August 25, 2025 • 20 mins
Church hurt transcends mere offense or discomfort. It encompasses betrayal, judgment, manipulation, exclusion, and sometimes even abuse at the hands of fellow believers or church leadership. In this raw and honest conversation, Jess and Steph share their personal journeys through church hurt, from the subtle exclusion after divorce to the blatant marginalization as single adults in family-focused congregations.
Jess reveals how after her divorce, she continued attending her ex-husband's church only to find herself systematically excluded from service opportunities and community events. "As soon as the ink dried on the divorce papers, everybody started treating me differently," she explains, describing the isolation she felt sitting alone Sunday after Sunday in a crowded sanctuary. Meanwhile, Steph recounts her heartbreaking experience with a church that explicitly prioritized married couples with children, leaving her feeling unwelcome and eventually driving her away from church altogether for several years.
These experiences reflect a troubling reality within many faith communities: people are walking away from church—not because they've lost faith in Jesus, but because they've been wounded by His followers. The consequences are devastating, as believers attempt to maintain their relationship with Christ while disconnected from community, often leading to a "slow fade" from faith.
Yet hope remains. Both hosts emphasize that Jesus was never the problem—He's the healer, not the source of hurt. They encourage listeners to acknowledge their pain without allowing it to destroy their relationship with the One who never fails.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jess (00:02):
Hey, welcome back, or welcome to the Jesus Fix it
podcast, the show where we talkabout life, the ups, the downs,
a little pop culture andeverything in between.
Steph (00:12):
I'm Jess and I'm Steph, every other week we dive into
the things we're asking Jesus tofix.
And let's be real, there's alot.
You can always count on us tokeep it real.
Jess (00:24):
Share some laughs with us and maybe a few tears, as we
tackle the big and small stuffwith faith and honesty.
So grab your coffee and let'sget into it.
I love Jesus, but his childrenget on my nerves, oh yep.
Okay, I know that sounded harsh, I know that sounded ugly, but
that's the truth.
Okay, all right.
(00:44):
Today we're talking aboutchurch hurt.
Steph (00:48):
Loving Jesus, but his people.
We love his people.
Jess (00:53):
We love them, but they get on some of his people, they
hurt us and they get on ournerves.
Legit, yeah, it happens.
Look, we can be real honest.
But that is really.
That's how it is Okay now.
Have you ever experienced?
Steph (01:11):
church hurt.
I have.
Yeah, you know, as we werethinking about some different
topics, and this is one that'srelevant because I think
everybody at some point has hadsome kind of church hurt, and it
just depends on how they'redefining it.
Jess (01:26):
Yeah, now I've.
Okay, should we define churchhurt?
I think that's a good way tostart.
Okay, what's the cartooncharacter who has the bob and
the glasses from the Incredibles?
Do you know who I'm talkingabout, edna?
Steph (01:41):
Oh, okay, real short little lady.
Yes, okay, so we both fit thatcharacter Right.
That's us right now.
Jess (01:47):
Imagine me as her right now.
Okay, church hurt is I feel sosilly.
Okay, church hurt.
It's not just someone sittingin your seat or giving you the
side eye in church.
It can be betrayal, judgment,manipulation, exclusion, because
you know churches have thoselittle cliques.
(02:08):
It can be that abuse by someonein leadership in church or even
abuse by fellow believers.
Steph (02:16):
It can be from neglect, miscommunication, disappointment
.
There's conflict all over theplace, and it just leaves
believers overwhelmed.
Jess (02:29):
Yeah, yeah, I think the first time I experienced church
hurt, I tried to dismiss it andjust say, hey, nobody's perfect,
and I didn't really validate it, if that's how I want to say it
.
I guess I didn't reallyvalidate that it was actually
happening.
I tried to make excuses like,okay, this is church, nobody's
(02:51):
perfect, or you know, I have togive them grace because it's
church.
You know what I mean.
So I just shrugged it off.
But just because it's churchdoesn't mean people are allowed
to hurt you, doesn't mean thatpeople are allowed to abuse you
just because it's happening in achurch.
Steph (03:12):
Yeah, so you are talking as though you've got an
experience.
Jess (03:18):
Yeah.
So I guess, just thinking aboutthis I didn't realize that it
was actually church hurt.
I guess I just didn't evenrealize church hurt was a whole
thing.
My ex-husband and I went tochurch together.
Of course it was actually hishome church and when we got
(03:40):
married I joined his churchbecause I moved to Lynchburg
here with him.
I was living in a whole nothercity, nother town, so I moved
here to be with him and so quitenaturally, I joined his church.
When we got divorced, I lovethat church so much I decided to
(04:00):
stay stay a member of thatchurch because at this time he
stopped going to church.
He stopped going to church withme long before we divorced, so
I was going to church by myselfevery Sunday pretty much, and so
, quite naturally, once we got adivorce I just kept going.
(04:23):
I was going by myself anyway,and it just seemed like once the
ink dried on the divorce papers, everybody started treating me
differently and, mind you, mostof his family went to that
church, even his immediatefamily.
Most of his immediate familystopped going to church on a
(04:45):
regular basis but some of hisextended family and friends were
going there.
But as soon as they knew wewere divorced, they started
treating me differently.
They started excluding me fromevents and when I would
volunteer to serve, all of asudden the seats got full or oh,
(05:05):
there's no room.
But somebody would come behindme and sign up to serve and
automatically there was a spotfor them.
And I was like, wait a minute.
I literally just tried to signup for that spot and there was
no more room.
You had all the help you needed, but somebody else just came
behind me and there was an openspot for that behind me and
(05:26):
there was an open spot for that.
And then I realized, oh, becausehe's not here anymore, because
we're divorced, now I'm nolonger welcome here.
That was just.
That was I don't know.
I just felt so exiled.
I guess that was just the firsttime I experienced that.
And so the pastor I canhonestly say I don't think he
(05:47):
was like that because that's nothow he preached at all, but he
was One of those pastors wherehe was really, really focused on
the word.
And you know the elders and thedeacons, they pretty much just
ran the church and he just gotup there and preached the word.
That was just.
(06:07):
His focus was the sermons, ifthat makes any sense.
Steph (06:10):
You know what I mean.
This could be a whole differenttopic, but like a preacher
versus teacher, exactly.
Jess (06:17):
And so, yeah, I don't really think he knew what was
happening.
I don't think he really knewwhat was going on, and I guess
that's partly my fault, becauseI never said anything.
Once I realized I was beingtreated differently and I was
being shunned, so to speak, Ijust quietly left and joined
another church.
Yeah, I felt like that's whatthey wanted me to do and I felt
(06:40):
like I wouldn't be missed andthat's just what I did.
Steph (06:45):
Yeah, yeah, that is a great a sorry story.
I'm sorry that happened but itis a great example of what
happens often in the church.
I have a friend in the church.
I have a friend she had adaughter out of wedlock and the
(07:05):
church that she had been, shegrew up in, she had served with
the children's ministry.
An amazing person who loveskids so much and as someone who
appreciates that kind of aperson that much more, I really
can say she loves kids.
But when the church learnedabout this pregnancy it almost
(07:27):
drove her to end the pregnancyand now her daughter is.
She had her daughter, she'shealthy, she's 13.
So this was a while ago.
Had her daughter, she's healthy, she's 13.
So this was a while ago.
But they told her you're nolonger allowed to serve.
(07:48):
You can come to church, you canbe in the service and that is
it.
She left that church and I knewher at the cusp of her leaving
and we actually both ended up ina church that was very
welcoming to come alongside herand just recognize that she had
repented from what happened andchose life for her daughter.
Beautiful moment Church hurthappens.
(08:11):
I remember gosh, I don't evenknow how many years ago it was
for me, but single in my mid tolate 20s, really looking to what
I wanted to be married I wantedto be that typical two, you
know, white picket fence, twoand a half kids, dog and cat.
(08:32):
You know, married household.
Quote-unquote typical, happy.
American family, whatever youwant to call it, and I got
involved in a church that wasyoung, it was a startup, met in
high school so it was in a biggym auditorium, but it was
thriving, like so many peoplethat were there and I was new to
the area, which was hardbecause I didn't have any
(08:53):
friends Tried to get involved,sat down and had lunch with the
pastor and his wife Said how canI get involved?
What's your young adultministry look like?
And they were only a few yearsolder than me but they'd been
married for a while, they hadkids and the big emphasis in
that church was on bringing upfamilies.
And if you didn't have kids andyou weren't married, you just
(09:17):
kind of got pushed to thewayside.
And I addressed that with thepastor and he said to me the
important thing and the biblicalthing is that you have a family
and we raise up Christianfamilies.
And I'm like so everybody elsejust gets overlooked.
You've got, yeah, like whatabout the people who are widowed
?
What about people who are notof a quote, unquote typical
(09:42):
married age?
Like what do you do with people?
Jess (09:44):
who aren't married yet.
Exactly.
Steph (09:46):
Single people, single people, which is where I was.
They still need.
Jess (09:48):
Jesus and need to be ministered to until God brings
them someone Right.
Steph (09:53):
Find that community?
No, that church emphasizedbeing married and having a
family, and I walked away fromchurch for a couple of years
because of my experience there.
It was that traumatic and thatharmful to me.
Yeah, see this is.
Jess (10:14):
I guess, once I knew better and realized that church
hurt is really a thing, becausewhen I finally did talk to
somebody about this, they toldme that church hurt wasn't a
thing, that it was just churchoffended, that it wasn't hurt.
I was just offended and I'mlike, ok, maybe I was just
(10:36):
offended.
Then I started thinking abouteverything and I was like, no,
all, I was just offended.
Then I started thinking abouteverything and I was like, no,
all those things weren't in mymind.
This was a big church I don'twant to call this church out,
but it was one of the biggestand oldest churches in the city.
So many members and I'm talkinghundreds of members a week, and
(10:57):
I was sitting on a back pew bymyself.
So you have this many membersand I am sitting by myself and
I'm like, no, all of thesethings are not in my head.
I have thick skin.
I'm okay with, you know, beingby myself, but just being
ignored in church is not okay.
(11:19):
So I know all of these thingsaren't in my head.
So when I, you know, got smartabout it and realize okay, this
church hurt is really a thing.
This is not just a made up,that something people made up.
Then it infuriated me, becausepeople are actually walking away
from community.
People are walking away fromchurch, actually walking away
(11:40):
from community.
People are walking away fromchurch because they are getting
hurt inside of what is supposedto be a hospital for the broken.
So then where do they go whenthey're seeking, when they're
needing Jesus, if they can't goto the one place they're
supposed to be able to go forcommunity, for relationship?
If you can't be safe and okayin there, where are you supposed
(12:04):
?
Steph (12:04):
to go.
Yeah, and that's where I walkedaway for a while and I had a
really good friend that I wasvisiting, probably two years
after this situation happened,and there was a song by Casting
Crowns Out called Slow Fade, andthis friend, her name's Mary.
We were driving around and thatsong came on the radio and she
(12:25):
was driving.
She just kind of slowly turnedthe radio up because she could
see how far I had strayed andshe just started.
You know, that was a way shewas ministering to me and I
remember that moment so clear,because that's the moment Jesus
said you're mine, I have notforgotten about you.
It might look like this slowfade that you've walked away,
(12:50):
but you can also come back.
You can always come back.
He wants us to come back.
Jess (12:55):
Hmm, yeah, wants us to come back.
Yeah, I even got to the pointbefore I found my church now and
, like you, I didn't want to goand I sat down and I was like
you know, I can still followJesus if I don't go to church.
Sure, you can, but is ithealthy?
Because you need community.
(13:19):
You need community and I needto hold myself accountable
because for a while, especiallyafter that happened, I didn't go
to church for a while.
And then we all know that yearwe don't want to mention when we
couldn't go inside the buildingand you get used to not going.
(13:42):
I got used to having BedsideBaptist with pastor sheets on
the iPad.
I was eating my muffins anddrinking my coffee, having
church on the iPad.
I would roll over, have churchon the iPad and watch the
service and go back to sleepuntil eventually I was like, oh,
I don't even need to like watchchurch today.
(14:03):
I mean, I work at Spirit FM, Ilisten to Christian music all
day long, I can get ministeredto that way.
I have my quiet time.
And then I was like, wait aminute, what am I doing?
Like it does make a difference.
You need that community, youneed that relationship in my
opinion.
Steph (14:20):
I wholeheartedly agree with you on that.
Yeah, and when I finally movedto a place like physically moved
to a different state, gotinvolved into a previous church
before I moved down here, that'swhere I found community.
Having that communityencouraged and challenged my
(14:42):
relationship with Jesus andallowed growth to really happen.
And it was a healthy church.
And the church I was involvedin was one that had a variety of
groups for people that havegone through church without
calling it that they had griefshare.
They had divorce care.
(15:02):
You know specific groups ofpeople who are leading this.
That's been through divorce.
Embrace Grace an amazingorganization getting on my
little soapbox here but anamazing organization that is
Christian, church-led, to comealongside women who are in an
unplanned pregnancy and they'resingle.
(15:23):
Oh that's cool and it is in thechurch.
Women who are in an unplannedpregnancy and they're single oh
that's cool, yeah, and that is,it is in the church, you know.
So there are ways that, as wehave gone through church hurt
and you seek out that churchthat says I recognize stuff has
happened, but I want to comealongside you.
And there are churches thatoffer that and I know around
(15:46):
here there's tons of them.
Jess (15:48):
Yeah, Well, you just can't .
You can't, in the middle ofministering and being the church
, you can't forget that peopleare still human, people are
going to people.
Yep, and I think it was KirkFranklin.
He was doing some interview andpeople were like, well, kirk,
(16:13):
you go here and I saw you dothis and about 10 years ago you
said this but you always get onstage and you proclaim Jesus.
And he was like hold up, holdup, I love Jesus, but I'm not
him.
And I'm like, oh, hold up, Ilove Jesus, but I'm not him.
And I'm like, oh, my goodness,that is the best way to say it
(16:34):
we love Jesus, but we're not him.
We want to point people to Jesusall day, every day.
But the lady who comes tochurch, who just had a baby out
of wedlock, we want to ministerto her and tell her that Jesus
still loves her.
The addict who has fell on andoff the addiction wagon, who
(16:56):
showed up in church and isseeking and asking for help
Don't they deserve to beministered to and asking for
help?
Don't they deserve to beministered to?
The divorced lady who justwants to come to church and just
wants a better life and justwants to be loved and loves
Jesus, doesn't she deserve to beministered to?
(17:18):
Just like everybody else, thisis the place for relationship,
for fellowship, and I guess Ifeel like, as believers, we are
more than just the building.
Steph (17:39):
We are the church.
Yes, yeah, exactly, and nobodyin church is perfect.
Nobody needs to look perfectbecause we aren't perfect, and
so we really need to comealongside anyone who walks
through the doors no matter whatthey look like, If they're that
, you know.
Adorable little lady who has onher pearls and her little purse
(18:02):
and she has on her gloves andher hat and she just looks so
dressed to the nines becauseit's sunday morning.
Jess (18:08):
You just described her.
You just described how mygrandma used to look in church.
Steph (18:13):
Right, you see it right, but you don't know what her
story is.
You don't know what's going onbehind the scenes.
Yeah, or that person, who, whoyou're not even sure what gender
they're deciding to say theyare.
You don't know, you don't know.
And they're walking throughthat door seeking Jesus.
They don't need to be hurt byother Christians and by people
(18:38):
who are in church.
We do not need to judge.
It is not our job.
Yeah, yeah, judge it is not ourjob.
Jess (18:42):
Yeah, yeah, and I will say this If you are experiencing,
have experienced church hurt,and if you are in between
churches right now, jesus wasnever the problem.
(19:10):
He's the healer, he's not thehurt, and I think that is the
one thing I wish that I wouldhave just held on to when I
stopped going to church and Iknow I was in between churches,
but I wish I just would havejust found churches to visit,
even if I just would havevisited a different church every
Sunday until I was trying tofigure it out, instead of taking
just a long break in between,because I think that's what we
do sometimes when we experiencechurch, we just quit going or we
(19:33):
get mad at Jesus or whatever itis, because he's not the one
who hurt us, it's people.
People are going to people,they be people every single time
.
And it's not him, it's people,and it's okay to acknowledge
your pain, but don't let itsteal your relationship with the
(19:58):
one who never, ever fails you,ever, fails you ever.
So I know we didn't do thislast episode, but if there's one
thing that I could have Jesusfix this time, it would be that
you remember that.
Hey, welcome back, or welcome to the Jesus Fix it
podcast, the show where we talkabout life, the ups, the downs,
a little pop culture andeverything in between.
Steph (00:12):
I'm Jess and I'm Steph, every other week we dive into
the things we're asking Jesus tofix.
And let's be real, there's alot.
You can always count on us tokeep it real.
Jess (00:24):
Share some laughs with us and maybe a few tears, as we
tackle the big and small stuffwith faith and honesty.
So grab your coffee and let'sget into it.
I love Jesus, but his childrenget on my nerves, oh yep.
Okay, I know that sounded harsh, I know that sounded ugly, but
that's the truth.
Okay, all right.
(00:44):
Today we're talking aboutchurch hurt.
Steph (00:48):
Loving Jesus, but his people.
We love his people.
Jess (00:53):
We love them, but they get on some of his people, they
hurt us and they get on ournerves.
Legit, yeah, it happens.
Look, we can be real honest.
But that is really.
That's how it is Okay now.
Have you ever experienced?
Steph (01:11):
church hurt.
I have.
Yeah, you know, as we werethinking about some different
topics, and this is one that'srelevant because I think
everybody at some point has hadsome kind of church hurt, and it
just depends on how they'redefining it.
Jess (01:26):
Yeah, now I've.
Okay, should we define churchhurt?
I think that's a good way tostart.
Okay, what's the cartooncharacter who has the bob and
the glasses from the Incredibles?
Do you know who I'm talkingabout, edna?
Steph (01:41):
Oh, okay, real short little lady.
Yes, okay, so we both fit thatcharacter Right.
That's us right now.
Jess (01:47):
Imagine me as her right now.
Okay, church hurt is I feel sosilly.
Okay, church hurt.
It's not just someone sittingin your seat or giving you the
side eye in church.
It can be betrayal, judgment,manipulation, exclusion, because
you know churches have thoselittle cliques.
(02:08):
It can be that abuse by someonein leadership in church or even
abuse by fellow believers.
Steph (02:16):
It can be from neglect, miscommunication, disappointment
.
There's conflict all over theplace, and it just leaves
believers overwhelmed.
Jess (02:29):
Yeah, yeah, I think the first time I experienced church
hurt, I tried to dismiss it andjust say, hey, nobody's perfect,
and I didn't really validate it, if that's how I want to say it
.
I guess I didn't reallyvalidate that it was actually
happening.
I tried to make excuses like,okay, this is church, nobody's
(02:51):
perfect, or you know, I have togive them grace because it's
church.
You know what I mean.
So I just shrugged it off.
But just because it's churchdoesn't mean people are allowed
to hurt you, doesn't mean thatpeople are allowed to abuse you
just because it's happening in achurch.
Steph (03:12):
Yeah, so you are talking as though you've got an
experience.
Jess (03:18):
Yeah.
So I guess, just thinking aboutthis I didn't realize that it
was actually church hurt.
I guess I just didn't evenrealize church hurt was a whole
thing.
My ex-husband and I went tochurch together.
Of course it was actually hishome church and when we got
(03:40):
married I joined his churchbecause I moved to Lynchburg
here with him.
I was living in a whole nothercity, nother town, so I moved
here to be with him and so quitenaturally, I joined his church.
When we got divorced, I lovethat church so much I decided to
(04:00):
stay stay a member of thatchurch because at this time he
stopped going to church.
He stopped going to church withme long before we divorced, so
I was going to church by myselfevery Sunday pretty much, and so
, quite naturally, once we got adivorce I just kept going.
(04:23):
I was going by myself anyway,and it just seemed like once the
ink dried on the divorce papers, everybody started treating me
differently and, mind you, mostof his family went to that
church, even his immediatefamily.
Most of his immediate familystopped going to church on a
(04:45):
regular basis but some of hisextended family and friends were
going there.
But as soon as they knew wewere divorced, they started
treating me differently.
They started excluding me fromevents and when I would
volunteer to serve, all of asudden the seats got full or oh,
(05:05):
there's no room.
But somebody would come behindme and sign up to serve and
automatically there was a spotfor them.
And I was like, wait a minute.
I literally just tried to signup for that spot and there was
no more room.
You had all the help you needed, but somebody else just came
behind me and there was an openspot for that behind me and
(05:26):
there was an open spot for that.
And then I realized, oh, becausehe's not here anymore, because
we're divorced, now I'm nolonger welcome here.
That was just.
That was I don't know.
I just felt so exiled.
I guess that was just the firsttime I experienced that.
And so the pastor I canhonestly say I don't think he
(05:47):
was like that because that's nothow he preached at all, but he
was One of those pastors wherehe was really, really focused on
the word.
And you know the elders and thedeacons, they pretty much just
ran the church and he just gotup there and preached the word.
That was just.
(06:07):
His focus was the sermons, ifthat makes any sense.
Steph (06:10):
You know what I mean.
This could be a whole differenttopic, but like a preacher
versus teacher, exactly.
Jess (06:17):
And so, yeah, I don't really think he knew what was
happening.
I don't think he really knewwhat was going on, and I guess
that's partly my fault, becauseI never said anything.
Once I realized I was beingtreated differently and I was
being shunned, so to speak, Ijust quietly left and joined
another church.
Yeah, I felt like that's whatthey wanted me to do and I felt
(06:40):
like I wouldn't be missed andthat's just what I did.
Steph (06:45):
Yeah, yeah, that is a great a sorry story.
I'm sorry that happened but itis a great example of what
happens often in the church.
I have a friend in the church.
I have a friend she had adaughter out of wedlock and the
(07:05):
church that she had been, shegrew up in, she had served with
the children's ministry.
An amazing person who loveskids so much and as someone who
appreciates that kind of aperson that much more, I really
can say she loves kids.
But when the church learnedabout this pregnancy it almost
(07:27):
drove her to end the pregnancyand now her daughter is.
She had her daughter, she'shealthy, she's 13.
So this was a while ago.
Had her daughter, she's healthy, she's 13.
So this was a while ago.
But they told her you're nolonger allowed to serve.
(07:48):
You can come to church, you canbe in the service and that is
it.
She left that church and I knewher at the cusp of her leaving
and we actually both ended up ina church that was very
welcoming to come alongside herand just recognize that she had
repented from what happened andchose life for her daughter.
Beautiful moment Church hurthappens.
(08:11):
I remember gosh, I don't evenknow how many years ago it was
for me, but single in my mid tolate 20s, really looking to what
I wanted to be married I wantedto be that typical two, you
know, white picket fence, twoand a half kids, dog and cat.
(08:32):
You know, married household.
Quote-unquote typical, happy.
American family, whatever youwant to call it, and I got
involved in a church that wasyoung, it was a startup, met in
high school so it was in a biggym auditorium, but it was
thriving, like so many peoplethat were there and I was new to
the area, which was hardbecause I didn't have any
(08:53):
friends Tried to get involved,sat down and had lunch with the
pastor and his wife Said how canI get involved?
What's your young adultministry look like?
And they were only a few yearsolder than me but they'd been
married for a while, they hadkids and the big emphasis in
that church was on bringing upfamilies.
And if you didn't have kids andyou weren't married, you just
(09:17):
kind of got pushed to thewayside.
And I addressed that with thepastor and he said to me the
important thing and the biblicalthing is that you have a family
and we raise up Christianfamilies.
And I'm like so everybody elsejust gets overlooked.
You've got, yeah, like whatabout the people who are widowed
?
What about people who are notof a quote, unquote typical
(09:42):
married age?
Like what do you do with people?
Jess (09:44):
who aren't married yet.
Exactly.
Steph (09:46):
Single people, single people, which is where I was.
They still need.
Jess (09:48):
Jesus and need to be ministered to until God brings
them someone Right.
Steph (09:53):
Find that community?
No, that church emphasizedbeing married and having a
family, and I walked away fromchurch for a couple of years
because of my experience there.
It was that traumatic and thatharmful to me.
Yeah, see this is.
Jess (10:14):
I guess, once I knew better and realized that church
hurt is really a thing, becausewhen I finally did talk to
somebody about this, they toldme that church hurt wasn't a
thing, that it was just churchoffended, that it wasn't hurt.
I was just offended and I'mlike, ok, maybe I was just
(10:36):
offended.
Then I started thinking abouteverything and I was like, no,
all, I was just offended.
Then I started thinking abouteverything and I was like, no,
all those things weren't in mymind.
This was a big church I don'twant to call this church out,
but it was one of the biggestand oldest churches in the city.
So many members and I'm talkinghundreds of members a week, and
(10:57):
I was sitting on a back pew bymyself.
So you have this many membersand I am sitting by myself and
I'm like, no, all of thesethings are not in my head.
I have thick skin.
I'm okay with, you know, beingby myself, but just being
ignored in church is not okay.
(11:19):
So I know all of these thingsaren't in my head.
So when I, you know, got smartabout it and realize okay, this
church hurt is really a thing.
This is not just a made up,that something people made up.
Then it infuriated me, becausepeople are actually walking away
from community.
People are walking away fromchurch, actually walking away
(11:40):
from community.
People are walking away fromchurch because they are getting
hurt inside of what is supposedto be a hospital for the broken.
So then where do they go whenthey're seeking, when they're
needing Jesus, if they can't goto the one place they're
supposed to be able to go forcommunity, for relationship?
If you can't be safe and okayin there, where are you supposed
(12:04):
?
Steph (12:04):
to go.
Yeah, and that's where I walkedaway for a while and I had a
really good friend that I wasvisiting, probably two years
after this situation happened,and there was a song by Casting
Crowns Out called Slow Fade, andthis friend, her name's Mary.
We were driving around and thatsong came on the radio and she
(12:25):
was driving.
She just kind of slowly turnedthe radio up because she could
see how far I had strayed andshe just started.
You know, that was a way shewas ministering to me and I
remember that moment so clear,because that's the moment Jesus
said you're mine, I have notforgotten about you.
It might look like this slowfade that you've walked away,
(12:50):
but you can also come back.
You can always come back.
He wants us to come back.
Jess (12:55):
Hmm, yeah, wants us to come back.
Yeah, I even got to the pointbefore I found my church now and
, like you, I didn't want to goand I sat down and I was like
you know, I can still followJesus if I don't go to church.
Sure, you can, but is ithealthy?
Because you need community.
(13:19):
You need community and I needto hold myself accountable
because for a while, especiallyafter that happened, I didn't go
to church for a while.
And then we all know that yearwe don't want to mention when we
couldn't go inside the buildingand you get used to not going.
(13:42):
I got used to having BedsideBaptist with pastor sheets on
the iPad.
I was eating my muffins anddrinking my coffee, having
church on the iPad.
I would roll over, have churchon the iPad and watch the
service and go back to sleepuntil eventually I was like, oh,
I don't even need to like watchchurch today.
(14:03):
I mean, I work at Spirit FM, Ilisten to Christian music all
day long, I can get ministeredto that way.
I have my quiet time.
And then I was like, wait aminute, what am I doing?
Like it does make a difference.
You need that community, youneed that relationship in my
opinion.
Steph (14:20):
I wholeheartedly agree with you on that.
Yeah, and when I finally movedto a place like physically moved
to a different state, gotinvolved into a previous church
before I moved down here, that'swhere I found community.
Having that communityencouraged and challenged my
(14:42):
relationship with Jesus andallowed growth to really happen.
And it was a healthy church.
And the church I was involvedin was one that had a variety of
groups for people that havegone through church without
calling it that they had griefshare.
They had divorce care.
(15:02):
You know specific groups ofpeople who are leading this.
That's been through divorce.
Embrace Grace an amazingorganization getting on my
little soapbox here but anamazing organization that is
Christian, church-led, to comealongside women who are in an
unplanned pregnancy and they'resingle.
(15:23):
Oh that's cool and it is in thechurch.
Women who are in an unplannedpregnancy and they're single oh
that's cool, yeah, and that is,it is in the church, you know.
So there are ways that, as wehave gone through church hurt
and you seek out that churchthat says I recognize stuff has
happened, but I want to comealongside you.
And there are churches thatoffer that and I know around
(15:46):
here there's tons of them.
Jess (15:48):
Yeah, Well, you just can't .
You can't, in the middle ofministering and being the church
, you can't forget that peopleare still human, people are
going to people.
Yep, and I think it was KirkFranklin.
He was doing some interview andpeople were like, well, kirk,
(16:13):
you go here and I saw you dothis and about 10 years ago you
said this but you always get onstage and you proclaim Jesus.
And he was like hold up, holdup, I love Jesus, but I'm not
him.
And I'm like, oh, hold up, Ilove Jesus, but I'm not him.
And I'm like, oh, my goodness,that is the best way to say it
(16:34):
we love Jesus, but we're not him.
We want to point people to Jesusall day, every day.
But the lady who comes tochurch, who just had a baby out
of wedlock, we want to ministerto her and tell her that Jesus
still loves her.
The addict who has fell on andoff the addiction wagon, who
(16:56):
showed up in church and isseeking and asking for help
Don't they deserve to beministered to and asking for
help?
Don't they deserve to beministered to?
The divorced lady who justwants to come to church and just
wants a better life and justwants to be loved and loves
Jesus, doesn't she deserve to beministered to?
(17:18):
Just like everybody else, thisis the place for relationship,
for fellowship, and I guess Ifeel like, as believers, we are
more than just the building.
Steph (17:39):
We are the church.
Yes, yeah, exactly, and nobodyin church is perfect.
Nobody needs to look perfectbecause we aren't perfect, and
so we really need to comealongside anyone who walks
through the doors no matter whatthey look like, If they're that
, you know.
Adorable little lady who has onher pearls and her little purse
(18:02):
and she has on her gloves andher hat and she just looks so
dressed to the nines becauseit's sunday morning.
Jess (18:08):
You just described her.
You just described how mygrandma used to look in church.
Steph (18:13):
Right, you see it right, but you don't know what her
story is.
You don't know what's going onbehind the scenes.
Yeah, or that person, who, whoyou're not even sure what gender
they're deciding to say theyare.
You don't know, you don't know.
And they're walking throughthat door seeking Jesus.
They don't need to be hurt byother Christians and by people
(18:38):
who are in church.
We do not need to judge.
It is not our job.
Yeah, yeah, judge it is not ourjob.
Jess (18:42):
Yeah, yeah, and I will say this If you are experiencing,
have experienced church hurt,and if you are in between
churches right now, jesus wasnever the problem.
(19:10):
He's the healer, he's not thehurt, and I think that is the
one thing I wish that I wouldhave just held on to when I
stopped going to church and Iknow I was in between churches,
but I wish I just would havejust found churches to visit,
even if I just would havevisited a different church every
Sunday until I was trying tofigure it out, instead of taking
just a long break in between,because I think that's what we
do sometimes when we experiencechurch, we just quit going or we
(19:33):
get mad at Jesus or whatever itis, because he's not the one
who hurt us, it's people.
People are going to people,they be people every single time
.
And it's not him, it's people,and it's okay to acknowledge
your pain, but don't let itsteal your relationship with the
(19:58):
one who never, ever fails you,ever, fails you ever.
So I know we didn't do thislast episode, but if there's one
thing that I could have Jesusfix this time, it would be that
you remember that.
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