Matthew McConopod

On this week's episode, the Jare/ads will discuss Christopher Nolan's, Interstellar. Synchronicity. C.S. Lewis. Stanley Kubrick. Buddhism. The Jare/ads somehow write a prologue on the same day without knowing it, and much, much more. Nestle in for the show.

On behalf of the Jare/ads, thank you for listening. Follow, rate, and tell your friends. The Jare/ads will be back next time, and always remember: Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. Have a great weekend.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Tom will be all right, but you've got to make things right
with love. When I say that love isn't
something we invented, it's observable, powerful.
Too organics, possibly even to life.
You might be sharing this world.Good morning.

(00:25):
My name is Donald. Welcome to Jared.
To Jared. On this week's episode, The
Jareds will discuss Christopher Nolan's interstellar
synchronicity, CS Lewis, The Jareds somehow write a prologue
on the same day, and much, much more, nestling for the show all.

(00:48):
Right. I feel like you should get us
started. I feel like you always have a
good, you always have a good discussion question.
It's the professor in you. Novak coming back?
I mean, we're a little bit departed from the movie at this
point. It's been about, it's been about

(01:08):
3-4 days probably. But we did want to at least
touch on we did a group watchingof Interstellar starring
McConnell Pod, Matthew McConaughey and Michael Caine.
And when Michael Caine dies, he talks like this.
Seriously, where would you rate it on the scale of Christopher

(01:37):
Nolan films? Oh, that's good, good, good
question. Because he's got an impressive
corpus. He seriously does, yeah.
Also excited about his Odysseus.Yeah, the Odyssey.
Yes, got to watch that. Got to watch that.
Matt Damon, yeah. Yeah, I rate it pretty high.
Interstellar I I do rate it high.

(01:59):
It it does the whole Nolan mind trip kind of thing, right,
Right. And it made me think Memento is
Christopher Nolan, right? That was like his first, first
film really. And same thing just goes into
themes of what is memory, what is perception, what is, what is

(02:20):
communication, all these things and kind of Ben's reality a bit.
So it's within his with his theme, right?
Right. Right, What is film making too?
He's got a very like house approach to directing his
writing style to super interesting.
Yeah, Yeah, not necessarily conventional, right.

(02:40):
I mean, even Interstellar itself, he tracks down the drone
and then it's Murph who figures out the sort of code that's
takes them to the military base.And then, you know, it's almost
like a Shakespeare S premise, just like sort of unbelievable.

(03:01):
But there's like a spiritualism to it, a calling in a way.
That's cool. There is a blending of science
and spirituality. In it, yes.
Where in the beginning, Makanepod, he's, unbeknownst to
himself, he's actually the one who's knocking the books off the
shelf in order to communicate with Murph, his daughter, right?

(03:24):
But he's doing it from the 5th dimension later on.
And Murph is like, there's a ghost.
There's a ghost in my room. And it's like, no, no, it's not
a ghost. It's actually someone
communicating across time via the 5th dimension, right?
So it's taking something that would be perceived.
It's taking the supernatural andturning it into science, right?

(03:46):
And kind of blending science andsupernatural, which that's
there, that that is a thing thatis, that is true.
I mean, technology now, people in medieval times would see our
technology now and be like, that's witchcraft, right?
You know. Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I like this point, especially thinking back to the

(04:06):
one of the pods that we did. I think it was the The
Amityville Horror pod and we touch on it was one of them
maybe anointing a leader. Nonetheless, we always like
bringing up ghosts and like the spectral realm, right?
We are in JDJ is into the spectral.
We're into the spectral a littlebit, but we were one time, one

(04:28):
discussion we had was we broke down the loss of the ghost story
in the technological contemporary world.
And what were ghost stories to begin with?
While to protect the village andsort of connect with each other,
you know, it makes us human, reminds you to be human and to

(04:48):
stay safe and be in your communal space, right?
It actually warns against the lone, lone wolf sort of thing,
you know? But now with the industrial age
buildings, all the stuff, technology, understanding, story
structure, all that stuff, we had really lost our connection
with the mythology of the ghost,right.

(05:13):
Boom, circle into interstellar. We got now the ghost who, who's
the only one who believes in it,Murph, Right, Right.
And what is the connection to her in the ghost that spans
dimensions? Yeah.
Love. Love.
Yeah. Yeah.

(05:33):
Yeah, and then it makes me thinktoo, that the pod we did
directly before this one was theprophets of the present.
Right, right. Outlining what is a prophet and
an interstellar, Matthew Mcconaughey's character, Cooper,
he becomes the prophet, right? And he fits everything that we
were saying about the prophet. Prophet.

(05:55):
He's going beyond social convention, right?
Because that was a big part of it too, where he's saying I need
to do this, I need to do this. It's this calling.
I need to go out into space. And everyone else is like, no,
you're a farmer. That's what we do now, you know?
And he never let go of hope of that dream.
So he pushes beyond social convention.

(06:17):
He pushes beyond dimension itself, dimensionality.
You. Know goes beyond all of these
boundaries. And what what's what's happening
also is the calling. Remember we had like a really
cool, you have to have a really cool calling story and also
going from a place of of shortcomings to becoming the

(06:41):
prophet. And it's cool how he actually
calls himself. It's himself who's calling him
into action to go speak to Murph, to go build the, you
know, figure out the gravity equation, the gravity equation,
finish my work, Mark. You know.
Yeah. So he has that archetype, right?

(07:03):
I like that a lot. I like that a lot.
And his connect. He then, then let's look at the
piece sort of as him as a prophet or the head of the
prophets. Then Anne Hathaway's character,
the dude who stays on the ship and grows old, right?

(07:25):
These are all sort of apostles in this storyline.
Interesting. And they all have this arc where
Hathaway is sort of this like, you know, Nappo baby, maybe that
who's like the daughter of, of, of Michael Caine.
And the audience also learns a lesson, 'cause we don't trust

(07:49):
her. And then she's the one who's
right. We should have went to the
planet where Wolf was. Because love is the only thing
that spans and breaks through dimensions.
See, that's fascinating. Yeah.
Because they had the two. Oh, yeah, This connects to the
Prophet too. You're so right.
Because there was the two planets.

(08:11):
They could have gone to forget the names of them whenever it
doesn't matter. But there was the one planet
that seemed viable and like analytically made the most sense
to go to. And then Anne Hathaway's
character was like, no, but my, my intuitive sense and love is
pulling me towards this other planet.

(08:31):
And they're, they're all like, dude, just 'cause you had a
crush on the guy who, you know, was went ahead of us to that
planet. Like, that's ridiculous.
We're not going to follow that. We need to follow the mind,
right? And then what happened?
The mind LED them astray. And it was actually the heart
that would have led them to the correct planet, right?
Yes, yeah. And we were talking about that a
bit on the Prophet pod too, where the story of the Dalai

(08:53):
Lama and the the shamanic seer who was like, you need to take
this path and the Dalai Lama goes, that makes no sense, but
OK. And that's what you know.
Freed freed him or got him past the gates of the Chinese, you
know, So there is that intuitivesense of, of what to do and
where to go, even if it doesn't make sense.
So take it. It really is that leap of faith

(09:16):
to say OK like this is this seems totally insane, but it's
something inside me saying to gowith it.
Right, you know, and he even hasthat that sort of he's like
doesn't want to do it yet. What's it called?
It starts with an A. I'm trying to think of the word,

(09:38):
but like not adherence. But anyways, he, he doesn't want
it. He doesn't want to go through
with it. And every prophet has that, that
sort of skepticism. They have that moment where
they're forsaken, right. He drops the books at first to
say stay, don't let me go, Murph.

(10:07):
But then he quickly realizes that that is the wrong path.
Same with Jonah. Doesn't want to go, gets eaten
by the well, spit out, saved by the gods.
Boom. Macanopod.
Jesus McConaughey. He's, you know, stay, don't go.
And then he's like, wait a minute, talking to his robot.

(10:28):
What's the robot's name? Tars.
Tars. Yeah.
Him and Tars figure it out, You know, and Tars is sort of a
representation of a artificial intelligence apostle within this
sort of savior story. Wow, wow.
And God, that's incredible. And there's also, we've talked

(10:51):
about that biblical theme of God's plan, right?
The unfolding plan that, OK, in the story of Joseph, the dream
interpreter in Egypt, he has allthis fucked up shit happened to
him in the beginning of the story.
And he's, you know, it's terrifying.
He's thrown into a well, he's exiled and sold into slavery and

(11:12):
all this stuff. And then at the end of the
story, years later, he finds allthis success and then meets with
his brothers who were the ones who threw him in the well.
And he'd actually is able to save them from starvation.
And they're. They're all.
We're so sorry. We're so sorry.
We are ignorant. We didn't know what we're doing.
And Joseph says it. It's OK.

(11:34):
There's no there. I hold no anger because, look,
it was all part of the plan. We didn't know it at the time.
But if you didn't throw me in that well, I wouldn't now be
here saving you. Yeah.
And you see that theme happen inArrival, right?
Where it's why are the aliens, the heptapods coming down to
give that linguistic weapon to the human beings in order to

(11:58):
save the human race? Because 3000 years into the
future, the humans are going to save the heptapods, right?
You see that in Interstellar too.
It's this the kind of feedback loop of time where future meets
past and then closes out the loop, closes out the story, you
know, and again, that's an interstellar.
Turns out McConaughey goes into the future, goes into the 5th

(12:21):
dimension, travels back and is able to give his past self the
message he needed to then go on the journey to complete what he
would do. So it's it creates this
strangely perfect kind of. Loop right.
Right, where it was all part of the plan, even though like stay,

(12:43):
stay, and then you resist the plan, right?
But that just becomes part of the plan.
Right, the mysterious ways. Yeah, yeah, yes, you resist the
plan, but that too is part of the.
Right, right. Wild.
So this is making me think of a triptych conversation now.
Arrival, the King Lear pod and now interstellar right?

(13:08):
OK is dying for the truth worth it?
Is going to Sodom and Gomorrah worth it to to take the risk and
you know, going to Egypt if you're Moses or whatever is
having the baby in Arrival the daughter knowing her fate, Is it
worth it still hooking up with Jeremy Renner and and going on

(13:31):
with it Interstellar? Is it worth giving up your life
with Murph right to save the human race?
Yeah, because he chooses. Into the right.
He misses his daughter's entire life.
He doesn't care about his son. He's not worried about that.
He. Hates.
He does not like his son. Right, right.
Timothy Chalamet. Timothy, a 14 year old Timothy

(13:54):
Chalamet, he's like, don't care about you at all.
Right, right. And there's no final scene with
him and Casey Affleck, so. Funny.
So, Timothy Chalamet. Yeah, you know.
He that character, just even thewriters were just like, don't
care about this character. Like no love for Todd?
Like no one likes him. No one likes Tom's piece.
No one likes him. And he's such a nice guy, happy.

(14:18):
I know. He's just like loves his dad to
the bitter I know, even though his dad's like, hey, you got
this, You know, you can have my truck.
Well, he was representative of the norm, you know, of the, I
don't know, just sort of social convention, right.
I'm going to stay at home and work on this farm in this in

(14:39):
this collapsing society, becausethat's just what we do.
And I'm not going to question it.
I'm not going to rock the boat. And then even scoffed at his
father for his for his kind of dreamer quality and Murph, where
they're both dreamers. They always had their head in
the stars. And then these guys who are the
farmers had their feet on the ground and they were like,

(14:59):
what's wrong with you? Right, John Lithgow.
Yeah, yeah. So.
So what was the question? Is it, is it worth it?
Should should McConaughey have stayed with because he could
have just lived a much more comfortable life?
Because it wasn't until Murph's kids would anything bad, really,
really, you know, devastating when it happens.

(15:19):
Yeah, where he he could have just hung out on the porch
having beers with his father-in-law, his seat, raising
his kids, feeling unfulfilled ultimately.
Sure, getting the black lung. Getting the black lung.
Feeling unfulfilled? So now we're getting back to
Lear because we were saying, well, you can't live a normal
life if you don't essentially die for your truth because

(15:43):
you're always have that PTSD inside of you that you did
something that you could have been doing.
More yearning, right? Totally total.
Yeah, yeah. So I don't know.
He did what he had to do. And it's like, but again,
there's that question of like the truth and the plan and the
mystery of the plan where even resisting the plan is actually

(16:06):
part of the plan. Right, right.
Right. So even one, could he have, you
know, chosen? Yeah, I guess he could have.
Let's assume there's free will and he could have, but would
that have then become part of the plan somehow?
You know, perhaps. And there is sacrifice.

(16:28):
It does speak to sacrifice. I mean, people who are hugely
accomplished, there is a level of sacrifice.
You know, they're spending ridiculous amounts of time on
whatever project it is and sacrificing time with loved ones
or whatever else in order to to progress whatever their mission

(16:48):
is, whatever that project is. So I don't know.
It it just it's just up to the individual.
And it's like, if if he didn't do it, would someone else have?
Maybe, maybe not. Ultimately within that universe,
was it worth it? Yeah, it was because the human
race literally would not have. Like, that was the stakes.

(17:08):
The human race would have gone extinct.
Sure. If Matthew McConaughey didn't
choose to leave his daughter forher entire lifetime and go into
the 5th dimension. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't know what I would do, honestly.
It would, yeah. It'd be a hard choice.
Well. That movie has a You have more
of a a connection to that movie.Because sure.

(17:30):
Sure. The only movie to ever make me
weep. Yeah.
That's why. Both times I saw yeah yeah
interstellar yeah the the motionthat's driven through the
narrative of the of the father daughter right is master and
the. Daughter's 10 years old, which
is Dalton's age exactly, single father.

(17:51):
So it definitely like maps onto your life.
There we go. Let me.
Go. Come on, Tars.
Yeah, me and Dolly actually talked about this, but.
Just in case. It never happened.
I told her I'd never go to the 4th dimension without you and.

(18:12):
Then would she like Dad? Or would she, too?
I would accept. She was like, we can, we can go,
she said. And she's kind of like Murphs.
Oh my God, like, why didn't you take me with you, Right?
You know, you left me here. Murph could.
Have. Devastated.
Why couldn't an immerse? Gone.
Here's why, Murph. Had to be there.
Murph had to be on Earth becausethen they.
Process exactly. Later in her life, she would.

(18:35):
But what I do like is the endingwhen Murph is like, I have my
kids for me now and like. When she's an old woman, When.
She's an old woman and and celebrated and honestly,
Dalton's a genius, so she would save the world for sure,
probably. And like, one of the space casts
would be written after her, you know?
Yeah. But it's a tough choice because

(18:56):
in the show The Last of Us spoiler alert Season 1, there's
a father like daughter sort of dynamic, although it's not his
daughter, but she's like his daughter and comes to find out
she has the she's immune to the zombies.

(19:18):
Cool. And this in this world, right?
And and he's taking her to this,the Fireflies, who are like the
low techs, yeah, who are gonna get her blood and, like, figure
out a cure for everyone. OK.
But he comes to find out that they have to break her skull
open to get like some shit essentially.
Kills the worst when that happened.
Right, essentially kill her to get the cure, right?

(19:42):
So he goes into the hospital, hekills them, all of them, and
saves her. To save her.
But then she resented him. From there on the end in the
next season, you know, so I don't know if I would be like,
you know, more Pedro Pascual or do the Matthew McConaughey move.
You know, it's a tough choice. It's a really tough choice.

(20:03):
Yeah, it's a tough choice. It's a tough choice.
Yeah, it's a tough choice. I think it's a choice we make
every day. You know I got one for you here.
Yeah, sure. Back to the spirituality, I'm
thinking in the movie, they're always talk about they, they

(20:24):
came and they helped us, this sort of externalized larger
power. Right, right.
And we don't know who they are, this and that, right?
Well, what happens at the end? McConaughey towels, Tars.
It's not they, it's we made it in the future.
We are they. We are they.

(20:46):
Yeah. So you have that cool little
back to the Buddha. Totally.
Where, where all the Buddha, Youknow, we're all, we all have
this power to sort of, you know,build our own future.
Right, right. Yeah.
Yeah, interesting. That makes me think of the the

(21:08):
synchronicity. Oh.
J to J synchronicity. Right.
Right. Can we go into this a bit?
Because look like, all right, sowe watched Interstellar in that
movies. It's there's a lot of
synchronicities and and what arethese random connections that
are happening in the way that the mysterious plan fits

(21:30):
together and all of that. Right, right.
So then a couple days after I'm riding my bike, I stop over here
and we're chatting just like, hey, what you been up to?
And and I said I was like, yeah,I was writing the prologue for
the, for the Zen book, you know,the working night.
And you were like, wait, you were writing a prologue when,
you know, and I was like, oh, yesterday, just like last night,

(21:52):
just working on a prologue. And you were like, I was working
on a prologue last night, you know, for dreams of Jergo.
So fucking weird. Dude, so weird.
Literally went to bed happy about how good this.
Me too. Prologue came here.
I was like, really satisfied with my prologue.
So we were both lying. About just like never wrote a

(22:12):
prologue ever. No, never wrote a prologue the
word. Prologue has never been even
used in our conversations and discussion with one another.
Yes, yes. I've never written one.
You've never written one. I've.
Never been like about that. Prologue was really good.
We've never talked about prologues, just prologue was
just not a thing. And then all of a sudden it
turns out the same day, the sametime of day.

(22:34):
Right, 2025. We're both both working on, we
prologue separate prologues, feeling good about those
prologues and then going to sleep being like, man, that was
a good prologue and. I woke up and was like, man,
tell Jared about that prologue. We got to send him that so.
Weird. Like what?

(22:55):
What is happening? What is that?
Yeah, it just doesn't even make sense.
Makes sense here. That makes no sense.
Any synchronicity I never. It makes no sense I.
Get chills even thinking about. It's so creepy, so weird now.
Yeah. And what is that sort of 4th
dimensional thing? I think if we could channel, if
we could channel, we could be like, you know, fortune tellers

(23:18):
essentially. Always from what I've heard just
from random ass people take it or leave it that it's really
auspicious that it's a it's a positive thing.
Like like Carl Jung, people intothat sort of stuff would be
like, yeah, synchronicity. I mean, it's like a wink, wink
and a nod from the universe. Just like, hey, you're cool.
Keep, keep going on the path you're on.

(23:39):
Like, like it's, you know, good job.
Keep going, you know. Oh, I went to this Tibetan
Buddhist ceremony thing in here in Santa Fe.
My, my roommate Zach, he's into,into Tibetan Buddhism and
invited me along and we go and the Tibetan Buddhists are way
more, I guess into that sort of,I don't know, trippier side of

(24:04):
spirituality, right? They're not just like like the
Zen guys are like just meditation, just meditation.
And then the Tibetans are like really into like dreams and all
that kind of stuff, right. So, so we get there and it's
this three day ceremony thing. We only go for the last little
bit of it. And then the the guy leading it,

(24:25):
the Rinpoche, the teacher was like, he was like, yeah, it
happens to be my birthday today.And this like this is totally
unusual that like my birthday would fall on the day of the
ceremony. He's like, it's really cool.
It feels good. It's like auspicious, you know,
he's just like, that's a cool little synchronicity for me.
OK, interesting. And he's like a Tibetan guy,
deeds from Tibet, you know, And then I'm flipping through this

(24:47):
little handbook, their their champ book, prayer book,
whatever it is. And the first page I open to
this is written by this guy, this monk from thousand years
ago who has a dream. And then in the dream, a
priestess comes up to him and says, remember this prayer and

(25:09):
says the prayer to him, right? And then he writes down the
prayer. And now it's this chant, you
know? And the guy says that he's 33
when that happens and that he was in the practice of writing
down his dreams and all of that.And dreams are really important
to me. And typically writing down my

(25:29):
dreams and all of that. I'm 33 years old, and it's the
first page I open up to. So it's just kind of like, oh,
that's cool. You know, just like, whatever,
For whatever it's worth, it was just kind of like, oh, that's
neat, you know, And then actually it was a dream that
brought me to that Tibetan center.
I had a dream once where I was chanting within a room full of

(25:50):
Tibetan Buddhists. Got curious about that dream,
told my roommate about it, and he was like, oh, that's sick.
Do you want to come to the Tibetan Buddhist Center with me
and check it out? And I go, yeah, sure, why not?
And then the first page I open up to is about a 33 year old man
having this dream that brought him to, you know, the practice
or whatever. And I was like, what the hell is

(26:12):
going on? You know?
And then I told my roommate and he's a bit more versed and he's,
he's actually doing a PhD in like Eastern philosophy in
Tibetan philosophy and stuff. Yeah.
And he was like, he was like, yeah, that's all like within
their philosophy. That's all good news.
You know, it's all like, hey, that's cool.
It means that there's some kind of selfie sort of connection

(26:32):
going on. OK, OK.
And I was like, oh, all right. That's.
And he told me that the Tibetan word for it, but I forgot.
But it's essentially synchronicity, right?
I like that a lot actually. You know, it's interesting that
there's I like the thought that it's positive and if you apply
it to interstellar, same thing the love, the connection, the

(26:55):
synchronicities, it all leads topositivity to the new world,
right? Yeah, the continuation of the
species essentially. And hopefully, you know that's
the way it is with us to the prologues.
Boom. We're getting good luck now.
You know, whatever kind of prolong our the.

(27:15):
Prologue. What I what I like too is to
think about that, though, in terms of just some other
narrative stories, a lot of like, I know Chinese mythology,
etcetera, where not just love can expand and connect

(27:35):
throughout ages, right, But revenge and like, hatred, right?
Yeah. And absolutely.
Yeah. The like this vengeance thing
that can just pull through generations, through ages, keep
someone alive, you know? Oh yeah.
All these crazy things and. It's another force.
Yeah, thinking about that 4th dimensional force is like,

(27:58):
that's kind of scary to think. It is, it is, And that is.
Oh my God. OK, there's two ways to I'm
gonna go this way. OK, so CS Lewis has a short
novel called The Great Divorce, right?
The Great Divorce. And that title is a reference to

(28:20):
William Blake's The Marriage of Heaven and Hell, which is its
own totally fucking mystical, wild text.
And then CS Lewis writes The Great Divorce where he's kind of
playing with some of those ideas.
And in it, all of these characters die and then their
spirits get on a bus and the busdrives them up to, you know, the

(28:41):
purgatory realm, right? And then all these angels who
were people that they knew, who died before them are waiting for
them to be like, hey, I'm going to we're going to walk up to the
Kingdom of Heaven together. It's a tough walk, but you'll be
really happy when you got there.You know, it takes a while
though, right? But it's interesting because the

(29:02):
angels that got sent are always problematic people for the new
arrivals. It's never, oh, that's my wife I
was deeply in love with. And then she brings me up, You
know, it's, it's always like, oh, that was the woman or man
who cheated on me. That was the boss who fired me

(29:23):
without justification. You know, it's whatever it was.
Yeah. Someone that there's always some
kind of messy karma with who's there.
And then these angels are like, look, I know that on the Earth
realm, we had our ship, but trust me that like, in this
context, that stuff is just gone.
And the first step you need to take on this journey is letting
go of that and walking with me. And I swear, I'm on your side.

(29:45):
I want you to be happy. I want you to let go of that
pain, right? But then all these characters
are like, I can't let go of that.
You did this, you did that. I can't let go.
Are you kidding me? I can't let go of it.
And then it's their own desire for vengeance, you know, their
own, their own frustration and and all of that that actually

(30:06):
won't that keeps them from walking towards, you know, that
that Kingdom of heaven metaphorically just healing,
whatever it is. So that's a really hard step is
to let go of that, that force ofvengeance and hatred and anger.
That's a strong, strong, strong force.
And I've seen it, seen it in myself where it's like sometimes

(30:28):
I get upset and get angry and it's like so hard to like
you're, I'm just hurting myself with this right now.
It's like, like there's a sayingabout resent being resent.
Holding on to resentment is swallowing poison yourself in
order to hurt the other person, you know, makes no sense.

(30:50):
And then to let go of that is extremely difficult.
Right, right, right. Yeah.
And that's the stuff of stories,the stuff of ages.
Vengeance over centuries, Sure. Between nations, right.
You know people, Yeah. Warriors, what have you.
Yeah, wild. But I like that too.
And of course, that goes back to, I'm sure Buddhist teachings,

(31:13):
a lot of religious teaching. Jesus, you know, forgive.
My neighbor, you know. Even, Yeah, yeah, even seeing
our gods forgive, right. That's sort of a, a big, big
sort of thing as well there, youknow?
Yeah, I like that CS Lewis story.

(31:33):
That's pretty wild. Dude's such a good writer.
It's so cool. My favorite?
I don't know. How I'd feel if like my worst
enemies were like. Oh my God, dude.
Yeah, yeah. Just like they're like.
These beautiful light. Creatures.
Yeah, yeah, these beautiful. Light creatures, yeah.
Who are like, hey, come on, let's go.
And you're like, you fuck right,You know, no way, dude.

(31:55):
Freaking freaking Tom from Interstellar shows up.
Like, yeah, I'm trying to bring you to the Kingdom of heaven.
Tom Casey Affleck, Timothy Schwab.
Be like Oh my God. Yeah, just have to forgive him
though for his stupid head, you know?
Yeah. So it's tough, dude.
It's tough. Yeah.

(32:17):
I don't know. What do you think?
Yeah, I like that a lot. I mean, it's, it's interesting,
I think what what ultimately is that the, our actions, the
things that we do say, fill inside, even think about have

(32:37):
larger repercussions along our lifetime than we could ever
really imagine. Yeah.
Because I think a lot of these synchronicities, stuff like
that, it's really revolves around your own karma sort of
say, and your own, you know, train of thought, your own train

(33:00):
stream of consciousness. And back to the river episode,
Is your stream clean? Is your, is it flowing?
Is it? Are there dams that need to be
removed? Man, I got some dance I got to
remove. We all do though.
We all do. You know, and that's the great
thing about the profits, too. Matthew McConaughey is, is we

(33:26):
all have things to work on to do, right?
He wasn't a perfect character byany means, right?
You know? Yeah.
But he ended up going and you know.
And I like, yeah, I like that they are we.
It was us the whole time. It's all of us.
And I think that's the cool thing that maybe gets a little
bit lost in Interstellar becauseit does do the chosen one kind

(33:50):
of narrative, you know, makanapods the chosen one or
Murph or whatever, but it's the chosen, like all of us are the
chosen 1 and that, and I think that's the true prophet who's
who sees the prophet and everyone else.
And if anything is like, no, I'mnot the prophet.
Like like Saint Francis has thatprayer.

(34:11):
You know, I pray that I may fuckwas it?
I pray that I may understand rather than seek to be
understood. You know, it's like putting the
focus elsewhere. It's like it's not about me.
It's not hey, look at me, I'm the prophet.
It's like, no, no, it's about what can I give, what can I do
for others. So much easier said than done,

(34:32):
you know. And and then because it's
everyone that's sort of the story of like the apostles too,
without Judas, without, you know, Paul, this stuff, the
story wouldn't have wouldn't have a lion for the Jesus
figure. You know, they would have all
imploded. So it's takes, you know, the
collective to get progress done or, or to find a sense of peace

(34:58):
and safety. Same with Anne Hathaway and all
them. If she wasn't there, if she
didn't fall in love with that dude, you know my.
Right, right. That was Anne Hathaway's role.
If Anne Hathaway didn't have a crush on freaking Doctor
whatever, who flies to that other planet?
They would have never may eventually made their way to
that planet, right? So, so even down to the very

(35:21):
minutia, you know it's all part of it.
It's all part of the plan, right?
Even this dumb low crush on Doctor Wolfram or whatever his
name was. Right, right.
Sidebar. Really did like the Ben Affleck
character, Casey. I mean, Matt Damon, Matt.
Damon's character. He was the shadow.
Character. Yeah, he was the shadow, yeah,

(35:43):
but he was also inside of all ofus, too, because fear and grief
is also a feeling that stretchesacross time and space.
Yeah, he pressed the button and lie down to sleep, thinking he'd
never get woken up again. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But the guy's a madman. Yeah.

(36:05):
I really do love those those those scenes and it he has a
really good like again, sort of back to like this Shakespearean
villain character where, you know, there is deep reasoning
there behind his wanting to get the buck out and go to that
other planet, right? But also he's dooming

(36:30):
essentially the whole entire mission.
Or at least you know he's He almost does.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Do you see your daughter's eyes?I'm sorry I can't look at you.
I'm sorry. I thought I could.
Yeah, man. Yeah, just the amount of shame.

(36:51):
And yeah, that's a good character.
Also a really good sci-fi, like just amazing that a planet like
one hour equals 7 years and you feel the gravity of it
definitely like the whole entiretime they're on there.
And then stupid Anne Hathaway like going back for that thing

(37:13):
and like, you know, they end it.Oh Murph, you're just thinking
Murph's getting so old now he's missing out here.
And then he gets on the ship andhe turns the the movie on the
like famous mean reel where he'slike crying in front of the just
the show. They grow old.
Oh, man, that's just crazy. And then no, no Murph, until the

(37:34):
end when she's like, hey, dad, you know.
Oh, man. Seeing as this level of trust in
that mysterious plan, not to sound too Christian or whatever
about it, but like, OK. Because in that moment, Cooper,
Matthew McConaughey, they're on the water planet and Anne
Hathaway is freaking spending way too much time, you know,

(37:58):
doing whatever she was doing, like trying to take samples or
something. And, and the whole thing is that
time on Earth is moving way faster than the time where
they're at. And so, yeah, Murph, he's
missing out on his child's entire life minute by minute.
But each minute, seven years on Earth.
So you're like, oh, fuck. Oh, no.
There's so much drama. And in that moment,

(38:20):
Mcconaughey's character is like freaking out, dude.
The level of fear, grief, anxiety, like that is totally
dysregulated. Oh my God, freaking out.
And then there's no part of him.Like if you went up to him in
that moment and we're like, hey,it's all part of a plan, right?

(38:40):
I promise you this doesn't make sense.
But I promise you in, you know, whatever amount of time this is
going to make all the sense and there's going to be all this
resolution enclosure and all of that, be like, you're no,
you're, you're insane. I'm missing my daughter's life.
So like us too, in those momentsof just like freaking out what

(39:04):
is happening, This hurts so bad.It hurts so, so bad.
But then finding maybe just likethe littlest crumb of trust of
like, maybe this is going somewhere.
Right, right, right. Hopefully, yeah, I don't know,
doesn't feel like it often, but.Right, right, cuz what's

(39:25):
happening is you're turn and it's like you're going from
being able to meditate on a situation to like a visceral
Yeah, very much in it just takesover surviving.
Exactly. Fear, anxiety, you know, and
it's hard to regulate decision making.
Yeah, when that's happening. And you made that great point in

(39:46):
the King King Leopard that when you are in the abyss freaking
screaming and your buddy's eyes have just gotten ripped out and
the fool is fucking riding on your shoulders through the
storm, that's when you're actually closest to some sort of
awakening or realization. Because that's when you are

(40:10):
getting so deeply triggered for a reason.
You know, all of your defense mechanisms are up because
whatever life isn't going the way you want it to go.
But then that's the moment whereyou can say, oh wait, maybe I'm
not my defense mechanisms. Right.
Maybe I actually don't even needthese defense mechanisms.
That's not who I am. And then it drops and you go,

(40:32):
fuck, I'm OK, right? You know, So when, like you
said, in that moment of of abyss, that's when you're
actually closest to realization.Same thing with the McConaughey
thing. You're freaking out the most.
That's actually when you're mostin line with the.
And where did he have to go? Beyond the beyond the horizon,

(40:53):
right beyond the horizon of the black hole, where that's the
only thing that could complete the equation to save.
To go beyond. And humanity to go beyond, to go
a place that where you're afraidto go, that you can't see the
other side. But the answers are there.
Are you brave enough to take your ship?
You and tars, you know. So difficult, dude.

(41:17):
And then and the Buddhism, it's got so much references to this
kind of stuff. They have the paramitas which
are teachings and and the paramita that the actual
translation means the other shore get to the other side.
You know a. Little nice, yeah.
The other side of yourself ultimately, or in Greek
mythology. The Ferrymen.

(41:37):
The ferrymen, yeah. Taking you to the.
Other side across, yeah. What's the river called The the
river sticks the river. Sticks and the river sticks is
you. It's getting you to the other
side of yourself. Right, right.
You know, beyond, beyond, beyondthrough the black hole, right?
And that's what I like about sci-fi too, is it takes all

(41:58):
these ancient mythological, spiritual themes and then puts
this hyper modern spin on it, right?
You know, repackages it for the 21st century and beyond, right?
Go beyond the horizon. Go into the black hole.
Where? Which I also like the point you,
which is reminding me of the point you brought up when we're
watching the movie is how is technology?

(42:20):
How there's like an inversion oflike the farmers are actually
the regressives, not the progressives.
And it's the technology and going to the stars.
That's sort of the, you know, the low tax, the out-of-the-box
thinkers, you know, the the moreliberal way of going about

(42:43):
instead of the conservative, youknow, and what I like, Boom,
it's yet again. And then another sort of link in
the in an old episode is, is technology and the growth of it
is actually bringing us back to nature.
It's bringing us back to that which we think has been lost

(43:05):
because of technology. That's interesting.
That's interesting. And who's his only connection at
the end? Until of course, he meets Anne
Hathaway. But is is Tars like reconnects
tars and boom, he's there's his village, there's his friendship,
he's. His friendship, yeah.

(43:29):
Do it, Dars. Come on.
Dars. Also some good like Stanley
Kubrick, you know, homages and yeah, I.
Like that a lot. That was really cool.
I honestly find it to be the best Christopher Nolan movie
ever made. Nice.
For me, it's just like right on it with the script.

(43:52):
Yeah, all the actors are incredible.
There's so many good actors. And that was cool, Yeah.
Just so many big actors. And also upon second watch,
McConaughey should have won likeBest Actor for.
That incredible. Yeah, he's an.
Incredible actor. He's an amazing actor.
Yeah. I like too the the the human.

(44:13):
The human aspect never gets lost.
I mean, that's one criticism youcan make of Space Odyssey,
Kubrick is that it's it's almosttoo, too far beyond the human
that you lose. You lose some interest at
points, you know, of of Space Odyssey.
Whereas with this, they're doingall this crazy amount of science

(44:33):
and tech and these robots and and what is the human and all of
this stuff? But it always comes back to
human relationships. And that's what keeps driving
the story. This father's relationship to
his daughter, the way in which he doesn't give a shit about his
son. Tom and Hathaways love.
Yeah, it it always comes back to, OK, great, we're in this

(44:55):
hyper advanced society, but who cares if you don't have love
connection. Already.
Exactly. Yeah, beautiful.
On behalf of the Jareds, thank you for listening.
Follow rate and tell your friends the Jareds will be back
next time. And always remember, do not go

(45:18):
gentle into that good night. Rage, Rage Against the dying of
the light. Have a great weekend.