Our Blessed Hot Mess Adoption Journey - Jennifer with Sarah Bratt - Jennasis Speaks: The Transformative Power of Women's Stories

Episode Transcript
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Jennifer Malcolm (00:10):
Welcome to the Jennasis Speaks podcast the
transformative power of women'sstories, a platform that
empowers women storytelling topromote collective
vulnerability, acceptance andhealing. I am your host,
Jennifer Malcolm, self madeentrepreneur, women advocate and
life balance expert.
Welcome to the next episode ofJennasis Speaks podcast the

(00:32):
transformative power of womenstories where every woman has a
story and every story matters.
I'm Jennifer Malcolm founder andpresident of Jennasis and
Associates and with me today isMiss Sara Bratt. Sara is an old
friend of mine. I've known herfor about 10 years. Previous
elementary school teacher, shewas a Jennasis and Associates
team member for several years.

(00:54):
And most importantly, adoptivemother of three beautiful
Ethiopian daughters. Marriedlives in Virginia, I believe,
and she's here to share herstory with you. So welcome,
Sarah.

Sara Bratt (01:07):
Thank you Jenn um, you know, live in the
quarantine dream.

I'm in the quarantine journey. So I am
going to preface this podcast bysharing I did say this in the
pre story that there are twopeople on this for this earth
that make me laugh like there'sno tomorrow. I don't know what
it is. But Sara is one of those.
So I anticipate some laughtersome tears. I brought my tissue.
My friend Shiloh is the otherone. I don't know what it is.

(01:32):
But they just have the gift ofgiving me some deep laughter
So,um,so do you remember how wemet?

Sara Bratt (01:41):
I don't think of that the other night. Somebody
connected us, but I don'tremember who it was.

I think it was Aliyah.

Sara Bratt (01:49):
Ah, that's right. It was Aliyah

so so you might be a Leah. Yeah. And so
she also does. adoptions? Yes.
And Leah and I were in the samebackground at a church together.
And I think you guys were in acommunity.

Sara Bratt (02:06):
Yeah. Good call.
I've totally forgotten that. Iwas trying to think about that
last night.
And at that point, you lived inOhio. So then you left and you
moved to Philly? I did. Yeah. I

Unknown (02:15):
found a new new tribe there. Yes. Yeah. And you
actually were the person. Wehave numerous people on Jennasis
Speaks now in Philly. And youwere like the inception of that.
So? Yep. Yep. You were theconnector. I don't know what it
is about you, but connecting andyou're like, Oh, you two need to
meet?

Sara Bratt (02:33):
That's because I've never met a stranger. I'll talk
to anybody.

And my kids always make fun of me because
they're like, Mom, you will talkto anyone. Yeah, my like, well
wanted human kindness. Right.
Like you never know, like thepoint of connection or just, you
know, they think it's odd.

Sara Bratt (02:51):
There's been many, many times where I'm like, Hey,
we're gonna go have dinner atthis family's house. And they're
like, Well, how do you knowthat? I'm like, Well, I'm at the
mama on Facebook. And they werelike, Mom, you like, that's not
safe. I had my like, you know,at the time, 12 year olds
telling me, Mom, that's notsafe. You can't just like meet
strangers from the internet andgo to their houses,

Which is what we tell our kids all the time.

Sara Bratt (03:14):
Exactly right. Like, oh, but this is different.

I know, we were actually talking about the
other day. Paige is justgraduate from Qatar High School
going to college this fall,which is crazy. And we were
talking about how differentbecause Camden's 19. And how
she's got different roles,because she's a girl, she's not
allowed to, you know, go on aroad trip for three, four or

(03:41):
five hours because she's a girl.
And I think it is different. Andso we were talking at my book
club last week about you know, Isaid, you never know, like, you
could you know, like, get yourtire blown out, your car runs
down. And you know, you mightget like some stranger that
stops by and the one person orbook club goes, Okay, how likely

(04:02):
is that going to happen? And Iwas like, I was 22. On my way to
my bridal shower. I got my carbroke down on 77 going south.
And they didn't have cell phonesweren't prevalent back then.
Right? And some guy pulled overand said, Hey, I'll take you to

(04:24):
the next exit. And I thoughtprobably not a great idea. But I
got in the car.

Sara Bratt (04:29):
Oh my gosh. Right.
Right.

And I was like, so the chances are I'm
smart. Like I was smart. And Iknow, like just smart. And I was
like you just in your instinctmake decision that could change
soso yeah, I'm all he said.
teasing because my kids are thesame way. Like when you talk to
strangers. That's weird,

Sara Bratt (04:46):
Right. Exactly. Yes.
Yes.

So tell me what the point of this podcast
is to talk about your journeywith motherhood and adoption.
How you guys chose this route.
So share a little bit about thebackground of you and your
husband and your journey and howyou got here.

Sara Bratt (05:07):
Okay. So I grew up with adopted family members and
our extended family, my twoaunts are adopted at birth. And
so I remember being like 12, andtalking to my aunt about it, and
always being really fascinatedby the whole concept and really
liking the idea. Because Idefinitely felt very strongly

(05:27):
that God put me on this earth tobe a mother. But the idea of
being pregnant and giving birthmade me want to like jump off a
bridge. Like I had no desirewhatsoever to do any of that.
And I had friends who were like,Oh, my gosh, I can't wait till I
get pregnant. And I'm like, Oh,that's like, having an alien
inside of you. That seems likenot okay with me. So I didn't

(05:49):
really know how to like, um,kind of come to terms with Why
do I want to be a mom so bad,but why am I like grossed out at
the idea of like growing a humaninside of me, that's hilarious.
So then, I ended up gettingdiagnosed with Crohn's disease.
And my husband, his mom hasCrohn's disease as well. So was

(06:10):
it on both sides of the family,it was a 30% chance of passing
that on to a biological child.
And then my husband's father wasdiagnosed with Huntington's
disease, which is extremelygenetic and fatal. So
Huntington's is 50%, genetic,and fatal. There's no
treatments, no cures nothing. Soas devastating as that was, to

(06:35):
kind of realize that that waspart of our family's story. It
honestly gave me a get out ofjail free card, because it would
be knowing all of that genetichot mess, it was, in my mind, it
felt selfish, to decide to havea biological child, and risk all
of that genetic awfulnesspotential.

(07:00):
Yeah, yeah. So that's kind ofhow we decided on adoption. And
then I, you know, how I loveExcel. And so I, of course, made
a spreadsheet of all of thecountries, I went on the
websites of kind of the bigadoption agencies in our

(07:21):
country, and just to see whatcountries were open for adoption
at that point, because throughour state department that
changes all the time, whether itbe our country shuts down our
relationship with that country,as far as adoption, or that
country decides that they'regoing to either end
international adoption andgather.

What made you choose international adoption
versus domestic?

Sara Bratt (07:45):
It's interesting, because I, when we started this,
um, when we started thisjourney, I was 28. And I just
thought for sure, I will couldnot handle an open adoption. So
I didn't think that I couldhandle having a relationship
with the birth family. It feltscary to me. And I just felt

(08:11):
safer. Doing an internationaladoption, where the parent like
some some random legal issuecouldn't pop up, and the parents
could come back. And so what'sfunny about that is, we hired an
investigator a few years back,probably five years ago now to
find our girls birth families inEthiopia. And we're in contact

(08:35):
with them while we're in contactwith the twins birth mom,
because there are more in a cityand have access to the internet.
We're Celia, my youngest momlives very early. So we have
pictures of her and she haspictures of Celia, but we
haven't had contact with hersince any investigator went out
there. So I like to say Ithought, you know, the idea of

(08:58):
open adoption was sort of scary.
And now I just see what ablessing it is. And yeah, I
would be totally open to it now.
And I think a lot of that isjust maturity and life
experience. And I carry

Yeah, and I think that idea of security,
safety, reassurance, and everyperson is different. So even
through this, you know, thosewho of you who are listening,
all of us are going to responddifferently, emotionally,
spiritually, intellectuallybased on our past based on our
potentially our partner or ifwe're alone, just the
circumstances. And this isSarah's story. And it's a

(09:37):
powerful one. But this is herhers to share and doesn't mean
that every situation or choicethat she made through this
journey is the choice so no, sokeep going.

Sara Bratt (09:48):
Yeah, and I just think it's important for women
especially to grant each othergrace and, you know, if you feel
strongly that you want to have abirth child and you go through
it rounds of IVF. And, you know,I respect that journey because
that's what you feel called todo. And that's like the desire
of your heart. And I'd say themajority, vast majority, maybe

(10:12):
90% of the people that I know inmy adoption community adapted
out of infertility. So they hadto really grieve the loss of
that idea of having a birthchild. Before they could move on
to race where using the joy ofadopting.

Which you said, candidly, you got your get
out of jail free card.

Sara Bratt (10:34):
Exactly. So that's just a part of it, like the I
don't relate to, and I feelblessed that I didn't have to go
through that hard part of it,or, because that was the desire
of my heart was always to adapt.
Right? Um, but again, like Godmakes all of us different gives
us all different desires. And wejust have to follow that and not
judge each other for ourjourneys that we go on.

So tell me about your three girls, because
I know they're very similar,very different, very unique, and
then we'll get into how youradoption process kind of went
down.

Sara Bratt (11:07):
So I have 14 year old twin girls, so that in
itself is a mask.

How old were they when when they came due?

Sara Bratt (11:16):
They were four. And when they came to me, they
barely spoke any English. Theybasically knew how to say no,
and that was their favoritething to say. And they were like
a hot mess. They while they'restill hot mess, but the fact
that they can like function in aschool setting any kind of

(11:36):
social setting is just likepretty amazing considering where
they came from. Because whenthey came to us, they have a lot
of issues and a lot of trauma. Imean, there's reasons behind all
of us. But um, yeah, it's been.
It's been interesting, you know,teenagers, as you know, are
interesting.

They are hellions. Yeah.

Sara Bratt (12:00):
I will say though, I feel like I like my kids more as
they get older. I don't knowwhat that is like. I remember
when the twins went tokindergarten. And then they had
this thing called a boohoobrunch for the moms who were
like, so sad that their kidswere going to kindergarten. And
I was like, uh, you have a yahoobar crawl, because that's what I

(12:20):
want to join. Because I'm notcrying at all. My kids here,
take them please do not sendthem home for three hours.

We're gonna pub crawl. Back at three.

Sara Bratt (12:31):
I'll be drinking heavily.

That's hilarious.
And everyone is so different.
Because I I remember having ahard time when Camden went to
kindergarten, like that, youknow, breech, but I still had at
that point, you know, totoddlers. Yeah, I felt like it
got easier with the girls like,okay, I can actually shower or I
can get something accomplishedwithout someone knocking on the
door or asking for a snack orleaving their nose wiped or any

(12:58):
of that stuff. So I did.
Alright, so mom bar crawl forkindergarten. Keep telling me
what that new that'd be the newtrend.

Sara Bratt (13:06):
Yeah, I think it would be a great idea. You know,
you got it. You got a diverseI'm a teacher. You got to like
diversify to meet everybody'sneeds.

And especially all these moms over the last
four months that had tohomeschool around. Yeah, I feel
like I am on there. And

Sara Bratt (13:21):
yeah, yes. One school goes back to normal one
day and the far future we shouldall just go and drink heavily.
I'm not even a big drinker. Youknow that. I just like you. Yes.
I like the old lady dreams. Yes,yes. I've been consuming about

(13:41):
one Smirnoff Ice every night.
There you go. Because it's noteasy being home with your
children all day. No, I myyoungest is 10. Her name is
Celia. And she is a lot.

So she's a hot mess too?

Sara Bratt (14:01):
She's maybe the hottest mess like you know like
if you're thinking of peppers,like spicy pepper. She may be a
ghost pepper hot mess. Maybe?
Probably like a jalapeno. Likesome people can palette me
right? Like, people enjoy me.
I'm not ever I'm not everyone'staste for sure. Like when I meet
someone I give them like 10% ofme, sir first because I don't

(14:23):
want to like scare them. Right?
Because I'm a lot and I'm not.
I'm not everyone's taste. CeiliaI would put her in the ghost
pepper. Ghost.

So how old was she wigs? I do remember when she
came but how old was she whenshe came to your home?

Sara Bratt (14:39):
She was four as well. So that seems to be my
well was my sweet spot. I'm waytoo old for that now. Like, I
think if we we plan on fosteringteenagers once our kids are out
of the house, that's awesome.
Because again, I just thinkwe're more older kid. Kind of.

So not the runny nose diapers. No No,

Sara Bratt (15:00):
I intentionally opted out of the toddler phase.
I love babies. I love otherpeople's babies just like I love
other people's puppies. Likethat's a lot of work that I'm
not interested in. I'm not a fanof toddlers of any kind, because
they're basically littletyrants. And I just, they're

(15:21):
like little terrorists. And Ijust can't, I can't

So when you teach what age group do you
teach? Don't tell me toddlers?
No.

Sara Bratt (15:31):
I've worked in many daycares. And they've always
been like, I've always told themdo not put me in the toddler
room. No, because they will tieme up and tie me to a chair and
it's just not going to be tolook. So I have worked with
preschool, kindergarten, andsecond grade. Okay. When I
taught in schools, it waskindergarten and second grade.

So that that middle age is fine. You're
getting older is even moresufficient?

Sara Bratt (15:58):
Yes. I like the independence. I like the
conversations like aboutmeaningful things. I enjoy that.

I agree. I agree. And and having now almost
16, almost 18 and 19 year old.
That same, that same thing, likehaving true conversations
enjoying, I took Reaganthrifting yesterday. And she was
like, we have to do this becauseI'm a child. And she was joking
and bantering with me and otherkeywords, anything but a child
like I like almost 16 years old,and you are self sufficient to

(16:29):
go talk to the stranger to getthe key to the bathroom like

Sara Bratt (16:34):
Exactly, yes, you can do that. So great. All
right.

So tell me how you got the girls. And what I
mean, a lot of people are veryfamiliar with international
adoptions, and my sister and herhusband adopted Marquis when he
was little. But you didn't youand Mike do something very
different. So describe what thatis and how you guys even found

(16:59):
out about it, because it's kindof something that was very rare
the first person that I everknew about it.

Sara Bratt (17:03):
So Mike and I had started off from my spreadsheet
to a top from Ethiopia, that thetime in 2010, they had the least
amount of red tape. And the kidsit was being reported that the
kids are coming out of theorphanage pretty healthy,
emotionally and physically. Andobviously, every Ethiopian I've

(17:25):
ever seen from like zero to 100.
It is stunningly gorgeous. Sothat didn't hurt. So we started
the process with our agency justto do run of the mill Ethiopian
adoption, okay. And we keptrunning into these weird, weird
obstacles. So one of them wasbecause of my Crohn's disease. I

(17:47):
had my doctor for ClevelandClinic, who was basically like a
dad to me, he looked at me andhe said, Sarah, you, you
understand, you can't go toEthiopia. And I said, Oh, but I
am because my kids are there. SoI'm gonna go to Ethiopia. And
he's like, but you can't becauseyou can't even get the required
CDC immunizations to go there.

Because of chromes.

Sara Bratt (18:13):
Yeah, yeah, because I have my weakened immune
system. And one of them was thelive vaccine, and I wasn't
allowed to have that. So thatwas an obstacle. There was
another obstacle with my name,as far as I changed my middle
name to my maiden name when Igot married, but apparently, you
have to go to probate court forthat. And the lady at the Social
Security Office didn't tell methat.

Now, you know, those of you note? Yes.

Sara Bratt (18:39):
Now, you know, Yep.
Yep. And honestly, like, ifyou're, if you're not doing
anything with internationaladoption, it doesn't ever really
come up. Right. So there wasjust all these obstacles that
were coming up. So our agencyhad connected us with this other
family, that was going to be thefirst family in that agency to
go through their Ethiopiaprogram. Okay, they've connected

(18:59):
us on social media. And I wishat that point was just Facebook,
and MySpace back then. I knowright now, we're beyond MySpace,
but not not much. Not too far.
Not too far off. So I had kindof stopped this lady on Facebook
and you know, kind of follow herjourney. And I had seen that

(19:24):
their trip to Ethiopia and allthe pictures she was posting.
And they came home, and theywere posting a little bit of
pictures, but not as many. Okay,so I got this phone call and
like April 30. Now, my name isstarted this journey in January.
We were hoping to have kids homeby the end of December. And the

(19:46):
agency calls me April 30. Andit's like, so what would you
think about twin four year oldgirls? Because we had specified
five and under we wanted asibling group and we didn't
specify Gender, okay. So theytold us you'll probably get boys
because most people specifygirls, okay? And I said, Great.

(20:07):
Yeah. And Mike said, wouldn't itbe funny if we got twin girls?
And I looked at him as I'mcoming from a family of only
boys. And I said, No, that wouldnot be funny, but and you will
now think it's funny when youare dealing with everyone's
period sinking up. And payingfor two prom dresses at the same

(20:27):
time paying for two weddings.
And all the attitude is going tocome with

all the emotions, right? Nobody? Nope.

Sara Bratt (20:35):
So when we got that call, I looked at him, like,
Alright, buckle your seatbelt,like, oh, put this out in the
universe. And here it is. Hereit is.
See how funny you think it is?

Exactly. It's all cute and fun now.

Sara Bratt (20:52):
Right, right. So basically, what had happened is
the family that brought themhome, they had initially told
the adoption agency, they wanteda three year old and under girl
one. Okay. Our adoption agencywas so in a hurry to get their
first Ethiopian adoption undertheir belt that they rushed this

(21:14):
placement through. And if youare wanting to adopt, and they
put this placement in front ofyour face, even if it's not like
the perfect fit, it's reallyhard to say no. Right? So the
agency put them in an impossibleposition. They also the family
had one child that was olderthan the twins that was special

(21:34):
needs. And another child thatwas the same age as the twins,
which in the adoption world. Youdon't do artificially they call
it artificial twinning. But inthis case, it would have been
like an artificial triplet.
Because these kids may competewith each other if they're the
same age

Are all four of the children, Ethiopian?

Sara Bratt (21:56):
No, they were all biological. So there were three
biological boys in the family.
And then they brought the twinsin. Okay. So they were with that
family for four weeks in thatfamily decided there were a lot
of other factors, but they werekind of forced into a decision
of disrupting the adoption. Andthey couldn't have been nicer.
They happen to live in ourhometown. And we kind of started

(22:19):
going over there just to meetthe girls. And then we would
take them for a little bit.
We're trying to like transitionkind of oily.

Because they literally came from Ethiopia to
this house four weeks later,this family's like, I don't
think this is an ideal fit forour family.

Sara Bratt (22:39):
Exactly.

stepping in to kind of bridge that
relationship. Oh, yeah.

Sara Bratt (22:43):
Yes. So I was around May 13, that we took over the
adoption that they came to livewith us, wow, full time. And so
they hadn't been in the countryat six weeks. And all the time
that they had spent at thathouse was not very, they hadn't
made much progress as far aslanguage learning, because there

(23:06):
was just a lot of trauma thatthey were kind of processing
through. So when they came tous, they hardly spoke any
English whatsoever. They hadsevere PTSD. So we had to learn.
It was a weirdest God thingbecause I had interviewed for a
part time position at a youthCrisis Center in Korea. And so I

(23:29):
had gone through all of theirtraining, I learned these holds
to restrain kids who are, youknow, kind of out of control
just to help calm them down. Ididn't end up finishing that job
because I got a different jobthat was full time, it was a
better fit, but that trainingwas like invaluable when it came

(23:50):
to our kids because they theyneeded that. That restraint to
be just kind of like calm downand told you know, you're safe.
It's

okay. And even that I'm that and I'm no expert
in this. So if I say this poorlyto the audience or to you, but
even that pressure like that,that that pressure that you're

Sara Bratt (24:09):
exactly, you're okay. Yeah.

And being you know, soothing words love all
that is bringing a calmnessfactor to children.

Sara Bratt (24:18):
So definitely because they they all three of
my kids have been diagnosed withsensory integration disorder. So
they need that that pressure ispart of like, just like you
said, calming them down. Andthey need that input that
sensory input. So that was kindof our life for a year and a
half. Wow, it was it was a lot.

So you're going from no kids in the home.
Yeah. New to four year olds thatare now very much a don't speak
English. Right. And be nowdealing with post traumatic

Sara Bratt (24:55):
so Right, right.
Yeah, come on. So Of course,once they start kind of evening
out at about seven years old, wedecided just to renew our home
study so that we could be readyin case something were to come
along. Now, during this time, wehad realized that these

(25:15):
disruptions, especially needs ininternational adoptions are
pretty common.

Oh, interesting.

Sara Bratt (25:26):
So a lot of these kids go into foster care. Or are
at that point, there were allthese kind of underground read
homing kind of things going onthat we had no oversight, had no
checks and balances, which islike terrifying, right? So they
were like Yahoo groups wherepeople were going in and

(25:48):
basically listing their childlike they were a puppy to find a
new home for.

Wow.

Sara Bratt (25:53):
So

this is in the US?

Sara Bratt (25:55):
Yes.

Wow.

Sara Bratt (25:57):
So in the US, if you have a biological child that you
relinquish to the state forstate custody to place them in,
in foster care, not like you'reforced to, but you choose to do
that. So you choose to placeyour child somewhere else. You
face charges. So you facecriminal charges of some sort of
neglect. I don't rememberexactly what the charges. Okay.

(26:18):
It is not that way with adoptedchildren. You can, yeah, you can
play some of the new family playsome in foster care. There's
absolutely new, no repercussionslegally. So it's very, very easy
to I mean, not emotionally. Butlegally, it's very easy to say
we can't do this anymore. Wow.
Okay. So when we realize kind ofwhat an epidemic that was, we

(26:42):
decided that that was going tobe our calling. And if something
were to fall into our laps, thenwe would evaluate that.
Absolutely. So I called anagency just to get our home
study, updated, not the sameagency we used before, because
we found out some things aboutthem. And we just didn't want to
give them any more money, surelylost respect for them. So I

(27:04):
called the small agency inToledo that was recommended to
me and they said, Oh,absolutely, we can help you
update your home study. But justyou know, we've never dealt with
disrupted adoptions. And I said,no problem. I just need the home
study updated. I don't need youknow, placement or anything.
Register. We just want to beready. Right. So that was on. I

(27:26):
want to say that was aWednesday, and she calls me
Friday morning. And she said,You're not gonna believe this.
And I said, try me.

Try me. I already have two twins, right?
You're

Sara Bratt (27:39):
Try me. It's hard to shock me at this. Exactly. She
said that that morning, they hadgot a call about a four year
old. Well, at the time, she wasthree, a three year old
Ethiopian girl who their familywas looking to disrupt their
adoption. Yeah. And I said, Thatdoesn't surprise me at all. Like

(28:00):
I just got out not to theuniverse. Exactly. Here comes
God being like you're doingexactly what I told you to do.
Right. So So that was myyoungest Celia, and she had been
with her first adoptive familyfor three years. So they brought
her home at town. Wow. Um, sothe mom had wanted to adopt

(28:26):
because they couldn't they werehaving infertility issues. And
then the mom ended up gettingpregnant. So basically treated
Celia like a second classcitizen because she definitely
favored her other children. Andthen so Celia was not treated
well the entire time that shewas living with them for three

(28:47):
years and then was given awayWow. And they wanted no further
caught like we're still incontact with the twins first
family. They were with them forsix weeks. Right? Like we're
still we still talk to them now.
It's it's kind of faded off overtime, or, but Celia's family
that she was there for threeyears wanted no further contact
ever. They wanted us. She wasfour years old when she when we

(29:08):
got her in court. But theywanted us to lie to her and say
she had always lived with us.

Sorry.

Sara Bratt (29:17):
And so our lawyer was like, just tell her you'll
do it so that we can just pushthe third she said he was like,
there's no legal requirement foryou to do that. Wow. Um, so they
just, I mean, the dad seemedfine. He was like sobbing in
court because he adored her. Sowhen we went to court, they
flew. They had to fly to Ohio.
They lived in California. And inthe courtroom, the dad was

(29:41):
sobbing. He adored her. But themom had zero effect whatsoever.

Oh, and I remember part is because this at
this point, you were working atGenesis. This was like 2000.

Sara Bratt (29:57):
Yeah because I started in September, and then
fell in my lap, like, a coupleweeks after I started with you,

Right. I remember.

Sara Bratt (30:04):
I was like, um, that's like a surprise pregnancy
or something like

we've had numerous of those on the team,
like, have a baby I'm notplanning on.

Sara Bratt (30:15):
Right, right.

So the dad really sounds like had bonded
and would have probably chosento keep her. And the mom was
driving the

Sara Bratt (30:25):
zero aspect whatsoever. And she had said,
apparently, she had sex with thedad. And if we don't disrupt her
adoption, I'm leaving you andtaking the voice.

Wow. Wow.

Sara Bratt (30:35):
So I've kind of like taking the data side in the
courtroom and said, Listen, ifyou want to continue contact,
like, I think it would behealthy for her to have
continued contact with you ifyou have a good relationship
with her. Because otherwise, itwas like, they'll just died.
Right? Because she never heardfrom them or never saw them
again.

Does she remember them? Because now? She
has, I mean, four years old, youhave memory,

Sara Bratt (31:01):
Even when she was like six, when we were in
Pennsylvania, she saw he flew ahelicopter for the Coast Guard.
Okay. And she saw a helicopterup in the sky and start crying
and said, is that my is that myother dad coming to get taken me
away from you?

Wow. So absolutely.

Sara Bratt (31:21):
Yes. Yes. She has a lot of memories from that. I'm
unfortunately. So not many.
Great, right. I'm so sorry. Soher trauma was me. I mean,
obviously, there's trauma andbeing separated from your birth
mom. Absolutely. But then shehad another whole nother layer
of trauma in that. She haspeople telling her you're not
good enough right. Now, peoplewho agreed to love her forever.

(31:44):
We are giving her away?

Absolutely.
Because they had theirbiological children.

Sara Bratt (31:52):
Yeah, exactly. And, you know, just like, if you have
a biological child, there's noguarantee that they were also
saying that she had all theseweird special needs that

I remember that and you're like, Whoa, uh,
no, and no.

Sara Bratt (32:06):
Right? Like, because she probably was premature when
she was born. And she probablyhad some delays. Because when he
was in the orphanage, she herpaperwork set starvation. So I
think she had failure to thrive.
And so it was developing thingslater. So she, they were taking
her to OT and PT. But they wouldsay weird things like, she's not
strong enough to pick astrawberry off the vine. She's

(32:27):
not strong enough to bite into apiece of pizza. And I'm thinking
at the time she's three cutterpizza up for her. Exactly. Yeah,
weirdo. Like, that's your thingto fault a child for?

Yeah, because she can't take a bite of pizza.

Sara Bratt (32:43):
And I remember the summer after we got her cuz we
got her in November. And thatfollowing summer, we went
strawberry picking took apicture of her taking a
strawberry of mine.

I believe my child can pick strawberries.

Sara Bratt (32:55):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Because that is the standard, ofcourse.

Sure. Sure.
It's hilarious.

Sara Bratt (33:01):
Yeah. But like when you have a biological child,
there's zero guarantee thatyou're going to have a child
with no special needs. Correct.
And honestly, being a socialworker and a teacher, I think
every child has their own set ofspecial needs. Absolutely.

And and they're all different, whether
it's physical, emotional,mental, trauma induced, you
know, over every child. A needsto be loved and unconditional
love is the foundation. I thinkas the audience and moms we all
know that. It'd be like, mythree kids, their friends, all

(33:37):
of them have the little nuancesof like, Okay, what is that?
Whether it's, yeah, worry toomuch, or no OCD or different
things, whether it's diagnosedor not their disease, that as
parents, you just group them andguide and look through and, you
know, work on them to overcomeand empower and give them tick

(33:58):
tips and tools to write that,but we're all we

Sara Bratt (34:02):
all have our quirks, so, and we're all willing to do
whatever we have to do for ourchild, no matter what we're
willing to go to the ends of theearth to help our child really.
And I thought it should be thatway, no matter if they're
biological or adopted.
Absolutely. So now they're howold they're 14 1414 and 10. Wow,
almost 11. And I always amazedCecilia will be 11 in October.

(34:26):
And when I used to teach, Itaught second grade but I also
was nannying for this family atthe time that had an 11 year old
daughter who had this likeattitude. And so her name was
Jordan. She's like in collegenow almost graduating. But I
always be like, Oh my gosh, stopbeing 11. So it's like our joke
right now. She just turned 22.

(34:48):
So I sent her a text and said,Oh my gosh, your double 11 now
awesome. And now they're givingme a hard time they're like, Oh
my gosh, Sheila is almost 11 andI'm like, oh don't remind me.
That's funny.

Now So obviously, Celia remembers her
disruption. The twins don'tbecause they were little.

Sara Bratt (35:11):
They were the same age they remember they remember
that other family too. Butagain, it's not there's no real
negative feelings because weeven got together with them. We
saw them. Um, it was a couple offourth of July's ago we were in
Ohio. And I thought I saw one ofthe boys like walk by. And I

(35:32):
texted her. We were at the slickFourth of July, fireworks when
we were allowed to be aroundpeople. I was like, I was always
like, Oh, this is so people. Ijust, I don't like a lot of
people. And now I'm just like, Ijust want to see people. I don't
care if they're strangers. Okay.
And I had texted the mom andsaid, it just it looks like I

(35:53):
just saw Nicholas walkingaround. And she was like, Oh my
gosh, you guys in Ohio. So theylike came over and saw us and
they're just they're good, goodpeople. They still have pictures
of the twins up in there. Youknow, I've been all their family
pictures. They still have thatpicture them because they were
they consider them part of theirfamily. It was four weeks, six
weeks. Right? So

are the two the twins process it differently
than Celia does the MTS becauseone's really trauma based. Right
and one isn't.

Sara Bratt (36:25):
Right and one was so short term. It was more like
kind of like a foster careplacement. A temporary
placement. Okay, before I wentto your forever. Oh, wow. Yeah,
yeah. I mean, there wasdefinitely trauma in that. They
were told when they got there,you know, this is your mom and
your dad and you're going tolive with them forever. And then

(36:46):
six weeks later, we're having aconversation. Like, just
kidding. You're it was actuallythey came to the United States
on April Fool's Day. So I alwaysjoke with them like, April
Fool's you went to the wrongfamily? Mom, and you can't say
that. That's terrible.

Well, you can now Now, right? No, may not be
as funny. How did you likefamily? Your friends, you know
processes with you? Did theythink that you guys are crazy,
were they supportive? That'sjust,

Sara Bratt (37:17):
I mean, they already knew

jalapeno crazy.

Sara Bratt (37:20):
jalapeno, pepper crazy, for sure. Go super crazy.
Um, my mom, it took a lot forher to I don't know if she even
still understands she adoresthem who are but my mom
definitely had that longing tohave biological grandchildren.
That didn't understand my lackof longing to have biological

(37:43):
children, she wanted me to tryto at least give birth to one of
my children. But with my health,you know how bad it is? I could
die. Like that's how bad myCrohn's disease is, it would be
really dangerous. I've hadmultiple surgeries in my abdomen
area, it would be really bad,really bad situation. Sure. Um,

(38:04):
so it was hard for her toprocess it. And it was also when
she won't be listening to this.
So I can say this. When I toldher we had chosen Ethiopia, she
said, why wouldn't you adoptfrom Russia? And I said, Well,
that's interesting. I'll tellyou why. Because I had to have
reasons. There's a lot inRussia. It's socially acceptable

(38:26):
in their culture to drinkalcohol when you're pregnant. So
they have a lot of physicalfetal alcohol syndrome coming
out of there.

I have a whole spreadsheet and my whole list.
spreadsheet.

Sara Bratt (38:36):
Mom, it's on the spreadsheet

There you go.
Let me share that spreadsheetwith you all.

Sara Bratt (38:43):
Right. It was hard for her to picture having black
grandchildren. Or I definitelythink that was not that she
would never admit that Oh, asever, right. And actually, I was
most concerned about mygrandparents because they're of
that generation. Absolutely. Iwas constantly correcting my

(39:05):
grandmother when she would saycolor people or she would
whisper. She'd say, did you seethat black woman over there? I'm
like, why are you whispering?
That's not a bad word. What areyou doing? That's so weird. You
can't do that. So I was mostconcerned about them. For which
it was amazing to watch mygrandparents in their 80s grow
as people. Nobody loved thoseloves my grandkids more than my

(39:30):
grandparents. That's awesome.
And my grandfather ended uppaying because we were going to
have to fundraise and all thisstuff. And then everything
started happening so fast,right? He just he paid for the
whole adoption. He said we justneed to get them here. We just
need to take care of it. Andthen you guys, you know, don't
give me back whatever you canwhenever you can.

That's amazing.

Sara Bratt (39:52):
So, yeah, they ended up

going back to like how your heart expands.

Sara Bratt (39:57):
Yes.

The thing at grandparents. It's such a You
know grew up in an era with alot of racism or things you know
words that they were veryprevalent Yes, all your heart
can grow and love and kindness

Sara Bratt (40:13):
learn like Maria never really known black people
were they weren't came from avery white southern Ohio town
there. So they they justrealized that Oh, they're just
people they're same as us just alittle Tanner.

Wow. Now Do you get comments now being
obviously you and Mike are whiteand your writers are Ethiopian.
So do you get the weird looksnow as it as a family? Or do you
feel like?

Sara Bratt (40:47):
Well, we definitely still get the looks for sure. I
don't get as many looks when I'mby myself with them. Okay,
because people generally justassume I have a black husband.
Okay. But what's funny is whenMike's with them, he says people
always come up to him and belike, Oh, are they adopted? And
Mike's? Like, Why doesn't anyonethink I could have a black wife?

(41:08):
He gets all offended.

Though, that's very interesting. Right? Yeah.
That's very interesting.

Sara Bratt (41:17):
And you know, the most most of the people that
give us weird looks is mostlythe older generation. And it's
just because, you know, they'repast that age of having a filter
and giving a crap aboutoffending anybody, you know, no,
I can't wait to be that agewhere you just don't have to
lie. Just don't give a crap, youknow?

Exactly. So, so did your friends, your church
family other like how did theyhelp? or, or, you know, say that
you are batshit crazy typescenario, right?
Like, how did that fall throughthe A through the twins, first
of a lot of people have nevereven heard of this type of
adoption. And then be, you know,very soon thereafter, here you

(41:57):
have with another adoption fouryear old. So how did that work
with your family, church,friends.

Sara Bratt (42:05):
So we were still going to my mom's my parents old
church. They were reallysupportive. But it was in
Seville, which is a very kind ofold school, very white town. Not
too far from Lodi, which is kindof the home of the some Grand

(42:28):
Wizard of some KKK. I don't knowif that's still true. But
growing up, we knew that thatwas the case in Lodi. And so we
ended up moving to a church thatwas in Medina, which I don't
know, maybe had five blackpeople. I mean, it's really not
diverse at all, but a churchthat we felt a little more
comfortable in. So I think they,the church itself wants to be

(42:58):
supportive. I do think thatthere's good intentions there.
Um, but you know, they did thesame kind of thing that they
would do if there was a newbaby. So there was a meal train,
which was great, honestly, thatwas very helpful. Um, but like,
cooking was the least of ourconcerns.

At that point, right. There wasn't grub hub,
or, you know, Uber Eats backthen. But that was like the low
priority of

Sara Bratt (43:24):
it was a low priority. Yes. And honestly, I
don't know. Because our kidswere such an extreme situation.
I don't know if it would have tobe a specialized person that I
would trust to kind of sit withthem be with them. Just to give
Mike and I break. That's thedifficult part because my mom
would come over. Because at onepoint, I broke my foot because I

(43:48):
was carrying Caroline down thestairs and she was starting to
fit. And Mr. stair broke myfoot. And Caroline looked at me
and said, You make me eggs now.
So not she was going to be aserial killer for sure. Um, now
she's my easiest kid.

But I need to go the hospital

Sara Bratt (44:07):
but right, like no, I'm not making you eggs you
psycho. Oh, well, I remember Ihad to go to the orthopedist for
my foot. So my mom came over andsat with the kids and she calls
me Well, I don't want to I don'twant to alarm you but Charlotte
almost started a fire. She threwa lamp at me while it was
plugged in. And there was alittle some flames coming out of

(44:29):
the outlet. I'm like, great.
Yeah, that sounds about right.
Yeah.

Like that's like a normal day mom.
Right.

Sara Bratt (44:35):
Right. Exactly. Why

This is my every day. Yeah. Yes. It's like
mothering, you know, times fourfor you like yeah,

Sara Bratt (44:42):
it was it was super intense. It was like being
thrown in the deep end. Notknowing how to swim.

No swimming.
Yeah,

Sara Bratt (44:49):
nothing, nothing.
Wow. But we all survived. So Ido think with the church, though
there is a big push. You know,the James one. I think it's 127
says You know, part of being aChristian is caring for the
orphan and the widow. So there'sthere's big pushes in the church
of like wanting people to adopt,which is great, I think, I think
that that's really a goodmessage. However, then you have

(45:11):
people who are going into thiskind of with the wrong
intentions short with this kindof savior complex, right. And
then when it gets really hard,and you know, God's not coming
in to like, save the day andmake it easy, and the church
doesn't know what to do tosupport you, then you're letting

(45:33):
people you jumped ship, youknow, and that's a lot of what
these, these disruptions arefrom, wow. And another thing
that, you know, the churchpushes, there's this orphan
Sunday in November. Now, I usedto be super involved in orphan
Sunday, I was like, you know,trying to get it in my church
talking about it. But I've donesome more readings since then,

(45:57):
and more learning and educatingmyself. And the numbers that
we're putting out to the church,whether it's like 140 7 million
orphans around the world, whatI've learned is that that's
inaccurate. So what we wouldconsider orphans or kids with
zero parents that are stillliving, right, a lot of these
countries, they consider orphansif they're a single parent. So

(46:21):
if one parent leaves or oneparent dies, it's really hard to
be a single parent and a lot ofthese countries because they
don't, you're not set up forthat. You're not like you can
drop your kid off at daycare.
Right? Right, right. So that'swhat happened with all my girls,
they their mothers are stillliving, what our fathers had
left, and left the moms in a badsituation where they couldn't

(46:46):
afford to take care of theirchildren, or they're forced into
that situation. So I think whatthe church needs to do is
partner up with organizationsthat are in country already in
all these countries, there arealready people on the ground in
the country doing the work offamily preservation. So instead
of, you know, white, mostlywhite Americans coming in to

(47:06):
save the day, to save thechildren from destitute,
destitute lives. We need to besupporting organizations on the
ground to make it so these momscan keep their children giving
them micro loans to start asmall business coming in

And keeping that family unit together.
Right. A lot of these moms don'twant to give up their children.

Sara Bratt (47:32):
Absolutely, yes. So debate, I mean, your mom, you
know, you, there's nothing inthe world more important than
your child. That's like beingput in that situation where
you're that desperate, you're inthat desperate situation that
you have to place your child foradoption. That's horrifying, it
is horrifying.

And all sorts of reasons for it. Right? You
know, there's all sorts ofreasons. And so there, there may
be a time and a place where thatis the best for the child where
the child, you know,

Sara Bratt (48:06):
you're the mother and for the mother. Yeah.

I'm sure that that percentage compared to if
the mom had the right resources,right, for parents and Father,
father, mother, to have theright resources would have the
financial means would havesupport would have that
community aspect where thatwould be there. So maybe after
this, you can send some of thereputable places that you know

(48:30):
of that we can also share withthe audience. And just educate
so if you know her, this is justabout gentle learning,
compassionate learning, comingfrom a place of understanding
and, and there may be thingsthat I that I may not understand
about your choices, or you maynot understand about my choices,
but it's about the compassionatelistening and the non

(48:52):
judgmental, we're all fast tojudge. But we have to do
something with that judgment,whether it's a bad judgment, and
we say, you know what, okay, Ican't help neccessarily my
judgment, but I'm gonna starttraining my mind. Right, think
differently, and act differentlyand speak differently. And in
that will go a long way in theworld today and those pieces of

(49:13):
again, you know, I grew up inthe church, and that'll be a
whole nother podcast of, of mychurch experience. But the
church has so many goodintentions and absolutely coming
out of the gates but often don'thave the infrastructure or long
term solution to supportfamilies, and make that a really
healthy reality for family. So Iget that.

Sara Bratt (49:36):
I'm gonna think like before, before George Floyd was
more murdered right before that.
There was a family that wasapparently a famous YouTube
family. I never heard of them,but I also don't really like
spend time on YouTube. Why not?
Yeah, I got all this free timeon my hands to just like, hang
out on YouTube. But apparentlythey were like a family that

(49:58):
kind of put their whole life outthere and She would do like
cleaning tips. And I don't know,cook. I don't know what she did.
But anyway, I know they talkedabout their youngest son was
adopted special needs adoptedfrom China. And she apparently
had been a nurse in the past. Idon't know if she still was a
nurse. But anyway, that's whythey pursued especially it's

(50:20):
Chinese adoption. Okay, soapparently, they have him for a
couple years, and then justrecently disrupted his adoption.
So they were being just reallyattacked by the public that had
always kind of followed theirvideos because she essentially
like, they were monetizedvideos. And people felt like she

(50:40):
was exploiting him in order toget money for these videos. And
so a lot of people reaching outto me just for my opinion on it.
And I was like, you know, I'mgathering information on the
story. And my plan was to kindof make a video on Facebook
about it, or just like mythoughts on it. But then the

(51:00):
whole George Floyd thinghappened. But I just think like,
I know, I'm friends withfamilies that have had to
disrupt adoptions. Andobviously, I'm in a position and
many friends of mine are in aposition of raising children
from disrupted adoptions, right.
And I just think we need to giveeach other grace, we just need
to understand that we neverknow, their journey, we never

(51:21):
will never know the full extentof what was going on in that
household. You know, what, whythey made the choices they made,
and it's really none of ourbusiness. And yet, I think as
Americans, we're in this culturewhere we think, oh, you told me
this about your life, then you Ideserve to know everything else.
Absolutely. And it's real easyto jump to judgment and be like,

(51:45):
well, then why did you adoptthis kid if you weren't willing
to do whatever it took to? Well,we don't know the whole story,
right. And I know, like forCelia, that really traumatized
her, and it was terrible. Butthank God, she's not with that
family anymore. Right? So thankGod that she is with us, and
that she will continue to liveher life in a loving supportive

(52:06):
family,

versus one where you're being pitted
against biological children. Amom doesn't want you there.
Right? And who does, but is nowdealing with all of the
emotionality of that familyunit. So,

Sara Bratt (52:23):
yeah. So I just think we need to as a society
realize that we were never goingto know the whole story. And all
we need to do as women is tolike, support one another, and
be like, I'm sure that wasreally hard. And I'm really
sorry that you're walkingthrough that journey right now.
What can I do? What can we do tohelp you?

And that is the heart of this podcast. And
this movement is, I am not inyour shoes. And who am I to say
this is how you should do it.
I've had friends who have hadabortions, who have gone through
divorces who have had affairs,who have gone through life
things and all I show is love,like love, they've people feel

(53:01):
judgment all over the place,people shame all over the place,
we put it on ourselves. And forthat human compassion, of love,
and understanding and showing upempathy. And years ago, I put a
tattoo in Hebrew on my foot, andit says unconditional love. And

(53:22):
for me, that was a constantreminder that I want my feet and
my essence to be a foundation ofunconditional love. And first
for myself if I can walk inunforgiveness, unforgiveness
toward myself, and unconditionallove toward myself, that I can
allow it to flow to others. AndI think that piece of work quick
to say, Well, I knew this aboutyou. You said like I knew this

(53:46):
about you. So why did you do X,Y or Z? And we're not in
people's hearts, mind emotions.
We're not in their homes. Wedon't know what happens when the
doors close when we leave. Andempathy can go a long way. So I
think you said it really well.
Definitely. What's a piece ofadvice that you would give to
families who are consideringdisrupted adoption?

Sara Bratt (54:11):
So I definitely would not do a disruptive
adoption if you've never adoptedbefore. Oh, interesting. Because
it's like,

don't do what you did.

Sara Bratt (54:21):
Yeah, don't do it. I did. Yeah. Do as I say not as I
do. Unless you know, you have abackground in working with
troubled youth or you have abackground and developmental
psych. You definitely need toform a team because it takes a
village for any kid, especiallya kid that's come from trauma.

(54:41):
You need to have a psychiatristor therapist, you know, in Ohio,
you guys have to have amazingresources. There's something
called the posted optionssubsidy. I don't know it's, it's
called pass.

Well. Yeah, we'll get them out as well.

Sara Bratt (54:57):
Sure. So that provides 10 thousand dollars per
child per year for therapeuticservices that aren't otherwise
covered under your insurance, aswith a lot of these services are
so specialized that insurancecompanies haven't quite caught
up yet with mental healthservice systems. So I would
definitely, if you're in Ohio,look into that, if you're in

(55:19):
another state in the UnitedStates, I would Google post
adoption support, and then yourstate and see what there is out
there. We cannot do it byyourself, you cannot do it
alone, you're going to needhelpers in your village to help
you. And if you're looking for adisrupted adoption, I suggest

(55:41):
starting, there's a reputableagency out there. I think
they're based in Utah. And ifyou go on Facebook and search,
Second Chance adoptions, it isjust a part of their business
that they do through theiradoption agencies. So they
charge the first adoptive familya fee and the new adoptive

(56:03):
family fee. They vet everybodysay you have lawyers involved,
make sure everybody's followingthe rules following the laws.
Again, it's not ideal for thechild involved. But if there
needs to be another placement,you need to go through an
agency, you need to have anattorney involved. You need to

(56:24):
do everything on the up and upso that you're completely
covered legally, when it comesto the paperwork and the
documentation.

Now, how did you feel? Because I know that
you guys went from theCleveland, Ohio area to
Philadelphia to Virginia, howwas that transition with your
community? Because you're sayingit takes a village. So you are
leaving your family? I thinkyour mom is still in Ohio. So
how did that transition go foryou guys, as you move from state

(56:52):
to state,

Sara Bratt (56:53):
it was really difficult moving to Philly. The
first time I ever my husband andI had ever really been living
out of Ohio without a familysupport system. So that was
tricky. We were lucky to find agood church for a little while.
And I was lucky to get involvedin a Facebook group that was a
regional Philly area adoptivemoms group. So that was a huge

(57:19):
blessing. That's where I metKristine, who's on your team.
And so I got connected with alot of really great friends
through that. I'm at the pointin my life where I don't have
time to be us with people. So Ifound the best friends for me
personally are other adoptiveparents.

Awesome.
Because they already get that.
Yeah, real life. Right? Right.
Yes, yes, they

Sara Bratt (57:42):
get the hard stuff.
They're not going to judge youwhen you're like, Hey, I know we
were going to come over, but soand so just pee themselves. And
you know, they're not going tojudge you and something crazy.
Right. And so I actually had anamazing group of friends and
Philly, that was a huge supportgroup. But I will say the mental
health services were terrible.
There's just wasn't any accessto anything. Okay, that was

(58:05):
good. I think if we lived inPhilly, it would have been
better, but we were like an hourand a half north of it. So we're
pretty rural. You're, um, andthen in Virginia, we've met some
great friends. Um, but and Iwould say the mental health is
definitely better here inVirginia. What we don't have is,

(58:25):
we've never ever found this pastgrant, something like that, with
the money that support that.
Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Well,that would be really, we didn't
realize how good we had it inOhio, as far as back, right. I
know. I know. Trust me, everytime there's a job transition.
I'm always like to find anythingin Ohio.

You're gonna think you're on the lam like
you're going you know, just runout here.

Sara Bratt (58:50):
Well, there's so many military here where we live
because we're close to Quantico.
And so people just assume we'rea military. We're like, oh,
we're from Ohio. But we movedhere from Philly. They're like,
Oh, you're military? And I'mlike, No, no, we're not like
this crazy.

Crazy word is a hot mess. And that I and for
those of listening. Sara's likehashtag for years has been hot
mess. Yo, like, I think he had ablog about it. You

Sara Bratt (59:13):
are blessed hot mess.

Yeah. When I met Chad, he was just like, you
are a hot mess. He always got myhot train. Yeah, I don't like a
hot mess. And he's so like,methodical and organized. And
linear thinking, ative, andentrepreneur and my mind's all
over and squirrel brain and Ihave seventeen things out at

(59:34):
once. And he's just like, Youare such a hot mess every time
he called me and I thought ofyou. So, but I do want to share
a little bit of a fun storybetween you and I have some zip
lining that you and if

Sara Bratt (59:49):
you see this bruise on my arm right here. It's so
reminiscent of our time togetherat the vine. This happened when
trying we were spent an hourtrying to catch these three
feral cats that I was fosteringthat I ended up having to get
rabies shots because of Oh Lord,again, like

Jennifer Malcolm (01:00:07):
there's never a dull moment. So anyone in
Sarah's life it is never a dulldull moment in Sarah's life. So
I went to Philadelphia andChristine, on my team and Sarah,
we decided that we're going todo some team bonding and go zip
lining, you want to do want toshare a little bit of those
experiences?

Sara Bratt (01:00:24):
Well, let's just start with this. You and
Christine are in better physicalshape than I am. And at that
time, especially, because I had,I think I was only six months
out from like, major abdominalsurgery that like I almost died
from it was really intense. Andso I have basically been on a
couch for six weeks. And so Ihad no muscle mass whatsoever.

(01:00:45):
Like everything haddeteriorated. No core strength,
nothing but I was like yes,zipline a great idea. Because I
forget how old I am. I forgetthat I'm like in my late 30s so

for clarity was deplaning and high ropes
course. So it was

like, that's where we got in trouble is the high
ropes necessarily the freefalling? it Yeah, it was the the
other stuff. So you guys weredoing really good at it. But
like they I remember right awayknowing it was a problem because
they like strapped me in. And Iwent up to like the first thing
and I was I knew that the strapwas like put on wrong. And my

(01:01:21):
lady business was like, notcomfortable whatsoever. And I
remember telling you that I waslike going to injure my vagina
like this just was not gonna endwell. This was not going to be a
good thing. Oh, we survived. Aswe like walked around, like
walked across you and Christine.
We're doing really well. But Iwas in the front.

I think I think each one I think there was
three major things and we votedlike each of us would do and I
think they got progressivelyharder. Yes. And we each of us
were supposed to be the leaderon on one of those. One of those
I think you might get stuck withthe hardest

leading No, I did the first one which was supposed
to be the hardest because youguys went on to the harder ones.
And I was like peace I'm notdoing that. Like I'm scarred for
life already. So I'm one of theropes things I fell and I had to
I caught myself with my likearmpits and ended up bruising my
arm up really bad. And then, atone point, I had a full on panic

(01:02:19):
attack because I was like,

I remember

I was like crying and you can't just like get down
because you're like on thisthing and that you have to
finish it like you're screwed.
If so one of the workers waslike trying to talk me down and
call me down and you guys arelike you're doing great. And
there were like, two kids behindour group that were like Jesus.
Are you stupid old people? Likewhy do you think that you can do
these things? You can do thingsNEEMO you think you can?

It was one of the best afternoons that
girlfriends out? just laughingand I'm afraid of heights. So I
struggle with some of it. Ah,Christine was a rock star. I
think she was like part monkeygoing through everything and
like swinging from the treestype scenario. Yeah, but I just
remember laughing so hard. Andyour your candor, your your

(01:03:11):
intonations, your tears, you'regoing to break my vagina on
this. Whereas what Yeah,

yeah. permanent damage. But yeah.

So I also have a note here that you are very
passionate. And I wanted toclose with this about social
social justice. I'm active inmany groups and wanted you to
kind of share some of those thatyou are passionate about and
involved in.

So of course, you know, when I adopted my
children, I was so naive aboutrace issues. And the past 10
years have been a major learningjourney for me. I've seen a lot
I've experienced a lot throughtheir eyes. And I've just I've
been in a posture of sittingback listening and learning for

(01:04:02):
10 years, right. And now, it'sjust such an amazing time in our
society where there's so muchinformation and so many
resources out there. So manygreat black voices are talking
to us and teaching us andtelling us things that we need
to be learning. And there's somany great books out there that

(01:04:23):
we can educate ourselves on. I'mreading one right now called
white fragility. That's really,really good. And that is written
by a white person for whitepeople. Wow. So that one is just
a neat, interesting perspectiveabout like, why is it so hard
for us as as white people tolook introspectively and in our

(01:04:45):
life experience, and see how ourexperience is so different than
other people's experience? Whyare we so defensive,

egocentric?

Yes, totally, totally. And why are we not
willing to listen to othervoices and listen Other people's
perspectives and theirexperiences and be willing to
learn from that. And then I'malso something that it's just
kind of been a God thing. Godlaid on my heart, my husband's
heart simultaneously. But wedidn't know that we were kind of

(01:05:15):
like on our own personal journeyseparately about the LGBTQ
community. And so both of uswere kind of like separately
doing some research online andreading and really praying about
it. And then at one point, Ibrought it up to him. And he was
like, that's really weird,because I've been feeling the
same pole to really learn aboutthis. Now, I knew at that time,

(01:05:36):
we had nobody in our lives. Thatwas gay, we didn't know anybody.
Um, it was either right beforeor right after we adopted the
twins, the kids. And, um, so wejust we, we learned and we
became allies, and we learn howto get involved. I have been
involved with a group calledfree mom hugs, where we go to

(01:06:00):
different pride events. And wehave shirts to say free mom
hugs, and we hug people love it.
And it is the most spiritualexperience I've ever had in my
life. I feel closer to Jesusdoing that, than I do doing
anything else. Wow. I feel likeit's such a, I just feel so
blessed to be able to do that.

(01:06:25):
Because I hug these people. AndI tell them, I love you. Right?
Because that's what a mom wouldsay, right? I love you, you are
enough, you are perfect. You aremade perfectly. And these. I
mean, you have kids up to 40year old men sobbing in your
arms, saying, I my mom hasn'ttalked to me for years, my

(01:06:48):
parents have disowned me. Myparents said accept me, but
don't accept my lifestylechoices. There's always it's a
conditional, always notunconditional. So it's just it's
been one of the greatest joys ofmy life to be able to do that.
And it's interesting lookingback on it. Because now you

(01:07:08):
know, 10 years later, I can seewhy God put this on my heart.
There's been so many experiencesin my life. People that are best
friends of ours, things thathave happened, we have a best
friend, couple, the husband andwife are going through a divorce
because he is gay. He grew up ina very extreme, fundamental

(01:07:31):
Baptist Church, right. And heknew he would go to hell. That's
what he was always told. And hethought he could pray it away.
And at 40 years old, kind ofjust about four years old can
realize this isn't going away,like. So it's been neat, kind of
like we were already in advocacywork. And so he knew Mike and I

(01:07:53):
were safe, he knew that we werealways going to love him no
matter what. So it's just beensuch a cool thing to look back
and be like, okay, God, I see. Isee why you were late. I'm glad
I listened. You know,

I love it. No.
And that, again, is the essenceof this podcast, this movement
is to love is to share love, tonot judge to you. And it's not
about giving up beliefs. It'snot about a Unitarian society,
or we often believe it's justbeing so kind and accepting of
other people's beliefs, theirchoices. And, you know, I talked

(01:08:30):
about this on another podcastwhere, you know, if your choices
harm me or your choices, or mychildren or the safety issue,
obviously, those boundaries arehealthy and needed. Beyond that,
just there is not there's somuch judgment. You and I have
been in in the church of do'sand don'ts. You know, I've been
in my entire life. Yes. I'mpassionate about my faith. I'm

(01:08:53):
passionate about my walk. I'mnot passionate about the
judgment. The you have to dothis or the lack of
understanding the lack ofcompassion, the lack of how
Jesus moved and talked and lovedand spoke and just accepted and
that he's of. We need more ofthat. So I might get a mom. Mom

(01:09:17):
love. I'll go hug a mom shirt.

Yeah, free mom hugs man. Each state has their own
regional group now. So you cango on Facebook and get involved
with that. The girl the womanwho is in charge kind of started
the movement. Her name is SarahCunningham. She is from Oklahoma
City. And her son came out asgay and she was very involved in

(01:09:43):
the church and just really kindof battled what that means for
her what that means for herfaith and her son, and came to
the conclusion of I love my sonand God doesn't make mistakes.
And this isn't a choice that myson is making and I love him.
I'm going to do whatever I canto learn And support him. So she
started doing this on her own.
And it's just exploded. And now,Jamie Lee Curtis is involved and

(01:10:06):
she's bought the movie rightsand she's going to be making a
movie about this is going to bea documentary coming out about
it.

And I will make sure I know that Sara touch
on a lot of different resourcesabout the adoption issues about
learning and education, aboutrace, about the movement in the
LBGT queue way as well. So we'llmake sure that we make all those
resources available as well. Anddo you have any other final

(01:10:37):
thoughts before we wrap this up?

No, I'm just I'm proud of you. And I'm so happy
that you're doing this and I'mjust thrilled that we got the
opportunity to virtually hang

it's only a minute ago especially during
COVID separation time, so it

wasn't 11am I would have had an amoreto sour

and that that would be always welcome. So with
you. You always say I'm gonnaget my old lady.

Yeah, sour so

well, I want to say thanks for coming. Thanks
to her the listeners for beinghere today. And this is Jennasi
Speaks where every woman haa story and every story matte
s. We are very passionate abut this and we want to spread
he love and the joy and andhe acceptance for all women
ll walks of life, and we can't wit to touch base with you n
xt time. Thanks. Subscribe tohe Jennasis Movement to emp

(01:11:28):
wer women's voices and reclaimthe power over your own narrat

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Our Blessed Hot Mess Adoption Journey - Jennifer with Sarah Bratt