Broken to Beautiful: A Survival Story - Jennifer Malcolm with Amy Stack

When someone undergoes childhood trauma, it can often leave you scarred, angry, and bitter. But Amy Stack found a way to work through her brokenness to give back to the world and become a mother of 7 children, one of which has special needs. For someone who wasn’t medically supposed to have children, she overcame astounding odds to be a super-mom extraordinaire. 

Episode Transcript

Jennifer Malcolm (00:10):
Welcome to the Jennasis Speaks podcast The
Transformative Power of Women'sStories, a platform that
empowers women storytelling, topromote collective
vulnerability, acceptance andhealing. I am your host,
Jennifer Malcolm, self madeentrepreneur, women advocate and
life balance expert. Welcomeback to the next episode of

Jennasis Speaks (00:31):
The Transformative Power of Women's
Stories, where every woman has astory and every story matters.
And with me today is a friendthat I've known for 30 plus
years, Amy Stack. She wasn't atstack back then. But Amy's
joining us today. And I'm justhonored. When the podcast was

(00:52):
first launched. I got a Facebookmessenger from Amy just of
encouragement of what this isabout. And all is about is
capturing women's stories tobring healing and courage and
truth and vulnerability period.
There's no other agenda besidesthe healing journey that stories
unlock. And Amy readily raisedher hand and said I'd love to be

(01:15):
a part and so honored to haveyou here today and I will short
little bio and then we'll jumpinto your story. So Amy is a
wife homeschool mom to sevenchildren, a licensed attorney in
the state of Ohio, graduatedfrom Boston Wallace, majoring in
political science and minor inEnglish composition, then

(01:37):
graduated magna cum laude fromCleveland Marshall School of
Law. She's worked in municipalprosecution as an assistant
attorney general, and privatepractice as well. She has
pressed pause on her legalcareer to raise her family and
pursue writing. Currently anexecutive director and

(01:57):
administrator at the largehomeschool cooperative in
Northeast Ohio hearts for JesusChrist, which educates teaches
and trains a 300 homeschoolstudents from three I'm sorry,
from pre K to 12th grade. Sowelcome, Amy, I'm so excited to
have you here. Again, we'veknown each other for quite a
while, and kind of been in eachother's paths for 30. Some

(02:21):
years, we weren't necessarilyclose growing up, but just in
proximity and hung up at somespaces, but wanted to welcome
you today.

Amy Stack (02:30):
Thank you, thank you.
And I do think that what you aredoing here in a space is so
powerful. I know for me, hearingsomebody about five years ago
tell their story in a publicplatform gave me courage after
20 some years of being silent,or you know, somewhat silent, to
really, I'm already gonna startcrying. But know that that gives

(02:50):
me courage to really be okaywith my story, first of all, be
okay that that's a part of mylife, and then to just to not be
afraid to share it, because thatreally gives freedom to the
person who is living in thereality. But it also just

(03:12):
encourages so many people thatcan just take even just one
little piece of your story. Sowhat you're doing is amazing and
powerful, and I'm honored to bea part of it.

Jennifer Malcolm (03:21):
Thank you, and you're hitting it on the head.
Because when I share and as Icontinue to talk through my
story through the podcasts, andit's coming out in glimpses, it
brings healing, just speakingand sharing it brings healing to
my heart. And then I know thatwhen I do that, it also breaks
shame, breaks isolation, andbrings courage to someone else

(03:46):
to you know, start breaking downthose their own walls of fear,
shame, vulnerability isolation.
And so thank you for being here.

Amy Stack (03:56):
Yeah, no problem. No problem. All right.

Jennifer Malcolm (03:58):
So you we've kind of you know, subtly put
your title is broken andbeautiful, because you are an
amazing mom, and crazy mom ofseven kids now we'll get to that
part. Yeah, but we're gonnafocus on growing up here, and
kind of what you experienced aschildhood and, you know, we all

(04:21):
have our own childhoods that weyou know, experience and wanted
you to share what was likegrowing up for for you.

Amy Stack (04:29):
Sure, yeah. So my story has many moving pieces and
parts, and we're going to focuson one I think today, but you
know, there, there were probablythree or four major streams of
trauma that I had to walkthrough as a young kid. But, you
know, when I was really young,you know, everything was normal.

(04:50):
I was the youngest of three. Ihave a sister that's nine years
older and another sister that's12 years older. Mom and Dad were
married. We lived in Slavicvillage, which is people are not
familiar with Northeast Ohio. Itis not the best neighborhood.
It's a, you know, kind of roughneighborhood and Cleveland
proper. And my dad Fun fact wason Jeopardy when I was five. And

Jennifer Malcolm (05:14):
over that, yeah, jeopardy. Yeah, that's
right.

Amy Stack (05:16):
Yeah, yeah. And we still watch it every night so
closely. He moved us from Slavicvillage to be village, which
again, if you're not familiar,is more of a fluent suburb of
Ohio. So that was early on. Ijust had, you know, I think I
don't have a lot of pictures formy childhood. But when I look
back at that, I'm very vibrant.
I'm very, I have it up. I'mdressed in rainbows. I mean, I'm

(05:39):
just like, the epitome of like,happy little girl. And things
changed pretty quickly. Afterthat, um, we went through a
couple years, my parents hadseparated, gotten back together,
one of my sisters had run away,and not my oldest sister started
dating, who would soon to be herhusband. So she was not around
that much anymore. And by thetime I was eight, my parents

(06:01):
were divorced, it was reallylong and hard. And both of my
sisters for a while one of mysisters was out of the house,
the other one was about toleave. So I went from this
happy, healthy, vibrant, hammy,you know, posing for the camera
to life changes really,drastically, really quickly. And
by the time I was nine, it wasjust me and my mom in the house.

(06:23):
And that's when a lot of thingsstarted really going south. And
there was a man who was close tothe family, who was around a
lot. And I think the first timeI can think of being
uncomfortable around him, wasprobably when I was nine. You

(06:45):
know, later on in life, I read alot about sexual abuse and what
it means. And I think when youare not familiar with it, you
might think like, sexual abuseis made or molestation or being
forcibly raped. And that's it.
And I think what people don'trealize is, a lot of times for

(07:08):
childhood victims, there's along grooming period that can be
part of your story. Andcertainly, it was part of mine.
And so when I was about nine,this man was very close to us.
And, you know, he was around alot, he was the cool guy. Um,
you know, before he may beuncomfortable, he was the cool
guy and had brought home thingsfrom work to blow up in the

(07:32):
street. And you know, I havethese memories of, you know, a
popsicle on a hot day, and justthings that weren't abnormal.
But slowly, things started tochange and shift. And the first
time I felt uncomfortable aroundhim was when I was nine, and we
were outside. And he just keptyanking out my shorts and

(07:53):
touching my legs, and it justwas very uncomfortable. And for
people who don't know whatgrooming is, it's just the the
art of making somebody who isuncomfortable, more comfortable
with touch or words. And so hespent a good amount of time.
grooming. Wow. And, um, yes, soit was probably another so I was

(08:18):
young, I was nine, maybe almost10. I have a memory about 10
years old. I remember my sisterhad just gotten married, where I
was in his home. And again, itwouldn't be very abnormal for
that to happen. I actually don'tremember this particular day why
I wasn't at home. But, you know,it was very odd. He was on his

(08:41):
boxers. He said, we're gonnawatch a movie. And he had porn
on and I didn't know at the timewhat that was. I'm just speaking
really candidly

Jennifer Malcolm (08:51):
Go for it. Oh, do not have to filter here.

Amy Stack (08:54):
I don't know if I've ever speaking this candidly
before So, but I think it'simportant. And so I it was
really uncomfortable. And Ithink when I replay this in my
head, I think I should haveasked right I mean, like, you
get up and you leave, but Ididn't feel like I could and
that was part of I think thepsychological part of what
childhood sexual abuses is.
There is a part where mentallyyou don't feel the freedom to

(09:18):
leave and it doesn't make a lotof sense until you can process
and heal right. But that's whatstarted a two year abuse
relationship between him and Iwent that went from very
uncomfortable moments totouching to pull out right. And
I lived in that for about twoand a half years.

Jennifer Malcolm (09:44):
I I want the audience to hear very very
specifically about the groomingpiece where shark pumping in
your in your, you know, eightnine years old knows like, Okay,
this is odd and it makes me feeluncomfortable, but the entire
goal To start making thatnormal,
and Right, right, not afraidof that feel or that touch, and

(10:04):
that's normal. And so thatgrooming process that then gives
injury for more to occur. Andthat as a child, or you're just,
you're just trying to be a kid.
You're just trying to be a kid.
And yeah, we're taught to minderparents and respect adults and,

(10:25):
and there's supposed to be safeand protect us. And that part of
our brain and psyche hasn'tformed yet to really understand
what's going on.

Amy Stack (10:41):
Sure, yeah. And I think it's important to know,
there's so many layers to this,there's, there's fear, and
there's shame. And there'sconfusion, like mass confusion,
right? I mean, there's just nogrid for this. I mean, even when
you're an adult, if you've neverhad to walk through it, there's
not a lot of grade for it. Butas a kid, when you're trying to

(11:02):
form, relationships and trust,there's just no grid. And so
it's really hard to kind ofdecipher what's you know, what
to do what to do. And I thinkpart of the process for me, once
things started, you know, like Isaid, there was probably almost
a year, if I were to go back,and really be honest, there was

(11:23):
probably about a year ofinappropriate touching any
appropriate things to say, youknow, putting his arm around me
and touching me in places heshouldn't. And I'm not even
including that necessarily inthe, you know, when we really
entered the abusive part thatwas to me part of the grooming,
it was making me it was alwaysuncomfortable. I was never
comfortable, right. But it wasdoing it so much that it

(11:45):
normalized it that became mynormal relationship with him.
And so it almost became anexpectation. And it was almost
like you turn up the fire alittle bit at a time, right. And
so once you were comfortablewith one thing, he kind of, you
know, entered a new phase andtouched more and said more, the,
the first few times that thingsreally got, you know, from the

(12:10):
time that I was in his livingroom watching that movie, or
trying to divert my eyes,honestly, when he was watching
him, where he, you know, heperjured himself during that
whole thing, and that was, Imean, I would 10 I've never seen
anything like that before. Ididn't understand what was
happening at all, like, not evenI had not had to talk, you know,

(12:33):
class, no birds and knock themoff. No. I mean, I went to the
small private school, like, wedid not talk about that, you
know, you hit you left room forthe Holy Spirit between people.
And it was just No, no, great.
And, um, and I remember himalmost, you know, there was
almost an embarrassment, I thinkon his part, and it was a lot

(12:54):
of, you know, you're such a goodgirl, you're such a good girl.
Thanks so much for just eating.
It was, it's been a hard day.
For me, this was just a way forme to be happy. Thanks for
making me happy, you always makeme so happy. And it's this,
like, almost narrative playedover and over and over again, to
where, you know, in the middleof mass confusion and shame,

(13:14):
which I don't even know if Icould identify that I felt shame
at that moment. But, um, youknow, I'm hearing I'm helping
him, right, I'm helping, youknow, and so, you walk away with
this mass confusion going, Okay,but maybe, whatever. I mean, I
don't understand what justhappened. But he's happy. I feel
like garbage. But, okay, that'sit. And it wasn't it, it was,

(13:37):
um, you know, it was kind ofthat slow burn as, Hey, come
here, I've had a hard day, youknow, come just sit by me. And
it was a lot of touching. And atfirst it was just him pleasuring
himself, probably almost for ayear. And then it got, you know,
it continues to get deeper anddeeper and deeper, and at some
point, and forgive me, I reallydon't remember when there's a

(14:01):
lot of lag, you kind ofdisconnect from your body when
you go through this. And sothere's not a lot of detail as
far as timeline for me, but atsome point, the narrative kind
of shifted to you know, that ifyou tell anybody, we're both in
trouble, you know, if you tellanybody about this, you're,
you're a bad girl. You know, ifyou tell anybody, this is your

(14:22):
shame, and I don't know what Imust have given off to where
that kind of shifted, but that'swhere, like this whole nother
layer of psychological abuse,you know, was involved because
it made me feel guilty, right.
And I didn't do anything wrong,you know, so. So it was like
this, this, I felt alreadytrapped. I felt like I couldn't

(14:45):
tell anybody. And just soeverybody's aware, I didn't have
you know, this is where I saidthere's so many moving pieces of
my story, but I didn't haveanybody to talk to during that
period of time. My mom and dadwere divorced. My dad and I have
a great relationship. Now he hasbeen my constant. But at the
time he, I was I was led tobelieve that he was not a good

(15:09):
man. And so we did not have aclose relationship for many
years. And so he was not anoption.
Both of my sisters weren't anoption for many reasons. And my
mom certainly wasn't an option.
This is not one of those things.
You want to tell yourgirlfriends at school when
they're talking about, you know,going ice skating on Friday
night, and you know how theywear their hair, you don't just

(15:32):
tell them? And so you findyourself in this place where
you're like, how do you even Whodo you talk to you? How do you
even broach the subject? Iremember trying a couple of
times with a friend of mine kindof trying to hint around, but it
was so awkward. I mean, she'sjust so like, they don't have a
grid for that either. Or, youknow,

Jennifer Malcolm (15:50):
And I think it's important that the layers
of what you're doing, you're agood girl, you're a good Yeah,
you're a good girl. So he's, youknow, he's trying to put into
positive reinforcement, fordevastating harm behavior, but
trying to groom you into. Butthis is a good thing, because
you're helping your own. And asa small child growing up, that's

(16:12):
all you want to do you want toyou know, we, you learn right
and wrong, and learn to helpother people. And he's
reaffirming that what you'redoing, and what he's
experiencing is helping. Andyeah, when you're in that for
months at a time, it sounds, youknow, potentially up to a year
of that positive reinforcement.
Yeah, through abuse of anychanges. It's where we'll know

(16:34):
if you should say anything,you're a bad girl. Yeah, you're
that silencing your voice. And,and, and not allowing that to
come forth. Again, it's thepsychological abuse. That is, is
unheard of, wow.

Amy Stack (16:52):
It's huge. And he knew, I mean, he knew me, he
knew my family, he knew what wehad gone through. So he knew I'm
a, you know, I'm a recoveredpeople pleaser, I say that I'm
still recovering. I like I liketo make people happy. I've
always been that way, you know,and he knew that and he knew
that, you know, I was going, heknew that my family was

(17:12):
decimated within the matter of acouple years, he knew that I was
vulnerable. He knew that.
Because I lived with a singlemom, there was plenty of
opportunities to come and entermy world, you know, and really
remain unnoticed. But that part.
So he knew all of that. Andthat's where the predator status
really, you know, that's whereyou just for years and years and

(17:34):
years, I felt guilty forallowing it to happen and not
calling it out. But it was manyyears later that I realized that
he was preying on me, you know,it was not it was not my fault.
It was him. But you have theselayers, too. You know, about
five years ago, your oldestsister actually invited me to
this conference that she haddone in Columbus, and she had a

(17:56):
speaker Her name was NicoleBraddock Bromley and she is a
fantastic speaker about youknow, speaking your story with
regards to sexual abuse. And sheI got her books. I like when I
hear somebody I order all oftheir books, I'm very, very
impressionable that way. And sheuncovers really deep stuff that

(18:19):
I had never really processedthrough like, and here we go. I
mean, this is like, this isvulnerable stuff, okay. Your
body is designed to respond totouch. And even when you are
being abused, there can bepleasurable responses from your
body. Do you have any idea howmany years it was for me? Not to

(18:44):
feel like my body was betrayingme every time. You know, it's so
hard to kind of navigate thosefeelings because you don't
understand them at all. There'sjust no grid at all. Um, so it
was her that really kind ofbusted open that door for me
going, that's okay, that wasn'tyour body that betrayed you.
That was the way God designedyour body to react. And somebody

(19:07):
stole that piece from you, youknow, so that was that was
actually only five years agothat you know, that started
healing for me and I've beenmarried for 17 years. So I think
about that. Yeah. So you know,this is an over the the healing
that comes from all of this isnot over I know I know of a few

(19:30):
Victor victims who werevictimized later in their either
like later teen years or adultyears. And they have different
things to walk through that Ihave never had to walk through
with regards to their healing.
But I also have spoken to a fewchildhood survivors and it's
very hard for us to understand ahealthy worldview of people
trust relationships, and justbasic biological reactions to be

(19:52):
honest with you because ourwhole our whole perspective has
shifted When we were victimizedwhen we were abused,

Jennifer Malcolm (20:02):
sure. So as this abuse is going on, and you
don't feel like there's, there'sno one in your world right
around that time to speak thisto you're learning your own
body, you're you're learningabout sex and sexuality in a way
that was never meant to happen.
How, what broke the cycle orwhat changed to pivoted through
through the abuse

Amy Stack (20:25):
Sure, so a few things. One was, substance abuse
was a big part of this too. Imean, this man was very rarely
sober. Again, at the time I, youknow, you you kind of just grow
up thinking certain things arenormal. So I didn't realize that
people didn't live like this.
But he definitely had a problemwith that. So he was taken to

(20:46):
jail a few times in and out for,you know, different alcohol
related or drug relatedoffenses. And that would always
press a pause and my story,which was fantastic, but I knew
it was never over.
Simultaneously during theseason. There were a lot of
other things that were very offand bad in my worlds. And so

(21:08):
there was actually quite a fewthings that have happened. But
my sister filed for custody ofme when I was I think she filed
when I was 12. With a lot of,you know, different allegations
going on. And it we were inabout a year and a half custody
debate, court court case overwhere I should go, what you

(21:31):
know, what's going on, I had aguardian ad litem, which is an
attorney, you know, who's givento a child to kind of see what's
best for that child. And I wasconflicted constantly about
whether to tell her about thisabuse or not. I knew the
environment I was living was notgood. But I knew that if I had
spoken, I'd be taken for my mom.
And that's a tough decision tomake, it was really tough. And

(21:56):
again, lots of different playersin my store, lots of different
moving pieces, a lot of guilt, alot of neglect a lot of things
going on. And I chose at thatmoment, when I was 12. And at
the ripe old age of 12. Verywise, in my day, I chose not to
say anything. But the evidenceabout my life was so

(22:16):
overwhelming that on January 121996, which I was 13 freshman
year of high school, I came homeone day, and I was told that I
wasn't living there anymore, thecourts had removed me. So I went
to live with my sister, Ithought that that was going to
be temporary. But a few shortmonths later, my mom stopped

(22:36):
coming for visitation. And Irealized she had moved I kind of
heard through the grapevine thatshe had moved to North Carolina.
So that was that I'd never wentback to my childhood home. I
never was able to really haveclosure there. But the actual
abuse stopped. I don't know whenhe would have gotten out of jail

(22:59):
that last time. I never, I neverhad to figure that out. So
that's a good thing. That's agood thing.

Jennifer Malcolm (23:07):
So as you're now going into teenage years and
puberty, you know, going intohow did that affect, you know,
dating, not dating. One, wantingto have a, you know, wanting to
be seen, but realizing, youknow, what you experienced as a
child was so devastating andharmful and scarring, like how

(23:30):
did that, you know transpire asyou're getting the years that
you you should be a teenager.

Amy Stack (23:38):
It literally changed everything, it changed. I was
not the vibrant, happy personanymore. I was very withdrawn. I
didn't trust anybody. Like letme just be clear, like nobody, I
did not let anybody get close tome. I started this kind of
journey through my teenage yearsof nobody, I don't need anybody.

(23:59):
They certainly don't get a pieceof me. I had kind of resolved to
just getting through and livingmy life completely on my own. I
threw myself actually early andI threw myself into achievement.
So that was how I coped. Youknow some people, I heard
statistics all through growingup were like people who are

(24:21):
sexually abused are more likelyto be promiscuous and whatnot.
And I think there's a lot ofvalidity to that. But I think
the vast majority of people kindof go and start coping in ways
that make them feel worth youknow, worthy. And I think the
more I read the more I'veresearched the more I've talked

(24:41):
through and work through this.
It's it's almost a persona likea abuse victim. Either goes that
way the premier, you know,promiscuity, rebellious way, or
they overachieve, and I wasdefinitely in the overachieve. I
don't know what is worse, to bereally honest with you.
overachieving is like a drugaddict. So I threw myself into
every activity, every anythingthat you can get a grade or an

(25:04):
award, that was me. And I wantedto do it. The motivation was not
necessarily to draw attention tome, I actually did not want any
attention drawn to me, it was toprove to myself that I still had
work. And you Yeah, I wish Icould say that. I'm totally
healed of that. But you findyourself in these cycles. And
you go, why am I doing this? Whyam I trying to achieve this? Why

(25:26):
am I trying to, you know, go init, it kind of comes back up
that, oh, yeah, you're, you'restill worthy, even if you don't
have to run, you know. And so Ifound myself during high school
years. Definitely withdrawn. Imean, I had friends, like, don't
get me wrong, I was in thepopular group. And I definitely,
my best friend was homecomingqueen. And, you know, we, we

(25:49):
went to the parties andeverything, but I didn't date.
This. The only time I kind oftried to date was because there
was rumors going around about methat I wasn't dating, and I was
like, oh my god. So I would goout with a football player or
whatever. But I was extremelyuncomfortable. I was labeled the
ice queen, you know, physically,it was like, Don't even touch

(26:11):
me, don't go near me, I don'twant anything to do with you.
And again, it was like this, Ididn't dress I dress very, like
baggy clothes, dark colors, justI had, you know, one, I didn't
want attention. I startedgetting curvy, you know, and I
started getting attention. Andthat scared me so much. And so I
tried to hide that. And I hadthe lowest self esteem probably

(26:35):
out of everybody. In my school,I had the lowest self esteem, it
didn't matter what I look likeon paper. I just walked around
thinking I was worth absolutelynothing. And part of that came
from the last maybe few monthsof my abuse, where, you know,
nobody talks about after theabuse happens, you know,
there's, we talk about abuse,almost like in a in a box, like,

(26:58):
Oh, I was sexually abused orthis happen. But your abuse is
made up of moments, seconds, andminutes. And hopefully not
hours, but sometimes hours. Andit's made up of more than just
actions. It's made up of words,and it's made up of like heavy
feelings. And so the momentsafter he was satisfied early on,
you know, you got the good, thegood words, affirmations from

(27:23):
him. later on. It was I can'tbelieve I'm doing this with you.
You're so Derby kind of words,you know, those are the, that's
what you took on? or, um, youknow, I was really, I was really
small and scrawny. And it waslike, I can't, you know, I can't
believe I'm doing this kind ofthing. You just feel like, wow,
if I'm going to even worth it tohim, you know, hey, how can I be

(27:44):
worth it to anybody else? And soI just stayed away from that I
didn't want anything to do withanybody. And that's how I live
my most of my high school year.
Got involved with church, and Idid not like anybody. either.

(28:06):
No, not fit in. I didn't, um, mywhole world right now, God,

Jennifer Malcolm (28:12):
I think part of it like, would you talk about
the achievement, it's somethingyou can control. It's something
that you know, you don't wantthe attention, but I am in
control. You wearing baggyclothes, you wearing dark
clothes you isolating youchoosing, I haven't got for a
football player to check thecheck the box, and then moving.
But it's that sense of I am incontrol of my body and who I am.

(28:36):
And even if it's a little bit ofpower, that little bit of you
know, this is this is me beingtaking back what someone stole
from me, even in my new face,I'm sure at some level was
healing and courage. Yeah. Andand you still have a long
journey to go of how thisunfolds.

Amy Stack (28:58):
Right. And I needed to do that. Right. I needed to,
I think there's a season of youknow, the actual time of abuse
was over. And the next phase ofhealing for me from my story had
to be, I needed to figure outwho I was, you know, and I'm
thankful for that opportunitythat I got to go. I have. We

(29:21):
talk a lot about in this day andage about privilege. I have an
enormous amount of privilege,even despite what I went
through. And I was in afantastic school, private high
school where I had opportunitiesleft and right to go figure out
who I was and what I was goodat. I do not discount that. You
know, I think that was veryhuge. I mean, that was my saving
grace. I can't imagine walkingthrough a walk through and not

(29:44):
having what I had. I don't thinkI recognized that at the time,
you know, but definitely lookingback. I'm really thankful for
that. Right for sure.

Jennifer Malcolm (29:53):
So as your now you know, you said you started
getting involved in the church.
So how did that next season No.
Did you press further inacademics? Did you confront your
abuser? How did that next seasonof life look for you? You know,
coming out of high school?

Amy Stack (30:10):
Sure. No, I avoided all everything I had to do with
me. Even, you know, all throughhigh school people knew that I
did not live with my parents,but nobody knew why, I didn't
say a word to anybody. My bestfriends didn't know why. Very,
very, very few like I can kindof want to have had an inkling
of what had happened. And so Iwas really okay with that.

(30:32):
Because my choice was throwmyself in academics and
achievement. I wanted to go tolaw school. I wanted to be the
woman who was my guardian Litem,to be quite honest, she saw
through my brokenness and didthe right thing and advocated
for me, she had the courage Ididn't have when I was 12, to
get me out of a situation that Icouldn't get myself out of. And

(30:56):
I felt like I had, I owedsomething to the world to do the
same for somebody. And so thatwas kind of what I wanted to do.
I wanted to just go and pursue,you know, becoming a lawyer and
helping people I really wantedto do some something great. I
just I did, I wanted to be thislike, Great contributor to the

(31:17):
world. And I burnt out prettyfast. To be really honest, I
took on too much. This is kindof my story. I like, I take on a
lot, I do really well, when Itake on a lot. And I went out
you know, and so went throughhigh school. Church was a huge
part at first, I absolutelyhated it. Like I can't even

(31:40):
begin to tell you, your sisteris gonna listen to this, and
she's gonna be so mad.

Jennifer Malcolm (31:45):
That's okay.
You can love her and theexperience that you had,

Amy Stack (31:49):
yeah, yeah, no, I would look around and there was
all these perfect people in myhead. You know, everybody has a
story, everybody. But in myhead, I look around and think,
well, of course, they're smilingand singing because they haven't
gone through the hell I've gonethrough, you know. And it was
really years and years and yearsof letting God chip away. And

(32:10):
go, yeah, there's ton ofhypocrisy here. That's the
church, right? But knowing thatGod is real, and his word was
real, and it always had been,you know, the funny part of my
story is, despite all of whatwas going on in my life, we had
to look right in the eyes ofothers. So we went to church
every Sunday, and everyWednesday, and I was in mission

(32:32):
as we went to an Assembly of Godchurch. And the saving grace of
my entire life was the fact thatmission, so if you're not
familiar with it, it's almostlike a Christian Girl Scouts,
okay. And you have this bookthat you have to if you
accomplish all these things inthis giant binder, you get a
crown at the end. And that waslike, the epitome of achievement

(32:54):
for me, like, crowned me. And soI found myself in this season,
where I'm literally livingthrough a hell. I'm also
memorizing scripture. And itwasn't because I was as good
Christian and girls because Iwanted to, I wanted the frickin
crown,

Jennifer Malcolm (33:08):
you know, on the badges.

Amy Stack (33:11):
Right. But God works in mysterious ways. Because I
still have all of that scripturethat I memorized back then it
bubbles up all the time at me.
And so going through highschool, I had this basis. And I
really wanted to know, is hereal? Is he in this? You know,
Who is he, apart from thechurch, but unbeknownst to me, I

(33:32):
actually met my husband's there,which I'm really angry about I I
had this this plan, I was notgoing to get married. I was not
going to have a family. I wasgoing to go to law school. I was
going to move to Manhattan. Imean, I was like, I would tell
everybody, yeah, I just I wouldtell everybody and the second

(33:53):
youth group event that I hadgone to my husband who is one of
the most introverted people youwill ever meet in your life, he
was speaking that night, whichwas very strange, about how he
had lost his mother. His motherhad passed away when he was 16.
And the words that he spokeliterally like connected to my
heart, and all of a sudden thislittle tiny part of my heart

(34:16):
that I am pretty sure it haddied, you know, started you
sparking a little bit and I setthat aside for years. But, and
the one girl in the whole youthgroup that I thought, Oh my
gosh, she's the most annoying,she's like sickeningly perfect
You know, there's, she's my bestfriend. So like, you don't know
what life is going to do. Thesetwo people that I just thought

(34:38):
there was no way there's my twoacts in life, you know, here but

Jennifer Malcolm (34:46):
I love the distinction because because when
I went through my dark time,1213 years ago, and I'm starting
to share this a little bit moreon the podcast, but it really
went through a really darkseason and made some harmful
choices. Made some Powerfulchoices made some difficult
choices. But through that Ihated, hated the church hated

(35:09):
church. But I didn't hate thepeople, some people, right. And
I didn't hate God. So I was ableto distinguish the institution
has people and it's full ofhypocrisy. And that's not the
nature of God. So right. And tobe able to, you know, growing up

(35:31):
in the church growing up as apastor's kid growing up with,
you know, my sister and herhusband are youth pastors, and,
you know, being on that pedestalof being a PK and, and, and
needing to be perfect, I do havea Yeah, a battle of perfection.
And I love Rene Browns work ofthe gifts of imperfection, and
you know, how it brings shameand all of that, and, but
through that, being able todistinguish, you know, and

(35:54):
identify, like, the church isfallible, the church is human,
and to still allow faith toarise and to a small beating of
heart. You know, that littlethat little thing? When Dan
spoke that little bit of myheart isn't dead. There's
something Yeah, that can and,and unexpected people who give

(36:15):
you the drinks of cold water,the Yeah, kind smile, the
flowers unexpected that you'relike, that's human kindness. And
that's, you know, unconditionallove from heaven. Through people
as powerful.

Amy Stack (36:31):
Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Malcolm (36:33):
So you didn't end up in Manhattan?

Amy Stack (36:36):
No, I did not. You didn't react.

Jennifer Malcolm (36:40):
But you did end up as an attorney. So tell
the audience a little bit aboutyour success there? Because that
is that's a huge achievement.

Amy Stack (36:47):
Sure. Yeah. So I went to Baldwin Wallace in Berea. And
you know, that's a whole storyin of itself. I had a full ride
elsewhere, but I chose foranother reason for my dad
really, to stay near. And so Ikind of begrudgingly went
through the four years atBaldwin Wallace. And all the
while, you know, Dan and I hadstarted this really strange

(37:07):
relationship of, I guess, I wenever dated, like we just I told
him early on, like, I just, Iif, if you like me, you're gonna
just distance you're like, thiswas social distancing, because
of our social distancing wascool. Okay, so I told him stay
six feet away. Don't touch me. Imean, I for real, so for four

(37:28):
years of college, that's how wepretty much were, um, and then
my last year of college, well,my junior college, no senior
year sorry. He proposed. Ifinished college a semester
early graduated in December. Wegot married in March and I
started law school then inSeptember, August, September

(37:50):
then next year. I love lawschool. It is a world unto
itself. Like it is a you know,you can go do really well in
school, and then like justtotally dive nosedive in the law
school. They make you feel likeyou are the worst human in the
whole world. Somehow I stayed inand survived. I loved learning

(38:11):
about it. I love writing. Soyeah, I pass like with flying
colors all through I did reallywell. I'm really shockingly,
honestly. And then pass the baron the first try. So I became a
licensed attorney. Officially upthe bar in July, you find out in
November, so I officially becamea licensed attorney one month

(38:33):
before my son was born. Sothat's, you know, I'm jumping
around in the story a littlebit. But yeah. So november of
2006, I was officially licensed.
Wow. And

Jennifer Malcolm (38:46):
did you practice because I know you were
also pregnant. Did you practice?
Yeah. Practice like how likewith this degree, what have you
done? Or what's the last, youknow, 10 plus years look like
for you in that regard?

Amy Stack (38:59):
Sure. Yeah, I did. I I'm in law school, I clerked for
the city, a local municipalityfor two years. I love that I
started working with theprosecutor there love that got
an independent license from thestate bar to start actually
prosecuting cases before I wasbar certified. So that was
fantastic. I adored that Ireally like I, those were happy

(39:21):
days. And then I had gotten ajob with the Ohio Attorney
General before I had graduated.
And so yeah, I was for the foryour listeners. I know you
notice, but I wasn't supposed tohave any babies medically. So
when I started interviewing mylast semester of law school, I
had a lot of job offers and I,you know, was going back and

(39:44):
forth and trying to decide whatI'm going to do and then once I
committed to the Ohio AttorneyGeneral, I found I was pregnant,
very miraculously. So this waslike, this is like x three of my
life. Right, like, a littlecurveball. And I think In order
to do that, again, I can't evenemphasize more that like, I was
not healed and hold at thispoint. I still, I wanted to be a

(40:05):
mom. But I had majorreservations. And so I started
with the attorney general'soffice. When Michael was born in
December, I took a maternityleaves. And I think God just did
something in my heart, which waspart of my healing journey. And
I kind of felt like, if I wasgoing to do this mom thing,

(40:28):
which was totally foreign to me,and it just scared, the socks
off me that I was gonna do it.
My terms, and I was going to doit my way. And I was going to
try to do it well, and again,I'd like to achieve right, so I
was like throwing my entire selfinto being a mom. And I think
that disappointed a lot ofpeople that I walked away, I

(40:50):
ended up quitting my job to theattorney general, I worked in
private practice part time for anumber of years following so
gosh, that was 2007. I quit. Andthen from 2007, to really 2011,
I was in private practice on andoff part time, I own my own
practice for a little bit oftime, it actually grew really,
really big, and I couldn'thandle it. So I kind of started

(41:13):
shuffling that off, and, youknow, started working for other
people again, but since 2011,I've really been doing things
kind of off the grid. So I'vebeen arranging adoptions. I, I
arranged the very first Ohioadoption and Ashtabula that was
done without an agency, becauseadoptions are really expensive.

(41:35):
And I tried to cut out a hugechunk, and it was a huge battle,
but I did it. And so I've beendoing things kind of hush hush,
you know, and pro bono. I mean,I hate that term for free. I
mean, I'm serving people, I'musing what I'm doing what I want
what I said I wanted to do, Iwanted to help people. And when

(41:56):
you're in full time, it's it'seasy to get caught up in the rat
race, and I became a differentperson. So I'm happy to be where
I'm at now, although I'm notmaking any money.

Jennifer Malcolm (42:09):
Yet yet, or now, who knows? Yeah.

Amy Stack (42:13):
That may change.
Yeah.

Jennifer Malcolm (42:16):
So tell the listeners, Mica. Yes.

Amy Stack (42:23):
Yeah.
Yes, seven kids. Mica is 13. Noone just turned 12. Sam turned
10 this week. Emma was our firstgirl. She's eight. You're
quizzing here, Eli. Eli's gonnaturn six next week. layout is

(42:43):
our two year olds. And then wehave an almost six months a
little baby Aria.

Jennifer Malcolm (42:48):
Wow. And so again, for the listeners. I
know, Amy's story that you know,she was due to, you know,
medical stuff. She was you know,told she couldn't have kids.
seven kids later. You know, andand you showcase your kids all
the time on Facebook and socialmedia is so different that they

(43:09):
are?
And wait, and you homeschool?

Amy Stack (43:13):
I do. I do. Because remember everything I do I pour
my whole self into it right?
Yeah, well, no, that came. Micamy oldest is extremely
intelligent. And I we wentthrough all of this, like, what
do we do with this kid, youknow, and homeschooling became
an option. And again, notknowing that we were going to
have more, I have endometriosis,a grandmother of uterine

(43:37):
fibroids and polycystic ovariansyndrome. And we had, I was
diagnosed with all these things.
And as a teenager, we had gonethrough a whole bunch of
different interventions. Iactually had a hysterectomy
scheduled my last year of lawschool. My my health was so poor
at that point that that was kindof the last option. And I begged

(44:00):
for it to be postponed untilafter the bar exam because I
couldn't imagine taking the barexam and having hysterectomy and
I was 20. I don't know 2324 orsomething like that. Or 25. I
don't even know and blurt out.
And it all is really it thisway. And so they postponed it.
And I found out I was pregnantwith mica. So it was just this
complete miracle. And then itwas like boom, boom, boom, boom,

(44:22):
boom. So here we are. It's likeI haven't even had a chance to
kind of catch my breath andthink about I often say in my
moments of frustration, likethis is not my plan. This was
not my plan. Let's be reallyhonest, it's still hard and I'm
not your homeschool mom thatmakes cookies and my home. You
know, I want it to be the homewhere you walk in and you feel

(44:46):
like a hug just happened butit's there's gonna be shoes you
trip over and I have, you know,for boys. It's loud and
wallpapers, you know, coming offthe walls and it's just how it
is like, it's real.

Jennifer Malcolm (45:01):
And, and then through the journey to you also
became a special needs mom. Soyeah, share a little bit about
your special girl.

Amy Stack (45:09):
Sure, yeah. So again, um, you know, when we were
talking about ever having kidsbefore the end and I got
married, um, you know, he wasaware that I likely was not ever
going to be able to have them.
And we talked about adoptingand, you know, Dan is not a
planner, I remember what ourfirst big fight was when I had

(45:31):
asked him like, what his fiveyear goal was, and he was like,
What the heck is that? Like I?
How can you? How can you predictwhat you'll you know, what's
gonna, what life's gonna looklike in five years. And it's
funny, because you feel ThankGod. But we had talked about it.
And I told him, like, reallyearly on, you know, I kind of

(45:51):
feel like it was almost God'splan not to give me kids because
there's just no way I can't. Itwasn't like, I didn't want kids
because I don't like kids. Itwas I don't want kids because I
didn't know how to be a mom. AndI felt so broken, that I didn't
feel like I could nurture, youknow. And the other thing that
attracted me to Dan is, he's avery independent person, you
know, he is not needy, and he'snot codependent, we are best

(46:14):
friends, you know. And so that'swhat made like marriage doable,
but I could not imagine for thelife of me having a child. You
know, and God changed my heart.
And we went through a series ofthings to where, you know, I
actually then desire to havekids, but still had this fear.
And I remember praying, like,every day, while we were trying,

(46:35):
just don't need a special needskid. Like, I know that sounds
terrible. Let me just, I amquite aware of how terrible that
sounds, right. But I just knewcoming from where I came from,
just being a mom was going to behard enough, right? I definitely
questioned whether I could justnurture a mom, or a child as a

(46:56):
mom, right? I couldn't fathom aspecial needs child. And
honestly, through the years ofparenting, I thought the same
thing we've had challenges, youknow. But in 2018, so just a
little over two years ago, wewent into the hospital to have
our sixth child, our secondlittle girl, beautiful labor and

(47:19):
delivery. Actually, my oldestwas there. He wanted to be
there. And so it was just abeautiful labor and delivery.
And, you know, he got to holdher like, as soon as she was
out. And I saw immediately Ilooked at her and I knew that
she had Down syndrome, and whothere's so much to say. So the

(47:42):
last the next 2448 hours becamereally hard. It was a lot of
interventions. What I had knownof Down syndrome was what I
realized is very little, youknow, I knew very little, um,
they have a ton of healthissues, they have the potential,
you know, to have a ton ofhealth issues, it literally can

(48:02):
affect every system and everyorgan of their little bodies.
And so she was taken reallywhisked away. And I can I
realize I'm privileged to havehad five beautiful healthy
children before her to where youhave this moment where you're
snuggling, you're bonding, thepictures, you know, you see
daddy hold, wouldn't have thatwith her. It was you know, we

(48:23):
had some moments, but it wasvery hard. And we then, gosh, it
was just intervention afterintervention doctor after doctor
hospital after hospital and at10 days old. She was also
diagnosed with what's calledtransient myeloproliferative
disorder, which is a blooddisorder that is pre Luke, pre

(48:45):
leukemic. Her body has theability to basically produce
leukemia cells, differentstrains of them. And so then
they tested to see if she did infact, have leukemia, and she did
so 10 days old, you know, 10days before this. I was prepping
to have bring home this baby. Mystress was about how to

(49:07):
transition from five to sixkids. Do I have meals in the
freezer? You know, do I have theone Z's watch. And 10 days
later, we were sitting in ahospital room and you know,
oncology, pediatric oncology,just broken, just absolutely
broken. We actually received theofficial Down syndrome diagnosis

(49:27):
at the same time as we'vereceived the Leukemia diagnosis
in it. I mean, that was the onlytime I've seen my husband lose
it like he's so study. But hecried and you know, just needed
some time, which we all did. ButI've never seen him. I've never

(49:48):
just I call my carebear He's myoptimist and I've never seen
them needed to have a minutelike that. But you know, we
decided like that Okay, this isthe journey we're on, we're
gonna do this the best, we knowhow.
But it's hard. I mean, so, youknow, what I thought would be

(50:09):
life of trying to, you know,figure out how to handle a new
baby in this big family becamewho's going to watch the other
kids while I go down to oncologyand because she had to go every,
you know, two times a week, andwho's gonna you know who's gonna
hold her down while we take herblood this time? And you know,
mica wouldn't my oldest, he was12. No, he was 11. At the time,

(50:31):
he would go down with me, he wassuch a good kid. He packed his
backpack full of schoolwork,because it was hours long. And
we would go down and he helpedme. And if nothing else, he was
my emotional rock. My dad wentthe early days, too, you know,
and the emotional part of it allwas just so overwhelming that
and you're recovering fromgiving birth, for goodness

(50:52):
sakes.

Jennifer Malcolm (50:53):
Your hormones are over as well. Sure.

Amy Stack (50:57):
Yeah. And so there's there's a lot going on. I did
have people early on. I had saidto somebody that I was grieving.
And I got reamed by somebody.
Because like, how dare yougrieve a child of God? And, and
I say, I still like it's beentwo and a half years, and I'm
still I'm still dealing withthis one. Bird. You know, a lot

(51:17):
of people say to special needsmoms. Oh, but they're so
precious. Like, we know that weknow our kids are precious,
because that has never been apart of the question to my mind.
No, no, we don't need the wholeOba God's got a plan in there.
We know that like this, thischild was part of my body, you
know, like, I get that. Butthere is a grieving that

(51:39):
happens. You know, there's anexpectation of what you thought
life would look like. Butthere's also an expectation of
what you think your child's lifeshould look like. And for me
coming out of trauma and abuse.
My number one goal as a mom wasto try to make my kids lives as
normal as possible. And this wasa huge blow, you know,

Jennifer Malcolm (52:02):
right, in that, and I'm gonna ask you a
question that was not on thescript. In that, do you? Were
you dealing with failure? Like,did you feel like you failed?
Like, because you're doingtrauma? But obviously, this was
100% outside of your control?
But do you feel like or I'mresponsible? I'm a failure as a
mom.

Amy Stack (52:21):
Absolutely. Well, I think there's the unit Did I do
something wrong? Because thisthere's all that you know, which
people talk about, but Godthat's real, that's so real. You
know, there's no, um, theprocess of having carrying a
child with special needs. Andthen healing from it is a

(52:42):
process. It's a process. Youcan't explain that away for
somebody. But yeah, there's thishuge. I feel like I feel all the
time I cried and cried. Forweeks. I tried to explain to my
kids that, you know, I, God wasso good. You know, I honestly at

(53:02):
that point, we didn't know ifshe was gonna live or die. Um, I
didn't know that. I don't knowwhich one would be worse,
because it's a time when she wasso tiny. And she had all these
diagnoses lining up. It's justlike your mother's heartbreaks,
and goes, Oh, God have mercy. Isshe in pain? Is she you know,
you don't know. They can'tcommunicate that she wouldn't

(53:24):
cry. She didn't cry at all.
Like, at all. She didn't. Shedidn't make a noise. I had to
set my timer my alarm to feedher. The doctor said sometimes,
babies like this were they wouldstarve themselves to death if
they didn't have an attentivemom. Like they would starve
themselves. So, you know, lifewas so different. And I yeah,

(53:45):
the guilt was crazy. Hi, I'mtrying to navigate which doctor
to go to what therapy to pursue,even in like the following
months, even now, I'm not Imean, I am by no means I am so
new to this journey. It's noteven funny. But the guilt is
still huge. You know, we hadphysical therapy come in our

(54:07):
house for a number of months.
And it stressed our entirefamily out to the point where
like, I knew to schedule outthat day to accomplish nothing
else. I didn't even make dinnerthat night, because it was just
so intense. And so I quitphysical therapy and dealt with
that guilt of like, Am I doingthe wrong thing for my kid? You

(54:27):
know, we pursued other things,you know, and she, by the grace
of God, she's doing great, butum, yeah, it's constant guilt.
It's constant. Um, yeah, justmental anguish is really what it
is.

Jennifer Malcolm (54:41):
And then as you had your seventh baby, what
fears were you dealing withgoing into, you know, having
another having another girl?

Amy Stack (54:53):
Yeah, well, number seven was totally a surprise. I
was So very much, let me just, Iwas very much done after number
three. And that's a whole notherstory for another time. But um,
every got every baby that Godgave us, it's been a I have had

(55:15):
to overcome a lot, especiallythe beginning of the pregnancy
and my pregnancies are not easy.
I deal with a lot of chronicillness still. And so it's such
a huge sacrifice. So I was justkind of getting used to the idea
that maybe I was pregnant when Iwas taken in January to hospital

(55:36):
for preeclampsia. And I had tosay that, like I, we found out
was pregnant probably about ayear ago, maybe a little bit
longer with number seven. Andyet the the fear that something
genetically was wrong was huge.
The guilt that I was bringinganother child into the world,

(55:57):
and layout would not have me asmuch was actually crippling, to
be honest with you that was andit doesn't help that there are
other people that have notunkind words to speak like, why
didn't you do this? Why you knowthat this was selfishly like
Kate's done, let's move on. Soit's hard. And again, the people

(56:20):
pleaser in me wants to explainthat everybody, this was not my
plan. This is not my intention,but it doesn't matter. And we
got an early genetic test donewith with Aria, about 14 weeks,
so I knew genetically on paper,she was good. But she has fear.
I mean, you do, I think, I thinkhaving five, you know, normal,

(56:40):
healthy children, and thenlayout, you just all of a sudden
realize like, Oh my gosh, this,anything can happen. Anything,
this baby can have a geneticissue, she could have a, a
systemic issue she could have,you know, there's so many things
that you just didn't realize youtook it, you know, took for
granted. So I was definitelyreally fearful. But I had this

(57:04):
this almost like staunch, solid,like foundation for walking
through everything with Lael.
You know, it was a year and ahalf, two years of like heavy
advocacy for my daughter,finding a different voice that
I've never had before. And justnot caring what people thought.
I mean, just really, honestly, Iprobably have grown more in the

(57:26):
last two years of my life, andthe last, you know, the previous
36 inches. So this wasinteresting. But I did go into
the hospital in January withAria and had to stay there for
five weeks and deliver herprematurely because of
preeclampsia. So it's like, oh,like, like, just have me, just,
you know, give me the blows, butshe's happy and she's healthy,

(57:48):
and we're adjusting still.

Jennifer Malcolm (57:53):
And it's just amazing that and this is, you
know, part of the why this thispodcast if people would just
keep their mouth shut and bekind

Amy Stack (58:01):
Right

Jennifer Malcolm (58:02):
people say some of the stupidest things,
some of the most insensitivethings. And you know, and I've
said this on podcasts in thepast is, you know, sticks and
stones may break your bones, butwords will never hurt you that's
like such the epitome of theword stick the word heat and
repeat and repeat and repeat.
And, and, you know, it's, youknow, as a as a woman going

(58:23):
into, I don't even know if Iwant to be a mom, then being an
advocate, you know, that beingsuch a plumb line of your DNA is
I'm going to be an advocate anda fierce protector of my kids,
for anyone to come into intoquestion. You know, that that
bone that that DNA that that youhave, that's innate now is so

(58:45):
troubling. And it is. It's whatpeople say.

Amy Stack (58:52):
And I think women have to keep in mind, like and I
think this is the power of whatyou're doing to is, you know,
when people meet you at whateverpart of your journey, that's who
they think you are.
So if you've met me, three, fouryears ago, I'm this homeschool
mom of money. If you're on myFacebook feed you right you see
my kids, you might see what wedo or what you know, and I get

(59:14):
comments all the time, like ohmy gosh, you're such a good mom.
And I'm, I'm gonna just behonest, like I am working it out
with fear and trembling, okay,like, this is not easy. For me.
There's not one day that mommyhas been easy for me. I'm just
trying to live the best lifethat I can. But what they don't
see are the many, many years ofpain and hurt and frustration

(59:36):
and abuse and overcoming thathave gotten me to where I'm at.
And so everybody has thateverybody has these years, where
nobody really knows who theyare. And we just kind of jump in
their story in this timeline andassume that they are, who we
think they are. And we set theexpectations for them and how

(59:57):
they should be or how theyshould react. But it's so unfair
that we do do that to eachother. But we do. Yeah.

Jennifer Malcolm (01:00:03):
I want to wrap this up with as you're now
sharing your story of yourabuse. When did that in your
adulthood? You know, obviouslyyou you married Dan, you're
taking that step of healing tolet your guard down and show
intimacy vulnerability withsomeone even from six, six feet
apart from before guy. When didyou feel empowered to start

(01:00:30):
sharing your story? And thatreal, that real healing process
for yourself?

Amy Stack (01:00:37):
Sure. I mean. So the first person I ever shared my
story with was when I was ateenager, it was my cousin. She
was my very best friend. And Ithink because she couldn't run
away from me, because she was mycousin. I felt safe. So when he
was on my dad's side, she passedaway 10 years ago, be 10 years
this October. And when shepassed away, I lost a lot,

(01:01:00):
because she was probably theonly other person besides my
husband. Who knew everything,you know, and even my husband
like he just, I mean, he knowseverything, but like in layers
and seasons and and phases,where as she was the I just
emoted, I let her haveeverything. And I remember when
she was buried, like just feel apart of me was buried with her

(01:01:22):
because she, you know, that wasmy only real connection to the
process of processing throughthe trauma. But she was
wonderful. And then, yeah,Deanna and I, because of our
social distancing relationship.
We talked a lot. And we wrote alot. And as things were
progressing with us, it waslike, Oh, God, if this is going

(01:01:43):
to go anywhere, I have to tellhim. And again, it was little
chunks. It was like, hey, Jesse,no, I have some sexual abuse in
my past. And such an awkwardconversation, especially like,
when you knew somebody for yearsand years and years, and you're
not even sure like, are wegetting married? Do I tell you
these things. So it reallywasn't until like, we were

(01:02:05):
engaged, that more came out. Letme be perfectly honest, like, I
didn't realize the extent towhat I what I still had to heal
from until after we got married.
We very much social distancethroughout most of our
relationship, and marriage was ahuge shock to my system. And it
was really hard for me really,really hard to open myself up

(01:02:28):
that way. He has been veryamazing and patient, and there's
still things I mean, there'swe're 17 years in, but there's
seasons where if somethingchanges, or I'm triggered,
there's still triggers, right.
And so, um, there's still thingsthat come up that we have to
kind of process through. But hewas the second person that I
started kind of sharing my storywith. And then it really was

(01:02:50):
like five years ago when I heardNicole Bromley, share and just
share very unapologetically. Andvery just like, this is my
story. Like, this is just how itis. And I'm not ashamed of it
that I got really brave. Like, Ijust felt like she inserted
courage in me. And she I thinkwas the first person that said

(01:03:13):
the word encouraged means toinsert cards into somebody else.
And I felt like that I felt likeshe did that. And so my platform
just became, you know, privateconversations at that point. And
this is really the first timeI'm saying it's worth more than
one person come here to savetime. So I'm a little nervous,
I'm

Jennifer Malcolm (01:03:33):
courage.

Amy Stack (01:03:36):
And I hope that that's what happens to other
people because we don't have tolive in darkness. Because
something terrible happened tous. And we don't have to be
ashamed because we don't looklike this cookie cutter version
of what a mom or a successfulwoman or anybody should look
like. I certainly am never havenever been cookie cutter. And

(01:03:58):
that's okay. You know, um, youcan still feel loved and whole
and accomplish things and be agood mom and be a good wife. Not
perfect. And that person, youknow, and I have to overcome
still dealing and I think that'sthe other truth is, this doesn't
go away. But you're nottrappedin it either.

Jennifer Malcolm (01:04:17):
No, that's good. And I and through
capturing the stories and andthe beginning of the courage
being in my soul to share mystory, too. It's that piece of I
don't know how much more I haveto heal.

Amy Stack (01:04:33):
Right.

Jennifer Malcolm (01:04:34):
But I just, I just take a day at a time and I
think okay, I think I'm goo. I think I think I'm in a hol
spot until that trauma trgger occurs again. And when som
thing comes out sidewaysyou have a physical, emotiona
, spiritu

Amy Stack (01:04:48):
Yeah,

Jennifer Malcolm (01:04:49):
there's still there's still garbage down in
there. Oh, yeah. No going downin there. But when you have a
partner like damn, I have Chad.
I have my finger. I have my kidswho are beginning to hear parts
of my story. But when when youhave a community, who embrace
you, like your cousin did, and,and surround you with love,

(01:05:11):
yeah, and pull in that pain andbe a safe space for you to share
that. That's the power ofhealing the healing journey.
That's the power of insertingthat courage to break the
silence to break the shame. Andwhether it's something that
happened to you, or somethingthat someone chose to do. It's

(01:05:32):
still shame, it's stillbrokenness, it's still that
journey of vulnerability, thatwhen we start speaking our
truth, and our using our voice,that the power of shame is
broken, and that is the bedrockof, you know, advocacy that I am
hoping to, you know, continue toconvey through this podcast is,

(01:05:53):
it's breaking the lives ofshame. And we've made choices.
I've made poor choices in mylife, people made poor choices
in their life. And, you know, Isay, it's like failing to open
book test, when you know, theright answers, you know, the
right answers, and you choose tofail an open book test, the

(01:06:15):
amount of shame that comes withthat is unbearable, but with
gentleness and kindness, andallowing time to heal. And
forgiveness from peopleforgiveness toward myself. It's
just powerful. And, you know,that collective vulnerability
here is, is the goal. So, yeah,

Amy Stack (01:06:36):
yeah, it's good.

Jennifer Malcolm (01:06:38):
Any any closing remarks for our
listeners, as we wrap this up?

Amy Stack (01:06:43):
Oh, gosh, so many No.
I think I think if I were toleave everybody with one thing,
it would just be to be open towhat God has to use in your life
to heal you. And because Ithought my healing was going to
come one way, and it has comecompletely another way. And just
when you think that you can'thandle something, in a gentle,

(01:07:06):
loving way, he shows you hecan't, you can, and I am not, I
would not be the person I amtoday, without the very thing I
wished away. And that would bemy family, you know, my husband
and my kids. For years and yearsand years, I ran from that. And
here I am healing the deepestparts of my heart through them,

(01:07:28):
and I'm not using them to do it.
But God's using them to teach mein big ways, you know, big ways.
That there's hope, and there'swholeness. And when you take
these paper and you rip it, openall these tiny pieces, and you
stack them back up on top ofeach other, it was stronger than

(01:07:49):
a whole piece of paper in thefirst place. And that's kind of
what I always look at, if mylife is is, I'll never be able
to glue it back together. ButI'm gonna intentionally piece it
back together, stacked on top ofeach other and be strong,
because that's what my kidsdeserve. That's what people
behind me who are going throughthe same thing or have gone
through the same thing deserve.
They deserve to hear people whohave come out on the other side

(01:08:11):
and said, You know, I get it, itsucks. And I think that's the
only thing you know, say tosomebody in those times, it
sucks. You know, there's no goodcliches to say except for that.
But God's good. And there'sgoodness on the other side, and
there's healing and hope. That'sawesome.

Jennifer Malcolm (01:08:31):
Well, thank you so much for being with us
today and for having the courageto free I know that you did it
with amazing courage like youYou didn't even second guess
that that you wanted to do this,you needed to do this. You
wanted to be a voice for otherwomen and on through abuse, and
even as a special needs mom andthe that's a whole nother

(01:08:55):
podcast they are with that thatpiece of motherhood and but you
you really just said yeah, thisis I want to do this. And I
honor your courage and honoredthat you were here today to
share your story. So thank youso much.

Amy Stack (01:09:11):
Thanks for having me

Jennifer Malcolm (01:09:12):
You are o welcome. So that's it, and
e will catch you next timen Jennasis Speaks podcasts whe
e every woman has a story ad every story matters. Thanks
o muc Subscribe to the JennasisMovement to empower women's
voices and reclaim the power oer your own narrative.