May 12, 2025 • 23 mins
We tackle a topic that's often judged or ignored in women's circles: it's okay to not want to be a mom. Society places enormous pressure on women to have children, but nearly half of childless adults in America say they never want kids – and that number is growing.
• Jess's sister knew early on that motherhood wasn't for her, though she's a loving aunt and nurturing in other ways
• Steph shares her personal experience of never wanting children, even from a young age
• Recent Pew Research shows 47% of childless adults don't expect to have children, up 10% since 2018
• We explore how women often judge other women for choosing not to have children
• Many women nurture through other means - mentoring, creativity, supporting community
• Discussion of the tension between those struggling with infertility and those choosing to remain childless
• Support for women navigating pregnancy decisions through resource centers and church ministries
• Recognition that everyone's journey is different and deserves respect
Whether you're a mom, an auntie, a teacher, a friend, or simply you – your identity is not limited to motherhood.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jess (00:03):
Hey, welcome back, or welcome to the Jesus Fix it
podcast, the show where we talkabout life, the ups, the downs,
a little pop culture andeverything in between.
Steph (00:12):
I'm Jess and I'm Steph, every other week we dive into
the things we're asking Jesus tofix.
And let's be real, there's alot.
You can always count on us tokeep it real.
Jess (00:24):
Share some laughs with us, and maybe a few tears, as we
tackle the big and small stuffwith faith and honesty.
So grab your coffee and let'sget into it.
Let's talk about somethingthat's often whispered about,
judged or totally ignored it'sokay to not want to be a mom.
(00:46):
Thank you.
First of all, though, HappyMother's Day to all the moms who
just celebrated Mother's Day.
Is that weird to say that afterI said what I just said.
Okay, jess, maybe I should havestarted with Happy Mother's Day
, happy.
Steph (01:02):
Mother's Day.
Okay, you know what SometimesI'm backwards's Day, okay, you
know what?
Jess (01:07):
Sometimes I'm backwards, that's okay.
You know what?
Okay, anyway, y'all, I needsome more coffee, okay.
But seriously, though, peoplewhisper, that's like the thing
that's, I don't know, I don'twant to even say that it's
whispered about in the Christiancircle, I think, just in
(01:28):
general in the women's women'scircle.
Women's world Women's world, notthe magazine, not the magazine.
But seriously, is that still athing?
I think it is.
In some of the groups that I'vebeen a part of, I think it's
been like a taboo type ofsubject oh, you're not a mom or
you don't want to be.
Steph (01:49):
I feel like it is more in the Christian world.
You think so I do, becausesociety says have your career,
make something of yourself first, and then, if you want to
consider having kids, you could.
But you got to make somethingof yourself first and the
stay-at-home mom in society islooked down upon so much, you
(02:11):
think.
Jess (02:12):
I do my sister.
She is 40 something 40.
I think she just turned 42.
I should know how old my sisteris.
I think she just turned 40.
She's either 41 or 42.
She's 40 something.
How about that?
She knows she does not want tobe a mom, does not have that
desire.
She loves being an auntie.
(02:34):
She is the best auntie, lovesbeing an auntie to my boys.
And she said as soon as I hadthose boys she knew this is me,
I am happy being an auntie.
I will love those boys for life.
Anything that I have in thisworld I'm leaving it to those
boys.
But her friends who are marriedwith children are like how could
(02:57):
you not want to have your own?
And it wasn't even a thing withher that I want to have my
career.
She's just like I don't havethat maternal instinct or
feeling, but I think she's verymaternal because she may not be
a mama but she is a mama bear.
So I don't think it's that.
She just knew that if it's upto her to have to birth a child
(03:20):
or be responsible for humansherself, she don't want any part
of that.
Now, if she would have had totake over raising my kids, of
course she would have been downfor that Different story.
But she knew that she didn'twant to actually be a mom
herself and I think that's okay.
But the judgment that she gotfrom her own circle of friends
(03:43):
what do you mean?
You don't want to be a mom andnot all of her friends are
believers, so I can't honestlysay that I think it's a
Christian thing.
Steph (03:52):
I got you.
Jess (03:53):
I think it was just expected that, because she's a
woman, she was expected to bearchildren, expecting.
Steph (04:00):
Right yeah.
Jess (04:02):
Well, I understand Tony.
Steph (04:04):
Yeah, I totally get it, I 43.
Jess (04:07):
No, I gotta think you know how old you are what is up with
this?
Steph (04:11):
I think I'm turning 44 this year now are you forgetting
on purpose?
No, hello.
Menopause or perimenopause,that's a whole different topic
for a whole different day.
But I never wanted to be a mom.
So you're just like my sister.
Okay, I get it, I feel, but Inever wanted to be a mom.
Jess (04:24):
So you're just like my sister.
Okay, I get it.
I feel like there.
I never had that desire.
There are so many others likeyou and my sister, mm-hmm.
Steph (04:32):
Okay, yeah, I mean, I've been doing some research on this
and apparently there is a PewResearch study that just came
out 47% of US adults who aren'tparents say they don't expect to
ever want children.
They don't want to have them,they just don't want kids.
It has increased 10% since 2018.
Why?
Jess (04:50):
do you think it's so hard for us women to accept that
other women don't want to bemoms?
Steph (04:56):
I mean, it's not hard for me to accept that.
I know what you're saying, yeah.
Jess (05:00):
Like somebody like me, like I knew early on I wanted to
be a mom, like I always knewthere was a point that I doubted
it, but I circled back Like I.
Always I played with Barbiedolls up until I was like 14, 15
.
My aunts were worried becausethey were like she is never
going to outgrow playing withBarbie dolls.
(05:20):
They really did.
And my mom was like leave heralone.
I want her to stay young aslong as she can.
And then, like my babies, mybaby dolls were oh my goodness.
I loved playing with my babydolls.
I feel like I was born to be amom.
I love being a mom.
Then, after I had my firstchild, I went through a severe
(05:44):
bout of postpartum depressionand I immediately thought what
have I done?
Why did I do this?
But that all went away and Ithink, oh my word, god made me
to be a mom.
I cannot imagine my life notbeing a mom.
I already know this is one ofthe things God put me here to do
(06:05):
, but I don't knock anybody elseand I actually think it is.
It says a lot that if youalready know that being a mom is
not something you want to doand you decide not to do it,
thank God for you for not.
Steph (06:21):
Do you know what I mean?
Right, no, I told which morepeople more people need people.
Jess (06:25):
If you know that if that is not, then you know what I'm
saying.
Steph (06:30):
Well, and if you find yourself in the position where
you're pregnant and you know youdon't want to be a mom.
There are so many lovingfamilies as a child who is
adopted I was adopted.
There are so many lovingfamilies that are desperate to
love a child.
They're desperate for it Right,and for a variety of reasons,
(06:54):
they either can't have it, theydon't feel like their family's
already fulfilled enough.
They've had natural kids, butthey still want.
Whatever the situation is.
Oh my gosh, like the phrase is,adoption is the loving option,
and it's so true or they're justpeople like me who just want to
be a mom, who just want to be amom and want to love all the
kids.
Right, right, yeah, I mean yeahfor me not wanting to be a mom,
(07:17):
it goes back to like my firstjob ever.
When I was like 12 I did theRed Cross babysitting seminar in
order to be a certified RedCross babysitter and I hated it.
Jess (07:29):
I mean, I knew when I was 12, I did not ever want to be a
mom, you know, I'm gonna have toask my sister because my sister
, both of us were in Girl Scoutsand we were both leaders and
she hated it.
She hated being the leader ofthe younger girl scouts.
She was like I never want to bein charge of littles.
And then we both hadbabysitting jobs and she could
(07:53):
not stand it and this is thething.
Little kids love her.
She used to cannot stand littlekids and little kids absolutely
flock to her.
It's the weirdest, weirdestthing.
Steph (08:04):
It's like an animal when you don't like a specific.
If Jess is around a dog or acat, it's going to come to her
and she's not going to want it.
Jess (08:11):
The dogs love me.
Why?
I am not an animal lover, wouldnever mistreat an animal, but
they love me Right, Same for her.
She loves my boys.
She will be around children.
Never would Loves my boys.
She will be around children.
Never would ever mistreat achild.
But she does not want to bearound children all the time,
but all the kids flock to her.
(08:31):
This is the weirdest thing ever.
And then she was.
She had some type of counselingjob too, Like a summer program
thing, and I think she was maybe13 or 14 and she knew then, not
doing this, not happening.
Steph (08:50):
Huh, yeah, I mean it was.
It was from a very young age.
Jess (08:54):
Y'all were traumatized, huh I guess.
Steph (08:56):
So I mean I married into a family that has some kids, a
lot of kids.
I don't know what defines a lotof kids, but my brother-in-law
and sister-in-law have four kids, yeah, and their age ranges are
like I think the oldest is 16and the youngest is like nine or
ten, right in that time time,that age range.
(09:18):
Okay, I've only been marriedless than two years, so forgive
me for not knowing their ages.
Now I can accept them a bitbetter.
But when my husband, mike, andI first started dating the
youngest he's the youngest ofhis family of five, the youngest
of his nieces she, she and himare just two peas in a pod and I
don't understand it like I lovethat.
(09:39):
He loves her so much.
It is precious.
They facetime each other allthe time.
It is so precious.
Yeah, I couldn't stand her whenI first started dating him
because she was like six orseven and she was attention
getting, attention seeking allthe time and and I'm just like
why?
But that's because I didn'tgrow up with I had one sibling
(10:04):
he was a little bit older.
I didn't have, I was never evenaround like I was never around
a bunch of cousins.
I was never around any othersiblings Like, I was never
really engrossed in what bigfamily dynamic looks like.
And now I can look back and Ican see that I can grow, I can
understand.
Jess (10:19):
Okay, Because I was going to ask maybe you see it as
attention seeking when it wasjust her being a kid.
Steph (10:26):
Right, and that's what it was.
Okay, yeah, yeah, I totally cansee that now.
Okay, I absolutely see that now.
Okay, you know, but at the timeI'm just like what you actually
need care.
Jess (10:38):
Oh my gosh, what is this?
You're six, yeah, yeah.
Steph (10:44):
And now, whenever we do see them, I'm just like give me
the biggest hug.
I just will love on them.
If we lived near them I wouldbe so happy to go and help out
and let the parents have a datenight because good grief for
kids, you know, and that sort ofthing but I'm like give me the
kids in a short amount of time,I'm good yeah.
Jess (11:05):
I'm good, but you know, what else I'm finding is people
like you and my sister and somany others who don't want kids.
I'm finding that God gave youan ability to nurture in other
ways through nurturing to otherpeople's kids, nurturing through
being a mentor or throughleadership or creativity,
(11:30):
because my sister may not be themom type of nurturer, but I see
her nurture in so many otherways.
She's the best dog mama.
But I also see her nurturethrough people at church.
I see her taking care of olderpeople.
She's so creative and she is soartistic artistic and because
(12:01):
she doesn't have kids, she hastime to do so many things and
just perfect that creativity.
Because she's not tied down andI feel like God gave her gifts
that she's able to nurturebecause of her not wanting to
have kids, she's able to growthose things.
Does that make sense, right?
Steph (12:15):
Yeah, I get that.
I think it totally makes senseand I appreciate what you said,
that just because somebody whodoesn't want to have their own
kids doesn't mean that theyaren't a caring, loving person
in another manner.
I really appreciate that yousaid that because I feel that
for myself.
I was at church a couple weeksago and saw they were doing
(12:36):
baptisms and there was a teenagegirl who was getting baptized
but everybody around her weremales Male that was, you know
pastor that was doing thebaptism and a couple other guys
sitting around.
So as soon as she came out ofthe water it was like who's
there?
Nobody was there to envelop herin that towel and just give her
a hug.
Congratulate.
And I understand that separation.
(12:56):
I totally get that male-femaleseparation.
But it broke my heart and ittook everything in me to sit in
that seat and not run up to thefront and grab that towel.
And so then I said to my churchlet me be that person Whenever
you have a female gettingbaptized.
That's how I can help nurtureand I can help out in that way.
That's where I find myselfbeing fulfilled helping others
(13:21):
but still having my own time.
Yeah.
Jess (13:24):
I just feel like we all have a responsibility to embrace
people in whatever seasonthey're in, whatever decision
they make.
But especially as women whodecide whether you want to be a
mom or not, I feel like we havea responsibility to support each
other, because I've heard somany times oh, you're not a mom,
(13:45):
you won't understand.
Right, you know, just becausesomebody isn't a mom doesn't
mean they don't understand,whatever it may be.
Now, sometimes you may notunderstand some of the things,
but somebody had, you Do.
(14:06):
You know what I mean?
And I just feel like justcounting somebody out or
counting another woman out justbecause they don't have kids or
they don't want to have kids,now, sometimes not having kids
is not their choice.
Steph (14:21):
Right, Absolutely.
So you got to keep that in mindtoo.
Jess (14:24):
I just still feel, like you know, sometimes we can be
insensitive and hard on eachother, which is really
unfortunate.
Steph (14:30):
Yeah, it is.
It's so heartbreaking when,like you don't understand
anybody's journey and like youcan say, okay, I've been through
an adoption process.
But if somebody is trying to dolike an adoption process a,
it's expensive, it is veryexpensive, it is difficult,
there are so many things thatyou have to do for that.
(14:52):
And if you're choosing to adoptin the US, I mean, maybe I'm
wrong on this, but I think it ismore difficult than if you
choose to go overseas and try todo adoption, and so if you know
somebody that's walking throughthat situation, like you can
come alongside them, help themout.
That whole sympathizing andempathizing thing.
I get the two confused, but Ifeel like often, as women, we
(15:16):
tend to be a little toome-centric.
Jess (15:19):
Yeah, yeah.
I also feel like there arepeople who, right now, they just
don't know.
I know some.
There's a lady I go to churchwith and she's like I just don't
know right now.
And she is well.
Her and her husband are reallygoing through it because they're
(15:41):
getting it from both sides ofthe family.
You've been married for twoyears and y'all don't know
whether you're going to give usgrandkids or not.
What is the problem?
And they're like we're justenjoying each other.
And right now, honestly, we'rejust having so much fun enjoying
each other.
We don't know.
Yeah, and so the thing is she's35.
(16:02):
And I think he's like 40something.
And they're like okay, time's aticking, y'all got to make up
your mind.
And they're like we don't knowthat we don't know.
And both sides of their familiesare just like pressuring them.
They have just been praying andpraying and I have her
permission, by the way, to talkabout this, but it's I mean,
that's got to be like hurtful,but also that's got to be a lot
(16:27):
of pressure.
Yeah, because that's not aneasy decision to make, and it
tells me that one.
If they just don't, that meansthey're tussling.
You know what I mean, right?
Steph (16:41):
Yeah, they're going back and forth on it, they're
thinking about it, they'retalking about it.
Yeah, and it's one of thosethings where, again, you don't
know, and when you get married,you might have a plan to have
sex, a couple of kids, eight,nine kids, whatever.
It might be Like I've got somefriends.
They're celebrating 10 yearsmarriage this year and they have
not had kids.
(17:01):
They want them, they've beentrying, they just still don't
have them.
And that doesn't mean, like Idon't know their story as far as
if they're looking into fostercare or adoption or whatever you
know other situations, but itcan be so hard and it's like can
be so hard and it's like don'tpressure now they're also 10-ish
(17:22):
years younger than me yeah, youknow so.
So they're still in that moreprime range to be able to have
kids if they still want to tryand naturally have them.
But don't pressure.
I mean, thank goodness, aftergetting married and being 42-ish
whatever I was was, when I gotmarried my mom.
She's so precious around babiesand she loves kids and babies
and all the things.
But she finally realized thather grandbabies have four legs
(17:45):
and fur and that's okay and sheloves them.
And we never grew up with dogsNever.
Our house was not a dog houseMarried into having a dog.
So now our dog goes with uswhenever we travel to go see
grandma, grammy and Grampy, andboth of them love our dog.
And they're happy and contentwith that, but you've got to go
(18:07):
through.
There can be a lot of emotions,there can be grieving, but
don't pressure, just don'tpressure.
Jess (18:13):
Yeah, the grieving process is real, because I have heard
of and witnessed people whoaren't able, or couples who
aren't able, to have children.
I have heard them lash out atcouples who don't want children
because they're like you knowyou can have children.
You don't want children and wecan't have them.
I don't think that's righteither because, everybody's
(18:35):
journey is different and whilewe feel, you know, our heart
hurts for you and we pray withyou for you know wanting to have
children and we are, you know,pray that God blesses you in
that way, I don't agree that youshould, you know, chastise
somebody else because they wantsomething different, and I think
(18:55):
maybe people like that speakout of hurt.
Steph (18:58):
Yeah, yeah, I think you're right.
That is coming out of a hurtfulplace and their journey.
You know, not everybodyunderstands everybody's journey.
Again, I struggle with peoplewho lash out like that because
it's like you want kids, but howdo you want them?
You want them naturally, if youreally really want kids, want
them naturally, if you reallyreally want kids.
(19:19):
There are multiple ways you canhave kids.
Yeah, and they're not alwaysgoing to be through you
naturally giving birth, and soit's like, oh, and being someone
who doesn't want kids, that isa very hard conversation and an
opinion that I don't usuallyshare, because it is.
It's hard for me to say howdare you say you want kids and
you're mad at somebody becausethey have kids.
That I don't usually share,because it is.
It's hard for me to say howdare you say you want kids and
you're mad at somebody becausethey have kids and you don't,
(19:42):
but you want them and you're notwilling to look outside of
other ways other than naturalbirth.
Yeah, again, as an adopted kid,I have different feelings and
thoughts on that.
Um, but again, as an adoptedkid, I want to help, support and
I want to come alongside, likeI have worked at pregnancy
resource centers.
I love what they do.
(20:02):
It's just fantastic work tohelp support single moms, dads
or married families that arejust struggling in whatever way,
and I'm like, yes, let me comealongside and support however I
can.
I just don't want the kids.
Jess (20:17):
Yeah, come alongside and support however I can.
I just don't want the kids.
Yeah.
I love what they do atpregnancy support centers
because whatever decision you'rewrestling with, they don't just
come right out and tell youwhat to do.
They walk you through.
Because we work with severalpregnancy centers and I love how
well the pregnancy centers wework with.
I love how they have a missionand they just walk you through
(20:40):
Moms and dads.
They walk you through whatyou're going through.
They talk you through youroptions.
Steph (20:47):
Come alongside and support and encourage.
Jess (20:49):
Come alongside you encourage you and I just think
it's a beautiful thing and a lotof the pregnancy centers we
work with have Bible studies andit's a beautiful thing what a
lot of the pregnancy centers aredoing these days.
Just want to throw that outthere.
Steph (21:04):
Love that so much, since we're talking about that sort of
thing.
I know that in a lot ofchurches there's a Bible study
group called Embrace Grace.
I love this ministry I thinkthey're based out of Texas and
they're all over and it'sspecifically for single women in
the church who are pregnant.
(21:25):
It is embracing the grace of achild that God is bringing into
the world.
Amazing, amazing Christianorganization.
Jess (21:35):
I have to look that up.
Okay, I've never heard of that.
Steph (21:38):
It's so great and it's a way that churches, specifically,
who are embracing this ministry, are saying okay, everybody
sins.
These people happen to weartheir sin in a way that people
can see.
But we still love you.
We embrace you.
Let's go through this journey.
Jess (21:54):
I love it.
Yeah, well, thank you for that.
I've never heard of that.
Steph (21:58):
Now I'm going to go look it up yeah, so another way that
moms can be supported and we canjust say yes to moms.
Jess (22:06):
We haven't done this in a while.
I'm putting you on the spotbecause I asked first.
You didn't beat me to it.
What do you want?
Steph (22:12):
Jesus to fix.
Jess (22:13):
Oh goodness, I think I'm gonna be a little bit more
light-hearted because we've beenreal heavy in here, okay, and I
want you go ahead and then I'llwrap it up okay, I want jesus
to fix my yard.
Steph (22:24):
there's so many weeds and I've been breaking my back
doing yard work and I justdespise it, so I want him to fix
my yard, jesus would you pleasefix Stephanie's yard?
Jess (22:39):
Amen.
I don't have a, I'm not thebest out loud prayer anyway, but
I appreciate that though,because I know it was genuine.
You can say a real just helpJesus.
A few words, he hears it.
That's great.
I love it and that's just fromyour heart and my prayer was
really from my heart.
(23:00):
Thank you, I'm not the bestprayer.
So there you go, but back towhat we're talking about today.
Whether you're a mom, an auntie, a teacher or friend, or simply
you and you don't want to be amom, your identity is not
limited to motherhood.
Just remember that.
Steph (23:18):
Laughter with your identity is not limited to
motherhood.
Just remember that.
Hey, welcome back, or welcome to the Jesus Fix it
podcast, the show where we talkabout life, the ups, the downs,
a little pop culture andeverything in between.
Steph (00:12):
I'm Jess and I'm Steph, every other week we dive into
the things we're asking Jesus tofix.
And let's be real, there's alot.
You can always count on us tokeep it real.
Jess (00:24):
Share some laughs with us, and maybe a few tears, as we
tackle the big and small stuffwith faith and honesty.
So grab your coffee and let'sget into it.
Let's talk about somethingthat's often whispered about,
judged or totally ignored it'sokay to not want to be a mom.
(00:46):
Thank you.
First of all, though, HappyMother's Day to all the moms who
just celebrated Mother's Day.
Is that weird to say that afterI said what I just said.
Okay, jess, maybe I should havestarted with Happy Mother's Day
, happy.
Steph (01:02):
Mother's Day.
Okay, you know what SometimesI'm backwards's Day, okay, you
know what?
Jess (01:07):
Sometimes I'm backwards, that's okay.
You know what?
Okay, anyway, y'all, I needsome more coffee, okay.
But seriously, though, peoplewhisper, that's like the thing
that's, I don't know, I don'twant to even say that it's
whispered about in the Christiancircle, I think, just in
(01:28):
general in the women's women'scircle.
Women's world Women's world, notthe magazine, not the magazine.
But seriously, is that still athing?
I think it is.
In some of the groups that I'vebeen a part of, I think it's
been like a taboo type ofsubject oh, you're not a mom or
you don't want to be.
Steph (01:49):
I feel like it is more in the Christian world.
You think so I do, becausesociety says have your career,
make something of yourself first, and then, if you want to
consider having kids, you could.
But you got to make somethingof yourself first and the
stay-at-home mom in society islooked down upon so much, you
(02:11):
think.
Jess (02:12):
I do my sister.
She is 40 something 40.
I think she just turned 42.
I should know how old my sisteris.
I think she just turned 40.
She's either 41 or 42.
She's 40 something.
How about that?
She knows she does not want tobe a mom, does not have that
desire.
She loves being an auntie.
(02:34):
She is the best auntie, lovesbeing an auntie to my boys.
And she said as soon as I hadthose boys she knew this is me,
I am happy being an auntie.
I will love those boys for life.
Anything that I have in thisworld I'm leaving it to those
boys.
But her friends who are marriedwith children are like how could
(02:57):
you not want to have your own?
And it wasn't even a thing withher that I want to have my
career.
She's just like I don't havethat maternal instinct or
feeling, but I think she's verymaternal because she may not be
a mama but she is a mama bear.
So I don't think it's that.
She just knew that if it's upto her to have to birth a child
(03:20):
or be responsible for humansherself, she don't want any part
of that.
Now, if she would have had totake over raising my kids, of
course she would have been downfor that Different story.
But she knew that she didn'twant to actually be a mom
herself and I think that's okay.
But the judgment that she gotfrom her own circle of friends
(03:43):
what do you mean?
You don't want to be a mom andnot all of her friends are
believers, so I can't honestlysay that I think it's a
Christian thing.
Steph (03:52):
I got you.
Jess (03:53):
I think it was just expected that, because she's a
woman, she was expected to bearchildren, expecting.
Steph (04:00):
Right yeah.
Jess (04:02):
Well, I understand Tony.
Steph (04:04):
Yeah, I totally get it, I 43.
Jess (04:07):
No, I gotta think you know how old you are what is up with
this?
Steph (04:11):
I think I'm turning 44 this year now are you forgetting
on purpose?
No, hello.
Menopause or perimenopause,that's a whole different topic
for a whole different day.
But I never wanted to be a mom.
So you're just like my sister.
Okay, I get it, I feel, but Inever wanted to be a mom.
Jess (04:24):
So you're just like my sister.
Okay, I get it.
I feel like there.
I never had that desire.
There are so many others likeyou and my sister, mm-hmm.
Steph (04:32):
Okay, yeah, I mean, I've been doing some research on this
and apparently there is a PewResearch study that just came
out 47% of US adults who aren'tparents say they don't expect to
ever want children.
They don't want to have them,they just don't want kids.
It has increased 10% since 2018.
Why?
Jess (04:50):
do you think it's so hard for us women to accept that
other women don't want to bemoms?
Steph (04:56):
I mean, it's not hard for me to accept that.
I know what you're saying, yeah.
Jess (05:00):
Like somebody like me, like I knew early on I wanted to
be a mom, like I always knewthere was a point that I doubted
it, but I circled back Like I.
Always I played with Barbiedolls up until I was like 14, 15
.
My aunts were worried becausethey were like she is never
going to outgrow playing withBarbie dolls.
(05:20):
They really did.
And my mom was like leave heralone.
I want her to stay young aslong as she can.
And then, like my babies, mybaby dolls were oh my goodness.
I loved playing with my babydolls.
I feel like I was born to be amom.
I love being a mom.
Then, after I had my firstchild, I went through a severe
(05:44):
bout of postpartum depressionand I immediately thought what
have I done?
Why did I do this?
But that all went away and Ithink, oh my word, god made me
to be a mom.
I cannot imagine my life notbeing a mom.
I already know this is one ofthe things God put me here to do
(06:05):
, but I don't knock anybody elseand I actually think it is.
It says a lot that if youalready know that being a mom is
not something you want to doand you decide not to do it,
thank God for you for not.
Steph (06:21):
Do you know what I mean?
Right, no, I told which morepeople more people need people.
Jess (06:25):
If you know that if that is not, then you know what I'm
saying.
Steph (06:30):
Well, and if you find yourself in the position where
you're pregnant and you know youdon't want to be a mom.
There are so many lovingfamilies as a child who is
adopted I was adopted.
There are so many lovingfamilies that are desperate to
love a child.
They're desperate for it Right,and for a variety of reasons,
(06:54):
they either can't have it, theydon't feel like their family's
already fulfilled enough.
They've had natural kids, butthey still want.
Whatever the situation is.
Oh my gosh, like the phrase is,adoption is the loving option,
and it's so true or they're justpeople like me who just want to
be a mom, who just want to be amom and want to love all the
kids.
Right, right, yeah, I mean yeahfor me not wanting to be a mom,
(07:17):
it goes back to like my firstjob ever.
When I was like 12 I did theRed Cross babysitting seminar in
order to be a certified RedCross babysitter and I hated it.
Jess (07:29):
I mean, I knew when I was 12, I did not ever want to be a
mom, you know, I'm gonna have toask my sister because my sister
, both of us were in Girl Scoutsand we were both leaders and
she hated it.
She hated being the leader ofthe younger girl scouts.
She was like I never want to bein charge of littles.
And then we both hadbabysitting jobs and she could
(07:53):
not stand it and this is thething.
Little kids love her.
She used to cannot stand littlekids and little kids absolutely
flock to her.
It's the weirdest, weirdestthing.
Steph (08:04):
It's like an animal when you don't like a specific.
If Jess is around a dog or acat, it's going to come to her
and she's not going to want it.
Jess (08:11):
The dogs love me.
Why?
I am not an animal lover, wouldnever mistreat an animal, but
they love me Right, Same for her.
She loves my boys.
She will be around children.
Never would Loves my boys.
She will be around children.
Never would ever mistreat achild.
But she does not want to bearound children all the time,
but all the kids flock to her.
(08:31):
This is the weirdest thing ever.
And then she was.
She had some type of counselingjob too, Like a summer program
thing, and I think she was maybe13 or 14 and she knew then, not
doing this, not happening.
Steph (08:50):
Huh, yeah, I mean it was.
It was from a very young age.
Jess (08:54):
Y'all were traumatized, huh I guess.
Steph (08:56):
So I mean I married into a family that has some kids, a
lot of kids.
I don't know what defines a lotof kids, but my brother-in-law
and sister-in-law have four kids, yeah, and their age ranges are
like I think the oldest is 16and the youngest is like nine or
ten, right in that time time,that age range.
(09:18):
Okay, I've only been marriedless than two years, so forgive
me for not knowing their ages.
Now I can accept them a bitbetter.
But when my husband, mike, andI first started dating the
youngest he's the youngest ofhis family of five, the youngest
of his nieces she, she and himare just two peas in a pod and I
don't understand it like I lovethat.
(09:39):
He loves her so much.
It is precious.
They facetime each other allthe time.
It is so precious.
Yeah, I couldn't stand her whenI first started dating him
because she was like six orseven and she was attention
getting, attention seeking allthe time and and I'm just like
why?
But that's because I didn'tgrow up with I had one sibling
(10:04):
he was a little bit older.
I didn't have, I was never evenaround like I was never around
a bunch of cousins.
I was never around any othersiblings Like, I was never
really engrossed in what bigfamily dynamic looks like.
And now I can look back and Ican see that I can grow, I can
understand.
Jess (10:19):
Okay, Because I was going to ask maybe you see it as
attention seeking when it wasjust her being a kid.
Steph (10:26):
Right, and that's what it was.
Okay, yeah, yeah, I totally cansee that now.
Okay, I absolutely see that now.
Okay, you know, but at the timeI'm just like what you actually
need care.
Jess (10:38):
Oh my gosh, what is this?
You're six, yeah, yeah.
Steph (10:44):
And now, whenever we do see them, I'm just like give me
the biggest hug.
I just will love on them.
If we lived near them I wouldbe so happy to go and help out
and let the parents have a datenight because good grief for
kids, you know, and that sort ofthing but I'm like give me the
kids in a short amount of time,I'm good yeah.
Jess (11:05):
I'm good, but you know, what else I'm finding is people
like you and my sister and somany others who don't want kids.
I'm finding that God gave youan ability to nurture in other
ways through nurturing to otherpeople's kids, nurturing through
being a mentor or throughleadership or creativity,
(11:30):
because my sister may not be themom type of nurturer, but I see
her nurture in so many otherways.
She's the best dog mama.
But I also see her nurturethrough people at church.
I see her taking care of olderpeople.
She's so creative and she is soartistic artistic and because
(12:01):
she doesn't have kids, she hastime to do so many things and
just perfect that creativity.
Because she's not tied down andI feel like God gave her gifts
that she's able to nurturebecause of her not wanting to
have kids, she's able to growthose things.
Does that make sense, right?
Steph (12:15):
Yeah, I get that.
I think it totally makes senseand I appreciate what you said,
that just because somebody whodoesn't want to have their own
kids doesn't mean that theyaren't a caring, loving person
in another manner.
I really appreciate that yousaid that because I feel that
for myself.
I was at church a couple weeksago and saw they were doing
(12:36):
baptisms and there was a teenagegirl who was getting baptized
but everybody around her weremales Male that was, you know
pastor that was doing thebaptism and a couple other guys
sitting around.
So as soon as she came out ofthe water it was like who's
there?
Nobody was there to envelop herin that towel and just give her
a hug.
Congratulate.
And I understand that separation.
(12:56):
I totally get that male-femaleseparation.
But it broke my heart and ittook everything in me to sit in
that seat and not run up to thefront and grab that towel.
And so then I said to my churchlet me be that person Whenever
you have a female gettingbaptized.
That's how I can help nurtureand I can help out in that way.
That's where I find myselfbeing fulfilled helping others
(13:21):
but still having my own time.
Yeah.
Jess (13:24):
I just feel like we all have a responsibility to embrace
people in whatever seasonthey're in, whatever decision
they make.
But especially as women whodecide whether you want to be a
mom or not, I feel like we havea responsibility to support each
other, because I've heard somany times oh, you're not a mom,
(13:45):
you won't understand.
Right, you know, just becausesomebody isn't a mom doesn't
mean they don't understand,whatever it may be.
Now, sometimes you may notunderstand some of the things,
but somebody had, you Do.
(14:06):
You know what I mean?
And I just feel like justcounting somebody out or
counting another woman out justbecause they don't have kids or
they don't want to have kids,now, sometimes not having kids
is not their choice.
Steph (14:21):
Right, Absolutely.
So you got to keep that in mindtoo.
Jess (14:24):
I just still feel, like you know, sometimes we can be
insensitive and hard on eachother, which is really
unfortunate.
Steph (14:30):
Yeah, it is.
It's so heartbreaking when,like you don't understand
anybody's journey and like youcan say, okay, I've been through
an adoption process.
But if somebody is trying to dolike an adoption process a,
it's expensive, it is veryexpensive, it is difficult,
there are so many things thatyou have to do for that.
(14:52):
And if you're choosing to adoptin the US, I mean, maybe I'm
wrong on this, but I think it ismore difficult than if you
choose to go overseas and try todo adoption, and so if you know
somebody that's walking throughthat situation, like you can
come alongside them, help themout.
That whole sympathizing andempathizing thing.
I get the two confused, but Ifeel like often, as women, we
(15:16):
tend to be a little toome-centric.
Jess (15:19):
Yeah, yeah.
I also feel like there arepeople who, right now, they just
don't know.
I know some.
There's a lady I go to churchwith and she's like I just don't
know right now.
And she is well.
Her and her husband are reallygoing through it because they're
(15:41):
getting it from both sides ofthe family.
You've been married for twoyears and y'all don't know
whether you're going to give usgrandkids or not.
What is the problem?
And they're like we're justenjoying each other.
And right now, honestly, we'rejust having so much fun enjoying
each other.
We don't know.
Yeah, and so the thing is she's35.
(16:02):
And I think he's like 40something.
And they're like okay, time's aticking, y'all got to make up
your mind.
And they're like we don't knowthat we don't know.
And both sides of their familiesare just like pressuring them.
They have just been praying andpraying and I have her
permission, by the way, to talkabout this, but it's I mean,
that's got to be like hurtful,but also that's got to be a lot
(16:27):
of pressure.
Yeah, because that's not aneasy decision to make, and it
tells me that one.
If they just don't, that meansthey're tussling.
You know what I mean, right?
Steph (16:41):
Yeah, they're going back and forth on it, they're
thinking about it, they'retalking about it.
Yeah, and it's one of thosethings where, again, you don't
know, and when you get married,you might have a plan to have
sex, a couple of kids, eight,nine kids, whatever.
It might be Like I've got somefriends.
They're celebrating 10 yearsmarriage this year and they have
not had kids.
(17:01):
They want them, they've beentrying, they just still don't
have them.
And that doesn't mean, like Idon't know their story as far as
if they're looking into fostercare or adoption or whatever you
know other situations, but itcan be so hard and it's like can
be so hard and it's like don'tpressure now they're also 10-ish
(17:22):
years younger than me yeah, youknow so.
So they're still in that moreprime range to be able to have
kids if they still want to tryand naturally have them.
But don't pressure.
I mean, thank goodness, aftergetting married and being 42-ish
whatever I was was, when I gotmarried my mom.
She's so precious around babiesand she loves kids and babies
and all the things.
But she finally realized thather grandbabies have four legs
(17:45):
and fur and that's okay and sheloves them.
And we never grew up with dogsNever.
Our house was not a dog houseMarried into having a dog.
So now our dog goes with uswhenever we travel to go see
grandma, grammy and Grampy, andboth of them love our dog.
And they're happy and contentwith that, but you've got to go
(18:07):
through.
There can be a lot of emotions,there can be grieving, but
don't pressure, just don'tpressure.
Jess (18:13):
Yeah, the grieving process is real, because I have heard
of and witnessed people whoaren't able, or couples who
aren't able, to have children.
I have heard them lash out atcouples who don't want children
because they're like you knowyou can have children.
You don't want children and wecan't have them.
I don't think that's righteither because, everybody's
(18:35):
journey is different and whilewe feel, you know, our heart
hurts for you and we pray withyou for you know wanting to have
children and we are, you know,pray that God blesses you in
that way, I don't agree that youshould, you know, chastise
somebody else because they wantsomething different, and I think
(18:55):
maybe people like that speakout of hurt.
Steph (18:58):
Yeah, yeah, I think you're right.
That is coming out of a hurtfulplace and their journey.
You know, not everybodyunderstands everybody's journey.
Again, I struggle with peoplewho lash out like that because
it's like you want kids, but howdo you want them?
You want them naturally, if youreally really want kids, want
them naturally, if you reallyreally want kids.
(19:19):
There are multiple ways you canhave kids.
Yeah, and they're not alwaysgoing to be through you
naturally giving birth, and soit's like, oh, and being someone
who doesn't want kids, that isa very hard conversation and an
opinion that I don't usuallyshare, because it is.
It's hard for me to say howdare you say you want kids and
you're mad at somebody becausethey have kids.
That I don't usually share,because it is.
It's hard for me to say howdare you say you want kids and
you're mad at somebody becausethey have kids and you don't,
(19:42):
but you want them and you're notwilling to look outside of
other ways other than naturalbirth.
Yeah, again, as an adopted kid,I have different feelings and
thoughts on that.
Um, but again, as an adoptedkid, I want to help, support and
I want to come alongside, likeI have worked at pregnancy
resource centers.
I love what they do.
(20:02):
It's just fantastic work tohelp support single moms, dads
or married families that arejust struggling in whatever way,
and I'm like, yes, let me comealongside and support however I
can.
I just don't want the kids.
Jess (20:17):
Yeah, come alongside and support however I can.
I just don't want the kids.
Yeah.
I love what they do atpregnancy support centers
because whatever decision you'rewrestling with, they don't just
come right out and tell youwhat to do.
They walk you through.
Because we work with severalpregnancy centers and I love how
well the pregnancy centers wework with.
I love how they have a missionand they just walk you through
(20:40):
Moms and dads.
They walk you through whatyou're going through.
They talk you through youroptions.
Steph (20:47):
Come alongside and support and encourage.
Jess (20:49):
Come alongside you encourage you and I just think
it's a beautiful thing and a lotof the pregnancy centers we
work with have Bible studies andit's a beautiful thing what a
lot of the pregnancy centers aredoing these days.
Just want to throw that outthere.
Steph (21:04):
Love that so much, since we're talking about that sort of
thing.
I know that in a lot ofchurches there's a Bible study
group called Embrace Grace.
I love this ministry I thinkthey're based out of Texas and
they're all over and it'sspecifically for single women in
the church who are pregnant.
(21:25):
It is embracing the grace of achild that God is bringing into
the world.
Amazing, amazing Christianorganization.
Jess (21:35):
I have to look that up.
Okay, I've never heard of that.
Steph (21:38):
It's so great and it's a way that churches, specifically,
who are embracing this ministry, are saying okay, everybody
sins.
These people happen to weartheir sin in a way that people
can see.
But we still love you.
We embrace you.
Let's go through this journey.
Jess (21:54):
I love it.
Yeah, well, thank you for that.
I've never heard of that.
Steph (21:58):
Now I'm going to go look it up yeah, so another way that
moms can be supported and we canjust say yes to moms.
Jess (22:06):
We haven't done this in a while.
I'm putting you on the spotbecause I asked first.
You didn't beat me to it.
What do you want?
Steph (22:12):
Jesus to fix.
Jess (22:13):
Oh goodness, I think I'm gonna be a little bit more
light-hearted because we've beenreal heavy in here, okay, and I
want you go ahead and then I'llwrap it up okay, I want jesus
to fix my yard.
Steph (22:24):
there's so many weeds and I've been breaking my back
doing yard work and I justdespise it, so I want him to fix
my yard, jesus would you pleasefix Stephanie's yard?
Jess (22:39):
Amen.
I don't have a, I'm not thebest out loud prayer anyway, but
I appreciate that though,because I know it was genuine.
You can say a real just helpJesus.
A few words, he hears it.
That's great.
I love it and that's just fromyour heart and my prayer was
really from my heart.
(23:00):
Thank you, I'm not the bestprayer.
So there you go, but back towhat we're talking about today.
Whether you're a mom, an auntie, a teacher or friend, or simply
you and you don't want to be amom, your identity is not
limited to motherhood.
Just remember that.
Steph (23:18):
Laughter with your identity is not limited to
motherhood.
Just remember that.
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