr. Shadi (03:44):
Anybody who's been profession long enough knows
that we, for some reason, well,for many reasons, actually we
become quite complacent.
Our, our regulations aresomewhat antiquated.
The folks running the show onmedical boards and organizations
are freely antiquated.
We need new blood.
Um, and then when you look atgenerational changes, you know,
(04:07):
the gen X millennial, then genZ, that has to be account for as
well.
Then of course you have accessto care issues or countless
cultural problems.
So all of that has to be dealtwith, and we've been doing the
same old crap for decadesrunning the depression to the
ground.
The pandemics certainly didaccelerate that the generation,
(04:28):
um, but it was gonna happenanyway.
And I saw that before as anintern, I saw that that the
cultural toxicity that wasrampant throughout these
institutions.
So this gives us an opportunityto try and fix those things and
increase access to caresimultaneously.
Dr. Stacee (04:41):
So why do you think the culture is so in practice?
Dr. Shadi (04:45):
Mm-hmm,,
there's many reasons for it and
you can divide it up intoprobably the veterinarian's
fault and then pet owner'sfault.
Um, on the veterinary side ofthings, you have fairly obvious
issues.
The, um, the wages that LVTs andassistants and receptionists
received, they're very long,strenuous work hours, working
(05:09):
hours after the shift ends,skipping lunch breaks, never
going on vacation, feeling badabout calling out sick, right,
et cetera.
Then you have veterinarians whoinherently are managers,
although we're not trained thatway.
Some are inherently good at it.
Most are not, it's not, it's notintuitive.
So we're not really trained tobe business owners managers.
So you have that aspect to it.
(05:30):
We tend to hire management stafflike HR staff, for example, or
management of kennel help ortechnicians by just promoting
people who are already there asopposed to hiring people from
the outside that have actualdegrees in this.
Those are some examples of that.
Then of course, what suffersfrom there is your staff suffers
(05:53):
the quality to, uh, care suffersand it's not sustainable.
Then you end up getting turnover, um, suicides, all the ugly
stuff that we're seeing on theclient side of things.
And this ties into social media.
It appears to be that there is alot more of the helicopter
parent when it comes to petsgoing, that's much more of a, a
(06:16):
commonplace aspect to it.
You have social media.
So it gives clients the, theavenue, the tools to be able to
on that practice where thingsdid not go well, or it was too
expensive for them.
And so they view the hospitalsbeing money hungry.
Mm-hmm, um, it's,it's a problem mm-hmm
and, and, and, andthat aspect to it is what
happens when you combine healthwith a service industry, right?
(06:39):
You can't just focus on themedicine because you have a
service industry as well.
And so those clients expect notonly perfect medicine, which
doesn't always happen, but theyalso expect an elite amount of
service, which is like, boy,you're not a hotel, it's a
hospital.
And so trying to marry those twoworlds can be done, many have
done it successfully, but it'svery, very difficult.
And sometimes you sacrifice theculture for that.
(07:01):
So that's just a sampling ofwhat we could go into with
regards to why the culture is sopoor.
And then that's just on thataspect.
You can also attack the academiatoo and say, well, how are they
contributing to this badculture?
Cuz they are maybe unknowingly,but they're also contributing to
this.
So there's that there's there'seven before prevet there's
issues there as well.
Dr. Stacee (07:23):
I think, I think you're describing what I call
the intersection of like heartand commerce.
Like we play in this area it'sso dangerous.
Like it's, we're day in, day outin this area, this arena, if you
will.
And I think when we employ adopttechnology solutions, we can at
(07:44):
least take some load off.
Is that kind of how you got youridea?
Dr. Shadi (07:50):
If you take the load off of the veterinary staff, you
mean like the workload?
Dr. Stacee (07:53):
Yeah.
You make the workload moremanageable and you give
different people options versusright now, when we don't use
technology, the only option isto call or walk in.
Those are the tried and trueoptions, but what about some new
options?
So we can, you know, diversifyour portfolio a little bit here
(08:16):
and not try to be the end allsolution for every single pet
owner in our community.
Dr. Shadi (08:21):
Exactly.
And so imagine a world where youhave a finite amount of
appointment slots as a generalpractitioner, let's just say 10
slots open of those 10 slots.
How many of them are going to beactually sick pets of those sick
pets?
How many of those pet owners areactually going to invest money
in testing and treatment, right?
Your gold standard plan, right?
(08:42):
When you look at thatdistribution, you can see why
veterinary clinics wanna fit asmuch as the door as possible
because no single appointment isa guarantee, sick pet
diagnostics, and you get paidfor all of that as the
veterinary clinic, right?
They may say no to everything orthe pet isn't really that sick
or what have you.
(09:02):
So imagine a world where you canactually let's call it, triage
those cases prior to makingthose appointments.
So those ones that are eitherinnocuous conditions at home, or
just basic owner, pet ownerquestions, things that could be
bandaid or even treated at home,stay out of the hospital.
Don't take up that appointmentslot, save those appointment
(09:23):
slots for animals that areactually sick, who need to be
seen with pet owners who areactually going to invest
finances into that, thatappointment.
Now the veterinarian has 10appointments that are guaranteed
to be pets that are worthy ofyour, of your evaluation.
I don't mean worthy in the senseof animals are worth less or
more.
(09:43):
I mean, those that are actuallyill, that are worthy of the
doctor's time and effort and theparent taking time off of work
and driving and schlep the kidsover putting the cat in the cat
carrier, right?
They're actually sick animals.
And that pet parent knows I'mready to sign off and spend X
number of dollars on theexamination, blood work x-rays
treatment, whatever, right?
(10:04):
Then you have 10 slots for thatgeneral practitioner.
In this example that areactually financially make sense.
And you can keep the lights onat the facility, pay your
employees and then haveeverybody leave hopefully on
time, because you can plan outyour day now knowing this, that
that's just one simple solutionwhere you can incorporate
technology off campus, let's sayoutta the hospital to then fill
(10:26):
up your appointments, which willbe filled up regardless.
There's no shortage of, of, ofanimals that need help with
those types of cases.
You know, um, a growth on, onpets that are not really
changing that much, a brokentoenail, a mild allergic
reaction, one bout of vomiting,one bout of diarrhea, mild
lethargy.
Maybe it's an excessive pantingtoday.
I can go on.
(10:46):
And on of the examples of casesthat we see on VetTriage, that
should not enter the brick andmortar.
Yeah.
It just shouldn't.
Or at least not at that moment,they can make an appointment for
days, weeks, or months from now.
Then
Dr. Stacee (11:00):
How does the platform work from the pet owner
side?
So walk me through that.
I'm a pet owner.
I got a question I've called myclinic and they've told me,
we'll see you, you know, ineight to nine days, we're booked
out.
But my dog is let's just say,how about of diarrhea?
What, what do I do?
(11:21):
How do I engage with VetTriage?
At this point,
Dr. Shadi (11:24):
The pet parent will either access vettriage.com,
follow the instructions fromthere, or they'll go through
their, um, veterinary hospital,veterinary clinic, academic site
rescue organization through alanding page that we custom
built for that clinic or forthat rescue or for that academic
institution.
They'll go to VetTriage.
That way they'll create anaccount.
(11:44):
The account is also very simple.
Name, email, phone number, phonenumber, phone number is meant
for technical support in casethere's a wifi problem or your
device battery dies or whateverit is and the email.
So we can send them a summary ofthe advice given we don't ask
for species what your concernsare.
Nothing.
We want this to be a quickprocess triage.
We don't know if that pet on theother side of the screen has an
(12:06):
actual life threateningemergency that's time sensitive
or not.
We don't know.
We wanna make this a very quickand painless process for that
concern.
Pet owner three in the morning,they're concerned, right?
So they felt the, uh,information create the account,
pay$50 credit, debit, PayPal,whatever works for them.
They're on with theveterinarian.
That account creating processtakes less than a minute.
(12:27):
Our average wait, time to meetwith the veterinarian is about a
minute and a half of twominutes.
Wow.
And if we need, if the timesstart climbing up, we get more
veterinarians on.
I have no shortage ofveterinarians who are happy and
willing to serve.
Then the session will occur on avideo.
Live.
The veterinarian can takemedical notes while talking to
the pet owner while looking attheir pet.
Okay.
Turn fluffy that way.
(12:47):
Let me look at the belly.
Push on the spine, show me thegums.
Maybe you can get really fancy.
Get me a thermometer.
Let's check a temperature.
Perhaps some of the clients aremedically trained.
Let's get your Stethoscope out.
Listen to the heart.
Is there arrhythmia is there,what's the heart rate, et cetera
, finish all that.
Give them the peace of mind thatthey're looking for at the end
of the session, email the petparent, the summary of the
(13:10):
advice given.
And if they do have a familyveterinarian email that
veterinary clinic as well, thosemedical records, and then move
on to the next case.
Okay.
Our average time to spend withthe pet parent is 12 minutes.
That's just, that's on average.
Some take a few seconds, cuzit's obviously an emergency with
move quickly.
Others take 30, 40 minutes.
Cause it's a more in depthdiscussion.
But average time is about 12minutes.
(13:31):
They're spending with the petparent not being rushed at all
to get off the video, take yourtime with our doctor.
Mm-hmm that's howit operates.
Dr. Stacee (13:38):
That's amazing.
And what, what are the mostcommon reasons you find people
reach out so far with all yourdata?
Dr. Shadi (13:46):
The top, the top three reasons, medical reasons
why folks reach out to us isgastrointestinal disease, skin
problems, and urinary.
Those are top three.
I would say four and five arehospice care and behavioral
stuff.
So that's, that's what we tendto see.
Um, we are up to 27, 28different animal types.
By far, the most common are dogsand cats.
(14:06):
They make up together around 80%after that is poultry and
rabbits.
Those are just, what's common.
That's, what's what we're seeing.
But everything from squirrels tofish, to horses, we've seen it.
Um, and, and coming from about13 or 14 different countries,
mostly us and Canada, but we'vehad Germany, Portugal, Lebanon,
Australia.
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(14:55):
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Dr. Shadi (15:03):
My veterinarians that work for VetTriage.
Again, we did not even, we'venever asked for, um, resumes.
Vets just started looking forthis because the culture sucks.
And so they started looking forother ways of practice medicine
and telemedicine was an obviousnext step, especially with the
pandemic.
And so they'll reach out to usunsolicited there's Hey, are you
(15:25):
guys hiring?
So I'm slow to hire.
I want veterinarians who areexperienced, who can communicate
well, know what to do over avideo landscape, which not all
of them will, but I'll trainthem.
And, and they're, they're,they're comfortable with this
type of medium understanding our, our overarching goal improve
the culture, spearheaded,telemedicine movement increase,
access to care.
Dr. Stacee (15:44):
How does a practice get started with VetTriage?
If they're interested?
I mean, this sounds amazing tome, honestly, you guys like I'm
slammed, I'm busy.
I can't see everybody.
I feel like if I were to utilizethe VetTriage, I would almost
have like an extra extension ofmy practice available to me to
(16:05):
be sort of like an air trafficcontroller to help me manage the
incomings and divert.
Like this would be a differentscenario if I was bored, if I
didn't have enough to do everyday.
And I was, twiddling my thumbswondering like, well, I guess
I'll go out for another two hourlunch break again today.
I guess I'll take a nap thisafternoon and wait for another
(16:27):
appointment to show up that everhappened.
Have you ever had a nap or alunch as a veterinarian?
I just, uh, no.
Okay.
Yeah, but if you are that way,then you do not need vet triage,
but if you are the oppositewhere you haven't eaten a full
meal, uh, you only go to thebathroom, uh, once a day, like
(16:50):
these kinds of things, how doesthe practice get started?
Dr. Shadi (16:55):
So the, the reach out to us through the website, our
contact information is there and, um, I'll contact them.
We'll go over what the detailsare, what we're trying to
accomplish as a company.
And then describe them theprocess of, of being a partner,
which includes they would, wewould create a landing page for
them.
They can put on their websiteVetTriage logo under their
(17:15):
either emergency column or afterhours page or whatever it is
they have on their, on theirindividual website.
Their clients can then click onthat through their website and
go to VetTriage.
It'll be all, it'll be brandedwith that hospital logo.
So as you said, they'll appearas an extension of the facility,
which is really what we are ontop of that.
We also will have them create aprotocol that will be embedded
(17:38):
in our system.
So when the client does come toVetTriage through the landing
page, that protocol will pop upfor my veterinarians.
They'll know how that hospitalwants us to handle emergencies.
Where do we send them?
Or who's on call and where,where can we, what email can we
send the medical notes to?
Um, does, does the emergencyhospital, uh, down the street
see exotics or not?
What do we do with those cases?
(18:00):
Um, what if there's a pet thatwas found, how do we want us to
operate?
You know, things like that.
And so they'll create acustomized protocol.
That'll be embedded our systemas well.
And then third will createflyers for the facility, flyers
that are digital.
They can email them to folks,add it to their social media,
put it in newsletters, printthem, hand it out, checkout, put
it in puppy kitten kits.
However you see of use.
(18:21):
They can, they can, they candisperse in.
Like I said, all that set up isfree for clinics, uh, clinics,
hospitals, organizations likethis should not be paying for
this service.
It, if the client's pet is theresponsibility to take care of
that pet, there's no need,there's no need.
I, I see no need.
Why a clinic on organizationshould take on that financial
burden to utilize our services.
(18:42):
We're trying to improveveterinary culture.
And it does not mean giving themanother bill to pay.
So all that construct is freefor the, the clinics or rescues
or academia to utilize us.
Dr. Caitlin (18:52):
Shadi That sounds awesome.
So it sounds like you're workingwith both large and smaller
practices and you mostly talk topractice managers, but probably
owners a lot too.
So if, if our listeners are, arethinking, Hey, you know, maybe
this is something that I shouldconsider.
If there's somebody that'sthinking about adding in some
sort of triage service, yours oranother one, hopefully yours, uh
(19:15):
, what's the, what's the onething they should really think
about first
Dr. Shadi (19:20):
Should think about what is the biggest challenge
they have in their day to dayfunction?
What is their challenge really?
Is it that daytime they're justgetting killed with walk-ins
cause we can help.
We can help with that.
We'll customize protocols forthat service.
Are they on call and sick ofgetting 30 phone calls a night
with, with zero or maybe onebeing an actual emergency, they
(19:41):
should use us get rid of theanswering service and use vet
triage, right?
So what is the largest obstacleyou're trying to, to, to solve
here?
Are you a large 24 7 emergencyhospital with 6, 8 72 hour wait
times, which it, which has beenhappening, you wanna cut down
those wait times that triage andwe'll make sure to cut down
those times for you by allowingby, by having you see just those
(20:04):
cases that really need to beseen by an emergency clinic.
Um, so what's, so the questionto ask yourself as an
organization is what problem areyou trying to solve?
And if that's the, if that's thecase, if you know what your
biggest obstacle is to movingforward, to keep your staff
happy, to, to make sure thatyour, your medical care is up to
par with your standards, vettriage, and then we'll figure
(20:25):
out the solution to that, tothat obstacle.
Dr. Stacee (20:28):
Great.
I don't see a negative here atall.
Honestly, the practice doesn'thave to pay anything, the pet
owner, if they want to getinformation, they can go ahead
and initiate a case off theirweb browser.
And they talk to a intermediaryveterinarian and they help get
(20:50):
redirected more appropriately.
And that helps everybody.
So a fantastic idea.
Congratulations.
Dr. Shadi (20:57):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Dr. Stacee (20:58):
Well, I'm gonna ask you a question now that
everybody asks me.
Sure.
Do you miss practicingveterinary medicine?
Do you miss doing surgery?
Dr. Shadi (21:08):
I don't.
Dr. Stacee (21:09):
.
I am the same answer.
Dr. Shadi (21:12):
I do not.
And, and, and I'll, and I'llsay, I mean, I mean, some of it
is I've done all the coolsurgeries I've wanted to do, you
know, open, open chest surgery,spinal surgery, I've done it
all.
Very cool.
Lot of fun.
There's a lot of stressassociated with that from client
expectations to patient outcome,to the cost associated with it,
all that stuff, you know, butover time in seeing how things
(21:35):
have been going with ourprofession and having always had
a strong proclivity towardsacademia, teaching young people,
any aspect of vet medicine, theywanna learn whether it's medical
or, or more managerial orwhatever it may be.
I I'm realizing that my love foracademia, which has always been
there, I can combine it with the, a sort of a next stage in my
(21:58):
professional life.
And this seems to be a reallycool way to do that.
We can spearhead a movementtelemedicine, right?
Try and sort of show thecommunity what we believe the
goal standards should be use myclinical experience, my
managerial experience with thatteach young people, educate the
pet parents out there.
(22:19):
It's, it's, it's a win foreverybody.
Um, otherwise, what else are youdoing if you, if you're not
going to be able to challengeyourself with a whole new
stepping stone in your career,
Dr. Caitlin (22:28):
I think that might be spoken like a true surgeon.
Is that right?
Dr. Stacee (22:33):
Just kidding.
All right.
Well, so great to meet with you.
Thank you for taking the timetoday to talk to Caitlin and I
about vet triage.
It's our pleasure to get to knowyou and guys be sure to check it
out.
It's vettriage.com V E T T R I AG E.
Just like it soundsvettriage.com.
(22:54):
Learn more about it.
There.
Reach out to Dr.
Shadi, get a demo, check it out,sign up.
You'll be rocking and rollingbefore you know it.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of#IVETSOHARD, and we
hope to see you again next week.
Thanks for joining us fortoday's episode of#IVETSOHARD
Dr. Caitlin (23:14):
Don't forget to head over to, IVetSoHard.com to
download our top five takeawaysfrom this episode, we'll see you
right back here.
Dr. Stacee (23:22):
Same time, same place next week
Dr. Caitlin (23:25):
Until then here's to putting your technology to
work for your practice.
Welcome to #IVETSOHARD, technology and
workflows that really work thenot so serious podcast for
seriously busy veterinary teamsbrought to you by Vet2Pet.
Dr. Caitlin (00:13):
Listen for quick fun interviews with veterinary
professionals, who've retrievedand actually held onto their
sanity, happiness, and successby learning a few new tricks and
embracing efficient processesthat actually work.
Dr. Stacee (00:26):
I'm Dr.
Stacee Santi
Dr. Caitlin (00:28):
And I'm Dr.
Caitlin Dewilde,
Dr. Stacee (00:30):
And this is #IVETSOHARD.
Hey guys, I'm Really excited tobring to you a n ew guest today.
I had the pleasure of meeting Dr.
Shadi Ireifej recently fromVetTriage.
And I was so impressed with whathe had to offer.
I had to have him be a guest,not only does he have an amazing
(00:53):
technology platform aim to helpveterinarians, but he is also a
veterinarian, which is myfavorite, u h, Caitlin.
A nd I love when we findveterinarians making amazing
changes for the profession.
Yeah.
We obviously love to findveterinarians who are as nerdy,
as technology as we are anddouble whammy.
If they have a really greatpurpose and goal behind their
(01:17):
work.
So without further ado, D r.
Shadi tell the group aboutyourself and k ind of how you
got your idea for VetTriage.
Dr. Shadi (01:27):
Thank you very much for having me on this is an
absolute honor.
Uh, my name is Dr.
Shadi Ireifej.
I'm a board certified veterinarysurgeon.
I graduated from Cornelluniversity in 2006.
Uh, I went through my first yearinternship at angel in, uh,
Boston then did two surgicalinternships followed by a
surgical residency at longisland.
Veterinary specialist became aboard certified veterinary
surgeon since then went off myown with various surgical
(01:50):
accomplishments from thereworking around the country, and
then finally launched VetTriage.
The end of 2019, the premisebehind vet triage was actually
fairly simple.
Uh, I had to begin working onthis project maybe seven or
eight years prior.
I noticed that in the ERspecialty world, the front desk
staff would handle hundreds ofphone calls.
(02:11):
Every 24 hours of clientsasking, is this an emergency or
not?
Do I have to come in?
Should I be worried?
And we all know that over thephone, they can't give that sort
of medical advice.
They're not medically trained.
And the only, our only answerreally for our decades was if
you're concerned, come in, ifyou're concerned, come in.
So I thought, boy, that's fairlylame.
We can do better than that.
And not knowing what's calledtelemedicine.
(02:32):
I thought, you know what, if youcreate a whole business model
around that concept, give folksaccess to veterinarians without
having to come in to answer thatvery question that started off
the, um, chase both legally tofigure out what we can do on
ethical grounds, as well astechnologically to figure out
how we create our own videoplatform to, to make this move
(02:54):
forward.
And because we're veterinaryowned and I've worked at every
facet of the veterinary field GP, ER, specialty rescue, um, and
managed departments ownedhospitals, did all that stuff.
I figured, you know, we can, wecan, we can do this and have the
veterinary culture in mind.
And so that's from that Vetriwas, was born.
We had no idea.
(03:15):
The pandemic was a few monthsaway after launch.
Um, whether that helped us orhurt us.
I'm not sure, but telemedicinehas become a common, common
place name now in, uh, inhouseholds.
So
Dr. Stacee (03:28):
Yeah, so you, you launched this before the
pandemic, so you were alreadytotally open to shaking up the
workflow and, uh, making peoplethink of different ways to be
more efficient and not hatetheir job is what you're saying.
Dr. Shadi (03:44):
Anybody who's been profession long enough knows
that we, for some reason, well,for many reasons, actually we
become quite complacent.
Our, our regulations aresomewhat antiquated.
The folks running the show onmedical boards and organizations
are freely antiquated.
We need new blood.
Um, and then when you look atgenerational changes, you know,
(04:07):
the gen X millennial, then genZ, that has to be account for as
well.
Then of course you have accessto care issues or countless
cultural problems.
So all of that has to be dealtwith, and we've been doing the
same old crap for decadesrunning the depression to the
ground.
The pandemics certainly didaccelerate that the generation,
(04:28):
um, but it was gonna happenanyway.
And I saw that before as anintern, I saw that that the
cultural toxicity that wasrampant throughout these
institutions.
So this gives us an opportunityto try and fix those things and
increase access to caresimultaneously.
Dr. Stacee (04:41):
So why do you think the culture is so in practice?
Dr. Shadi (04:45):
Mm-hmm,
you can divide it up intoprobably the veterinarian's
fault and then pet owner'sfault.
Um, on the veterinary side ofthings, you have fairly obvious
issues.
The, um, the wages that LVTs andassistants and receptionists
received, they're very long,strenuous work hours, working
(05:09):
hours after the shift ends,skipping lunch breaks, never
going on vacation, feeling badabout calling out sick, right,
et cetera.
Then you have veterinarians whoinherently are managers,
although we're not trained thatway.
Some are inherently good at it.
Most are not, it's not, it's notintuitive.
So we're not really trained tobe business owners managers.
So you have that aspect to it.
(05:30):
We tend to hire management stafflike HR staff, for example, or
management of kennel help ortechnicians by just promoting
people who are already there asopposed to hiring people from
the outside that have actualdegrees in this.
Those are some examples of that.
Then of course, what suffersfrom there is your staff suffers
(05:53):
the quality to, uh, care suffersand it's not sustainable.
Then you end up getting turnover, um, suicides, all the ugly
stuff that we're seeing on theclient side of things.
And this ties into social media.
It appears to be that there is alot more of the helicopter
parent when it comes to petsgoing, that's much more of a, a
(06:16):
commonplace aspect to it.
You have social media.
So it gives clients the, theavenue, the tools to be able to
on that practice where thingsdid not go well, or it was too
expensive for them.
And so they view the hospitalsbeing money hungry.
Mm-hmm
happens when you combine healthwith a service industry, right?
(06:39):
You can't just focus on themedicine because you have a
service industry as well.
And so those clients expect notonly perfect medicine, which
doesn't always happen, but theyalso expect an elite amount of
service, which is like, boy,you're not a hotel, it's a
hospital.
And so trying to marry those twoworlds can be done, many have
done it successfully, but it'svery, very difficult.
And sometimes you sacrifice theculture for that.
(07:01):
So that's just a sampling ofwhat we could go into with
regards to why the culture is sopoor.
And then that's just on thataspect.
You can also attack the academiatoo and say, well, how are they
contributing to this badculture?
Cuz they are maybe unknowingly,but they're also contributing to
this.
So there's that there's there'seven before prevet there's
issues there as well.
Dr. Stacee (07:23):
I think, I think you're describing what I call
the intersection of like heartand commerce.
Like we play in this area it'sso dangerous.
Like it's, we're day in, day outin this area, this arena, if you
will.
And I think when we employ adopttechnology solutions, we can at
(07:44):
least take some load off.
Is that kind of how you got youridea?
Dr. Shadi (07:50):
If you take the load off of the veterinary staff, you
mean like the workload?
Dr. Stacee (07:53):
Yeah.
You make the workload moremanageable and you give
different people options versusright now, when we don't use
technology, the only option isto call or walk in.
Those are the tried and trueoptions, but what about some new
options?
So we can, you know, diversifyour portfolio a little bit here
(08:16):
and not try to be the end allsolution for every single pet
owner in our community.
Dr. Shadi (08:21):
Exactly.
And so imagine a world where youhave a finite amount of
appointment slots as a generalpractitioner, let's just say 10
slots open of those 10 slots.
How many of them are going to beactually sick pets of those sick
pets?
How many of those pet owners areactually going to invest money
in testing and treatment, right?
Your gold standard plan, right?
(08:42):
When you look at thatdistribution, you can see why
veterinary clinics wanna fit asmuch as the door as possible
because no single appointment isa guarantee, sick pet
diagnostics, and you get paidfor all of that as the
veterinary clinic, right?
They may say no to everything orthe pet isn't really that sick
or what have you.
(09:02):
So imagine a world where you canactually let's call it, triage
those cases prior to makingthose appointments.
So those ones that are eitherinnocuous conditions at home, or
just basic owner, pet ownerquestions, things that could be
bandaid or even treated at home,stay out of the hospital.
Don't take up that appointmentslot, save those appointment
(09:23):
slots for animals that areactually sick, who need to be
seen with pet owners who areactually going to invest
finances into that, thatappointment.
Now the veterinarian has 10appointments that are guaranteed
to be pets that are worthy ofyour, of your evaluation.
I don't mean worthy in the senseof animals are worth less or
more.
(09:43):
I mean, those that are actuallyill, that are worthy of the
doctor's time and effort and theparent taking time off of work
and driving and schlep the kidsover putting the cat in the cat
carrier, right?
They're actually sick animals.
And that pet parent knows I'mready to sign off and spend X
number of dollars on theexamination, blood work x-rays
treatment, whatever, right?
(10:04):
Then you have 10 slots for thatgeneral practitioner.
In this example that areactually financially make sense.
And you can keep the lights onat the facility, pay your
employees and then haveeverybody leave hopefully on
time, because you can plan outyour day now knowing this, that
that's just one simple solutionwhere you can incorporate
technology off campus, let's sayoutta the hospital to then fill
(10:26):
up your appointments, which willbe filled up regardless.
There's no shortage of, of, ofanimals that need help with
those types of cases.
You know, um, a growth on, onpets that are not really
changing that much, a brokentoenail, a mild allergic
reaction, one bout of vomiting,one bout of diarrhea, mild
lethargy.
Maybe it's an excessive pantingtoday.
I can go on.
(10:46):
And on of the examples of casesthat we see on VetTriage, that
should not enter the brick andmortar.
Yeah.
It just shouldn't.
Or at least not at that moment,they can make an appointment for
days, weeks, or months from now.
Then
Dr. Stacee (11:00):
How does the platform work from the pet owner
side?
So walk me through that.
I'm a pet owner.
I got a question I've called myclinic and they've told me,
we'll see you, you know, ineight to nine days, we're booked
out.
But my dog is let's just say,how about of diarrhea?
What, what do I do?
(11:21):
How do I engage with VetTriage?
At this point,
Dr. Shadi (11:24):
The pet parent will either access vettriage.com,
follow the instructions fromthere, or they'll go through
their, um, veterinary hospital,veterinary clinic, academic site
rescue organization through alanding page that we custom
built for that clinic or forthat rescue or for that academic
institution.
They'll go to VetTriage.
That way they'll create anaccount.
(11:44):
The account is also very simple.
Name, email, phone number, phonenumber, phone number is meant
for technical support in casethere's a wifi problem or your
device battery dies or whateverit is and the email.
So we can send them a summary ofthe advice given we don't ask
for species what your concernsare.
Nothing.
We want this to be a quickprocess triage.
We don't know if that pet on theother side of the screen has an
(12:06):
actual life threateningemergency that's time sensitive
or not.
We don't know.
We wanna make this a very quickand painless process for that
concern.
Pet owner three in the morning,they're concerned, right?
So they felt the, uh,information create the account,
pay$50 credit, debit, PayPal,whatever works for them.
They're on with theveterinarian.
That account creating processtakes less than a minute.
(12:27):
Our average wait, time to meetwith the veterinarian is about a
minute and a half of twominutes.
Wow.
And if we need, if the timesstart climbing up, we get more
veterinarians on.
I have no shortage ofveterinarians who are happy and
willing to serve.
Then the session will occur on avideo.
Live.
The veterinarian can takemedical notes while talking to
the pet owner while looking attheir pet.
Okay.
Turn fluffy that way.
(12:47):
Let me look at the belly.
Push on the spine, show me thegums.
Maybe you can get really fancy.
Get me a thermometer.
Let's check a temperature.
Perhaps some of the clients aremedically trained.
Let's get your Stethoscope out.
Listen to the heart.
Is there arrhythmia is there,what's the heart rate, et cetera
, finish all that.
Give them the peace of mind thatthey're looking for at the end
of the session, email the petparent, the summary of the
(13:10):
advice given.
And if they do have a familyveterinarian email that
veterinary clinic as well, thosemedical records, and then move
on to the next case.
Okay.
Our average time to spend withthe pet parent is 12 minutes.
That's just, that's on average.
Some take a few seconds, cuzit's obviously an emergency with
move quickly.
Others take 30, 40 minutes.
Cause it's a more in depthdiscussion.
But average time is about 12minutes.
(13:31):
They're spending with the petparent not being rushed at all
to get off the video, take yourtime with our doctor.
Mm-hmm
Dr. Stacee (13:38):
That's amazing.
And what, what are the mostcommon reasons you find people
reach out so far with all yourdata?
Dr. Shadi (13:46):
The top, the top three reasons, medical reasons
why folks reach out to us isgastrointestinal disease, skin
problems, and urinary.
Those are top three.
I would say four and five arehospice care and behavioral
stuff.
So that's, that's what we tendto see.
Um, we are up to 27, 28different animal types.
By far, the most common are dogsand cats.
(14:06):
They make up together around 80%after that is poultry and
rabbits.
Those are just, what's common.
That's, what's what we're seeing.
But everything from squirrels tofish, to horses, we've seen it.
Um, and, and coming from about13 or 14 different countries,
mostly us and Canada, but we'vehad Germany, Portugal, Lebanon,
Australia.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
Have you heard of Vet2Pet?
It's the only customizable allin one client engagement and
communication platform inveterinary medicine Vet2Pet's
loyalty program is proven toincrease practice revenue and
they're robust reminders meanthat practices can stop paying
for multiple communicationplatforms.
Vet2Pet manages it all visitvet2pet.com/ ivetsohard vet2pet
(14:55):
.com/ Ivetsohard.
Dr. Shadi (15:03):
My veterinarians that work for VetTriage.
Again, we did not even, we'venever asked for, um, resumes.
Vets just started looking forthis because the culture sucks.
And so they started looking forother ways of practice medicine
and telemedicine was an obviousnext step, especially with the
pandemic.
And so they'll reach out to usunsolicited there's Hey, are you
(15:25):
guys hiring?
So I'm slow to hire.
I want veterinarians who areexperienced, who can communicate
well, know what to do over avideo landscape, which not all
of them will, but I'll trainthem.
And, and they're, they're,they're comfortable with this
type of medium understanding our, our overarching goal improve
the culture, spearheaded,telemedicine movement increase,
access to care.
Dr. Stacee (15:44):
How does a practice get started with VetTriage?
If they're interested?
I mean, this sounds amazing tome, honestly, you guys like I'm
slammed, I'm busy.
I can't see everybody.
I feel like if I were to utilizethe VetTriage, I would almost
have like an extra extension ofmy practice available to me to
(16:05):
be sort of like an air trafficcontroller to help me manage the
incomings and divert.
Like this would be a differentscenario if I was bored, if I
didn't have enough to do everyday.
And I was, twiddling my thumbswondering like, well, I guess
I'll go out for another two hourlunch break again today.
I guess I'll take a nap thisafternoon and wait for another
(16:27):
appointment to show up that everhappened.
Have you ever had a nap or alunch as a veterinarian?
I just, uh, no.
Okay.
Yeah, but if you are that way,then you do not need vet triage,
but if you are the oppositewhere you haven't eaten a full
meal, uh, you only go to thebathroom, uh, once a day, like
(16:50):
these kinds of things, how doesthe practice get started?
Dr. Shadi (16:55):
So the, the reach out to us through the website, our
contact information is there and, um, I'll contact them.
We'll go over what the detailsare, what we're trying to
accomplish as a company.
And then describe them theprocess of, of being a partner,
which includes they would, wewould create a landing page for
them.
They can put on their websiteVetTriage logo under their
(17:15):
either emergency column or afterhours page or whatever it is
they have on their, on theirindividual website.
Their clients can then click onthat through their website and
go to VetTriage.
It'll be all, it'll be brandedwith that hospital logo.
So as you said, they'll appearas an extension of the facility,
which is really what we are ontop of that.
We also will have them create aprotocol that will be embedded
(17:38):
in our system.
So when the client does come toVetTriage through the landing
page, that protocol will pop upfor my veterinarians.
They'll know how that hospitalwants us to handle emergencies.
Where do we send them?
Or who's on call and where,where can we, what email can we
send the medical notes to?
Um, does, does the emergencyhospital, uh, down the street
see exotics or not?
What do we do with those cases?
(18:00):
Um, what if there's a pet thatwas found, how do we want us to
operate?
You know, things like that.
And so they'll create acustomized protocol.
That'll be embedded our systemas well.
And then third will createflyers for the facility, flyers
that are digital.
They can email them to folks,add it to their social media,
put it in newsletters, printthem, hand it out, checkout, put
it in puppy kitten kits.
However you see of use.
(18:21):
They can, they can, they candisperse in.
Like I said, all that set up isfree for clinics, uh, clinics,
hospitals, organizations likethis should not be paying for
this service.
It, if the client's pet is theresponsibility to take care of
that pet, there's no need,there's no need.
I, I see no need.
Why a clinic on organizationshould take on that financial
burden to utilize our services.
(18:42):
We're trying to improveveterinary culture.
And it does not mean giving themanother bill to pay.
So all that construct is freefor the, the clinics or rescues
or academia to utilize us.
Dr. Caitlin (18:52):
Shadi That sounds awesome.
So it sounds like you're workingwith both large and smaller
practices and you mostly talk topractice managers, but probably
owners a lot too.
So if, if our listeners are, arethinking, Hey, you know, maybe
this is something that I shouldconsider.
If there's somebody that'sthinking about adding in some
sort of triage service, yours oranother one, hopefully yours, uh
(19:15):
, what's the, what's the onething they should really think
about first
Dr. Shadi (19:20):
Should think about what is the biggest challenge
they have in their day to dayfunction?
What is their challenge really?
Is it that daytime they're justgetting killed with walk-ins
cause we can help.
We can help with that.
We'll customize protocols forthat service.
Are they on call and sick ofgetting 30 phone calls a night
with, with zero or maybe onebeing an actual emergency, they
(19:41):
should use us get rid of theanswering service and use vet
triage, right?
So what is the largest obstacleyou're trying to, to, to solve
here?
Are you a large 24 7 emergencyhospital with 6, 8 72 hour wait
times, which it, which has beenhappening, you wanna cut down
those wait times that triage andwe'll make sure to cut down
those times for you by allowingby, by having you see just those
(20:04):
cases that really need to beseen by an emergency clinic.
Um, so what's, so the questionto ask yourself as an
organization is what problem areyou trying to solve?
And if that's the, if that's thecase, if you know what your
biggest obstacle is to movingforward, to keep your staff
happy, to, to make sure thatyour, your medical care is up to
par with your standards, vettriage, and then we'll figure
(20:25):
out the solution to that, tothat obstacle.
Dr. Stacee (20:28):
Great.
I don't see a negative here atall.
Honestly, the practice doesn'thave to pay anything, the pet
owner, if they want to getinformation, they can go ahead
and initiate a case off theirweb browser.
And they talk to a intermediaryveterinarian and they help get
(20:50):
redirected more appropriately.
And that helps everybody.
So a fantastic idea.
Congratulations.
Dr. Shadi (20:57):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Dr. Stacee (20:58):
Well, I'm gonna ask you a question now that
everybody asks me.
Sure.
Do you miss practicingveterinary medicine?
Do you miss doing surgery?
Dr. Shadi (21:08):
I don't.
Dr. Stacee (21:09):
I am the same answer.
Dr. Shadi (21:12):
I do not.
And, and, and I'll, and I'llsay, I mean, I mean, some of it
is I've done all the coolsurgeries I've wanted to do, you
know, open, open chest surgery,spinal surgery, I've done it
all.
Very cool.
Lot of fun.
There's a lot of stressassociated with that from client
expectations to patient outcome,to the cost associated with it,
all that stuff, you know, butover time in seeing how things
(21:35):
have been going with ourprofession and having always had
a strong proclivity towardsacademia, teaching young people,
any aspect of vet medicine, theywanna learn whether it's medical
or, or more managerial orwhatever it may be.
I I'm realizing that my love foracademia, which has always been
there, I can combine it with the, a sort of a next stage in my
(21:58):
professional life.
And this seems to be a reallycool way to do that.
We can spearhead a movementtelemedicine, right?
Try and sort of show thecommunity what we believe the
goal standards should be use myclinical experience, my
managerial experience with thatteach young people, educate the
pet parents out there.
(22:19):
It's, it's, it's a win foreverybody.
Um, otherwise, what else are youdoing if you, if you're not
going to be able to challengeyourself with a whole new
stepping stone in your career,
Dr. Caitlin (22:28):
I think that might be spoken like a true surgeon.
Is that right?
Dr. Stacee (22:33):
Just kidding.
All right.
Well, so great to meet with you.
Thank you for taking the timetoday to talk to Caitlin and I
about vet triage.
It's our pleasure to get to knowyou and guys be sure to check it
out.
It's vettriage.com V E T T R I AG E.
Just like it soundsvettriage.com.
(22:54):
Learn more about it.
There.
Reach out to Dr.
Shadi, get a demo, check it out,sign up.
You'll be rocking and rollingbefore you know it.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of#IVETSOHARD, and we
hope to see you again next week.
Thanks for joining us fortoday's episode of#IVETSOHARD
Dr. Caitlin (23:14):
Don't forget to head over to, IVetSoHard.com to
download our top five takeawaysfrom this episode, we'll see you
right back here.
Dr. Stacee (23:22):
Same time, same place next week
Dr. Caitlin (23:25):
Until then here's to putting your technology to
work for your practice.
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