February 6, 2025 • 65 mins
Ever wonder how your online rants could impact your job prospects? We kick off this episode with a personal story about Scout Motors and a disgruntled engineer who took to social media to air grievances after a job rejection. This sparks a lively discussion on the consequences of our digital footprints and the quirks of online reviews. But it's not all serious business—we also share a laugh over our TV habits and how shows like "Modern Family" have infiltrated our lives with their loud antics.
Switching gears, we tackle the ever-evolving landscape of executive orders and their implications for HR professionals, especially those in government contracting. We explore the fine line between executive orders and laws, and how recent changes are shaking up workplace policies. With insights from labor attorneys, we unpack the legal challenges looming on the horizon and delve into the strategic compliance maneuvers organizations are considering. Plus, we reflect on the potential impact of cutting DEI initiatives and why maintaining workplace ethics is as crucial as ever.
It's not just about regulations and compliance; we're also dissecting the myths and realities of DEI efforts in today's workplace. From social media's role in spreading misconceptions to the true aim of creating a level playing field, we leave no stone unturned. Our conversation touches on everything from the influence of past media like "The Office" to why inclusive environments are vital for employee retention and satisfaction. Join us as we navigate the complexities with humor, curiosity, and a dash of optimism for the future.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
you are about to listen to could contain explicit
language and offensive content.
These HR experts' views are notrepresentative of their past,
present or future employers.
If you have ever heard, mymanager is unfair to me.
I need you to reset my HRportal password.
Or Can I write up my employeefor crying too much?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to our little safe zone.
Welcome to Jaded HR, thepodcast by two HR professionals
(00:56):
who want to help you get throughthe workday by saying
everything you're thinking, butsay it out loud.
I'm Warren.
I'm Cece it out loud I'm Warren,I'm Cece and I'm apologizing
for the horrible, horrible audioin the last two episodes.
So big secret, sometimes werecord more than one at a time,
so we can actually live life alittle, and apparently I was.
(01:22):
I'm assuming I was using myheadphone microphones rather
than my awesome Samsung Q2A orwhatever it is, but anyways,
awful audio.
Hopefully today this will bebetter.
I'm looking at a little chartof my voice and it's getting up
to the yellows, so I'm thinkingit might be better this time.
So apologies apologies,apologies.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
And I want to apologize because I'm not sure
if it was me or the micsituation last week, but I
didn't realize how loud I talkand I should have taken a clue
when I talked to my husband theother day and he was like you're
so loud, it's just the two ofus, but I'm a projector, so I
apologize if I blew youreardrums off because I was
(02:04):
listening to the last recordingand I'm like gosh, my mic
technique needs to get better.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, speaking of people being, I think I
mentioned before, we juststarted watching Modern Family
and after a few episodes my wifehas to turn it off.
She says I can't stand all theyelling.
I can't stand all the yelling.
So we're almost through withthat show, so we're going to be
on to our next very, very soon.
So well, we actually did ourhomework a little bit this week
(02:34):
and have some topics to talkabout.
But I also wanted to bring upone other thing, a social media
sour grapes thing.
I'm to, I think I don't think Iknow I saved it sour grapes
yeah, so I.
There's a new car.
Scout Motors is coming out withnew cars in 2026 or maybe 2027,
(02:58):
and so I've been followingScout Motors online because I'm
most likely going to be buyingone.
I don't buy the car the firstyear it comes out, but the
second year I'm going to buy oneof them because I really like
everything I've seen about it.
Well, I follow them on alltheir little social medias.
(03:19):
This one dude they're talkingabout the new two Scout vehicles
that have come out.
One's an SUVv, one's a pickuptruck and he's.
And one thing I like aboutscout motors they're engaging
with the people who follow themon social media and if you make
a comment, a lot of timesthey're going to comment back
and they answer questions andit's, you know, for a product
(03:41):
that's not on the market yetmight not be out of the market
for two years.
I I think it's really, reallycool.
So I'm following him on socialmedia.
And this one dude he getsonline and he's listed as a top
fan.
This is from Facebook.
It's been a real disappointingweek for Scout.
As an experienced engineerworking the automotive, I was
discarded as a potentialemployee.
(04:02):
From what I feel, it's just asimple difference on how
automakers launch their newvehicles.
I keep my pride.
However, scout needs tounderstand their loss and I was
like maybe this dude is justcompletely deep.
You know, maybe you didn't gethired this time you plug into
(04:23):
the next opportunity, or maybewhen I'm recruiting I've had I
can't count the number ofcandidates they didn't work this
job.
Right now I call them back whenI have another and guess who
wouldn't be getting a call back.
It's like I said this that guy,he, this, this company, they're
active on it there, they respond, they, they, they.
(04:45):
They didn't respond to hismessage.
A lot of other people did.
It looks like are youdisappointed because you weren't
hired?
It sounds like it's not Scout'sloss, but people are.
You know just why?
Just you know why?
A lot of the stuff are on this?
Because Scout is an electricvehicle and a lot of people are.
(05:05):
You know.
Oh too bad, this is an EV, itwould be great if it had a Turbo
6 and all these other things.
People are disparaging it, butthey're in there sometimes.
Oh well, we do.
They respond in kind, butanyways, I just thought really,
why go on their product page tobitch and moan about it?
(05:28):
Anyways, I was saying he's anelectrical engineer.
I hire electrical engineers.
He's going to make me thinktoys about.
You know, if our recruiter is I, she sees me on all her resume
submissions and I peak at about60, 70% of them.
I don't read the resumes butI'm like, oh, that's a good
(05:49):
resume.
I, you know, I want to say, hey, this is a good resume, I like
this good work and things likethat.
I don't, I'm not involved inthe hiring process, I just like
to look and so I would probablysay, whoa, let's talk about this
dude before we get too faralong.
So that's awesome.
Social media.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
There is a.
There's a podcast for anyonenon HR related that I just like
to throw out there.
If you, if you're a big fan ofexamining the psychology of what
people put in reviews and kindof the stupidity that people
write in reviews online, a greatpodcast is my stupid or your
stupid opinion Great.
And kind of the stupidity thatpeople write in reviews online A
(06:26):
great podcast is your stupidopinion Great.
I'm not affiliated with them.
I enjoy it every week, soimagine all that stuff, but just
a podcast.
So if you're looking forsomething non-HR related to
cleanse your palate, your stupidopinion is great.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I just wrote it down.
I'm going to check that out.
As I tell you, I recently wentthrough and I purged my podcast
list.
It's things that I'm notenjoying anymore for various
reasons, and one of my very,very favorite podcasts overall,
by topic.
It's like their audio qualityis so much and they have credits
(07:02):
and our producer is da-da-da-da.
I'm like your producer must bea six-year-old.
This is even my.
Our last two weeks episodessound a lot better than any of
their episodes and I'm just soclose to calling it quits as
it's.
It's so I've turned offepisodes in the middle.
That I'm interested in is.
I just can't listen to itanymore but they, they don't
record anymore.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
what is it?
The oh, oh the podcast?
It's an HR podcast.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
HR Famous.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
HR Famous Tim.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Sackett, and JD.
And oh gosh, who's the third?
Lee Lee Lee.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
So I loved their content.
Yes, but Lee had to get amicrophone.
Like I would listen to thatpodcast and I'm one to talk
because I'm like shouting into amicrophone and I apologize if I
was doing that, but but I thinkshe was like recording from
like old fashioned plug inearbuds because I just wanted to
(07:56):
scream every time I listened.
I'm like everything you'resaying is valid and amazing,
great content, fun.
Get a better mic.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
You're a VP of a company, you can afford a better
mic.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Well, I think they would do their podcast.
I remember him saying once upona time and they just went off
the air and I am very upsetabout that but they would just
do it either early in themorning before they start their
day, or during lunch orsomething that you know they
were just squeezing it in whenthey can.
But you know, I'm down to Idon't know how many podcasts on
(08:31):
my three, six, nine, 12, 15.
I'm down to like 18 podcasts,but I still have on here hostile
work environment and where theyhaven't recorded in forever.
Surfing corporate they haven'trecorded in forever.
And then you have but yeah,I've just purged a whole bunch,
just got rid of them.
But everyone's one like servernot serving corporate well, they
(08:52):
did the same thing.
But also work environment theywent there for like two years
and then all of a sudden,because I still had it in my
list, I'm listening and the nextone up is is them.
I'm like whoa great, and thenthey're.
So I keep it there, but I hopethat they'll come back.
So, mark and Kate, if you everlisten to us at all, we had Kate
on one time.
Bring it back, please.
(09:13):
But anyways.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
So I'm laughing because, speaking of which and
then we can get into the meatyHRE conversation.
But I did have a moment where Iwas just being very chatty.
I think my ADHD got the best ofme and I overshared and I ended
up telling my boss about thisand he wrote it down.
So if my manager's listening,hi and don't hold anything
(09:38):
against me, Thanks.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Oh, so your boss knows you're on the show now.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Oh so your boss knows you're on the show now.
He was like asking about likeHR podcasts to listen to and I
was like wow.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Promote.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
There we go.
And then afterward I was likewas that smart?
But it's fine, I don't.
It's not like.
I mean, I speak very highly ofmy company and my manager, so
we're fine, we're fine.
I speak very highly of mycompany and my manager, so we're
fine.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
We're fine.
Well, my assistant found out Idon't share it with people at
work that I do a podcast.
My assistant found out as wewent to a conference and I ran
into several old co-workers whoworked with Patrick and I and
they were there when we firstannounced we're doing a podcast
(10:26):
and they listen regularly.
So Lisa, desiree, hey, but theystart talking to the podcast
and then Anna, my assistant,starts asking you have a podcast
?
I'm like, yeah, and so I don'tgo out blurting it about, but
I'm recording one of our openenrollment sessions right now.
I'm using our podcast softwareto edit it because it's better
(10:46):
than it's.
I know how to use it and I cando it quickly.
When we recorded one of ourepisodes, I can get it out to
the the employees pretty quickly.
So, yeah, that's so.
I'm not hiding it, but I'm notlike promoting it at work, but I
will be promoting it at theVirginia Sherm conference in
middle of April.
So if you're going to be downhere, look for me.
I'll be handing out littlecards with a QR code and
(11:08):
something like that.
So, yay, let's see.
Before we get into the meat ofour subject, let's go ahead and
do our thank yous to our Patreonsupporters Hallie, the original
Jaded HR rock star, bill andMike.
So thank you all very much.
Your support is very muchappreciated because we are, like
I think I said, maybe inDecember we renewed our
(11:30):
subscription to the recordingand editing software.
Thanks to you.
Thank you for that.
So, yep, that's, that's what wehave going on.
So the topic of the day andwe're going to try to keep this
as apolitical as we can of theday and we're going to try to
keep this as apolitical as wecan it's gonna be all the
wonderful fun executive eldersflying out of the, the White
House right now and the thewonderful time it's creating for
(11:54):
HR professionals.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
So what a time what a time.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I just wanna?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
I just wanna let everyone know that I am drinking
in old-fashioned cuz that isthe time I am having.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
It's empty, it is gone.
We're going to have to pause.
We're now pausing for a shortcommercial break, but yeah, so
we're not going to, you know,get too political.
As I, you know, I've mentionedbefore, I despise when I'm
listening for whatever contentthey want to get, especially if
I'm in a sport, if I'm listeningto sports podcasts and all of a
(12:26):
sudden, I don't want to hearyour politics in my sports at
all period, end of story.
But anyways, yeah, so where to?
Which executive order?
Which shakeup, which change doyou want to start with today?
We could do a week's worth ofepisodes on just the first, you
know week of executive ordersand their impact on HRs.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Seriously, yeah, we can talk about the EEOC piece.
Okay, because I want to prefacethis by saying I live in talent
management.
I know enough to be dangerous.
A lot of me is just thinkingout loud.
Do not hold it against me.
I'm an old-fashioned deep andyeah, I'm yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yeah, I can actually see it both ways.
I think there's a lot ofoverreaction from people about
some of these executives.
Some of them need to be reactedto as they are.
Some of them there's someoverreaction to, but and, and
some of them, it's like you know, regard.
This is probably as politicalas I get.
If trump says today is tuesday,february 4th, which it is,
(13:36):
somebody's gonna get their asschapped so badly about that
because it's the most marvelousday and this is a great day and
the fourth is always thegreatest day.
You know he speaks weirdly insuperlatives all the time, but
even if he's saying somethingthat's absolutely factual, he's
gonna he's gonna piss somebodyoff.
You know, something liketoday's Tuesday, and I've seen a
(13:59):
lot of that stuff to the pointwhere really, people okay, it's
time to come up for air a littlebit, but anyways, yeah I give,
I give people grace, justbecause you know people are
scared, they're worried, yeah I,I and I can understand that,
but, yeah, it's so.
The eoc so with and I learnedthis my our labor and employment
(14:24):
attorneys have been doing guestwebinars, like three a week
lately, and I haven't done themall.
Some of them are likeimmigration and things like that
.
We don't have to worry aboutimmigration where I work, but
the executive order forgovernment contractors, which
goes straight into the EEOC andthe Affirmative Action, is
something that I'm paying very,very close attention to and so
(14:47):
it is interesting just topreface that like so, Warren,
you work for a company that is agovernment contractor, yes, and
I work for a company that isprivate equity, private sector.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
So I think, yeah, there's like there's that
there's a difference there.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yes, yeah, yeah, there's like there's that
there's a difference there.
Yes, yeah, because, like evenour contracts and our president,
the president of our companyand I were taught we've had in
the past week we've had know,does the executive order mean
(15:24):
that poof?
Normally, when a governmentcontractor does any change like
the slightest change, like ohwell, okay, we're going to need
one more software developer thanyou bid for for this, so it
goes through a contract mod andit's a whole big thing to do
what you know.
Hey, I need another softwaredeveloper.
(15:44):
Okay, fine, it's not that easy.
But so to take the affirmativeaction out, are they going to do
a whole contract mod for this?
And you know, one of therevocations of and I don't know
the numbers of these executiveorders, but the one that's one
of the many that's causing astir is the revocation of
(16:07):
affirmative action in theworkplace.
So it's really interesting andit's funny.
I learned about it first on myway, like Thursday I did a
webinar with our attorneys, andthen Friday I was listening to
Good Morning HR with Mike Coffeyand he's discussed the same
thing, but I didn't know thisAffirmative action, eeo is not a
(16:28):
law and it was actually anexecutive order by Johnson.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
LBJ.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, that created it .
So because it was done byexecutive order, any president
can go on and say, well, thisone doesn't count anymore.
And that's pretty much exactlywhat happened.
But the difference is, when itcomes to veterans and
disabilities, those are codifiedlaws.
The ADA is an actual law thatthe president it has to go
(16:56):
through Congress to change theveterans.
The protections are actual law.
So you know, that's why thisall happened.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Do you know where country of origin is still?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Do you know where country of origin is still?
Because I remember it's race,gender, country of origin and
then there's disability andstuff like that.
So I that pretty much destroysyour affirmative action plan.
You can still report on veteranstatus and disability, but race
and gender are the ones thatare under the target.
My next webinar I'll throw thatin the question and answer
(17:46):
sessions.
I'm doing another later thisweek with the attorneys, as
they're just rapid firing thesethings out.
Like I said, there's been threea week since last week, so but
yeah, I'll throw that questionout there.
But it's it's really, it'sreally interesting.
And one of the things as anaffirmative action employer EEO,
affirmative action employer theexecutive order requires us to
(18:07):
remove.
Well, the first executive orderrequired us to have that little
blurb at the bottom of your jobpostings.
We are an affirmative actionequal employment opportunity.
We don't da, da, da, da da.
Now employers have like 90 daysto be compliant and our
philosophy is we're going towait till like day 85 to do
anything.
(18:27):
And I'm being serious, I laugh.
I'm being serious because Iwould be very surprised if a
judge didn't step in and eitherjust pause it or just throw it
out completely.
Some group out there is goingto find a sympathetic judge.
That's what they do.
You think that these thingsmysteriously end up in certain
(18:49):
judges' laps?
No, they find the district.
Okay, we need you to bring upthis lawsuit in this district so
we can have this judge.
And yeah, that's exactly whatthey're doing.
But it's going to beinteresting.
But but are we?
We're still going to berequired to?
Hey, we don't discriminateagainst veterans or veterans
status of disability as well.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
But in the other part and I don't know if it's the
same executive order or not isthe ending of illegal DEI
programs and I've covered so Ithink this is where I'm so, this
is where I'm like, personallystruggling and this is so like
the so back to like the EEOCstuff.
Like those things were broughtinto place because bad behaviors
(19:32):
were happening and I think I Ifeel like we put guardrails I'm
gonna say this very kindly, butI'm gonna say it very bluntly we
put guardrails in for thelowest common denominator, we
put guardrails in for the, forpeople the redneck good old boy
(19:55):
who act, I like, ah, sobasically, like there are, there
are things and I and I I wouldhate to think and I will say
this because I want to clarifythis is not at my current
company, this is at pastcompanies, but I don't know.
So I was in charge of recruiting, essentially for my new boss's
(20:18):
boss.
It was a really fun position tobe put into.
It was like the new head of HRfor a company and they just
basically said Christina, you'rethe only person here that can.
That's recruiting, so you findit.
So I was like recruiting for mymanager's boss, that's
recruiting, so you find it.
So I was like recruiting for mymanager's boss.
And I remember we were in a roomand the the president and the
(20:39):
owner of that company said witha dead ass serious face well, I,
it was.
Oh, by the way, backtrack, itwas two candidates.
We were down to a white maleand a white female, and he said
(21:02):
that the female candidate, thewoman candidate, drove up in a
red BMW to her interview.
That's the car she chose todrive.
And he said I have an issuewith that because that doesn't
really fit with the culture here, to which my jaw dropped on the
floor, because these biaseshappen and I don't think people
(21:26):
understand and I'm speaking as awhite woman, right, these
biases happen.
And I'm speaking as a whitewoman, right, these biases
happen and I witnessed it andthankfully, I mean I'm going to
put a little asterisk next tothis.
I was an itty bitty girl, like Ijust started, like I didn't
have the backbone to stand up tothe president of the company,
(21:47):
but thankfully someone in theroom did, and then I had the
strength to then back it up.
But the question was, I don'treally think that the car she
drives is going to affect theway in which she does her work.
And long story short, spoileralert we ended up or they ended
(22:09):
up deciding on the mail andguess who showed up to work?
Guess what, he showed updriving to work.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
A red BMW, please, please.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
But like.
So these are the behaviors thathappen.
So I would hate to think that,because we're no longer, like,
supposed to do it, that we'regoing to start reverting back,
because they happen.
And I know, like it's one ofthose lessons that I learned to
be a better advocate, because inhindsight I was like, but at
(22:42):
the same time you're young,you're new to career, you don't
want to like piss off thepresident of the company, but at
the same time, like I'm gladsomeone else in there with
tenure, what did speak up,because that shit pissed me off
and I hear it and I I hear theselittle micro like oh, it's like
, oh, and I would hate to thinkthat someone would be passed up
(23:06):
for a promotion because they'repregnant, or someone's passed up
for a promotion because they'retoo old, or someone is passed
up for like.
These are the things that worryme, because now there's no
protection against that and Iknow we'd like to think that
racism is dead, but racism andmisogyny is alive and well.
(23:27):
So like we're taking away thesethings and we're not doing
anything to protect our workers.
And spoiler alert today I don'tknow if you saw the bill to
like get rid of, but that'sanother thing to like.
These are, as an HRprofessional, like I'm not
getting political.
This is more morally no like.
Yeah, I get.
Like you're going to deregulateOSHA, like health and safety,
(23:52):
and next we're going to have 80hour work weeks because we're
going to get rid of the 40-hourwork week.
We don't need regulation aboutthat.
So we keep chiseling away atthese little things that are
going to take us back to thetriangle fire and people are
going to die at work.
And people are going to die atwork.
And I know it sounds like I'mcatastrophizing but at the same
(24:13):
time, I don't think I am,because these things were put
into place for a reason.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Oh, they absolutely were, because, just like all
these, you hear these things andyou think, oh, that's a stupid
law.
I'll go back to season one, oneof the first episodes Patrick
and I did, that's when the CrownAct got passed and you can hear
me talking and say what astupid waste of time to make a
dumbass law.
Who the hell discriminates onthe basis of hair.
(24:41):
I was just like why, why?
Why it wasn't six months untilthere was a case brought up on
it, and I'm like I literallyjust can't fathom that.
I really and I just I don'tknow, and you can listen to me
on that episode.
(25:02):
This is so stupid.
I don't know why they did it.
It really fired me up back then, but then it fired me up just
as much.
It was within a year if itwasn't six months is within a
year that there were court casescoming up about violations of
the Crown Act.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
I'm like yeah, really , you know, because people do it
.
You have to make regulationsbased on the stupidest person,
and I hate to say it like that,but that's basically or I'm
sorry, not the stupid the mostignorant person.
You have to make regulationbecause ignorance is a choice
you have to make.
You have to make those rulesfor the most ignorant population
(25:39):
and I'm sorry, I said it.
You can come at you, come at myInstagram if you want.
I'll probably just delete it,but whatever, fuck it.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
No, I absolutely agree.
And oh, I spoke about hostilework environment.
When the show was on, theywould talk about these cases and
these people won a lawsuitbecause one person refused to.
Every day, they wore a stickeron their shirt showing how many
days the plant had been with anaccident, and when they got them
(26:11):
666 days somebody refused andthen they kept firing the person
.
Hey, okay, don't wear thestupid fucking sticker.
Okay, whatever, oh, your mindfell off, or whatever.
But that was one of them andthey sued and they lost.
(26:31):
I mean, the employer lost, if Irecall correctly.
And another one, the person whowouldn't scan.
Do biometric scanning somethingto have to do with the devil?
It was some, I don't evenremember that one.
But if the the the devil's goingto come through you on a
fingerprint scanner as you'reclocking in or out at this place
(26:52):
, okay, you're cuckoo, but and Ithink, religious- accommodation
yeah, they, they won so yeah,but you make these dumb laws,
like you said, for the lowestcommon denominator, and I don't
know why I'm shocked, as jadedand cynical as I am, but to see
things like this happen, it'slike how, what, why, really?
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, it's very weird .
I will say, oh, that's theother thing, because I thought
religion was part of that.
So, like the protection ofreligion in the workplace,
wasn't that part of the EEOCrollback?
No, Okay, that wasn't.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
No yeah, not that I'm aware of that.
That wasn't the two webinarsI've done and the various email
things I've gotten.
Nobody's talked about religionin this, but you know, religion
has become stronger.
It used to be the most deminimis, oh yeah, we can't do
that.
If it was anything other thaneh, we know someone feel like it
(27:54):
, you know you could get awaywith it, but now religion is,
and I said we're going to beapolitical, I'm trying to be a
religious as well, but nowreligion.
You know people are coming upwith these whacked out religions
and it doesn't even have to bea religion, it just has be a
sincerely held belief.
Well, I sincerely, sincerelybelieve some people are fucked
(28:15):
up in the brain and I'm notgonna, I don't need to
accommodate their, theirsituation well, a reasonable
accommodation, right.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So like what's reasonable and I think that's.
I mean it's broad, but it'skind of broad for a reason yeah,
it is.
It is like if you're required tocome to work on the weekends
and then you say, hey, I, youknow, I practice a religion.
I can't do that.
Well, like this job, therequirement of this job is to be
here, like you know, likeaccommodations have to be
(28:49):
reasonable to the function ofthe company.
So I think, like that's anotherthing.
I think a lot of people whodon't understand HR get their
panties in a wad because theysay things like DEI, hire.
Don't say that that's a weirdthing to say.
But then they'll say thingslike I mean, I literally have
been consuming so much socialmedia over the past few days and
(29:12):
I will literally see peopledefining DEI and I'm not
exaggerating when I say this,this is like a direct quote.
People will be like, oh, dei isliterally hiring someone who is
qualified over someone who isqualified because of the color
of their skin.
And I'm like where are youfucking learning this?
And at the same time I'm likethey're learning from social
(29:34):
media.
But that's the thing, and it'slike what side of social media
are you learning this from?
Because it's not in thecrevices that I go to like not
what I'm learning.
Your algo is not.
Yeah, it's not where myalgorithm's going.
But at the same time, it's likepeople don't understand that
DEI really, and we could talkabout the DEI thing next.
(29:55):
Yeah, these illegal DEIpractices which, again, are very
broadly termed.
What does that even effing mean?
But people think DEI meanscolor of skin, when DEI is like
a broad umbrella of a lot ofthings.
It could be your race, it couldbe your gender, it could be
(30:18):
your sexuality, it could be thefact that you're over 40.
It could be the fact thatyou're a veteran, it can be.
I mean like literally everyonechecks one of those boxes and
it's just one of those thingswhere it's like you don't know
it, but you've probablybenefited from either DEI,
education, dei stuff and people.
(30:41):
Again, ignorance is a choice,but like they just don't choose
to Google anything other thanwhat they're being fed, so it's
incorrect information.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
But at the same time.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I'm just sitting here like empathy, managing to
different personality, likemanaging to different these are
all things that are under thatDEI umbrella.
So what now?
Is situational leadership goingto be a legal DEI because it's
telling you that you need tomanage, you need to change your
management style to where theperson is?
(31:15):
Is that now going to be illegalDEI?
It's such a broad term and it'sso foolish.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
It is, and there's two sides of this one too.
So you have I've said anynumber of times before you had
all these shyster companies andsome government agencies got
caught up in this, these reallybad DEI programs that you know,
if you're a white male, you sitin the back of the room and
you're not allowed to askquestions or anything.
There's been things like that.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
That's not inclusive.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Yeah, and and hell.
Look at that guy from thePhillies game, or not?
The Phillies, the Eagles game.
He's a DEI.
You know, all these companiesbought into these shysty DEI
programs.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
I'm sorry.
Go back to what you were saying.
Did you say he was a DEIprofessional?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah, the guy from the Eagles game that we talked
about two weeks ago or so.
He was a DEI.
He worked for a DEI consultingfirm.
Worked past tense.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
This might be the old-fashioned talking, but thank
God for the internet, thank Godfor the internet.
I love my favorite pastime thepast few weeks is watching
people just get burned for thestupid shit they say on the
internet.
Because the internet, ladiesand gentlemen, is forever.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Oh yeah, things have evolved.
I know for a fact the things Iwas saying in the 80s and 90s
would not fly at all today.
You know 80s, 90s, everythingwas gay people and we're not.
You know, it didn't matter Ifyou didn't like something, it
was gay.
I don't want to do that.
Oh, that's gay.
I'm not going to do that.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Or on the other side of it, straight, like oh, that's
straight, like that was theopposite, and it was like, yeah,
I totally get it.
Like, oh, that's so gay, oh,that's straight.
Like it doesn't age well, andit was slang that was used it.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
We used the r word, the, the dreaded r word.
All everybody was, I'll say itretarded.
That's retarded.
If it wasn't gay, it wasretarded.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
But you know, anyways , we're going way off topic, but
I will say there's a point tothat though, because like, yes,
we hear these things, we learnfrom these things and we don't
do those things once we learnthem right, yeah, exactly, and
it's not like a personal affrontfor me.
For some people it might be,but if someone just like
corrects you saying like, hey,that's offensive or hey, you
(33:35):
should consider a different word.
And then you adjust.
And we were talking about howwe're doing those extra, those
episodes of, like the officerewatches.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Oh yes.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
And next week we're going to be doing or not next
week, but the following week.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
We're recording next week.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Yeah, we're recording the following week.
We're recording next week.
Yeah, we're recording thefollowing week.
We're going to be.
Oh yeah, I forget.
We'll talk about our scheduleafterward.
Yeah, that's production, butwe're talking about the second
episode, which is Diversity Day,and I'm laughing because you
know that was aired what?
20 years ago or something.
Yeah, and I mean even the stuffin there.
I don't think I told you thiswhen we chatted last time, but
(34:14):
if you watch it on, if you watchthe Office on Comedy Central,
they go from the first episode,they skip Diversity Day and go
to the third episode.
Yes, I noticed that like aweekend or so ago and I was like
, did they just skip DiversityDay Because there's?
some stuff in there that's likenot great but at the same time
(34:35):
like it's kind of like thearchie bunker of it like they're
kind of facing things straighton and there's, in the way they
were, some value to that.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah, in fact, okay, the, the thing that comedy
central changed and we're goingdown another rabbit hole.
You know when he's in troublewith Phyllis and the only thing
I'm worried about is getting aboner and but they, that scene,
that scene is cut out on anyways, we'll get to.
(35:16):
We'll get to those episodeslater.
But the de trying to wranglethe cats in here on the add
brains we have.
But so the, the executive order, which is unfathomable because
you read it, and we're going toget rid of these illegal DEI
programs.
Okay, and I can understand.
(35:38):
Yeah, it's probably going toget rid of the shitey illegal
ones that are just flash in apan and some government agencies
got caught up in buying theseas well.
So that, amen, amen, I'm allfor.
But the dei is so misunderstoodand I shared an article with
(35:58):
you from last year.
You know I'm a I'm a little bitof a fan boy of mark cuban.
I I love what he's trying to doin the, the drug industry and
the medical industry as well.
I'm not a basketball fan, aprofessional definitely, and I
haven't watched college games inI don't know how long, but I
really like what he's doingthere.
But he put on Twitter or X orwhatever you want to call it.
(36:21):
Now he was like yeah, di onlycomes into play and I'm
paraphrasing him when I have twoequal candidates, then I'm
probably going to give the nodto the minority or the protected
class person, whatever it isthat he said.
And it's so funny because thechairman of the EEOC replied to
them and said well, actually,mark, that's illegal.
(36:43):
You're giving preference basedon race, which is illegal.
So, and and okay, I'm a fanI've admitted I'm a fan boy, so
maybe I'm giving him a pass onthis, but I think so many people
think that's what DEI is.
Let's do this, because, no,you're not doing it.
You're making the playing fieldlevel so everybody can have
(37:04):
that equal shot.
And if that equal shot meansit's going to an old white guy
like me, then that's how thecookie crumbles.
But the playing field was openfor anybody and everybody and it
wasn't a rigged game, andthat's what you're trying to do
with your DEI.
And maybe you are trying tofocus on hey, we do need to get
(37:25):
more fill-in-the-blank,underrepresented group in there.
So you do that at yourrecruiting thing.
We're going to advertise inthese forums and these websites
and things like that that tendto track more fill-in-the-blank
demographic that you're lookingfor and we're going to do more
outreach for this type of groupthat were underrepresented.
(37:46):
There's nothing wrong with that.
You're reaching out.
You'll get more applicants.
They're going to have to go tothe same rigmarole that
everybody else goes through and,as long as the laying field is
fair, yeah, you got moreapplicants of this protected
class than you, probably notmore than the non-protected
classes, but you had more thanyou would have if you didn't do
those outreach programs andthings like that.
(38:07):
So that's really what DEI isreally misunderstood with.
Getting rid of it I'm not a fanof because, once again,
sometimes you don't know or youdon't.
You know in the back of yourhead but you don't realize until
it's put in your face that, hey, this is wrong.
But I'm like, okay, but that'sthe person you're trying to
(38:29):
protect from and if you're adecent organization, you have
people in there.
That's going to put the brain.
A manager's going to saysomething stupid.
Like that manager's going tosay, oh, I don't want a woman
between 20 and 40 because Idon't want a loser to having a
baby, I don't want this.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Or man managers are going to say that and especially
they're going to put it inemails too.
And then I'm going to be likewhy.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
I've heard this from a few people.
I didn't experience it in mythird-party recruiting thing,
but I've heard hiring managerswill say the most ridiculous
stuff to a third-party recruiterbecause they think it
exonerates them.
Oh, we're using this agencyheadhunter or whatever this
recruiter to hire us so I cantell them yeah, I don't want a
woman between 20 and 40.
I want to make sure someone'sgoing to be here for a while.
(39:16):
Plus, have you looked at thelongevity rates of people?
The average person's onlystaying in a job like less than
three years.
now, I think, is the time, somake the best out of that three
years, and if you're doing wellyeah, if you're doing well as an
employer, maybe they're goingto stay for four or five, maybe
they'll do more.
But anything over over threeyears is I'm coming up on six at
(39:41):
my, my current job.
But anything over three yearsis like oh right, you're winning
.
You're winning the game rightnow.
Take, take the win and I live.
You know, outside of Virginiabeach, the world's largest
military complex, we havemilitary spouses coming going
all the time and around hereyou're not going to.
You say, oh, we're not going tohire a military, you're going
to be gone in three years.
Why would we hire you?
(40:02):
You would be blacklisted everywhich way to Sunday.
But you know, just take it.
Hey, I'm going to get the bestI can out of this person for the
next three years.
Give them a good workingenvironment and that's all you
have to do well, I'm sorry, Ithink.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
I think millennials are the ones that discovered the
secret that if you leave acompany and go to another one,
your pay increase.
Like your, your pay is gonnajump.
So I think that's a thing oflike, um, if you stay at a
company for a long time.
Your potential for income is soincremental.
But if you leave you can getthat sweet sweet negotiation and
(40:41):
you can actually, over the endof time, make more money.
So that's not a dei problem oranything.
That's just companies needingto promote or pay merit better
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
So yeah, keep up with the industry.
But anyways, where I was going,people don't understand DEI,
what it is, what it means.
They don't understandaffirmative action, what it is
and what it means.
Dei is basically opening thedoor and letting people know
what some acceptable behaviorsare.
Is I mean, honestly, in thisday and age, people maybe my age
(41:18):
and older, when you're havingto deal with bathrooms and
transgender issues that I Iwouldn't have even known what a
trans was 20 years ago, that youhear my, my kids are they.
They have trans friends andthey're right.
It's nothing to them, but to meit would be like, oh, you know,
(41:39):
at their age I'd be like whatthe hell is this?
Speaker 1 (41:41):
and I that's just the world.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
I was in.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
I was in the Kansas City Airport and I am just going
to give a shout out to thembecause they have the best
gender neutral bathroom.
Well, first, it's the only oneI've ever experienced, but it
was so great it was like.
So I don't know if you knowthis, but women's bathrooms get
a little backed up and I don'twant to wait on a line if I have
(42:07):
to go to the bathroom.
Okay, so, kansas City had thesegender neutral bathrooms and,
honestly, it was like a commonarea sink, which is fine.
I don't mind washing my handsnext to a man.
Let's wash hands together,let's practice hygiene.
But like the door, they weren'tlike traditional stalls, they
were like doors.
That was like ceiling to floor.
(42:27):
It was exceptional.
I was in and out so fast and Inever felt threatened and I peed
, I washed my hands, I got on myflight.
My life is no different than itwas before.
Just, you know, it's really not.
(42:48):
It's nothing groundbreaking,and I am just thankful to the
Kansas City Airport for allowingme to be able to pee and move
on.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Well, okay, you might be a little young for this.
I don't know if the show AllyMcBeal there was such a hubbub
that they had.
What was that in the early?
Was that early nineties, midninetiess?
Speaker 1 (43:11):
it was like it was mid to late 90s, but you're
right, they had they had an openrestroom thing and people were
in uproar.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
I mean I don't, there wasn't facebook back then.
I don't know how I know so muchof people were up.
I just remember people being inuproar and I didn't like.
I didn't watch ali mcbeal, Ididn't really care for it.
I I like Jane Krakowski.
She's funny as hell in so manyother things, but I didn't watch
the show.
But I know people were fired upabout the bathroom situation in
their office and I'm like okay.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
I'm not thinking about anything, man, I just want
to go to the bathroom.
Let me just go do that.
I don't care who's doing itnext to me, they might care.
I don't.
Like I have experienced asituation Like so.
People always say DEI is justto like, pander, to like certain
(44:04):
groups, and it's like.
I have seen it work in theopposite way.
Where there was, I might havetold the story before.
I'm sorry I might be becomingmy mother sharing the same
stories.
If you're new here,congratulations, it's new.
I same company as before withthe, the president, or the the
owner.
So the head engine, one of thehead engineers, he was an older
(44:26):
gentleman, like he at the timewas in his 70s.
He loved what he did and he wasgood at what he did and he he
was just there and he was doinga great job and he had a team.
He was hiring a new engineerand I remember him looking at
the candidates and there wasmathematical assessments they
had to take as part of theinterview process and the female
(44:48):
scored lower on thoseassessments based on, like, just
the scores.
Like we had a few femalecandidates, one of which scored
lower and basically, like thisis the standard, like I know
this is a piece of the puzzle,but you know, let's keep that in
mind.
And I do remember him walkinginto my office and him saying
(45:10):
well, we can like lower thescore a little bit because you
know, women aren't that strongat math compared to men.
To which I said these are thestandards we set, these are the
standards that we follow foreveryone.
If she does not meet thestandard, she does not meet the
standard.
So, like I get it, like I do,because that like and see.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Maybe he thinks he's being a good person, not by
saying that, right, and youmentioned he's a seven.
Maybe that's a generationalthing.
It's a generational thing.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
He's being polite.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
He's trying to be accommodating.
Maybe he has a hotspot as thiswoman.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Daisy, he did Honestly, she was a cutie and he
was like older and I'm like itcould have been, like I'm not
saying no, but who knows itcould have.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
It could have been.
Maybe it wasn't as as wholesomeas I was trying to make it out
to be as well, but that's that'sanother thing.
And I, you know, I want to knowand you were discussing this
off-air a bit which got mysquirrelly brain going
Harassment, because our trainingis Harassment plus DEI and we
(46:22):
have a company that does it forus and it's a good program, but
is this going to impactharassment?
You know, is it going to be?
Oh, you need to expect to.
You know, be oogled at or ogledat, whatever the word is.
Or, you know, get your assslapped every once in a while in
the office place and thingslike that.
(46:43):
And you know where is this linegoing to be?
Because, you know, is it goingto be one of those?
What do they call it?
The broken window.
First, you have this goes oh,nobody cares, you just broke one
window.
Next, you break another windowoh, nobody cares.
Next, the building doesn't haveany windows because you've
broken all the windows, maya.
So what's next?
Speaker 1 (47:04):
So my mom used to work in an office environment in
the 80s in the 80s and I doremember she was helping with
like, with interviews orsomething for I don't know what
position, but in any case, herboss basically said something
along the lines of I really likethis one candidate, who
(47:26):
happened to be a very attractivefemale, and she was like what
was it about it that you liked?
And he said I liked the way shewalked away from me.
And I'm just saying that theseare the things that we could be
(47:49):
letting slip through the cracksagain, if we're doing away with
DEI, if we're doing away withthe EEOC, if we're doing away
with all this stuff, because,again, this is the reality of
the world we live in and thoseguardrails were put in place for
a reason yeah.
(48:10):
I liked the way she walked awayfrom me, or I think he said he
liked the view as she walkedaway from him.
I think that's what he said.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Getting better.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
And I will say that the reason my mom or not the
reason, but my mom was drivingon her way to the interview.
An asshole kind of cut her offas she was, like kind of turning
toward the office for theinterview and what he did, she
slammed her horn and gave theguy the finger and when she
(48:41):
walked in and ended up being thehiring manager, oh, to which
they had an interview, and thenhe goes, you know what I like
your attitude, like you don'ttake shit from people, I can
tell.
And she ended up getting thejob.
But, my mom just like flickedthis guy off because he was an
asshole on the road.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Hey, that's awesome.
I like that story.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Yeah, yeah, so anyway , like that's just the stuff
that's on my mind.
It just drives me crazy and Ithink when people say that stuff
never happens, they're either Ihate like they're part of a
privileged group of people whonever had to like really worry
(49:26):
about that and to say that itdoesn't matter and to say that
it won't affect you is aprivilege, because there are
people that this will affect,and I also think about all the
DEI professionals who are in HRright now who are now working in
a quote unquote illegal field,and how many people are going to
(49:47):
lose their jobs over this aswell.
Like there's a lot of things.
And also look at Target.
I mean there's just lists everyday of companies that are
dropping DEI, oh did.
Target.
Target just dropped DEI and Idon't know if you heard this,
but like Target dropped DEI.
So now Minnesota Pride, whereTarget is headquartered, dropped
(50:13):
Target from the Pridesponsorship.
They're like we don't need yourmoney, target.
And when they did that, becauseI think Target gave like
$50,000 toward the Pride event,they're like you can suck it.
And then they ended up raising$75,000 because of that act.
And there are companies that doDEI performatively.
I now believe Target is one ofthem, because I do believe
(50:35):
Target started their DEIinitiative right after George
Floyd and they were doing it ina way, and a lot of companies
did, a lot of companies did.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
That's when DEI really exploded.
Yes, before Floyd, it reallywas a thing.
That's when it exploded becausein that brief period of time
you had Brianna, you had GeorgeFloyd I can't remember Brianna's
last name you had a lot of notso good social injustice issues
(51:03):
going on at that immediate time.
But yeah, but DEI itself is anillegal.
It's illegal DEI and which isnot being defined so what does
that mean?
Yeah, it doesn't like again.
The million dollar question isis that now?
Speaker 1 (51:17):
going to be talking about, like I mean, I'm thinking
about things like, uh, workingwith neurodivergent people.
Like that's dei, we can't talkabout that anymore.
Is it showing empathy at work?
Empathy is a code word for DEI,so we can't do that anymore,
like it's just.
And now I'm hearing likewhispers that there's going to
(51:38):
be like a task force in thegovernment that's like, oh,
we're going to be paying outpeople who basically rat their
companies out to be like, hey,my company's doing a training
and now I get like a $30,000 orsome whatever, some fee for
basically like a rat line.
And I don't know but I don'tknow how many of you went to
(52:01):
school but snitches get stitches.
Stop your shit.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Yeah, but yeah it's, it's crazy and, like I said, my
stance as of right now,personally and professional
let's not get overly excitedabout it right now,
professionally, we had 90 daysfrom whatever the inaction of
the order to be compliant withthese orders.
(52:28):
So let's see exactly how itshakes out and maybe they'll
give us more direction on someof these very broad, vague
things.
Because the holes in theseexecutive orders you can drive a
bus through.
And if you and I read the samething and both being I think
we're both kind of smart peoplebut we can get different
(52:55):
readings of not knowing what todo out of the same thing.
If we can't, if we don't knowwhat to do, and the attorneys of
my law firm they're sayingwe're still trying to parse this
all together and you know, just, you know, be ready, make plans
(53:17):
, start getting ready, but don'ttake any action quite yet
unless you know you're doingsomething overtly wrong.
But another thing that went awayall these VIRVA audits.
Okay, I don't know if I evermentioned on the podcast like
three years ago my company gothit with a V audit, the Vietnam
era veterans readjustment Act.
Oh gosh, our company is 40 pluspercent prior service.
(53:40):
Our COO is a retired Admiral.
We have so much military.
We work on Navy ships.
Because we're a civiliancontractor working on these Navy
ships, we hire a lot of peoplefrom the Navy who worked on
these ships and we've won I'lltoot my own horn here we've won
some best for vets and amilitary friendly.
We've won those type of awardsand accolades and things like
(54:02):
that.
And yet we still got a VIRVAaudit.
That ended up we passed withflying colors, no problems at
all.
But in attorney's fees it wasover $50,000 in attorney's fees
to represent us in our VERBAaudit, vevra, whatever you want
to say audit.
And not only was it $50,000 ofattorney's fees, it was just the
(54:25):
complete obnoxiousness.
You know.
Here's our 4142.
Check us out we're doing.
You know there's no way you cansay we're discriminating
against veterans in this, thisthing.
And they, they wanted to, youknow.
And they, they overstepped, inmy opinion, if they're a verva,
they overstepped theirboundaries.
(54:45):
I thought they wanted to go inour bathrooms, make sure they
are handicapped accessible, andthey are, you know.
You know we have handicapparking, so they want to make
sure we have this.
And we, you know, we do.
You know it.
It should have been okay, fiveminutes.
Here's our last 10 years of4142s.
Walk around, look at ourbathrooms all day long, look,
(55:06):
and we're compliant.
But no, it was months and monthsand they would just ask that.
I can't remember any of thesedumb ass questions.
They'd ask and why this and whythat?
And uh, I'm like I, I don'tknow why.
Oh, I remember one time aveteran who was disabled at one
(55:26):
of the accommodations theywanted.
They needed a special chair andyou know what.
They came to me in hr and saidoh, I need a different chair to
you know, support, my, I saidsend me a link.
That's all I said send me alink.
She had it like within a weekand it wasn't.
Well, let's talk about areasonable accommodation.
Okay, a 500 chair?
Oh yeah, I'm going to pay that.
(55:47):
I'm going to pay that, I'mgoing to buy that tomorrow and
not, I don't know.
I will be very happy that theseVerva audits, these EEO audits.
Well, eeo, if you're notplaying the game right, yeah,
you need to be audited and youneed to be punished.
But I think 99% of people aredoing the right thing, at least
I hope.
Maybe I'm being naive, but that1% that's not needs to be
(56:12):
hammered and hammered hard, butthe rest of us leave us.
Oh, here's the other thing, andI've been on my soapbox.
I don't know if I've done it onthe podcast, even though we're
well over an hour recording.
Now we're going to be doingsome editing here, but I hate
the EO1 report.
I hate the 4142.
(56:38):
We're a good employer, we dowhat we think, we pay social
security taxes.
So therefore you have all ouremployees and their social
security numbers.
So you know better than I dowhat their race is, what their
disability they may have, theirveteran status.
You know all that fun stuffmore than I do.
I will never forget.
For EEO purposes, if someonedoes not fill out the form, the
self-identification form, youget to either A make an
(57:01):
assumption of what they are or,b they become a white male.
Everybody becomes a white maleif otherwise.
So those are the rules of theEEO and I'll never forget.
We had a new HRS system at thiscompany and when people did, I
forget what they had to do.
But we asked them to checktheir demographic information
out to make sure it was accurate, and somebody got very upset
(57:25):
that they were listed in thereas a white female when they are
Native American.
I didn't make that assumptionthat predated me, but somebody
made that assumption and Iwouldn't have ever known.
But they got upset about it andI'm like, okay, well, and I
went back and you know, this wasin the day, pen and paper was
like I said it was a new HRSsystem.
They put the refuse to identifyand I'm like, okay, if that's
(57:49):
fine, you want to do that.
But they got upset thatsomebody made the assumptions on
their behalf.
But oh well, that just issomething that always stood out
to me, how upset they got aboutthat.
I'm like it's easy to fix.
We can Do a little drop downand choose Native American from
the drop down box.
Real, quick and easy.
Speaker 1 (58:09):
It's an annual self-identification campaign
Like hey, like just a push to belike you know, go in your HRIS
and update things like you knowyour demographics, yeah, like
that's all self-identifiable.
So you got to.
This is just a friendlyreminder that you should do it
(58:29):
if you're asked.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (58:31):
And you know I don't get offended.
Speaker 1 (58:32):
I don't get offended.
Speaker 2 (58:33):
I have a crew who can say you're Native American.
Well, we're going to fire youtomorrow because we don't allow
them here.
But I think that also.
Speaker 1 (58:41):
So I think that kind of also speaks to the just like
this inner fear that peopleprobably have, that people are
probably like wired with from ayoung age that I mean it's a
perspective that I don'tunderstand because I'm a white
female, but I can imagine, likesomebody who has those fears in
(59:02):
them, they might not want toself-identify because they've
probably experienced things intheir life that kind of makes
and this is why DEI and this iswhy all that stuff is important
you feel like they belong andfeel like they are not
discriminated against and peopleaccept them for who they am.
(59:32):
Something very magical happensand it's called retention.
So there is a very goodbusiness case for DEI, not just
like the oh it's a basic humanneed to be empathetic.
Like you should probably havesome empathy and if you don't,
(59:53):
maybe you should see someone,end of the day, like it's a very
good business case, like wedon't want to be continuously
recruiting for roles becausepeople are leaving, because they
work in an environment thatmakes them uncomfortable, that
makes them this, that makes themthat, like there's solid
business cases for this.
And the one thing I've learnedin HR is you got to talk to
(01:00:17):
people in terms of money, notthe touchy, feely pieces,
because that's where you mightlose some senior leaders.
So when you make a businesscase on how to push something or
you have an initiative that youwant to propose, tie it back to
ROI and money.
But yeah, Absolutely.
(01:00:37):
DEI is not touchy-feely.
It's actually good for thebusiness it is.
Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Absolutely.
That's the title of our podcasttoday.
Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Suck on that.
Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
That'll be the second part of the title.
One thing you were saying aboutself-identifying you know I
talk to my son is applying toall these internships and he is
on the autism spectrum.
But when it comes to that sideof it he just puts I decline to
identify because he doesn't wantto lie.
But he doesn't want, he doesn'tthink of himself in that way.
You know, he's brilliantlysmart.
(01:01:10):
He used to be teased by membersof our own family calling him
Dr Sheldon Cooper because he isbrilliantly smart.
But sometimes the social cuesare out of his reach.
But as he's gotten older he'sdone a lot better with it.
But he asked me he's done a lotbetter, uh, with it.
(01:01:31):
But he asked me what do I put?
I said I said I said go aheadand mark it, you know uh.
I said nobody said until it'stime to run these reports,
nobody looks at it.
Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Those reports aren't like that.
Demographic information isn'tavailable to the hiring manager.
No, exactly back end stuff.
The hiring manager isn'tlooking to see if you have any
disabilities, like they don'tknow that and honestly they're
probably not going to know thatunless you tell them, especially
if it's something invisiblelike that you know, in our
(01:02:04):
system, our recruiter, the onlypeople who have access to the
self-identification informationare me and my HR assistant.
Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Our recruiter doesn't have access to it.
And you know when do we use it?
When we're doing ouraffirmative action and EO plans.
That's when we use thatinformation.
And so nobody along the hiringprocess sees that info.
Nobody cares.
Nobody's asking you.
By the way, what is the dealwith Warren?
What's his?
You know.
Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Yeah, For me.
I want to see if he has anylatent disabilities that we
don't know about.
Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
That's not how that works Undiagnosed.
Add out the yin-yang.
Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
Neurodivergency is fun yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Yeah, so, anyways, we've been ranting.
I'm going to try and edit thisto be under an hour even though
it's been well over an hour, butwe'll, we'll see.
I hope you enjoyed this verylong episode, but it's all been
a lot of fun.
And you know, we know we wentdown a lot of rabbit holes,
which maybe I'll edit some out.
But yeah, you know, this isimportant and we'll probably
(01:03:14):
talk a little bit more aboutthis as more becomes available.
You know the the jaded part ofthis is you're throwing all this
shit at us without anydirection and nobody's knowing.
I mean, you know, if this iswhat you want to do, fine, I'll
get over it, I'll live and theworld will live and every babe
will.
Ultimately, the country will bejust fine, and however many
more years, but everything'sgoing to be.
We've survived worse in thiscountry and in the world, so
(01:03:37):
let's not, let's not overreact,but let's just take it with a
grain of salt and see what comes.
But I'm sure this is going togive us a lot more fodder to to
discuss in the in futureepisodes as things go and then
when the lawsuits come out aboutit.
That's going to be a lot of funtoo and they're starting.
Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
So I'm very interested and and not to make a
long episode even longer, but Iwill be watching the, because I
think the fbi agents are nowfiling a lawsuit against.
They're filing a lawsuit for infor unjust firing, because as
retaliation.
So, oh, because they were likeyou know the january 6th stuff
(01:04:16):
and they were all let go.
So now it's like now they'refiling a lawsuit, which I think
is justifiable.
They should fire a lawsuitbecause that is retaliation.
They were just doing their jobyeah, I.
Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
I saw something.
I didn't do any.
I saw something on it.
I saw a headline.
I didn't dive into it or lookat it.
Get that money.
Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
I don't stand for retaliation, so get that money,
grab that bag.
Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Yeah, so we'll just have so much for the next
episode.
We could keep going on this,but anyhow, thank you for
listening and for if you've madeit through this whole episode.
We love you.
You've been, it's been, I don'tknow.
We've done a couple episodesover an hour in the past, but
it's been a long time.
I I my target is 30 minutes,but I don't think the last, I
don't know the last time we'vedone a 30 minute episode either.
(01:05:06):
It's been around 40.
It's an hour now it's an hournow, oh, hour 15 right now, and,
like I said, it'll be well,I'll let it.
I'll see what I can do in themagic magic of editing tomorrow
night.
So anyways, as always, I'mwarren, I'm cc and we're here
helping you survive hr1.
What the fuck?
Moment at a time?
(01:05:26):
What the fuck?
Yeah, exactly what the fuck.
you are about to listen to could contain explicit
language and offensive content.
These HR experts' views are notrepresentative of their past,
present or future employers.
If you have ever heard, mymanager is unfair to me.
I need you to reset my HRportal password.
Or Can I write up my employeefor crying too much?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to our little safe zone.
Welcome to Jaded HR, thepodcast by two HR professionals
(00:56):
who want to help you get throughthe workday by saying
everything you're thinking, butsay it out loud.
I'm Warren.
I'm Cece it out loud I'm Warren,I'm Cece and I'm apologizing
for the horrible, horrible audioin the last two episodes.
So big secret, sometimes werecord more than one at a time,
so we can actually live life alittle, and apparently I was.
(01:22):
I'm assuming I was using myheadphone microphones rather
than my awesome Samsung Q2A orwhatever it is, but anyways,
awful audio.
Hopefully today this will bebetter.
I'm looking at a little chartof my voice and it's getting up
to the yellows, so I'm thinkingit might be better this time.
So apologies apologies,apologies.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
And I want to apologize because I'm not sure
if it was me or the micsituation last week, but I
didn't realize how loud I talkand I should have taken a clue
when I talked to my husband theother day and he was like you're
so loud, it's just the two ofus, but I'm a projector, so I
apologize if I blew youreardrums off because I was
(02:04):
listening to the last recordingand I'm like gosh, my mic
technique needs to get better.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, speaking of people being, I think I
mentioned before, we juststarted watching Modern Family
and after a few episodes my wifehas to turn it off.
She says I can't stand all theyelling.
I can't stand all the yelling.
So we're almost through withthat show, so we're going to be
on to our next very, very soon.
So well, we actually did ourhomework a little bit this week
(02:34):
and have some topics to talkabout.
But I also wanted to bring upone other thing, a social media
sour grapes thing.
I'm to, I think I don't think Iknow I saved it sour grapes
yeah, so I.
There's a new car.
Scout Motors is coming out withnew cars in 2026 or maybe 2027,
(02:58):
and so I've been followingScout Motors online because I'm
most likely going to be buyingone.
I don't buy the car the firstyear it comes out, but the
second year I'm going to buy oneof them because I really like
everything I've seen about it.
Well, I follow them on alltheir little social medias.
(03:19):
This one dude they're talkingabout the new two Scout vehicles
that have come out.
One's an SUVv, one's a pickuptruck and he's.
And one thing I like aboutscout motors they're engaging
with the people who follow themon social media and if you make
a comment, a lot of timesthey're going to comment back
and they answer questions andit's, you know, for a product
(03:41):
that's not on the market yetmight not be out of the market
for two years.
I I think it's really, reallycool.
So I'm following him on socialmedia.
And this one dude he getsonline and he's listed as a top
fan.
This is from Facebook.
It's been a real disappointingweek for Scout.
As an experienced engineerworking the automotive, I was
discarded as a potentialemployee.
(04:02):
From what I feel, it's just asimple difference on how
automakers launch their newvehicles.
I keep my pride.
However, scout needs tounderstand their loss and I was
like maybe this dude is justcompletely deep.
You know, maybe you didn't gethired this time you plug into
(04:23):
the next opportunity, or maybewhen I'm recruiting I've had I
can't count the number ofcandidates they didn't work this
job.
Right now I call them back whenI have another and guess who
wouldn't be getting a call back.
It's like I said this that guy,he, this, this company, they're
active on it there, they respond, they, they, they.
(04:45):
They didn't respond to hismessage.
A lot of other people did.
It looks like are youdisappointed because you weren't
hired?
It sounds like it's not Scout'sloss, but people are.
You know just why?
Just you know why?
A lot of the stuff are on this?
Because Scout is an electricvehicle and a lot of people are.
(05:05):
You know.
Oh too bad, this is an EV, itwould be great if it had a Turbo
6 and all these other things.
People are disparaging it, butthey're in there sometimes.
Oh well, we do.
They respond in kind, butanyways, I just thought really,
why go on their product page tobitch and moan about it?
(05:28):
Anyways, I was saying he's anelectrical engineer.
I hire electrical engineers.
He's going to make me thinktoys about.
You know, if our recruiter is I, she sees me on all her resume
submissions and I peak at about60, 70% of them.
I don't read the resumes butI'm like, oh, that's a good
(05:49):
resume.
I, you know, I want to say, hey, this is a good resume, I like
this good work and things likethat.
I don't, I'm not involved inthe hiring process, I just like
to look and so I would probablysay, whoa, let's talk about this
dude before we get too faralong.
So that's awesome.
Social media.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
There is a.
There's a podcast for anyonenon HR related that I just like
to throw out there.
If you, if you're a big fan ofexamining the psychology of what
people put in reviews and kindof the stupidity that people
write in reviews online, a greatpodcast is my stupid or your
stupid opinion Great.
And kind of the stupidity thatpeople write in reviews online A
(06:26):
great podcast is your stupidopinion Great.
I'm not affiliated with them.
I enjoy it every week, soimagine all that stuff, but just
a podcast.
So if you're looking forsomething non-HR related to
cleanse your palate, your stupidopinion is great.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I just wrote it down.
I'm going to check that out.
As I tell you, I recently wentthrough and I purged my podcast
list.
It's things that I'm notenjoying anymore for various
reasons, and one of my very,very favorite podcasts overall,
by topic.
It's like their audio qualityis so much and they have credits
(07:02):
and our producer is da-da-da-da.
I'm like your producer must bea six-year-old.
This is even my.
Our last two weeks episodessound a lot better than any of
their episodes and I'm just soclose to calling it quits as
it's.
It's so I've turned offepisodes in the middle.
That I'm interested in is.
I just can't listen to itanymore but they, they don't
record anymore.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
what is it?
The oh, oh the podcast?
It's an HR podcast.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
HR Famous.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
HR Famous Tim.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Sackett, and JD.
And oh gosh, who's the third?
Lee Lee Lee.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
So I loved their content.
Yes, but Lee had to get amicrophone.
Like I would listen to thatpodcast and I'm one to talk
because I'm like shouting into amicrophone and I apologize if I
was doing that, but but I thinkshe was like recording from
like old fashioned plug inearbuds because I just wanted to
(07:56):
scream every time I listened.
I'm like everything you'resaying is valid and amazing,
great content, fun.
Get a better mic.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
You're a VP of a company, you can afford a better
mic.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Well, I think they would do their podcast.
I remember him saying once upona time and they just went off
the air and I am very upsetabout that but they would just
do it either early in themorning before they start their
day, or during lunch orsomething that you know they
were just squeezing it in whenthey can.
But you know, I'm down to Idon't know how many podcasts on
(08:31):
my three, six, nine, 12, 15.
I'm down to like 18 podcasts,but I still have on here hostile
work environment and where theyhaven't recorded in forever.
Surfing corporate they haven'trecorded in forever.
And then you have but yeah,I've just purged a whole bunch,
just got rid of them.
But everyone's one like servernot serving corporate well, they
(08:52):
did the same thing.
But also work environment theywent there for like two years
and then all of a sudden,because I still had it in my
list, I'm listening and the nextone up is is them.
I'm like whoa great, and thenthey're.
So I keep it there, but I hopethat they'll come back.
So, mark and Kate, if you everlisten to us at all, we had Kate
on one time.
Bring it back, please.
(09:13):
But anyways.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
So I'm laughing because, speaking of which and
then we can get into the meatyHRE conversation.
But I did have a moment where Iwas just being very chatty.
I think my ADHD got the best ofme and I overshared and I ended
up telling my boss about thisand he wrote it down.
So if my manager's listening,hi and don't hold anything
(09:38):
against me, Thanks.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Oh, so your boss knows you're on the show now.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Oh so your boss knows you're on the show now.
He was like asking about likeHR podcasts to listen to and I
was like wow.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Promote.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
There we go.
And then afterward I was likewas that smart?
But it's fine, I don't.
It's not like.
I mean, I speak very highly ofmy company and my manager, so
we're fine, we're fine.
I speak very highly of mycompany and my manager, so we're
fine.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
We're fine.
Well, my assistant found out Idon't share it with people at
work that I do a podcast.
My assistant found out as wewent to a conference and I ran
into several old co-workers whoworked with Patrick and I and
they were there when we firstannounced we're doing a podcast
(10:26):
and they listen regularly.
So Lisa, desiree, hey, but theystart talking to the podcast
and then Anna, my assistant,starts asking you have a podcast
?
I'm like, yeah, and so I don'tgo out blurting it about, but
I'm recording one of our openenrollment sessions right now.
I'm using our podcast softwareto edit it because it's better
(10:46):
than it's.
I know how to use it and I cando it quickly.
When we recorded one of ourepisodes, I can get it out to
the the employees pretty quickly.
So, yeah, that's so.
I'm not hiding it, but I'm notlike promoting it at work, but I
will be promoting it at theVirginia Sherm conference in
middle of April.
So if you're going to be downhere, look for me.
I'll be handing out littlecards with a QR code and
(11:08):
something like that.
So, yay, let's see.
Before we get into the meat ofour subject, let's go ahead and
do our thank yous to our Patreonsupporters Hallie, the original
Jaded HR rock star, bill andMike.
So thank you all very much.
Your support is very muchappreciated because we are, like
I think I said, maybe inDecember we renewed our
(11:30):
subscription to the recordingand editing software.
Thanks to you.
Thank you for that.
So, yep, that's, that's what wehave going on.
So the topic of the day andwe're going to try to keep this
as apolitical as we can of theday and we're going to try to
keep this as apolitical as wecan it's gonna be all the
wonderful fun executive eldersflying out of the, the White
House right now and the thewonderful time it's creating for
(11:54):
HR professionals.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
So what a time what a time.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I just wanna?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
I just wanna let everyone know that I am drinking
in old-fashioned cuz that isthe time I am having.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
It's empty, it is gone.
We're going to have to pause.
We're now pausing for a shortcommercial break, but yeah, so
we're not going to, you know,get too political.
As I, you know, I've mentionedbefore, I despise when I'm
listening for whatever contentthey want to get, especially if
I'm in a sport, if I'm listeningto sports podcasts and all of a
(12:26):
sudden, I don't want to hearyour politics in my sports at
all period, end of story.
But anyways, yeah, so where to?
Which executive order?
Which shakeup, which change doyou want to start with today?
We could do a week's worth ofepisodes on just the first, you
know week of executive ordersand their impact on HRs.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Seriously, yeah, we can talk about the EEOC piece.
Okay, because I want to prefacethis by saying I live in talent
management.
I know enough to be dangerous.
A lot of me is just thinkingout loud.
Do not hold it against me.
I'm an old-fashioned deep andyeah, I'm yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yeah, I can actually see it both ways.
I think there's a lot ofoverreaction from people about
some of these executives.
Some of them need to be reactedto as they are.
Some of them there's someoverreaction to, but and, and
some of them, it's like you know, regard.
This is probably as politicalas I get.
If trump says today is tuesday,february 4th, which it is,
(13:36):
somebody's gonna get their asschapped so badly about that
because it's the most marvelousday and this is a great day and
the fourth is always thegreatest day.
You know he speaks weirdly insuperlatives all the time, but
even if he's saying somethingthat's absolutely factual, he's
gonna he's gonna piss somebodyoff.
You know, something liketoday's Tuesday, and I've seen a
(13:59):
lot of that stuff to the pointwhere really, people okay, it's
time to come up for air a littlebit, but anyways, yeah I give,
I give people grace, justbecause you know people are
scared, they're worried, yeah I,I and I can understand that,
but, yeah, it's so.
The eoc so with and I learnedthis my our labor and employment
(14:24):
attorneys have been doing guestwebinars, like three a week
lately, and I haven't done themall.
Some of them are likeimmigration and things like that
.
We don't have to worry aboutimmigration where I work, but
the executive order forgovernment contractors, which
goes straight into the EEOC andthe Affirmative Action, is
something that I'm paying very,very close attention to and so
(14:47):
it is interesting just topreface that like so, Warren,
you work for a company that is agovernment contractor, yes, and
I work for a company that isprivate equity, private sector.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
So I think, yeah, there's like there's that
there's a difference there.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yes, yeah, yeah, there's like there's that
there's a difference there.
Yes, yeah, because, like evenour contracts and our president,
the president of our companyand I were taught we've had in
the past week we've had know,does the executive order mean
(15:24):
that poof?
Normally, when a governmentcontractor does any change like
the slightest change, like ohwell, okay, we're going to need
one more software developer thanyou bid for for this, so it
goes through a contract mod andit's a whole big thing to do
what you know.
Hey, I need another softwaredeveloper.
(15:44):
Okay, fine, it's not that easy.
But so to take the affirmativeaction out, are they going to do
a whole contract mod for this?
And you know, one of therevocations of and I don't know
the numbers of these executiveorders, but the one that's one
of the many that's causing astir is the revocation of
(16:07):
affirmative action in theworkplace.
So it's really interesting andit's funny.
I learned about it first on myway, like Thursday I did a
webinar with our attorneys, andthen Friday I was listening to
Good Morning HR with Mike Coffeyand he's discussed the same
thing, but I didn't know thisAffirmative action, eeo is not a
(16:28):
law and it was actually anexecutive order by Johnson.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
LBJ.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, that created it .
So because it was done byexecutive order, any president
can go on and say, well, thisone doesn't count anymore.
And that's pretty much exactlywhat happened.
But the difference is, when itcomes to veterans and
disabilities, those are codifiedlaws.
The ADA is an actual law thatthe president it has to go
(16:56):
through Congress to change theveterans.
The protections are actual law.
So you know, that's why thisall happened.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Do you know where country of origin is still?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Do you know where country of origin is still?
Because I remember it's race,gender, country of origin and
then there's disability andstuff like that.
So I that pretty much destroysyour affirmative action plan.
You can still report on veteranstatus and disability, but race
and gender are the ones thatare under the target.
My next webinar I'll throw thatin the question and answer
(17:46):
sessions.
I'm doing another later thisweek with the attorneys, as
they're just rapid firing thesethings out.
Like I said, there's been threea week since last week, so but
yeah, I'll throw that questionout there.
But it's it's really, it'sreally interesting.
And one of the things as anaffirmative action employer EEO,
affirmative action employer theexecutive order requires us to
(18:07):
remove.
Well, the first executive orderrequired us to have that little
blurb at the bottom of your jobpostings.
We are an affirmative actionequal employment opportunity.
We don't da, da, da, da da.
Now employers have like 90 daysto be compliant and our
philosophy is we're going towait till like day 85 to do
anything.
(18:27):
And I'm being serious, I laugh.
I'm being serious because Iwould be very surprised if a
judge didn't step in and eitherjust pause it or just throw it
out completely.
Some group out there is goingto find a sympathetic judge.
That's what they do.
You think that these thingsmysteriously end up in certain
(18:49):
judges' laps?
No, they find the district.
Okay, we need you to bring upthis lawsuit in this district so
we can have this judge.
And yeah, that's exactly whatthey're doing.
But it's going to beinteresting.
But but are we?
We're still going to berequired to?
Hey, we don't discriminateagainst veterans or veterans
status of disability as well.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
But in the other part and I don't know if it's the
same executive order or not isthe ending of illegal DEI
programs and I've covered so Ithink this is where I'm so, this
is where I'm like, personallystruggling and this is so like
the so back to like the EEOCstuff.
Like those things were broughtinto place because bad behaviors
(19:32):
were happening and I think I Ifeel like we put guardrails I'm
gonna say this very kindly, butI'm gonna say it very bluntly we
put guardrails in for thelowest common denominator, we
put guardrails in for the, forpeople the redneck good old boy
(19:55):
who act, I like, ah, sobasically, like there are, there
are things and I and I I wouldhate to think and I will say
this because I want to clarifythis is not at my current
company, this is at pastcompanies, but I don't know.
So I was in charge of recruiting, essentially for my new boss's
(20:18):
boss.
It was a really fun position tobe put into.
It was like the new head of HRfor a company and they just
basically said Christina, you'rethe only person here that can.
That's recruiting, so you findit.
So I was like recruiting for mymanager's boss, that's
recruiting, so you find it.
So I was like recruiting for mymanager's boss.
And I remember we were in a roomand the the president and the
(20:39):
owner of that company said witha dead ass serious face well, I,
it was.
Oh, by the way, backtrack, itwas two candidates.
We were down to a white maleand a white female, and he said
(21:02):
that the female candidate, thewoman candidate, drove up in a
red BMW to her interview.
That's the car she chose todrive.
And he said I have an issuewith that because that doesn't
really fit with the culture here, to which my jaw dropped on the
floor, because these biaseshappen and I don't think people
(21:26):
understand and I'm speaking as awhite woman, right, these
biases happen.
And I'm speaking as a whitewoman, right, these biases
happen and I witnessed it andthankfully, I mean I'm going to
put a little asterisk next tothis.
I was an itty bitty girl, like Ijust started, like I didn't
have the backbone to stand up tothe president of the company,
(21:47):
but thankfully someone in theroom did, and then I had the
strength to then back it up.
But the question was, I don'treally think that the car she
drives is going to affect theway in which she does her work.
And long story short, spoileralert we ended up or they ended
(22:09):
up deciding on the mail andguess who showed up to work?
Guess what, he showed updriving to work.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
A red BMW, please, please.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
But like.
So these are the behaviors thathappen.
So I would hate to think that,because we're no longer, like,
supposed to do it, that we'regoing to start reverting back,
because they happen.
And I know, like it's one ofthose lessons that I learned to
be a better advocate, because inhindsight I was like, but at
(22:42):
the same time you're young,you're new to career, you don't
want to like piss off thepresident of the company, but at
the same time, like I'm gladsomeone else in there with
tenure, what did speak up,because that shit pissed me off
and I hear it and I I hear theselittle micro like oh, it's like
, oh, and I would hate to thinkthat someone would be passed up
(23:06):
for a promotion because they'repregnant, or someone's passed up
for a promotion because they'retoo old, or someone is passed
up for like.
These are the things that worryme, because now there's no
protection against that and Iknow we'd like to think that
racism is dead, but racism andmisogyny is alive and well.
(23:27):
So like we're taking away thesethings and we're not doing
anything to protect our workers.
And spoiler alert today I don'tknow if you saw the bill to
like get rid of, but that'sanother thing to like.
These are, as an HRprofessional, like I'm not
getting political.
This is more morally no like.
Yeah, I get.
Like you're going to deregulateOSHA, like health and safety,
(23:52):
and next we're going to have 80hour work weeks because we're
going to get rid of the 40-hourwork week.
We don't need regulation aboutthat.
So we keep chiseling away atthese little things that are
going to take us back to thetriangle fire and people are
going to die at work.
And people are going to die atwork.
And I know it sounds like I'mcatastrophizing but at the same
(24:13):
time, I don't think I am,because these things were put
into place for a reason.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Oh, they absolutely were, because, just like all
these, you hear these things andyou think, oh, that's a stupid
law.
I'll go back to season one, oneof the first episodes Patrick
and I did, that's when the CrownAct got passed and you can hear
me talking and say what astupid waste of time to make a
dumbass law.
Who the hell discriminates onthe basis of hair.
(24:41):
I was just like why, why?
Why it wasn't six months untilthere was a case brought up on
it, and I'm like I literallyjust can't fathom that.
I really and I just I don'tknow, and you can listen to me
on that episode.
(25:02):
This is so stupid.
I don't know why they did it.
It really fired me up back then, but then it fired me up just
as much.
It was within a year if itwasn't six months is within a
year that there were court casescoming up about violations of
the Crown Act.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
I'm like yeah, really , you know, because people do it
.
You have to make regulationsbased on the stupidest person,
and I hate to say it like that,but that's basically or I'm
sorry, not the stupid the mostignorant person.
You have to make regulationbecause ignorance is a choice
you have to make.
You have to make those rulesfor the most ignorant population
(25:39):
and I'm sorry, I said it.
You can come at you, come at myInstagram if you want.
I'll probably just delete it,but whatever, fuck it.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
No, I absolutely agree.
And oh, I spoke about hostilework environment.
When the show was on, theywould talk about these cases and
these people won a lawsuitbecause one person refused to.
Every day, they wore a stickeron their shirt showing how many
days the plant had been with anaccident, and when they got them
(26:11):
666 days somebody refused andthen they kept firing the person
.
Hey, okay, don't wear thestupid fucking sticker.
Okay, whatever, oh, your mindfell off, or whatever.
But that was one of them andthey sued and they lost.
(26:31):
I mean, the employer lost, if Irecall correctly.
And another one, the person whowouldn't scan.
Do biometric scanning somethingto have to do with the devil?
It was some, I don't evenremember that one.
But if the the the devil's goingto come through you on a
fingerprint scanner as you'reclocking in or out at this place
(26:52):
, okay, you're cuckoo, but and Ithink, religious- accommodation
yeah, they, they won so yeah,but you make these dumb laws,
like you said, for the lowestcommon denominator, and I don't
know why I'm shocked, as jadedand cynical as I am, but to see
things like this happen, it'slike how, what, why, really?
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, it's very weird .
I will say, oh, that's theother thing, because I thought
religion was part of that.
So, like the protection ofreligion in the workplace,
wasn't that part of the EEOCrollback?
No, Okay, that wasn't.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
No yeah, not that I'm aware of that.
That wasn't the two webinarsI've done and the various email
things I've gotten.
Nobody's talked about religionin this, but you know, religion
has become stronger.
It used to be the most deminimis, oh yeah, we can't do
that.
If it was anything other thaneh, we know someone feel like it
(27:54):
, you know you could get awaywith it, but now religion is,
and I said we're going to beapolitical, I'm trying to be a
religious as well, but nowreligion.
You know people are coming upwith these whacked out religions
and it doesn't even have to bea religion, it just has be a
sincerely held belief.
Well, I sincerely, sincerelybelieve some people are fucked
(28:15):
up in the brain and I'm notgonna, I don't need to
accommodate their, theirsituation well, a reasonable
accommodation, right.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So like what's reasonable and I think that's.
I mean it's broad, but it'skind of broad for a reason yeah,
it is.
It is like if you're required tocome to work on the weekends
and then you say, hey, I, youknow, I practice a religion.
I can't do that.
Well, like this job, therequirement of this job is to be
here, like you know, likeaccommodations have to be
(28:49):
reasonable to the function ofthe company.
So I think, like that's anotherthing.
I think a lot of people whodon't understand HR get their
panties in a wad because theysay things like DEI, hire.
Don't say that that's a weirdthing to say.
But then they'll say thingslike I mean, I literally have
been consuming so much socialmedia over the past few days and
(29:12):
I will literally see peopledefining DEI and I'm not
exaggerating when I say this,this is like a direct quote.
People will be like, oh, dei isliterally hiring someone who is
qualified over someone who isqualified because of the color
of their skin.
And I'm like where are youfucking learning this?
And at the same time I'm likethey're learning from social
(29:34):
media.
But that's the thing, and it'slike what side of social media
are you learning this from?
Because it's not in thecrevices that I go to like not
what I'm learning.
Your algo is not.
Yeah, it's not where myalgorithm's going.
But at the same time, it's likepeople don't understand that
DEI really, and we could talkabout the DEI thing next.
(29:55):
Yeah, these illegal DEIpractices which, again, are very
broadly termed.
What does that even effing mean?
But people think DEI meanscolor of skin, when DEI is like
a broad umbrella of a lot ofthings.
It could be your race, it couldbe your gender, it could be
(30:18):
your sexuality, it could be thefact that you're over 40.
It could be the fact thatyou're a veteran, it can be.
I mean like literally everyonechecks one of those boxes and
it's just one of those thingswhere it's like you don't know
it, but you've probablybenefited from either DEI,
education, dei stuff and people.
(30:41):
Again, ignorance is a choice,but like they just don't choose
to Google anything other thanwhat they're being fed, so it's
incorrect information.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
But at the same time.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I'm just sitting here like empathy, managing to
different personality, likemanaging to different these are
all things that are under thatDEI umbrella.
So what now?
Is situational leadership goingto be a legal DEI because it's
telling you that you need tomanage, you need to change your
management style to where theperson is?
(31:15):
Is that now going to be illegalDEI?
It's such a broad term and it'sso foolish.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
It is, and there's two sides of this one too.
So you have I've said anynumber of times before you had
all these shyster companies andsome government agencies got
caught up in this, these reallybad DEI programs that you know,
if you're a white male, you sitin the back of the room and
you're not allowed to askquestions or anything.
There's been things like that.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
That's not inclusive.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Yeah, and and hell.
Look at that guy from thePhillies game, or not?
The Phillies, the Eagles game.
He's a DEI.
You know, all these companiesbought into these shysty DEI
programs.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
I'm sorry.
Go back to what you were saying.
Did you say he was a DEIprofessional?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah, the guy from the Eagles game that we talked
about two weeks ago or so.
He was a DEI.
He worked for a DEI consultingfirm.
Worked past tense.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
This might be the old-fashioned talking, but thank
God for the internet, thank Godfor the internet.
I love my favorite pastime thepast few weeks is watching
people just get burned for thestupid shit they say on the
internet.
Because the internet, ladiesand gentlemen, is forever.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Oh yeah, things have evolved.
I know for a fact the things Iwas saying in the 80s and 90s
would not fly at all today.
You know 80s, 90s, everythingwas gay people and we're not.
You know, it didn't matter Ifyou didn't like something, it
was gay.
I don't want to do that.
Oh, that's gay.
I'm not going to do that.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Or on the other side of it, straight, like oh, that's
straight, like that was theopposite, and it was like, yeah,
I totally get it.
Like, oh, that's so gay, oh,that's straight.
Like it doesn't age well, andit was slang that was used it.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
We used the r word, the, the dreaded r word.
All everybody was, I'll say itretarded.
That's retarded.
If it wasn't gay, it wasretarded.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
But you know, anyways , we're going way off topic, but
I will say there's a point tothat though, because like, yes,
we hear these things, we learnfrom these things and we don't
do those things once we learnthem right, yeah, exactly, and
it's not like a personal affrontfor me.
For some people it might be,but if someone just like
corrects you saying like, hey,that's offensive or hey, you
(33:35):
should consider a different word.
And then you adjust.
And we were talking about howwe're doing those extra, those
episodes of, like the officerewatches.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Oh yes.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
And next week we're going to be doing or not next
week, but the following week.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
We're recording next week.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Yeah, we're recording the following week.
We're recording next week.
Yeah, we're recording thefollowing week.
We're going to be.
Oh yeah, I forget.
We'll talk about our scheduleafterward.
Yeah, that's production, butwe're talking about the second
episode, which is Diversity Day,and I'm laughing because you
know that was aired what?
20 years ago or something.
Yeah, and I mean even the stuffin there.
I don't think I told you thiswhen we chatted last time, but
(34:14):
if you watch it on, if you watchthe Office on Comedy Central,
they go from the first episode,they skip Diversity Day and go
to the third episode.
Yes, I noticed that like aweekend or so ago and I was like
, did they just skip DiversityDay Because there's?
some stuff in there that's likenot great but at the same time
(34:35):
like it's kind of like thearchie bunker of it like they're
kind of facing things straighton and there's, in the way they
were, some value to that.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah, in fact, okay, the, the thing that comedy
central changed and we're goingdown another rabbit hole.
You know when he's in troublewith Phyllis and the only thing
I'm worried about is getting aboner and but they, that scene,
that scene is cut out on anyways, we'll get to.
(35:16):
We'll get to those episodeslater.
But the de trying to wranglethe cats in here on the add
brains we have.
But so the, the executive order, which is unfathomable because
you read it, and we're going toget rid of these illegal DEI
programs.
Okay, and I can understand.
(35:38):
Yeah, it's probably going toget rid of the shitey illegal
ones that are just flash in apan and some government agencies
got caught up in buying theseas well.
So that, amen, amen, I'm allfor.
But the dei is so misunderstoodand I shared an article with
(35:58):
you from last year.
You know I'm a I'm a little bitof a fan boy of mark cuban.
I I love what he's trying to doin the, the drug industry and
the medical industry as well.
I'm not a basketball fan, aprofessional definitely, and I
haven't watched college games inI don't know how long, but I
really like what he's doingthere.
But he put on Twitter or X orwhatever you want to call it.
(36:21):
Now he was like yeah, di onlycomes into play and I'm
paraphrasing him when I have twoequal candidates, then I'm
probably going to give the nodto the minority or the protected
class person, whatever it isthat he said.
And it's so funny because thechairman of the EEOC replied to
them and said well, actually,mark, that's illegal.
(36:43):
You're giving preference basedon race, which is illegal.
So, and and okay, I'm a fanI've admitted I'm a fan boy, so
maybe I'm giving him a pass onthis, but I think so many people
think that's what DEI is.
Let's do this, because, no,you're not doing it.
You're making the playing fieldlevel so everybody can have
(37:04):
that equal shot.
And if that equal shot meansit's going to an old white guy
like me, then that's how thecookie crumbles.
But the playing field was openfor anybody and everybody and it
wasn't a rigged game, andthat's what you're trying to do
with your DEI.
And maybe you are trying tofocus on hey, we do need to get
(37:25):
more fill-in-the-blank,underrepresented group in there.
So you do that at yourrecruiting thing.
We're going to advertise inthese forums and these websites
and things like that that tendto track more fill-in-the-blank
demographic that you're lookingfor and we're going to do more
outreach for this type of groupthat were underrepresented.
(37:46):
There's nothing wrong with that.
You're reaching out.
You'll get more applicants.
They're going to have to go tothe same rigmarole that
everybody else goes through and,as long as the laying field is
fair, yeah, you got moreapplicants of this protected
class than you, probably notmore than the non-protected
classes, but you had more thanyou would have if you didn't do
those outreach programs andthings like that.
(38:07):
So that's really what DEI isreally misunderstood with.
Getting rid of it I'm not a fanof because, once again,
sometimes you don't know or youdon't.
You know in the back of yourhead but you don't realize until
it's put in your face that, hey, this is wrong.
But I'm like, okay, but that'sthe person you're trying to
(38:29):
protect from and if you're adecent organization, you have
people in there.
That's going to put the brain.
A manager's going to saysomething stupid.
Like that manager's going tosay, oh, I don't want a woman
between 20 and 40 because Idon't want a loser to having a
baby, I don't want this.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Or man managers are going to say that and especially
they're going to put it inemails too.
And then I'm going to be likewhy.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
I've heard this from a few people.
I didn't experience it in mythird-party recruiting thing,
but I've heard hiring managerswill say the most ridiculous
stuff to a third-party recruiterbecause they think it
exonerates them.
Oh, we're using this agencyheadhunter or whatever this
recruiter to hire us so I cantell them yeah, I don't want a
woman between 20 and 40.
I want to make sure someone'sgoing to be here for a while.
(39:16):
Plus, have you looked at thelongevity rates of people?
The average person's onlystaying in a job like less than
three years.
now, I think, is the time, somake the best out of that three
years, and if you're doing wellyeah, if you're doing well as an
employer, maybe they're goingto stay for four or five, maybe
they'll do more.
But anything over over threeyears is I'm coming up on six at
(39:41):
my, my current job.
But anything over three yearsis like oh right, you're winning
.
You're winning the game rightnow.
Take, take the win and I live.
You know, outside of Virginiabeach, the world's largest
military complex, we havemilitary spouses coming going
all the time and around hereyou're not going to.
You say, oh, we're not going tohire a military, you're going
to be gone in three years.
Why would we hire you?
(40:02):
You would be blacklisted everywhich way to Sunday.
But you know, just take it.
Hey, I'm going to get the bestI can out of this person for the
next three years.
Give them a good workingenvironment and that's all you
have to do well, I'm sorry, Ithink.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
I think millennials are the ones that discovered the
secret that if you leave acompany and go to another one,
your pay increase.
Like your, your pay is gonnajump.
So I think that's a thing oflike, um, if you stay at a
company for a long time.
Your potential for income is soincremental.
But if you leave you can getthat sweet sweet negotiation and
(40:41):
you can actually, over the endof time, make more money.
So that's not a dei problem oranything.
That's just companies needingto promote or pay merit better
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
So yeah, keep up with the industry.
But anyways, where I was going,people don't understand DEI,
what it is, what it means.
They don't understandaffirmative action, what it is
and what it means.
Dei is basically opening thedoor and letting people know
what some acceptable behaviorsare.
Is I mean, honestly, in thisday and age, people maybe my age
(41:18):
and older, when you're havingto deal with bathrooms and
transgender issues that I Iwouldn't have even known what a
trans was 20 years ago, that youhear my, my kids are they.
They have trans friends andthey're right.
It's nothing to them, but to meit would be like, oh, you know,
(41:39):
at their age I'd be like whatthe hell is this?
Speaker 1 (41:41):
and I that's just the world.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
I was in.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
I was in the Kansas City Airport and I am just going
to give a shout out to thembecause they have the best
gender neutral bathroom.
Well, first, it's the only oneI've ever experienced, but it
was so great it was like.
So I don't know if you knowthis, but women's bathrooms get
a little backed up and I don'twant to wait on a line if I have
(42:07):
to go to the bathroom.
Okay, so, kansas City had thesegender neutral bathrooms and,
honestly, it was like a commonarea sink, which is fine.
I don't mind washing my handsnext to a man.
Let's wash hands together,let's practice hygiene.
But like the door, they weren'tlike traditional stalls, they
were like doors.
That was like ceiling to floor.
(42:27):
It was exceptional.
I was in and out so fast and Inever felt threatened and I peed
, I washed my hands, I got on myflight.
My life is no different than itwas before.
Just, you know, it's really not.
(42:48):
It's nothing groundbreaking,and I am just thankful to the
Kansas City Airport for allowingme to be able to pee and move
on.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Well, okay, you might be a little young for this.
I don't know if the show AllyMcBeal there was such a hubbub
that they had.
What was that in the early?
Was that early nineties, midninetiess?
Speaker 1 (43:11):
it was like it was mid to late 90s, but you're
right, they had they had an openrestroom thing and people were
in uproar.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
I mean I don't, there wasn't facebook back then.
I don't know how I know so muchof people were up.
I just remember people being inuproar and I didn't like.
I didn't watch ali mcbeal, Ididn't really care for it.
I I like Jane Krakowski.
She's funny as hell in so manyother things, but I didn't watch
the show.
But I know people were fired upabout the bathroom situation in
their office and I'm like okay.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
I'm not thinking about anything, man, I just want
to go to the bathroom.
Let me just go do that.
I don't care who's doing itnext to me, they might care.
I don't.
Like I have experienced asituation Like so.
People always say DEI is justto like, pander, to like certain
(44:04):
groups, and it's like.
I have seen it work in theopposite way.
Where there was, I might havetold the story before.
I'm sorry I might be becomingmy mother sharing the same
stories.
If you're new here,congratulations, it's new.
I same company as before withthe, the president, or the the
owner.
So the head engine, one of thehead engineers, he was an older
(44:26):
gentleman, like he at the timewas in his 70s.
He loved what he did and he wasgood at what he did and he he
was just there and he was doinga great job and he had a team.
He was hiring a new engineerand I remember him looking at
the candidates and there wasmathematical assessments they
had to take as part of theinterview process and the female
(44:48):
scored lower on thoseassessments based on, like, just
the scores.
Like we had a few femalecandidates, one of which scored
lower and basically, like thisis the standard, like I know
this is a piece of the puzzle,but you know, let's keep that in
mind.
And I do remember him walkinginto my office and him saying
(45:10):
well, we can like lower thescore a little bit because you
know, women aren't that strongat math compared to men.
To which I said these are thestandards we set, these are the
standards that we follow foreveryone.
If she does not meet thestandard, she does not meet the
standard.
So, like I get it, like I do,because that like and see.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Maybe he thinks he's being a good person, not by
saying that, right, and youmentioned he's a seven.
Maybe that's a generationalthing.
It's a generational thing.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
He's being polite.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
He's trying to be accommodating.
Maybe he has a hotspot as thiswoman.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Daisy, he did Honestly, she was a cutie and he
was like older and I'm like itcould have been, like I'm not
saying no, but who knows itcould have.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
It could have been.
Maybe it wasn't as as wholesomeas I was trying to make it out
to be as well, but that's that'sanother thing.
And I, you know, I want to knowand you were discussing this
off-air a bit which got mysquirrelly brain going
Harassment, because our trainingis Harassment plus DEI and we
(46:22):
have a company that does it forus and it's a good program, but
is this going to impactharassment?
You know, is it going to be?
Oh, you need to expect to.
You know, be oogled at or ogledat, whatever the word is.
Or, you know, get your assslapped every once in a while in
the office place and thingslike that.
(46:43):
And you know where is this linegoing to be?
Because, you know, is it goingto be one of those?
What do they call it?
The broken window.
First, you have this goes oh,nobody cares, you just broke one
window.
Next, you break another windowoh, nobody cares.
Next, the building doesn't haveany windows because you've
broken all the windows, maya.
So what's next?
Speaker 1 (47:04):
So my mom used to work in an office environment in
the 80s in the 80s and I doremember she was helping with
like, with interviews orsomething for I don't know what
position, but in any case, herboss basically said something
along the lines of I really likethis one candidate, who
(47:26):
happened to be a very attractivefemale, and she was like what
was it about it that you liked?
And he said I liked the way shewalked away from me.
And I'm just saying that theseare the things that we could be
(47:49):
letting slip through the cracksagain, if we're doing away with
DEI, if we're doing away withthe EEOC, if we're doing away
with all this stuff, because,again, this is the reality of
the world we live in and thoseguardrails were put in place for
a reason yeah.
(48:10):
I liked the way she walked awayfrom me, or I think he said he
liked the view as she walkedaway from him.
I think that's what he said.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Getting better.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
And I will say that the reason my mom or not the
reason, but my mom was drivingon her way to the interview.
An asshole kind of cut her offas she was, like kind of turning
toward the office for theinterview and what he did, she
slammed her horn and gave theguy the finger and when she
(48:41):
walked in and ended up being thehiring manager, oh, to which
they had an interview, and thenhe goes, you know what I like
your attitude, like you don'ttake shit from people, I can
tell.
And she ended up getting thejob.
But, my mom just like flickedthis guy off because he was an
asshole on the road.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Hey, that's awesome.
I like that story.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Yeah, yeah, so anyway , like that's just the stuff
that's on my mind.
It just drives me crazy and Ithink when people say that stuff
never happens, they're either Ihate like they're part of a
privileged group of people whonever had to like really worry
(49:26):
about that and to say that itdoesn't matter and to say that
it won't affect you is aprivilege, because there are
people that this will affect,and I also think about all the
DEI professionals who are in HRright now who are now working in
a quote unquote illegal field,and how many people are going to
(49:47):
lose their jobs over this aswell.
Like there's a lot of things.
And also look at Target.
I mean there's just lists everyday of companies that are
dropping DEI, oh did.
Target.
Target just dropped DEI and Idon't know if you heard this,
but like Target dropped DEI.
So now Minnesota Pride, whereTarget is headquartered, dropped
(50:13):
Target from the Pridesponsorship.
They're like we don't need yourmoney, target.
And when they did that, becauseI think Target gave like
$50,000 toward the Pride event,they're like you can suck it.
And then they ended up raising$75,000 because of that act.
And there are companies that doDEI performatively.
I now believe Target is one ofthem, because I do believe
(50:35):
Target started their DEIinitiative right after George
Floyd and they were doing it ina way, and a lot of companies
did, a lot of companies did.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
That's when DEI really exploded.
Yes, before Floyd, it reallywas a thing.
That's when it exploded becausein that brief period of time
you had Brianna, you had GeorgeFloyd I can't remember Brianna's
last name you had a lot of notso good social injustice issues
(51:03):
going on at that immediate time.
But yeah, but DEI itself is anillegal.
It's illegal DEI and which isnot being defined so what does
that mean?
Yeah, it doesn't like again.
The million dollar question isis that now?
Speaker 1 (51:17):
going to be talking about, like I mean, I'm thinking
about things like, uh, workingwith neurodivergent people.
Like that's dei, we can't talkabout that anymore.
Is it showing empathy at work?
Empathy is a code word for DEI,so we can't do that anymore,
like it's just.
And now I'm hearing likewhispers that there's going to
(51:38):
be like a task force in thegovernment that's like, oh,
we're going to be paying outpeople who basically rat their
companies out to be like, hey,my company's doing a training
and now I get like a $30,000 orsome whatever, some fee for
basically like a rat line.
And I don't know but I don'tknow how many of you went to
(52:01):
school but snitches get stitches.
Stop your shit.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Yeah, but yeah it's, it's crazy and, like I said, my
stance as of right now,personally and professional
let's not get overly excitedabout it right now,
professionally, we had 90 daysfrom whatever the inaction of
the order to be compliant withthese orders.
(52:28):
So let's see exactly how itshakes out and maybe they'll
give us more direction on someof these very broad, vague
things.
Because the holes in theseexecutive orders you can drive a
bus through.
And if you and I read the samething and both being I think
we're both kind of smart peoplebut we can get different
(52:55):
readings of not knowing what todo out of the same thing.
If we can't, if we don't knowwhat to do, and the attorneys of
my law firm they're sayingwe're still trying to parse this
all together and you know, just, you know, be ready, make plans
(53:17):
, start getting ready, but don'ttake any action quite yet
unless you know you're doingsomething overtly wrong.
But another thing that went awayall these VIRVA audits.
Okay, I don't know if I evermentioned on the podcast like
three years ago my company gothit with a V audit, the Vietnam
era veterans readjustment Act.
Oh gosh, our company is 40 pluspercent prior service.
(53:40):
Our COO is a retired Admiral.
We have so much military.
We work on Navy ships.
Because we're a civiliancontractor working on these Navy
ships, we hire a lot of peoplefrom the Navy who worked on
these ships and we've won I'lltoot my own horn here we've won
some best for vets and amilitary friendly.
We've won those type of awardsand accolades and things like
(54:02):
that.
And yet we still got a VIRVAaudit.
That ended up we passed withflying colors, no problems at
all.
But in attorney's fees it wasover $50,000 in attorney's fees
to represent us in our VERBAaudit, vevra, whatever you want
to say audit.
And not only was it $50,000 ofattorney's fees, it was just the
(54:25):
complete obnoxiousness.
You know.
Here's our 4142.
Check us out we're doing.
You know there's no way you cansay we're discriminating
against veterans in this, thisthing.
And they, they wanted to, youknow.
And they, they overstepped, inmy opinion, if they're a verva,
they overstepped theirboundaries.
(54:45):
I thought they wanted to go inour bathrooms, make sure they
are handicapped accessible, andthey are, you know.
You know we have handicapparking, so they want to make
sure we have this.
And we, you know, we do.
You know it.
It should have been okay, fiveminutes.
Here's our last 10 years of4142s.
Walk around, look at ourbathrooms all day long, look,
(55:06):
and we're compliant.
But no, it was months and monthsand they would just ask that.
I can't remember any of thesedumb ass questions.
They'd ask and why this and whythat?
And uh, I'm like I, I don'tknow why.
Oh, I remember one time aveteran who was disabled at one
(55:26):
of the accommodations theywanted.
They needed a special chair andyou know what.
They came to me in hr and saidoh, I need a different chair to
you know, support, my, I saidsend me a link.
That's all I said send me alink.
She had it like within a weekand it wasn't.
Well, let's talk about areasonable accommodation.
Okay, a 500 chair?
Oh yeah, I'm going to pay that.
(55:47):
I'm going to pay that, I'mgoing to buy that tomorrow and
not, I don't know.
I will be very happy that theseVerva audits, these EEO audits.
Well, eeo, if you're notplaying the game right, yeah,
you need to be audited and youneed to be punished.
But I think 99% of people aredoing the right thing, at least
I hope.
Maybe I'm being naive, but that1% that's not needs to be
(56:12):
hammered and hammered hard, butthe rest of us leave us.
Oh, here's the other thing, andI've been on my soapbox.
I don't know if I've done it onthe podcast, even though we're
well over an hour recording.
Now we're going to be doingsome editing here, but I hate
the EO1 report.
I hate the 4142.
(56:38):
We're a good employer, we dowhat we think, we pay social
security taxes.
So therefore you have all ouremployees and their social
security numbers.
So you know better than I dowhat their race is, what their
disability they may have, theirveteran status.
You know all that fun stuffmore than I do.
I will never forget.
For EEO purposes, if someonedoes not fill out the form, the
self-identification form, youget to either A make an
(57:01):
assumption of what they are or,b they become a white male.
Everybody becomes a white maleif otherwise.
So those are the rules of theEEO and I'll never forget.
We had a new HRS system at thiscompany and when people did, I
forget what they had to do.
But we asked them to checktheir demographic information
out to make sure it was accurate, and somebody got very upset
(57:25):
that they were listed in thereas a white female when they are
Native American.
I didn't make that assumptionthat predated me, but somebody
made that assumption and Iwouldn't have ever known.
But they got upset about it andI'm like, okay, well, and I
went back and you know, this wasin the day, pen and paper was
like I said it was a new HRSsystem.
They put the refuse to identifyand I'm like, okay, if that's
(57:49):
fine, you want to do that.
But they got upset thatsomebody made the assumptions on
their behalf.
But oh well, that just issomething that always stood out
to me, how upset they got aboutthat.
I'm like it's easy to fix.
We can Do a little drop downand choose Native American from
the drop down box.
Real, quick and easy.
Speaker 1 (58:09):
It's an annual self-identification campaign
Like hey, like just a push to belike you know, go in your HRIS
and update things like you knowyour demographics, yeah, like
that's all self-identifiable.
So you got to.
This is just a friendlyreminder that you should do it
(58:29):
if you're asked.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (58:31):
And you know I don't get offended.
Speaker 1 (58:32):
I don't get offended.
Speaker 2 (58:33):
I have a crew who can say you're Native American.
Well, we're going to fire youtomorrow because we don't allow
them here.
But I think that also.
Speaker 1 (58:41):
So I think that kind of also speaks to the just like
this inner fear that peopleprobably have, that people are
probably like wired with from ayoung age that I mean it's a
perspective that I don'tunderstand because I'm a white
female, but I can imagine, likesomebody who has those fears in
(59:02):
them, they might not want toself-identify because they've
probably experienced things intheir life that kind of makes
and this is why DEI and this iswhy all that stuff is important
you feel like they belong andfeel like they are not
discriminated against and peopleaccept them for who they am.
(59:32):
Something very magical happensand it's called retention.
So there is a very goodbusiness case for DEI, not just
like the oh it's a basic humanneed to be empathetic.
Like you should probably havesome empathy and if you don't,
(59:53):
maybe you should see someone,end of the day, like it's a very
good business case, like wedon't want to be continuously
recruiting for roles becausepeople are leaving, because they
work in an environment thatmakes them uncomfortable, that
makes them this, that makes themthat, like there's solid
business cases for this.
And the one thing I've learnedin HR is you got to talk to
(01:00:17):
people in terms of money, notthe touchy, feely pieces,
because that's where you mightlose some senior leaders.
So when you make a businesscase on how to push something or
you have an initiative that youwant to propose, tie it back to
ROI and money.
But yeah, Absolutely.
(01:00:37):
DEI is not touchy-feely.
It's actually good for thebusiness it is.
Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Absolutely.
That's the title of our podcasttoday.
Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Suck on that.
Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
That'll be the second part of the title.
One thing you were saying aboutself-identifying you know I
talk to my son is applying toall these internships and he is
on the autism spectrum.
But when it comes to that sideof it he just puts I decline to
identify because he doesn't wantto lie.
But he doesn't want, he doesn'tthink of himself in that way.
You know, he's brilliantlysmart.
(01:01:10):
He used to be teased by membersof our own family calling him
Dr Sheldon Cooper because he isbrilliantly smart.
But sometimes the social cuesare out of his reach.
But as he's gotten older he'sdone a lot better with it.
But he asked me he's done a lotbetter, uh, with it.
(01:01:31):
But he asked me what do I put?
I said I said I said go aheadand mark it, you know uh.
I said nobody said until it'stime to run these reports,
nobody looks at it.
Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Those reports aren't like that.
Demographic information isn'tavailable to the hiring manager.
No, exactly back end stuff.
The hiring manager isn'tlooking to see if you have any
disabilities, like they don'tknow that and honestly they're
probably not going to know thatunless you tell them, especially
if it's something invisiblelike that you know, in our
(01:02:04):
system, our recruiter, the onlypeople who have access to the
self-identification informationare me and my HR assistant.
Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Our recruiter doesn't have access to it.
And you know when do we use it?
When we're doing ouraffirmative action and EO plans.
That's when we use thatinformation.
And so nobody along the hiringprocess sees that info.
Nobody cares.
Nobody's asking you.
By the way, what is the dealwith Warren?
What's his?
You know.
Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Yeah, For me.
I want to see if he has anylatent disabilities that we
don't know about.
Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
That's not how that works Undiagnosed.
Add out the yin-yang.
Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
Neurodivergency is fun yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Yeah, so, anyways, we've been ranting.
I'm going to try and edit thisto be under an hour even though
it's been well over an hour, butwe'll, we'll see.
I hope you enjoyed this verylong episode, but it's all been
a lot of fun.
And you know, we know we wentdown a lot of rabbit holes,
which maybe I'll edit some out.
But yeah, you know, this isimportant and we'll probably
(01:03:14):
talk a little bit more aboutthis as more becomes available.
You know the the jaded part ofthis is you're throwing all this
shit at us without anydirection and nobody's knowing.
I mean, you know, if this iswhat you want to do, fine, I'll
get over it, I'll live and theworld will live and every babe
will.
Ultimately, the country will bejust fine, and however many
more years, but everything'sgoing to be.
We've survived worse in thiscountry and in the world, so
(01:03:37):
let's not, let's not overreact,but let's just take it with a
grain of salt and see what comes.
But I'm sure this is going togive us a lot more fodder to to
discuss in the in futureepisodes as things go and then
when the lawsuits come out aboutit.
That's going to be a lot of funtoo and they're starting.
Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
So I'm very interested and and not to make a
long episode even longer, but Iwill be watching the, because I
think the fbi agents are nowfiling a lawsuit against.
They're filing a lawsuit for infor unjust firing, because as
retaliation.
So, oh, because they were likeyou know the january 6th stuff
(01:04:16):
and they were all let go.
So now it's like now they'refiling a lawsuit, which I think
is justifiable.
They should fire a lawsuitbecause that is retaliation.
They were just doing their jobyeah, I.
Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
I saw something.
I didn't do any.
I saw something on it.
I saw a headline.
I didn't dive into it or lookat it.
Get that money.
Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
I don't stand for retaliation, so get that money,
grab that bag.
Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Yeah, so we'll just have so much for the next
episode.
We could keep going on this,but anyhow, thank you for
listening and for if you've madeit through this whole episode.
We love you.
You've been, it's been, I don'tknow.
We've done a couple episodesover an hour in the past, but
it's been a long time.
I I my target is 30 minutes,but I don't think the last, I
don't know the last time we'vedone a 30 minute episode either.
(01:05:06):
It's been around 40.
It's an hour now it's an hournow, oh, hour 15 right now, and,
like I said, it'll be well,I'll let it.
I'll see what I can do in themagic magic of editing tomorrow
night.
So anyways, as always, I'mwarren, I'm cc and we're here
helping you survive hr1.
What the fuck?
Moment at a time?
(01:05:26):
What the fuck?
Yeah, exactly what the fuck.
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