October 24, 2024 • 23 mins
Award-winning playwright José Rivera brings both his writing and directing talents to New Jersey Repertory Company’s production, Your Name Means Dream. Rivera’s play explores the imagined highs and lows of artificial intelligence through the lens of healthcare–telling the story of Aislin, an aging woman who is being taken care of by Stacy, an A.I. entity.
Rivera may be most widely-known for his work in film. He earned an Oscar nomination for his screenplay of 2004’s The Motorcycle Diaries, and he was recently tapped to write the upcoming remake of the 1987 film, La Bamba. He sat down with the Jersey Arts Podcast to discuss his play, writing for stage and screen, and roller coaster that is show business.
Thanks for listening!
- Subscribe to The Jersey Arts Podcast in your favorite podcast player.
The Jersey Arts Podcast is one medium of Feature Stories on Discover Jersey Arts (jerseyarts.com), where articles and videos also cover New Jersey’s vibrant arts and entertainment scene.
Discover Jersey Arts is presented by ArtPride New Jersey. The program was co-founded by, and is currently supported by funds from, the New Jersey State Council on the Arts. Additional support for JerseyArts.com content is provided by the National Endowment for the Arts.
- Subscribe to the Discover Jersey Arts' weekly e-newsletter to have stories delivered to your inbox.
- Follow and contact us @jerseyarts on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Maddie Orton (00:02):
I'm Maddie Orton and you're listening to the
Jersey Arts Podcast.
Award-winning playwright JoseRivera brings both his writing
and directing talents to NewJersey Repertory Company's
production Your Name Means Dream.
Rivera's play explores theimagined highs and lows of
artificial intelligence throughthe lens of healthcare, telling
the story of Aislin, an agingwoman who is being taken care of
(00:24):
by Stacy an AI entity.
Rivera may be most widely knownfor his work in film.
He earned an Oscar nominationfor his screenplay of 2004's the
Motorcycle Diaries and wasrecently tapped to write the
upcoming remake of the 1987 filmLa Bamba.
Rivera sat down with the JerseyArts Podcast to discuss his
play writing for stage andscreen and the roller coaster
(00:48):
that is show business.
Take a listen.
Jose Rivera, thank you so muchfor joining me today.
I really appreciate it.
Jose Rivera (00:58):
Thank you, it's nice to be here.
Maddie Orton (01:00):
So you are both the playwright and director of
the upcoming production of YourName Means Dream at New Jersey
Repertory Company.
Can you tell us just a littlebit about the show?
Jose Rivera (01:09):
Yes, it's a two character play, full length play
about an older woman who livesalone and has medical problems
and a son who doesn't reallywant to take care of her, and a
son who doesn't really want totake care of her, but he's rich
and hires an AI robot to takecare of his mom, and the play is
(01:31):
the two of them.
It's their relationship and howit changes over time and what
they learn about each other andthat kind of thing.
Maddie Orton (01:40):
So where did the idea of exploring AI through the
lens of aging come for you?
Jose Rivera (01:46):
Yeah, I mean it's probably about five years ago I
was thinking about.
I mean, I'm in my 60s, so I'malways thinking about age and
you know, and AI was becomingfive years ago a really hot
topic and it was still fresh andnot well understood and I
thought this is reallyinteresting.
(02:08):
I think this is the next bigthing to sort of hit the culture
, and I did think as I growolder, what I wouldn't want is
to be at the mercy of machineryand not have a human being take
care of me and you know I havetwo grown kids and not have a
human being take care of me.
And you know I have two grownkids and they have their own,
you know, lives and stuff andsiblings that live far away, and
(02:29):
I thought, hmm, what, what,what would happen to me if I had
no one but a machine to takecare of me?
And so you know, a lot ofwriters sort of write about what
they fear the most.
So that was what I was hearingthe most and the play was really
(02:52):
a way to explore that.
How could that feel?
Maddie Orton (02:53):
like, and what would that be like?
How?
Jose Rivera (02:55):
did you research for the piece?
It's funny, I research.
When I work in film, I tend towork in subjects that I know
nothing about, so I have to do alot of research subjects that I
know nothing about, so I haveto do a lot of research.
For this I did very littleresearch.
I sort of went with my gutinstincts on what AI would feel
like and be like, you know, onceit gets incredibly advanced.
So actually I mean I'd readsome articles but I kind of
(03:20):
relied on a lifetime of watchingscience fiction movies, kind of
relied on a lifetime ofwatching science fiction movies.
You know, and robots have beenin film since, you know, really
the early 1900s, and so therewas a lot to sort of draw on in
terms of like the commonmythology of what we imagine
(03:41):
robots will be like.
And you know, I wrote the playfor two dear friends, so I
crafted the characters kind ofto reflect their personalities,
and that was really the extentof my so-called research.
Maddie Orton (03:58):
That's so interesting.
I mean, I've seen that in thepast.
You've mentioned that sciencefiction has played a big role in
your development, I assume as awriter, but also as a person.
You watched Twilight Zone, Ithink I read.
Jose Rivera (04:11):
Oh yeah, and that was my favorite TV show, yeah.
Maddie Orton (04:14):
So I imagine that this is sort of, in a way,
well-trod territory for you, butalso just the way that it's
developed so rapidly.
I think the specifics of whatAI could entail are kind of new
and for me, like I'm also veryscared of this for better or
worse.
How did you sort of drill downon what aspects of AI felt the
(04:38):
most pressing to you, andespecially, I guess, within the
narrative of healthcare andespecially, I guess, within the
narrative of health care.
Jose Rivera (04:47):
Yeah, I mean, my assumption was that this AI
would always and only tell thetruth, so she wouldn't have
conspiracy theories or badinformation, like you know, she
wouldn't tell.
You know the older woman tolike drink Clorox bleach to take
(05:08):
care of her viruses, you know,and that her, but she does
approach medicine through a moreholistic lens.
You know she's really about,like Aileen the older woman,
getting rid of her pills anddoing yoga and nutrition and
exercise in order to take careof her basic medical issues.
(05:29):
But you know, I did stay awayfrom anything that felt like
really trendy medicine or trendybad medicine.
You know that we hear about allthe time.
I really wanted like to createa character the AI to be like an
(05:50):
incredibly good friend who iscompassionate and honest and not
judgmental and really has herclients' best interests.
Maddie Orton (06:02):
In creating this?
Did you come to any sort ofpeace with the idea of AI?
Jose Rivera (06:13):
or are you still as anxious as I am?
Well, you know it's funny.
I kind of like played bothsides.
For instance, the relationshipwith Aileen and Stacey.
The AI is, in the finalanalysis is, in the final
analysis, amazingly beneficialto both of them.
There's a good symbioticrelationship between the two.
So there's that story.
Yet we hear occasionalnewscasts of the AI in the
(06:38):
larger world.
You know some AI smothering aman in his sleep.
We hear about, you know,american ballet theater hiring
an AI ballerina.
That's interesting First time.
There's a group called SkinJobs that are convinced that,
you know, ai are going to be ourmasters.
(06:59):
So the play makes those pointsas well as the kind of like kind
of loving, compassionaterelationship that the AI has as
a way to really show thecomplexity of this thing, that
(07:19):
it's not evil or good, and thereare cases in the play of real
evil.
And then the play demonstratesa kind of benign aspect.
It's all speculative, like allgood science fiction.
It's all like, yeah, maybe.
You know it could be, we don'tknow, and it's just sort of like
(07:43):
.
My feeling is like as a theaterartist, you know my job is to
present something that willexcite conversations.
You know, somebody once told mea long time ago that modern art
is not about answeringquestions, but asking the right
questions.
So that's what I want the playto do is excite the right
(08:04):
questions.
Maddie Orton (08:10):
So, as we discussed, you're both the
playwright and the director ofthis piece.
Do you find that thoseexperiences work similar parts
of your brain, for lack of abetter description or is
directing just such a completelydifferent way of interacting
with the play?
Jose Rivera (08:25):
I would say the goals are the same, which are to
tell the story, same which areto tell the story.
The play tells the story andthen, as a director, I try to
get the actors to tell the story.
Now, that said, it is a verydifferent use of creative muscle
(08:52):
to direct actors and designersand to, like, make this thing.
We're making this thing inthree dimensions, you know, and
it takes a lot of people and ittakes a lot of, you know,
coordination and communicationon my part to make sure that my
vision is understood and can beexecuted.
So that is a very different setof skills as opposed to the
(09:16):
very solitary and inward-lookingactivity of writing a play.
Maddie Orton (09:22):
Because this is one of your newer plays.
There's only been one otherproduction of this.
Are you finding more elementsin the material?
As you direct it and see it upon its feet a second time.
Jose Rivera (09:34):
Yes, I am.
Actually we did it before withthe same actors in West Virginia
, and so the team has now movedon to New Jersey.
I am finding that I'm learningnew things and hearing new
things, and it's been more thana year since the actors have
performed in the play, so inthat year, you know, they have
(09:57):
grown and their approach to thework is deeper and I hear things
, you know I think their work isdeeper than it was in West
Virginia and so, yeah, I thinkwe are experiencing the play in
a very different way and andit's great because you know we
(10:19):
we come with already a huge likefountain of knowledge and now
we can be, we can fine tune, youknow what we're discovering and
make it even stronger andclearer and funnier and spots
and that kind of thing.
Maddie Orton (10:36):
As the playwright, are there moments where you
think to yourself like this isnot what I put in the text, but
I'm seeing it in a different way, on its feet and it's sort of
like I assume the actors breathea different life into it.
Or you're able to pull momentsout as the director that are not
specifically there but aremaybe sort of an overtone for
lack of a better word that sortof developed.
Jose Rivera (10:56):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's.
You know, actors will alwayssurprise you.
Actors will always bring anenergy or a rhythm to something
you've never expected, and therecan be so many discoveries in
that, you know, in both subtleand in very overt ways.
Like, the most overt way inthis production is there's a
(11:16):
scene.
there can be so many discoveriesin that, you know, and both
subtle and in very overt ways,like the most overt way in this
production is there's a scenewhere Stacy the AI is hacked and
has a mental breakdown, and theway it's scripted is that she
just has this like stream ofconsciousness, rambling word
(11:37):
vomit of quotes from the Bible,from Shakespeare, from old
movies, from rap songs, whereshe just spews them out in
stream of consciousness form.
And that's what I wrote.
That's the text.
But Sarah, the actress whoplays the AI, took that and
turned it into a dance.
Maddie Orton (11:56):
Oh, wow.
Jose Rivera (11:57):
Not only is she speaking you know the Koran and
you know lines from ToniMorrison or whatever but she's
also dancing, wow, and she'salso, like the character we
established earlier, sort of anencyclopedia of dance styles.
So during her hacking she doeslike Bob Fosse, she does the
(12:19):
taps, she does hip hop, she doesthe Charleston, she does ballet
, she does some gymnastics andyou know, it's all part of like
the hacking moment and it'squite spectacular, I think.
But that's a great example oflike something that an actor
just brought to the play that Idid not invent, I just invented
(12:45):
the words and she created thislike choreographed nervous
breakdown.
Maddie Orton (12:52):
Oh my gosh, I love that so much.
You are perhaps most widelyknown as the Oscar nominated
screenwriter of the MotorcycleDiaries, and it was recently
announced that you're attachedto a new project as the
screenwriter of the upcomingremake of the 1987 film, la
(13:13):
Bamba.
So how does writing for screenfeel for you versus writing for
stage?
How did you get intoscreenwriting?
Jose Rivera (13:22):
Yeah, it's funny, I didn't really start screenplays
until after I was 40.
Okay, and I had been writingplays and doing television until
then.
And then I had, you know, I hadcreated a TV series was on ABC.
It was canceled after oneseason and I was so bitter about
the cancellation I said I'mnever doing TV again and I'm
(13:45):
only going to write movies.
And so I started my moviecareer then and you know I've
been lucky.
I've had a lot of.
You know I've been lucky.
I've had a lot of.
You know I've worked with somereally interesting people.
I mean, generally, 90 of filmsthat are written never get made
oh my gosh, if you look at mycareer, it's exactly 90.
(14:08):
So you know, I've I had, youknow, three or four films made
and I've written many, many more.
And so, you know, I tell myselfevery time I start a new film
project and I'm like, okay,you're a professional, you can
do this, you're going to do agreat job, Don't fall in love,
(14:28):
because it's going to break yourheart later.
And then every time I do, everytime I fall in love, every time
I get to the point where it'sGod, I love these characters and
I love this story and I lovethis movie.
And then you get your heartbroken.
So I'm hoping La Bamba does notfall into that category.
You know who knows, I mean I'mworking with, you know the
(14:51):
Richie Valens story sofascinating, sure, and you know,
luis Valdez's movie isbeautiful and he doesn't know
why we're doing a remake of it.
You know, if I were him, I'dwonder the same thing, because
he had created a perfect film.
I mean beautiful, remake of it.
If I were him, I'd wonder thesame thing, because he had
created a perfect film.
I mean beautiful.
However, the more research Idid into the life of Ritchie
(15:14):
Valens, the more I realized thatthe movie really missed a lot
of interesting things and thatthe reality was actually really
fascinating.
For instance, in the originalmovie, if you remember, richie
falls in love with Donna rightLike love at first sight, and
they meet in high school and,like you know, she's this cute,
giggly girl.
(15:34):
Well, in real life she was atroublemaker who was always in
detention, she was alwayssmoking in the girls' room and
she was a bit of a rebel.
That's great.
And the first time they met shewas with her boyfriend oh my
gosh, you know.
And Richie still liked andstarted.
Richie cornered her at theparty and started serenading her
(15:56):
, singing a song just for her,and it just.
That was it for the oldboyfriend.
He you know, those things, thosedetails, made me fall in love
with this story.
Maddie Orton (16:07):
And then Motorcycle Diaries.
How did that come about?
Jose Rivera (16:10):
Yeah.
So I was sitting at homeminding my own business, my
phone running, and it was mymanager, rick, who's been my
manager for like 35 years, andhe said hey, they're looking for
a writer to write theMotorcycle Diaries.
Are you interested?
Should I?
Should I send you up for this?
And I hadn't read themotorcycle diaries, either in
Spanish or English, and I didn'tknow much about it.
(16:31):
I knew something about CheGulotta and Rick said and this
Brazilian director, walter Salas, is attached, and that's what
piqued my interest, becauseWalter's Film, central film
central station is was nominatedfor an Academy award and it's
one of the most beautiful filmsyou'll ever see.
It's just, you know, likeamazing.
(16:54):
So I said, yes, yes, send me upfor this.
And so I ended up meetingWalter for lunch in Beverly
Hills.
Maddie Orton (17:03):
That sounds so cool.
I love that yeah.
Jose Rivera (17:06):
It's so cliche oh it's wonderful, though.
Maddie Orton (17:09):
That sounds so cool.
I love that.
Jose Rivera (17:10):
Yeah, it's so cliche, oh, it's wonderful,
though it's so cool.
And I kept thinking to myselfif he is not like the film, the
film is like beautiful andgenerous and smart and poetic.
If he's none of those things,I'm going to hate this guy.
And then he's everything inthat film oh, that's wonderful.
Yeah, just the most cultured,brilliant man and very sensitive
(17:32):
, but you know like, and a reallover of cinema, one of the few
people who can quote.
You know, godard, and it's notironic that's's amazing, yeah.
Yeah and anyway.
So Walter and I hit it offperfectly, and part of it was
that our backgrounds are sodifferent.
Like his father was anambassador oh wow, he was the
(17:55):
Brazilian ambassador to Franceand to the United States.
So Walter lived in the Statesand in France and Brazil.
My father was a janitor, youknow, my father scrubbed floors,
you know.
So we came from like completelydifferent backgrounds and I
think he found my backgroundkind of charming, I found his
background kind of charming, andso we kind of met in the middle
(18:18):
and, yeah, by the end, by theend of lunch, he had hired me.
He had said you want to do this?
And I said, yes, I want to doit.
And so that's how it started.
Maddie Orton (18:27):
It must be so surreal to know that 90% of the
screenplays you make will notget made.
But you've also been nominatedfor an Oscar.
I mean that just feels likesuch tremendous gambling, such a
good return on investment, buttremendous emotional gamble turn
(18:49):
on investment, but it's atremendous like emotional gamble
.
Jose Rivera (18:50):
Yeah, I think.
Um.
Well, I mean, you know, afterthe nomination, that's when most
of my work came.
It's hard to manage like every.
Suddenly you know dreamworksthat wanted nothing to do with
me.
Suddenly you know they're onthe phone you know, we've got a
project for you.
you're the the perfect writerfor this.
I'm like, yes, I'm the samewriter I was six months ago.
You didn't care, and so, yeah,I had a lot of offers and a lot
(19:12):
of things.
But you know, and people likeme are hired because we come
with an award or something andit takes the risk out of it.
That's the only reason.
It's not because I was a betterwriter after the motorcycle
virus, it's that I was less of arisk to the business.
Yet that didn't prevent theseparticular studios in not making
(19:38):
these films that I wrote.
You know, the thing I wrote forDreamWorks never got made.
You know I wrote a film forSony for Halle Berry that never
got made.
You know many, many films.
I worked for a British companycalled Velvet Octopus for a film
about Greenpeace.
That never got made.
So, yeah, I wrote a film forDisney about wolves.
(20:01):
You know that never got made.
So you just never know.
Maddie Orton (20:04):
It seems like you have a very like, well adjusted,
healthy attitude about this,though, because I I could see
just like staying up at nightruminating, but it also seems
like you've come to some sort ofI don't know what relationship
with the industry and and alsobalancing the theater, which was
your original love with film.
Jose Rivera (20:22):
This actually sounds really great yeah, I
credit fatherhood for that.
I think my kids and you knowthis, you know, as your child
gets older, you know they groundyou and it's hard to take shit
seriously when you have kidsLike you take them seriously,
you take their world seriously,like so seriously, you know, and
(20:46):
this other stuff seems like.
You know you can have a tantrum, mr Producer, but you know I
deal with my children and theyget my attention.
You don't, you know.
Maddie Orton (20:56):
Right.
Jose Rivera (20:57):
But you know I listen.
I've had, I've been fired fromseven movies.
I've had terrible reviews.
I've been replaced by actors.
They can't hurt me.
You know what I'm saying You'vedone it all, I can't, you can't
hurt me anymore.
I think what keeps me going isthat I do love writing.
Maddie Orton (21:16):
Yeah, clearly that's great.
Jose Rivera (21:18):
Yeah, when it's just me and the writing, I feel
fine.
It's just when it startsgetting into the land of
executives and you know, then itbecomes complicated.
Maddie Orton (21:29):
So would you have any advice for early career
playwrights, screenwriters?
Jose Rivera (21:35):
Yeah, don't do it.
No, Well, listen, if you can bepersuaded by someone telling
you not to do it, then youshouldn't do it.
You're going to do it.
You're going to do it.
If you want to do it, tellingyou not to do it, then you
shouldn't do it.
You're gonna do it.
You're gonna do it.
If you want to do it, you'regonna do it, no matter what I
say, what anyone says, if you'rein love with it, you have the
passion and the skill, thenyou're gonna do it.
(21:56):
And so my advice is like tojust think in the long term,
like if you're 25 and you'rejust starting out and you know,
just remember that you're in anapprenticeship that's going to
last your entire life long, thatyou're always going to learn
You're never going to know itall and that pace yourself and
(22:18):
remember it's.
You know, when the setbacks arenot the end of the world, that
there's always.
You know, like someone oncesaid, you know movies are like
trains If you miss one, there'salways another one coming.
That's great, and it's sort oflike that Like all right, you
get fired, Hopefully knock onwood, there's another one coming
(22:40):
, you know, Jump on that one.
And then, you know, get firedagain.
Maddie Orton (22:45):
I love that.
Well, Jose Rivera, thank you somuch for your time today.
I really appreciate it.
I hope everybody has a greatexperience with your Name.
Means Dream and best of luckwith everything.
Jose Rivera (22:57):
Thank you so much.
It's really great to talk toyou.
Maddie Orton (23:02):
Your Name Means Dream runs from October 31st
through November 24th at NewJersey Repertory Company.
For more information, visitNJRep.
org.
If you liked this episode, besure to give us a review,
subscribe and tell your friends.
A transcript of this podcast,as well as related content and
more about the arts in NewJersey, can be found on
JerseyArts.
com.
(23:22):
The Jersey Arts Podcast ispresented by Art Pride New
Jersey, advancing a state ofcreativity since 1986.
The show is co-founded by andcurrently supported by funds
from the New Jersey StateCouncil on the Arts, with
additional support from theNational Endowment for the Arts.
This episode was hosted,produced and edited by yours
truly, Maddie Orton.
Executive producers are JimAtkinson and Isaac Serna-Diez.
(23:44):
Special thanks to Jose Rivera.
I'm Maddie Orton for the JerseyArts Podcast.
Thanks for listening.
I'm Maddie Orton and you're listening to the
Jersey Arts Podcast.
Award-winning playwright JoseRivera brings both his writing
and directing talents to NewJersey Repertory Company's
production Your Name Means Dream.
Rivera's play explores theimagined highs and lows of
artificial intelligence throughthe lens of healthcare, telling
the story of Aislin, an agingwoman who is being taken care of
(00:24):
by Stacy an AI entity.
Rivera may be most widely knownfor his work in film.
He earned an Oscar nominationfor his screenplay of 2004's the
Motorcycle Diaries and wasrecently tapped to write the
upcoming remake of the 1987 filmLa Bamba.
Rivera sat down with the JerseyArts Podcast to discuss his
play writing for stage andscreen and the roller coaster
(00:48):
that is show business.
Take a listen.
Jose Rivera, thank you so muchfor joining me today.
I really appreciate it.
Jose Rivera (00:58):
Thank you, it's nice to be here.
Maddie Orton (01:00):
So you are both the playwright and director of
the upcoming production of YourName Means Dream at New Jersey
Repertory Company.
Can you tell us just a littlebit about the show?
Jose Rivera (01:09):
Yes, it's a two character play, full length play
about an older woman who livesalone and has medical problems
and a son who doesn't reallywant to take care of her, and a
son who doesn't really want totake care of her, but he's rich
and hires an AI robot to takecare of his mom, and the play is
(01:31):
the two of them.
It's their relationship and howit changes over time and what
they learn about each other andthat kind of thing.
Maddie Orton (01:40):
So where did the idea of exploring AI through the
lens of aging come for you?
Jose Rivera (01:46):
Yeah, I mean it's probably about five years ago I
was thinking about.
I mean, I'm in my 60s, so I'malways thinking about age and
you know, and AI was becomingfive years ago a really hot
topic and it was still fresh andnot well understood and I
thought this is reallyinteresting.
(02:08):
I think this is the next bigthing to sort of hit the culture
, and I did think as I growolder, what I wouldn't want is
to be at the mercy of machineryand not have a human being take
care of me and you know I havetwo grown kids and not have a
human being take care of me.
And you know I have two grownkids and they have their own,
you know, lives and stuff andsiblings that live far away, and
(02:29):
I thought, hmm, what, what,what would happen to me if I had
no one but a machine to takecare of me?
And so you know, a lot ofwriters sort of write about what
they fear the most.
So that was what I was hearingthe most and the play was really
(02:52):
a way to explore that.
How could that feel?
Maddie Orton (02:53):
like, and what would that be like?
How?
Jose Rivera (02:55):
did you research for the piece?
It's funny, I research.
When I work in film, I tend towork in subjects that I know
nothing about, so I have to do alot of research subjects that I
know nothing about, so I haveto do a lot of research.
For this I did very littleresearch.
I sort of went with my gutinstincts on what AI would feel
like and be like, you know, onceit gets incredibly advanced.
So actually I mean I'd readsome articles but I kind of
(03:20):
relied on a lifetime of watchingscience fiction movies, kind of
relied on a lifetime ofwatching science fiction movies.
You know, and robots have beenin film since, you know, really
the early 1900s, and so therewas a lot to sort of draw on in
terms of like the commonmythology of what we imagine
(03:41):
robots will be like.
And you know, I wrote the playfor two dear friends, so I
crafted the characters kind ofto reflect their personalities,
and that was really the extentof my so-called research.
Maddie Orton (03:58):
That's so interesting.
I mean, I've seen that in thepast.
You've mentioned that sciencefiction has played a big role in
your development, I assume as awriter, but also as a person.
You watched Twilight Zone, Ithink I read.
Jose Rivera (04:11):
Oh yeah, and that was my favorite TV show, yeah.
Maddie Orton (04:14):
So I imagine that this is sort of, in a way,
well-trod territory for you, butalso just the way that it's
developed so rapidly.
I think the specifics of whatAI could entail are kind of new
and for me, like I'm also veryscared of this for better or
worse.
How did you sort of drill downon what aspects of AI felt the
(04:38):
most pressing to you, andespecially, I guess, within the
narrative of healthcare andespecially, I guess, within the
narrative of health care.
Jose Rivera (04:47):
Yeah, I mean, my assumption was that this AI
would always and only tell thetruth, so she wouldn't have
conspiracy theories or badinformation, like you know, she
wouldn't tell.
You know the older woman tolike drink Clorox bleach to take
(05:08):
care of her viruses, you know,and that her, but she does
approach medicine through a moreholistic lens.
You know she's really about,like Aileen the older woman,
getting rid of her pills anddoing yoga and nutrition and
exercise in order to take careof her basic medical issues.
(05:29):
But you know, I did stay awayfrom anything that felt like
really trendy medicine or trendybad medicine.
You know that we hear about allthe time.
I really wanted like to createa character the AI to be like an
(05:50):
incredibly good friend who iscompassionate and honest and not
judgmental and really has herclients' best interests.
Maddie Orton (06:02):
In creating this?
Did you come to any sort ofpeace with the idea of AI?
Jose Rivera (06:13):
or are you still as anxious as I am?
Well, you know it's funny.
I kind of like played bothsides.
For instance, the relationshipwith Aileen and Stacey.
The AI is, in the finalanalysis is, in the final
analysis, amazingly beneficialto both of them.
There's a good symbioticrelationship between the two.
So there's that story.
Yet we hear occasionalnewscasts of the AI in the
(06:38):
larger world.
You know some AI smothering aman in his sleep.
We hear about, you know,american ballet theater hiring
an AI ballerina.
That's interesting First time.
There's a group called SkinJobs that are convinced that,
you know, ai are going to be ourmasters.
(06:59):
So the play makes those pointsas well as the kind of like kind
of loving, compassionaterelationship that the AI has as
a way to really show thecomplexity of this thing, that
(07:19):
it's not evil or good, and thereare cases in the play of real
evil.
And then the play demonstratesa kind of benign aspect.
It's all speculative, like allgood science fiction.
It's all like, yeah, maybe.
You know it could be, we don'tknow, and it's just sort of like
(07:43):
.
My feeling is like as a theaterartist, you know my job is to
present something that willexcite conversations.
You know, somebody once told mea long time ago that modern art
is not about answeringquestions, but asking the right
questions.
So that's what I want the playto do is excite the right
(08:04):
questions.
Maddie Orton (08:10):
So, as we discussed, you're both the
playwright and the director ofthis piece.
Do you find that thoseexperiences work similar parts
of your brain, for lack of abetter description or is
directing just such a completelydifferent way of interacting
with the play?
Jose Rivera (08:25):
I would say the goals are the same, which are to
tell the story, same which areto tell the story.
The play tells the story andthen, as a director, I try to
get the actors to tell the story.
Now, that said, it is a verydifferent use of creative muscle
(08:52):
to direct actors and designersand to, like, make this thing.
We're making this thing inthree dimensions, you know, and
it takes a lot of people and ittakes a lot of, you know,
coordination and communicationon my part to make sure that my
vision is understood and can beexecuted.
So that is a very different setof skills as opposed to the
(09:16):
very solitary and inward-lookingactivity of writing a play.
Maddie Orton (09:22):
Because this is one of your newer plays.
There's only been one otherproduction of this.
Are you finding more elementsin the material?
As you direct it and see it upon its feet a second time.
Jose Rivera (09:34):
Yes, I am.
Actually we did it before withthe same actors in West Virginia
, and so the team has now movedon to New Jersey.
I am finding that I'm learningnew things and hearing new
things, and it's been more thana year since the actors have
performed in the play, so inthat year, you know, they have
(09:57):
grown and their approach to thework is deeper and I hear things
, you know I think their work isdeeper than it was in West
Virginia and so, yeah, I thinkwe are experiencing the play in
a very different way and andit's great because you know we
(10:19):
we come with already a huge likefountain of knowledge and now
we can be, we can fine tune, youknow what we're discovering and
make it even stronger andclearer and funnier and spots
and that kind of thing.
Maddie Orton (10:36):
As the playwright, are there moments where you
think to yourself like this isnot what I put in the text, but
I'm seeing it in a different way, on its feet and it's sort of
like I assume the actors breathea different life into it.
Or you're able to pull momentsout as the director that are not
specifically there but aremaybe sort of an overtone for
lack of a better word that sortof developed.
Jose Rivera (10:56):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's.
You know, actors will alwayssurprise you.
Actors will always bring anenergy or a rhythm to something
you've never expected, and therecan be so many discoveries in
that, you know, in both subtleand in very overt ways.
Like, the most overt way inthis production is there's a
(11:16):
scene.
there can be so many discoveriesin that, you know, and both
subtle and in very overt ways,like the most overt way in this
production is there's a scenewhere Stacy the AI is hacked and
has a mental breakdown, and theway it's scripted is that she
just has this like stream ofconsciousness, rambling word
(11:37):
vomit of quotes from the Bible,from Shakespeare, from old
movies, from rap songs, whereshe just spews them out in
stream of consciousness form.
And that's what I wrote.
That's the text.
But Sarah, the actress whoplays the AI, took that and
turned it into a dance.
Maddie Orton (11:56):
Oh, wow.
Jose Rivera (11:57):
Not only is she speaking you know the Koran and
you know lines from ToniMorrison or whatever but she's
also dancing, wow, and she'salso, like the character we
established earlier, sort of anencyclopedia of dance styles.
So during her hacking she doeslike Bob Fosse, she does the
(12:19):
taps, she does hip hop, she doesthe Charleston, she does ballet
, she does some gymnastics andyou know, it's all part of like
the hacking moment and it'squite spectacular, I think.
But that's a great example oflike something that an actor
just brought to the play that Idid not invent, I just invented
(12:45):
the words and she created thislike choreographed nervous
breakdown.
Maddie Orton (12:52):
Oh my gosh, I love that so much.
You are perhaps most widelyknown as the Oscar nominated
screenwriter of the MotorcycleDiaries, and it was recently
announced that you're attachedto a new project as the
screenwriter of the upcomingremake of the 1987 film, la
(13:13):
Bamba.
So how does writing for screenfeel for you versus writing for
stage?
How did you get intoscreenwriting?
Jose Rivera (13:22):
Yeah, it's funny, I didn't really start screenplays
until after I was 40.
Okay, and I had been writingplays and doing television until
then.
And then I had, you know, I hadcreated a TV series was on ABC.
It was canceled after oneseason and I was so bitter about
the cancellation I said I'mnever doing TV again and I'm
(13:45):
only going to write movies.
And so I started my moviecareer then and you know I've
been lucky.
I've had a lot of.
You know I've been lucky.
I've had a lot of.
You know I've worked with somereally interesting people.
I mean, generally, 90 of filmsthat are written never get made
oh my gosh, if you look at mycareer, it's exactly 90.
(14:08):
So you know, I've I had, youknow, three or four films made
and I've written many, many more.
And so, you know, I tell myselfevery time I start a new film
project and I'm like, okay,you're a professional, you can
do this, you're going to do agreat job, Don't fall in love,
(14:28):
because it's going to break yourheart later.
And then every time I do, everytime I fall in love, every time
I get to the point where it'sGod, I love these characters and
I love this story and I lovethis movie.
And then you get your heartbroken.
So I'm hoping La Bamba does notfall into that category.
You know who knows, I mean I'mworking with, you know the
(14:51):
Richie Valens story sofascinating, sure, and you know,
luis Valdez's movie isbeautiful and he doesn't know
why we're doing a remake of it.
You know, if I were him, I'dwonder the same thing, because
he had created a perfect film.
I mean beautiful, remake of it.
If I were him, I'd wonder thesame thing, because he had
created a perfect film.
I mean beautiful.
However, the more research Idid into the life of Ritchie
(15:14):
Valens, the more I realized thatthe movie really missed a lot
of interesting things and thatthe reality was actually really
fascinating.
For instance, in the originalmovie, if you remember, richie
falls in love with Donna rightLike love at first sight, and
they meet in high school and,like you know, she's this cute,
giggly girl.
(15:34):
Well, in real life she was atroublemaker who was always in
detention, she was alwayssmoking in the girls' room and
she was a bit of a rebel.
That's great.
And the first time they met shewas with her boyfriend oh my
gosh, you know.
And Richie still liked andstarted.
Richie cornered her at theparty and started serenading her
(15:56):
, singing a song just for her,and it just.
That was it for the oldboyfriend.
He you know, those things, thosedetails, made me fall in love
with this story.
Maddie Orton (16:07):
And then Motorcycle Diaries.
How did that come about?
Jose Rivera (16:10):
Yeah.
So I was sitting at homeminding my own business, my
phone running, and it was mymanager, rick, who's been my
manager for like 35 years, andhe said hey, they're looking for
a writer to write theMotorcycle Diaries.
Are you interested?
Should I?
Should I send you up for this?
And I hadn't read themotorcycle diaries, either in
Spanish or English, and I didn'tknow much about it.
(16:31):
I knew something about CheGulotta and Rick said and this
Brazilian director, walter Salas, is attached, and that's what
piqued my interest, becauseWalter's Film, central film
central station is was nominatedfor an Academy award and it's
one of the most beautiful filmsyou'll ever see.
It's just, you know, likeamazing.
(16:54):
So I said, yes, yes, send me upfor this.
And so I ended up meetingWalter for lunch in Beverly
Hills.
Maddie Orton (17:03):
That sounds so cool.
I love that yeah.
Jose Rivera (17:06):
It's so cliche oh it's wonderful, though.
Maddie Orton (17:09):
That sounds so cool.
I love that.
Jose Rivera (17:10):
Yeah, it's so cliche, oh, it's wonderful,
though it's so cool.
And I kept thinking to myselfif he is not like the film, the
film is like beautiful andgenerous and smart and poetic.
If he's none of those things,I'm going to hate this guy.
And then he's everything inthat film oh, that's wonderful.
Yeah, just the most cultured,brilliant man and very sensitive
(17:32):
, but you know like, and a reallover of cinema, one of the few
people who can quote.
You know, godard, and it's notironic that's's amazing, yeah.
Yeah and anyway.
So Walter and I hit it offperfectly, and part of it was
that our backgrounds are sodifferent.
Like his father was anambassador oh wow, he was the
(17:55):
Brazilian ambassador to Franceand to the United States.
So Walter lived in the Statesand in France and Brazil.
My father was a janitor, youknow, my father scrubbed floors,
you know.
So we came from like completelydifferent backgrounds and I
think he found my backgroundkind of charming, I found his
background kind of charming, andso we kind of met in the middle
(18:18):
and, yeah, by the end, by theend of lunch, he had hired me.
He had said you want to do this?
And I said, yes, I want to doit.
And so that's how it started.
Maddie Orton (18:27):
It must be so surreal to know that 90% of the
screenplays you make will notget made.
But you've also been nominatedfor an Oscar.
I mean that just feels likesuch tremendous gambling, such a
good return on investment, buttremendous emotional gamble turn
(18:49):
on investment, but it's atremendous like emotional gamble
.
Jose Rivera (18:50):
Yeah, I think.
Um.
Well, I mean, you know, afterthe nomination, that's when most
of my work came.
It's hard to manage like every.
Suddenly you know dreamworksthat wanted nothing to do with
me.
Suddenly you know they're onthe phone you know, we've got a
project for you.
you're the the perfect writerfor this.
I'm like, yes, I'm the samewriter I was six months ago.
You didn't care, and so, yeah,I had a lot of offers and a lot
(19:12):
of things.
But you know, and people likeme are hired because we come
with an award or something andit takes the risk out of it.
That's the only reason.
It's not because I was a betterwriter after the motorcycle
virus, it's that I was less of arisk to the business.
Yet that didn't prevent theseparticular studios in not making
(19:38):
these films that I wrote.
You know, the thing I wrote forDreamWorks never got made.
You know I wrote a film forSony for Halle Berry that never
got made.
You know many, many films.
I worked for a British companycalled Velvet Octopus for a film
about Greenpeace.
That never got made.
So, yeah, I wrote a film forDisney about wolves.
(20:01):
You know that never got made.
So you just never know.
Maddie Orton (20:04):
It seems like you have a very like, well adjusted,
healthy attitude about this,though, because I I could see
just like staying up at nightruminating, but it also seems
like you've come to some sort ofI don't know what relationship
with the industry and and alsobalancing the theater, which was
your original love with film.
Jose Rivera (20:22):
This actually sounds really great yeah, I
credit fatherhood for that.
I think my kids and you knowthis, you know, as your child
gets older, you know they groundyou and it's hard to take shit
seriously when you have kidsLike you take them seriously,
you take their world seriously,like so seriously, you know, and
(20:46):
this other stuff seems like.
You know you can have a tantrum, mr Producer, but you know I
deal with my children and theyget my attention.
You don't, you know.
Maddie Orton (20:56):
Right.
Jose Rivera (20:57):
But you know I listen.
I've had, I've been fired fromseven movies.
I've had terrible reviews.
I've been replaced by actors.
They can't hurt me.
You know what I'm saying You'vedone it all, I can't, you can't
hurt me anymore.
I think what keeps me going isthat I do love writing.
Maddie Orton (21:16):
Yeah, clearly that's great.
Jose Rivera (21:18):
Yeah, when it's just me and the writing, I feel
fine.
It's just when it startsgetting into the land of
executives and you know, then itbecomes complicated.
Maddie Orton (21:29):
So would you have any advice for early career
playwrights, screenwriters?
Jose Rivera (21:35):
Yeah, don't do it.
No, Well, listen, if you can bepersuaded by someone telling
you not to do it, then youshouldn't do it.
You're going to do it.
You're going to do it.
If you want to do it, tellingyou not to do it, then you
shouldn't do it.
You're gonna do it.
You're gonna do it.
If you want to do it, you'regonna do it, no matter what I
say, what anyone says, if you'rein love with it, you have the
passion and the skill, thenyou're gonna do it.
(21:56):
And so my advice is like tojust think in the long term,
like if you're 25 and you'rejust starting out and you know,
just remember that you're in anapprenticeship that's going to
last your entire life long, thatyou're always going to learn
You're never going to know itall and that pace yourself and
(22:18):
remember it's.
You know, when the setbacks arenot the end of the world, that
there's always.
You know, like someone oncesaid, you know movies are like
trains If you miss one, there'salways another one coming.
That's great, and it's sort oflike that Like all right, you
get fired, Hopefully knock onwood, there's another one coming
(22:40):
, you know, Jump on that one.
And then, you know, get firedagain.
Maddie Orton (22:45):
I love that.
Well, Jose Rivera, thank you somuch for your time today.
I really appreciate it.
I hope everybody has a greatexperience with your Name.
Means Dream and best of luckwith everything.
Jose Rivera (22:57):
Thank you so much.
It's really great to talk toyou.
Maddie Orton (23:02):
Your Name Means Dream runs from October 31st
through November 24th at NewJersey Repertory Company.
For more information, visitNJRep.
org.
If you liked this episode, besure to give us a review,
subscribe and tell your friends.
A transcript of this podcast,as well as related content and
more about the arts in NewJersey, can be found on
JerseyArts.
com.
(23:22):
The Jersey Arts Podcast ispresented by Art Pride New
Jersey, advancing a state ofcreativity since 1986.
The show is co-founded by andcurrently supported by funds
from the New Jersey StateCouncil on the Arts, with
additional support from theNational Endowment for the Arts.
This episode was hosted,produced and edited by yours
truly, Maddie Orton.
Executive producers are JimAtkinson and Isaac Serna-Diez.
(23:44):
Special thanks to Jose Rivera.
I'm Maddie Orton for the JerseyArts Podcast.
Thanks for listening.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.