"Jaws." It was an iconic moment in cinema history. The three-time Academy Award-winning film is credited as the first true “summer blockbuster,” having toppled box office records to become the top-grossing film of 1975. And as we approach its 50th anniversary, George Street Playhouse is bringing the behind-the-scenes story of the film’s making to the stage.
FADE IN: The open ocean, 1974. Filming is delayed…again. The lead actors—theatre veteran Robert Shaw and young Hollywood hotshots Richard Dreyfuss and Roy Scheider—are crammed into a too-small boat, entirely at the mercy of foul weather and a faulty mechanical co-star. Alcohol flows, egos collide, and tempers flare on a chaotic voyage that just might lead to cinematic magic…if it doesn’t sink them all.
That’s the official description of the play, “The Shark is Broken,” written by Ian Shaw and Joseph Nixon. Shaw is the son of the late actor Robert Shaw who played the memorable Captain Quint. He brings to life the moments of Jaws that had, prior to this show, lived only in the tall tales of Hollywood memory.
Check out today's episode to meet the talented cast of "The Shark is Broken," directed by Peter Flynn.
Thanks for listening!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (00:03):
This is Gina Marie Rodriguez and you're
listening to the Jersey ArtsPodcast.
Whether you're a fan or not,I'm willing to bet that you've
heard of a little film calledJaws.
It is an iconic moment incinema history.
The three-time AcademyAward-winning film is credited
as the first true summerblockbuster, having toppled box
office records to become thetop-grossing film of 1975.
(00:26):
And as we approach its 50thanniversary, george Street
Playhouse is bringing thebehind-the-scenes story of the
film's making to the stage.
Allow me to set the scene.
Fade in the open ocean, 1974.
Filming is delayed Again.
The lead actors, theaterveteran Robert Shaw and young
(00:48):
Hollywood hotshots RichardDreyfuss and Roy Scheider, are
crammed into a too-small boat,entirely at the mercy of foul
weather and a faulty mechanicalco-star Alcohol flows.
Egos collide and tempers flareon a chaotic voyage that just
might lead to cinematic magic,if it doesn't sink them all.
That's the official descriptionof the play the Shark is Broken
(01:12):
, written by Ian Shaw and JosephNixon.
Shaw is the son of the lateactor Robert Shaw, who played
the memorable Captain Quint.
The writer brings to life themoments of Jaws that had, prior
to this show, lived only in thetall tales of Hollywood memory.
During their rehearsal process,I had the pleasure of speaking
with the cast of George Street'sproduction.
(01:33):
The wonderful gentlemen who arebringing to life the moments
not captured on camera, staytuned to meet the talented cast
of the Shark is Broken.
I'll let them introducethemselves Wait for it.
Jason Babinsky (01:47):
Wait for it Wait for it.
Jeff Bender (01:55):
Hi, my name is Jeff Bender.
I'm playing Robert Shaw in theShark is Broken.
Max Wolkowitz (02:01):
Hi, I'm Max Wolkowitz playing Richard
Dreyfuss in the Shark is Broken.
Jason Babinsky (02:06):
And I'm Jason Babinsky.
I'm playing Roy Scheider in theShark is Broken.
Hi, I'm Max Wolkowitz, playingRichard Dreyfuss in the.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (02:09):
Shark is Broken and I'm Jason Babinsky.
I'm playing Roy Scheider in theShark is Broken.
Yay, wonderful, I'm so happy tomeet you guys.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to talk to me today.
First, I would like to start bysaying I was very brave.
I was a big girl and I watchedJaws just in preparation for
this interview.
Max Wolkowitz (02:26):
For your sacrifice.
Yeah.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (02:28):
Thank you.
I'm going to ask you for around of applause, but I won't
go that far.
But Jeff knows this I am a huge,huge, scaredy cat.
Don't like the ocean, don'tlike horror films, don't enjoy
being scared, don't like horrorfilms, don't enjoy being scared.
(02:50):
And I wanted to understand whatI was getting myself into by
talking to you guys.
So I did it.
I braved my way through and itactually wasn't that bad.
I'm very proud of myself.
Good job, thank you.
Thank you.
But it's interesting for mebecause now that I'm looking at
your faces, I can see bits ofyour characters in you as well.
So good job casting guys.
I can see why you are who youare.
(03:10):
But I want to know your storywith Jaws.
So how familiar were you?
Were each of you with Jawsbefore being cast?
Max Wolkowitz (03:22):
Well.
Jason Babinsky (03:22):
I'm a huge Jaws fan.
A friend of mine discussed itand we kind of decided that it's
maybe the perfect movie.
I was very, very, very familiarwith it.
I still think it holds up.
The score is incredible.
Everything about it is great.
I can't shut it off.
And when it's not on, when itwasn't on years ago, I went out
and bought the blu-ray and so Ihave it at my disposal 24 hours
(03:46):
a day and I don't shut it off.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (03:49):
I think that's amazing.
Jason Babinsky (03:50):
Yeah, Was that the first time you had seen it,
though the other day Is it badif I say yes, no, it's okay.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (03:58):
I'm super scared of everything.
No-transcript.
(04:31):
For better or for worse, thatwas my first viewing of Jaws.
Jason Babinsky (04:36):
Hard to still make you jump.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (04:38):
I actually didn't, but I think I was.
I was watching with my motherbecause she had seen it before
and I was like please tell mewhen things are going to happen.
So I did cheat you made meadmit that I was cheating the
purpose of a whole show.
I can't watch horror.
Okay, this was as brave as Iget.
Jeff Bender (04:56):
Okay, alright, you did good.
I'm proud.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (04:59):
Thank you, you should be.
It was really hard for me, butthe show should not be scary.
Right, correct me, okay,everybody how good it is.
Yes, there you go, scary, howgood it is there's your
soundbite, yeah that'll be theteaser, jeff.
Does anybody else want to weighin on their history with Jaws?
Max Wolkowitz (05:20):
uh, I mean, I love the movie.
I'm not nearly as obsessed asJason, um, but I think few
people are.
Um, I yeah, I think I love themovie.
I'm not nearly as obsessed asJason, but I think few people
are.
I yeah, I think I saw itprobably for the first time when
I was in high school.
I think it's great.
There's a in a way, and I'malso not a horror movie person.
I don't like horror movies, butI would argue that it's
(05:43):
actually not a horror movie butrather a suspense film in a
certain way or thriller isanother term that people use.
But to me, what's brilliantabout the film is the use of
suspense and how long it takesfor us to see the shark.
But there's all of these waysin which it's just, it's a slow
(06:06):
build in a way that People don'tmake those kinds of movies that
much anymore.
And yeah, I love it for that.
But yeah, I've seen it manytimes and in preparation just
for auditioning for this, Iwatched it, I think six times.
Jeff Bender (06:20):
Well, I think the funny thing about the suspense
of it is because the shark wasbroken and it was accidentally
more suspenseful because youwere supposed to see the shark
much sooner and it was alwaysbroken, so Steven Spielberg
couldn't use it, so you justnever saw him, but it was always
there.
I think that's kind of theheart of what our show is about.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (06:39):
And I think that's fantastic.
I was watching also inpreparation for this interview.
I was watching I think it'scalled the Shark is Still
Working the documentary and,Jeff, you may have even
recommended that to me.
There was one of the producersand now I'm going to butcher it
because I can't remember hisname, but he had said who is it.
Zanuck or Brown maybe it wassomeone else.
(07:02):
Daryl Zanuck there was someone,because I don't think it was
either Zanuck or Brown, but I'llfigure that out and we'll put
it in post right, he was sayingthat he viewed this film as an
indie right, disguised as a bighollywood picture, and I think
the shark is broken.
Is the the reason that you cancall it an indie right?
(07:23):
Because nothing was going right.
You kind of had to play to yourstrengths and at the time that
was the suspense of not knowingif this thing is going to pop up
or not.
So, it worked out really welland I do agree that if I had
seen the shark sooner, like thatopening where the was her name,
chrissy where she gets pulledunder, that was much scarier.
Jason Babinsky (07:45):
One time viewer, you got all yeah.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (07:48):
Thank you, I did also watch the
documentary which really helpedseal it in there.
But, yeah, that opening wasreally excellent.
Thank you, I did also watch thedocumentary which really helped
seal it in there.
But yeah, that opening wasreally excellent because we
didn't know and because ourimaginations forced us to
picture whatever the scarymonster was right, and now we
have movies like the Meg andstuff which is a little bit
different.
I'm not going to trash othermovies.
(08:10):
That's not fair.
I want to know had anybody hereread the book?
Jeff Bender (08:16):
I have Peter Benchley's book.
I have not.
Max Wolkowitz (08:18):
I did not, I haven't either, jason, you said
you did the Jaws nerd?
Jason Babinsky (08:23):
Yeah, I've read the book.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (08:25):
I'm not surprised, but did you read it
first, or you saw the movie andthen you read the book?
Jason Babinsky (08:28):
There's a copy in my sister's uh crawl space in
a box of my old books, and thenI have one that I bought for
this too, so I've read it backin the 90s and then, uh, before
this again oh my gosh, jason,what would you have done if you
were not cast in this?
Cried himself in a huge pillowyeah, it was my own little white
(08:53):
whale to use maritimeterminology.
I really wanted to be in thiswhen it was on Broadway.
And so when this popped up andI auditioned for it on Broadway
and I was really trying to and Ihad callbacks and I was like,
oh, I want to play Roy Scheiderbecause people said you look
like Roy Scheider and I love themovie, and then I didn't get it
.
And then this is the first timeit's being done, so I'm very
(09:17):
happy to to take a crack at itout here at the uh, george
Street yeah, well,congratulations, you finally got
there.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (09:24):
You got your white whale yeah with a
great white shark.
Jason Babinsky (09:27):
I mean, I guess we shouldn't really say that
well, did you have a questionabout the book or?
Gina Marie Rodriguez (09:32):
I was just curious if that played in about
the book.
Jeff Bender (09:36):
No, don't get them started.
How long is this?
Max Wolkowitz (09:40):
not not long enough, not long enough I
usually am an actor who, like I,will do so much research and
and stuff before a role, but inthe script it specifically there
is a line that richard dreyfthat I have as Richard Dreyfuss
which is.
They told me not to read it,they said it might confuse me,
(10:01):
and so I was like, well, I'mgoing to go about as method, as
I ever go, which is to just notread the book, which is you know
easier than reading the book.
So yeah, that was.
But I was like I, I was likemaybe I should read the book and
then I re read the script and Iwas like I'm not going to read
the book.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (10:19):
That makes me so happy.
Also, it makes me happy becauseyou just sounded so much like
Richard Dreyfuss the little girlin me just freaked out.
Max Wolkowitz (10:25):
This is when I I mean, that's a little taste of
it.
I, in you know, I spent howevermany hours we just spent
rehearsing.
He creeps in quite a bit.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (10:38):
I love it and, honestly, that's probably a
good note, because all that Iknow about the book and I'm so
sorry, jason, if you loved itbut one of the reviews that I
saw was that people found thecharacters really unlikable and
they were rooting for the shark.
So you know I can understandwhy.
Maybe they told him not to readthe book.
But I did just want to ask foreach of you, what does go into
(11:01):
your research?
How do you?
You're emulating real life,well-known figures, so how do
you approach that?
Jeff Bender (11:08):
Well, I, we started off or at least I started off
looking at interviews withRobert Shaw and how his
mannerisms he's British, so he'sEnglish, so he has a dialect.
I wanted to hear his cadence ofhis dialect and his mannerisms,
the way he sits, the way hewalks.
(11:28):
And then I would watch some ofhis performances, which don't
necessarily have anything to dowith Jaws, because he's playing
this old New England sailor withan American New England dialect
and you don't hear his British,but he's British in the show.
So it didn't do a lot for me towatch his other performances,
(11:50):
just to enjoy his performances.
I love watching him, hischaracters.
But, um, yeah, I started offwith the, with the interviews,
particularly dick cabot.
Um, there's one that he'stalking um to these reporters on
nantucket island, uh, just outon the dock, and he's having
like this, this, uh, you know,like this candid interview.
He talks a lot of crap in ittoo, and and, uh, I really found
(12:12):
that one to be helpful, one ofthe most helpful ones.
Max Wolkowitz (12:15):
Yeah, for me.
I started with.
I watched the Apprenticeship ofDoody Kravitz, which is the
film that he made that Dreyfusmade right before Jaws, and
there's a number of referencesto it in our script, so that was
where I started.
I found it.
It was available in full onyoutube and I was like, okay,
(12:36):
great, I'm just gonna watch thismovie.
Um, and so there was a intenselyfrenetic quality to him that I
think is captured in the script.
Um, and then I'm uh, I'm a bigvoice and speech nerd, um, and
so I go straight into let mefigure out how this guy sounds
and like he's got, he's justlike pure mask and and then he
(13:00):
makes he, I was doing somereading about you know his
upbringing and he's got thisvery particular way of speaking
because he spent his youth inQueens but then is in Beverly
Hills High and then he gets this, this strange thing that
happens in his mouth that isneither East Coast nor West
Coast, but somehow both, and sothat's sort of I.
(13:22):
That's where I start when I'mplaying somebody who doesn't
sound like, who doesn't have tosound like me.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (13:29):
That was impressive.
Max Wolkowitz (13:30):
Thank you.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (13:32):
Chasing your off screen, but I know
you're there.
Yeah, as far as off screen.
Jason Babinsky (13:34):
but you're there , yeah, uh, as far as research,
when you're having to researchlike great films from the 70s,
there are far worse things tohave to.
You know, it's like it's not amedical tv drama where I'm
online trying to figure out howto put in a catheter.
You know, like it's like thiswas like watching the, like
french connection, and you know,uh, all that jazz and every roy
(13:55):
scheider movie and then all themovies that we reference in the
script, which is quite a few oflike the kind of that great
counterculture movement in the70s where cinema took a turn.
And then this is kind of thenext turn, because Jaws was that
next turn in movie making tothe summer blockbuster that we
still now are obsessed with.
(14:16):
And so, like that was myresearch, looking at it, and you
know, I read up on a lot ofRoy's stuff.
I read his biography.
That was, you know, I don'tknow, not the greatest book, but
it was fine.
It was fine.
It's got some nuggets I saw,you know, like, but it's fun.
I mean, researching is so mucheasier now than when it used to
(14:36):
be.
You can just sit there at home,you can sit on the train and,
like Max said, whole movie's onYouTube.
You can watch some of thisstuff anytime you want and pause
it.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (14:50):
That's a very good point, and if it means
anything to you I don't know ifit should, but Roy Scheider is
the one that I had a crush on,so I'm just going to throw that
out there Without any spoilers,if that's at all possible.
Can you share your favoritemoment, what you enjoy playing
the most in this show?
Jeff Bender (15:10):
For me, there's a game that we play.
I don't want to give too muchaway, but we play to pass the
time.
These characters are playinggames while they're waiting to
fix the shark, and so there'sone game that we play in
particular that is very lively.
We're finding it's a reallygood group with the last couple
of rehearsals and I'm having ablast with it.
I think it's a lot of fun andthat's one of my favorite
(15:32):
moments.
Just the three of us, we foundthis groove and it's just been
joy.
I really enjoy it.
Max Wolkowitz (15:40):
Yeah, I think the game is certainly the most fun.
There's lots of like littlethings that I enjoy.
We have an unbelievablyvirtuosic prop master that is
giving us the most beautifulobjects to play with, and so,
for me, just every day there'snew toys in the room and with
(16:05):
more detail and more um texture,and so every day I'm like, how
can I spend more time in or Idon't even have to invest in
them because they're so, uh,rich.
I'm like, oh great, I can justbe here with these things and
and that's been a real joy forme on the in the process is just
like getting to work with thesegreat objects.
Jason Babinsky (16:28):
Yeah, I mean, jeff said it the most enjoyable
time that the characters have onstage is when they play this
game too.
So we're allowed to.
Actually, I mean, I guess it'sodd that the three actors were
kind of like that is the besttime.
Most of the time, the actorsare like well, I like it when we
go head-to-head and it's a bigemotional blow-up.
And this is actually three guyshaving an enjoyable time
(16:52):
playing a game, for the mostpart.
And it is the best time in theshow for us and I think the
audience.
It'll translate to them andthey'll go along the journey,
even you know, because we'regenuinely having a fun time
trying to beat one another.
Jeff Bender (17:08):
It's not the only thing that we do on the show.
I mean, it makes it sound likethat's like the only only we do.
Max Wolkowitz (17:12):
Also check in with us in three weeks.
We're still enjoying each other.
Jeff Bender (17:16):
I like them now, but yeah Well how long have you
been rehearsing?
Max Wolkowitz (17:25):
We're coming up to the end of our third week of
rehearsal.
We've been flying through.
We finished staging in like aweek and a half, so we've been
doing run-throughs, which in myexperience recently is unheard
of to have multiple run-throughsbefore we get to tech so we've
(17:45):
really been able to get into thenitty gritty of it in a great
way.
Yeah, but we've been workingfor three weeks.
We've got another like week anda half before our first
performance we go into tech aweek from today, tomorrow today
today next.
Jeff Bender (18:02):
Friday or Thursdays yeah, next week.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (18:05):
Well, it sounds like you guys make a
great team and have some greatchemistry, so I'm willing to bet
that you're still going to likeeach other another three weeks
from now.
So, fingers crossed though, Ithink so too.
Yeah, it's a safe bet.
If anybody's placing bets,now's the time.
Max Wolkowitz (18:21):
No, no, no no.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (18:23):
In your research.
Is there anything that you'vecome to love about the men that
you're playing, something thatyou hadn't known prior,
something that you reallyappreciate?
I'm seeing faces and reactionshere, so now I'm very curious.
Jason Babinsky (18:38):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's funny because this
was written by Robert's son andso he takes liberties with each
of these characters for bothgood and for bad and both for
comedic and dramatic purposes.
But Roy Scheider, playing forhis career like the heavy in a
lot of things, always playingcops, always the Jersey gravelly
kind of and he was.
(19:00):
When you watch interviews withhim, he's a bona fide dork and
so it's like I think that sideof it I didn't.
I didn't know much about royscheider prior to this.
I knew his movies and he'salways like you know, you're
like, yeah, there's that badasscop, like and and actually the
(19:21):
script leans into more of himbeing a nerd, and so that's been
.
The most enjoyable thing that Ifound out about Roy Scheider is
that he is not what he appearedon screen but somehow, mostly
because of his broken nose, hegot typecast as like he's that
guy and he played that guy a lot.
Jeff Bender (19:43):
I love that and I feel validated in my crush now
Watching Robert Shaw's.
Well, let me start off.
I love watching his films.
I think he's.
I really enjoy his movies.
My first taste of him was inBond, but I didn't know he was
in From Russia With Love, rightas the blonde, short, blonde
haired villain.
And then I saw him in Jaws andthen I didn't know they were the
(20:06):
same person.
But you see him in interviewsand he's kind of a pompous kind
of guy and he's very I don'tknow if you'd say full of
himself, but yeah, I could saythat and he's very intellectual,
he's very, he knows a lot ofthings and he has opinions about
all those things.
And so just to see his his reallife character as opposed to
the characters that he plays isvery interesting to me to see
(20:30):
the differences and how aboutfor?
Max Wolkowitz (20:33):
richard.
Um, I, I will say that, uh, Ilove playing richard dreyfus, in
part because I love playingRichard Dreyfuss, in part
because I love playing villains,and I think there is something
(20:55):
sort of mysteriously lovableabout this guy who is almost
entirely unredeemable, almostentirely unredeemable, and the
duality of that of this guy,who's like he's got a charm,
he's got a charisma, but he'skind of just a prick, is really
delicious to play and so likewatching interviews with him and
(21:20):
like seeing this young, crazy,ambitious guy who you know has a
bit of, I think, self-delusion,um, is is just like it's super
fun.
But in terms of like things Ifell in love with about Richard
Dreyfuss, not sure quite what tosay on that front.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (21:44):
Let's hope that this isn't the one episode
of Jersey Arts that RichardDreyfuss doesn't, do you know?
Jeff Bender (21:49):
what you know what Rick.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (21:51):
Bring it on.
Well, let's not end on thatnote.
Jason Babinsky (21:57):
We can't end on a come at me, bro.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (21:59):
Maybe I mean there's still time, but my
last question for you guys iswhat about this show is special
to you and why do you think Jawsfans, why would you encourage
Jaws fans to see this show andnon-Jaws fans?
Jason Babinsky (22:15):
Oh, it's great for Jaws fans right now.
I mean it's the 50thanniversary this year.
It's kind of like when themovie was coming out With the
book, the book didn't sell thatgreat in hardcover, and then
when we're later, I'm going totell you about the book.
I think it's a great movie.
It's a great play for Jaws fans.
Hands down, it's 50thanniversary.
Much like the book, when it wasin paperback it flew off the
(22:36):
shelves and that's when they hadit and they were figuring out
how to make it.
So there was all all this likesizzle behind it then.
And this is just a great yearto to do this play.
I mean they're going to bedoing shark fest out and jaws
fest out in martha's vineyardthis summer, so like we're kind
of like almost kicking it offout here, you know, in jersey,
like bringing jaws.
(22:57):
I yeah and I mean non-fans, Ithink will enjoy it too.
I like ever, because it's it'severybody's heard of the movie
yeah and and it's three, likethree guys, guys who have
big-ish personalities that arejust stuck together, and I
compared it to an officesituation where you're like
these are your co-workers.
They just happen to be threebig-name actors stuck in a tiny
(23:21):
little boat for a very long timethat are forced to get along
for whatever that means, and itdoesn't mean good things.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (23:30):
I think that's really relatable.
Jason Babinsky (23:32):
Yeah, everyone's got their, you know.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (23:35):
Absolutely so.
For people like me who wereafraid to watch Jaws, you guys
can still see it.
You don't have to be brave.
I was very brave.
I'm still telling myself that,but you don't have to be brave.
I was.
I was very brave.
I'm still telling myself that,but you don't have to be.
Jeff Bender (23:45):
You can see the show without having seen the
movie, you can see it withoutseeing jaws if you wish, but, uh
, I highly recommend seeing jaws.
Max Wolkowitz (23:51):
Yeah, yes, I'll also, I'll also say um, uh,
because this is my obsession,but like, our designers are also
fantastic.
And um, the set design, thecostume design we haven't seen
it yet, but the projectionssound incredible, the lighting,
like I'm so excited because ourdesigners have such attention to
(24:17):
detail.
So for obsessed fans like Jasonwho have seen the movie 30,000
times, they will be able to seelike, like little Easter eggs
throughout the play.
But for people who haven't seenthe movie, it just gives you
this great texture of like thisis a real place and these are
(24:39):
real people going through a realthing, and that's really
exciting.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (24:43):
Thank you so much for shouting out the
designers.
I love the design team.
Jeff Bender (24:46):
Amazing across the board.
Max Wolkowitz (24:47):
I'll also say that our director, peter Flynn,
is just phenomenal.
He is a true leader who leadswith kindness, and expertise
yeah, and that is honestly rarerthan it should be in this
industry.
(25:07):
And he cares so deeply bothabout the art we're making and
the people who are making theart, and that's a magical
combination.
Jeff Bender (25:18):
It's been a joy to come to rehearsal.
I love coming to work.
The stage management team issome of the best I've ever
worked with.
I mean, they're just fantastic.
They're on top of it and Iactually like my co -stars here.
They're actually really niceguys.
I mean, if you looked at themyou wouldn't think that, but
they are.
(25:38):
They're really nice.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (25:40):
When you have a cast that's this
comfortable joking around withone another and praising their
creative team, it's almostalways a safe bet that you've
got a great production on yourhands.
So if you're as into Hollywoodfoibles and behind-the-scenes
stories as I am, you may want tocheck out.
The Shark is Broken, nowrunning through May 18th at the
George Street Playhouse in NewBrunswick.
(26:01):
For tickets and moreinformation, be sure to visit
georgetreeplayhouseorg.
If you liked this episode, besure to review, subscribe and
tell your friends.
A transcript of this podcast,links relevant to the story and
more about the arts in NewJersey can be found at
jerseyartscom.
The Jersey Arts Podcast ispresented by Art Pride New
Jersey, advancing a state ofcreativity since 1986.
(26:24):
This show was co-founded by,and currently supported by,
funds from, the New Jersey StateCouncil on the Arts.
This episode was hosted, editedand produced by me, Gina Marie
Rodriguez.
Executive producers are JimAtkinson and Isaac Serna-Diez,
and my thanks, of course, toJeff Bender, Max Wolkowitz and
Jason Babinsky for speaking withme today.
(26:45):
I'm Gina Marie Rodriguez forthe Jersey Arts Podcast.
Thanks for listening.
This is Gina Marie Rodriguez and you're
listening to the Jersey ArtsPodcast.
Whether you're a fan or not,I'm willing to bet that you've
heard of a little film calledJaws.
It is an iconic moment incinema history.
The three-time AcademyAward-winning film is credited
as the first true summerblockbuster, having toppled box
office records to become thetop-grossing film of 1975.
(00:26):
And as we approach its 50thanniversary, george Street
Playhouse is bringing thebehind-the-scenes story of the
film's making to the stage.
Allow me to set the scene.
Fade in the open ocean, 1974.
Filming is delayed Again.
The lead actors, theaterveteran Robert Shaw and young
(00:48):
Hollywood hotshots RichardDreyfuss and Roy Scheider, are
crammed into a too-small boat,entirely at the mercy of foul
weather and a faulty mechanicalco-star Alcohol flows.
Egos collide and tempers flareon a chaotic voyage that just
might lead to cinematic magic,if it doesn't sink them all.
That's the official descriptionof the play the Shark is Broken
(01:12):
, written by Ian Shaw and JosephNixon.
Shaw is the son of the lateactor Robert Shaw, who played
the memorable Captain Quint.
The writer brings to life themoments of Jaws that had, prior
to this show, lived only in thetall tales of Hollywood memory.
During their rehearsal process,I had the pleasure of speaking
with the cast of George Street'sproduction.
(01:33):
The wonderful gentlemen who arebringing to life the moments
not captured on camera, staytuned to meet the talented cast
of the Shark is Broken.
I'll let them introducethemselves Wait for it.
Jason Babinsky (01:47):
Wait for it Wait for it.
Jeff Bender (01:55):
Hi, my name is Jeff Bender.
I'm playing Robert Shaw in theShark is Broken.
Max Wolkowitz (02:01):
Hi, I'm Max Wolkowitz playing Richard
Dreyfuss in the Shark is Broken.
Jason Babinsky (02:06):
And I'm Jason Babinsky.
I'm playing Roy Scheider in theShark is Broken.
Hi, I'm Max Wolkowitz, playingRichard Dreyfuss in the.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (02:09):
Shark is Broken and I'm Jason Babinsky.
I'm playing Roy Scheider in theShark is Broken.
Yay, wonderful, I'm so happy tomeet you guys.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to talk to me today.
First, I would like to start bysaying I was very brave.
I was a big girl and I watchedJaws just in preparation for
this interview.
Max Wolkowitz (02:26):
For your sacrifice.
Yeah.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (02:28):
Thank you.
I'm going to ask you for around of applause, but I won't
go that far.
But Jeff knows this I am a huge,huge, scaredy cat.
Don't like the ocean, don'tlike horror films, don't enjoy
being scared, don't like horrorfilms, don't enjoy being scared.
(02:50):
And I wanted to understand whatI was getting myself into by
talking to you guys.
So I did it.
I braved my way through and itactually wasn't that bad.
I'm very proud of myself.
Good job, thank you.
Thank you.
But it's interesting for mebecause now that I'm looking at
your faces, I can see bits ofyour characters in you as well.
So good job casting guys.
I can see why you are who youare.
(03:10):
But I want to know your storywith Jaws.
So how familiar were you?
Were each of you with Jawsbefore being cast?
Max Wolkowitz (03:22):
Well.
Jason Babinsky (03:22):
I'm a huge Jaws fan.
A friend of mine discussed itand we kind of decided that it's
maybe the perfect movie.
I was very, very, very familiarwith it.
I still think it holds up.
The score is incredible.
Everything about it is great.
I can't shut it off.
And when it's not on, when itwasn't on years ago, I went out
and bought the blu-ray and so Ihave it at my disposal 24 hours
(03:46):
a day and I don't shut it off.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (03:49):
I think that's amazing.
Jason Babinsky (03:50):
Yeah, Was that the first time you had seen it,
though the other day Is it badif I say yes, no, it's okay.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (03:58):
I'm super scared of everything.
No-transcript.
(04:31):
For better or for worse, thatwas my first viewing of Jaws.
Jason Babinsky (04:36):
Hard to still make you jump.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (04:38):
I actually didn't, but I think I was.
I was watching with my motherbecause she had seen it before
and I was like please tell mewhen things are going to happen.
So I did cheat you made meadmit that I was cheating the
purpose of a whole show.
I can't watch horror.
Okay, this was as brave as Iget.
Jeff Bender (04:56):
Okay, alright, you did good.
I'm proud.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (04:59):
Thank you, you should be.
It was really hard for me, butthe show should not be scary.
Right, correct me, okay,everybody how good it is.
Yes, there you go, scary, howgood it is there's your
soundbite, yeah that'll be theteaser, jeff.
Does anybody else want to weighin on their history with Jaws?
Max Wolkowitz (05:20):
uh, I mean, I love the movie.
I'm not nearly as obsessed asJason, um, but I think few
people are.
Um, I yeah, I think I love themovie.
I'm not nearly as obsessed asJason, but I think few people
are.
I yeah, I think I saw itprobably for the first time when
I was in high school.
I think it's great.
There's a in a way, and I'malso not a horror movie person.
I don't like horror movies, butI would argue that it's
(05:43):
actually not a horror movie butrather a suspense film in a
certain way or thriller isanother term that people use.
But to me, what's brilliantabout the film is the use of
suspense and how long it takesfor us to see the shark.
But there's all of these waysin which it's just, it's a slow
(06:06):
build in a way that People don'tmake those kinds of movies that
much anymore.
And yeah, I love it for that.
But yeah, I've seen it manytimes and in preparation just
for auditioning for this, Iwatched it, I think six times.
Jeff Bender (06:20):
Well, I think the funny thing about the suspense
of it is because the shark wasbroken and it was accidentally
more suspenseful because youwere supposed to see the shark
much sooner and it was alwaysbroken, so Steven Spielberg
couldn't use it, so you justnever saw him, but it was always
there.
I think that's kind of theheart of what our show is about.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (06:39):
And I think that's fantastic.
I was watching also inpreparation for this interview.
I was watching I think it'scalled the Shark is Still
Working the documentary and,Jeff, you may have even
recommended that to me.
There was one of the producersand now I'm going to butcher it
because I can't remember hisname, but he had said who is it.
Zanuck or Brown maybe it wassomeone else.
(07:02):
Daryl Zanuck there was someone,because I don't think it was
either Zanuck or Brown, but I'llfigure that out and we'll put
it in post right, he was sayingthat he viewed this film as an
indie right, disguised as a bighollywood picture, and I think
the shark is broken.
Is the the reason that you cancall it an indie right?
(07:23):
Because nothing was going right.
You kind of had to play to yourstrengths and at the time that
was the suspense of not knowingif this thing is going to pop up
or not.
So, it worked out really welland I do agree that if I had
seen the shark sooner, like thatopening where the was her name,
chrissy where she gets pulledunder, that was much scarier.
Jason Babinsky (07:45):
One time viewer, you got all yeah.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (07:48):
Thank you, I did also watch the
documentary which really helpedseal it in there.
But, yeah, that opening wasreally excellent.
Thank you, I did also watch thedocumentary which really helped
seal it in there.
But yeah, that opening wasreally excellent because we
didn't know and because ourimaginations forced us to
picture whatever the scarymonster was right, and now we
have movies like the Meg andstuff which is a little bit
different.
I'm not going to trash othermovies.
(08:10):
That's not fair.
I want to know had anybody hereread the book?
Jeff Bender (08:16):
I have Peter Benchley's book.
I have not.
Max Wolkowitz (08:18):
I did not, I haven't either, jason, you said
you did the Jaws nerd?
Jason Babinsky (08:23):
Yeah, I've read the book.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (08:25):
I'm not surprised, but did you read it
first, or you saw the movie andthen you read the book?
Jason Babinsky (08:28):
There's a copy in my sister's uh crawl space in
a box of my old books, and thenI have one that I bought for
this too, so I've read it backin the 90s and then, uh, before
this again oh my gosh, jason,what would you have done if you
were not cast in this?
Cried himself in a huge pillowyeah, it was my own little white
(08:53):
whale to use maritimeterminology.
I really wanted to be in thiswhen it was on Broadway.
And so when this popped up andI auditioned for it on Broadway
and I was really trying to and Ihad callbacks and I was like,
oh, I want to play Roy Scheiderbecause people said you look
like Roy Scheider and I love themovie, and then I didn't get it
.
And then this is the first timeit's being done, so I'm very
(09:17):
happy to to take a crack at itout here at the uh, george
Street yeah, well,congratulations, you finally got
there.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (09:24):
You got your white whale yeah with a
great white shark.
Jason Babinsky (09:27):
I mean, I guess we shouldn't really say that
well, did you have a questionabout the book or?
Gina Marie Rodriguez (09:32):
I was just curious if that played in about
the book.
Jeff Bender (09:36):
No, don't get them started.
How long is this?
Max Wolkowitz (09:40):
not not long enough, not long enough I
usually am an actor who, like I,will do so much research and
and stuff before a role, but inthe script it specifically there
is a line that richard dreyfthat I have as Richard Dreyfuss
which is.
They told me not to read it,they said it might confuse me,
(10:01):
and so I was like, well, I'mgoing to go about as method, as
I ever go, which is to just notread the book, which is you know
easier than reading the book.
So yeah, that was.
But I was like I, I was likemaybe I should read the book and
then I re read the script and Iwas like I'm not going to read
the book.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (10:19):
That makes me so happy.
Also, it makes me happy becauseyou just sounded so much like
Richard Dreyfuss the little girlin me just freaked out.
Max Wolkowitz (10:25):
This is when I I mean, that's a little taste of
it.
I, in you know, I spent howevermany hours we just spent
rehearsing.
He creeps in quite a bit.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (10:38):
I love it and, honestly, that's probably a
good note, because all that Iknow about the book and I'm so
sorry, jason, if you loved itbut one of the reviews that I
saw was that people found thecharacters really unlikable and
they were rooting for the shark.
So you know I can understandwhy.
Maybe they told him not to readthe book.
But I did just want to ask foreach of you, what does go into
(11:01):
your research?
How do you?
You're emulating real life,well-known figures, so how do
you approach that?
Jeff Bender (11:08):
Well, I, we started off or at least I started off
looking at interviews withRobert Shaw and how his
mannerisms he's British, so he'sEnglish, so he has a dialect.
I wanted to hear his cadence ofhis dialect and his mannerisms,
the way he sits, the way hewalks.
(11:28):
And then I would watch some ofhis performances, which don't
necessarily have anything to dowith Jaws, because he's playing
this old New England sailor withan American New England dialect
and you don't hear his British,but he's British in the show.
So it didn't do a lot for me towatch his other performances,
(11:50):
just to enjoy his performances.
I love watching him, hischaracters.
But, um, yeah, I started offwith the, with the interviews,
particularly dick cabot.
Um, there's one that he'stalking um to these reporters on
nantucket island, uh, just outon the dock, and he's having
like this, this, uh, you know,like this candid interview.
He talks a lot of crap in ittoo, and and, uh, I really found
(12:12):
that one to be helpful, one ofthe most helpful ones.
Max Wolkowitz (12:15):
Yeah, for me.
I started with.
I watched the Apprenticeship ofDoody Kravitz, which is the
film that he made that Dreyfusmade right before Jaws, and
there's a number of referencesto it in our script, so that was
where I started.
I found it.
It was available in full onyoutube and I was like, okay,
(12:36):
great, I'm just gonna watch thismovie.
Um, and so there was a intenselyfrenetic quality to him that I
think is captured in the script.
Um, and then I'm uh, I'm a bigvoice and speech nerd, um, and
so I go straight into let mefigure out how this guy sounds
and like he's got, he's justlike pure mask and and then he
(13:00):
makes he, I was doing somereading about you know his
upbringing and he's got thisvery particular way of speaking
because he spent his youth inQueens but then is in Beverly
Hills High and then he gets this, this strange thing that
happens in his mouth that isneither East Coast nor West
Coast, but somehow both, and sothat's sort of I.
(13:22):
That's where I start when I'mplaying somebody who doesn't
sound like, who doesn't have tosound like me.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (13:29):
That was impressive.
Max Wolkowitz (13:30):
Thank you.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (13:32):
Chasing your off screen, but I know
you're there.
Yeah, as far as off screen.
Jason Babinsky (13:34):
but you're there , yeah, uh, as far as research,
when you're having to researchlike great films from the 70s,
there are far worse things tohave to.
You know, it's like it's not amedical tv drama where I'm
online trying to figure out howto put in a catheter.
You know, like it's like thiswas like watching the, like
french connection, and you know,uh, all that jazz and every roy
(13:55):
scheider movie and then all themovies that we reference in the
script, which is quite a few oflike the kind of that great
counterculture movement in the70s where cinema took a turn.
And then this is kind of thenext turn, because Jaws was that
next turn in movie making tothe summer blockbuster that we
still now are obsessed with.
(14:16):
And so, like that was myresearch, looking at it, and you
know, I read up on a lot ofRoy's stuff.
I read his biography.
That was, you know, I don'tknow, not the greatest book, but
it was fine.
It was fine.
It's got some nuggets I saw,you know, like, but it's fun.
I mean, researching is so mucheasier now than when it used to
(14:36):
be.
You can just sit there at home,you can sit on the train and,
like Max said, whole movie's onYouTube.
You can watch some of thisstuff anytime you want and pause
it.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (14:50):
That's a very good point, and if it means
anything to you I don't know ifit should, but Roy Scheider is
the one that I had a crush on,so I'm just going to throw that
out there Without any spoilers,if that's at all possible.
Can you share your favoritemoment, what you enjoy playing
the most in this show?
Jeff Bender (15:10):
For me, there's a game that we play.
I don't want to give too muchaway, but we play to pass the
time.
These characters are playinggames while they're waiting to
fix the shark, and so there'sone game that we play in
particular that is very lively.
We're finding it's a reallygood group with the last couple
of rehearsals and I'm having ablast with it.
I think it's a lot of fun andthat's one of my favorite
(15:32):
moments.
Just the three of us, we foundthis groove and it's just been
joy.
I really enjoy it.
Max Wolkowitz (15:40):
Yeah, I think the game is certainly the most fun.
There's lots of like littlethings that I enjoy.
We have an unbelievablyvirtuosic prop master that is
giving us the most beautifulobjects to play with, and so,
for me, just every day there'snew toys in the room and with
(16:05):
more detail and more um texture,and so every day I'm like, how
can I spend more time in or Idon't even have to invest in
them because they're so, uh,rich.
I'm like, oh great, I can justbe here with these things and
and that's been a real joy forme on the in the process is just
like getting to work with thesegreat objects.
Jason Babinsky (16:28):
Yeah, I mean, jeff said it the most enjoyable
time that the characters have onstage is when they play this
game too.
So we're allowed to.
Actually, I mean, I guess it'sodd that the three actors were
kind of like that is the besttime.
Most of the time, the actorsare like well, I like it when we
go head-to-head and it's a bigemotional blow-up.
And this is actually three guyshaving an enjoyable time
(16:52):
playing a game, for the mostpart.
And it is the best time in theshow for us and I think the
audience.
It'll translate to them andthey'll go along the journey,
even you know, because we'regenuinely having a fun time
trying to beat one another.
Jeff Bender (17:08):
It's not the only thing that we do on the show.
I mean, it makes it sound likethat's like the only only we do.
Max Wolkowitz (17:12):
Also check in with us in three weeks.
We're still enjoying each other.
Jeff Bender (17:16):
I like them now, but yeah Well how long have you
been rehearsing?
Max Wolkowitz (17:25):
We're coming up to the end of our third week of
rehearsal.
We've been flying through.
We finished staging in like aweek and a half, so we've been
doing run-throughs, which in myexperience recently is unheard
of to have multiple run-throughsbefore we get to tech so we've
(17:45):
really been able to get into thenitty gritty of it in a great
way.
Yeah, but we've been workingfor three weeks.
We've got another like week anda half before our first
performance we go into tech aweek from today, tomorrow today
today next.
Jeff Bender (18:02):
Friday or Thursdays yeah, next week.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (18:05):
Well, it sounds like you guys make a
great team and have some greatchemistry, so I'm willing to bet
that you're still going to likeeach other another three weeks
from now.
So, fingers crossed though, Ithink so too.
Yeah, it's a safe bet.
If anybody's placing bets,now's the time.
Max Wolkowitz (18:21):
No, no, no no.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (18:23):
In your research.
Is there anything that you'vecome to love about the men that
you're playing, something thatyou hadn't known prior,
something that you reallyappreciate?
I'm seeing faces and reactionshere, so now I'm very curious.
Jason Babinsky (18:38):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's funny because this
was written by Robert's son andso he takes liberties with each
of these characters for bothgood and for bad and both for
comedic and dramatic purposes.
But Roy Scheider, playing forhis career like the heavy in a
lot of things, always playingcops, always the Jersey gravelly
kind of and he was.
(19:00):
When you watch interviews withhim, he's a bona fide dork and
so it's like I think that sideof it I didn't.
I didn't know much about royscheider prior to this.
I knew his movies and he'salways like you know, you're
like, yeah, there's that badasscop, like and and actually the
(19:21):
script leans into more of himbeing a nerd, and so that's been
.
The most enjoyable thing that Ifound out about Roy Scheider is
that he is not what he appearedon screen but somehow, mostly
because of his broken nose, hegot typecast as like he's that
guy and he played that guy a lot.
Jeff Bender (19:43):
I love that and I feel validated in my crush now
Watching Robert Shaw's.
Well, let me start off.
I love watching his films.
I think he's.
I really enjoy his movies.
My first taste of him was inBond, but I didn't know he was
in From Russia With Love, rightas the blonde, short, blonde
haired villain.
And then I saw him in Jaws andthen I didn't know they were the
(20:06):
same person.
But you see him in interviewsand he's kind of a pompous kind
of guy and he's very I don'tknow if you'd say full of
himself, but yeah, I could saythat and he's very intellectual,
he's very, he knows a lot ofthings and he has opinions about
all those things.
And so just to see his his reallife character as opposed to
the characters that he plays isvery interesting to me to see
(20:30):
the differences and how aboutfor?
Max Wolkowitz (20:33):
richard.
Um, I, I will say that, uh, Ilove playing richard dreyfus, in
part because I love playingRichard Dreyfuss, in part
because I love playing villains,and I think there is something
(20:55):
sort of mysteriously lovableabout this guy who is almost
entirely unredeemable, almostentirely unredeemable, and the
duality of that of this guy,who's like he's got a charm,
he's got a charisma, but he'skind of just a prick, is really
delicious to play and so likewatching interviews with him and
(21:20):
like seeing this young, crazy,ambitious guy who you know has a
bit of, I think, self-delusion,um, is is just like it's super
fun.
But in terms of like things Ifell in love with about Richard
Dreyfuss, not sure quite what tosay on that front.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (21:44):
Let's hope that this isn't the one episode
of Jersey Arts that RichardDreyfuss doesn't, do you know?
Jeff Bender (21:49):
what you know what Rick.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (21:51):
Bring it on.
Well, let's not end on thatnote.
Jason Babinsky (21:57):
We can't end on a come at me, bro.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (21:59):
Maybe I mean there's still time, but my
last question for you guys iswhat about this show is special
to you and why do you think Jawsfans, why would you encourage
Jaws fans to see this show andnon-Jaws fans?
Jason Babinsky (22:15):
Oh, it's great for Jaws fans right now.
I mean it's the 50thanniversary this year.
It's kind of like when themovie was coming out With the
book, the book didn't sell thatgreat in hardcover, and then
when we're later, I'm going totell you about the book.
I think it's a great movie.
It's a great play for Jaws fans.
Hands down, it's 50thanniversary.
Much like the book, when it wasin paperback it flew off the
(22:36):
shelves and that's when they hadit and they were figuring out
how to make it.
So there was all all this likesizzle behind it then.
And this is just a great yearto to do this play.
I mean they're going to bedoing shark fest out and jaws
fest out in martha's vineyardthis summer, so like we're kind
of like almost kicking it offout here, you know, in jersey,
like bringing jaws.
(22:57):
I yeah and I mean non-fans, Ithink will enjoy it too.
I like ever, because it's it'severybody's heard of the movie
yeah and and it's three, likethree guys, guys who have
big-ish personalities that arejust stuck together, and I
compared it to an officesituation where you're like
these are your co-workers.
They just happen to be threebig-name actors stuck in a tiny
(23:21):
little boat for a very long timethat are forced to get along
for whatever that means, and itdoesn't mean good things.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (23:30):
I think that's really relatable.
Jason Babinsky (23:32):
Yeah, everyone's got their, you know.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (23:35):
Absolutely so.
For people like me who wereafraid to watch Jaws, you guys
can still see it.
You don't have to be brave.
I was very brave.
I'm still telling myself that,but you don't have to be brave.
I was.
I was very brave.
I'm still telling myself that,but you don't have to be.
Jeff Bender (23:45):
You can see the show without having seen the
movie, you can see it withoutseeing jaws if you wish, but, uh
, I highly recommend seeing jaws.
Max Wolkowitz (23:51):
Yeah, yes, I'll also, I'll also say um, uh,
because this is my obsession,but like, our designers are also
fantastic.
And um, the set design, thecostume design we haven't seen
it yet, but the projectionssound incredible, the lighting,
like I'm so excited because ourdesigners have such attention to
(24:17):
detail.
So for obsessed fans like Jasonwho have seen the movie 30,000
times, they will be able to seelike, like little Easter eggs
throughout the play.
But for people who haven't seenthe movie, it just gives you
this great texture of like thisis a real place and these are
(24:39):
real people going through a realthing, and that's really
exciting.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (24:43):
Thank you so much for shouting out the
designers.
I love the design team.
Jeff Bender (24:46):
Amazing across the board.
Max Wolkowitz (24:47):
I'll also say that our director, peter Flynn,
is just phenomenal.
He is a true leader who leadswith kindness, and expertise
yeah, and that is honestly rarerthan it should be in this
industry.
(25:07):
And he cares so deeply bothabout the art we're making and
the people who are making theart, and that's a magical
combination.
Jeff Bender (25:18):
It's been a joy to come to rehearsal.
I love coming to work.
The stage management team issome of the best I've ever
worked with.
I mean, they're just fantastic.
They're on top of it and Iactually like my co -stars here.
They're actually really niceguys.
I mean, if you looked at themyou wouldn't think that, but
they are.
(25:38):
They're really nice.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (25:40):
When you have a cast that's this
comfortable joking around withone another and praising their
creative team, it's almostalways a safe bet that you've
got a great production on yourhands.
So if you're as into Hollywoodfoibles and behind-the-scenes
stories as I am, you may want tocheck out.
The Shark is Broken, nowrunning through May 18th at the
George Street Playhouse in NewBrunswick.
(26:01):
For tickets and moreinformation, be sure to visit
georgetreeplayhouseorg.
If you liked this episode, besure to review, subscribe and
tell your friends.
A transcript of this podcast,links relevant to the story and
more about the arts in NewJersey can be found at
jerseyartscom.
The Jersey Arts Podcast ispresented by Art Pride New
Jersey, advancing a state ofcreativity since 1986.
(26:24):
This show was co-founded by,and currently supported by,
funds from, the New Jersey StateCouncil on the Arts.
This episode was hosted, editedand produced by me, Gina Marie
Rodriguez.
Executive producers are JimAtkinson and Isaac Serna-Diez,
and my thanks, of course, toJeff Bender, Max Wolkowitz and
Jason Babinsky for speaking withme today.
(26:45):
I'm Gina Marie Rodriguez forthe Jersey Arts Podcast.
Thanks for listening.
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