March 19, 2025 • 56 mins
The gap between what HR professionals think and what they can actually say out loud has never been more entertaining than in this episode of Jaded HR. Warren and Cee Cee start by unpacking recent viral news stories that perfectly illustrate how poor judgment can derail careers - from the American tourist who stole a baby wombat for social media clout to a track athlete facing consequences for an on-field assault. These stories serve as perfect metaphors for workplace behavior that lands people on "do not hire" lists.
Speaking of which, the hosts deliver a fascinating breakdown of Meta's controversial "block list" that prevents even laid-off employees from being rehired - even when managers specifically want them back. This secret system has apparently frustrated Meta's own leadership who can't figure out why valuable former team members are blocked or how to get them off the list. Warren and Cee Cee share their own experiences with "do not hire" designations and why flexibility in these systems matters.
The episode delivers exceptional value through its examination of resume best practices, drawing from former Amazon executive Ethan Evans' insights after reviewing over 10,000 resumes. Rather than offering generic advice, the hosts provide specific, actionable guidance: focus on results not just responsibilities, strategically position your education based on career stage, consider adding a splash of color to stand out, and yes - include those interesting hobbies that might create a human connection with recruiters. The personal anecdote about a marketing candidate who branded her resume so memorably that the hosts still remember her name years later perfectly illustrates how the right personal touches can make a lasting impression.
Have you ever experienced a manager who crossed the line? Cee Cee 's candid story about walking out on a Starbucks manager who tried to manipulate her into working despite an approved day off will resonate with anyone who's dealt with workplace power dynamics. Next time you encounter workplace drama, remember the Jaded HR mantra: we're here to help you survive HR one "what the fuck" moment at a time!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Had you actually read the email, you would know that
the podcast you are about tolisten to could contain explicit
language and offensive content.
These HR experts' views are notrepresentative of their past,
present or future employers.
If you have ever heard mymanager is unfair to me.
I need you to reset my HRportal password, or Can I write
(00:24):
up my employee for crying toomuch?
Welcome to our little safe zone.
Welcome to Jaded HR.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Welcome to JDHR, the podcast by two HR professionals.
We want to help you get throughthe workday by saying
everything you're thinking, butsay it out loud.
I'm Warren.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
I'm Cece.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Right, wow, so obviously the office episode
still isn't post.
I am going to spend some timeworking on it very shortly, but
this episode is going to comeout before the Office episode
does.
But that'll be next, and ournext recording in two weeks is
going to be a special one, sostay tuned for that everybody.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, let's see here.
So it's been an interesting.
You know I'm not going to gointo all the details that we've
been talking offline and aboutthe interesting two weeks I've
had and you've had aninteresting two weeks as well,
but, wow, shit's getting realsometimes.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Seriously.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
But anyways.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
It's crazy out there.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Literally yeah.
And speaking of crazy, thatjust blows us straight into one
of the topics I was going to seesome, some crazy people on.
Well, I'll start with the babywombat thief.
I I I haven't followed thestory other than what's on the
news, but you see the video.
(02:01):
She's videoed herself ofstealing the baby wombat from
its mother and my thing is okay.
What the hell is she going todo with it?
You're not going to be able toput it on a plane and take it
back to the United States withyou or anything.
Customs is not going to lookfavorably upon that.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
It's so dumb.
She was just doing it for clout.
It's clear that she just wantedsocial media followers.
Yeah, like, it's clear that shejust wanted social media
followers.
And, oh like, leave it alone.
And the way the mother was like, oh no, she deserves to be like
she deserves diarrhea.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Oh, I think it should be worse.
You know, australia shoulddeport her to someplace horrible
and not let her go back to theUnited States, at least
immediately.
And I just, and once again, Ihaven't seen anything more than
what was on the news, but itseems like at first she was
snapping back at people who werecoming at her for it, and today
on the news actually, I saw Ispent too much time waiting in
the lobby where we have all thenews monitors and I see these
(03:02):
things and she's apologizingprofusely and what has happened
is she's getting canceledrightfully so, and yeah, and now
, oh my gosh, right, and I don'tknow how many followers she had
, or sponsorship deals oranything like that she might
have had, but still, you don'tmess with Australia, animals too
(03:23):
.
Half of them are poisonous.
They're not going to kill you,yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Half of them can kill you and the others are
protected and they take thatstuff so seriously.
Oh yeah, so I mean, just don'tmess, Don't touch the animals.
It's not a petting zoo.
The world is not your pettingzoo.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Okay, speaking of which, I have a little patch.
Don't pet the fluffy cows.
I used to love YellowstoneNational Park.
I probably won't go there everagain in my life.
It's insanity on steroids, butI love.
One of my favorite Instagramsites is Torons of Yellowstone,
(04:02):
and you see all these peoplegetting way too close to Buffalo
.
There's one not too long agowhere Buffalo is charging a dude
but whoever's videotaping itsort of runs away before you get
to see the person get tossedaround.
And I'm like you know, I'mrooting every time I see those
things.
I'm rooting for the Buffalo,I'm rooting for the bear, the
(04:28):
buffalo.
I'm rooting for the bear.
I'm rooting for you know.
Okay, yeah, if you play stupidgames, win stupid prizes, and I
just love seeing that.
The same thing applies to this.
This lady who wanted to do tobe become insta famous or
whatever with the wombat.
So oh, and I will say wombatsare really.
If animals in australia are,either really cool and really
cute or they are fugly.
(04:48):
They don't have average animalsin Australia.
Like I said, they kill you orthey don't, or they're ugly or
they're not, but wombats are.
They're pretty darn cuteanimals.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
They're so cute, leave the babies alone.
But just think about it.
That would never happen to ahuman.
No one's going to come up to mein public with my baby and grab
it from me and be like look,how cute it is.
You would be arrested for that.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah, you would Kidnapping.
Yeah, that's literallykidnapping.
So yeah, that's something crazy.
But also in the news thishappened not terribly far from
me in Virginia, but the trackgirl who was having assault
charges pressed against her forsmacking her now the runner in
(05:41):
the head with the baton Now Idon't know anything about track
and field, I'm assuming they'renot heavy like a lead pipe or
anything, but you're stillsmacking and the girl had a
concussion and once again foundout this sitting in the lobby of
my building waiting for aconference room and the girl's
on TV crying and I was trippingand I was falling and my and I
(06:05):
you know I'm like you were nottripping, you assailed that
other girl and I just own up toit.
You know she's obviously 18 ifthey're putting her name and
everything out there.
So own up to it, be an adultand grow up.
And her parents were sittingbeside her and I was like, come
(06:28):
on, dad, mom, I'm just like,okay, there's no way that was
tripping and falling in.
And now that her name's outthere, just like the wombat baby
thief, you know who's going towant to hire this person.
You know a crime is someone whophysically lashes out at people
.
It's, it's crazy.
And add another little twistinto it.
(06:49):
I've mentioned before, I spent15 years as a baseball umpire
and I.
I worked high school, I workedcollege, I worked, you know, I,
I went up the ranks and I one ofthe reasons I got out of it is
just the shenanigans and theridiculousness is getting to the
extreme Now and the shenanigansseem to be more the lower down
(07:12):
the food chain you go, the moreshenanigans you get, the mommy
and daddy drama.
And I pay, we pay over $15,000a year to play baseball and da
da da.
Okay, good for you.
That doesn't mean you, therules change and stuff like that
.
But the shenanigans, when youget to competitive high schools,
you know the shenanigans dieoff very quickly and in college,
(07:33):
once again, there's less of it.
It goes down and most of theshenanigans are harmless.
You're not going to have, youknow, people doing things like
that.
Or I never accounted for it atthe college level or even upper
level, high school level, butyou know the sports and parents.
It just made it.
It took something I loved todeath and it made it something.
(07:55):
Yeah, I thought I'd have aharder, a bigger problem leaving
it and you know I haven't doneit in six, seven years and don't
miss it.
Oh, that's pity yeah.
So yeah, I just thought of that,Like what you just said.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
I was watching some content creator just kind of
like snarking on another contentcreator, but the person that he
was talking about is a trainwreck.
Like she is just an alcoholictrain wreck but makes a shit ton
of money on like tiktok andsurprise only fans oh boy and
like the wish no judgment.
(08:32):
You know, you do you?
But at the same time, like hemade this comment so flippantly,
he was like I mean you, youwant to get your daughter back.
Why are you making only fanscontent?
Why don't you get a normal jobat a company?
And I'm like, oh, like, I thinkit's really hard for people to
like, once you're out there,especially with this individual
who has, like I don't know, likehundreds of thousands of
(08:55):
followers and it's kind ofbecoming infamous for some of
the shit she's doing.
It's hard just like flip aswitch one day and be like, oh,
I'm gonna work at a corporatejob because it's just, it's not
that easy, like, if your name isout there, whether it be
something infamous or somethingyou know off the beaten path,
like only fans, like it's hardjust to you know, turn on a
(09:19):
straight path and go tocorporate.
Like unfortunately, yeah likepeople are on the internet.
People know things, it isdifficult Once you become famous
.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
I mean, look at the lady who called the bird watcher
a racist and called the police.
Nobody knew who she was.
Oh yeah, put the internetsleuths on her, bam.
I mean instantly.
Everybody knew who she was andyou may use a pseudonym or
something like that online, butyou know, if you do something
(09:50):
stupid then people are going tofind you and it's you know.
I see this meme probably once aweek on Instagram or Facebook
and the meme is some kidstalking and remember before
OnlyFans, when your mom onlysold Avon.
I think that's funny, but yeah,anywho, so wow.
(10:15):
But we are going to talk aboutHR today.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Yeah, we are.
That was our Around the Worldin five minutes.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, Well, okay, we just talked about this a little,
while you and I both seem tomiss the boat on this, the the
husband and wife work wife cards.
Work husband work wife cardsout there.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
For Valentine's Day.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
On for Valentine's Day and I'm like I I must've
been under a cave or whateverduring the Valentine's Day and
I'm like I must have been undera cave or whatever during the
Valentine's Day thing.
But it pulled up in myalgorithm and I'm seeing it
everywhere.
Hr Manifesto posted it.
I've seen it so many differentways.
I'm like wow.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
For a second.
I thought it was like you justexplained it to me.
I didn't see anything yet and Iwas like my visceral reaction
was just like uh-uh-uh.
And then I had a moment where Iwas like maybe I'm overreacting
, maybe this is just somethingfunny, and then it was worse.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
It was worse.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Because I didn't realize that the cards were
being sold in Hallmark and crap.
And I'm like, are you effingserious?
That's insane.
I hate it.
I hate it.
I'm not a jealous type, but ifmy husband came home and was
like, hey, look what myco-worker gave me, I would tear
(11:44):
his eyeballs out or someone'seyeballs out, Like no, well,
that would be my fear, even if Igot it for a co-worker that I'm
close with or something, havingtheir significant other come
and hunt me down.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I've learned the hard way I'm not a fighter.
I've learned that the very hardway.
I'm not the fighter.
And unless I have 30 fraternitybrothers with me, then I can be
yeah, yeah, but one-on-one,nope, not going to do it.
But that's what I'd be afraidof.
I give you a card like that toyou.
Kevin's going to come and wringmy neck, he's going to drive
(12:20):
cross-country.
And I'm like, no, yeah, exactlyNow, if I were to get one.
My wife was like, good, takehim.
But anyways, I loved it.
I think we just watched thememe together, the little HR
manifesto.
It was like, oh no, don't spend$4.95 to get yourself fired.
And I thought that was the bestline you could say about that
(12:47):
yeah, don't spend $4.99.99.
But on a relate note, we justgot past, we survived.
Did everybody survive stpatrick's day with no pinching
in the workplace?
That is so funny.
I well, I, I personally workfrom home, so yeah, oh yeah, I
have not ever dealt with it, butI've heard a couple of times of
people having to deal withpinching at the workplace.
(13:08):
Oh geez people.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Just don't touch people, just don't touch them.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah, don't touch people.
Oh, let's see here.
So last episode I was talkingabout my little drama employee
calling me from their tax officeor whatever to needing their
stuff.
But I've seen in uh jamie at uhhr besties once again.
She had this great meme aboutbe nice to your payroll and hr
(13:35):
people just because you getfucked is you didn't do your
taxes right.
Uh, and she.
She was much nicer about itthan I was.
You know, that's not ourproblem.
I haven't experienced this insome time, but I have been there
when y'all have fucked up mytaxes and I owe all this money
and all that.
Like, oh, did I fill out yourW-4 for you?
(13:55):
Do I know what your?
Maybe you've got OnlyFans thatyou're earning money from they
send you your 1099, and nowyou've got to pay a lot of taxes
.
That's self-employment.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
You got to claim that OF that OF income.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
But I don't know what their situation is.
And on top of that, this isI've seen this, not recently,
but I've seen it before HRpeople online talking about
we're not tax professionals,y'all.
And by telling people how tofill out their forms, I will
give high level advice.
(14:31):
The more exemptions you claim,the less they take out, and I
will.
If someone puts exempt on there, I will say are you sure you
want to do this?
We might want to look into it.
But if they say sure, I'll letthe exempt say exempt and I'll
be waiting for that lock-inletter from the IRS.
But in however many months ittakes them to get around to it.
(14:51):
But we're not tax experts.
And on top of that I wastalking to someone else about
this Companies have errors andomission assurance and things
like that, but that only appliesif you're working within the
scope of your work.
So if I'm doing my job and Idon't know I do something wrong,
bad, illegal and it gets ussued, the company has errors and
(15:12):
emissions insurance on me, butit will not apply if I'm doing
something I'm not supposed to bedoing, like giving tax advice
and things like that, because itwill say, no, you're not
working the scope of your joband you will be responsible for
it.
So HR, payroll people, even ifin your prior life you are a CPA
, you're not acting as it atwork.
(15:34):
Don't give that tax advice.
I've seen that too many timesand I just stay away.
Stop Danger, will RobinsonDanger.
So anyway, you know this is astrange episode because we both
did our homework ahead of time,so we've got a Google Doc of all
(15:54):
of our stuff here.
Well, I'll jump ahead to yourthing.
What you pulled up, I reallylike this when you sent it to me
.
So let's talk about resumes.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
So resumes.
So every once in a while yousee one of those articles come
up by some expert who has histop five ways of his or her top
five ways of doing everythingright, and it came across me,
like my browser.
It was like, hey, businessInsider posted this.
Oh no, not Business Insider, Iknow.
(16:29):
And I was like what?
And apparently Ethan Evans saysthat he has viewed over what is
it?
10,000 resumes and had morethan 2,500 interviews.
And why do we care about whatEthan Evans has to say?
Because he's done this for somany years at so many companies,
(16:50):
including Big Daddy, amazon.
So he basically put out whatthe top things that we should be
doing on our resumes.
So I'm going to be honest withyou.
I started reading this with alittle bit of a jaded eye I'm
like another listicle, buthonestly I kind of agree with a
lot of what he says.
(17:10):
So the number one thing is likeno results, only activities.
To.
According to the article is thatpeople tend to just list the
things that they are responsiblefor.
So like I wrote code or Imanaged people or whatever it
might be, but people aren'tputting results on there.
(17:33):
And I was like, oh, like, sosmart.
So basically, like if you couldlink your results to or to what
you've done that actuallyimproved the company.
It shows your value.
Another thing is like if youhave that stuff tangibly that
you can share, link it to yourresume which is funny, because I
(17:56):
never even considered that.
I was like, oh yeah, idiot.
Like, link your award, linkyour stuff there so people can
click on it and see, like allthis tangible stuff.
But yeah, like I thought, award, link your stuff there so
people can click on it and see,like all this tangible stuff.
But yeah, like I thought thatthat was brilliant.
That's it's not even likebrilliant, it's more like really
common that people don't do,especially as you get up the up
(18:17):
the ladder in your career and gointo more specialized roles or
more senior roles like thoseresults are so important.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah, and like you, when you sent this, I started
reading it as a jaded thing,especially when I get to the
line.
I've reviewed more than 10,000resumes and conducted more than
2,500 interviews.
If you're getting 2,500interviews out of 10,000 resumes
, damn, one out of four you'regood, but but anyways and then
of course they throw the thecompanies, as everybody has to
(18:46):
put the the company they theydid.
You know, nobody would know thenames of any of the companies
I've worked for, but you know Ispent nearly 10 years recruiting
.
I can't imagine how manyhundreds of of thousands of
resumes I've reviewed, orthousands of resume.
But I don't work for either thecool Fang companies Now that
I'm cool enough to know whatFang is, kind of so.
(19:08):
But you know that that'ssomething in being so early on
that made me, that heightened myjadedness.
But then it goes on in thereand and one of the, the second
line of the articles recruitersskim resumes quickly.
So clarity and conciseness iscrucial for success, absolutely.
I've seen things where you haveless than 10 seconds to make an
(19:30):
impression.
I think you might even haveless.
Yeah, I pull up a resume, I skimit real quick and if it doesn't
make me want to actually gobeyond skimming into reading,
you're gone.
You're in the next pile and Ido this when I'm hiring.
I have an A, a, b and a C pileand A my first time through A is
(19:51):
going to be like the hard.
I probably will have one or twoA's in there, if even the B's
are okay and then the C.
I'll revisit them, the Cs, if Idon't have any luck.
But I just go through, gothrough.
And yeah, you don't have muchtime and yeah, I agree with some
(20:14):
of these mistakes.
Yeah, like I said, he says yourresume has to be optimized to
catch the eye quickly.
The goal is for them to skim it.
Think about, think it would beworthwhile to interview you.
Just catch the eye.
Just catch the eye and not withyour photo.
I don't want that.
Don't put a photo.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yeah.
So one of the other things islike okay, so this one I'm kind
of about.
But he says people don't putobjectives and that's kind of an
issue.
So basically saying, without anobjective, a recruiter or a
hiring manager has to guesswhether or not you want the job.
(20:51):
If someone's applying for a job, they want the fucking job, but
anyway.
But yeah, but I get what he'skind of saying and he's just
basically saying, like anobjective, clearly state what
kind of role you're looking forin your next role, and just make
it concise and easy to read ina single glance.
So I, you know, I don't knowhow you feel about objectives I
(21:13):
rarely read them and if I do, itis just like a really quick
glance.
I don't put a lot like.
I didn't put a lot of thoughtinto them when I was recruiting,
but I don't know, that was theonly one that I was like eh.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Well, I highlighted that in green, as you see in the
notes, because I agree withthat, because that objective, if
it's tailored to the job andspecific, it'll make me stop and
it'll make me go from skimmingto reading with it.
So I like that idea.
But, as he says, you have to bespecific about it.
(21:47):
Seeking a senior roles engineerdah, dah, dah, dah dah and
don't do the what does he callit?
The good job things you know.
He gives an example somewherein here of a bad, a bad
objective.
But, yeah, just, you know, putit out there.
I like the objective.
But here's something else aboutme If you take the time and
(22:08):
effort to send a cover letter in, I'm reading, I will read the
cover letter.
And because there's so manythings that people are going to
put in cover letters thatthey're not going to put on the
resume hey, we're in a militarytown.
Hey, I'll be relocating to theVirginia Beach area in June of
2025.
(22:28):
If you put that in your coverletter this is why I see you're
from San Diego, california If Isee that San Diego, california
and I have a physical positionin Virginia Beach, unless you're
stellar, you're probably goingto go somewhere else.
But if that cover letter says,hey, I'm relocating here or hey,
I'm making a career transitionor I'm reentering the workforce
(22:49):
or something along those lines.
Because, like I said, ifsomeone takes the time to write
a cover letter, I'm going toread it.
Now that cover letter may notmake you even get me to your
resume if you have a shittycover letter.
But if it's a fill in the blankor blank, or even the worst is
the wrong company names andthings, and I'll forgive that
(23:09):
but it's going to be hard.
If everything else is good,I'll forgive that, but I do like
the objective.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
That can turn me from a glancer to a reader.
Yeah, no, I get it.
I agree with you.
The funny thing is is I justrealized when I interviewed for
the position at my current role,like three years ago, I
actually put an objective inthere.
I just realized that, hey itworked, it worked.
So you know what I take it back.
It's not stupid.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Oh, here's an example of a bad one Motivated
self-starter looking for apositive environment where I can
bring my technical skills andpassion to a worthy project.
A great coworker and mentor,adaptable, fast learner.
I mean those platitudes, yeah,exactly, I don't want to see
that.
I want to see give me twosentences of what you're looking
(24:04):
for and yeah, that's what Ilike about that.
So, and then another thing, andI never thought about this I've
been very fortunate.
I have to do a resume in a verylong time, but keep your resume
under a thousand words.
I like that.
I'm trying to think how youknow, is that one page?
No, it's like how many words goon a page?
(24:25):
I don't know.
I used to know is that when inhigh school you had to do this,
but he also did say don't use,don't cram it all in, and things
like that.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
So he says his resume is 700 words and covers a
30-year career.
So, yeah, that's important.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
That sounds about right.
Oh, and then this is one that Ihope we would all know is
optimizing for the applicanttracking system.
I did like the littlepercentage in there that says
over 80% of jobs go to someonewith a networking connection to
the role, and I was like whew,so that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, and I think that's overstated Mike from
Corporate Pizza Party.
I would want to say it was him.
I meant to look it up on hisInstagram.
He put a stat and actuallycited his source, I believe,
about.
If it was him about, you know,not as many jobs are coming from
networking as you think, and soyou know.
(25:33):
I think 80% is ridiculouslyhigh.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
That is very high.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I do track at my company.
I think it's very good.
About 30% of our new hires areresults of referrals and things
like that, and we just hiredsomeone who is a result of a
network.
He worked for a company thatone of our suppliers, who
supplied one of our suppliers orI guess, no, our supplier
(26:03):
supplied his company as well.
He became available and thesupplier said, hey, you've got
to contact my company where I'mworking and get in with them,
and so that type of networkingworked.
But it wasn't a directconnection.
You know one of our currentemployees, it was our suppliers
that know you need to work withthis.
So that made me feel good on acouple of counts when when I
(26:24):
heard that story that oursuppliers are even recommending
us to people they know.
But but cramming I've seenresumes before that.
I think they're trying to fitevery buzzword and keyword in
there and you've all heard putin white font to your all these
keywords don't do that thatthat's garbage.
(26:44):
I think if you just have awell-written resume especially
today with AI and stuff we don'tuse AI in our applicant
screening or anything but youwrite a good resume, it's going
to stand out.
You don't have to try and findall the buzzwords and stuff them
in there and make your resume700 words of buzzwords to do
(27:06):
that.
So there's a balance that needsto be done.
But I think a well-writtenresume is going to stand for
itself.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yeah, and that's what he said.
Like I think we're too focusedon the applicant tracking piece
and that, like I like how hesaid it.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
He he's like just write your resume for human eyes
, because yeah in his and ifyou're worried about ai, as ai
is getting better and better,it's going to be able to putting
it in human eye.
Making it read, readable forhuman eyes is going to help you
it will let's see.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Another mistake is listing education and
certifications in the wrongplace.
So, yeah, so if you're a newgraduate, you put your education
at the top.
If you have work experience,your education should be below
work history.
And then which is funny becauselike no one told me that weird
rule so someone, I think,informed me a few, probably like
(28:07):
seven or so years ago, eightyears ago.
They're like you really need to, like you're at your place in
your career where you need toput your education at the bottom
, and I was like what that'slike a rule, because apparently
that makes you look like anovice.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Well, I see it a couple ways.
And if you do your homework,you know who you're speaking to.
Maybe in networking, like, okay, I went to East Carolina, I
love East Carolina.
It's not the most prestigiousof schools.
My wife went to a much moreprestigious school than I did.
I'm probably keeping thatschool at the top of my list
because that's going to openmore doors for me, even if
(28:43):
you're not an alumni.
You say, oh, you know, itcatches the eye.
Once again it's somethingthat's going to make me stop if
I see someone from you know thisschool versus UCU which, like I
said, love it.
I'm still a student and thingslike that.
I love it.
But there are prestigiousschools and there are less
prestigious schools and ifyou're coming from one of those,
(29:05):
it doesn't have to be anetworking alumni type thing.
It's like, oh, you know, in thebusiness world, you go to,
let's just say, the WhartonSchool of Business, you go to
the Darden at UVA.
Nobody on earth, regardless ofyour sports affiliations, team
affiliations, can argue thosearen't some of the top.
(29:26):
And you can go on and on, butthose are the two that popped up
on the top of my head first.
But nobody can argue those arenot the top, some of the top
tier of business schools.
If that's what you're going forin the country, and that's
going to catch somebody's eye inmany regards.
But that also goes to customizeyour resume.
Know what you're going for, whoin many regards.
(29:47):
So, but that also goes,customize your resume.
You know.
Know what you're going for.
If this experience does wellfor you, you know, highlight,
move it to the top of yourbullet list, because if you got
15 bullets under a job, I'm notgetting in that skim.
I'm looking at one or two andif it's your 15th bullet, I
don't have a clue what you justsaid Under there.
So, and if it's your 15thbullet, I don't have a clue what
you just said, true, underthere.
And then it talks about GPA.
(30:08):
I remember coming out ofcollege I put my N major GPA.
I did not put my overall.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
GPA.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Because I failed theater and appreciation.
Not once, but twice.
I failed what we called libraryscience.
Ecu's library they've got a newone now, but in the 90s was so
effed up you had to take atwo-hour class on how to use the
libraries.
There wasn't internet back then, or the internet was in its
(30:35):
baby stages, and I failed thatclass.
I recently looked at mytranscripts.
I'm like, oh shit.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
How did.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
I.
What were you learning there?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Like dewey decimal system no, like okay now, if
something was on floor three yougo to when you get into the
quote-unquote, the stacks, andyou do not always want to go
into the stacks of the shit thathappened.
The stacks is a whole anotherstory, but I've seen things,
that's after dark?
Yeah, exactly, but if you wereon floor three and you were in
(31:11):
section 100, you would have togo, but you need to go to 200 in
the day.
You'd have to go back down tothe ground floor and go back up
to the third.
The library was built insections and very non-congruent
and like, yeah, we'll put thishere, we'll put there.
But now they've got a.
(31:31):
I mean, they got a like I don'tknow, 10 years ago some huge
grant for a new library and ithas some of the old library in
it.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Their library was so crappy they had to create a
course on how to deal with thecrappy library.
That's funny.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yeah, yeah, but I failed that course.
I failed.
Okay Funny story I failedremedial math three times in a
row.
I decided I was going to do itover the summer, away from there
.
But the school made me take aplacement exam.
Okay, I took my May final examin remedial math and failed.
(32:12):
The morning of a certain day,whatever day it was, I drove
home and went where I was goingto take classes over the summer.
They made me take the placementexam.
And not only I got placed intocalculus.
After failing remedial maththree times, I got placed in the
calculus.
My confidence level was shot.
(32:33):
So I took pre-calc.
I got an A in pre-calc and I'mlike what the fuck?
How do I fail remedial math?
It was a non-credit class.
It was worth three credits butdidn't count to anything as it's
remedial.
It didn't go to your graduationrequirements and so it was just
a thorn in my side forever,that one class.
(32:56):
And yeah, I failed a lot ofclasses and for two years I led
my fraternity in gpa.
So that's hilarious I can pay alot of classes and lead my
fraternity in gpa, but anyways,that's a whole, whole, nother
story.
But anyways, yeah, your yourgpa.
This one I found interesting.
(33:18):
The next one, the hobby,excluding hobbies and interests.
I that made me.
This one actually made me thinkwhen I saw that.
So what are your opinions onhobbies and interests?
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Okay, I have an anecdote with a point.
So, when I was working in talentacquisition, there was an
applicant who was going for amarketing role.
Now, granted, it's a marketingrole, it was so appropriate for
her to do what I'm about todescribe.
(33:51):
But thinking back, I'm like Istill remember this person's
resume.
I remember their name, Iremember.
Every time I'm like likethere's something to it.
So this individual completelybranded her resume, like she
treated it as if it was apersonal brand, through, true
(34:13):
and through and through.
She branded it.
She made a logo because she hada pug and she loved her pug.
The.
The her logo involved the pug.
So she had, like her, everythingon her resume as you usually
would.
And then she had like littlethick ticks on the side of like
(34:36):
hobbies and stuff like that andeverything was color-coded.
And her business card that shewas to leave afterward she made
into, like she took those candydog bones and she put them in a
candy wrapper and then she tookthe card.
She had it specially printed sothat when she folded it in half
(34:58):
and stapled it and actuallypackaged it, it looked like it
was the actual size of abusiness card but it looked like
a packaged candy that you wouldbuy in a store.
So to this day I'm like Iremember Julia, I remember her
pugs, I remember her otherhobbies that she listed
(35:19):
Brilliant.
And so when I read this I waslike, yeah, like it's that
humanizing piece that I think issuper important.
I don't hate it.
I think if you have room onyour resume because you know
that's high real estate, go forit.
I don't think it could hurt youLike, yeah, run marathons, put
it on there, like whatever.
(35:40):
I think it's smart.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
See, I have mixed feelings and you sold me much
more towards the included, but Ithink people have to be a
little careful about what theyput on you know number one in
OnlyFans, or on the resume orwhatever.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
I'm a top earner in my MLM.
Like don't do that in there.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, but you need to use some discretion.
But I will say, since I'm notreally actively involved in
recruiting but I do all theonboarding for all the new hires
, I spend a day with themessentially, and the Friday
before they start I go throughand I read their resumes top to
bottom.
If they had a cover letter,once again I didn't recruit them
(36:24):
through and I read theirresumes top to bottom.
I look at every.
You know, if they had a coverletter, once again I didn't
recruit them.
But I read their cover letter,I try and learn about them.
And you know there was a guy whowon some competitions for a
sourdough Nice and we turnedbreaks, we talked about that and
it did like I said, it didhumanize this person I hadn't
(36:45):
met before.
You know it's Friday evening,before I leave, that's before an
orientation, before someonestarts on Monday.
That's why I do Friday eveningor afternoon I'm scanning the
resumes, looking, seeing, I'mlooking at interview notes, if
there are any that were taken,and just to see what the
person's about.
And yeah, those type of thingsdo stand out.
(37:06):
So I'm not going to hate it.
But if you don't make it fit,then that's another thing.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
I will say the one thing I did learn from Julia's
resume wherever you are Julia,hello.
You are julia, hello.
But I will say like I reallyput some effort into branding my
resume to the point where myresume is different, like I have
a whole color palette that goeswith it and it's green, because
(37:38):
green is like the color ofinnovation and stuff like that,
and I'm like, so I'm very.
I started to get a littlepurposeful about using a little
splash of color andintentionally using it, so it's
not like an eyesore or anything,right, but yeah, I think that
also helps you stand out alittle bit too.
(37:58):
Just, not everything's blackand white.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Put a little color in there.
I will say, though, if, in ourapplicant tracking system, when
I pull out a resume, unless Iactually download it and look at
it as the PDF that was sent,our ATS basically pulls the text
out, so I won't see any of thecolor, I won't see any of the
graphics or any things like that.
(38:22):
And why?
How often do I download andprint somebody's resume, or
download it at least to see itin the actual PDF file, versus
the, the preview that's in theATS?
I mean, the formattinggenerally holds up in the, the
ATS, but the no colors or imagesseem to to make it through
(38:44):
there.
I don't know, it's fine, but Iwould miss out on that, and I
think part of that you mentionedthat person was marketing.
I think if you're marketing,you do something like that,
you're winning right off theboard.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
You're so winning.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Yeah, there are some jobs.
You know computer well, maybecomputer programmer or something
.
I'm trying to think ofsomething that is less creative
or what have you I don't know astatistician or something like
that.
Maybe you're not going to anactuarial accountant or
something along those lines.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
I don't know, maybe they could put a secret message
in binary code or something.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, put something out there that draws your
attention to the resume.
But yeah, I thought that was agood article and for Business
Insider I'll give it a thumbs up.
As I'm very cynical aboutBusiness Insider, maybe one day
I'll start trying to throw upsome crappy articles.
See if I can get published inBusiness Insider.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Yeah, apparently, ethan Evans had some really good
points here, so good job, ethan.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Yeah, yeah, it's very rare that A like I said, if I
see Business Insider, unless I'mbeing a glutton for punishment,
I'm moving.
I'll read the headline and moveon.
But yeah, maybe I need to notbe so cynical.
But that sort of leads us toanother topic.
And you read the article.
(40:09):
I didn't.
My news aggregator sent me thisheadline from Business Insider
I've never heard of anythinglike this before.
Former Google HR chief reactsto Meta's block list.
And so I didn't read thearticle.
But I'm like, and then if youuse Google News for aggregator
or anything like that, it givesyou three other articles on the
(40:30):
same thing Medics, company lists, blocks, employees and their
whatever.
And I'm like, so I didn't readit.
You, you took the dive and youfound out a little bit, because
I'm thinking how many every ATS,yeah, or HRS, has an option to
make someone a non-rehirable,whatever you want to term it,
(40:53):
and things like that.
I'm like, if you want to callit blacklisted people, or
blocklisted as he calls it, dude, you're so not rehirable, click
and uh, or eligible for rehire,no, I've.
I've done that hundreds oftimes in my career and never
thought twice about it.
So, oh, but here's a funnystory.
(41:16):
So I worked somewhere, my, my,someone underneath me ended up
taking my position after I left.
But I, when their co-workersleft us without giving notice
and just basically they walkedoff the job and I put the HRS at
that company.
I put non-rehirable and thisperson was so nice, she calls me
(41:37):
.
I noticed you put this personand did not rehire.
What should I do?
I've talked to her and thingslike that.
I said it's your HR manager now, not me.
If you want to do it, uh, haveat it.
I, I just you know.
Uh, I said you were, you wereright there.
She walked out on us and I waslike will she walk out on you?
Maybe, maybe not, but uh, Ijust said you know, uh, it's,
(41:59):
it's your show now.
So yeah.
Yeah, I think it worked outbetter between the two of them.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
Nice.
I think you're right that whenI first read it, that was the
thing I immediately thought wasthat a lot of companies have
do-not-hires.
But as I was Looking into it,it looks like a bunch of people
were laid off in 2022 and 2023.
And some people, due to thoselayoffs, as jobs came available,
(42:31):
they were trying to reapply,and some of these people were
finding out during theirapplication process.
The recruiter would then turnaround and be like oh, I didn't
realize, you're not rehirable inthe system, which a lot of
people were confused becausethese are individuals who didn't
(42:53):
have any prior performanceissues.
They were laid off due to, like, a business decision, not due
to performance or due toanything you know bad.
So it's very interesting thatthere's this secret block list
(43:14):
of individuals who they let go.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Yeah, and now, knowing I I have heard of
companies that you know what I'mthinking of predates this story
.
It was an IT company and theywere known at the time.
You leave them, you'rebasically dead to them and
you're not getting another jobif you want to come back, that's
(43:40):
one thing, but I was saying ifthey were laid off.
I think, especially in this dayand age of hiring people,
finding people at a premium andone of the things I was really
good at at another company is Isought out when I was recruiting
, I sought out former employees.
Hey, how are you doing?
We have a position we want totalk to you about again
(44:10):
Contacting your former out ofthe blue they didn't send a
resume or anything and trying todraw them back.
If they left on good terms.
They weren't on the block list.
But you know, I just find ithard to believe and maybe you
know because it's meta and ofcourse, the Business Insider
picture shows this awful pictureof Mark Zuckerberg looking like
, I don't know, somebody justkicked his dog or something like
that and he's angry, that'sanother thing I love about
business.
(44:32):
Poor, sad billionaire.
Exactly, but I love when thepictures they use are like that.
But yeah, I think it'sshort-sighted.
But maybe Facebook, google, allthese companies maybe they have
so many people wanting to work,be in a thing company that they
get so many applications theydon't care too much.
(44:54):
They quoted Business.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
Insider, but apparently a director was
actively trying to rehire asenior engineer and the director
expressed frustration aboutthis block, this hiring block,
(45:16):
and said that it was preventingthem from rehiring multiple
people that they hoped torecruit back onto their team.
That they hoped to recruit backonto their team.
In an email viewed by BusinessInsider, the manager expressed
frustration that they couldn'tfigure out why someone they
wanted to rehire and had endedup on the block list in the
first place.
(45:36):
It seemed that they wererunning into a mechanism outside
of normal recruiting tools andthat they had not seen anyone
successfully get off this listand be able to join or be able
to interview at the companyagain.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Oh, that was what I was going to ask.
This is not carved in stone atmy current company and put
someone as do not hire and thena manager comes back to me.
I'll engage the conversationand most of the time it's not me
making the decision thatsomebody's not re-hireable,
(46:12):
anyways, it's their managerdoing it.
Me, I've done it, I've done itany number of times, but the
vast majority is the managerlike this clown's done with us
or something like that.
But if a manager come to say,hey, you know, I'd like to hire
john doe again and like, okay,well, he's, mark, do not hire
what?
And then you have theconversation you know, maybe, or
(46:35):
they in a bad time in theirlife and you know who knows.
So, yeah, I, I don't, I, I donot mind having a do not hire
list, but I also think thereneeds to be some judgment that
the person's prior manager wantsto rehire them.
Okay, they know what they'regetting into more than anybody
else.
Speaker 3 (46:59):
So yeah, that's pretty crazy, though, was that
people former employees that uhsaid that they reapplied for a
role after the layoffs, notbecause they liked meta, but
because the pay was good, andthis is the quote.
It's the worst company I'veever worked for, but they also
(47:19):
paid the best, and if I couldget in there for a couple more
years and make bank, I would doit.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Okay, then that's not getting you off the do not hire
list.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
And actually.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
I worked at it for exactly one year.
I worked at a temp agency andnot only did we have a do not
hire list, but we had what wecalled a GPR.
In that rehireable GPR, thegood company's name started with
a P.
What is the R stand for, Idon't know, but they were a
representative.
(47:55):
So if we and we would like whenI would go into the ATS like we
have a position, I'd look andsee.
Oh, I'd first go to our GPRs,because a lot of the people that
I would mark as GPRs werepeople who only wanted to do
temp work and they only want todo like, hey, I'll do two weeks
(48:16):
here, and then you know I don'twant to work for three months
again.
And I would just call them, hey, I've got this thing.
And they'd tell me, no, I'mlike OK, fine, but I knew that
when I did put them somewhere,they would go in and kick ass
and do well and things like that.
So there is a flip side to thedo not hire list as well that
I've actually personallyexperienced.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
I'm probably on Starbucks.
Do not rehire.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
Oh, got to hear the story behind that one.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
I think I told this story before.
That was like the only time inmy life where I walked off a job
because the manager pissed meoff so much.
But yeah, like it was.
I was a shift supervisor and shehad asked me to work on a night
that I requested off because Ihad an exam that this was
college.
I had an exam the next day.
And she was like too bad, sosad.
(49:07):
And I was like, okay, I guessI'll do it.
But then I found someone tocover my shift and while I'm at
home like studying, I get aphone call from this manager out
at a bar, like a few shots inbeing like you need to get back
to the store because so and sohe said he would cover your
shifts but he has no authorityto do so.
(49:27):
And I'm like, excuse me, andshe's like I don't know, she's
like if you don't get back there, he's gonna get fired and
that'll be on you.
And I was like so I went backto the store because I actually
like, like the guy, he was agood like, he was a friend, and
so, yeah, the next day I came inand I was like, fuck you.
(49:48):
I didn't say that I basicallythrew the keys on the counter,
I'm like I'm quitting, and she'slike when.
I'm like today, and she waslike you have to get your shifts
covered.
And I remember just looking ather and being like you're the
manager, so I guess you're goingto have to manage that.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
And I, like you, know Starbucks has such a bad
reputation and I know someonewho loved their time working.
I loved my time working there.
Speaker 3 (50:12):
I did like to this day, loved it.
I, I still, you know, drink,drink the, drink the coffee,
drink the Kool-Aid.
But but, oh, I could go down arabbit hole right now and be so
excited that they're bringingback third place and that
they're doing for here, coffeesagain.
It's, it's a brilliant move.
Great, the CEO is, I think, ismoving in a good direction.
(50:33):
But, yeah, that manager wasjust a nightmare and she she was
, it was clicky and she had herbest friends working there and
she was very immature, like Idon't know how she got promoted
into that role, um, but yeah,like she was just, uh, an
asshole.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
So yeah, well, one thing I was amazed at when my
daughter was in college.
She worked retail and the theyhad an app and if you wanted to
give up a ship, pick up or giveup, they had an app.
You.
And if you wanted to give up ashift, pick up or give up, they
had an app.
You could go in and put youryou're still responsible until
someone else covered it.
But when someone else checkedthat box I'm taking this shift
(51:15):
then you were off the hook and Iloved it.
I love that idea and my daughterloved it as, hey, I don't have
anything going on.
She would just log in and say,oh, I can work tomorrow, I can
work later this afternoon, andother people didn't mind.
Now she got talked to onceabout her overtime and I'm like
(51:37):
I told her you know, okay, butif you're accepted, their system
has some rules.
It didn't allow oh, you havetoo many hours, you're not going
to, we're not going to allowyou to do this.
But that's not her fault, butsomeone you know your, your
cashier, shouldn't be worriedabout how many hours a week
they're working if they could doit.
So I just found that app.
(51:57):
I loved that technology, I lovethe thought behind it and I was
like that's it, man.
I wish I had that when I was ateenager, because I would have
been the guy who's picking upshifts if I could.
Hey, it's Wednesday night, I'mnot doing jack, so maybe I'll
just make a couple bucks tonight.
Speaker 3 (52:13):
Yeah, I will say I did skim over the part.
I don't know why.
I'm like this is an HR audience.
The point why, he quote unquote.
The point why he quote unquotecouldn't work was because he was
going into overtime and that'swhy and she had originally given
the okay of switching a shift,because we're like I'm switching
(52:37):
shifts with so-and-so or notswitching, but he's picking up
my shift and she's like, cool,cool.
But I think she had realizedwhile she was out drinking that
that him working was going toput him into overtime and that
was probably a shitty situationfor her as a store manager.
So for her then to have turnedit around and been like he's
(52:59):
gonna get fired, so you betterget back there, and if you don't
, then his firing is going to beon you is like no, you are
going to get your hand slappedby the district manager and this
is the bullshit.
You did so anyway, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
I can't imagine the manager saying somebody else's
termination is going to be onanother employee his blood is on
your hands.
Speaker 3 (53:23):
Anyway looking back on that, I'm like, oh no, you're
just saving your ass.
And I really, in hindsight,like no, he wasn't going to get
fired.
I wasn't going to get fired.
I should have just told her Iwas unavailable and hung up my
phone.
But, you don't know this stuff.
If you're like a collegestudent working an hourly,
hourly, part-time role andyou've never been exposed to,
(53:46):
like you know, the HRE, labor-yside of work, like you don't
know your rights, you don't knowhow things work, so you just
take what your manager says atface value, no matter how wrong
they are.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
Yeah, that's absolutely.
That's absolutely true.
And that's why you get some ofthese companies that do,
especially, unfortunately, whenyou're dealing with high school,
college level kids who don'tknow any better and they don't
know how to stand up forthemselves and say no when they
should.
And you get the a-holes whotake advantage of them multiple
(54:21):
ways, and it's just no yeah ofthem in multiple ways and it's
just no yeah, that's yeah.
Thankfully for our little babewhen she gets to be that age and
gets a part-time job she'llhave two HR parents to let her
know what her rights are and shecan stand up for herself.
Yeah, yeah, my kids, my daughter, doesn't come to me too much
(54:43):
for advice on the job.
You know, I've reviewed, Ireview her resumes and I help
her and I mock interview with mykids and things like that.
But, and, and the thing is,mock interview with me, I, I'm,
I'm fucking brutally honest andthey're not getting any sugar.
Oh, you did so well, daughter.
No, not quite, but anyways.
(55:04):
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So thank you all very much.
(55:25):
Yep, the intro and outro musicis the underscore orchestra,
devil, the devil and AndrewCulpa does the intro.
So, as always, I'm Warren, I'mCece and we're here helping you
survive HR one.
What the fuck moment at a time.
Had you actually read the email, you would know that
the podcast you are about tolisten to could contain explicit
language and offensive content.
These HR experts' views are notrepresentative of their past,
present or future employers.
If you have ever heard mymanager is unfair to me.
I need you to reset my HRportal password, or Can I write
(00:24):
up my employee for crying toomuch?
Welcome to our little safe zone.
Welcome to Jaded HR.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Welcome to JDHR, the podcast by two HR professionals.
We want to help you get throughthe workday by saying
everything you're thinking, butsay it out loud.
I'm Warren.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
I'm Cece.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Right, wow, so obviously the office episode
still isn't post.
I am going to spend some timeworking on it very shortly, but
this episode is going to comeout before the Office episode
does.
But that'll be next, and ournext recording in two weeks is
going to be a special one, sostay tuned for that everybody.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, let's see here.
So it's been an interesting.
You know I'm not going to gointo all the details that we've
been talking offline and aboutthe interesting two weeks I've
had and you've had aninteresting two weeks as well,
but, wow, shit's getting realsometimes.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Seriously.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
But anyways.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
It's crazy out there.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Literally yeah.
And speaking of crazy, thatjust blows us straight into one
of the topics I was going to seesome, some crazy people on.
Well, I'll start with the babywombat thief.
I I I haven't followed thestory other than what's on the
news, but you see the video.
(02:01):
She's videoed herself ofstealing the baby wombat from
its mother and my thing is okay.
What the hell is she going todo with it?
You're not going to be able toput it on a plane and take it
back to the United States withyou or anything.
Customs is not going to lookfavorably upon that.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
It's so dumb.
She was just doing it for clout.
It's clear that she just wantedsocial media followers.
Yeah, like, it's clear that shejust wanted social media
followers.
And, oh like, leave it alone.
And the way the mother was like, oh no, she deserves to be like
she deserves diarrhea.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Oh, I think it should be worse.
You know, australia shoulddeport her to someplace horrible
and not let her go back to theUnited States, at least
immediately.
And I just, and once again, Ihaven't seen anything more than
what was on the news, but itseems like at first she was
snapping back at people who werecoming at her for it, and today
on the news actually, I saw Ispent too much time waiting in
the lobby where we have all thenews monitors and I see these
(03:02):
things and she's apologizingprofusely and what has happened
is she's getting canceledrightfully so, and yeah, and now
, oh my gosh, right, and I don'tknow how many followers she had
, or sponsorship deals oranything like that she might
have had, but still, you don'tmess with Australia, animals too
(03:23):
.
Half of them are poisonous.
They're not going to kill you,yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Half of them can kill you and the others are
protected and they take thatstuff so seriously.
Oh yeah, so I mean, just don'tmess, Don't touch the animals.
It's not a petting zoo.
The world is not your pettingzoo.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Okay, speaking of which, I have a little patch.
Don't pet the fluffy cows.
I used to love YellowstoneNational Park.
I probably won't go there everagain in my life.
It's insanity on steroids, butI love.
One of my favorite Instagramsites is Torons of Yellowstone,
(04:02):
and you see all these peoplegetting way too close to Buffalo
.
There's one not too long agowhere Buffalo is charging a dude
but whoever's videotaping itsort of runs away before you get
to see the person get tossedaround.
And I'm like you know, I'mrooting every time I see those
things.
I'm rooting for the Buffalo,I'm rooting for the bear, the
(04:28):
buffalo.
I'm rooting for the bear.
I'm rooting for you know.
Okay, yeah, if you play stupidgames, win stupid prizes, and I
just love seeing that.
The same thing applies to this.
This lady who wanted to do tobe become insta famous or
whatever with the wombat.
So oh, and I will say wombatsare really.
If animals in australia are,either really cool and really
cute or they are fugly.
(04:48):
They don't have average animalsin Australia.
Like I said, they kill you orthey don't, or they're ugly or
they're not, but wombats are.
They're pretty darn cuteanimals.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
They're so cute, leave the babies alone.
But just think about it.
That would never happen to ahuman.
No one's going to come up to mein public with my baby and grab
it from me and be like look,how cute it is.
You would be arrested for that.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah, you would Kidnapping.
Yeah, that's literallykidnapping.
So yeah, that's something crazy.
But also in the news thishappened not terribly far from
me in Virginia, but the trackgirl who was having assault
charges pressed against her forsmacking her now the runner in
(05:41):
the head with the baton Now Idon't know anything about track
and field, I'm assuming they'renot heavy like a lead pipe or
anything, but you're stillsmacking and the girl had a
concussion and once again foundout this sitting in the lobby of
my building waiting for aconference room and the girl's
on TV crying and I was trippingand I was falling and my and I
(06:05):
you know I'm like you were nottripping, you assailed that
other girl and I just own up toit.
You know she's obviously 18 ifthey're putting her name and
everything out there.
So own up to it, be an adultand grow up.
And her parents were sittingbeside her and I was like, come
(06:28):
on, dad, mom, I'm just like,okay, there's no way that was
tripping and falling in.
And now that her name's outthere, just like the wombat baby
thief, you know who's going towant to hire this person.
You know a crime is someone whophysically lashes out at people
.
It's, it's crazy.
And add another little twistinto it.
(06:49):
I've mentioned before, I spent15 years as a baseball umpire
and I.
I worked high school, I workedcollege, I worked, you know, I,
I went up the ranks and I one ofthe reasons I got out of it is
just the shenanigans and theridiculousness is getting to the
extreme Now and the shenanigansseem to be more the lower down
(07:12):
the food chain you go, the moreshenanigans you get, the mommy
and daddy drama.
And I pay, we pay over $15,000a year to play baseball and da
da da.
Okay, good for you.
That doesn't mean you, therules change and stuff like that
.
But the shenanigans, when youget to competitive high schools,
you know the shenanigans dieoff very quickly and in college,
(07:33):
once again, there's less of it.
It goes down and most of theshenanigans are harmless.
You're not going to have, youknow, people doing things like
that.
Or I never accounted for it atthe college level or even upper
level, high school level, butyou know the sports and parents.
It just made it.
It took something I loved todeath and it made it something.
(07:55):
Yeah, I thought I'd have aharder, a bigger problem leaving
it and you know I haven't doneit in six, seven years and don't
miss it.
Oh, that's pity yeah.
So yeah, I just thought of that,Like what you just said.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
I was watching some content creator just kind of
like snarking on another contentcreator, but the person that he
was talking about is a trainwreck.
Like she is just an alcoholictrain wreck but makes a shit ton
of money on like tiktok andsurprise only fans oh boy and
like the wish no judgment.
(08:32):
You know, you do you?
But at the same time, like hemade this comment so flippantly,
he was like I mean you, youwant to get your daughter back.
Why are you making only fanscontent?
Why don't you get a normal jobat a company?
And I'm like, oh, like, I thinkit's really hard for people to
like, once you're out there,especially with this individual
who has, like I don't know, likehundreds of thousands of
(08:55):
followers and it's kind ofbecoming infamous for some of
the shit she's doing.
It's hard just like flip aswitch one day and be like, oh,
I'm gonna work at a corporatejob because it's just, it's not
that easy, like, if your name isout there, whether it be
something infamous or somethingyou know off the beaten path,
like only fans, like it's hardjust to you know, turn on a
(09:19):
straight path and go tocorporate.
Like unfortunately, yeah likepeople are on the internet.
People know things, it isdifficult Once you become famous
.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
I mean, look at the lady who called the bird watcher
a racist and called the police.
Nobody knew who she was.
Oh yeah, put the internetsleuths on her, bam.
I mean instantly.
Everybody knew who she was andyou may use a pseudonym or
something like that online, butyou know, if you do something
(09:50):
stupid then people are going tofind you and it's you know.
I see this meme probably once aweek on Instagram or Facebook
and the meme is some kidstalking and remember before
OnlyFans, when your mom onlysold Avon.
I think that's funny, but yeah,anywho, so wow.
(10:15):
But we are going to talk aboutHR today.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Yeah, we are.
That was our Around the Worldin five minutes.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, Well, okay, we just talked about this a little,
while you and I both seem tomiss the boat on this, the the
husband and wife work wife cards.
Work husband work wife cardsout there.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
For Valentine's Day.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
On for Valentine's Day and I'm like I I must've
been under a cave or whateverduring the Valentine's Day and
I'm like I must have been undera cave or whatever during the
Valentine's Day thing.
But it pulled up in myalgorithm and I'm seeing it
everywhere.
Hr Manifesto posted it.
I've seen it so many differentways.
I'm like wow.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
For a second.
I thought it was like you justexplained it to me.
I didn't see anything yet and Iwas like my visceral reaction
was just like uh-uh-uh.
And then I had a moment where Iwas like maybe I'm overreacting
, maybe this is just somethingfunny, and then it was worse.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
It was worse.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Because I didn't realize that the cards were
being sold in Hallmark and crap.
And I'm like, are you effingserious?
That's insane.
I hate it.
I hate it.
I'm not a jealous type, but ifmy husband came home and was
like, hey, look what myco-worker gave me, I would tear
(11:44):
his eyeballs out or someone'seyeballs out, Like no, well,
that would be my fear, even if Igot it for a co-worker that I'm
close with or something, havingtheir significant other come
and hunt me down.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I've learned the hard way I'm not a fighter.
I've learned that the very hardway.
I'm not the fighter.
And unless I have 30 fraternitybrothers with me, then I can be
yeah, yeah, but one-on-one,nope, not going to do it.
But that's what I'd be afraidof.
I give you a card like that toyou.
Kevin's going to come and wringmy neck, he's going to drive
(12:20):
cross-country.
And I'm like, no, yeah, exactlyNow, if I were to get one.
My wife was like, good, takehim.
But anyways, I loved it.
I think we just watched thememe together, the little HR
manifesto.
It was like, oh no, don't spend$4.95 to get yourself fired.
And I thought that was the bestline you could say about that
(12:47):
yeah, don't spend $4.99.99.
But on a relate note, we justgot past, we survived.
Did everybody survive stpatrick's day with no pinching
in the workplace?
That is so funny.
I well, I, I personally workfrom home, so yeah, oh yeah, I
have not ever dealt with it, butI've heard a couple of times of
people having to deal withpinching at the workplace.
(13:08):
Oh geez people.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Just don't touch people, just don't touch them.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah, don't touch people.
Oh, let's see here.
So last episode I was talkingabout my little drama employee
calling me from their tax officeor whatever to needing their
stuff.
But I've seen in uh jamie at uhhr besties once again.
She had this great meme aboutbe nice to your payroll and hr
(13:35):
people just because you getfucked is you didn't do your
taxes right.
Uh, and she.
She was much nicer about itthan I was.
You know, that's not ourproblem.
I haven't experienced this insome time, but I have been there
when y'all have fucked up mytaxes and I owe all this money
and all that.
Like, oh, did I fill out yourW-4 for you?
(13:55):
Do I know what your?
Maybe you've got OnlyFans thatyou're earning money from they
send you your 1099, and nowyou've got to pay a lot of taxes
.
That's self-employment.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
You got to claim that OF that OF income.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
But I don't know what their situation is.
And on top of that, this isI've seen this, not recently,
but I've seen it before HRpeople online talking about
we're not tax professionals,y'all.
And by telling people how tofill out their forms, I will
give high level advice.
(14:31):
The more exemptions you claim,the less they take out, and I
will.
If someone puts exempt on there, I will say are you sure you
want to do this?
We might want to look into it.
But if they say sure, I'll letthe exempt say exempt and I'll
be waiting for that lock-inletter from the IRS.
But in however many months ittakes them to get around to it.
(14:51):
But we're not tax experts.
And on top of that I wastalking to someone else about
this Companies have errors andomission assurance and things
like that, but that only appliesif you're working within the
scope of your work.
So if I'm doing my job and Idon't know I do something wrong,
bad, illegal and it gets ussued, the company has errors and
(15:12):
emissions insurance on me, butit will not apply if I'm doing
something I'm not supposed to bedoing, like giving tax advice
and things like that, because itwill say, no, you're not
working the scope of your joband you will be responsible for
it.
So HR, payroll people, even ifin your prior life you are a CPA
, you're not acting as it atwork.
(15:34):
Don't give that tax advice.
I've seen that too many timesand I just stay away.
Stop Danger, will RobinsonDanger.
So anyway, you know this is astrange episode because we both
did our homework ahead of time,so we've got a Google Doc of all
(15:54):
of our stuff here.
Well, I'll jump ahead to yourthing.
What you pulled up, I reallylike this when you sent it to me
.
So let's talk about resumes.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
So resumes.
So every once in a while yousee one of those articles come
up by some expert who has histop five ways of his or her top
five ways of doing everythingright, and it came across me,
like my browser.
It was like, hey, businessInsider posted this.
Oh no, not Business Insider, Iknow.
(16:29):
And I was like what?
And apparently Ethan Evans saysthat he has viewed over what is
it?
10,000 resumes and had morethan 2,500 interviews.
And why do we care about whatEthan Evans has to say?
Because he's done this for somany years at so many companies,
(16:50):
including Big Daddy, amazon.
So he basically put out whatthe top things that we should be
doing on our resumes.
So I'm going to be honest withyou.
I started reading this with alittle bit of a jaded eye I'm
like another listicle, buthonestly I kind of agree with a
lot of what he says.
(17:10):
So the number one thing is likeno results, only activities.
To.
According to the article is thatpeople tend to just list the
things that they are responsiblefor.
So like I wrote code or Imanaged people or whatever it
might be, but people aren'tputting results on there.
(17:33):
And I was like, oh, like, sosmart.
So basically, like if you couldlink your results to or to what
you've done that actuallyimproved the company.
It shows your value.
Another thing is like if youhave that stuff tangibly that
you can share, link it to yourresume which is funny, because I
(17:56):
never even considered that.
I was like, oh yeah, idiot.
Like, link your award, linkyour stuff there so people can
click on it and see, like allthis tangible stuff.
But yeah, like I thought, award, link your stuff there so
people can click on it and see,like all this tangible stuff.
But yeah, like I thought thatthat was brilliant.
That's it's not even likebrilliant, it's more like really
common that people don't do,especially as you get up the up
(18:17):
the ladder in your career and gointo more specialized roles or
more senior roles like thoseresults are so important.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah, and like you, when you sent this, I started
reading it as a jaded thing,especially when I get to the
line.
I've reviewed more than 10,000resumes and conducted more than
2,500 interviews.
If you're getting 2,500interviews out of 10,000 resumes
, damn, one out of four you'regood, but but anyways and then
of course they throw the thecompanies, as everybody has to
(18:46):
put the the company they theydid.
You know, nobody would know thenames of any of the companies
I've worked for, but you know Ispent nearly 10 years recruiting
.
I can't imagine how manyhundreds of of thousands of
resumes I've reviewed, orthousands of resume.
But I don't work for either thecool Fang companies Now that
I'm cool enough to know whatFang is, kind of so.
(19:08):
But you know that that'ssomething in being so early on
that made me, that heightened myjadedness.
But then it goes on in thereand and one of the, the second
line of the articles recruitersskim resumes quickly.
So clarity and conciseness iscrucial for success, absolutely.
I've seen things where you haveless than 10 seconds to make an
(19:30):
impression.
I think you might even haveless.
Yeah, I pull up a resume, I skimit real quick and if it doesn't
make me want to actually gobeyond skimming into reading,
you're gone.
You're in the next pile and Ido this when I'm hiring.
I have an A, a, b and a C pileand A my first time through A is
(19:51):
going to be like the hard.
I probably will have one or twoA's in there, if even the B's
are okay and then the C.
I'll revisit them, the Cs, if Idon't have any luck.
But I just go through, gothrough.
And yeah, you don't have muchtime and yeah, I agree with some
(20:14):
of these mistakes.
Yeah, like I said, he says yourresume has to be optimized to
catch the eye quickly.
The goal is for them to skim it.
Think about, think it would beworthwhile to interview you.
Just catch the eye.
Just catch the eye and not withyour photo.
I don't want that.
Don't put a photo.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yeah.
So one of the other things islike okay, so this one I'm kind
of about.
But he says people don't putobjectives and that's kind of an
issue.
So basically saying, without anobjective, a recruiter or a
hiring manager has to guesswhether or not you want the job.
(20:51):
If someone's applying for a job, they want the fucking job, but
anyway.
But yeah, but I get what he'skind of saying and he's just
basically saying, like anobjective, clearly state what
kind of role you're looking forin your next role, and just make
it concise and easy to read ina single glance.
So I, you know, I don't knowhow you feel about objectives I
(21:13):
rarely read them and if I do, itis just like a really quick
glance.
I don't put a lot like.
I didn't put a lot of thoughtinto them when I was recruiting,
but I don't know, that was theonly one that I was like eh.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Well, I highlighted that in green, as you see in the
notes, because I agree withthat, because that objective, if
it's tailored to the job andspecific, it'll make me stop and
it'll make me go from skimmingto reading with it.
So I like that idea.
But, as he says, you have to bespecific about it.
(21:47):
Seeking a senior roles engineerdah, dah, dah, dah dah and
don't do the what does he callit?
The good job things you know.
He gives an example somewherein here of a bad, a bad
objective.
But, yeah, just, you know, putit out there.
I like the objective.
But here's something else aboutme If you take the time and
(22:08):
effort to send a cover letter in, I'm reading, I will read the
cover letter.
And because there's so manythings that people are going to
put in cover letters thatthey're not going to put on the
resume hey, we're in a militarytown.
Hey, I'll be relocating to theVirginia Beach area in June of
2025.
(22:28):
If you put that in your coverletter this is why I see you're
from San Diego, california If Isee that San Diego, california
and I have a physical positionin Virginia Beach, unless you're
stellar, you're probably goingto go somewhere else.
But if that cover letter says,hey, I'm relocating here or hey,
I'm making a career transitionor I'm reentering the workforce
(22:49):
or something along those lines.
Because, like I said, ifsomeone takes the time to write
a cover letter, I'm going toread it.
Now that cover letter may notmake you even get me to your
resume if you have a shittycover letter.
But if it's a fill in the blankor blank, or even the worst is
the wrong company names andthings, and I'll forgive that
(23:09):
but it's going to be hard.
If everything else is good,I'll forgive that, but I do like
the objective.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
That can turn me from a glancer to a reader.
Yeah, no, I get it.
I agree with you.
The funny thing is is I justrealized when I interviewed for
the position at my current role,like three years ago, I
actually put an objective inthere.
I just realized that, hey itworked, it worked.
So you know what I take it back.
It's not stupid.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Oh, here's an example of a bad one Motivated
self-starter looking for apositive environment where I can
bring my technical skills andpassion to a worthy project.
A great coworker and mentor,adaptable, fast learner.
I mean those platitudes, yeah,exactly, I don't want to see
that.
I want to see give me twosentences of what you're looking
(24:04):
for and yeah, that's what Ilike about that.
So, and then another thing, andI never thought about this I've
been very fortunate.
I have to do a resume in a verylong time, but keep your resume
under a thousand words.
I like that.
I'm trying to think how youknow, is that one page?
No, it's like how many words goon a page?
(24:25):
I don't know.
I used to know is that when inhigh school you had to do this,
but he also did say don't use,don't cram it all in, and things
like that.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
So he says his resume is 700 words and covers a
30-year career.
So, yeah, that's important.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
That sounds about right.
Oh, and then this is one that Ihope we would all know is
optimizing for the applicanttracking system.
I did like the littlepercentage in there that says
over 80% of jobs go to someonewith a networking connection to
the role, and I was like whew,so that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, and I think that's overstated Mike from
Corporate Pizza Party.
I would want to say it was him.
I meant to look it up on hisInstagram.
He put a stat and actuallycited his source, I believe,
about.
If it was him about, you know,not as many jobs are coming from
networking as you think, and soyou know.
(25:33):
I think 80% is ridiculouslyhigh.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
That is very high.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I do track at my company.
I think it's very good.
About 30% of our new hires areresults of referrals and things
like that, and we just hiredsomeone who is a result of a
network.
He worked for a company thatone of our suppliers, who
supplied one of our suppliers orI guess, no, our supplier
(26:03):
supplied his company as well.
He became available and thesupplier said, hey, you've got
to contact my company where I'mworking and get in with them,
and so that type of networkingworked.
But it wasn't a directconnection.
You know one of our currentemployees, it was our suppliers
that know you need to work withthis.
So that made me feel good on acouple of counts when when I
(26:24):
heard that story that oursuppliers are even recommending
us to people they know.
But but cramming I've seenresumes before that.
I think they're trying to fitevery buzzword and keyword in
there and you've all heard putin white font to your all these
keywords don't do that thatthat's garbage.
(26:44):
I think if you just have awell-written resume especially
today with AI and stuff we don'tuse AI in our applicant
screening or anything but youwrite a good resume, it's going
to stand out.
You don't have to try and findall the buzzwords and stuff them
in there and make your resume700 words of buzzwords to do
(27:06):
that.
So there's a balance that needsto be done.
But I think a well-writtenresume is going to stand for
itself.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yeah, and that's what he said.
Like I think we're too focusedon the applicant tracking piece
and that, like I like how hesaid it.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
He he's like just write your resume for human eyes
, because yeah in his and ifyou're worried about ai, as ai
is getting better and better,it's going to be able to putting
it in human eye.
Making it read, readable forhuman eyes is going to help you
it will let's see.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Another mistake is listing education and
certifications in the wrongplace.
So, yeah, so if you're a newgraduate, you put your education
at the top.
If you have work experience,your education should be below
work history.
And then which is funny becauselike no one told me that weird
rule so someone, I think,informed me a few, probably like
(28:07):
seven or so years ago, eightyears ago.
They're like you really need to, like you're at your place in
your career where you need toput your education at the bottom
, and I was like what that'slike a rule, because apparently
that makes you look like anovice.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Well, I see it a couple ways.
And if you do your homework,you know who you're speaking to.
Maybe in networking, like, okay, I went to East Carolina, I
love East Carolina.
It's not the most prestigiousof schools.
My wife went to a much moreprestigious school than I did.
I'm probably keeping thatschool at the top of my list
because that's going to openmore doors for me, even if
(28:43):
you're not an alumni.
You say, oh, you know, itcatches the eye.
Once again it's somethingthat's going to make me stop if
I see someone from you know thisschool versus UCU which, like I
said, love it.
I'm still a student and thingslike that.
I love it.
But there are prestigiousschools and there are less
prestigious schools and ifyou're coming from one of those,
(29:05):
it doesn't have to be anetworking alumni type thing.
It's like, oh, you know, in thebusiness world, you go to,
let's just say, the WhartonSchool of Business, you go to
the Darden at UVA.
Nobody on earth, regardless ofyour sports affiliations, team
affiliations, can argue thosearen't some of the top.
(29:26):
And you can go on and on, butthose are the two that popped up
on the top of my head first.
But nobody can argue those arenot the top, some of the top
tier of business schools.
If that's what you're going forin the country, and that's
going to catch somebody's eye inmany regards.
But that also goes to customizeyour resume.
Know what you're going for, whoin many regards.
(29:47):
So, but that also goes,customize your resume.
You know.
Know what you're going for.
If this experience does wellfor you, you know, highlight,
move it to the top of yourbullet list, because if you got
15 bullets under a job, I'm notgetting in that skim.
I'm looking at one or two andif it's your 15th bullet, I
don't have a clue what you justsaid Under there.
So, and if it's your 15thbullet, I don't have a clue what
you just said, true, underthere.
And then it talks about GPA.
(30:08):
I remember coming out ofcollege I put my N major GPA.
I did not put my overall.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
GPA.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Because I failed theater and appreciation.
Not once, but twice.
I failed what we called libraryscience.
Ecu's library they've got a newone now, but in the 90s was so
effed up you had to take atwo-hour class on how to use the
libraries.
There wasn't internet back then, or the internet was in its
(30:35):
baby stages, and I failed thatclass.
I recently looked at mytranscripts.
I'm like, oh shit.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
How did.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
I.
What were you learning there?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Like dewey decimal system no, like okay now, if
something was on floor three yougo to when you get into the
quote-unquote, the stacks, andyou do not always want to go
into the stacks of the shit thathappened.
The stacks is a whole anotherstory, but I've seen things,
that's after dark?
Yeah, exactly, but if you wereon floor three and you were in
(31:11):
section 100, you would have togo, but you need to go to 200 in
the day.
You'd have to go back down tothe ground floor and go back up
to the third.
The library was built insections and very non-congruent
and like, yeah, we'll put thishere, we'll put there.
But now they've got a.
(31:31):
I mean, they got a like I don'tknow, 10 years ago some huge
grant for a new library and ithas some of the old library in
it.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Their library was so crappy they had to create a
course on how to deal with thecrappy library.
That's funny.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yeah, yeah, but I failed that course.
I failed.
Okay Funny story I failedremedial math three times in a
row.
I decided I was going to do itover the summer, away from there
.
But the school made me take aplacement exam.
Okay, I took my May final examin remedial math and failed.
(32:12):
The morning of a certain day,whatever day it was, I drove
home and went where I was goingto take classes over the summer.
They made me take the placementexam.
And not only I got placed intocalculus.
After failing remedial maththree times, I got placed in the
calculus.
My confidence level was shot.
(32:33):
So I took pre-calc.
I got an A in pre-calc and I'mlike what the fuck?
How do I fail remedial math?
It was a non-credit class.
It was worth three credits butdidn't count to anything as it's
remedial.
It didn't go to your graduationrequirements and so it was just
a thorn in my side forever,that one class.
(32:56):
And yeah, I failed a lot ofclasses and for two years I led
my fraternity in gpa.
So that's hilarious I can pay alot of classes and lead my
fraternity in gpa, but anyways,that's a whole, whole, nother
story.
But anyways, yeah, your yourgpa.
This one I found interesting.
(33:18):
The next one, the hobby,excluding hobbies and interests.
I that made me.
This one actually made me thinkwhen I saw that.
So what are your opinions onhobbies and interests?
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Okay, I have an anecdote with a point.
So, when I was working in talentacquisition, there was an
applicant who was going for amarketing role.
Now, granted, it's a marketingrole, it was so appropriate for
her to do what I'm about todescribe.
(33:51):
But thinking back, I'm like Istill remember this person's
resume.
I remember their name, Iremember.
Every time I'm like likethere's something to it.
So this individual completelybranded her resume, like she
treated it as if it was apersonal brand, through, true
(34:13):
and through and through.
She branded it.
She made a logo because she hada pug and she loved her pug.
The.
The her logo involved the pug.
So she had, like her, everythingon her resume as you usually
would.
And then she had like littlethick ticks on the side of like
(34:36):
hobbies and stuff like that andeverything was color-coded.
And her business card that shewas to leave afterward she made
into, like she took those candydog bones and she put them in a
candy wrapper and then she tookthe card.
She had it specially printed sothat when she folded it in half
(34:58):
and stapled it and actuallypackaged it, it looked like it
was the actual size of abusiness card but it looked like
a packaged candy that you wouldbuy in a store.
So to this day I'm like Iremember Julia, I remember her
pugs, I remember her otherhobbies that she listed
(35:19):
Brilliant.
And so when I read this I waslike, yeah, like it's that
humanizing piece that I think issuper important.
I don't hate it.
I think if you have room onyour resume because you know
that's high real estate, go forit.
I don't think it could hurt youLike, yeah, run marathons, put
it on there, like whatever.
(35:40):
I think it's smart.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
See, I have mixed feelings and you sold me much
more towards the included, but Ithink people have to be a
little careful about what theyput on you know number one in
OnlyFans, or on the resume orwhatever.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
I'm a top earner in my MLM.
Like don't do that in there.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, but you need to use some discretion.
But I will say, since I'm notreally actively involved in
recruiting but I do all theonboarding for all the new hires
, I spend a day with themessentially, and the Friday
before they start I go throughand I read their resumes top to
bottom.
If they had a cover letter,once again I didn't recruit them
(36:24):
through and I read theirresumes top to bottom.
I look at every.
You know, if they had a coverletter, once again I didn't
recruit them.
But I read their cover letter,I try and learn about them.
And you know there was a guy whowon some competitions for a
sourdough Nice and we turnedbreaks, we talked about that and
it did like I said, it didhumanize this person I hadn't
(36:45):
met before.
You know it's Friday evening,before I leave, that's before an
orientation, before someonestarts on Monday.
That's why I do Friday eveningor afternoon I'm scanning the
resumes, looking, seeing, I'mlooking at interview notes, if
there are any that were taken,and just to see what the
person's about.
And yeah, those type of thingsdo stand out.
(37:06):
So I'm not going to hate it.
But if you don't make it fit,then that's another thing.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
I will say the one thing I did learn from Julia's
resume wherever you are Julia,hello.
You are julia, hello.
But I will say like I reallyput some effort into branding my
resume to the point where myresume is different, like I have
a whole color palette that goeswith it and it's green, because
(37:38):
green is like the color ofinnovation and stuff like that,
and I'm like, so I'm very.
I started to get a littlepurposeful about using a little
splash of color andintentionally using it, so it's
not like an eyesore or anything,right, but yeah, I think that
also helps you stand out alittle bit too.
(37:58):
Just, not everything's blackand white.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Put a little color in there.
I will say, though, if, in ourapplicant tracking system, when
I pull out a resume, unless Iactually download it and look at
it as the PDF that was sent,our ATS basically pulls the text
out, so I won't see any of thecolor, I won't see any of the
graphics or any things like that.
(38:22):
And why?
How often do I download andprint somebody's resume, or
download it at least to see itin the actual PDF file, versus
the, the preview that's in theATS?
I mean, the formattinggenerally holds up in the, the
ATS, but the no colors or imagesseem to to make it through
(38:44):
there.
I don't know, it's fine, but Iwould miss out on that, and I
think part of that you mentionedthat person was marketing.
I think if you're marketing,you do something like that,
you're winning right off theboard.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
You're so winning.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Yeah, there are some jobs.
You know computer well, maybecomputer programmer or something
.
I'm trying to think ofsomething that is less creative
or what have you I don't know astatistician or something like
that.
Maybe you're not going to anactuarial accountant or
something along those lines.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
I don't know, maybe they could put a secret message
in binary code or something.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, put something out there that draws your
attention to the resume.
But yeah, I thought that was agood article and for Business
Insider I'll give it a thumbs up.
As I'm very cynical aboutBusiness Insider, maybe one day
I'll start trying to throw upsome crappy articles.
See if I can get published inBusiness Insider.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Yeah, apparently, ethan Evans had some really good
points here, so good job, ethan.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Yeah, yeah, it's very rare that A like I said, if I
see Business Insider, unless I'mbeing a glutton for punishment,
I'm moving.
I'll read the headline and moveon.
But yeah, maybe I need to notbe so cynical.
But that sort of leads us toanother topic.
And you read the article.
(40:09):
I didn't.
My news aggregator sent me thisheadline from Business Insider
I've never heard of anythinglike this before.
Former Google HR chief reactsto Meta's block list.
And so I didn't read thearticle.
But I'm like, and then if youuse Google News for aggregator
or anything like that, it givesyou three other articles on the
(40:30):
same thing Medics, company lists, blocks, employees and their
whatever.
And I'm like, so I didn't readit.
You, you took the dive and youfound out a little bit, because
I'm thinking how many every ATS,yeah, or HRS, has an option to
make someone a non-rehirable,whatever you want to term it,
(40:53):
and things like that.
I'm like, if you want to callit blacklisted people, or
blocklisted as he calls it, dude, you're so not rehirable, click
and uh, or eligible for rehire,no, I've.
I've done that hundreds oftimes in my career and never
thought twice about it.
So, oh, but here's a funnystory.
(41:16):
So I worked somewhere, my, my,someone underneath me ended up
taking my position after I left.
But I, when their co-workersleft us without giving notice
and just basically they walkedoff the job and I put the HRS at
that company.
I put non-rehirable and thisperson was so nice, she calls me
(41:37):
.
I noticed you put this personand did not rehire.
What should I do?
I've talked to her and thingslike that.
I said it's your HR manager now, not me.
If you want to do it, uh, haveat it.
I, I just you know.
Uh, I said you were, you wereright there.
She walked out on us and I waslike will she walk out on you?
Maybe, maybe not, but uh, Ijust said you know, uh, it's,
(41:59):
it's your show now.
So yeah.
Yeah, I think it worked outbetter between the two of them.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
Nice.
I think you're right that whenI first read it, that was the
thing I immediately thought wasthat a lot of companies have
do-not-hires.
But as I was Looking into it,it looks like a bunch of people
were laid off in 2022 and 2023.
And some people, due to thoselayoffs, as jobs came available,
(42:31):
they were trying to reapply,and some of these people were
finding out during theirapplication process.
The recruiter would then turnaround and be like oh, I didn't
realize, you're not rehirable inthe system, which a lot of
people were confused becausethese are individuals who didn't
(42:53):
have any prior performanceissues.
They were laid off due to, like, a business decision, not due
to performance or due toanything you know bad.
So it's very interesting thatthere's this secret block list
(43:14):
of individuals who they let go.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Yeah, and now, knowing I I have heard of
companies that you know what I'mthinking of predates this story
.
It was an IT company and theywere known at the time.
You leave them, you'rebasically dead to them and
you're not getting another jobif you want to come back, that's
(43:40):
one thing, but I was saying ifthey were laid off.
I think, especially in this dayand age of hiring people,
finding people at a premium andone of the things I was really
good at at another company is Isought out when I was recruiting
, I sought out former employees.
Hey, how are you doing?
We have a position we want totalk to you about again
(44:10):
Contacting your former out ofthe blue they didn't send a
resume or anything and trying todraw them back.
If they left on good terms.
They weren't on the block list.
But you know, I just find ithard to believe and maybe you
know because it's meta and ofcourse, the Business Insider
picture shows this awful pictureof Mark Zuckerberg looking like
, I don't know, somebody justkicked his dog or something like
that and he's angry, that'sanother thing I love about
business.
(44:32):
Poor, sad billionaire.
Exactly, but I love when thepictures they use are like that.
But yeah, I think it'sshort-sighted.
But maybe Facebook, google, allthese companies maybe they have
so many people wanting to work,be in a thing company that they
get so many applications theydon't care too much.
(44:54):
They quoted Business.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
Insider, but apparently a director was
actively trying to rehire asenior engineer and the director
expressed frustration aboutthis block, this hiring block,
(45:16):
and said that it was preventingthem from rehiring multiple
people that they hoped torecruit back onto their team.
That they hoped to recruit backonto their team.
In an email viewed by BusinessInsider, the manager expressed
frustration that they couldn'tfigure out why someone they
wanted to rehire and had endedup on the block list in the
first place.
(45:36):
It seemed that they wererunning into a mechanism outside
of normal recruiting tools andthat they had not seen anyone
successfully get off this listand be able to join or be able
to interview at the companyagain.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Oh, that was what I was going to ask.
This is not carved in stone atmy current company and put
someone as do not hire and thena manager comes back to me.
I'll engage the conversationand most of the time it's not me
making the decision thatsomebody's not re-hireable,
(46:12):
anyways, it's their managerdoing it.
Me, I've done it, I've done itany number of times, but the
vast majority is the managerlike this clown's done with us
or something like that.
But if a manager come to say,hey, you know, I'd like to hire
john doe again and like, okay,well, he's, mark, do not hire
what?
And then you have theconversation you know, maybe, or
(46:35):
they in a bad time in theirlife and you know who knows.
So, yeah, I, I don't, I, I donot mind having a do not hire
list, but I also think thereneeds to be some judgment that
the person's prior manager wantsto rehire them.
Okay, they know what they'regetting into more than anybody
else.
Speaker 3 (46:59):
So yeah, that's pretty crazy, though, was that
people former employees that uhsaid that they reapplied for a
role after the layoffs, notbecause they liked meta, but
because the pay was good, andthis is the quote.
It's the worst company I'veever worked for, but they also
(47:19):
paid the best, and if I couldget in there for a couple more
years and make bank, I would doit.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Okay, then that's not getting you off the do not hire
list.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
And actually.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
I worked at it for exactly one year.
I worked at a temp agency andnot only did we have a do not
hire list, but we had what wecalled a GPR.
In that rehireable GPR, thegood company's name started with
a P.
What is the R stand for, Idon't know, but they were a
representative.
(47:55):
So if we and we would like whenI would go into the ATS like we
have a position, I'd look andsee.
Oh, I'd first go to our GPRs,because a lot of the people that
I would mark as GPRs werepeople who only wanted to do
temp work and they only want todo like, hey, I'll do two weeks
(48:16):
here, and then you know I don'twant to work for three months
again.
And I would just call them, hey, I've got this thing.
And they'd tell me, no, I'mlike OK, fine, but I knew that
when I did put them somewhere,they would go in and kick ass
and do well and things like that.
So there is a flip side to thedo not hire list as well that
I've actually personallyexperienced.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
I'm probably on Starbucks.
Do not rehire.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
Oh, got to hear the story behind that one.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
I think I told this story before.
That was like the only time inmy life where I walked off a job
because the manager pissed meoff so much.
But yeah, like it was.
I was a shift supervisor and shehad asked me to work on a night
that I requested off because Ihad an exam that this was
college.
I had an exam the next day.
And she was like too bad, sosad.
(49:07):
And I was like, okay, I guessI'll do it.
But then I found someone tocover my shift and while I'm at
home like studying, I get aphone call from this manager out
at a bar, like a few shots inbeing like you need to get back
to the store because so and sohe said he would cover your
shifts but he has no authorityto do so.
(49:27):
And I'm like, excuse me, andshe's like I don't know, she's
like if you don't get back there, he's gonna get fired and
that'll be on you.
And I was like so I went backto the store because I actually
like, like the guy, he was agood like, he was a friend, and
so, yeah, the next day I came inand I was like, fuck you.
(49:48):
I didn't say that I basicallythrew the keys on the counter,
I'm like I'm quitting, and she'slike when.
I'm like today, and she waslike you have to get your shifts
covered.
And I remember just looking ather and being like you're the
manager, so I guess you're goingto have to manage that.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
And I, like you, know Starbucks has such a bad
reputation and I know someonewho loved their time working.
I loved my time working there.
Speaker 3 (50:12):
I did like to this day, loved it.
I, I still, you know, drink,drink the, drink the coffee,
drink the Kool-Aid.
But but, oh, I could go down arabbit hole right now and be so
excited that they're bringingback third place and that
they're doing for here, coffeesagain.
It's, it's a brilliant move.
Great, the CEO is, I think, ismoving in a good direction.
(50:33):
But, yeah, that manager wasjust a nightmare and she she was
, it was clicky and she had herbest friends working there and
she was very immature, like Idon't know how she got promoted
into that role, um, but yeah,like she was just, uh, an
asshole.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
So yeah, well, one thing I was amazed at when my
daughter was in college.
She worked retail and the theyhad an app and if you wanted to
give up a ship, pick up or giveup, they had an app.
You.
And if you wanted to give up ashift, pick up or give up, they
had an app.
You could go in and put youryou're still responsible until
someone else covered it.
But when someone else checkedthat box I'm taking this shift
(51:15):
then you were off the hook and Iloved it.
I love that idea and my daughterloved it as, hey, I don't have
anything going on.
She would just log in and say,oh, I can work tomorrow, I can
work later this afternoon, andother people didn't mind.
Now she got talked to onceabout her overtime and I'm like
(51:37):
I told her you know, okay, butif you're accepted, their system
has some rules.
It didn't allow oh, you havetoo many hours, you're not going
to, we're not going to allowyou to do this.
But that's not her fault, butsomeone you know your, your
cashier, shouldn't be worriedabout how many hours a week
they're working if they could doit.
So I just found that app.
(51:57):
I loved that technology, I lovethe thought behind it and I was
like that's it, man.
I wish I had that when I was ateenager, because I would have
been the guy who's picking upshifts if I could.
Hey, it's Wednesday night, I'mnot doing jack, so maybe I'll
just make a couple bucks tonight.
Speaker 3 (52:13):
Yeah, I will say I did skim over the part.
I don't know why.
I'm like this is an HR audience.
The point why, he quote unquote.
The point why he quote unquotecouldn't work was because he was
going into overtime and that'swhy and she had originally given
the okay of switching a shift,because we're like I'm switching
(52:37):
shifts with so-and-so or notswitching, but he's picking up
my shift and she's like, cool,cool.
But I think she had realizedwhile she was out drinking that
that him working was going toput him into overtime and that
was probably a shitty situationfor her as a store manager.
So for her then to have turnedit around and been like he's
(52:59):
gonna get fired, so you betterget back there, and if you don't
, then his firing is going to beon you is like no, you are
going to get your hand slappedby the district manager and this
is the bullshit.
You did so anyway, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
I can't imagine the manager saying somebody else's
termination is going to be onanother employee his blood is on
your hands.
Speaker 3 (53:23):
Anyway looking back on that, I'm like, oh no, you're
just saving your ass.
And I really, in hindsight,like no, he wasn't going to get
fired.
I wasn't going to get fired.
I should have just told her Iwas unavailable and hung up my
phone.
But, you don't know this stuff.
If you're like a collegestudent working an hourly,
hourly, part-time role andyou've never been exposed to,
(53:46):
like you know, the HRE, labor-yside of work, like you don't
know your rights, you don't knowhow things work, so you just
take what your manager says atface value, no matter how wrong
they are.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
Yeah, that's absolutely.
That's absolutely true.
And that's why you get some ofthese companies that do,
especially, unfortunately, whenyou're dealing with high school,
college level kids who don'tknow any better and they don't
know how to stand up forthemselves and say no when they
should.
And you get the a-holes whotake advantage of them multiple
(54:21):
ways, and it's just no yeah ofthem in multiple ways and it's
just no yeah, that's yeah.
Thankfully for our little babewhen she gets to be that age and
gets a part-time job she'llhave two HR parents to let her
know what her rights are and shecan stand up for herself.
Yeah, yeah, my kids, my daughter, doesn't come to me too much
(54:43):
for advice on the job.
You know, I've reviewed, Ireview her resumes and I help
her and I mock interview with mykids and things like that.
But, and, and the thing is,mock interview with me, I, I'm,
I'm fucking brutally honest andthey're not getting any sugar.
Oh, you did so well, daughter.
No, not quite, but anyways.
(55:04):
So if that is you, pleaseremember to be like our Patreon
supporters and follow the shownotes links for all the places
you can support us or follow uson social media.
Not that I've posted anythingin forever, but we do want to
thank our Patreon supportersHallie, the original Jaded HR
rock star, bill and Michael.
So thank you all very much.
(55:25):
Yep, the intro and outro musicis the underscore orchestra,
devil, the devil and AndrewCulpa does the intro.
So, as always, I'm Warren, I'mCece and we're here helping you
survive HR one.
What the fuck moment at a time.
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