Generational Commitment

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We've finally reached the conclusion of our Joshua study with a special milestone—the 50th episode of Jessi Morgan Devotions and our first-ever guest! AJ Donaldson joins me to explore the powerful theme of Generational Commitment found in Joshua's final chapters.

The story begins with a potential misunderstanding when the eastern tribes build an altar that appears rebellious but turns out to be a memorial for future generations. This teaches us about the danger of assumptions and the importance of seeking understanding before judgment. How often do we jump to conclusions without first asking questions?

Joshua's farewell speech warns against compromise and being unequally yoked—a lesson that resonates deeply in our relationships today. Just as Joshua cautioned the Israelites about marriage to pagans, we must consider how our closest relationships shape our faith journey and values. The people we surround ourselves with inevitably influence who we become.

The most powerful moment comes when Joshua establishes his final covenant, challenging the people with the famous declaration: "As for me and my household, we will serve the Lord." My conversation with AJ explores what this commitment looks like in modern life and how we create our own covenant relationships with God.

As Easter approaches, there's no better time to consider what resurrection looks like in your own life. What's your Jordan River to cross? What promised land awaits if you'll step forward in faith? Let this final Joshua study inspire you to embrace courage, commitment, and a covenant relationship with God that transforms not just your life, but generations to come.

Key Passages

Joshua 22, 23 & 24

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone.
Today is the 50th episode ofthe Jesse Morgan Devotion for
the Christian Heart Podcast.
I'm just so excited to concludethe study of Joshua.
Today's devotional is titledGenerational Commitment and we
have a special guest.
Our first guest on the podcastis today, to celebrate the
milestone.
Love you all, let's go.
Hi, I'm Jesse Morgan.

(00:23):
I used to just share home decorand renovation tips on social
media, but now I'm sharingsomething even closer to my
heart my journey and love forJesus Christ, my Savior.
Welcome to the Jessi MorganDevotions for the Christian Hawk
Podcast.
This is a weekly devotional.
I started back in May 2024, butthe inspiration for it came
much earlier.
It was rooted in a faithjourney that began when my

(00:45):
daughter was born, four monthsearly in 2023.
Through that challenging time,god worked in ways that truly
amazed me.
On this podcast, I sharepersonal stories of faith, woven
together with scripture, toshow just how incredible God's
word can be in our everydaylives.
My hope is that through thesestories, you'll be encouraged,
uplifted and reminded of God'slove and presence, no matter

(01:08):
what you're going through.
So I invite you to spend lessthan 15 minutes with me each
week as we reflect on thesedevotionals together.
Let's all pray withinGenerational Commitment.
Episode 50, key passages Joshua22 through 24.
Hey everyone, oh my gosh, canyou believe we've made it to the

(01:30):
final three chapters of Joshua,chapters 22, 23, and 24.
Deep, deep stuff.
And my gosh, this is it theconclusion of our study?
What a journey.
Honestly, I feel like I've beenallotted land myself just by
walking through this book withyou all.
I'll share more about that in abit, but let's jump into these

(01:52):
last chapters.
What's so beautiful is thateach one can stand on its own,
but together they wrap up thisstory with so much power.
This is why God's word is sotimeless.
It adjusts to where you are inlife and it speaks directly to
your heart in every season.
So let's start with Joshua 22.

(02:13):
Joshua 22 wraps up with all thetribes receiving their blessings
and their land.
Now remember, the tribes ofReuben, gad and part of Manasseh
had already been given theirland on the east side of the
Jordan before the battle ofJericho and everything that
followed.
But even though they alreadyhad their land, they still
crossed the Jordan and went intobattle with the rest of the

(02:34):
tribes.
That kind of loyalty is so rare.
Joshua thanked them and toldthem they were free to return to
their land, but before theycrossed back over, they built an
altar and immediately the othertribes saw it and were ready to
go to war.
Why?
Because building an altar likethat, outside of God's
instruction, looks like theywere turning against him.

(02:56):
So the other tribes were like,uh, we're not doing this again.
They assumed rebellion and theywere ready to fight, but
thankfully thankfully theydidn't jump the gun.
They sent elders to ask why didyou do this?
And this was a response fromReuben, gad and Manasseh tribes.

(03:17):
In Joshua 22, 24 through 27, itsays no, we did it for the fear
that someday your descendantsmight say to ours what do you

(03:38):
have to do with?
It says we said let us getready and build an altar, not
for burnt offerings or sacrifice, but as a witness between us
and you and the generations thatfollow, that we will worship
the Lord together.
Wow, they weren't rebelling.
They were making sure futuregenerations remember that they

(03:58):
all served the same God.
That altar wasn't for sacrificewas a memorial that reminded me
of a moment from when I was inthird grade.
Someone accused me of cheatingon a spanish test.
Someone assumed the worst of me, but I wasn't cheating.
I just couldn't see the board.
I needed glasses and hadn't toldmy mom yet I was literally

(04:20):
getting glasses later that dayafter school.
I should have told her weeksbefore, but I didn't.
But I leaned forward during atest, during a Spanish test, to
try and read the board and myteacher immediately walked over
and put a giant F on my paperand walked away, never asked me
what was going on.
I was devastated.

(04:41):
The next day I came in with mynew glasses and when she saw me
she was shocked.
I ended up retaking the testand got a B plus.
But that moment stuck with me.
She assumed worst and sherealized what happened.
She actually apologized and wemoved forward.
The lesson here don't assume,ask, just like the tribes did.

(05:03):
Imagine if they hadn't, if theyhad gone straight into battle
over a misunderstanding, what atragedy that would have been.
That could have affected somany things.
King david's lineage, which can, which also contributed to
jesus christ lineage.
Just imagine like, if certainthings just happened, it would
have messed up a lot of stuff.
So now let's go into Joshua 23.

(05:25):
Now this chapter feels likeJoshua's farewell speech a bit,
his final words as a leader.
He had led with such courageand faith and he warned the
people don't stray from God,don't marry into pagan families
Don't pick up their ways.
We all know the phrase beingequally yoked.

(05:45):
I agree with that.
But because, honestly, whenyou're with someone long enough,
their habits and their valuesstart to influence you, whether
you realize it or not.
I wasn't all that into healthyeating before I met my husband,
but he's a specimen Okay,incredible shape, always reading
labels, trying to try andcleaner options, and now I'm way

(06:09):
more aware of that.
I'm way more aware of what Iput in my body too.
I can't have a husband wholooks like he could go run a
marathon at any moment and Ilook like I haven't seen a
treadmill in 15 years.
No, but seriously, imagine beingwith someone who doesn't share
your faith.
That's a whole different level.
I had a childhood friend whoseparents had different religious

(06:32):
beliefs, neither Christian.
Just to get that out of the way, one day her dad just left Said
he was choosing his religionover his wife and three kids.
That was his final answer.
My mom told me that story andit broke my heart.
I'll never forget it.
God wants to be first in ourrelationships.

(06:53):
That was Joshua's plea to hispeople.
Don't compromise your faith.
They had come so far.
Why risk losing it all?
I mean you, can you know?
Could you imagine me a womanhosting a Christian, faith-based
podcast, married to an atheist?
I couldn't do it.
I love Jesus too much, sorry.

(07:16):
So on to chapter 24, finalchapter of the book of Joshua.
This one is just so good to me.
So in Joshua 24, joshua is now110 years old and before he dies
, he makes one final covenantwith the people.
Let's look at Joshua 24, 25 to27.
It says on that day, joshuamade a covenant for the people.

(07:38):
He took a large stone and saidthis stone will be a witness
against us.
It has heard all the words theLord has said to us.
It will be a witness againstyou if you are untrue to your
God.
So let me just ask you thisquestion, my friends.
Today this is me talking to you.
What is your covenant with God?

(08:01):
What's your commitment?
We know salvation isfoundational, but beyond that,
what does your relationship withGod look like?
What promises have you made?
I looked it up Covenant inHebrew is beret and if I said
that correctly, if I didn'tforgive me and it doesn't just

(08:21):
mean contract, it's arelationship built on promises.
So how will you uphold yourpromises to God?
What will you do to keep himfirst.
For me, it's this podcast.
It's my anchor.
It keeps me in the word, itkeeps me reflecting, it makes me
better.
I honestly don't know what myspiritual life would look like

(08:42):
without it.
I thank God for this space.
All the time and here's thething Through every trial Israel
faced, the one thing remainedGod was there.
From Jericho's walls falling tothe land being distributed to
every tribe, god was there everysingle step.
So I ask you again are youdepending on God completely?

(09:05):
What is your commitment to God?
Are you committed completely?
If not, why not?
Because, let's be real, godcan't give you your promised
land if you're still acting likeyou're in the wilderness.
That's old, doubtful,self-reliant version of you.
It needs to die off.
You need to be the newgeneration, the one that steps

(09:31):
forward with faith and obedience, because the most memorable
verse in all of Joshua sums itup perfectly Joshua 24, 15.
But, as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.
Amen, let's pray, heavenlyFather.
We will serve the Lord.
Amen, let's pray, heavenlyFather.
Thank you for this study ofJoshua.
What a blessing it's been,whether it was one word or one

(09:53):
breakthrough.
I pray that someone listeningwas impacted.
Thank you for always being near, for guiding us and for never
giving up on us as we reflect onJoshua's courage and leadership
.
Help us to walk in that samefaith and Lord, as Easter
approaches.
Thank you for Jesus, thank youfor the cross, thank you for the

(10:13):
empty tomb, thank you for thehope.
We love you, we honor you.
We give you all the praise InJesus' name, amen.
Well, friends, that wraps upour study of Joshua.
Again, thank you for walkingthis journey with me.
It's been so special and I'mpraying that it encouraged your

(10:34):
faith.
Let's be that Joshua.
Let's be that generation fullof boldness, full of obedience,
full of love, a generation thatputs God first, no matter what.
And hey, don't go anywhere justyet.
Jesse Morgan Devotions Behindthe Scenes.

(10:54):
Starting right now, okay,welcome to Behind the Scenes of
Jesse Morgan Devotions for theChristian Heart.
I'm so excited today because,for the first time, I'm going to

(11:15):
have a guest accompany me on mypodcast, and I'm so excited to
introduce a person that I haveknown for most of my life.
He is the brother that I neverhad and my parents view him as
my big brother, basically, andI'm so excited today to have AJ
Donaldson on the podcast with me.
Hello, my brother.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
Wagua and sisterin.
How you doing, sister, I'mgoing to bring you into.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Jamaica a little bit.
I am awesome.
I'm so excited to have you onmy 50th episode, that's right.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yes, I'm so excited.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yes, I'm so excited.
I know it's so crazy.
In May of last year I startedthis journey, so I'm just so
thankful for it and I wanted todo something special today.
So having you on here, I justthink it's just perfect segue
into, like basically continuingwhat I discussed in my
devotional today, when we talkabout being unequally yoked,

(12:11):
commitment, generationalcovenant with the Lord and
things like that to reallyconclude our study with Joshua.
I think Joshua has been one ofthe best studies I've ever done.
I have never studied it in mylife and going through it from
January to now has been such ablessing.
So I just wanted to have you onhere today just to discuss some
of those topics and things likethat.

(12:32):
So the first thing first, tellme a little bit about you, like
share a little bit about yourbackground.
I just want people to know howawesome you are and how we are
so connected.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
Share a little bit of background about myself.
Well, before I do that, I wantto definitely thank you for
having me on.
It is an absolute honor notjust a privilege, but an
absolute honor.
50 podcasts almost a year later, to get to that point that's a
huge milestone.
I know that's not easy.
I know editing these things,taking the time on a Monday

(13:02):
evening, like right now, to evendo this, it was quite a
commitment.
So very proud of you, veryhappy that you have found a
platform where you can pour alot of your spirit, a lot of
your talk right, a lot of yourinnovations and things, your
outlooks on life, yourperspectives.
So I'm happy that you have aplace, because otherwise you was
going to call me and tell meabout it anyway.

(13:22):
So I'm glad there's a place youcan place it Amen.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
I know I'll be like AJ.
I need to talk to you aboutthis.
You're like Jess let me put youin the schedule, let me put you
in my calendar.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
There's a few people who know Jessica, not just
McNeil, but Clark is saying amen, aj, we hear you.
We love Jessica very much andshe definitely has the gift of
gap.
We know that for sure.
So if she, you know, using herpowers for good, she's now using
her powers for good in the mostbeautiful way as possible.
But a little bit about myself.
Like Jessica mentioned, I'm thebrother she never had.

(13:57):
She made me, never wanted.
You know, thinking and debatingabout that, we go way, way, way
back.
Even funny, because when sheshared the notes with me leading
up to this particular podcastand this episode, I felt
immediate flashback to ourmutual high school that we
graduated from several yearsprior to her, as she said, big

(14:19):
brother, and was a littlenervous but was happy to have
those notes because it gave me alot of beautiful context and in
that context, to share a littlebit about who I am in the world
and how I choose to show up,growing up in private schools,
growing up in a Christian home,by way of my mother, my late
mother, yvonne Donaldson.

(14:40):
It was very much spare the rod,spoil the child.
It was very much spare the rod,spoil the child.
My mom absolutely put the D indiscipline, no idle hands at any
time.
There was your grades, and, yes, I love sports.
I had the privilege of playingUniversity of Miami football,
but grades were first.
That was actually not my claimto fame.
My claim to fame really is thefact that I was a 4.0 GPA SAT

(15:08):
score, primarily math as justthe help to tutor her in math,
literally student number one ofone of my companies.
But yeah, it was.
It was really about the impactmy mother made in my life, the
sacrifice of a single momallowing me to be in a position
where not only did I get a fullacademic scholarship to the
University of Miami, I had theprivilege of playing football,
but I also played jazz,saxophone and classical piano.
I don't say that about me, tobrag about me.

(15:30):
I say that because, in honor ofmy mother, who I lost two years
ago, and in honor of her andher legacy, I continue to work
for the community with thecommunity, through my foundation
called the EPIC Foundation EPICExperienced Professionals,
impacting Communities.
Jessica, what if I told you?
This foundation started withtwo kids at our alma mater two

(15:52):
kids, $1,000, just so they cango on their senior trip?
Because we were frustrated,right, sis, we were frustrated
that these kids that were comingfrom low-income homes and given
an opportunity to go to aprivate school, through Step Up
and McKay and all thesedifferent academic access points
, was not given the opportunityto be able to have that full

(16:12):
experience that we had asseniors.
Right, right, those two kids 11years ago this month, april
2025, so 11 years ago, that'sright.
11 years ago, jessica.
Our two kids, we, we have nowsurpassed.
You're ready for this?
1200 students impacted.
Over a half a million dollarsclose closing $500,000 given

(16:36):
away in scholarships andprogramming oh my gosh, I didn't
realize that.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Oh my, this is like perfect.
You're on today 1200 students,you have touched with the
founding.
That's wow.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah, wow, I can't believe it's 11 years AJ.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Oh, I feel old.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
Okay, what about me?
Imagine me now.
Come on dog, come on Listen, ohwow.
You know, senior symposiums andall those events, symposiums
and all those events Shout outto Josh Diegas, who's now the
mayor of Miami Lakes.
That's right.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
One of my yeah, that's crazy is a mayor.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
That is insane.
That's insane.
I've been around a long timejust starting off young until we
only have a few years.
I say a few years, but severalyears apart.
But the dynamics of formerstudents was United Mentors,
academic mentoring and tutoring,the Epic Foundation, you know.
Now there's other companiesthat I work with and have
founded.
So, girl, I could do this allday.

(17:29):
There's a lot going on to saythe least.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
I.
You know what that's so awesome?
It's just it's so neat to seelike where you've like, where
you have evolved and like whereyou started with me and people,
just really quick.
Like you mentioned, aj was mytutor in high school.
I was, I think I was a juniorand I was in trigonometry honors
.
If you know me, I was nevergreat at math.

(17:56):
Not that I wasn't good at math,I was terrified.
It was like a phobia, and so Iwas always an honor student.
Anyway, I always took advancedcourses, but I never took
advanced courses in math becauseI was always an honor student.
Anyway, I always took advancedcourses, but I never took
advanced courses in math becauseI was terrified.
But that year I had no choice.
I had to take it because I hadto take some other AP courses.
So I was taking it and I justfreaked out and I was failing

(18:16):
and I just our teacher wasn'tthat great and my dad was like.
I came into my parents' roomcrying and my dad's like oh,
we'll call AJ.
My mom looked at my dad.
Like AJ, aj Donaldson's likeyeah, we'll call AJ.
And I'm like what, what does AJhave to do with me?
Like failing trigonometry.
And I totally didn't know, aj,that you majored in engineering

(18:38):
and you like saved me and likehalf of the junior class that
year and like that was like yourfirst established business was
your tutoring business.
So that's literally like why AJand I are connected, like I kind
of started his whole thing no,I'm kidding, but to an extent I
did and I'm so grateful becausehe helped me get through math
and like kind of build thatconfidence in math, because

(18:59):
nowadays, even what I do now, Ihave dealt with retail square
footage dollars per square foot,financing, budget headcount,
all that stuff and I alwaysthink about you because you
helped me get through and havethat confidence to actually like
succeed and math and it's funnybecause what you're speaking

(19:20):
towards, you know, some, in somecontext they will talk about,
or some environments, arenas,they'll talk about test anxiety,
you know.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
So, some in some contexts they'll talk about, or
some environments, arenas,they'll talk about test anxiety,
you know.
So, talking about the, thepsychoeducation aspect that we
overlook, right, the fact thatyou were terrified when you use
the word terrified, right, thatis, that is an intentional word
that she used.
There there was literallyterror.
And where did that come from?
You know, being a high achievingstudent, as it was always doing

(19:46):
well in school, but there wasthis one subject and a lot of
times, this is a big part of ourplatform, united Mentors, where
we talk about mentoring, worksover tutoring, over teaching,
over schooling, because schoolis not enough.
The reason why it is soimportant that we actually speak
into that is because there's alot of different uh, let's call
them employees that are in thissystem.

(20:07):
Right, called the quote,unquote education department,
which we need to kind of reframethat and call it a school
system, because there's adifference between schooling and
education, right, right, hugedifference between schooling and
education.
Um, and so within that, we hadto address that.
You know, we had to put themath aside for a moment, like
hold on, forget the trig bookfor a moment.

(20:29):
Who hurts you?

Speaker 1 (20:31):
I know right who kills your confidence.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
This is not the just guy.
No, in the other six subjects,what's going on?
And then, if you really go backin time, it's almost like
you're sitting on that leathercouch.
Oh, it all started when I wasin fourth grade and this one
teacher, mr, mr, so-and-so andlike there you go and then it
just matriculates.
It's a snowball effect.
Year after year after yearafter year.

(20:57):
Then you get to a junior andfeel like you are quote-unquote
bad at math.
And it couldn't be further fromthe truth.
It couldn't be right, it wasjust a, it was a frame, it was a
programming that came in fromyears and years and years of
poor instruction right, that'strue, poor instruction.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
You know what that's so funny just to mention all
this, like thinking about, like,why, what triggered me from
being terrified of math, thosethings.
And it's so interesting just tolook now that, like, if I take
that mindset and move it into,like our study of Joshua, and I
think about you know how heentered the promised land with
all these Israelites newgeneration remember because the

(21:37):
old generation died out in thewilderness and it was like that
old generation had such fear ofentering the promised land and
you had to sit there and thinkabout, well, why do they have
all this fear?
And you think about, yes, theysaw Canaan, they saw giants.
They're like there's no way wecould enter this promised land,
there's absolutely no way weshould go back to Egypt.

(21:59):
And I always read that and I'mthinking to myself how could you
go back to horrible slavery inEgypt?
Because you're terrified toenter the promised land after
God had already parted the RedSea?
Like I still don't understandthat.
But it's interesting becauseyou know what that is.
That's fear, that's sin, that'sallowing Satan to get in your

(22:21):
mind, that's allowing him tomake you forget what God can do.
And I think it's justinteresting, like mentioning the
math and how that fear itprohibited me at times of moving
forward in my career even.
And so the same thing withIsrael.
It prohibited them fromentering the promised land
immediately and that generationdied off and the offspring that

(22:44):
generation was able to enter,but it was put 40 years to go
through all that mess beforethey could actually enter.
And they had to forget thatfear, cross that Jordan River
and enter.
You know what I mean.
And the same thing it made mehave to, like, get through that
fear of math and all thosethings, because if I couldn't
get over that, aj, honestly Iwouldn't be able to deal with

(23:09):
the work that I, that I do now,or the work that I did when I
was in Macy's.
I wouldn't be able to go there,go there, you know, and even my
endeavor, like the things I'mtrying to move forward and do
now and take on.
I wouldn't be able to do thatwithout that confidence that was
built, that knowing that, okay,I can get through math, I can
get through things.
And I know it sounds crazy tocompare the two, but it really.

(23:32):
It's like it comes full circle,you know.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
It's absolutely parallel, 100%.
I mean.
This is where you're developingas a young adult, right?
A young, a child, from a babyto you can think about the
entire context of k through 12thgrade.
You were a lifer.
We used to call you a liferright, you're in k all the way
through 12th grade.
Um, so, from baby kindergarten,five, six and all of a sudden,
so you've grown up within thisenvironment of school, right,

(23:59):
private school is stillschooling.
And survivor brain is a truething.
Cortisol, endorphins, all thechemical reactions that happen
in our brains and our bodies.
This is a real thing.
When fear comes in, a survivalbrain is triggered.
You're going to go on survivalbrain and it's like a, a fight
or flight, you know, flee freeze, like all these things are

(24:21):
happening, right, and it's like,well, we're focused on math
within the context of mathitself.
I'm still a human being dealingwith it, right?
So when you're talking about you, know, joshua, and when you
talk about the, the 40 years,right, but this is coming.
This is a generation that wasraised in bondage.

(24:42):
They need nothing else, right?
We're not necessarily talkingabout the generation before them
and the generation before thatgeneration.
This was a generational thing,right?
400 years, right, right.
So, even even within the 40years that they're in the
wilderness.
When you go back, a friend ofmine I got to give him a big
shout out.
Uh, I'm gonna call him reverend.

(25:03):
He ain't a reverend, but that'smy boy, monty Benjamin.
He gave me something that wasvery profound, right and for me
to learn this now in my fortiesI paid forward to the next
generation says when you aregiven scripture, right, when
you're in a church environment,any, I don't care if you're in a
Bible class, when you're givena scripture, you need to

(25:29):
understand the context.
I joke with the youth.
I say well, hey, everybodyknows I don't care if you're
saved, not saved, secular, notsecular.
Everybody knows john 3, 16,right, god so loved the what
world?
and then they just keep goingyeah, and they're just so
excited because they knowsomething.
They know something right, theyknow something right.
Everybody wants to be seen,heard and understood.

(25:51):
So because they know something,they're excited to recite it.
And then I say, well, you knowwhat?
It was very interesting.
That is John 3, 16.
This is my math a little bit.
You know, fun, fun.
Did you know there's a John 3,16.
This is my math a little bit.
You know, fun, fun.
Did you know there's?

Speaker 1 (26:09):
a John 3, 15?

Speaker 2 (26:10):
They probably get you like yeah, but what about those
, you know, 15 verses beforeJohn 3, 16?
Yeah, what about the twochapters before chapter three of
John?
Right, it's the context.
So you have to be careful,because you can almost make the

(26:32):
Bible say whatever you want itto say.
Right, absolutely.
That's a scary thing.
Yeah, it is the people, thehumans, right, that we are
codependent on, be it if it's apastor or a teacher.
We need, as an individual, todo our own study, we need to

(26:55):
research and make sure that thisinformation is given in the
right context, not just suitingan agenda.
Right, amen, amen, thank you.
So then, when we're talkingabout the children of Israel,
what about the generationsbefore those 40 years we're
always talking about?
They were in the wilderness for40 years and they didn't want
to pagan, and I can't believethey needed to die.

(27:20):
Okay, got it, but let's back upa little bit.
They were programmed.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah, they were, they were programmed, they were a
little bit Yep.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
Generation after generation prior to that, before
they were delivered.
I don't remember.
I'm not a Bible scholar, so Idon't know what the generations
or how many years it was 100years, 200 years, whatever.
It was About 400.
Right, 400 years of slavery.
You know how many generationswent through that?
Yeah, that's a lot of slaveryyou know how many generations

(27:52):
went through that.
Yeah, that's a lot, holy cow.
Now you want me to.
You know, you can't teach itall.
Old dog, new trick like yes, Isaw the red sea, I saw the
pillow smoke.
And yes, for us on the outsidelooking in, you're like stupid.
Like did you?

Speaker 1 (28:03):
I know it's like how can you?
Yeah, yeah, I get what you'resaying, but can you?

Speaker 2 (28:06):
imagine when jesus god, up there, looks at us doing
some of the things over andover and over, expecting a
different outcome.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
Right, yeah, you know what.
You're absolutely right, Ithink it's.
I think that's why it's sointeresting.
I think, like you said, we'vealways focused in on, like you
know, the previous or like this,one portion of, like the
Israelites and things like that,and think about the ones that
they were born into slavery,like this is what, this is, who
they were, and it's like how doyou really change that?

(28:37):
You know, and it's and it seemskind of, you know, tough at
times that you know they diedoff in the wilderness.
But sometimes you, like yousaid, you can't teach an old dog
new tricks and you have tostart over per se.
And that's where that teachingold dog new tricks and you have
to start over per se, and that'swhere that that offspring, that
next generation, entering, youknow, the promised land.
That's the type of generationthat we needed to carry on to go

(28:58):
, you know, to go through thatwith Joshua, and Joshua was the
only one other than Caleb fromthe previous generation that got
to enter the promised land.
So it was interesting having,when I deal, when I really think
about Joshua, like the faiththat he had to lead a very
inexperienced group of people.
They could, they didn't knowhow to fight.
They didn't they didn't know howto do anything.
I mean, it was really, if youreally think about it, I'm like,

(29:20):
oh my gosh, they lived off ofmanna and they were just in the
wilderness for 40 years.
They weren't getting theirprotein and you know, with the,

(29:47):
with the arc and everything like, and they just, they just
followed, they follow whatJoshua told them to do circling
Jericho seven times.
They invaded AI, another townby.
You know, it's just all thethings that they did and they
had no experience.
And it's amazing how that oldgeneration had to die off for

(30:07):
the new to really succeed andmove forward.
And I think with this study,for me I've learned, like that
old Jess, the one that wasreally self, a little bit
self-absorbed, only looked atthe worst, the fear it's like I
had to that generation of myselfhas really needed to die off

(30:27):
and I need that new generation,that Joshua generation, to take
over that has full obedience inGod, that trusts God completely,
doesn't understand everythingall the time, but knows that God
has a plan and God has adetailed plan that he's going to
fulfill.
If I do my part, if I have thatcommitment to him, those are
the things that I've just reallybeen able to apply to my life.

(30:49):
By studying Joshua, you knowwhat I mean.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
so now, that's profound, and you said something
.
You know the the content.
What you said just now about,uh, joshua and Canaan, I think
you said who was the other one,who was?

Speaker 1 (31:02):
allowed Caleb.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
Caleb.
Yep.
So remember, with Moses beingthe elder.
At the time, joshua was theyouth, yeah, then, over 40 years
, right, moses struck the rock.
All the things you can't gointo promised land.
I'm going to have to take youout of here, right?
But Joshua at that point wasnow an elder.
Yeah, was underneath thementorship right of this

(31:33):
gentleman who did not.
He didn't want to go into apharaoh's court and deliver the
israelites in the first place.
He didn't want, he's like no I'mnot the guy and and god is like
yes, you are, be obedient, godo what I tell you to do, right?
So there's, there's all of thatlike when we talk about fear in
context.
You know what kind of fear,right?
we have the fear of failure.
You've got the fear ofrejection.

(31:55):
You've got all these differentversions of fear, right?
Um, if we spoke into, forexample, the fear of rejection,
that's a lie, right?
You, you, you apply for a joband they quote unquote reject
you.
You don't know what the contextwas.
It wasn't like something'swrong with you and you're a bad
person and you fail.
No, it was circumstantial,right, the circumstance of the

(32:16):
line.
God didn't call you to do thisparticular thing, so he didn't
allow the things to align foryou to get that.
Yes, so it's actually in yourbenefit, right?
There's a lesson, not a loss,here, and then you can apply it
and then be delivered in abeautiful way.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
Lesson, not a loss.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah, I love that Different elves right Different
elves.
Yes, so in that, when you're nottalking about this eldership
being passed down anddisseminated, that mentorship
which you know, I'm all aboutmentorship.
So the eldership of Joshuabeing right there on his hip,
learning everything he learned.
So it matriculated, it waspassed down to Joshua to then

(32:54):
make him a leader of leaders.
So now he is allowed, as yousaid, right into the promised
land with the next generation.
But they still neededleadership.
Right, you said somethingprofound there was an old
generation, there was the oldgeneration of what raised Jess.
Right?
Of course, mama Rhonda can dono wrong in the world.
Do you want to save?

Speaker 1 (33:14):
it up, my beautiful mother.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
Do you not edit this out right?
I will not If.
Rhonda McNeil.
If we found out that RhondaMcNeil actually held up a bank
at some point, the firstquestion that anybody who knows
her would say what did the bankdo?

Speaker 1 (33:35):
my mom's pretty.
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
That's true, it's true and even the saint that she
is.
At the end of day, she comesfrom an older generation who
even raised her.
And then there was a generationyou know your grandmother, your
grandmother's mother, yourgrandmother's grandmother right,
we really start going down.
Bear with me here, sis.
We start really going down incontext of the generations

(34:02):
raising other generations.
There were things that died off, that had to die off with these
new generations.
Your mother never saw slavery,no, period.
I, you, we never saw slavery.
Your mama never saw slavery.
You know, your mother's mothermost likely didn't see slavery,
right?
No, racism, yes, yes, yes.

(34:26):
Slavery, no.
Now, in the context of slavery,right, how disgusting a thing
that is.
Who started it?
If you keep going back, who arewe going to point the finger at
?
Because the Israelites, right,who were not of a most likely of
the brownish tone, maybe alsoenslaved by people who looked

(34:50):
like them, right?
Yeah, that's true.
And when we talk about, we'redescendants of Nubian princes
and kings and we're queens and,yes, they had slaves.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Yes, they did, yes, they did.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
So, instead of sticking to the generational
curse that that was, weacknowledge it, we see that it
happened, we say that was wrong,we don't carry it into the new
generation, we leave it behind,we allow the healing to happen,
right that part of you had todie off, so you can focus on
what Jesus, what God, hasdelivered you to Right, and so

(35:30):
that you can continue beyond thefear that was programmed into
you.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
Right, absolutely.
You know what, though?
Oh God, aj, you just alwaysjust come with just knowledge.
That's what I love about you,man.
But you know what that's so?
True, it's just and I think,like I said, like this study of
Joshua just opened my eyes.
It's just and I think, like Isaid, like this study of Joshua
just opened my eyes, it's justsuch a.
It's an interesting book thatobviously talks about, you know,

(35:56):
the promised land and everysingle tribe was allotted their
land, you know, and God promisedthat they would have this
allotment of land back withAbraham and he kept his promise.
And I think what blew my mindwith Joshua exactly was the
level of detail, like, if youreally go through like I think
it's like Joshua, 18 to like 23,.

(36:16):
They, he goes in, they go intodetail about who gets what land,
the town, the corner, thediameter of the like I have
never seen.
And as I read through it, I'msitting here like, okay, this is
just sharing land.
Like, what does this have to dowith anything?
Like really like, what's thelesson here?
But the more that I reallylooked into it, I was like, god

(36:38):
fulfills promises.
He fulfills every detail.
It doesn't matter what it is,he's going to fulfill the detail
.
Then the deep, everythingthat's in the details really
tells the story.
It tells the you know the realtruth of what he's trying to get
out of it and as I kept readingit again, you mentioned like

(37:00):
that old generation had to dieoff, that old generation would
not have succeeded in what thatjoshua generation went through
they just wouldn't they wouldhave not, it wouldn't have
worked.
And that's why I think us, ashuman beings, we have to be able
to learn how to move forward,and we can't bring, sometimes,

(37:20):
we can't bring that baggage withus.
We can bring the lessons, butwe can't bring the baggage.
It's almost like dating.
It's like you can't bring them.
You had all this trust issueswith your last relationship and
you bring that into the new.
It's not gonna work, we allknow, and the only way to do
that is healing.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
Yes, and it's healing , and it and some people just
haven't done that right there,to your point it's hard when we
talk about that, that generationthat was circling, circling,
circling there was a uh, almostlike a refusal to heal.
Right, they were they werecarrying that burden.
They were carrying that, that,that pain, and they were about

(37:59):
to carry it into the promisedland.
And god's like, nah, bro, likeI can't, I can't let you carry
that into the promised land.
Yeah, you can heal, and this istoday, like this is still in
reference.
Today it is you can heal, orright, right, heal or or period
right.
So, like we said, you do thesame thing over and over again,

(38:22):
expecting a different outcome.
Do the same thing over again.
That's the definition of whatinsanity.
Insanity, right.
If you're not healing, ifyou're not looking at these
lessons, seeing yourself in it,see where you fell short, not
just what the person did to you.
Where did I?
Because I chose that person,right, I, I chose to be with

(38:44):
that person, to spend time withthat person.
I chose not to leave thatperson earlier it okay.
So what's the lesson for youversus I can't believe that
person did that to me and we'restuck yeah, it's a person, or
even like a situation, like youput yourself in that situation.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
You chose to go here, like why did you do that?
You know, um, it could reallythat could just be any type of
scenario for for real.
So you have to look yourself.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
You have to look to yourself, you have to really
look to yourself and you havethat generation.
You chose not to.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
You're going to circle and circle and circle
until the end period, yeah,until you end that self denial
of realizing that you got toheal, you got to move forward,
you got to let God take care ofit.
You can't keep harping on whatwas.
You know, you gotta harp, yougotta focus on what it's going
to be.
You know, and I think that'swhere I just feel like, again,

(39:36):
this book has just pushed meinto the possibilities like what
can happen.
And you know, and I thinkthat's where I just really love
Joshua so much.
And I just want to ask you areal quick question, aj, like
when I look at, when I look atyou, you touch about leadership.
You've touched about, you know,courage and things like that.
What does courage look like foryou in your walk with Christ

(40:01):
today?

Speaker 2 (40:03):
Oh, wow.
So that's a great question.
Thank you, first and foremost,how would I define courage?
Number one, the biggest thingfor me, and not to go to
Webster's dictionary and allthose things what always stands
out for me?
And the same thing I tell myson and any young person who's
in my purview.
I always tell them that courageis not the absence of fear,

(40:27):
it's not the absence of fear 'squite the opposite.
Right, courage is the fact thatyou're willing to make a
decision, you're willing to moveforward despite the presence of
fear.
Right, the fear is there, it isreal.
You're human.
Sorry, right, sorry, but youare, but it's, it's in the fear.

(40:49):
Me still choosing to forward,me still choosing to take an
action despite my fear, despitethe fear that is present To me.
That's courage.
Right, that is how I findcourage.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
That's also faith.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
Hello, right, that's also faith.
So that courage and that faithparallel goes right back into
our walk, right?
So how does courage come up?
For me it's like, well, everyday being in a surrender posture
ain't easy, right.
Fear will come up, that fullsurrender to your higher self,

(41:25):
your higher power, you're right,to your, to the divinity, to
the holy Holy Trinity, in that,despite all of our shortcomings,
all of our sin and all thethings you want nobody to know
about I don't know why nobodyknows what's in my closet and
the things I do behind scenes,no, but in David, the Bible says
the Word says God sees all ofit.

(41:46):
It's all sin, it's all outsideof my will.
For you, so, despite if it'slike, hey, you watch something
you wasn't supposed to watch oryou murder somebody and people
are like what, how can that?

Speaker 1 (41:54):
again you can't lean on your own understanding as a
human right.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
It's hard for you to understand how in God's didn't
say Jesus, but in God's court,right, it's all the same.
You're not in my will.
You're not in my will.
It separates you from me, period, right, no matter what it is,
it separates you from me, whichis why I had to send Jesus Right
To live amongst you for 33years.
Right, all God incarnated, herein this place to live a perfect

(42:22):
life.
Now, wait a minute, pause for aminute.
Oh, we don't get risque for aminute.
Ooh, we're going to get risque.
I don't know if you want to keepthis in the podcast, because
when you start talking about aperfect life, he led the perfect
human life.
He led the perfect human life.

(42:43):
But humanity is imperfection,right, it's imperfect.
So what does the Bible, whatdoes the church say?
And, mind you, there'll be alot of justifications and
context and perspectives, andperspectives and projections and
all the different things.
But what is the context of Jesusgetting upset in the square,
flipping tables?
Oh, we don't want to talk aboutthat, do we?

(43:03):
We want to make sure we kind ofskip over that chapter, skip
over that context.
But hold on, he was showinghumanity, he was frustrated, he
was righteous, he was justified.
Just like if a parent decidesto discipline their child, right
, we are his children, right.

(43:24):
So, giving us that discipline,I want to make sure I give that
in context.
Giving us that discipline.
I want to make sure I give thatin context.
Giving us that discipline washard.
It was not.
It was not a soft right, uh, no, my guy had to flip tables like
he had to show you what's up.
Daddy stepped up.
You know, my mama was like justwait till your daddy get home

(43:49):
yeah, all right everybody youmeet, even a grown man right now
, is like, even if you didn'thave a daddy, even then you hear
, you feel it, you like it's,it's genetically programmed into
us that that, that that rolethat a father plays, that a
father plays in this world rightnow, that a lot of times is
absent right it's absent.

(44:12):
Yeah, the generation offatherlessness, because and I
don't mean just hey, he didn'tdo what he was supposed to do
when it comes to fathering hisoffspring.
But even if he's present, hemay be working two, three jobs
yeah, that's, that's ourgeneration right now yeah, right
, right, there's so much in that, right, there's so much in that

(44:35):
.
but ultimately we got tounderstand we are imperfect, we
are human and we aspire to bechrist-like.
So I I want to digress, butultimately, my the courage I've
now reached is, despite all myshortcomings, because people who
know me from college last yeargirl, like what you mean, like I

(44:56):
am wide, open, transparent youknow they were like, well, he
was, he was out with me doingdah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.
Okay, yes, absolutely, I am asinner.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
Yeah, I'm like and we all are.
I am a sinner, yeah, I'm like,and we all are.
Hey, I know.
And you know what, though Ithink that's so important to
mention?
Cause I think you know, we knowhow this the world kind of
depicts Christians, and you knowpeople have.
You know God and you know Jesus, jesus followers, unfortunately
, yes.

(45:38):
A lot of the people in thechurch and followers have not
done the best job ofacknowledging that they're not
perfect either.
And one thing I've reallylearned is one thing that's
frustrated me, probably in thelast year or so, is the amount
of judgment that we are seeing.
Is the amount of judgment thatwe are seeing.
And so when I look at thechurch, for example, I just feel
like the church is supposed to.
You know ministry, you'resupposed to.

(46:00):
You know missionaries, you'resupposed to go out into the
community, you're supposed tobring people in, you're supposed
to.
You know that type of thing.
And I just feel like not allchurches, of course, like my
church, I go to love them, butthere's a lot of churches, in my
opinion, that they have becomelazy and we I know I'm going to
say it and I know it's not thebest thing ever, but I think at

(46:20):
some point we had some churcheshave become lazy and the point
of not putting in the effort tobring people in versus just
condemning, versus just makingsomebody feel alienated and not
welcomed how are we supposed toshare how amazing Jesus Christ
is if we, as Christians, don'tput the effort that we're

(46:40):
supposed to?
And so, again, if you go backinto Joshua, joshua's farewell
address in, like chapter 23, ittalked about protect this house,
you know, don't?
You know?
Protect this house.
We've worked so hard to getthis land.
Keep God first.

(47:01):
Cling to him, you know, andclinging to him means, you know,
maintaining that relationshipwith him and then also bringing
other people into his arms aswell.
Like that's what that is.
It's about showcasing howamazing God has been for me, for
example, and I want people tounderstand that and understand

(47:22):
that they can have that too.
And then understand too thatI'm not perfect, like I'm not
here telling you I'm perfect,I'm not, and I just think as
Christians some Christians weneed to do a better job of
acknowledging the sin that we'vedone and how we have worked to
get better work, to heal, work,to move forward.
We cannot sit here and be lazyand just criticize, and that's

(47:44):
why, you know, there's peoplethat don't even want to come to
church.
There's people that have turnedaway from God because of the
actions of some people that saidthey're all for God.
We, we gotta I think peoplegotta, like we gotta read more
than just, you know, john 3, 16.
We gotta do a little bit moreto.
You know we gotta do our partas Christians.
We gotta do better.
And so that's why, like, thisstudy was so important to me,

(48:07):
because I've just so many peopleI've connected with they've
never even touched the stufflike the book of Joshua.
They've never touched it.
It's usually like you know thegospels and you know Genesis and
but no one really has dug intothat I've heard of for me, like
Joshua, you know what I mean.
So that's why I wanted to trysomething different, push a

(48:28):
boundary a bit, and I know todayI pushed that boundary talking
about sometimes the church islazy, but you know what I
think they are because you gotto go out and minister.
You have to do your part.
You cannot just condemn and sayokay, we just want the right
people.
The worst person should begoing to church and you are

(48:49):
supposed to witness and let themsee how great God can be for
them.
You're supposed to plant theseed and move on.
You're not supposed to condemnand be all over them and like.
That's something I've learned,too is I want to plant a seed.
However, I do it subtly.
What fourth?
And I move on.
I'm not going to sit here andberate you because you haven't
been to church ever.

(49:09):
I'm not going to do here andberate you because you haven't
been to church.
I'm not going to do that.
How am I going to get somebodyto come to church if I'm doing
that?

Speaker 2 (49:14):
Isn't that what he said?
Ye, with no faith, be ye,whatever the word was.
With no faith, cast the firststone, go ahead, you good too,
you perfect too.
What?

Speaker 1 (49:25):
was you doing with?

Speaker 2 (49:26):
her the other day.
Come on, I love that convictionbecause he's like you said, is
not allowing yourself to be puton a pedestal, right, right, so,
if I use the word complacent,right, because it's easier just
to condemn right and cast outversus to maintain a sanctuary

(49:48):
Right, a sanctimonious placewhere people can come and
retreat.
Right by definition, thesanctuary right Right, wartime
warfare, spiritual warfare.
I'm out there in the world andI'm going to come to sanctuary,
to a place of peace, to worshipmy God and then go back out to
the world.
I heal, heal, recover all thethings and then I got to go back
and chop some heads off to getinto the promised land.

(50:11):
That's the reality, right?
Yeah, reality, the words thatpresent yourself as a living
sacrifice Hmm, what does thatlook like?
That means that's not coveringyour flaws and pretending like
they're not there.
It's being transparent, but ittakes a certain level of
vulnerability that we're notwilling to take on.
Right and I had somebody I won'tname his name, but I had

(50:34):
somebody say something to me theother day.
That not something the otherday, but it was a while ago, uh,
and he was sitting in apastoral role.
We went to a marlins game I'llnever forget it like I was
trying to get to know.
The guy took him to a marlinsgame.
It was me.
You know another alumni, uh,brandon was with me at the time,
right and we're there, we're.
You know another alumni,brandon, was with me at a time,
right and we're there, we're.
You know schmoozing andbuilding relationship and all
things.
And of course, the service cartgoes by and they're serving

(50:57):
alcohol, you know.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Beers, you know whatever, it was right.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Hey, want one, right.
And you know me, right, pushingthe boundaries a little bit, I
kind of wanted to see what hewas going to say right, you want
one, right, pushing theboundaries a little bit, I kind
of wanted to see what he wasgoing to say right, you want one
?
He's like no, you know, Iappreciate it.
So the person moved on rightand so he then elaborated.
He was like no, no, no, I'm notsaying I don't partake, what

(51:23):
I'm saying is in thisenvironment right now, it's not
the right environment for me,because you have a lot of people
out there who will see a pastordrinking and they're out, right
, they're going to be on thephone oh, I told you Pastor's a
drunk, and then it becomes thiswhole thing and now you've now
ruined some people's faith walk.

(51:46):
So the fact that he took on thatresponsibility to say you know
what In this kind of environmentBecause if he would have said,
no, I don't drink, and yet hedoes, he's lying yeah right,
he's right.
Liar right, he didn't like Iain't gonna lie like no man.
Like I like a good beer oncewhile, but right, I don't get
drunk like that.
And again, especially not inpublic.

(52:07):
And all those different thingslike no, that's not the
environment for me in my role asa pastor or minister, someone
who's trying to help people tocome to christ.
I know people will judge andthen ruin their faith walk and I
was like, okay, I kind of like.
I kind of like that I get whereyou're coming from.
I see where you're coming from.
I choose jessica.
You and I, though we do haveour own versions of ministry.

(52:30):
Epic is a ministry for me,right.
This podcast is a ministry,right.
God is speaking through you andyou're serving, supporting
others, and I'm proud of you fordoing that right.
It's a beautiful thing.
These are ministries.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
Yet you and I ain't walking around with no title
called pastor.
No, don't want it, don't wantit, don't want it.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
Don't want it.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
That's my dad.
You know, my dad was a pastorfor 20 years, so my dad just my
dad was very aware of hissurroundings and what he was
doing and you know all thosetype of things.
Yeah, it was the same thing,because he wanted to, he didn't
want to ruin someone's possiblefaith walk and unfortunately
people were not supposed to putpeople on pedestals, but that's

(53:15):
what they do and I think thatsociety has has created that too
, and I think it's just and, and, and.
that's where, unfortunately,it's a hard thing to break Um
and.
So, since it's there, we haveto work with it, and you still
got to try to showcase howamazing God is, and you still

(53:37):
have to put yourself in the bestlight in the best situation so
that person will possibly wantto have that walk with.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
Jesus, and then, as they get closer, then they're
more mature and then you can bemore transparent.
Right, because there's certainlevel of vulnerability at every
level, like, hey, we don'treally know each other, so if I
share with you all of my dirtylaundry, you're gonna be like,
oh this dude, something wrongwith him until you build a
rapport with me.
Enough that I can trust you withmy intimate secrets, right and

(54:04):
even those inner, inner, innercircles and those people who are
closest to you, like your wifeor your husband, and things of
that nature.
Right In that, in that end ofitself, when we look at these
ministries, and not taking on atitle, a mantle yeah, title or

(54:24):
mantle called pastor, like beinga pastor, you know we want to
honor that role because someonedid, someone chose, some people
maybe not, shouldn't, shouldn'thave, you know what I mean.
Maybe they shouldn't have, butyou know we honor the fact that
you tried, you did a good effort.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
With, that said you said something.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
Unfortunately, society your words were
unfortunately society has kindof caused that to be right.
Where does that come from,jessica?
Generations before us?

Speaker 1 (54:53):
Yeah generations before us.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Yeah, to your point earlier, even though you know we
ain't that old.
But to a 20-some-year-old weold right we old.
What's happening?
Because you notice there'snothing new under the sun, like
the word says.
What's happening is thisgeneration that follows us right
now.
They're over that, right.
So the point that you saidearlier brilliantly, that has to

(55:17):
die, so that that is having todie.
So what society caused is nowdying off.
And now you have a generationnow saying, no man, you ain't
gonna reach me unless you'rereal.
Yeah, right they've got a sensethere's another title that I
give it, but I ain't gonna cussin your podcast, but they've got

(55:41):
a great uh meter right?
Yeah, give my point.
Yep, it's an instinct.
God has divinely given thisgeneration an instinct they can
pick up, even they may not bemature enough, they may not be
intellectual enough, it doesn'tmatter.
There's an instinct generationgenetically infused in this,

(56:04):
this new generation.
If they don't feel you, they'reout yeah, that's, and yeah
absolutely and that's like youknow.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
That's why you know the way social media has been
and why people took to tiktokbecause tiktok comes off a
little bit more real than likeinstagram, for example.
And yeah, people want realness,they want you to, they want you
to walk the walk and talk thetalk like they want to see it.
And I think it it's a little.
It's it's more challenging now,um, to to possibly witness to

(56:36):
somebody, but we are stillsupposed to do it, we're still
supposed to plant that seed, butwe have to be held accountable
as of you know how we comeacross and and all those type of
things.
And obviously a pastor is atanother level, um, and I think,
if I could jump right there whatyou just said, and all those
type of things, and obviously apastor is at another level and I
think, yeah, If I could jumpright there with what you just
said like it's hard to ministerto people now when you said that
, right, and then even when youtalk about not taking on the

(56:57):
mantle of a pastor.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
The reason why it's hard for a lot of people in this
generation now is becausethere's a lot of trauma, both
generationally and evenpresently.
Right.
There will be certain churchesI won't say the entire, I don't
want to generalize.
Yeah, not all.
There have been experiencesthat people have had that has
traumatized them around church,right Bottom line.
So you're walking around a lotof open wounds scarred by the

(57:23):
church.
So when you come off churchy itis literally triggering trauma.
Yeah, because of psychology andthat's so trauma.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
Yeah, it's the psychology of you, right?

Speaker 2 (57:30):
Yeah, that's so sad, yeah it's triggering trauma, and
what's going to happen isthey're going to fight, meaning
they're going to argue with you.
They're going to, you know,fight flight.
They're going to flee.
They may even.
There's two more that I learnedin all the context of
development over the years andyears and years especially the
last two, three years Fight andyears, especially the last two,
three years fight flight is allyou hear, right?
Fight or flight response Fightor flight.

(57:52):
Response you can Deletion.
A business coach taught me this.
Deletion, distortion anddilution of our information that
happens in religion all thetime, right.
So fight and flight are onlytwo.
There's four and I'm surethere's more, but the four that
I've even been introduced to twomore.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
There's fight yeah okay yeah, you see my face.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
I'm like I don't know what those are would you allow
me to educate you a little bit,if I may right?
Yeah, go for it forever,forever tutoring you look at
that forever tutoring me.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
That's why.
That's why I wanted you on thepodcast.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
You always teach me something aj I appreciate it,
and the minute I'm getting thisinformation, I'm just
disseminating because I'm like Ididn't know this, oh my god,
and I it.
And then I'm like I need totell everybody I could tell.
So, fight or flight?
Yes, absolutely, those are twoof the most prevalent trauma
responses.
Fight or flight I'm going toargue with you.
You're wrong.
Right, happens all the time,especially when you're trying to

(58:51):
minister to somebody or I'mleaving Like, oh man, get that,
get that away from me, bro, Idon't want none of that.
And you're out, right.
What we overlook is the freezeFrozen, stuck.
They're not doing anything, butyou're not reaching them either
.
It's like stagnant, you're justthere, they're just like ain't

(59:12):
nothing getting in, nothing isgetting through, and then they
have the fawn.
That was a very interesting one.
F-A-W-N Fawn.
If you look it up, it'sbasically people pleasing yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
Can you?

Speaker 2 (59:24):
imagine, one of our trauma responses is people
pleasing.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
Whatever you need like, okay, I'm going to do
whatever you tell me to do.
All those things, yeah, becauseyou just want to be liked?
Yep, but it's not actuallyreaching the person.
What I mean?
Jesus was the example, right.
What reaches people?
Love and service.
Yeah, that's true.
Love and service of others.

(59:50):
This man, he is the king ofkings, the Lord of Lords.
This dude was washing feet.
Yeah, compassion, come on right,Love all like you said, say
compassion, all the fruits ofall the things that fall under
love, just like fear.
Right, these are opposingforces.
Right, love, unadulteratedagape.

(01:00:10):
Right, unconditional love withboundaries we want to make sure
I have our boundaries especiallybut unconditional love, right
in service of others.
He didn't walk around beinglike I'm the christ, get in line
.
Or else, right, yeah, wasn'tbible beating people?
Right, he was like hey, I'mhere, I'm in service, and people
are like well, who are you?
Well, I'm glad you asked, right, but he was helping people out,

(01:00:32):
he was serving and supportingright, and in those ways, this
is what we are supposed to bepersonifying when we say
christ-like, ie, christian, yeah, and that's what this new
generation needs to do thatJoshua generation.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
And it's so interesting that you mentioned
Jesus like that, because I thinkJesus obviously amazing.
You know the epitome of theperson in the Bible, we know
this.
You know the epitome of theperson in the Bible, we know
this.
But I always, like my mom and I, always talked about like three
other three other people in theBible that just always got to
us and touched us was Joseph.
We all know Joseph and you knowall the things he went through

(01:01:09):
and obviously became second incommand of Egypt.
We all don't know that.
Um and David.
You know David is just such acharacter.
I think it's.
He's such an amazing personbecause he literally flaws and
all.
I mean a man after God's ownheart and the dude made so many
mistakes and it's all throughscripture and I think that's why

(01:01:31):
the house of David that'sshowing Amazon people are raving
about it because I'm hopethey're saying that it's very
accurate.
So I'm happy about that.
I'm really hoping that theyreally showcase the good and the
ugly of David, because it'sjust he's another one.
And I think the last character,the last character, just person
in the Bible that has justtouched me as of leadership
service is Joshua, because the,the, the, the level of just, he

(01:01:57):
just did whatever God told himto do and he followed God to a T
and he just, he would.
Like you said he was mentoredby Moses and you know Moses had
his issues as well and all thosethings, but the person that he
molded to lead his people isjust, it's just outstanding.

(01:02:18):
I just, I just look at Joshuaand I'm just like what faith,
you know, think about it.
Him and Caleb against the other10 spies and every they were
about to get stoned.
If you really read in scripture, caleb and Joshua about to get
stoned because they were theonly two spies that said no, we
can take it, we can, we can, wecan take it, we can go into
Canaan.
And everybody else looked athim like they were, they were

(01:02:45):
crazy.
You know what I mean.
But like such faith, suchboldness, and it's like to me,
joshua foreshadowed what lateron Jesus Christ was going to be.
And it's also interesting theimagery and the analogies within
the book of Joshua that reallyforeshadows what Jesus Christ is
about when they crossed theJordan River and it was like
you're crossing over into thatnext life and it's just like
jesus when he's raised from thedead after three days.
There's a lot of things inthere when I really studied it

(01:03:09):
and it's amazing how that reallytouches jesus christ and what
he did.
Obviously, and it's so neat youtalked about jesus, because
we're entering easter, so it'slike perfect timing aj you.
You're just always on time, butyou know, I just the last thing
I wanted to finish with you is,since we're dealing with, like
we're looking at that generation, we're that next generation or

(01:03:30):
you know, our children are goingto be that next one what is
something that you would want toshare with your son, that he
will keep with him movingforward with faith and obedience
, you know, with God and thisworld that we're living in right
now?

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Well, that's a profound question.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
Sorry, I didn't mean to get you like that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
No, I appreciate it because one, there's so much,
right, there'd be so much thatI've already shared with him in
his, let's say, 12 years ofexistence, or even, you know,
eight to nine years ofconsciousness in that response,
in that frame.
Um, you know, at this age rightnow, 12 going on, 13, right, 12

(01:04:15):
going to 13, and the size of a15, 16 year old.
You know, when I think of theage 13, I think about that age
of accountability.
Right, the word talks about it.
You know, you have cultures likethe, the jewish community, who
I acknowledge and honor at ahigh level, and what they've
done to model, like, even whenyou're talking about, you know,
going into promised land andjoshua dividing up the land and

(01:04:38):
all this intimate detail forfive full chapters.
That was a model, that wasmodeling, right, that was like,
literally, business structureand modeling within real estate.
And I'd be surprised if some ofthese things aren't used to this
day, right and God we trust,right, america.
So you know all of that exists,this age of accountability in

(01:04:59):
the Jewish community, barmitzvahs and almost that rite of
passage, like you said, thatcrossover, you know, over the
Jordan, and all the things thatare very present in the
traditionalist manner, but thatreally carries over, because
there's things that are stillagain, nothing new under the sun
.
There's still the parallelsthat exist, because there's
still these standards, there'sstill these, you know, like your

(01:05:19):
basic elements.
This is life, like it doesn'tmatter how much AI or technology
, you're still human beings inthis world.
So, when I think about that ageof accountability and knowing
what's right from wrong, andspeaking to my son, you know
this age is, you know,recognizing, acknowledging that
even though he came from amother and a father right, even

(01:05:39):
though he has that DNA right, heis still his own man, right, a
young man in developing.
He has his own choosing and hisown free will.
And as I tell him every daybefore he goes to school, when I
drop him off, is remember whoyou are right.
And his response is and whose II am, and that's not aj

(01:06:01):
donaldson, right?
That's not his mother, right?
That's god first right periodof the story.
So when I expire, when his momexpires and he and generations
after him are still here, likemoses to joshua and joshua after
you know, I want them toremember like you have your own,
like you have your ownrelationship right.

(01:06:22):
You have your own relationship.
You develop your ownrelationship with all the
circumstances that make you whoyou are.
You develop that, your ownrelationship in fear and
trembling.
Your own relationship with God.
Because that's all he wants.
He just wants relationship withGod, because that's all he
wants.
He just wants relationship.
He wants oneness right, he wantsus all to be united, and you

(01:06:42):
know, and with him period, right, absolutely, oh amen.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
I love that.
I think I'm going to be sharingthat with my daughter when she
gets older.
Absolutely, no.
You know what it's funny likeasking you that question.
I had to sit back and thinkabout, like how am I going to
answer that with my daughter,you know, and obviously she's
very young 18 months but thesame thing, it's our
responsibility, like as anindividual, to have a

(01:07:08):
relationship with God and to,and what I learned recently,
like I looked at like the Hebrewmeaning of covenant or
commitment, and it means to havea relationship that is
connected with promises.
And so it was very interestingbecause it was like, wow, you
know, you think about all thepromises God has made.

(01:07:31):
You know, if you look throughscripture and like, especially,
like I said, mentioned earlierwith Abraham and look how he
fulfilled that promise toAbraham and his people were
moved, you know, put into thepromised land, you know.
So it's just like if God can dothat and God has, you know,
been there for everything thatwe need him for how can we not

(01:07:52):
have that same commitment?

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
with him.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
Like we have to do that as well.
Yes, being saved is the firstpart, but the next part is what
is the covenant that you aregoing to have with God?
What is the commitment?
What are you going to promiseto Him?
You know, like, what is yourrelationship going to look like?
And, like you said earlier, forme it's been this podcast, for
example, for you it's probablyepic and other things Like those

(01:08:17):
are.
Those are anchors for us inorder for us to continue our
relationship with God.
I think everybody's relationshipor their commitment is
different, and that's where Ialso want to encourage people
like find what that commitmentis for you.
And I think sometimes we againlove our people, but sometimes
we don't do a good job of like,hey, find it the way that works

(01:08:40):
for you, not just this one wayyou know.
So I think that's something Iwould probably relate to my
daughter when she gets to thatage, that we can have those
conversations.
But again, it's about you as aperson have a relationship with
God.
I can't make you, I can't be apeople pleaser, I can't.
Just, I can't do that.
I can't do things to makesomebody else happy.

(01:09:00):
I have to do it to make mehappy and me happy with my
relationship with God.
So I think that's just profound.
I love it so.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
I appreciate it.
You know when you when you saidthat about your daughter and
you know we think about the nextgeneration and what they have
to contend with.
You know AI and technology andsocial media and everything is
in our face the way society isjust like rampant and um you,
you want to make sure that whenyou are gone, you expire like

(01:09:30):
the.
The one thing we want is to seeour kids again on the other
side yeah right yeah so amen,when they're faced with those
challenges, the world and theirdisbelief.
And even when you said ourpeople, that was very, very,
very, very profound.
And you said our people.
We're not talking aboutethnicities.

Speaker 1 (01:09:49):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
No, right no.
We're talking about believersand unbelievers, and it's not
versus unbelievers.

Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
Against each other.
There are evil doers in theworld, absolutely.
There's a difference from justbeing a sinner Like you are
intentionally wanting to bringharm to others.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
So there's a difference there.
Right, we fall short every day,right, like Romans 12 says we
all fall short, right, right.
So, in that of itself, toremind our kids, you are enough,
but you're always going to fallshort, and what you do in those
moments the lessons is what'sgoing to define you, right,
right.
So, when we're talking aboutour people, we're talking about

(01:10:33):
people who fall into the faithright, and then, in that respect
, we want to make sure thatwe're loving on all those,
because for god so loved theworld world right, not just the
believers in the versus theunbelievers, it was the entire
world.
And he wants everybody to bewith him one day and not

(01:10:53):
separated for eternity.
And that's a scary thing, right?
Yeah, that that one piece, Itold my son.
It's like somebody challengesyou.
Oh well, why do you believe?
It's the response almost.
Why don't you?
Right?
At the end of the day, we knowwe're all going to die one day
and, as as much as we may beapprehensive, fearful, uh, angry

(01:11:15):
, like grief, grief, you know,the one of the first things I
have to deny is anger andbargaining and all other things
when we lose people.
But it's the harsh reality oflife.
It's not easy.
Life can be ugly and it can bea beautiful tapestry at the same
time.
Inspired by the movie the Shack.
I don't get any money for this,I don't have any co-writes or
productions in this, but I wouldsay the Shack has been one of

(01:11:38):
the most profound over the lastprobably, like I don't know,
seven to ten years of my life,that when we, when I sat down
and watched the shack wellbefore I was so you know, social
, emotionally intelligent, wellbefore I knew about the
emotional will and all the stuffI learned in counseling.
Well before that, that moviebroke me, sis.
I'm talking about a footballplaying, muscle bound six foot

(01:12:01):
225 guy sobbing, not justtearing up in a little drip.
I'm talking about like weeping,because it stepped and you said
push the boundaries.
That thing stepped intosomething that none of us would
ever want to face.
I don't know if you've seenthis, sis, sis, if you've seen
it you haven't seen it lately Irecommend you see it again,
especially now you have adaughter.

(01:12:22):
Yeah, I need to watch thatagain.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
It's been a while.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
It's a completely different feel now, as you're a
parent.
This is something none of uswould ever want.
We won't even talk about it, wewon't even talk about this out
loud.
To step into such a not justcontroversial but such a hard
thing of life to deal with thathappens all the time, happens
all the time, and to be able totake the perspective, like our
human perspective, versus whatwe believe God's perspective,

(01:12:49):
divine perspective is.
It is the most beautiful thing.
As hard as it is and was it is,I get goosebumps.
Goosebumps like it wasabsolutely beautifully done and
helps us to understand the ebbsand flows, the harshness, you
know, just like a ripping and atearing of a mother having a
child.

(01:13:09):
But the beauty of childbirth,the beauty of having a daughter,
the beauty of having a sonright, one does not exist
without the other in this life.
There's no salvation withoutsacrifice.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
Yeah, absolutely, and that is what Easter is about.
Boom, he is risen, absolutely.
Aj, thank you so much for beingon.
I really appreciate itAbsolutely.
No, I appreciate this.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
It's been very fulfilling.
This is, if anything, been atestimony, even to me.
So I appreciate you, you knowsacrificing again to do this, to
have this, to provide this, andI look forward to seeing not
just this episode but others,because I know there's a lot of
incredible people you have inyour life and I'm just honored
to be episode number one with aguest, even though this is
episode 50.

(01:14:00):
So on the 50th, bring the thirdperson guest.
I'm looking forward to seeingwho else you bring on and what
this does as God speaks through,because one can put a thousand
to flight, two can put 10,000.
So it's not about competition,it's all about collaboration and
within collaboration, as Iheard a pastor say, it causes
multiplication, multiplication,even exponentiality.

(01:14:22):
Right, that is true impact inthis world.
You know, that's what I'm allabout.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Epic AJ, thank you so much.
I love you and I appreciate youand I'm so proud of you and
where and how far you've comeand you're just so like you have
just put in the work when itcomes to driving your business,
connecting with people, making adifference in the community,
and I'm just so, so proud tohave you in my life and you are

(01:14:52):
family.
We love you and we appreciateyou and you have.
you are making your mom veryproud, oh, thank you, I
appreciate you and she was anamazing woman, amazing educator,
music musician, like just sucha wonderful person, and she's
raised an amazing son.
So I just want to let you knowthat I appreciate that don't get

(01:15:12):
me crying on this podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
You know it's like grandma's with you and all, all
the family.
We, you know, ascended right.
They're still with us, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:15:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
Playing chess and having fun with our lives Like
ooh watch we gonna do this,Watch we gonna do this.
It's so good I get to see themup there like ooh, we love them
so much.

Speaker 1 (01:15:33):
I know so crazy.
I love it, AJ love you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
Love you too.
Say hello to the family.
Testing all the people man Tellthem I said what's up.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
Absolutely Till next time.
Thanks everyone, love you Well.
That wraps up this week'sepisode.
I hope these devotions help youdraw closer to God each day.
If this episode encouraged you,please share it with someone
who might need the same message,and don't forget to subscribe
so you never miss a weeklyepisode.

(01:16:04):
Also, if you feel compelled,leaving a nice review would be
so appreciated as well.
For more information or toreach out, check the show notes
or visit jessimorganhomecom orfind me on Instagram at
jessimorganlife.
Remember God's timing is alwaysperfect.
Keep trusting him Until nexttime.
This is Jessi Morgan prayingoff.