August 12, 2024 • 46 mins
Jim Serpico interviews Angelo Competiello, also known as Mind Machine on Instagram. Angelo shares his experiences visiting Italy and observing the regional differences in Italian cuisine. He discusses his family's roots, his passion for traditional Italian foods, and his current venture of running a specialty shop in Suffern, New York. Topics include the authenticity of Italian American dishes, the nuances of using different meats and cheeses, and the influence of social media on culinary careers. Angelo also touches upon the value of maintaining traditional cooking practices.
Show Notes
00:35 Travel Stories and Childhood Memories
02:29 Discovering Italian Heritage
04:08 Guest Introduction: Angelo Competiello
06:18 Italian American Cuisine and Traditions
15:51 The Mortadella Craze
18:57 Alta Irpinia and Family Roots
21:01 Running a Specialty Shop and Pizza Business
22:33 The Evolution of a Salumeria
23:06 Balancing Business and Passion
23:50 Choosing the Right Location
25:04 Crafting a Unique Culinary Experience
29:17 The Impact of Food Network Appearances
32:27 Social Media and Its Role in the Food Industry
34:25 Exploring Traditional Bread Recipes
39:12 The Art of Wood-Fired Cooking
44:24 Becoming a Taste Ambassador
46:07 Final Thoughts and Farewell
Follow Angelo on Instagram at @mind_machine
To get more information about the Unsliced Restaurant System, visit https://getunsliced.com or email Mike@getunsliced.com
Visit Jim Serpico on Instagram at @sidehustlebread
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/jim-serpico-bread-for-the-people-sourdough-pizza-life--5704379/support.
Show Notes
00:35 Travel Stories and Childhood Memories
02:29 Discovering Italian Heritage
04:08 Guest Introduction: Angelo Competiello
06:18 Italian American Cuisine and Traditions
15:51 The Mortadella Craze
18:57 Alta Irpinia and Family Roots
21:01 Running a Specialty Shop and Pizza Business
22:33 The Evolution of a Salumeria
23:06 Balancing Business and Passion
23:50 Choosing the Right Location
25:04 Crafting a Unique Culinary Experience
29:17 The Impact of Food Network Appearances
32:27 Social Media and Its Role in the Food Industry
34:25 Exploring Traditional Bread Recipes
39:12 The Art of Wood-Fired Cooking
44:24 Becoming a Taste Ambassador
46:07 Final Thoughts and Farewell
Follow Angelo on Instagram at @mind_machine
To get more information about the Unsliced Restaurant System, visit https://getunsliced.com or email Mike@getunsliced.com
Visit Jim Serpico on Instagram at @sidehustlebread
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/jim-serpico-bread-for-the-people-sourdough-pizza-life--5704379/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Jim Serpico. And this should I start with?
My name?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
What should I start with? This is bread for the people.
Do you like it like this? Welcome to bread? Or
do you like it like this? Welcome ready, Welcome to
bread for the people?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Mine? Is there a script.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
All the people?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Is this thing on? Welcome to bread for the people.
I'm Jim Cirpico. It's August, everybody. Are you guys traveling?
I'm getting ready to go to Denver myself traveling with
three other couples, my wife and three other couples. One
of the things I love about traveling with groups, whether
it's family or friends, it brings out the most fucked
(00:48):
up stuff about your friends that you never knew existed.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
So I'm looking forward to see what happens because they
my friend's got some quirks. But when we travel together
on this one, it's going to be interesting. I remember
as a kid growing up in Long Island, my father
was known as a hothead. Sometimes he couldn't control his emotions,
and before he took us on a plane, we would
do a lot of road trips and we would drive
(01:15):
somewhere within two hours from Long Island and It was
my first vacation that I remember. There might have been
some before, and we were taking a car trip. I
think it was upstate New York, and I remember the hotel.
Motel was called Tamament, and he was out of his
mind because we weren't in the car soon enough. He
was screaming. It already started stressful. It didn't seem like
(01:36):
this vacation was going to be fun. I get in
the car, I threw up, like I always do on
a two hour road trip. They had to pull over
clean it up. We get to the hotel to meet
another family. So my father was a trumpet player. This
guy was a drummer. We were vacationing together. They were
coming from New Jersey and they unpacked the car and
(01:57):
my father realizes he forgot his suitcase, so he goes
ban He jumps back in the car. He leaves us there,
and he drives back to Long Island, takes a nap.
The front door was open. The neighbor's kids came in.
He's sleeping in his underwear. They told me that story
when I got home. Finally gets back in the car,
(02:20):
goes Tamim, plays tennis with my mother and the other
couple and pulls his hamstring and the vacation was insane.
That being said, traveling is an important part of life.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
It does open your mind to a lot of things.
Growing up as an Italian American, I thought I knew
what being Italian was, and when my father took us
on the Perillo tour, I realized it was nothing like
I expected it to be. The food was different, some
(02:56):
of it was amazing, some of it was mediocre. That's
the other funny thing.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
It's not like every single person in Italy he's a
great cook. That kind of makes me laugh too. It's
just like here, man, there's plenty of people that don't cook.
It's the same way all around the world. But there
are people who are into it and it is a
way of life for a lot of people. And as
an adult, I took my family to Italy, not on
(03:21):
Perillo tours, and we took a cooking class in Florence,
and that's what hooked me on my journey. So here
I am making pizza and bread. I'm excited to talk
to my next guest. For several reasons. I've been an
admirer for a long time over Instagram. You all may
(03:45):
know him by the name of mind Machine. Others know
him as the Poor Ketta King. And one of the
reasons I'm really interested is I have a porketta right
now in my refrigerator, and I'm going to a Ghosnie
met up tomorrow and I plan to do a porketta
and hot cherry peppers and garlic oil pizza.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
So I would like to get into that. Please welcome Angelo, competiel.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Ho are you doing? What's up?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
How you do?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Man?
Speaker 1 (04:14):
You're in Italy.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I am surrounded by Italy at.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
The moment, So that's a really real back there.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
This is where I am. There is no green screen here.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
It's so beautiful. It could be a great screen, it
really could. So what part of Italy are you in?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
The town is Musco. It's in Ipenia, which is the
area my father's somewhere, about fifteen minutes or so from
where my father grew up. And it's the mountains, about
an hour eastward from Naples, and its just place I
love to be.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
So you started traveling there when you were a young kid, right?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Actually, no, my father worked a ton more than any
human should, but for us, so we our trips growing
up were you know, going down the shore. My father
would maybe meet us for a day and a half,
or I'd go away with my mother, my sisters. I
didn't get to Italy till I was twenty six years
old on my honeymoon. So but I crammed it in.
(05:17):
I'd go average about three times a year, so I've
been here. I loved somewhere around forty times. Maybe I'm addicted.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
What was the most surprising thing about Italy the first
time you ever went.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Well, the first time I ever went, was the difference
in the food, like you had you had mentioned, I mean,
growing up, we had a lot of authentic Italian, but
we also had a lot of Italian American. My mother
is American born. My father came here, came here, well,
went to America, I should say, when he was a
young kid, so you know, a lot of Italian American
influence went to his business and you know, other businesses
(05:53):
like it. So you know, there was a lot that
I knew, and it was mostly the food from my
grandparents and my parents, and it was just custom food
at home. By going to Italy, and you know, from
one city to another, one province to another, even one
house to another, just the difference in styles and flavors
and just the diversity of it was crazy. I mean,
(06:15):
it blew my mind and made me what I am.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
That's something I wanted to get into. Is like I
think the Italian American culture was like this melting pot
of all the different regions because it is so drastically
different depending on where you are. And up until I
was doing some research on you, I was under the
impression that Italians don't eat pepperoni and don't know from it,
(06:42):
because when I went to pizza school with some Italians
that were teaching from Naple, they would make fun of it.
But it does seem there is a region that was
using pepperoni the all time.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I mean, pepperoni is.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
And a big passion of mine is understanding how Italian
American cuisine be came what it is and started. And
pepperoni was derived, you know, mostly from Calabre's immigrants who
couldn't really mimic their Sothisia the Calabria, and uh, you know,
the availability of ingredients was different here, and it became
you won't find pepperoni anywhere here. The name the word
(07:18):
pepperoni is for a bell pepper here. I do know
plenty of Italians who, even if they won't admit it,
enjoy it. I love it. I'm a Tinian American through
and through, you know. But uh, you know, uh, Southern
Italian has a lot of spicy salamis, and you know
that that that Southern kind of spicy. I mean, pepperoni
has a natural spicy. I wouldn't say it's like a
(07:40):
spicy salami, and especially if you like if you like heat,
it's got a little kick. But you know, when it
comes to pepperoni, I mean, I still know a lot
of times are like it's like against their religion and
stuff like that, but you know, it's it's It's definitely
derived from a Calibre's style salami that but it's still
different and I and I appreciate that. And I'm a
(08:00):
big proponent of Italian American food, and I'll fight to
death over how much I love it because it's it's
its own cuisine, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
So my friend's daughter met her boyfriend studying abroad and
then getting a job in Milan, and her boyfriends from
Naples and he's in town now and next this Monday,
they have me coming over with my little food trailer
and twenty two of our friends for me to make pizzas,
(08:33):
and I do plan to do the pepperoni in for
trouble from this guy.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Well, you know, listen, the crazy part is is And
I've been on either side of the battles because I'm
a big lover tradition and I'm of traditional Italian and
I'm also a big protector of Italian American you know, pride.
So if they have an open mind, and I have
a lot of Italian friends who love Penny Baxen, love
chicken palm, and love pepperoni, then I think they would
(08:58):
love it. Most of the time when they try it,
they love it. But it's that getting them to try
a part that sometimes can be a little iffy. But
you know what I've I have friends here who have
butt sticks to pepperoni too, and I like it.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Oh yeah, hilarious.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Now coming from the background that you come from, your
I mean, you're actually a butcher too, right.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
That's how it all began. I mean, my father initially
was a butcher with the other makers. My father and
my uncles and a bunch of guys who started together
in Brooklyn in the early seventies, and I grew up
mostly butchering, making sausage, cutting meats for the case, doing
all kinds of stuff like that, and then making cheese.
And then as time went on, you know, less people cooked,
(09:41):
so we cooked more, you know. But as a teenager,
I was making a few thousand pounds of sausage a weet,
you know, helping my father out, helping his guys out
for his stores. And I'll always consider myself a butcher first,
even if I butcher less than I ever have in
my career now. But that's what we are at Cores
is work butchers, but butchers in general.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, so perjutto Deparma, this guy brought in a leg
of producta Deparma. And now I go to an Italian
specialty distributor that you may know of San Zone, and
I get like the highest end perjucto I could buy
when I'm making my Scotch Chota sandwiches.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Is there how much? And they do the same thing
with the olivefoil so and I'd use partana on those sluggages.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I use the cheap stuff when I'm mixing it in
something else, but I use partana only on my sandwiches.
And is there difference, Like it's the projudo this guy
is going to bring in going to be that.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Well, you know, the thing is like a lot of
stuff we get in America is amazing. A lot of
stuff here. The only time it would be better is
because maybe the practices or the ingredients in the process
of making something doesn't hit our USDA standards to come here.
We also have the idea of things being vacuum sealed
and refrigerated and shipped. And the time, you know, Italy,
(11:04):
you can go to a Salumetti and get prejuto that
has never been vacuum sealed. It doesn't have you know,
you see all these fantastical, you know stories on a
TV of like the humidity and the breeze from the
river po coating the coulatello, and that's great, but you
go to jail if you do that in the United States.
So you know, it's there is a lot better that
(11:26):
doesn't come here, and it's mostly for those reasons, but
it's also a lot especially I think with olive oil
and product those are two great examples of the cost
and the the you know, effort it takes for some
of the best producers and stuff to get it to
the United States. I mean, there's people around here that
make some of the best stuff you'll ever try. But
you know it's a small boutique farm or small boutique
(11:47):
salumi futuo, and their quality is outrageous, but they probably
couldn't even produce enough to export. They they or they
don't have the financial means to get all the certifications,
and a lot of them won't even you know, bend
their their method to fit what would take it to
be exported.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
So yeah, it's similar to a craft brewery around here,
right who's specializing in their thing and they serve it
locally and they're not necessarily going to expand and uh.
And it's also the ambiance. We know that you're eating
it there, it's going to be special.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
That's another part of it. But you know, it's I
always being as though we've been in the Italian retail
business as Salumidia operators selling cured meats and cheeses from here.
You know, when you taste the cheese you buy in
New York, New Jersey wherever, that's outrageous when you try
it at the place it's made, when it's never been
you know, it's packed in plastic and shipped out or never.
(12:46):
I mean, if you try a piece of pecorina that's
never been in a refrigerator, it's like whoa, you know,
And those are the differences, you know. And you know,
there's always been the joke people saying, oh, they keep
the good stuff for them. You know. Of course, there's
plenty of companies that they're best product. They don't want
to water down or release to everyone, or they just can't.
(13:08):
But it's like you said, the ambiance, and it's the
fact that you're here, you drink wine on the on
the property, it's made. It's always better. How much is mental,
I don't know, but yeah, I mean I'm a big
believer in that. I mean, there's great pajuto in the
United States, there's great olive oil. Partana is great all over.
They're good friends of mine, you know, Samson carries phenomenal products.
(13:30):
I love those guys lovely. I've done pop up, I've
done to pop up there and hung out with them.
You know. It's but you know, it's there's some people
that are like, oh, you can't get the good stuff here,
it's all and it totally not true. But there's a
lot of good stuff here.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Wait, did you do the porketta pop I.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Did at the pop up. Yeah, we had a pork
at the pizza and I work at the sandwich.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
I was there, you were you were there? Great, now
now it's coming back. I was there, yes, now it's
I was there.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
I believe it was COVID time, so I believe I
was probably in a mask. So yeah, we went through
a lot of work at the really good time. That
was a great pop up.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
I had no idea, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Sorry. I helped Anthony falcom and pop up there as well.
I've been out there just to visit the guys. It's
a cool place and I love what they're doing. It's
it touches my heart because it's like a super sized
version of the stores we always had our families that
my father still has and mind sort it is, so
it's I love it.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
It's a tough business man, definitely.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
The retail part of that is uh specialized, and I
think people aren't as the generations go on, it's not
the same and I don't know if there's as much demand,
which makes it tough well, but it also makes it interesting,
you know, when on a smaller scale, when I'm doing
stuff in my trailer and people just got back from
(14:48):
Italy well Florence and they see the sandwiches that I have.
That's that's when I get the most compliments and interest
when people have come back.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
That's the best thing now. But growing up in the business,
you could only get the Italian stuff for the most part,
and stores like ours. Now you can go to even
a regular supermark and get a dop for shoot of
the podlay. Would it be the quality that we would have,
Maybe not, but it's still pretty dune good and that
didn't exist back then. And you know, back then we
knew something was on the Food Network or something because
(15:19):
people would ask for it. It's like who asks for
being called though, Like we can't even sell this now
if somebody's asked about it. Now people go to Italy
more than they did, or there's social media and you
see and hear about things you never had, so you
know it also social media and all the connection does
add more misconception and mis education as well, but that's
always going to be. But you know, people come to
(15:41):
my store to buy stuff that I'm like, they're asking me,
do you sell call the Tura and I'm like, wow,
getting it in I didn't know you'd buy it, you know,
So it's it's cool.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Right, what's going on with this? More to Della crave.
Is it as big in Italy as it is here?
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Oh? Most of those huge here? I mean, of course,
And it's big everywhere. You can get Mortadella anywhere there's
Mortadella lab stores here. Morzidell's my favorite cured meat of
all time. I mean, it's hard to call it a
cured meat. It's really a cooked meat. But you know,
it's huge here, bigger than ever. I'm glad because I've
(16:17):
always loved it. When I was a kid, it was
like the kids in my school were like, oh, that's
like gross boloney, and why does it have like white
parts in it? And stuff? But any fame or notoriety
Mortadella can get. I am totally all about.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
So do you always put it on as a finisher
or do you ever put it on pre bad?
Speaker 3 (16:38):
For the most part to finish, it's used as a finisher,
But it really cooks very really well. I mean we've
made you know, versions of pizza ustica with Mortadella. I've
even done a crazy lasagna, which I'm going to do
once it gets cooler that has a thin layer of
mortodella in the middle. We've cooked it on pizza. It
cooked really well. I mean we've all had fried Bloni sandwiches,
(17:00):
We've all had like stuff like that. So you know,
I love doing stuff, and I'm going to do more
with the weather. I'm trying to be as tuned with
the heat because I can eat ragu in August. But
you know, but a cooked mortadella is something special, charred,
a little crisp. I love it.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I put it on top and I pre bake it sometimes.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Because also, I got to tell you, I'm surprised how
many people like being involved with pizza, as both of
us are, and we probably follow a bunch of accounts
associated like a big part of my social media is
looking at other people's stuff and you see them more toadella,
But there's a lot of people that don't know what
(17:42):
it is, which shocks me, you know, shocks me.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Growing up in the New York metropolitan area, there's so
many things that are just everyday common to us, even
if you know the majority, if not everybody. But yeah, no,
I've been around the country, especially doing food shows, and
it's like no clue and that's where it hurts me
to do it. But it is similar. I say Italian bologne.
(18:05):
You know, Bologne is named after Mortadella because it's from Bologna. Yeah,
it's uh uh.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
This woman laughed at me when I said it. She's like, no,
it's not. And that's the easiest way to describe it.
It seems like it's somewhat similar.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah, it's basically. I mean, that's why it's I was
told that's why it's called Bologne. It's Bologna. We say Bologne.
I don't know where that came from, but you know,
it's and that's the only way. But when people try it,
you know, of course it's a different flavor. I mean
some are smokier than others and tapped closer to the
Bologna thing. But yeah, it's it's shocking to me sometimes
how many people don't know a lot of things. But again,
(18:41):
it's been so accustomed to you and I. Where we
grew up, it was you know, normal.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yeah, explain alta your pina alta a.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
It's uh out is the is the pronunciation. It's where
I am now. Is this region which is official unofficial
region which is mostly made up of the province of Avellino,
and it's the mountainous area in Avellino, and it's an
alpha is the higher part, which is where we are,
(19:16):
which is higher in the mountains as you could see.
So you know, growing up, my father left here when
he was young. And you know, the idea of the
romanticism of Italy doesn't always exist for people that live
in Italy because it's just where they live. We don't know,
you know, as much as we learned years later. So
I never knew Alfina it really was. It was it
(19:39):
was just that thing. It was just a name you
heard once in a while. I knew my follow was
from Avellino. I knew it was Santangiolo de Lombarddi. But
when I got into the Alpinia thing and I started
learning more about it and this like respect of the
ingredients of the land and the people, the hard work.
It's a hard place and it's very known for devastating
(19:59):
earth quakes and mountains. And you know, to this day
you drive around here and there's ninety year old ladies
in their gardens. You know, it's like super old school
in a lot of ways. So it's basically you know,
and I'm getting a lot of people contacting me because hey,
you know, my father is from Group Tominada and I
didn't know that's in their opinia. And that's so cool
(20:20):
that you have a store and I have people coming
in my store that see the name and they're from
towns here, and it's like, you know, it became a
thing of an identity thing, you know, to really like
hold on to that. You know, my father and his siblings, parents,
they they left because it was poor and wanted a
better life. And to me, I want to, you know,
(20:41):
pay homage to like the roots that they couldn't, you know.
And I'm lucky to be able to fortune to be
able to choose to like push it. I don't want
people to understand. That's why I'm here now doing my
doing my research and meeting with farmers and doing all
that so Atterirpenia is the highest part of yeah right here.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
And so your shop is selling meat and cheeses because
I noticed that the pizza that you're doing is basically
Thursday through I think.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
So we're open Thursday through Saturday, and that's going to
be our schedule. We may one day add on Sunday,
but it's set up. Now.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
When you say that, though, is that just a pizza?
Speaker 3 (21:21):
No, that's that's everything. We open eleven am and we have,
you know, a pocotia made in the wood fired oven.
We do some Roman style like paala usually Friday and
Saturday as well, but five pm every night starts my
version of like Neapolitan inspired wood fired pizza.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I never heard of that concept in format from anyone else,
Like to me, that's all the stuff I bake.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Yeah no, and I love that. Yeah no, it's it's
you know what. It started because I grew up in
the Slumiti in the butcher shop. I love it. I
had my store for twelve years in White coth My
father has been doing it since he's twelve thirteen years old,
and it's hard to get it out of my system.
I fell in love with cooking more than butchering, and
of course the necessity of it was there more. And
(22:06):
then I really got obsessed with pizza and does and everything.
So when I when I signed the least, the idea
was originally to be a commissary kitchen for private parties
and consulting and just doing my thing, and I said,
you know, I'm a pizza place. You know, I really
feel like I'm learning and getting better at pizza and
understanding it more, if it can ever be truly understood.
(22:29):
But right away I was like, can't. But I can't
ditch any perjuto here. I have to make what I've
been making for a few decades, and you know, how
can I not do it? And then it became a
saluminia with a pizza oven, and so that's where we are.
We're you know, we're a saluminia kind of gosnomia. You know,
we don't sell the butcher meats anymore. I'd like to someday,
(22:53):
but yeah, it's just like if they, you know, Hudson
Valley Magazine put it not so Salumitia, not so pizza
area kind of a label.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
On it, and that's it great different different.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I'm really interested selfishly in the business side because I'm
I'm behind you many years and I'm trying to figure
it out. But this is what I want to do,
a version of it, you know, So what kind of
neighborhood because because obviously a lot of pizzerias are open
seven days a week because the margin is so long,
(23:30):
which at this stage of my life I'm not that
interested in and I you're probably working the other days
because you've got preferments and you have to mix and
you have to get ready. But it's it's possible to
pay the rent, and are you at it like a
like an industrial area.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
You know, count of suffering. I live less than ten
minutes from for the last fifteen years, and it's like
this gateway to the Hudson Valley town I feel like
it's been you know, not like ignored, but kind of
put on the wayside because of the Hudson Valley towns
that have gone bigger and the Bergen County New Jersey
(24:10):
towns that surround it. And I've always loved it. I
love the downtown. I love the feel. I didn't, you know,
I want to be in a shopping center anymore. You know,
it's got this old feel and they used it for
parts of the Irishman movie because of that, and like,
you know, but I just wanted a home base. I
wanted a place to plant my feet. So there did
(24:32):
a lot of traveling to cook and Suffering gave me
the opportunity to like not pay the Bergen County rent
prices anymore and give myself away to you know, do
private parties, so I'm not open every day do when
I can work with these companies I work and travel with.
I'm fortunate to have built a pretty decent reputation in
(24:53):
the area and I have people that you know, on
the weekend will travel to me. So right now it's working.
Of course, I have a ton of money to pay
back from building it out, But you know, I don't
want to be a seven day a week place anymore.
My store with seven days a week, I don't. I'm
not afraid of the hours because I'm working just as
many hours now. I want something to be special. I
(25:15):
don't want it to be just a place for good food.
I want it to be a place that you go
for the crazy stuff we make and for the focus.
And to me, you know, I took basically almost four
years off of the business, still working but sporadically and
parties and not you know, I may you know, not
making the money I did or putting in the hours
(25:36):
I did. And I realized how much I don't need
to make to fulfill what I want to do with
my career and where I'm at now, and where I'm
at now is to be focused and do make the
best food I ever could and make the things I
always wanted to make that I couldn't being in the
old design. And you know, it's you know, it's it's
(25:58):
cliche now I think fortunately to say passion project, but
it is, this is like my kitchen and I want
people to come and eat with me, and you know
I don't. I don't I could pay. If I could
pay my bills and I could do it the way
I want to do it and connect where I love,
and that's being here and bringing stuff back from here there,
then I'm fine with it. I mean, you know, it
does help that we have such a concept, because if
(26:20):
it was all pizza, I don't know if it would work.
I've never owned a pizzeria, and I'll never speaks as
if I know what the hell I'm doing owning a pizzeria.
But you know, you know, we have we have the groceries,
We have our sandwiches, which are getting more and more
popular all the time, and the most that I'd land,
lots of prepared food. So you know, it's kind of
like it's it's it's working now. It's we open in
(26:43):
the beginning of the summer, which is the worst time
to open, especially in the area. But we have regulars
already and we have new people all the time. So
business wise, as long as I could pay my bills
and put a couple of bucks in my pocket, I'm
happy enough to be able to say today we're making
this because I ate it in Italy last week and
that's what I'm doing right.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
It seems like it's part circumstantial too, because you got
into this as a commissary, which is something I've been
looking at. The rents are really high here, which was
going to drive me more towards the catering side because
it does allow me. It's closer to fulfilling my passion
(27:25):
at this point than breadmaking, which I love and I've
been doing it for five years. But I have to
produce a tremendous amount of bread to get the farmers'
markets every weekend, which doesn't give me time to learn
more and focus.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
And that's what I that's what I fell into, or
I've always been into, is our stores. And my store
was very busy, and we had a lot of really
good things, and I want to have a smaller amount
of really great things. And the you know, private parties
are more lucratives, they're less work, they're less pressure in
(28:05):
a lot of ways. But to me, it's the need
to feed people more regularly, you know. So that's what
you have to me. If you if you feel fulfilled
by just being able to cook and feed who you feed,
then it's you're already head of the game. I just
took almost forty years off and heard constantly of people that,
(28:26):
you know, oh, I want to try you food. How
can I try food? I can't make it to the
pop ups all of this, and it's like, I want,
I'm supposed to be feeding people. So to me, that's
why the commissary thing went out the window. The ease
of working a couple of days a week doing parties
went out the window for me. And you know, I
want to make twenty of the best things I can
make and continue working on other stuff, have that time
(28:50):
rather than have we you know, just endless, endless supplies
of food in my old storehead. So it's rue about
what you want to do. And uh, and like I
don't need to be a crazy volume business anymore. As
long as I can make good food and feed people
and have that door available for people to open, I
(29:14):
love it.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
I love the mindset man.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Now, how did you get involved in your first Food Network.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Guest pot Well, Uh, I got a message on Instagram
about from the production company involved in the The Bobby
Play show, and uh, of course, I'm like, you know,
it's a spam, somebody messing with me. You know, I'm
I'm always a modest person, always will be. But also
you never know who's going to message you. So I
had a little uh digging done and found out how
(29:46):
legit and within a few weeks you know, were we
were filming it was. It was it was mind blowing
to me. I said I would never do food television
or didn't really care, but I was just so like,
I guess you know, it flattered that I was asked
to do it. I didn't apply or anything. I'm like, oh,
maybe they're really somebody's really interested on what do I do?
(30:08):
So I was like, let's do it. And it was
filmed and it didn't come out for just over a year.
So in the meantime, I also did a tailgate takedown
show with my buddy John's Azzarro, which was like another
quick shoot from the hip thing, but it sounded fun
and I get to cook outside with one of my
friends that we've done in a million times before, and
you know, it was it just happened. I mean, you know,
(30:31):
I just wanted to take the opportunity to do it
because I always We talked about it at length doing
the show, but it didn't make the show. But I've
been a pork store kid in my whole life. So
if I can at least stand next to an accredited chef,
whether you respect him or give them credit he deserves,
then you know I'm already ahead.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
So that's great. Did it help and change your business?
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Well, I didn't have a business other than doing private
parties at the time. My social media got a little push,
I will say, because local television gave me more of
like a social media and I think it's just the
idea that you can actually get my food. You know,
people watching television and you know, the the metropolitan New
(31:18):
York Rockland, Westchester Bergen area. I think we're probably more
interested in pursuing following me because I'm local, So it
definitely gave me a lot of credit. I mean, I've
got a handful of parties that they specifically said they
saw me on a show. You know, what I think
it gave is like a lot of people that have
been supporting me forever and I have a huge supporting
(31:41):
like base in the business. And on the other side,
it gave them, like, you know, such a satisfaction that like,
I guess I got a chance to like get out
of a porkstore and do something. But no, I mean
it helped, you know. I mean it's I think there's
a misconception of like you go on a show in
the next day, there's lines down the street and a
(32:02):
lot of and a lot of times that happened. If
I had my store when it came out, it might
have been that way. But it definitely you know, it's
still out there and it's still coming on. It's still
showing up on the Food Network, so I'm still getting
the messages and all that. I think. I think it
definitely helped me. Yeah, but you know, if my store,
which is now open, was open, then it would have
been you know, I think it would have been even crazier.
(32:23):
But it reruns.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yeah, what is your philosophy about social media, Like where
does it fit into your priorities, because you do have
a pretty big social media presence.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Social media to me, has and always will be just
a way for me to show people what I love
and what I do, whether it's my food, or it's
traveling or going to concerts or just being an idiot
once in a while. I know it's a lot more
than that for a lot of people. I have very
you know, derogatory views on a lot of social media,
(32:56):
especially the food part of it. But I think if
you read through all the nonsense and all the fake
stuff and all the trends, and it's a way to
find great people, whether it's because of their food, or
because of their music, or because of just them. So
I love social media. It's a love hate thing. I
hate the bad part of it, just like anybody hates
(33:17):
with anything. But I've met some of my closest friends
in the last few years or new closest friends through it.
I've gotten my food out to more people because of it.
I'll never be a huge millions of followers guy, because
you know, I don't do the gimmicks maybe or care
to be you know, follow the regimens or when to post,
(33:40):
how to post in the stat and most of the time,
like friends of mine are like, oh, you should get
an editor or some you know, but social media is good.
I just think, you know, the availability of knowledge and
experience and even just visibility of things makes it amazing.
And then it also makes the smoke and mirrors part
of it. And now we have, you know, people that
(34:00):
are considered great chefs for making a dish a month
and good editing and like, you know, whatever their gimmick
is or however they may look physically, is becoming a
thing to get sponsorships and get likes and get all that.
And me personally, I'm a purist. It's been my whole
life since I'm a very young kid in this business.
So I just try to, you know, keep my distance
(34:22):
and just keep my head down and do what I did.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
I gotcha.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
The first bread I ever started to make before I
started selling bread, and it became my most popular thing
and still is after I started selling it is persuade bread.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Do you make it?
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Well? Actually, I'm glad you brought that up, because I
was just talking about that with my few uncles and
aunts and my father, and I was part of an
article for Taste about lard bread, which is another name
for producto bread, or at least it's a similar product.
What we always made, which I'm going to finally be
introducing to my new store in the next few weeks.
We called it a chicuilla bread, or it's more of
(35:04):
a lard bread. It can be called the prejuca bread.
It's pork cooked down in its own fat for like
hours and rendered out and then mixed with dough and
cheese and baked. So that's how we always did it.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Again that and the chico stands for I believe the
burnt christy.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Yes, there's a lot of names for fleetily chic chili.
My father and my grandmother said chicula, so that's what
I say.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
So, yeah, what is the meat that cooks down? It's not.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
For ours. It's usually you know, different kinds of pork.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
It was always a thing that was like the trimming
from all the pork, butchering with all the fat and
uh you know, it's the spices and and and salt
and everything. You know. For us, it was anything from
shoulder to loin to neck meat to whatever it was,
and it was just ground up, super coarse and cooked down. Uh.
But again, I love prejuca bread from Brooklyn. We sell
(35:59):
from a baker in Brooklyn and it's chunks of pajutto
in it. Some use more of a ham, some use
more of a salami, Some have lard in the dough,
some don't anymore. You know that taste article which is
called God Saved Lard Bread that I was part of,
and I gave them a little like a recipe similar
to how I make mine. It was cool because it
(36:20):
kind of went into that because you can go to
you know, places in the Bronx and they make a
super peppery one that's like with a like a fatty salami,
or you can go to places where it's straight up perjutto.
Some have even chunks of all cured meats. I mean,
we've even made it where we take that lard that
we cook down and mix in you know, ends of
all the cured meats, which is like the best stuff
we always hid for ourselves. So it's perjutto bread as
(36:42):
a name is something we only used for the ones
we sold from bakeries that made a prejutto bread. But
it's it's like a lardbread, and there's so many versions
all around Italy. It's great.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
I do it is around Italy. Huh, yeah, I thought
it was more of a New.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
York prejuto bed part. I don't think I've ever seen
the word perjucto bread. There's just you know, different very
I mean, we made in Sardaniel with my friend's aunt,
you know, just with chunks of the lard itself rendered
down in the bread. There's a place in Siena and
Tuscany I always go to calt Mekoi that makes I'm
not sure what they actually even call it, probably because
I'm usually just like obsessed with eating it and shouting
(37:20):
it down my throat. But and it's probably it's more
similar to like that Bronx Brooklyn perjucco bread, different shape
and not as greasy. But yeah, there's so many different
versions of breads with meat and fat, especially fat, you know,
you know, whether it's cooked with the lard itself or
pieces of it. Around here, I don't think you'll find
a prejucca bread per se. But just like everything we
(37:42):
eat Italian, American or almost everything, it started here in
some form.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Right, I do it with perjucto, pepperoni, zulami and sometimes
more to della.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
But I moved away from that because.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Of the n oh yeah, oh yeah, no, that sounds good.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
And then I use uh dorm flower there and I
do use butcher pepper.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Gotta do the course pepper. I love it. I'm a
big black pepper fane. We do our We grind our own.
We have. I'm slightly crazy in a good way, so
we have we grind our own pepper. Some finer, some courser.
But I like that chunk of pepper in there. I
love it, and to me it makes it. And the
combo of pepperoni and and all that, that's that's all me.
(38:26):
They have a lot of work together without without the
nuts still, so I mean, you know this, you know.
We we sell three types, three types in my store now.
One dustachio, which is the you know, the old school
I love the best. And we have a spicy one
that has a little pickle colibraates pepper in it, and
we have a truffle work to do.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
So oh wow, never had I got to come up there.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Definitely more. Todella is literally holy to me, So yeah,
I like that. If you ever have an extra brajuto
bread left, you know, I mean, I'll meet you. I'll
meet you on the l a E.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
I'll go up there. Man, I would love to what
do you baking the bread in?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Well, the breads we always did, you know, again because
we were workstores, it was always convection of them. I'm
going to mess around, yeah, and I love convection is
a great tool. I want the new version to be
done in one of the pizza ovens, because we do
have an electric deck pizza oven and the wood fired oven.
I'll probably make make it in both ovens to start
(39:24):
to see, you know how I like, I'm always evolving things.
I hate the word perfecting a recipe or the idea
of perfecting a recipe. I don't think anything gets ever perfect.
So you know, I'm gonna I've done it in the
electric oven, and I'm gonna I'm gonna work on it
in the deck oven, excuse me, the wood fired oven
as well. So you know that's part of this place.
Is like the things we did all these years in
(39:48):
one way, I just want to do it different. So,
you know, cooking our meatballs in the wood fired oven,
roasting our chicken of the wood fired oven, cooking you know,
all these things is just like this is where I'm
at now, and this is how I the growing up,
and now this is how we're doing that.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
So the point of cooking the meatballs in the wood
fired oven is the high heat, right, And so I
could do something similar in a in a cast iron
grill in my yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Mean, we don't go super high so as not to
like charge the outside too much in the inside go raw.
Usually keep it around six to six fifty, which is
still pretty high. You know, a lot of wood fired cooking,
especially at a certain temperature for a certain amount of time.
And again I'm learning. I'm not a I'm not you know,
the master of these things. But to me, it's it's
(40:34):
the wood flavor doesn't affect as much as the process
of doing something in that old school way, you know,
wood fired pizza.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
That's a scientific fact.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
And this is one of the big debates on like
these Facebook sites. Oh yeah, and I don't I don't
engage anymore because these people don't know what they're talking about.
But you know, if you're cooking something for sixty seconds,
it's not going to observe it's gonna smell great in
the yard.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
Yeah, well that's the thing. Listening, we travel the country
pizza people like, oh, there's nothing better the wood fire pizza.
At these expos are like, you're cooking a pizza for
ninety seconds, you are not tasting wood. I would challenge
the best palace, say you're tasting wood.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Me, I like the I'll tell you another trick. I
learned that people have the gas fueled Malfornies that also
burned wood and do the wood as a fake.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Oh yeah, like it. And the funny part is is
that is so common. I got the gas the system
I oven because of the three days a week. So
we we light the oven Wednesday with gas for about
six eight hours and just let it burn and then
we start Thursday morning all wood. So the gas is
(41:44):
just to cure the oven, to heat the oven up,
and all the cooking is done with wood. You know.
But again, like you said, you can't you know, if
you're if you have slow embers and you're adding some
smoke to something and you're doing all that, you're you're
you're gonna taste the wood you're smoking, you know. But
like to me, it's not so much. Our meatballs don't
taste like wood smoke, and I don't want them to.
(42:06):
I will make smoky meatballs, but not our traditional, our
everyday meatballs. But to me, it's the idea of building
the fire and working the fire and like understanding it
and cooking old school and you know, that's that's what
it is for me. It's the tradition of it. And
you know, anybody can light a stove an oven and
cooking it. And I don't take away from doing that.
(42:27):
I do it every day. But to me, like getting
better at work in the fire and learning the tricks
and stuff. And it's still not as you know, intense
as one hundred, two hundred, three hundred years ago when
they had only wood fire, but you know, it's it's
to me, it's about the process and about like history
of it, you know. And the wood fire pizza people
are you're crazy. You don't taste in the wood, I know,
(42:47):
but I want to cook the wood. I like it.
You know. It's it's it's it's the old school way.
It's it's it's tradition. It's it's it's you know, it's
it's archaic and and caveman and you know it's and
it's and it's a challenge, you know, like I said,
if you know, one of the hardest things is what
I've learned in the last handful of years has been
about lighting the fire properly and building the cold bed
(43:09):
and using the right certain cuts of wood for certain things.
And that's more about it than the flavor you're getting
from it, unless you're using the wood to flavor.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
And you learn that by calling friends and saying, you know,
give me a hand. Well, I know it's trial and
error to an extent.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
I am a person who likes the torture myself with
doing it the hard way. I've always I've reached out
to friends plenty of times. Me. I have a great
group of friends who we constantly hate what am I
doing with this? Hey we do that? You know, why
am I not getting this? Might goet that, but you know,
most of what I learned, especially in the last decade,
I guess, has been just like, let me try this
(43:48):
and see how it works. And maybe you know, you
could easily get consulting, you can easily watch YouTube videos.
And I don't knock either of those things. But to me,
it's like every six months to year, I'm like, man,
I didn't know what I was doing last year because
I figured it out more and and yeah, there's been
plenty I have super talented friends and like that's a
(44:10):
crazy advantage as well. So if I'm ever in a
mind too, I know there's someone who knows something more
than I do within a text message from me, so
you know, and that's that's that's the coolest part.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
All right, last question, I really do appreciate you doing
this from Italy on your vacasion. Is it true that
you're an official taste ambassador for the city of General.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Yes, the pandemic kind of like put a curveball to that,
and I don't know, I would like to revisit it again.
But twenty nineteen, Roberto Caparroucho a very good friend and
an inspiration. Cesra Casella the first chef I ever emulated.
I don't say I won't say emulated, but like respected
and sought sought his you know, like I guess wisdom
(45:01):
or whatever. We went to Genoa. We we worked with
the consortiums for Dico UH, for Focat Genovese and for
Pesto al motaio so motia so me, and we worked
with them. We we we learned, we practiced, and we
got certified by the Mayor of Genoa as the official
(45:23):
taste Ambassadors and Masters of fat Genovesa, which anybody knows me,
I hate masters and kings and gods of food or anything,
but yeah, I got the I had the experience. I
have a you know, it's something that you know, I
don't even have on my Instagram profile anymore because it's
kind of hard to explain in that sense, but it's yeah.
I mean, hopefully one day we'll revisit it and do
(45:45):
the things we plan to do with it here and
there for the city of Genoa and for those things
far from Genovese. Have none of it in my blood,
but uh, you know, it was me, a Talian American
kid going with two easy Italian Pete Tyler chef and
getting that opportunity and yeah, so yeah, I can.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Tell you it's amazing. Well, keep up the great work,
have a great time on vacation. I'll come up and
visit you and bring you up productor bread and check
out the oven and everything.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
That's awesome, and I look forward. Thank you. It's an
honor to do this and any chance I get to
talk to somebody on the on the on the level
about what I love, it's it means a lot to me.
So I thank you for doing this and being here
makes it super special for me because that's where my
this is where my uh my career is right now.
Whether I'm here physically or or not, that's what.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
It's all about.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Thank you, Rob,
My name is Jim Serpico. And this should I start with?
My name?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
What should I start with? This is bread for the people.
Do you like it like this? Welcome to bread? Or
do you like it like this? Welcome ready, Welcome to
bread for the people?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Mine? Is there a script.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
All the people?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Is this thing on? Welcome to bread for the people.
I'm Jim Cirpico. It's August, everybody. Are you guys traveling?
I'm getting ready to go to Denver myself traveling with
three other couples, my wife and three other couples. One
of the things I love about traveling with groups, whether
it's family or friends, it brings out the most fucked
(00:48):
up stuff about your friends that you never knew existed.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
So I'm looking forward to see what happens because they
my friend's got some quirks. But when we travel together
on this one, it's going to be interesting. I remember
as a kid growing up in Long Island, my father
was known as a hothead. Sometimes he couldn't control his emotions,
and before he took us on a plane, we would
do a lot of road trips and we would drive
(01:15):
somewhere within two hours from Long Island and It was
my first vacation that I remember. There might have been
some before, and we were taking a car trip. I
think it was upstate New York, and I remember the hotel.
Motel was called Tamament, and he was out of his
mind because we weren't in the car soon enough. He
was screaming. It already started stressful. It didn't seem like
(01:36):
this vacation was going to be fun. I get in
the car, I threw up, like I always do on
a two hour road trip. They had to pull over
clean it up. We get to the hotel to meet
another family. So my father was a trumpet player. This
guy was a drummer. We were vacationing together. They were
coming from New Jersey and they unpacked the car and
(01:57):
my father realizes he forgot his suitcase, so he goes
ban He jumps back in the car. He leaves us there,
and he drives back to Long Island, takes a nap.
The front door was open. The neighbor's kids came in.
He's sleeping in his underwear. They told me that story
when I got home. Finally gets back in the car,
(02:20):
goes Tamim, plays tennis with my mother and the other
couple and pulls his hamstring and the vacation was insane.
That being said, traveling is an important part of life.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
It does open your mind to a lot of things.
Growing up as an Italian American, I thought I knew
what being Italian was, and when my father took us
on the Perillo tour, I realized it was nothing like
I expected it to be. The food was different, some
(02:56):
of it was amazing, some of it was mediocre. That's
the other funny thing.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
It's not like every single person in Italy he's a
great cook. That kind of makes me laugh too. It's
just like here, man, there's plenty of people that don't cook.
It's the same way all around the world. But there
are people who are into it and it is a
way of life for a lot of people. And as
an adult, I took my family to Italy, not on
(03:21):
Perillo tours, and we took a cooking class in Florence,
and that's what hooked me on my journey. So here
I am making pizza and bread. I'm excited to talk
to my next guest. For several reasons. I've been an
admirer for a long time over Instagram. You all may
(03:45):
know him by the name of mind Machine. Others know
him as the Poor Ketta King. And one of the
reasons I'm really interested is I have a porketta right
now in my refrigerator, and I'm going to a Ghosnie
met up tomorrow and I plan to do a porketta
and hot cherry peppers and garlic oil pizza.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
So I would like to get into that. Please welcome Angelo, competiel.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Ho are you doing? What's up?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
How you do?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Man?
Speaker 1 (04:14):
You're in Italy.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I am surrounded by Italy at.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
The moment, So that's a really real back there.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
This is where I am. There is no green screen here.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
It's so beautiful. It could be a great screen, it
really could. So what part of Italy are you in?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
The town is Musco. It's in Ipenia, which is the
area my father's somewhere, about fifteen minutes or so from
where my father grew up. And it's the mountains, about
an hour eastward from Naples, and its just place I
love to be.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
So you started traveling there when you were a young kid, right?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Actually, no, my father worked a ton more than any
human should, but for us, so we our trips growing
up were you know, going down the shore. My father
would maybe meet us for a day and a half,
or I'd go away with my mother, my sisters. I
didn't get to Italy till I was twenty six years
old on my honeymoon. So but I crammed it in.
(05:17):
I'd go average about three times a year, so I've
been here. I loved somewhere around forty times. Maybe I'm addicted.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
What was the most surprising thing about Italy the first
time you ever went.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Well, the first time I ever went, was the difference
in the food, like you had you had mentioned, I mean,
growing up, we had a lot of authentic Italian, but
we also had a lot of Italian American. My mother
is American born. My father came here, came here, well,
went to America, I should say, when he was a
young kid, so you know, a lot of Italian American
influence went to his business and you know, other businesses
(05:53):
like it. So you know, there was a lot that
I knew, and it was mostly the food from my
grandparents and my parents, and it was just custom food
at home. By going to Italy, and you know, from
one city to another, one province to another, even one
house to another, just the difference in styles and flavors
and just the diversity of it was crazy. I mean,
(06:15):
it blew my mind and made me what I am.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
That's something I wanted to get into. Is like I
think the Italian American culture was like this melting pot
of all the different regions because it is so drastically
different depending on where you are. And up until I
was doing some research on you, I was under the
impression that Italians don't eat pepperoni and don't know from it,
(06:42):
because when I went to pizza school with some Italians
that were teaching from Naple, they would make fun of it.
But it does seem there is a region that was
using pepperoni the all time.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I mean, pepperoni is.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
And a big passion of mine is understanding how Italian
American cuisine be came what it is and started. And
pepperoni was derived, you know, mostly from Calabre's immigrants who
couldn't really mimic their Sothisia the Calabria, and uh, you know,
the availability of ingredients was different here, and it became
you won't find pepperoni anywhere here. The name the word
(07:18):
pepperoni is for a bell pepper here. I do know
plenty of Italians who, even if they won't admit it,
enjoy it. I love it. I'm a Tinian American through
and through, you know. But uh, you know, uh, Southern
Italian has a lot of spicy salamis, and you know
that that that Southern kind of spicy. I mean, pepperoni
has a natural spicy. I wouldn't say it's like a
(07:40):
spicy salami, and especially if you like if you like heat,
it's got a little kick. But you know, when it
comes to pepperoni, I mean, I still know a lot
of times are like it's like against their religion and
stuff like that, but you know, it's it's It's definitely
derived from a Calibre's style salami that but it's still
different and I and I appreciate that. And I'm a
(08:00):
big proponent of Italian American food, and I'll fight to
death over how much I love it because it's it's
its own cuisine, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
So my friend's daughter met her boyfriend studying abroad and
then getting a job in Milan, and her boyfriends from
Naples and he's in town now and next this Monday,
they have me coming over with my little food trailer
and twenty two of our friends for me to make pizzas,
(08:33):
and I do plan to do the pepperoni in for
trouble from this guy.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Well, you know, listen, the crazy part is is And
I've been on either side of the battles because I'm
a big lover tradition and I'm of traditional Italian and
I'm also a big protector of Italian American you know, pride.
So if they have an open mind, and I have
a lot of Italian friends who love Penny Baxen, love
chicken palm, and love pepperoni, then I think they would
(08:58):
love it. Most of the time when they try it,
they love it. But it's that getting them to try
a part that sometimes can be a little iffy. But
you know what I've I have friends here who have
butt sticks to pepperoni too, and I like it.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Oh yeah, hilarious.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Now coming from the background that you come from, your
I mean, you're actually a butcher too, right.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
That's how it all began. I mean, my father initially
was a butcher with the other makers. My father and
my uncles and a bunch of guys who started together
in Brooklyn in the early seventies, and I grew up
mostly butchering, making sausage, cutting meats for the case, doing
all kinds of stuff like that, and then making cheese.
And then as time went on, you know, less people cooked,
(09:41):
so we cooked more, you know. But as a teenager,
I was making a few thousand pounds of sausage a weet,
you know, helping my father out, helping his guys out
for his stores. And I'll always consider myself a butcher first,
even if I butcher less than I ever have in
my career now. But that's what we are at Cores
is work butchers, but butchers in general.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, so perjutto Deparma, this guy brought in a leg
of producta Deparma. And now I go to an Italian
specialty distributor that you may know of San Zone, and
I get like the highest end perjucto I could buy
when I'm making my Scotch Chota sandwiches.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Is there how much? And they do the same thing
with the olivefoil so and I'd use partana on those sluggages.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I use the cheap stuff when I'm mixing it in
something else, but I use partana only on my sandwiches.
And is there difference, Like it's the projudo this guy
is going to bring in going to be that.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Well, you know, the thing is like a lot of
stuff we get in America is amazing. A lot of
stuff here. The only time it would be better is
because maybe the practices or the ingredients in the process
of making something doesn't hit our USDA standards to come here.
We also have the idea of things being vacuum sealed
and refrigerated and shipped. And the time, you know, Italy,
(11:04):
you can go to a Salumetti and get prejuto that
has never been vacuum sealed. It doesn't have you know,
you see all these fantastical, you know stories on a
TV of like the humidity and the breeze from the
river po coating the coulatello, and that's great, but you
go to jail if you do that in the United States.
So you know, it's there is a lot better that
(11:26):
doesn't come here, and it's mostly for those reasons, but
it's also a lot especially I think with olive oil
and product those are two great examples of the cost
and the the you know, effort it takes for some
of the best producers and stuff to get it to
the United States. I mean, there's people around here that
make some of the best stuff you'll ever try. But
you know it's a small boutique farm or small boutique
(11:47):
salumi futuo, and their quality is outrageous, but they probably
couldn't even produce enough to export. They they or they
don't have the financial means to get all the certifications,
and a lot of them won't even you know, bend
their their method to fit what would take it to
be exported.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
So yeah, it's similar to a craft brewery around here,
right who's specializing in their thing and they serve it
locally and they're not necessarily going to expand and uh.
And it's also the ambiance. We know that you're eating
it there, it's going to be special.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
That's another part of it. But you know, it's I
always being as though we've been in the Italian retail
business as Salumidia operators selling cured meats and cheeses from here.
You know, when you taste the cheese you buy in
New York, New Jersey wherever, that's outrageous when you try
it at the place it's made, when it's never been
you know, it's packed in plastic and shipped out or never.
(12:46):
I mean, if you try a piece of pecorina that's
never been in a refrigerator, it's like whoa, you know,
And those are the differences, you know. And you know,
there's always been the joke people saying, oh, they keep
the good stuff for them. You know. Of course, there's
plenty of companies that they're best product. They don't want
to water down or release to everyone, or they just can't.
(13:08):
But it's like you said, the ambiance, and it's the
fact that you're here, you drink wine on the on
the property, it's made. It's always better. How much is mental,
I don't know, but yeah, I mean I'm a big
believer in that. I mean, there's great pajuto in the
United States, there's great olive oil. Partana is great all over.
They're good friends of mine, you know, Samson carries phenomenal products.
(13:30):
I love those guys lovely. I've done pop up, I've
done to pop up there and hung out with them.
You know. It's but you know, it's there's some people
that are like, oh, you can't get the good stuff here,
it's all and it totally not true. But there's a
lot of good stuff here.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Wait, did you do the porketta pop I.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Did at the pop up. Yeah, we had a pork
at the pizza and I work at the sandwich.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
I was there, you were you were there? Great, now
now it's coming back. I was there, yes, now it's
I was there.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
I believe it was COVID time, so I believe I
was probably in a mask. So yeah, we went through
a lot of work at the really good time. That
was a great pop up.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
I had no idea, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Sorry. I helped Anthony falcom and pop up there as well.
I've been out there just to visit the guys. It's
a cool place and I love what they're doing. It's
it touches my heart because it's like a super sized
version of the stores we always had our families that
my father still has and mind sort it is, so
it's I love it.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
It's a tough business man, definitely.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
The retail part of that is uh specialized, and I
think people aren't as the generations go on, it's not
the same and I don't know if there's as much demand,
which makes it tough well, but it also makes it interesting,
you know, when on a smaller scale, when I'm doing
stuff in my trailer and people just got back from
(14:48):
Italy well Florence and they see the sandwiches that I have.
That's that's when I get the most compliments and interest
when people have come back.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
That's the best thing now. But growing up in the business,
you could only get the Italian stuff for the most part,
and stores like ours. Now you can go to even
a regular supermark and get a dop for shoot of
the podlay. Would it be the quality that we would have,
Maybe not, but it's still pretty dune good and that
didn't exist back then. And you know, back then we
knew something was on the Food Network or something because
(15:19):
people would ask for it. It's like who asks for
being called though, Like we can't even sell this now
if somebody's asked about it. Now people go to Italy
more than they did, or there's social media and you
see and hear about things you never had, so you
know it also social media and all the connection does
add more misconception and mis education as well, but that's
always going to be. But you know, people come to
(15:41):
my store to buy stuff that I'm like, they're asking me,
do you sell call the Tura and I'm like, wow,
getting it in I didn't know you'd buy it, you know,
So it's it's cool.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Right, what's going on with this? More to Della crave.
Is it as big in Italy as it is here?
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Oh? Most of those huge here? I mean, of course,
And it's big everywhere. You can get Mortadella anywhere there's
Mortadella lab stores here. Morzidell's my favorite cured meat of
all time. I mean, it's hard to call it a
cured meat. It's really a cooked meat. But you know,
it's huge here, bigger than ever. I'm glad because I've
(16:17):
always loved it. When I was a kid, it was
like the kids in my school were like, oh, that's
like gross boloney, and why does it have like white
parts in it? And stuff? But any fame or notoriety
Mortadella can get. I am totally all about.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
So do you always put it on as a finisher
or do you ever put it on pre bad?
Speaker 3 (16:38):
For the most part to finish, it's used as a finisher,
But it really cooks very really well. I mean we've
made you know, versions of pizza ustica with Mortadella. I've
even done a crazy lasagna, which I'm going to do
once it gets cooler that has a thin layer of
mortodella in the middle. We've cooked it on pizza. It
cooked really well. I mean we've all had fried Bloni sandwiches,
(17:00):
We've all had like stuff like that. So you know,
I love doing stuff, and I'm going to do more
with the weather. I'm trying to be as tuned with
the heat because I can eat ragu in August. But
you know, but a cooked mortadella is something special, charred,
a little crisp. I love it.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I put it on top and I pre bake it sometimes.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Because also, I got to tell you, I'm surprised how
many people like being involved with pizza, as both of
us are, and we probably follow a bunch of accounts
associated like a big part of my social media is
looking at other people's stuff and you see them more toadella,
But there's a lot of people that don't know what
(17:42):
it is, which shocks me, you know, shocks me.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Growing up in the New York metropolitan area, there's so
many things that are just everyday common to us, even
if you know the majority, if not everybody. But yeah, no,
I've been around the country, especially doing food shows, and
it's like no clue and that's where it hurts me
to do it. But it is similar. I say Italian bologne.
(18:05):
You know, Bologne is named after Mortadella because it's from Bologna. Yeah,
it's uh uh.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
This woman laughed at me when I said it. She's like, no,
it's not. And that's the easiest way to describe it.
It seems like it's somewhat similar.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah, it's basically. I mean, that's why it's I was
told that's why it's called Bologne. It's Bologna. We say Bologne.
I don't know where that came from, but you know,
it's and that's the only way. But when people try it,
you know, of course it's a different flavor. I mean
some are smokier than others and tapped closer to the
Bologna thing. But yeah, it's it's shocking to me sometimes
how many people don't know a lot of things. But again,
(18:41):
it's been so accustomed to you and I. Where we
grew up, it was you know, normal.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yeah, explain alta your pina alta a.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
It's uh out is the is the pronunciation. It's where
I am now. Is this region which is official unofficial
region which is mostly made up of the province of Avellino,
and it's the mountainous area in Avellino, and it's an
alpha is the higher part, which is where we are,
(19:16):
which is higher in the mountains as you could see.
So you know, growing up, my father left here when
he was young. And you know, the idea of the
romanticism of Italy doesn't always exist for people that live
in Italy because it's just where they live. We don't know,
you know, as much as we learned years later. So
I never knew Alfina it really was. It was it
(19:39):
was just that thing. It was just a name you
heard once in a while. I knew my follow was
from Avellino. I knew it was Santangiolo de Lombarddi. But
when I got into the Alpinia thing and I started
learning more about it and this like respect of the
ingredients of the land and the people, the hard work.
It's a hard place and it's very known for devastating
(19:59):
earth quakes and mountains. And you know, to this day
you drive around here and there's ninety year old ladies
in their gardens. You know, it's like super old school
in a lot of ways. So it's basically you know,
and I'm getting a lot of people contacting me because hey,
you know, my father is from Group Tominada and I
didn't know that's in their opinia. And that's so cool
(20:20):
that you have a store and I have people coming
in my store that see the name and they're from
towns here, and it's like, you know, it became a
thing of an identity thing, you know, to really like
hold on to that. You know, my father and his siblings, parents,
they they left because it was poor and wanted a
better life. And to me, I want to, you know,
(20:41):
pay homage to like the roots that they couldn't, you know.
And I'm lucky to be able to fortune to be
able to choose to like push it. I don't want
people to understand. That's why I'm here now doing my
doing my research and meeting with farmers and doing all
that so Atterirpenia is the highest part of yeah right here.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
And so your shop is selling meat and cheeses because
I noticed that the pizza that you're doing is basically
Thursday through I think.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
So we're open Thursday through Saturday, and that's going to
be our schedule. We may one day add on Sunday,
but it's set up. Now.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
When you say that, though, is that just a pizza?
Speaker 3 (21:21):
No, that's that's everything. We open eleven am and we have,
you know, a pocotia made in the wood fired oven.
We do some Roman style like paala usually Friday and
Saturday as well, but five pm every night starts my
version of like Neapolitan inspired wood fired pizza.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I never heard of that concept in format from anyone else,
Like to me, that's all the stuff I bake.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Yeah no, and I love that. Yeah no, it's it's
you know what. It started because I grew up in
the Slumiti in the butcher shop. I love it. I
had my store for twelve years in White coth My
father has been doing it since he's twelve thirteen years old,
and it's hard to get it out of my system.
I fell in love with cooking more than butchering, and
of course the necessity of it was there more. And
(22:06):
then I really got obsessed with pizza and does and everything.
So when I when I signed the least, the idea
was originally to be a commissary kitchen for private parties
and consulting and just doing my thing, and I said,
you know, I'm a pizza place. You know, I really
feel like I'm learning and getting better at pizza and
understanding it more, if it can ever be truly understood.
(22:29):
But right away I was like, can't. But I can't
ditch any perjuto here. I have to make what I've
been making for a few decades, and you know, how
can I not do it? And then it became a
saluminia with a pizza oven, and so that's where we are.
We're you know, we're a saluminia kind of gosnomia. You know,
we don't sell the butcher meats anymore. I'd like to someday,
(22:53):
but yeah, it's just like if they, you know, Hudson
Valley Magazine put it not so Salumitia, not so pizza
area kind of a label.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
On it, and that's it great different different.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I'm really interested selfishly in the business side because I'm
I'm behind you many years and I'm trying to figure
it out. But this is what I want to do,
a version of it, you know, So what kind of
neighborhood because because obviously a lot of pizzerias are open
seven days a week because the margin is so long,
(23:30):
which at this stage of my life I'm not that
interested in and I you're probably working the other days
because you've got preferments and you have to mix and
you have to get ready. But it's it's possible to
pay the rent, and are you at it like a
like an industrial area.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
You know, count of suffering. I live less than ten
minutes from for the last fifteen years, and it's like
this gateway to the Hudson Valley town I feel like
it's been you know, not like ignored, but kind of
put on the wayside because of the Hudson Valley towns
that have gone bigger and the Bergen County New Jersey
(24:10):
towns that surround it. And I've always loved it. I
love the downtown. I love the feel. I didn't, you know,
I want to be in a shopping center anymore. You know,
it's got this old feel and they used it for
parts of the Irishman movie because of that, and like,
you know, but I just wanted a home base. I
wanted a place to plant my feet. So there did
(24:32):
a lot of traveling to cook and Suffering gave me
the opportunity to like not pay the Bergen County rent
prices anymore and give myself away to you know, do
private parties, so I'm not open every day do when
I can work with these companies I work and travel with.
I'm fortunate to have built a pretty decent reputation in
(24:53):
the area and I have people that you know, on
the weekend will travel to me. So right now it's working.
Of course, I have a ton of money to pay
back from building it out, But you know, I don't
want to be a seven day a week place anymore.
My store with seven days a week, I don't. I'm
not afraid of the hours because I'm working just as
many hours now. I want something to be special. I
(25:15):
don't want it to be just a place for good food.
I want it to be a place that you go
for the crazy stuff we make and for the focus.
And to me, you know, I took basically almost four
years off of the business, still working but sporadically and
parties and not you know, I may you know, not
making the money I did or putting in the hours
(25:36):
I did. And I realized how much I don't need
to make to fulfill what I want to do with
my career and where I'm at now, and where I'm
at now is to be focused and do make the
best food I ever could and make the things I
always wanted to make that I couldn't being in the
old design. And you know, it's you know, it's it's
(25:58):
cliche now I think fortunately to say passion project, but
it is, this is like my kitchen and I want
people to come and eat with me, and you know
I don't. I don't I could pay. If I could
pay my bills and I could do it the way
I want to do it and connect where I love,
and that's being here and bringing stuff back from here there,
then I'm fine with it. I mean, you know, it
does help that we have such a concept, because if
(26:20):
it was all pizza, I don't know if it would work.
I've never owned a pizzeria, and I'll never speaks as
if I know what the hell I'm doing owning a pizzeria.
But you know, you know, we have we have the groceries,
We have our sandwiches, which are getting more and more
popular all the time, and the most that I'd land,
lots of prepared food. So you know, it's kind of
like it's it's it's working now. It's we open in
(26:43):
the beginning of the summer, which is the worst time
to open, especially in the area. But we have regulars
already and we have new people all the time. So
business wise, as long as I could pay my bills
and put a couple of bucks in my pocket, I'm
happy enough to be able to say today we're making
this because I ate it in Italy last week and
that's what I'm doing right.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
It seems like it's part circumstantial too, because you got
into this as a commissary, which is something I've been
looking at. The rents are really high here, which was
going to drive me more towards the catering side because
it does allow me. It's closer to fulfilling my passion
(27:25):
at this point than breadmaking, which I love and I've
been doing it for five years. But I have to
produce a tremendous amount of bread to get the farmers'
markets every weekend, which doesn't give me time to learn
more and focus.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
And that's what I that's what I fell into, or
I've always been into, is our stores. And my store
was very busy, and we had a lot of really
good things, and I want to have a smaller amount
of really great things. And the you know, private parties
are more lucratives, they're less work, they're less pressure in
(28:05):
a lot of ways. But to me, it's the need
to feed people more regularly, you know. So that's what
you have to me. If you if you feel fulfilled
by just being able to cook and feed who you feed,
then it's you're already head of the game. I just
took almost forty years off and heard constantly of people that,
(28:26):
you know, oh, I want to try you food. How
can I try food? I can't make it to the
pop ups all of this, and it's like, I want,
I'm supposed to be feeding people. So to me, that's
why the commissary thing went out the window. The ease
of working a couple of days a week doing parties
went out the window for me. And you know, I
want to make twenty of the best things I can
make and continue working on other stuff, have that time
(28:50):
rather than have we you know, just endless, endless supplies
of food in my old storehead. So it's rue about
what you want to do. And uh, and like I
don't need to be a crazy volume business anymore. As
long as I can make good food and feed people
and have that door available for people to open, I
(29:14):
love it.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
I love the mindset man.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Now, how did you get involved in your first Food Network.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Guest pot Well, Uh, I got a message on Instagram
about from the production company involved in the The Bobby
Play show, and uh, of course, I'm like, you know,
it's a spam, somebody messing with me. You know, I'm
I'm always a modest person, always will be. But also
you never know who's going to message you. So I
had a little uh digging done and found out how
(29:46):
legit and within a few weeks you know, were we
were filming it was. It was it was mind blowing
to me. I said I would never do food television
or didn't really care, but I was just so like,
I guess you know, it flattered that I was asked
to do it. I didn't apply or anything. I'm like, oh,
maybe they're really somebody's really interested on what do I do?
(30:08):
So I was like, let's do it. And it was
filmed and it didn't come out for just over a year.
So in the meantime, I also did a tailgate takedown
show with my buddy John's Azzarro, which was like another
quick shoot from the hip thing, but it sounded fun
and I get to cook outside with one of my
friends that we've done in a million times before, and
you know, it was it just happened. I mean, you know,
(30:31):
I just wanted to take the opportunity to do it
because I always We talked about it at length doing
the show, but it didn't make the show. But I've
been a pork store kid in my whole life. So
if I can at least stand next to an accredited chef,
whether you respect him or give them credit he deserves,
then you know I'm already ahead.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
So that's great. Did it help and change your business?
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Well, I didn't have a business other than doing private
parties at the time. My social media got a little push,
I will say, because local television gave me more of
like a social media and I think it's just the
idea that you can actually get my food. You know,
people watching television and you know, the the metropolitan New
(31:18):
York Rockland, Westchester Bergen area. I think we're probably more
interested in pursuing following me because I'm local, So it
definitely gave me a lot of credit. I mean, I've
got a handful of parties that they specifically said they
saw me on a show. You know, what I think
it gave is like a lot of people that have
been supporting me forever and I have a huge supporting
(31:41):
like base in the business. And on the other side,
it gave them, like, you know, such a satisfaction that like,
I guess I got a chance to like get out
of a porkstore and do something. But no, I mean
it helped, you know. I mean it's I think there's
a misconception of like you go on a show in
the next day, there's lines down the street and a
(32:02):
lot of and a lot of times that happened. If
I had my store when it came out, it might
have been that way. But it definitely you know, it's
still out there and it's still coming on. It's still
showing up on the Food Network, so I'm still getting
the messages and all that. I think. I think it
definitely helped me. Yeah, but you know, if my store,
which is now open, was open, then it would have
been you know, I think it would have been even crazier.
(32:23):
But it reruns.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yeah, what is your philosophy about social media, Like where
does it fit into your priorities, because you do have
a pretty big social media presence.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Social media to me, has and always will be just
a way for me to show people what I love
and what I do, whether it's my food, or it's
traveling or going to concerts or just being an idiot
once in a while. I know it's a lot more
than that for a lot of people. I have very
you know, derogatory views on a lot of social media,
(32:56):
especially the food part of it. But I think if
you read through all the nonsense and all the fake
stuff and all the trends, and it's a way to
find great people, whether it's because of their food, or
because of their music, or because of just them. So
I love social media. It's a love hate thing. I
hate the bad part of it, just like anybody hates
(33:17):
with anything. But I've met some of my closest friends
in the last few years or new closest friends through it.
I've gotten my food out to more people because of it.
I'll never be a huge millions of followers guy, because
you know, I don't do the gimmicks maybe or care
to be you know, follow the regimens or when to post,
(33:40):
how to post in the stat and most of the time,
like friends of mine are like, oh, you should get
an editor or some you know, but social media is good.
I just think, you know, the availability of knowledge and
experience and even just visibility of things makes it amazing.
And then it also makes the smoke and mirrors part
of it. And now we have, you know, people that
(34:00):
are considered great chefs for making a dish a month
and good editing and like, you know, whatever their gimmick
is or however they may look physically, is becoming a
thing to get sponsorships and get likes and get all that.
And me personally, I'm a purist. It's been my whole
life since I'm a very young kid in this business.
So I just try to, you know, keep my distance
(34:22):
and just keep my head down and do what I did.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
I gotcha.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
The first bread I ever started to make before I
started selling bread, and it became my most popular thing
and still is after I started selling it is persuade bread.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Do you make it?
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Well? Actually, I'm glad you brought that up, because I
was just talking about that with my few uncles and
aunts and my father, and I was part of an
article for Taste about lard bread, which is another name
for producto bread, or at least it's a similar product.
What we always made, which I'm going to finally be
introducing to my new store in the next few weeks.
We called it a chicuilla bread, or it's more of
(35:04):
a lard bread. It can be called the prejuca bread.
It's pork cooked down in its own fat for like
hours and rendered out and then mixed with dough and
cheese and baked. So that's how we always did it.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Again that and the chico stands for I believe the
burnt christy.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Yes, there's a lot of names for fleetily chic chili.
My father and my grandmother said chicula, so that's what
I say.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
So, yeah, what is the meat that cooks down? It's not.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
For ours. It's usually you know, different kinds of pork.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
It was always a thing that was like the trimming
from all the pork, butchering with all the fat and
uh you know, it's the spices and and and salt
and everything. You know. For us, it was anything from
shoulder to loin to neck meat to whatever it was,
and it was just ground up, super coarse and cooked down. Uh.
But again, I love prejuca bread from Brooklyn. We sell
(35:59):
from a baker in Brooklyn and it's chunks of pajutto
in it. Some use more of a ham, some use
more of a salami, Some have lard in the dough,
some don't anymore. You know that taste article which is
called God Saved Lard Bread that I was part of,
and I gave them a little like a recipe similar
to how I make mine. It was cool because it
(36:20):
kind of went into that because you can go to
you know, places in the Bronx and they make a
super peppery one that's like with a like a fatty salami,
or you can go to places where it's straight up perjutto.
Some have even chunks of all cured meats. I mean,
we've even made it where we take that lard that
we cook down and mix in you know, ends of
all the cured meats, which is like the best stuff
we always hid for ourselves. So it's perjutto bread as
(36:42):
a name is something we only used for the ones
we sold from bakeries that made a prejutto bread. But
it's it's like a lardbread, and there's so many versions
all around Italy. It's great.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
I do it is around Italy. Huh, yeah, I thought
it was more of a New.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
York prejuto bed part. I don't think I've ever seen
the word perjucto bread. There's just you know, different very
I mean, we made in Sardaniel with my friend's aunt,
you know, just with chunks of the lard itself rendered
down in the bread. There's a place in Siena and
Tuscany I always go to calt Mekoi that makes I'm
not sure what they actually even call it, probably because
I'm usually just like obsessed with eating it and shouting
(37:20):
it down my throat. But and it's probably it's more
similar to like that Bronx Brooklyn perjucco bread, different shape
and not as greasy. But yeah, there's so many different
versions of breads with meat and fat, especially fat, you know,
you know, whether it's cooked with the lard itself or
pieces of it. Around here, I don't think you'll find
a prejucca bread per se. But just like everything we
(37:42):
eat Italian, American or almost everything, it started here in
some form.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Right, I do it with perjucto, pepperoni, zulami and sometimes
more to della.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
But I moved away from that because.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Of the n oh yeah, oh yeah, no, that sounds good.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
And then I use uh dorm flower there and I
do use butcher pepper.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Gotta do the course pepper. I love it. I'm a
big black pepper fane. We do our We grind our own.
We have. I'm slightly crazy in a good way, so
we have we grind our own pepper. Some finer, some courser.
But I like that chunk of pepper in there. I
love it, and to me it makes it. And the
combo of pepperoni and and all that, that's that's all me.
(38:26):
They have a lot of work together without without the
nuts still, so I mean, you know this, you know.
We we sell three types, three types in my store now.
One dustachio, which is the you know, the old school
I love the best. And we have a spicy one
that has a little pickle colibraates pepper in it, and
we have a truffle work to do.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
So oh wow, never had I got to come up there.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Definitely more. Todella is literally holy to me, So yeah,
I like that. If you ever have an extra brajuto
bread left, you know, I mean, I'll meet you. I'll
meet you on the l a E.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
I'll go up there. Man, I would love to what
do you baking the bread in?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Well, the breads we always did, you know, again because
we were workstores, it was always convection of them. I'm
going to mess around, yeah, and I love convection is
a great tool. I want the new version to be
done in one of the pizza ovens, because we do
have an electric deck pizza oven and the wood fired oven.
I'll probably make make it in both ovens to start
(39:24):
to see, you know how I like, I'm always evolving things.
I hate the word perfecting a recipe or the idea
of perfecting a recipe. I don't think anything gets ever perfect.
So you know, I'm gonna I've done it in the
electric oven, and I'm gonna I'm gonna work on it
in the deck oven, excuse me, the wood fired oven
as well. So you know that's part of this place.
Is like the things we did all these years in
(39:48):
one way, I just want to do it different. So,
you know, cooking our meatballs in the wood fired oven,
roasting our chicken of the wood fired oven, cooking you know,
all these things is just like this is where I'm
at now, and this is how I the growing up,
and now this is how we're doing that.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
So the point of cooking the meatballs in the wood
fired oven is the high heat, right, And so I
could do something similar in a in a cast iron
grill in my yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Mean, we don't go super high so as not to
like charge the outside too much in the inside go raw.
Usually keep it around six to six fifty, which is
still pretty high. You know, a lot of wood fired cooking,
especially at a certain temperature for a certain amount of time.
And again I'm learning. I'm not a I'm not you know,
the master of these things. But to me, it's it's
(40:34):
the wood flavor doesn't affect as much as the process
of doing something in that old school way, you know,
wood fired pizza.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
That's a scientific fact.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
And this is one of the big debates on like
these Facebook sites. Oh yeah, and I don't I don't
engage anymore because these people don't know what they're talking about.
But you know, if you're cooking something for sixty seconds,
it's not going to observe it's gonna smell great in
the yard.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
Yeah, well that's the thing. Listening, we travel the country
pizza people like, oh, there's nothing better the wood fire pizza.
At these expos are like, you're cooking a pizza for
ninety seconds, you are not tasting wood. I would challenge
the best palace, say you're tasting wood.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Me, I like the I'll tell you another trick. I
learned that people have the gas fueled Malfornies that also
burned wood and do the wood as a fake.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Oh yeah, like it. And the funny part is is
that is so common. I got the gas the system
I oven because of the three days a week. So
we we light the oven Wednesday with gas for about
six eight hours and just let it burn and then
we start Thursday morning all wood. So the gas is
(41:44):
just to cure the oven, to heat the oven up,
and all the cooking is done with wood. You know.
But again, like you said, you can't you know, if
you're if you have slow embers and you're adding some
smoke to something and you're doing all that, you're you're
you're gonna taste the wood you're smoking, you know. But
like to me, it's not so much. Our meatballs don't
taste like wood smoke, and I don't want them to.
(42:06):
I will make smoky meatballs, but not our traditional, our
everyday meatballs. But to me, it's the idea of building
the fire and working the fire and like understanding it
and cooking old school and you know, that's that's what
it is for me. It's the tradition of it. And
you know, anybody can light a stove an oven and
cooking it. And I don't take away from doing that.
(42:27):
I do it every day. But to me, like getting
better at work in the fire and learning the tricks
and stuff. And it's still not as you know, intense
as one hundred, two hundred, three hundred years ago when
they had only wood fire, but you know, it's it's
to me, it's about the process and about like history
of it, you know. And the wood fire pizza people
are you're crazy. You don't taste in the wood, I know,
(42:47):
but I want to cook the wood. I like it.
You know. It's it's it's it's the old school way.
It's it's it's tradition. It's it's it's you know, it's
it's archaic and and caveman and you know it's and
it's and it's a challenge, you know, like I said,
if you know, one of the hardest things is what
I've learned in the last handful of years has been
about lighting the fire properly and building the cold bed
(43:09):
and using the right certain cuts of wood for certain things.
And that's more about it than the flavor you're getting
from it, unless you're using the wood to flavor.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
And you learn that by calling friends and saying, you know,
give me a hand. Well, I know it's trial and
error to an extent.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
I am a person who likes the torture myself with
doing it the hard way. I've always I've reached out
to friends plenty of times. Me. I have a great
group of friends who we constantly hate what am I
doing with this? Hey we do that? You know, why
am I not getting this? Might goet that, but you know,
most of what I learned, especially in the last decade,
I guess, has been just like, let me try this
(43:48):
and see how it works. And maybe you know, you
could easily get consulting, you can easily watch YouTube videos.
And I don't knock either of those things. But to me,
it's like every six months to year, I'm like, man,
I didn't know what I was doing last year because
I figured it out more and and yeah, there's been
plenty I have super talented friends and like that's a
(44:10):
crazy advantage as well. So if I'm ever in a
mind too, I know there's someone who knows something more
than I do within a text message from me, so
you know, and that's that's that's the coolest part.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
All right, last question, I really do appreciate you doing
this from Italy on your vacasion. Is it true that
you're an official taste ambassador for the city of General.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Yes, the pandemic kind of like put a curveball to that,
and I don't know, I would like to revisit it again.
But twenty nineteen, Roberto Caparroucho a very good friend and
an inspiration. Cesra Casella the first chef I ever emulated.
I don't say I won't say emulated, but like respected
and sought sought his you know, like I guess wisdom
(45:01):
or whatever. We went to Genoa. We we worked with
the consortiums for Dico UH, for Focat Genovese and for
Pesto al motaio so motia so me, and we worked
with them. We we we learned, we practiced, and we
got certified by the Mayor of Genoa as the official
(45:23):
taste Ambassadors and Masters of fat Genovesa, which anybody knows me,
I hate masters and kings and gods of food or anything,
but yeah, I got the I had the experience. I
have a you know, it's something that you know, I
don't even have on my Instagram profile anymore because it's
kind of hard to explain in that sense, but it's yeah.
I mean, hopefully one day we'll revisit it and do
(45:45):
the things we plan to do with it here and
there for the city of Genoa and for those things
far from Genovese. Have none of it in my blood,
but uh, you know, it was me, a Talian American
kid going with two easy Italian Pete Tyler chef and
getting that opportunity and yeah, so yeah, I can.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Tell you it's amazing. Well, keep up the great work,
have a great time on vacation. I'll come up and
visit you and bring you up productor bread and check
out the oven and everything.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
That's awesome, and I look forward. Thank you. It's an
honor to do this and any chance I get to
talk to somebody on the on the on the level
about what I love, it's it means a lot to me.
So I thank you for doing this and being here
makes it super special for me because that's where my
this is where my uh my career is right now.
Whether I'm here physically or or not, that's what.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
It's all about.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Thank you, Rob,
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