Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:32):
Outro Music.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I got new hearing aids.
I got two, now the V8 special.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Do they work better.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, I can listen to my podcast.
Oh, you can.
Out of both ears now.
Oh really, one in each ear.
Speaker 5 (00:45):
One in each ear.
Different podcast, each yearpodcast.
Oh, you can Out of both earsnow.
Oh really, one in each ear, onein each ear, different podcast
each ear.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
So when did you?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
get that Last week, okay, because you know, I wore
one, yeah.
And then I went to the VA and Isaid, let me try two.
They're like, your hearing'sokay on this ear, you don't need
it.
However, them this year, youdon't need it.
However, I was like, well, arethey free?
And they was like, yeah.
(01:10):
I was like, well, give me two,give me two, yeah, because I was
like I wear them, like I meanI'm very consistent and I do
like like walk around school andstuff, I'll turn them like a
sucker.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
So I don't listen to music, or oh, there's bluetooth.
Yeah, it's just a hands uplisten to music, or oh, it's
bluetooth.
Yeah, it's just a hands up.
If you're listening to yourmusic and gunshots start at the
front door, would you know it?
Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, that'sit, I hope.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
I hope I can hear you never hear the one to get you
anyways no that's what they say.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I went golfing yesterday or the day before,
whatever, and my brother waslike I thought you got no
hearing aids, I'm not listening.
I'm listening to the Sean Ryanshow.
It's a good podcast.
It's not this one.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
We were just talking about it before you got here.
We said we got mints and water.
Sean, we were just talkingabout it before you got here.
We said we got mints and water,and there's one.
Sean Ryan gives out seeds.
I wish we would have that.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I wish you did.
He did there for a while.
It's a gummy bear A little 365.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, I'd take it in a minute.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
I'll be a regular guest on your podcast.
You boys start handing out gum.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
I'll clear my schedule.
He said give me one of thesewhen you at now AOC.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
I'm their court security guy.
I'm over the protection detailfor Supreme Court and the Court
of Appeals and then I also workwith each of the sheriffs.
Well, court security for eachsheriff to kind of keep our
judges safe.
We've got about 280 judgesacross the state.
You hiring me?
I'm ready to get out of theschool business.
You tired of the schoolbusiness?
I ain't right now.
(02:50):
God dang it.
John Pratt man.
John Pratt was you know, john,don't you.
John was contemplatingretirement but his mother-in-law
moved in with him, so I thinkhe's probably I'd have to fight
Doug.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Well, you ain't going to leave your gig up there, are
you, me Heck, no.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
No, he's good.
Speaker 6 (03:06):
Yeah, that's a gravy train right there, you ain't a
kid.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Ask him on the Tuesday of the full week that
he's worked, and then he might.
He grumbles a little bit.
Tuesday is the busiest day thatwe usually have Did y'all have
court yesterday.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Yes, that place it shut down.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Well, they're doing all that construction work up
there.
I guess that's why.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
But it's pretty outside.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I was expecting to see somebody walking around.
Let me tell you, it's Mondaythrough Friday.
Tuesday and Thursday is usuallythe busiest days.
Sound like me?
Don't have no, but there's justnot a lot of traffic in and out
there unless you've gotprobationary people coming there
to go to probation office.
(03:51):
That's about it.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
I just appreciate it and I eat everything in the
restaurant.
I'm full plus.
I finished off with a big hotfudge cake.
Oh, you have to.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Was it the full-size?
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Yes, People in the booth next to me were laughing
when I was licking my plate.
Gosh, that hot fudge cake.
It's so good, man, did youshare?
No, I did my wife to give me abite.
Where'd she go.
Where'd she at?
Oh, they left.
How are you getting home?
Speaker 3 (04:22):
I guess they're sitting in.
I'm here spending an hour.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
He can sleep with Daisy Juggle riding yesterday.
Oh yeah, had a good time 65miles 65 miles.
What yeah, when we're at RedHill, Jackson County area S-Tree
.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Yeah, what was your own Jeep?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Sibeside, sibeside, yeah S tree.
Yeah, what was your own jeepSiperside?
Oh, I love it.
Karen always says I said youcare if I go riding with Foote?
Speaker 3 (04:49):
She says no, you go she's got you out for at least
15 hours.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Foote makes you a better person when you come up,
she said.
I hope it don't have theopposite effect on him.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
I love my brother Thomas time.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
You got one police.
You got one in the state policearea.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Yeah, a voice trooper , are we going?
Are we rolling?
Yeah, we're hot, oh, we've beenhot for a while.
Speaker 5 (05:13):
That's what he does today.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Did you catch the story about?
Speaker 5 (05:18):
repelling.
No, okay, no, you'll get totell him again if you want to.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
I better not.
I'm kind of sensitive.
Well, you'll get to tell himagain.
If you won't tell him, I betternot.
I'm kind of sensitive.
Well, you never know.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
So intro here, because I'm limited on stories.
This is going to be the Dougand Foot conversation and we'll
just laugh a lot.
So I do want to tell you onestory before we get started.
I do want to tell you one storybefore we get started.
I'm down in Atlanta, Georgia,on a spring break of all places,
and we're standing at the OmniHotel right next to like all the
(05:59):
.
We went down there for theaquarium and the Coke Museum and
all that stuff and we was goinggonna watch a basketball game,
hawks game.
We're staying there.
We come down this elevator orI'm getting ready to go up the
(06:21):
elevator and ding and I look upand there's foot.
He grabs me and hugs me.
My wife's sitting there likewho is that?
What is going on here?
That's my buddy.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
I hadn't seen him in a couple years.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
There we are looking at each other in Atlanta, small
world.
Some of you are like what areyou doing?
Speaker 4 (06:42):
He's there for a drug conference or something I don't
know if it was that or was itSEC tournament, I don't know, I
don't remember.
It may have been a drugconference.
I was down there some for that.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I think it was because there wasn't that many
people, that like it wasn'tpacked, it was just normal
spring break traffic.
I was like what are you doinghere?
He said what are you doing here?
I was like I'm here on vacation, you know everybody talks about
.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Everybody talks about the police, brotherhood and the
fraternity and that's.
You know that's what it is.
You know I can pick up, I canleave here tonight and I'll see
you for five years.
But when we will embraceabsolutely, we will share our
life and we will.
It's just we reconnect quickerthan any other occupation just
like you saw them yesterday.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yeah, yeah it's so much bull and craziness.
Yeah, that you, when you sayyou know, I know what you went
through and I know what Doug'swent through and I know what
Bill's been through, and it'sjust that calm and bring you
together like, yeah, you've hadto, you've had to muddle through
the muck and mire and and thenastiness, and then you've not,
(07:50):
we've got that common bond.
Yeah, and that's what's.
That's what's cool about thisline of work.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
It's slowly dying out , unfortunately true friends,
true friends I think they'llalways be that way yeah
Speaker 2 (08:03):
you'll always yeah yeah, well, we may not talk for
four or five months.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Well, we talk soon more, now more now.
But if we didn't, if we didn't,we'd be fine, we'd be fine we
would be, I mean.
Lord, I think of him every day,something he said or done yeah,
I love.
Doug Thomas.
Yes, I mean he we'll tell astory or two on him as we
(08:28):
progress along.
But to your point, dylan, it'snot what it was.
Because there's so muchpressure on the police now and
when you factor in and I don'tknow how political you guys get,
and my intention is not to getpolitical but when you factor in
that the FBI goes aroundtelling all the police, if you
(08:48):
don't tell us what you know onyour buddy, then we're coming
after you too.
Well, that kind of sets a tone.
It's a little bit hard for meto trust the dudes I work with.
Now I'm not saying I'm corrupt,I'm not saying that I'm a bad
police officer, but when thattone and that culture gets
established in the ranks it'sreally hard to overcome and that
(09:10):
hurts that fraternity.
Now I know people in there havebeen.
Well, what are you saying?
I'm saying that there's afraternity here, I trust my
brothers.
And when you enter in a factor,when you factor in an entity
that says we're going toprosecute you if you don't tell
everything you know on yourbuddy and you get everybody on
edge.
I hope that Trump's Departmentof Justice will change it.
(09:35):
I mean you know ultimatelypolice are going to be a target
going forward.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
They just thought Anytime when we talked about
that.
Anytime you have the ability totake someone's freedom we
talked about that Anytime youhave the ability to take
someone's freedom, you can hearall about somebody preachers,
teachers.
It's sad when you hear thembeing bad or doing something
wrong, but nothing fills theairways and gets more clicks
(09:59):
than an officer Like a policeofficer messing up.
Exactly, and it's really thatthe power that's given to us.
I didn't understand it when Ifirst got hired.
It's a huge responsibility.
It is, and you can't take thatlightly.
You have to know what you'regetting into.
(10:20):
You've got to do your duediligence.
You've got to do good casework.
You've got to do your duediligence, you got to do good
casework.
You got to do these things, andthat's that's why people look
at it, because we have that alittle bit more way and you're
kind of starting behind theeight ball now with the way,
with the media, the media andeverything is.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
You're already starting.
So you've got to prove yourselfto the public that this you
know I'm not that one bad appledoes not represent all of us.
So it's you know, it'sinteresting.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Yeah, it is.
I didn't mean to get allserious right at the start.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
We'll go back around we try and stay on the lighter
side here, but we end up seriousyou know, people just need to
understand what.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Yeah, we're trying to promote the fun side and trying
to say, hey, policing is notthis or this, it's not what you
see all the time.
It's not what they make us ontv is.
There's a little bit of thatlaw and order tv show and
there's also a little bit of theother guys, and doug said it
the best I've I've heard yet,and I don't know why, it just
(11:23):
came to me when you said thatwas this like a?
we're like a movie or a playyeah, we're playing a part, and
everybody's it changes.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
We play in movies.
Well, like I said before it's,you can have drama, horror,
comedy.
It just goes on down that way.
You never know what it's goingto be like.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
It could change from call to call, or a phone call
from a buddy can change it.
It changes how you're feelingyour emotion, what's going on,
so it could become a tragedyinto comedy real quick.
Yes, it can Go ahead with theintro, since we've been on for a
while.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
All right, yeah, we've been yapping for a while,
got another good episode for youguys today.
I think this one's going to bea lot of fun.
We may actually get to sit backand not yap as much, because I
think these two may take up alot of the air.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
That's tough for me if you can't do it.
That is tough for.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
T-Dot.
I have heard a few times.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
From your.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
That's what it is, but it seems like Doug has been
mentioned in almost everypodcast that we've done from
some sort.
We don't know why, but somebodyhas referenced him or a quote
or something.
But he's back with us.
We've had several people askwhen he was coming back, so he's
finally back.
(12:42):
And then we've got Foot with usthere.
I am a product of Doug Thomas,so he's finally back.
And then we've got Foot with usFoot.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
There.
I am a product of Doug Thomasand therefore I have the stories
to tell.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Ask him how he got the name Foot.
Well, that's where we're comingin.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
It's really anticlimactic, but anyway, I'm
good with it.
I'm glad to be here, man.
This is fun.
I love to talk and I'm ahighfalutin because I get to
hear myself talking theseheadphones, yeah, these
headphones.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
You're going to be a chatterbox tonight.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Some people can't stand to hear it on their phone.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
Yeah, I'm a little goofy, but I've found if you're
going to succeed in life, you'vegot to laugh at yourself.
You've got to, and this guyright here in front of me
probably taught me that many,many years ago.
Speaker 5 (13:31):
He was my first FTO.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
That explains why he's rolling his eyes.
Listen, I mean, I didn't reallyknow.
I wanted to be a police officer.
I was a senior in high schooland we went to project
graduation training Rock CastleCounty.
My class 1988 was the firstclass to have project graduation
, at least at Rock Castle County, and we went to a seminar in
(13:52):
Louisville to to learn how to dothat, raise money for it and
also what to do.
You know, did for a safealternative for a graduation
party of what it was built.
So anyway, I go there and it'smainly put on by the state
police.
I'd kind of already beenthinking.
(14:13):
I mean, you know how it is whenyou're in high school, you
change your mind five or sixtimes.
But I watched those guys inthat uniform where that campaign
at and I was like man, I wantto do that.
They're silent professionals,you know, just walk around and
just they're so nice toeverybody, I'm like man, I'm
gonna do it.
Then I went home and told mymom.
My mom told me I was crazy,Don't even think that way.
So, I went to school.
I went to school at SiouxBennett.
(14:34):
I got a degree in secondaryeducation, but I went to Eastern
.
I got over there, you know, andI'd drive by the state police
post every day.
I'm going to be a trooper, it'sright there on campus basically
.
I'm going to be a trooper.
So I tried and tried.
I tried four times.
They finally hired me on thefourth try.
I guess they thought, man, thisdude won't keep coming back.
Speaker 5 (14:52):
We're going to hire him.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
So they took a chance on me.
But you know I first got hiredas a deputy.
I went in Shirley Smith, theguy that hired Doug A diamond in
the rough.
Old Shirley pulled him out ofthe charcoal and shined him up.
He was my first FTO.
You know how it is.
It consists of ride-alongs andstuff.
(15:18):
I was trying to piece togetherone uniform.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Poor folk, wasn't it?
We was poor folk, I didn't evenget paid.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
I was a wannabe so I wanted to look the part.
So I'd have a vinyl holster anda leather belt and a mask and
whatever.
I mean, you know, I look like aconstable in the very poorest
district of the county.
That's what I look like.
But anyway, I rode with Doug.
(15:48):
We did get to a point whereShirley paid me a little bit if
Doug walked off.
But we only had one cruiser, soif Doug could get off ship he'd
have to bring me a car that Icould drive the boat with.
I mean, it would ideal.
I literally worked 46s, youknow, at Ejier Acc's on the
interstate in my pickup truck.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
I'd flip my hazard lights on and get out and block
the interstate.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
And Doug, done it too when you hit more than one man
can handle and I've oftenwondered.
I worked a pretty bad recordfrom people from Michigan and
Ohio collectively one morningabout 4.30 in Rock Castle.
At that time you weredispatched by the inmates
because the 911 was in the jail,so the inmates would often call
(16:35):
you and wake you up at night,right or Wilmer.
Wilmer was the.
God rest his soul.
He was the deputy jailer andthey'd call me and they sent me
to a wreck and I rolled out.
I didn't have nothing but myleather belt and what I told you
, and I rolled out and peoplelooked at me and I said I
promise, I'm legit, I'm here towork the wreck, but I didn't
(16:57):
know much and Shirley smoked apipe.
He's a great big man.
I want to put you working theroad.
You know, and that was mynickname and I mean, like I said
, that's kind of anticlimacticbecause well.
I mean, you know, that was mycuss word.
I would say I flew it.
Well, I can sure tell you.
(17:17):
Unfortunately, I've managed tosay a more since that, since the
indoctrination of that word,but anyways, I'm glad they were
with foot than the latter.
So I went to the state policeacademy in 96 and Jimmy Silver's
old unit 660 and he was mybuddy mentor, him and Doug
mentored me and he kind ofshowed me how it was.
(17:40):
But but I, jimmy, called uppart of the academy and said
that Allen boy call him CadetFoot.
Well, they did.
And then after I left theacademy it was just they dropped
Cadet and I was Foot and youknow I don't get called that
much anymore.
Where I'm at now.
Nobody really knows me as Foot.
Whatever man, I don't answer toanything.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
I didn't know your real name until, like, yeah,
I've been up in rock castle fora little while.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
I've heard people say that man, a lot of people say
that.
But I tell this story.
He knows I'm going to tell itbecause every time we we offer,
every time that we enter in anew person in our realm, in our
little circle, gets a littlebetter.
I always tell it on him.
But but you, know I was astudious young police officer.
I wanted to do it right.
We went down to the BroadheadApartments and there was an old
(18:30):
girl in there that needed to goto jail.
Well, I was young andimpressionable.
Doug said get her.
Well, you want me to charge herwith?
I don't care, get her Well.
I snatched her up and we walkedher outside and put her in the
car In our her up.
We walked her outside, put herin the car in our 1990 ford.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Uh was it ltd or uh is uh.
When did you?
When was that?
I don't know.
I think it was 80.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Well, it was 94 when you were ordering me what to do
but I want to thank you for 92ford.
Okay, well, anyway, we'll get inthe car and she's, he's
aggravated.
I don't know if he worked ahard shift or what, but he
wasn't really in the mood todeal with me or her.
And we were on our way to thejail and and she was running
that mouth back there in theback seat and I was wanting to
(19:15):
fill out the tickets, you know,trying to be studious, and I was
trying to fill out every blockappropriately, you know, and I
guess I was writing a little bitof a voluminous narrative on
the citation and I wanted tomake sure that it was right.
I did not know you could chargepeople.
You could not charge peoplewith alcohol intoxication in
their apartment, but anyway wedid because Doug Thomas told me
(19:42):
to the statute of limitationshas run out, but that's okay.
I love Doug Thomas.
I charged her and we were onour way to jail and I asked him
a question.
He was getting tired of me, hewas getting irritable.
Anyway, I asked one too manyquestions.
(20:04):
He looked over at me whiledriving.
He's driving us, remember?
I'm filling out the citation.
I look over at him, ask onelast question.
He says fill out the damnticket and hush.
I don't think it was?
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I don't think it was it was that?
Speaker 4 (20:19):
yes, I was, my feelings were hurt, oh, but I
recovered.
But anyway, I loved littleThomas.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
If he needed a kidney .
Speaker 4 (20:27):
I'd give him one and he'd fuss and gruff about
something while we was layingthere together.
It wouldn't matter, I love him,we're like brothers, your
kidney's going to fit in here.
You're too tall.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
He's a problem.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
He has taught me a lot about just being a man, just
being getting along with peoplelaughing at yourself.
I mean just how to treat people.
You know, doug thomas could gowin for sheriff right now in
rocos county and he's been inlaw county for two decades or
three decades probably now we'vetried to talk him into that so
many times.
He's great man, he's got a goodway with people and I'm not
(21:07):
surprised that he comes toLondon PD and mentors many of
you.
I mean I'm not surprised at allbecause he's just a natural
born leader and you've got todraw to him because he tells
funny stories.
He tells on his self.
He runs around going gah gah.
Humor is a great mental healthfor us as police officers, and
(21:28):
Doug Thomas is the best at it.
I've talked enough.
It's time to cut him loose.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
No, you're doing good , I know Everybody's heard
Doug's little bit of a bow.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
However, we don't know exactly everything.
You started at Rock Castle, soDid you go then from there to
the state police?
Speaker 4 (21:52):
No, sir, I didn't, and this is a story of
resiliency, but I went toLexington Metro and I went
through their academy about 32weeks maybe.
They had a basic and then theyhad an advanced and I went
through their academy and I wason the street for about six
weeks and they called me in andsaid buddy, you ain't gonna make
(22:15):
it with us, no, listen I ain'tlying, you know I hit that
forever, but I ain't got nothingto hide and I didn't know.
I didn't know, I was kind ofshaking, you know, because you
know, basically you get firedfrom a job.
Yeah, I wonder, if I'm cut outto be a police officer, right,
(22:36):
is it meant for me?
You?
know, and I won't get into allthe reasons why.
It don't matter.
I got some good friends that Iwent through the class with and
was with them a few weeks backat a reunion, but but last
semester wasn't for me and Iwasn't for them and uh.
So anyway, I come on back homeand I was kind of shaking.
Doug knew I was shaking.
Doug picked me up and you knowhe reminded me that I, that I
(22:57):
was meant to be a police officerand don't give up on your dream
.
And about three months later Iwas getting yelled at in the
state police academy.
There you go, and that Istarted in 96 and I retired in
2018 with a blessed career.
I done worked the road for 10years richmond post, london post
.
I was fortunate to be abodyguard for governor fletcher
(23:20):
for four years that reminds meof a story.
Speaker 5 (23:24):
Yeah, chicken festival yeah, that's the first
time I met you yeah, that'sright.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
It was when you was on his detail and that's almost
like that was in 2006 he'srunning for re-election, so it
would have been 06 at thechicken festival we're out there
on that and nobody likes thechicken festival parade because
it was it clogged up everything.
You remember that?
Oh yeah, that Saturday ishorrible, it is.
And Fletcher the governor walksthrough and somehow I mean he
(23:55):
legit was picking up babies andkissing them and holding them.
I was like, oh my gosh, he'slegit.
And then he would look overthere and he'd be like, buy me
that over there.
I don't know how much money youspent, I don't know.
Hopefully they didn't pay youback.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Yeah, that's why you get reimbursed for stuff like
that.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
They were just trying .
They were doing their thing andI complained to them.
Yeah, he was doing it, right,he really was.
I had no problem until heturned around and decided to
walk back through and I had tostay on that detail a little
longer with you guys and my wife.
We were having she was pregnant, oh boy, and we were having
pictures done and I missed themfor that detail.
(24:35):
Oh man, oh, I heard about it.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
Oh, I bet she voted to save Bashir that fall Nope.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Oh, she was like I can't help.
The governor went by but yeah,I missed him.
There's my little daughter andher pregnant with my son.
I'm out of it.
I was like, oh, I'm in trouble.
I was supposed to be in here,but it was one of them volunteer
details on that festivalbecause I'd usually work night
(25:07):
shift or second shift on them.
I thought they had everybodyworking it.
They used to, but I was secondshift.
I feel like, on that, you comein at that time.
But I came in for that paradeearly.
I volunteered for it.
I thought it'd be over in likean hour and now it didn't work
out, she'd probably go Photoshopyou back here Election year
(25:31):
it's not going to work out thatway, and that's the first time
because I was impressed by notonly his demeanor with handling
the public and making sure theymoved along, but also how much
cash that guy kept in his wallet.
Well, I was bought.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
The festival when you do you know, when you do that
executive security, you know theshoulder man often is the is is
the money man.
You know you pack some cash forinstances like that, but but
yeah, and then I, you know Ifinished up.
It's kind of funny when you'reon that detail.
You kind of know how you'redoing with your supervision
(26:12):
because based on the assignmentyou get, you know if you're
doing a good job and they likeyou.
You're going on vacation toFlorida with the Fletchers, yeah
, well, whenever the Fletchersgot beat, governor Fletcher
brought us in.
He presented me a nicecertificate, gave us a meal, and
the certificate was Latin forad finum fidelis, which was
(26:33):
Latin for faithful to the end.
It's one of my prizedpossessions, one of my prized
trophies, because I did man.
I love that guy.
Now, glenna, if you hear this,I'm sorry, she's a little
difficult, she's a littledifficult, she's a little
difficult.
Ernie Fletcher was a fine man,it was an honor to work for him.
But anyway, we'd finished upand the Steve Beshear camp was
(26:56):
coming in and they called ameeting and we were going to do
the inauguration.
That's about 18, 24 hours ofnonstop activity.
And so they called a group inDylan and they said all right,
this is the governor's brother.
They had packets, you know, andwe're going to pick them up.
you know, on different things,different little bit about them.
(27:18):
Here's the governor's brother,the governor's son, the
governor's sister, general vanAllen, where you at.
General van driver Allen, whereyou at.
So I was the general van driver, so I knew then that I was
going to be a short-timer on theSteve Beshear administration.
And then I was.
I came back and worked threeyears at the Morning Post and
(27:39):
then from there I went tocannabis.
Yeah, I went to cannabis andcannabis.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
When you went back you worked a little marijuana
that's what a lot of people knowwhat that is.
So I remember me and JasonMcCall was out there working
interdiction and we'd give you abunch of tickets out there a
lot of times well, we did signdetail.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
You know, and I love that sign detail because you get
you know and I love that signdetail because you get you know
that's the one where road checkahead.
You know you bait people to getoff the interstate, thinking
they're avoiding a road check.
And it is based on the biblicalpassage of the wicked flee when
no man pursues.
They're fleeing because, oh,I'm about to get in trouble.
And then you're waiting on themwatching them you know it is
(28:21):
man.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
That's some cool stuff why didn't we ever do
anything like that?
Speaker 3 (28:25):
I got to do that with them guys when I was on that
interdiction team and they werewe'd set up down at the welcome
center.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Yep, we did a truck stop at 59 yep, I would.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I was always that decoy.
I was the decoy.
Yeah, that was out past thesign.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
So they were like you were the general van driver.
I was the general van driver.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
They were waiting through some trash to see what
they were throwing away.
But was you down there withthat guy?
They got like I don't know, twogallons of GHb from a guy yeah
from and I was like I don't evenyou know that's a date rape
(29:10):
drug or something.
I was like gallons of it, yeahthis guy had I was like man, so
they were doing the lord's work,you know, and getting dope off
the, off the street and whoknows how many that protected,
you know, back then money anddrug money.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
Yeah, we got large seizure money down there one
time at the weapon center.
Yeah, you know war.
Then money and drug money.
Yeah, we got a large seizure ofmoney down there one time at
the welcome center.
Yeah.
And you know warrants.
People got warrants on them.
You know big warrants.
You know you're talking murderand rape stuff.
You know they're like oh, I'mabout to get caught, I better, I
better not go through this roadcheck, I better turn off before
I get to this road check.
Yep, we happen to be therewaiting on you oopsie it's funny
(29:44):
, yeah, it's great when you walkup and badge them and be like,
hey, how you doing today.
Yeah.
You can see their face, you can.
It's like ah, and you know I dida lot of knocking talks and I
love that man because there's astudy in it.
And I could walk up and youknow, and you can see a level of
anxiety.
You know, I could walk up andyou know, and you can see a
(30:05):
level of anxiety.
You know, most people aregenerally a little bit afraid of
the police but, boy, when yousee, when you see the heart
beating through the shirt, Ineed to be at this location.
And then you know, and then youcan see it in their neck and
then they start stuttering andthey sweat.
You know, all those areelements of something's going on
here.
We stress.
Speaker 5 (30:26):
We talked about that when we had Joey on and that was
do an interdiction.
That was one of my favoritethings is you?
Start listing off stuff.
Ask them in the car and they'lltell them there's no time.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
It's like I mean well , I found out too that people
that if you was with them or hewas around them and they, they
were overly friendly or theystarted talking a lot.
I said time to look at thisperson.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
There's a little more to your overly kind.
Yeah, are you like that with?
Everybody.
You start narrowing down.
There's some questions, easyquestions you start asking right
off the bat that start thatyou're right or you're wrong.
That was the fun stuff of ourjob.
(31:13):
Oh yeah.
The hunt was fun.
The paperwork after sucks whenyou're a proactive police
officer you're at your best,proactive police officer.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
You're at your best Mm-hmm.
You know I mean, and it's hardto be proactive this day and
time because you're not rewardedfor it like you were when we
were coming up.
You know, most of them nowpolice supervisors are like
don't get anything.
It causes me to have to do morework.
I'm not saying it all that way,yeah, but there's a significant
amount of police officers thatare supervisors, that are like
listen, don't get into nothing.
Their supervisors will be likelisten, don't get into nothing,
(31:43):
don't hit nobody, don't chasenobody.
And we win, the community winswhen the police officer is
proactive, that's how you'relooking.
You're hunting and I know that'snot a popular word in policing
but you're hunting and you'reproductive.
Speaker 5 (31:58):
We talked about that in the city when we were hunting
dope heavily like all thesquads were hunting dope heavily
in the.
We pushed the dope dealers outof the city for the most part
that's right.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
We didn't stop them, yeah, but they weren't in the
city, they were, yeah yeah,they're operating out in the
county you just have to.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
People don't understand.
It's not, it's life or deathand that's all it's what it
boils down to.
Yeah, we have a lot of fun, wetalk, we cut up, but really when
we're out there we're trying tokeep the bad out of your
community, out of your life, outof your front door.
You don't know.
I mean, if people steal fromyou for dope, what else will
(32:37):
they do?
They're desperate people.
So you know, without law,without the police out there,
imagine what?
And then when you handcuff thepolice and make it taboo to
arrest somebody or do something,it puts really a bad spot in
the community you bring inhesitation.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
I think that environment is going to change.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
I hope so.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
I have hopes that it will there's only so long before
there has to be a shift backtowards like hey, we got to get
after more aggressive stylepolicing.
I'm not saying do it wrong, I'mjust saying don't get the bad
guys you're not at their goosestepping everybody really wants
(33:26):
proactive policing.
They do.
They don't want drugs in theirstreet and they don't want bad
things around, so you got to getto it again.
Alright, boys, what else yougot?
Speaker 2 (33:39):
I know y'all got some stories now, yeah, go for it
when you put me on the spot, Iforget all of them, Hood how
long did you spend at the OCJT?
Speaker 4 (33:50):
I was there 18 months and that was one of the finest
jobs I ever one of the mostenjoyable jobs.
You enjoyed it.
I was a mentor, for I think Icounted up to 450 police
officers came through duringthat time.
That's awesome.
What was you?
Teaching I was a coordinator.
Oh, during that time, that'sawesome.
What was you teaching?
I was a coordinator?
Oh, so I was like a daddyfigure to a lot of them.
You know I was the disciplinaryand the motivator Did you get
(34:10):
to toss any rooms all year.
Well, you know DOCJT, they don'tbelieve in that sort of thing.
But I did.
You did, though you believed init and on Fridays I'd send them
home with a little love, we'dmeet and I'd do an inspection
and we'd go out in the hallwayand we'd do TV time.
Yeah, I mean, but you know whatthey still call me?
(34:31):
A lot of them still call me tothis day.
It's awesome, you know, and,man, you can't put a price tag
on that.
That means a lot to me, wasthat not after you retired.
I stayed and retired 11 months,got on at the OCJT, worked there
a year and a half and now I'mat the administrative office of
the court, I think it was.
Speaker 5 (34:50):
I'm a court bailiff.
Were you there when Logan andBen and all that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
Logan was in 507, I believe.
But I was there, I used to give.
I'd walk up to Logan and I knowhis dad was, you know, in
command staff at London.
But I would always I know youboys are pro-London PD and I am
too, but I would always try torecruit for the state police I'd
walk up, I'd get in the rearespecially after Redman, you
(35:20):
know and I'd get in there andI'd say, boy, you look good in
that campaign hat, you know.
But Logan would always pushback on that.
He'd say I'm a lot of PD.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
I think he was loyal.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
Loyal, loyal to their brother, yes, sir, but I mean I
would, and I wouldn't quit, andhe wouldn't quit.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Logan would have made a good one too.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
He, yeah, they were.
They come out I think 507 andyou know, yeah, I enjoy those
fellas.
They're good guys.
But I went to in-service upthere me, and I thought I'm
gonna say it's greg turner.
We was up there at a stress andwellness class when, when that
class was going on, so we walkedover there to eat with them you
know, over quackers or whateverto eat and they just looked at
us.
I was like y'all want to eatwith us.
(36:09):
I said you don't have to.
But we came over here to wecould be a whole lot better
restaurant over here, but we'dlike to just cut up with you and
talk.
And they were like y'allsitting there, all I was like I
guess I was a lieutenant, Idon't know.
I was like I guess I was alieutenant, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
I thought what's wrong with you all.
They just locked up.
And then Logan came in and he'slike smacking me in the back of
the head Like hey.
Speaker 5 (36:31):
Hey dude.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
The other two were like what?
Speaker 5 (36:34):
did I say I think Ben was late.
His first day he was, he waslate to orientation yeah, yeah,
ben was late, checks out, ben.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Ben was a good guy, a good he, just he didn't start
taking it serious till maybejust a little bit later on in
the process.
Yeah, well, and then, you know,and his coordinator was, she
ended up being the supervisor.
May have been at that time, Iguess, but she was about five
one, five two and uh, but yeah,he was.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Yeah, ben, I remember that smile, you know, he just
infectious smile he's a goodgood old boy, you can't help how
I like being Ben if you listento me, I love you.
Speaker 4 (37:17):
I miss you hope you do.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Well, I'd love to.
We're not having any.
We're sticking to retired folksfor the most part right now, so
we'll eventually we'll see whatthey do, but because I don't
want to put them in a spot yeah,I accidentally say something
about something that's going onand then, well, you know to your
point we're talking about gothe ocj.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
I'm of the opinion that I'm old school, you know, I
think we all are.
But when you're in the academyand there's a push nationally to
take away the stress in apolice academy and I'm
completely against that yeah, uh, you know, like florida florida
tends to have, they tend tojust send a bunch to go through
(37:57):
a bunch of college courses andthen, once you get your certain
criteria met, then you can applyand be a police officer and and
then you just, you know, go gothrough a collegiate like
training academy, and there's nostress, there's no yelling,
there's no intense PT.
I'm of the opinion and DOCJTwas transitioning when I was
leaving, but they wanted todocument everything, like they
(38:19):
wanted to write people up forinsubordination.
And I'm of the opinion no,let's make them do 50 push-ups,
smoke them and let's go and thensmoke them and we move on.
Yeah, because when I write youup for insubordination week 12
of the academy and you get in ashooting two years later, the
defense attorney is going tocome up with a problem from the
start.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
Exactly, and I just I was against that.
I preached against it manytimes as I was there.
I don't want a paper trail.
No, you know, know, we all makemistakes in the academy.
You're under stress.
That's what you're going to do.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Let me smoke you, let me grass drill you and we move
on and I shake your hand andI'll tell everybody, what, what
a wonderful cadet recruit mewherever a cadet and recruit is
a much different person, yeah,than a five-year officer that's
been on Absolutely.
And if something happened inthe academy, that doesn't really
(39:13):
reflect who that officer becameand turned into.
Well, unless that was a need torid that person and get them on
out of the academy, I get that.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
And that's a great point, t-dot, because because,
look, I've had mothers ask mewhy are they so hard on them,
boys up there?
Well, I'm going to tell you why.
I got to know that when yougraduate you have at least met
the minimum standard.
That minimum standard is highstress, and that minimum
standard is three years whenyou've been on and it's four
(39:46):
o'clock and you were due to getoff at four o'clock but there's
a mess in front of you, like afatality.
I've got to know you're goingto stick it to the end.
You're going to stay thereuntil the road's cleaned up and
you can move on.
There's a certain thing that weidentify in the academy.
The person's going to stick toit because if you ain't willing
to get yelled at and not, thenlikely you probably won't stand
(40:10):
there and be willing to guard acrime scene all that long.
You likely won't stay there forfatality all that long.
So there's some.
You know, I get it, I get that.
We I think the state policethis time started out like 90
and they're down to 29.
Yeah, I get it, man People, Iunderstand both sides of it.
But, having speaking from theDOCJT perspective, there needs
(40:32):
to be some degree of a littlebit of stress in an academy.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Yeah, and you can only put some A happy medium.
Academically there was a lot ofstress.
They put that stress but reallythe physical side of that red
man fight, that pepper spray inthe driving training, the things
that all of a sudden I'll tellyou what stressed me the most.
And I failed the nystagmus testand DUI and I was like I'm out,
(41:05):
I'm going to fail.
I put unnecessary pressure onmyself after that but that's who
became the best at doing allthe DUI detection Felt sobriety
Because I was not going to fail.
I put extra work into that andthen when I got out of the camp
I knew it pretty good and feltvery confident in my ability at
(41:29):
that.
Where I might not have just ifI'd have passed the first time,
where they'd have been like youwere close, we'll just let you
go, yeah, instead of saying youfailed, you were close but
you've got to redo it.
Yeah, that made me a betterteacher.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
Failure is a good teacher.
It is there's.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
there's nothing very good and then he's talking about
, you know, failing and havingconfidence.
I was in the Academy andaccident investigation because
I'd worked the road about threeyears or four before I ever went
to the Academy mm-hmm so itcome up the accident no problem?
(42:04):
No problem.
Didn't pay a bit attention tothat class for nothing.
Just set sat there and twiddledmy thumbs.
Test time, looked at me.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Never heard of that before Next thing.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
You know, I go look at the score.
Of course they don't tell youwhat, you just have to go look
at your ID and see what yourscore was.
So I looked up at the wall Fail.
I said uh-oh.
I said uh-oh.
I said I guess I knew as muchas I thought I did.
I went to the coordinator andsaid hey.
He said you can take it again.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
It's funny how there's fear as a motivator.
Yes, the best I did in theacademy I was getting ready to
get deployed again to go to Iraqor somewhere.
I was 2003 and got pulled outof the class for a couple of
(42:59):
times.
And I'll tell you thiscoordinators have a way to make
and break you.
Sometimes my coordinatorreassured me that, hey,
everything's gonna be okay,you'll.
You'll have a spot here, don'tworry, go do your thing.
Military, they hold your spot,they, your agency's not gonna
fire you took that stress off ofme.
So when I and then he said ifsomething happens, call me and
(43:22):
we'll get you back in this classright quick, or you'll be in
the class behind, no matter what.
So just came, you know, it'slike two days.
So I met that right there.
Boy, the homework they gave us,though it was ridiculous oh my
god, best ever did, though I wasscared into like I gotta
there's other things.
I'm still in the guard, I'mcould do this.
(43:43):
And I was like man, I locked inand knocked out that.
That rest of that academy wasno joke for me and there's only
a couple.
I was in like the last phasebut best test score, I had the
best pt time I had.
You know, all that stuff justkind of was like.
I was just like motivated, likeyeah, and it was fear that
drove that yeah it was crazy soyeah fear fingers of motivator.
Speaker 5 (44:08):
You mentioned Redman.
After you saw, redman is whenyou start trying to recruit and
I can agree with that, becauseRedman was kind of the.
That was the thing that you'regoing to make it, you'll be all
right.
Because, there was several inour class that we was watching.
We were standing up on the topwatching them as they was going.
Speaker 4 (44:27):
He ain't going to make it, they ain't you it, they
ain't you know yeah just toosoft I mean it's, it's
definitely, uh, it's definitelyan occupation where you can't be
bashful.
No, like when they would showup on sundays.
I would get in their face and Iwould say tell me I'm under
arrest now.
That sounds kind of silly, butthat's really the first.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
You know, that's the con that's where the conflict
starts, you know when you tellsomebody you're under arrest.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
I'm getting ready to take your rights and your
freedom away.
That's where the conflictbegins.
So if you're making mild andbashful, well sir, you're going
to have to go to jail.
So I immediately start on them.
Speaker 5 (45:04):
I like that.
I do too.
It's a switch that you've gotto flip and if you can't flip
that switch, then you're notgoing to do.
Speaker 4 (45:14):
Well, I want to be, and I'm old now and I'm
irrelevant, but I always try tobe a dangerous gentleman.
I've heard people say man, wenever thought you'd be a trooper
, you were just so nice, toonice.
Listen, that's okay.
I want to be nice, I want to bea gentleman, I want to be
cordial and friendly and buddyand hug you.
(45:35):
You mentioned hug man, I'm ahugger and I hug tight.
But listen, I've had to flipthat switch and I'm okay with
that too yeah, you know for sure, I would.
Speaker 5 (45:48):
I've always said I would rather talk my way out of
a fight but I want you to knowthat if we're going into a fight
you're not going to enjoy it.
Be a dangerous gentleman.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
You've got to be a good communicator in this you've
got to man, because I would youknow, like you said, when
you're under arrest, there'sways about saying that to people
you can really be a dick aboutit.
You can, or you'll say where wewere from Rock Castle.
We knew about everybody in thecountry.
(46:18):
I mean, it was just that typeof community.
You knew everybody, mostly Eventhe thugs.
You went to school with them orsomewhere down the line.
You knew them somewhere.
And then you're saying, listen,old man, yeah, this is the way
it's got to be.
I'm sorry, but I'm going totake it too.
I said it's nothing personal.
Yeah, but you know, got to do ajob here Most of the time.
(46:40):
I mean, if you communicate withthem, they're going to be all
right.
There's an old guy up there.
I guess he's dead now, butChester McFerrin I've never
heard of him.
Speaker 4 (46:51):
Yeah, I remember Chester, he liked it, he liked
the weather.
The weather was pretty good hedid, and he liked to fight.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
He didn't care who it was, and some people could go
and arrest him and not have aproblem.
There's two or three that couldgo to arrest him.
It was, it was over and thefight was on.
It didn't matter.
But the same way with the big,the big David.
(47:16):
What was his name?
Oh, david Rowe.
I was thinking him when you wastalking about Chester.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
David Rowe would fight every time.
Yes.
Speaker 4 (47:24):
You couldn't talk him into the back seat.
No, but I mean, you know, as apolice officer you got to that's
.
I guess that's where couragecomes in, you know.
And police don't get enoughcredit for being courageous.
No, you know, I mean no offensemilitary veterans.
I love them, man.
I wear a flag on my hat mostevery day of the week because of
(47:47):
what veterans have done.
But I don't think police getenough credit for being
courageous.
When I drive through the badpart of town, or I drive through
that bad holler, or by myselfwith no backup close, it would
be awful easy for me to go downto PD and talk about what a bad
dude I am.
But when you're in the car byyourself cruising through these
(48:07):
neighborhoods, when you're onyour way to that hot call active
shooter and we've all workedwith those guys that get car
trouble when a hot call comesout, I mean you know we have,
but you have to make yourselfovercome that fear and push
forward and address what's infront of you, and that's a good
(48:29):
point is that it's not thatyou're not afraid.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Anybody that gets out there and says that you're not
afraid, you've got to have thatfear.
That's what keeps you alert andkeeps you on your toes.
Speaker 5 (48:40):
But it's the fact that you're going.
Speaker 4 (48:42):
I'm going to throw a little Stonewall Jackson at you.
You ever heard this?
No, I don't know you, jackson,that you ever heard this?
No, no, you know.
Stonewall jackson, southern.
Now we can't hardly talk aboutsouthern generals anymore
because they'll say I'm a racist.
But this is profound.
What this man said thomasjonathan stonewall jackson
doug's laughing at me was afterthe battle of manassas started
(49:03):
to get a reputation of being ageneral that was oblivious to
danger.
He would walk out in the middleof gunfire to direct his people
.
And a newspaper reporter askedhim this is in a book, gods and
generals.
A newspaper reporter asked himsaid general, how is it that you
just, you just don't seem to beafraid?
And he told him you know, I'mafraid, but he said this.
(49:23):
This is the profound.
We're sitting in a church.
So he said my, my religionteaches me to be as comfortable
in battle as I am in bed.
I do not concern myself withthe time of my death, but always
be ready.
He goes on to say that it's theway all men should live and all
would be equally brave man, wedon't have enough.
(49:46):
We don't have enough stone wallsno we don't.
We're alpha males, we're notafraid of conflict, but our
culture does not reward and doesnot encourage and even often
even develop alpha strongpersonalities that will address
conflict.
Speaker 3 (50:06):
Alpha is tried to be, the Alphas are tried to take
away.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
They've tried to push them away.
You're taking away masculinity.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
That's what they say, if I get into politics, I'll
get upset.
I think we're getting a blockbed, or maybe people coming
around to the reality.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (50:30):
We were wrong here.
Yes, men have to be men,exactly, and that don't mean
everybody needs to be an alpha,but the alpha has to be around.
Yep, there has to be alphas andthere has to be betas.
I mean honestly in life, andthere's nothing wrong with that,
be betas.
(50:50):
I mean honestly in life, andthere's nothing wrong with that.
When you're in a, when you'rein a field where you have a lot
of alphas, it, uh, there'sconflict.
That happens in, within, ohyeah, within our own ranks.
Yeah, a lot of times, thecompetitiveness of a promotion
is craziest thing I've ever seenhow mad we get each other for,
for couple of extra dollars, awhole lot more bull crap.
You know what I'm saying?
(51:12):
Yeah, that's true, but it's okay.
It is.
It's okay because we end upback around.
I didn't mean that, whatever,but it's just tough.
It's a tough line of work thatwe do to be an alpha, in my
opinion.
When you're trying to teachyour son what it means to be a
(51:32):
man, that pride and that stuffyou want to come out and you
don't back down Sometimes.
But I've learned sometimes it'sbetter to back away, retreat a
little bit, take a betterstronghold on this and let's
regroup.
Speaker 5 (51:48):
You've got to survey your situation a little bit
before you can always react.
Speaker 3 (51:53):
A lot of times we hard charge when maybe we should
have flanked them sometimes.
That doesn't mean we never.
You know, retreating is not anoption a lot of times in online
work.
But sometimes we can get abetter position by backing up
and thinking like here's what weneed to be and here's what we
need to do, and maybe wait,maybe talk, maybe take a
(52:15):
different approach and ondifferent things.
I'm talking about life ingeneral, but in policing there's
been so many times you learnthis over the years like I don't
have to rush, this is calledexactly.
Speaker 5 (52:25):
Yeah, you're not.
On.
Time is my time is.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
Time is my friend a lot of times.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
When I first started I was your gung-ho.
Hey, man, I've got to get there.
I've got to get there right now.
Quit first Got to be first onethere, oh 660,.
He'd tell me, don't do that.
He said it's going to be therewhen you get there.
It's not going anywhere.
Speaker 5 (52:53):
So I kind of said he's right, and you put stress
on yourself by doing that now,we would always try and beat
each other to the cause becausewe wanted to be the one that
ended up getting foot pursued orget the first one we were
trying to be like, but we hadthe luxury of several officers
coming.
Yeah, we knew that.
You know you're first on scene.
(53:14):
You got somebody two minutesbehind you anyway.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
But for me as a supervisor, I wanted you to
answer the call.
I mean, I didn't want you to,just I mean Get there in a
timely manner.
Speaker 3 (53:27):
There's a fine line.
Do it in a timely manner, afine line.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (53:30):
You know he's talking about Jimmy there and Jimmy
taught both Doug and I this andI know you've worked with these
guys that love getting on theradio and tell every move
they're going to make, everymove they've done.
Jimmy always said and I'vetaught in each of my FTOs and
even I mention this to myclasses if you sound like a fool
(53:50):
on the radio, you will beperceived a fool.
Jimmy used to say when it'shappening and you hear it
developing, just head.
That way you don't have to tellnobody when you get there, say
I'm 97.
I'm on my way, but I justcleared so-and-so and I'm a 15
(54:13):
minutes away.
No sense for all that, no, justgo.
You know, and that's the onething about Jimmy he was that he
was kind of like I don't know,he just, I just always had that
assurance that he was close,even when I knew he wouldn't.
I just, and you never knew it,you never knew it, just like it
happened to me many times yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:24):
I'll be on a call or something.
It'd'd be pretty serious, man,of course, with us.
I mean, if you went to adomestic you used to buy
yourself most of the time yeah,you didn't have two or three or
what, but I'd roll up and if youmissed Jimmy Simmons you'd be
pulling.
You never even knew he wasaround.
Speaker 4 (54:41):
Yep, but that's you know.
Yeah, he was coming, he wasthat silent overwatch.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
I loved him today.
Speaker 4 (54:49):
I miss him so much I do too.
Speaker 2 (54:51):
He was a great guy, he was quare.
Speaker 4 (54:53):
He was quare and he was hateful.
I swear Doug's got a littlequare and hateful streak in him.
Speaker 3 (55:01):
He came from a lot.
He came from him.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
He did, it rubbed off on me.
Those guys were instrumental inmy life.
Speaker 4 (55:09):
And then you talk about Tony Terry.
Tony's the chief deputy therein Madison County.
Tony was I was the last guythat he trained before he
started.
He ended up retiring as a majorand him and Britt Roper Roper
worked London Post for a whilebut those guys, they took me
under their wing.
I often say they made me metroopers.
(55:29):
But this guy sitting in frontof me and tim fee over in
jackson county, they made mepolice officer.
But you know, I mean, and soyeah, and jimmy, jimmy of course
I've had, you couldn't beat him.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
He's just, he's just outstanding in every way yeah,
yeah, I mean, you know he was.
I mean, he was a true trooper,he was.
There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 4 (55:51):
He was Steve.
Walker was his sergeant.
No offense, steve, but it iswhat it is.
Steve was his sergeant andSteve wanted to change his
schedule.
Steve was going to make himwork a day shift.
That was taboo to Jimmy Silverit sure was.
Oh no, he was 18 to 02 or not,or 20 to 04.
He'd do that.
(56:12):
He was working the night thatthe old boy got in at post with
a hatchet and started beatingthe place up.
Connie was dispatching.
Connie called Jimmy for help.
Jimmy said it's a good thingthat fellow was gone before I
got there.
Speaker 5 (56:26):
He wouldn't have been doing that, no more.
Speaker 4 (56:30):
Anyway to the point that silent overwatch.
I'm watching out for my people.
He knew I didn't have notraining.
He knew I was green as could be, but he let me go off by myself
and take those calls.
But he was there.
He was listening in.
Speaker 3 (56:48):
But yeah, those that stand and watch, that have your
back.
There's nothing like it.
They'll let you learn, butthey're reassuring you that
you're right.
And laughter if you've donesomething wrong.
He probably pulled you asideand said hey, maybe we'll change
this up a little bit, because.
Speaker 5 (57:06):
I've had that, I've had those mentors.
Speaker 3 (57:08):
And it's cool that I get to sit here with Doug, who I
mean, I wasn't even pleasedwhen I first met Doug and for
him to mentor me as well throughmy early.
You know, even when I startedthe PD he was still at the
sheriff's office, but that's theguy I looked up to and then you
know getting to watch himfinally retire out he was
(57:30):
blowing a lot of smoke.
I'm telling you, there was arespect.
I know I appreciate it.
You weren't honored, but stillit was fun to work with you.
I miss it.
I miss that time.
That was the time that was themost fun for me, especially
night shift with doug and jesseand tc and all them guys.
(57:52):
We had gary profit, we had thetime of our lives.
Speaker 2 (57:57):
That was that was, to me, was the time well, there's
no finer bunch it was fun I meanit was, it was a lot, and the
camaraderie we had with eachother like that's not, not like
it used to be it's uncommon noand I will say this and you all
had a group like that too, dylan, that you all got well, and
(58:17):
that was the thing is like wehad.
Speaker 5 (58:19):
So the group that we went in under that trained us.
The camaraderie that we hadwith them was good, and then our
camaraderie togethersubsequently was good, but then
something happened with thegeneration after, and then admin
changes and things.
Speaker 1 (58:35):
It just wasn't there was a trust that was broken
there somewhere somehow, and itjust wasn't the same anymore but
now all those guys I still havepretty good communication with
yeah, I don't but I don't knowdifferent, know what?
Speaker 3 (58:48):
you remember at Sarge's can?
Speaker 5 (58:49):
I don't know what happened that changed it?
Speaker 3 (58:51):
well, you remember the Sarge's came to them talking
about, you know, learninggeneration yes, different
generations, yes, hardest thingyou can do because I am a Gen X
guy you're more closer to theboom generation yeah, there's
(59:15):
just a couple and we Latchkeykid is a little different, a lot
different than Gen Xers or GenZ Millennials you're a
millennial.
Speaker 5 (59:29):
I think Unfortunately .
Speaker 3 (59:32):
One of the best classes I had in that academy,
or in that sergeant's academy,was that class, because I was
like, oh my gosh, I've failed somany times with younger
officers, even though at thetime I'm in the 30s, mid-30s.
I'm like I have screwed up theway way I talked to these guys.
Speaker 2 (59:52):
They don't care how the way you placed in 1984,
whatever it was.
Speaker 5 (59:57):
No, I mean, we always like to hear the stories but
it's like well, that was cool,but we'll never get to do
anything like that, no, I mean Ido.
Speaker 4 (01:00:07):
I mean I hate it.
Ben's a trooper and he tells mesome stuff he has to put up
with and I grit my teeth andit's just a different time.
And it bothers me when I hearof police officers that the feds
are looking at them, they usetoo much force, or I feel very
(01:00:29):
hypocritical because I too, ifsuch what's that saying?
Except for the grace of Godthere go I.
I maintain humility with that,because I know that there
there's some stuff I probablyshould have been indicted for.
That's what I mean.
Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
I'm just going to tell you you know, I don't think
anybody said here, I meanhonestly.
Speaker 4 (01:00:47):
I probably crossed the line at time to to DDOT but,
there's a little bit.
I like to think I representedthe people well and I didn't
just dish it out for peoplebecause I didn't like them.
Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
They did something to get what was coming down you
got to operate in a grade, justa little people don't understand
.
Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
They don't understand it at all, don't understand it
no, sir, but it has to.
Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
There has to be fear of the police.
Speaker 4 (01:01:09):
There has to be a fear that when TDOT calls for
help, and I'm coming to save himor help him, the dude that's
inflicting the pain on TDOT orDoug or whoever, or Dylan, they
have to know that when Footegets here he's going to hurt you
and if we eliminate that, if wetry to erase that, then it
makes it hard to have asuccessful culture of freedom.
Speaker 5 (01:01:32):
Well, if there's no consequences, then what's the
problem?
Speaker 4 (01:01:36):
That's right.
I mean there has to be arespectful fear of the police.
Speaker 5 (01:01:40):
And it used to be I mean some of your older
criminals.
There was a mutual respectbetween it.
Speaker 4 (01:01:51):
If I run, I know that there's going to be a brief
struggle at the end.
Yeah, I mean it's.
You know that most of them willlaugh yeah or they thought,
well, we had to test you.
Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
Buddy, I didn't know you.
You know it's stupid, it'sdifferent man, it's just.
I remember we was talking,y'all talking about fear of um,
you know, heading to a call orsomething.
I remember some of the callswe've gotten and one of the
scariest ones I went to was like, right kind of at the end of my
career, we had a SWATing callwhere they call in shooting at a
(01:02:22):
school, at an elementary schoolhere, and I remember I was on
the phone with gals orderinguniforms for the pd and I said
I've got to go and she said Iheard that call go, be careful
and call me back.
You know, gals, the, the uniformcompany, thought be careful and
call me back and tell me you'resafe, you know they were scared
(01:02:44):
yeah and here we go, runningout the door and the first one's
in these things, and I rememberthat it was a short trip.
I was at the PD driving toLondon Elementary that's what a
half mile.
Yeah, I was scared to death, ohyeah, and I was the first one
to hit that door and I rememberthat.
Speaker 5 (01:03:05):
I remember that An active school shooter is
something that's like thenuclear of policing.
Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
Luckily, it was just a swan.
Our guys figured out Somegoober hacked one of the cameras
.
It was scary, don't get me wrongthe seriousness of everybody
coming in there, guns drawn, andclearing that place, with
babies in that place, and I hada niece and nephew there, so
(01:03:33):
ultimately I was ramped up evenmore.
But there is nothing.
I remember thinking to myselfjust breathe.
That's the first thing you cando is just breathe, get a hold
of your emotions and checkyourself and go do your job.
And my job wasn't to be asupervisor at that point.
My job right then was to be ahunter, exactly.
(01:03:57):
And as I wear those bathroomsand me and Chris Edwards busting
it, guys I hadn't policed within years were the first ones
through that door where there'sour bathrooms, and me and Chris
Edwards busting it you know,guys I've had in police within
years were the first one throughthat door is the sheriff's the
chiefs and admin.
Yeah, first ones there, andwe're the ones clearing that
together and there was norivalry of where the county and
(01:04:18):
you know all the differences,all the pain.
It doesn't matter we were aboutthat, but I remember that
calming my nerves for that nowafter after you figure it out,
you're like oh my gosh, you knowyou're sitting back, you
debrief that stuff, you talkingto your guys after the calls
over and you're like y'all good,yeah, okay, all right, let's go
(01:04:39):
get something to drink somemedical marijuana here, or I
don't know.
Speaker 5 (01:04:45):
Chill out Kudos to whoever ended up doing the
investigation on that, becausethey tracked that goober down.
Speaker 4 (01:04:50):
That's Lee.
Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Was it Lee?
Speaker 5 (01:04:51):
He tracked that goober down and found his IP
address and it's like New Jerseyor somebody it was cool.
Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
We've had that fear, though.
You can either operate in it oryou get out of the way.
Yeah, and that's okay too.
Speaker 4 (01:05:08):
If you can't hack it sometimes, well, let somebody
else deal, cjt you know what'sthe tactics part of training and
jason mack does a great job.
He's over that now.
He's, he's a, he's a dude, he'sjust a good guy.
Man, just yeah, he's got andhe's got the, the file to back
it up.
But man, but he uh, I'veliterally seen recruits getting
(01:05:29):
not not happen often, but I'veseen it happen getting the fetal
position and that's why we gotto know what you're made of
before we send you out and uh,and you know, because you can't.
That ain't the time to yourpoint.
You can't get in the fetalposition well, that was yeah
when we would have new guys,yeah, and that's in a training.
Yeah, situation, a controlledsituation where you've been
introduced to some fear andanxiety.
(01:05:50):
You're getting some sim rounds.
Sim rounds operate about 400feet per second.
They'll leave a mark.
They hurt, they hurt.
But you know, if you're goingto do that, the sim round is
probably you need to go be alibrarian.
Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
Yeah this is not your .
Speaker 4 (01:06:04):
This is not your occupation.
I agree so, but I, you know, Idon't know, I keep going back to
train stuff.
But but no, I mean, I lovepolice officers, man, I love.
I've got countless shirts aboutthe blue line and you know, I
just I love police, I know whatthey deal with and with.
My heart goes out to them.
He used to talk about man to go.
(01:06:26):
I'd arrest the guy.
I won't say his name, he's outof jail now.
Me and him have since resolvedour differences.
But I'd arrest him on aSaturday and he had swallowed
some meth.
This was back when meth firststarted was homemade.
Matter of fact, we did a searchon his house.
(01:06:48):
The DEA from Lexington was sointerested.
They came down and took overthe case.
They did a search on his houseand they found an actual recipe
to make it.
Speaker 5 (01:06:56):
Was he doing red P-Lab?
Speaker 4 (01:06:58):
Yeah, and it was a big.
I'd never seen it.
It was on the side of the roadand it was a big old, gooey
brown in wax paper and he hadthree, see, I would have thought
that was like tar, heroin orsomething like that.
Yeah, I would have said that too.
But he had three balls and heate one of them.
I charged him with.
You know he had a substantialamount, but he ate one.
(01:07:19):
Well, that made him wild and hewas literally in my back seat
spinning around Guy in the jail.
He wanted to fight.
It Took about six or eight ofus to wrestle him down, get him
in jail.
But at that time when you chargesomebody with a felony, I had
to fingerprint and photographthe arrest and I told the
jailers I said, look, I'll comeback tomorrow and I'll just I'll
(01:07:40):
do this, I'm not going to do itnow.
He's too wild.
So I came back the next dayabout lunch and he was in the
holding cell and they broughthim out and set him in there and
I just, he was fine, he didn'tsay much, he's really quiet, and
uh, I fingerprinted him andthen I got ready to photograph
him.
You know you had to hold thatsheet under your chin and uh, I
(01:08:02):
just I don't know what I said.
I don't think I really saidanything.
I maybe he didn't like mymannerisms, I don't really know.
Maybe maybe he didn't like that.
He was submitting to my request.
But he looked at me and he saidit's all right, alan, I'll get
out of jail.
I know where you live and whenI get out of jail I'm gonna burn
your house and then I'm goingto blank your wife.
(01:08:23):
Listen, I'm a God-fearing manand I try to be a good guy.
But you tell me thatterroristic threatening fits
that.
No, me and him had aconversation and I violated his
rights that day and I'm notbragging about that.
But there's a line and youcross it.
There has to be consequences.
(01:08:43):
You said it a while ago, have?
There has to be consequences.
You said it a while ago.
There has to be consequences.
And terroristic threatening getamended down to jaywalking.
Ain't the fix?
No, it ain't.
It ain't going to teach him alesson so he learns not to do
that again now.
Anyway, he, me and him had aconversation.
We made up since then.
But now you know there's somethings you don't say and I'm
gonna call you out on if you sayit.
(01:09:05):
I know this person is.
Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
So that reminds me of a little incident it happened
in Livingston no, no footnoteswere talking about here, but
anyway, this guy was we go man.
A trooper was down there, stevelong, and I wished he could be
here.
I other two yeah he'd beawesome, he'd be awesome to have
and, but we were okay.
(01:09:31):
We were at the homecomingLivingston homecoming foot knows
what it is and we're down thereat the corner where the
elementary school used to be.
It's a community center orsomething now, right there next
to the pool hall or whatever itwas.
But they said there's a guygiving a stirpence up up the
(01:09:53):
street here raising all kinds ofcane, whatnot.
So me and Steve we ease upthere.
It's this guy Foote's talkingabout.
Got no shirt, got a pair offlip-flops on and a pair of
jogging shorts.
So we tell him what's going on,we place him under arrest
(01:10:14):
anyway.
So we get him down to the carand he's a big old boy.
He's a big old boy.
And so we're trying to get himin the car.
He's struggling a little bit,fussing, cussing, carrying on,
and well we finally get him inthere with his foot hanging out
the door.
Well, shirley was there.
Speaker 6 (01:10:34):
He said yeah, he's in the car.
He was at the pop?
Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
Yeah, he was, but anyway he's a slam in the door.
Surely he is.
This guy's going.
Wow, I mean he's screaming likea panther or something I go.
What in the world.
And every time Shirley slamsthat door, he's slamming it
against his foot, against theframe of the car.
(01:10:59):
No, it's not, he didn't breakhis foot.
He finally got his foot inthere.
It's in Steve's car, by the way.
This is something that needs tobe stressed, Very, very
seriously stressed.
No matter if they're naked,always search a person.
(01:11:22):
Yes, always.
I don't care.
So we get this guy to the jail,open the door, get him out.
A big Budweiser bottle of beerfalls on the blacktop.
He's in a prayer jogging shorts.
Now Bam Hits the source.
(01:11:44):
Now bam hits the floor or hitsthe ground and buzz.
I said what?
That ain't right.
But we move him around a littlebit.
Move him again.
Pistol hits the ground.
And we had him handcuffedbehind his back.
But that don't matter, thatdon't matter, that don't matter.
(01:12:04):
You talk about taking.
You know, oh my god, what couldhave happened here, walking
down the steps at that time theydidn't have a sally porter, but
you had to go down a set ofsteps inside the jail.
Get him down to the steps.
(01:12:25):
Another bottle of beer fallsout of the shot Dang.
Two bottles of beer and apistol.
This was a 45 too, wasn't it?
It was a big.
No, it wasn't a 45.
I don't remember it wasn't.
It was a.
It was a gun, it was automatic,but it wasn't.
I thought it was a 45 it couldhave been.
I don't remember the big, largeframe semi-auto, but you know me
(01:12:46):
and Steve looks at me and saysyou know this, this serious, and
I would any place officer thatlistens to this.
I'm telling you if they'renaked, yeah don't have nothing
on search well.
Speaker 5 (01:12:59):
I can attest to that.
We had a call at the hospital.
Speaker 6 (01:13:01):
That's scary, it is we had a call at the hospital.
That's scary.
It is scary.
Speaker 5 (01:13:04):
We had a call at the hospital.
It was a 202.
Yeah.
And she had been wanderingaround and had left the hospital
AMA'd or whatever.
They didn't have any holdpaperwork on her, so it was one
of those.
You know, we always fought withthe hospital over that.
Yeah.
So I go and said, all right,I'll just go give her a ride
wherever she wants to go.
Well, what they didn't tell meshe'd been wandering around the
(01:13:26):
parking lot breaking intopeople's cars.
So I go and I take her, youknow, give her the pat down, get
in the back of the car.
You know, she's 202.
She's not under arrest, notunder custody, she's just 10, 12
on her to go back to her house.
So I take her.
Well, I get a call back to thehospital.
(01:13:46):
Two hours later she had brokeinto somebody's car and stolen a
380 out of their car and haveit shove up in her yeah and
didn't find out till.
Yeah, didn't find out till laterwow, so her sitting there not
cuffed nothing yeah could havebeen.
I mean in her crazies alone.
Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
Yeah wow, so it's very.
It's a lot of there's a lot.
Speaker 5 (01:14:09):
You said it by the grace of god.
Speaker 4 (01:14:10):
A lot of near misses, you know we've all had those
and pursuits and wrecks and, ohyeah, walked away from it.
But I mean, lord of statepolice, it got.
Listen, no lie, I've been onabout a year.
I wrecked the car in climaximax, kentucky.
I remember it well.
Yeah, I overturned.
I was chasing the beer canbefore he told me we'll steal
his thunder.
I was.
I found a spinning beer can inthe road and I thought, hmm,
(01:14:34):
there's a DUI around heresomewhere.
So I accelerated.
Well, I got a little too hotaround the curve, ended up
upside down in climax.
Speaker 3 (01:14:42):
That's what you want to be A lot of times.
Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
that's a good day that sounds like a good day, I
say you'll have to delete thatpart, dylan.
Speaker 4 (01:14:59):
But anyway, that's a good time, we've had a good
laugh.
But sorry, lord, to be so closeto your sanctuary.
But anyway, that was one car.
Well, about two months later Istill had the pool car because
we didn't have a lot of it, andI turned on a guy on a
motorcycle who was wanted forquestioning a robbery and I tore
the rear end out of that one.
(01:15:21):
Well, that very same day I go toJoey Peters' house to finish
out my shift.
He's got a brand-new 1993 Ford,I'm sorry, a brand-new 1996
Ford.
Beautiful car, beautiful car.
I said Joey, I've got to borrowyour car to get through my
shift.
And he looked at me, fearinghis eyes.
(01:15:42):
I had that reputation P-Doc,don't let foot have your car.
He started shaking and said no.
I said Joey, I got to.
Sergeant said I got to finishup my shift.
It's like I'm due about two inthe morning and like it's like
730.
And I just tore the rear endout of the one.
The wreckage just drove off init.
There's no other pool cars atpost.
(01:16:02):
So he reluctantly gave me hiskeys.
Well, that night I was on my wayhome and did I mention it was a
brand new 1996?
Ford Crown Vic.
I mean, it had the best ofeverything.
And I got a call of a domesticin Anvil.
I was at Big Hill and this14-year-old kid had, as I was
(01:16:24):
responding, uh, had hadsupposedly whipped his dad.
He, dad, he whipped his dad.
Good, you said dad had a bigpump down his head and he
threatened to kill his mom andwe were told he was armed.
But when I get there, steveBryant, dear friend of mine,
deputy up in Jackson County atthat time, steve was trying to
negotiate with him but hewouldn't have none of it and he
started shooting the cars.
(01:16:46):
Well, that was the third car inline.
Yeah, you know you hate to killa 14-year-old kid.
You want to give him everychance in the world.
Oh, yeah, but, son of honey, hedone some damage before we got
him corralled up.
But yeah, he shot up that brandnew.
Did I mention a brand new?
Yeah, he shot up that brand newcar.
(01:17:07):
Did I mention a brand new car?
I mean, listen, nobody wantedto give me a car and it was a
long time before I got a new car.
Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
I was hard on.
Speaker 4 (01:17:14):
KSP vehicles yeah, but yeah, that reminds me, there
wasn't too many straight roadsup there, no, jackson Gale
County.
Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
I was riding with Flo one night man.
I was off or something.
Speaker 4 (01:17:26):
Oh, I remember this Gosh.
What am I holding up here?
Speaker 2 (01:17:32):
We get a call I don't remember what it was anyway.
Oh yeah, maybe somebody tryingto break into a store or
something.
I don't remember exactly whatit was.
We was on 421 though.
We arrested this guy for DUI,that's what it was.
We was heading to the jail.
Then they give that back.
(01:17:52):
We give that call and theybreak an entire grocery.
We're right here out swingingaround there to see if I can
catch them.
We walked a mile away orsomething.
We was on 30 going towardBumble, turned around.
Speaker 4 (01:18:09):
sure enough, we'll get after this vehicle and we're
in pursuit 10-15 in the backseat let me add to this two
weeks before that, ksp had comeout with a new pursuit policy
and it said you shall.
You know what shall is?
Mr former police chief youshall not pursue with the
(01:18:31):
defendant in custody.
Yeah, go ahead tell your story.
Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
Put broke that right then.
So we're chasing this guy overthe place and we get into a hill
down into a cow field orsomewhere we don't know where
we're at.
That's the 10-15 where we're at.
Speaker 5 (01:18:47):
I said are we in Jackson or Avila?
Speaker 2 (01:18:50):
Yeah, this vehicle drives through a little.
We go as far as we can go inthe cruiser, no further we can
go.
He whips in there and footjumps out of the car.
I'm sitting there, I can't getout because I'm right up against
the bank like that.
You can't even open the doorand the 10-15,.
(01:19:11):
We're just sitting back therehaving a casual conversation.
Well, I don't know how he'sdoing out there.
I guess he's all right.
Finally, foot comes walkingback in, gets in the car, I in
the car where they went.
But anyway we had to ask thatguy.
He said do you know where we'reat?
Speaker 4 (01:19:28):
I had to tell the director to come get me.
I was stuck, couldn't get out,so he's able to tell us, so I
might have negotiated a littlereduction of sentencing for him.
Speaker 3 (01:19:40):
He wasn't a prisoner anymore.
Speaker 2 (01:19:41):
Another time, another one we're sitting down at Mount
Vernon, down at the bottom ofthe hill there, coming off 461
down going towards theinterstate Across the road.
There was the countdown, whatit was then, but it used to be
Godfathers and Subway.
You know where I'm talkingabout.
Yeah, I know exactly where.
It looks like it's falling downnow?
(01:20:02):
Yeah, it probably is.
There's nothing in it, butright there in the front of it
was a big, old, big swag like abig ditch, yeah, big ditch.
Big, ditch Big ditch and Foot'ssitting over there or something.
I'm sitting there talking tohim.
Speaker 1 (01:20:20):
Somebody gets in pursuit.
Speaker 2 (01:20:23):
They go by, I take out and take off.
You don't remember this?
I don't guess.
No, I didn't get to be a partof it.
Speaker 4 (01:20:31):
I didn't tell you stories.
Speaker 2 (01:20:32):
Anyway, we run, run, run.
We finally catch this guy.
I said where's Darren at?
Where'd he go?
He's running off.
I guess he went home.
We come rolling back there'sfoot, nose, dive down in that
big gully.
That cruiser was behind himsticking straight up there.
I said, oh there's where youwent.
Speaker 4 (01:20:53):
I was sitting there.
You know, listen, it's toughwhen your buddies are in pursuit
you're just sitting there,incapable of doing nothing.
Yeah, so it goes to that point.
Studies are in pursuit You'rejust sitting there, incapable of
doing nothing, yeah so, yeah,it goes to that point.
When I train guys, I'd saylisten, when you first hear the
(01:21:15):
word pursuit, or when you firstturn your lights on and you see
that car accelerate and youbecome to the realization
there's a pursuit happening andI'm in it, your heart rate has a
tendency to go from like 70 to150.
Oh yeah, and you've got tocontrol it.
You got to take a breath,settle down any high stress
situation.
You know, if you're rolling inthe building searching for
somebody.
I was.
(01:21:36):
I went on a.
You guys will appreciate thistoo, because it we've all done
it.
I went on an alarm drop onethursday afternoon and and I
mean you know how many alarmdrops have you have you been on?
We've all done it.
I went on an alarm drop oneThursday afternoon.
Speaker 3 (01:21:48):
And I mean, you know how many alarm drops have you
been on?
Speaker 4 (01:21:49):
A ton, A thousand, yeah a thousand, you know wind
or storm or lightning Easiestthing to get complacent about,
absolutely.
Well, I go in this I meet thiswoman.
She said I come home, my garagedoor's open, okay.
She said I'm going through adivorce, okay, so I'll go
through and check the house.
Well, I was meandering throughthe house.
I thought well, this woman.
I didn't know her.
But I said she just left hergarage door up.
(01:22:11):
She didn't close it on the wayto work.
So I'm meandering through thehouse, I'm looking in the
bathroom I'm spending a littletime, you know, because I'm
still relatively young, butexactly complacent.
I go in the and I raise up theshe's got her bed made and it's
overlapping the mattress and thebox spring and I raise up the
(01:22:32):
bed cover and there's a handunderneath the bed and I went.
I know.
If you'd have had a video on me.
Speaker 3 (01:22:41):
That was my.
Speaker 4 (01:22:42):
Barney Fife moment.
Speaker 5 (01:22:44):
Looking for you bullet.
I was like whoa, so I just tooka breath.
Speaker 4 (01:22:51):
I stepped out of the room, I got on the radio and I
kind of whispered Regimen sentsomebody this way.
And then I went over and stuckmy gun in that guy's face and
drug him out of there.
But a month later and this iswhy I appreciate police so much,
because I know how ungratefulof a job it is same woman.
(01:23:11):
I get a call one now onSaturday night.
It's from from her friend, awoman, her friend, and she says
and I didn't realize it was thesame woman.
She says my friend had she has.
She said she just left my house, we were playing cards.
She went home and there's acertain code word that we have
(01:23:31):
that tells me that she's indanger.
And she called me and gave methat word.
She couldn't talk, but she gaveme that word.
I'm like, okay, I'll head downthere, do welfare check.
Well, I knock on the and I'mlike, okay, I'll head down there
and do a welfare check.
Well, I knock on the door and Iswear they're the thickest
doors to this date that I'veever knocked on.
Couldn't budge them.
There was nothing in the house.
Couldn't see nothing.
The garage doors were sealed,couldn't tell.
(01:23:53):
You know, I called my sergeantdown.
I'm like man, what do we do?
This woman's convinced thatthis woman, han, old buddy of
mine.
He got there, he went aroundthe back side of the house and
the curtains were about a footshort of the floor and he got
down and he looked in thebedroom and he said there's a
woman who is.
She's bound behind her back,she's bound over her mouth and
(01:24:18):
she's bleeding, and there's aguy standing over with a baton.
I go, okay.
So the sergeant says well, boys, we can't call the special
response team because you'relooking at four to six hours
arrival.
He said we got to go.
I mean, so I beat on that doorand listen, I've seen all them
cool Miami Vice documentariesthat you all have, but they
(01:24:40):
don't work at it.
I couldn't bust that door.
So the easiest way that I foundto get through this door was I
took my asp and I beat out ourglass patio door and I thought
well lord no tactical approachon this one, you know so we go
in steve, I want my brother tobe.
(01:25:01):
He said you go first foot.
And I said what?
Speaker 1 (01:25:02):
I gotta go first because I'm thinking, you know,
he's gonna shoot the first dudethat comes through the door.
Speaker 4 (01:25:07):
He says you go first.
I said what I gotta go first.
He said because you're big, yousoak up rounds he was thinking
the same thing.
We go down that hallway andI've got my gun up and I, you
know, I was thinking it's onright here.
I kick that door in and thatdude looked at me.
He was so surprised and I'mthinking, dude, you're the
dumbest criminal in the history.
You ain't heard my approach.
(01:25:28):
So I tackle him, we arrest him,we send her off to the hospital
.
She stays a couple days.
He treated her pretty bad.
He beat her up pretty bad andyou know, being handcuffed and
bound not handcuffed but beingduct taped behind your back and
over your mouth it's probablynot going to end well.
He's not going to turn youloose and say don't tell on me,
probably going to kill her.
So I felt like we did some goodthat night.
(01:25:49):
You know, we high-fived.
She went off the hospital.
We charged him with a prettysevere charge.
Well, about a week later I wasat post.
I saw her come in the lobby andI thought to myself I bet she's
coming to thank me for savingher life.
I just know she is.
Well, my sergeant who happenedto be there that night goes out
and meets her and I can tell theconversation is heated up and
(01:26:12):
I'm like what in the world?
Why did you make her mad?
Speaker 5 (01:26:14):
She's come to commend me and you're running her off.
Speaker 4 (01:26:18):
I'm expecting something out of this man.
I saved her life.
Well, he comes back in thereand says what was that all about
?
He says man, he's cussed.
She won't believe it.
She was coming to complain onyou for beating her door out.
Oh my gosh.
So boys welcome to policing.
That's the truth.
I appreciate what you boys havedone, all of you You've served.
(01:26:41):
I appreciate what the boys andgirls do now who serve an
ungrateful occupation I onlyrival to that of a basketball
official in tournament time.
Speaker 2 (01:26:52):
I hate them guys speaking of, there's a time we
get a call this Timmy Cameron,you know Timmy.
Oh yeah, timmy's a pretty bigbully.
He's riding with me one night.
I give out a call, a welfarecheck.
His neighbor's calling.
(01:27:14):
I said listen, we've not seenthis woman in three or four
weeks.
Her car's sitting in thedriveway, not laid out, and
she's supposedly you know, she'sgot a sickness and it could be
a fatal sickness, of course.
Anyway, we go out there.
It's on Highway 70.
We pull up in the driveway.
She lives in a single-widetrailer and we get out, talk to
(01:27:39):
the neighbor.
I said when was the last timeyou saw her?
It's been, oh, it's been threeor four weeks.
We know she's sick, there'ssomething wrong.
I said okay, so we go up and webeat on the door, bam, bam, bam.
Timmy goes around the back,beats on the back door, Bam.
We go around just to try tojust beat on windows and
everything.
No one comes to the door.
I said well, if she's, we knowwe we probably need to go in.
(01:28:06):
She knows she may be, you know,maybe she can't, you know, call
for help or anything like that,or worse, she could be deceased
.
So Timmy hauls off, kicks thedoor.
You know how trailer doors are.
I mean, it just tires thatplumb off the hinges.
There's nothing left, just Justto open it.
So we go in there, all thelights are out, and we go
(01:28:28):
through and we're flickinglights on and I open the bedroom
door and I flick the light.
I reach around and flip thelight.
She sat straight up in the bed.
What in the world is going on?
I said are you okay?
She said yeah, why not.
What would you think I wouldn'tbe okay?
I said well, the neighbor'scalled, Said they hadn't seen
you in four or five weeks.
She said, well, ain't nothingwrong with me?
(01:28:48):
I said did you hear us bangingon the trailer, Knocking you
know, hitting the door and stuff?
No, I said okay, she gets upout of the bed gets her knock
(01:29:11):
down alone, comes in there.
First thing she says she walksup who's gonna pay for that door
?
Yeah, yeah, that's the way itis.
Yeah, so yeah, no, no, me andtanny cobbled it up the best we
could, but you know, yeah, shewas upset.
She didn't care if we waschecking on her or not.
See if she's okay, she wantedthat door fixed.
And then what do you do?
How do you?
How do?
Speaker 4 (01:29:21):
you do that differently yeah how do you?
Speaker 2 (01:29:22):
how do you do that differently?
How do you do it differently?
There's no other way you can doit.
Speaker 4 (01:29:27):
You've got existing circumstances.
Your belief is the informationyou've been getting.
Is that she's in harm's way oryou're thinking she's probably
dead.
Speaker 3 (01:29:35):
Preservation of life.
That's what we're there for.
Speaker 4 (01:29:38):
You've got to do that .
You've got no other options.
I can't believe she didn't hearall that, I used to get ticked
at pain.
I still get this.
You know, tell your buddies tonot cut my gate if they're going
to go in cut marijuana.
I'm like how do they know tocall you yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
I mean it ain't like you know, I hear that a lot.
Speaker 4 (01:29:57):
Well, they could go to the.
Okay, so we're supposed to senda fleet of troopers to the
courthouse to determine who ownsthat property and then I guess,
google the name and for anumber to call you and say hey
man, is it okay to go throughyour gate to cut the marijuana
that's on your farm?
I mean some of the stuff peoplecomes up with.
Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
Be glad we're getting it off of there.
Speaker 4 (01:30:16):
That's why it's good for stuff like this Kudos to you
guys to bring it in, because ithelps us, kind of kind of it's
therapy for us.
Yeah, yeah, to talk about theabsurdity that we deal with and
you and you'll deal withprobably absurdity more as a
police officer than you will asa veteran and I know that's a
(01:30:38):
service has its bureaucraticnonsense, but the people you
serve and the people you dealwith and the people you work for
, it wears on you over time.
Speaker 3 (01:30:48):
So kudos to you all for doing this stuff and letting
people come in and chat so yeahwhen I was going through, you
know, some therapy and stuff,when I'm, you know, going
through some craziness therethey they talked about that you
know the military has they gofor nine months and then they're
(01:31:09):
home or whatever year andthey're back for the rotations
and stuff.
Really, officers, police andevery aspect of it, not just
police, but you serve 20 yearsdoing anything and first
responding, especially us.
You're on deployment for 20straight years basically With a
(01:31:31):
couple breaks here and there forsome vacation, especially if
you're deploying in the samecommunity that you live in.
So it's like you never reallyleave it.
You're just in a differentcapacity Coming from you know,
being deployed before and thefront lines of belgium, yeah,
you know, but we it's a huge dipthere yeah that's stressful and
(01:31:56):
it's scary and I know the guysthat you know went and shot up
and got you know that's adifferent story.
Yeah, but we had that and webrought it home with us a lot of
times with our familiesdeploying.
How many times did somebody sayto you at a grocery store or
somewhere, you took me to jailand you're sitting there pushing
(01:32:17):
your kid in the car and youdon't?
Speaker 2 (01:32:19):
know what to expect.
You remember me yeah, Notreally Exactly and you're like I
will take my to hurt you.
Speaker 4 (01:32:21):
You remember?
Speaker 3 (01:32:22):
me?
Yeah, not really Exactly, andyou're like I will take my kid
out of this and beat you with it.
Speaker 5 (01:32:29):
There's two types of officers too.
You've got the officers thatwhen they get off duty, they
want nobody to know that they'repolice officers.
And then you've got the otherguys that are walking around
with everything, wanting to know.
I was always like I don't wantanybody to know.
For one, I don't want to haveto work while I'm off duty and
then for two.
I don't want people to know whoI am.
Speaker 2 (01:32:49):
They know us.
I find people tend to know thatyou're a police officer,
whether you present it to themor not that's true, and I'll
tell you a perfect example Meand Karen.
When we got married, we went ona honeymoon.
Guess where we went?
Kings Island.
Anyway, Boy, that's Big spender.
Well, my brother-in-law at thetime was a bride programmer at
(01:33:13):
Kings Island, so he'd done allkinds of stuff.
So you got a good deal Smart ashell.
Oh yeah, smart as hell, I'llget you in free.
Come to the back gate.
I'll open the gate.
Come on in.
Speaker 3 (01:33:22):
So anyway, real big spirit, you stay in great form.
Speaker 4 (01:33:25):
You're very much man.
Karen's going to hear this.
Speaker 2 (01:33:27):
I love you, Karen.
Speaker 5 (01:33:29):
No, that was probably like gold to her.
Oh, we don't have to spend nomoney on that.
I mean, it's all good.
She said don't say nothingthat's going to get me in.
Speaker 2 (01:33:43):
You've already done it, the CBO will be alright.
I always tell her you've got tobypass Congress sometimes, but
anyway.
But anyway we're in there goingaround doing our thing.
We go in these guys doing thesecaricature or whatever cartoons
(01:34:03):
.
Speaker 3 (01:34:03):
So I said let's get one of these.
We go in these guys doing thesecaricature or whatever.
Speaker 2 (01:34:05):
Yeah, the drawings, cartoons, cartoons and drawings.
So I said let's get one of them.
And still hanging up today backthere in my little bedroom.
So we go sit down and that guysays he looks at me and says I
know what you do for a living.
I said what's that?
He said you're the police.
I said what makes you thinkthat?
He said you just got the look.
(01:34:25):
It's a demand.
You got that hateful ass look.
Speaker 4 (01:34:33):
Well, you know most of us wear a watch or some kind
of.
You know you got an insignia ofa fallen brother.
You know most of us tuck ourshirt in and line our gig line
up, or at least when we're.
You know most of us tuck ourshirt in and line our gig line
up, at least when we're.
You know there's just certainindicators.
Most of us wear a cap and weknow how to wear a cap.
You know it ain't no flat billfor any of you.
Speaker 1 (01:34:52):
New generation police officers wearing a flat bill
correct that now.
Speaker 4 (01:34:58):
But you know, I mean there are certain indicators.
But I'll be honest with you.
Just Thursday, man, I was inBullitt County and I was leaving
and some guy said you must havebeen a trooper.
You look like a trooper.
I'm like, yeah, a long time agoI was.
But you know that makes me feelgood, yeah.
It does.
You know, I mean I'm okay withthat.
But, Chad, I'm getting ready todesign a class to teach court
(01:35:22):
security about off-duty.
You know there's a lot ofpolice that get killed off-duty,
yeah, you know.
And so so when do you interveneand when do you just?
Speaker 1 (01:35:32):
get your notepad out and be a good witness.
Speaker 4 (01:35:34):
No, so I'm designing that now, but some of the stuff
we talk about because, man, yourdanger level skyrockets
off-duty, absolutely, becauseyou really in the force
continuum.
You've maybe only got twofactors.
Yeah, you know, that's yourability to de-escalate, or
hopefully you're armed for anarmed encounter.
But I mean, it's a difficultparameter to operate under Yep.
Speaker 3 (01:35:58):
You don't have that tool belt full of pepper or a
taser or handcuffs.
Speaker 2 (01:36:05):
And you don't have the luxury of having somebody
there to back you, unless someof the citizens are in the car.
Speaker 3 (01:36:11):
And the worst thing you could do is probably take
somebody to the ground byyourself, because you don't know
who they're with.
Speaker 4 (01:36:18):
That's right, exactly .
Speaker 3 (01:36:19):
So off duty is maybe a good witness to that.
There's time in life.
I kind of want to hear yourclass now, that would be a good
one the refresher stuff for us.
You know I went to the academyin 2002 and 3, so my experience
(01:36:40):
and what I've already forgottenis different.
Police officer skills needs toprobably be part of the academy,
so my experience and what I'vealready forgotten is different.
You know police officer skillsneeds to probably be part of the
academy's things every year, atleast a little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:36:56):
You know, during your 40-hour deal, in-service stuff,
because I forget.
Well, I think after two orthree years or so, if you've
been on the, you know, becausewe get complacent a lot of
police officers do, and I thinkthat needs to be, you know yeah,
and it's.
Speaker 3 (01:37:08):
It's just a reminder.
If it is getting shot with a,with a sim, round every now and
then to wake you back up to like, hey, this, this routine
traffic stop or this domestic orthis alarm drop that you think
is just the everyday thing, hey,it is not.
No, and you know approachingvehicles and you know.
(01:37:35):
Everything changed when I wentback to teach.
I went up to academy class toteach defensive tactics.
Well, the handcuffing itchanged 100.
Like what?
Speaker 5 (01:37:45):
What do you mean?
Putting on a figure together?
It's probably different nowthan what it was when I went
through and I'm not saying ourway was the best.
Speaker 3 (01:37:51):
I don't think it was and I don't think you know
there's all I mean, like ifyou're, if you can get a guy to
do everything they've just throwthem the handcuffs, they'll
handcuff themselves yeah that.
I understand that, but there hasto be a reality check in the
academy and I know they'reteaching basic and I gotta you
know I'm careful because basictraining is what it is.
Yeah, it is not about totallybecoming the law.
(01:38:14):
You know like square away,because there's a whole lot more
you're going to learn.
But a good basic and I get it,but there's also like we're
spending a lot of time onsomething well that.
Speaker 5 (01:38:25):
I think that's an agency thing.
See, we at london we didn't, wedidn't train a whole lot.
There was no like scenariotraining afterwards.
There was no like re-up.
We shot twice a year, I meandaylight, dark and that's it.
And then a lot of these otheragencies you're looking at are
monthly trainings.
You've got some kind ofrefresher training, some kind of
(01:38:47):
you know ground fighting, somekind of tactics, something that
come up learning to shootdifferently, learning, learning
different things, that keepingthese keeping the skills, the
skills the diminishable skillskeeping them.
Speaker 2 (01:39:00):
That's what I like about it.
Towards the end of my careerthe last two, three years, I
think, travis, you fire arminstructor no, but Jesse was,
jesse was, but now we theyintegrated the the ground
fighting type of stuff and meand I thought that was the
greatest thing ever.
Speaker 3 (01:39:19):
That should be, yeah, they took the windshield out of
that car, so we didn't, andthen I had them over there doing
a problem of God.
Speaker 5 (01:39:24):
That was one of the best trainings that we had ever
done.
Shooting from the car I'd neverdone that.
Speaker 3 (01:39:30):
I'll be honest.
It took me about six weeks toget over that ass whooping I
took from everybody.
I mean I took everybody whippeda fire at me when he's laying
on that mat for a while.
He's laying on that mat for awhile.
Speaker 2 (01:39:43):
Everybody's like all right, you did a good job.
But it was good.
I mean that should beintegrated into any kind of
training.
Speaker 4 (01:39:50):
To reiterate your point listen, man, if you're in
a gun battle, your heart rate'sgoing to be up, and that's what
you guys are talking about.
You know what do we do when wego to the ranch.
We sit out there about 15 yardsand we we focused on that front
sight and we squeezed thattrigger because we want our
target to look good.
Speaker 3 (01:40:07):
Yeah, we want to show her, but look how much better I
did Look at that small group Iput in the upper abdomen.
Speaker 4 (01:40:12):
Yeah, we want that, but the reality is this, boys,
it's not going to.
Speaker 5 (01:40:16):
In real life You're looking at, maybe hitting 50% of
your shots, your heart rate'sprobably 180, 200.
Speaker 4 (01:40:21):
You ain't seeing that front side.
And then if you have to do areload you know we talk about
fine motor skills deterioratingGood luck.
And then if you factor in amalfunction, and clearing that
malfunction at a heart rate of170.
Yeah, I mean.
So that's why it's you know,young guys may, why you make us
do that, for that's why, that'swhy, yeah, cause we're preparing
(01:40:49):
you for the worst day of yourlife.
Yeah to reap, to perform underthe most intense circumstances
of a heart rate of about 180 andthat's the difference.
Speaker 3 (01:40:53):
I really think and I didn't go to State Police
Academy, but I think that's thedifference, that they put that a
lot of stress.
Speaker 4 (01:41:01):
Well, it could be the OCJ too.
Speaker 3 (01:41:03):
I mean, all our police academies do that, but I
think that was the difference ofit is a lot of city agencies
and you don't have a lot ofbackup.
But you all were training.
You're by yourself on everycall and they put that physical
stress because you can't go outand fist fight or I can't go out
and get an actual gun battlewith you to simulate that stress
(01:41:27):
that it's going to be.
So how do you do it?
Physical stress, you get thatheart rate up and then you go
function a skill, because that'sthe closest we can get to.
That is by getting you windedand getting your heart rate up
physically, like doing push-ups,making you sprint out, do
something and then try to goshoot something.
Speaker 5 (01:41:46):
It's a lot different than popping off from a 15-yard
line like that.
It needs to be put intoperspective too.
I think one of the stopstraining.
I'm assuming they still do thatup there at DOC.
Speaker 4 (01:41:57):
I'd say they do.
I don't know.
We've been going a while.
Speaker 5 (01:42:00):
But yeah, but that puts things into perspective,
because you're being a policeofficer, you're a superhero for
the most part, and you thinkyou're bulletproof and you're
not.
You don't ever think you'regoing to get shot at, you don't
ever think you're going to getshot.
You go through that stopstraining.
And I remember I mean I'llnever forget it, because I was
like you know I always thoughtin my head you know, your feet
(01:42:22):
are the first ones out You'regoing to be able to do all that.
The second scenario I wentthrough I popped my door, leaned
my head out and the guy thatwas in our class I mean he could
shoot the wings off of a gnatand he shot me right in the eye
through the crack of the door.
I said well, I mean I'm done.
I didn't even get to get out ofmy car, so I mean that right
(01:42:44):
there, puts it into perspectivefor you.
It don't matter, I mean there's.
Speaker 3 (01:42:49):
I'll tell you a quick funny story on me.
You remember when we all wentthrough rapid deployment again
you know, I don't know if youall did when they hosted all
that stuff, I had to go over toWattsburg, me and Joe Smith, and
(01:43:10):
final day you've done all thetactics and ran through and you
did all your searching and allthat.
So they came in they didn'ttell us where the, so you know
the subject was on this activeshooter.
You go to stimulate, but theycome around to let you know, to
(01:43:30):
speed it up, and they would popoff them sim rounds and just uh,
get you to chase them.
To speed up the scenarios tothe slow search, here I am.
This dude comes around, he wasan officer up there at
Weisberger somewhere.
He comes around and just doesthis around a corner door and
I'm down the stairs and he hitme right in the ankle.
(01:43:53):
Just boom Like that.
Speaker 5 (01:43:57):
You're out, I mean you're out.
Speaker 3 (01:44:00):
He's like, no, you don't get to get out that easy.
So I was like, oh my gosh, howlucky.
And that's the way it is.
You can get taken out just likethat by a straight, just
accidental, just to have likehere we are and that's how quick
you can be out of the fight, orI'm like it's just an ankle,
(01:44:21):
let's go.
Speaker 2 (01:44:22):
They were like oh, you're good, that's a pleasure,
let's go.
Speaker 3 (01:44:25):
But I remember thinking I'm out before I
started and that could happen.
Yeah, so be mentally preparedto go and anything could happen.
And my stress level went way upthen because I was like, ah,
that hurt, and then you'rerunning up them steps and trying
to find wherever that was, andall those tactics that you've
been practicing all week is,like, really quickly diminished.
(01:44:49):
Yeah, because of that stressBecause it got real, because
they had hostages in there andthey had bad guys in there.
That's a good training.
But training you have to trainyou do.
You can't sit back on yourhonchos and think I got this in
the academy or we've done thisbefore, Because nothing's the
same.
Speaker 4 (01:45:09):
And even on a small scale man.
I watch a lot of YouTube and Iwatch a lot of police shootings
and police interactions.
Watch a lot of YouTube and Iwatch a lot of police shootings
and police interactions.
I don't want to be judgmental,but I need to watch what
happened and then I need toanalyze and evaluate what would
I do differently.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you know.
So there's more than justclassroom training.
It's something you need to dosomething about every day to
stay in the, stay in the realmof it, especially if you carry a
(01:45:34):
gun for a living.
Speaker 3 (01:45:36):
When you don't, when you're not thinking you better
go and get out and it's time tohang it up.
Speaker 2 (01:45:42):
I'm kind of jealous of the people in the courthouse
where I'm at Probation.
They shoot three times a monthReally.
They don't even carry a gun inthe courthouse Not allowed to
carry one in the courthouse.
I am the only one allowed tocarry a gun in the courthouse,
but they shoot three times aweek.
We shoot once a year.
(01:46:02):
It makes no sense.
It just makes no sense.
Speaker 3 (01:46:13):
That was the oddest feeling when that courthouse,
when I went in there on a callto go to probation parole and
they were filling us in onsomething and to give up my
firearm to you guys you're likeuh-oh, that's a weird feeling
yeah.
Speaker 5 (01:46:24):
I'm not supposed to do this for anybody.
Speaker 2 (01:46:28):
We get a lot of flack over that.
When the FBI comes in DEASecrets, I don't care who they
are you're not bringing a guninside the score house.
That's the rule.
I'm with the FBI, sorry budthat's even more reason.
Speaker 4 (01:46:50):
I deal with it on the state level.
But here's what I was meetingwith the judge on Thursday and
she's contemplated the statelevel.
But here's what I here's what Iwas meeting with the judge on
on thursday and she'scontemplated taking every gun
out of the courthouse with theexception of court security.
And I just said I cautionagainst that, ma'am I said
because I want more guns in thecourthouse, especially the
(01:47:11):
people that are trained to usethem.
I you don't tell a plumber tocome fix your lanky sink and
leave his wrench in the car.
I agree, and she looked at melike I had one eye but I found
that.
Well, anyway, moving on, Ibetter not comment, but anyway I
hope I can deter that.
But I know, Doug's, it is arule and I know I'd always bug
(01:47:35):
me to have to leave my gun inthe cabinet and you know and I
understand why you can't do itat the jail.
But how many times have you putyour gun in the cabinet at the
jail and your old wife forgotyour?
Speaker 2 (01:47:46):
gun, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (01:47:48):
I worked about a six hour.
Speaker 4 (01:47:49):
I got to a point where I was putting my gun on my
gas pedal.
Yeah, Because I knew when mybig clumsy foot would touch my
gas pedal to drive off.
That was my key.
Oh, I better put my gun in theholster.
Speaker 5 (01:47:59):
I started throwing mine in my trunk.
Speaker 3 (01:48:01):
Arrested somebody Went and ate at Wendy's.
Oh Lord, really, I was a joke,took somebody to jail early,
went and ate at Wendy's andreached down like I always do
and wrenched my hand on my gun.
I was like it ain't there and Iworked four hours without a gun
(01:48:24):
and I didn't say nothing.
I said I gotta go right quick.
Guys, I had to go to thebathroom left, went back to jail
.
I got some paperwork in here.
I was like, oh my gosh, I'vedone that one time.
Speaker 2 (01:48:40):
I'm running radar Up down 461, up in Mount Vernon,
this car I made it.
It's running like 90 miles anhour.
I said that's good, I lock himin, I whip around, get him
pulled over and I get out of mycar, get all situated and
everything.
Well, he steps out, person ofit, he gets back to back about
(01:49:05):
the trunk of his car and I'm atprobably the front end of the
hood of mine.
He said hold up there.
I said what Stop?
I said what he said I need toask you a question.
I said what he said I need toask you a question.
I said yeah.
He said where's your gun at?
Oh, no, first words out of hismouth.
I went.
Speaker 4 (01:49:25):
I said uh yeah, you have a good day.
Speaker 2 (01:49:29):
Yeah, be careful, yeah that's very good when he
puts on a badge he said I'm withABC alcohol beverage control.
Yeah, and his big I know, youknow.
When he went to the badge hesaid I'm with the ABC Alcohol
Beverage Control and his big Iknow.
He's got a big, rough, huskyfeller.
I know you remember who he was.
He's from Somerset.
Oh.
But after he entered, where didyou leave?
Speaker 4 (01:49:47):
it at the jail, the jail.
Speaker 2 (01:49:48):
Yeah, yeah, I just slept there.
Yeah, I mean that's easily done.
It's very easily done, you know.
Speaker 4 (01:49:55):
I get it, but man, it's tough.
Speaker 5 (01:49:58):
But yeah, I was thinking, you know, I figured
you guys might ask my mostembarrassing police story, and I
was Well, we hadn't yet, butsince you mentioned it, you know
, travis alluded to it.
Speaker 4 (01:50:12):
Doug alluded to it.
When the public figures out youain't got no gun on, that's
pretty humiliating.
Speaker 5 (01:50:17):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (01:50:19):
Mine.
I don't know.
I mean I forgot my gun but Ialways managed to figure it out
before anybody else did.
I think best I remember maybe Idid no, when I was in Metro's
Police Academy I drove all theway from out running to
Lexington Metro Academy andforgot my whole gun belt.
Speaker 2 (01:50:33):
Oh, yeah, I got rid of me and forgot my whole gun
belt.
Speaker 4 (01:50:37):
Oh yeah, I got.
That's probably the reason theysaid you're not going to.
Probably that led to the fileof dismissal, but but anyway, I
was running right on 75northbound and I stopped a guy
between the the 90 and the 95and I got his license and and I
I set his license in my lapwhile I typed his ticket.
And uh, so I got done typinghis ticket and I looked for his
(01:51:01):
license and it had evaporated.
Don't know where it went and Ilooked and boys, there ain't no
tactical, promising way to lookfor a man's license underneath
the seat of your cruise room.
Speaker 5 (01:51:16):
And there's an abyss between the seat and the.
Speaker 1 (01:51:19):
French fries, mints all kinds of.
Speaker 5 (01:51:23):
That console and between that console and seat,
if you go down there, I've beenlooking for that for a year I
knew that's where it was.
Speaker 4 (01:51:30):
But how?
How do you fix it on the sideof the interstate with a
motorist 40 feet in front of you?
I looked, and I looked and Itried to look up and see if he
was looking in his mirror.
I know he was and I wasthinking man Barney Five stopped
me.
I never found it.
I walked up to his car and Isaid, buddy, listen, I'm just
going to be honest with you.
Speaker 2 (01:51:50):
Here's your ticket, by the way, slow down, I'm torn
up, down, I'm torn up.
I probably would I know.
Speaker 4 (01:51:58):
Then I said I've really misplaced your license,
but I will find it and I'll mailit to you.
You be careful.
He was a little bit aggravated,and rightfully so.
Speaker 5 (01:52:06):
But that's okay.
I got a ticket and it's goingto cost me.
It costs him $22 to get hislicense.
Speaker 4 (01:52:11):
If you knew how hard it was for me to learn to do
e-citation.
You would appreciate that.
Yeah, I mean, that was tough.
And then hit print and thenyou're hoping your printer works
.
Speaker 3 (01:52:23):
Oh my gosh, it wasn't a smooth transition for me.
I hope it was for you, phil.
No, I remember we had themjunky printers that you know,
after we went away from thecarbon, the ones that done the
heat.
Yeah, those were okay becausethey were at least connected.
I'm talking when we've got them,ones that we sit in our seats
(01:52:44):
there, that would connectsometime.
Or the paper jam.
I remember going out getting myfirst ticket early on the FOT.
You know I was working onfederal overtime.
You out there, hit that thing,hit print and have nothing,
nothing and it jammed up.
You know I was working onfederal overtime.
You out there, hit that thing,hit print, nothing nothing and
it jammed up.
Speaker 2 (01:52:59):
That was in my Canon printer.
Speaker 3 (01:53:01):
Yes, I was just screaming up for 20 minutes on
the stop I couldn't print outthis ticket.
You know what, trevor?
I was the reason we got them.
Uh, oh well, here's the dealwith the one so I had.
That still sucks.
I let that person go Went home.
You know we had Went home,didn't work any.
(01:53:23):
Came out on a day off to workthat Got so mad at that printer.
I think I broke it Pretty sureand went home.
Wasted my time, wasted a bunchof that person's time.
I'm serious.
I'm on the side of the road for30 minutes with them and like I
can't get nothing done here.
(01:53:43):
When I changed cars they wasdoing inventory.
You know y'all do inventorieson the cars.
They found four printers in theback of my crib.
That's one of the reasons.
That's where the reason is.
Speaker 5 (01:53:58):
That reminds me of another story.
So on those same printers, wealways did have problems with
them.
Once we went to the thermalprinters it was great, but those
printers sucked.
Speaker 3 (01:54:08):
So we had thermal.
Speaker 2 (01:54:09):
See, I had mine connected directly.
I didn't do no Bluetoothing.
Speaker 5 (01:54:13):
I ended up connecting mine, but I went through one.
It didn't work.
Little Lee got me another one.
I don't he probably pulled?
It out of one of the four thatcame out of your car and this is
how I know it probably came outof your car.
Speaker 3 (01:54:23):
It wouldn't work either, and it was jammed that's
because I smashed it, probablyon the front we took it
completely apart, and there wasa corn dog stick stuck out.
(01:54:54):
That's great.
Let's do this some more.
We'll end it here.
We've got to keep coming backfor some more of this.
I don't know what the time is.
Speaker 5 (01:55:04):
We're close to two hours.
That's good.
Speaker 3 (01:55:07):
Didn't it go by fast?
I've enjoyed it, man, I havetoo.
It's fun.
Speaker 2 (01:55:11):
I appreciate you guys bringing this in.
I mean, I love it.
Speaker 3 (01:55:14):
Well, listen you guys , don't think you're in, You're
always invited.
I mean, what I'd like for youto do is let's bring those other
guys in here.
Speaker 4 (01:55:24):
Well, steve Long is like a robot.
He talks monotony, he tellssome funny stories, but you'll
never know it by the way hetalks.
Speaker 1 (01:55:31):
So you get him in here and he's got a lot of
little Doug Thomas disease hemight embellish one to quantify
more life.
Speaker 3 (01:55:39):
I didn't hear any lies.
Speaker 2 (01:55:40):
tonight I did have to tell one on stage before I
leave.
Yeah, and he was notorious forwearing that campaign hat while
he was driving.
Why he never took it off hardagain.
He didn't.
Speaker 4 (01:55:56):
It was a gold ball or something.
No ball or something.
Speaker 2 (01:56:00):
No it had to be on his head.
Well, he gets after afour-wheeler down in Pine Hill
and he's driving, he's goingaround and we get in this man's
yard.
We're just doing donuts in thisguy's yard, rooster tails are
flying straight up and anywayhis car gets stuck.
(01:56:23):
It won't go well, he jumps out.
When he jumps out I guess hishead hits the, his hat hits the
top of the car.
Well, it flies off.
He's running around.
He's gone for 10 minutes andI'm'm out there and he's
squalling.
He does arrest the guy.
He gets him arrested.
I don't know how, but he did.
(01:56:44):
And he said bring a car up here.
I said I don't think I can getit out.
He said see if you can get itout.
I said, okay, I get in.
I put it in reverse, it backsup.
It backed up, kind of easedaround, I get back up on the
road, finally Pull up there.
At first he said where's my hatat?
I go, I don't know.
(01:57:04):
I don't know where it's at.
He ain't got it.
You're using a gun.
You're holding on to that thinglike a baby holding on to a
bottle.
You're a stiff, tony, yeah.
But anyway, we get the guy inthe car.
We we gotta go back down thereand get my hat.
I said, okay, well, we driveback down there and I I get out,
we search around and I walkover it and I backed over it.
Speaker 6 (01:57:25):
I mean it oh yeah, he looks at him what I'll do now.
Speaker 2 (01:57:31):
I said, well, we'll get you a new one somewhere.
He truly wore it everywhere hewent he did, buddy, he is.
Speaker 4 (01:57:34):
I'll tell you a good one.
Well, that's the story.
It everywhere he went.
He did, buddy.
I'll tell you a good one.
Well, that's the same thing.
Tell the story about the nightwe were sitting at the 911
playing cards.
Oh Did.
I tell you have you told itbefore?
I don't think so Hot mic.
Speaker 2 (01:57:47):
Oh yeah, we were sitting.
We go to the sheriff's office.
Actually, we were going to goplay Rook or something probably
yeah, it was late at night, itwas raining.
Speaker 4 (01:57:55):
To all you listeners who raining and late at night go
ahead.
Speaker 2 (01:58:01):
We get into the sheriff's office.
We're sitting there and Stevewalks in.
He takes his hat off when hegets inside.
We just tosses it like thatover on the desk.
We're on that desk, it's wherethe sheriff's office radio is,
because it during the day thesecretary would actually would
do whatever, not the jailjailbird yeah well, he toss it
(01:58:23):
over, keys the mic up.
Of course we're unbeknownst to.
Speaker 3 (01:58:27):
You're at the sheriff's office.
Yeah, we're at the sheriff'soffice, okay but it was that I
could communicate.
Speaker 2 (01:58:33):
It was right, it was a yeah, we could communicate
with other deputies, whatever.
But anyway, keys the mic up andwe're sitting there
chitter-chattering and carryingon about doing this and doing
that and what good talk.
I would say that.
But phone rings it.
I said, hmm, it was like 2o'clock in the morning or
(01:58:58):
something like that.
Hello, sheriff's Office.
It was a deputy.
He said I think you got yourradio keyed up there.
I go why.
He said I'm hearing everythingyou said.
I've heard everything you'veall said.
Of course there was a lot ofpublic cuss.
Who knows what I would say Idon't remember.
I do remember but I'm not goingto tell it.
Let's put it that way.
(01:59:19):
I said oh my Lord.
We're looking around everywhereand I just happened to glance
over there on the desk and therewas that big campaign.
Hat Got that microphone keyedup.
I grabbed that hat and saidthere throw it to him.
Yeah, it wasn't good had aSpathagor, because back then
everybody had a scanner.
I mean there was no encryptionor nothing like that.
(01:59:43):
So everybody in scanner landheard everything we said.
I'm surprised somebody didn'tcall and say you got a bunch of
wild men up there.
You can do something with that.
Speaker 5 (01:59:54):
I want to tell one of them You've got a bunch of wild
men up there.
Speaker 4 (01:59:58):
You can do something.
Speaker 3 (01:59:59):
They were just sitting back with the popcorn.
I want to tell one of them,doug Thomas.
Oh, absolutely, we got all that.
This is where I want it.
Speaker 4 (02:00:03):
We're getting tired.
But we were sitting at Denny'sone night.
That's where we'd go Mostnights of the week.
We'd convene our policeoperations at Denny's at X-62.
Oh yeah, and we all had thesame things.
We'd order Mine was a sampler,you couldn't beat them Denny's
chicken strips and cheese sticks, buddy, listen, heaven.
But anyway, we were sittingthere and Doug was monotonous, I
(02:00:27):
mean, he was just he would dipright there.
Well, that night he was dippingin a Denny's cup.
Now you know where this isgoing.
Yep, and this is a tribute toour old, dear friend, now
deceased buddy, jimmy Silver.
And Jimmy was the gang leader.
He'd mentored a bunch of us.
We'd all sit around this table.
(02:00:48):
It was a round table.
If you go there to this dayit's a Mexican restaurant, but
that booth is still there,awesome.
And Jimmy always sat in thesame spot and we'd fill in
around him and we'd laugh andtalk.
Well, jimmy got done eating andI believe he liked, was it Dr
Pepper?
Yeah, he loved Dr Pepper.
Well, dr Pepper kind of lookslike Ambeer Old Jimmy.
(02:01:11):
He was thirsty, he was eating.
I think Moons Over Miami washis favorite meal.
Moons Over Miami was hisfavorite meal.
Moons Over Miami.
He was drinking and he rinsedand he got the wrong cup and he
turned it up and down, it wentand he went oh duh.
(02:01:31):
And we started laughing.
Jimmy didn't like to be theblood of the joke.
I never did like to be theblood of the joke, but, boy, the
joke was on him.
Oh Doug, I'll kill you.
You know what he said if ithadn't been anybody else, I'd
have killed him.
Speaker 2 (02:01:51):
I'd have killed him oh Doug, yeah, he said it two,
three times yeah, that was a ohbubba bubba.
Speaker 4 (02:02:02):
He quit drinking what , what the cup or the rest of we
eating, and he quit using thatfor his big cup.
Speaker 3 (02:02:10):
That's awesome.
Speaker 4 (02:02:11):
Yeah, that's awesome, it's awful but hey, listen, I
appreciate you guys letting mecome on.
We've enjoyed it.
Speaker 5 (02:02:19):
We've got to sit back and kind of just listen to the
caterwauling.
Speaker 4 (02:02:23):
Well, this dude here, man, I'm proud to call him my
friend.
We were buddies.
I used to.
I'd court to.
He was a before he was a deputy.
He was like the cashier atCarter's Market, not clerk.
He was a desk before he was adeputy.
He was like the cashier atCarter's Market, not clerk.
He was an out clerk.
He'd roll in at 11 and worktill 7 in the morning and I'd
(02:02:43):
court till Friday night and Iused to think of reasons to
leave my girlfriends early so Icould go up and hang out with
Bubba at Carter's.
Market and I'd sit with himuntil 3 o'clock in the morning.
We'd laugh and make fun of eachother.
But man, this guy's been mybuddy for years, a long time.
We've been through a lottogether and I love him Love him
like my brother.
I never had that's awesome.
(02:03:04):
I love you too I mean, I'd tellhim that yesterday we rode
four-wheelers yesterday andabout every time I leave him I
lot about dealing with peopleand you know and I know he did
you fellas too just theinteraction, social interaction.
He's one of the best rightthere.
Speaker 2 (02:03:20):
I prayed all the kindness, I really appreciate it
listen.
Speaker 5 (02:03:24):
This has been, this has been fun for me yeah, I've
got to show it up too, and it'srare for me.
Speaker 3 (02:03:29):
I know.
Sorry everybody, but I have.
This is what I wanted.
This is I have.
This is what I wanted.
This is you guys.
This is what it's about, and Ilove getting out of just what we
know, because I don't know all.
We're friends.
I've known you for a while butI had no idea all your stories
(02:03:50):
and your shenanigans you gotinto and that's.
We're going to continue thisone we're going to have some fun
.
Speaker 5 (02:03:55):
It's just as much entertaining to me as it is
anybody listening, because it'sjust a lot of stories.
I've heard the goal of this andwhat I've told.
Speaker 3 (02:04:03):
when I tell people like, hey, listen to this, we're
just it's like man, you're onto something there.
I'm like maybe we'll see We'vegot to get beyond just our
little region, yeah, and get outthere and spread, you know
maybe this way I've got a couple.
Speaker 2 (02:04:18):
I'm sure Foote's got plenty.
Speaker 1 (02:04:19):
Oh I know, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (02:04:20):
Just get them.
I mean, I don't know if you cando it remotely, or however you
can do it.
Listen, I'm ready to starttraveling.
I'm ready to start getting onthe road.
Don't know how barren it feels.
Greg Brown.
Yeah, he's a good storyteller,oh my gosh, yeah, I could tell
(02:04:41):
one right now.
I mean, you'd laugh, your honey, will he come on?
You think, oh yeah, oh yeah, Ibelieve he would Well save him.
Speaker 3 (02:04:47):
Then, yeah, I'm To sit right here without this mic
in front of my face, hard tobelieve, and just listen to that
and let you all have it.
And that's what's fun aboutthis, because I don't know
everybody's story and I want tohear it Just as much.
I like telling stuff andhearing it.
I just want to sit back andjust enjoy it and laugh at you,
(02:05:08):
because there's some I mean weget into stupid stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:05:10):
I've met a couple guys down at Fletzy and one's a
retired Louisiana State Trooper.
We got to get him.
Oh my God, I mean hey, we gotto figure it out.
He could bring you to tears,laughing, just like that.
Speaker 5 (02:05:26):
Does he have a Cajun accent?
Speaker 2 (02:05:30):
Not real bad, but you can tell he's from the South
very much.
Speaker 3 (02:05:34):
So that's the goal.
We'll keep bringing them in andy'all.
It'd be cool.
We don't have to be the MCs ofit, we don't have to sit here,
we can just do it.
Y'all can do it.
Speaker 4 (02:05:46):
I'm old, I only know about three stories and I've
done twice tonight.
Speaker 2 (02:05:52):
I'm scared to death.
You've got plenty.
Speaker 3 (02:05:55):
That's what frightens me, but you've got to be
careful with the ones you takewhat scares me is we get old and
nobody the next generationbehind us will never hear these
funny stories that they canbuild off of and help their
career, or just who we reallyare as people.
(02:06:16):
Not just that badge that wewore yeah, but we're well, I'm
into.
Speaker 2 (02:06:22):
I was telling hammer up at the courthouse the other
day I said you know, I don'tknow nobody at the PD.
Mm-hmm.
I said do you think theyremember who I am?
Did they know who I?
Probably not.
So that's, that's really sad ina lot of ways.
That make me know, makes youbecause you of course, you gain
a lot of friends.
Speaker 5 (02:06:41):
You know the friends you used to work with they're
there, but the new guys wellthey, they say you're relevant
once you retire, you're relevantfor about six months and then
that's it.
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I agree,I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (02:06:55):
And that deep in your heart you're like, that hurts
because, I gave them so much, Ibroke bones, bled for them cried
Well, that's the cool.
Speaker 4 (02:07:05):
Thing about what you guys are doing.
It gives you to pay tribute topeople who have gone before us.
You know we talk about Jimmy alot tonight, but we honor Jimmy.
His wife, nancy, still mournshis loss, but I mean we honor
him.
Yeah, I'll tell you an examplethat backs up what I'm saying
and this goes to all of you.
(02:07:26):
This is a state police story,but you can insert London PD
Laurel, so whatever you want toinsert, because guys have paved
the way and established thelines, the rules of engagement,
if you will, long before we didso.
This is a way to pay tributeand homage to them.
(02:07:47):
But I was over on 577.
It was on a Sunday afternoonand I turned on a.
I mean, you all know what adrunk looks like.
I'm talking to a bunch ofseasoned professionals here.
He had that red face, thatcigarette dangling, and I met
him.
And to me, I tried to be adrunk hunter and Sunday
afternoons was my best time.
Friday and Saturday night wasgood, but I'm telling you Sunday
(02:08:08):
afternoon wasn't.
Anyway, I met him and I turnedon him Old Kirby's, you know,
577, old Kirby Road.
Well, I sped up about a mileand a half, couldn't find him.
I know he turned off.
So I turned around and wentback, circled back to check on
him and I rolled up on thedriveway that had a trailer that
ran perpendicular to the roador, I'm sorry, parallel to the
(02:08:29):
road.
It was even with the road andthe driveway was gravel and
there were skid marks going inthe driveway.
I thought, well, there he is.
Well, I wheeled around and Ipulled in the driveway and, sure
enough, there's the vehiclethat I turned on.
Well, I'm young, I'm hunting aDUI and in my opinion, he ran
for me.
(02:08:50):
I knock on the door.
Guy opens the door up and hesays hey, trooper, how can I
help you?
I say I need to come in and Ilook and I see the guy I just
met moments earlier sitting onthe couch breathing heavy.
I said I need to talk to thatguy.
He said well, come on in.
So I gave a field sobriety testin the living room of that
house.
I know, I know I've got aformer major and a former chief
(02:09:14):
and you're going Sergeant, oh myGod, what are you doing?
But I'm a trooper, I'm huntinga DUI.
Well, I gave him a few sobrietytests and I said, sir, are you
going to jail for DUI.
Well, the guy that opened thedoor and his six friends.
They were playing pool andcards, they were drinking.
He said, buddy, you ain'ttaking our friend to jail for
(02:09:36):
dui I'm one guy and I ain'tchuck norris.
I can't whip three men, I can'twhip two men.
This is this is escalating toyou gotta have the ron white
mentality yeah, I don't know howmany they it's gonna take, but
I don't have any they're gonnause exactly, and uh, and you
know, and everything that Iteach was defined in that moment
(02:09:58):
, right there, because they'rewatching me and I'm watching
them.
It's probably the only ClintEastwood moment I've ever had in
my whole career, but I'm scaredto death.
Speaker 1 (02:10:08):
You talk about fear a while ago.
Speaker 4 (02:10:10):
T Dot I was scared to death because there's eight of
them in there looking at me madbecause I'm getting ready to
take one of their dudes to jail.
He said you ain't takinganybody to jail?
And his friend looks at him andhe said man, that's a Kentucky
State Trooper you're talking toNow.
That's a tribute to the men andwomen who have gone before me.
(02:10:30):
Again, this is not just atrooper moment.
This is the same thing.
Could be London PD, that is.
Or not just a trooper moment.
This is the same thing.
Could be London PD, that is.
Or Laura Leso.
That's a tribute to those whohave paved my way and made it
easier for me.
Yeah, now that turned out theywere willing to fight me, taking
him for DUI, but post hollereda few minutes later and said 902
(02:10:51):
, are you 10-12?
I'm like, yeah, dummy, I'mstanding here with them all.
You know it's 10-4 that vehiclestole out of Corbin they was
going to fight for a DUI.
But when they heard that theysat back down and said bubby on
y'all we ain't going on the mapfor a stolen vehicle.
No honor among thieves, we'reout on that one, but that was a
(02:11:12):
credit right there to all.
I tell that story when I getaround police reunions and troop
reunions because that's acredit to the gray-haired men
right now who are feeble andgetting old.
But hey, listen, you paved theway for a guy like me and I hope
that the young guys will saythat about me.
Speaker 3 (02:11:28):
And they will, and that's the cool thing about it.
Hopefully, even though we don'tknow them, their traditions and
the things they hear from us.
Hopefully we paved the way too,Made it a little easier for
them.
They've learned from our sillymistakes in life.
That's part of it too.
We took some hard ways, we didit the hard way sometimes.
(02:11:50):
Maybe that helped them do it alittle easier, a little smarter.
I agree.
Good, that's awesome.
That's an awesome story.
Speaker 5 (02:11:59):
Alright we'll shut up Everybody good.
Speaker 2 (02:12:03):
Just one more.
Speaker 3 (02:12:04):
We'll keep going.
This was so much fun.
Speaker 2 (02:12:07):
Thank you all so much .
Thank you all for having us.
Speaker 5 (02:12:08):
Alright, guys, catch us on the next one.
See ya, we'll see you next time.
Outro Music.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I got new hearing aids.
I got two, now the V8 special.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Do they work better.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, I can listen to my podcast.
Oh, you can.
Out of both ears now.
Oh really, one in each ear.
Speaker 5 (00:45):
One in each ear.
Different podcast, each yearpodcast.
Oh, you can Out of both earsnow.
Oh really, one in each ear, onein each ear, different podcast
each ear.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
So when did you?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
get that Last week, okay, because you know, I wore
one, yeah.
And then I went to the VA and Isaid, let me try two.
They're like, your hearing'sokay on this ear, you don't need
it.
However, them this year, youdon't need it.
However, I was like, well, arethey free?
And they was like, yeah.
(01:10):
I was like, well, give me two,give me two, yeah, because I was
like I wear them, like I meanI'm very consistent and I do
like like walk around school andstuff, I'll turn them like a
sucker.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
So I don't listen to music, or oh, there's bluetooth.
Yeah, it's just a hands uplisten to music, or oh, it's
bluetooth.
Yeah, it's just a hands up.
If you're listening to yourmusic and gunshots start at the
front door, would you know it?
Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, that'sit, I hope.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
I hope I can hear you never hear the one to get you
anyways no that's what they say.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I went golfing yesterday or the day before,
whatever, and my brother waslike I thought you got no
hearing aids, I'm not listening.
I'm listening to the Sean Ryanshow.
It's a good podcast.
It's not this one.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
We were just talking about it before you got here.
We said we got mints and water.
Sean, we were just talkingabout it before you got here.
We said we got mints and water,and there's one.
Sean Ryan gives out seeds.
I wish we would have that.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I wish you did.
He did there for a while.
It's a gummy bear A little 365.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, I'd take it in a minute.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
I'll be a regular guest on your podcast.
You boys start handing out gum.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
I'll clear my schedule.
He said give me one of thesewhen you at now AOC.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
I'm their court security guy.
I'm over the protection detailfor Supreme Court and the Court
of Appeals and then I also workwith each of the sheriffs.
Well, court security for eachsheriff to kind of keep our
judges safe.
We've got about 280 judgesacross the state.
You hiring me?
I'm ready to get out of theschool business.
You tired of the schoolbusiness?
I ain't right now.
(02:50):
God dang it.
John Pratt man.
John Pratt was you know, john,don't you.
John was contemplatingretirement but his mother-in-law
moved in with him, so I thinkhe's probably I'd have to fight
Doug.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Well, you ain't going to leave your gig up there, are
you, me Heck, no.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
No, he's good.
Speaker 6 (03:06):
Yeah, that's a gravy train right there, you ain't a
kid.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Ask him on the Tuesday of the full week that
he's worked, and then he might.
He grumbles a little bit.
Tuesday is the busiest day thatwe usually have Did y'all have
court yesterday.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Yes, that place it shut down.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Well, they're doing all that construction work up
there.
I guess that's why.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
But it's pretty outside.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I was expecting to see somebody walking around.
Let me tell you, it's Mondaythrough Friday.
Tuesday and Thursday is usuallythe busiest days.
Sound like me?
Don't have no, but there's justnot a lot of traffic in and out
there unless you've gotprobationary people coming there
to go to probation office.
(03:51):
That's about it.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
I just appreciate it and I eat everything in the
restaurant.
I'm full plus.
I finished off with a big hotfudge cake.
Oh, you have to.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Was it the full-size?
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Yes, People in the booth next to me were laughing
when I was licking my plate.
Gosh, that hot fudge cake.
It's so good, man, did youshare?
No, I did my wife to give me abite.
Where'd she go.
Where'd she at?
Oh, they left.
How are you getting home?
Speaker 3 (04:22):
I guess they're sitting in.
I'm here spending an hour.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
He can sleep with Daisy Juggle riding yesterday.
Oh yeah, had a good time 65miles 65 miles.
What yeah, when we're at RedHill, Jackson County area S-Tree
.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Yeah, what was your own Jeep?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Sibeside, sibeside, yeah S tree.
Yeah, what was your own jeepSiperside?
Oh, I love it.
Karen always says I said youcare if I go riding with Foote?
Speaker 3 (04:49):
She says no, you go she's got you out for at least
15 hours.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Foote makes you a better person when you come up,
she said.
I hope it don't have theopposite effect on him.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
I love my brother Thomas time.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
You got one police.
You got one in the state policearea.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Yeah, a voice trooper , are we going?
Are we rolling?
Yeah, we're hot, oh, we've beenhot for a while.
Speaker 5 (05:13):
That's what he does today.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Did you catch the story about?
Speaker 5 (05:18):
repelling.
No, okay, no, you'll get totell him again if you want to.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
I better not.
I'm kind of sensitive.
Well, you'll get to tell himagain.
If you won't tell him, I betternot.
I'm kind of sensitive.
Well, you never know.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
So intro here, because I'm limited on stories.
This is going to be the Dougand Foot conversation and we'll
just laugh a lot.
So I do want to tell you onestory before we get started.
I do want to tell you one storybefore we get started.
I'm down in Atlanta, Georgia,on a spring break of all places,
and we're standing at the OmniHotel right next to like all the
(05:59):
.
We went down there for theaquarium and the Coke Museum and
all that stuff and we was goinggonna watch a basketball game,
hawks game.
We're staying there.
We come down this elevator orI'm getting ready to go up the
(06:21):
elevator and ding and I look upand there's foot.
He grabs me and hugs me.
My wife's sitting there likewho is that?
What is going on here?
That's my buddy.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
I hadn't seen him in a couple years.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
There we are looking at each other in Atlanta, small
world.
Some of you are like what areyou doing?
Speaker 4 (06:42):
He's there for a drug conference or something I don't
know if it was that or was itSEC tournament, I don't know, I
don't remember.
It may have been a drugconference.
I was down there some for that.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I think it was because there wasn't that many
people, that like it wasn'tpacked, it was just normal
spring break traffic.
I was like what are you doinghere?
He said what are you doing here?
I was like I'm here on vacation, you know everybody talks about
.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Everybody talks about the police, brotherhood and the
fraternity and that's.
You know that's what it is.
You know I can pick up, I canleave here tonight and I'll see
you for five years.
But when we will embraceabsolutely, we will share our
life and we will.
It's just we reconnect quickerthan any other occupation just
like you saw them yesterday.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yeah, yeah it's so much bull and craziness.
Yeah, that you, when you sayyou know, I know what you went
through and I know what Doug'swent through and I know what
Bill's been through, and it'sjust that calm and bring you
together like, yeah, you've hadto, you've had to muddle through
the muck and mire and and thenastiness, and then you've not,
(07:50):
we've got that common bond.
Yeah, and that's what's.
That's what's cool about thisline of work.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
It's slowly dying out , unfortunately true friends,
true friends I think they'llalways be that way yeah
Speaker 2 (08:03):
you'll always yeah yeah, well, we may not talk for
four or five months.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Well, we talk soon more, now more now.
But if we didn't, if we didn't,we'd be fine, we'd be fine we
would be, I mean.
Lord, I think of him every day,something he said or done yeah,
I love.
Doug Thomas.
Yes, I mean he we'll tell astory or two on him as we
(08:28):
progress along.
But to your point, dylan, it'snot what it was.
Because there's so muchpressure on the police now and
when you factor in and I don'tknow how political you guys get,
and my intention is not to getpolitical but when you factor in
that the FBI goes aroundtelling all the police, if you
(08:48):
don't tell us what you know onyour buddy, then we're coming
after you too.
Well, that kind of sets a tone.
It's a little bit hard for meto trust the dudes I work with.
Now I'm not saying I'm corrupt,I'm not saying that I'm a bad
police officer, but when thattone and that culture gets
established in the ranks it'sreally hard to overcome and that
(09:10):
hurts that fraternity.
Now I know people in there havebeen.
Well, what are you saying?
I'm saying that there's afraternity here, I trust my
brothers.
And when you enter in a factor,when you factor in an entity
that says we're going toprosecute you if you don't tell
everything you know on yourbuddy and you get everybody on
edge.
I hope that Trump's Departmentof Justice will change it.
(09:35):
I mean you know ultimatelypolice are going to be a target
going forward.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
They just thought Anytime when we talked about
that.
Anytime you have the ability totake someone's freedom we
talked about that Anytime youhave the ability to take
someone's freedom, you can hearall about somebody preachers,
teachers.
It's sad when you hear thembeing bad or doing something
wrong, but nothing fills theairways and gets more clicks
(09:59):
than an officer Like a policeofficer messing up.
Exactly, and it's really thatthe power that's given to us.
I didn't understand it when Ifirst got hired.
It's a huge responsibility.
It is, and you can't take thatlightly.
You have to know what you'regetting into.
(10:20):
You've got to do your duediligence.
You've got to do good casework.
You've got to do your duediligence, you got to do good
casework.
You got to do these things, andthat's that's why people look
at it, because we have that alittle bit more way and you're
kind of starting behind theeight ball now with the way,
with the media, the media andeverything is.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
You're already starting.
So you've got to prove yourselfto the public that this you
know I'm not that one bad appledoes not represent all of us.
So it's you know, it'sinteresting.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Yeah, it is.
I didn't mean to get allserious right at the start.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
We'll go back around we try and stay on the lighter
side here, but we end up seriousyou know, people just need to
understand what.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Yeah, we're trying to promote the fun side and trying
to say, hey, policing is notthis or this, it's not what you
see all the time.
It's not what they make us ontv is.
There's a little bit of thatlaw and order tv show and
there's also a little bit of theother guys, and doug said it
the best I've I've heard yet,and I don't know why, it just
(11:23):
came to me when you said thatwas this like a?
we're like a movie or a playyeah, we're playing a part, and
everybody's it changes.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
We play in movies.
Well, like I said before it's,you can have drama, horror,
comedy.
It just goes on down that way.
You never know what it's goingto be like.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
It could change from call to call, or a phone call
from a buddy can change it.
It changes how you're feelingyour emotion, what's going on,
so it could become a tragedyinto comedy real quick.
Yes, it can Go ahead with theintro, since we've been on for a
while.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
All right, yeah, we've been yapping for a while,
got another good episode for youguys today.
I think this one's going to bea lot of fun.
We may actually get to sit backand not yap as much, because I
think these two may take up alot of the air.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
That's tough for me if you can't do it.
That is tough for.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
T-Dot.
I have heard a few times.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
From your.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
That's what it is, but it seems like Doug has been
mentioned in almost everypodcast that we've done from
some sort.
We don't know why, but somebodyhas referenced him or a quote
or something.
But he's back with us.
We've had several people askwhen he was coming back, so he's
finally back.
(12:42):
And then we've got Foot with usthere.
I am a product of Doug Thomas,so he's finally back.
And then we've got Foot with usFoot.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
There.
I am a product of Doug Thomasand therefore I have the stories
to tell.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Ask him how he got the name Foot.
Well, that's where we're comingin.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
It's really anticlimactic, but anyway, I'm
good with it.
I'm glad to be here, man.
This is fun.
I love to talk and I'm ahighfalutin because I get to
hear myself talking theseheadphones, yeah, these
headphones.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
You're going to be a chatterbox tonight.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Some people can't stand to hear it on their phone.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
Yeah, I'm a little goofy, but I've found if you're
going to succeed in life, you'vegot to laugh at yourself.
You've got to, and this guyright here in front of me
probably taught me that many,many years ago.
Speaker 5 (13:31):
He was my first FTO.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
That explains why he's rolling his eyes.
Listen, I mean, I didn't reallyknow.
I wanted to be a police officer.
I was a senior in high schooland we went to project
graduation training Rock CastleCounty.
My class 1988 was the firstclass to have project graduation
, at least at Rock Castle County, and we went to a seminar in
(13:52):
Louisville to to learn how to dothat, raise money for it and
also what to do.
You know, did for a safealternative for a graduation
party of what it was built.
So anyway, I go there and it'smainly put on by the state
police.
I'd kind of already beenthinking.
(14:13):
I mean, you know how it is whenyou're in high school, you
change your mind five or sixtimes.
But I watched those guys inthat uniform where that campaign
at and I was like man, I wantto do that.
They're silent professionals,you know, just walk around and
just they're so nice toeverybody, I'm like man, I'm
gonna do it.
Then I went home and told mymom.
My mom told me I was crazy,Don't even think that way.
So, I went to school.
I went to school at SiouxBennett.
(14:34):
I got a degree in secondaryeducation, but I went to Eastern
.
I got over there, you know, andI'd drive by the state police
post every day.
I'm going to be a trooper, it'sright there on campus basically
.
I'm going to be a trooper.
So I tried and tried.
I tried four times.
They finally hired me on thefourth try.
I guess they thought, man, thisdude won't keep coming back.
Speaker 5 (14:52):
We're going to hire him.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
So they took a chance on me.
But you know I first got hiredas a deputy.
I went in Shirley Smith, theguy that hired Doug A diamond in
the rough.
Old Shirley pulled him out ofthe charcoal and shined him up.
He was my first FTO.
You know how it is.
It consists of ride-alongs andstuff.
(15:18):
I was trying to piece togetherone uniform.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Poor folk, wasn't it?
We was poor folk, I didn't evenget paid.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
I was a wannabe so I wanted to look the part.
So I'd have a vinyl holster anda leather belt and a mask and
whatever.
I mean, you know, I look like aconstable in the very poorest
district of the county.
That's what I look like.
But anyway, I rode with Doug.
(15:48):
We did get to a point whereShirley paid me a little bit if
Doug walked off.
But we only had one cruiser, soif Doug could get off ship he'd
have to bring me a car that Icould drive the boat with.
I mean, it would ideal.
I literally worked 46s, youknow, at Ejier Acc's on the
interstate in my pickup truck.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
I'd flip my hazard lights on and get out and block
the interstate.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
And Doug, done it too when you hit more than one man
can handle and I've oftenwondered.
I worked a pretty bad recordfrom people from Michigan and
Ohio collectively one morningabout 4.30 in Rock Castle.
At that time you weredispatched by the inmates
because the 911 was in the jail,so the inmates would often call
(16:35):
you and wake you up at night,right or Wilmer.
Wilmer was the.
God rest his soul.
He was the deputy jailer andthey'd call me and they sent me
to a wreck and I rolled out.
I didn't have nothing but myleather belt and what I told you
, and I rolled out and peoplelooked at me and I said I
promise, I'm legit, I'm here towork the wreck, but I didn't
(16:57):
know much and Shirley smoked apipe.
He's a great big man.
I want to put you working theroad.
You know, and that was mynickname and I mean, like I said
, that's kind of anticlimacticbecause well.
I mean, you know, that was mycuss word.
I would say I flew it.
Well, I can sure tell you.
(17:17):
Unfortunately, I've managed tosay a more since that, since the
indoctrination of that word,but anyways, I'm glad they were
with foot than the latter.
So I went to the state policeacademy in 96 and Jimmy Silver's
old unit 660 and he was mybuddy mentor, him and Doug
mentored me and he kind ofshowed me how it was.
(17:40):
But but I, jimmy, called uppart of the academy and said
that Allen boy call him CadetFoot.
Well, they did.
And then after I left theacademy it was just they dropped
Cadet and I was Foot and youknow I don't get called that
much anymore.
Where I'm at now.
Nobody really knows me as Foot.
Whatever man, I don't answer toanything.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
I didn't know your real name until, like, yeah,
I've been up in rock castle fora little while.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
I've heard people say that man, a lot of people say
that.
But I tell this story.
He knows I'm going to tell itbecause every time we we offer,
every time that we enter in anew person in our realm, in our
little circle, gets a littlebetter.
I always tell it on him.
But but you, know I was astudious young police officer.
I wanted to do it right.
We went down to the BroadheadApartments and there was an old
(18:30):
girl in there that needed to goto jail.
Well, I was young andimpressionable.
Doug said get her.
Well, you want me to charge herwith?
I don't care, get her Well.
I snatched her up and we walkedher outside and put her in the
car In our her up.
We walked her outside, put herin the car in our 1990 ford.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Uh was it ltd or uh is uh.
When did you?
When was that?
I don't know.
I think it was 80.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Well, it was 94 when you were ordering me what to do
but I want to thank you for 92ford.
Okay, well, anyway, we'll get inthe car and she's, he's
aggravated.
I don't know if he worked ahard shift or what, but he
wasn't really in the mood todeal with me or her.
And we were on our way to thejail and and she was running
that mouth back there in theback seat and I was wanting to
(19:15):
fill out the tickets, you know,trying to be studious, and I was
trying to fill out every blockappropriately, you know, and I
guess I was writing a little bitof a voluminous narrative on
the citation and I wanted tomake sure that it was right.
I did not know you could chargepeople.
You could not charge peoplewith alcohol intoxication in
their apartment, but anyway wedid because Doug Thomas told me
(19:42):
to the statute of limitationshas run out, but that's okay.
I love Doug Thomas.
I charged her and we were onour way to jail and I asked him
a question.
He was getting tired of me, hewas getting irritable.
Anyway, I asked one too manyquestions.
(20:04):
He looked over at me whiledriving.
He's driving us, remember?
I'm filling out the citation.
I look over at him, ask onelast question.
He says fill out the damnticket and hush.
I don't think it was?
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I don't think it was it was that?
Speaker 4 (20:19):
yes, I was, my feelings were hurt, oh, but I
recovered.
But anyway, I loved littleThomas.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
If he needed a kidney .
Speaker 4 (20:27):
I'd give him one and he'd fuss and gruff about
something while we was layingthere together.
It wouldn't matter, I love him,we're like brothers, your
kidney's going to fit in here.
You're too tall.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
He's a problem.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
He has taught me a lot about just being a man, just
being getting along with peoplelaughing at yourself.
I mean just how to treat people.
You know, doug thomas could gowin for sheriff right now in
rocos county and he's been inlaw county for two decades or
three decades probably now we'vetried to talk him into that so
many times.
He's great man, he's got a goodway with people and I'm not
(21:07):
surprised that he comes toLondon PD and mentors many of
you.
I mean I'm not surprised at allbecause he's just a natural
born leader and you've got todraw to him because he tells
funny stories.
He tells on his self.
He runs around going gah gah.
Humor is a great mental healthfor us as police officers, and
(21:28):
Doug Thomas is the best at it.
I've talked enough.
It's time to cut him loose.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
No, you're doing good , I know Everybody's heard
Doug's little bit of a bow.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
However, we don't know exactly everything.
You started at Rock Castle, soDid you go then from there to
the state police?
Speaker 4 (21:52):
No, sir, I didn't, and this is a story of
resiliency, but I went toLexington Metro and I went
through their academy about 32weeks maybe.
They had a basic and then theyhad an advanced and I went
through their academy and I wason the street for about six
weeks and they called me in andsaid buddy, you ain't gonna make
(22:15):
it with us, no, listen I ain'tlying, you know I hit that
forever, but I ain't got nothingto hide and I didn't know.
I didn't know, I was kind ofshaking, you know, because you
know, basically you get firedfrom a job.
Yeah, I wonder, if I'm cut outto be a police officer, right,
(22:36):
is it meant for me?
You?
know, and I won't get into allthe reasons why.
It don't matter.
I got some good friends that Iwent through the class with and
was with them a few weeks backat a reunion, but but last
semester wasn't for me and Iwasn't for them and uh.
So anyway, I come on back homeand I was kind of shaking.
Doug knew I was shaking.
Doug picked me up and you knowhe reminded me that I, that I
(22:57):
was meant to be a police officerand don't give up on your dream
.
And about three months later Iwas getting yelled at in the
state police academy.
There you go, and that Istarted in 96 and I retired in
2018 with a blessed career.
I done worked the road for 10years richmond post, london post
.
I was fortunate to be abodyguard for governor fletcher
(23:20):
for four years that reminds meof a story.
Speaker 5 (23:24):
Yeah, chicken festival yeah, that's the first
time I met you yeah, that'sright.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
It was when you was on his detail and that's almost
like that was in 2006 he'srunning for re-election, so it
would have been 06 at thechicken festival we're out there
on that and nobody likes thechicken festival parade because
it was it clogged up everything.
You remember that?
Oh yeah, that Saturday ishorrible, it is.
And Fletcher the governor walksthrough and somehow I mean he
(23:55):
legit was picking up babies andkissing them and holding them.
I was like, oh my gosh, he'slegit.
And then he would look overthere and he'd be like, buy me
that over there.
I don't know how much money youspent, I don't know.
Hopefully they didn't pay youback.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Yeah, that's why you get reimbursed for stuff like
that.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
They were just trying .
They were doing their thing andI complained to them.
Yeah, he was doing it, right,he really was.
I had no problem until heturned around and decided to
walk back through and I had tostay on that detail a little
longer with you guys and my wife.
We were having she was pregnant, oh boy, and we were having
pictures done and I missed themfor that detail.
(24:35):
Oh man, oh, I heard about it.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
Oh, I bet she voted to save Bashir that fall Nope.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Oh, she was like I can't help.
The governor went by but yeah,I missed him.
There's my little daughter andher pregnant with my son.
I'm out of it.
I was like, oh, I'm in trouble.
I was supposed to be in here,but it was one of them volunteer
details on that festivalbecause I'd usually work night
(25:07):
shift or second shift on them.
I thought they had everybodyworking it.
They used to, but I was secondshift.
I feel like, on that, you comein at that time.
But I came in for that paradeearly.
I volunteered for it.
I thought it'd be over in likean hour and now it didn't work
out, she'd probably go Photoshopyou back here Election year
(25:31):
it's not going to work out thatway, and that's the first time
because I was impressed by notonly his demeanor with handling
the public and making sure theymoved along, but also how much
cash that guy kept in his wallet.
Well, I was bought.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
The festival when you do you know, when you do that
executive security, you know theshoulder man often is the is is
the money man.
You know you pack some cash forinstances like that, but but
yeah, and then I, you know Ifinished up.
It's kind of funny when you'reon that detail.
You kind of know how you'redoing with your supervision
(26:12):
because based on the assignmentyou get, you know if you're
doing a good job and they likeyou.
You're going on vacation toFlorida with the Fletchers, yeah
, well, whenever the Fletchersgot beat, governor Fletcher
brought us in.
He presented me a nicecertificate, gave us a meal, and
the certificate was Latin forad finum fidelis, which was
(26:33):
Latin for faithful to the end.
It's one of my prizedpossessions, one of my prized
trophies, because I did man.
I love that guy.
Now, glenna, if you hear this,I'm sorry, she's a little
difficult, she's a littledifficult, she's a little
difficult.
Ernie Fletcher was a fine man,it was an honor to work for him.
But anyway, we'd finished upand the Steve Beshear camp was
(26:56):
coming in and they called ameeting and we were going to do
the inauguration.
That's about 18, 24 hours ofnonstop activity.
And so they called a group inDylan and they said all right,
this is the governor's brother.
They had packets, you know, andwe're going to pick them up.
you know, on different things,different little bit about them.
(27:18):
Here's the governor's brother,the governor's son, the
governor's sister, general vanAllen, where you at.
General van driver Allen, whereyou at.
So I was the general van driver, so I knew then that I was
going to be a short-timer on theSteve Beshear administration.
And then I was.
I came back and worked threeyears at the Morning Post and
(27:39):
then from there I went tocannabis.
Yeah, I went to cannabis andcannabis.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
When you went back you worked a little marijuana
that's what a lot of people knowwhat that is.
So I remember me and JasonMcCall was out there working
interdiction and we'd give you abunch of tickets out there a
lot of times well, we did signdetail.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
You know, and I love that sign detail because you get
you know and I love that signdetail because you get you know
that's the one where road checkahead.
You know you bait people to getoff the interstate, thinking
they're avoiding a road check.
And it is based on the biblicalpassage of the wicked flee when
no man pursues.
They're fleeing because, oh,I'm about to get in trouble.
And then you're waiting on themwatching them you know it is
(28:21):
man.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
That's some cool stuff why didn't we ever do
anything like that?
Speaker 3 (28:25):
I got to do that with them guys when I was on that
interdiction team and they werewe'd set up down at the welcome
center.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Yep, we did a truck stop at 59 yep, I would.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I was always that decoy.
I was the decoy.
Yeah, that was out past thesign.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
So they were like you were the general van driver.
I was the general van driver.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
They were waiting through some trash to see what
they were throwing away.
But was you down there withthat guy?
They got like I don't know, twogallons of GHb from a guy yeah
from and I was like I don't evenyou know that's a date rape
(29:10):
drug or something.
I was like gallons of it, yeahthis guy had I was like man, so
they were doing the lord's work,you know, and getting dope off
the, off the street and whoknows how many that protected,
you know, back then money anddrug money.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
Yeah, we got large seizure money down there one
time at the weapon center.
Yeah, you know war.
Then money and drug money.
Yeah, we got a large seizure ofmoney down there one time at
the welcome center.
Yeah.
And you know warrants.
People got warrants on them.
You know big warrants.
You know you're talking murderand rape stuff.
You know they're like oh, I'mabout to get caught, I better, I
better not go through this roadcheck, I better turn off before
I get to this road check.
Yep, we happen to be therewaiting on you oopsie it's funny
(29:44):
, yeah, it's great when you walkup and badge them and be like,
hey, how you doing today.
Yeah.
You can see their face, you can.
It's like ah, and you know I dida lot of knocking talks and I
love that man because there's astudy in it.
And I could walk up and youknow, and you can see a level of
anxiety.
You know, I could walk up andyou know, and you can see a
(30:05):
level of anxiety.
You know, most people aregenerally a little bit afraid of
the police but, boy, when yousee, when you see the heart
beating through the shirt, Ineed to be at this location.
And then you know, and then youcan see it in their neck and
then they start stuttering andthey sweat.
You know, all those areelements of something's going on
here.
We stress.
Speaker 5 (30:26):
We talked about that when we had Joey on and that was
do an interdiction.
That was one of my favoritethings is you?
Start listing off stuff.
Ask them in the car and they'lltell them there's no time.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
It's like I mean well , I found out too that people
that if you was with them or hewas around them and they, they
were overly friendly or theystarted talking a lot.
I said time to look at thisperson.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
There's a little more to your overly kind.
Yeah, are you like that with?
Everybody.
You start narrowing down.
There's some questions, easyquestions you start asking right
off the bat that start thatyou're right or you're wrong.
That was the fun stuff of ourjob.
(31:13):
Oh yeah.
The hunt was fun.
The paperwork after sucks whenyou're a proactive police
officer you're at your best,proactive police officer.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
You're at your best Mm-hmm.
You know I mean, and it's hardto be proactive this day and
time because you're not rewardedfor it like you were when we
were coming up.
You know, most of them nowpolice supervisors are like
don't get anything.
It causes me to have to do morework.
I'm not saying it all that way,yeah, but there's a significant
amount of police officers thatare supervisors, that are like
listen, don't get into nothing.
Their supervisors will be likelisten, don't get into nothing,
(31:43):
don't hit nobody, don't chasenobody.
And we win, the community winswhen the police officer is
proactive, that's how you'relooking.
You're hunting and I know that'snot a popular word in policing
but you're hunting and you'reproductive.
Speaker 5 (31:58):
We talked about that in the city when we were hunting
dope heavily like all thesquads were hunting dope heavily
in the.
We pushed the dope dealers outof the city for the most part
that's right.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
We didn't stop them, yeah, but they weren't in the
city, they were, yeah yeah,they're operating out in the
county you just have to.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
People don't understand.
It's not, it's life or deathand that's all it's what it
boils down to.
Yeah, we have a lot of fun, wetalk, we cut up, but really when
we're out there we're trying tokeep the bad out of your
community, out of your life, outof your front door.
You don't know.
I mean, if people steal fromyou for dope, what else will
(32:37):
they do?
They're desperate people.
So you know, without law,without the police out there,
imagine what?
And then when you handcuff thepolice and make it taboo to
arrest somebody or do something,it puts really a bad spot in
the community you bring inhesitation.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
I think that environment is going to change.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
I hope so.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
I have hopes that it will there's only so long before
there has to be a shift backtowards like hey, we got to get
after more aggressive stylepolicing.
I'm not saying do it wrong, I'mjust saying don't get the bad
guys you're not at their goosestepping everybody really wants
(33:26):
proactive policing.
They do.
They don't want drugs in theirstreet and they don't want bad
things around, so you got to getto it again.
Alright, boys, what else yougot?
Speaker 2 (33:39):
I know y'all got some stories now, yeah, go for it
when you put me on the spot, Iforget all of them, Hood how
long did you spend at the OCJT?
Speaker 4 (33:50):
I was there 18 months and that was one of the finest
jobs I ever one of the mostenjoyable jobs.
You enjoyed it.
I was a mentor, for I think Icounted up to 450 police
officers came through duringthat time.
That's awesome.
What was you?
Teaching I was a coordinator.
Oh, during that time, that'sawesome.
What was you teaching?
I was a coordinator?
Oh, so I was like a daddyfigure to a lot of them.
You know I was the disciplinaryand the motivator Did you get
(34:10):
to toss any rooms all year.
Well, you know DOCJT, they don'tbelieve in that sort of thing.
But I did.
You did, though you believed init and on Fridays I'd send them
home with a little love, we'dmeet and I'd do an inspection
and we'd go out in the hallwayand we'd do TV time.
Yeah, I mean, but you know whatthey still call me?
(34:31):
A lot of them still call me tothis day.
It's awesome, you know, and,man, you can't put a price tag
on that.
That means a lot to me, wasthat not after you retired.
I stayed and retired 11 months,got on at the OCJT, worked there
a year and a half and now I'mat the administrative office of
the court, I think it was.
Speaker 5 (34:50):
I'm a court bailiff.
Were you there when Logan andBen and all that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
Logan was in 507, I believe.
But I was there, I used to give.
I'd walk up to Logan and I knowhis dad was, you know, in
command staff at London.
But I would always I know youboys are pro-London PD and I am
too, but I would always try torecruit for the state police I'd
walk up, I'd get in the rearespecially after Redman, you
(35:20):
know and I'd get in there andI'd say, boy, you look good in
that campaign hat, you know.
But Logan would always pushback on that.
He'd say I'm a lot of PD.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
I think he was loyal.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
Loyal, loyal to their brother, yes, sir, but I mean I
would, and I wouldn't quit, andhe wouldn't quit.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Logan would have made a good one too.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
He, yeah, they were.
They come out I think 507 andyou know, yeah, I enjoy those
fellas.
They're good guys.
But I went to in-service upthere me, and I thought I'm
gonna say it's greg turner.
We was up there at a stress andwellness class when, when that
class was going on, so we walkedover there to eat with them you
know, over quackers or whateverto eat and they just looked at
us.
I was like y'all want to eatwith us.
(36:09):
I said you don't have to.
But we came over here to wecould be a whole lot better
restaurant over here, but we'dlike to just cut up with you and
talk.
And they were like y'allsitting there, all I was like I
guess I was a lieutenant, Idon't know.
I was like I guess I was alieutenant, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
I thought what's wrong with you all.
They just locked up.
And then Logan came in and he'slike smacking me in the back of
the head Like hey.
Speaker 5 (36:31):
Hey dude.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
The other two were like what?
Speaker 5 (36:34):
did I say I think Ben was late.
His first day he was, he waslate to orientation yeah, yeah,
ben was late, checks out, ben.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Ben was a good guy, a good he, just he didn't start
taking it serious till maybejust a little bit later on in
the process.
Yeah, well, and then, you know,and his coordinator was, she
ended up being the supervisor.
May have been at that time, Iguess, but she was about five
one, five two and uh, but yeah,he was.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Yeah, ben, I remember that smile, you know, he just
infectious smile he's a goodgood old boy, you can't help how
I like being Ben if you listento me, I love you.
Speaker 4 (37:17):
I miss you hope you do.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Well, I'd love to.
We're not having any.
We're sticking to retired folksfor the most part right now, so
we'll eventually we'll see whatthey do, but because I don't
want to put them in a spot yeah,I accidentally say something
about something that's going onand then, well, you know to your
point we're talking about gothe ocj.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
I'm of the opinion that I'm old school, you know, I
think we all are.
But when you're in the academyand there's a push nationally to
take away the stress in apolice academy and I'm
completely against that yeah, uh, you know, like florida florida
tends to have, they tend tojust send a bunch to go through
(37:57):
a bunch of college courses andthen, once you get your certain
criteria met, then you can applyand be a police officer and and
then you just, you know, go gothrough a collegiate like
training academy, and there's nostress, there's no yelling,
there's no intense PT.
I'm of the opinion and DOCJTwas transitioning when I was
leaving, but they wanted todocument everything, like they
(38:19):
wanted to write people up forinsubordination.
And I'm of the opinion no,let's make them do 50 push-ups,
smoke them and let's go and thensmoke them and we move on.
Yeah, because when I write youup for insubordination week 12
of the academy and you get in ashooting two years later, the
defense attorney is going tocome up with a problem from the
start.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
Exactly, and I just I was against that.
I preached against it manytimes as I was there.
I don't want a paper trail.
No, you know, know, we all makemistakes in the academy.
You're under stress.
That's what you're going to do.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Let me smoke you, let me grass drill you and we move
on and I shake your hand andI'll tell everybody, what, what
a wonderful cadet recruit mewherever a cadet and recruit is
a much different person, yeah,than a five-year officer that's
been on Absolutely.
And if something happened inthe academy, that doesn't really
(39:13):
reflect who that officer becameand turned into.
Well, unless that was a need torid that person and get them on
out of the academy, I get that.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
And that's a great point, t-dot, because because,
look, I've had mothers ask mewhy are they so hard on them,
boys up there?
Well, I'm going to tell you why.
I got to know that when yougraduate you have at least met
the minimum standard.
That minimum standard is highstress, and that minimum
standard is three years whenyou've been on and it's four
(39:46):
o'clock and you were due to getoff at four o'clock but there's
a mess in front of you, like afatality.
I've got to know you're goingto stick it to the end.
You're going to stay thereuntil the road's cleaned up and
you can move on.
There's a certain thing that weidentify in the academy.
The person's going to stick toit because if you ain't willing
to get yelled at and not, thenlikely you probably won't stand
(40:10):
there and be willing to guard acrime scene all that long.
You likely won't stay there forfatality all that long.
So there's some.
You know, I get it, I get that.
We I think the state policethis time started out like 90
and they're down to 29.
Yeah, I get it, man People, Iunderstand both sides of it.
But, having speaking from theDOCJT perspective, there needs
(40:32):
to be some degree of a littlebit of stress in an academy.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Yeah, and you can only put some A happy medium.
Academically there was a lot ofstress.
They put that stress but reallythe physical side of that red
man fight, that pepper spray inthe driving training, the things
that all of a sudden I'll tellyou what stressed me the most.
And I failed the nystagmus testand DUI and I was like I'm out,
(41:05):
I'm going to fail.
I put unnecessary pressure onmyself after that but that's who
became the best at doing allthe DUI detection Felt sobriety
Because I was not going to fail.
I put extra work into that andthen when I got out of the camp
I knew it pretty good and feltvery confident in my ability at
(41:29):
that.
Where I might not have just ifI'd have passed the first time,
where they'd have been like youwere close, we'll just let you
go, yeah, instead of saying youfailed, you were close but
you've got to redo it.
Yeah, that made me a betterteacher.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
Failure is a good teacher.
It is there's.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
there's nothing very good and then he's talking about
, you know, failing and havingconfidence.
I was in the Academy andaccident investigation because
I'd worked the road about threeyears or four before I ever went
to the Academy mm-hmm so itcome up the accident no problem?
(42:04):
No problem.
Didn't pay a bit attention tothat class for nothing.
Just set sat there and twiddledmy thumbs.
Test time, looked at me.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Never heard of that before Next thing.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
You know, I go look at the score.
Of course they don't tell youwhat, you just have to go look
at your ID and see what yourscore was.
So I looked up at the wall Fail.
I said uh-oh.
I said uh-oh.
I said I guess I knew as muchas I thought I did.
I went to the coordinator andsaid hey.
He said you can take it again.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
It's funny how there's fear as a motivator.
Yes, the best I did in theacademy I was getting ready to
get deployed again to go to Iraqor somewhere.
I was 2003 and got pulled outof the class for a couple of
(42:59):
times.
And I'll tell you thiscoordinators have a way to make
and break you.
Sometimes my coordinatorreassured me that, hey,
everything's gonna be okay,you'll.
You'll have a spot here, don'tworry, go do your thing.
Military, they hold your spot,they, your agency's not gonna
fire you took that stress off ofme.
So when I and then he said ifsomething happens, call me and
(43:22):
we'll get you back in this classright quick, or you'll be in
the class behind, no matter what.
So just came, you know, it'slike two days.
So I met that right there.
Boy, the homework they gave us,though it was ridiculous oh my
god, best ever did, though I wasscared into like I gotta
there's other things.
I'm still in the guard, I'mcould do this.
(43:43):
And I was like man, I locked inand knocked out that.
That rest of that academy wasno joke for me and there's only
a couple.
I was in like the last phasebut best test score, I had the
best pt time I had.
You know, all that stuff justkind of was like.
I was just like motivated, likeyeah, and it was fear that
drove that yeah it was crazy soyeah fear fingers of motivator.
Speaker 5 (44:08):
You mentioned Redman.
After you saw, redman is whenyou start trying to recruit and
I can agree with that, becauseRedman was kind of the.
That was the thing that you'regoing to make it, you'll be all
right.
Because, there was several inour class that we was watching.
We were standing up on the topwatching them as they was going.
Speaker 4 (44:27):
He ain't going to make it, they ain't you it, they
ain't you know yeah just toosoft I mean it's, it's
definitely, uh, it's definitelyan occupation where you can't be
bashful.
No, like when they would showup on sundays.
I would get in their face and Iwould say tell me I'm under
arrest now.
That sounds kind of silly, butthat's really the first.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
You know, that's the con that's where the conflict
starts, you know when you tellsomebody you're under arrest.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
I'm getting ready to take your rights and your
freedom away.
That's where the conflictbegins.
So if you're making mild andbashful, well sir, you're going
to have to go to jail.
So I immediately start on them.
Speaker 5 (45:04):
I like that.
I do too.
It's a switch that you've gotto flip and if you can't flip
that switch, then you're notgoing to do.
Speaker 4 (45:14):
Well, I want to be, and I'm old now and I'm
irrelevant, but I always try tobe a dangerous gentleman.
I've heard people say man, wenever thought you'd be a trooper
, you were just so nice, toonice.
Listen, that's okay.
I want to be nice, I want to bea gentleman, I want to be
cordial and friendly and buddyand hug you.
(45:35):
You mentioned hug man, I'm ahugger and I hug tight.
But listen, I've had to flipthat switch and I'm okay with
that too yeah, you know for sure, I would.
Speaker 5 (45:48):
I've always said I would rather talk my way out of
a fight but I want you to knowthat if we're going into a fight
you're not going to enjoy it.
Be a dangerous gentleman.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
You've got to be a good communicator in this you've
got to man, because I would youknow, like you said, when
you're under arrest, there'sways about saying that to people
you can really be a dick aboutit.
You can, or you'll say where wewere from Rock Castle.
We knew about everybody in thecountry.
(46:18):
I mean, it was just that typeof community.
You knew everybody, mostly Eventhe thugs.
You went to school with them orsomewhere down the line.
You knew them somewhere.
And then you're saying, listen,old man, yeah, this is the way
it's got to be.
I'm sorry, but I'm going totake it too.
I said it's nothing personal.
Yeah, but you know, got to do ajob here Most of the time.
(46:40):
I mean, if you communicate withthem, they're going to be all
right.
There's an old guy up there.
I guess he's dead now, butChester McFerrin I've never
heard of him.
Speaker 4 (46:51):
Yeah, I remember Chester, he liked it, he liked
the weather.
The weather was pretty good hedid, and he liked to fight.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
He didn't care who it was, and some people could go
and arrest him and not have aproblem.
There's two or three that couldgo to arrest him.
It was, it was over and thefight was on.
It didn't matter.
But the same way with the big,the big David.
(47:16):
What was his name?
Oh, david Rowe.
I was thinking him when you wastalking about Chester.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
David Rowe would fight every time.
Yes.
Speaker 4 (47:24):
You couldn't talk him into the back seat.
No, but I mean, you know, as apolice officer you got to that's
.
I guess that's where couragecomes in, you know.
And police don't get enoughcredit for being courageous.
No, you know, I mean no offensemilitary veterans.
I love them, man.
I wear a flag on my hat mostevery day of the week because of
(47:47):
what veterans have done.
But I don't think police getenough credit for being
courageous.
When I drive through the badpart of town, or I drive through
that bad holler, or by myselfwith no backup close, it would
be awful easy for me to go downto PD and talk about what a bad
dude I am.
But when you're in the car byyourself cruising through these
(48:07):
neighborhoods, when you're onyour way to that hot call active
shooter and we've all workedwith those guys that get car
trouble when a hot call comesout, I mean you know we have,
but you have to make yourselfovercome that fear and push
forward and address what's infront of you, and that's a good
(48:29):
point is that it's not thatyou're not afraid.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Anybody that gets out there and says that you're not
afraid, you've got to have thatfear.
That's what keeps you alert andkeeps you on your toes.
Speaker 5 (48:40):
But it's the fact that you're going.
Speaker 4 (48:42):
I'm going to throw a little Stonewall Jackson at you.
You ever heard this?
No, I don't know you, jackson,that you ever heard this?
No, no, you know.
Stonewall jackson, southern.
Now we can't hardly talk aboutsouthern generals anymore
because they'll say I'm a racist.
But this is profound.
What this man said thomasjonathan stonewall jackson
doug's laughing at me was afterthe battle of manassas started
(49:03):
to get a reputation of being ageneral that was oblivious to
danger.
He would walk out in the middleof gunfire to direct his people
.
And a newspaper reporter askedhim this is in a book, gods and
generals.
A newspaper reporter asked himsaid general, how is it that you
just, you just don't seem to beafraid?
And he told him you know, I'mafraid, but he said this.
(49:23):
This is the profound.
We're sitting in a church.
So he said my, my religionteaches me to be as comfortable
in battle as I am in bed.
I do not concern myself withthe time of my death, but always
be ready.
He goes on to say that it's theway all men should live and all
would be equally brave man, wedon't have enough.
(49:46):
We don't have enough stone wallsno we don't.
We're alpha males, we're notafraid of conflict, but our
culture does not reward and doesnot encourage and even often
even develop alpha strongpersonalities that will address
conflict.
Speaker 3 (50:06):
Alpha is tried to be, the Alphas are tried to take
away.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
They've tried to push them away.
You're taking away masculinity.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
That's what they say, if I get into politics, I'll
get upset.
I think we're getting a blockbed, or maybe people coming
around to the reality.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (50:30):
We were wrong here.
Yes, men have to be men,exactly, and that don't mean
everybody needs to be an alpha,but the alpha has to be around.
Yep, there has to be alphas andthere has to be betas.
I mean honestly in life, andthere's nothing wrong with that,
be betas.
(50:50):
I mean honestly in life, andthere's nothing wrong with that.
When you're in a, when you'rein a field where you have a lot
of alphas, it, uh, there'sconflict.
That happens in, within, ohyeah, within our own ranks.
Yeah, a lot of times, thecompetitiveness of a promotion
is craziest thing I've ever seenhow mad we get each other for,
for couple of extra dollars, awhole lot more bull crap.
You know what I'm saying?
(51:12):
Yeah, that's true, but it's okay.
It is.
It's okay because we end upback around.
I didn't mean that, whatever,but it's just tough.
It's a tough line of work thatwe do to be an alpha, in my
opinion.
When you're trying to teachyour son what it means to be a
(51:32):
man, that pride and that stuffyou want to come out and you
don't back down Sometimes.
But I've learned sometimes it'sbetter to back away, retreat a
little bit, take a betterstronghold on this and let's
regroup.
Speaker 5 (51:48):
You've got to survey your situation a little bit
before you can always react.
Speaker 3 (51:53):
A lot of times we hard charge when maybe we should
have flanked them sometimes.
That doesn't mean we never.
You know, retreating is not anoption a lot of times in online
work.
But sometimes we can get abetter position by backing up
and thinking like here's what weneed to be and here's what we
need to do, and maybe wait,maybe talk, maybe take a
(52:15):
different approach and ondifferent things.
I'm talking about life ingeneral, but in policing there's
been so many times you learnthis over the years like I don't
have to rush, this is calledexactly.
Speaker 5 (52:25):
Yeah, you're not.
On.
Time is my time is.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
Time is my friend a lot of times.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
When I first started I was your gung-ho.
Hey, man, I've got to get there.
I've got to get there right now.
Quit first Got to be first onethere, oh 660,.
He'd tell me, don't do that.
He said it's going to be therewhen you get there.
It's not going anywhere.
Speaker 5 (52:53):
So I kind of said he's right, and you put stress
on yourself by doing that now,we would always try and beat
each other to the cause becausewe wanted to be the one that
ended up getting foot pursued orget the first one we were
trying to be like, but we hadthe luxury of several officers
coming.
Yeah, we knew that.
You know you're first on scene.
(53:14):
You got somebody two minutesbehind you anyway.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
But for me as a supervisor, I wanted you to
answer the call.
I mean, I didn't want you to,just I mean Get there in a
timely manner.
Speaker 3 (53:27):
There's a fine line.
Do it in a timely manner, afine line.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (53:30):
You know he's talking about Jimmy there and Jimmy
taught both Doug and I this andI know you've worked with these
guys that love getting on theradio and tell every move
they're going to make, everymove they've done.
Jimmy always said and I'vetaught in each of my FTOs and
even I mention this to myclasses if you sound like a fool
(53:50):
on the radio, you will beperceived a fool.
Jimmy used to say when it'shappening and you hear it
developing, just head.
That way you don't have to tellnobody when you get there, say
I'm 97.
I'm on my way, but I justcleared so-and-so and I'm a 15
(54:13):
minutes away.
No sense for all that, no, justgo.
You know, and that's the onething about Jimmy he was that he
was kind of like I don't know,he just, I just always had that
assurance that he was close,even when I knew he wouldn't.
I just, and you never knew it,you never knew it, just like it
happened to me many times yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:24):
I'll be on a call or something.
It'd'd be pretty serious, man,of course, with us.
I mean, if you went to adomestic you used to buy
yourself most of the time yeah,you didn't have two or three or
what, but I'd roll up and if youmissed Jimmy Simmons you'd be
pulling.
You never even knew he wasaround.
Speaker 4 (54:41):
Yep, but that's you know.
Yeah, he was coming, he wasthat silent overwatch.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
I loved him today.
Speaker 4 (54:49):
I miss him so much I do too.
Speaker 2 (54:51):
He was a great guy, he was quare.
Speaker 4 (54:53):
He was quare and he was hateful.
I swear Doug's got a littlequare and hateful streak in him.
Speaker 3 (55:01):
He came from a lot.
He came from him.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
He did, it rubbed off on me.
Those guys were instrumental inmy life.
Speaker 4 (55:09):
And then you talk about Tony Terry.
Tony's the chief deputy therein Madison County.
Tony was I was the last guythat he trained before he
started.
He ended up retiring as a majorand him and Britt Roper Roper
worked London Post for a whilebut those guys, they took me
under their wing.
I often say they made me metroopers.
(55:29):
But this guy sitting in frontof me and tim fee over in
jackson county, they made mepolice officer.
But you know, I mean, and soyeah, and jimmy, jimmy of course
I've had, you couldn't beat him.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
He's just, he's just outstanding in every way yeah,
yeah, I mean, you know he was.
I mean, he was a true trooper,he was.
There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 4 (55:51):
He was Steve.
Walker was his sergeant.
No offense, steve, but it iswhat it is.
Steve was his sergeant andSteve wanted to change his
schedule.
Steve was going to make himwork a day shift.
That was taboo to Jimmy Silverit sure was.
Oh no, he was 18 to 02 or not,or 20 to 04.
He'd do that.
(56:12):
He was working the night thatthe old boy got in at post with
a hatchet and started beatingthe place up.
Connie was dispatching.
Connie called Jimmy for help.
Jimmy said it's a good thingthat fellow was gone before I
got there.
Speaker 5 (56:26):
He wouldn't have been doing that, no more.
Speaker 4 (56:30):
Anyway to the point that silent overwatch.
I'm watching out for my people.
He knew I didn't have notraining.
He knew I was green as could be, but he let me go off by myself
and take those calls.
But he was there.
He was listening in.
Speaker 3 (56:48):
But yeah, those that stand and watch, that have your
back.
There's nothing like it.
They'll let you learn, butthey're reassuring you that
you're right.
And laughter if you've donesomething wrong.
He probably pulled you asideand said hey, maybe we'll change
this up a little bit, because.
Speaker 5 (57:06):
I've had that, I've had those mentors.
Speaker 3 (57:08):
And it's cool that I get to sit here with Doug, who I
mean, I wasn't even pleasedwhen I first met Doug and for
him to mentor me as well throughmy early.
You know, even when I startedthe PD he was still at the
sheriff's office, but that's theguy I looked up to and then you
know getting to watch himfinally retire out he was
(57:30):
blowing a lot of smoke.
I'm telling you, there was arespect.
I know I appreciate it.
You weren't honored, but stillit was fun to work with you.
I miss it.
I miss that time.
That was the time that was themost fun for me, especially
night shift with doug and jesseand tc and all them guys.
(57:52):
We had gary profit, we had thetime of our lives.
Speaker 2 (57:57):
That was that was, to me, was the time well, there's
no finer bunch it was fun I meanit was, it was a lot, and the
camaraderie we had with eachother like that's not, not like
it used to be it's uncommon noand I will say this and you all
had a group like that too, dylan, that you all got well, and
(58:17):
that was the thing is like wehad.
Speaker 5 (58:19):
So the group that we went in under that trained us.
The camaraderie that we hadwith them was good, and then our
camaraderie togethersubsequently was good, but then
something happened with thegeneration after, and then admin
changes and things.
Speaker 1 (58:35):
It just wasn't there was a trust that was broken
there somewhere somehow, and itjust wasn't the same anymore but
now all those guys I still havepretty good communication with
yeah, I don't but I don't knowdifferent, know what?
Speaker 3 (58:48):
you remember at Sarge's can?
Speaker 5 (58:49):
I don't know what happened that changed it?
Speaker 3 (58:51):
well, you remember the Sarge's came to them talking
about, you know, learninggeneration yes, different
generations, yes, hardest thingyou can do because I am a Gen X
guy you're more closer to theboom generation yeah, there's
(59:15):
just a couple and we Latchkeykid is a little different, a lot
different than Gen Xers or GenZ Millennials you're a
millennial.
Speaker 5 (59:29):
I think Unfortunately .
Speaker 3 (59:32):
One of the best classes I had in that academy,
or in that sergeant's academy,was that class, because I was
like, oh my gosh, I've failed somany times with younger
officers, even though at thetime I'm in the 30s, mid-30s.
I'm like I have screwed up theway way I talked to these guys.
Speaker 2 (59:52):
They don't care how the way you placed in 1984,
whatever it was.
Speaker 5 (59:57):
No, I mean, we always like to hear the stories but
it's like well, that was cool,but we'll never get to do
anything like that, no, I mean Ido.
Speaker 4 (01:00:07):
I mean I hate it.
Ben's a trooper and he tells mesome stuff he has to put up
with and I grit my teeth andit's just a different time.
And it bothers me when I hearof police officers that the feds
are looking at them, they usetoo much force, or I feel very
(01:00:29):
hypocritical because I too, ifsuch what's that saying?
Except for the grace of Godthere go I.
I maintain humility with that,because I know that there
there's some stuff I probablyshould have been indicted for.
That's what I mean.
Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
I'm just going to tell you you know, I don't think
anybody said here, I meanhonestly.
Speaker 4 (01:00:47):
I probably crossed the line at time to to DDOT but,
there's a little bit.
I like to think I representedthe people well and I didn't
just dish it out for peoplebecause I didn't like them.
Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
They did something to get what was coming down you
got to operate in a grade, justa little people don't understand
.
Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
They don't understand it at all, don't understand it
no, sir, but it has to.
Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
There has to be fear of the police.
Speaker 4 (01:01:09):
There has to be a fear that when TDOT calls for
help, and I'm coming to save himor help him, the dude that's
inflicting the pain on TDOT orDoug or whoever, or Dylan, they
have to know that when Footegets here he's going to hurt you
and if we eliminate that, if wetry to erase that, then it
makes it hard to have asuccessful culture of freedom.
Speaker 5 (01:01:32):
Well, if there's no consequences, then what's the
problem?
Speaker 4 (01:01:36):
That's right.
I mean there has to be arespectful fear of the police.
Speaker 5 (01:01:40):
And it used to be I mean some of your older
criminals.
There was a mutual respectbetween it.
Speaker 4 (01:01:51):
If I run, I know that there's going to be a brief
struggle at the end.
Yeah, I mean it's.
You know that most of them willlaugh yeah or they thought,
well, we had to test you.
Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
Buddy, I didn't know you.
You know it's stupid, it'sdifferent man, it's just.
I remember we was talking,y'all talking about fear of um,
you know, heading to a call orsomething.
I remember some of the callswe've gotten and one of the
scariest ones I went to was like, right kind of at the end of my
career, we had a SWATing callwhere they call in shooting at a
(01:02:22):
school, at an elementary schoolhere, and I remember I was on
the phone with gals orderinguniforms for the pd and I said
I've got to go and she said Iheard that call go, be careful
and call me back.
You know, gals, the, the uniformcompany, thought be careful and
call me back and tell me you'resafe, you know they were scared
(01:02:44):
yeah and here we go, runningout the door and the first one's
in these things, and I rememberthat it was a short trip.
I was at the PD driving toLondon Elementary that's what a
half mile.
Yeah, I was scared to death, ohyeah, and I was the first one
to hit that door and I rememberthat.
Speaker 5 (01:03:05):
I remember that An active school shooter is
something that's like thenuclear of policing.
Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
Luckily, it was just a swan.
Our guys figured out Somegoober hacked one of the cameras
.
It was scary, don't get me wrongthe seriousness of everybody
coming in there, guns drawn, andclearing that place, with
babies in that place, and I hada niece and nephew there, so
(01:03:33):
ultimately I was ramped up evenmore.
But there is nothing.
I remember thinking to myselfjust breathe.
That's the first thing you cando is just breathe, get a hold
of your emotions and checkyourself and go do your job.
And my job wasn't to be asupervisor at that point.
My job right then was to be ahunter, exactly.
(01:03:57):
And as I wear those bathroomsand me and Chris Edwards busting
it, guys I hadn't policed within years were the first ones
through that door where there'sour bathrooms, and me and Chris
Edwards busting it you know,guys I've had in police within
years were the first one throughthat door is the sheriff's the
chiefs and admin.
Yeah, first ones there, andwe're the ones clearing that
together and there was norivalry of where the county and
(01:04:18):
you know all the differences,all the pain.
It doesn't matter we were aboutthat, but I remember that
calming my nerves for that nowafter after you figure it out,
you're like oh my gosh, you knowyou're sitting back, you
debrief that stuff, you talkingto your guys after the calls
over and you're like y'all good,yeah, okay, all right, let's go
(01:04:39):
get something to drink somemedical marijuana here, or I
don't know.
Speaker 5 (01:04:45):
Chill out Kudos to whoever ended up doing the
investigation on that, becausethey tracked that goober down.
Speaker 4 (01:04:50):
That's Lee.
Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Was it Lee?
Speaker 5 (01:04:51):
He tracked that goober down and found his IP
address and it's like New Jerseyor somebody it was cool.
Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
We've had that fear, though.
You can either operate in it oryou get out of the way.
Yeah, and that's okay too.
Speaker 4 (01:05:08):
If you can't hack it sometimes, well, let somebody
else deal, cjt you know what'sthe tactics part of training and
jason mack does a great job.
He's over that now.
He's, he's a, he's a dude, he'sjust a good guy.
Man, just yeah, he's got andhe's got the, the file to back
it up.
But man, but he uh, I'veliterally seen recruits getting
(01:05:29):
not not happen often, but I'veseen it happen getting the fetal
position and that's why we gotto know what you're made of
before we send you out and uh,and you know, because you can't.
That ain't the time to yourpoint.
You can't get in the fetalposition well, that was yeah
when we would have new guys,yeah, and that's in a training.
Yeah, situation, a controlledsituation where you've been
introduced to some fear andanxiety.
(01:05:50):
You're getting some sim rounds.
Sim rounds operate about 400feet per second.
They'll leave a mark.
They hurt, they hurt.
But you know, if you're goingto do that, the sim round is
probably you need to go be alibrarian.
Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
Yeah this is not your .
Speaker 4 (01:06:04):
This is not your occupation.
I agree so, but I, you know, Idon't know, I keep going back to
train stuff.
But but no, I mean, I lovepolice officers, man, I love.
I've got countless shirts aboutthe blue line and you know, I
just I love police, I know whatthey deal with and with.
My heart goes out to them.
He used to talk about man to go.
(01:06:26):
I'd arrest the guy.
I won't say his name, he's outof jail now.
Me and him have since resolvedour differences.
But I'd arrest him on aSaturday and he had swallowed
some meth.
This was back when meth firststarted was homemade.
Matter of fact, we did a searchon his house.
(01:06:48):
The DEA from Lexington was sointerested.
They came down and took overthe case.
They did a search on his houseand they found an actual recipe
to make it.
Speaker 5 (01:06:56):
Was he doing red P-Lab?
Speaker 4 (01:06:58):
Yeah, and it was a big.
I'd never seen it.
It was on the side of the roadand it was a big old, gooey
brown in wax paper and he hadthree, see, I would have thought
that was like tar, heroin orsomething like that.
Yeah, I would have said that too.
But he had three balls and heate one of them.
I charged him with.
You know he had a substantialamount, but he ate one.
(01:07:19):
Well, that made him wild and hewas literally in my back seat
spinning around Guy in the jail.
He wanted to fight.
It Took about six or eight ofus to wrestle him down, get him
in jail.
But at that time when you chargesomebody with a felony, I had
to fingerprint and photographthe arrest and I told the
jailers I said, look, I'll comeback tomorrow and I'll just I'll
(01:07:40):
do this, I'm not going to do itnow.
He's too wild.
So I came back the next dayabout lunch and he was in the
holding cell and they broughthim out and set him in there and
I just, he was fine, he didn'tsay much, he's really quiet, and
uh, I fingerprinted him andthen I got ready to photograph
him.
You know you had to hold thatsheet under your chin and uh, I
(01:08:02):
just I don't know what I said.
I don't think I really saidanything.
I maybe he didn't like mymannerisms, I don't really know.
Maybe maybe he didn't like that.
He was submitting to my request.
But he looked at me and he saidit's all right, alan, I'll get
out of jail.
I know where you live and whenI get out of jail I'm gonna burn
your house and then I'm goingto blank your wife.
(01:08:23):
Listen, I'm a God-fearing manand I try to be a good guy.
But you tell me thatterroristic threatening fits
that.
No, me and him had aconversation and I violated his
rights that day and I'm notbragging about that.
But there's a line and youcross it.
There has to be consequences.
(01:08:43):
You said it a while ago, have?
There has to be consequences.
You said it a while ago.
There has to be consequences.
And terroristic threatening getamended down to jaywalking.
Ain't the fix?
No, it ain't.
It ain't going to teach him alesson so he learns not to do
that again now.
Anyway, he, me and him had aconversation.
We made up since then.
But now you know there's somethings you don't say and I'm
gonna call you out on if you sayit.
(01:09:05):
I know this person is.
Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
So that reminds me of a little incident it happened
in Livingston no, no footnoteswere talking about here, but
anyway, this guy was we go man.
A trooper was down there, stevelong, and I wished he could be
here.
I other two yeah he'd beawesome, he'd be awesome to have
and, but we were okay.
(01:09:31):
We were at the homecomingLivingston homecoming foot knows
what it is and we're down thereat the corner where the
elementary school used to be.
It's a community center orsomething now, right there next
to the pool hall or whatever itwas.
But they said there's a guygiving a stirpence up up the
(01:09:53):
street here raising all kinds ofcane, whatnot.
So me and Steve we ease upthere.
It's this guy Foote's talkingabout.
Got no shirt, got a pair offlip-flops on and a pair of
jogging shorts.
So we tell him what's going on,we place him under arrest
(01:10:14):
anyway.
So we get him down to the carand he's a big old boy.
He's a big old boy.
And so we're trying to get himin the car.
He's struggling a little bit,fussing, cussing, carrying on,
and well we finally get him inthere with his foot hanging out
the door.
Well, shirley was there.
Speaker 6 (01:10:34):
He said yeah, he's in the car.
He was at the pop?
Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
Yeah, he was, but anyway he's a slam in the door.
Surely he is.
This guy's going.
Wow, I mean he's screaming likea panther or something I go.
What in the world.
And every time Shirley slamsthat door, he's slamming it
against his foot, against theframe of the car.
(01:10:59):
No, it's not, he didn't breakhis foot.
He finally got his foot inthere.
It's in Steve's car, by the way.
This is something that needs tobe stressed, Very, very
seriously stressed.
No matter if they're naked,always search a person.
(01:11:22):
Yes, always.
I don't care.
So we get this guy to the jail,open the door, get him out.
A big Budweiser bottle of beerfalls on the blacktop.
He's in a prayer jogging shorts.
Now Bam Hits the source.
(01:11:44):
Now bam hits the floor or hitsthe ground and buzz.
I said what?
That ain't right.
But we move him around a littlebit.
Move him again.
Pistol hits the ground.
And we had him handcuffedbehind his back.
But that don't matter, thatdon't matter, that don't matter.
(01:12:04):
You talk about taking.
You know, oh my god, what couldhave happened here, walking
down the steps at that time theydidn't have a sally porter, but
you had to go down a set ofsteps inside the jail.
Get him down to the steps.
(01:12:25):
Another bottle of beer fallsout of the shot Dang.
Two bottles of beer and apistol.
This was a 45 too, wasn't it?
It was a big.
No, it wasn't a 45.
I don't remember it wasn't.
It was a.
It was a gun, it was automatic,but it wasn't.
I thought it was a 45 it couldhave been.
I don't remember the big, largeframe semi-auto, but you know me
(01:12:46):
and Steve looks at me and saysyou know this, this serious, and
I would any place officer thatlistens to this.
I'm telling you if they'renaked, yeah don't have nothing
on search well.
Speaker 5 (01:12:59):
I can attest to that.
We had a call at the hospital.
Speaker 6 (01:13:01):
That's scary, it is we had a call at the hospital.
That's scary.
It is scary.
Speaker 5 (01:13:04):
We had a call at the hospital.
It was a 202.
Yeah.
And she had been wanderingaround and had left the hospital
AMA'd or whatever.
They didn't have any holdpaperwork on her, so it was one
of those.
You know, we always fought withthe hospital over that.
Yeah.
So I go and said, all right,I'll just go give her a ride
wherever she wants to go.
Well, what they didn't tell meshe'd been wandering around the
(01:13:26):
parking lot breaking intopeople's cars.
So I go and I take her, youknow, give her the pat down, get
in the back of the car.
You know, she's 202.
She's not under arrest, notunder custody, she's just 10, 12
on her to go back to her house.
So I take her.
Well, I get a call back to thehospital.
(01:13:46):
Two hours later she had brokeinto somebody's car and stolen a
380 out of their car and haveit shove up in her yeah and
didn't find out till.
Yeah, didn't find out till laterwow, so her sitting there not
cuffed nothing yeah could havebeen.
I mean in her crazies alone.
Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
Yeah wow, so it's very.
It's a lot of there's a lot.
Speaker 5 (01:14:09):
You said it by the grace of god.
Speaker 4 (01:14:10):
A lot of near misses, you know we've all had those
and pursuits and wrecks and, ohyeah, walked away from it.
But I mean, lord of statepolice, it got.
Listen, no lie, I've been onabout a year.
I wrecked the car in climaximax, kentucky.
I remember it well.
Yeah, I overturned.
I was chasing the beer canbefore he told me we'll steal
his thunder.
I was.
I found a spinning beer can inthe road and I thought, hmm,
(01:14:34):
there's a DUI around heresomewhere.
So I accelerated.
Well, I got a little too hotaround the curve, ended up
upside down in climax.
Speaker 3 (01:14:42):
That's what you want to be A lot of times.
Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
that's a good day that sounds like a good day, I
say you'll have to delete thatpart, dylan.
Speaker 4 (01:14:59):
But anyway, that's a good time, we've had a good
laugh.
But sorry, lord, to be so closeto your sanctuary.
But anyway, that was one car.
Well, about two months later Istill had the pool car because
we didn't have a lot of it, andI turned on a guy on a
motorcycle who was wanted forquestioning a robbery and I tore
the rear end out of that one.
(01:15:21):
Well, that very same day I go toJoey Peters' house to finish
out my shift.
He's got a brand-new 1993 Ford,I'm sorry, a brand-new 1996
Ford.
Beautiful car, beautiful car.
I said Joey, I've got to borrowyour car to get through my
shift.
And he looked at me, fearinghis eyes.
(01:15:42):
I had that reputation P-Doc,don't let foot have your car.
He started shaking and said no.
I said Joey, I got to.
Sergeant said I got to finishup my shift.
It's like I'm due about two inthe morning and like it's like
730.
And I just tore the rear endout of the one.
The wreckage just drove off init.
There's no other pool cars atpost.
(01:16:02):
So he reluctantly gave me hiskeys.
Well, that night I was on my wayhome and did I mention it was a
brand new 1996?
Ford Crown Vic.
I mean, it had the best ofeverything.
And I got a call of a domesticin Anvil.
I was at Big Hill and this14-year-old kid had, as I was
(01:16:24):
responding, uh, had hadsupposedly whipped his dad.
He, dad, he whipped his dad.
Good, you said dad had a bigpump down his head and he
threatened to kill his mom andwe were told he was armed.
But when I get there, steveBryant, dear friend of mine,
deputy up in Jackson County atthat time, steve was trying to
negotiate with him but hewouldn't have none of it and he
started shooting the cars.
(01:16:46):
Well, that was the third car inline.
Yeah, you know you hate to killa 14-year-old kid.
You want to give him everychance in the world.
Oh, yeah, but, son of honey, hedone some damage before we got
him corralled up.
But yeah, he shot up that brandnew.
Did I mention a brand new?
Yeah, he shot up that brand newcar.
(01:17:07):
Did I mention a brand new car?
I mean, listen, nobody wantedto give me a car and it was a
long time before I got a new car.
Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
I was hard on.
Speaker 4 (01:17:14):
KSP vehicles yeah, but yeah, that reminds me, there
wasn't too many straight roadsup there, no, jackson Gale
County.
Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
I was riding with Flo one night man.
I was off or something.
Speaker 4 (01:17:26):
Oh, I remember this Gosh.
What am I holding up here?
Speaker 2 (01:17:32):
We get a call I don't remember what it was anyway.
Oh yeah, maybe somebody tryingto break into a store or
something.
I don't remember exactly whatit was.
We was on 421 though.
We arrested this guy for DUI,that's what it was.
We was heading to the jail.
Then they give that back.
(01:17:52):
We give that call and theybreak an entire grocery.
We're right here out swingingaround there to see if I can
catch them.
We walked a mile away orsomething.
We was on 30 going towardBumble, turned around.
Speaker 4 (01:18:09):
sure enough, we'll get after this vehicle and we're
in pursuit 10-15 in the backseat let me add to this two
weeks before that, ksp had comeout with a new pursuit policy
and it said you shall.
You know what shall is?
Mr former police chief youshall not pursue with the
(01:18:31):
defendant in custody.
Yeah, go ahead tell your story.
Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
Put broke that right then.
So we're chasing this guy overthe place and we get into a hill
down into a cow field orsomewhere we don't know where
we're at.
That's the 10-15 where we're at.
Speaker 5 (01:18:47):
I said are we in Jackson or Avila?
Speaker 2 (01:18:50):
Yeah, this vehicle drives through a little.
We go as far as we can go inthe cruiser, no further we can
go.
He whips in there and footjumps out of the car.
I'm sitting there, I can't getout because I'm right up against
the bank like that.
You can't even open the doorand the 10-15,.
(01:19:11):
We're just sitting back therehaving a casual conversation.
Well, I don't know how he'sdoing out there.
I guess he's all right.
Finally, foot comes walkingback in, gets in the car, I in
the car where they went.
But anyway we had to ask thatguy.
He said do you know where we'reat?
Speaker 4 (01:19:28):
I had to tell the director to come get me.
I was stuck, couldn't get out,so he's able to tell us, so I
might have negotiated a littlereduction of sentencing for him.
Speaker 3 (01:19:40):
He wasn't a prisoner anymore.
Speaker 2 (01:19:41):
Another time, another one we're sitting down at Mount
Vernon, down at the bottom ofthe hill there, coming off 461
down going towards theinterstate Across the road.
There was the countdown, whatit was then, but it used to be
Godfathers and Subway.
You know where I'm talkingabout.
Yeah, I know exactly where.
It looks like it's falling downnow?
(01:20:02):
Yeah, it probably is.
There's nothing in it, butright there in the front of it
was a big, old, big swag like abig ditch, yeah, big ditch.
Big, ditch Big ditch and Foot'ssitting over there or something.
I'm sitting there talking tohim.
Speaker 1 (01:20:20):
Somebody gets in pursuit.
Speaker 2 (01:20:23):
They go by, I take out and take off.
You don't remember this?
I don't guess.
No, I didn't get to be a partof it.
Speaker 4 (01:20:31):
I didn't tell you stories.
Speaker 2 (01:20:32):
Anyway, we run, run, run.
We finally catch this guy.
I said where's Darren at?
Where'd he go?
He's running off.
I guess he went home.
We come rolling back there'sfoot, nose, dive down in that
big gully.
That cruiser was behind himsticking straight up there.
I said, oh there's where youwent.
Speaker 4 (01:20:53):
I was sitting there.
You know, listen, it's toughwhen your buddies are in pursuit
you're just sitting there,incapable of doing nothing.
Yeah, so it goes to that point.
Studies are in pursuit You'rejust sitting there, incapable of
doing nothing, yeah so, yeah,it goes to that point.
When I train guys, I'd saylisten, when you first hear the
(01:21:15):
word pursuit, or when you firstturn your lights on and you see
that car accelerate and youbecome to the realization
there's a pursuit happening andI'm in it, your heart rate has a
tendency to go from like 70 to150.
Oh yeah, and you've got tocontrol it.
You got to take a breath,settle down any high stress
situation.
You know, if you're rolling inthe building searching for
somebody.
I was.
(01:21:36):
I went on a.
You guys will appreciate thistoo, because it we've all done
it.
I went on an alarm drop onethursday afternoon and and I
mean you know how many alarmdrops have you have you been on?
We've all done it.
I went on an alarm drop oneThursday afternoon.
Speaker 3 (01:21:48):
And I mean, you know how many alarm drops have you
been on?
Speaker 4 (01:21:49):
A ton, A thousand, yeah a thousand, you know wind
or storm or lightning Easiestthing to get complacent about,
absolutely.
Well, I go in this I meet thiswoman.
She said I come home, my garagedoor's open, okay.
She said I'm going through adivorce, okay, so I'll go
through and check the house.
Well, I was meandering throughthe house.
I thought well, this woman.
I didn't know her.
But I said she just left hergarage door up.
(01:22:11):
She didn't close it on the wayto work.
So I'm meandering through thehouse, I'm looking in the
bathroom I'm spending a littletime, you know, because I'm
still relatively young, butexactly complacent.
I go in the and I raise up theshe's got her bed made and it's
overlapping the mattress and thebox spring and I raise up the
(01:22:32):
bed cover and there's a handunderneath the bed and I went.
I know.
If you'd have had a video on me.
Speaker 3 (01:22:41):
That was my.
Speaker 4 (01:22:42):
Barney Fife moment.
Speaker 5 (01:22:44):
Looking for you bullet.
I was like whoa, so I just tooka breath.
Speaker 4 (01:22:51):
I stepped out of the room, I got on the radio and I
kind of whispered Regimen sentsomebody this way.
And then I went over and stuckmy gun in that guy's face and
drug him out of there.
But a month later and this iswhy I appreciate police so much,
because I know how ungratefulof a job it is same woman.
(01:23:11):
I get a call one now onSaturday night.
It's from from her friend, awoman, her friend, and she says
and I didn't realize it was thesame woman.
She says my friend had she has.
She said she just left my house, we were playing cards.
She went home and there's acertain code word that we have
(01:23:31):
that tells me that she's indanger.
And she called me and gave methat word.
She couldn't talk, but she gaveme that word.
I'm like, okay, I'll head downthere, do welfare check.
Well, I knock on the and I'mlike, okay, I'll head down there
and do a welfare check.
Well, I knock on the door and Iswear they're the thickest
doors to this date that I'veever knocked on.
Couldn't budge them.
There was nothing in the house.
Couldn't see nothing.
The garage doors were sealed,couldn't tell.
(01:23:53):
You know, I called my sergeantdown.
I'm like man, what do we do?
This woman's convinced thatthis woman, han, old buddy of
mine.
He got there, he went aroundthe back side of the house and
the curtains were about a footshort of the floor and he got
down and he looked in thebedroom and he said there's a
woman who is.
She's bound behind her back,she's bound over her mouth and
(01:24:18):
she's bleeding, and there's aguy standing over with a baton.
I go, okay.
So the sergeant says well, boys, we can't call the special
response team because you'relooking at four to six hours
arrival.
He said we got to go.
I mean, so I beat on that doorand listen, I've seen all them
cool Miami Vice documentariesthat you all have, but they
(01:24:40):
don't work at it.
I couldn't bust that door.
So the easiest way that I foundto get through this door was I
took my asp and I beat out ourglass patio door and I thought
well lord no tactical approachon this one, you know so we go
in steve, I want my brother tobe.
(01:25:01):
He said you go first foot.
And I said what?
Speaker 1 (01:25:02):
I gotta go first because I'm thinking, you know,
he's gonna shoot the first dudethat comes through the door.
Speaker 4 (01:25:07):
He says you go first.
I said what I gotta go first.
He said because you're big, yousoak up rounds he was thinking
the same thing.
We go down that hallway andI've got my gun up and I, you
know, I was thinking it's onright here.
I kick that door in and thatdude looked at me.
He was so surprised and I'mthinking, dude, you're the
dumbest criminal in the history.
You ain't heard my approach.
(01:25:28):
So I tackle him, we arrest him,we send her off to the hospital
.
She stays a couple days.
He treated her pretty bad.
He beat her up pretty bad andyou know, being handcuffed and
bound not handcuffed but beingduct taped behind your back and
over your mouth it's probablynot going to end well.
He's not going to turn youloose and say don't tell on me,
probably going to kill her.
So I felt like we did some goodthat night.
(01:25:49):
You know, we high-fived.
She went off the hospital.
We charged him with a prettysevere charge.
Well, about a week later I wasat post.
I saw her come in the lobby andI thought to myself I bet she's
coming to thank me for savingher life.
I just know she is.
Well, my sergeant who happenedto be there that night goes out
and meets her and I can tell theconversation is heated up and
(01:26:12):
I'm like what in the world?
Why did you make her mad?
Speaker 5 (01:26:14):
She's come to commend me and you're running her off.
Speaker 4 (01:26:18):
I'm expecting something out of this man.
I saved her life.
Well, he comes back in thereand says what was that all about
?
He says man, he's cussed.
She won't believe it.
She was coming to complain onyou for beating her door out.
Oh my gosh.
So boys welcome to policing.
That's the truth.
I appreciate what you boys havedone, all of you You've served.
(01:26:41):
I appreciate what the boys andgirls do now who serve an
ungrateful occupation I onlyrival to that of a basketball
official in tournament time.
Speaker 2 (01:26:52):
I hate them guys speaking of, there's a time we
get a call this Timmy Cameron,you know Timmy.
Oh yeah, timmy's a pretty bigbully.
He's riding with me one night.
I give out a call, a welfarecheck.
His neighbor's calling.
(01:27:14):
I said listen, we've not seenthis woman in three or four
weeks.
Her car's sitting in thedriveway, not laid out, and
she's supposedly you know, she'sgot a sickness and it could be
a fatal sickness, of course.
Anyway, we go out there.
It's on Highway 70.
We pull up in the driveway.
She lives in a single-widetrailer and we get out, talk to
(01:27:39):
the neighbor.
I said when was the last timeyou saw her?
It's been, oh, it's been threeor four weeks.
We know she's sick, there'ssomething wrong.
I said okay, so we go up and webeat on the door, bam, bam, bam.
Timmy goes around the back,beats on the back door, Bam.
We go around just to try tojust beat on windows and
everything.
No one comes to the door.
I said well, if she's, we knowwe we probably need to go in.
(01:28:06):
She knows she may be, you know,maybe she can't, you know, call
for help or anything like that,or worse, she could be deceased
.
So Timmy hauls off, kicks thedoor.
You know how trailer doors are.
I mean, it just tires thatplumb off the hinges.
There's nothing left, just Justto open it.
So we go in there, all thelights are out, and we go
(01:28:28):
through and we're flickinglights on and I open the bedroom
door and I flick the light.
I reach around and flip thelight.
She sat straight up in the bed.
What in the world is going on?
I said are you okay?
She said yeah, why not.
What would you think I wouldn'tbe okay?
I said well, the neighbor'scalled, Said they hadn't seen
you in four or five weeks.
She said, well, ain't nothingwrong with me?
(01:28:48):
I said did you hear us bangingon the trailer, Knocking you
know, hitting the door and stuff?
No, I said okay, she gets upout of the bed gets her knock
(01:29:11):
down alone, comes in there.
First thing she says she walksup who's gonna pay for that door
?
Yeah, yeah, that's the way itis.
Yeah, so yeah, no, no, me andtanny cobbled it up the best we
could, but you know, yeah, shewas upset.
She didn't care if we waschecking on her or not.
See if she's okay, she wantedthat door fixed.
And then what do you do?
How do you?
How do?
Speaker 4 (01:29:21):
you do that differently yeah how do you?
Speaker 2 (01:29:22):
how do you do that differently?
How do you do it differently?
There's no other way you can doit.
Speaker 4 (01:29:27):
You've got existing circumstances.
Your belief is the informationyou've been getting.
Is that she's in harm's way oryou're thinking she's probably
dead.
Speaker 3 (01:29:35):
Preservation of life.
That's what we're there for.
Speaker 4 (01:29:38):
You've got to do that .
You've got no other options.
I can't believe she didn't hearall that, I used to get ticked
at pain.
I still get this.
You know, tell your buddies tonot cut my gate if they're going
to go in cut marijuana.
I'm like how do they know tocall you yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
I mean it ain't like you know, I hear that a lot.
Speaker 4 (01:29:57):
Well, they could go to the.
Okay, so we're supposed to senda fleet of troopers to the
courthouse to determine who ownsthat property and then I guess,
google the name and for anumber to call you and say hey
man, is it okay to go throughyour gate to cut the marijuana
that's on your farm?
I mean some of the stuff peoplecomes up with.
Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
Be glad we're getting it off of there.
Speaker 4 (01:30:16):
That's why it's good for stuff like this Kudos to you
guys to bring it in, because ithelps us, kind of kind of it's
therapy for us.
Yeah, yeah, to talk about theabsurdity that we deal with and
you and you'll deal withprobably absurdity more as a
police officer than you will asa veteran and I know that's a
(01:30:38):
service has its bureaucraticnonsense, but the people you
serve and the people you dealwith and the people you work for
, it wears on you over time.
Speaker 3 (01:30:48):
So kudos to you all for doing this stuff and letting
people come in and chat so yeahwhen I was going through, you
know, some therapy and stuff,when I'm, you know, going
through some craziness therethey they talked about that you
know the military has they gofor nine months and then they're
(01:31:09):
home or whatever year andthey're back for the rotations
and stuff.
Really, officers, police andevery aspect of it, not just
police, but you serve 20 yearsdoing anything and first
responding, especially us.
You're on deployment for 20straight years basically With a
(01:31:31):
couple breaks here and there forsome vacation, especially if
you're deploying in the samecommunity that you live in.
So it's like you never reallyleave it.
You're just in a differentcapacity Coming from you know,
being deployed before and thefront lines of belgium, yeah,
you know, but we it's a huge dipthere yeah that's stressful and
(01:31:56):
it's scary and I know the guysthat you know went and shot up
and got you know that's adifferent story.
Yeah, but we had that and webrought it home with us a lot of
times with our familiesdeploying.
How many times did somebody sayto you at a grocery store or
somewhere, you took me to jailand you're sitting there pushing
(01:32:17):
your kid in the car and youdon't?
Speaker 2 (01:32:19):
know what to expect.
You remember me yeah, Notreally Exactly and you're like I
will take my to hurt you.
Speaker 4 (01:32:21):
You remember?
Speaker 3 (01:32:22):
me?
Yeah, not really Exactly, andyou're like I will take my kid
out of this and beat you with it.
Speaker 5 (01:32:29):
There's two types of officers too.
You've got the officers thatwhen they get off duty, they
want nobody to know that they'repolice officers.
And then you've got the otherguys that are walking around
with everything, wanting to know.
I was always like I don't wantanybody to know.
For one, I don't want to haveto work while I'm off duty and
then for two.
I don't want people to know whoI am.
Speaker 2 (01:32:49):
They know us.
I find people tend to know thatyou're a police officer,
whether you present it to themor not that's true, and I'll
tell you a perfect example Meand Karen.
When we got married, we went ona honeymoon.
Guess where we went?
Kings Island.
Anyway, Boy, that's Big spender.
Well, my brother-in-law at thetime was a bride programmer at
(01:33:13):
Kings Island, so he'd done allkinds of stuff.
So you got a good deal Smart ashell.
Oh yeah, smart as hell, I'llget you in free.
Come to the back gate.
I'll open the gate.
Come on in.
Speaker 3 (01:33:22):
So anyway, real big spirit, you stay in great form.
Speaker 4 (01:33:25):
You're very much man.
Karen's going to hear this.
Speaker 2 (01:33:27):
I love you, Karen.
Speaker 5 (01:33:29):
No, that was probably like gold to her.
Oh, we don't have to spend nomoney on that.
I mean, it's all good.
She said don't say nothingthat's going to get me in.
Speaker 2 (01:33:43):
You've already done it, the CBO will be alright.
I always tell her you've got tobypass Congress sometimes, but
anyway.
But anyway we're in there goingaround doing our thing.
We go in these guys doing thesecaricature or whatever cartoons
(01:34:03):
.
Speaker 3 (01:34:03):
So I said let's get one of these.
We go in these guys doing thesecaricature or whatever.
Speaker 2 (01:34:05):
Yeah, the drawings, cartoons, cartoons and drawings.
So I said let's get one of them.
And still hanging up today backthere in my little bedroom.
So we go sit down and that guysays he looks at me and says I
know what you do for a living.
I said what's that?
He said you're the police.
I said what makes you thinkthat?
He said you just got the look.
(01:34:25):
It's a demand.
You got that hateful ass look.
Speaker 4 (01:34:33):
Well, you know most of us wear a watch or some kind
of.
You know you got an insignia ofa fallen brother.
You know most of us tuck ourshirt in and line our gig line
up, or at least when we're.
You know most of us tuck ourshirt in and line our gig line
up, at least when we're.
You know there's just certainindicators.
Most of us wear a cap and weknow how to wear a cap.
You know it ain't no flat billfor any of you.
Speaker 1 (01:34:52):
New generation police officers wearing a flat bill
correct that now.
Speaker 4 (01:34:58):
But you know, I mean there are certain indicators.
But I'll be honest with you.
Just Thursday, man, I was inBullitt County and I was leaving
and some guy said you must havebeen a trooper.
You look like a trooper.
I'm like, yeah, a long time agoI was.
But you know that makes me feelgood, yeah.
It does.
You know, I mean I'm okay withthat.
But, Chad, I'm getting ready todesign a class to teach court
(01:35:22):
security about off-duty.
You know there's a lot ofpolice that get killed off-duty,
yeah, you know.
And so so when do you interveneand when do you just?
Speaker 1 (01:35:32):
get your notepad out and be a good witness.
Speaker 4 (01:35:34):
No, so I'm designing that now, but some of the stuff
we talk about because, man, yourdanger level skyrockets
off-duty, absolutely, becauseyou really in the force
continuum.
You've maybe only got twofactors.
Yeah, you know, that's yourability to de-escalate, or
hopefully you're armed for anarmed encounter.
But I mean, it's a difficultparameter to operate under Yep.
Speaker 3 (01:35:58):
You don't have that tool belt full of pepper or a
taser or handcuffs.
Speaker 2 (01:36:05):
And you don't have the luxury of having somebody
there to back you, unless someof the citizens are in the car.
Speaker 3 (01:36:11):
And the worst thing you could do is probably take
somebody to the ground byyourself, because you don't know
who they're with.
Speaker 4 (01:36:18):
That's right, exactly .
Speaker 3 (01:36:19):
So off duty is maybe a good witness to that.
There's time in life.
I kind of want to hear yourclass now, that would be a good
one the refresher stuff for us.
You know I went to the academyin 2002 and 3, so my experience
(01:36:40):
and what I've already forgottenis different.
Police officer skills needs toprobably be part of the academy,
so my experience and what I'vealready forgotten is different.
You know police officer skillsneeds to probably be part of the
academy's things every year, atleast a little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:36:56):
You know, during your 40-hour deal, in-service stuff,
because I forget.
Well, I think after two orthree years or so, if you've
been on the, you know, becausewe get complacent a lot of
police officers do, and I thinkthat needs to be, you know yeah,
and it's.
Speaker 3 (01:37:08):
It's just a reminder.
If it is getting shot with a,with a sim, round every now and
then to wake you back up to like, hey, this, this routine
traffic stop or this domestic orthis alarm drop that you think
is just the everyday thing, hey,it is not.
No, and you know approachingvehicles and you know.
(01:37:35):
Everything changed when I wentback to teach.
I went up to academy class toteach defensive tactics.
Well, the handcuffing itchanged 100.
Like what?
Speaker 5 (01:37:45):
What do you mean?
Putting on a figure together?
It's probably different nowthan what it was when I went
through and I'm not saying ourway was the best.
Speaker 3 (01:37:51):
I don't think it was and I don't think you know
there's all I mean, like ifyou're, if you can get a guy to
do everything they've just throwthem the handcuffs, they'll
handcuff themselves yeah that.
I understand that, but there hasto be a reality check in the
academy and I know they'reteaching basic and I gotta you
know I'm careful because basictraining is what it is.
Yeah, it is not about totallybecoming the law.
(01:38:14):
You know like square away,because there's a whole lot more
you're going to learn.
But a good basic and I get it,but there's also like we're
spending a lot of time onsomething well that.
Speaker 5 (01:38:25):
I think that's an agency thing.
See, we at london we didn't, wedidn't train a whole lot.
There was no like scenariotraining afterwards.
There was no like re-up.
We shot twice a year, I meandaylight, dark and that's it.
And then a lot of these otheragencies you're looking at are
monthly trainings.
You've got some kind ofrefresher training, some kind of
(01:38:47):
you know ground fighting, somekind of tactics, something that
come up learning to shootdifferently, learning, learning
different things, that keepingthese keeping the skills, the
skills the diminishable skillskeeping them.
Speaker 2 (01:39:00):
That's what I like about it.
Towards the end of my careerthe last two, three years, I
think, travis, you fire arminstructor no, but Jesse was,
jesse was, but now we theyintegrated the the ground
fighting type of stuff and meand I thought that was the
greatest thing ever.
Speaker 3 (01:39:19):
That should be, yeah, they took the windshield out of
that car, so we didn't, andthen I had them over there doing
a problem of God.
Speaker 5 (01:39:24):
That was one of the best trainings that we had ever
done.
Shooting from the car I'd neverdone that.
Speaker 3 (01:39:30):
I'll be honest.
It took me about six weeks toget over that ass whooping I
took from everybody.
I mean I took everybody whippeda fire at me when he's laying
on that mat for a while.
He's laying on that mat for awhile.
Speaker 2 (01:39:43):
Everybody's like all right, you did a good job.
But it was good.
I mean that should beintegrated into any kind of
training.
Speaker 4 (01:39:50):
To reiterate your point listen, man, if you're in
a gun battle, your heart rate'sgoing to be up, and that's what
you guys are talking about.
You know what do we do when wego to the ranch.
We sit out there about 15 yardsand we we focused on that front
sight and we squeezed thattrigger because we want our
target to look good.
Speaker 3 (01:40:07):
Yeah, we want to show her, but look how much better I
did Look at that small group Iput in the upper abdomen.
Speaker 4 (01:40:12):
Yeah, we want that, but the reality is this, boys,
it's not going to.
Speaker 5 (01:40:16):
In real life You're looking at, maybe hitting 50% of
your shots, your heart rate'sprobably 180, 200.
Speaker 4 (01:40:21):
You ain't seeing that front side.
And then if you have to do areload you know we talk about
fine motor skills deterioratingGood luck.
And then if you factor in amalfunction, and clearing that
malfunction at a heart rate of170.
Yeah, I mean.
So that's why it's you know,young guys may, why you make us
do that, for that's why, that'swhy, yeah, cause we're preparing
(01:40:49):
you for the worst day of yourlife.
Yeah to reap, to perform underthe most intense circumstances
of a heart rate of about 180 andthat's the difference.
Speaker 3 (01:40:53):
I really think and I didn't go to State Police
Academy, but I think that's thedifference, that they put that a
lot of stress.
Speaker 4 (01:41:01):
Well, it could be the OCJ too.
Speaker 3 (01:41:03):
I mean, all our police academies do that, but I
think that was the difference ofit is a lot of city agencies
and you don't have a lot ofbackup.
But you all were training.
You're by yourself on everycall and they put that physical
stress because you can't go outand fist fight or I can't go out
and get an actual gun battlewith you to simulate that stress
(01:41:27):
that it's going to be.
So how do you do it?
Physical stress, you get thatheart rate up and then you go
function a skill, because that'sthe closest we can get to.
That is by getting you windedand getting your heart rate up
physically, like doing push-ups,making you sprint out, do
something and then try to goshoot something.
Speaker 5 (01:41:46):
It's a lot different than popping off from a 15-yard
line like that.
It needs to be put intoperspective too.
I think one of the stopstraining.
I'm assuming they still do thatup there at DOC.
Speaker 4 (01:41:57):
I'd say they do.
I don't know.
We've been going a while.
Speaker 5 (01:42:00):
But yeah, but that puts things into perspective,
because you're being a policeofficer, you're a superhero for
the most part, and you thinkyou're bulletproof and you're
not.
You don't ever think you'regoing to get shot at, you don't
ever think you're going to getshot.
You go through that stopstraining.
And I remember I mean I'llnever forget it, because I was
like you know I always thoughtin my head you know, your feet
(01:42:22):
are the first ones out You'regoing to be able to do all that.
The second scenario I wentthrough I popped my door, leaned
my head out and the guy thatwas in our class I mean he could
shoot the wings off of a gnatand he shot me right in the eye
through the crack of the door.
I said well, I mean I'm done.
I didn't even get to get out ofmy car, so I mean that right
(01:42:44):
there, puts it into perspectivefor you.
It don't matter, I mean there's.
Speaker 3 (01:42:49):
I'll tell you a quick funny story on me.
You remember when we all wentthrough rapid deployment again
you know, I don't know if youall did when they hosted all
that stuff, I had to go over toWattsburg, me and Joe Smith, and
(01:43:10):
final day you've done all thetactics and ran through and you
did all your searching and allthat.
So they came in they didn'ttell us where the, so you know
the subject was on this activeshooter.
You go to stimulate, but theycome around to let you know, to
(01:43:30):
speed it up, and they would popoff them sim rounds and just uh,
get you to chase them.
To speed up the scenarios tothe slow search, here I am.
This dude comes around, he wasan officer up there at
Weisberger somewhere.
He comes around and just doesthis around a corner door and
I'm down the stairs and he hitme right in the ankle.
(01:43:53):
Just boom Like that.
Speaker 5 (01:43:57):
You're out, I mean you're out.
Speaker 3 (01:44:00):
He's like, no, you don't get to get out that easy.
So I was like, oh my gosh, howlucky.
And that's the way it is.
You can get taken out just likethat by a straight, just
accidental, just to have likehere we are and that's how quick
you can be out of the fight, orI'm like it's just an ankle,
(01:44:21):
let's go.
Speaker 2 (01:44:22):
They were like oh, you're good, that's a pleasure,
let's go.
Speaker 3 (01:44:25):
But I remember thinking I'm out before I
started and that could happen.
Yeah, so be mentally preparedto go and anything could happen.
And my stress level went way upthen because I was like, ah,
that hurt, and then you'rerunning up them steps and trying
to find wherever that was, andall those tactics that you've
been practicing all week is,like, really quickly diminished.
(01:44:49):
Yeah, because of that stressBecause it got real, because
they had hostages in there andthey had bad guys in there.
That's a good training.
But training you have to trainyou do.
You can't sit back on yourhonchos and think I got this in
the academy or we've done thisbefore, Because nothing's the
same.
Speaker 4 (01:45:09):
And even on a small scale man.
I watch a lot of YouTube and Iwatch a lot of police shootings
and police interactions.
Watch a lot of YouTube and Iwatch a lot of police shootings
and police interactions.
I don't want to be judgmental,but I need to watch what
happened and then I need toanalyze and evaluate what would
I do differently.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you know.
So there's more than justclassroom training.
It's something you need to dosomething about every day to
stay in the, stay in the realmof it, especially if you carry a
(01:45:34):
gun for a living.
Speaker 3 (01:45:36):
When you don't, when you're not thinking you better
go and get out and it's time tohang it up.
Speaker 2 (01:45:42):
I'm kind of jealous of the people in the courthouse
where I'm at Probation.
They shoot three times a monthReally.
They don't even carry a gun inthe courthouse Not allowed to
carry one in the courthouse.
I am the only one allowed tocarry a gun in the courthouse,
but they shoot three times aweek.
We shoot once a year.
(01:46:02):
It makes no sense.
It just makes no sense.
Speaker 3 (01:46:13):
That was the oddest feeling when that courthouse,
when I went in there on a callto go to probation parole and
they were filling us in onsomething and to give up my
firearm to you guys you're likeuh-oh, that's a weird feeling
yeah.
Speaker 5 (01:46:24):
I'm not supposed to do this for anybody.
Speaker 2 (01:46:28):
We get a lot of flack over that.
When the FBI comes in DEASecrets, I don't care who they
are you're not bringing a guninside the score house.
That's the rule.
I'm with the FBI, sorry budthat's even more reason.
Speaker 4 (01:46:50):
I deal with it on the state level.
But here's what I was meetingwith the judge on Thursday and
she's contemplated the statelevel.
But here's what I here's what Iwas meeting with the judge on
on thursday and she'scontemplated taking every gun
out of the courthouse with theexception of court security.
And I just said I cautionagainst that, ma'am I said
because I want more guns in thecourthouse, especially the
(01:47:11):
people that are trained to usethem.
I you don't tell a plumber tocome fix your lanky sink and
leave his wrench in the car.
I agree, and she looked at melike I had one eye but I found
that.
Well, anyway, moving on, Ibetter not comment, but anyway I
hope I can deter that.
But I know, Doug's, it is arule and I know I'd always bug
(01:47:35):
me to have to leave my gun inthe cabinet and you know and I
understand why you can't do itat the jail.
But how many times have you putyour gun in the cabinet at the
jail and your old wife forgotyour?
Speaker 2 (01:47:46):
gun, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (01:47:48):
I worked about a six hour.
Speaker 4 (01:47:49):
I got to a point where I was putting my gun on my
gas pedal.
Yeah, Because I knew when mybig clumsy foot would touch my
gas pedal to drive off.
That was my key.
Oh, I better put my gun in theholster.
Speaker 5 (01:47:59):
I started throwing mine in my trunk.
Speaker 3 (01:48:01):
Arrested somebody Went and ate at Wendy's.
Oh Lord, really, I was a joke,took somebody to jail early,
went and ate at Wendy's andreached down like I always do
and wrenched my hand on my gun.
I was like it ain't there and Iworked four hours without a gun
(01:48:24):
and I didn't say nothing.
I said I gotta go right quick.
Guys, I had to go to thebathroom left, went back to jail
.
I got some paperwork in here.
I was like, oh my gosh, I'vedone that one time.
Speaker 2 (01:48:40):
I'm running radar Up down 461, up in Mount Vernon,
this car I made it.
It's running like 90 miles anhour.
I said that's good, I lock himin, I whip around, get him
pulled over and I get out of mycar, get all situated and
everything.
Well, he steps out, person ofit, he gets back to back about
(01:49:05):
the trunk of his car and I'm atprobably the front end of the
hood of mine.
He said hold up there.
I said what Stop?
I said what he said I need toask you a question.
I said what he said I need toask you a question.
I said yeah.
He said where's your gun at?
Oh, no, first words out of hismouth.
I went.
Speaker 4 (01:49:25):
I said uh yeah, you have a good day.
Speaker 2 (01:49:29):
Yeah, be careful, yeah that's very good when he
puts on a badge he said I'm withABC alcohol beverage control.
Yeah, and his big I know, youknow.
When he went to the badge hesaid I'm with the ABC Alcohol
Beverage Control and his big Iknow.
He's got a big, rough, huskyfeller.
I know you remember who he was.
He's from Somerset.
Oh.
But after he entered, where didyou leave?
Speaker 4 (01:49:47):
it at the jail, the jail.
Speaker 2 (01:49:48):
Yeah, yeah, I just slept there.
Yeah, I mean that's easily done.
It's very easily done, you know.
Speaker 4 (01:49:55):
I get it, but man, it's tough.
Speaker 5 (01:49:58):
But yeah, I was thinking, you know, I figured
you guys might ask my mostembarrassing police story, and I
was Well, we hadn't yet, butsince you mentioned it, you know
, travis alluded to it.
Speaker 4 (01:50:12):
Doug alluded to it.
When the public figures out youain't got no gun on, that's
pretty humiliating.
Speaker 5 (01:50:17):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (01:50:19):
Mine.
I don't know.
I mean I forgot my gun but Ialways managed to figure it out
before anybody else did.
I think best I remember maybe Idid no, when I was in Metro's
Police Academy I drove all theway from out running to
Lexington Metro Academy andforgot my whole gun belt.
Speaker 2 (01:50:33):
Oh, yeah, I got rid of me and forgot my whole gun
belt.
Speaker 4 (01:50:37):
Oh yeah, I got.
That's probably the reason theysaid you're not going to.
Probably that led to the fileof dismissal, but but anyway, I
was running right on 75northbound and I stopped a guy
between the the 90 and the 95and I got his license and and I
I set his license in my lapwhile I typed his ticket.
And uh, so I got done typinghis ticket and I looked for his
(01:51:01):
license and it had evaporated.
Don't know where it went and Ilooked and boys, there ain't no
tactical, promising way to lookfor a man's license underneath
the seat of your cruise room.
Speaker 5 (01:51:16):
And there's an abyss between the seat and the.
Speaker 1 (01:51:19):
French fries, mints all kinds of.
Speaker 5 (01:51:23):
That console and between that console and seat,
if you go down there, I've beenlooking for that for a year I
knew that's where it was.
Speaker 4 (01:51:30):
But how?
How do you fix it on the sideof the interstate with a
motorist 40 feet in front of you?
I looked, and I looked and Itried to look up and see if he
was looking in his mirror.
I know he was and I wasthinking man Barney Five stopped
me.
I never found it.
I walked up to his car and Isaid, buddy, listen, I'm just
going to be honest with you.
Speaker 2 (01:51:50):
Here's your ticket, by the way, slow down, I'm torn
up, down, I'm torn up.
I probably would I know.
Speaker 4 (01:51:58):
Then I said I've really misplaced your license,
but I will find it and I'll mailit to you.
You be careful.
He was a little bit aggravated,and rightfully so.
Speaker 5 (01:52:06):
But that's okay.
I got a ticket and it's goingto cost me.
It costs him $22 to get hislicense.
Speaker 4 (01:52:11):
If you knew how hard it was for me to learn to do
e-citation.
You would appreciate that.
Yeah, I mean, that was tough.
And then hit print and thenyou're hoping your printer works
.
Speaker 3 (01:52:23):
Oh my gosh, it wasn't a smooth transition for me.
I hope it was for you, phil.
No, I remember we had themjunky printers that you know,
after we went away from thecarbon, the ones that done the
heat.
Yeah, those were okay becausethey were at least connected.
I'm talking when we've got them,ones that we sit in our seats
(01:52:44):
there, that would connectsometime.
Or the paper jam.
I remember going out getting myfirst ticket early on the FOT.
You know I was working onfederal overtime.
You out there, hit that thing,hit print and have nothing,
nothing and it jammed up.
You know I was working onfederal overtime.
You out there, hit that thing,hit print, nothing nothing and
it jammed up.
Speaker 2 (01:52:59):
That was in my Canon printer.
Speaker 3 (01:53:01):
Yes, I was just screaming up for 20 minutes on
the stop I couldn't print outthis ticket.
You know what, trevor?
I was the reason we got them.
Uh, oh well, here's the dealwith the one so I had.
That still sucks.
I let that person go Went home.
You know we had Went home,didn't work any.
(01:53:23):
Came out on a day off to workthat Got so mad at that printer.
I think I broke it Pretty sureand went home.
Wasted my time, wasted a bunchof that person's time.
I'm serious.
I'm on the side of the road for30 minutes with them and like I
can't get nothing done here.
(01:53:43):
When I changed cars they wasdoing inventory.
You know y'all do inventorieson the cars.
They found four printers in theback of my crib.
That's one of the reasons.
That's where the reason is.
Speaker 5 (01:53:58):
That reminds me of another story.
So on those same printers, wealways did have problems with
them.
Once we went to the thermalprinters it was great, but those
printers sucked.
Speaker 3 (01:54:08):
So we had thermal.
Speaker 2 (01:54:09):
See, I had mine connected directly.
I didn't do no Bluetoothing.
Speaker 5 (01:54:13):
I ended up connecting mine, but I went through one.
It didn't work.
Little Lee got me another one.
I don't he probably pulled?
It out of one of the four thatcame out of your car and this is
how I know it probably came outof your car.
Speaker 3 (01:54:23):
It wouldn't work either, and it was jammed that's
because I smashed it, probablyon the front we took it
completely apart, and there wasa corn dog stick stuck out.
(01:54:54):
That's great.
Let's do this some more.
We'll end it here.
We've got to keep coming backfor some more of this.
I don't know what the time is.
Speaker 5 (01:55:04):
We're close to two hours.
That's good.
Speaker 3 (01:55:07):
Didn't it go by fast?
I've enjoyed it, man, I havetoo.
It's fun.
Speaker 2 (01:55:11):
I appreciate you guys bringing this in.
I mean, I love it.
Speaker 3 (01:55:14):
Well, listen you guys , don't think you're in, You're
always invited.
I mean, what I'd like for youto do is let's bring those other
guys in here.
Speaker 4 (01:55:24):
Well, steve Long is like a robot.
He talks monotony, he tellssome funny stories, but you'll
never know it by the way hetalks.
Speaker 1 (01:55:31):
So you get him in here and he's got a lot of
little Doug Thomas disease hemight embellish one to quantify
more life.
Speaker 3 (01:55:39):
I didn't hear any lies.
Speaker 2 (01:55:40):
tonight I did have to tell one on stage before I
leave.
Yeah, and he was notorious forwearing that campaign hat while
he was driving.
Why he never took it off hardagain.
He didn't.
Speaker 4 (01:55:56):
It was a gold ball or something.
No ball or something.
Speaker 2 (01:56:00):
No it had to be on his head.
Well, he gets after afour-wheeler down in Pine Hill
and he's driving, he's goingaround and we get in this man's
yard.
We're just doing donuts in thisguy's yard, rooster tails are
flying straight up and anywayhis car gets stuck.
(01:56:23):
It won't go well, he jumps out.
When he jumps out I guess hishead hits the, his hat hits the
top of the car.
Well, it flies off.
He's running around.
He's gone for 10 minutes andI'm'm out there and he's
squalling.
He does arrest the guy.
He gets him arrested.
I don't know how, but he did.
(01:56:44):
And he said bring a car up here.
I said I don't think I can getit out.
He said see if you can get itout.
I said, okay, I get in.
I put it in reverse, it backsup.
It backed up, kind of easedaround, I get back up on the
road, finally Pull up there.
At first he said where's my hatat?
I go, I don't know.
(01:57:04):
I don't know where it's at.
He ain't got it.
You're using a gun.
You're holding on to that thinglike a baby holding on to a
bottle.
You're a stiff, tony, yeah.
But anyway, we get the guy inthe car.
We we gotta go back down thereand get my hat.
I said, okay, well, we driveback down there and I I get out,
we search around and I walkover it and I backed over it.
Speaker 6 (01:57:25):
I mean it oh yeah, he looks at him what I'll do now.
Speaker 2 (01:57:31):
I said, well, we'll get you a new one somewhere.
He truly wore it everywhere hewent he did, buddy, he is.
Speaker 4 (01:57:34):
I'll tell you a good one.
Well, that's the story.
It everywhere he went.
He did, buddy.
I'll tell you a good one.
Well, that's the same thing.
Tell the story about the nightwe were sitting at the 911
playing cards.
Oh Did.
I tell you have you told itbefore?
I don't think so Hot mic.
Speaker 2 (01:57:47):
Oh yeah, we were sitting.
We go to the sheriff's office.
Actually, we were going to goplay Rook or something probably
yeah, it was late at night, itwas raining.
Speaker 4 (01:57:55):
To all you listeners who raining and late at night go
ahead.
Speaker 2 (01:58:01):
We get into the sheriff's office.
We're sitting there and Stevewalks in.
He takes his hat off when hegets inside.
We just tosses it like thatover on the desk.
We're on that desk, it's wherethe sheriff's office radio is,
because it during the day thesecretary would actually would
do whatever, not the jailjailbird yeah well, he toss it
(01:58:23):
over, keys the mic up.
Of course we're unbeknownst to.
Speaker 3 (01:58:27):
You're at the sheriff's office.
Yeah, we're at the sheriff'soffice, okay but it was that I
could communicate.
Speaker 2 (01:58:33):
It was right, it was a yeah, we could communicate
with other deputies, whatever.
But anyway, keys the mic up andwe're sitting there
chitter-chattering and carryingon about doing this and doing
that and what good talk.
I would say that.
But phone rings it.
I said, hmm, it was like 2o'clock in the morning or
(01:58:58):
something like that.
Hello, sheriff's Office.
It was a deputy.
He said I think you got yourradio keyed up there.
I go why.
He said I'm hearing everythingyou said.
I've heard everything you'veall said.
Of course there was a lot ofpublic cuss.
Who knows what I would say Idon't remember.
I do remember but I'm not goingto tell it.
Let's put it that way.
(01:59:19):
I said oh my Lord.
We're looking around everywhereand I just happened to glance
over there on the desk and therewas that big campaign.
Hat Got that microphone keyedup.
I grabbed that hat and saidthere throw it to him.
Yeah, it wasn't good had aSpathagor, because back then
everybody had a scanner.
I mean there was no encryptionor nothing like that.
(01:59:43):
So everybody in scanner landheard everything we said.
I'm surprised somebody didn'tcall and say you got a bunch of
wild men up there.
You can do something with that.
Speaker 5 (01:59:54):
I want to tell one of them You've got a bunch of wild
men up there.
Speaker 4 (01:59:58):
You can do something.
Speaker 3 (01:59:59):
They were just sitting back with the popcorn.
I want to tell one of them,doug Thomas.
Oh, absolutely, we got all that.
This is where I want it.
Speaker 4 (02:00:03):
We're getting tired.
But we were sitting at Denny'sone night.
That's where we'd go Mostnights of the week.
We'd convene our policeoperations at Denny's at X-62.
Oh yeah, and we all had thesame things.
We'd order Mine was a sampler,you couldn't beat them Denny's
chicken strips and cheese sticks, buddy, listen, heaven.
But anyway, we were sittingthere and Doug was monotonous, I
(02:00:27):
mean, he was just he would dipright there.
Well, that night he was dippingin a Denny's cup.
Now you know where this isgoing.
Yep, and this is a tribute toour old, dear friend, now
deceased buddy, jimmy Silver.
And Jimmy was the gang leader.
He'd mentored a bunch of us.
We'd all sit around this table.
(02:00:48):
It was a round table.
If you go there to this dayit's a Mexican restaurant, but
that booth is still there,awesome.
And Jimmy always sat in thesame spot and we'd fill in
around him and we'd laugh andtalk.
Well, jimmy got done eating andI believe he liked, was it Dr
Pepper?
Yeah, he loved Dr Pepper.
Well, dr Pepper kind of lookslike Ambeer Old Jimmy.
(02:01:11):
He was thirsty, he was eating.
I think Moons Over Miami washis favorite meal.
Moons Over Miami was hisfavorite meal.
Moons Over Miami.
He was drinking and he rinsedand he got the wrong cup and he
turned it up and down, it wentand he went oh duh.
(02:01:31):
And we started laughing.
Jimmy didn't like to be theblood of the joke.
I never did like to be theblood of the joke, but, boy, the
joke was on him.
Oh Doug, I'll kill you.
You know what he said if ithadn't been anybody else, I'd
have killed him.
Speaker 2 (02:01:51):
I'd have killed him oh Doug, yeah, he said it two,
three times yeah, that was a ohbubba bubba.
Speaker 4 (02:02:02):
He quit drinking what , what the cup or the rest of we
eating, and he quit using thatfor his big cup.
Speaker 3 (02:02:10):
That's awesome.
Speaker 4 (02:02:11):
Yeah, that's awesome, it's awful but hey, listen, I
appreciate you guys letting mecome on.
We've enjoyed it.
Speaker 5 (02:02:19):
We've got to sit back and kind of just listen to the
caterwauling.
Speaker 4 (02:02:23):
Well, this dude here, man, I'm proud to call him my
friend.
We were buddies.
I used to.
I'd court to.
He was a before he was a deputy.
He was like the cashier atCarter's Market, not clerk.
He was a desk before he was adeputy.
He was like the cashier atCarter's Market, not clerk.
He was an out clerk.
He'd roll in at 11 and worktill 7 in the morning and I'd
(02:02:43):
court till Friday night and Iused to think of reasons to
leave my girlfriends early so Icould go up and hang out with
Bubba at Carter's.
Market and I'd sit with himuntil 3 o'clock in the morning.
We'd laugh and make fun of eachother.
But man, this guy's been mybuddy for years, a long time.
We've been through a lottogether and I love him Love him
like my brother.
I never had that's awesome.
(02:03:04):
I love you too I mean, I'd tellhim that yesterday we rode
four-wheelers yesterday andabout every time I leave him I
lot about dealing with peopleand you know and I know he did
you fellas too just theinteraction, social interaction.
He's one of the best rightthere.
Speaker 2 (02:03:20):
I prayed all the kindness, I really appreciate it
listen.
Speaker 5 (02:03:24):
This has been, this has been fun for me yeah, I've
got to show it up too, and it'srare for me.
Speaker 3 (02:03:29):
I know.
Sorry everybody, but I have.
This is what I wanted.
This is I have.
This is what I wanted.
This is you guys.
This is what it's about, and Ilove getting out of just what we
know, because I don't know all.
We're friends.
I've known you for a while butI had no idea all your stories
(02:03:50):
and your shenanigans you gotinto and that's.
We're going to continue thisone we're going to have some fun
.
Speaker 5 (02:03:55):
It's just as much entertaining to me as it is
anybody listening, because it'sjust a lot of stories.
I've heard the goal of this andwhat I've told.
Speaker 3 (02:04:03):
when I tell people like, hey, listen to this, we're
just it's like man, you're onto something there.
I'm like maybe we'll see We'vegot to get beyond just our
little region, yeah, and get outthere and spread, you know
maybe this way I've got a couple.
Speaker 2 (02:04:18):
I'm sure Foote's got plenty.
Speaker 1 (02:04:19):
Oh I know, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (02:04:20):
Just get them.
I mean, I don't know if you cando it remotely, or however you
can do it.
Listen, I'm ready to starttraveling.
I'm ready to start getting onthe road.
Don't know how barren it feels.
Greg Brown.
Yeah, he's a good storyteller,oh my gosh, yeah, I could tell
(02:04:41):
one right now.
I mean, you'd laugh, your honey, will he come on?
You think, oh yeah, oh yeah, Ibelieve he would Well save him.
Speaker 3 (02:04:47):
Then, yeah, I'm To sit right here without this mic
in front of my face, hard tobelieve, and just listen to that
and let you all have it.
And that's what's fun aboutthis, because I don't know
everybody's story and I want tohear it Just as much.
I like telling stuff andhearing it.
I just want to sit back andjust enjoy it and laugh at you,
(02:05:08):
because there's some I mean weget into stupid stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:05:10):
I've met a couple guys down at Fletzy and one's a
retired Louisiana State Trooper.
We got to get him.
Oh my God, I mean hey, we gotto figure it out.
He could bring you to tears,laughing, just like that.
Speaker 5 (02:05:26):
Does he have a Cajun accent?
Speaker 2 (02:05:30):
Not real bad, but you can tell he's from the South
very much.
Speaker 3 (02:05:34):
So that's the goal.
We'll keep bringing them in andy'all.
It'd be cool.
We don't have to be the MCs ofit, we don't have to sit here,
we can just do it.
Y'all can do it.
Speaker 4 (02:05:46):
I'm old, I only know about three stories and I've
done twice tonight.
Speaker 2 (02:05:52):
I'm scared to death.
You've got plenty.
Speaker 3 (02:05:55):
That's what frightens me, but you've got to be
careful with the ones you takewhat scares me is we get old and
nobody the next generationbehind us will never hear these
funny stories that they canbuild off of and help their
career, or just who we reallyare as people.
(02:06:16):
Not just that badge that wewore yeah, but we're well, I'm
into.
Speaker 2 (02:06:22):
I was telling hammer up at the courthouse the other
day I said you know, I don'tknow nobody at the PD.
Mm-hmm.
I said do you think theyremember who I am?
Did they know who I?
Probably not.
So that's, that's really sad ina lot of ways.
That make me know, makes youbecause you of course, you gain
a lot of friends.
Speaker 5 (02:06:41):
You know the friends you used to work with they're
there, but the new guys wellthey, they say you're relevant
once you retire, you're relevantfor about six months and then
that's it.
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I agree,I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (02:06:55):
And that deep in your heart you're like, that hurts
because, I gave them so much, Ibroke bones, bled for them cried
Well, that's the cool.
Speaker 4 (02:07:05):
Thing about what you guys are doing.
It gives you to pay tribute topeople who have gone before us.
You know we talk about Jimmy alot tonight, but we honor Jimmy.
His wife, nancy, still mournshis loss, but I mean we honor
him.
Yeah, I'll tell you an examplethat backs up what I'm saying
and this goes to all of you.
(02:07:26):
This is a state police story,but you can insert London PD
Laurel, so whatever you want toinsert, because guys have paved
the way and established thelines, the rules of engagement,
if you will, long before we didso.
This is a way to pay tributeand homage to them.
(02:07:47):
But I was over on 577.
It was on a Sunday afternoonand I turned on a.
I mean, you all know what adrunk looks like.
I'm talking to a bunch ofseasoned professionals here.
He had that red face, thatcigarette dangling, and I met
him.
And to me, I tried to be adrunk hunter and Sunday
afternoons was my best time.
Friday and Saturday night wasgood, but I'm telling you Sunday
(02:08:08):
afternoon wasn't.
Anyway, I met him and I turnedon him Old Kirby's, you know,
577, old Kirby Road.
Well, I sped up about a mileand a half, couldn't find him.
I know he turned off.
So I turned around and wentback, circled back to check on
him and I rolled up on thedriveway that had a trailer that
ran perpendicular to the roador, I'm sorry, parallel to the
(02:08:29):
road.
It was even with the road andthe driveway was gravel and
there were skid marks going inthe driveway.
I thought, well, there he is.
Well, I wheeled around and Ipulled in the driveway and, sure
enough, there's the vehiclethat I turned on.
Well, I'm young, I'm hunting aDUI and in my opinion, he ran
for me.
(02:08:50):
I knock on the door.
Guy opens the door up and hesays hey, trooper, how can I
help you?
I say I need to come in and Ilook and I see the guy I just
met moments earlier sitting onthe couch breathing heavy.
I said I need to talk to thatguy.
He said well, come on in.
So I gave a field sobriety testin the living room of that
house.
I know, I know I've got aformer major and a former chief
(02:09:14):
and you're going Sergeant, oh myGod, what are you doing?
But I'm a trooper, I'm huntinga DUI.
Well, I gave him a few sobrietytests and I said, sir, are you
going to jail for DUI.
Well, the guy that opened thedoor and his six friends.
They were playing pool andcards, they were drinking.
He said, buddy, you ain'ttaking our friend to jail for
(02:09:36):
dui I'm one guy and I ain'tchuck norris.
I can't whip three men, I can'twhip two men.
This is this is escalating toyou gotta have the ron white
mentality yeah, I don't know howmany they it's gonna take, but
I don't have any they're gonnause exactly, and uh, and you
know, and everything that Iteach was defined in that moment
(02:09:58):
, right there, because they'rewatching me and I'm watching
them.
It's probably the only ClintEastwood moment I've ever had in
my whole career, but I'm scaredto death.
Speaker 1 (02:10:08):
You talk about fear a while ago.
Speaker 4 (02:10:10):
T Dot I was scared to death because there's eight of
them in there looking at me madbecause I'm getting ready to
take one of their dudes to jail.
He said you ain't takinganybody to jail?
And his friend looks at him andhe said man, that's a Kentucky
State Trooper you're talking toNow.
That's a tribute to the men andwomen who have gone before me.
(02:10:30):
Again, this is not just atrooper moment.
This is the same thing.
Could be London PD, that is.
Or not just a trooper moment.
This is the same thing.
Could be London PD, that is.
Or Laura Leso.
That's a tribute to those whohave paved my way and made it
easier for me.
Yeah, now that turned out theywere willing to fight me, taking
him for DUI, but post hollereda few minutes later and said 902
(02:10:51):
, are you 10-12?
I'm like, yeah, dummy, I'mstanding here with them all.
You know it's 10-4 that vehiclestole out of Corbin they was
going to fight for a DUI.
But when they heard that theysat back down and said bubby on
y'all we ain't going on the mapfor a stolen vehicle.
No honor among thieves, we'reout on that one, but that was a
(02:11:12):
credit right there to all.
I tell that story when I getaround police reunions and troop
reunions because that's acredit to the gray-haired men
right now who are feeble andgetting old.
But hey, listen, you paved theway for a guy like me and I hope
that the young guys will saythat about me.
Speaker 3 (02:11:28):
And they will, and that's the cool thing about it.
Hopefully, even though we don'tknow them, their traditions and
the things they hear from us.
Hopefully we paved the way too,Made it a little easier for
them.
They've learned from our sillymistakes in life.
That's part of it too.
We took some hard ways, we didit the hard way sometimes.
(02:11:50):
Maybe that helped them do it alittle easier, a little smarter.
I agree.
Good, that's awesome.
That's an awesome story.
Speaker 5 (02:11:59):
Alright we'll shut up Everybody good.
Speaker 2 (02:12:03):
Just one more.
Speaker 3 (02:12:04):
We'll keep going.
This was so much fun.
Speaker 2 (02:12:07):
Thank you all so much .
Thank you all for having us.
Speaker 5 (02:12:08):
Alright, guys, catch us on the next one.
See ya, we'll see you next time.
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