Nuclear Depths: Life on a Fast Attack Submarine

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:35):
Music.
I hope it got that.
I'm not going to go ahead andhave it cut it.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
We've not had any like.
Oh my gosh, I peed all overmyself moments in a while.
Yeah, we need a good Travis peestory.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
All right guys, Welcome back to another episode.
Travis is in the mood.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
Dying to know some stuff from our guests, maybe
yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
So we've had I don't know.
Most of our episodes have endedup with some kind of pee story,
from Travis peeing in sandbags,peeing on his wife, you know,
peeing in the bed.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
So it's kind of a running joke at this point I'm
going to try not to tell any,but you never know, if it goes
that direction, I've got plentymore.
So we'll see.
So we're running.
If it goes that direction, I'vegot plenty more, so we'll see.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
So we're running this episode from a new location.
We're.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Station 2 now.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Station 2.
We're trying it out so we'llsee how it goes in this room.
It's kind of a work in progress.
We've got a great guest for youtonight.
We're going out of the realm ofpolice and everything, going
into the military.
He'll be our first, I guess,full military guest.
He's actually some of my familyhe's married into, and so

(01:55):
welcome our guest, paul Baker.
Glad to have you on, thank you.
So, paul, tell us a little bitabout yourself.
Well, the.

Speaker 5 (02:05):
I born in Dayton, ohio, families from Manchester,
kentucky, and and then, likeeverybody else, moved to Ohio
for jobs after you know KoreanWar or whatever.
then this night I wound upcoming back to southeast
Kentucky, in Clay County, andfinished up the fourth grade
through high school, which Igraduated in 1982 from Clay

(02:28):
County, and then that's where Ishortly there.
That's when I joined the navy,the submarine service, and I had
served on three nuclear-poweredsubmarines and I did a tour, a
three-year, four-year tour, as atraining instructor to a
submarine training facility,charleston.
Uh and uh my rate.

(02:48):
On the submarine I was atorpedo man's mate first class,
so I'm responsible for theship's ordinance torpedoes,
power techniques, small arms,ammunition, then the ship's
torpedo tube launching system,flood and drain, hydraulics,
high-pressure air, those typesof things.
And some of my collateralduties in the Navy was as a

(03:13):
firearms instructor and atraining instructor and some
other little things.
Did my 10 years that I was putout on disability.
Then, in January of 94, Ifinally got hired on at the
federal prison in Manchester,okay, okay, which, and I did 20

(03:38):
years there and I geez, I, thisis I did not just show up and do
my eight hours and go home.
I was a little more, you know,because here's the thing Once
you're in the submarine serviceit programs you to don't stop

(04:01):
learning.
You always, always, keep going,keep going.
You always work to the nextstep, and so I kept that.
And so with the Bureau ofPrisons, I get in there and
anything and everything thatcomes available.
I jumped on it.
I spent 19 years there as afirearms training instructor as

(04:24):
well and a correctional servicestraining instructor.
I would teach new staff thecorrectional techniques stuff
before they went to Glencoe.
There's a three weekindoctrination you go through
and I would do the correctionalservices part of that along with
other people.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Is that down in Flet in Georgia?

Speaker 5 (04:45):
yeah, they were kind of like teach you a little bit.
Look, this is what's gonna goon in flat seat kind of like a
gentleman's course top.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yes, that's why you're getting ready to go.

Speaker 5 (04:55):
Yeah, they kind of give you an idea, and I did a
farms training stuff, thetraining instructor there I was
oh what a crap.
I spent about five years on theAffirmative Action Committee.
I was a selective placementprogram manager, you know, for
people with disabilities, theADA and things, american

(05:19):
Disabilities Act, compliancestuff.
I was an equal employment Ican't say equal employment
opportunity counselor.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah, that's a mouthful.

Speaker 5 (05:30):
I would do say somebody say sexual harassment
stuff, they would go first.
You have to go first, you haveto go through your processes,
lowest level first, which wouldbe an EEO counselor, and if that
didn't work then it would go tothe next step.
And the next step Is this forinmates or employees Employees

(05:52):
Okay.
Holy crap.
What else did I do?
Yes, I probably did more than Ishould have but I didn't like I
said, being a sub-main servicefault me or ruined me?
I don't know if you it set thebar high standards, to keep

(06:13):
achieving high standards.
No matter what I did, whereverI went, it's what I did yeah and
never settled, I never settled,I never never settled for.
This is not.
I kept on going and going, andgoing and going and then I did.
Well, I think I had about 12years in and I got tired of the

(06:37):
correctional stuff.
I can't blame you.
There I went.
I went five years in Unicor atthe factory so I did five years
in the factory where we madebattle dress uniforms, the
Gore-Tex rain pants and thattype of stuff.
It was a good thing and a badthing.
The good thing it was a Mondaythrough Friday, off weekends and
holidays, but that's kind oflike that.

(06:58):
It wasn't my cup of tea.
My cup of tea was correctionsbeing in their sewing machine
and it wasn't my stuff.
So they started doing areduction of force in Unicor and
the warden invited me to comeback to custody.
I said okay, I understand.
She kicked my chair as shewalked by.

(07:20):
You know what I mean.
Come back to custody, alright, Igot you.
Then, eventually was promotedto lieutenant after that chair.
She walked by.
Yeah, come back to custody, allright, I got you.
Then, uh, eventually waspromoted to lieutenant after
that.
Okay, then that's, I did mytime, I retired, I did my 20
years.
January of 2014, I retired with20 years for the bureau of
prisons, 10 years navy.

(07:41):
So I have 30 years retirementand, uh, I doing okay, I think
yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
I would say so, you lied, he is part of.

Speaker 4 (07:51):
LA.
Yeah, I did lie.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
I'm very curious.
So what year did you join theNavy then?

Speaker 5 (08:01):
January of 83.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
So you went up to do everything in Illinois.
I went to boot camp in GreatLakes in the middle of January
of 83.
So you went up to they doeverything in Illinois.
I went to boot camp in GreatLakes in the middle of January
and February, and cold, I meancold.
Say it was nasty Cold.
So from there boot camp was, itwas cold, but no problems there
.

Speaker 5 (08:20):
Then went to sub school around Connecticut Stuff
like that, yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
So that how long was sub school?
Five weeks, five weeks, and butI mean, I'm sure going to the
fleet then was eye openingbecause you see that thing.

Speaker 5 (08:41):
When I reported on board we had this, what we call
the command master chief, whatwe call the chief of the boat,
the cob.
You always see these Navy showson the submarine the cob.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
You know, he's a senior enlisted guy if you watch
like Top Gun and stuff likethat, the cob's always up there
with the XO or the CEO.

Speaker 5 (09:01):
He's a senior enlisted guy over he's a liaison
between the XO, the captain andthe enlisted people Okay.
I'm in there washing dishesdoing my time in the kitchen.
He was a good big old boy fromGeorgia.

Speaker 4 (09:15):
He come by and he said Baker.

Speaker 5 (09:17):
Yes, cobb.
He says you know how you doing.
I said I'm doing.
Okay, cobb, all right, good,good, good.
He said navy, you know the navytoday.
It's not just a job, that's anadventure.
I said yeah, god.
Yeah.
He said you went to school andeverything.
Yes, carl, you went to all that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, that'sthe adventure part, he said.

(09:41):
He said now, boy, you're onthis.
Now, you're, boy, you're on thesub.
Now it's time for the job part.
Get to work.
Alright, it's amazing how many.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
I was like my MOS when I when I got out to the
marine fleet it was, you know, Iwas at first.
I was it's kind of weirdbecause it's down time so I was
a motor transport moved butended up in a combat engineer.
I did, um, I was a vehiclerecovery guy so operating cranes
, and then our shop was notalways operating cranes because

(10:15):
we did.
We had some vehicles so I endedup doing hazmat, pulling the
engines, loading.
I was like all this other stuffbut I thought my primary, you
know MOS was swabbing decks anddoing field days, just pick it
up, sweeping.

Speaker 4 (10:33):
Sweeping.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
Or buffer tech Buffer .
I was a buffer tech a lot too.
So, yeah, but that you know,until you get like E4 or
corporate or something NCO.
I was like man, I know my job.

Speaker 5 (10:45):
I'm swabbed to death well, I got a buffer tech story
for you.
I want to hear one.
Yes, well, when I went to shoreduty as a training instructor
this is for people that'sprimary E6 and above E6 and E7
it's with you.
This is okay.
You've done your time on theboat.
Now you've got a shore duty tohopefully relax and get some

(11:08):
downtime.

Speaker 4 (11:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (11:09):
Well, on shore duty, we had these civilians that come
in at nighttime that took careof the buffing the floors and
this and that you know what Imean Did all that stuff?
Well, okay, you need to savemoney.
Guess how they save money.
Put the sailors' work On shoreduty duty we had when I first
started out, first year or so.
There we was.
In what 30 section duty?

(11:31):
I mean every 30 days you had tocome in and stand duty in the
building, make rounds, make surethe place isn't burning down.
Security patrol.
You know well, they got thebribe and they let these sailors
run these high-speed buffertechs and buff and wax these
floors on.
On what?
On weekends?
On weekends.

(11:51):
So happy about it?
Yeah, all right.
So we went from a 30-daysection to a 15 sex.
Now we had to ask every 15 dayswe had to stand watch this why?
Because then every time youcome in, if you had duty on a
saturday you spent.
You don't even come and do yourwatches.
You come in and have to come infor spending four hours on a
saturday.
You'd be stripping a section offloor or sealing it and waxing

(12:13):
and buffing high speed buffer.
Oh, my goodness, they werepeople talking about po, people
that were e6 is kind of.
Here we are buffing floors.

Speaker 3 (12:21):
Come on, man, you know this is, uh, this is
private work.
So I I uh, I remember my first,you know, I got promoted to e4
and I was like, fired up, youknow getting the blood stripe
and the marines getting that,you know getting the nco stuff,

(12:42):
and I was like man, I've made it.
First thing.
The sergeant that came up hewas like, hey, I got plans
tonight.
You're the new corporal, so yougot barracks duty tonight.
You're the NCO in charge onthat.
And I was like this is a Friday,he's like it's Saturday.

(13:05):
I had it the weekend.
It was like it was, uh, youknow, this is a friday, he's
like it's saturday.
You know, I had it the weekend.
It's like friday night,saturday night, sunday maybe.
I think he came in and relievedme on sunday and he was like
good luck.
And it was like a holidayweekend, yeah, like when wild
lot, st patty's day or somethingwhen marines get buck wild,
anyway, on any weekend, butespecially St Paddy's.

(13:27):
And I was just like, oh, thatwouldn't trial my fire.
I was like, are you kidding me?
I was like, well, I'm going tohave to shoot my way out of here
.
I was like, and then, like youknow, that was just the barracks
.
Then you had the head.
You know the guy over guy overthe staff, nco that was over the

(13:48):
battalion he was coming in.
He's like you, better get ittogether, devil dog.

Speaker 4 (13:52):
I was like I'm ready to take my chevrons off.
He's like I'm going to party.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
It was just wild because he knew what was coming,
it was just his draw.
He's like I got a rookie here.
I was like, yeah, knew what wascoming, it was just his draw,
and he's like I got a rookiehere.
So I was like, yeah, I'll do it.
Oh my gosh, that's what threwyou under the bus.
It's horrible, but it's all theextra duties that you can do

(14:16):
your job.
It's the extra stuff that justdrove you crazy.
You're like, oh my gosh, Ican't believe all this stuff.

Speaker 5 (14:23):
But yeah, tell us more about this sub stuff,
because you're the first personI've ever met that went All
right.
All right, let's go back tothis good old boy from Georgia,
the chief of the boat, the Cobb.
When I was doing my onboardcheck-on with him, he was giving
me the riot act on checkingonboard the boat.

(14:44):
He said boy, he says I hate athief.
He was giving me the riot acton checking on board the boat.
He said boy, he says I hate athief.
He said boy, we got a thief onboard here and if I catch this
thief?
He said well, boy, you knowwhat he said.
You know we got some prettysteep ladders in here.
You know up and down.
You know I hate for someone tofall on them ladders and really

(15:05):
get hurt.
You know I hate.
You know you take a shower andyou slip in a bar.
You know I hate for somebody toslip and fall on a ball, a ball
, a bar of soap.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
That'd really be bad you know, you know, you know
what I'm saying there.
Boy, you get my drift.

Speaker 5 (15:19):
Yeah, I get your drift.
You know these bumps.
You're allowed to roll over andseas and roll over on a bed and
you might fall and hit yourhead on the way down.
You know that'd be bad.
You understand, you get mydrift.
There, boy, I'll get you adrift I ain't a thief.
All right, I got you.
I got you.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
Man, I bet it was a total different style of justice
.
When you're underneath thewater it is Way far out, it is,
it is.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
I couldn't imagine how long was a sub deployment
like how long would you all be?

Speaker 5 (15:51):
it really depend on your mission.
It can be a week or it can be90 days.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Okay, I can't imagine spending a day if you was in
the g.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
Gulf or something like that, and you was always
attacked.
I mean the fleet, like thecarrier group, the sub was
probably somewhere close orsomewhere out there.

Speaker 5 (16:16):
Okay, here's something for you to think about
.
Guys, for every one carrier,there's at least two fast attack
submarines underneath, orsomewhere.
For every one carrier, there'sat least two fast attack
submarines underneath, orsomewhere.
For every one carrier, there'stwo fast attack submarines
underneath for security.
Yes, okay, so if there's twoaircraft carriers, you're going

(16:38):
to have four fast attacksubmarines patrolling underneath
for security.
Yeah, okay, that's somethingpeople don't know.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
You don't know.
I didn't know that.
You don't think about that.
I always knew.
I mean I knew that there waswhen the carrier group went out.
Yes, I knew that.
You know frigging, I meanwhatever resupply all that went
with them.

Speaker 5 (16:59):
There can be what Two submarines okay, there's a
whole lot to that.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
Yeah, I mean there's a reason I never did a float.
I wish I kind of would havelike a med float or something,
but I never did.
But then I'm probably like I'mglad I did, because what the
Marines wrote on were not that.

Speaker 5 (17:20):
Well, I saw a few Marines with a lot of Sea
Service stars on their ribbons.

Speaker 4 (17:25):
You know, you get stars for multiple.

Speaker 5 (17:27):
I've seen a lot of young staff sergeants with a lot
of stars, more stars than I'veseen with sailors.
I was like my God, guys, Icouldn't imagine.
You get stars on your SeaService ribbons.

Speaker 3 (17:42):
What was it like the first time you you get in there
and you're, you're, you're,you're on top, like when they
hear, when you hear dive.
What was that like?

Speaker 5 (17:52):
thank goodness, thank goodness, you know you well.
First of all, a submarine isround.
Yes, yeah so going down theriver.
You're tossing back and forthyou're just.
You're just a soda can tossingback and forth, back and forth
down the river and the furtheryou go, the worse it gets, and

(18:15):
we have to be in 10,000 fathomsof water before we can dive.
That way, if something goeswrong, we go down, we stay down,
we're not coming up.
That's the reason for that.
So you have to be out deepenough and it, you know, to a
certain point and charleston,it's not too bad.
But you, after a while, you'relike when we're going to dive,
and you hear that dive andyou're like thank god, because

(18:36):
once you get down in the waterit smooths out, it's smooth.
Yes, that's where it belongs.
All right, it's streamlined torun on the water.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
I never thought about that if I've been pinched,
crazy yeah if you're the longest.

Speaker 5 (18:55):
I'm up top, I'm okay, breathing fresh air and I see
it, but when you're down belowyou don't see, cuz you don't see
nothing moving, you justeverything.
You not this, but only in theone boat I was on at the pewter
and we'd have these chain hoistshanging down, two of them, and
that'd be the only thing.
The chain hoists.
Wait a minute, the chain hoistsnever moved.
It was a submarine movingaround those chain hoists

(19:16):
hanging you know what I mean.
Right, it was that submarinepivoting around those chain
hoists.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
Oh my gosh.
I was like I wish I could climbup that chain and just be still
yeah.

Speaker 5 (19:31):
And I can remember at 400 feet, I think at 400 feet,
we were taking like five degreerolls.
At 400 feet we got to 150 feet,we was taking like 10 degree
rolls.
At 150 feet, we got to 150 feet, we was taking like 10 degree
rolls at 150 feet it was nastybad, that's, yeah, I would.

(19:58):
I would have been yeah, it'll betalking about well, we did a,
we did a, we pulled into stcroix, virgin islands and we
came out of there and we justcome back across and we couldn't
be some risk or we was inanother submarine's hop area,
it's all right.
So we and it was rough.
So there was three days of nofood being served.
It was too dang rough.
You went to the mess decks andif you can eat peanut butter and

(20:18):
crackers or sardines, it's whatyou ate, but you know what I
mean.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
Usually put they didn't want to clean it up.

Speaker 5 (20:24):
They're like, yeah, we're good, couldn't cook, or no
, we can cook, no ways, nobodywas hungry anyway, couldn't nah,
it'd be like, yeah, we're goodnah, I'm okay, give me some
cracker peanut butter, I'll beout between between C6.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
I bet that.
I bet that.
I bet that old salty dogs areup there like you, bunch of
rookies.

Speaker 5 (20:45):
I've seen some old salty dogs get sick at that dog
yeah there's no way screw that.
The Dramamine patch makesthings worse.
Dramamine pills make it worse.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
I tried we we cruised and got in high seas from from
Boston to Bermuda and there's nopatch, no peel that can.
I was like when you're walkingdown a hallway and you end up
bouncing off this side and thatside.

Speaker 5 (21:19):
I was just like I got to get this.
You just lean up against it andHopefully you don't have no
doorway.
You just kind of slide.
You just roll down it you justlean up against the wall and
kind of use it to hold you up.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
It jacked me up for about a week after I got home
from that and then flying when Igot home I felt like I was
still moving, driving home.

Speaker 5 (21:40):
I would come home and almost fall out of the shower
Because I was still taking ashower.
I'm still wobbling around inthe shower Just thinking I need
to wobble around to keep mybalance, but I don't, right you
get sea legs on the shore.
That's it Sea legs on the shore.
You're right, absolutely Wow.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
It's not a good feeling.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
I don't know we went deep sea fishing one time.
Well, twice, same outcome bothtimes.

Speaker 4 (22:05):
But the first time, yeah, the first time we had bad
choppy seas.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
When we got out there and I got so sick and they gave
me the Dramamine and what youwere saying it makes it worse,
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
If you can go to sleep, that's the best.
It just turned everything intofoam.
I was just thinking Foam.

Speaker 4 (22:24):
Seafoam everything into foam.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
I was just thinking it's like a sun's machine.
How fast when you're on top,how fast do them things cruise
then?

Speaker 5 (22:31):
Maybe 12, 15 knots.
Oh, that's so slow.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
It is slow.

Speaker 5 (22:37):
That'd be like a teardrop submarine is made to
run faster than a submersion ison the surface Right Now.
The World War II submarineswere V-hull.
A World War II submarine waspretty much a frigate with a
sealed top on it, made tosubmerge.
So it had a V-hull so it wouldhave run faster and longer.
It was a battery boat anyway, adiesel boat, diesel yeah.

(23:00):
So they would run 90% of theirtime on the surface.
Then, once you found a contact,then they would surge and go
batteries to attack, because itran slower underneath, faster on
top because of the V-hole.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
Very interesting.
How long can these nuclear subsstay submerged?

Speaker 5 (23:23):
As long as you've got food.
That's amazing to me.
As long as you've got food,food, food's the biggest
drawback.
Make your own water and makeyour own oxygen.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
I didn't know that yes, so as long as I mean, your
weakest link is your food supplyand that's it your food and
your crew's health, as long asyou stay healthy.

Speaker 5 (23:42):
That's it, oh wow.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
I couldn't imagine, because I you know living in
barracks and stuff.
When somebody got stripped,everybody got stripped.
If somebody got the you knowstomach bug, it was just run
this course.
Flu, whatever.
I would imagine that itwouldn't be the same.
I bet that.
I bet that a sub was evenfaster not too bad, you're
always together anyway.

Speaker 5 (24:04):
You're still there, working together every day.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
By that time, if it already passed or something,
you're pretty healthy.

Speaker 5 (24:14):
The biggest problem is your teeth, because teeth
will get you off of a submarinequicker than a kidney stone.
Really, yeah, why is thatthere's no dentist?
We only have a corpsman?
Really yeah, why is thatthere's no dentist?
We only have a corpsman.

Speaker 4 (24:30):
That's all we have.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
That's all we got is a corpsman, so a toothache would
send you back up.
Yes, it would.

Speaker 5 (24:37):
A corpsman can't get it pulled deep With a pair of
pliers.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
So give me some teeth yeah.

Speaker 5 (24:44):
You're a bad dental wreckers in your kidney, your
kidney stones.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
Keep you off of I'm sure Well.
I had no idea.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, I worked a handgun there for a corpsman the
other day.
We may have to pick his brain alittle bit Corpsman especially
when they're signed.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
They're the best friends that you could ever have
, especially Iorman, especiallywhen they're signed.
They're the best friends thatyou could ever have, especially,
I mean, they did everything.
The Marines, they went througha crazy boot camp with us too.
So that it's they were.
They're good.
My father-in-law's he was oncarrier groups.
He retired Navy.
He did 22 years and he wasalways on carrier.

(25:25):
So I wanted to have him onthere talking about what the
difference is.
Absolutely yeah, but I couldimagine being like for a long
deployment in such confinedspaces.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
I think, yeah, the claustrophobia would get me.

Speaker 5 (25:42):
I think I would that's see like sub school
things like that.
Yeah, the claustrophobia wouldget me, I think.
See, like sub-school and thingslike that, you're being watched
a lot.
To see how you're going tohandle it.
A lot of eyes are watching youall the time.
They put you through thesetraining scenarios to see how
you're going to react and ifyou're going to wig out in

(26:03):
school, yeah, you're gone, yeah,and still.
Then you get people, get to theboat and they, they still watch
you.
That's, this is let's get it,and what I'm thinking.
Let's start.
Hey, let's talk about hazingfor a minute.
Sure, all right, because didthey?
They didn't have hazing whenyou was in the marine corps.
They dropped that hazing theywanted to.

Speaker 3 (26:22):
I mean, we got her, we took our licks here and there
the blood panion.

Speaker 5 (26:27):
Well, on a submarine, particularly hazing serves a
purpose and if you got somebodythat's gonna wig out, you didn't
want to wig out.
When you're winging feet in themission on the water and you're
out on a mission somewhere, youdon't want somebody to wig out
yeah, because they starthollering and screaming and we

(26:47):
can hear that they might take aring start beating and you gotta
.
You know now you're beingdetected.
You're being so to help washpeople out.
Hazing served that purpose ofgetting these people washed out.
That we're going to wig outbecause you don't want these
people to wig out during anemergency or something happens

(27:09):
If somebody wigs out, that canbe a loss of life.
Yes, okay, and the ship too.

Speaker 3 (27:15):
Yes.

Speaker 5 (27:15):
So that's very important.
It did serve that purpose andduring that time, on the
submarine for hazing, they getrid of the undesirable.
Not the undesirables, but thepeople that just can't, couldn't
have stress.
All right yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:32):
Probably a lot more stress inoculation.
See if you've got what it takesunder here and put the pressure
on you.

Speaker 5 (27:39):
Well, it's like what boot camp was originally for.
Now in the Navy boot camp in 90they started having stress
cards oh yeah, I remember sayingthey wear gym shoes now at boot
camps.
What are you doing?
So boot camp was also a way towash people out yes, if they cut

(28:00):
the mustard.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
It's not you can't, you can't be If they cut the
mustard.
If you're welcome, you got to,you got to.
It's not you can't be.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
I've heard they're talking about bringing the shark
attack back, and I'm okay withthat.
I mean that doesn't?

Speaker 3 (28:17):
You have to check and see if you got it.
Will you stress out and run it?
Will you jump up out of afoxhole and run a fighting
position?
Will you give away your?
And it's just about savinglives.
That's really all it is.
Can you maintain disciplinewhen?
Because they can't shoot you?

Speaker 2 (28:35):
When the crap's hitting the fan.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
Like a DI, a drill instructor or somebody.
They can't shoot you or shootat you.
They just can't.
So what do they do?
They add distress.
And the only way you can dothat is raise voice and PT, run
you to your you know and yelland bring your heart rate up and
then have you do drills or dosomething you know that adds

(28:59):
that see if you can perform.

Speaker 5 (29:09):
Just hazing to be a bully is one thing, but hazing
to check you see if you've gotwhat it takes to make it.
Make sure you know, and it no.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
It's not being a bully, nothing about being a
bully, it's all about yeah it'snot about isolation, because
when they put you on a quarterdeck and pt you, you throw up.
There's a reason.
It is about seeing if you cangut out.
You made a mistake or whatever,or I was just in the area of
somebody that got in trouble.

(29:34):
It's not about me personally,it's a gut check and see if I've
got what it takes to be aMarine, if I've got what it
takes to submerge in a on asubmarine in the navy.
It's all it's about.
It cannot.
Can I go through a, an sf, andI knew I couldn't.
I just didn't have thatmentality in the gut.

(29:56):
I could probably, you know,physically, probably not now,
you know now back then maybeyeah, but I just didn't have
that desire to go to reconschool or anything like that.
And if I would have, it wouldhave just been, they would have
washed me out because it justwasn't what I wanted to do
that's true you know, but that'swhere they find it

Speaker 4 (30:17):
they find?

Speaker 3 (30:18):
or why are you here?
Do you really want this, orwhat did it look cool and you
want to join up, so that's thedifference and that's difference
.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
I see no issue with that.
You've got to figure it out.
It's just like that in thepolice academy too.
Our police academy is prettymore.
They try a little bit, but it'snot.
It's basically a gentleman'scourse too.

Speaker 3 (30:39):
State police have implemented that.
I think they still do.
They're tougher.
I think they still do, yeah,they're tougher.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
But you know, you've got to find out.
I would rather find out thatthis is not for me in a
controlled environment ratherthan to find out this is not for
me when somebody else's life ison the line.

Speaker 5 (30:58):
Because if you've got , a state trooper that's going
to the academy and he's got a DIin his brims, in his forehead.
What's he going to do when he'sdown in the car in the street
and he pulls somebody over andthey start doing the same thing
down the street?
What are they going to do?

Speaker 3 (31:13):
alright, exactly, I think we're seeing.
The go hard academy will helpyou on the street to maintain
your cool discipline yes withlaw enforcement.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
You got to kind of ride that line because you can't
.
I mean you've got to be.
You can't back down but, youalso don't want to escalate to
the point you're yeah, you knowviolating civil rights.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
So how many?
You said you did three.
How many deployments did you doon on or different groups?
Well, I was on three submarines.
Okay, multiple.

Speaker 5 (31:45):
I was on one.
My first submarine was a fastattack.
Then I went to two ballisticmissile submarines.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
After that that's got to be a different world,
different worlds.

Speaker 5 (31:57):
A fast attack, a seek and destroy, yes.
And the SSBN is a go down, laylow and wait for launch orders
to launch these missiles toArmageddon, yes, okay.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
I bet that was a.
What was the difference, say,in the attitudes, like when
you're Hunter Seekers orwhatever that movie, I love that
movie.
When you're hunter-seekers orwhatever that movie, I love that
movie.
If you're on that side, you'rea hunt-destroy mission versus
what's the?

Speaker 5 (32:30):
mindset Completely different.
Completely, it has to beCompletely different.
I mean back when I was in on afast attack submarine.
The only thing I can explainbeing a fast attack is like
being in a 1% motorcycle clubyeah okay, that's what I figured

(32:50):
.
Like they're their own badasses, you're on your own you
see somebody out there tells youyou need to get a haircut, you
flip them to birds.
They go screw you.
But that's the way it is almostlike the special forces of subs,
probably on the water they'relike excuse me, buddy, you know

(33:11):
where I've been guaranteed nowon a boomer submarine.
It's on a fast stack submarine.
You've got one crew.
That crew's got that boatforever until people come.
How many people?
130?

Speaker 2 (33:28):
hundred.
All right, that's a lot.

Speaker 5 (33:30):
Well, that's the whole crew.
No, not everybody.
Go to see, see, so people stayback.
Go to school vacation, okay,baby, leave whatever.
Now, on the boomers, you havetwo crews.
You got blue crew to go, crew I.
This boat's designed to go outwith these missiles, so it's
designed to go out and stay outfor three months with one crew,
while the other crew stays back,goes to school, goes to

(33:53):
training, r&r.
You train four hours a day ordisappear for four hours a day
and go home.
Right, all right, trust me,when I was on a boomer, all
right, trust me, when I was on aboomer, I would be in
Charleston, south Carolina, anda lot of times on a Thursday

(34:15):
afternoon, thursday evening.
I'd be right here in London,kentucky, on a Thursday
afternoon.
I'd be there until Sundayafternoon.
We'd drive back to Charleston,all right.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
That's the way it was .
That's not too bad of a gig.
Not too bad of a gig.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
I'd say when it was, I'd say, when it was out, when
you was on a mission.
It was probably a differentkind of world.

Speaker 5 (34:40):
Yeah, because on a fast attack they'll seek and
destroy missions.
You're out there doing thingsthat people don't know about,
because when you're not, a fastattack has two missions seek and
destroy and espionage.
So if you're not out thereseeking and destroying, you're

(35:03):
spying.
You're spying, okay.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
You got to see where the other ones are.

Speaker 5 (35:10):
So I've done my spy mission.
That's awesome.
That's pretty cool.
That is awesome.
I've done my spy mission.
That's awesome.
That's pretty cool.
That is awesome.
I have done my spy mission.
Yes, I have.

Speaker 4 (35:20):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
How far away on those when you were running with
carrier groups.
How far away would you get fromsay, Well, I never was actually
in a carrier group Okay, so youwere all around.

Speaker 5 (35:32):
In a fast attack.
So I mean, when I was on it, we,we was independent, we was you
know doing, you know never,never the only time the only
time we got involved, only timewe ever did it with anything
with carry, with a carrier, wejust stopped doing some training
.
I think we did some trainingone time with the USS America,
just training stuff, see if theycan find us, and mostly all the
time, see if they can find us,mostly all the time.
See if they can find us, whichthey can't, no, but actually

(35:54):
being part of a battle groupnever was.
But I've been up in spymissions, I've been to places.
I've been to Guantanamo Bay,cube on a fast-track submarine,
okay, wow, it's kind of weird.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
But yeah, Now, I would imagine during that time
Russia would be the big threat.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
oh yeah see, what's cool about that?
See, I kind of thought all ofthem were kind of attached just
in my own little pea brain.
So that's why y'all were suchbadasses, because you were
getting on them things and youall were.

(36:36):
You were going outindependently like we're saving
you all.
You just don't know we are hereto save the world.

Speaker 5 (36:43):
That's awesome when we won our, when we won on our
spying mission.
You know, the captain's givenorders to go, you're to go here
and and they're calledclandestine operations is what
they're called.
This captain is taking asubmarine to an area and if he

(37:04):
does something we get caught.
He must have been doingsomething.
He must have been going alittle rogue or something.
You know, what I mean.
We don't know what he was doing.
He was a rogue.
He was trying to take thissubmarine and give it to you,
little rogue or something.
We don't know what he was doing.
He was a rogue.
He was trying to take thissubmarine and give it to you.
I guess you know what I mean.
That's what they're going tosay they're not going to back
you.
No, they're not right no, butthis way we we were briefed

(37:28):
duties and responsibilities as aPOW.
They send you like to Searsschool and all that stuff.
No, just right there in themess text.
Xoxo, this is what you're goingto do.
This is what you're going tosay Wow, Because we were.
I guess I can tell you this wewere, you know, a Murmask.
You ever heard of Murmask?

(37:49):
Or Polly Arnie?
No, ever heard of Murmask orPagliardi, no Russian.
Oh, is that like a yes.
Up up.
Yes, I've been there.
Yeah, I've been right there offthe coast of Murmask and
Pagliardi.
You know we would sit there onthe mess decks and we had a

(38:15):
little 19 inch tv up there inthe corner of the mess decks and
and uh, you know you got a dialswitch on the periscope.
Whatever that periscope looksat, you can dial a switch in
that television the mess text tosee what the periscope sees.
So we sit there eating chow fora whole month, for a whole
month up there, and sittingthere eating chow for a whole
month up there, and we waseating chow.
We can see it, the periscope'swatching and we're seeing land

(38:36):
mass.
We're seeing massive elevationsof land mass.
That means we were fairly close, which means we were closer
than 10 miles from land Becauseof the elevation of the hills.
Okay, we were a lot closer manthat's awesome.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
So when you, you know , I know that, seeing some cool
ports and doing pulling in andsome cool places I can imagine
pulling up like, yeah, there's,there's our enemy, right yeah?

Speaker 5 (39:12):
they probably had somebody when we, when we pulled
into guantanamo bay, cuba, aswe, as we were transiting in,
there was a russian uh, cargoship rust bucket coming out we

(39:38):
we were, met him, we were, youknow, our captain gets up there.
He was like, if you're going tobe on this boat, you better
keep up.

Speaker 3 (39:44):
Yeah, I love that's the way he was so was there
quite a bit like on the thosethose.
Were they bigger or are theysmaller?

Speaker 5 (39:54):
Yes, the fast attacks are smaller.
Yeah.
Then the boomers are bigger, ofcourse, because they have the
missile compartment.
Yeah, the missile boats we'reon had 16 missile tubes, jeez.
So you get all this missiletubes there, and so that
submarine is longer and stuff.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Now, what kind of munitions would that be?
Is that like that's probablynukes, nukes.

Speaker 5 (40:17):
One missile carries eight nuclear warheads.
Okay, and there's 16.
Well, you can carry up to 16missiles and each missile can
carry up to eight nuclearwarheads.
Jeez, jeez.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
Okay that's on the menu.
Yeah, that's the end of it.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
Yeah, that's yeah.
That book that I read the otherday, where it kind of maps out
what happens when somebodylaunches a nuke, that's one of
those takes out of everybodyelse.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
Yeah, yeah.
Other day, when they bombedIran and in the nuke, wasn't it
the submarines fired off someshots, I think tomahawks, but
that came off of subs.

Speaker 5 (41:03):
Yes, it did yeah, they take the older, not the
ones, the boomers that I was on.
They're gone now.
They're all razor blades.
Wow.
So we're talking the Kentucky,the Ohio, florida, georgia,
stuff like that.
Go SEC right, right, theyconverted those boats to
Tomahawk.
So those missile tubes, thosethey were the Ohio class boomers

(41:28):
.
They also have more.
They have 24 missile tubes, andtheir missile tubes are a
little bit bigger too, I think.
Hang on a second, I think, don'tquote me on this, but I think
maybe one missile tube can carry, I want to say eight tomahawks
or something like that.

Speaker 4 (41:46):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (41:48):
Yeah, okay, so there's 24 missile tubes at
eight tomahawks, okay.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Now can those be fired from submersed?

Speaker 4 (41:55):
Yes, you can, that's wild.

Speaker 5 (41:59):
That's awesome so those are called SSGNs, guided
whatever.
If you see an SSGN, that's aguided missile.
That's the tomahawks, okay, man, lots of tomahawks okay, and
those Tomahawks can be nuclearas well.
There's three different typesof Tomahawks ones your

(42:22):
conventional nuclear and a thirdone is a bomb, that's.
They fly over airfields mm-hmmthey can drop off bomb.
It's never just pothole a runwayWow, I didn't even know that
that's.
Or if you've got tanks orairplanes laying there, they'd
fly over because it has forward.
The Tomahawks have forwardvision looking radar and they'd

(42:46):
fly over and then just drop bop,bop, bop, just pop airplanes or
runways or tanks.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
They become like bombers.
The bomb becomes a bomber.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah, it's pretty neat, golly.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
That's like science fiction.
Yeah, it is.

Speaker 3 (43:02):
I've read about these , tom.

Speaker 5 (43:03):
Clancy's.
Well, tom see, being a torpedoman, that was stuff that I did
was torpedoes, tomahawks,harpoons, and then, when I was
in on my first fast, that fastattack, we had what's called
Subrock, a submarine-launchedrocket which had like a
10-megaton nuclear warhead on it.
It was an anti-submarine depthcharge.
It would evaporate five squaremiles of water Gosh, and it only

(43:29):
had a 30-mile range.
So go figure, okay, 30 milesaway, this thing is going to
evaporate five square miles ofocean.
So how is this back wave goingto affect me?
The blast zone, right?
So what's the survivability ofthis blast zone or this nuclear
weapon that is fired?

Speaker 2 (43:51):
I would imagine that vacuum filling back would create
yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
I bet that current If you were.
I don't know how far the rangeis, but I would want to be
hundreds of miles away.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (44:05):
But this sub-rock goes up into the atmosphere.

Speaker 5 (44:09):
It goes up into the atmosphere and then free falls
down to you know Whatever depthit goes up into the atmosphere.
It goes up into the atmosphereand then free falls down to you
know, but it's only had 30 milesas far as it goes, even with
its rocket launched, becausemost of that time is going up
into the atmosphere and goingacross.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
That don't take that long, so you're already turning.

Speaker 5 (44:28):
Let's go.
So we're shooting and turningaround and going fast.
We can't go the other way.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
Oh my gosh, I'm so glad you didn't have to use that
.
No.

Speaker 5 (44:36):
Yeah, I'm glad I got rid of it.
It was a pain in the butt.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
Man.

Speaker 5 (44:45):
What was your favorite deployment that you got
to do?
I'm going to have to say thattime we went up north in 84.
Yeah, the time we went up 84and went up north, we did a
little spy mission.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
That was very interesting.

Speaker 5 (44:56):
I bet that would, I would, I bet the whole puzzle
factor was it was we got chased,we chased and we got chased and
it was a bag of four.
There was like three or fourdays there.
You know, you know.
Okay, how many stories you'veheard about people tracking?
Have you ever heard abouttracking a bear?

Speaker 3 (45:15):
I've heard about it.

Speaker 5 (45:16):
When you track a bear eventually you'll come around
to what your own footstep whichmeans it's tracking you it's
just trying to get the game itwas back and forth Cat and mouse
.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
It was back and forth , back and forth.

Speaker 5 (45:33):
Yeah, that's got to be scary Helicopter I mean a
Russian helicopter up therespotted us, Because we were up
there, yeah because if you hadtelescopes out, Well, our
periscope was up.
Periscope was on me.
We spent 30 days with theperiscope up 30 days straight
running with the periscope up 30days straight running with the

(45:55):
periscope wow yes, looking andwatching and recording.
Looking and watching andrecording.
The periscope's got videocameras in it, film cameras,
it's got everything that's whereall those Loch Ness Monster
videos came from.

Speaker 4 (46:10):
It's the periscope man.
What was the day like where allthose Loch?

Speaker 3 (46:12):
Ness monster videos came from.
It was just a parent's episode,man.
What was the deck like and thefuse up where they're at?
I bet the intensity wasdifferent in there.
Did you ever get to go up therewhere they were?
You know, when they were theradios and the seminar?

Speaker 5 (46:28):
Oh yeah, that's pretty much after you get done,
you, after you get done withyour washing dishes and stuff
crank we call it cranking, hey,crank you know hey crank, give
me a refill.
Yeah, uh, you know you do timethe kids.
And what's that purpose of thatis?
To get the crew gets to watchyou.

(46:49):
Yeah, so you're working in thekitchen for 90 days.
You're new, brand new on theboat, so the crew gets to watch
you.
Yeah, so you're working in thekitchen for 90 days.
You're new, brand new on theboat, so the crew gets to watch
you how you work, how you react,and the crew gets a like hey,
crank, give me a dessert.
See, they're poking at youthey're hazing you.
They're already poking at youyeah hey, crank, give me a
refill.
blah, blah, blah.
Hey, crank, you know what Imean.
And they're teaching, they'retesting you the whole time.

(47:11):
You're being tested.
Yeah, that's what's going on.
Yeah, but after you do that,next thing you do, you're going
to move up to what's calleddiving and driving.
That's the driving.
The submarine, okay, you'll seethat looks like a cockpit on an
airplane.
Okay, that's your next.
You move up to that.
That's very interesting.
The periscopes, the firecontrol.

(47:32):
You're right there listening toeverything going on.
You're right there becauseyou're driving that sucker.
You're right there, you'reright in the middle of it,
driving it.
You know what You're 19 or 20years old.
That's what you're doing.
You're driving this daggonesubmarine around through here
and there's all this stuff.
Watch this.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
That's it, holy cow.
I just think about some of theguys.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
I know how scary is that think about you at 19?

Speaker 3 (48:01):
oh, that's why I would never.
I wouldn't qualify to be asubmarine.
My GT score wouldn't have beenhigh enough to get in there.

Speaker 5 (48:10):
Then, once you learn some stripes, you need to go
down and work on your divisionor whatever.

Speaker 3 (48:15):
How many levels?

Speaker 5 (48:18):
There's three levels.
There's an upper middle and alower.
For most parts, what?

Speaker 3 (48:23):
deck was most of the sleeping quarters on.
Does it depend?

Speaker 5 (48:29):
Bow compartment.

Speaker 4 (48:32):
Lower level.

Speaker 5 (48:34):
Yeah, down in the belly and down the way, down the
belly underneath the controlcenter of the belly.
That's where the peterum is,the peterum's back in the belly
where it's the longest we canhave it and the widest Widest.
Yeah, all right, bowelcompartment, spirulina and stuff
.
There's only two levels in thebowel because it's smaller.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
Yeah, yeah, now, did you all have to hot bunk it?
Yes, we did, I was going to sayBecause it's 24-7.
There's not enough box foreverybody.

Speaker 5 (49:01):
So there's also there's temporary berthing in
the torpedo room.
You get these portable box, youstrap them down in the torpedo
reloads and you sleep in there.
That's where where people comeby and poke at you hey wake up,
I'd imagine.
You know, you get your dolphinshit done.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
You go ahead and get qualified.
I would imagine there was allkinds of pranks going on.
Yes, there is.

Speaker 3 (49:25):
What did they do when you crossed the equator?

Speaker 5 (49:28):
They shelled back you off.
Oh yeah, we crossed the ArcticCircle.

Speaker 3 (49:31):
Oh, that's a different one.
I've never heard of that.
What do they do?

Speaker 5 (49:34):
Blue Nose.
Oh, okay, I'm a Blue Nose, yeah, yeah.
So when you go up north, you'regoing to cross the Arctic
Circle and you're a Blue Nose.
There's a ceremony for thatInitiation, yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
Drinking the truth serum.
And what not see?
I didn't know.
I've always heard about theequidron in the south same
concept yeah there's shell backand blue nose.
Yeah, then there's the dateline.
Okay, I don't remember whatthat's called?
Yeah, I've never.
I think.
I've just seen and heard myfather-in-law talk about some of
the just the things they had todo, just goofing off, really

(50:17):
hazing really.
It's good for them, good forcharacter, excellent, absolutely
character building it is acharacter builder hazing.

Speaker 5 (50:25):
Like I said, it gets rid of the ones that can't
handle the pressure.
If you're going to snap underpressure, man, these guys are
going to go.
That's awesome.
I can't.
I've saw a lot of that.
I've saw a lot of guys getwashed out officers too, I mean,
doesn't matter.
Like I said, this fast attack.
I was on our captain.

(50:46):
We had I seen him kick out alot of 03 officers just because
they just couldn't perform up tohis standard.
He'd come to his boat, he'dexpect things done a certain way
and he'd better do it that wayor you're gone.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
Yeah, I'm sure the pressure that the captain I mean
you all were the tip of, thetip of the spear.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:11):
And so there's a performance rating I'm sure that
he was looking for and uhbecause he knew we were going to
go on this run in 84.

Speaker 5 (51:21):
He knew this run was coming up.
You know, we all knew, becauseas soon as I got there the other
guys didn't know we're going to, this is our schedule, we're
going to be doing this, sosudden, something we're going to
be doing.
I I never paid no attention towhat they're talking about.
This northern run thing.
We call it a northern race.
We're gonna go up north andsometime 84.
Okay, it says 83.
Okay, I'm okay.
But then the cap, in themeantime he has to get his crew

(51:43):
ready, all right, so if you cometo his boat, because he didn't
want to take you on a mission ofcritical mission, ryan, you be
a want to take you on a mission,a critical mission, run.
You'd be questionable aboutoperating a submarine like he
wants to.
So if you can't operate asubmarine like he wants to and
we're going to go on a criticalmission, run no, no, no.
I don't like the way you get it.
You've got to go.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Not a whole lot of room for error on that type of
mission.

Speaker 5 (52:08):
No, there's not.
I've seen a lot that got washedout.
It's one thing, I say otherwords, but it has to happen,
yeah.
I mean.

Speaker 4 (52:21):
I would want if I was on a sub and could handle it,
which I couldn't.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
I don't think but, I would want to be surrounded by
people who would also be able tohandle it, so they didn't
that's a whole thing.
Yeah, would also be able tohandle it, so they didn't
jeopardize me.
That's the whole thing.

Speaker 3 (52:33):
Yeah, and I would imagine that that would be kind
of contagious you know that, oh,that 03, that 0, 03, they would
probably really succeed and gowell on a, on a regular, you
know, on a frigate or a boomerboat or missile so many because
they.

Speaker 4 (52:48):
They're a whole lot different different, different.

Speaker 5 (52:51):
Yeah, yeah, you're, yeah, it's just a different,
different concept when you'reout as a hunter and being hunted
because a lot of these old twosor threes, they will come from
a boomer, where it's laid backor whatever.
Then they come to a attack boatand this can't quite like.

(53:12):
This ain't the way we did it onthe way we did it on the used
to fish.
You know what I mean?
Well, no, you know you need tolearn how we do it here.
If you can't learn how we do ithere, you gotta go.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
Yeah, either adapt or get out, that's it.
Yeah, that's, that's reasonable, I think, for that type of
thing.

Speaker 5 (53:30):
Well, you remember you guys, you ever heard of old
Mancuso, the guy that started upthe SEALs team?

Speaker 4 (53:36):
Yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 5 (53:38):
He couldn't run.
He was fat, overweight, drank,partied.
That's what he wanted out ofthe SEAL team.
Mancuso wanted his SEAL teamthe same way.
He wanted a bunch of partiersthat could go out and party all
night and run all day and go dothe mission, come back and party
again that night, all right hewanted a different, a different

(53:59):
kind of freak yeah, just some,some an animal, almost like they
can handle it.

Speaker 3 (54:05):
They can handle this and they can.
Yeah, then they.
They have quite the what istheir retention Like?
Are they graduating 30%?

Speaker 2 (54:16):
or something like that.
It's crazy low, it's a highdropout rate.

Speaker 5 (54:18):
Yeah, so tough, it's hard and a lot of it's just
mental.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
Yeah, a lot of them watch themselves the freak
athletes that are Olympians.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
But I feel like that's something that you'd have
to go into it with the mindsetthat this is the only thing that
you'd have to want.
That's the like you'd have togo into it with the mindset that
this is the only thing that Iwant to do.

Speaker 3 (54:35):
It's the only thing I've ever wanted to do but I
think a lot of them do and I'mgoing to do it a lot of them do,
because if you've got a, backupplan.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
I feel like you're going to go eh.

Speaker 5 (54:46):
I'm going to go home, washout right here.
They're gonna send you back tofleet ship and boat on an
aircraft carrier.
Oh yeah, okay that that's yourmotivation yeah I don't want to
go to an aircraft carrier andship paint yeah, I'm good yeah,
that would be terrible yeah, Ithink they're going to aircraft
carrier and wash dishes orsomething.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
Yeah one of the guys I work with has given him a hard
time.
He's in the marines, of course,I know which one, but that was
uh he they was saying somethingone of the other guys was in the
Navy and I was like, isn't theMarines a department of the Navy
?

Speaker 3 (55:17):
and he's like yeah, it's the men's department, I
pulled that.
Until you say that to acorpsman, then, yeah, this guy's
gonna hurt me, yeah or a SEAL.
I'd say you know being a, youknow military being around, you
know a lot of Navy folks when Iwas in, so you're mostly

(55:41):
corpsman and the medical staff,because Marines don't have
medical and I've got nothing butgood, I've pulled many of my
teeth and all the doctorsers andstuff, but my corpsman I mean,
I got dog bit one time.
Man, they're the ones thatstitched it, they're the ones
that took care of me.

(56:02):
I'm like man, these guys, theseguys are awesome, how's so?
you did your your shore patrolthen, or shore duty that that
had to be from being out thereat the tip kind of like that it

(56:24):
was a relief.

Speaker 4 (56:25):
I was going to say, was that welcomed or was that
kind of like?

Speaker 2 (56:27):
ah, man, I'm going to be bored for a long time.
No, that was okay.
That was a good break.

Speaker 5 (56:31):
Right, it was it was, it was, but going back to a
submarine after that was, thatwas rough.
Yeah, after being on shore fora while and going back to a boat
, it wasn't quite like the firsttime.
Yeah, nah, okay, this sucks.
Yeah, okay, alright, we gottado this.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
Okay, let's go it's the first time, it would be
exciting, yeah, but everything'snew around you.

Speaker 5 (56:56):
Been around them, no it sucks is it like everything?

Speaker 3 (57:03):
like your, your primary MOS, I guess, was
munitions or torpedo, but I'msure you were.
If they needed you to pick up a, come up here and do whatever
you could do that.

Speaker 5 (57:19):
I mean they cross trained and everything.
I was a calibration.
Hang on, let me get thisstraight.
I was a calibration technician.
They sent me to school tocalibrate gauges because in the
pit room we got water gauges, wegot hydraulic gauges, we got
air gauges.
Well, they all got to becalibrated.
So they sent me to calibrationschool how to operate this King

(57:41):
Neutronics calibration equipment.
So I calibrated my gauges andput a little sticker on there
and put the expiration date onit and my name and everything
what I mean so take care of myown stuff.
So I've done that.
I've been to a little careercounseling stuff.
How to do divisional careercounselor stuff free of troops,
okay, you know yeah, trying to.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
I remember our career recruiter type guy.
You know, you come in there andhe's like well, our well, our
battalion's lowest retention inthe Marine Corps right now, yeah
, and your next stops gonna beOkinawa.
You ready, I'm getting outthere goes your retention I was?

(58:27):
I was a you know, stationed inSan Diego and I knew I was gonna
go somewhere.
I was at.
Camp Pendleton out there.
I knew that it wasn't going toget to do another stint out
there, but I was kind of hopingto go back to the east coast or
something.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
I was like, yeah, here we go Okinawa and I just
got married and I was like youwant to go to Okinawa and she
was like nope no, that's notgood, so you wound up in London
instead.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:59):
She went to Okinawa.

Speaker 4 (58:59):
Terrible choice.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
But that was.
I had such a good time, thefriends I made.

Speaker 5 (59:07):
Oh yeah, that right there, it's worth everything.
I just got back Sunday from athree-day reunion.
Right from my first boat I wason.
That's awesome, yeah, yeah, andI saw at least three guys.
The last time I saw them was in85.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
Wow cool, I didn't know that.
I wouldn't think about, youknow, boat crews having reunions
?

Speaker 5 (59:33):
Oh, they do.
I mean boat crews are tight,Boat crews got to be tighter
than tight.

Speaker 3 (59:39):
You know I was.
There was this reunion that wascoming from our battalion.
I was a seventh engineer out insan diego and this, this, uh,
vietnam group was gettingtogether and it was a saturday
and I was so mad they met allweek but they were doing their

(01:00:01):
dog and pony thing on a saturdayand my, my boss, came in.
He's like hey, wash the truck,grease the tires, take that five
ton out there and run it forthe kids.
You know, whatever, let themplay all over it.
So I did, you know.
I went out there and do thewash rack, cleaned it, got it

(01:00:24):
the best I could well where itwas.
I had to go through this mudpit to get turned around, so I
and then them kids dropped likebags of chips everywhere on that
thing so that next Monday theycome in there and look at my
truck and it was destroyed.
It was a five ton or something.
I was like they were like getin the office.

(01:00:45):
And I was like they were like,did you not wash your truck?
I was like yeah, yeah.
I mean they were ready to njbaby.
There I was like oh my god thekids have a house like kids

Speaker 5 (01:00:56):
I didn't need that big chips on.
There.
Yeah, the kids had a good time,as you can see.

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
I mean we had a good time, the people.
But I was like.
They were like we told you toyou know, make it show room
ready.
I said this truck's 25 yearsold.
Yeah, I was like, and I had torun it through mud to get there.
So it was like, oh my gosh, itnever rains in California and it
rained that day, but yeah, butthose reunions are real special.

(01:01:22):
You see them guys get together.
Some of them are injured.
That brotherhood never dies.

Speaker 4 (01:01:32):
I talk to my buddies.

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
We're tight, you know it's, and when you lose one or
something like that, it crushesyou.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
So yeah, yeah and that's it that's a real
brotherhood?

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
it's not I mean it's not like I couldn't imagine how
tight some of you got whenyou're, when you're underwater
and out for a while.

Speaker 5 (01:01:53):
The practical jokes don't stop.

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
I'd say not.
I bet there was some great ones.
I bet there were running jokestoo Frozen pillows.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
Oh my gosh, I mean frozen pillows, which I guess
there's only so much you haveaccess to while you're down
there, but I mean I can imagineyou all got creative.

Speaker 5 (01:02:16):
The mind doesn't stop .
You know what a lot of it.
A lot of that.
We do a trivial and the withthat there be.
I got there's a communicationphone that's like a non this
casual communication phone.
We'll call back trivialquestion and what's this right
about?
Okay, you're gonna end withhoney trivia question and what's
this right?
Okay, and you're going to endwith you'd have questions and
answers on this trivia stuff.

(01:02:37):
That'd be the.
Oh man, I've got to look thisup.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
That's.

Speaker 5 (01:02:40):
We've got to keep your your key morale's got to be
in there.
The only thing you've got is adictionary.
We don't have no Google Rightto Webster's Dictionary or a tag
band or to look something.
That's all you got.
Had to get creativeentertaining.

Speaker 3 (01:02:52):
Morale See morale is different when you're above
water.
I mean you can go like you canhave the entertainment flown in,
say if you was out at awardsand all that.

Speaker 5 (01:03:06):
I wish we could have entertainment flown in, right?
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
I don't know how many times I'd be out there and oh
hey, chris LaDue's playing, youknow back in the day, or hey,
who's some of the people we gotto go.
I mean it was all.
Tom a rodeo.
You know, it wasn't even justthe base stuff they would do
movies.

Speaker 5 (01:03:24):
We would pack, you know, the real to real movies.
We would pack case in a case incases of old reel-to-reel
movies and take them out.
You know, see, for three monthsand, yeah, when we went up,
when we went up that north, thatnorthern run in 84, see, we
left on August 28th of 84 andcome back December 18th of 84,

(01:03:44):
alright, and we took thesemovies with us and I can
remember, towards the end, goingin there in this closet trying
to find a movie and we'd gothrough there.
It's like it got to where wewere pulling up movies.
Anybody heard of this movie?
No, all right, that's whatwe're watching, I bet.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
I could imagine keeping morale up.
Yeah, because a movie only goesto trivia and things like that
would be.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:04:15):
Well, a lot of spades , hearts, oh yeah, board games,
board games, the other boardgame?
I never did.
There was one particular boardgame.
Let me think of this.
I can't think of the name ofthis board game.
It's not a board game, it's apeg board game and a lot of

(01:04:37):
submarine guys play it, but Inever did learn how to play it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
It's kind of like backgammon.

Speaker 5 (01:04:39):
Backgammon yeah, is that it?
It's a card game.
You play with cards and youhave these pegs.
You move around this board, yougo down and start it.
It's like you come down andstart it when you.
It's like you come down, youcome back.
I don't know, yeah, but well, Ijust play.

Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
I play hearts and spades so I bet you got good at
it we play a lot of a lot ofspades.
But we got into rook there fora while when I was over in
belgium and we would get so goodat it we would have to play bad
to try to win.
Yeah, you know.
You know exactly what I'mtalking about you like I know

(01:05:15):
that he's got, you know, the ace, and I'm going to do this to
sandbag just uh, just to try tothought, because we got, that's
what you did in the garden youknow, you're just like.

Speaker 5 (01:05:27):
I see you go back so we, we, we played.

Speaker 3 (01:05:31):
It was an odd combination, but it was rook and
margarita night oh yeah itusually ended up in some kind of
weird fight, but it's okay.
I mean, it just happenssometimes.

Speaker 5 (01:05:42):
That's the way it has to be, so well enough subbed
though see, once any warshipgets 10 miles from land, you can
gamble anything you want.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
I guess that's yeah international, international.

Speaker 5 (01:05:55):
So so every Saturday night it's pizza casino night.
Yeah, keeps the there's yourmorale right there every.

Speaker 4 (01:06:03):
Saturday night pizza, unless you're losing yeah and
that captain didn't care.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
He's playing right with him, I'm sure.
Yeah, what favorite porch everpulled in?

Speaker 5 (01:06:18):
Well, I've only been to so many.

Speaker 3 (01:06:20):
That's a short list, because they probably didn't
pull in a lot, did they?
No, they didn't.
Can't give away them secrets.

Speaker 5 (01:06:25):
The only foreign port I've ever been to is Holy Lock,
Scotland.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
And I would love to go to Scotland.

Speaker 5 (01:06:34):
Was it just so?

Speaker 3 (01:06:35):
remote, that it was easily you know, because I don't
know about that, it's notpulling into.

Speaker 5 (01:06:40):
Well, there was a well, and then I've been to St
Croix, Virgin Islands yeah, thathad to be.

Speaker 3 (01:06:49):
See, it's weird.
That's the difference betweenY'all just do your thing and
come back in.

Speaker 5 (01:06:55):
that's about it, but a lot of swim calls in the
bahamas though.
Yeah, we would.
We would be out, get ready tobe out, do our thing, ready to
come back in the bahamas, and wewould pop up and and uh, still
beaches open.
Take the barbecue grill,topside grill, hamburger, hot
dogs, swim around and come back.
You know, could you be out tosea for three months?
Come back in sunburn.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
Yeah, that's awesome, right that's awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:07:17):
It wouldn't take long , would it really?
No, no.

Speaker 5 (01:07:19):
To come out there and pale.
You go out there and swim inthe ocean for a little bit.
You can get a little rigged andyou get red.
I bet that's.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
Man, yeah, so then you transitioned, you got out
and went into the Bureau ofPrisons.
Yes, I did Any crazy stories inthere, too many I've heard.
Listen, I've got some Marinebuddies that were over there,
you probably know.
And I'm like man, there's somecrazy stuff, I know.

(01:07:49):
I won't mention them off air.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
Do you spend all that time at Manchester prison, all
that time at Manchester?

Speaker 5 (01:07:56):
it's not a maximum, it's a high medium, yeah, but
they have some bad cats thatyeah they'll be guys at a beast
I mean at a penitentiary leveland they will get to where they
will come, to Manchester totransition into a lesser
security and a lot of those guyscan't handle that.

(01:08:19):
They'll go in and pop somebodyin the jaw just to go back to
the penitentiary.
They'd rather be in thepenitentiary.

Speaker 4 (01:08:25):
Too much freedom, yeah, too much freedom.
Too many snitches, oh yeah,people you know there's a
difference between an inmate anda convict.
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5 (01:08:35):
Okay, an inmate don't know how to do his time.
He's usually a short-timerdoing 18 months.
A convict knows how to do histime All right, and he's usually
doing a lot of it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
I would imagine the guys that know that they're not
getting out are the ones thatyou'd have to worry about the
most, or maybe on the butt.

Speaker 3 (01:08:56):
I think they don't want any problems with COs.
No, they don't.
But, they're not going to takemuch crap off those inmates.
No, they're not.
No, they're not Because theydon't want.
If an inmate's in there actingsilly, they're going to try to
shut that down because it's youknow, because you got these
young bucks doing 18 months.

Speaker 5 (01:09:18):
They don't give a rat if they're locked down or not.
These older guys look man, we,they try to.
They can they control theyounger guys?
Listen, we want to stay up.
We don't want to have to eat nocheese sandwiches.
And another thing is, if you'relocked down, you can't gamble.
That's a big thing.
So you're, you're strong,arming.

(01:09:42):
People want to keep everythingquiet.
So you can gamble, you can goto the rec, you can work out,
you can go eat a regular meal,not eat a cheese sandwich in
your cell and have to jackhammeryour crap out.
But yeah, as I say, cheesesandwiches.
Yeah, they stopped up, stopyeah, yeah, it's a was the game,

(01:10:04):
you know the.

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):
Was that a problem in there?
And oh yeah, I mean, you haddifferent, different, uh, folks
that ran different blocks.
Was that how it went you?

Speaker 5 (01:10:17):
got.
You got the keys to the car,whatever you call it, every
other block.
But I know.
I was making my rounds onenight I said, okay, I saw some
and things must be okay, can'tbe that bad.
I walked up to a cell and I sawlet me see if I can get the who

(01:10:38):
was doing what?
First, here I saw a whitesupremacist getting a tattoo
from a black guy.
Hmm, so okay.
So I was like all right, that'sall right, I just walked off.
Okay, I said never mind.
Never mind, a black guytattooing a white supremacist.
Okay, that's not okay.
If that's that's okay, I canhandle that.

(01:11:00):
You know tattooing it right,it's wrong, you know okay, but
the whole, there's a conceptbeing together, yeah, yeah, yeah
.
So I asked a guy, that'sbecause a guy worked for me.
I said the next day or two.
I said hey, man, what was upwith that?
He said well, the dude can draw, he's good, all right so

(01:11:23):
they'll take the talent over.

Speaker 3 (01:11:25):
They'll take the talent right.
Right, it's.
The politics in there isprobably really different.
Yes, it is, huh, it's 20 yearsfrom 20.

Speaker 5 (01:11:39):
20 years.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
So I would say you saw a big mix.
Do you see Aryan Brotherhoodand what is the big?

Speaker 5 (01:11:47):
Every one.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
Let me put it this way.

Speaker 5 (01:11:53):
Let me put it this way you know who the Crips, the
Bloods and say the Latin Kings,the Bureau of Prisons, the Latin
Kings, the Crips and the Bloods, they're not even on the chart.
They don't even look at thoseguys they're.

(01:12:13):
They're so far down the list,okay, they're at the bottom of
the list, okay.
So if you think Crips andBloods and Latin Kings are bad,
the BOPs are not.
They're Sunday school teachers.

Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
Oh my gosh they get a lot of publicity, I guess
outside, yeah, yeah, be thestreet gangs.
They get a lot of publicity, Iguess outside, yeah, the street
gangs.

Speaker 5 (01:12:35):
Now there's bigger dogs than those guys Wow.
Like I say, you've got theblack gangster disciples and
you've got your Serranos out ofCalifornia.
The Latin Kings Mexican Mafia.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
MS-13.
Ms-13.

Speaker 5 (01:12:54):
MS-13s, those guys.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
yeah, I ran into so it was one day we got a call of
something.
It was coming off the Greyhoundand I just went through that
clandestine class with thatin-service and all that.
And there's a black guy got offthe bus and I was just sitting
there talking to him.
I mean he wouldn't part of thecall and I just happened to look

(01:13:16):
down and see his tattoos.

Speaker 4 (01:13:18):
yeah, and I said oh and I said hey, man how long you
been part of the disciples.

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
He's like I don't know what you're talking about,
like he just completely shut meout, walked away man do you
enjoy do you enjoy the obviously20 years?

Speaker 5 (01:13:33):
yeah, I mean it a lot , of, a lot of interesting.
I've had a lot of interestingconversation with inmates.
Okay, yeah, I mean 20 yearsI've had.
I mean, they're listen, they'rejust one guy.

(01:13:55):
He is from cuba.
He was there when I hired him.
He was there when I retired,wow, and the only reason he was
here is just from illegal entryfrom cuba.
They couldn't send him back.
So you can't send him back.
They got to keep him locked up,alright, because a lot of these

(01:14:17):
guys are the Mario Cubans, ifyou want to talk about that.
Mario.
Cubans are the Fidel Castro'sworst of the worst of his
inmates.
So when his prisons were fullback in the 80s he put them on
boats and told them to go toAmerica and don't come back.
He meant that so they wouldcome to America, they would

(01:14:39):
arrest them and send them toBureau of Prisons.
They'd go work in Unicor andmake a show and stuff.
They loved that.
You take a Cuban inmate now, ifhe's making, if he can make
$150 a month in Unicor, well, hecan send $100 of that a month
to Cuba and his family is livinglike royalty, wow, on $100 a
month.
Okay, in Cuba, that's a lot ofmoney, a lot of money, wow.

(01:15:02):
So so their family look up tothem.
Oh, they're in America workingfor unicorn in prison.
They think that's great.
$100 a month, that's great,bringing 100 bucks a month.

Speaker 3 (01:15:12):
That's a different world, different world.
They'd rather be incarcerated.
They would.

Speaker 5 (01:15:17):
If you was to take some of these Cubans and throw
them out the front door, that'dbeat you back to the inside
defense.
Yeah, All right, Sure wouldthat would be.

Speaker 2 (01:15:26):
You know it would be interesting to interview, like a
lot of those guys I tointerview a lot of those guys.
I know, a lot of them wouldn'ttalk to you, but it would be
cool to hear the stories thatthey've got.

Speaker 3 (01:15:38):
I bet some of us, when you have a guy, that's
they're not all.
They're all innocent, aren'tthey?
Not all of them, but you'veheard some heartbreaking stuff,
I'm sure.

Speaker 4 (01:15:52):
Well.

Speaker 5 (01:15:52):
I tell you I've heard some heartbreaking stuff, I'm
sure.
Well, I'll tell you I've heardsome.
Well, there was this truckdriver, I think he was in
Knoxville, Tennessee.
He would go to Texas and bringback some green stuff and call
him a mule and he had been doingjust small amounts over the

(01:16:15):
years as a truck driver, just tohelp put his kids through
college, just to help things,not a whole lot.
His wife had a job, he had ajob as a truck driver and then
his wife was talking one nightover eating a meal and says
honey, he said I need to do onemore run.
One more run, I'm done, I'llquit.
That's the one that always getsyou.

(01:16:35):
That's when he got.

Speaker 3 (01:16:36):
He got caught yeah, yeah, amazing sad because she
stopped.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
Don't know when to stop, yeah yeah, and now I mean,
you look at stuff like that.
Now that's like a slap on thewrist for marijuana.
You know it's not better.

Speaker 3 (01:16:54):
I've seen 1,300 pounds in a truck before.
It's different.
It's got a different smell thanyou.
I was like this don't smelllike what I'm eating.
It's packed in grease and stufflike that.
I was like this.

Speaker 5 (01:17:07):
So that's it, it's interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:17:09):
Yeah, I've seen some cool stuff on the side of the
road too, you're like oh my gosh, it's a.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
It's a different mentality you got to have being
on the the inside workingcorrections it has to be,
because you know on our side ofit and I I got a little bit of a
taste of it when I was workingfor buddy and them doing that on
the inside, seeing the insideand that.
But you know, it's one thingthat we, you know we deal with
the crime we deal with you knoweverything up to that, and it's

(01:17:39):
a different mentality that wehave to have because it's, you
know, we're not, we're right,they're wrong we're putting them
in prison, yeah and then we'redropping them off, but as a
correction officer, you're inthere with them every day every
day, so it's like you can't sowe had that freedom.
We skin them, we catch themit's almost like being a parent
to you.

Speaker 3 (01:17:59):
You are but we go yeah we got a lot more freedom.
That's always what scared me,because I had some interviews.
I was about to go over to, youknow, to interview at the prison
.
I had buddies over there atManchester and I was like this
would be a good job and it wouldhave been, but then I got a
taste of like the police officerside of it.

(01:18:19):
You're like man, I got a lot offreedom.
I can move home, you're right,I can.
I can go over here and stop acar or I can go run this
domestic and and then then I gohang out with the PD for a
minute or not to deal withanybody mom pop shop talking to
gossip yes exactly be at thebarbershop, whatever totally
different job, totally but yethaving to keep the law and order

(01:18:44):
.
You did it inside there.
We tried to do it.
You know we failed a lot, butwe would have you know we would
do our training.

Speaker 5 (01:18:51):
We've had state police come in and do our
training, update us on what'sgoing on with the whatever,
what's going on on the streetthese days.
And they said there's no way.
There's no way they would giveup their gun to go work inside
that fence.

Speaker 2 (01:19:08):
No way.
No, I couldn't do it, I don'tthink not.
I mean, unless you were drivinglike the perimeter truck, then
you're just chasing deer.

Speaker 3 (01:19:20):
I work in a school that's got like a hundred acres
and sometimes I feel like I'm inprison however, I can get in
that car and go right across theroad to the you know the
Mexican restaurant or go to theCVS.
It's real close to me and I'mlike this is easy but there's a
fence around it and you're like,oh my gosh, I feel weird, even
though I have 100% freedom.

Speaker 2 (01:19:41):
It's just different you know, working with those
type of guys, I feel like youwould always kind of be on
eggshells a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:19:47):
You got to do your job, but you say the wrong thing
to the wrong person.

Speaker 5 (01:19:51):
Oh, they try to file a complaint.
Yeah, to shank you.
You got to, as I say, you gotto have communication skills.

Speaker 4 (01:19:59):
All right, yeah, you know what.

Speaker 5 (01:20:00):
Everybody's pretty much watched a movie, the Green
Mile, oh yeah.
I love it Okay how Tom Hanks Ithink with the okay, you got the
other little guy.
That was a little ass, you knowwhat I mean Okay, it's just
like that.
You got some that just can'tcommunicate.
You got some that can you know.
He can tell an inmate to standon his head and he'll stand on
his head.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
That's just the way they are.
It's all about respect, it is.

Speaker 5 (01:20:27):
You got to give respect.
To give respect, I've tried towork, my career.

Speaker 2 (01:20:30):
I mean some people you just can't give respect
because they don't let you.

Speaker 5 (01:20:34):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:20:34):
But I mean, I've always tried to work my career,
that I'm going to give you asmuch respect as you give me.

Speaker 4 (01:20:39):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
And then we'll go from there.
True, yeah, but some peoplejust don't.

Speaker 5 (01:20:46):
I mean, I've given them mates.
I'm 2 o'clock in the morningand they'll be out there
shoveling snow.
And I've walked by a group ofthem and I've come back and said
look fellas, someone needs toeat a fireball.
Alright, boss, I got it, bosssomebody's been drinking a
little hooch before they comeout and shovel snow.

Speaker 2 (01:21:03):
I've done that a couple of times.
Some things I mean overlooksome things.

Speaker 3 (01:21:08):
It ain't worth it well, this has been a fun
interview.
I've learned a lot tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:21:14):
I have too.
This has been great.
I think it might be.
This is the only person I'veever talked to that's ever been
on a submarine.

Speaker 5 (01:21:20):
Yeah, it's cool.
There's only, there's only afew of us.

Speaker 3 (01:21:24):
I can only imagine a few of us thank you for your
service.
I appreciate it.

Speaker 5 (01:21:28):
You're very welcome and I honestly enjoyed the
submarine service very much.

Speaker 3 (01:21:33):
I'm glad.

Speaker 2 (01:21:34):
If you had the chance if you were standing there.
The choice was standing beforeyou.
Would you go back and do it allover again?
Yes, I would.

Speaker 5 (01:21:41):
That's awesome.
That says a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:21:43):
That says a lot.

Speaker 5 (01:21:44):
It was challenging, very challenging, because,
listen, when I was going toschool down at Clay County, I
was not a the best student, allright.
I was like whatever what timewe get a class, I need a leave
early myself.

(01:22:05):
Cut out myself here in a minuteyeah, so joining the Navy helped
me, because before the Navy youwould not catch me in the
library at all.
I'm not going to that library.
Then, after I joined the Navy,I found myself looking at a lot
of books, knowing a lot of techmanuals.

(01:22:27):
I did more reading and techmanual my first two years in
Navin.
I did all of high school.
I was like, oh my God, allright, yeah, all right.
So I learned I had to learnreal quick how to read tech
meals, do a lot of reading, howto do research, just like you
would back in the library doingresearch.

(01:22:48):
It's the same thing and thesame thing.
Working with the Bureau ofPrisons as a lieutenant, you're
doing audits all the time.
You're doing what we callperpetual audits constantly,
constantly going over programpolicies and procedures to make
sure everything's correct.
You know right, and so I wasalways doing that stuff and so

(01:23:08):
you know, yeah, it takes me backto my days.
Okay, what research papers I didduring high school.
Okay, so it takes me back to mydays, okay, what research
papers I did during high school.
Okay, so it takes you back tothose basics and if you need
those basics or researchpaperwork to make it as to doing
your audits and things of thatnature, yeah, oh, I know Would
have took it a lot moreseriously.

Speaker 3 (01:23:28):
Oh, yeah, but you do remember things.
You're like oh yeah, I was likewow, why am I in this typing
class learning now just thatlittle stuff like that?
I was like oh my gosh whenyou're writing reports.
They probably called itsomething different when you was
in, but it was typing my 35words a minute at least I had
that remember

Speaker 5 (01:23:50):
those home keys 35 words and five mistakes.

Speaker 3 (01:23:52):
Yeah, but I mean just little things like that.
You're like oh my gosh, thankyou, Ms Wittenback, for teaching
me how to do that way back inseventh grade or whatever that
was.
It's just different how thatstuff.
I was like I'll never have towrite a paper, paper, I'm going
to this, and then, I don't youknow, go to the police
department.
That's all you do is typereports.

Speaker 2 (01:24:17):
I will say I learned more at KCC about typing reports
.
My report type is a whole lotdifferent than it was when I was
at the PD now yeah, it's wellyou learn the federal way to
yeah it all federal.

Speaker 3 (01:24:31):
I was impressed when I did a case that got adopted by
the ATF.
They bullet point a lot morethings in their cases.
Oh yeah, and it reads a wholelot more, and you probably did
the same thing.

Speaker 2 (01:24:43):
After doing reports there, I looked back at some of
the old PD reports.

Speaker 3 (01:24:46):
I was writing like a third grade level.

Speaker 4 (01:24:49):
It looks like just special ed.

Speaker 3 (01:24:53):
But then when you learn you're, you're like, oh,
that's how you should write apaper you're like or a you know
report.
Yeah, it makes it makeseverybody's job easier to read
it, from the, from the lawyersto the to jurors, to whoever
sees that you know on up theladder, to when it got to the,
to the you know the correctionsite.
Being able to see that's whatthat guy did then Makes more

(01:25:15):
sense From wrecks and all thatstuff.
But thank you again for yourtime.

Speaker 5 (01:25:21):
This has been a lot of fun.
Thanks for inviting me.

Speaker 2 (01:25:24):
Anytime, we'll have you back on.

Speaker 5 (01:25:25):
I'll come back on with you Any of your buddies?

Speaker 2 (01:25:28):
Yes, I do.

Speaker 5 (01:25:29):
If they want to have a reunion, we'll set them up
around here.

Speaker 2 (01:25:30):
Thank you again.
Any of your buddies?
Yes, I do.
If they want to have a reunion,we'll set them up around here,
that'd be perfect.

Speaker 3 (01:25:33):
Thank you again, we enjoyed it.

Speaker 5 (01:25:35):
Well, there's a fellow that lives here in town
that I served with my firstsubmarine.
He retired 22 years and helives here in London.

Speaker 2 (01:25:43):
Yeah, if he wants to.
Not everybody wants to sit andblab with us.

Speaker 5 (01:25:50):
Oh, you'll be here all night long.

Speaker 2 (01:25:53):
That's fine with us.
He'll take the show over.
That's fine with us.
Nobody wants to hear us talk.

Speaker 5 (01:25:58):
He has plenty of submarine stories.

Speaker 3 (01:26:00):
We'll get him on here .
You check to see if he's ready.
We'll have him on, oh he'll beready.

Speaker 5 (01:26:05):
I say you want to do a podcast?
He'll say oh, fuck off, allright.

Speaker 3 (01:26:12):
You two just take over, we'll just sit back and
laugh.

Speaker 5 (01:26:14):
All right, this guy's job in the navy, in the
submarine, his job was tooperate some of that spy
equipment.

Speaker 3 (01:26:22):
Oh, that'd be interesting yeah, okay, check
with him.
Let's get this in schedule.

Speaker 2 (01:26:27):
Yes, sounds great, sounds good, all right, well,
that sounds like somethinginteresting, something to look
forward to All right.
Thank you again, Paul.
You're welcome.
All right, guys.
We'll catch you on the next one.
I did the pre-sign.

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