Blue Lights on the Bayou

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Chris Mann shares pulse-pounding stories that reveal the split-second decisions officers face daily. He recounts the night he came within a hair's breadth of shooting an innocent man during a miscommunicated call, describing how "I pulled that trigger all the way back to the second click" before the subject dropped his weapon. The weight of that near-tragedy didn't hit him until he was driving away, realizing how close he'd come to taking an innocent life.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Music All right guys.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Welcome back to another episode.
We've got a first for us today,so hopefully everything goes
according to plan.
We're doing a remote interviewtoday over the phone, so
hopefully we have no technicaldifficulties and no gremlins in
the system.
You know you can't feed themafter dark, Can't get them wet.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
This will be a fun one.
I'm looking forward to thisDoug's with us again, so he.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
We're just going to bring Doug on full time.
I think he's full time.
He put him on payroll.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
None of us make any money so it's easy to do, so
we're excited, doug tell us howyou all met so that way we can
before we introduce Chris.

Speaker 4 (01:18):
Well, when I got hired as the CSO, up at the
courthouse in London, they sendyou to training for 40 hours.
It's at FLETC, which is theFederal Law Enforcement Training
Center, down in what's the nameof that town, somewhere

(01:39):
Savannah, georgia.
It's in that area, somewhere.
Yeah, glanco Georgia, what Gl,yeah Georgia, what Glencoe
Georgia, glencoe or Glencoe,yeah but anyway, I got down
there and just happened to youknow, making, you know,

(02:00):
introducing ourselves and got totalking to Chris.
He'd stand out in the parkinglot in the evenings and I would,
too, Talk about things.
Kind of reminded me of the Kingof the Hill kind of guy.
Yep Just standing out in theparking lot talking.
Yep, but that's how I got toknow Chris, and he's just a
great guy.

(02:20):
We've done a lot of thingstogether while we was down there
, but I'll let Chris take itfrom there.
Great guy and uh.
We've done a lot of thingstogether while we was down there
and uh, but I'll let chris takeit from there so, so we've got
our guest tonight.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
He's coming all the way from baton rouge, louisiana.
It's christopher man.
Chris, how you doing, uh, doinggood, how you, we're all right,
we're here, we're kicking.
That's all we asked for.

Speaker 4 (02:44):
Above ground.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
brother, Tell us about how you got into the
military.
Tell us what all you did there.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Looking at his background here, he's been
serving the community or servingthe country since Genesis.
Yeah, I've been serving thecountry since Genesis.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (03:11):
Well, I come from Old Dale, louisiana.
That's my hometown, born andraised, and I graduated from Old
Dale High School in May of 75.
And shortly after that, 12 dayslater, I went active duty in
the United States Air Force as alaw enforcement specialist.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
So what made you choose the Air Force?

Speaker 5 (03:35):
Well, I just I found it where I wanted to be.
He was smart.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, he was smarter than everybody else.

Speaker 5 (03:56):
I didn't really want to see a lot of action like the
Marines or anything like that,you know.
Oh, I know.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
I get it, you're a smarter person than the bullet
sponges my father, uh.

Speaker 5 (04:11):
He retired out of the army as a lieutenant colonel
and uh my oldest brother.
He was in the army as militarypolice.
Uh, my, my daddy was a infantry.
He was in the World War two orwhen he would Jima yeah, I guess

(04:34):
the kind of the only one.
I got two brothers.
One of them said my oldest onewent in the Army and my
middle-aged brother he didn't gointo service, he chose to lead
back.
But, like I said, I went out toduty June the 12th of 75.

(04:55):
And actually June the 13th of75.
And I did my basic training lawenforcement training and combat
training at Lackland Air ForceBase in San Antonio, texas.
And when I finished up therewith training I was assigned to

(05:21):
Eglin Air Force Base, fortWalton Beach, florida, to Eglin
Air Force Base Fort Walton Beach, florida.
I served over there from 1975to 1978.
And after that I was supposedto go to Hickam Air Force Base,
hawaii, and I ended up in Kumsan.

(05:42):
Korea.
You got the short end of thestick on that one, didn't you?
747 took a wrong turn somewhere, it kept going.
Everybody that had been therefor like three years or more all
of a sudden started gettingorders to my not to leave to the

(06:06):
Greenland and place.
If you didn't want to benecessarily so, I went down to
personnel and I put in a overseepreference and I guess it was
about a month after that theysent me orders to Hickam Air
Force Base, Hawaii, but it was atwo-year tour and I only had a

(06:29):
year left in service.
So they told me if I wanted itI would have to extend the year.
So I extended that year toaccept the tour and two weeks
after I extended they canceledmy orders, that's the way they
do it, that they cancel myorders.

(06:50):
that's why they do it.
So a uh mccarnell told me thatuh, a married couple had bought
me out of the assignment, uh,and he told me to wait about two
weeks before I bought my stuffback.
I had already sold everything,getting ready to go to hawaii,
and, uh, he told me to waitabout two weeks because they
might reinstate my orders.
So I waited two weeks andnothing happened.
I didn't hear nothing.

(07:11):
So I went out and boughtprobably twice the stuff I had
before it was stereo equipmentand what have you and two days
later I get orders to KunsanKorea.
So I got to thinking you know,that assignment was a 12 month

(07:38):
assignment and I was going totake a 30 day leave, so that
would only leave me with 11months left in service.
My colonel told me that myextension was canceled as soon
as that Hickam assignment wascanceled.
So I said, well, I ain't gotnothing now, probably because

(08:01):
they'll probably keep theseorders too when they realize I
only got 11 months left inservice versus a 12-month tour.
And so time went on and I packedmy bags and I went to Kunzang
Korea.
And when I got over there Iwalked into personnel and I said
what's the deal here?
I said y'all going to give mean early out and separate me out

(08:24):
for the wife.
And uh, sergeant looked at me.
He said what do you mean earlyout?
I said this is a 12 month tour.
I only got 11 months left inservice.
He said no, sir, you got a yearand 11 months.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
Surprise they kept getting you.

Speaker 5 (08:43):
I said no, surprised they kept getting you.
I said no, I said I got 11months left.
He said yeah, but you extendedthe year.
I said yeah, that was to go toHawaii, where's the palm trees
at?
I said no.
I said seriously.
I said my colonel told me thatmy extension was canceled when

(09:09):
that Hickam Air Force Baseassignment was canceled.
He said sorry, charlie, don'twork like that.
And he said once you extend,you got 30 days to cancel the
extension yourself or you, youin for the duration of the
extension.
Uh, so yeah, he said well, you,probably.

(09:32):
You probably can get out of it.
Uh, considering thecircumstances, he said, but you
know, go through a lot of redtape doing it.
He said so basically yourchoices are you can stay over
here for a year and 11 monthsand we'll separate you and
you're free to fly home, or youcan Stay over here for 12 months

(09:54):
and go back to the states for11 months.
And so I left.
I left Kunsan Korea so fast.
I left in a helicopter.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
Laughter, laughter, laughter.
I left Kunsan Korea so fast, Ileft in a helicopter.

Speaker 5 (10:17):
That was probably one of the absolute worst places
I've ever been.
It's nasty and filthy and it'sa war zone.
Now, the capital of Korea,seoul, is really nice, but as

(10:37):
far as Kunsan, when I did my 12months over there, the Freedom
Bird what we call the freedombird was a 747.
It flew out of osun, korea, uh,which is, I guess, about a
two-hour helicopter ride, andone of my buddies was a, a
warrant officer, a helicopterpilot, and he was flying the

(11:01):
osun.
The same day I out processed andI said hold up, I'm gonna get
my double bag and I'm comingwith you.
And the freedom bird didn'tleave till like three days later
and he said uh, he had told methat.
He said the freedom bird don'tleave till three more days.
I said that's all right, I'llbe out of here, I'll be in Osa,

(11:24):
that's how I left Korea.
I flew with him to Osa andstayed in guest housing over
there until that 747 took ushome.
And then from there I come backto my hometown in old nail and

(11:55):
my middle-aged brother he wasthe instrument technician over
in Beaumont, texas at the timeand he had called me on a
Wednesday and asked me if Iwanted to go to work with him
and his boss wanted to hire me.
And so well, I had called himthat Wednesday.
He had told me that before Igot out of service and I called

(12:16):
him that Wednesday.
I said check with your bossagain and see if he wants to
still hire me.
I said I'll come down therethis weekend and start to work
Monday morning.
So he called me back and hesaid yeah, he still wants to
hire you.
And I said all right, and Isaid tell him I'll be there
Monday morning.
Well, thursday morning the chiefof police in my hometown.

(12:40):
He called me and told me thathe had lost three city officers
to the state police and said hewas short on people and he
needed somebody he could put onthe road right now.
And now I hadn't even been bythe police station or put in an
application or anything else atthat point he said I know you

(13:03):
just got out of the militarypolice.
You've been in there for fiveyears.
And he said I need somebody Ican put on the road right now.
And I said well, I don't know,chief.
I said I got a guaranteed jobstarting Monday morning.
He said where's that at?

(13:23):
I said in Beaumont, texas.
I'll be working with my brother.
And he said what do you knowabout IT man?
He said you've been in lawenforcement for the last five
years.
He said won't you come on andcome to work with us?
I said well, I don't know,steve, I'm going to have to

(13:44):
think about that, I said if Iwas to tell you, yes.
I said when I start.
When would I start?
He said tonight at 10 o'clock.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
That's quick, yeah.
Short notice for you.

Speaker 5 (13:59):
Well, that's pretty quick, sir.
I said man.
I said I don't have a uniform oranything else.
He said oh, don't worry aboutno uniform, son.
He said put on some blue jeansand I'll have a uniform shirt
for you when you get here.
And so I went on with thehometown police and kind of in

(14:20):
the blood then you know being inthe military police for five
years.
And so I was thinking, uh, olddale city police for two years,
from uh 1980 to 82, actually 83and then I got a uh and I had a

(14:42):
friend of mine that he hadstarted out with oakdale too and
he was working with a LafayetteSheriff's Office in Lafayette,
louisiana.
So one day he took a mentalpatient to Pineville, louisiana,
from Lafayette and he'd comethrough Oakdale, going back to

(15:02):
Lafayette, and he taught me intogoing to Lafayette.
So I went to LafayetteSheriff's Office in 83 and Pro
Division and I stayed down thereuntil 93.
We had some assignments duringthem.

(15:23):
10 years I've been in a coupleof hostage situations and
barricaded suspects and stufflike that.
I guess the worst night we everhad that I can remember was
though we was working the weekand it started off a Friday

(15:45):
night.
It was a friday, the 13th offull moon and a payday weekie,
oh no that's the worstcombination and uh, we started
off from the house running coldthat night, that friday night,
on emergency calls and we endedthe show Saturday morning still

(16:09):
running cold and day shift comeon running cold to relieve us
Saturday morning.
We had six actual shootingsthat night let me back up here.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
This is what county this is Lafayette.

Speaker 5 (16:25):
Oh gosh, let me back up here this.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
What county uh, this uh well, it's Lafayette, parish,
parish, yeah, they come, andthat what's the big city there
is that like well, the, the thebiggest city there is would be
Lafayette.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Okay, yeah what was what?
Was the population back then,is it?

Speaker 5 (16:44):
uh, I don't really know.
Uh, what was the populationback then?
I don't really know.
I would say maybe 50,000, alittle bit bigger it's not as
big as Baton Rouge, but it'sgetting that way now but it was
probably 50,000, 75,000,somewhere around there, I guess,

(17:06):
at the time.
But we was rocking and rollingfor the much-none-stop.
Like, I say, that Friday nightwe had six actual shootings
there for a minute.
We had a shooting call on holdthat we didn't have nobody to

(17:26):
respond to it.
Uh, so that saturday morningwhen I got off, I, I had, uh,
and I guess I was down on likesix reports and, um, so I, I, I
worked on my reports for alittle while before I went to

(17:47):
bed that Saturday morning andwent to sleep, woke up, did it
again Saturday night.
Saturday night was the samething all over his Friday night
and Sunday morning.
Come along, I was down aboutfive reports from Saturday night
.
Now I'm down to like 11 reports.

(18:08):
And so again Saturday morning Iworked on some of my reports
for a couple of hours before Iwent to sleep.
That Saturday morning, sundaymorning, and I said, well, this
is Sunday.
I said it'll be quiet tonight.
I said it'll be quiet tonight.
I said I'll finish all this atwork tonight.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
Dangerous word right there quiet.

Speaker 5 (18:34):
I went to bed and I guess it was about 12, 12, 30
noon.
Somebody was banging on my door.
Somebody was banging on my doorand I opened up the door and
the guy was hollering.
I lived in a trailer park atthe time.
The guy was hollering you thesheriff, you the sheriff.
I said, well, I'm not thesheriff but I work for him.

(18:58):
I said what you got?
He said we got a black guyholding two females hostage at
gunpoint over here and I said,yeah, that's about right.
We got a black guy holding twofemales hostage at gunpoint over
here and I said, yeah, that'sabout right.
I said hold on a minute.
I said I'll be with you in justa minute.

(19:33):
So I uh put my bulletproof veston and uh put my sheriff's
office jacket on and I calledthe office and uh, music
dispatcher.
Pretty well, that was uhdispatching.
I told him what I had.
I didn't know it at the timebecause I hadn't turned my radio
on at this point, but they hada rescue operation in progress
when I called and I told theradio operator what I had told

(19:57):
them.
I had a situation to give mesome backup, so I jumped in.
My unit called 10-8 en route andI was following the complainant
to where the suspect's housewas and he pulls up and stopped.
I pulled up and stopped behindhim.

(20:17):
I got out of my car and it wastrailers on both sides of the
road.
I said okay.
I said where's this guy live at?
I said where's this guy at, man?
And he pointed to the trailerright in front of my car.
He said he's right there.
I said well, thanks for thewarning buddy.

(20:43):
We went in his trailer, whichwas across the street, and the
hostage taker called thecomplainant on the phone and he
said you tell the sheriff'soffice that.
I said get out of here rightnow, I'll start killing people.

(21:06):
And I said, well, this is notgood.
And it was two, uh, mother anddaughter that was inside the
trailer as hostage and um, so I,I told the uh, I had my
portable radio with me.
I told the, I had my portableradio with me.
I told the day shift lieutenantwhat this guy said that he was

(21:32):
going to start killing people.
So what we did is I gave mythey had command post set up
going in the park and I gavethat guy my sheriff's office guy
, gave him the keys to my unitand I told him to go take it up

(21:53):
to the command post at theentrance to the trailer and turn
it over to one of the deputies.
Turn the car over to one of thedeputies out there and so
that's what he did to turn thecar over to one of the deputies
out there.
So that's what he did.
It took us six and a half hours.
The hostage negotiator finallytalked the guy out, but it took

(22:22):
us six and a half hours to dothat.
That's a long time to talk toanybody.
Yep, that it is, but it endedup well.
I mean, one of the hostages gotout the back door of the
trailer, the daughter did, andthen the hostage negotiator
talked him into letting themother go.

(22:45):
So it come out without anybodygetting hurt or killed, so that
was a good thing.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
That's the best resolution you can get.
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(23:33):
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(23:58):
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(24:18):
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Speaker 5 (25:03):
Yes, sir, Absolutely he is.
That's how that Sunday nightstarted.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
Then you went on shift.

Speaker 5 (25:11):
Wasn't going to be quiet.
I stayed with Lafayette for 10years and then I come down to
East Baton Rouge Sheriff'sOffice.
Well, I stayed actually withSheriff's's office until 85 and
then I took a sergeant positionwith bruce or city police and I

(25:37):
stayed with them until 93.
And then I come up with thateast baton rouge parish uh
sheriff's office.
They was paying a little bitbetter so I joined them.
Uh stayed in the uniform patrolfor the first five years.
Uh, second five years I did uhin traffic.
We uh.
I've seen some excitement alsowith east baton rouge when I was

(26:01):
in uniform patrol.
Uh, when I was in uniform patroluh, one one of them comes to
mind, my mind back in lafayette.
When I was with lafayette uh,they called me out a roll call
one night on a call and uh, thefuel pumps was outside and right
outside the building where wedo roll call at.

(26:24):
So I was training the deputy uhguy by the name of glenn I
don't remember his last name,but that was his first night
full time in the unit and theycalled us out of roll called the
uh, the subdivision down therein lafayette called orangewood,

(26:44):
orange Orangewood subdivision.
It was just a routine speak todeputy call.
So I filled my car up before Ileft the building with where the
roll call was and we took offand, heading for Orangewood
Subdivision, glenn startedtelling me about it.

(27:09):
He rode quite a few hours withthe Reserve Division.
He started telling me about thedifferent calls he had been on
and this and that.
I said well, that's good, atleast it's not like your very
first night in the unit, youknow.
And uh, you've been ondifferent calls and what have

(27:32):
you.
Well, by the time I said that,they called me back and said uh,
disregard that previous call.
Said we need you en route.
It was the same subdivision weneed you en en route to such and
such Orangewood Boulevard.
That we got a rape in progressand your victim is 11 years old.

(27:56):
I said okay, en route, glennsaid well, this ought to be an
arrest and he said I've neverbeen on one of these before.
I said yeah, it might be.
We took off lots of sirens andwhen I got within hearing

(28:22):
distance of Orangewoodwoodsubdivision I cut my siren off
and when I got within visualdistance of it I shut my lights
off and, uh, turn into thesubdivision.
It was like in the 800 block.
I probably could still take youto the house to this day.
Uh, still take you to the houseto this day.

(28:44):
It was in the 800 block and,like I say, I had all my lights
off.
We had brake keel switches andeverything and had brake keel
lights on and I got down toabout the 700 block when I
turned off.
Orangewood is off of JohnsonStreet, so when I turned off of

(29:05):
Johnson Street on OrangewoodBoulevard, I've seen headlights
turn behind me, a vehicle comingin behind me, and I got down to
about 700 block and stopped.
It was a pickup truck, stoppedbehind me and a female jumped

(29:27):
out of the passenger side andsaid that's, that's.
Uh.
My sister in the house said hername's rachel.
Call her by her name and I saidokay.
I said, is she in?
Is anybody else in the house byuh, besides her?
She said no, she's the only onein the house.
I said, all right.
I said y'all just stay righthere behind my car until, uh,

(29:49):
until we get everythingstraightened out.
So we uh, me and glennapproached the the house.
Uh, we had backup coming, butbackup was about, uh, I don't
know, probably about 20 milesaway.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Now in that area was it, was it sectored?
Off in the parish.
Did you have sectors that youwere responsible for, or was it
just kind of first come, firstserve?

Speaker 5 (30:15):
No, we had different sectors.
We had I don't remember exactlyI think like 8th sector.
It was divided up between NorthLafayette, south Lafayette and
Central Lafayette.
I guess you would describe thisas Central Lafayette.

(30:41):
Johnson Street is kind of thedividing line between north and
south, and so we go up to thehouse and it's a.
It's a open carport.
It had a car underneath thecarport and the engine was warm,
the hood was warm.
So we walk around the housefirst to make sure it wasn't no

(31:04):
forced entry or anything likethat.
Come back under the carport,the door was on the left hand
side and on the right hand sidethey had a kitchen window, uh
and the, uh, the, the curtainswas open where you could see
inside the house.
So I was standing to the leftof the door in case somebody

(31:27):
shot through the door orsomething.
And glenn was standing to myleft.
Now I was, I was used to beingby myself.
Uh, that glenn was.
He was the first, one of thefirst deputies I trained.
So I was looking through thiswindow and I was knocking on the

(31:48):
door at the same time.
And I knocked on the door and Ihollered, rachel, and I didn't
get no response and I knocked onthe door the second time and I
hollered Rachel again and Ididn't get no response.
And I knocked on the door thethird time and hollered
sheriff's office and uh, aboutthat time I seen this guy with a

(32:11):
12-gauge shotgun walkingtowards this window from inside
the house.
Well, the first thing hit mymind ain't nobody supposed to be
in there but her.
So I jumped across the hood ofthe car that was under the
carport and glenn, glenn, seenthe shotgun about the same time

(32:35):
I did, and he hollered gun.
Well, when he hollered gun, Iwas on the other side of the car
and uh, so he jumped the hoodbehind me and this guy, I come
to the door and he opened up thedoor and he started coming down
with that shotgun.
And I was behind the hood ofthat car.
I had a we was carrying 357 andmagnum, then old six shooter,

(33:00):
and, uh, when he started comingdown with that shotgun, I
started pulling the trigger byit.
I learned that him, thesheriff's office, dropped the
gun and he couldn't see nothingbut my head.
I mean, I had my body behindthe wheel.
Well, and he started comingdown and kept coming down and

(33:27):
I'll pull that trigger if you,if y'all familiar with that with
the old six shooters smith andwesson, when you start pulling
that trigger back, it's got twoclicks on it before it fires.
And I pull that trigger all theway back to the second click.
And I mean at that point, ifyou breathe on that trigger it's

(33:49):
going to go off.
And when I got to that point,when I got to that second click,
luckily he threw that gun down,so I eased the hammer back down
.
He was trying to tell mesomething, something, but I
wasn't giving him enough time totell me I was interested in him
dropping that shotgun.
Uh, but what he was?

(34:11):
He was trying to tell me thathe was the, the racial's brother
, and uh, so what it was.
What it ended up being is thegirl was home by herself and
somebody called over there andasked if Christine was there.

(34:32):
Christine was the older sisterthat was in the truck and she
said, no, she's not here.
And he said, well, I'm going tocome over and help you and hung
up the phone.
She's not here and he said,well, I'm going to come over and
help you and hung up the phone.
So she called her mother andthe mother called the brother

(34:52):
and the brother called the daddyand by the time it got to the
sheriff department it was a rapein progress so through the
telephone game information gotthe brother shot gets more
dramatic as it goes on.

Speaker 4 (35:06):
I've noticed so through the telephone game
information gets sent.
It gets more dramatic as itgoes on.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
I've noticed that that happens quite frequently
between the public and dispatch.
By the time it actually gets tothe officer, the information
may or may not be accurate orbigger than what it is.

Speaker 5 (35:21):
So it turned out it was a brother.
He kept him at gunpoint andshowed him and brought him in.
He had his wallet in hisdressing drawer in his bedroom.
I said you better make surethat's the only thing you pull
out, Because it's only going tobe the last thing you pull out.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
That was a close call .
There.
There's a butt-puckering momentfor both of you.

Speaker 5 (35:50):
You know all that.
I'll tell you.
What all that bothered me iswhen I got in my car and started
driving away from the scene.
That's when it really got to me.
That's when it really got to meRealizing how close I come to
killing somebody innocent.

(36:11):
But yeah, that's part of thejob.
Luckily it didn't end like that.
We started driving away and Istarted shaking a little bit and
Ben said man, I thought you wasfixing to shoot that guy.

(36:31):
And I said well, I thought youprobably shot him.
He said no, dude, I was waitingon you to shoot him.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
Well, thanks man.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
I was waiting on me to shoot man.
Yeah, that's.
That's never something you wantto.
You want to hear with yourbackup.

Speaker 5 (36:57):
I was waiting on you how long you can stay with it I
told him, you know, I told himdon't, don't wait on me.
I said if you think you'rejustified in shooting, shoot
yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:07):
It's a good lesson, did he stick?

Speaker 5 (37:09):
with it.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
Did he stay with policing?

Speaker 5 (37:13):
Yeah, yeah, he stayed with it as far as I know.
Like I said, I left it had beena good while, I guess a year or
so after that, and went toBaton Rouge and but as far as I
know, he, he, he stayed with it.
Um, east Baton Rouge, uh, I'veseen some action down here.

(37:35):
Uh, there again, I've been in acouple of barricaded uh,
barricaded gunman situations, acouple of hostage situations,
dedicated government situations,couple of hostage situations
with uniformed patrol.
Like I say, I stayed with themfor five years to start with and
for traffic five years afterthat now doing military, police

(38:02):
and then civilian police was it?

Speaker 2 (38:03):
was it an odd?
Transition to go from policeand military to police and
civilians.

Speaker 5 (38:09):
Well, not really.
I mean, back then you had lawenforcement, then you had
security police.
I was in the law enforcementside, security police.
All they did was, uh, guardedthe?
Uh runways.
Uh, basically, um, they guardedthe runways uh for the, for the

(38:34):
fighter jets and stuff likethat.
Uh, if you had an installationthat had nuclear weapons, they
guarded that.
Basically, we was base police,which is just like city police.
You're responding to trafficaccidents, domestic disturbances

(38:55):
, burglars, everything you seewith the city police.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
So it's all the same calls for service, just on a
different kind of campus.

Speaker 5 (39:06):
Right right, you own a federal property, a military
installation, versus the city orcounty or whatever.
But it's the same type of callsyou would get in city, police
or county.
You know I never really had any.

(39:33):
I've never really been involvedmilitary police, I've never
really been involved instandoffs and stuff like that.
That rarely happens on amilitary installation.
It does happen now.
Back then it didn't.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
You get your fair share of domestics and fights at
the E-clubs and stuff like that.

Speaker 5 (40:01):
Not that I was ever involved, but still and stuff
like that Not that I was everinvolved, but still we used a
non-commissioned officers club,NCO club and officers clubs on
the base and every now and thenyou'll have fights like that at
the bar, you know, and have torespond to that.

(40:22):
The only I guess the onlyserious thing that I got into
really was uh in in korea we haduh I was base police but we had
a division uh called townpatrol and uh they patrolled uh
the town, uh for for militarypersonnel mainly, and they had

(40:47):
our office downtown in uh in thevillage and they had uh our
guys uh air force lawenforcement and they had uh uh
82nd airborne military policearmy together down there.
All of them guys with 82ndairborne I believe was Black

(41:13):
Belts and Karate.
They had a total of seven ofthem combined Air Force Police,
a total of seven of them, uh,combined air air force police
and the military police.
And one night they called forbase police backup.

(41:35):
So I, I knew, when they calledfor base police back backup, I
knew they would.
They uh, it wasn't a fun time,we loved them.
We loaded a pickup truck fullof uh, uh military police and uh

(42:01):
law enforcement uh side andresponded down there and why
they didn't shoot this guy, Idon't know.
They should have uh, but when Ipulled up down there it was
several officers laying on theground, uh, he had, and one guy

(42:21):
standing there and I got out ofmy truck with that M16.
And when I started getting outof my truck he got down in the
karate stance and I'm looking atseven on the ground, hurt.
And when he got down to thatkarate stance I had him at

(42:46):
gunpoint with that M16.
I said, partner, I'll cut youin half.
Laughter, laughter, laughter.
That's how we arrested him.
But how that started?
It was one of our sergeants thatwas walking by himself.
He had went to get him a packof cigarettes at the store and

(43:10):
he was walking back to theoffice and he run into this dude
.
He was a military guy, but hewas a karate expert guy.
And uh, but he was karateexpert and this guy was drunk
and causing a disturbance in thestreets.
Uh, so normally it would be oneair force and one 82nd airborne

(43:32):
walking together.
But uh, he was by himselfbecause, like I say, he was just
going to get a pack ofcigarettes and come back.
And uh, so he runs into thisguy and he tells him look,
partner.
He said won't you, won't you dome a favor and get on the bus
and go back to base?
They had a bus that run inbetween the base and town back

(43:53):
and forth.
And he said won't you give me a, do me a favor?
And uh, get on the bus and goback to base.
Said you too drunk to be outhere on the street.
And he said elf, you.
And uh, the sergeant said, lookman.
He said I'm not actually.
No, no problem.
He said just get on the bus andgo back to base.

(44:15):
And dude told him again elf, youand sergeant reached for his
nightstick and before he couldpull it out, that guy kicked him
off a roundhouse.
He almost killed him.
He was in critical condition.

(44:39):
They had to motivate him backto the state.
Wow, yeah, he put him.
Uh, he, he was in criticalcondition.
They had a matter of a matterof back to the state.
But uh, he laid all seven ofthem out there.
I guarantee you I would haveshot him I ain't getting knocked
out.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
That's called wisdom, right there yeah.

Speaker 5 (45:03):
I've seen in this two or three police officers laying
on the ground.
Your days are numbered.
I'm not fighting you, that'sfor sure.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
I've seen what can happen.
I'm not taking that chance, wow.

Speaker 5 (45:18):
East Baton Rouge.
Like I said, we had some actiondown here too Several hostage
negotiations, barricaded women.
I was in one shooting one night.
That was a pretty bad night.

(45:38):
It was a state trooper thatclocked this car speeding and
this happened about, I guess,probably 50, 60 miles out of
Baton Rouge, down below a placecalled Covington.
And he clocks this car speedkeep in mind, this is before the

(46:00):
mobile data tournaments andcomputers in the cars and what
have you.
So this trooper clocks his carspeed and he pulls up behind him
and runs the plate forrestoration stolen and the plate

(46:20):
comes back to a brown pony atBonneville and he sees a blue
Honda Accord.
So he said well, somethingain't right here, you know.
So he turns on his lights andwhen he turns on his lights, the
the passenger leans out thewindow and starts shooting,
shooting at him and the driverputs it to the floor and takes

(46:43):
off and uh, they come, they.
They come down interstate 55 toi-12.
And uh, when they, when theygot to i-12, a state state
trooper had the entrance rampblocked off and he hit his car

(47:04):
in the front end and knocked himout of the road and kept going.
They got on I-12 coming intoBaton Rouge.
Of course we didn't know all ofthis had happened.
But they got on I-12 cominginto baton rouge and uh, uh, I
tried to trailer driver and callthat trooper on the on the cb.

(47:27):
He said look buddy.
He said I'm out here on i-12,probably about two, three miles
ahead of y'all.
He said y'all, y'all, y'allneed any help stopping this old
boy, you just let me know.
And that trooper says when yousee us coming, stop him.
He said I don't care how youstop him, stop him.

(47:48):
And that trooper said they weredoing 125 miles an hour in the
left lane and that, and theyseen that tractor trailer in the
right lane and right beforethat that the violator got to
him.
That tractor trailer pulled infront of him, uh, in that left

(48:08):
lane, and he said that guyslammed on the brakes and slowed
down about 85 miles an hour andhe jumped off in the median and
passed that tractor trailer inthe median and come up and never
look back.
Well, they come down.
They come down the baton rouge.
And coming into baton rouge yougot, uh, the the amy river

(48:30):
bridge, uh, it's a two lane eachway, two lane east, two lane
west.
A state trooper had that bridgeblocked off and he did the same
thing to him.
He hit him in the front end andkept coming and um, so I had
come out of a place calledForest Park and, uh, not too far

(48:53):
, they called uh Baton Rouge forfor assistance and um, so I I
got on I-12 and I was sittingunder the the Millerville
overpass, which is the next exitdown, and well, two exits down
actually and I seen him.

(49:14):
I was underneath the overpassand I seen him.
I was underneath the overpassand I seen him coming in my
rearview mirror and I guess theguy saw the reflective signs of
my car and he turned off ontoMillerville.
So he goes down Millerville.
Of course we can't turn aroundbecause it's a retaining wall in

(49:34):
between the east and westboundlane.
So I took off to the next exitdown, which is sherwood farce,
and um, that guy had went downmillerville to uh old hammond
highway, which old hammondhighway parallels i-12, and he
almost hit one of our trafficunits head on at the

(49:58):
intersection of Old Hammond andMillerville.
So we get down to SherwoodForest and we take a right
heading towards them, get to OldHammond and we turn right
heading towards them and me anda state trooper had passed me
when I was on I-12.
And we got down on Old Hammondand highway.

(50:22):
We set up a roadblock.
Uh, I had my car on the rightright lane and he had his on the
left lane and we down below ourcars with, uh, with our guns.
He had a shotgun and I had a.
We was carrying a 10 millimetersmith and weston at the time

(50:43):
and that's they started to stopsomebody
they started coming at us andstarted shooting out the window
and we, I fired twice at thedriver and, uh, that trooper, he
unloaded with that 12 gaugedouble op buck.
Uh, he fired four rounds at thecar with that double op buck

(51:05):
and we, uh, we knew he wasn'tgoing to stop.
Uh, he, he tried to go aroundthe driver's side of the
trooper's car first of all, butit was about a six foot ditch
there.
And when he seen the ditch, heheaded for the opening in
between my car and thattrooper's car, which, uh, we
didn't, we didn't leave himenough room to get by us.

(51:27):
Uh, and he hit the driver'sside of my unit and took the
whole driver's side off.
I didn't know it at the timebecause we had jumped off the
highway.
And when he come through us andthe units come through, I

(51:50):
started running for my unit.
I wasn't jumping in andenjoying the pursuit.
I got to the driver's side andthere wasn't no driver's side.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
They charge him with theft of a vehicle.
That way too.

Speaker 5 (52:06):
Theft of a driver's side, it was just all glass and
metal.
That trooper come over to meand he said I didn't know who
the trooper was at the time.
He said that son of a bitchtried to kill us.
And.
I said, yeah, tell me, tell me.

(52:26):
And so he got out, he went intohis unit and put his shotgun up
and he called his lieutenant.
The lieutenant, which is theywere from another troop, they
weren't even from the batonrouge troop.
Uh, he called his lieutenantand he said hey, lou.
He said you know that pursuitwe had going on.

(52:48):
I couldn't hear what thelieutenant was saying.
I all I could hear was thetrooper and uh, he said man.
He said we got a hell of a dealdown here in Baton Rouge.
He said me and this deputy.
He said I don't know who thisdeputy is.
He said we never met each other, but he said I guarantee you

(53:10):
we'll never forget each other.
We had a roadblock set up andhe said that's what we're going
to come through and try to killboth of us.
He said uh.
He shook his head.
He said yeah, yeah.
He said both of them shot athim when he come through.

(53:31):
And he said they still came andthey got about.
Uh, I guess another, maybe fivemiles and the car was so tore up
that he finally had to stop.
But it ended up being thedriver was a 20-year-old Los

(53:52):
Angeles Crips street gang memberand the passenger was a
17-year-old wannabe.
He wasn't actually a gamemember, but he was in the
initiation phase of becoming one.
But the real reason they wasrunning was they had robbed a

(54:14):
store in Ascension Parish, whichis probably about 20 miles out
of Baton Rouge, and they shotthe clerk.
We didn't know all this whenthe pursuit was going on.
We found out all thatafterwards.
That's the real reason thatthing was running.

(54:37):
They probably won't seesunlight again.
They they were charged with uhseveral counts of uh attempted
first degree murder of policeand uh attempted murder of that
that cashier and uh arm robberyand a bunch of bunch of charges.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Wow and no seatbelt and no seatbelt.
Yeah, no seatbelt Was there alot of gang activity in that
area at that time.

Speaker 5 (55:10):
Not really.
It was unusual for somebody tobe down here from LA.
We had one black session downin baton rouge when that was
back when uh, the crips and thebloods was real big uh game
fighting in la.
And, like I said, we got ablack session down here in baton

(55:32):
rouge and they, they waswanting to beat the crips and
the Bloods also, they calledthemselves the Crips and the
Bloods.
They would fight amongst oneanother, kill one another, shoot
one another and stuff like that.
It did happen.

(55:54):
But that was our own clientele.
There wasn't nobody from LA.
You know, like I said, that waskind of unusual for that to
happen.
I guess it was just out of joyriding trying to make that dude
part of the game.

Speaker 4 (56:15):
I guess he passed his initiation phase with that
little ordeal.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
He's a blood member or a crypt member in prison,
though.

Speaker 5 (56:24):
Yeah, I don't think they'll be out for quite some
time, if they get out at all.
They luckily didn't lose theirlives.
The two rounds that I fired oneround went through the hood of
the car, went through thefirewall into the car, and the

(56:46):
other round went through thewindshield and went through the
driver's headrest.
Wow, so the driver was lowriding.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
He saw that hand cannon shot gun.

Speaker 5 (57:01):
He got low so that 10 millimeter was so powerful.
Actually it was, uh, it wasbreaking parts inside the gun.
That's why we quit using it anduh, but uh, yeah, that's what
that 10 millimeter works, uh andum, like I said, they, they,

(57:27):
they was very lucky, theysurvived that.
Um, but uh, uh, yeah, we had uh, I wasn't working, but we I'm
sure y'all heard about it upthere in 2016.
We had an ambush on lawenforcement.

(57:49):
We lost two city policeofficers and three sheriff's
deputies.
I remember that, I remember,yeah, police officers and three
sheriff's deputies.
I remember that, I remember.

Speaker 3 (57:59):
Yeah, that was real close to the time when the
Dallas those guys in Dallas gotambushed too, wasn't it All
during that time frame?

Speaker 5 (58:10):
That was Alex Sterling deal.
The police had killed AlexSterling and that's, that's
that's what caused all that.
Uh, this guy that uh initiatedthis ambush on law enforcement
down here in baton rouge.
He was from missouri and hedrove all the way from missouri

(58:35):
to to carry that out.
Wow, but all of them guys gotkilled down there.
I worked with every one of them.
Wow, that was a bad deal.
We had another officer justdied today city police motor

(58:57):
officer.
He passed away today.
A black guy intentionally runover him on his motorcycle and,
uh, that happened a couple ofweeks ago and he had been in
intensive care ever since.
Uh, they amputated both of hislegs trying to save him and lost

(59:23):
his life today on it.

Speaker 4 (59:26):
Was he retired?
Was he still the police?

Speaker 5 (59:30):
No, he was active.
He was on his way home from ashift on his motorcycle, wow, on
his motorcycle, wow, and thisguy, like this guy,
intentionally, intentionally hithim.
Uh.
He admitted, uh, hatred for lawenforcement, yeah, that that it

(59:51):
is uh, but um, it's been quitea ride, uh.
Like I said, I stayed with VBREast Baton Rouge Parish
uniformed patrol.
Five years traffic, five yearsTraffic.
We didn't really see that muchaction.

(01:00:14):
We saw a lot of fatalityaccidents.
I was on the fatality teamAnytime anybody got killed.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
We had to go out and reconstruct it.

Speaker 5 (01:00:28):
Reconstruction had to go out and reconstruct it and
all that good stuff.
After that I went on with StatePolice Department of Public
Safety and I spent six and ahalf years with them.
I retired with Department ofPublic Safety.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
I guess you were with them when Hurricane Katrina
happened.
Then huh.

Speaker 5 (01:01:00):
Yeah, I was in Lafayette.
Probably well, we had in 16, itwasn't a hurricane, but it was
a real bad rainstorm thatflooded Baton Rouge hurricane,

(01:01:24):
but it was a real bad rainstormthat flooded Baton Rouge.
It flooded Baton Rouge.
It didn't flood where my houseis, but probably 90% of Baton
Rouge flooded and that was in2016.
Uh, I've, I've been through ahurricane.
Uh, hurricane, andrew in thehour.

(01:01:44):
Yeah, andrew, I was inlafayette when that happened and
I was in a, a one-ton high-risewater vehicle vehicle in case

(01:02:06):
the water come up we was 10-8for 30 hours.
That was the one that wentthrough, like Miami, then up
right, yeah, yeah, it hit.
It hit New Iberia pretty hard.
I knew I'd be.
I guess it's about 10, 15 milessouth of Lafayette and, like I

(01:02:26):
said, that was the longest I'veprobably been 10-8.
I was 10-8 for 30 hoursstraight.
Wow, that is a long shift, along, long shift.
And, uh, we got winds up to, uh,I guess we got winds in the
life of the uh, about 130 milesan hour, wow, uh, yeah, and I

(01:02:50):
was patrolling until trees andpower lines and stuff like that
started falling and uh, whenthat happened, I found me a big
cement parking lot and, uh, Iwent out and sat in the middle
of that parking lot and I guesswe had been 10-8 for probably 20
hours then and I had, I had myarm on my armrest and I had my

(01:03:14):
head, uh, I had, you know, I Iwas resting my head on my hand
and half asleep, and a gust ofwind hit that truck and knocked
my arm off that armrest.
I looked up and my whole truckwas rocking and I was.

(01:03:35):
I got my second wind when thathappened.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
Gosh, now was there looting and things like that.
Afterwards, no, not here.

Speaker 5 (01:03:50):
That happened a lot in New Orleans, but down here we
didn't have too much of that.
New Orleans flooded duringKatrina and Gestalt and it was a
lot of looting going on downthere.
I mean, the police was fightinga losing battle down there and

(01:04:13):
some of the police even turnedon the dark side and, yeah, they
started looting themselves.
I guess, they were well-joined.

Speaker 4 (01:04:26):
Can't beat them, join them.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
Turned into pirates.

Speaker 5 (01:04:32):
But yeah, that was a bad time for New Orleans.
We didn't have that much loothere in.
Here in Baton Rouge it uh, andI mean everything was pretty
much peaceful, uh, except forthe flooding, you know.
Um, no, that was, that wasabout it.
Um, but uh, all in all, I guessit's been a good ride.

(01:04:58):
I I've never had to fatallykill anybody or, uh, you know
anything like that.
So, um, yeah, I, I wouldn't goback on the street now, nothing
in the world.
They couldn't, they couldn'tpay me enough to be be back on
the street yeah, they don't payus enough either.

(01:05:27):
It's just no respect for lawenforcement.
No more, it's a whole differentworld.

Speaker 4 (01:05:34):
I agree with that.

Speaker 5 (01:05:36):
Yeah, yeah, it's been quite a ride.
It sounds like it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:46):
You've had a good long career.
Now you're still doing somework with them.

Speaker 4 (01:05:50):
You're in a similar position, but don't have to deal
so much with the public.

Speaker 5 (01:05:56):
Right, yeah, I've been to too many law enforcement
funeral.
Uh, I hope I don't have to goto another one we've been
through two and I hope that's.

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
That's two more than I wanted to go through, so I
hope we don't go through anymore.

Speaker 5 (01:06:17):
Yeah, yeah it no, it, uh, it it happens uh,
especially down here.
You know, uh, one year uh Idon't remember exactly what it
was, it was several years ago wehad a deputy sheriff killed
Kanjabaho Parish, and they wasescorting the body from the

(01:06:44):
church to the cemetery.
And they come into a real badstorm on their way to the
cemetery, I remember that, and atree fell across.
One of them units and it wastwo deputies in there.
He killed one of them.
That one was in criticalcondition.
They had to medically retire.

(01:07:09):
But I mean, there you go again.
That was escort one alone.
You know what a crazy way to go.

Speaker 4 (01:07:18):
Yeah, I remember that .
Yeah, that's just freakaccident right there.

Speaker 5 (01:07:26):
Yeah, that it is, it sure is.
But.
I'm like I said, I've seen myshare.
I've seen more than I wanted tosee.

Speaker 4 (01:07:39):
Yeah, we all have, that's for sure.
You come through unscathed.
Looks like other than probablythe mental stuff of it, but
physically you're doing good.
That's a good thing.

Speaker 5 (01:07:53):
Yeah, I've never seriously been injured or
anything like that, never beenshot, thank God.
Like I said, it's been a ride.

Speaker 4 (01:08:13):
You never did pull no pranks on nobody.

Speaker 5 (01:08:21):
Our own officers.
We used to.
I mean we used to.
I'm sure y'all remember theBaby Moon hug caps and stuff
like that the police had backwhen we was driving Dodge
Deppamats and Plymouth GrandJets.
Yeah, I remember that that wasin the early 80s.

(01:08:49):
Yeah, we used to put rocksinside the hubcaps we do that to
our shift lieutenant and uh,you know, we we'd uh jacked one
time we jacked up the back endof his car where the tires were
just touching the ground itwasn't really touching, you know
and we went in and told him wehad a real bad call and he was

(01:09:16):
kind of like you know, and herun out there.
He was parked in the Sallyportthis was in Lafayette he run out
there and jumped in thatDiplomat and cranked it up and
put it in drive and got on theaccelerator and it was just
sitting there, stuff like that,you know.

(01:09:49):
Um, we had uh, this was in themilitary we had one guy that was
bad about leaving, leaving thekeys in his unit.
When we get to the scene he'dleave the keys in the unit
running an unlock and we had a.
We was on a burglar alarm oneday, one night and he pulled up
there and left his unit runningand left it unlocked and we got

(01:10:10):
in and drove around to the backof the building and he come out
and got his car.
That's happened numerous timeshere.

Speaker 4 (01:10:21):
I was going to say, that must be a pretty common
prank among officers.
We've done that to.
Richie a lot.

Speaker 5 (01:10:33):
We started wondering where his car was.
I don't know.
Partner, you better call thelieutenant and tell him
somebody's car.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
That's funny, yeah, buddy.

Speaker 5 (01:10:48):
Yeah, we've heard things like that, you know, not
on the general public, mainlyamongst us, oh that's where,
that's the best, that's thememories.
You got to let the public along.

Speaker 3 (01:11:03):
They're sensitive.

Speaker 4 (01:11:04):
They are sensitive.

Speaker 5 (01:11:09):
But yeah, I mean I enjoyed it, it's been a nice
time.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
Would you go back and do it all over again?

Speaker 5 (01:11:19):
Negative, negative, negative.

Speaker 4 (01:11:23):
Even if times were different than what they are now
.

Speaker 5 (01:11:26):
Yeah, like I said, I lost a lot of good friends along
the way.

Speaker 4 (01:11:34):
Yes.

Speaker 5 (01:11:38):
And the way things are right now with the world, I
wouldn't do it.
I wouldn't do it, no more.

Speaker 3 (01:11:44):
You'd have went on to Texas, went into IT.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:11:49):
I've known what I knew.
Now that dang chief.

Speaker 3 (01:11:57):
Listen this has been a fun podcast.
Now we want to come down there.
We got to come down and visityou.

Speaker 5 (01:12:08):
Y'all are welcome anytime.
Man Pack your bags and comehome.

Speaker 3 (01:12:12):
I'm down, I'm down.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
We got to find us a good hole in the wall where we
can get some good yeah, somecraw, get some good crawfish.

Speaker 3 (01:12:21):
I tell you Louisiana is the only southern state I've
not been to, so I have to go.
I've got to check that one offmy list.
That's it.
Other than that I've been toeverything except, you know,
minus, like Montana and stuff Istill got to get to, but I've,
of all the southern states,that's the only one.
Really I was close and I shouldhave went.

(01:12:44):
I was just trying to get hometoo quick.

Speaker 5 (01:12:48):
I drove cross country for a year and got the trailer.
We was running about 600-500miles a week, jeez.
We'd stay out for five weeksstraight and come in for one
week and back out for five,another five weeks, but the

(01:13:12):
first four months I had been inall 48 states.
Wow, the first four months.
So that I mean that was good.
My trucking career didn't workout real well either.

Speaker 3 (01:13:31):
You never did make it to Hawaii then.

Speaker 5 (01:13:35):
I found out real quick.
Truck driving wasn't my career.
The I found out real quicktruck driving wasn't my career.
The first guy I started runningwith him and I was good to go.
This was in 03, 04, between 03and 04.

(01:13:56):
He liked NASCAR and he likedlaw enforcement and I love
NASCAR and so he was interestedin hearing some of my law
enforcement stories and you know.
So we got along great and we Ithink it was in February we was

(01:14:24):
going to Los Angeles and we hada load to deliver in Los Angeles
and then, after we deliveredthat load, we was going to
Daytona Beach, florida, and hewas in good with the dispatcher.
So the dispatcher hooked us upwith a load out of Daytona Beach

(01:14:48):
, so we was going to go watchthe Daytona 500.
And after the race we was goingto go and pick up that load.
Well, we was on our way to LAand I was driving coming through
Nevada and the owner he wassleeping in the sleeper and

(01:15:15):
during the night I hit somethingin the interstate.
I don't know if it was a pieceof steel or what it was, but
when I hit it I felt the tirehit it.
After that the steering wheelwould shake.
It'd shake for five seconds andthen it'd drive straight a mile

(01:15:36):
and then it would shimmy again.
I woke him up and he prettywell knew the United States
pretty good.
I woke him up, a guy by thename of Ricky.
I woke him up, I said Ricky.
I said I'm sorry to wake you up, man.
I said but there's somethingwrong with this truck.
I said the steering wheel isshimmying.
And he looked up, see where weare, wheel shimmy.

(01:16:04):
And uh, he looked up, see wherewe are.
He said well, when you get down, uh, uh, mile post 140.
He says uh, pull over.
He says we'll check it out.
He said they got a truck stopthere.
We'll, we'll check and we'llcheck the truck out.
I said all right.
So we pulled that truck stop.
Then we checked the entirefront end of that truck uh, tire
rise, the, the tires,everything.
And we couldn't find nothingwrong with it.

(01:16:25):
So we refilled.
We had, uh, 250 gallon tanks,one on the side.
We refilled the tanks and gotback on the interstate, took off
and he got back in the sleeperto go to sleep and we was kind
of running, running behind timea little bit.
Uh, he said.
Uh, he said if it startsshimmying again when you get

(01:16:48):
down a mile post 120, it'sanother truck.
Stop down there.
He said, pull over and we'llhave a mechanic check it.
I said okay, he said if itdoesn't shimmy, he said between
now and 120, just keep rolling.
I said all right.
So we got back on the interstate, I took off and between 140 and

(01:17:09):
120, it never shimmied.
I said well, I'll keep rolling.
So I kept on rolling and I gotdown to the 105, 15 miles
further and I had the cruisecontrol set at 75.
That's what the speed limit was.
And I pulled out in the leftlane and I passed the car and as

(01:17:30):
I was coming back into my lane,that driver's side of the
steering tire blew out.
And uh, when it blew out, I goton the brakes and that when I
hit the brakes that that truckstarted swerving from from lane
to lane all over the interstate.
So I got off the, I got off thebrakes and about that time he

(01:17:52):
was up in the cab with me, thewhen that tire blew up.
The explosion woke him up, so hegot in the front cab and he
knew exactly what happened.
He said you blew.
He said you blew a steer tire.
He said, uh, you stay off thebrakes and let the let the truck
coast to a stop.
And I said, okay.

(01:18:12):
He said, as soon as you can geton the side of the, pop the air
brakes.
I said, all right.
So I guess it took probably amile and a half and I got it on
the side of the interstate,popped the air brakes, we jumped
out of it and what happened wasthat driver's side tire.
Uh, the spark from the rimcaught that tire on fire and

(01:18:36):
when that center belt come offof that tire it wrapped around
the driver's side frame railswhere the fuel filters was
mounted and it caught the fuelfilters on fire and we hit it
with a fire steamer.
We got the fire steamer and weopened and opened up with that
fire steamer and that the firesteamer didn't phase it when

(01:19:03):
when that fire steamer didn'tphase it.
I threw that fire steamer in themedian and I took off running
for the back of the truck, hadmy cell phone calling 9-1-1 and,
uh, ricky was trying to getback in the truck.
Pretty much everything we ownedwas inside that truck.
He was trying to get backinside that truck.

(01:19:26):
I told Ricky.
I said don't worry about thatshit, man, that shit can be
replaced.
This truck's looking.
Good that that shit can bereplaced.

(01:19:46):
This truck's looking.
We opened up the driver's doorto get in and when he did,
flames was coming through thefloorboard and so he run around
on the passenger side that, onthe passenger side of that
sleeper.
It had an escape hatch on itand he opened up that escape
hatch and we had a both of ourovernight bags sitting right
there by that door.
He opened up that escape hatchand grabbed our overnight bags

(01:20:08):
and threw them out and he tookoff running for the back of the
trailer where I was and nosooner than he got to the back
of that trailer, the driver'sside tank blew, oh.
And no sooner than he got tothe back of that trailer, the
driver's side tank blew, oh, andI guess it was about probably
30 seconds after that thepassenger side tank blew, so

(01:20:29):
that was right at 300 gallons ofdiesel, and so that ended my
driving career with him.

Speaker 2 (01:20:41):
I would imagine so.

Speaker 5 (01:20:46):
He had another truck on the road that had a team on
it, but you know he wasn't goingto pull them off the road.
You know his wife had just hada baby and she used to drive
with him and when she had the,the baby, she quit driving.

(01:21:09):
And that's when I starteddriving with him.
But after that happened shedidn't want him back on the road
.
Um, so that, like I say, thatended my career with him and
then I started driving withanother company out of Memphis,

(01:21:29):
tennessee, swift.

Speaker 2 (01:21:33):
Y'all probably know him.
Yeah, we're familiar with Swift.

Speaker 5 (01:21:37):
Well, I went to Memphis to meet my driver and I
got up there and met him and hewas a black dude and he had a
load that was delivering inMemphis.
And then we was going toArkansas and get a load, but he
wanted to go on home time Afterthat Arkansas load.

(01:21:58):
He was going to goansas and geta load, uh, but he was.
He wanted to go on home timeafter that arkansas load.
He was gonna go on home time sohe didn't want to go to
arkansas, uh to to pick thatload up.
He wanted to deliver that loadin memphis and go home.
So he said let's go go walk tothe dispatcher and see if we can
get somebody to take that loadin Arkansas.

(01:22:21):
He said man, I don't want to goto Arkansas, I want to go home.
I said all right.
So we're walking across to thedispatcher and he says look,
dude.
He said after a long, hard dayat work, he said I'd like to
have a nice cold beer, you know.
I said, yeah, man, I don't seenothing wrong with that, you

(01:22:41):
know.
And he said all right, we walka little bit further.
And he says look dude.
He says, oh, he said I got thislittle chick in the truck, you
know, and I said yeah, and Isaid OK, he said oh, you see,

(01:23:04):
see her, but she's not reallythere.
And I'm kind of scratching myhead now, you know, and I'm
going okay, and he said, uh, youhear her, but he doesn't say
anything.
And I'm going what the hell isgoing on here?
This dude got an imaginarygirlfriend or what and uh.

(01:23:28):
So I said yeah, man, that's cool, you know.
So we go to the dispatch and uh, they said no, we ain't got
nobody else to take that load inArkansas.
Y'all going to have to go getit.
He said all right, so we walkedback.
It was right at noontime.
Then he said let's go get somelunch.
The load that we were supposedto deliver in Memphis.

(01:23:49):
It had like a three-hour windowthat it didn't deliver until
three hours later.
So he said let's go get somelunch.
I said all right.
So we got in the truck and he'sgot this lock lizard in the
truck.
That's what we call them, locklizards.

Speaker 2 (01:24:12):
Yeah, that's what we call them too.

Speaker 5 (01:24:15):
That's what we call them too.
We go to Popeye and we get somechicken and we eat lunch and
he's got one of these minirefrigerators in the sleeper and
he climbs back in that sleeperand he opens it up and that
refrigerator was so crammed fullof beer that it all fell out in

(01:24:39):
the cat in in the sleeper.
And he picked, he picks up abeer and they, uh, he opens it.
He said you want a beer?
I said nah, dude.
I said I'm good.
And uh, he said, well, I wantone.
I said all right.
So he starts drinking and uh,he, he's driving at that time,

(01:25:00):
you know.
He said let's go to this placein that this that this load
delivers to is he, they'll takeit early.
And I said okay, so we go tothe tournament.
And uh, they tell us no, sorry,charlie, you're gonna have to
wait till you turn.

(01:25:21):
You have to park in staging andI will call you on the radio
when we're ready for you.
And uh, so we park in in thestaging and uh, he, uh, he grabs
another beer.
He grabs another beer.
He said you want a beer?
I said no.

(01:25:41):
I said I'll be honest with you,I don't drink.
He said well, I do.
And he drunk like.
I guess he drunk like three orfour beers while we were sitting
there at the staging area and Isaid, man, this guy's got to
drive to argue, so you know.

(01:26:01):
I said this ain't good.
And uh, so we finally deliveredour load and we take off for
arkansas and uh, he gives me aset of earphones.
He said you might want to putthese on so you can get some
sleep.
I was going to drive back fromarkansas and he said, uh, you
might want to put this on, putthese earphones on, the earplugs

(01:26:23):
on in so you can get some sleep.
He said I like my music alittle loud.
And I said, all right, so I getback to sleep and put my ear.
And I want to tell you, thewalls of the freight line are
wobbling.
I'm hearing boom, boom, boom.
And I said, man, I got tolisten to this shit all the way

(01:26:57):
to Argonauts.
The dude is deadly and I'mpraying now, please, god, just
let us make it so we get toArkansas, we pick up that load
and we're headed back.
Now I'm driving.
I said we all right now and westill on a two-lane highway.

(01:27:20):
Coming from that tournament, wehadn't uh got to the interstate
yet and we're coming up on oneof the uh stopping robs.
So he, yeah, him and his fatherget out and use the bathroom.
So I put on one side of thehighway and let him out.
It was one o'clock in themorning so I called my wife and

(01:27:43):
I said this dude was fromhattiesburg, mississippi, uh,
and, like I said, he was goingon home time.
So I told my wife, I said, getyour ass to hattiesburg,
mississippi, to pick me up.
I said I'm getting off of thistruck and, uh, total, total
circumstances, you know.

(01:28:04):
So, while that dude was goingon home time, you know, I well,
let me back up a minute.
I I was planning on dude, youknow, uh, I was planning on dude
, you know, uh, and I'm thinkingto myself what can I do here,
you know, and because, yeah,yeah, I mean, y'all know alcohol

(01:28:25):
is not allowed on in commercialvehicles, right, right.
So I said, well, I'll tell youwhat I'll do.
I said when I get on theinterstate I'm gonna put this on
to the floor.
And I ain't stopping for wavestations.
And he's stopping and I want atrooper to stop me, right, I
said, because if a trooper stopsme.

(01:28:46):
I'm gonna tell him you bettercheck this ice chases and check
this dude here, because he's dwito the mic, you know.
So they come out, I get on theinterstate and I take off and
I'm running probably 900 milesan hour.
You won't believe this, butevery wait station between

(01:29:08):
arkansas and memphis was closed.
I said, yeah, that's just myluck.
And here I am doing 90, 100miles an hour and I never got
stopped.
So when we got back to hishometown in Hattiesburg, that

(01:29:35):
dude dropped that trailer off inthe parking lot and so we we
were running bobtail then.
So we go to one of the stoppingrobs.
He refilled and refills thatrefrigerator.
He had our refrigerator full ofbeers, refrigerator full of

(01:30:04):
beer.
He had to stop at therefrigerator.
Since you're going on home time, I'm gonna go ahead and go home
too, and see you in a couple ofdays my wife come pick me up
and that was it.
That was the end of my truckdriver.
With him I wrote a seven pagestatement to the safety director

(01:30:26):
of Swift Transportation and Isaid I'm telling you, with 30
years experience, you better getthis dude off the road because
he's going to kill somebody.

Speaker 2 (01:30:39):
That might be why.
Swift has so many accidents.

Speaker 5 (01:30:44):
You better get this guy off the road.
I'm telling you, with 30 yearslaw enforcement experience, this
guy's going to kill somebody.
You know, and I had anotherfriend of mine that he was a
third-party CDL examiner for oneof the truck driving academies

(01:31:05):
here and I had known him aboutfive years and I asked him if he
wanted to run cross-countrywith me and he said yeah.
He said yeah, I'll runcross-country with you, cross
country with me.
He said yeah.
He said I, yeah, I run crosscountry with you.
So him and I started runningcross country together.

(01:31:26):
I thought I knew him, uh, andwe take off and you know,
running cross country together,and I find out that he's on all
kind of uh narcotics for fornarcotics for depression and

(01:31:47):
anxiety, and at one point hismedical certificate had been had
been suspended, you know, forbeing on narcotics.
And we out there on the westcoast in the mountains, I've
said I'm saying man, what thehell am I doing out here on
these mountains?
What are you?
doing oh my gosh you've had someterrible luck trucking wasn't

(01:32:15):
for you he's driving one day,you know, and uh we out on the
west coast, and uh, his phonerings and he picks it up and
it's his girlfriend.
Uh, his girlfriend is tellinghim that he she's cheating on
him and this and that, and thenI'm going, oh god what's going
on for Cliff, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:32:34):
so we are.

Speaker 5 (01:32:43):
I'm driving at this point and it's nighttime and
we're coming into SeattleWashington and it's no one like
all get out.
I mean it's no one.
So hard you couldn't, so hardyou couldn't hardly see the
front end of your truck.
And I'm doing 20, 25 miles anhour on the interstate with the

(01:33:08):
emergency flashers on andeverybody was in the right lane
on the interstate because theleft lane was piled up probably
about four or five feet deep insnow.
It was a blizzard.
They were plowing theinterstate but it was snowing so
heavy that it was covering itright back up.

(01:33:30):
I'm going along in that rightlane and a crosswind hit that
truck from the passenger sideand it blew that truck into that
snowbank in that left lane likeit was a tinker toy.
I got that truck back in thatright lane and as soon as I got

(01:33:51):
it back in that right lane if ithad been anybody in that left
lane on the side of me I'd havesmushed them like a pancake.
I got back in that right laneand I had my mind made up right.
Then I said if I ever get myass back to Louisiana, that's
where I'll be.
So we get out of Seattle.

(01:34:19):
It took me all night to drivethrough Seattle.
We get out of Seattle and thesnow lets up.
It's still snowing, but it'svery light and I had run out of
hours, so it wasn't myco-driver's time to drive.
So we pulled over on the sideof the interstate.
We change drivers and catchthat log up and we take off.

(01:34:44):
He takes off driving and I'mclimbing the sleeper and I
hadn't even got to sleep yet, II had been in there maybe 30
minutes and, uh, he startshollering at me chris, chris.
So I jumped up in the cab.
I said what's the matter, man,he said.
Man, he said roses getting bad.

(01:35:04):
Man.
He said this weather's gettingbad.
I just come through a damnblizzard, you know, and it's
barely snowing.
And he said this weather'sgetting bad man.
He said I don't want you backhere in that sleeper in case we
slide off of one of thesemountains.
And I said man, pull this truckover.

(01:35:25):
I said I'm driving back.
I said you talking aboutsliding your ass off of one of
these mountains, pull your assover, I'm driving back.
And that was my last journeydriving a truck I don't blame
you.

Speaker 2 (01:35:46):
Oh my gosh yeah that that was.

Speaker 5 (01:35:51):
that was quite an experience.
But yeah, I've seen a lot ofplaces I probably wouldn't have
saw, Like I had been drivingthrough all the states, you know
.
I guess we were lucky to getout of that one where that truck

(01:36:17):
burned up.
Oh yeah, they claim, when asteer tire blows out you end up
generally turning it over when asteer tire blows out.

(01:36:41):
So I'm glad that didn't happenand we all got that all right.
But he uh, that trip there, uh,when my dad's car popped now he
uh we was gonna deliver thatload to la and he was gonna buy
a brand new truck uh going todaytona, and that that truck had
1 million 39 000 miles on it.
When they caught that truck had1,039,000 miles on it when it
caught, jesus gosh, 1,039,000miles, gosh.

Speaker 4 (01:37:03):
It had been around the country then several times
sounds like Better believe it.

Speaker 5 (01:37:16):
Did you ever make it to Hawaii?
No, never, never.
It was three days before Now Ihad a trip.
I had a.
It was a trip going up there toKorea, because I flew.
I flew from my hometown.

(01:37:38):
Well, the nearest airport toOakdale is in Alexandria.
So I flew out of Alexandria toDallas-Fort Worth.
Then I flew out of Dallas-FortWorth to Seattle Washington and
we were supposed to fly out ofNorth where on the Northwest

(01:37:59):
Airlines at 740 out of Seattle.
Well, the journey started inDallas.
When we got to Dallas, the, Iflew Delta from from
Alexandrialexandria to dallasand I was flying brent off

(01:38:20):
airlines from dallas to seattle.
Brent, I don't believe this inbusiness anymore, but uh, if I
recall right, the plane wassupposed to leave like uh two
o'clock that evening, going toseattle, and I got there about

(01:38:40):
12 o'clock noon and it was aswitch from delta to branniff.
I said, well, I got a couplehours, I'll stop and get me a
hamburger, you know, getsomething to eat.
Uh, before I go to the brann oftournament, and got off at the
delta turtle mall and they hadthe signs up there.

(01:39:00):
I never forget the flight.
It was a brand of flight 188and delta had their signs up
there uh, brand of flight 188.
Scheduled departure was twoo'clock, 15 minute delay.
Departure is at uh 2 15 and Isaid, well, that's a little bit
better, you know.
So I got to the uh delta, tothe uh brunoff tournament, and

(01:39:25):
they got their signs out thereand this and their board is
flashing flat 188.
And it's flashing now board,board.
I said what I took off runningfor the gate and I got to the

(01:39:45):
gate just in time to watch myplane back up.
I said I asked the gate agent.
I said what's the deal here?
I said that plane's notsupposed to leave for another
hour, you know.
And uh, they said yeah, we know.
Said uh, brenner changed theirflight time on us this morning
that we didn't have time tonotify anybody.
And uh, that's real good, youknow.

(01:40:09):
And uh, when you go talk to thepeople at the at the delta.
So I went back to the DeltaTournament and they said, yeah,
we've been having time enough tonotify anybody.
And I said, well, how are y'allgoing to get me to Seattle?
And they looked through theirstuff and they said sorry, we

(01:40:30):
can't get you to Seattle untiltomorrow.
And I said, well, I'll tell youwhat you can do.
I said you can call thatcolonel at McCord Air Force Base
and tell him I can't be there.
I said I got a mandatoryprotocol that I got to meet
today.
And they said, well, hold on aminute.

(01:40:51):
And so they looked again andthey said, well, the only way we
can get you there today is wecan fly you from here to los
angeles and then from losangeles to seattle.
I said, well, book me on theflight.
I've got to be there today, youknow.
Uh, uncle sam, don't take it,don't take no for an answer.

(01:41:12):
They was nice about it, they.
They flew us first class.
They flew me to first class toLos Angeles and then to Seattle.
Well, like I said, when we gotto Seattle, we were supposed to
fly northwest 747 to Korea.
We get to Seattle and northwestis on strike.

(01:41:37):
We get to Seattle and Northwestis on strike.
They load us all up on amilitary bus and took us to the
McCartan Air Force Base and weflew to Korea on a C-141 cargo
transport plane.

Speaker 3 (01:41:55):
Were you sitting in cargo seats on the side looking
at each other?

Speaker 5 (01:42:01):
Yes, it wasn't no seats on there, it's just cargo
nets.
Oh yeah.
I've done that, yeah, just cargonets down both sides.
And it was, it was hot as hell.
You know, when we got on and Isaid, I asked the pilot man,
this thing got air conditioningin it?
He said we got air conditioning, but we got to get up to

(01:42:22):
cruising altitude before we canturn it on and I said well, shit
, I'll just lay back and go tosleep.
You know, once we get airborne,we get airborne.

(01:42:43):
Well, if you ain't been on aone-party one, you, you, you're
not going to keep on the oneparty one.
So we flew, uh, we flew from,from uh, seattle to anchor,
alaska, and we landed inAnchorage, refueled, and then we
journeyed on to Tumson, korea,on that 141.

(01:43:07):
Yep, and that was a trip.

Speaker 2 (01:43:11):
That sounds terrible.

Speaker 3 (01:43:14):
I flew a C-130 from Camp Pendleton to Kachikan,
alaska, the worst flight I'veever been on, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:43:28):
When I was stationed at the Eglin Air Force Base, we
used to fly rescue missions outof a C-130.
When you know, the Devil'sTriangle was real big back then,
and the Bermuda Triangle,whatever you want to call it, oh
yeah.
But anytime they would golooking missing ship or missing

(01:43:52):
plane or something like that,three of us would have to go
from law enforcement and thenthree paratroopers was on it and
we'd fly.
You know, they'd call you inthe middle of the shift and tell
you go to 10-7 and be back onthe flight line for 5 am for a

(01:44:14):
rescue mission.

Speaker 3 (01:44:15):
Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 5 (01:44:17):
They called me one day during the shift and they
said go 10-7, be back on theflight line for 5, 0-500 for a
rescue mission.
I said, ah, so we get on theplane and like I say, it's that
130 search plane and get on thatplane.
We have headsets, we can talkto one another.

(01:44:39):
I asked the pilot.
I said where we're going thismorning.
He said we're going to thedevil's triangle.
I said yeah, that's real goodI'm gonna see one third.

Speaker 3 (01:44:51):
We got disaster written all over.

Speaker 2 (01:44:53):
Oh my gosh, we got disaster written all over you,
oh my gosh.

Speaker 5 (01:44:58):
To the Devil's Triangle.
We're looking for a missionshield.
I said, yeah, okay, but we got.
You know, we got.
Right before we got to thetriangle the Coast Guard called
us and Coast Guard told us theywas going into the triangle and
they just wanted us to fly theperimeter of the triangle.

(01:45:22):
I said, yep, sounds good to me,buddy, let's go.
Oh my gosh, yes, we just flewthe outskirts of the triangle.
We didn't go into the triangle,which pleased me the luck
you've had over the time.

Speaker 4 (01:45:43):
It sounds like it's the best thing that could have
happened, absolutely yeah, likethey uh, so I flew on.

Speaker 5 (01:45:52):
I flew on 130s and uh , 141 and uh and a huey that was
with dps.
We had an inmate that we had totransport by air uh, air amulets
to new orleans and that was incritical condition.

(01:46:14):
And I met the helicopter on thehelipad and, uh, here in baton
rouge, and pollock says, uh, hesaid you ever been in a in a
chopper before?
I said man, I said the lasttime I was in a chopper was a

(01:46:35):
huey.
It's a little bit differentthan a Dewey.
He said they had the five-pointsafety harnesses and all that
in that chopper, in that airmanchopper, you know.
And he said you know how thesefive-point harnesses work?
I said I don't think we hadseatbelts in them, deweys.
No, I don't know how thatfive-point harness worked.

(01:47:06):
It showed me how it worked andeverything, but it was all good.
A lot different being frombeing in that huey.
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (01:47:15):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:47:15):
Well, you lived a life, that's for sure.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:47:20):
What a journey.
Yeah, it's been a fun time.
Yeah, I'm pleased with theoutcome so far.

Speaker 2 (01:47:31):
Good, good, good.
Well, listen, chris, I'vethoroughly enjoyed it.
It's been fun, yeah, yeah it'sbeen fun.

Speaker 5 (01:47:39):
Yeah, yeah, y'all had to come down and get some of
this, this Cajun food man.

Speaker 2 (01:47:50):
I'm all about it it's definitely on the bucket list
we're coming.

Speaker 3 (01:47:55):
Thank you so much.
This has been a blast, anabsolute blast yeah, same here.

Speaker 2 (01:48:01):
I appreciate it, no problem.

Speaker 4 (01:48:02):
We appreciate you taking the time to sit down with
us alright anytime give me acall or a shout anytime, brother
, I'll enjoy talking with you ok, same here dog.
I appreciate it get up toKentucky, give, give me a shout.
We'll do that, you get that bigfifth wheel and you start

(01:48:25):
traveling around.

Speaker 5 (01:48:26):
now, yeah, we might make it up that way one day.

Speaker 3 (01:48:31):
Yep, All right brother, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:48:35):
All right.
All right, chris, have a goodone All right, enjoy it.

Speaker 5 (01:48:38):
Y' have a good one.
All right, enjoy it.
Yeah, y'all have a good one too.

Speaker 4 (01:48:41):
All right, see you, brother.
Bye.

Speaker 5 (01:48:43):
All right, bye-bye.

Speaker 2 (01:48:44):
All right, guys.
Hope you enjoyed it.
Catch us on the next one.
Catch us on the next one.
I did the pre-sign.